Editing Lion El'Jonson (section)

====30k The Lion vs Other 30K Primarchs: Heresy 1.0====
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Based on current Rules; updated when full rules are released.
Primarch fighting, while fun to see, isn't a very competitive thing to do as it'll usually tie up both Primarchs for the entire game without either of them dying. With that in mind this section is all about how The Lion fares against other Primarchs mathhammer wise. Please note that all the various melee abilities are taken into account. (The Blinding rule on overwatch is situational dependent on who charges and actually scoring a hit, which is seldom factored in to these duels) and the match-ups assume the Primarchs are the only ones involved in the fighting, so various abilities like Angron's "The Butcher's Nails" and Rampage do not provide any bonuses.
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*NOTE: The math is finicky here. Sometimes the numbers rack up to e.g. 4.028-4.2 wounds left, and can be debated if it should trigger the Lion's Choler. This affects only one round before the Lion solidly crosses the threshold, and adding the extra attacks doesn't seem to change the outcome of the matches so far.
*Hit and Run hasn't been factored in, because the Lion has the potential to drop his opponent to I1 for two phases of combat depending on who started the game, making multiple escapes unlikely.
**The Lion's overwatch is actually pretty decent and has a fair chance (depending on number of shots) of dropping opponent to WS1 for up to three combat phases, which is huge. Ending up wrecking the maths.

* The Lion VS Horus
**Horus hits 3 times (Talon), wounds 2.667 times, 1.083 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.75 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Horus (1 Strike): hits 4 times, wounds 3.556 times, 1.528 after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.194 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion hits 2.5 (Wolf Blade)/3 (Lion Sword) times, wounds 2.43/2.5 times, 0.81/0.833 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.477/0.5 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (4 wounds): hits 3/3.5 times, wounds 2.667/2.917 times, 0.972 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.639 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (2 wounds): hits 3.5/4 times, wounds 3.403/3.333 times, 1.134/1.111 after saves and IWND will take that to 0.801/0.778 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Horus wins.
**This doesn't factor in Disabling Strike dropping Wolf Blade to S7 after 3 strikes, or Sire of the SoH giving Horus d3 attacks after 4 strikes; even when the Lion starts getting his full 7 attack's, Horus is throwing out 7- 9 attack's, there really isn't anything the Lion can do here.
**That 3+ INV save really makes all the difference. Even after gaining attacks, not enough damage is getting through to allow the Lion to catch up.
**Horus simply outclasses the Lion both in offensive output and defensive capabilities. The Lion's abilities really count for nothing here, Horus simply needs to wound him four times with the talon, to get the D3 extra attacks, and then pummel him with his mace.
**Horus has a 3+ save against anything that affects his profile, so he is unlikely to be affected by Stasis, and therefore even less likely to fail a blind test if he's hit by Overwatch.

* The Lion VS Angron
**Angron (Round 1): hits 5.333 times, wounds 4.444 times, 1.972 after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.639 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Angron (Round 2): hits 4 times, wounds 3.333 times, 1.417 after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.083 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion hits 2.5 (Wolf Blade)/3 (Lion Sword) times, wounds 2.43/2.5 times, 0.81/0.833 after saves and FNP, and IWND will take that down to 0.477/0.5 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (4 wounds): hits 3/3.5 times, wounds 2.667/2.917 times, 0.972 after saves and FNP, and IWND will take that down to 0.639 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (2 wounds): hits 3.5/4 times, wounds 3.403/3.333 times, 1.134/1.111 after saves and FNP, and IWND will take that to 0.801/0.778 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Angron wins.
**Nothing really complicated here, Angron simply throws out a lot more damage then the Lion.
**Even blinded, Angron with Hatred can pump out more damage on the charge than some other brothers do with clear vision! ''(1.37 unsaved wounds based on 7 rerollable attacks)'' Though it does hurt him in the subsequent rounds while he recovers. However the Lion struggles to claim a lead due to Angron's FNP, resulting in a mutual kill by the fifth round of combat.

* The Lion VS Fulgrim
**Fulgrim (Initiative 1 for up to two rounds) hits 3 times (Fireblade), wounds 2.333 times (Child of Terra), 0.916 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.583 at the start of the next turn.
**Fulgrim (round 2/3 onward) hits 3.5 times (Fireblade), wounds 2.722 times (Child of Terra), 1.111 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.778 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion hits 2.5 (Wolf Blade)/3 (Lion Sword) times, wounds 2.43/2.5 times, 0.81/0.833 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.477/0.5 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (4 wounds): hits 3/3.5 times, wounds 2.917 times, 0.972 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.639 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (2 wounds): hits 3.5/4 times, wounds 3.403/3.333 times, 1.134/1.111 after saves and IWND will take that to 0.801/0.778 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Fulgrim wins
**The combination of that 3+ Inv save, higher initiative and number of attacks gives Fulgrim the advantage so long as he keeps it. Under Stasis, Fulgrim puts out marginally more than the Lion, but not a whole lot. However there are about two rounds of combat where Fulgrim will always do better no matter what happens and set himself up for the win before the Lion builds up his own steam. The best the Lion can hope for is to be charged and have a fair chance of blinding Fulgrim for that first bout and getting a good lead before he recovers.

* The Lion VS Mortarion
**Mortarion hits 2.5 times, wounds 1.667 times, 0.583 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.25 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion hits 3.333 times (Wolf Blade), wounds 3.241 times, 1.62 after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.065 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (4 wounds): hits 4 times, wounds 3.889 times, 1.944 after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.389 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (2 wounds): hits 4.667 times, wounds 4.537 times, 2.269 after saves and IWND will take that to 1.713 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion wins.
**Mortarion makes the Lion Sword only wound on 6s. Even if Strength can be used, Mortarion will win against the Lion Sword.

* The Lion VS Ferrus
**Ferrus hits 2.5 times, wounds 2.083 times, 0.792 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.458 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion hits 3.333 (Wolf Blade) / 4 (Lion Sword) times, wounds 3.241/3.333 times, 1.08/1.111 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.747/0.778 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (4 wounds): hits 4/4.667 times, wounds 3.889 times, 1.297 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.962 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (2 wounds): hits 4.667/5.333 times, wounds 4.537/4.444 times, 1.512/1.481 after saves and IWND will take that to 1.179/1.148 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion wins.

* The Lion VS Konrad Curze
**Curze hits 3 times, wounds 2.25 times, 0.875 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.542 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion hits 2.5 (Wolf Blade)/3 (Lion Sword) times, wounds 2.43/2.5 times, 1.215/1.25 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.882/0.917 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (4 wounds): hits 3/3.5 times, wounds 2.917 times, 1.458 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.125 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (2 wounds): hits 3.5/4 times, wounds 3.403/3.333 times, 1.701/1.667 after saves and IWND will take that to 1.368/1.333 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion wins.

* The Lion VS Vulkan
**Vulkan hits 2 times, wounds 1.667 times, 0.583 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.25 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion hits 3.333 (Wolf Blade) / 4 (Lion Sword) times, wounds 3.241/3.333 times, 1.08/1.111 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.525/0.556 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (4 wounds): hits 4/4.667 times, wounds 3.889 times, 1.297 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.741 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (2 wounds): hits 4.667/5.333 times, wounds 4.537/4.444 times, 1.512/1.481 after saves and IWND will take that to 0.957/0.926 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion wins.

* The Lion VS Lorgar 
**Lorgar hits 3 times, wounds 2.5 times, 1 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.667 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (Round 1): hits 3.333 (Wolf Blade) / 4 (Lion Sword) times, wounds 3.241/3.333 times, 1.08/1.111 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.747/0.778 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion hits 3.333 (Wolf Blade) / 4 (Lion Sword) times, wounds 3.241/3.333 times, 1.62/1.667 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.287/1.333 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (4 wounds): hits 4/4.667 times, wounds 3.889 times, 1.944 after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.611 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (2 wounds): hits 4.667/5.333 times, wounds 4.537/4.444 times, 2.269/2.222 after saves and IWND will take that to 1.935/1.889 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion wins.
**As usual, psychic powers not included.

* The Lion VS Perturabo
**Perturabo hits 2 times, wounds 1.667 times (Forgebreaker), 0.483 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.25 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Perturabo (Lion Blinded): hits 2.667 times, wounds 2.222 times, 0.861 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.528 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion hits 2.5 (Wolf Blade)/3 (Lion Sword) times, wounds 2.43/2.5 times, 0.81/0.833 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.477/0.5 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (4 wounds): hits 3/3.5 times, wounds 2.917 times, 0.972 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.639 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (2 wounds): hits 3.5/4 times, wounds 3.403/3.333 times, 1.134/1.111 after saves and IWND will take that to 0.801/0.778 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion wins.

* The Lion VS Alpharius
**Alpharius hits 2.917 times, wounds 1.701 times, 0.6 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.267 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion hits 3.333 (Wolf Blade) / 4 (Lion Sword) times, wounds 3.241/2 times (Alpharius is immune to Fleshbane), 1.62/1 after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.287/0.677 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (4 wounds): hits 4/4.667 times, wounds 3.889/2.333 times, 1.944/1.167 after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.611/0.833 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (2 wounds): hits 4.667/5.333 times, wounds 4.537/2.667 times, 2.269/1.333 after saves and IWND will take that to 1.935/1 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion wins.

* The Lion VS Rogal Dorn
**Dorn hits 2 times, wounds 1.5 times, 0.5 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.167 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion hits 2.5 (Wolf Blade)/3 (Lion Sword) times, wounds 2.222/2 times (Auric Armour supercedes Fleshbane), 1.111/1 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.778/0.667 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (4 wounds): hits 3/3.5 times, wounds 2.667/2.333 times, 1.333/1.167 after saves and IWND will take that down to 1/0.833 wound at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (2 wounds): hits 3.5/4 times, wounds 3.111/2.667 times, 1.555/1.333 after saves and IWND will take that to 1.222/1 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion wins.

* The Lion VS Corvus Corax
**Only showing the Wolf Blade, because as you can see the difference is marginal.
**Corax hits 4 (Scourge)/3 (Shadow-walk) times, wounds 3/2.25 times, 1.25/0.875 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.917/0.542 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion hits 3.333 (Scourge)/2.5 times (Shadow-walk), wounds 3.241/2.431 times, 2.16/1.62 after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.827/1.287 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (4 wounds): hits 4/3 times, wounds 3.889/2.917 times, 2.593/1.944 after saves and IWND will take that down to 2.259/1.611 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (2 wounds): hits 4.667/3.5 times, wounds 4.537/3.402 times, 3.025/2.269 after saves and IWND will take that to 2.691/1.935 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion wins, especially if Corax H&Rs, since it exposes Corax to more stasis and blinding overwatch.

* The Lion vs. Leman Russ
**Russ hits 4.667 times (Axe), wounds 3.889 times, 1.694 after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.361 at the start of the next turn.
**Lion hits 2.5 (Wolf Blade)/3 (Lion Sword) times, wounds 2.43/2.5 times, 1.215/1.25 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.882/0.917 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (4 wounds): hits 3/3.5 times, wounds 2.917 times, 1.458 after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.125 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (2 wounds): hits 3.5/4 times, wounds 3.403/3.333 times, 1.701/1.667 after saves and IWND will take that to 1.368/1.333 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Russ wins.  But normally Russ beats his brothers bloody with their own torn off arms; the Lion makes him work for it.
**The Armour of Elavagar means the Lion hits on 4+ even if Russ is blinded. However it will drop Russ' combat output by around half (hitting 2.333 times/2.666 on the charge). If Russ gets blinded on overwatch (not counting the actual S7 AP2 hit itself) the Lion will have the Wolf King beaten on the fifth round of combat after his first attack upgrade but before Russ' IWND applies at the end of his own turn. Any other situation results in a win for Russ.

* The Lion VS Jaghatai Khan
**Khan hits 4 times, wounds 2 times, 0.75 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.417 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion hits 3.333 (Wolf Blade) / 4 (Lion Sword) times, wounds 3.241/3.333 times, 1.08/1.111 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.747/0.778 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (4 wounds): hits 4/4.667 times, wounds 3.889 times, 1.297 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.962 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (2 wounds): hits 4.667/5.333 times, wounds 4.537/4.444 times, 1.512/1.481 after saves and IWND will take that to 1.179/1.148 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion wins.

* The Lion VS Roboute Guilliman
**Guilliman (Round 1): hits 2.5 times, wounds 2.222 (Gladius)/2.083 (Hand) times, 0.861/0.792 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.528/0.458 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Guilliman (Round 3+): hits 3.33 times, wounds 2.963/2.778 times, 1.231/1.139 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.898/0.806 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (Round 1): hits 3.333 (Wolf Blade)/4 (Lion Sword) times, wounds 3.241/3.333 times, 1.37/1.417 after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.037/1.083 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (Round 2): hits 2.5 (Wolf Blade)/3 (Lion Sword) times, wounds 2.431/2.5 times, 0.965/1 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.632/0.667 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (4 wounds): hits 3/3.5 times, wounds 2.917 times, 1.208 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.875 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (2 wounds): hits 3.5/4 times, wounds 3.403/3.333 times, 1.451/1.417 after saves and IWND will take that to 1.118/1.083 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion wins.

*The Lion VS Sanguinius
**A little preface for this one, it's actually better for Sanguinius to be charged by the Lion than to charge him because it makes it extremely unlikely for him to become Blind.
**Sanguinius (Round 1 without charging): hits 4.666 times (Blade), wounds 4.148 times, 1.824 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.491 wounds at the start of the next turn.
***Sanguinius on the charge (if he passed his blind check) hits 5.333 times, wounds 5.574 times (including HoW), 2.638 wounds after saves and IWND will take that down to 2.204 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Sanguinius (Round 2 onwards): hits 4 times (Blade), wounds 3.555 times, 1.528 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.195 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (5-6 Wounds) hits 2.5 (Wolf Blade)/2.75 (Lion Sword) times, wounds 2.43/2.291 times, 1.215/1.145 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.882/0.812 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (3-4 Wounds, also round 1) hits 3 (Wolf Blade)/3.25 (Lion Sword) times, wounds 2.916/2.708 times, 1.458/1.354 after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.125/1.021 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (1-2 Wounds) hits 3.5 (Wolf Blade)/3.75 (Lion Sword) times, wounds 3.402/3.125 times, 1.701/1.562 after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.368/1.229 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Sanguinius wins. If he gets charged by the Lion he still wins. Though the reality is that Sanguinius only has one-shot ranged weapons. So the Lion can just stand and shoot his brother until Sanguinius is forced to charge and risk being blinded until the end of his next turn (three phases) and losing.

* The Lion VS Magnus
**Magnus hits 2 times, wounds 1.667 times (Forgebreaker), 0.483 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.25 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion hits 2.5 (Wolf Blade)/3 (Lion Sword) times, wounds 2.43/2.5 times, 1.215/1.25 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.882/0.917 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (4 wounds): hits 3/3.5 times, wounds 2.917 times, 1.458 after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.125 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion (2 wounds): hits 3.5/4 times, wounds 3.403/3.333 times, 1.701/1.667 after saves and IWND will take that to 1.368/1.333 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lion wins.
**Psychic shenanigans: The Lion fights well against Iron Arm/Warp Speed Magnus, as he wounds on 2+/rerollable 3+ on a decent number of attacks. IA/WS Magnus should win because of higher initiative, but the Lion has a chance of winning one turn earlier (5.778 wounds). However, Magnus with Warp Speed and Endurance beats the Lion, due to the Lion's current lack of Instant Death.

At this point the Lion looks fairly solid, although he still can't compete against Horus, or Sanguinius, who are still sitting pretty at the top; and Fulgrim or Russ only if he resorts to overwatch trickery. Even with his rules seemingly tailored to counter their combat boosting abilities, he just can't manage to pull it off mano-e-mano; shame. His average number of attacks and defence really keep him from challenging the big boys, but he will still put up a decent performance against the less combat focused Primarchs.

Ultimately the Lion's melee rules don't actually make him a better combatant, They are more about limiting any negative effects to his combat effectiveness, so anyone who has a similar base status to the Lion, but also abilities that boost them are going to really give him a hard time of it. The combo of more attack and a better INV save is almost always going to provide a win against the Lion.

The Fusil Actinaeus is a bit of a wildcard: If he can blind his opponent it will seriously drop the output of his opponent and even boost the Lion's own for several turns. He only gets one attempt at a overwatch and gambling a whole combat on it is risky, but ultimately it is better for the Lion to be charged by anything he can't kill in one turn, and reserve his own charge for targets he knows he can kill without resorting to tricks.

When it comes down to simple combat the Lion is a very solid option overall, his Sire of the Legion rule is pretty average, and he doesn't do anything interesting with the army selection like several other Primarchs do. He ends up being very costly for what he brings to the table; if you want something to just run in and hit things you might be better off taking a Deathstar squad.

In that note: If you can field him in an army with Marduk Sedras, then he can be put in a unit with Preferred Enemy ''(he is unable to claim the rule personally, but can benefit from an attached squad with it)'' and effectively be made unable to fail hit or wound rolls.


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