Horus Vs Abaddon

Now, there is much hatred directed against Abaddon on this wiki, but now we shall show him vs Horus in a one on one duel to the death. To make it fair, we are going to use Abaddon should he ever arrive at Terra: hyped up on Chaos power.

Maxed out Abaddon vs Maxed out Horus

To make things fair (and reduce the 240pts gap between Horus and Abaddon) we will be granting Abaddon every single attribute on the Chaos Boon table, as well as assuming that whoever was using him as not a dolt who stuck Fleshbane on the Talon of Horus. This gives him the single most powerful melee weapon in 40K (Drach'Nyen- +D6A, AP2, Fleshbane, Instant Death, Shred, +1S, Poisoned). Also, as they are evenly matched (As seen below) we will be comparing bodyguards.

Maxed out Abaddon

WS8, BS6, S5, T6, W5, I7, A5, Ld10, 2+ re-rollable armour save, 4+ Invulnerable Save

• Talon of Horus - Sx2, AP3, Shred, Poisoned, Instant Death,
  • Ranged - 24" S5 Ap5 Rapid Fire, Twin Linked
• Drach'Nyen - S+1, Ap2, Daemon Weapon, Fleshbane, Shred, Instant Death, Poisoned

• Abaddon has Eternal Warrior, Feel No Pain, Rage, Counter attack, Fleet, Shrouded, Hammer of Wrath, Crusader, Hatred (All), Preferred enemy (Space Marines), Fearless, Stubborn, Adamantium Will; as well as the additional rules of Witch Eater and Icy Aura.

Maxed out Horus

WS8, BS5, S7, T6, W6, I6, A5, Ld10, 2+ Armour save, 3+ Invulnerable save, 3+ Save vs affects that would modify characteristics adversely.

• Worldbreaker - S10, AP2, Master Crafted, Concussion, Unwieldly
• The Talon - S user, AP2, Shred, Disabling strike (Any model wounded but not slain -1WS and -1S)
  • Ranged - 24" S5 AP3 Assault 3 twin linked weapon

• Horus has Eternal Warrior, Fear, Adamantium will, Fleet, Fearless, It Will Not Die, Master of the Legion, Weapon Mastery (allowing him to split attacks freely between weapons)

Crunch

Assuming both are in a stand-up fight, so no charges, no shooting beforehand, this is just a straight-up mathhammer showdown:

• Abaddon's Round 1: 9.5 attacks (5 base, +1 for two specialist weapons, +3.5 from his sword), hitting 7.125 times, causing 6.927 wounds, 2.309 going through Horus's Invulnerable save, 1.976 after IWND.

Abaddon's Round 2+: 9.5 attacks (5 base, +1 for two specialist weapons, +3.5 from his sword), hitting 4.75 times, causing 4.618 wounds, 1.539 going through Horus's Invulnerable save, 1.206 after IWND.

Special note, Abaddon will not ever need a 5+ to hit Horus as he will be dead before his Weapon Skill drops to 3, and he always wounds on a re-rollable 2+ so that won't matter either.

• Horus (Worldbreaker): 6 attacks (5 base, +1 for two CC weapons), hitting 3.5 times (thanks to Master-Crafted), causing 2.917 wounds, 1.458 going through Abaddon's invulnerable save, 0.972 going through Abbadon's Feel No Pain.

Horus (Worldbreaker, after causing one wound with The Talon): 6 attacks, hitting 4.5 times, causing 3.75 wounds, 1.875 going through Abbadon's Invulnerable save, 1.25 going through Abbadon's Feel No Pain save.

• Horus (The Talon): 6 attacks, hitting 3 times, causing 2.666 wounds, 1.333 going through Abaddon's invuln save, 0.888 wounds after Abaddon's Feel No Pain.

Horus (The Talon, after causing one wound with The Talon): 6 attacks, hitting 4 times, causing 3.555 wounds, 1.777 going through Abaddon's Invuln save, 1.184 wounds after Abaddon's Feel No Pain save.

• So for the match:
  • Round 1: Abaddon strikes first and causes 2.309 wounds, Horus retaliates with The Talon causing 0.888 wounds, because even though he can do more damage with Worldbreaker dropping Abaddon's Weapon Skill is more important (though that won't happen yet).
  • Round 2: Abaddon strikes first and causes 1.206 wounds (for a total of 3.515 wounds), Horus retaliates with The Talon (1 attack) and Worldbreaker (5 attacks), causing 0.148 wounds with The Talon (for a total of 1.036 wounds) and causing 0.833 wounds with Worldbreaker (for a total of 1.869 wounds). Abaddon's Weapon Skill has now dropped by 1 and from this point forward Horus gains no benefit from The Talon.
  • Round 3: Abaddon strikes first and causes 1.539 wounds (for a total of 5.054 wounds), Horus retaliates with Worldbreaker for 1.25 wounds (for a total of 3.119 wounds), Abaddon is now concussed.
  • Round 4: Abaddon and Horus hit each other at the same time, Abaddon causing 1.206 wounds (for a total of 6.26 wounds), Horus causing 1.25 wounds (for a total of 4.369 wounds).
    • Outcome: Abaddon wins in 4 rounds of combat, though just barely and on his last wound. Attacking first with The Talon then switching weapons is the most efficient way for Horus to cause wounds on Abaddon but in the end it does not help him win the fight.

• The demon weapon rule is the real MVP here, contributing no less than 14 attacks across 4 rounds of combat, about a third of Abaddon's damage. If Horus had nine attacks he'd do a lot more damage too but for the time being he doesn't. However if Abaddon rolls a single 1 he loses due to Horus being able to do a massive amount of damage while effectively receiving none.
• Of note is that basically none of Horus' combat tricks work here. The Talon is only useful in reducing stats once and as a result Worldbreaker's concussive rule won't help much either. Against other opponents Horus could make scary plays like concussing an enemy then striking first with his talon next turn to strip of several points of WS and S, or vice versa. These approaches would normally help him slow his opponents damage and give him a major edge but here it's mostly irrelevant
• Do note that this does make a fully powered up Abaddon a more effective melee beatstick than the most powerful of the Primarchs- although in this regard he is similar to Angron, in that he doesn't really give his men any advantages other than the truly ridiculous pile of corpses behind him

Bodyguards vs Bodyguards

Abaddon has the Bringers of Despair:

WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld10. 2+ Armour, 4+ Invulnerable (with MoT) Equipped with Combi Weapon and Chainfist They have Fearless (with Icon of Vengeance), Hatred (Space Marines). Traitor Legions supplement grants Abs one Look Out, Sir! re-roll if he is joined to Bringers of Despair.

Horus has the Justaerin:

WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld9 2+ Armour, 4+ Invulnerable Equipped with Combi Weapon and Chainfist Stubborn, Furious Charge, Slow and Purposeful.

Both attack at the same time. Both hit on 4+, both wound on 2+, giving an average of one wound each, which is saved on a 4+. By round two they will kill each other

I am giving this to the Bringers of Despair, as they would last longer with Fearless than with stubborn, can move faster, and cost fewer points. However, the Justaerin can have a multi melta, and become BS5 shooting within 12" range, and if Horus is on the field he boosts them up to BS6 and Ld10.

Conclusion

So, all in all, a fully powered up Abaddon and bodyguards vs Horus + bodyguards would be a rough win in Abaddon's favour, mind you, If we included the shooting phase with all the various available weapons it could all be very different.

Also of note, a vanilla Abaddon with either his Horus Heresy rules or his 7th edition 40k rules stands no chance against Horus, being swatted aside like a fly, with Horus ripping Abaddon to shreds with the talon or taking marginally longer to beat him to death with Worldbreaker (or more realistically splitting his attacks between both) and Abaddon basically being unable to so much as touch Horus through his impressive array of defences. Either Abaddon could try his sword and bounce off of Horus' toughness, invulnerable save, and IWND and quickly get pulped when Horus cripples his WS and strength (assuming that Abaddon is even alive by the end of Horus' assault phase) or try his Talon and bounce off his armour save and take a little longer for disabling strike to make him unable to hurt Horus at all. First Captain Abaddon is so hilariously outclassed that he probably shouldn't bother even showing up, with only his power fist having any chance of causing any damage to Horus at all, even assuming that Abaddon survives to hit back.

Parallel to that, you could almost have two of either version of him points wise or even both HH Abaddon and 40k Abaddon teaming up through some weird time travel shit to fight Horus and in both cases; Horus still wins easily with the extra Abaddons just taking more of Horus' time. Mathematically, disabling strike basically completely kills Abaddon's offensive capabilities in a single phase as taking even a single wound from the claw means Abaddon can only wound on sixes with Drach'Nyen or on fours with the talon/power fist and is only hitting Horus on fives while Horus hits on threes.

A shooting match also generally goes to Horus, although it will be a long fight as neither of them have the AP to get past each other's armor saves, Horus' bolter is twinlinked assault 3 and S5 while Abaddon's bolter is at best twin linked rapid fire 1 with S5; making Horus simply more able to put on wounds on Abaddon than the other way around while Horus has IWND to remove whatever wounds he does take and Abaddon has no way to heal himself. Especially since Horus can pretty much indefinitely keep Abaddon out of rapid fire range by simply walking. After a long, long, long shooting match that probably looks like two tanks trying to kill each other with their machine guns instead of just firing their main guns, Horus eventually guns Abaddon down. Horus could in fact, defeat both Abaddons in a shooting match and probably come out of it with all of his wounds.

In a rather odd note, Horus' version of the Talon is simply flatly superior to Abaddon's in every way even though the fluff has stated that the Talon became more powerful after being anointed in the blood of Sanguinius and the Emperor. It has far nastier consequences for those wounded by it than Abaddon's talon through its ability to cripple an opponent's WS and Strength scores; obliterating the offensive capabilities of most opponents and making it easier for Horus to hit them, and it's also AP2. Meanwhile Abaddon's Talon is basically just an AP3 power fist with shred that strikes at initiative with no special effects beyond that. Abaddon also must have lost Horus' guns because instead of basically having a twin linked Assault 3 heavy bolter on his arm, Abaddon just has a regular ass combi-bolter. Seems like Abaddon hasn't taken very good care of his dad's weapon over the last ten thousand years.

One further note is that this assumes that the rules for Horus represent his Final Form; Forgeworld have stated that some primarchs will be getting different rules as the Horus Heresy series goes on, we've seen this already for Lorgar (transfigured), Corvus Corax (after Isstvan) and Perturabo (with Hammer). We know from the book series that Horus goes to Molech to get a level-up from the four Chaos Gods which at the very least might be represented by the Mark of Chaos Ascendant which Abaddon has, though funnily enough Horus having all four marks wouldn't change the outcome of the fight at all, Khorne and Tzeentch marks would not come into play (nobody is charging and Horus already has a 3+ save), Nurgle does not help against Fleshbane, and striking at the same Initiative as Abaddon the entire fight would not help Horus at all. But of course, we all know that's definitely not the route they're going to go given that regular Primarchs stand no chance against the Emperor and such a small upgrade as the mark isn't going to cut this particular mustard.

Anyway, when Horus gets back from Molech it's most likely that a fully powered up Abaddon wouldn't stand a chance, as this is supposed to make him equal to the Emperor himself. The likely result is that Abaddon gets demolished without Horus having to even touch him through the power of Horus' awakened sorcerous/psychic abilities, much like how even this uber-wanked Abaddon would get nuked off the board in seconds by Magnus with any witchfire abilities at all.

If you're wondering, Chaos Ascendant Horus vs vanilla Abaddon is a sad joke of a fight. After taking just two wounds from the Talon, Abaddon is taken down to hitting at S3 with Drach'nyen and is thus completely unable to hurt Horus.

In the Fluff

It actually happened. Kind of. That time when Abby assaulted our favorite FABULOUS space Dr. Mengele to stop him from cloning Horus, he was a bit too late. Bile actually made a stable clone of the Warmaster, complete with his armour, Worldbreaker and a large part of his former incarnation's memory somehow implanted into him. But did Abby bow to his poppa reborn? Fuck no! He took his Talon, and proceeded to kick the ever living shit out the Horus 2.0, which culminated in him breaking the Worldbreaker and subsequently tearing the clone apart.

What a douche.

It's worth noting though that while Fabius Bile could recreate the flesh of a Primarch; he has no ability to recreate the soul of one, which is the actual hard part of making a Primarch. The Emperor had to steal something precious to the Chaos Gods to create the souls of his sons, making them more than just perfected flesh but actual demigods. Quite a lot of Primarch abilities are after all, confirmed to not be simply from their bodies but from their latent psychic abilities. Without that soul, a cloned primarch is incomplete and probably not even half as powerful as it should be; in essence being a faster human Carnifex with implanted memories.