T-80: Difference between revisions
1d4chan>A crazy russian |
m (53 revisions imported) |
||
(40 intermediate revisions by 21 users not shown) | |||
Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
[[File: | [[File:TYBX02-03.jpg|300px|right|thumb|'Honour and Glory' - motto, 4th Guards Tank Division]] | ||
{{topquote|The instrument of doom.|Apocalypse Tank, Red Alert 2 }} | {{topquote|The instrument of doom.|Apocalypse Tank, Red Alert 2 }} | ||
The Soviet version of the Bradley's horrible beauracratic design process, the T-80 series was the Soviet's answer to the third generation of Western main battle tanks like the Leopard 2, Challenger and the Abrams. Building on the principle of the T-64 as the premium battle tank of the Soviet shock armies, the T-80 would become defined for its horribly inconsistent gas turbine engine and unreliability while on the move. | The Soviet version of the Bradley's horrible beauracratic design process, the T-80 series was the Soviet's answer to the third generation of Western main battle tanks like the Leopard 2, Challenger and the Abrams. Building on the principle of the T-64 as the premium battle tank of the Soviet shock armies, the T-80 would become defined for its horribly inconsistent gas turbine engine and unreliability while on the move. | ||
==In Team Yankee== | ==In Team Yankee== | ||
[[File:DE7DA872-887D-4557-9995-2C1EB19C5B66.jpg|thumb|left|300px]] <ref> https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=7057</ref> | |||
The T-80 represents the cream of the crop, the best that the USSR has to offer, and boy is it... one of the tanks ever in the game. | |||
Battlefront chose the T-80U. This model sported the famous 'Kontakt-5' reactive armor package, and image intensification sights in addition to all the classic Russian tank features you know and love. The T-80 is a much closer match to the likes of the Abrams and Leopard, both in points and performance. It comes with some incredibly powerful hard stats: armor 20/10/2; an AT 22, brutal cannon; and a 14" tactical speed with its advanced stabilizer. Where you should be getting suspicious is the price: 7.33-8.8 points each, due to a few important weaknesses we'll discuss below. | |||
The most outstanding feature of this tank is by far its sheer armor protection. For an 8 point tank, armor 20 is nothing to scoff at: by comparison, NATO is paying 11 points for the same levels of protection and that's on a hull that is significantly less mobile. Not only that, but its the first tank in the game with ERA, giving it effectively Chobham protection and making you a far more potent assault tank compared to your lesser Soviet peers. Before you start yelling "Russian bias" or get a raging, stalinium reinforced hard-on, there is a catch; one that Soviet players are more than aware of by now: 3+ to hit. "What does being hit matter if the capitalist swine can't even penetrate my armor?" I hear you ask. And to that we reply "They can't penetrate your FRONT armor, tovarisch..." | |||
[[File:Tank-Drift.gif|right|14" move has no drawback at all.]] | |||
The second important feature is this tanks sheer mobility. It is one of 2 tanks in the Soviet arsenal with a 14" move and absolutely outstanding dash speeds. The problem is... nothing, actually, there really isn't a catch here. You have a 2+ cross, letting you get through any terrain you need, and that's something not even your mediocre skill can screw up (see right). This mobility will be a great tool for protecting your tanks and letting you keep your armor toward the enemy. | |||
The last, probably least interesting stat on these tanks is the firepower. Once again, we have the classic 125mm 2A46 cannon with AT22, firepower 2+, and brutal. This is a justly feared weapon, capable of facing all but the most advanced NATO tanks pretty well. There are 2 major Achilles heels though, both of which Soviet players will be well aware of: 32" range and RoF 1. To help combat the first weakness, we have the AT-11 "Sniper" missile. This bumps your range to 48", and unlike other tanks with such missiles, it maintains AT 22 to help overcome its loss in firepower. Not only that, but its stabilized and can be fired while moving 14". What's the catch? '''It's a point per tank''' On a regular, 6x4' table, this just isn't worth it, as your mobility and armor let you get within gun range rather fine and +1 AT (only at range) rarely is a decisive difference when you're sacrificing recon, artillery, or infantry to get it. No, 32" range isn't a massive crutch, but RoF 1 is crippling, and what ultimately defines the conditions where you deploy this tank. This may seem odd, since it's fine for other Soviet tanks, but those tanks don't cost as much as an Abrams! For 8 points, you are fielding a relatively expensive tank: A NATO player spamming Leo 1s will easily have 2-3 tanks to your 1, which are harder to hit and only marginally less mobile. For the cost of 2 of these tanks (total of 2 shots), you could have 10 T-55s, which can pump out 5x the firepower. | |||
''side note: notice that we never mentioned the Tandem Warhead feature of the missile. This is because it's that important (It can only be used against fellow PACT tanks for now and is practically useless when it just negates their 6+ save anyway.)'' | |||
All this combines to put this tank in a relatively interesting predicament: for the price, you get great protection and mobility, but firepower that is far worse than it should be, not by quality, but quantity (ironically). This has important implications for both your list and the roles the T-80 does well. We'll start with the roles. | |||
The T-80 is probably the worst tank in the game for handling swarms of cheap tanks and IFVs, but its great armor and mobility for the price make it relatively potent for hunting more elite NATO tanks, from Chieftain up. Your armor lets you tank their AT22 shots rather well, and you cost around half the price of the most expensive of them while having similar or superior mobility, allowing you to chase them and flank them rather effectively, where you still have a severe numbers advantage. The other role the T-80 fills rather well is just...being a tank. Once again, the relatively large numbers of them you can bring with that level of armor lets them distract important enemy units and protect objectives better than many other units in your arsenal for the price. | |||
If you really must include T-80s for whatever reason, you need to have a plan. As we discussed, the T-80 is powerful in very specific rolls, but it is absolute trash in others, and your army needs to compensate for this. The real result of this is that, on top of the regular cost of the T-80, you have a phantom cost of the support assets and capabilities required to support them. The first weakness is your firepower: you will need something that can put out a lot more dakka than your T-80s can manage, and fortunately the Red Army has a few options: T-55AMs have AT21 ATGMS and cost a measly 1.8 points a tank max, there are 3 different flavors of BMP you can choose from, which come in large numbers with bonus infantry ''and'' pack ATGMs that can handle hoards rather effectively. The second is your weak flanks. Thanks to objectives and board edges, you can only pull back so far before the hoard catches up with you, and so you need to buy yourself time. Soviet infantry can set tarpits that prevent you from being flanked by bum-rushing M60s, and you have the cheapest recon in the game with the BRDM-2 to help block enemy spearheads and give you room to maneuver. Use these to create space and prevent enemy breakthroughs, then when your flanks are secure, push forward and punish the capitalist aggressors mercilessly! | |||
===T-80 Shock Company=== | |||
[[File:T-80.jpg|thumb|left|300px|Meet the Professionals]] | |||
Representing the best of the best the Soviet army has to offer, the T-80 Shock company is a very different beast from any formation yet seen by Soviet players. It gives the ability to field a small, elite formation as opposed to the massed parking lots so familiar to many. The astute may notice that it is designated as a formation rather than a unit, and this is not a typo. Consisting of an HQ and 2-3 platoons of 2-3 tanks each, it is comparable in size to NATO armoured formations, with all the support options that Soviet formations bring. Available support includes a Shock Motor Rifle company, a Shock BMP 3 scout platoon, a SPAAG platoon of either Shilkas or Tunguskas, a SAM platoon of Gaskins or Gophers, and a Carnation battery. It is noteworthy that the stats discussed below belong only to the tanks, infantry, and scouts: support units have the typical Soviet stat line. | |||
Anything with the “Shock” designation is hit on a 4+, has 3+ Skill, and one better Assault rating than is normal. Different units benefit to varying degrees from the boost to Assault and Skill, but the 4+ to hit is very solid for an army with a universal 3+. The T-80s themselves are still the same tank as the standard version, but now more difficult to hit and able to reliably shoot and scoot to avoid the worst of enemy return fire. | |||
The | The Shock T-80s take all of the problems and advantages of the regular T-80 to 11. For about 10 points per tank, you get West German levels of training and morale with the same silly armor and mobility of the T-80. The problem is that now you're paying ''ten points'' for a single shot. These could be good as formation support in the same roles as the regular T-80s, but fielding the entire formation is very difficult in a 100 point game: 7 tanks (that's only 7 shots!) only gives you 32 points to field all of the necessary support elements mentioned above as well as the infantry, artillery, and recon that you'll need. Consider pairing them with BMP-1/2s to bump the level of firepower you have and bring infantry concurrently. You will be heavily outnumbered in most situations, and you'll need a solid amount of cheap AT to make up the difference against swarms, even more so than the regular T-80s. Because of the numerical disparity, you will have to play a far more subtle game than is typical for Soviets, and avoid casualties as much as possible. If NATO tactics using Russian equipment are what you’re after, then this is the formation for you! As an added bonus, it can make playing Soviets mercifully cheap in real-life currency. | ||
==In Real Life== | ==In Real Life== | ||
Visually similar to the T-72, any Western commander who mistook it as such would be in for a shock: the T-80 was a frighteningly deadly weapon, combining the 125mm cannon with BDD armour superior to the T-64's, reactive armour blocks and the latest tank-killing shells the Soviet Union had to offer. Later versions like the T-80B would even have the ability to fire Kobra missiles, allowing it to outrange the latest Western tanks of the time. | [[File:1280px-4thTankBrigade - T-80U -33.jpg|300px|right|thumb|Soviet Power Supreme]] | ||
[[File:Tank training of Ukrainian Air Assault, December 2018, 03.jpg|300px|right|thumb|Ukrainian Airborne Forces Rockin the T-80]] | |||
Visually similar to the T-72, any Western commander who mistook it as such would be in for a shock: the T-80 was a frighteningly deadly weapon, combining the 125mm cannon with BDD armour superior to the T-64's, reactive armour blocks and the latest tank-killing shells the Soviet Union had to offer. Later versions like the T-80B would even have the ability to fire Kobra missiles, allowing it to outrange the latest Western tanks of the time. As of 1985, T-80U was arguably the best tank around: heavy ERA "Kontakt-5" made it pretty much immune to anything Westerners could reasonably throw at it, while newest munitions had a good chance of penetrating both Leopard-2 and M1A1 Abrams. | |||
Unfortunately, gas turbine engines tend to require a lot of fuel to sustain. The US was able to sustain having those engines in their Abrams due to having ALL THE OIL, but Russia and its dead-in-the-water economy could not. Due to the increased costs of feeding and maintaining said engine, the | Unfortunately, gas turbine engines tend to require a lot of fuel to sustain. The US was able to sustain having those engines in their Abrams due to having ALL THE OIL, but Russia and its dead-in-the-water economy could not. Due to the increased costs of feeding and maintaining said engine, the Russians made the diesel T80UD for its armed forces but eventually decided to stick with the T-72. Eventually the T-72 would evolve into T-72BU or the T-90: a T-72 with better armor, an improved engine, the advanced fire control systems and APS found within the T-80 turret, provisions for ERA and loads of other smaller upgrades that essentially make it an entirely new tank. | ||
Today, the T-80 remains the core of the Russian tank corps alongside heavily modernized T-72s. The T-80 might lack the reliability and fuel-economy of modern T-90 variants but can keep up with all but the absolute best armour of the | Today, the T-80 remains the core of the Russian tank corps alongside heavily modernized T-72s. The T-80 might lack the reliability and fuel-economy of modern T-90 variants, but the Modern Russian Federation has the petroleum infrastructure the Union lacked to feed these gas guzzling monsters and so these tanks can keep up with all but the absolute best armour of the West… but not Javelin ATGM’s, as seen in Ukraine. This may be just retardedness though, as Ukrainian T-80s/T-84s are kicking ass and taking names of a lot of T-72s. | ||
{{Soviet Forces in Team Yankee}} | {{Soviet Forces in Team Yankee}} | ||
[[Category:Vehicles]] | [[Category:Vehicles]] |
Latest revision as of 08:27, 23 June 2023
"The instrument of doom."
- – Apocalypse Tank, Red Alert 2
The Soviet version of the Bradley's horrible beauracratic design process, the T-80 series was the Soviet's answer to the third generation of Western main battle tanks like the Leopard 2, Challenger and the Abrams. Building on the principle of the T-64 as the premium battle tank of the Soviet shock armies, the T-80 would become defined for its horribly inconsistent gas turbine engine and unreliability while on the move.
In Team Yankee[edit]
The T-80 represents the cream of the crop, the best that the USSR has to offer, and boy is it... one of the tanks ever in the game. Battlefront chose the T-80U. This model sported the famous 'Kontakt-5' reactive armor package, and image intensification sights in addition to all the classic Russian tank features you know and love. The T-80 is a much closer match to the likes of the Abrams and Leopard, both in points and performance. It comes with some incredibly powerful hard stats: armor 20/10/2; an AT 22, brutal cannon; and a 14" tactical speed with its advanced stabilizer. Where you should be getting suspicious is the price: 7.33-8.8 points each, due to a few important weaknesses we'll discuss below.
The most outstanding feature of this tank is by far its sheer armor protection. For an 8 point tank, armor 20 is nothing to scoff at: by comparison, NATO is paying 11 points for the same levels of protection and that's on a hull that is significantly less mobile. Not only that, but its the first tank in the game with ERA, giving it effectively Chobham protection and making you a far more potent assault tank compared to your lesser Soviet peers. Before you start yelling "Russian bias" or get a raging, stalinium reinforced hard-on, there is a catch; one that Soviet players are more than aware of by now: 3+ to hit. "What does being hit matter if the capitalist swine can't even penetrate my armor?" I hear you ask. And to that we reply "They can't penetrate your FRONT armor, tovarisch..."
The second important feature is this tanks sheer mobility. It is one of 2 tanks in the Soviet arsenal with a 14" move and absolutely outstanding dash speeds. The problem is... nothing, actually, there really isn't a catch here. You have a 2+ cross, letting you get through any terrain you need, and that's something not even your mediocre skill can screw up (see right). This mobility will be a great tool for protecting your tanks and letting you keep your armor toward the enemy.
The last, probably least interesting stat on these tanks is the firepower. Once again, we have the classic 125mm 2A46 cannon with AT22, firepower 2+, and brutal. This is a justly feared weapon, capable of facing all but the most advanced NATO tanks pretty well. There are 2 major Achilles heels though, both of which Soviet players will be well aware of: 32" range and RoF 1. To help combat the first weakness, we have the AT-11 "Sniper" missile. This bumps your range to 48", and unlike other tanks with such missiles, it maintains AT 22 to help overcome its loss in firepower. Not only that, but its stabilized and can be fired while moving 14". What's the catch? It's a point per tank On a regular, 6x4' table, this just isn't worth it, as your mobility and armor let you get within gun range rather fine and +1 AT (only at range) rarely is a decisive difference when you're sacrificing recon, artillery, or infantry to get it. No, 32" range isn't a massive crutch, but RoF 1 is crippling, and what ultimately defines the conditions where you deploy this tank. This may seem odd, since it's fine for other Soviet tanks, but those tanks don't cost as much as an Abrams! For 8 points, you are fielding a relatively expensive tank: A NATO player spamming Leo 1s will easily have 2-3 tanks to your 1, which are harder to hit and only marginally less mobile. For the cost of 2 of these tanks (total of 2 shots), you could have 10 T-55s, which can pump out 5x the firepower.
side note: notice that we never mentioned the Tandem Warhead feature of the missile. This is because it's that important (It can only be used against fellow PACT tanks for now and is practically useless when it just negates their 6+ save anyway.)
All this combines to put this tank in a relatively interesting predicament: for the price, you get great protection and mobility, but firepower that is far worse than it should be, not by quality, but quantity (ironically). This has important implications for both your list and the roles the T-80 does well. We'll start with the roles.
The T-80 is probably the worst tank in the game for handling swarms of cheap tanks and IFVs, but its great armor and mobility for the price make it relatively potent for hunting more elite NATO tanks, from Chieftain up. Your armor lets you tank their AT22 shots rather well, and you cost around half the price of the most expensive of them while having similar or superior mobility, allowing you to chase them and flank them rather effectively, where you still have a severe numbers advantage. The other role the T-80 fills rather well is just...being a tank. Once again, the relatively large numbers of them you can bring with that level of armor lets them distract important enemy units and protect objectives better than many other units in your arsenal for the price.
If you really must include T-80s for whatever reason, you need to have a plan. As we discussed, the T-80 is powerful in very specific rolls, but it is absolute trash in others, and your army needs to compensate for this. The real result of this is that, on top of the regular cost of the T-80, you have a phantom cost of the support assets and capabilities required to support them. The first weakness is your firepower: you will need something that can put out a lot more dakka than your T-80s can manage, and fortunately the Red Army has a few options: T-55AMs have AT21 ATGMS and cost a measly 1.8 points a tank max, there are 3 different flavors of BMP you can choose from, which come in large numbers with bonus infantry and pack ATGMs that can handle hoards rather effectively. The second is your weak flanks. Thanks to objectives and board edges, you can only pull back so far before the hoard catches up with you, and so you need to buy yourself time. Soviet infantry can set tarpits that prevent you from being flanked by bum-rushing M60s, and you have the cheapest recon in the game with the BRDM-2 to help block enemy spearheads and give you room to maneuver. Use these to create space and prevent enemy breakthroughs, then when your flanks are secure, push forward and punish the capitalist aggressors mercilessly!
T-80 Shock Company[edit]
Representing the best of the best the Soviet army has to offer, the T-80 Shock company is a very different beast from any formation yet seen by Soviet players. It gives the ability to field a small, elite formation as opposed to the massed parking lots so familiar to many. The astute may notice that it is designated as a formation rather than a unit, and this is not a typo. Consisting of an HQ and 2-3 platoons of 2-3 tanks each, it is comparable in size to NATO armoured formations, with all the support options that Soviet formations bring. Available support includes a Shock Motor Rifle company, a Shock BMP 3 scout platoon, a SPAAG platoon of either Shilkas or Tunguskas, a SAM platoon of Gaskins or Gophers, and a Carnation battery. It is noteworthy that the stats discussed below belong only to the tanks, infantry, and scouts: support units have the typical Soviet stat line.
Anything with the “Shock” designation is hit on a 4+, has 3+ Skill, and one better Assault rating than is normal. Different units benefit to varying degrees from the boost to Assault and Skill, but the 4+ to hit is very solid for an army with a universal 3+. The T-80s themselves are still the same tank as the standard version, but now more difficult to hit and able to reliably shoot and scoot to avoid the worst of enemy return fire.
The Shock T-80s take all of the problems and advantages of the regular T-80 to 11. For about 10 points per tank, you get West German levels of training and morale with the same silly armor and mobility of the T-80. The problem is that now you're paying ten points for a single shot. These could be good as formation support in the same roles as the regular T-80s, but fielding the entire formation is very difficult in a 100 point game: 7 tanks (that's only 7 shots!) only gives you 32 points to field all of the necessary support elements mentioned above as well as the infantry, artillery, and recon that you'll need. Consider pairing them with BMP-1/2s to bump the level of firepower you have and bring infantry concurrently. You will be heavily outnumbered in most situations, and you'll need a solid amount of cheap AT to make up the difference against swarms, even more so than the regular T-80s. Because of the numerical disparity, you will have to play a far more subtle game than is typical for Soviets, and avoid casualties as much as possible. If NATO tactics using Russian equipment are what you’re after, then this is the formation for you! As an added bonus, it can make playing Soviets mercifully cheap in real-life currency.
In Real Life[edit]
Visually similar to the T-72, any Western commander who mistook it as such would be in for a shock: the T-80 was a frighteningly deadly weapon, combining the 125mm cannon with BDD armour superior to the T-64's, reactive armour blocks and the latest tank-killing shells the Soviet Union had to offer. Later versions like the T-80B would even have the ability to fire Kobra missiles, allowing it to outrange the latest Western tanks of the time. As of 1985, T-80U was arguably the best tank around: heavy ERA "Kontakt-5" made it pretty much immune to anything Westerners could reasonably throw at it, while newest munitions had a good chance of penetrating both Leopard-2 and M1A1 Abrams.
Unfortunately, gas turbine engines tend to require a lot of fuel to sustain. The US was able to sustain having those engines in their Abrams due to having ALL THE OIL, but Russia and its dead-in-the-water economy could not. Due to the increased costs of feeding and maintaining said engine, the Russians made the diesel T80UD for its armed forces but eventually decided to stick with the T-72. Eventually the T-72 would evolve into T-72BU or the T-90: a T-72 with better armor, an improved engine, the advanced fire control systems and APS found within the T-80 turret, provisions for ERA and loads of other smaller upgrades that essentially make it an entirely new tank.
Today, the T-80 remains the core of the Russian tank corps alongside heavily modernized T-72s. The T-80 might lack the reliability and fuel-economy of modern T-90 variants, but the Modern Russian Federation has the petroleum infrastructure the Union lacked to feed these gas guzzling monsters and so these tanks can keep up with all but the absolute best armour of the West… but not Javelin ATGM’s, as seen in Ukraine. This may be just retardedness though, as Ukrainian T-80s/T-84s are kicking ass and taking names of a lot of T-72s.
Soviet Forces in Team Yankee | |
---|---|
Tanks: | T55AM2 - T-62M - T-64 - T-72 - T-80 - T-72B - T-64BV |
Transports: | BTR-60 - BMP-1 - BMP-2 - BMP-3 -BMD-1 - BMD-2 - BTR-D |
Troops: | Motor Rifle Company - Hind Assault Landing Company - Afghansty Air Assault Company - BMP Shock Motor Rifle Company - BMD Air Assault Company - Afghansty BMD Air Assault Platoon |
Artillery: | 2S1 Carnation - 2S3 Acacia - BM-21 Hail - TOS-1 Buratino - BM-27 Uragan - 2S9 Nona - BM-37 82mm mortar platoon |
Anti-Aircraft: | ZSU 23-4 Shilka - SA-13 Gopher - SA-9 Gaskin - SA-8 Gecko - 2S6 Tunguska - BTR-ZD |
Tank Hunters: | Spandrel - Storm - BTR-RD - ASU-85 |
Recon: | BMP-1 OP - BRDM-2 |
Aircraft: | SU-22 Fitter - SU-25 Frogfoot - MI-24 Hind |