Mary Sue

This article or section contains opinions shared by all and/or vast quantities of Derp. It is liable to cause Rage. Take things with a grain of salt and a peck of Troll.

How it works.

Originally a Mary Sue is a character that is a shameless self-insert, poorly developed, without flaws and stupidly overpowered. /tg/ hates Mary Sues.

Unfortunately, after so much rage and so many troll threads, /tg/'s definition of Mary Sue has become blurred; no one can agree on what the phrase means, to the point where the mere mention of Mary Sue is enough to set off shitstorms across the board.

Some accept nothing less than the above description, and will sooner gut you then look twice if you say it's anything else. Others prefer a more generalized definition, which refers to an overly-idealized character who exerts an unjust amount of influence upon their respective setting or story. Others still carry this meaning out to extremes, and use the term to describe anyone who isn't a homeless junkie or a brooding sociopath with an alignment of chaotic neutral.

The term is commonly used by trolls, and can most easily be spotted by a blanket accusation of a character being a Sue without attempting to justify actual reasons behind it. More clever trolls will attempt to offer some explanation that is deliberately intended to get under the offended party's skin.

In case you were wondering, the name "Mary Sue" comes from a short piece of Star Trek fanfiction called A Trekkie's Tale (and by "short", we mean four paragraphs long). First written in 1974, the original Lieutenant Mary Sue was a parody of the half-Vulcan jailbait and other shameless self-inserts that had been clogging up the Star Trek fanfic magazines. The trolling was so epic that her name became permanently ingrained in the vocabulary of every fandom on the planet.

It is worth noting, however, that very rare authors have the skill to pull off the Mary Sue, creating a character of such epic awesomeness (Re. Jhon Luc Picard) that no one gives a shit.

Never Ending List of Mary Sues

(Note: please post Mary Sues in alphabetical order, so they don't fight about who's the better Mary-Sue.)

• Alice from the in-name-only "Resident Evil" movies. (character added into the movies, has superpowers and is presented as ENTIRELY invincible. Manages to becomes an even bigger sue when she loses said superpowers yet continuing to obliterate armies unscathed. The film refuses to even let other characters do anything but get rescued by her, she's worse than characters written by Mathew Ward. The bitch is played by the director's wife; she's his perfect mary-sue waifu insert and she's literally sleeping with him to get the job.) - Don't forget that she dual-wields katana. And shotguns. And probably desert eagles, too.
• Archaon, as he only loses to due Grimgor interrupting at the last minute. The campaign results not playing a role in Storm of Chaos can be forgiven because if GamesWorkshops used them like they said they would, the Hordes of Chaos would have been slaughtered before they even reached the Empire.
• Andrew "Ender" Wiggin from Orson Scott Card's Enderverse, and a very blatant (almost comical to a serious reader) example at that. What's worse: he only becomes more of this as the story and the books progress.
  • On that note, Valentine Wiggin, Ender's sister, who is only overshadowd by her obnoxious brother. Also has the distinction of being a self righteous prig.
• All Angry Marines, done on purpose for lulz (hypocritical mary sues). Mostly because you can't beat them and they are the every fa/tg/uy.
• Alucard from Hellsing Ultimate (Not that prissy shit of an anime series), not that he still isn't entertaining.
• Batman, depending the writer, usually if it's one of his fanboys, such as what Frank Miller has descended into.
• The Blaz Ravens, for comedic effect.
• Bella
• C'tan (They're Gods though, so they have an excuse Nope. They're Pokémons.)
• Cordell Walker from Walker Texas Ranger (the source of all the Chuck-Norris jokes), but he's actually eh pretty cool guy.
• Divis Mal
• Dr. Doom, depending on the writer. Worst case is he's written by somebody that forgets that he's a VILLAIN and depicts his rule over Latveria as unrealistically benign and it make look like the superheroes are wrong for trying to keep him from taking over the world.
• Drizzt (Deep down inside, you know it's true)
• Edward
• Elves, especially their heroes.
• Elminster Aumar (Forgotten Realms), who despite being unbelievably old and looking it, is having a threesome with his adoptive albino elf-daughter chick and the living goddess of magic right now, possibly while beating Bane in a sword fight with one hand and Bhaal in a magic fight with the other.
• Eldrad, and what's worse: he knows he is, and is a complete dick about it.
• Ember Storm
• Every protagonist of every video game; no matter how outnumbered and outgunned, they WILL slaughter the enemy by the dozens hundreds, if not the thousands.
• Godzilla, depending on the movie.
• Golden Aquilas, also done on purpose for lulz.
• Green Lantern, especially Hal Jordan.
• Grimgor Ironhide. He never loses, and if he does, any defeats he has are rendered non-canon. Plus HE causes Archeon's defeat and not of characters arranged against him.
• Hoah from Shaman King. If there is any villain that can truely be called a Mary Sue, it's him, most other villains with this accusation still get defeated. Hoah not only proves invincible throughout the whole series, able to easily pull of feats that are impossible for everybody else, he also has the ability to revive himself if killed meaning even the heroes beat him, which they state in a straight up fight is impossible, it would be pointless because he'd just back even stronger. The writer couldn't think of way to defeat so he instead makes a last minute turn towards good, so gets away with a number of atrocities that would make numerous the Warriors Of Chaos jealous.
• Harry Potter. Just.... Harry Potter.
• IG-88 in the Star Wars expanded universe, arguably a parody the idea given that he easily breaks into the second Death Star and uploads his personality into and takes control with nobody noticing, then gets blown up with the Death Star and nobody remembers him.
• Jacob.
• Jean Luc Picard (Not that anyone cares).
• James Bond. To what degree varies, but the Roger Moore version is the worst offender; he's unbeatable at just about everything, implausibly intelligent, a crack shot, and basically unkillable.
• Janway, she was always presented as being right in every situation and gets away with a number of atrocities that surpass many of Star Trek's villains.
• Jesus
• Jigsaw from the Saw films. Pick any character you think of with long list of skills or attributes, this guy has more, and he keeps getting away for a half dozen movies.
• Joan of Arc. IRL mary sue. Just a simple peasant girl who has no knight training nor commander intellectual pull the tide of a battle that has been going on for at least 100 years. Course she did end up burned at the stake.
• Kaldor Draigo. two simple words: Matt fucking Ward.
• Kalecgos (AKA. Kalec), blue dragon who can disguise himself as a human-elf hybrid; from World of Warcrabs. Ham-fistedly inserted into the Blood Elves potential redemption story arc by enabling it to happen. Then he takes over the blue dragonflight even though he's not the oldest, wisest or strongest blue dragon. Then he hooks up with a Jaina Proudmoore, a powerful human mage/noblewoman introduced in Warcraft III.
• Kenshiro, nothing can kill him and he's morally flawless, superior to everyone-fucking-else. In the anime until the end of Shin Saga at least, where he starts fucking up often even with his super kung-fu laser ninja powers, and most battles are curb-stomps until later on because it's a fucking show from the 80s. Note, however, that Kenshiro loses a lot, especially later on, and mostly wins his hardest battles because he's the only one worth a shit left alive by that point in the series.
• Kharn, though he'd be an even bigger one if he actually had any impact on the plot.
• Kratos : Yeah, he's a Mary Sue. He curbs stomps fucking gods due to plot armor (and because one of them decided to give a bloody psychopath god powers. Mensa applicate right there) and he has threesomes with complete strangers, even though he is meant to be grieving for the death of his family that he murdered himself. Oh and the rules for how death works change whenever its convenient for him.
• Kvothe/Kote from Ultimate Neckbeard Patrick Rothfuss
• Many famous comic book superheroes under the wrong writer, Batman and Wolverine probably being the worst offenders.
• The Mandalorians in the Star Wars Expanded Universe, depending whose writing them. While good under the correct writers, under some of the bad ones, they compete with badly written expanded universe Jedi and Sith for the position of Star Wars' Ultrasmurfs.
• Marneus Calgar, Marneus, Mar-n-eus, (e and s swap places) Mar-n-sue, (turn the n upsidedown), Mar-u-sue, (give the u a tail): Mary sue
• Captain Matthias Ward, I am the better Mary-Sue.
• Med'an from World of Warcrack. Part-Human, part-Orc and part-Draenei, inheritor of the top-spot in Azeroth mages, even beyond (-)any(-) High Elf mage. Also related to several lore characters in one way or another.
• Mordenkainen (Gary Gygax's personal avatar in the Greyhawk setting and a level 30 wizard who never fucking ages past 50 despite being a hundred fucking years old without turning into a lich, he became bald for some reason, which makes him look evil, but he remains stupid neutral).
• Most of the villains in Old World of Darkness. The writers didn't even try to hide that they favored them over the players.
• Mr. Popo in Dragon Ball Z Abridged, though he's that on purpose.
• All Na'vi
• Optimus Prime. not like we care, he's still awesome as fuck.
• The Primarchs and their daughters.THOSE WORDS ARE BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!! /tg/ can only create perfection!
• Rhonin, archmage of the Kirin-Tor, World of Warcrap. (Another Richard Knaak character. Obviously Richard Knaak is to Warcraft what Matt Ward is to Warhammer).

Tyrion Lannister. He kills tens soldiers and wins battles against master tacticians even though he has no military experience.

• Most 13 year-olds' RPG characters.
• Richard, from the Sword of Truth series (he's not as b.s. in the t.v. series)
• Rob Liefeld, a real life example, he's a terrible writer, one of the worst and most infamous artists alive, and yet he's keeps getting work and is one of the highest paid comic writers in the world despite the fact that it's easy to find webomics that are better drawn than his garbage.
• Space Marine smurfs under Matt Ward's writing.
• The Light from the Young Justice cartoon adaption. They can only lose if the plot requires it, and the number of times that happens can be counted on one hand. Plus they're boring.
• Thrall, Orc raised in a humie internment camp, became Azeroth's premiere shaman and leader of half the world. World of Warcramps. Even people that were fans of him during Warcraft III have started to get sick of him.
• The Unholy, half-crow cowgirl in Vampire: The Requiem
• Wesley Crusher
• Vast majority of self-insert fan-fic characters.
• Any White Wolf employee that shows up at a Vampire LARP session is automatically playing a millennia-old demigod vamp. (I wish I was exaggerating; they've waded into living-city LARP games as antediluvians and permanently killed people's Camarilla characters.)
• Young main characters in crappy Japanese animes and manga.
• Yuki Terumi, AKA Trollzama. The writers of BlazBlue don't even seem to be trying to leave a believable way for him to be defeated.

(More to be added later (sounds of crying editors))

How Can I Tell If My Character Is A Mary Sue?

Each "Yes" answer gives your character a piece of Mary Sueness.

• Does their personal morality always perfectly match objective reality? To put it another way, would there be any difference between describing their opinion and simply narrating what was actually going on in a scene?
• Do they start the story at the pinnacle of achievement and have no way to grow or improve?
• Is it a fan character that is better than the canon characters?
• Do all the canon characters suddenly start talking about a fan character, with their presence in the story largely relegated to providing opportunities for the new character to show how pure, powerful, good-hearted, etc they are?
• Are they someone's self-proclaimed fursona? (If so, stop reading this list and burn them for heresy).
• Do they always make good decisions? And bad ones that are suddenly revealed to have been a good choice?
• Do you use absolutes like "always," "everybody," or "never" when describing their abilities?
• Do they feature an entirely contrived "weakness" that doesn't affect them any time it would harm them (such as being clumsy unless they are required to perform a great feat of athleticism) or isn't really a weakness (such as being too kind or righteous "for their own good") which was clearly added solely so the author could point to it when accused of writing a Sue?
• Do you find that, rather than figuring out how the characters can work together to solve a problem, your primary concern as a writer is usually explaining why this one character can't do it on their own?
• Did Matt Ward write this character?

Gallery

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External Links

• TVTropes' article on Mary Sues, that discusses the phenomenon and its many forms in detail. Be wary, it is partially written by Sue-authors and therefore may turn into a hive of deceit and fail at a moment's notice.
• sup/tg/ archive of a hilarious thread with ultimate Mary Sue and PURE ENERGY in it.
• sup/tg/ archive of the Ultimate Mary Sue thread continued.
• sup/tg/ archive; ITT, the most grimdark setting ever conceived.
• Mirabelle Armitage, D&D Mary Sure beyond Drizzt.
• The many different types of Mary Sue