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List of Mary Sues

2017-07-24T13:04:27Z

2001:558:6045:E1:3103:9969:27C1:CAC3: /* Mary Sues Case Studies */ Feel free to further BLAM this one, but it's a logical result.

{{deletion|Totally subjective, half of these are just characters a random editor didn't like.}}

There are too fucking many [[Mary Sues]] in our games and fiction. We know it, and we love to complain about it, because it makes us feel a little better to call a spade a shovel. The original purpose of this list is to provide examples so the phenomenon can be studied, identified and as a result of the latter avoided.

(Note: please post Mary Sues in alphabetical order, so they don't fight about who's the better Mary-Sue. Also, this is about fictional characters, so while Canon Sues are acceptable, no real-life examples (even if there is such person named <s>Mary Sue AKA the Scientology founder's wife</s> I'm just adding that for fun). For the sake of peace, religious figures [and possibly mythological characters; particularly when they're from original mythologies] are real-life examples. Also, any characters added to the list without justifying reasons will be removed from this page. If you're going to add a race, please use the list below this one.

==Mary Sues Case Studies==

*[[Alice]] from the in-name-only ''Resident Evil'' movies: A character created for the movies, she has superpowers and is <s>presented as</s> ENTIRELY invincible. She manages to becomes an even bigger Sue when she loses said superpowers yet continues to obliterate armies unscathed. The film refuses to even let other characters do anything but get rescued by her, she's worse than characters written by Matthew Ward. The bitch is played by the director's wife; she's his perfect Mary Sue waifu insert and she's literally sleeping with him to get the job. Don't forget that she dual-wields katanas. And shotguns. And probably Desert Eagles, too.

*Andrew "Ender" Wiggin from Orson Scott Card's Enderverse, and a blatant (almost comical to a serious reader) example at that. What's worse: he only becomes more of this as the story and the books progress. It's even worse in the 2013 movie. At least the books gave the other characters more depth, Ender's feats took more time to achieve, and it contained some POV's that weren't of or about Ender.
** On that note, both of his siblings. Valentine, Ender's sister, is a self righteous prig who is only overshadowed by her obnoxious, sociopathic brothers. Peter, Ender's older brother, is a low functioning sociopath, [[What|but becomes intelligent enough that, as a child, he comes up with sophisticated political philosophies. As an adult, the prove so sophisticated that he's appointed Political Leader of Earth. Despite the fact that a sociopath with absolute power would become a dangerous tyrant as soon as someone refused to do what they say, he doesn't mess up and dies being hailed as a great ruler]]. Yes, this really happens.

*[[Batman]] in an unskilled author's hands. Because one of the effective DC editorial mandates is that Batman is not allowed to be truly defeated (he's usually too popular (and has a presence in too much of the DC Universe) to be allowed the downtime by editorial, unless it's part of a major storyline), a certain tendency for Batman to turn into a Mary Sue is well documented. That being said, there are many ways of adding dramatic tension to such a foregone conclusion situation, and the above mandate only includes actual defeat, so Batman is allowed to fail and make mistakes in certain situations, which also helps lessen the Bat-Sue Factor.

*[[Twilight|Bella Swan]]: Though she is a pretentious, manipulative, male-dependent, self-pitying downer who takes her parents for granted and makes no time for her friends, Bella is adored by all. Her first day of school is supposedly hard for her, despite the fact that every person she meets instantly presents her with a best friend badge, and/or falls in love with her. She's also clumsy EXCEPT when there's a moment where she'll die if she does something clumsy. Add being a painfully obvious author surrogate and even being the product of one of the author's dreams (S Meyer admitted that herself), "clumsy" Bella is the Mary Sue of her generation.

*Caius Ballad, the antagonist of ''Final Fantasy XIII-2''. Impractical overdesigned costume? Check. Impractical giant, overdesigned sword? Check. Purple hair? Check. Story-breaking powers? Check. Can't be beaten? Check. Openly called the most powerful ''Final Fantasy'' villain ever by his creator? Check. The only mitigating feature this fool has is that his English VA is Liam O'Brien.

*[[Cato Sicarius]]. Seriously this guy is Mary Sue's Mary Sue. He was born to a noble house on Talassar, trained with a sword as soon as he could hold one, inducted into the Ultramarines. He got commendation after commendation going from sergeant to company champion to Captain of the 2nd Company in several decades. He refined lightning assaults to near perfection and knows what to do after giving the battlefields a quick glance. He leads a company of mini Sues, each squad having some title for some great feat; their devastators having destroyed a titan, and a tactical squad that hasn't taken a casualty in close to 100 years. He is not only captain of the 2nd but "Master of the Watch", "Knight Champion of Macragge", "Grand Duke of Talassar", and "High Suzerain of Ultramar", seriously those last two titles are [[pretend|completely made up]]. He's a complete dick, valuing glory for himself and his company over all else, admitting to his men that he didn't care about planet Damnos when they were battling the Necrons over it (where he got his ass handed to him by a no-name Necron Lord). He also decided to appoint himself judge, jury, and executioner, to judge Uriel Ventris when he broke from the Codex, even though they're the same rank and only the Chapter Master has the right to do stuff like that. Oh yeah that reminds me, to top it all off most of the chapter thinks he's next in line to be Chapter Master, instead of Captain Agemman of the first company, even though he's got much (see fuck-tons) more experience than Sicarius. Add all that to the Mary Sue-ness of being a Space Marine and being in the Ultramarines and it reaches critical levels.

*Divis Mal from the RPG [[Aberrant]]. Oh, where to begin? Well, first of all on top of being the absolute, balls-out, most powerful Aberrant in the setting, ever, he's super smart, plans for everything, never loses ''no matter what the players do'', and has an ideology that can basically be described as "like Magneto, only ''right''. About ''everything.''" He's also in a loving relationship with a super-attractive partner who is ''also'' super-powerful, and his enemies are all stupid and happen to be straw-stuffed right-wing stereotypes because of course they are. He also serves as a thinly-veiled self-insert fanfic character for the lead game designer (a gay man with issues), and said designer once claimed that the title of the game referred to ''him specifically''. It was all the sequel game could do to take the piss out of all the problems he caused.

*Dr. Doom, depending on the writer. Worst case is he's written by somebody that forgets that he's a VILLAIN and depicts his rule over Latveria as unrealistically benign and makes it look like the superheroes are wrong for trying to keep him from taking over the world.

*[[Twilight|Edward Cullen]]: This character is the reason the popularity of vampires took a massive hit when the book came out. Possibly the most rage-inspiring aspect is he introduced the idea that vampires [[FAIL|SPARKLE HARMLESSLY LIKE DIAMONDS IN SUNLIGHT]]! He can read minds, is near impossible to kill, doesn't feed off humans despite his literal bloodlust except for criminals or "those who deserve to die", always fashionable and multi-talented. Despite being a textbook case of an emotionally abusive and controlling boyfriend to Bella, he's always treated as having the moral high ground... except when he refuses to make Bella a vampire, but that gets swept under the rug as soon as he changes his mind.

*[[Eldrad|Eldrad Ulthran]], and what's worse: he knows he is, and is a complete dick about it. Though he was recently imprisoned by his Craftworld for trying to help the Imperium and messing up Ynnead's ascension.

*Elizabeth from ''Bioshock Infinite''. Plot-sustaining power (the key to the whole plot literally rests in her hands), cannot be harmed, <s>makes a grown veteran of war look like an idiot child</s> only if you suck at the game... Regardless, she is routinely placed in easily escapable situations for the pure purpose of being saved when she can plausibly save herself, and makes none of the major (or minor) mistakes in the game. While some claim that she greatly dislikes violence, especially killing, she in fact killed a number of key characters in the game (Daisy Fitzroy, Dr. Pettifog & assistants, Songbird, Booker/Comstock). To make her comparable to Sues like Lightning and Alice, Ken Levin told the trolls who [[rule 34|34'd]] his perfect wife purpose, which result in a hilarious reverse psychology that gave Ken Levin [[promotions|what he wanted]].

*[[Elminster]], who is currently having a threesome with the goddess of magic and rad boobies and his adopted super-hot albino elf daughter while simultaneously beating the god of murder in a sword fight with one hand and the god of slavery in a magic fight with the other. Also, he's like a million years old and looks it. Ed Greenwood's self-insert character in the [[Forgotten Realms]], and a big source of "Why doesn't he just do this for us?" questions whenever he appears in questlines.

*Every author self-insert. Especially those found in high-school writing assignments.

*Green Lantern, especially Hal Jordan. All the human Green Lanterns are regularly shown to be the best Lanterns in the core because they ALL have either, indomitable willpower, skill, and courage, surpassing others who have been in the core for decades. Most other lanterns, exist only to be killed off as a means of showing how dangerous a threat is. They're only ever effective when they are helping the Human ones.

*Hoah from Shaman King. If there is any villain that can truly be called a Mary Sue, it's him, most other villains with this accusation still get defeated. Hoah not only proves invincible throughout the whole series, able to easily pull of feats that are impossible for everybody else, he also has the ability to revive himself if killed, meaning even if the heroes beat him, which they state is impossible in a straight-up fight, it would be pointless, because he'd just back even stronger. Worse is that he goes around saying how awful humans and everyone, even the writer, seems to agree with him because the series ends with him winning, only delaying his plans to kill humanity because reasons, and gets away with a number of atrocities that would make numerous the [[Warriors Of Chaos]] jealous.

*IG-88 in the ''Star Wars'' expanded universe, given that he easily breaks into the second Death Star and uploads his personality into it and takes control with nobody noticing, and before that single-handedly took over a planet.

*[[Twilight|Jacob Black]]: A werewolf from the Twilight franchise. He commits date rape on Bella (forcing a kiss), trolls the vampires and switches sides between the werewolves and the vampires without consequence. The worst part is when he [[FATAL|falls in love with Bella's and Edward's newborn daughter because of a vision, practicing wife husbandry on her as soon as she can walk and talk... and all the other characters are fine with this]]. The story also gushes about his looks to the point that the movie doesn't go five minutes without the character taking off his shirt and the camera focusing on his muscles.

*Jarod Shadowsong, [[World of Warcraft|World of Warcamp]]. Shoehorned into the setting in books "War of the Ancients" and "Wolfheart" written by Richard Knaak (Blizzard Entertainment's equivalent of [[Robin Cruddace|Robin Cruddace]]). Brother to canon character Maiev Shadowsong, love interest to Shandris Feathermoon, who is Tyrande's adopted daughter (both characters canon since WC3). His mere presence raises morale so much that people "automatically fight harder and obey him with greater swiftness". Survives a one-on-one fight against Archimonde, a demon lord who can destroy cities single-handedly, and DEMIGODS place themselves under his command! He spends thousands of years after the first fight against the Burning Legion resting on his laurels and doesn't show up when they invade the second time, but no-one calls him out on this in-universe.

*[[James Bond]]. To what degree varies, but the Roger Moore version is the worst offender: he's unbeatable at just about everything, a ladies' man to an unrealistic degree (even lesbians and villains who stand for everything he opposes switch sides after a dicking from Bond, not to mention that time he had sex with a lesbian it was questionable whether she consented...not that the story would punish Bond for possible rape), implausibly intelligent, a crack shot, and basically unkillable. In the books, he is an unlikable git and an alcoholic, yet still gets shit done.

*Jigsaw from the ''Saw'' films. Pick any character you know of with a long list of skills or attributes, this guy has more, and he keeps getting away for a half dozen movies.

*Jon Snow (especially the show version): While this is in the books as well, it is more evident in the show and he is currently dying from a mutiny in the books. Being a bastard is a bad thing in Westeros so he gets sent to the wall, but it's uphill from there. He gets a Valyrian steel blade (which is incredibly rare and an heirloom of noble houses) in his first week. He has a pet Direwolf puppy like his siblings, but of course his looks unique. From here he gets named as squire and successor to the commander of the Night's Watch (though this does cause some resentment among his peers). Later on he meets Wildings where he spares one who turns out to be a woman; it's obvious where this goes... they don't get along, they fall in love, have sex and spend some time together, something forces them apart and she dies. She also has red hair, which stands out because among Wildings its considered lucky. While he gets stabbed like in the books, in the show he dies from it then gets resurrected by Melisandre/the Lord of Light. He's revealed to be the bastard child of Rhaegar Targereyn and Lyanna Stark, making him Westeros' rightful king as well as beating Ramsay Bolton (see below); that's right, Jon's so Mary Sue his plot armor trumps the plot armor of another Mary Sue (to be fair, though, he was actually on the verge of loosing the big battle to Ramsay right up until the moment his ass gets saved by his little sister and about four thousand mounted knights.) While some of the earlier traits don't necessarily equal a Mary Sue, they add up... oh, they add up (at least Tyrion and Dany suffer lasting consequences that balance out their out-of-the-ordinary awesomeness).

*Kai Leng, from ''[[Mass Effect|Mass Effect 3]]''. You're constantly told he's a badass assassin, but when he shows up, Shepard's crew suddenly become drooling idiots so Leng can strut about, act tough, and monologue. He brags about killing Thane (alien assassin squadmate from the previous game) even though the latter was hobbled by a terminal illness requiring daily medical care and Thane ''STILL'' got the drop on Kai Leng; Thane even says himself "That other assassin should be embarrassed. A terminally-ill Drell kept him from reaching his target." When you "win" the "fight" against him on Thessia, he still gets away, utterly unaffected by the crumbling architecture that stops Shepard from pursuing him. By the end of the fight, you've advanced the plot a grand total of nowhere, regurgitated information you already have, and been hamstrung as a player because the writer wants his character to look cool. He is yet another antagonist dropped onto a story filled with them, but is nothing more than a costume, sword, and book of one-liners. Unlike Saren from ME1, we have no connection with this douchebag because the story doesn't give him enough screen time to develop into anything.

*[[Kaldor Draigo]].

*Kalecgos (AKA Kalec), blue dragon who can disguise himself as a human-elf hybrid; from [[World of Warcraft|World of Warcrabs]]. Ham-fistedly inserted into the Blood Elves' redemption story arc as an enabler. Later he takes over the blue dragonflight even though he's not the oldest, wisest or most powerful blue dragon. Later he hooks up with Jaina Proudmoore, a powerful human mage/noblewoman/faction leader introduced in Warcraft III. She does this in spite of their vast age difference (which made her reject an Elven prince who loved her).

*[[Fist of the North Star|Kenshiro]], nothing can kill him and he's morally flawless, superior to everyone-fucking-else. At least until Shin Saga in the anime, where he starts fucking up often, even with his super kung-fu laser ninja powers. Most battles are curb-stomps until later on because ''it's a fucking show from the 80's''. Do note, however, that Kenshiro loses a ''lot,'' especially later on, and mostly wins his hardest battles because he's the only one worth a shit left alive by that point in the series.

*Kratos from ''[[God of War]]''. He curb-stomps fucking gods due to [[plot armor]] (and because one of them decided to give a bloody psychopath the powers of a god; MENSA applicant right there) and he has threesomes with complete strangers, even though he is meant to be grieving for the death of his family that he himself murdered. Oh and the rules for how death works change whenever it's convenient for him.

*Krasus (AKA Korialstraz) from [[World of Warcraft|World of Warcrack]] <s>(noticing a trend yet?)</s>, mainly due to the author's overuse of him. An elf who's secret identity is he's really a dragon, and one of the oldest living dragons. One of the leaders of the Kirin Tor. Consort/Adviser of the Dragon Queen, he might as well be the Dragon King considering how much importance she puts on him. He also gets sent back in time to partake of a historical event despite the fact HIS YOUNGER SELF WAS AROUND IN THAT TIME. He also set up another Mary Sue in Warcraft, Rhonin (NOTE; both characters were created by the same author).

*Lightning from ''Final Fantasy 13'', she is basically a pink-haired Cloud without any of Cloud's likable personality traits. She's currently the NEW AND ASTONISHING HEAVENLY Valkyrie that fights a purple Sephiroth in her new game "Lightning's Return". Not that we care, but she was created by Motomu Toriyama (Matt Ward's Japanese cousin), a man with a Chris-Chan-like persona and Matthew Ward-style writing who is now continuously raping the franchise. He has a waifu love for Lightning like Paul has for Alice. Lightning is comparable to Alice on many levels, which says a lot, really. She also has tons of fucking DLC "costumes" dedicated to her so the player could dress her up and fap her to death. This is so fucking shameful that I'm crazy enough to believe Alice is a much capable heroine. Somebody kill me, please. Oh, just recently, Toriyama decided to have Lightning become a guest character in a future Final Fantasy. So not only is the franchise gonna suffer the rotting Emperor syndrome, but Lightning is now the literal goddess of every Final Fantasy game? Seriously, have you ever seen Paul doing such disgusting things with Alice? Like forcing Alice into an actual ''Resident Evil'' game (well, the ''Resident Evil'' franchise is dead as well)? Motomu Toriyama is officially worse than Paul Anderson!!
** Gets worse: Toriyama has stated that Lighting is the "first" strong female character in any ''Final Fantasy'', which ignores dozens of better-written female characters, some of which he himself has written, the "strong" meaning just physical doesn't work either since FF7's Tifa (a game he worked on, btw) can punch tanks to death.

*Magneto has the INSANE potential to become this when crappy writers start taking his sympathetic traits too far ("Hey guys, let's [[What|make Magneto a member of the X-Men and have him date Rogue]]!") Hell, he sometimes becomes this even when he's a horribly despicable villain. Jeph Loeb's raping of the Ultimate Universe known as "Ultimatum" has him use his magnetic powers to nearly destroy the world just by waving his hands at Earth's magnetic poles (completely breaking the laws of physics in the process) and then effortlessly take on half the X-Men and almost all of the Ultimates singlehandedly and nearly win.

*[[Marneus Calgar]], especially post-Ward. Killing an Avatar of Khaine by punching its chest in and not getting seriously hurt in said fight with one. An Avatar of Khaine is supposed to be as hard to kill as a Bloodthirster, something that takes a Primarch or a Bio-titan to beat in a one-on-one fight (then again, Games Workshop loves [[Worf|worfing]] Avatars, and Space Marines are their Creator's Pet). Calgar had his arms and legs chopped off by the Swarmlord, which didn't kill him due to Plot Armor, and he leads the Ultramarines, themselves considered a Mary Sue chapter in a Mary Sue faction (see the Space Marine entry on this page). These are just the first few examples.

*Master Chief from the ''[[Halo]]'' series is definitely one. For one, he has [[Matt Ward|Ward-grade]] [[Heresy|plot armor]]. Seriously, it was repeated throughout the games that he was born with the word [[What|'''LUCK''']]. To further expand on his Sueness, this 7-foot tall hunk of raging Leprechaun saved the entire Galaxy ''Twice!'', single-handedly stopped the Human-Covie War at the last minute, escaped and defeated an entire race of "Super-Space-Zombie-Fungus" that could mindfuck Culture-tier Civilizations without [[What|having his own brain being raped]], is one of the last surviving SPARTAN II's, solo an entire legion of Covenant Honor-Guards (Which are like Spacemarine Captain levels) as well as successfully assassinating a very important Covie leader protected by said Guards without being captured, survived escaping an Exterminatus-level explosion that destroyed a Super-Weapon 'Ring' by ''out-flying it'', somehow his armor is strong enough to deflect Fuel-Rod shots (Which are essentially Plasma Cannons), destroy a flying and mentally psychotic lightbulb with an overcharged Lascannon as a Self-Defence weapon (To be fair 343 Guilty Spark ''is'' a Forerunner Janitor Robot), and did I mention he saved the entire Galaxy ''twice''? Furthermore with the release of Halo 4, MC is now magically gifted the genes and DNA by the Librarian to become full on [[RAGE|''impervious to a fucking Forerunner Super-Weapon/Death-Beam'']], which allows him to single-handedly fight through the insides of a very important Forerunner Capital Ship filled with Necron/Warp-Spiders kill bots and somehow through the act of plot, [[Derp|defeat ''the'' highest ranked Forerunner Military General that has the power to solo the entire Galactic Empire from Star Wars.]] I mean [[Rage|WTF!]] did the developers of Halo not realize that they just created a character with plot-armor so powerful that they make the likes of [[Kaldor Draigo]] look decent in comparison? Thankfully however, as pants-on-head retarded as some of the feats listed for MC are, he at least has some faults such as being psychologically raped in childhood, doesn't have the "Morally Superior to thou" personality and has a very grim view of the war, almost got killed by the killer space popcorn, being rather mediocre for a SPARTAN II when compared to his other colleagues, is only good in leadership and even then made some stupid mistakes, gets pretty beaten the fuck up by a Brute, his Superhuman abilities only stopped when fighting against low-ranked Elites and know he will lose against one if he fought one-by-one, and most of the battles he has been through had almost cost him his life. Those faults listed are what makes good old Chiefy ''NOT'' in the top 10 most powerful Mary-Sues and makes him somewhat tolerable albeit boring compared to the other listed.

*[[Captain Matthias Ward]], I am the better Mary-Sue.

*Mordenkainen (Gary Gygax's personal avatar in the Greyhawk setting and a level 30 wizard who never fucking ages past 50 despite being a hundred fucking years old without turning into a lich, he became bald for some reason, which makes him look evil, but he remains stupid neutral).

*Olympia Vale, another character from the [[Halo]] Series and seems to be all around taking over the mantle of Mary Sue from Master Chief as he is pushed in the sidelines like an old man being pushed in the old folks home. Whilst Locke has been accused for being a rather bland and forgettable copycat cutout of the original MC, he still pales in comparison to that of Vale. Essentially imagine Vale as MC but remove the sociopathic and borderline mentally damaged aspects of John 117, make her a prodigy even beyond that of Spartan recruits which in turn made her pretty easy to integrate in the SPARTAN IV program and make her instantly learn the language of the Elites whilst by herself in space with the only excuse being that [[Bullshit|'she was bored'.]] Vale and to an extent, the majority of the SPARTAN IV's seem to be an ongoing campaign from Karen Traviss (AKA the Destroyer of Fluff and Halo's Matt Ward) [[Derp|to further demonize Halsey and her SPARTAN II program]] for no better reason other than being forced to be [[Fail|unethical in an organization as ethically sound as the]] [[Inquisition|Imperial Inquisition.]] As you can imagine, this has already spurred some [[Skub|ire bitching]] in the Halo community and only time will tell if newer sequels from the game would flash her character out in a more decent or obscene matter.

*Ozymandias, AKA, Adrian Alexander Veidt from ''Watchmen''. Born into a wealthy family (then threw it all away and earned even more money), perfect athlete, good-looking, smartest man in the world (He mind fucked Dr. Manhattan, a blueish godlike superhuman), and a vegetarian. The only downside he had is loneliness, since he had betrayed all his friends and killed the only companion in his life, a fucking genetically-engineered female lynx named Bubastis, by having her bait Dr. Manhattan to the incinerator and killed them both with a switch. Still, Ozymandias is perfect because Mary Sue don't need friends. It was also portrayed that his "common enemy" scheme to stop World War 3 (which involved killing millions) in a positive or at least sympathetic light. He also grabbed the bullet fired by Silk Spectre. Interesting to note that he the idol he worships: Alexander of Macedonia, is a man born before Christ, and the name Ozymandias is reference to a freaking [[Necron|Egyptian pharaoh: Ramses II]], proving that Adrian is just as egoistic as [[Dante]] and the [[Ultramarines]] by have the name of an ancient ruler as his own nickname. Hell, his color page on "before the watchman" made him looked like some sort of floating Jesus!!

*The [[Primarch]]s <s>and their [[Warhammer High|daughters]].</s>{{BLAM|'''THOSE WORDS ARE BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!! /tg/ can only create perfection!'''}} (To be fair, the daughters are only Sues in that they inherited their Sue traits from their fathers.)

*Prometheus (the DC supervillain) certainly didn't ''start'' as this but ended up being twisted into one. When first introduced he was a genuinely cool and intimidating supervillain whose insane skill and manipulations were balanced out by his crippling mental issues (which the heroes exploited to take him down). Unfortunately, writers who weren't as skilled as Grant Morrison got their paws on him and made him ludicrously overpowered to the point where he single-handedly ''destroyed Star City, killing Roy Harper's daughter in the process''. Thus Prometheus went from an awesome member of Batman's rogue gallery to a complete waste of pages. Thankfully he was prevented from becoming any worse thanks to Green Arrow putting an arrow through the bastard's skull.

*Ramsay Bolton (show version): Oh good fucking God, where to start with this particular Villain Sue? Well, for one, he manages to take on twenty of the best Ironborn warriors, who were all heavily armed and armored, while COMPLETELY SHIRTLESS, a bit tired from a vigorous sex session with his show version only girlfriend, and armed with nothing but a kitchen knife and a mace, and SOMEHOW kicks their asses. Then, much later, he is shown to completely annihilate the battle-hardened Stormlander army led by Stannis Baratheon, the greatest military commander in Westeros, with nothing but cavalry, while the previous episodes had established that Ramsay is a tactically inept moron. (This can also tie in with the fact that the writers of the show seriously fucked over Stannis from "stern-but-honorable competent tactical genius" into "greedy, fanatical moron"). Finally, he is constantly shown to get his way no matter how stupidly contrived it seems to the viewer, arguably the worst case being marrying and deflowering Sansa Stark by raping her and getting the killing blow on fan-favorite giant Wun-Wun. His Sueness ends with his face getting caved in by Jon and fed to his own hounds by Sansa.

*Revan, from ''Knight of the Old Republic''. Classic [[Star Wars]] Mary Sue, but done in such a way that we still think he's awesome, achieved way more than nearly any other SW character ever did: ''single-handedly'' won the Mandalorian Wars ''(according to Canderous Ordo)'', then became Dark Lord of the Sith, then ''very nearly'' defeated the Republic in such a way to [[Just as Planned|not leave it a smoldering ruin]], then suffered cliche amnesia and still managed to ''remaster'' the Force, going from Padawan to Jedi Master in a couple of weeks and then won the Jedi Civil War, THEN got his memories back and managed to combine his Jedi/Sith powers enough to not give a fuck about anything. Was said to be one of the best lightsaber duelists ever, a champion swoop racer, and capable of manufacturing awesome ''(see HK-47)'' droids. The only person he couldn't defeat was the Sith Emperor of the time who had absorbed the Force energies of entire planets, yet STILL managed to keep him at bay mentally for 400 years until SW:TOR.

*Rey AKA Ma-Rey Sue from the new Disney trilogy of [[Star Wars]]. Like Olympia Vale from [[Halo]], Rey has only been in one movie insofar so she has an excuse that later sequels would flash out her character more. However, even then she has already caught some backlash among the old guards of Star Wars who view her as a self-insert Mary Sue with a feminist agenda. Pushing aside from politics, accusations on why she is an insufferable Mary Sue spans from her immediately knowing how to fly the Millennium Falcon despite being a scavenger who should have no pilot experience, knowing more about the inner workings on [[What|''said'' Millennium Falcon then Han Solo and Chewbacca]] (You know, the guys who flew the ship for half their god damned lives), knowing how to [[Derp|speak and understand Wookie]] despite no evidence or mention that she could, being all of a sudden a [[Wat|powerful Force user who can resist the mind tricks of a trained Jedi-turned-Sith apprentice]] despite no previous mention of her being a Force sensitive, [[Bullshit|performing said Jedi mind trick almost immediately after learning she is a Force Sensitive]] despite the fact that performing a Jedi mind tricks is known to be difficult to master, learning how to be a [[Herp|ridiculous crack shot of a Blaster Pistol]] immediately after being given by Han Solo with no mention on any military training and [[Fail|kicking a pretty powerful Force User in the ass that has been trained in the lightsaber far longer that she is]] (To be fair, Kylo Ren was shot by Chewbacca's Bowcaster which can make people fly ten feet of the air). As you can imagine, this created a [[Skub|shitstorm of untold proportion]] not seen since the likes of Chewbacca being killed back in Legends material.

*Rhonin, archmage of the Kirin Tor, [[World of Warcraft|World of Warcrap]]. Richard Knaak is Blizzard Entertainment's Matt Ward, and Rhonin is Knaak's [[Kaldor Draigo]]. He makes up a new member of the famous Windrunner family just so Rhonin can boast being connected to these legendary elves in Warcraft. They have half-elf kids who are blessed by dragons despite the fact they've done nothing to earn it (the player characters have done more, but they don't get anything like that; just a few trinkets that will be rendered obsolete by the next expansion). Even the name Rhonin is just the title "Rōnin" (referring to a Samurai with no master during Japan's feudal period) with a few changes to anglicize the name (and, of course, the character doesn't even look Japanese). He gets sent back in time to partake in the first fight against the Burning Legion for no other reason than Knaak wanted Rhonin to be there. He does practically nothing in the game, yet everyone says he's a great hero; even then, he didn't do half the things they praise him for.

*Richard, from the Sword of Truth series (he's not as bad in the TV series). He is always considered an ideal hero despite being cruel, sociopathic, and thinking that the universe should bend over backwards for him [[What|(which it actually does).]] Everyone who disagrees with him is evil (even if that's the only reason they're considered a villain) or turns evil. Gratuitous rape is thrown in by the author as a cheap way to make him look better (making villains as reprehensible as possible doesn't solve the problem of the protagonist being completely un-heroic).

*Richard B. Riddick, from the Riddick universe. Vin Diesel's personal self-insert. Didn't start out as a Mary Sue though, going from a sensible power level ''(where a fist-fight with a morphine-addicted merc is reasonably fair)'' and dubious morality that you just had to love. Later becoming ''(particularly amongst the directors cuts)'' a superpowered badass who can single-handedly take on squads of soldiers with a knife, resist soul sucking, commune with animals and make threats with [[Just as Planned]] modes of killing. ''("kill you with my teacup" / "dead in 5 seconds")'', oh... he can also explode as shown in the director's cuts and off-screen in the video games. His later portrayals also show his morality becoming a "told you so" mentality, where, when people die it's really because they are the assholes and nothing to do with Riddick.

*Selene, from the 'Underworld' movies. Throughout the series, she bears several similarities to [[Alice]]; both are experts with weapons, both have superior biology to their respective species (humans for Alice, Vampires for Selene), both kill their way through swarms of enemies without getting a scratch, both have little regard for their source material, and both are played by the wives of the directors of their respective film series.

*Sonichu, made by [[Chris-Chan|you-know-who]].

*Squirrel Girl from Marvel Comics. Played entirely for laughs: Doreen Grey is a [[Mutant]] teenage girl with Spider-Man levels of strength/speed/agility, can grow bone knuckles, can talk to squirrels (and have them do her bidding) and has the ability to defeat any villain she wants off-screen. This includes big-name villains like Doctor Doom (she beat him in his first appearance and several times afterwards), Ego the Living Planet (who is, like his name suggests, a planet, meaning that a teenage girl beat up a planet), Thanos (who is one of the biggest badasses of the Marvel Universe, but the writers saved his face by replacing him in this instance with a perfect copy of him), Deadpool (whom she calls the mean, mean man; he's actually scared of her), M.O.D.O.K. and tons of other people. She was once part of a C-list superhero team, but quit because she thought she was holding them back (which she was entirely correct about: she once apologized to them for being late because she had to beat a 100' space dragon) and left for Marvel's Nexus of the Multiverse: New York. Despite her unapologetic Mary Sue-ness the fans love her and see her as the one spot of light in the otherwise relentlessly [[grimdark]] Marvel Universe.

*Superman in the hands of a poor writer. He is morally perfect, one of the strongest beings in the DC universe, and his one weakness that's supposed to kill him never works <s>ex: he lifts an entire continent of Kryptonite after being stabbed by a dagger made of it</s> thankfully ''Superman Returns'' had so many plotholes that ''Man of Steel'' declared it all non-canon. The only way to nerf him is to have Batman beside him, because Superman always becomes a dumbass when Batman is around (go watch DCAU Justice League to see for yourself).

*Sylvanas Windrunner from [[World of Warcraft]]: Started out as a Fantasy counterpart for Sarah Kerrigan, she's been turning into Fantasy Hitler/Mengele. She sets up the Undercity as a fortress/Horde-run concentration camp for Alliance captives, and has free reign of atrocities ranging from slavery to genocide. Her Royal Apothecary kidnapped innocents to experiment upon under her watch, torturing them for fun and science. She was under suspicion for the Wrathgate Incident (she knew about the plague, but not that it would be used on the Horde too), invaded Gilneas, nuked Southshore, waged a torture-filled genocidal campaign on the Humans, manipulated the Horde (to join them in the first place in order to use them as tools), built a Cult of Personality around herself, employed the Val'kyr (which seems to be a case of "Even Chaos has standards" when seen by pragmatic Death Knight Thassarian), resurrected those who she killed against their will despite not liking when it happened to her, shot and killed Liam Greymane then taunted his father Genn about it, attempted to steal the Scythe of Elune to enslave the Worgen to expand her personal army and made some kind of deal with the devil to get the Val'kyr in the first place. The closest she got to any kind of punishment was Lor'thermar threatening to kill her if she raised the Horde's dead as Forsaken, stating he'd leave her to the Alliance if she tried it on their dead and calling her out on several of her actions in Mists of Pandaria. In Legion, after retreating from the Broken Shore on Vol'jin's death, the crowning moment of Mary Suedom occurs when she ends up being named the next Warchief of the Horde with Vol'jin's dying words. Mary Sue reason? She never suffers any ''(literally, ANY)'' setback except Greymane ruining her Val'kyr agenda. All her atrocities and horrors are ignored into heroism, and what's worse, she automatically pulls out the next phase of her agenda out of her ass, and her Forsaken, despite horrendous losses and ban on raising unwilling dead, somehow destroys each and everything innocent around her...only for her to get raised of Warchief status. This issue is compounded by the fact that Sylvanas has a very vocal fanbase and she's the Creator Pet of one of Blizzard's lead writers, David Kosak.

*Tauriel, Peter Jackson's special snowflake from ''The Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug'' (a Mary Sue in something related to Tolkien; [[Tolkien|Beren and Luthien are deep and well-written enough to get a pass]], this is a sad day). Not content with pissing on the established characters and story from the book (i.e. the Barrel-escape from Thranduil's castle is changed, Smaug is much less intelligent than he is in the book...), Peter also adds unnecessary and over-the-top new characters. Tauriel's ridiculously skilled at fighting (even for an elf) and has healing powers. According to all of Tolkien's books, only a select few elves can heal people such as Lord Elrond Half-Elven, wielder of one of the three Elven Rings of Power and a direct descendant of the Kings of the Noldor; all things which Tauriel lacks. In addition, she's ship-teased with canon-characters Legolas (who never appears, or even gets mentioned, in the book) and Kili.

*Thrall, the (in)famous Orc Warchief from ''[[Warcraft]]''. Started out cool in WC3 as an Orc orphan raised in a human internment camp who escaped with help from a friend, he led the Orcs because he was the former Warchief's son and a powerful but not story-breaking shaman. By having his forces fight alongside the trolls and Tauren he made allies. Though he fucked up by sending Grommash to collect resources from Ashenvale (antagonizing the Night Elves, giving the demons an opportunity to corrupt the Orcs and leading to the death of a demigod who would've been a great help against the Burning Legion), though with a lot of help from some allies and another demi-god he sets things right. In the Cataclysm expansion for World of Warcramps, he became Azeroth's premiere shaman and leader of half the world while appointing the <s>[[Skub|VERY CONTROVERSIAL]]</s> <s>balls to the wall violent and universally hated</s> patriotic warmonger Garrosh Hellscream as Warchief of the Horde; despite the protests of several others ''including Garrosh himself'' (who was uncertain he could handle the responsibility of such a role at the time). Takes over as Aspect of Earth from a borderline demigod, and even deals a crippling blow to him when he's empowered by the Old Gods. Even people that were fans of him during Warcraft III have started to get sick of him.

*[[Star Trek|Wesley Crusher]]. Originating from the same franchise as the original Mary Sue, Wesley is a very young ensign training to be an officer in Starfleet, where he's earned the admiration of many of the bridge officers. He became something of a protege to Captain Picard, who was impressed by Wesley after he showed that he had learned all the controls at the captain's chair when they first met. <s>While not morally perfect or incorruptible Wesley is as close as he can be in most cases</s> He's only moral by Gene Roddenberry's standards ''(which were messed up beyond belief, the man thought it was okay to be a prima donna director to a point that made even Stanley Kubrick and James Cameron look tame but not for children to grieve over dead loved ones, and that's not getting into his corporate shyster practices, anti-religious prejudices and sexism; seriously we're not making any of that up)'', by a normal person's, he's smug and egocentric, along with his [[Deus Ex Machina]] techno skills, which are shown off by making the rest of the crew look useless. He notably also gets the Enterprise into danger before getting it out of it, and never gets called out for it. Many people thought that he was an insufferable little shit, among them Wil Wheaton (the actor who PLAYED the guy).
** Interestingly, Captain Kirk himself is something of a Mary Sue; Roddenberry himself practically outright stated he wanted the show to have that ambiance that Kirk, as his Author Avatar, could have any woman he desired.

*Uriel Ventris - despite initially coming off as a subversion of Wardian Ultramarines-are-the-best Mary Sue bullshit, he quickly devolves into [[Skub|Ultramarines are the worst unless they use the Codex to wipe their asses and act like Space Wolves]] - which is pretty much limited to - guess who? - McNeill's OC-Do-Not-Steal Special Snowflake Ventris.

*[[Loli|Young main characters]] in crappy [[Asians|Japanese]] [[anime|animes]] and [[manga]].

*Judging from the rest of the list, [[Skub|any character you don't like.]]

==Mary Sue Races==
While not every member of a race is a Mary Sue, [[Chakat|with one or two exceptions]], sometimes whole races are considered Mary Sues because they have huge amounts of plot armor and are idealized beyond reason. They were put here as the Mary Sue list was originally conceived for characters. Also, please list them in alphabetical order.

* Although some might find this as [[Skub|arguable,]] the characteristics describing the Asari race in [[Bioware|Mass Effect]] are blatantly Mary-Sue. Although not every Asari is a Mary Sue (though some are), when it comes to the general race as a whole, oh boy does their 'Sueness' reach Chakat levels. Examples on what makes them a Mary Sue includes having the second longest lifespan behind the Krogan (over 1000 years, plus they lack the Krogans violent nature which can easily waste their long lifespans), all of them are biotic users, every one in the game is intelligent, founders of the council, considered sexy by many other species despite being a monogendered species (even Salarians, who lack a sex drive and mate by necessity), and are deliberately oversexualised by the developers so they can be [[Rule 34|Rule 34'ed to death]]. Their race as a whole is portrayed as peace loving hippies, the best diplomats, the most respected species in the galaxy as well as having a serious case of "Holier/Morally Superior then thou" attitude. Their ship the "Destiny Ascension" is the largest and most powerful ship in the Citadel fleet and their ships perversely resemble a lady privates because you know they all look like "wominz". Thessia, their homeworld, is regarded as the "jewel" of the galaxy as well as having the largest amount of Eezo which partially explains how their entire race is biotics. Any asari can 'Read' most people's minds and inner-thoughts with near complete-accuracy, though only if that person agrees to it (they can literally mindfuck you). Furthermore with their way of reproduction, since they are monogendered (Meaning their all female) a lot of newcomers in Mass Effect start to scratch their heads on how they manage to get each other pregnant without any physical evidence of having a dick (Although one of the hypothesis is that they might actually screw around with the local fauna AKA Bestiality). However the fluff states this as Parthenogenesis, for those that don't know what it is, think of them as chickens....which is actually hilarious if you seriously put the comparison in context. Another odd thing about their reproduction is that somehow the Asari have the capability of getting pregnant from just about '''''Anyone'''''. [[Chakat|Do those traits sound fucking familiar to you?]] So all in all, not only are they a holy (unholy?) fusion of a smurf, elf and a monster girl, but they also commit in sweaty Lesbian/Bestiality/Xenoality orgies with almost everyone, turning the Asari race into nothing more then a giant Whorehouse for Aliens and Humans to fap in a hundred dozen ways and yet they are still ''okay'' with that....<s>Slaneesh approve of this!</s> {{BLAM|'''''BLAM! BLAM! DOUBLE HERESY!'''''}} But to be fair, at least Asari aren't [[Avatar|furries]] or physical [[Chakat|hermaphrodites]].

** Amusingly enough, the third game reveals that the only reason Asari are so much more advanced than the other races is because the Protheans (the super-advanced precursor race) were deliberately manipulating them and sneaking tech to them in their ancient history in order to give them a boost (such as genetically engineering them to be a race of skilled biotics and [[STC|leaving instruction manuals on how to create all sorts of advanced technology and deal with the other races in their "beacons"]]). The hope was that if they were given enough a headstart, the Asari would be able to unite and lead the other races to victory against the Reapers (in other words, they were deliberately ''trying'' to make the Asari Mary Sues in order to give the next cycle an advantage over the Reapers). Instead the Asari kept that knowledge to themselves and used it to become the most powerful race in the galaxy. When the Reapers showed up, the Asari buried their heads in the sand like the smurf elf pussies they are on their homeworld, leaving the other races to fend for themselves, than promptly got their asses kicked by the Reapers (Which they probably deserved it for being such [[Eldar|self-righteous and selfish cockbags]]). Perhaps one of the few instances of a Mary Sue being both invoked and subverted.

*[[Angry Marines]]. When was the last time YOU heard of an Angry Marine LOSING? Thought not.

*The [[Drow]] from [[Drowtales]]. Seriously just reading the main page on why they are a bunch of insufferable Mary Sues is enough to make any [[Neckbeard]] to combust into flames by pure [[RAGE]]. Read it, and despair.

* ALL [[Chakat|Chakats!]] The entire fucking race are distilled and purified Mary Sues, sometimes warping stories they are even mentioned in passing. Not just [[monstergirls|feline-centaur]] [[/d/|dick-girls]](Sick Fucks), they're also each master psionicists with faster-than-light mind-reading, able to cure deep neurotic complexes with a good deep dickin', strongest and most stable form of 'Taurs', considered as the most "beautiful thing in the universe" despite looking exactly like lions with the fact that they have dicks, morally perfect to the extreme, nobody technically hates them, their breast milk can turn the most feeble human into mini-Arnold Schwarzeneggers and every non-Chakats seem to have a unnatural and unhealthy lifestyle on trying to "Do it" with them. Despite the fact that there are hundreds of ''other'' Catgirls outside of this furfag heresy, that are more attractive, cuter and prettier then them with the added benefit that they are actually female, not hermaphrodite abominations.

* [[Elf|Elves]] are often portrayed this way in fiction, though there are exceptions and it's becoming rarer for elves to be portrayed as Mary Sues. A lot of their sueness comes from how idealized they are. They're always beautiful, sometimes even without making an effort, either immortal or have very long lifespans and can only die from violence. They're often considered to have the moral high ground yet also be condescending to the younger races, but the elves contempt kept getting justified in some stories. Some have the natural ability to make anything beautiful from even the most base materials, naturally have great magical ability, and are often favored by their gods. However, there are evil elves in fiction and some elves who are morally good without being Mary Sues.

*[[Doctor Who|Whoverse Humanity]] takes this up to a 100 million in this case. Depending on the timeline, Humanity not only manage to become the dominant ruler of the multi-galaxy not once, but [[What|'''Five Fucking Times!''']] Without any indication on how they manage to conquer the Galaxy, thriving with hostile Aliens that could LOLStomp the Necrons, Eldar and Imperium ''combined''. Furthermore not only are they one of the [[Imperium of Man|most numerous species in the Universe,]] but also one of the most adaptable and longest lasting race, as seen when they are one of the [[Grimdark|few species still alive near the end of the fucking Universe.]] To give you an idea on how fucking ludicrous Humanity got within Doctor Who, in just 500 years from present day, Humanity was already a major force in the Galaxy ([[Star Trek|Compare this to most Sci-Fi timelines]] [[Bioware|where Humanity either just started to explore their surroundings]] [[Halo|or already establish a small and insignificant area]]), as well as having weapons that could make [[Strike Legion]] seem useless in comparison, and when you take note on how short the timeline distance is between the present day and the end of the Universe, it just makes you say to yourself....the Fuck? Compare this to say [[Star Wars]] in which they have the excuse of not knowing how long Humanity has been space traveling, or [[WH40K]] where the thousands of years gap of slow progress before the Warp Drive was invented seem much more plausible then this absurd scenario. You know Humanity is a Mary Sue when even the near-death of the Universe can't kill them off....until a certain Dues Ex Machina appeared. To be fair, they only gain their Sueness momentum when a certain Time Lord keep on foiling the plans of countless Aliens attempting to conquer and crush humanity in various stages in time; either that or because the Doctor has a unusually unhealthy Humanophile fetish. They are probably one of the few examples of a "Accidental Mary Sue", in which the Doctor, with his fancy Time gizmos and intellect, unintentionally guided Humanity to such power levels by either saving their asses from certain doom or altering the timeline so they won't fuck up, due to his love of Humans. Granted Whoverse Humanity is definitely far from morally perfect (A substantial amount of Whoverse villains are Humans and the multiple Human Empires itself are morally questionable at best), the main point of contention is how influentially powerful they are for such a young race while at the same time, disregarding other more ancient and more powerful races (Silurian, Cybermen, Sontarian, Ice Warriors, etc) that should be the one having more galactic screen time and hegemony then them.

* Dwarves as seen in the Artemis Fowl series. While virtually all dwarven exploits described are performed by one Mulch Diggums, most of his Mary Sueness is excused as "dwarven racial talents." His spit can harden into a glowing substance that's strong enough to resist high speed impacts, he can fart hurricanes and shit cannonballs, he can dig a self sealing tunnel through any earth-like substance as fast as a man can run, drink water with his pores, use said pores like suction cups if he's thirsty, hear better than a stethoscope, and has tremorsense to at least a hundred feet. Dwarves are also described as having access to the fairy magic (Common uses include instant healing, invisibility, and mid-grade mind control), but Mulch gave that up to steal things instead. This despite no readily apparent level adjustment, nor any mention of useful powers before those same powers are necessary, puts this race quite firmly in this category.

* The Mandalorians in the Star Wars Expanded Universe, depending whose writing them. While good under the correct writers, under some of the bad ones (Hint, it involves Karen fucking Traviss), they compete with badly written expanded universe Jedi and Sith for the position of Star Wars' Ultrasmurfs. In the expanded universe ALL mandos are elite warrior mercenaries, skilled enough to take out armed enemies with their bare hands and usually packing enough fire power to level a building. They're so badass in fact that they're known to hunt Jedi for fucking sport because they're the only thing that'll give'm a real challenge. Experienced jedi hunters can be good enough to fight them head on despite all their force powers and saber swinging because they have the right gear and experience to counter it. Bear in mind that Mandos do not use the force in anyway. Karen Traviss also writes them with the Mary Sue trait of always being right and people agreeing with them for things they call the Jedi out for that they didn't even do, like create the clone army, and makes them out to be the pinnacle of civilization despite being warmongers with a history of allying with the Sith and trying to conquer the galaxy themselves.

** The most famous Mandalorian, Boba Fett, generally avoids becoming this trope and is just a plain badass (as a bonus he rarely if ever engages in the dick-stroking egomania of Traviss's Mandies), but under bad writers his badassitude can push into this. His father Jango Fett follows this same idea; in fact his origin story partly involves his old merc group of Mandalorians getting slaughtered by a group of Jedi in a moment that reads sort of like "fuck you Karen Traviss".

* [[Avatar|All Na'vi]]

* Smurfs. They're portrayed as a peace loving communist society that never has a conflict more dangerous than a family feud who have a ritual to maintain their immortality and are idealized to the point of ridiculousness. They're also friends with animals and never have to worry about being eaten even though they're the size of large mice.

* [[Twilight|Vampires in a certain book series]].

(More to be added later ''(sounds of crying editors)'')
[[Category:Mary Sue]]

List of Mary Sues

2017-07-23T16:33:11Z

2001:558:6045:E1:3103:9969:27C1:CAC3: /* Mary Sues Case Studies */

{{deletion|Totally subjective, half of these are just characters a random editor didn't like.}}

There are too fucking many [[Mary Sues]] in our games and fiction. We know it, and we love to complain about it, because it makes us feel a little better to call a spade a shovel. The original purpose of this list is to provide examples so the phenomenon can be studied, identified and as a result of the latter avoided.

(Note: please post Mary Sues in alphabetical order, so they don't fight about who's the better Mary-Sue. Also, this is about fictional characters, so while Canon Sues are acceptable, no real-life examples (even if there is such person named <s>Mary Sue AKA the Scientology founder's wife</s> I'm just adding that for fun). For the sake of peace, religious figures [and possibly mythological characters; particularly when they're from original mythologies] are real-life examples. Also, any characters added to the list without justifying reasons will be removed from this page. If you're going to add a race, please use the list below this one.

==Mary Sues Case Studies==

*[[Alice]] from the in-name-only ''Resident Evil'' movies: A character created for the movies, she has superpowers and is <s>presented as</s> ENTIRELY invincible. She manages to becomes an even bigger Sue when she loses said superpowers yet continues to obliterate armies unscathed. The film refuses to even let other characters do anything but get rescued by her, she's worse than characters written by Matthew Ward. The bitch is played by the director's wife; she's his perfect Mary Sue waifu insert and she's literally sleeping with him to get the job. Don't forget that she dual-wields katanas. And shotguns. And probably Desert Eagles, too.

*Andrew "Ender" Wiggin from Orson Scott Card's Enderverse, and a blatant (almost comical to a serious reader) example at that. What's worse: he only becomes more of this as the story and the books progress. It's even worse in the 2013 movie. At least the books gave the other characters more depth, Ender's feats took more time to achieve, and it contained some POV's that weren't of or about Ender.
** On that note, both of his siblings. Valentine, Ender's sister, is a self righteous prig who is only overshadowed by her obnoxious, sociopathic brothers. Peter, Ender's older brother, is a low functioning sociopath, [[What|but becomes intelligent enough that, as a child, he comes up with sophisticated political philosophies. As an adult, the prove so sophisticated that he's appointed Political Leader of Earth. Despite the fact that a sociopath with absolute power would become a dangerous tyrant as soon as someone refused to do what they say, he doesn't mess up and dies being hailed as a great ruler]]. Yes, this really happens.

*[[Batman]] in an unskilled author's hands. Because one of the effective DC editorial mandates is that Batman is not allowed to be truly defeated (he's usually too popular (and has a presence in too much of the DC Universe) to be allowed the downtime by editorial, unless it's part of a major storyline), a certain tendency for Batman to turn into a Mary Sue is well documented. That being said, there are many ways of adding dramatic tension to such a foregone conclusion situation, and the above mandate only includes actual defeat, so Batman is allowed to fail and make mistakes in certain situations, which also helps lessen the Bat-Sue Factor.

*[[Twilight|Bella Swan]]: Though she is a pretentious, manipulative, male-dependent, self-pitying downer who takes her parents for granted and makes no time for her friends, Bella is adored by all. Her first day of school is supposedly hard for her, despite the fact that every person she meets instantly presents her with a best friend badge, and/or falls in love with her. She's also clumsy EXCEPT when there's a moment where she'll die if she does something clumsy. Add being a painfully obvious author surrogate and even being the product of one of the author's dreams (S Meyer admitted that herself), "clumsy" Bella is the Mary Sue of her generation.

*Caius Ballad, the antagonist of ''Final Fantasy XIII-2''. Impractical overdesigned costume? Check. Impractical giant, overdesigned sword? Check. Purple hair? Check. Story-breaking powers? Check. Can't be beaten? Check. Openly called the most powerful ''Final Fantasy'' villain ever by his creator? Check. The only mitigating feature this fool has is that his English VA is Liam O'Brien.

*[[Cato Sicarius]]. Seriously this guy is Mary Sue's Mary Sue. He was born to a noble house on Talassar, trained with a sword as soon as he could hold one, inducted into the Ultramarines. He got commendation after commendation going from sergeant to company champion to Captain of the 2nd Company in several decades. He refined lightning assaults to near perfection and knows what to do after giving the battlefields a quick glance. He leads a company of mini Sues, each squad having some title for some great feat; their devastators having destroyed a titan, and a tactical squad that hasn't taken a casualty in close to 100 years. He is not only captain of the 2nd but "Master of the Watch", "Knight Champion of Macragge", "Grand Duke of Talassar", and "High Suzerain of Ultramar", seriously those last two titles are [[pretend|completely made up]]. He's a complete dick, valuing glory for himself and his company over all else, admitting to his men that he didn't care about planet Damnos when they were battling the Necrons over it (where he got his ass handed to him by a no-name Necron Lord). He also decided to appoint himself judge, jury, and executioner, to judge Uriel Ventris when he broke from the Codex, even though they're the same rank and only the Chapter Master has the right to do stuff like that. Oh yeah that reminds me, to top it all off most of the chapter thinks he's next in line to be Chapter Master, instead of Captain Agemman of the first company, even though he's got much (see fuck-tons) more experience than Sicarius. Add all that to the Mary Sue-ness of being a Space Marine and being in the Ultramarines and it reaches critical levels.

*Divis Mal from the RPG [[Aberrant]]. Oh, where to begin? Well, first of all on top of being the absolute, balls-out, most powerful Aberrant in the setting, ever, he's super smart, plans for everything, never loses ''no matter what the players do'', and has an ideology that can basically be described as "like Magneto, only ''right''. About ''everything.''" He's also in a loving relationship with a super-attractive partner who is ''also'' super-powerful, and his enemies are all stupid and happen to be straw-stuffed right-wing stereotypes because of course they are. He also serves as a thinly-veiled self-insert fanfic character for the lead game designer (a gay man with issues), and said designer once claimed that the title of the game referred to ''him specifically''. It was all the sequel game could do to take the piss out of all the problems he caused.

*Dr. Doom, depending on the writer. Worst case is he's written by somebody that forgets that he's a VILLAIN and depicts his rule over Latveria as unrealistically benign and makes it look like the superheroes are wrong for trying to keep him from taking over the world.

*[[Twilight|Edward Cullen]]: This character is the reason the popularity of vampires took a massive hit when the book came out. Possibly the most rage-inspiring aspect is he introduced the idea that vampires [[FAIL|SPARKLE HARMLESSLY LIKE DIAMONDS IN SUNLIGHT]]! He can read minds, is near impossible to kill, doesn't feed off humans despite his literal bloodlust except for criminals or "those who deserve to die", always fashionable and multi-talented. Despite being a textbook case of an emotionally abusive and controlling boyfriend to Bella, he's always treated as having the moral high ground... except when he refuses to make Bella a vampire, but that gets swept under the rug as soon as he changes his mind.

*[[Eldrad|Eldrad Ulthran]], and what's worse: he knows he is, and is a complete dick about it. Though he was recently imprisoned by his Craftworld for trying to help the Imperium and messing up Ynnead's ascension.

*Elizabeth from ''Bioshock Infinite''. Plot-sustaining power (the key to the whole plot literally rests in her hands), cannot be harmed, <s>makes a grown veteran of war look like an idiot child</s> only if you suck at the game... Regardless, she is routinely placed in easily escapable situations for the pure purpose of being saved when she can plausibly save herself, and makes none of the major (or minor) mistakes in the game. While some claim that she greatly dislikes violence, especially killing, she in fact killed a number of key characters in the game (Daisy Fitzroy, Dr. Pettifog & assistants, Songbird, Booker/Comstock). To make her comparable to Sues like Lightning and Alice, Ken Levin told the trolls who [[rule 34|34'd]] his perfect wife purpose, which result in a hilarious reverse psychology that gave Ken Levin [[promotions|what he wanted]].

*[[Elminster]], who is currently having a threesome with the goddess of magic and rad boobies and his adopted super-hot albino elf daughter while simultaneously beating the god of murder in a sword fight with one hand and the god of slavery in a magic fight with the other. Also, he's like a million years old and looks it. Ed Greenwood's self-insert character in the [[Forgotten Realms]], and a big source of "Why doesn't he just do this for us?" questions whenever he appears in questlines.

*Every author self-insert. Especially those found in high-school writing assignments.

*Green Lantern, especially Hal Jordan. All the human Green Lanterns are regularly shown to be the best Lanterns in the core because they ALL have either, indomitable willpower, skill, and courage, surpassing others who have been in the core for decades. Most other lanterns, exist only to be killed off as a means of showing how dangerous a threat is. They're only ever effective when they are helping the Human ones.

*Hoah from Shaman King. If there is any villain that can truly be called a Mary Sue, it's him, most other villains with this accusation still get defeated. Hoah not only proves invincible throughout the whole series, able to easily pull of feats that are impossible for everybody else, he also has the ability to revive himself if killed, meaning even if the heroes beat him, which they state is impossible in a straight-up fight, it would be pointless, because he'd just back even stronger. Worse is that he goes around saying how awful humans and everyone, even the writer, seems to agree with him because the series ends with him winning, only delaying his plans to kill humanity because reasons, and gets away with a number of atrocities that would make numerous the [[Warriors Of Chaos]] jealous.

*IG-88 in the ''Star Wars'' expanded universe, given that he easily breaks into the second Death Star and uploads his personality into it and takes control with nobody noticing, and before that single-handedly took over a planet.

*[[Twilight|Jacob Black]]: A werewolf from the Twilight franchise. He commits date rape on Bella (forcing a kiss), trolls the vampires and switches sides between the werewolves and the vampires without consequence. The worst part is when he [[FATAL|falls in love with Bella's and Edward's newborn daughter because of a vision, practicing wife husbandry on her as soon as she can walk and talk... and all the other characters are fine with this]]. The story also gushes about his looks to the point that the movie doesn't go five minutes without the character taking off his shirt and the camera focusing on his muscles.

*Jarod Shadowsong, [[World of Warcraft|World of Warcamp]]. Shoehorned into the setting in books "War of the Ancients" and "Wolfheart" written by Richard Knaak (Blizzard Entertainment's equivalent of [[Robin Cruddace|Robin Cruddace]]). Brother to canon character Maiev Shadowsong, love interest to Shandris Feathermoon, who is Tyrande's adopted daughter (both characters canon since WC3). His mere presence raises morale so much that people "automatically fight harder and obey him with greater swiftness". Survives a one-on-one fight against Archimonde, a demon lord who can destroy cities single-handedly, and DEMIGODS place themselves under his command! He spends thousands of years after the first fight against the Burning Legion resting on his laurels and doesn't show up when they invade the second time, but no-one calls him out on this in-universe.

*[[James Bond]]. To what degree varies, but the Roger Moore version is the worst offender: he's unbeatable at just about everything, a ladies' man to an unrealistic degree (even lesbians and villains who stand for everything he opposes switch sides after a dicking from Bond, not to mention that time he had sex with a lesbian it was questionable whether she consented...not that the story would punish Bond for possible rape), implausibly intelligent, a crack shot, and basically unkillable. In the books, he is an unlikable git and an alcoholic, yet still gets shit done.

*Jigsaw from the ''Saw'' films. Pick any character you know of with a long list of skills or attributes, this guy has more, and he keeps getting away for a half dozen movies.

*Jon Snow (especially the show version): While this is in the books as well, it is more evident in the show and he is currently dying from a mutiny in the books. Being a bastard is a bad thing in Westeros so he gets sent to the wall, but it's uphill from there. He gets a Valyrian steel blade (which is incredibly rare and an heirloom of noble houses) in his first week. He has a pet Direwolf puppy like his siblings, but of course his looks unique. From here he gets named as squire and successor to the commander of the Night's Watch (though this does cause some resentment among his peers). Later on he meets Wildings where he spares one who turns out to be a woman; it's obvious where this goes... they don't get along, they fall in love, have sex and spend some time together, something forces them apart and she dies. She also has red hair, which stands out because among Wildings its considered lucky. While he gets stabbed like in the books, in the show he dies from it then gets resurrected by Melisandre/the Lord of Light. He's revealed to be the bastard child of Rhaegar Targereyn and Lyanna Stark, making him Westeros' rightful king as well as beating Ramsay Bolton (see below); that's right, Jon's so Mary Sue his plot armor trumps the plot armor of another Mary Sue (to be fair, though, he was actually on the verge of loosing the big battle to Ramsay right up until the moment his ass gets saved by his little sister and about four thousand mounted knights.) While some of the earlier traits don't necessarily equal a Mary Sue, they add up... oh, they add up (at least Tyrion and Dany suffer lasting consequences that balance out their out-of-the-ordinary awesomeness).

*Kai Leng, from ''[[Mass Effect|Mass Effect 3]]''. You're constantly told he's a badass assassin, but when he shows up, Shepard's crew suddenly become drooling idiots so Leng can strut about, act tough, and monologue. He brags about killing Thane (alien assassin squadmate from the previous game) even though the latter was hobbled by a terminal illness requiring daily medical care and Thane ''STILL'' got the drop on Kai Leng; Thane even says himself "That other assassin should be embarrassed. A terminally-ill Drell kept him from reaching his target." When you "win" the "fight" against him on Thessia, he still gets away, utterly unaffected by the crumbling architecture that stops Shepard from pursuing him. By the end of the fight, you've advanced the plot a grand total of nowhere, regurgitated information you already have, and been hamstrung as a player because the writer wants his character to look cool. He is yet another antagonist dropped onto a story filled with them, but is nothing more than a costume, sword, and book of one-liners. Unlike Saren from ME1, we have no connection with this douchebag because the story doesn't give him enough screen time to develop into anything.

*[[Kaldor Draigo]].

*Kalecgos (AKA Kalec), blue dragon who can disguise himself as a human-elf hybrid; from [[World of Warcraft|World of Warcrabs]]. Ham-fistedly inserted into the Blood Elves' redemption story arc as an enabler. Later he takes over the blue dragonflight even though he's not the oldest, wisest or most powerful blue dragon. Later he hooks up with Jaina Proudmoore, a powerful human mage/noblewoman/faction leader introduced in Warcraft III. She does this in spite of their vast age difference (which made her reject an Elven prince who loved her).

*[[Fist of the North Star|Kenshiro]], nothing can kill him and he's morally flawless, superior to everyone-fucking-else. At least until Shin Saga in the anime, where he starts fucking up often, even with his super kung-fu laser ninja powers. Most battles are curb-stomps until later on because ''it's a fucking show from the 80's''. Do note, however, that Kenshiro loses a ''lot,'' especially later on, and mostly wins his hardest battles because he's the only one worth a shit left alive by that point in the series.

*Kratos from ''[[God of War]]''. He curb-stomps fucking gods due to [[plot armor]] (and because one of them decided to give a bloody psychopath the powers of a god; MENSA applicant right there) and he has threesomes with complete strangers, even though he is meant to be grieving for the death of his family that he himself murdered. Oh and the rules for how death works change whenever it's convenient for him.

*Krasus (AKA Korialstraz) from [[World of Warcraft|World of Warcrack]] <s>(noticing a trend yet?)</s>, mainly due to the author's overuse of him. An elf who's secret identity is he's really a dragon, and one of the oldest living dragons. One of the leaders of the Kirin Tor. Consort/Adviser of the Dragon Queen, he might as well be the Dragon King considering how much importance she puts on him. He also gets sent back in time to partake of a historical event despite the fact HIS YOUNGER SELF WAS AROUND IN THAT TIME. He also set up another Mary Sue in Warcraft, Rhonin (NOTE; both characters were created by the same author).

*Lightning from ''Final Fantasy 13'', she is basically a pink-haired Cloud without any of Cloud's likable personality traits. She's currently the NEW AND ASTONISHING HEAVENLY Valkyrie that fights a purple Sephiroth in her new game "Lightning's Return". Not that we care, but she was created by Motomu Toriyama (Matt Ward's Japanese cousin), a man with a Chris-Chan-like persona and Matthew Ward-style writing who is now continuously raping the franchise. He has a waifu love for Lightning like Paul has for Alice. Lightning is comparable to Alice on many levels, which says a lot, really. She also has tons of fucking DLC "costumes" dedicated to her so the player could dress her up and fap her to death. This is so fucking shameful that I'm crazy enough to believe Alice is a much capable heroine. Somebody kill me, please. Oh, just recently, Toriyama decided to have Lightning become a guest character in a future Final Fantasy. So not only is the franchise gonna suffer the rotting Emperor syndrome, but Lightning is now the literal goddess of every Final Fantasy game? Seriously, have you ever seen Paul doing such disgusting things with Alice? Like forcing Alice into an actual ''Resident Evil'' game (well, the ''Resident Evil'' franchise is dead as well)? Motomu Toriyama is officially worse than Paul Anderson!!
** Gets worse: Toriyama has stated that Lighting is the "first" strong female character in any ''Final Fantasy'', which ignores dozens of better-written female characters, some of which he himself has written, the "strong" meaning just physical doesn't work either since FF7's Tifa (a game he worked on, btw) can punch tanks to death.

*Magneto has the INSANE potential to become this when crappy writers start taking his sympathetic traits too far ("Hey guys, let's [[What|make Magneto a member of the X-Men and have him date Rogue]]!") Hell, he sometimes becomes this even when he's a horribly despicable villain. Jeph Loeb's raping of the Ultimate Universe known as "Ultimatum" has him use his magnetic powers to nearly destroy the world just by waving his hands at Earth's magnetic poles (completely breaking the laws of physics in the process) and then effortlessly take on half the X-Men and almost all of the Ultimates singlehandedly and nearly win.

*[[Marneus Calgar]], especially post-Ward. Killing an Avatar of Khaine by punching its chest in and not getting seriously hurt in said fight with one. An Avatar of Khaine is supposed to be as hard to kill as a Bloodthirster, something that takes a Primarch or a Bio-titan to beat in a one-on-one fight (then again, Games Workshop loves [[Worf|worfing]] Avatars, and Space Marines are their Creator's Pet). Calgar had his arms and legs chopped off by the Swarmlord, which didn't kill him due to Plot Armor, and he leads the Ultramarines, themselves considered a Mary Sue chapter in a Mary Sue faction (see the Space Marine entry on this page). These are just the first few examples.

*Master Chief from the ''[[Halo]]'' series is definitely one. For one, he has [[Matt Ward|Ward-grade]] [[Heresy|plot armor]]. Seriously, it was repeated throughout the games that he was born with the word [[What|'''LUCK''']]. To further expand on his Sueness, this 7-foot tall hunk of raging Leprechaun saved the entire Galaxy ''Twice!'', single-handedly stopped the Human-Covie War at the last minute, escaped and defeated an entire race of "Super-Space-Zombie-Fungus" that could mindfuck Culture-tier Civilizations without [[What|having his own brain being raped]], is one of the last surviving SPARTAN II's, solo an entire legion of Covenant Honor-Guards (Which are like Spacemarine Captain levels) as well as successfully assassinating a very important Covie leader protected by said Guards without being captured, survived escaping an Exterminatus-level explosion that destroyed a Super-Weapon 'Ring' by ''out-flying it'', somehow his armor is strong enough to deflect Fuel-Rod shots (Which are essentially Plasma Cannons), destroy a flying and mentally psychotic lightbulb with an overcharged Lascannon as a Self-Defence weapon (To be fair 343 Guilty Spark ''is'' a Forerunner Janitor Robot), and did I mention he saved the entire Galaxy ''twice''? Furthermore with the release of Halo 4, MC is now magically gifted the genes and DNA by the Librarian to become full on [[RAGE|''impervious to a fucking Forerunner Super-Weapon/Death-Beam'']], which allows him to single-handedly fight through the insides of a very important Forerunner Capital Ship filled with Necron/Warp-Spiders kill bots and somehow through the act of plot, [[Derp|defeat ''the'' highest ranked Forerunner Military General that has the power to solo the entire Galactic Empire from Star Wars.]] I mean [[Rage|WTF!]] did the developers of Halo not realize that they just created a character with plot-armor so powerful that they make the likes of [[Kaldor Draigo]] look decent in comparison? Thankfully however, as pants-on-head retarded as some of the feats listed for MC are, he at least has some faults such as being psychologically raped in childhood, doesn't have the "Morally Superior to thou" personality and has a very grim view of the war, almost got killed by the killer space popcorn, being rather mediocre for a SPARTAN II when compared to his other colleagues, is only good in leadership and even then made some stupid mistakes, gets pretty beaten the fuck up by a Brute, his Superhuman abilities only stopped when fighting against low-ranked Elites and know he will lose against one if he fought one-by-one, and most of the battles he has been through had almost cost him his life. Those faults listed are what makes good old Chiefy ''NOT'' in the top 10 most powerful Mary-Sues and makes him somewhat tolerable albeit boring compared to the other listed.

*[[Captain Matthias Ward]], I am the better Mary-Sue.

*Mordenkainen (Gary Gygax's personal avatar in the Greyhawk setting and a level 30 wizard who never fucking ages past 50 despite being a hundred fucking years old without turning into a lich, he became bald for some reason, which makes him look evil, but he remains stupid neutral).

*Olympia Vale, another character from the [[Halo]] Series and seems to be all around taking over the mantle of Mary Sue from Master Chief as he is pushed in the sidelines like an old man being pushed in the old folks home. Whilst Locke has been accused for being a rather bland and forgettable copycat cutout of the original MC, he still pales in comparison to that of Vale. Essentially imagine Vale as MC but remove the sociopathic and borderline mentally damaged aspects of John 117, make her a prodigy even beyond that of Spartan recruits which in turn made her pretty easy to integrate in the SPARTAN IV program and make her instantly learn the language of the Elites whilst by herself in space with the only excuse being that [[Bullshit|'she was bored'.]] Vale and to an extent, the majority of the SPARTAN IV's seem to be an ongoing campaign from Karen Traviss (AKA the Destroyer of Fluff and Halo's Matt Ward) [[Derp|to further demonize Halsey and her SPARTAN II program]] for no better reason other than being forced to be [[Fail|unethical in an organization as ethically sound as the]] [[Inquisition|Imperial Inquisition.]] As you can imagine, this has already spurred some [[Skub|ire bitching]] in the Halo community and only time will tell if newer sequels from the game would flash her character out in a more decent or obscene matter.

*Ozymandias, AKA, Adrian Alexander Veidt from ''Watchmen''. Born into a wealthy family (then threw it all away and earned even more money), perfect athlete, good-looking, smartest man in the world (He mind fucked Dr. Manhattan, a blueish godlike superhuman), and a vegetarian. The only downside he had is loneliness, since he had betrayed all his friends and killed the only companion in his life, a fucking genetically-engineered female lynx named Bubastis, by having her bait Dr. Manhattan to the incinerator and killed them both with a switch. Still, Ozymandias is perfect because Mary Sue don't need friends. It was also portrayed that his "common enemy" scheme to stop World War 3 (which involved killing millions) in a positive or at least sympathetic light. He also grabbed the bullet fired by Silk Spectre. Interesting to note that he the idol he worships: Alexander of Macedonia, is a man born before Christ, and the name Ozymandias is reference to a freaking [[Necron|Egyptian pharaoh: Ramses II]], proving that Adrian is just as egoistic as [[Dante]] and the [[Ultramarines]] by have the name of an ancient ruler as his own nickname. Hell, his color page on "before the watchman" made him looked like some sort of floating Jesus!!

*The [[Primarch]]s <s>and their [[Warhammer High|daughters]].</s>{{BLAM|'''THOSE WORDS ARE BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!! /tg/ can only create perfection!'''}}

*Prometheus (the DC supervillain) certainly didn't ''start'' as this but ended up being twisted into one. When first introduced he was a genuinely cool and intimidating supervillain whose insane skill and manipulations were balanced out by his crippling mental issues (which the heroes exploited to take him down). Unfortunately, writers who weren't as skilled as Grant Morrison got their paws on him and made him ludicrously overpowered to the point where he single-handedly ''destroyed Star City, killing Roy Harper's daughter in the process''. Thus Prometheus went from an awesome member of Batman's rogue gallery to a complete waste of pages. Thankfully he was prevented from becoming any worse thanks to Green Arrow putting an arrow through the bastard's skull.

*Ramsay Bolton (show version): Oh good fucking God, where to start with this particular Villain Sue? Well, for one, he manages to take on twenty of the best Ironborn warriors, who were all heavily armed and armored, while COMPLETELY SHIRTLESS, a bit tired from a vigorous sex session with his show version only girlfriend, and armed with nothing but a kitchen knife and a mace, and SOMEHOW kicks their asses. Then, much later, he is shown to completely annihilate the battle-hardened Stormlander army led by Stannis Baratheon, the greatest military commander in Westeros, with nothing but cavalry, while the previous episodes had established that Ramsay is a tactically inept moron. (This can also tie in with the fact that the writers of the show seriously fucked over Stannis from "stern-but-honorable competent tactical genius" into "greedy, fanatical moron"). Finally, he is constantly shown to get his way no matter how stupidly contrived it seems to the viewer, arguably the worst case being marrying and deflowering Sansa Stark by raping her and getting the killing blow on fan-favorite giant Wun-Wun. His Sueness ends with his face getting caved in by Jon and fed to his own hounds by Sansa.

*Revan, from ''Knight of the Old Republic''. Classic [[Star Wars]] Mary Sue, but done in such a way that we still think he's awesome, achieved way more than nearly any other SW character ever did: ''single-handedly'' won the Mandalorian Wars ''(according to Canderous Ordo)'', then became Dark Lord of the Sith, then ''very nearly'' defeated the Republic in such a way to [[Just as Planned|not leave it a smoldering ruin]], then suffered cliche amnesia and still managed to ''remaster'' the Force, going from Padawan to Jedi Master in a couple of weeks and then won the Jedi Civil War, THEN got his memories back and managed to combine his Jedi/Sith powers enough to not give a fuck about anything. Was said to be one of the best lightsaber duelists ever, a champion swoop racer, and capable of manufacturing awesome ''(see HK-47)'' droids. The only person he couldn't defeat was the Sith Emperor of the time who had absorbed the Force energies of entire planets, yet STILL managed to keep him at bay mentally for 400 years until SW:TOR.

*Rey AKA Ma-Rey Sue from the new Disney trilogy of [[Star Wars]]. Like Olympia Vale from [[Halo]], Rey has only been in one movie insofar so she has an excuse that later sequels would flash out her character more. However, even then she has already caught some backlash among the old guards of Star Wars who view her as a self-insert Mary Sue with a feminist agenda. Pushing aside from politics, accusations on why she is an insufferable Mary Sue spans from her immediately knowing how to fly the Millennium Falcon despite being a scavenger who should have no pilot experience, knowing more about the inner workings on [[What|''said'' Millennium Falcon then Han Solo and Chewbacca]] (You know, the guys who flew the ship for half their god damned lives), knowing how to [[Derp|speak and understand Wookie]] despite no evidence or mention that she could, being all of a sudden a [[Wat|powerful Force user who can resist the mind tricks of a trained Jedi-turned-Sith apprentice]] despite no previous mention of her being a Force sensitive, [[Bullshit|performing said Jedi mind trick almost immediately after learning she is a Force Sensitive]] despite the fact that performing a Jedi mind tricks is known to be difficult to master, learning how to be a [[Herp|ridiculous crack shot of a Blaster Pistol]] immediately after being given by Han Solo with no mention on any military training and [[Fail|kicking a pretty powerful Force User in the ass that has been trained in the lightsaber far longer that she is]] (To be fair, Kylo Ren was shot by Chewbacca's Bowcaster which can make people fly ten feet of the air). As you can imagine, this created a [[Skub|shitstorm of untold proportion]] not seen since the likes of Chewbacca being killed back in Legends material.

*Rhonin, archmage of the Kirin Tor, [[World of Warcraft|World of Warcrap]]. Richard Knaak is Blizzard Entertainment's Matt Ward, and Rhonin is Knaak's [[Kaldor Draigo]]. He makes up a new member of the famous Windrunner family just so Rhonin can boast being connected to these legendary elves in Warcraft. They have half-elf kids who are blessed by dragons despite the fact they've done nothing to earn it (the player characters have done more, but they don't get anything like that; just a few trinkets that will be rendered obsolete by the next expansion). Even the name Rhonin is just the title "Rōnin" (referring to a Samurai with no master during Japan's feudal period) with a few changes to anglicize the name (and, of course, the character doesn't even look Japanese). He gets sent back in time to partake in the first fight against the Burning Legion for no other reason than Knaak wanted Rhonin to be there. He does practically nothing in the game, yet everyone says he's a great hero; even then, he didn't do half the things they praise him for.

*Richard, from the Sword of Truth series (he's not as bad in the TV series). He is always considered an ideal hero despite being cruel, sociopathic, and thinking that the universe should bend over backwards for him [[What|(which it actually does).]] Everyone who disagrees with him is evil (even if that's the only reason they're considered a villain) or turns evil. Gratuitous rape is thrown in by the author as a cheap way to make him look better (making villains as reprehensible as possible doesn't solve the problem of the protagonist being completely un-heroic).

*Richard B. Riddick, from the Riddick universe. Vin Diesel's personal self-insert. Didn't start out as a Mary Sue though, going from a sensible power level ''(where a fist-fight with a morphine-addicted merc is reasonably fair)'' and dubious morality that you just had to love. Later becoming ''(particularly amongst the directors cuts)'' a superpowered badass who can single-handedly take on squads of soldiers with a knife, resist soul sucking, commune with animals and make threats with [[Just as Planned]] modes of killing. ''("kill you with my teacup" / "dead in 5 seconds")'', oh... he can also explode as shown in the director's cuts and off-screen in the video games. His later portrayals also show his morality becoming a "told you so" mentality, where, when people die it's really because they are the assholes and nothing to do with Riddick.

*Selene, from the 'Underworld' movies. Throughout the series, she bears several similarities to [[Alice]]; both are experts with weapons, both have superior biology to their respective species (humans for Alice, Vampires for Selene), both kill their way through swarms of enemies without getting a scratch, both have little regard for their source material, and both are played by the wives of the directors of their respective film series.

*Sonichu, made by [[Chris-Chan|you-know-who]].

*Squirrel Girl from Marvel Comics. Played entirely for laughs: Doreen Grey is a [[Mutant]] teenage girl with Spider-Man levels of strength/speed/agility, can grow bone knuckles, can talk to squirrels (and have them do her bidding) and has the ability to defeat any villain she wants off-screen. This includes big-name villains like Doctor Doom (she beat him in his first appearance and several times afterwards), Ego the Living Planet (who is, like his name suggests, a planet, meaning that a teenage girl beat up a planet), Thanos (who is one of the biggest badasses of the Marvel Universe, but the writers saved his face by replacing him in this instance with a perfect copy of him), Deadpool (whom she calls the mean, mean man; he's actually scared of her), M.O.D.O.K. and tons of other people. She was once part of a C-list superhero team, but quit because she thought she was holding them back (which she was entirely correct about: she once apologized to them for being late because she had to beat a 100' space dragon) and left for Marvel's Nexus of the Multiverse: New York. Despite her unapologetic Mary Sue-ness the fans love her and see her as the one spot of light in the otherwise relentlessly [[grimdark]] Marvel Universe.

*Superman in the hands of a poor writer. He is morally perfect, one of the strongest beings in the DC universe, and his one weakness that's supposed to kill him never works <s>ex: he lifts an entire continent of Kryptonite after being stabbed by a dagger made of it</s> thankfully ''Superman Returns'' had so many plotholes that ''Man of Steel'' declared it all non-canon. The only way to nerf him is to have Batman beside him, because Superman always becomes a dumbass when Batman is around (go watch DCAU Justice League to see for yourself).

*Sylvanas Windrunner from [[World of Warcraft]]: Started out as a Fantasy counterpart for Sarah Kerrigan, she's been turning into Fantasy Hitler/Mengele. She sets up the Undercity as a fortress/Horde-run concentration camp for Alliance captives, and has free reign of atrocities ranging from slavery to genocide. Her Royal Apothecary kidnapped innocents to experiment upon under her watch, torturing them for fun and science. She was under suspicion for the Wrathgate Incident (she knew about the plague, but not that it would be used on the Horde too), invaded Gilneas, nuked Southshore, waged a torture-filled genocidal campaign on the Humans, manipulated the Horde (to join them in the first place in order to use them as tools), built a Cult of Personality around herself, employed the Val'kyr (which seems to be a case of "Even Chaos has standards" when seen by pragmatic Death Knight Thassarian), resurrected those who she killed against their will despite not liking when it happened to her, shot and killed Liam Greymane then taunted his father Genn about it, attempted to steal the Scythe of Elune to enslave the Worgen to expand her personal army and made some kind of deal with the devil to get the Val'kyr in the first place. The closest she got to any kind of punishment was Lor'thermar threatening to kill her if she raised the Horde's dead as Forsaken, stating he'd leave her to the Alliance if she tried it on their dead and calling her out on several of her actions in Mists of Pandaria. In Legion, after retreating from the Broken Shore on Vol'jin's death, the crowning moment of Mary Suedom occurs when she ends up being named the next Warchief of the Horde with Vol'jin's dying words. Mary Sue reason? She never suffers any ''(literally, ANY)'' setback except Greymane ruining her Val'kyr agenda. All her atrocities and horrors are ignored into heroism, and what's worse, she automatically pulls out the next phase of her agenda out of her ass, and her Forsaken, despite horrendous losses and ban on raising unwilling dead, somehow destroys each and everything innocent around her...only for her to get raised of Warchief status. This issue is compounded by the fact that Sylvanas has a very vocal fanbase and she's the Creator Pet of one of Blizzard's lead writers, David Kosak.

*Tauriel, Peter Jackson's special snowflake from ''The Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug'' (a Mary Sue in something related to Tolkien; [[Tolkien|Beren and Luthien are deep and well-written enough to get a pass]], this is a sad day). Not content with pissing on the established characters and story from the book (i.e. the Barrel-escape from Thranduil's castle is changed, Smaug is much less intelligent than he is in the book...), Peter also adds unnecessary and over-the-top new characters. Tauriel's ridiculously skilled at fighting (even for an elf) and has healing powers. According to all of Tolkien's books, only a select few elves can heal people such as Lord Elrond Half-Elven, wielder of one of the three Elven Rings of Power and a direct descendant of the Kings of the Noldor; all things which Tauriel lacks. In addition, she's ship-teased with canon-characters Legolas (who never appears, or even gets mentioned, in the book) and Kili.

*Thrall, the (in)famous Orc Warchief from ''[[Warcraft]]''. Started out cool in WC3 as an Orc orphan raised in a human internment camp who escaped with help from a friend, he led the Orcs because he was the former Warchief's son and a powerful but not story-breaking shaman. By having his forces fight alongside the trolls and Tauren he made allies. Though he fucked up by sending Grommash to collect resources from Ashenvale (antagonizing the Night Elves, giving the demons an opportunity to corrupt the Orcs and leading to the death of a demigod who would've been a great help against the Burning Legion), though with a lot of help from some allies and another demi-god he sets things right. In the Cataclysm expansion for World of Warcramps, he became Azeroth's premiere shaman and leader of half the world while appointing the <s>[[Skub|VERY CONTROVERSIAL]]</s> <s>balls to the wall violent and universally hated</s> patriotic warmonger Garrosh Hellscream as Warchief of the Horde; despite the protests of several others ''including Garrosh himself'' (who was uncertain he could handle the responsibility of such a role at the time). Takes over as Aspect of Earth from a borderline demigod, and even deals a crippling blow to him when he's empowered by the Old Gods. Even people that were fans of him during Warcraft III have started to get sick of him.

*[[Star Trek|Wesley Crusher]]. Originating from the same franchise as the original Mary Sue, Wesley is a very young ensign training to be an officer in Starfleet, where he's earned the admiration of many of the bridge officers. He became something of a protege to Captain Picard, who was impressed by Wesley after he showed that he had learned all the controls at the captain's chair when they first met. <s>While not morally perfect or incorruptible Wesley is as close as he can be in most cases</s> He's only moral by Gene Roddenberry's standards ''(which were messed up beyond belief, the man thought it was okay to be a prima donna director to a point that made even Stanley Kubrick and James Cameron look tame but not for children to grieve over dead loved ones, and that's not getting into his corporate shyster practices, anti-religious prejudices and sexism; seriously we're not making any of that up)'', by a normal person's, he's smug and egocentric, along with his [[Deus Ex Machina]] techno skills, which are shown off by making the rest of the crew look useless. He notably also gets the Enterprise into danger before getting it out of it, and never gets called out for it. Many people thought that he was an insufferable little shit, among them Wil Wheaton (the actor who PLAYED the guy).
** Interestingly, Captain Kirk himself is something of a Mary Sue; Roddenberry himself practically outright stated he wanted the show to have that ambiance that Kirk, as his Author Avatar, could have any woman he desired.

*Uriel Ventris - despite initially coming off as a subversion of Wardian Ultramarines-are-the-best Mary Sue bullshit, he quickly devolves into [[Skub|Ultramarines are the worst unless they use the Codex to wipe their asses and act like Space Wolves]] - which is pretty much limited to - guess who? - McNeill's OC-Do-Not-Steal Special Snowflake Ventris.

*[[Loli|Young main characters]] in crappy [[Asians|Japanese]] [[anime|animes]] and [[manga]].

*Judging from the rest of the list, [[Skub|any character you don't like.]]

==Mary Sue Races==
While not every member of a race is a Mary Sue, [[Chakat|with one or two exceptions]], sometimes whole races are considered Mary Sues because they have huge amounts of plot armor and are idealized beyond reason. They were put here as the Mary Sue list was originally conceived for characters. Also, please list them in alphabetical order.

* Although some might find this as [[Skub|arguable,]] the characteristics describing the Asari race in [[Bioware|Mass Effect]] are blatantly Mary-Sue. Although not every Asari is a Mary Sue (though some are), when it comes to the general race as a whole, oh boy does their 'Sueness' reach Chakat levels. Examples on what makes them a Mary Sue includes having the second longest lifespan behind the Krogan (over 1000 years, plus they lack the Krogans violent nature which can easily waste their long lifespans), all of them are biotic users, every one in the game is intelligent, founders of the council, considered sexy by many other species despite being a monogendered species (even Salarians, who lack a sex drive and mate by necessity), and are deliberately oversexualised by the developers so they can be [[Rule 34|Rule 34'ed to death]]. Their race as a whole is portrayed as peace loving hippies, the best diplomats, the most respected species in the galaxy as well as having a serious case of "Holier/Morally Superior then thou" attitude. Their ship the "Destiny Ascension" is the largest and most powerful ship in the Citadel fleet and their ships perversely resemble a lady privates because you know they all look like "wominz". Thessia, their homeworld, is regarded as the "jewel" of the galaxy as well as having the largest amount of Eezo which partially explains how their entire race is biotics. Any asari can 'Read' most people's minds and inner-thoughts with near complete-accuracy, though only if that person agrees to it (they can literally mindfuck you). Furthermore with their way of reproduction, since they are monogendered (Meaning their all female) a lot of newcomers in Mass Effect start to scratch their heads on how they manage to get each other pregnant without any physical evidence of having a dick (Although one of the hypothesis is that they might actually screw around with the local fauna AKA Bestiality). However the fluff states this as Parthenogenesis, for those that don't know what it is, think of them as chickens....which is actually hilarious if you seriously put the comparison in context. Another odd thing about their reproduction is that somehow the Asari have the capability of getting pregnant from just about '''''Anyone'''''. [[Chakat|Do those traits sound fucking familiar to you?]] So all in all, not only are they a holy (unholy?) fusion of a smurf, elf and a monster girl, but they also commit in sweaty Lesbian/Bestiality/Xenoality orgies with almost everyone, turning the Asari race into nothing more then a giant Whorehouse for Aliens and Humans to fap in a hundred dozen ways and yet they are still ''okay'' with that....<s>Slaneesh approve of this!</s> {{BLAM|'''''BLAM! BLAM! DOUBLE HERESY!'''''}} But to be fair, at least Asari aren't [[Avatar|furries]] or physical [[Chakat|hermaphrodites]].

** Amusingly enough, the third game reveals that the only reason Asari are so much more advanced than the other races is because the Protheans (the super-advanced precursor race) were deliberately manipulating them and sneaking tech to them in their ancient history in order to give them a boost (such as genetically engineering them to be a race of skilled biotics and [[STC|leaving instruction manuals on how to create all sorts of advanced technology and deal with the other races in their "beacons"]]). The hope was that if they were given enough a headstart, the Asari would be able to unite and lead the other races to victory against the Reapers (in other words, they were deliberately ''trying'' to make the Asari Mary Sues in order to give the next cycle an advantage over the Reapers). Instead the Asari kept that knowledge to themselves and used it to become the most powerful race in the galaxy. When the Reapers showed up, the Asari buried their heads in the sand like the smurf elf pussies they are on their homeworld, leaving the other races to fend for themselves, than promptly got their asses kicked by the Reapers (Which they probably deserved it for being such [[Eldar|self-righteous and selfish cockbags]]). Perhaps one of the few instances of a Mary Sue being both invoked and subverted.

*[[Angry Marines]]. When was the last time YOU heard of an Angry Marine LOSING? Thought not.

*The [[Drow]] from [[Drowtales]]. Seriously just reading the main page on why they are a bunch of insufferable Mary Sues is enough to make any [[Neckbeard]] to combust into flames by pure [[RAGE]]. Read it, and despair.

* ALL [[Chakat|Chakats!]] The entire fucking race are distilled and purified Mary Sues, sometimes warping stories they are even mentioned in passing. Not just [[monstergirls|feline-centaur]] [[/d/|dick-girls]](Sick Fucks), they're also each master psionicists with faster-than-light mind-reading, able to cure deep neurotic complexes with a good deep dickin', strongest and most stable form of 'Taurs', considered as the most "beautiful thing in the universe" despite looking exactly like lions with the fact that they have dicks, morally perfect to the extreme, nobody technically hates them, their breast milk can turn the most feeble human into mini-Arnold Schwarzeneggers and every non-Chakats seem to have a unnatural and unhealthy lifestyle on trying to "Do it" with them. Despite the fact that there are hundreds of ''other'' Catgirls outside of this furfag heresy, that are more attractive, cuter and prettier then them with the added benefit that they are actually female, not hermaphrodite abominations.

* [[Elf|Elves]] are often portrayed this way in fiction, though there are exceptions and it's becoming rarer for elves to be portrayed as Mary Sues. A lot of their sueness comes from how idealized they are. They're always beautiful, sometimes even without making an effort, either immortal or have very long lifespans and can only die from violence. They're often considered to have the moral high ground yet also be condescending to the younger races, but the elves contempt kept getting justified in some stories. Some have the natural ability to make anything beautiful from even the most base materials, naturally have great magical ability, and are often favored by their gods. However, there are evil elves in fiction and some elves who are morally good without being Mary Sues.

*[[Doctor Who|Whoverse Humanity]] takes this up to a 100 million in this case. Depending on the timeline, Humanity not only manage to become the dominant ruler of the multi-galaxy not once, but [[What|'''Five Fucking Times!''']] Without any indication on how they manage to conquer the Galaxy, thriving with hostile Aliens that could LOLStomp the Necrons, Eldar and Imperium ''combined''. Furthermore not only are they one of the [[Imperium of Man|most numerous species in the Universe,]] but also one of the most adaptable and longest lasting race, as seen when they are one of the [[Grimdark|few species still alive near the end of the fucking Universe.]] To give you an idea on how fucking ludicrous Humanity got within Doctor Who, in just 500 years from present day, Humanity was already a major force in the Galaxy ([[Star Trek|Compare this to most Sci-Fi timelines]] [[Bioware|where Humanity either just started to explore their surroundings]] [[Halo|or already establish a small and insignificant area]]), as well as having weapons that could make [[Strike Legion]] seem useless in comparison, and when you take note on how short the timeline distance is between the present day and the end of the Universe, it just makes you say to yourself....the Fuck? Compare this to say [[Star Wars]] in which they have the excuse of not knowing how long Humanity has been space traveling, or [[WH40K]] where the thousands of years gap of slow progress before the Warp Drive was invented seem much more plausible then this absurd scenario. You know Humanity is a Mary Sue when even the near-death of the Universe can't kill them off....until a certain Dues Ex Machina appeared. To be fair, they only gain their Sueness momentum when a certain Time Lord keep on foiling the plans of countless Aliens attempting to conquer and crush humanity in various stages in time; either that or because the Doctor has a unusually unhealthy Humanophile fetish. They are probably one of the few examples of a "Accidental Mary Sue", in which the Doctor, with his fancy Time gizmos and intellect, unintentionally guided Humanity to such power levels by either saving their asses from certain doom or altering the timeline so they won't fuck up, due to his love of Humans. Granted Whoverse Humanity is definitely far from morally perfect (A substantial amount of Whoverse villains are Humans and the multiple Human Empires itself are morally questionable at best), the main point of contention is how influentially powerful they are for such a young race while at the same time, disregarding other more ancient and more powerful races (Silurian, Cybermen, Sontarian, Ice Warriors, etc) that should be the one having more galactic screen time and hegemony then them.

* Dwarves as seen in the Artemis Fowl series. While virtually all dwarven exploits described are performed by one Mulch Diggums, most of his Mary Sueness is excused as "dwarven racial talents." His spit can harden into a glowing substance that's strong enough to resist high speed impacts, he can fart hurricanes and shit cannonballs, he can dig a self sealing tunnel through any earth-like substance as fast as a man can run, drink water with his pores, use said pores like suction cups if he's thirsty, hear better than a stethoscope, and has tremorsense to at least a hundred feet. Dwarves are also described as having access to the fairy magic (Common uses include instant healing, invisibility, and mid-grade mind control), but Mulch gave that up to steal things instead. This despite no readily apparent level adjustment, nor any mention of useful powers before those same powers are necessary, puts this race quite firmly in this category.

* The Mandalorians in the Star Wars Expanded Universe, depending whose writing them. While good under the correct writers, under some of the bad ones (Hint, it involves Karen fucking Traviss), they compete with badly written expanded universe Jedi and Sith for the position of Star Wars' Ultrasmurfs. In the expanded universe ALL mandos are elite warrior mercenaries, skilled enough to take out armed enemies with their bare hands and usually packing enough fire power to level a building. They're so badass in fact that they're known to hunt Jedi for fucking sport because they're the only thing that'll give'm a real challenge. Experienced jedi hunters can be good enough to fight them head on despite all their force powers and saber swinging because they have the right gear and experience to counter it. Bear in mind that Mandos do not use the force in anyway. Karen Traviss also writes them with the Mary Sue trait of always being right and people agreeing with them for things they call the Jedi out for that they didn't even do, like create the clone army, and makes them out to be the pinnacle of civilization despite being warmongers with a history of allying with the Sith and trying to conquer the galaxy themselves.

** The most famous Mandalorian, Boba Fett, generally avoids becoming this trope and is just a plain badass (as a bonus he rarely if ever engages in the dick-stroking egomania of Traviss's Mandies), but under bad writers his badassitude can push into this. His father Jango Fett follows this same idea; in fact his origin story partly involves his old merc group of Mandalorians getting slaughtered by a group of Jedi in a moment that reads sort of like "fuck you Karen Traviss".

* [[Avatar|All Na'vi]]

* Smurfs. They're portrayed as a peace loving communist society that never has a conflict more dangerous than a family feud who have a ritual to maintain their immortality and are idealized to the point of ridiculousness. They're also friends with animals and never have to worry about being eaten even though they're the size of large mice.

* [[Twilight|Vampires in a certain book series]].

(More to be added later ''(sounds of crying editors)'')
[[Category:Mary Sue]]

Mary Sue

2017-07-23T02:51:39Z

2001:558:6045:E1:3103:9969:27C1:CAC3: /* Negating the Mary Sue */

[[Category:Mary Sue]]
{{HurfDurf}}

[[Image:Marysuetest.jpg|500px|right]]

Originally, a '''Mary Sue''' is a character that is shamelessly self-inserted, poorly developed, without flaws and stupidly overpowered. [[/tg/]] hates [[:Category:Mary Sue|Mary Sues]].

Unfortunately, after so much [[rage]] and so many [[troll]] threads, /tg/'s definition of Mary Sue has become blurred to the point that any character at all can be (and probably has been) accused of being a Mary Sue on even the flimsiest of pretenses.

Some accept nothing less than the above description, and will sooner gut you then look twice if you say it's anything else. Others prefer a more generalized definition, which refers to an overly-idealized character who exerts an unjust amount of influence upon their respective setting or story. Others still carry this meaning out to extremes, and use the term to describe anyone who isn't a homeless junkie or a brooding sociopath with an alignment of chaotic neutral.

However, there is a conundrum regarding the definition. If the character is overpowered, idealized and part of an established story (such as some portrayals of Wolverine and Batman), some say that this is not a Mary Sue, as they are a canon character in an original story. For them, the term "Canon Sue" is used. The only difference between a Mary Sue and a Canon Sue (I'd like to take the time to apologize to any real-life people named "Sue" who are reading this) is a Canon Sue is an established character in the story/wish-fulfillment for the creator of the story (NOTE: few people will admit if the fictional character they create is for wish-fulfillment). For the sake of this page, the definition of Mary Sue will also include Canon Sues.

Another problem is when people use the term "Mary Sue" to refer to a "creator's pet"; a character that part of the fanbase dislikes but is adored by the creator of the character and gets treatment such as increasing focus, magnifying the importance of their role, and having the other characters talk about how awesome they are in painful ignorance — or sometimes in spite — of the fans' obvious hatred. This is not a Mary Sue though a character can be both; the two types share common traits and a Creator's Pet is more easily defined. For example; [[Marneus Calgar]] is a creator's pet, while some characters who are both Mary Sues and creator's pets are [[World of Warcraft| Sylvanas (formerly Thrall too until recently)]], [[Alice]] and [[Twilight|Bella]].

It is worth noting, however, that very rare authors have the skill to pull off the Mary Sue, creating a character of such epic awesomeness (e.g. [[Star Trek|Jean Luc Picard]]) that no one gives a shit.

==Origin of the Concept==

The name "Mary Sue" comes from a parody of shitty [[Star Trek]] fanfiction called [http://www.wiccananime.com/amslt/amslttrekkiestale ''A Trekkie's Tale''] (no, seriously, that's the origin, look it up if you don't believe me). First written in [[Old School Roleplaying|1974]] by Paula Smith, the original Lieutenant Mary Sue was a parody of the half-Vulcan jailbait and other shameless self-inserts that had been clogging up the Star Trek fanfic magazines. The trolling was so epic that her name became permanently ingrained in the vocabulary of every fandom on the planet, and this makes Paula Smith a paragon of trolls.

The term is commonly used by [[troll]]s, and can most easily be spotted by a blanket accusation of a character being a Sue without attempting to justify actual reasons behind it. More clever trolls will attempt to offer some explanation that is deliberately intended to get under the offended party's skin.

==How Can I Tell If My Character Is A Mary Sue?==
Each "Yes" answer gives your character a piece of Mary Sueness.
[[File:God-Man.gif|300px|right]]
* Does their personal morality always perfectly match objective reality? To put it another way, would there be any difference between describing their opinion and simply narrating what was actually going on in a scene?
* Do they start the story at the pinnacle of achievement and have no way to grow or improve?
** Or do their new skills and abilities come from your ass at just the time they need them?
* Do they have unexplained frequent good luck, even when by all logic they should fail in that area?
* Is it a fan character that is better than the canon characters?
* Do they have physical features, powers or items that are impossible to have or extremely rare going by the rules of the setting (ie; a human with cat eyes and wings with no explanation in real-world based fiction, or a ridiculous item such as a weapon which is [[Noise Marines|chainsaw, electric-guitar and machine-gun combined]] in a swords-and-sorcery setting)?
* Do they have the most powerful ability or power in a setting, without any sacrifices? (For example a character that can use magic which would destroy any enemy, without any negative effects. But if a character has that ability, and it reduces his lifespan, damages him forever and/or kills everyone including his comrades, it's not ''that'' overpowered.)
* Are they connected to the canon characters or do they become connected to them? This usually takes the form of being a "long-lost" relative or love interest to a canon character.
* Do they get a lot of shilling? For example; do all the canon characters suddenly start talking about a fan character, with their presence in the story largely relegated to providing opportunities for the new character to show how pure, powerful, good-hearted, etc they are?
* Do you never allow other characters to dislike them?
** [[Eragon|Or do you punish those other characters for disliking your character by portraying them negatively and/or making something terrible happen to them]]? (For example; making them unlikable, a secondary villain, or having the one character that dislikes the Mary Sue "coincidentally" have their home destroyed)
* Are they someone's self-proclaimed [[furry|fursona]]? (If so, stop reading this list and burn them for [[heresy]]).
* Do they always make good decisions? And/or bad ones that are suddenly revealed to have been a good choice?
* Do you use absolutes like "always," "everybody," or "never" when describing their abilities?
* Do they feature an entirely contrived "weakness" that doesn't affect them any time it would harm them (such as being clumsy ''unless'' they are required to perform a great feat of athleticism) or isn't really a weakness (such as being too kind or righteous "for their own good") which was clearly added solely so the author could point to it when accused of writing a Sue?
* Is the main problem in the story one that this character can easily fix or solve on their own? (Doesn't count if they're the only character in the story).
* Is it a protagonist character written by Matt Ward, Kim Dal Young, Stephenie Mayer, Ayn Rand or Terry <del>Good</del>Badkind? (Note, a Mary Sue can be written by someone who's none of these people.)

Since then, it's been realized that a character doesn't need to be a self-insert to be a Mary Sue, but it helps. Everyone has their own criteria for what makes one, but the big three traits are:
#They are super-powerful/hyper-competent. In established settings, usually more so than canon characters. Better leadership skills than a McDohl, faster than Sonic, etc.
#The story completely revolves around them, even in... no, ESPECIALLY in established settings.
#They can do no wrong. Everyone loves the Mary Sue and defends them even against perfectly reasonable concerns, invariably demonizing people that make these concerns.

Bonus points:
#The Mary Sue's competence doesn't match the creator's knowledge, leading to things like "The greatest Scorpion Clan shinobi EVAR" walking around in broad daylight in stereotypical ninja gear.
#The Mary Sue is a hypocritical monster and the creator is totally blind to this fact.
#Other characters comment on how much better at their own skills the Mary Sue is like they're happy for her, even if the character is known for being arrogant and standoff-ish.
#Characters that don't react well to the Sue's 'harmless pranks' see the light and begin to love the Mary Sue as well.
#Those that don't turn out to be evil spies or something.

A lot of traits (e.g. too-long-names and heterochrome eyes) are assumed to be signs of Mary Sues, but in themselves don't make a character one.
 

==Not Really Mary Sue==

There are many cases of the "Mary Sue" accusation being used against characters who aren't '''quite''' Sues.

Remember, one of the defining traits of Mary Sue is in her relation to the author; either the author sees her as herself/himself, or views her as fap or schlick material (or worse, waifu material).

As a general rule: If the character makes a mistake, and it's clear that '''the author''' understands that the decision is a mistake, then they're probably not fully a Mary Sue.

==Negating the Mary Sue==
Interestingly, there hasn't been really much written about how to defeat a May Sue aside from trolling, but we may identify a few ways to deal with Mary Sues and even Canon Sues:
*The first one, and quite accessible is character development, while this implies a risk of expanding the infection it is possible to remove a Sue status with a good writer either making fanfiction or a spin-off where the Mary Sue is changed for the better. Examples of this has been seen in long-existent characters which, due to good writing, become more down to earth, with the added bonus of annoying fans of the Sue period of time to no end. After all, one fanfic denies another.
*The second one is retcon, as the easiest way to annihilate a Mary Sue is to achieve the general consensus that it never happened. This is harder of course, as it requires the creators recognizing they made the wrong decisions or at least conceding to the fans. It can happen, but it can only be through official involvement, which requires a lot of fan reaction to happen.
*Third, have them operate in something resembling the real world; their impossible perfectness is treated as impossible by the people within the setting, and their actions have unforeseen consequences. (See, for reference, good quality [[Superman]] and [[Batman]] stories that don't focus on making either character more "human".)
*Finally, when it comes to reality, badly written characters end falling by their own weight. This is the reason no one remembers most of the overpowered characters added in fanfiction.net while everyone remembers cool, well molded characters - after all, reality ensues.

Note that like overpoweredness, Mary Suedom is relative to the context of the work. Much like how if in a game everybody is overpowered, nobody actually is; if you are describing everyone in a setting as a Mary Sue, more than likely you're just in a "cast of snowflakes" setting, like superhero comics or transformers. Here, everyone of import is super amazing and special with a lot of weight put on their decisions and actions. [[Troll|Or maybe you're just a dumbass flinging around buzzwords at things you don't like.]]

==Hard Men Making Hard Decisions (While Hard)==

A side note: A specific male version of Mary Sue is also well known. He is usually described as a "Hard Man making Hard Decisions", but works using that description are usually sufficiently closer to "porn logic" than actual human logic that it's usually called "Wank material". (Note that "Hard Women making Hard Decisions" is also very much a thing.)

=Gallery=
<gallery>
Image:Bloody_Mary_Sues.jpg|Get rid of them before they lay eggs.
File:Marysue_1517.jpg
Image:Avatar shoopface by vfalconi.jpg|How it works.
File:Sparklypoo.jpg
</gallery>

=See Also=
[[List of Mary Sues]]

=External Links=
*[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue TVTropes' article on Mary Sues], that discusses the phenomenon and its many forms in detail.
*[http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/1379217 sup/tg/ archive] of a hilarious thread with ultimate Mary Sue and PURE ENERGY in it.
*[http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/1383654 sup/tg/ archive] of the Ultimate Mary Sue thread continued.
*[http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/13722924/ sup/tg/ archive]; [[ITT]], the most grimdark setting ever conceived.
*[http://www.big-metto.net/RP_Wiki/index.php?title=Mirabelle_Armitage Mirabelle Armitage, D&D Mary Sure beyond Drizzt.]
*[http://www.ongoingworlds.com/blog/2011/04/the-many-different-types-of-mary-sue/ The many different types of Mary Sue]

Mary Sue

2017-07-23T02:41:33Z

2001:558:6045:E1:3103:9969:27C1:CAC3:

[[Category:Mary Sue]]
{{HurfDurf}}

[[Image:Marysuetest.jpg|500px|right]]

Originally, a '''Mary Sue''' is a character that is shamelessly self-inserted, poorly developed, without flaws and stupidly overpowered. [[/tg/]] hates [[:Category:Mary Sue|Mary Sues]].

Unfortunately, after so much [[rage]] and so many [[troll]] threads, /tg/'s definition of Mary Sue has become blurred to the point that any character at all can be (and probably has been) accused of being a Mary Sue on even the flimsiest of pretenses.

Some accept nothing less than the above description, and will sooner gut you then look twice if you say it's anything else. Others prefer a more generalized definition, which refers to an overly-idealized character who exerts an unjust amount of influence upon their respective setting or story. Others still carry this meaning out to extremes, and use the term to describe anyone who isn't a homeless junkie or a brooding sociopath with an alignment of chaotic neutral.

However, there is a conundrum regarding the definition. If the character is overpowered, idealized and part of an established story (such as some portrayals of Wolverine and Batman), some say that this is not a Mary Sue, as they are a canon character in an original story. For them, the term "Canon Sue" is used. The only difference between a Mary Sue and a Canon Sue (I'd like to take the time to apologize to any real-life people named "Sue" who are reading this) is a Canon Sue is an established character in the story/wish-fulfillment for the creator of the story (NOTE: few people will admit if the fictional character they create is for wish-fulfillment). For the sake of this page, the definition of Mary Sue will also include Canon Sues.

Another problem is when people use the term "Mary Sue" to refer to a "creator's pet"; a character that part of the fanbase dislikes but is adored by the creator of the character and gets treatment such as increasing focus, magnifying the importance of their role, and having the other characters talk about how awesome they are in painful ignorance — or sometimes in spite — of the fans' obvious hatred. This is not a Mary Sue though a character can be both; the two types share common traits and a Creator's Pet is more easily defined. For example; [[Marneus Calgar]] is a creator's pet, while some characters who are both Mary Sues and creator's pets are [[World of Warcraft| Sylvanas (formerly Thrall too until recently)]], [[Alice]] and [[Twilight|Bella]].

It is worth noting, however, that very rare authors have the skill to pull off the Mary Sue, creating a character of such epic awesomeness (e.g. [[Star Trek|Jean Luc Picard]]) that no one gives a shit.

==Origin of the Concept==

The name "Mary Sue" comes from a parody of shitty [[Star Trek]] fanfiction called [http://www.wiccananime.com/amslt/amslttrekkiestale ''A Trekkie's Tale''] (no, seriously, that's the origin, look it up if you don't believe me). First written in [[Old School Roleplaying|1974]] by Paula Smith, the original Lieutenant Mary Sue was a parody of the half-Vulcan jailbait and other shameless self-inserts that had been clogging up the Star Trek fanfic magazines. The trolling was so epic that her name became permanently ingrained in the vocabulary of every fandom on the planet, and this makes Paula Smith a paragon of trolls.

The term is commonly used by [[troll]]s, and can most easily be spotted by a blanket accusation of a character being a Sue without attempting to justify actual reasons behind it. More clever trolls will attempt to offer some explanation that is deliberately intended to get under the offended party's skin.

==How Can I Tell If My Character Is A Mary Sue?==
Each "Yes" answer gives your character a piece of Mary Sueness.
[[File:God-Man.gif|300px|right]]
* Does their personal morality always perfectly match objective reality? To put it another way, would there be any difference between describing their opinion and simply narrating what was actually going on in a scene?
* Do they start the story at the pinnacle of achievement and have no way to grow or improve?
** Or do their new skills and abilities come from your ass at just the time they need them?
* Do they have unexplained frequent good luck, even when by all logic they should fail in that area?
* Is it a fan character that is better than the canon characters?
* Do they have physical features, powers or items that are impossible to have or extremely rare going by the rules of the setting (ie; a human with cat eyes and wings with no explanation in real-world based fiction, or a ridiculous item such as a weapon which is [[Noise Marines|chainsaw, electric-guitar and machine-gun combined]] in a swords-and-sorcery setting)?
* Do they have the most powerful ability or power in a setting, without any sacrifices? (For example a character that can use magic which would destroy any enemy, without any negative effects. But if a character has that ability, and it reduces his lifespan, damages him forever and/or kills everyone including his comrades, it's not ''that'' overpowered.)
* Are they connected to the canon characters or do they become connected to them? This usually takes the form of being a "long-lost" relative or love interest to a canon character.
* Do they get a lot of shilling? For example; do all the canon characters suddenly start talking about a fan character, with their presence in the story largely relegated to providing opportunities for the new character to show how pure, powerful, good-hearted, etc they are?
* Do you never allow other characters to dislike them?
** [[Eragon|Or do you punish those other characters for disliking your character by portraying them negatively and/or making something terrible happen to them]]? (For example; making them unlikable, a secondary villain, or having the one character that dislikes the Mary Sue "coincidentally" have their home destroyed)
* Are they someone's self-proclaimed [[furry|fursona]]? (If so, stop reading this list and burn them for [[heresy]]).
* Do they always make good decisions? And/or bad ones that are suddenly revealed to have been a good choice?
* Do you use absolutes like "always," "everybody," or "never" when describing their abilities?
* Do they feature an entirely contrived "weakness" that doesn't affect them any time it would harm them (such as being clumsy ''unless'' they are required to perform a great feat of athleticism) or isn't really a weakness (such as being too kind or righteous "for their own good") which was clearly added solely so the author could point to it when accused of writing a Sue?
* Is the main problem in the story one that this character can easily fix or solve on their own? (Doesn't count if they're the only character in the story).
* Is it a protagonist character written by Matt Ward, Kim Dal Young, Stephenie Mayer, Ayn Rand or Terry <del>Good</del>Badkind? (Note, a Mary Sue can be written by someone who's none of these people.)

Since then, it's been realized that a character doesn't need to be a self-insert to be a Mary Sue, but it helps. Everyone has their own criteria for what makes one, but the big three traits are:
#They are super-powerful/hyper-competent. In established settings, usually more so than canon characters. Better leadership skills than a McDohl, faster than Sonic, etc.
#The story completely revolves around them, even in... no, ESPECIALLY in established settings.
#They can do no wrong. Everyone loves the Mary Sue and defends them even against perfectly reasonable concerns, invariably demonizing people that make these concerns.

Bonus points:
#The Mary Sue's competence doesn't match the creator's knowledge, leading to things like "The greatest Scorpion Clan shinobi EVAR" walking around in broad daylight in stereotypical ninja gear.
#The Mary Sue is a hypocritical monster and the creator is totally blind to this fact.
#Other characters comment on how much better at their own skills the Mary Sue is like they're happy for her, even if the character is known for being arrogant and standoff-ish.
#Characters that don't react well to the Sue's 'harmless pranks' see the light and begin to love the Mary Sue as well.
#Those that don't turn out to be evil spies or something.

A lot of traits (e.g. too-long-names and heterochrome eyes) are assumed to be signs of Mary Sues, but in themselves don't make a character one.
 

==Not Really Mary Sue==

There are many cases of the "Mary Sue" accusation being used against characters who aren't '''quite''' Sues.

Remember, one of the defining traits of Mary Sue is in her relation to the author; either the author sees her as herself/himself, or views her as fap or schlick material (or worse, waifu material).

As a general rule: If the character makes a mistake, and it's clear that '''the author''' understands that the decision is a mistake, then they're probably not fully a Mary Sue.

==Negating the Mary Sue==
Interestingly, there hasn't been really much written about how to defeat a May Sue aside from trolling, but we may identify two ways to deal with Mary Sues and even Canon Sues:
*The first one, and quite accessible is character development, while this implies a risk of expanding the infection it is possible to remove a Sue status with a good writer either making fanfiction or a spin-off where the Mary Sue is changed for the better. Examples of this has been seen in long-existent characters which, due to good writing, become more down to earth, with the added bonus of annoying fans of the Sue period of time to no end. After all, one fanfic denies another.
*The second one is retcon, as the easiest way to annihilate a Mary Sue is to achieve the general consensus that it never happened. This is harder of course, as it requires the creators recognizing they made the wrong decisions or at least conceding to the fans. It can happen, but it can only be through official involvement, which requires a lot of fan reaction to happen.
*Finally, when it comes to reality, badly written characters end falling by their own weight. This is the reason no one remembers most of the overpowered characters added in fanfiction.net while everyone remembers cool, well molded characters - after all, reality ensues.

Note that like overpoweredness, Mary Suedom is relative to the context of the work. Much like how if in a game everybody is overpowered, nobody actually is; if you are describing everyone in a setting as a Mary Sue, more than likely you're just in a "cast of snowflakes" setting, like superhero comics or transformers. Here, everyone of import is super amazing and special with a lot of weight put on their decisions and actions. [[Troll|Or maybe you're just a dumbass flinging around buzzwords at things you don't like.]]

==Hard Men Making Hard Decisions (While Hard)==

A side note: A specific male version of Mary Sue is also well known. He is usually described as a "Hard Man making Hard Decisions", but works using that description are usually sufficiently closer to "porn logic" than actual human logic that it's usually called "Wank material". (Note that "Hard Women making Hard Decisions" is also very much a thing.)

=Gallery=
<gallery>
Image:Bloody_Mary_Sues.jpg|Get rid of them before they lay eggs.
File:Marysue_1517.jpg
Image:Avatar shoopface by vfalconi.jpg|How it works.
File:Sparklypoo.jpg
</gallery>

=See Also=
[[List of Mary Sues]]

=External Links=
*[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue TVTropes' article on Mary Sues], that discusses the phenomenon and its many forms in detail.
*[http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/1379217 sup/tg/ archive] of a hilarious thread with ultimate Mary Sue and PURE ENERGY in it.
*[http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/1383654 sup/tg/ archive] of the Ultimate Mary Sue thread continued.
*[http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/13722924/ sup/tg/ archive]; [[ITT]], the most grimdark setting ever conceived.
*[http://www.big-metto.net/RP_Wiki/index.php?title=Mirabelle_Armitage Mirabelle Armitage, D&D Mary Sure beyond Drizzt.]
*[http://www.ongoingworlds.com/blog/2011/04/the-many-different-types-of-mary-sue/ The many different types of Mary Sue]

Battleaxe

2017-06-28T21:01:23Z

2001:558:6045:E1:3103:9969:27C1:CAC3: /* Double-Headed or Double-Bitted Axes: What A Real Battleaxe Never Looks Like */

[[image:Battleaxe.png|thumb|300px|right|A Battleaxe]]
A '''Battleaxe''' is an axe intended for battle (duh). Wherever there were trees and a need to chop firewood, people found an abundant need for axes. In a fight an axe will chop through a leg or a skull just as it would a log, so people took them along to war. Once it was established that they were good weapons, axe-makers began made axes specifically to be weapons, tweaking the design to better serve in that capacity.

While there is nothing wrong with [[sword]]s and [[mace]]s, battleaxes are the go-to weapon for your average [[Dwarf]] in most fantasy settings. [[Viking]]s also are famous for their use of battleaxes, particularly because it was the weapon commonly associated with the legendary Viking [[Warriors of Chaos|bezerkers]], though again they were generally perfectly fine using swords and [[spear]]s. Axes however are nonetheless mentioned as respected weapons in Old Norse poetry. For example, some poems associated with the legendary Geatish King Dag Spaka (Dag the Wise) mentions the king's incredible and peerless skill with a battleaxe, which is significant given that swords are often thought to be a king's weapon in Germanic societies. Indeed, the axe is quite important also in ancient Scandinavian culture, though not to the extent of swords.

== Battleaxes in warfare ==
Axes are bloody old, almost as old as [[mace|maces]]. Both are "mass weapons," but the main difference is that an axe focuses the kinetic power of the swing into a sharpened edge while the mace strikes with pure concussive force.

An axe is a heavy bladed wedge of hardened material on the end of a handle. It does damage by swinging that bit into the foe at high speed. On impact it delivers a lot of kinetic energy to a concentrated point with a cutting edge to drive it deep as possible. This can chop through shield, muscle, bone and armor. Even if it does not go through armor, its blunt force trauma can shatter bones. Battleaxes are great at killing people quickly, as their hits not only wound but also shock and cripple target, while mortal wounds from swords, spears or bows usually do not kill the target instantly, allowing it to strike few final blows before passing down.

The problem is that Battleaxes are cumbersome. To make them work as well as possible, they need room to get a good swing going to impact with full force. Swinging an axe at such distance also takes time. If your first strike is not lethal, your enemy has a fair amount of time to strike you while you get the next one ready. This also means that they are not the best weapons for confined quarters (for example, in a cave or a mineshaft), and it fucks up one's ability to fight in a tight formation, which was a very, very critical component of pre-modern warfare. Though if things broke down into a swirling melee, an axe-wielder would fare better.

Battleaxes are generally poorly balanced, meaning you cannot control them as good as swords, and generally should swing them around keeping momentum instead of making swings and thrusts and then quickly returning it to defensive position, like swords. This means axes are terrible at defense - not because they cannot parry, but because they cannot quickly switch between parrying and attacking. This problem, however, is easily solved by taking a shield in the other hand. Axes also tend to stick inside armour, shields or just enemy bones, unlike mauls and warhammers which are also good against heavily armoured targets. An axe's pole is usually much tougher than one on a [[spear]] or a [[polearm]], sometimes with a metal core, since it isn't as long and, as a mass weapon, it needs less finesse to handle. It generally couldn't be snapped by a one-handed sword, but greatswords are quite capable of destroying an axe with lucky swing. That's why axe-wielders that aren't the throwaway arrow-fodder like militiamen usually carry some fallback weapon - short sword, dagger, or another axe.

Axes are also quite cheap compared to swords, though not as cheap as spears. Axe heads need much less metal than swords, but also require a good smith, unless you're pretty OK with your axe blunting after the few hits. Speaking of which, blunted, chipped or otherwise damaged axes are still quite a dangerous weapons, unlike spears, swords or daggers, so along with mauls they tend to be popular amongst those who cannot afford or assess a proper smith. Unlike swords and spears, axes also could be used outside the battle to chop some wood or to construct a camp. As mentioned earlier, if you are a peasant there would typically be some wood axes around if you needed a weapon and had little money.

In desperate situations axe could be thrown, but unless this particular axe was designed to be thrown and the wielder was specifically trained to throw axes results are usually quite poor. However with proper training and design throwing axes are quite devastating, able to one-hit-kill or at least cripple a man even through shield and heavy armour - something arrows and javelins are unable to do.

Today, battle axes are still used in modern military applications, usually taking the form of hatchets or tomahawks, and are built as multi-purpose tools that can be effective as both a tool for helping with labor or as a weapon for chopping some unlucky sod's head off.

== Types of Battlexe ==

In addition to the typical battleaxe, there were many other forms of axes meant to be used as weapons.

*'''Tomahawk''': An axe similar to a hatchet favored by many Native American tribes (and later some European colonists) that could be used both as a hand-to-hand weapon and as a throwing weapon. In fact some Native Americans refused to be photographed without displaying their tomahawk. Older versions had heads made of stone or deer antler, but metal was later used when the colonists first landed and trade between Europeans and Native Americans began. Some were modified with a hole drilled down the center of the shaft and a hollow poll so they could also be used as tobacco pipes; these were crafted as trade goods to be presented as gifts. (Some historians have noted that such pipe tomahawks could be viewed as a metaphor for Native American-European relations, as it could be used either as a peace-pipe or a weapon, much like how Native Americans and Europeans could both engage peaceful trading or wage war against each other.) Modern versions continue to be used in the military today. If equipped with a back spike and/or some sort of edge for thrusting, they are surprisingly versatile all-purpose tools (as axes generally are) and just as useful in close combat.

*'''Spontoon Tomahawk''': A variation of the tomahawk developed by French fur trappers that replaced the traditional wedged axe head with a knife-like stabbing blade.

*'''Shepherd's Axe''': An axe with a long, straight shaft and a head which is sharp on one end and flat on the other. The head was designed to fit comfortably into one's hand without chopping it off, and could also be used as a hammer or a walking stick. As the name suggests, it was mainly used by shepherds in the Carpathian Mountains (i.e. much of Central Europe, including Poland, Ukraine, and Hungary) who needed to defend themselves against bandits and wild animals.

*'''Poleaxe''': As the name suggests, it's an axe head on a pole, making it a form of [[pole-arm]]. In many respects, the poleaxe is the swiss-army knife of polearms. Compared to a halberd, it has a smaller head, which focuses kinetic energy onto a smaller area and lets it cut through armor more effectively. The spike on the end of the pole's butt also made it useful for thrusting attacks, and it could be used to block in the same way as a quarterstaff. A hammer or spike was typically mounted opposite to the axe head. In short, if you wanted options when going into combat - particularly armored combat, the poleaxe would serve you well.

*'''Halberd''': Another pole-arm, differing from the poleaxe in the long spike on the top of the axe head and the hook on the back of the axe's blade, which was ideal for pulling a mounted [[knight]] off his horse. It could be used as a [[spear]] as well as an axe in close quarters.

*'''Danish Axe''': An early battleaxe with a single-edged blade with pronounced "horns" at the top and bottom of the blade, also known as a Viking axe. Its blade was rather light and it had similar proportions to a modern meat cleaver, making it excellent for cutting through flesh and bone-the Bayeux Tapestry depicts a warrior decapitating a Norman knight's horse with one blow using it.

*'''Throwing Axe''': These axes were explicitly designed for throwing and are best thrown in an overhead motion- that way the axe head rotates as it flies through the air, preferably into a victim's body. While harder to aim than a throwing knife, it is far more lethal if it connects. The tomahawk and francisca are both forms of throwing axes.

*'''Francisca''': An early throwing axe used primarily by the Franks during the Early Middle Ages. The head is too heavy for it to be useful in melee combat and it's difficult to aim even compared to other throwing axes, but it doesn't need to be accurate- it's capable of causing injury with its weight alone, and it bounces when it hits the ground, giving it a nasty tendency to cripple anyone unfortunate enough to have their legs struck by a bouncing axe. They were commonly thrown in volleys to intimidate and weaken foes before a charge.

*'''Axe Pistol''': A wheellock or flintlock [[firearm|pistol]] with an axe head attached to the end of the barrel used from the 16th to 19th centuries. Pistols of the time were single-shot and very short-ranged (you could only reliably hit a man-sized target up to 30 meters out before it became a complete crapshoot), so they often ended up being used in close quarters as clubs. Adding an axe head to a pistol meant that it had a critical edge over a regular pistol in a brawl, albeit at the cost of a bit more weight, being somewhat more unwieldy as both a pistol or a regular axe of similar size and a somewhat higher price tag than a regular pistol. Then again, the accuracy penalty and increased heft caused by fitting an axe head to the muzzle of a gun that was never intended for long-range shots, and required a lengthy reloading process after every shot, certainly won't be at the front of your mind when your enemies are at arm's length already, so the ability to hack them to pieces right after using your one shot will be very attractive. Axe pistols were used by both cavalry and by sailors.

*'''Bardiche''': Standing on the line between battle axes and glaives is the Russian Bardiche. Used by the Streltsy (troops armed with firearms) as a close combat weapon and as a stand to brace their otherwise cumbersome fire arms on.

*'''Military shovel (AKA "Entrenching Tool" or "E-Tool"'''): Not strictly an axe, but I doubt anyone who's got his head split in half by one is going to be able to argue the difference. It's what you get when you take the broad metal head (preferably sharpened) on a long handle (for a shovel) or a short one (for a spade) and swing the head edge-first at people, effectively turning your humble digging tool into an ersatz but perfectly serviceable axe. During World War I, originally expected to last only a few months in a Napoleon-style clash of armies on the open field, bogged down into the bloody quagmire of trench warfare on the Western Front, the Entrenching Tool (actually a spade) become one of the most important tools a soldier could carry, as the ability to quickly dig a machine gun into place or create a foxhole to shelter from the near-constant artillery fire became a necessity. When attacking enemy trenches, soldiers found that their long rifles with bayonets (created for the purpose of turning a musket into a spear to ward off now-obsolete cavalry charges) too long to be of use, so many of them quickly took their shovels and sharpened one edge to assist in close quarters fighting. Although still used by soldiers primarily for digging trenches and constructing fortifications in the field, the military shovel still finds use as an improvised weapon on occasion, and it helps that sharpening one or both edges of a spade's metal head doesn't hurt its ability to dig foxholes or trenches. Go ahead and model your artillery-and-trench-loving [[Death Korps of Krieg]] troopers with sharpened spades in one hand so they can [[Awesome|split the heads of heretics and Xenos]] for a period-accurate and awesome-looking conversion!

==Double-Headed or Double-Bitted Axes: What A Real Battleaxe Never Looks Like==

[[image:Labrys.jpeg|thumb|300px|right|Examples of Double-Headed Axes, also known as Labrys]]

Listen up, fantasy artists, video game designers, and stupider roleplayers: You see those images at the right? They're called a Labrys, and they're completely unusable for combat. To the extent they were ever used against people, they were used almost exclusively for religious purposes by certain cults in ancient Greek history, or as a symbol of either Greek history (usually by fascists), or as a symbol of femininity (as the Labrys was associated with Goddess worship--look at the shape, and look at a spread female genitalia, and realize the ancients could be quite perverted).

The thing is, they're completely unwieldy for combat, as they weigh twice as much as a "normal" axe, and have worse aerodynamic properties. Wielding a Labrys in combat is going to be difficult to impossible for anyone not wearing [[Power Armor]], or who isn't cyborg or a [http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Labrys|a hot robot girl.] (And we're not too certain about the Mecha making it at all useful: You'd still have to deal with the fact that you'd still get a lot more bang for your buck with a single-headed axe, especially compared to if you put a pick of some kind on the other end.)

So, where did these double-headed axes come from, you may ask (because we do find double-headed axes in archeology sites almost all over the world)? The logging industry. Having an axe that you could cut twice as many trees with before having to return to base to have your blade sharpened is more valuable when you spend most of your day walking around cutting down trees. The doubled weight is also an advantage when what you're cutting doesn't move.

{{MedievalWeaponry}}

Battleaxe

2017-06-17T11:06:17Z

2001:558:6045:E1:3103:9969:27C1:CAC3: /* Double-Headed or Double-Bitted Axes: What A Real Battleaxe Never Looks Like */

[[image:Battleaxe.png|thumb|300px|right|A Battleaxe]]
A '''Battleaxe''' is an axe intended for battle (duh). Wherever there were trees and a need to chop firewood, people found an abundant need for axes. In a fight an axe will chop through a leg or a skull just as it would a log, so people took them along to war. Once it was established that they were good weapons, axe-makers began made axes specifically to be weapons, tweaking the design to better serve in that capacity.

While there is nothing wrong with [[sword]]s and [[mace]]s, battleaxes are the go-to weapon for your average [[Dwarf]] in most fantasy settings. [[Viking]]s also are famous for their use of battleaxes, particularly because it was the weapon commonly associated with the legendary Viking [[Warriors of Chaos|bezerkers]], though again they were generally perfectly fine using swords and [[spear]]s. Axes however are nonetheless mentioned as respected weapons in Old Norse poetry. For example, some poems associated with the legendary Geatish King Dag Spaka (Dag the Wise) mentions the king's incredible and peerless skill with a battleaxe, which is significant given that swords are often thought to be a king's weapon in Germanic societies. Indeed, the axe is quite important also in ancient Scandinavian culture, though not to the extent of swords.

== Battleaxes in warfare ==
Axes are bloody old, almost as old as [[mace|maces]]. Both are "mass weapons," but the main difference is that an axe focuses the kinetic power of the swing into a sharpened edge while the mace strikes with pure concussive force.

An axe is a heavy bladed wedge of hardened material on the end of a handle. It does damage by swinging that bit into the foe at high speed. On impact it delivers a lot of kinetic energy to a concentrated point with a cutting edge to drive it deep as possible. This can chop through shield, muscle, bone and armor. Even if it does not go through armor, its blunt force trauma can shatter bones. Battleaxes are great at killing people quickly, as their hits not only wound but also shock and cripple target, while mortal wounds from swords, spears or bows usually do not kill the target instantly, allowing it to strike few final blows before passing down.

The problem is that Battleaxes are cumbersome. To make them work as well as possible, they need room to get a good swing going to impact with full force. Swinging an axe at such distance also takes time. If your first strike is not lethal, your enemy has a fair amount of time to strike you while you get the next one ready. This also means that they are not the best weapons for confined quarters (for example, in a cave or a mineshaft), and it fucks up one's ability to fight in a tight formation, which was a very, very critical component of pre-modern warfare. Though if things broke down into a swirling melee, an axe-wielder would fare better.

Battleaxes are generally poorly balanced, meaning you cannot control them as good as swords, and generally should swing them around keeping momentum instead of making swings and thrusts and then quickly returning it to defensive position, like swords. This means axes are terrible at defense - not because they cannot parry, but because they cannot quickly switch between parrying and attacking. This problem, however, is easily solved by taking a shield in the other hand. Axes also tend to stick inside armour, shields or just enemy bones, unlike mauls and warhammers which are also good against heavily armoured targets. An axe's pole is usually much tougher than one on a [[spear]] or a [[polearm]], sometimes with a metal core, since it isn't as long and, as a mass weapon, it needs less finesse to handle. It generally couldn't be snapped by a one-handed sword, but greatswords are quite capable of destroying an axe with lucky swing. That's why axe-wielders that aren't the throwaway arrow-fodder like militiamen usually carry some fallback weapon - short sword, dagger, or another axe.

Axes are also quite cheap compared to swords, though not as cheap as spears. Axe heads need much less metal than swords, but also require a good smith, unless you're pretty OK with your axe blunting after the few hits. Speaking of which, blunted, chipped or otherwise damaged axes are still quite a dangerous weapons, unlike spears, swords or daggers, so along with mauls they tend to be popular amongst those who cannot afford or assess a proper smith. Unlike swords and spears, axes also could be used outside the battle to chop some wood or to construct a camp. As mentioned earlier, if you are a peasant there would typically be some wood axes around if you needed a weapon and had little money.

In desperate situations axe could be thrown, but unless this particular axe was designed to be thrown and the wielder was specifically trained to throw axes results are usually quite poor. However with proper training and design throwing axes are quite devastating, able to one-hit-kill or at least cripple a man even through shield and heavy armour - something arrows and javelins are unable to do.

Today, battle axes are still used in modern military applications, usually taking the form of hatchets or tomahawks, and are built as multi-purpose tools that can be effective as both a tool for helping with labor or as a weapon for chopping some unlucky sod's head off.

== Types of Battlexe ==

In addition to the typical battleaxe, there were many other forms of axes meant to be used as weapons.

*'''Tomahawk''': An axe similar to a hatchet favored by many Native American tribes (and later some European colonists) that could be used both as a hand-to-hand weapon and as a throwing weapon. In fact some Native Americans refused to be photographed without displaying their tomahawk. Older versions had heads made of stone or deer antler, but metal was later used when the colonists first landed and trade between Europeans and Native Americans began. Some were modified with a hole drilled down the center of the shaft and a hollow poll so they could also be used as tobacco pipes; these were crafted as trade goods to be presented as gifts. (Some historians have noted that such pipe tomahawks could be viewed as a metaphor for Native American-European relations, as it could be used either as a peace-pipe or a weapon, much like how Native Americans and Europeans could both engage peaceful trading or wage war against each other.) Modern versions continue to be used in the military today. If equipped with a back spike and/or some sort of edge for thrusting, they are surprisingly versatile all-purpose tools (as axes generally are) and just as useful in close combat.

*'''Spontoon Tomahawk''': A variation of the tomahawk developed by French fur trappers that replaced the traditional wedged axe head with a knife-like stabbing blade.

*'''Shepherd's Axe''': An axe with a long, straight shaft and a head which is sharp on one end and flat on the other. The head was designed to fit comfortably into one's hand without chopping it off, and could also be used as a hammer or a walking stick. As the name suggests, it was mainly used by shepherds in the Carpathian Mountains (i.e. much of Central Europe, including Poland, Ukraine, and Hungary) who needed to defend themselves against bandits and wild animals.

*'''Poleaxe''': As the name suggests, it's an axe head on a pole, making it a form of [[pole-arm]]. In many respects, the poleaxe is the swiss-army knife of polearms. Compared to a halberd, it has a smaller head, which focuses kinetic energy onto a smaller area and lets it cut through armor more effectively. The spike on the end of the pole's butt also made it useful for thrusting attacks, and it could be used to block in the same way as a quarterstaff. A hammer or spike was typically mounted opposite to the axe head. In short, if you wanted options when going into combat - particularly armored combat, the poleaxe would serve you well.

*'''Halberd''': Another pole-arm, differing from the poleaxe in the long spike on the top of the axe head and the hook on the back of the axe's blade, which was ideal for pulling a mounted [[knight]] off his horse. It could be used as a [[spear]] as well as an axe in close quarters.

*'''Danish Axe''': An early battleaxe with a single-edged blade with pronounced "horns" at the top and bottom of the blade, also known as a Viking axe. Its blade was rather light and it had similar proportions to a modern meat cleaver, making it excellent for cutting through flesh and bone-the Bayeux Tapestry depicts a warrior decapitating a Norman knight's horse with one blow using it.

*'''Throwing Axe''': These axes were explicitly designed for throwing and are best thrown in an overhead motion- that way the axe head rotates as it flies through the air, preferably into a victim's body. While harder to aim than a throwing knife, it is far more lethal if it connects. The tomahawk and francisca are both forms of throwing axes.

*'''Francisca''': An early throwing axe used primarily by the Franks during the Early Middle Ages. The head is too heavy for it to be useful in melee combat and it's difficult to aim even compared to other throwing axes, but it doesn't need to be accurate- it's capable of causing injury with its weight alone, and it bounces when it hits the ground, giving it a nasty tendency to cripple anyone unfortunate enough to have their legs struck by a bouncing axe. They were commonly thrown in volleys to intimidate and weaken foes before a charge.

*'''Axe Pistol''': A wheellock or flintlock [[firearm|pistol]] with an axe head attached to the end of the barrel used from the 16th to 19th centuries. Pistols of the time were single-shot and very short-ranged (you could only reliably hit a man-sized target up to 30 meters out before it became a complete crapshoot), so they often ended up being used in close quarters as clubs. Adding an axe head to a pistol meant that it had a critical edge over a regular pistol in a brawl, albeit at the cost of a bit more weight, being somewhat more unwieldy as both a pistol or a regular axe of similar size and a somewhat higher price tag than a regular pistol. Then again, the accuracy penalty and increased heft caused by fitting an axe head to the muzzle of a gun that was never intended for long-range shots, and required a lengthy reloading process after every shot, certainly won't be at the front of your mind when your enemies are at arm's length already, so the ability to hack them to pieces right after using your one shot will be very attractive. Axe pistols were used by both cavalry and by sailors.

*'''Bardiche''': Standing on the line between battle axes and glaives is the Russian Bardiche. Used by the Streltsy (troops armed with firearms) as a close combat weapon and as a stand to brace their otherwise cumbersome fire arms on.

*'''Military shovel (AKA "Entrenching Tool" or "E-Tool"'''): Not strictly an axe, but I doubt anyone who's got his head split in half by one is going to be able to argue the difference. It's what you get when you take the broad metal head (preferably sharpened) on a long handle (for a shovel) or a short one (for a spade) and swing the head edge-first at people, effectively turning your humble digging tool into an ersatz but perfectly serviceable axe. During World War I, originally expected to last only a few months in a Napoleon-style clash of armies on the open field, bogged down into the bloody quagmire of trench warfare on the Western Front, the Entrenching Tool (actually a spade) become one of the most important tools a soldier could carry, as the ability to quickly dig a machine gun into place or create a foxhole to shelter from the near-constant artillery fire became a necessity. When attacking enemy trenches, soldiers found that their long rifles with bayonets (created for the purpose of turning a musket into a spear to ward off now-obsolete cavalry charges) too long to be of use, so many of them quickly took their shovels and sharpened one edge to assist in close quarters fighting. Although still used by soldiers primarily for digging trenches and constructing fortifications in the field, the military shovel still finds use as an improvised weapon on occasion, and it helps that sharpening one or both edges of a spade's metal head doesn't hurt its ability to dig foxholes or trenches. Go ahead and model your artillery-and-trench-loving [[Death Korps of Krieg]] troopers with sharpened spades in one hand so they can [[Awesome|split the heads of heretics and Xenos]] for a period-accurate and awesome-looking conversion!

==Double-Headed or Double-Bitted Axes: What A Real Battleaxe Never Looks Like==

[[image:Labrys.jpeg|thumb|300px|right|Examples of Double-Headed Axes, also known as Labrys]]

Listen up, fantasy artists, video game designers, and stupider roleplayers: You see those images at the right? They're called a Labrys, and they're completely unusable for combat. To the extent they were ever used against people, they were used almost exclusively for religious purposes by certain cults in ancient Greek history, or as a symbol of either Greek history (usually by fascists), or as a symbol of femininity (as the Labrys was associated with Goddess worship--look at the shape, and look at a spread female genitalia, and realize the ancients could be quite perverted).

The thing is, they're completely unwieldy for combat, as they weigh twice as much as a "normal" axe, and have worse aerodynamic properties. Wielding a Labrys in combat is going to be difficult to impossible for anyone not wearing [[Power Armor]], or who isn't cyborg or a [http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Labrys|a hot robot girl.] (And we're not too certain about the Mecha making it at all useful: You'd still have to deal with the fact that you'd still get a lot more bang for your buck with a single-headed axe, especially if you put a pick of some kind on the other end.)

So, where did these double-headed axes come from, you may ask (because we do find double-headed axes in archeology sites almost all over the world)? The logging industry. Having an axe that you could cut twice as many trees with before having to return to base to have your blade sharpened is more valuable when you spend most of your day walking around cutting down trees. The doubled weight is also an advantage when what you're cutting doesn't move.

{{MedievalWeaponry}}

Battleaxe

2017-06-17T09:31:04Z

2001:558:6045:E1:3103:9969:27C1:CAC3: Double-Headed Axes: If your artist includes them in combat, he's a fucking hack.

[[image:Battleaxe.png|thumb|300px|right|A Battleaxe]]
A '''Battleaxe''' is an axe intended for battle (duh). Wherever there were trees and a need to chop firewood, people found an abundant need for axes. In a fight an axe will chop through a leg or a skull just as it would a log, so people took them along to war. Once it was established that they were good weapons, axe-makers began made axes specifically to be weapons, tweaking the design to better serve in that capacity.

While there is nothing wrong with [[sword]]s and [[mace]]s, battleaxes are the go-to weapon for your average [[Dwarf]] in most fantasy settings. [[Viking]]s also are famous for their use of battleaxes, particularly because it was the weapon commonly associated with the legendary Viking [[Warriors of Chaos|bezerkers]], though again they were generally perfectly fine using swords and [[spear]]s. Axes however are nonetheless mentioned as respected weapons in Old Norse poetry. For example, some poems associated with the legendary Geatish King Dag Spaka (Dag the Wise) mentions the king's incredible and peerless skill with a battleaxe, which is significant given that swords are often thought to be a king's weapon in Germanic societies. Indeed, the axe is quite important also in ancient Scandinavian culture, though not to the extent of swords.

== Battleaxes in warfare ==
Axes are bloody old, almost as old as [[mace|maces]]. Both are "mass weapons," but the main difference is that an axe focuses the kinetic power of the swing into a sharpened edge while the mace strikes with pure concussive force.

An axe is a heavy bladed wedge of hardened material on the end of a handle. It does damage by swinging that bit into the foe at high speed. On impact it delivers a lot of kinetic energy to a concentrated point with a cutting edge to drive it deep as possible. This can chop through shield, muscle, bone and armor. Even if it does not go through armor, its blunt force trauma can shatter bones. Battleaxes are great at killing people quickly, as their hits not only wound but also shock and cripple target, while mortal wounds from swords, spears or bows usually do not kill the target instantly, allowing it to strike few final blows before passing down.

The problem is that Battleaxes are cumbersome. To make them work as well as possible, they need room to get a good swing going to impact with full force. Swinging an axe at such distance also takes time. If your first strike is not lethal, your enemy has a fair amount of time to strike you while you get the next one ready. This also means that they are not the best weapons for confined quarters (for example, in a cave or a mineshaft), and it fucks up one's ability to fight in a tight formation, which was a very, very critical component of pre-modern warfare. Though if things broke down into a swirling melee, an axe-wielder would fare better.

Battleaxes are generally poorly balanced, meaning you cannot control them as good as swords, and generally should swing them around keeping momentum instead of making swings and thrusts and then quickly returning it to defensive position, like swords. This means axes are terrible at defense - not because they cannot parry, but because they cannot quickly switch between parrying and attacking. This problem, however, is easily solved by taking a shield in the other hand. Axes also tend to stick inside armour, shields or just enemy bones, unlike mauls and warhammers which are also good against heavily armoured targets. An axe's pole is usually much tougher than one on a [[spear]] or a [[polearm]], sometimes with a metal core, since it isn't as long and, as a mass weapon, it needs less finesse to handle. It generally couldn't be snapped by a one-handed sword, but greatswords are quite capable of destroying an axe with lucky swing. That's why axe-wielders that aren't the throwaway arrow-fodder like militiamen usually carry some fallback weapon - short sword, dagger, or another axe.

Axes are also quite cheap compared to swords, though not as cheap as spears. Axe heads need much less metal than swords, but also require a good smith, unless you're pretty OK with your axe blunting after the few hits. Speaking of which, blunted, chipped or otherwise damaged axes are still quite a dangerous weapons, unlike spears, swords or daggers, so along with mauls they tend to be popular amongst those who cannot afford or assess a proper smith. Unlike swords and spears, axes also could be used outside the battle to chop some wood or to construct a camp. As mentioned earlier, if you are a peasant there would typically be some wood axes around if you needed a weapon and had little money.

In desperate situations axe could be thrown, but unless this particular axe was designed to be thrown and the wielder was specifically trained to throw axes results are usually quite poor. However with proper training and design throwing axes are quite devastating, able to one-hit-kill or at least cripple a man even through shield and heavy armour - something arrows and javelins are unable to do.

Today, battle axes are still used in modern military applications, usually taking the form of hatchets or tomahawks, and are built as multi-purpose tools that can be effective as both a tool for helping with labor or as a weapon for chopping some unlucky sod's head off.

== Types of Battlexe ==

In addition to the typical battleaxe, there were many other forms of axes meant to be used as weapons.

*'''Tomahawk''': An axe similar to a hatchet favored by many Native American tribes (and later some European colonists) that could be used both as a hand-to-hand weapon and as a throwing weapon. In fact some Native Americans refused to be photographed without displaying their tomahawk. Older versions had heads made of stone or deer antler, but metal was later used when the colonists first landed and trade between Europeans and Native Americans began. Some were modified with a hole drilled down the center of the shaft and a hollow poll so they could also be used as tobacco pipes; these were crafted as trade goods to be presented as gifts. (Some historians have noted that such pipe tomahawks could be viewed as a metaphor for Native American-European relations, as it could be used either as a peace-pipe or a weapon, much like how Native Americans and Europeans could both engage peaceful trading or wage war against each other.) Modern versions continue to be used in the military today. If equipped with a back spike and/or some sort of edge for thrusting, they are surprisingly versatile all-purpose tools (as axes generally are) and just as useful in close combat.

*'''Spontoon Tomahawk''': A variation of the tomahawk developed by French fur trappers that replaced the traditional wedged axe head with a knife-like stabbing blade.

*'''Shepherd's Axe''': An axe with a long, straight shaft and a head which is sharp on one end and flat on the other. The head was designed to fit comfortably into one's hand without chopping it off, and could also be used as a hammer or a walking stick. As the name suggests, it was mainly used by shepherds in the Carpathian Mountains (i.e. much of Central Europe, including Poland, Ukraine, and Hungary) who needed to defend themselves against bandits and wild animals.

*'''Poleaxe''': As the name suggests, it's an axe head on a pole, making it a form of [[pole-arm]]. In many respects, the poleaxe is the swiss-army knife of polearms. Compared to a halberd, it has a smaller head, which focuses kinetic energy onto a smaller area and lets it cut through armor more effectively. The spike on the end of the pole's butt also made it useful for thrusting attacks, and it could be used to block in the same way as a quarterstaff. A hammer or spike was typically mounted opposite to the axe head. In short, if you wanted options when going into combat - particularly armored combat, the poleaxe would serve you well.

*'''Halberd''': Another pole-arm, differing from the poleaxe in the long spike on the top of the axe head and the hook on the back of the axe's blade, which was ideal for pulling a mounted [[knight]] off his horse. It could be used as a [[spear]] as well as an axe in close quarters.

*'''Danish Axe''': An early battleaxe with a single-edged blade with pronounced "horns" at the top and bottom of the blade, also known as a Viking axe. Its blade was rather light and it had similar proportions to a modern meat cleaver, making it excellent for cutting through flesh and bone-the Bayeux Tapestry depicts a warrior decapitating a Norman knight's horse with one blow using it.

*'''Throwing Axe''': These axes were explicitly designed for throwing and are best thrown in an overhead motion- that way the axe head rotates as it flies through the air, preferably into a victim's body. While harder to aim than a throwing knife, it is far more lethal if it connects. The tomahawk and francisca are both forms of throwing axes.

*'''Francisca''': An early throwing axe used primarily by the Franks during the Early Middle Ages. The head is too heavy for it to be useful in melee combat and it's difficult to aim even compared to other throwing axes, but it doesn't need to be accurate- it's capable of causing injury with its weight alone, and it bounces when it hits the ground, giving it a nasty tendency to cripple anyone unfortunate enough to have their legs struck by a bouncing axe. They were commonly thrown in volleys to intimidate and weaken foes before a charge.

*'''Axe Pistol''': A wheellock or flintlock [[firearm|pistol]] with an axe head attached to the end of the barrel used from the 16th to 19th centuries. Pistols of the time were single-shot and very short-ranged (you could only reliably hit a man-sized target up to 30 meters out before it became a complete crapshoot), so they often ended up being used in close quarters as clubs. Adding an axe head to a pistol meant that it had a critical edge over a regular pistol in a brawl, albeit at the cost of a bit more weight, being somewhat more unwieldy as both a pistol or a regular axe of similar size and a somewhat higher price tag than a regular pistol. Then again, the accuracy penalty and increased heft caused by fitting an axe head to the muzzle of a gun that was never intended for long-range shots, and required a lengthy reloading process after every shot, certainly won't be at the front of your mind when your enemies are at arm's length already, so the ability to hack them to pieces right after using your one shot will be very attractive. Axe pistols were used by both cavalry and by sailors.

*'''Bardiche''': Standing on the line between battle axes and glaives is the Russian Bardiche. Used by the Streltsy (troops armed with firearms) as a close combat weapon and as a stand to brace their otherwise cumbersome fire arms on.

*'''Military shovel (AKA "Entrenching Tool" or "E-Tool"'''): Not strictly an axe, but I doubt anyone who's got his head split in half by one is going to be able to argue the difference. It's what you get when you take the broad metal head (preferably sharpened) on a long handle (for a shovel) or a short one (for a spade) and swing the head edge-first at people, effectively turning your humble digging tool into an ersatz but perfectly serviceable axe. During World War I, originally expected to last only a few months in a Napoleon-style clash of armies on the open field, bogged down into the bloody quagmire of trench warfare on the Western Front, the Entrenching Tool (actually a spade) become one of the most important tools a soldier could carry, as the ability to quickly dig a machine gun into place or create a foxhole to shelter from the near-constant artillery fire became a necessity. When attacking enemy trenches, soldiers found that their long rifles with bayonets (created for the purpose of turning a musket into a spear to ward off now-obsolete cavalry charges) too long to be of use, so many of them quickly took their shovels and sharpened one edge to assist in close quarters fighting. Although still used by soldiers primarily for digging trenches and constructing fortifications in the field, the military shovel still finds use as an improvised weapon on occasion, and it helps that sharpening one or both edges of a spade's metal head doesn't hurt its ability to dig foxholes or trenches. Go ahead and model your artillery-and-trench-loving [[Death Korps of Krieg]] troopers with sharpened spades in one hand so they can [[Awesome|split the heads of heretics and Xenos]] for a period-accurate and awesome-looking conversion!

==Double-Headed or Double-Bitted Axes: What A Real Battleaxe Never Looks Like==

[[image:Labrys.jpeg|thumb|300px|right|Examples of Double-Headed Axes, also known as Labrys]]

Listen up, fantasy artists and stupider roleplayers: You see those images at the right? They're called a Labrys, and they're completely unusable for combat. To the extent they were ever used against people, they were used almost exclusively for religious purposes by certain cults in ancient Greek history, or as a symbol of either Greek history (usually by fascists), or as a symbol of femininity (as the Labrys was associated with Goddess worship--look at the shape, and look at a spread female genitalia, and realize the ancients could be quite perverted).

The thing is, they're completely unwieldy for combat, as they weigh twice as much as a "normal" axe, and have worse aerodynamic properties.

So, where did these double-headed axes come from, you may ask (because we do find double-headed axes in archeology sites almost all over the world)? The logging industry. Having an axe that you could cut twice as many trees with before having to return to base to have your blade sharpened is more valuable when you spend most of your day walking around cutting down trees. The doubled weight is also an advantage when what you're cutting doesn't move.

{{MedievalWeaponry}}

Historical References

2017-06-15T14:55:31Z

2001:558:6045:E1:3103:9969:27C1:CAC3: /* Places and People */

This is a hub page for all of our pages on history. This is useful for DMs who want to bring a little more realism into their games, or else look for inspiration by finding some lesser-known feature or weapon that they can use. Or maybe you just want to educate yourself because history is really damn interesting.

Here we've got everything organized by category, so if you have an idea of what you're looking for, click the links below.

==Warfare==
Seeing as how wargaming and jack-n-slashing takes up about 90% of this wiki, you're going to see a lot of references to combat stretching from ancient times to the far future.

===Types of Warriors===
For different flavors of killy people.
*[[Knight]]
*[[Men at Arms]]
*[[Landsknecht]]
*[[Hoplite]]
*[[Samurai]]
*[[Ninja]]
*[[Viking]]
*[[Pirate]]
*[[Gladiator]]

===Small Arms===
For when that motherfucker over there needs to die.
*[[Dagger]]
*[[Sword]]
*[[Spear]]
*[[Lance]]
*[[Polearm]]
*[[Mace]]
*[[Battleaxe]]
*[[Warhammer]]
*[[Bows and Arrows]]
*[[Crossbow]]
*[[Shuriken]]
*[[Sling]]
*[[Firearm]]

===Personal Defense===
For protecting your vulnerable bits from the baddies.
*[[Armor]]
:*[[Mail]]
:*[[Plate armor]]
:*[[Helmet]]
*[[Shield]]

===Siege and Vehicle Warfare===
For when a sword or gun just won't do the job.
*[[Siege Weapon]]
*[[Cannon]]
*[[Rocket]]
*[[Tank]]
*[[Combat Aircraft]]
*[[Warship]]

==Places and People==
For when you want to travel to new and exciting locales and meet (and/or murder) new people.
*[[Roman Empire]]
*[[China]]
*[[Spartans]]
*[[Mongols]]
*[[Nazi]]
*[[British Empire]]

==Other==
For everything else that goes into a setting.
*[[Money]]
*[[Horse]]
*[[Smith]]
*[[Dungeon]]
*[[Guild]]
*[[Castle]]
*[[Slavery]]

[[Category:History]]

Favored Class

2017-06-11T02:52:29Z

2001:558:6045:E1:3103:9969:27C1:CAC3:

{{dnd-stub}}

'''Favored Class''' is a games mechanic native to [[Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition]], which has yet to resurface.

In a nutshell, Favored Class was developed from the principles of Racial Class Restrictions pioneered in [[Advanced Dungeons & Dragons]]: perhaps because of its origins, D&D has traditionally had an issue with pigeonholing races into classes based on what the designers thought were archetypical. For example, all [[gnome]]s will only use illusion magic if they study to become [[wizard]]s, a [[dwarf]] would never use non-[[cleric]]al magic, only a [[human]] has the purity of soul to be a [[paladin]], and so forth.

Needless to say, this idea was [[skub|hugely contentious]] amongst the fanbase.

In recognition of that, when [[Wizards of the Coast]] took over the D&D license and decided to produce a new edition of the game, they decided to junk that rubbish - at least, partially. Fearful of arousing too much [[grognard]] rage, they created the system of the Favored Class, which would encourage players to stay closer to these archetypical classes.

Working off of the new [[multiclassing]] rules, it basically functioned like this: apart from certain rare exceptions, all races had a favored class. If they had levels in this favored class, than either they needed to keep this class highest whilst multiclassing or suffer XP penalties, or levels in it simply did not count towards XP penalties, depending on whether you're talking 3.0 or 3.5.

The mechanic... wasn't exactly well-received. The whole idea of classes being favored bugged some fans, who complained that [[Your Dudes|this didn't match their homebrew campaign's depiction of a given race]], but most focused on the fact that it literally had no effect unless you were multiclassing.

And thus, the mechanic was cancelled with 4th edition's release, and doesn't look like returning any time soon.

However, [[Pathfinder]] had its own variation of the concept. Instead of placing some arbitrary XP handicap on various classes for each race, PF Favored Classes instead allowed for each race to gain a particular minor bonus for each level they take in one class (two for Half-Elves because snowflake), which vary in usefulness from more spells and extra class features to...a situational bonus for a skill test. This is hampered further by the rather vast array of races available to Pathfinder, of which about 60% of the non-core races will lack Favored Class Bonuses for certain classes because Paizo can't be arsed to write for all of them. Of course, these guys aren't entirely SOL as that Class Bonus could still be used for a skill rank (which is pretty much a crutch for classes with abysmal skill ranks like Fighter and Cleric) or a spare point of HP. (a crutch for the classes with low hitdie) It wasn't as widely despised as WotC's iteration, but Paizo's lack of coverage and the flaws in the construction of other things for the classes does hamper the mechanic.

[[Category: Dungeons & Dragons]][[Category: Game Mechanics]]

Dwarf Fortress

2017-05-08T01:04:47Z

2001:558:6045:E1:3103:9969:27C1:CAC3: Generalizing a section.

[[Image:DFlogo2.gif|center]]
 
[[Image:Dorf Fortress.jpg|thumb|You know you want to.]]
'''Dorf Fortress''' (AKA Dwarf Ortress, Dorf Ortress, Dor Fortress, Dwar Fortress, Door Fortress, Dwar Ortress, Dor Ortress, Dorf Fort, Dwarf Fort, Dorf Ort, Dwarf Ort, Dor Fort, Dor Ort, Dwarf Fortress, [[Sly Marbo|AAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!]] or [[Khorne|suicidal tendencies]]) is the best game in the world. It was created in the dawn of time by Toady One. The ostensible objective of the game is to manage a dwarven fortress, but the usual result of playing the game is hilarious failure.

Unlike most sane games, Dwarf Fortress does not actually have a winning condition. Every fortress, no matter how successful, is doomed to a hideous death at some point - in fact, in older versions of the game, the simple act of mining a certain extremely deep and rare ore would start a hidden timer condemning your fortress to certain destruction at the hands of a [[The Lord of the Rings|balrog]] standin, with the game sadly informing you that your dwarves dug too deep, but keeping your fort going long enough to strike that ore was an achievement in and of itself. This inevitability has lead to the fan base's rallying cry: "Losing is Fun!" In fact, in discussions on the topic, the word 'Fun' (especially with capital 'F') is entirely synonymous with 'Hideous Demise' and the things that are likely to cause it, with 'Hidden Fun Stuff' used to refer to the demonic late-game enemies and Hell itself.

The gameplay has an exceptional and frankly obsessive depth of detail. Despite being (by default) ASCII-based and extremely obtuse, like the old roguelikes from which it draws inspiration, huge amounts of information are tracked and considered for just about every aspect of the game - down to minute details such as the exact location and severity of injuries (first joint on left little finger slightly bruised, for example). Combat is complex and messy - a typical dwarven battlefield will be full of bloody stains, severed limbs, discarded weapons and crossbow bolts, and the vomit of the unforunate recipients of abdominal injuries. After-action combat reports give detailed and often hilarious or epic blow-by-blow accounts of the fights that take place, and the player even has the option of entering adventurer mode to explore their world and get in fights themselves, presuming they enjoy being shot by archers off the edge of the visible area.

Dwarf Fortress is still in alpha and under development, kept going solely by donations from fans. The official game's ASCII-based display of inscrutable letters and symbols confuses the shit out of [[:/v/|fucking casuals]], but unfortunately an unofficial tile graphics version is available [http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/df.php here]. However, it does have a few minor quirks since the actual game does not yet fully support tile graphics.

Posting a Dwarf Fortress thread on [[/tg/]] is a great way to effortlessly [[troll]] a few people, [[Games Workshop|confuse others]], and cause [[Indrick Boreale|multiple, simultaneous and devastating]] orgasms in [[neckbeards]].

==Creatures of Dwarf Fortress==

===Dorfs===
[[Dwarves|Dorfs]] (singular: [[Dwarf|Dorf]]) are awesome short beardy guys that like to dig.
<gallery>
Image:Dfcomic01.png|Dwarfs are known to come in packs. In packs of FUCKING USELESS <s>VAGRANTS</s> MIGRANTS!
Image:DF_Badass_1.png|Sometimes a proficient macedwarf is able to handle a Bronze Colossus single-handedly. Bronze Colossuses are actually ~7 times taller than dwarves and do not bleed.
Image:DF_Badass_2.jpg|Female dwarfs are the manliest females known to exist.
Image:Eatfloodgate.jpg|Dwarfs are able to use surrounding items as improvised weapons. Btw, where did you get this floodgate? AHHH IT BURNS!
Image:Hermitdorf.jpg|Standard dwarven hermit.
</gallery>

====Nobles====
Nobles are the bane of the land. They require ridiculously luxurious apartments and develop the [[Slaanesh|weirdest fetishes possible]], then require you to make items out of materials neither you nor merchants can provide. And they jail the most skilled workers for not fulfilling their every desire.

[http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Unfortunate_accident Killing nobles] in the most spectacular way possible is one of the most well-known and lulziest entertainments in Dwarf Fortress.
<gallery>
Image:DF_Noble_Fetishists.png
Image:DF_Gentlenobles.jpg
</gallery>

====Artifacts====
Dwarves get so called "Strange Moods" once in a while. When in this state, they will claim a workshop for the job they are most proficient in, get some (often obscure) materials and start working on them.

If a dwarf does not get the materials he needs in time, he goes mad and starts biting. If he does, he will create some hilariously described items.
<gallery>
Image:DF_artifact_(1).jpg|The cup menaces with the spikes of steel!
Image:DF_artifact_(2).jpg
Image:Dire_Cake.jpg
</gallery>

====Fire Cults====
Dwarves have strong affection to fire, magma and generally anything that burns. The hotter it is, the better.

The only rational reason behind it can be some suicide fire worshiping sect.
<gallery>
Image:Elephant final solution.jpg|Drown the world with magma. Its the only way to be sure.
Image:DF_Magma.jpg|Dwarf loev magma.
Image:Magmalever.gif|Urist, what do your dwarf eyes see?
Image:DF_Pants.jpg|Those pants are going to make a valuable addition to my Pants On Fire collection!
Image:Boatmurdered_flame.jpg|Dwarfs don't know that fire burns, so they pick up burning items and bring them to the stockpiles.
Image:DF_FIRE.png
Image:Dwarf_title_boo_radley_anonib.gif|A dwarf on fire. Completely unrealistic, in that the dwarf has noticed.
Image:Fire.png|He would put out that fire. But he's on break.
</gallery>

===Elves===
[[Elves]] (singular: [[elf]]) are gay, cannibal treehuggers whose only use is elven bone bolts. You must open your magma death trap and kill them all or you will be EAT BY ELFS.
<gallery>
Image:DF_Elf_Diplomat_1.png|Elves send diplomats...
Image:DF_Elf_Diplomat_2.png|...to ensure you don't cut down too many trees.
Image:DF_elf.jpg|Ha-ha.
</gallery>

===Cats===
[[Cats]] are the bane of your existence. You must slaughter all of them before they outbreed you and cause you to suffocate since all the air is filled with cats (catsphyxiation?).
<gallery>
Image:DF_Cats_1.png
Image:DF_cats_2.png
Image:DF_Cats_3.png|Trust your feelings, you know it to be the only solution.
Image:1194770522105.jpg|Artist's rendition of a "catsplosion;" from beginning to devastating end.
</gallery>

===Forgotten Beasts===
[[Carp|Forgotten Beasts]] are [[Grey Knights|badass motherfuckers]]. Some of them would make a [[Tarrasque]] look like a crying little girl. Their main prey is Dwarves. If any dwarf draws near a cavern, they are immediately at risk of being consumed by the horror. If you see Forgotten Beasts, WALL OFF ALL OF THEM IMMEDIATELY OR SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES.
<gallery>
Image:Dfcomic03.png|Getting fishdwarfs lost to carp can bring the fortress down in one huge outburst of violence.
Image:DF_Carp_1.jpg
Image:DF_Carp_2.jpg|Magma is the answer. Magma is ''always'' the answer.
</gallery>

===Elephants===
'''Elephants''' used to be demonic creatures of the plains. They mercilessly killed your Dwarves and then killed the Dwarves that rush out of the fortress to loot the body of their fallen comrade. Elephants nevert forgot, and never forgave, and they never slept. They spent every moment of every day plotting the downfall of your fortress.

Eventually elephants were turned into much more peaceful beings in the newer versions of the game, so now you can settle near savanna and have your revenge. The vacant place of dwarf-murderer was taken by the vicious [[Dwarf_Fortress#Carp|carp]].

In a strange turn of events thanks to the latest update, Elephants have fallen from the noble title of "bane of dwarves" to [[Derp|a creature that literally starves to death while eating 24/7,]] thanks to some coding...flaws. Ironically, despite the game making them more peaceful, real-life Elephants are most like the original "train of pachyderm death" portrayal (particularly the African elephants, which are bigger, more aggressive and have longer tusks than the Indian ones).

<gallery>
Image:DF_Elephant.png|That's how it all happens.
Image:DF_Elephant_Engraving.jpg|Fortress Walls are engraved with this kind of pictures.
Image:Dwarf_dorf_anonib.png
Image:DF_Skeletal_Elephant.jpg|Skeletal Elephant. Deadly death of death.
</gallery>

===Giant Sponges===
A recent addition to Dwarf Fortress, the '''giant sponge''' has become more feared than even the carp. A giant sponge can easily wipe out an entire army of dwarves with a single charge, which is rather peculiar as they are completely immobile. And they're virtually invincible, as their lack of any organs or blood allows them to harmlessly absorb blows that would kill anything else several times over. How they are able to kill anything with their soft, squishy bodies is a mystery nobody is willing to risk trying to solve. Unfortunately, the most recent update led to the slaying of a giant sponge via crushing it with a maul.

While common Giant Sponges can "drown" out of water, ''undead'' Giant Sponges are [[Nagash|fucking immortal]]. Setting it on fire will just create a giant torch of undead death. If you see one, say your last farewells to your <s>crazy stupid</s> brave dorfs.

The good news is now giant sponges are now hilariously vulnerable to getting flattened by mundane attacks. They're still just as lethal, so they're glass cannons now. And since undead are now vulnerable only to getting pulped instead of randomly dying after enough hits, undead giant sponges are basically normal sponges, only amphibious.

<gallery>
Image:Sponge.gif|Without a nervous system, the only thing it can feel is ANGER!
</gallery>

==The Rip-offs==
The chief problem with Dwarf Fortress, from the perspective of marketing, is that the interface is so goddamn hard to understand. Thus, a few developers have got it in their head to make "Dwarf Fortress, but playable by mere mortals". Here are a few identified so far:

* Gnomoria. While many long-time Dwarf Fortress player despise Gnomoria for stealing a dragon's-hoard-worth of features from Dwarf Fortress and subsequently departing from the Roguelike genre, it does have redeeming qualities. Namely as a Dwarf Fortress lite. It has a point-and-click interface (more so than DF), an isometric view, full-color GUI, a (relatively) simpler economy and production system, in-game explanations for several gameplay elements, and less options in general. However, there is a project ongoing to give dwarf fortress isometric graphics. (It costs about 8 bucks on Steam currently, so it isn't free, but that's the price you have to pay for being a [[Cato Sicarius|namby-pamby prissy little princess]] who needs training wheels on their Dwarven experience the first few go-arounds.)

* Rimworld, a game which is basically DORF FORTRESS IN SPESS, almost as detailed, though it features no dwarves (or considering it's in space, no [[squats]]). Available on Steam, and has a thriving modding community which does everything from basic changes to incredibly handy utilities to overhauls.

==See Also==
*[[Boatmurdered|The legend of Boatmurdered.]]
*[[Kobold Camp]]
*[[Dwarf Fortress/Goblin Garrison|Goblin Garrison]]
*[[Space Station 13]], which is kind of like this, but IN SPAAAACE, and you play as one of the dwarfs.
*[[Minecraft]], because that game is ''so'' [[rage|similar.]]
*[[Unified_Setting/Dwarf]] for how /tg/ can summarize the little beardy buggers.
*[[Journal of Kith|Some old journal]] written by a dorfan explorer.

==External Links==
;Official
*[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ Official Site]
*[http://df.magmawiki.com/ Dedicated wiki]
*[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ Download it here]
You can find instructions on using it in the recent releases on the Discussion page of this article.
*[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ Development news]

;Improvements
*[http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/df.php Download the unofficial graphical tileset here]
*[http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2431 An version with a graphical tileset already installed]

;Sagas
*[http://lparchive.org/Dwarf-Fortress-Boatmurdered/ The Saga of Boatmurdered]
*[http://oilfurnace.timdenee.com/ The Illustrated Saga of Oilfurnace]
*[http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Stories/Bronzemurder The Illustrated Fall of Bronzemurder]

==Gallery==

<gallery>
Image:Boatmurdered.jpg|[[Boatmurdered]] is the most famous dwarf fortress ever to exist.
Image:DF_Boatmurdered_2.jpg
Image:DF_Cheese.jpg|Dwarfs are known to engrave weirdest things imaginable on the walls of the fortress.
Image:Bronzecolossus.jpg|Say, like this.
Image:Thedwarfisembracingthecow.jpg|They also embrace animals during parties they throw instead of working.
Image:Dwarf_rollingrocks_anonib.png|Dwarf press.
Image:DF_Onbreak.jpg|If the squad leader is on break, then the squad is on break as well.
Image:DF_Demon.png|That's what you get for digging too deep.
Image:Babyinabarrel.jpg|How the hell did that even happen?
Image:Dwarf_mechanicook_anonib.jpg
Image:Dwarf_year1_anonib.jpg
Image:DwarfPsion_anonib.jpg
Image:DwarfFortress_is_fun.png|There's casual, there's hardcore, then there's DF.
File:Dorf demotivator.png|And can you believe that this is just the start?
</gallery>

[[Category:Dwarf Fortress]]
[[Category:Video Games]]
[[Category:Dwarves]]
[[Category:Software]]

Fantasy Armor

2017-03-30T14:02:34Z

2001:558:6045:E1:3103:9969:27C1:CAC3: ...I'm not endorsing this beating of the joke, but I'd like to at least have the original joke be somewhat clear.

{{editwar}}
{{skub}}
{{Promotions}}

Fantasy armor has a long and noble tradition of [[awesome|awesomeness]] and [[skub|lively debates]]. Many kind of fantastic armor, such as sexy bear skin speedos, chain mail bikinis, massive codpieces, ridiculously massive suits of plate mail, armor made of gold or even gems, and other overly elaborate forms of armor are all standard equipment for adventuring parties. Threads dedicated to fabulous and ridiculous armors are a common sight on /tg/, and discussions regarding people's favorite type of armor are also a common way to pass the time, [[cancer|although doing so has a risk of starting an ugly political debate over issues best not discussed on this page]].

Most agree that even the most over-the-top armor designs aren't a huge problem for anything other than historically accurate settings, and in terms of the [[crunch]] it simply doesn't matter, as the stats and the design do not need to be linked in any way- after all, the key word is "fantasy".

==Common Types==
As you may see with the images to the side, fantasy doesn't need its armor to be logically sound. Due to this, armor design is usually done more to appease the eye than the mind, Thus armor design and usage that tends to be over-the-top usually leans on the following styles:

===Living Fortress===
The character is so excessively armored with large pieces of armor that you must wonder how they can even walk unassisted without falling over. Usually done to give characters a stoic and/or intimidating look. Issues such as avoiding heatstroke and being unable to go to the toilet in that armor are usually sidestepped in fiction (irl these two downsides were often part of the price of wearing this much armor), but then those issues are almost never addressed in fiction anyway.

===Bare Minimum===
Not an armor type so much as a lack thereof. Characters in this style typically wear just enough to keep them from being classified as naked (think "Red Sonja" and you'll get the idea). Traditionally given to characters who favor speed over protection (or fanservice, depending on the setting), it is also sometimes given to those who use some kind of supernatural protection against damage to supplement their armor or simply happen to be so good at withstanding/dodging attacks that they don't normally need to worry about being hurt in the first place. The average magic user is a good example of this, given that the traditional wizard robes are just natural fiber clothing and aren't usually much better in terms of their protective value (enchantments and other forms of magical protection notwithstanding).

It should be noted that the "almost naked female armor" is not actually as common as some people want you to believe. The worst offenders are usually fantasy pinups and JRPGs (and in the latter case, often applies to both men and women); for tabletop RPGs and most videogames, they're actually uncommon.

===Flash to the Extreme===
The character's armor is excessively decorated and designed in an over-the-top manner (ranging from bright colors to it being encrusted in precious gems and metals) that they basically scream: "walking target" and/or "mobile treasure chest" when out into the field. Usually given to the upper hierarchy of a setting to denote either their position or wealth. [[Chaos Space Marine|Large spikes]] count as an "evil" version of this; while they can make a villain look intimidating, they'd also be getting in the way, either poking yourself or your allies ''constantly''.

===Style over Substance===
The character's armor includes elements that reduce its practicality in favor of looking flashy or appealing. Such features are found almost entirely on female armor and includes high heels, contoured breastplates, no clear means of fastening it together, thigh-high boots, and a lack of padding. Then again, one can easily point to countless real-world examples of the above-mentioned traits (Yes, even heels - riding a horse with stirrups is much easier wearing boots with heels), but most of the time were usually reserved for ceremonial armor and not optimized for combat.

===Fear Me===
The character's armor is specially designed to intimidate their enemies, either by just looking menacing or realizing what the armor is, is enough to inspire dread. This is typically reserved for villains, who will dress all evil-like to intimidate their foes and cement their position as a, or ''the'', big bad. The good guys sometimes use this style, as an attempt to show his allies and the enemy he means business. This can take a variety of forms, such as:
*Dreadful armor - simply designed to intimidate foes while looking dignified. They make take the shape of beings feared throughout the setting, like dragons, wolves, angelic/daemonic warriors, or what else have you. While sometimes they're adorned with iconography that their enemies would fear.

*Eldritch abomination - armor that looks like something H.P Lovecraft would make. Such style incorporates features that are designed to either disgust or horrify the enemy [[Chaos Space Marines|at the mere thought that something like them could exist.]] Typically used by big bads, who either have armor writhing like its alive or have fused with their armor like its their second skin.

== The Main Source of Skub ==

Female armor is the main source of [[skub]] when Armor is discussed. Three points are probably indisputable:

# The forces that produce cheesecake outfits in Real Life probably exist in your game world.
# The realities of combat also probably exist in your game world, which directly counteracts #1.
# The armor worn by women in Fantasy Art veers strongly towards the cheesecake side of the line.
# In the real world, there were actual suits of armor that had some ''very'' goofy looking codpieces; [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor_of_Ferdinand_I,_Holy_Roman_Emperor here's one famous example].
# In the real world, practical armor is fairly unisex--breasts just don't get as much in the way as you might expect, particularly once you start adding the necessary padding.
* Yes, we know that's five points, when we said three are indisputable. Which of three of the above five are indisputable is widely disputed.

For example, point number two, for example, is dependent on how much of a roleplayer vs. [[rollplaying|rollplayer]] you are. You wouldn't care much about how well armor covers you if it's +3 defense regardless of hit location. You'll also have people argue that artistic license is more important than adherence to reality when it comes to fiction since it's not supposed to be a literal interpretation of reality anyway, but by that point you're entering a philosophical debate.

Beyond those few points, expect to see nothing but bullshit, and maybe a few well meaning but absolutely wrong "Best Practices" suggestions.

== A Mild Digression about Ceremonial Armor ==

In Real Life, armor was usually divided into practical and Ceremonial armor. Practical armor was intended to be used (protect a guy from that spear or knife in the middle of a melee). Ceremonial armor was intended to look good. This resulted in occasional wild differences between the two, such as the ridiculous codpieces mentioned above.

Fantasy armor is usually inspired by the Ceremonial armor, as that's what was usually put into artistic depictions.

== The Warhammer Line ==

As a side note, if your armor is as or more ridiculous than Warhammer's (either [[Warhammer 40,000 | 40k]] or [[Warhammer Fantasy Battle | Fantasy]]), expect to be mocked. Yes, this means you, generic anime-inspired MMORPG, and you, [[That Guy]] who uses a screenshot from said MMORPG as his character portrait.

==See Also==
*[[Armor]]
*[[Pauldrons]]

==Gallery==
<center><gallery>
File:Skelerotic Warrior.png|It separates, AND supports!
File:Bikini-Armor-Cosplay.jpg|This armor protects the most vital parts of the body.
File:Megnets.jpg|Perfectly safe, proven by practical evidence.
File:Armour of Bulk.png|[[Centurion Squad|The Centurion armored suit]]. An armor system where [[Derp|the guy wearing powered armor wears another powered armor suit on top of it]].
</gallery></center>

[[Category:Meme]]

Fantasy Armor

2017-03-30T12:31:38Z

2001:558:6045:E1:3103:9969:27C1:CAC3: I hope the "The Main Source of Skub" is a fairly neutral way of summarizing the cause of the arguments. I also bring you the Warhammer line and a digression about Ceremonial Armor.

{{editwar}}
{{skub}}
{{Promotions}}

Fantasy armor has a long and noble tradition of [[awesome|awesomeness]] and [[skub|lively debates]]. Many kind of fantastic armor, such as sexy bear skin speedos, chain mail bikinis, massive codpieces, ridiculously massive suits of plate mail, armor made of gold or even gems, and other overly elaborate forms of armor are all standard equipment for adventuring parties. Threads dedicated to fabulous and ridiculous armors are a common sight on /tg/, and discussions regarding people's favorite type of armor are also a common way to pass the time, [[cancer|although doing so has a risk of starting an ugly political debate over issues best not discussed on this page]].

Most agree that even the most over-the-top armor designs aren't a huge problem for anything other than historically accurate settings, and in terms of the [[crunch]] it simply doesn't matter, as the stats and the design do not need to be linked in any way- after all, the key word is "fantasy".

==Common Types==
As you may see with the images to the side, fantasy doesn't need its armor to be logically sound. Due to this, armor design is usually done more to appease the eye than the mind, Thus armor design and usage that tends to be over-the-top usually leans on the following styles:

===Living Fortress===
The character is so excessively armored with large pieces of armor that you must wonder how they can even walk unassisted without falling over. Usually done to give characters a stoic and/or intimidating look. Issues such as avoiding heatstroke and being unable to go to the toilet in that armor are usually sidestepped in fiction (irl these two downsides were often part of the price of wearing this much armor), but then those issues are almost never addressed in fiction anyway.

===Bare Minimum===
Not an armor type so much as a lack thereof. Characters in this style typically wear just enough to keep them from being classified as naked (think "Red Sonja" and you'll get the idea). Traditionally given to characters who favor speed over protection (or fanservice, depending on the setting), it is also sometimes given to those who use some kind of supernatural protection against damage to supplement their armor or simply happen to be so good at withstanding/dodging attacks that they don't normally need to worry about being hurt in the first place. The average magic user is a good example of this, given that the traditional wizard robes are just natural fiber clothing and aren't usually much better in terms of their protective value (enchantments and other forms of magical protection notwithstanding).

It should be noted that the "almost naked female armor" is not actually as common as some people want you to believe. The worst offenders are usually fantasy pinups and JRPGs (and in the latter case, often applies to both men and women); for tabletop RPGs and most videogames, they're actually uncommon.

===Flash to the Extreme===
The character's armor is excessively decorated and designed in an over-the-top manner (ranging from bright colors to it being encrusted in precious gems and metals) that they basically scream: "walking target" and/or "mobile treasure chest" when out into the field. Usually given to the upper hierarchy of a setting to denote either their position or wealth. [[Chaos Space Marine|Large spikes]] count as an "evil" version of this; while they can make a villain look intimidating, they'd also be getting in the way, either poking yourself or your allies ''constantly''.

===Style over Substance===
The character's armor includes elements that reduce its practicality in favor of looking flashy or appealing. Such features are found almost entirely on female armor and includes high heels, contoured breastplates, no clear means of fastening it together, thigh-high boots, and a lack of padding. Then again, one can easily point to countless real-world examples of the above-mentioned traits (Yes, even heels - riding a horse with stirrups is much easier wearing boots with heels), but most of the time were usually reserved for ceremonial armor and not optimized for combat.

===Fear Me===
The character's armor is specially designed to intimidate their enemies, either by just looking menacing or realizing what the armor is, is enough to inspire dread. This is typically reserved for villains, who will dress all evil-like to intimidate their foes and cement their position as a, or ''the'', big bad. The good guys sometimes use this style, as an attempt to show his allies and the enemy he means business. This can take a variety of forms, such as:
*Dreadful armor - simply designed to intimidate foes while looking dignified. They make take the shape of beings feared throughout the setting, like dragons, wolves, angelic/daemonic warriors, or what else have you. While sometimes they're adorned with iconography that their enemies would fear.

*Eldritch abomination - armor that looks like something H.P Lovecraft would make. Such style incorporates features that are designed to either disgust or horrify the enemy [[Chaos Space Marines|at the mere thought that something like them could exist.]] Typically used by big bads, who either have armor writhing like its alive or have fused with their armor like its their second skin.

== The Main Source of Skub ==

Female armor is the main source of [[skub]] when Armor is discussed. Three points are probably indisputable:

# The forces that produce cheesecake outfits in Real Life probably exist in your game world.
# The realities of combat also probably exist in your game world, which directly counteracts #1.
# The armor worn by women in Fantasy Art veers strongly towards the cheesecake side of the line.
# In the real world, there were actual suits of armor that had some ''very'' goofy looking codpieces; [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor_of_Ferdinand_I,_Holy_Roman_Emperor here's one famous example].
# In the real world, practical armor is fairly unisex--breasts just don't get as much in the way as you might expect, particularly once you start adding the necessary padding.
* Yes, we know that's five points, when we said three are indisputable. Which of three of the above five are indisputable is widely disputed.

Beyond those few points, expect to see nothing but bullshit, and maybe a few well meaning but absolutely wrong "Best Practices" suggestions.

== A Mild Digression about Ceremonial Armor ==

In Real Life, armor was usually divided into practical and Ceremonial armor. Practical armor was intended to be used (protect a guy from that spear or knife in the middle of a melee). Ceremonial armor was intended to look good. This resulted in occasional wild differences between the two, such as the ridiculous codpieces mentioned above.

Fantasy armor is usually inspired by the Ceremonial armor, as that's what was usually put into artistic depictions.

== The Warhammer Line ==

As a side note, if your armor is as or more ridiculous than Warhammer's (either [[Warhammer 40,000 | 40k]] or [[Warhammer Fantasy Battle | Fantasy]]), expect to be mocked. Yes, this means you, generic anime-inspired MMORPG, and you, [[That Guy]] who uses a screenshot from said MMORPG as his character portrait.

==See Also==
*[[Armor]]
*[[Pauldrons]]

==Gallery==
<center><gallery>
File:Skelerotic Warrior.png|It separates, AND supports!
File:Bikini-Armor-Cosplay.jpg|This armor protects the most vital parts of the body.
File:Megnets.jpg|Perfectly safe, proven by practical evidence.
File:Armour of Bulk.png|[[Centurion Squad|The Centurion armored suit]]. An armor system where [[Derp|the guy wearing powered armor wears another powered armor suit on top of it]].
</gallery></center>

[[Category:Meme]]

Armor

2017-03-23T10:42:50Z

2001:558:6045:E1:3103:9969:27C1:CAC3: /* See also */

'''''Armor''''' (also spelled Armour) is a protective layer of material used to protect something from damage. Some types of armor includes armor for buildings, armor for vehicles and armor for personnel (generally referred to as body armor). This will focus mostly on body armor.

== Types of Body Armor ==
Numerous forms of body armor have been developed over the millennia by civilizations with various levels of technology and resources on hand.

*Leather armor - not just any leather would do; soft leather offers no protection against blades. You need hard, boiled leather to be effective. It's a matter of heated debates whether it actually even existed historically, as it's highly impractical and too expensive compared to padded cloth while offering largely the same or even lower level of protection. The general consensus is that it surely didn't have any noticeable presence in Europe, and while in the East (both middle and far) it did exist, it wasn't that much popular and widespread either.
*Padded cloth armor - Cloth bundled in sufficient thickness was one of the first forms of armor, since bronze armors tended to be too expensive or too heavy to be widely used, and bronze weapons weren't all that great at cutting to begin with. Cloth continued to be used mostly as padding underneath metal armor, to help absorb blows and all through the middle ages continued to be the go to protection for men-at-arms in lieu of expensive metal plate or mail. Despite what you might think it was quite effective, even against arrows and blades that weren't razor-sharp (and no one sane ever sharpened anything bigger than dagger to razor sharpness), and when things came to crushing blows it was actually the only armor that offered any protection at all.
*Paper armor - this one sounds crazy, but apparently it was actually a thing in ancient China. The Mythbusters tested it out and it might have been actually effective... at least, so long as it doesn't rain.
*Scale armor - an early form of mail, using overlapping metal plates rather than rings. The scales would overlap in a similar fashion to roofing tiles.
*Bamboo armor - basically wooden armor, but with the advantage in that you can shape bamboo more easily.
*Mirror armor - an early form of plate, this was a small round bronze plate attached to the torso. Besides physical protection, it was also believed to ward off the supernatural.
*[[Mail]] - the most common and effective type of armor from the ancient world to the middle ages. Flexible and easy (though time-consuming) to make, it was widely used by many cultures. It was also significantly easier to repair, as a break could easily be mended by replacing a few rings, whereas a hole in plate armor might require a complete replacement. While fairly effective against foot soldiers, the crossbow and the lance charge required knights to wear extra armor over mail for additional protection.
*Plated Mail - this is not what some sourcebooks refer to as platemail, which is basically just plate armor worn over a mail hauberk. Plated mail integrates metal plates into the rest of the mail pattern, ranging from large rectangular plates on areas like the chest, to small plates arranged like fish scales on areas that require more dexterity, such as near the shoulders and back. This was popular with medieval Persians and Indians.
*Laminar armor - armor made from bands of metal. The most famous example is the ancient Roman [[wikipedia:Lorica_segmentata|Lorica Segmentata]].
*Lamellar armor - armor made from overlapping pieces of leather or metal, each piece being laced side-by-side.
*[[Samurai]] armor - depending on the period, it could be lamellar, laminar, or even plate. The helmet (kabuto) had a distinct shape that often featured ornaments and even a removable facemask (Darth Vader's helmet is said to be a hybrid of a kabuto and a German stahlhelm).
*Brigandine - Sort of like Lamellar, except the pieces of metal are riveted into a leather jacket rather than laced together.
*[[Plate armor]] - armor made from single, solid pieces of metal. Bronze plate armor had been used in ancient times, but was limited to helmets and sometimes breastplates due to the weight of the armor. Full suits of plate armor were not possible until improvements in smithing allowed for large bars of steel to be hammered out into single pieces.
*Flak Jackets - The first modern armor to be developed, Flak Jackets were developed in WWII out of high-strength nylon to protect aircrews from fragments fired from flak cannons. Before the invention of Kevlar and ballistic vests, this was the only kind of armor available to modern soldiers.
*Ceramic armor - typically, ceramic plates are used as an energy-absorbing component in some ballistic vests. These are typically single-use only.
*Ballistic vests - cloth vests able to stop bullets of varying sizes using high-strength cloth that wraps itself around the bullet, thereby bringing them to a halt. May contain metal or ceramic components to increase effectiveness.
*Blast suits - full-body armors capable of absorbing the heat and shrapnel of a bomb blast. The only part that isn't protected are the hands, so if a bomb goes off you may be maimed - but at least you're not dead! May also include a closed air supply in the case of biological or chemical bombs. Commonly worn by EOD technicians.

==Anatomy of armor==
[[File:HenryVIIIArmor.jpg|right|thumb|300px|You thought we were joking about the dick armor?]]
Basic terminology of the different parts of armor. Unless you were very wealthy, such as a knight, not everyone had every part of their body covered in armor.

*[[Helmet]] - protects the head, one of the most common pieces of armor.
*Gambeson - padded cloth armor suit worn underneath metal armor to absorb blunt force and protect the wearer from the armor itself (metal and boiled leather aren't nice to unprotected humans skin, especially under extreme temperatures). Later variants often reinforced with sown-in mail in places actual metal armor above it have gaps and joints.
*Cuirass - protects the torso. If its made from a single piece of metal, it is a breastplate. Most breastplate are associated with full-body steel plate armor, but ancient Greeks had a bronze version called the "heroic Cuirass", or the Roman "Lorica Musculata", often molded with fake muscles and various decorations.
:*Plackart - lower torso reinforcement that would overlap with a breastplate for extra protection, and connected to the faulds.
:*Faulds - a metal skirt attached to the breastplate, allowing some leg protection while offering mobility.
*Gorget - protects the neck. With certain helmets, such as the Sallet, the gorget protected the lower head where the helmet did not.
*[[Pauldrons]] - protect the shoulders. The real life versions are nowhere near as big as those on space marines.
*Gauntlets - protect the arms.
*Greaves - protect the legs.
*Sabatons - protect the feet (you don't want some smartass spearman stabbing at your unarmored feet now, would you?)
*Codpiece - Yes, believe it or not, you could get dick armor too. Ordinarily this was just to armor the groin area like an athletic cup, but some people like King Henry VIII made massive codpieces to show off how well-endowed they were.
*Tabard - Technically not armor, but was the decorative sleeveless coat that would drape over the armor of knights. Besides being used as an identifier through the knight's heraldry, it also shielded armor from the desert sun so that the knight wouldn't boil in their own armor.

== Armor in tabletop games ==

==Gallery==
<gallery>
Image:Musclecuirass.JPG| Greek bronze Muscle Cuirass
Image:Linothorax.jpg| Greek Linothorax, a bronze-reinforced linen armor
Image:Roman Soldier mail.jpg|Roman Mail
Image:LoricaSegmentata.jpg|Roman Lorica Segmentata, a type of Laminar
Image:MirrorArmor.JPG|Mirror armor over a mail shirt
Image:ScaleArmor.JPG|Indian Scale armor
Image:Plated mail.jpg|Indian Plated Mail
Image:Lamellar.JPG|Japanese Lamellar
Image:Samurai armor.jpg|Japanese Laminar
Image:Gambeson.jpg| European Gambeson, a padded cloth armor used by both commoners and knights
Image:Brigandine.jpg|European Brigandine
Image:Plate armor.jpg|European Plate
Image:FlakJacket.png| Flak Jacket
Image:BallisticVest.JPG|Ballistic Vest
Image:Bombsuit.jpg|Bombsuit
</gallery>

== See also ==
*[[Fantasy Armor]] for one of the usual flame wars involved in "armor".
*[[Power Armor]]
*[[Flak Armor]]
*[[Armor Save]]

[[category: History]]

Armor

2017-03-23T10:42:19Z

2001:558:6045:E1:3103:9969:27C1:CAC3: /* See also */

'''''Armor''''' (also spelled Armour) is a protective layer of material used to protect something from damage. Some types of armor includes armor for buildings, armor for vehicles and armor for personnel (generally referred to as body armor). This will focus mostly on body armor.

== Types of Body Armor ==
Numerous forms of body armor have been developed over the millennia by civilizations with various levels of technology and resources on hand.

*Leather armor - not just any leather would do; soft leather offers no protection against blades. You need hard, boiled leather to be effective. It's a matter of heated debates whether it actually even existed historically, as it's highly impractical and too expensive compared to padded cloth while offering largely the same or even lower level of protection. The general consensus is that it surely didn't have any noticeable presence in Europe, and while in the East (both middle and far) it did exist, it wasn't that much popular and widespread either.
*Padded cloth armor - Cloth bundled in sufficient thickness was one of the first forms of armor, since bronze armors tended to be too expensive or too heavy to be widely used, and bronze weapons weren't all that great at cutting to begin with. Cloth continued to be used mostly as padding underneath metal armor, to help absorb blows and all through the middle ages continued to be the go to protection for men-at-arms in lieu of expensive metal plate or mail. Despite what you might think it was quite effective, even against arrows and blades that weren't razor-sharp (and no one sane ever sharpened anything bigger than dagger to razor sharpness), and when things came to crushing blows it was actually the only armor that offered any protection at all.
*Paper armor - this one sounds crazy, but apparently it was actually a thing in ancient China. The Mythbusters tested it out and it might have been actually effective... at least, so long as it doesn't rain.
*Scale armor - an early form of mail, using overlapping metal plates rather than rings. The scales would overlap in a similar fashion to roofing tiles.
*Bamboo armor - basically wooden armor, but with the advantage in that you can shape bamboo more easily.
*Mirror armor - an early form of plate, this was a small round bronze plate attached to the torso. Besides physical protection, it was also believed to ward off the supernatural.
*[[Mail]] - the most common and effective type of armor from the ancient world to the middle ages. Flexible and easy (though time-consuming) to make, it was widely used by many cultures. It was also significantly easier to repair, as a break could easily be mended by replacing a few rings, whereas a hole in plate armor might require a complete replacement. While fairly effective against foot soldiers, the crossbow and the lance charge required knights to wear extra armor over mail for additional protection.
*Plated Mail - this is not what some sourcebooks refer to as platemail, which is basically just plate armor worn over a mail hauberk. Plated mail integrates metal plates into the rest of the mail pattern, ranging from large rectangular plates on areas like the chest, to small plates arranged like fish scales on areas that require more dexterity, such as near the shoulders and back. This was popular with medieval Persians and Indians.
*Laminar armor - armor made from bands of metal. The most famous example is the ancient Roman [[wikipedia:Lorica_segmentata|Lorica Segmentata]].
*Lamellar armor - armor made from overlapping pieces of leather or metal, each piece being laced side-by-side.
*[[Samurai]] armor - depending on the period, it could be lamellar, laminar, or even plate. The helmet (kabuto) had a distinct shape that often featured ornaments and even a removable facemask (Darth Vader's helmet is said to be a hybrid of a kabuto and a German stahlhelm).
*Brigandine - Sort of like Lamellar, except the pieces of metal are riveted into a leather jacket rather than laced together.
*[[Plate armor]] - armor made from single, solid pieces of metal. Bronze plate armor had been used in ancient times, but was limited to helmets and sometimes breastplates due to the weight of the armor. Full suits of plate armor were not possible until improvements in smithing allowed for large bars of steel to be hammered out into single pieces.
*Flak Jackets - The first modern armor to be developed, Flak Jackets were developed in WWII out of high-strength nylon to protect aircrews from fragments fired from flak cannons. Before the invention of Kevlar and ballistic vests, this was the only kind of armor available to modern soldiers.
*Ceramic armor - typically, ceramic plates are used as an energy-absorbing component in some ballistic vests. These are typically single-use only.
*Ballistic vests - cloth vests able to stop bullets of varying sizes using high-strength cloth that wraps itself around the bullet, thereby bringing them to a halt. May contain metal or ceramic components to increase effectiveness.
*Blast suits - full-body armors capable of absorbing the heat and shrapnel of a bomb blast. The only part that isn't protected are the hands, so if a bomb goes off you may be maimed - but at least you're not dead! May also include a closed air supply in the case of biological or chemical bombs. Commonly worn by EOD technicians.

==Anatomy of armor==
[[File:HenryVIIIArmor.jpg|right|thumb|300px|You thought we were joking about the dick armor?]]
Basic terminology of the different parts of armor. Unless you were very wealthy, such as a knight, not everyone had every part of their body covered in armor.

*[[Helmet]] - protects the head, one of the most common pieces of armor.
*Gambeson - padded cloth armor suit worn underneath metal armor to absorb blunt force and protect the wearer from the armor itself (metal and boiled leather aren't nice to unprotected humans skin, especially under extreme temperatures). Later variants often reinforced with sown-in mail in places actual metal armor above it have gaps and joints.
*Cuirass - protects the torso. If its made from a single piece of metal, it is a breastplate. Most breastplate are associated with full-body steel plate armor, but ancient Greeks had a bronze version called the "heroic Cuirass", or the Roman "Lorica Musculata", often molded with fake muscles and various decorations.
:*Plackart - lower torso reinforcement that would overlap with a breastplate for extra protection, and connected to the faulds.
:*Faulds - a metal skirt attached to the breastplate, allowing some leg protection while offering mobility.
*Gorget - protects the neck. With certain helmets, such as the Sallet, the gorget protected the lower head where the helmet did not.
*[[Pauldrons]] - protect the shoulders. The real life versions are nowhere near as big as those on space marines.
*Gauntlets - protect the arms.
*Greaves - protect the legs.
*Sabatons - protect the feet (you don't want some smartass spearman stabbing at your unarmored feet now, would you?)
*Codpiece - Yes, believe it or not, you could get dick armor too. Ordinarily this was just to armor the groin area like an athletic cup, but some people like King Henry VIII made massive codpieces to show off how well-endowed they were.
*Tabard - Technically not armor, but was the decorative sleeveless coat that would drape over the armor of knights. Besides being used as an identifier through the knight's heraldry, it also shielded armor from the desert sun so that the knight wouldn't boil in their own armor.

== Armor in tabletop games ==

==Gallery==
<gallery>
Image:Musclecuirass.JPG| Greek bronze Muscle Cuirass
Image:Linothorax.jpg| Greek Linothorax, a bronze-reinforced linen armor
Image:Roman Soldier mail.jpg|Roman Mail
Image:LoricaSegmentata.jpg|Roman Lorica Segmentata, a type of Laminar
Image:MirrorArmor.JPG|Mirror armor over a mail shirt
Image:ScaleArmor.JPG|Indian Scale armor
Image:Plated mail.jpg|Indian Plated Mail
Image:Lamellar.JPG|Japanese Lamellar
Image:Samurai armor.jpg|Japanese Laminar
Image:Gambeson.jpg| European Gambeson, a padded cloth armor used by both commoners and knights
Image:Brigandine.jpg|European Brigandine
Image:Plate armor.jpg|European Plate
Image:FlakJacket.png| Flak Jacket
Image:BallisticVest.JPG|Ballistic Vest
Image:Bombsuit.jpg|Bombsuit
</gallery>

== See also ==
*[[Fantasy Armor]] for the source of the usual flame wars.
*[[Power Armor]]
*[[Flak Armor]]
*[[Armor Save]]

[[category: History]]