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Age of Sigmar/Tactics/Order/Daughters of Khaine

2020-03-24T17:47:41Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:187:B744:68E8:D674: /* Pros */

{{Age of Sigmar Faction|Faction=Daughters of Khaine|Logo=Daughters_of_Khaine_battletome_art.jpg|Alliance=Order|Motto=Much bloodier and less NSFW than it appears.}}

==Why play Daughters of Khaine?==

===Pros===

* They are [[Hot Chicks]] and [[Monstergirl|Monstergirls]] in bikinis (except the Doomfire Warlocks and Avatars of Khaine, but those are not mandatory units).
* You like the idea of playing an army of bloodthirsty, fanatical murderers but don't like Khorne.
* Morathi is one of the most powerful models in the game. Her main form is almost at the level of the [[Alarielle the Everqueen|big]] [[Archaon|god-like]] [[Nagash|models]].
* With the right unit choices you literally have an army of [[Hot Chicks]] and [[Monstergirl|Monstergirls]] in bikinis!
* Some of the best melee in the setting; offensively they rival the [[Flesh-Eater Courts|crazy cannibals]] or the [[Khorne Bloodbound|Khorne Flakes]] in combat.
* They're a jack-of-all-trades able to fight in every phase with melee, shooting, magic, decent movement and bravery shenanigans.
* You like the continuation of Morathi's story arc, and want to see her make her mark on the setting.
* A monster that DOESN'T GET LESS EFFECTIVE IF IT TAKES WOUNDS (that also double as a giant angry statue of their god).
* Plenty of movement tricks. Your basic troops (Witch Aelves and Sisters of Slaughter) have the ability to run and charge with only a musician, everything else except the heroes and Cauldron of Blood/Bloodwrack Shrines have movement 8-14, you can reroll 1s to run turn 1, 1s to charge turn 2, plus Deep Striking Khinerai, Khailebron's deep striking ability and Lore of Shadows spells that boost movement.
* The new rules for shooting at characters give the enemy -1 to hit unless the target is a monster. Think the Cauldron of Blood or the Bloodwrack Shrine would count? Nope, they're not Monsters. Keep them close to a unit and watch them get to combat unmolested.
* The Cauldron of Blood, with the right combination of relics, Command Traits and prayers is straight busted, coming in with a nightmarish amount of damage output both in shooting and close combat, powerful support abilities and the ability to heal itself through multiple avenues for 300-330 points.
* Did I mention all of the [[Hot Chicks]] and [[Monstergirl|Monstergirls]] in bikinis?

===Cons===

* These chicks are almost as naked as the fyreslayers, but they dont have fancy runes or 2 wounds to tide them over. Apart from their 6+ fanatical faith save, they have the usual Glass Cannon problem of being flimsy. Our Infantry has a 6+ Save, and the other units - apart from Morathi - are softer than their equivalents in other armies unless you make the right choices (such as Hagg Narr and/or throw in a Cauldron).
* They are rather expensive to collect in dollars, and even spending lots of money on models can still leave you with a comparatively low model count.
* Their shooting is limited and overall mediocre.
* They do not play well with others. If you're playing Daughters of Khaine, you're playing them in a Daughters of Khaine Allegiance army. They are incredibly reliant on their faction abilities to turn them from a bunch of expensive fragile units with some pretty good close combat into a unified army with some of the most brutal close combat in the game. You can ally other stuff into them, don't ally them with other stuff. (Not entirely true, Khinari Heartrenders slot nicely into most Order soup lists as its a good deepstrike bully unit)
* Not a magic heavy army. Bar Morathi (who is mostly in monster form) you only have the Bloodwrack Medusa, who only gives you one spell/dispel per turn without relics or artifacts, and the Doomfire Warlocks who can be very powerful, but get expensive in blocks of 10 (which is what you want).

==Rulebooks==
{{AOSRulebooks|tome=Daughters of Khaine|points=[https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/5ae12374.pdf Daughters of Khaine Errata]}}

==Allegiance Abilities==
===Battle Traits===
; Fanatical Faith : Daughters of Khaine can ignore wounds allocated to them on a 6+. Sweet.
;Blood Rites : The fantasy variant of "Power From Pain". Every turn your units get a brand new special rule that stacks for the rest of the game.
:#'''Quickening Bloodlust:''' Reroll run rolls of 1.
:#'''Headlong Fury:''' Reroll dice rolls of 1 when charging.
:#'''Zealot's Rage:''' Rerolls 1s to hit. In addition, an Avatar of Khaine always counts as being animated.
:#'''Slaughterer's Strength:''' Reroll 1s to wound. Note that neither this nor turn 3 say "In close combat" so feel free to reroll those shots with your Blood Stalkers.
:#'''Unquenchable Fervour:''' Your units rerolls saves of 1, and do not need to take battleshock tests.

===Command Traits===
#'''Bathed in Blood:''' Increase your wound characteristic by 1 and you can heal 1 wound at the start of each hero phase. Good on a Cauldron of Blood, but there are better ways to get your wounds back.
#'''Zealous Orator:''' Friendly units within 14 inches can use the General's Bravery. Pairs well with a Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood for Bravery 10, which lets you easily get the extra damage from Mindrazor off against most units in the game.
#'''Bloody Sacrificer:''' Add 1 to the hit rolls of the General's weapons. Lot of good options here, but this seems like a waste of a Command Trait, given you can have other better options.
#'''Terrifying Beauty:''' Subtract 1 on hit rolls against the General. Putting this on the Cauldron of Blood will drive your opponent insane. Stacks with the existing -1 against shooting for heroes close to a unit, meaning that everyone shooting at you will have a -2 to hit you.
#'''Mistress of Poisons:''' Add 1 to the General's weapons Damage characteristics. A Slaughter Queen with this will wipe out a unit a turn.
#'''True Believer:''' Ups the turn number for the unit's Blood Rites. Good to get an Avatar of Khaine awake turn 2 and just generally a good choice.

===Gifts of Morathi===
(Can be given to any Daughter of Khaine Hero)
#'''Crown of Woe:''' Subtract 1 from the bravery of enemy units within 7". This range doubles to 14" the first time the bearer slays an enemy model.
#'''Cursed Blade:''' One of the bearers melee weapons adds +1 to hit rolls. If the result is ever 7+ then the weapon does 1 mortal wound instead of the normal damage.
#'''Amulet of Dark Fire:''' The bearer negates mortal wounds inflicted '''by spells''' on a 4+.
#'''Crone Blade:''' One of the bearers melee weapons heals the user by 1 wound each time it slays an enemy model.
#'''Thousand and One Dark Blessings:''' The bearer gains +1 to saves. This should probably be your default option since you'll always have a use for it, and DoK suffer from mediocre saves in general. Makes Heroes mounted on an Cauldron of Blood difficult to take down without a lot of rend or mortal wounds.
#'''Bloodbane Venom:''' If the bearer wounds an opponent but does not slay them, roll a dice after the attacks have been made. If the number equals/beats the victim's wound characteristic then it is slain outright.

===Artefacts of Shadow===
(Daughters of Khaine Wizards, meaning Bloodwrack Medusa since Doomfire Warlocks and Morathi can't take Relics, only)
#'''Shadow Stone:''' Re-Roll dice rolls of 1 for Casting attempts and add +1 to any casting attempts for Lore of Shadows spells. Helpful for making sure you get an important spell off. +1 to Casting the Withering is '''never''' a bad thing. Best way to get Mindrazor off.
#'''Rune of Ulgu:''' Bearer knows one extra Lore of Shadows spell. More options are never a bad thing.
#'''The Mirror Glaive:''' Each time the Bearer unbinds a spell, they can attempt to cast Arcane Bolt or Mystic Shield as if it was the Hero phase. If successful this spell can't be unbound. Sounds awesome but the Medusa can only attempt to unbind one spell a turn. Situational.
#'''Seven-fold Shadow:''' Once per battle, instead of moving you can set them up anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" from Enemy units. This uses up thier movement phase. You already have dozens of ways of teleporting units so this is a pass.
#'''Crystal Heart:''' [[Awesome |Bearer can cast a second spell in the Hero Phase. If they do they roll a d6, taking d3 Mortal Wounds on a 1.]]
#'''Shade Claw:''' The Medusa's Whisperclaw is now -2 Rend. Helps out your Medusa in melee, so worth considering if you have them on a Bloodwrack Shrine.

===Relics of Khaine===
(Daughters of Khaine Priests only)
#'''Blood Sigil:''' Bearer gains one additional Prayer. More options is never bad.
#'''Iron Circlet:''' Bearer re-rolls 1's when seeing if a prayer is successful. Prayers Manifest on a 3+ and all have very useful buffs so this can be helpful
#'''Rune of Khaine:''' Bearer exploded on death. Roll a dice. One 1 nothing happens. On 2-5 the unit that killed them takes D3 Mortal Wounds. On a 6, the unit takes D6. Works against any attack and doesn't have a ranged restriction so going by RAW, [[Just As Planned| your Hero can explode and do the Mortal Wounds against something across the table.]]. Main problem is that you want your Hag Queens alive as much as possible because Witchbrew is just that good. Witch Elves are your cannon fodder, and should really be dying instead.
#'''Crimson Shard:''' Bearer's Blade of Khaine wounds on a 2+. Pretty solid on a Cauldron as they will be getting stuck into melee anyway.
#'''Khaineite Pendant:''' Bearer can Pray three times in one Hero Phase, but the fiurst time you roll a 1 to manifest a prayer, they take d3 Mortal Wounds instead of 1. Extremely useful as your Prayers are all very useful. Being able to spam them is awesome. Probably your default choice.
#'''Hagbrew:''' Add +1 to Wound Rolls for the Bearer's melee weapons. Nice on a Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood. [[Rape |Turns thew Slaughter Queen on Cauldron into a death machine.]]

===Lore of Shadows===
The Lore of Shadows we all know and love is back! Note that Doomfire Warlocks are Wizards and can take a spell from here despite not being a Hero unit.
#'''Steed of Shadows:''' Casting Value 5. Caster can Fly and has a 16" Move.
#'''Pit of Shades:''' Casting Value 7. Pick an Enemy Unit within 18" of the caster, within line of sight, and roll 2d6. That unit takes 1 Mortal Wound for each point the 2d6 exceeds their Movement. Awesome against tough, but slow units. That Death player who keeps tarpitting you with blobs of 40 Skeletons? This spell was designed for you, followed up with a Bloodwrack Stare.
#'''Mirror Dance:''' Casting Value 4. Pick two Daughters of Khaine Heroes within 24" of the Caster. As long as they aren't within 6" of any other unit, switch their places on the Battlefield.
#'''The Withering:''' Casting Value 7. Pick an enemy unit within 18" of the caster within Line of Sight. [[Awesome |Until the next Hero Phase add +1 to Wound Rolls for '''all attacks''' that target that unit]]. You should always have this.
#'''Mindrazor:''' Casting Value 7. Pick a friendly Daughters of Khaine unit within 18" of the caster. All of that units weapons gain an additional -1 Rend, and all of their weapons gain 1 extra damage if hitting something with Lower Bravery. It's very easy to pump up the Bravery of your MurderElves anyway. Awesome Synergy with the below...This can double the damage out put of Witchaelves or SoS. Our Most used spell and a must have for the -1 Rend alone
#'''Shroud of Despair:''' Casting Value 4. Pick an enemy unit within 18" and within Line of Sight. They take -1 to Bravery until the next Hero Phase. If the Casting roll was 8+, they take -d3 Bravery Instead.

===Prayers of the Khainite Cult===
#'''Catechism of Murder:''' Pick a Friendly Daughters of Khaine unit within 14". Any 6's to hit explode and deal 2 hits.
#'''Blessing of Khaine:''' Pick a friendly Daughters of Khaine unit within 14". They re-roll failed FNP rolls from Fanatical Faith. With Hagg Nar, bucklers and the Cauldron buff, your units now have a 4+, then rerollable 5+ saves. You can take a charge quite happily, then murder whatever dared getting close in your turn with ease...
#'''Martyr's Sacrifice:''' Pick a friendly Daughters of Khaine unit within 14". Each time a model is killed in the Combat Phase, roll a d6. The dead model deals an extra Mortal Wound on a 5+. Stacks with the Bucklers.
#'''Crimson Rejuvination:''' Pick a friendly Daughters of Khaine unit within 14", except for Morathi in either form. That unit heals 1d3 Wounds.
#'''Covenant of the Iron Heart:''' Pick a friendly Daughters of Khaine unit within 14". That unit does not need to take Battleshock tests.
#'''Sacrament of Blood:''' Pick a friendly Daughters of Khaine unit within 14". That unit counts the current battle round as being 1 higher for determining Blood Rites traits. Stacks with other abilities that give this effect.

===Temples of Blood===
Each has unique special rules for your army, a new artifact and allows you to upgrade one of your Warscroll Battalions
;Hagg Nar : When you get to Zealot's Rage on Blood Rites (turn 3) you get to reroll all hits as opposed to 1s. Your general's command trait MUST be the Hagg Nar one, '''Devoted Disciple:''' Your general, and all units within 7 inches, get a 5+ Fanatical Faith save as opposed to a 6+. Cauldron Guard may take a Cauldron of Blood OR Avatar of Khaine. Hagg Nar allows your key unit to do its fanatical faith on 5+ combined with blessing of khaine and the +1 save from you cauldron your 30 witches will have a 5+ save and a 5++ (Reroll fails) fanatical save making the unit able to survive longer. By turn 3 your army is a killing machine and would be already in combat this is when things swing dramatically for Hagg Nar any unit with just a simple witch brew and being hagg nar will be rerolling their hits and wounds. on a unit of 20 witches that is 80 attacks (reroll hits and wounds) and if you add mind razor into the mix no single opponent can survive that number of paper cuts. The fact that Hagg Nar is the most frequently quoted temple needing a nerfbat to the face suggests that it's pretty good.
;Draichi Ganeth : Add 1 to your hit rolls when you charge and if you have a Slaughter Queen, she must take the relic '''The Darksword''', which gives her Deathsword 4 attacks instead of 3. Slaughter Troupe may take up to two units of Witch Elves. One of the better ones as its restrictions are easily worked around (don't want to have to take the Darksword? Don't take a Slaughter Queen) and a lot of practical applications (hitting on 2s, rerolling 1s on turn 3 will make almost every attack hit). Snake heavy armies take note- combine with Hag buffs for Crystal Vision mortal wounds on 3+, 6's count as two and reroll 1's. That's some scary MW output before the sneks start swinging.
;The Kraith : If you're still within 3 of an enemy after you fight, roll a D6. On a 6, pile in and attack again. In addition, one of your heroes must take the relic '''The Venom of Nagenda:''' Once per battle, you can use it to make one of your melee weapons only do 1 attack, but does D6 Mortal Wounds if it hits. Cauldron Guard may take any number of Hag Queens and Slaughter Queens. When the ability goes off, you'll feel like a god, but it'll only go off if you didn't wipe out the enemy unit AND if you roll a 6 and thus isn't as useful as Hagg Nar or Draichi Ganeth (which help you win the fights you already got into) or Khailebron (which helps you get to the fight in one piece).
;Khailebron : Your enemy gets -1 to hit in the shooting phase against Khailebron units and your General's command must be '''Mistress of Illusion:''' Choose a friendly unit within 7. If they're not in combat, pull them off the battlefield and Deep Strike them anyplace outside of 9 inches of the enemy. Works well on Morathi in caster form. Then you transform her, and her bigger base means she is suddenly only 7” away, ready to charge something, tie it up for a long time, if not outright killing it. The possibility alone will mess with your enemy who has to keep lots of stuff back to protect objectives. Temple Nest may take to two additional units of Blood Sisters or Blood Stalkers (or mix). This plugs one of your army's major weaknesses (getting shot to pieces) and the Command Trait can lead to some fascinating tactics, where your opponent never feels safe.

==Warscrolls==
The common keywords of these warscrolls are: '''ORDER''', '''AELF''' and '''DAUGHTERS OF KHAINE'''.

===Heroes===

;Morathi, High Oracle of Khaine : (480pts) After crawling out of the throat of Slaanesh, Morathi has done not bad for herself, she doesn't have much utility but exists mostly to cause carnage. At her most basic, she's a '''WIZARD''' with the ability to cast three spells per turn and unbind twice, adding +1 to her rolls and doubling the range of her spells. Her unique spell is ''Arnzipals Black Horror'' which basically smacks a unit with a random number mortal wounds. Her command ability allows her to pick two friendly '''DAUGHTERS OF KHAINE''' units within 14" and let them make an immediate shooting attack ''(Wanderers are in envy)'' or if they're within 3" of an enemy it allows them to pile in an make a melee attack. She can't use this command ability on herself though. In close combat, she's a devil, throwing out nine 3+/3+/-1/1 damage or D3 damage attacks between her Heartrender and her Bladed Wings ''(note she cannot fly though)'', all the while imposing a -1 to hit when enemies attempt to swing back at her and she can only take a '''maximum''' of three wounds per turn FULL STOP so that it is impossible to take Morathi out in a single turn of combat, to be sure, she is a handful. There is one ''(rather inconsequential)'' downside; Morathi cannot be healed by any means. Though spells which heal are often quite rare in most armies, so it isn't a huge loss; you want Morathi to lose ''some'' wounds anyway because the best is yet to come.
:*Wounds negated by Fanatical Faith no longer count as allocated.
:*Note that while she can only suffer three wounds per turn, there is a way your opponent can get around this. After being cast, predatory endless spells are moved at the start of each battle round, and this happens between turns, so any damage that happens here won't count towards the three wounds per turn.
:*Morathi LOVES the Khailebron Temple and the Khailebron Temple loves her. The biggest problem with Morathi is her point sink. If you don't transform her at the right time, you risk losing out on her contribution to combat in the late game. Khailebron solves that by teleporting her wherever she needs to be to rip things to shreds, in addition to making her nearly impossible to shoot before that time comes. Let her hang out in the backfield (next to your General, i.e. '''do not''' make her your General!), flexing that 36 inch Sorceress Supreme magical range to snipe enemy heroes or buff your own units, then morph her into Shadow Queen mode and pop her up right behind whatever is left of your enemy's lines.

;Morathi, the Shadow Queen : Morathi's true form, comes in the box along with the High Oracle version, since you aren't actually allowed to set up the Shadow Queen variant on the table at the start of the game. Instead you roll a dice at the start of each hero phase and if the number is equal to or less than the number of wounds Morathi has taken, then replace the High Oracle model entirely with the Shadow Queen. Alternatively, you can choose to transform her willingly. The giant snake monster is a 12 wound beast ''(unfortunately any wounds taken carry over and are '''doubled''')'' that can Fly and has a lot more dangerous melee attacks and comes with a ranged attack, Heartrender alone has the capability to cause 18 points of damage in a single round of combat, but she also has her venomous tail and the serpents in her hair for more damage, all of which still hits and wounds on a 3+ and are subject to Blood Rites making her all the deadlier as the game progresses. Her ranged attack is worth mentioning, simply removing an enemy model '''of your choice''' from an enemy unit if a dice roll beats their wounds characteristic, no ifs or buts... The Shadow Queen is still a spellcaster, albeit diminished by casting/unbinding only one spell per turn and she has lost her ''Sorceress Supreme'' and ''Enchanting Beauty'' rules. Either way, she is still a force to contend with, especially as like her smaller version, she only takes a maximum of THREE wounds per turn (note: turn, not battleground, so you will die in two battle rounds, but you will kill a lot in return in that time as well!), so short of weapons with cause instant death or remove her from play, so depending on the number of wounds she started with it is practically impossible to take her out in anything less than three turns, added to the fact that the High Oracle version also has this rule you can guarantee that no matter what your enemy throws at you, Morathi will still be on the table in one form or another by turn four in EVERY game she is involved in.
:* Nearly broken in the new meeting engagement format as the game ends after 4 rounds. Sure she takes up nearly half your army but there is almost nothing your opponent can do about her without any instant slain mechanism. And since the board is smaller, she will easily land a charge with her mobility. Unless she comes in at the start of Turn 1, you are always better off transforming her immediately.
:* Morathi is a great counter to the Slannesh Greater Daemon that forces you to fight last on a 2+. Whenever possible, transform her and chase it down. Your opponent can only score 3 depravity each turn from Morathi.

;Slaughter Queen : (100pts)The old Death Hag got split in two, the Slaughter Queen has pair of weapons: The "meh" Blade of Khaine which is pretty much a bog-standard weapon, combined with the a stronger but ridiculously named "Deathsword" which has a slightly better profile and does D3 damage; She is your primary priest, always casting on a 3+ but wounding herself on a 1. Unfortunately, her prayers are... weird, she isn't really a fantastic buffer for friendly units. is an incredibly unreliable way of tossing Mortal Wounds at your enemy and the other is a buff. That can only target her. Though to be fair, the buff is pretty good, increasing her meh knife's damage to D3, essentially matching her Deathsword, which will put the lady at 7 damage D3 attacks, enough to kill bigger units all on her own. Her other good prayer is the ability to fight twice in the combat phase, which you should use if she goes up against hordes rather than monsters. She can also have this ability as a command ability, allowing a friendly unit to pile in during the hero phase. The last prayer is an odd one, forcing your opponent to play "[[What|guess which hand]]" or suffer D3 mortal wounds... essentially a bizarre throwback to old legacy rules. In short, altogether she is a 5 wound 5+ save model who will die to angry thoughts if she gets to close to an actual combat. Leave her at home unless she's your general or you're running Shadowhammer compact; IF you take her as general her command ability makes your Witch Aelves kill more than what a Hag Queen would do, making her a better option in this case. *One thing to remember is that priests get an extra prayer from the list of khainite prayers, and therefore can actually pray twice in your hero phase.
:*She can also attempt to unbind one spell in your enemy's hero phase as if she were a wizard, which is nothing to be sniffed at. If you have Bloodwracks as well, you can effectively shut down your opponent's magic every turn.

;Hag Queen : (90pts)The slaughter queen's little sister and amazing supporting choice. She doesn't have the Deathsword, the ''Dance of Doom'' prayer, the ability to unbind spells, or any command ability. Instead she has a chalice of Witchbrew which allows a friendly DoK unit within 3" to re-roll wounds until your next hero phase AND makes your units immune to battle shock. Even at 90pts the Hag Queen is still arguably the best hero in the game. She can turn a unit of 30 Witch Aelves into an unstoppable orgy of slaughter. <s>Until AoS2 comes in, two Hag queens are mandatory in pretty much any DoK list.</s> AoS2 is here and Hag Queens are still excellent, especially since they're harder to shoot (although you still probably want a Cauldron in addition).

;Cauldron of Blood : (300pts, Behemoth)A centerpiece in every sense of the word. It draws the eye and is absolutely essential for turning an assortment of powerful units into a coherent army. Basically a straight upgrade for one of the Queens with an Avatar of Khaine strapped to the same model; needing to be animated with prayers each turn ''(or wait for Blood Rites to kick in by turn 3)'' This also means that there is practically no situation where the Avatar will be without a Priestess to animate him since they are both sharing the same model in this case, making it a safer bet than marching either of them around solo where one or the other can get picked off. It also has extra attacks thanks to the attendant sisters and an added charge bonus which inflicts Mortal Wounds. It also allows DoK units within a diminishing range to add +1 to their save rolls, so this unit is definitely worth having considering how fragile the army is in general, though there really isn't much more to say beyond the standard rules for the Hag/Slaughter Queens. The Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood is almost always going to be the general in any Daughters of Khaine army. It's buffs, bulk, command ability, and output are just too good not to use.
:*If you are still considering which way to go between the Shrine or the Cauldron. You are mostly weighing up whether you want the Aura of Agony for causing mortal wounds in a radius, or the Bloodshield for giving your sisters a +1 to saves. Everything else is pretty much the sum of the model's parts since the actual Shrine/Cauldron itself has mostly the same profile and attacks in either version simply added to whatever hero is mounted on top of it, which you could have deployed separately. However one big factor to remember is that the Cauldron of Blood can still move around the tabletop without having to animate the Avatar, leaving your Priestess to use a different prayer in her hero phase if you want to.
:*If you want a rapetrain, make a Slautgherqueen on this thing your general, then give her Mistress of Poisons, the Crone Blade and Catechism of Murder, wait for Turn 3 then charge something; you'll get +1 to the damage of all your melee hits since Mistress of Poisons works for all of the cauldron's attacks, and with Crone Blade on the Avatar's attack you get more than a chance to cause casualties and recover wounds, since it now does 4 damages per non saved attack, compensating for your fragility ( you still have 13 wounds with a 4+ save but some generals can be tougher); factor in Catechism of Murder ( solid, given this model has 19 attacks) and a self cast Orgy of Slaughter and... well, you won't regret skipping one of the temples for this. IF you don't care about the Crone Blade, take a Hagbrew instead.

;Bloodwrack Medusae : (140pts)Your generic Wizard, capable of tossing off a spell that makes it harder for the enemy to wound you, which is also nice, plus Mindrazor or whatever you like. Also, you know how Wizards tend to be useless in close combat and shooting? Well this is Daughters of Khaine and everyone has to pull their weight. Has an absolutely brutal shooting attack, where you roll a dice for every model in a unit and every 5+ is a Mortal Wound, and has a metric ton of close combat attacks, with a theoretical maximum of 16 wounds (average dice rolls will probably render it closer to 5 or 6, depending on what turn it is). You already want her slinging spells left and right, and she can easily be used to quickly clear out a unit of archers or something while your more important units take out tougher enemies. Definitely needs to be on your list.

;Bloodwrack Shrine : (220pts, Behemoth)While you should probably get a Cauldron of Blood first, if you wanted to keep the Queens and Avatar separate you will be left with a Bloodwrack Shrine, either that or you bought a second model. It's only 80 points more than the Medusa on her own. It costs you 2 inches of movement but it more than doubles your wounds, gives you the Shrinekeepers attacks, the Bladed Impact rule AND gives you the Aura of Agony, which causes D3 mortal wounds ALL ENEMY UNITS within a 7" radius on a diminishing die roll, starting at 2+, which coupled with her Bloodwrack Stare means that the Shrine has the potential to be doling out a lot of mortal wounds in a given turn. They are also Wizards now, being able to cast/unbind a single spell per turn.
:* If you've got an extra Cauldron to assemble as one of these, remember that it's only 80 points more than a normal Bloodwrack Medusa, trading in those 80 points and 2 points of movement for double the wounds, the Shrine Keepers attacks and the Aura of Agony. That's pretty cheap all told, and since it's not a monster, it's still harder to shoot in AoS2, so it's worth considering.
:*Remember that a Bloodwrack Shrine can cast Steed of Shadows on itself to fly 16" and get that Aura of Agony + Bloodwrack Stare where it would hurt the most.

===Troops===
;Witch Aelves : (BATTLELINE, Min:10, Max:30 120/300) The new battletome went and mixed it up a bit, giving Witch Aelves the Bladed Buckler rule which used to be unique to the Sisters of Slaughter. If you take the Buckler then they get a 5+ save with any roll of a six causing an immediate mortal wound on the attacker. This and the ''Fanatical Faith'' allegiance ability has increased the Witch Aelves survivability somewhat. If you'd rather have them be more killy, you can swap the buckler for an extra sacrificial knife which grants them another attack, up to three per model, which makes them rather choppy for a cheap unit, this can be further upgraded thanks to the ''Frenzied Fervour'' rule which grants them another extra attack whenever they are within 8" of DoK Hero in the combat phase, with each potentially throwing out four 3+/4+/-/1 attacks per turn with rerolls depending on what turn it is, which isn't too terrible for a front-line unit. No matter what option you take they are still fragile though. Big units of 30 are currently staples of the tournament scene so make sure you take big unit so they can reach the enemy.
:*It's worth bearing in mind that if you took bucklers you should always take your save even if the enemy has a good rend value and your Witches actually have no hope of surviving. The save inflicts the mortal wound on a six after any rerolls but ''before modifiers'' such as rend or debuffs, thus you might get a free mortal wound or two on your opponent even though your ladies are caught in the headlights and can't do anything about it.
:*If you do the math, bucklers are better: slightly lower damage output ( a difference of decimals even when counting stacks of bonuses to attacks) but they double your odds of surviving a hit, which will leave more witches on the table for more attacks and chances of mortal wounds; consider giving the buckler to all of your witches or at least most of them.

;Sisters of Slaughter : (BATTLELINE, Min:10, Max:30 120/300) The counterpart to the Witch Aelves took a different role with the recent update. They lost their bonus to saves in close combat and are just as fragile as Witch Aelves, who now share the Bladed Buckler rule. They can trade their shield in for the Sacrificial knife, which gives them an additional short ranged attack at the expense of some durability. Their unique special rule is that they can be chosen to pile in and fight up from up to 6" away rather than 3", which means they have a massive threat radius without even charging and can jump on to the enemy during his own Combat Phase. A good use of these ladies might be to hover around your own units and perform a counter-charge whenever one of your weaker units gets threatened, dog-piling on the enemy when he thought he had the advantage. Their long pile in means that they're also one of the only units in the game that can bypass the Idoneth Deepkin's Turn 3 combat priority or the weird Gloomspite Gitz Fanatic "Always Strikes First" ability.

;Blood Sisters : (Optional BATTLELINE: Bloodwrack Medusa General, Min:5, Max:20 120). Your gorgon snake-chicks whose job is to be the army's elite melee anchor unit. Armed with Glaives and their Crystal Touch attacks, they can throw out a reliable amount of damage every turn. Glaives have three 3+/3+/-1/1 attacks at 2" range which would be decent before you consider rerolls from Blood Rites or further buffs from prayers. The Crystal Touch is a kicker though, causing an instant mortal wound on every hit. Making Blood Sisters the ones you want to throw at the enemy elite to get maximum advantage of the Crystal Touch (wasting it on cannon fodder units is just a gross waste of mortal wounds in most circumstances). The main problem is that they cost quite a lot for only a few models, yes they have two-wounds each but they are still fragile with a 5+ save(unless you bring a cauldron, which you should) and even with Fanatical Faith they really don't have a ton of staying power (for example despite being an elite unit they are less durable than a Liberator or Chaos Warrior) so you will be feeling the loss of each one heavily. Keep them protected with the massive number of buffs you can pile onto them. Large units are also a must simply because of the MASSIVE discount they get in groups of 20.
:*This is where all your buffs go. Even 5 snake ladies are a strong close combat unit but their damage output can be increased to ridicules levels. 10 snakes with catechism of murder, mindrazor and witch brew in a Hagg-Nar list will have 30 -2 rend 2 Damage attacks, 10 crystal touch attacks, all with re-rolls to-hit and to-wound plus exploding sixes. Sure, lots of eggs in one basket. But if you manage to get this off at the right moment the game will be over as they will have killed everything they can get their scaly hands on. *Don't forget the defensive buffs, with a Cauldron, Haggnarr, and the reroll prayer you can make a big unit of the snake ladies 4+(3+ if you can find a nice big terrain piece) 5++,5+++ which makes them actually ridiculously tough.
:*Consider Draichi Ganeth’s charge bonus for mortal wounds on 3+ rather than 4+.

;Blood Stalkers : (Min:5, Max:20 120) The ranged snake ladies. Yes you also have Khinerai Heartrenders now, but the Stalkers have the longer range and fewer rules for moving about, making them your primary fire support unit rather than the mobile harassing unit of harpies. Rolling 6+ to hit makes the bow do a mortal wound instead of the normal damage, which is nice to have but shouldn't be relied upon since you can't do massed ranged firepower like some other armies can. The squad leader also gets a Bloodwyrm, which is a little dragon-pet that adds a single reliable close combat attack to her profile, but little else, kind of at odds with the unit's purpose as they are only average melee combatants. They do have a reasonable movement, allowing them to get into desirable firing positions easier and with a high bravery they can good backfield objective holders while delivering ranged support to the front. And while not amazing given their small unit sizes they have reasonable combat abilities for a ranged unit, so there is some consolation in that. Overall don't expect a whole lot of mileage thanks to a combination of small squad sizes, relatively few attacks and the fact they can't be Battleline units, but given they this army isn't heavy on long range shooting just accept them for what they are and just don't go expecting miracles.
:*As ranged units, they are probably best compared to Stormcast Judicators with Skybolt Bows, rather than the mass ranged units found in Free Peoples or Wanderers - they are 2-wound models with decent single-fire range attacks. Stalkers are quicker ''(8" move)'' and balsier ''(8 bravery vs 6 bravery)'' and better in close combat. However they lack the Judicators overall shooting versatility and damage output (they have no alternate ranged weapons or powerfull special weapons). With Fanatical Faith they are probably just as resilient, though that really depends on the Rend value of the weapon attacking them. Anything with even a rend of 1 will pretty much negate the bonus of Fanatical Faith to virtually nothing and these guys aren't really cheap enough to just throw away without thought. And as always Stalkers aren't battleline like Judicators, which is a shame really.
:*With the recent points adjustment to match Blood Sisters, they are now viable in Meeting Engagement. They have an effective range of 32 which allows you to easily land shots on almost anything on the smaller board. Just kill of at least one model and not die from return fire, you will win the Victory Points for having slain models with higher wound count.
:*Take note the Krone has a +1 to hit. This means she hits on a 2+ and score a mortal wound on a 5+ making it possible to land mortal wound on enemy hero who has a Look Out Sir -1 modifier against shooting.

;Khinerai Lifetakers : (Min:5, Max:20 80/280pts) One of the new Khinerai Harpy units. Lifetakers behave pretty much like flying Witch Aelves. With a pair of average attacks and a version of the Bladed Buckler called the Heartpiercer Shield, which is essentially the same thing; granting them a 5+ save that causes mortal wounds to attackers on six. Strictly speaking they are worse in close combat than Witch Aelves, but they can FLY for one, as well as bein able to Deep Strike onto the battlefield anywhere more than 9" from the enemy. The real draw with Lifetakers over other similar units is that they gain +1 damage whenever they charge into combat and can also fall back from combat '''after''' they have completed all of their attacks on a die roll of 4+, so you can escape during an enemy turn and just charge them again on your own. Get enough of these together and they'll be taking anything down.
:* In the new meeting engagement format, these ladies are golden. At 14" movement and a smaller board size in meeting engagement, you are better off deploying them at the edge of the board with a Hag queen. Buffed with Witch Brew and Catechism of Murder, a small unit of 5 will rip any light unit of 10 to shreds. Battleshock will finish the job and you even have a 50/50 chance of backing off to capture the nearby objective. Since they are just 1 wound per model, it works to your advantage when counting wounds to compete for victory points in meeting engagement.

;Khinerai Heartrenders : (Min:5, Max:20 90pts) The other of your two new Khinerai Harpy units. The Heartrender variant are your ranged specialists who can fling their barbed javelins up to 12" doing decent 3+/3+/-1/1 damage; although that's only one attack each. While this is actually pretty decent when you compare them to a similar unit like Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins, Lifetakers come with even more special rules that make them useful. Firstly, they can Deep Strike, arriving anywhere on the table more than 9" from the enemy when you feel like, which is still happily within their shooting range, which also has their Rend characteristic boosed to -2 for that alpha strike attack. Allowing you to genuinely strategise with where to put them and what they can hurt. They can also shoot after running and fall back after shooting on a die roll of 4+, meaning that although 12" is quite a short range for a ranged weapon you have a chance of darting in and out an inevitable counter-charge when the enemy gets annoyed with you. They also have the Heartpiercer Shield which makes them more resilient though admittedly you don't want this unit in melee because they do so much better as a harassing unit.
:* At 90 points, it's not hard to get your points back for this unit in ways other than simply killing something outright. Drop two Draichi Ganeth Slaughter Troupe 5-Harpy (each with an Allied Assassin) units in your opponents back field and pepper a hiding hero with your Javelins until you can aggro one of his units to come take care of you. Note: Be mindful of your surroundings and don't drop into a bunch of gun lines... but if you do, they'll spend a turn shooting two 80 point units rather than your 300 point blobs of Witch's and Sister's. Anyways, if you get something to bite, let them charge you, then fly/run/retreat out of there ''towards'' your opponents now-isolated Hero, drop your Allied Assassin's on him/her and decide where to go from there.
:* Heartrenders can also serve as line backers, able to move and support your units where needed. Use this when faced against armies that put out more damage than they can handle, sitting them behind your hordes of Witches/Sisters to take the brunt of your opponents abuse and chucking Javelins at them then moving into combat to mop up whatever is left.

;Doomfire Warlocks : (Min:5, Max:20 160pts) The only males in the faction. These guys are actually incredible. They are excessively fast at 14" and they now come with two-shot crossbows they are still great, as they're pretty tough and units of them are collectively Wizards. This makes them incredibly versatile already, letting you play small units to either shoot Mortal Wounds or buff your squishy ladies, but the really great part is their unique spell. First, it's casting value 5, so very easy to get off, then you get +1 to cast if the unit has 10+ models and then its a damage spell that scales to your unit size, topping at a flat 6 Mortal Wounds at 10+ models. Six. Mortal. Wounds. If your opponent sees that even once, he will focus your Warlocks down, but that's alright, since it means ignoring your Sisters of Slaughter and as soon as those ladies are in melee, your Warlocks are safe again.
:*Another way to use them is to ignore their trademark spell and see them as a mobile buff support unit. Most time than not DOK tends to be a single directed steam roller which not many units to sit back and cap objectives. This is where The warlocks comes in, they are fast enough to cap and tough enough to stick a little longer vs smaller opposing units compared to using harpies for the similar role esp if they are within range to the blood shield! To top it off their insane 14" movement allows you to position your warlocks in such a way what they can be outside the 30" dispel radius from your opponent and still in range to buff your own units - So use them like the fluff - males whom are only useful as support units to empower our witches and cap objectives so the killing can be done by the girls of khaine.. I mean morathi...
:*[[Eldar |Even though they are Cavalry, there are multiple ways of being able to Teleport them into the face of your opponent on Turn 1]]. Taking a Shadow Patrol with two units of 10 Warlocks and a General with the Khailebron Command Trait can do just this. [[Rape |That is 6 Mortal Wounds plus 40 4+/4+/-/1 Crossbow shots, and whatever spells you loaded onto the second unit hitting your opponent at once]].*

===Behemoth===
;Avatar of Khaine : (Behemoth 140pts) So you built a Bloodwrack Shrine and had the statue of Khaine left over? Well GW have fixed that for you. Like 40k Eldar players you can bring your very own incarnation of war and murder to the tabletop. Except this one is an spiky iron golem animated by the prayers of the nearest Death Hag rather than a [[Grimdark|burning daemon animated by the soul of a dead warrior]]. This means that the Avatar '''NEEDS''' to be accompanied by a Priestess and keep her protected, otherwise it stands on the battlefield doing nothing each turn and you'll have wasted your points. This becomes less of an issue if you have the ''Blood Rites'' allegiance ability, which automatically animates your statue from turn three onwards, but seriously, you want this thing moving before then because it's a heavy hitter. In close combat it throws out four attacks at -2 rend and 3 damage, making it your primary character slayer. It also has a ranged attack that spews blood all over the enemy, with six shots at 3+/3+/-1/1 it is nothing to scoff at, making it the near equivalent of whole ranged units in other armies ''(for example: it causes more wounds than a 10 man squad of Glade Guard)''.
:*One problem? The Avatar does very little other than be a simple beaststick, it does provide Daughter of Khaine a +1 bravery bonus within 7" although bravery is not one of the major problems the Daughters have to face ''(poor saves come higher on the list)'' though thankfully the bravery bonus applies whether the Avatar is animated or not, because it's still a giant religious icon of their war god.
:*Buff your Avatar with Mindrazor and watch him wreck everything in range. Thanks to his high bravery, his attacks will nearly always be four attacks with -3 rend and 4(!) damage each. <s>Unless you're up against undead. Or daemons. Or Seraphon.</s> Bravery 11 (10 + 1 thanks to "Idol of Worship") will beat the bravery 10 of any of these units (when not affected by debuffs).

==Battalions==
===From Start Collecting===
; Blood Coven (not legal in pitched battles) : ''A Hag Queen, one unit of Witch Elves and a Bloodwrack Shrine.''

; Brides Of The Blade (from the new Start Collecting) : ''A Slaughter Queen, a Hag Queen, an Avatar of Khaine, one unit of Blood Stalkers or Blood Sisters and a Bloodwrack Shrine.''

Once per battle, the Slaughter Queen can automatically unbind a spell instead of rolling the dice like normal.

===From Battletome Daughters of Khaine===
;Cauldron Guard (540pt. min.) : ''A Hag Queen, two units of Witch Elves and two units of Khinerai Lifetakers.''

Adds 1 to the units in the Cauldron Guards run and charge rolls. Anything that lets you move into combat faster is good. The Witch Aelves can charge after running, making them ridiculously fast (especially with rerolls of 1s) and now your Lifetakers make their charge on an 8 rather than a 9 after landing, letting them more consistently get the charge and their charging bonuses.

;Slaughter Troupe (630pt. min.) : ''A Slaughter Queen, two units of Sisters of Slaughter and two units of Khinerai Heartrenders.''

Lets all the units in the Battalion fall back and still shoot/charge. Given that in 2nd Edition of Age of Sigmar, you can only shoot at units you're in combat with, this lends the Heartrenders a lot of versatility, but the real kicker is in a Draichi Ganeth army (which can also add up to 2 units of Witch Aelves to this Battalion). They get +1 to hit on the charge, allowing you to yo-yo units in and out of combat to keep getting the bonus.

;Temple Nest (870pt. min.) : ''A Medusa, two units of Blood Sisters and two units of Blood Stalkers.''
: Every to-hit roll of 1s made by a enemy unit in close combat (after re-rolls before modifiers) causes a mortal wound. Basically Bladed Bucklers/Heartpiercer Shields for your snake ladies. Useful to make your opponent nervous about directing a lot of attacks at these units. With the new generic Command Ability All-Out Attack that allows enemy to re-roll hit rolls of 1s, this may work towards or against you. If your opponents are starved for CP, you can bait them into using CP to avoid Mortal Wounds, denying them the opportunity to use CP for other purposes.

;Shadow Patrol (770pt. min.) : ''Two units of Doomfire Warlocks and a total four units of Khinerai Heartrenders or Lifetakers.''

One per battle round, you can pull one of these units that's more than 3 inches away from the enemy and set them up anywhere outside of 9 inches of the enemy. Good for making your enemy never feel safe since your units can surround them easily and worth remembering that the wording on both this battalion and the Heartrender's Death From Above rule means they interact: Dropping a unit of Heartrenders with this Batallions means they get -2 rend on their Javelins.

;Shadowhammer Compact (1080pt. min.) : ''Two units of Witch Elves, one unit of Blood Stalkers, one unit of Khinerai Heartrenders, two units of Liberators, one unit of Judicators and one unit of Prosecutors.''
: In each Hero Phase you select one Daughters of Khaine unit and one Stormcast Eternals unit - both units do one of the the following, it must be the same: Move, Shoot, or Charge/Pile in.

===From Grand Alliance Order===
;Bloodwrack Sisterhood (940 pt. min.) : ''A Cauldron of Blood, a unit of Bloodwrack Medusae, a Death Hag, and 3-6 units choose between the following: Witch Aelves Doomfire Warlocks or Sisters of Slaughter.''
: During your hero phase roll a D6 for each battalion unit within 3" of an enemy unit and within 9" of the Cauldron of Blood. On a 6 that unit can immediately pile in and attack as if it were the combat phase. This does not stop them from piling in and attacking again later that turn.

==Super-Battalions==
===From Battletome Daughters of Khaine===

;War Coven of Morathi (3160pt. min.) : ''Morathi, one Cauldron Guard, one Temple Nest, one Slaughter Troupe and one Shadow Patrol.''
ABILITIES
Blood Rituals: If your army has the DAUGHTERS OF KHAINE allegiance, units in this battalion count the current battle round number as being 1 higher than it actually is when determining what abilities they receive from the Blood Rites battle trait (pg 50). This is cumulative with other, similar abilities (e.g. the True Believer Command Trait or the Sacrament of Blood prayer).
Devout Followers: Do not take a battleshock test for War Coven of Morathi units that are within 18" of Morathi (in either of her forms) when the test is taken.

==Army Building==
If it ever come back in stock, begin with the Daughters of Khaine Blood Coven box, and magnetize the Cauldron/Shrine so you can reconfigure it as needed.

Start out with ten Sisters of Slaughter and two boxes Doomfire Warlocks. If you happen to have the Mistweaver Saih from Silver Tower, add her.

Then, add a second box Sisters of Slaughter and a third box Doomfire Warlocks. You now have twenty crazy murder ladies and fifteen crazy mounted murder mages and possibly a Wizard to keep them company.

If you desperately want Witch Aelves, get thirty of them at once. That MIGHT be enough to get them into combat. ''With Khailebron, you are not so vulnerable to enemy shooting = more surviving Witch Aelves, and you can buff them and then teleport them to take out any key units the enemy has (preferably on turn 2+ for that secure charge). Peachy says that he has seen a full unit of buffed Witch Aelves go through a Great Unclean One in a turn, so Witch Aelves are definitely not "bad" as an unit choice. But still take them in groups of 30.''
Witch Aelves are expen$ive as fuck, though, so look for bargains or used models if you want several boxes worth of them.

Two boxes Khinerai Heartrenders add even more ranged damage and allow you play a Slaughter Troupe.

==Allied Armies==

*'''Cities of Sigmar:''' Darkshards and Sorceresses give you good ranged support, but their melee infantry moves too slowly to work well with yours. Sorceress on Black Dragon can be fun if you have the points to spare, but anything she can do Morathi does better, her only advantage is being cheaper. Scourgerunner Chariots throw out some good ranged support and 3 of them can take up a lot of room. Shadow warriors can be a alternative to Khinari due to their infiltration rules and shadow ability.

*'''Idoneth Deepkin:''' Ideally you want to grab some Ishlaenn Guard, as those guys will soak up obscene amounts of damage for you. Nothing else is really worth considering.

*'''Stormcast Eternals:'''There are two things Stormcast Eternals can do for you: Tough units to weather attacks for you and ranged support via the crossbows.Vanguard raptors can add high volume of shots or character sniping. Knight-Incantors can add some magic options (like Everblaze comet) and the auto dispel. Same price as a Medusa.

*'''Gotrek:''' Big Daddy Gotrek is back, and is one of the best killers in the game. Takes up half the average army if teamed up with Morathi and makes an awesome hammer and anvil combo. Hes slow through, so build around that.

===Mercenary Companies===
*'''Blacksmoke Battery:'''
*'''Greyfyrd:'''
*'''Grugg Brothers:'''
*'''Gutstuffers:'''
*'''Nimyard’s Rough-Riders:'''
*'''Order of the Blood-Drenched Rose:'''
*'''Rampagers:'''
*'''Skroug’s Menagerie:'''
*'''Sons of the Lichemaster:'''
*'''Tenebrous Court:'''

==External links==
Rules are here

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-caludron-blood-en.pdf

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-witch-aelves-en.pdf

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-sisters-slaughter-en.pdf

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-bloodwrack-shrine-en.pdf

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-doomfire-warlocks-en.pdf

{{Age_of_Sigmar_Tactics}}

Tomb Kings

2020-03-24T16:21:10Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:187:B744:68E8:D674: /* Death of an Era */

[[File:Liche Priest.png|thumb|right|315px|Welcome to Nehekhara]]
{{Topquote|Lightning shall sunder the skies, the rivers will flow with blood and war will come to the land. The legions of long-dead kings shall once more rise eternal in conquest, and death shall ride beside them.|Settra the Imperishable}}

{{Topquote|To have died once is enough.|Virgil}}

{{Topquote|So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and suddenly a rattling; and the bones came together, bone to bone. Indeed, as I looked, the sinews and the flesh came upon them, and the skin covered them over; but there was no breath in them.| Ezekiel 37:7-8}}

The not-Egyptians of [[Warhammer Fantasy]], if every single thing in Egypt died and was mummified but maintained the lifestyle as if still alive for several thousand years before pesky [[Old World|Europeans]] came to steal gold and use the corpses of historical rulers as skin cream (the latter is not a joke, they really did that).

One of the more underpowered groups on the tabletop due to powercreep in other factions not being fairly distributed around and being structured around [[Star Wars|Death Star-like]] massive weaknesses, although not without their strengths. This has resulted in their having a reputation as the single hardest faction in the game to play due to their needing to be played well to achieve victory, which puts them in the category of expert difficulty.

Players of the [[Warhammer 40,000|"Other Warhammer"]] know them as the original basis of the [[Necrons]]. In fact, whereas Necrons were originally the soulless and mostly unthinking, Terminator-like ("Terminator" as in the robots from the Schwarzenegger movies, 40k-fag) the rank and file troops of the Tomb Kings, later editions made the Necrons almost entirely just Tomb Kings IIIIIIIIN SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE by giving the Necron leaders eccentric personalities and rivalries.

== History ==
[[File:Tomb_Kings_Ushabit.jpg|thumb|right|200px|I think that statue just moved...]]
After the [[Old Ones]] created the various races, but before [[Chaos]] came and destroyed the [[Warp Gates]], humans (rejected as a failure by the Old Ones due to short lifespans and Chaos corruptibility) expanded throughout the world. The exact direction mankind went is unclear; the Old Ones notoriously created special environments for their creations in order to observe them, and the fact the bulk of Warhammer Africa is one giant bowl called [[Nehekhara]] suggests Warhammer Africa really is the cradle of life in the setting as much as it is real life. At any rate, the ancient being known as [[Drachenfels]] noted that before Chaos came to the world a race of dark-skinned peoples who he hated had entered his territory as they spread northwards.

Nehekharans were a dark-skinned people, as you would expect, with a pantheon of animal-headed gods and goddesses, as you would expect, had a massive fetish for triangles in architecture, as you would expect, who used gold in everything they did and believed that it belonged to the divine royalty, as you would expect, and were absolutely fascinated by death, which you may have predicted. On the other hand their civilization reached a level of sofistication which could rival the future Empire, with magitech allowing them to build battle automatas and flying machines, they also imported firearms from Cathay, sadly this is only seen in the Time of Legends novels, most of these advancements where lost or replaced by mortuory rites, but more of that later. For many, MANY years the Nehekharans waged wars on each other, built small empires that didn't last long outside their own lifespan, and were entombed in great monuments. During the collapse of the Warp Gates and the ensuing invasions by Chaos, Nehekhara was left completely untouched due to the MASSIVE and almost impossible to traverse mountains that circled most of the subcontinent. What didn't stop however is the flow of magic through the world, in particular the [[Shyish|Wind of Death]] which empowered the priesthood of the Nehekharan pantheon to suddenly be able to produce actual miracles.

Not long after, centuries before the start of the [[High Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)|High Elf]] and [[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)|Dark Elf]] civil war, the greatest Nehekharan to have ever lived was born. [[Settra the Imperishable|Settra]], who immediately set out on a mission of conquest to become the singular ruler of the entirety of Nehekhara, as well as solidify a single organized religion. Over time his name gained many titles, The Imperishable being the most notorious although its telling that the main job of his greatest warrior was to list them. While most Nehekharan kings before him had been simply spoiled inbred inept brutal dictators who managed to keep even the most prosperous kingdom in a state of constant poverty, Settra built the infrastructure of every land he claimed and spared any who swore loyalty to him while punishing those who did not in unspeakable ways. After doing the unthinkable and uniting his people, he followed it up with a second inconceivable feat; becoming the first Nehekharan king truly loved by his people, and feared only by those with disloyalty in their hearts.

As he neared middle age he came to the realization even the greatest king must die, something he refused to accept. The temples of Nehekhara, now called the Priesthood of Awakening, were appointed to use their connections to the Nehekharan gods (implied in some lore to be the same death gods for all races, notably [[Morr]]) and their magic to keep him alive forever. The Grand Hierophant (Nehekharan Pope), Khatep, promised him eternal skin made of pure gold, of endless rule, of the pleasures his position of [[Meme|Da Best]] came with. Instead, they only managed to come up with a way to extend the lives of wealthy Nehekharans to around 300 years or so, and preserve Settra's soul inside his aging body so that future generations could deliver on their promises. Settra sacrificed his children to form a pact with his gods, then allowed the Priests of Nehekhara to mummify and entomb him in his great palace tomb, the Pyramid of Eternity at his capital city of Khemri.

It took very little time for the Nehekharans to break up Settra's dynasty and factions battled for dominance again, although now there was an extra incentive: eternal life and a body of gold for paying into the promises of the priests, not to mention the dick-measuring contest of having the biggest and most elaborate tomb (to the point that some were cities for the living before, sometimes even after, the intended occupant died). The only unspoken rule was that nobody's could be taller than Settra's, for even thousands of years after his death the man was feared and loved.

The next major event would come five hundred years after Settra's reign, the birth of the OTHER greatest Nehekharan. [[Nagash]]. By that point, the tradition was that firstborn sons were given to the priesthood to train, the second born inherits the throne. Nagash had the misfortune of desiring power and respect but being the firstborn, and fostered a deep hatred of his brother (and healthy amount of lust for his brother's wife) and the systems the Nehekharans had developed. One day, Dark Elves were captured and brought to the palace. Nagash was put in charge of interrogating them, and discovering not only what they were but why they had come. Instead, Nagash tortured the female in their number (as only female Dark Elves are allowed to learn magic as their leader [[Malekith]] fears a prophesy involving a male Elf wizard killing him) until she spilled the secrets of true magic to him. Rather than mastering an existing Lore of magic, Nagash managed to do something no other being in Elflands, [[Lizardmen|South America]], or The [[Warp]] had done; invent [[Necromancy]], recording all of his discoveries in nine books called the Nine Books Of Nagash (title needed a bit of work). Nagash promptly killed his brother and assumed the throne, making his co-conspirators part of his royal court and making [[Arkhan the Black]] his Vizier. The he got Arkhan to lead a massive army of the Undead and become Settra 2.0. During the war Nagash built a pyramid made of pure [[Warpstone]], the [[Black Pyramid]], which dwarfed Settra's pyramid by a great deal.

Regardless of the immensely powerful magics used by Nagash and Arkhan, they were defeated by the son of a man named Lahmizzar from the kingdom of Lahmia that had united all other Nehekharans against the Undead, and Nagash was driven into the desert as man older than a century while Arkhan led a suicide attack to buy his master time to escape. Nagash wandered through the desert until he simply died, then got back up as his Elixir of Longevity proved to be a success and continued moving as the very first free-willed Undead. Arkhan in the meantime had been taken prisoner, and given to the descendants of Lahmizzar. The brother, a warlord with no interest in the more complex natures of what they were dealing with, left his power-hungry sister named [[Queen Neferata|Neferata]] in charge of interrogating Arkhan. With his help, she entered the Black Pyramid and stole one of Nagash's books. Neferata developed a crush on Arkhan as both were semi-hedonistic nobility that craved independence that their circumstances kept them from possessing.

Neferata pored over the recipe for the Elixir of Longevity and eventually sampled her own perfected version which would keep her youthful and fleshy in contrast with Nagash's extremely anorexic look. The unfortunate cost of Neferata's elixir was a need to drink blood for all nourishment, although the powerful queen kept herself fed on the slaves of her kingdom easily. Some time later she shared the elixir with her favorite people including [[Vlad von Carstein|her husband]], [[Abhorash|the Captain of the Guard]], [[W'soran|her local priest]], [[Ushoran|her cousin]], and others. Lahmia quickly became a den of the very first [[Vampire Counts|Vampires]] in the setting, and after the death of her brother Neferata took control of the kingdom.

However, Neferata couldn't keep the horrifying rumors of her people secret and word spread throughout Nehekhara that the Lahmian court had become Nagash-worshiping monsters (not untrue). Neferata's solution was to accuse her cousin, [[High Queen Khalida]] who was essentially a [[Paladin]] queen of the nearby kingdom of Lybaras, of being a bloodsucking Undead. The already stupid plan failed when Neferata's duel for honor with Khalida resulted in both receiving mortal wounds despite Neferata's immense power. In desperation she sucked Khalida's blood in front of the assembled nobility who fled in horror to alert Nehekhara that the Undead had returned. Neferata attempted to turn Khalida into a Vampire, but Khalida's dying prayers to her snake goddess Asaph turned her blood to venom and purged the Vampiric taint. Khalida's body was recovered and her people buried her as the greatest Nehekharan monarch after Settra ("greatest ever" is a theme with Nehekharan royalty) while the rest of their people gathered in a massive army.

The Vampires fled to the Black Pyramid where they found Nagash waiting for them, eager to take these new generals to lead the Undead against the living once more. The battle raged for some time, and the leader of the living was captured and held while Nagash used the break in the fighting to begin casting a spell that would kill all life in Nehekhara for use as his animated skeleton army to march on the rest of the world. Unbeknownst to all beings involved, the [[Skaven]] had been watching the conflict and were horrified at what Nagash could do to the world if left undefeated. They forged the ultimate weapon made of pure Warpstone, a dagger so dangerous that upon touching it the bearer was doomed to a horrible and painful death and gave it to the leader of the living, who killed Nagash with it before perishing himself and falling into the ocean where he turned up later bearing Nagash's [[Crown Of Command]]. Nagash, as one last "FUCK YOU" to the living, repurposed his spell to simply kill everything in Nehekhara. Although always a desert with ample skulls (it IS a [[Games Workshop]] IP afterall), the spell rendered the entire land devoid of water or vegetation while the ground layer immediately below the sand is made up of solid skeletons. Animals, merely animated bones, still wander the desert looking for living flesh to tear.

The Vampires began to fight over whose fault the defeat was before making their way north to find more living beings. Some among their number had already fled previously, with Neferata and her husband having deserted even before the battle out of disdain for having to potentially follow Nagash as their leader, while the Captain of the Guard had left immediately after the battle in shame.

The most drastic effect of the spell was the effect it had on the dead; those killed by the spell immediately stood back up, bewildered at their new state. Desert winds stripped the dead flesh from the Nehekharans, leaving only bleached and animated bones remaining. As they returned to their homes they found that the kings of old, now called Tomb Kings, had awoken as well as those Nehekharans who had been entombed in their great tomb cities over the centuries. The commoners were content to reenact their living ways by maintaining the buildings, and shifting from buying, harvesting, and selling food to buying, crafting, "harvesting", and selling rocks and bones shaped like food. This however was not enough for the Tomb Kings. As hundreds upon thousands of generations in the same family line awoke, they immediately came into conflict with one another. For example, great great great great grandpa was enraged at how everyone had forgotten his name and accomplishments, great great great grandpa was shocked that his own son had taken his tomb and shoved the old man's body in a slave's casket in the entrance, great great grandpa demanded explanation for why his son had signed a peace treaty with the king who killed him in a war rather than avenge his father, great grandpa signed the peace treaty so he would be allowed to peacefully marry his own sister, grandpa revealed his son was a bastard that washed up on shore because his own sister/wife had miscarried every babby, dad died at the age of 14 after conceiving a child and demanding a prom be thrown in his honor, son had changed the main faith of the kingdom to another god and pissed off everyone else in the line, and grandson had failed to stop Nagash. Every single one of them wants to be in charge, and sit in the throne that every single one of them sat at during their reign, and every single one has a big enough and infinitely respawning army of skeletons to use to demand they get their way. Fueling the frustration was the relatively poor upkeep many of the early tombs had seen, on top of the worst offense at all; no body of gold, less blessings from the gods, no immortal flesh, only brittle bone and wrappings with the odd scarab or two scuttling around the hollow places inside.

The only exception to the dusty carnage was Khalida, who strode past her warring ancestors who fought over the palace to her own palace which had been located inside the Temple of Asaph, wearing the golden armor and death mask her people had made for her and resembling the promised skin no other Tomb King had received, and took her throne to usher in the only peace to be found in the lands of the dead.

The priesthood, now mummies themselves, found they had absolutely no power over the enraged entirety of the Nehekharan existence. Without option, Khatep (who had reclaimed his Grand Hierophant role) chose to seek out the only Nehekharan who had ever brought peace to the land; Settra, the only Tomb King who had not awoken with Nagash's spell.

Settra's first order of business was to banish Khatep to seek a way to give Settra his promised golden skin. Second, beat the shit out of EVERY Tomb King and secure oaths of loyalty from them. Settra's masterful tactics and general ferocity in battle allowed him to capture each king and end what would otherwise have been eternal wars. Those who bowed and sent tribute were released and allowed to fight over territory with their fellows if they so fit, so long as they knew who the true king was. Those who refused were granted horrible fates even for the undying, including being spread piece by piece into the desert and having their skull used as replenishing artillery ammo for catapults, while on fire. This thinned out the ranks enough to have enough kings able to claim at least a portion of the empires they had while alive. Settra respected Khalida, and secured her oath without need for conflict.

After Settra reestablished the Tomb Kings, he set his sights on eliminating the threat of Nagash as the first Lich was just as undying as the Tomb Kings, and would return in time. Arkhan became a Tomb King mercenary, working for anyone and everyone (even once creating a giant magical bridge for a Tomb King to ride chariots to other lands on) while not-so secretly working on Nagash's resurrection. Khatep wanders the world, looking for a way to give the Tomb Kings solid gold cocks again. Khalida attempts to wipe out all Vampires, everywhere because fuck Vampires and fuck Neferata. Many Tomb Kings and their architects awoke to find their temples desecrated and/or looted, sometimes even by non-Nehekharans! Oftentimes [[Dwarfs (Warhammer Fantasy)|Dwarfs]] or [[Warriors of Chaos]] were to blame, and any Tomb King worth anything will slaughter a genocidal path through the descendants of the thieving fucks while retrieving every single last fleck of gold dust. Other Tomb Kings have taken to enjoying their respawning nature to hunt [[Orcs & Goblins|greenskins]] or even [[Daemons]] like animals for sport. Beyond that even, some wish to emulate what they had in life and will trade or raid other parts of the world to gather anything from real food to slaves for unnecessary harems to fine silks to weave the emblems that otherwise only exist within their own memory on.

Tomb Kings have absolutely no consistent alignment. Some destroy the living out of envy, others like Khalida work willingly with the living, still others like Settra give no fucks as long as you're their underling. Even on the tabletop, the Tomb Kings army is completely Neutral and can work with any other faction.

== Heroes ==
[[File:Image002-1.jpg|200px|thumb|left'''|The Bob Marley of Warhammer''']]
* '''[[Settra the Imperishable]]:''' Settra is like an undead spellcasting Chuck Norris. He's got a weapon skill of 7 and a strength of 6 and eats lesser characters for breakfast. He also has the best beard in the whole Warhammer Realm, this alone making him worth his points. Some claim that Settra is in fact a rastaman, judging by both the length of his beard and the amount of spells he can dish out each turn. He is also made out of an intense amount of cheese. He was nerfed in the more recent edition, but in return you can use him in a 2000pt army. Rides a pimped-out ride called the Chariot Of The Gods.

* '''[[Queen Khalida|High Queen Khalida]]:''' [[Pelor]] can fuck right off, Khalida is responsible for more dead Vampires than little Mr. Sunshine will ever be. Unique among Tomb Kings in that you can actually see what she looked like while alive since she wears armor cast against her corpse although half the face of the mask is gone. Rules a devoutly religious kingdom that hails the goddess of phallic imagery and has the most giant magic robots made of gold out of all the Tomb Kings. Makes your ranged attacks so unbelievably OP you'd think she's a [[Shadowsun|tsun]] [[Tau|alien]].

* '''[[Grand Hierophant Khatep]]:''' The supreme alpha-pope of the Tomb Kings, forbidden from coming home and relaxing until he finds a way to give everyone golden bodies with living sensation.

* '''[[The Herald Nekaph]]''' Nekaph is the best buddy of the undead spellcasting Chuck Norris. He is NOT nice in challenges. He will mangle any Hero he thinks smells a bit off, and can munch some Lords for breakfast too. And so will his flail, since it's comprised of perpetually gnawing skulls. Whether its artificers consulted Khorne about the design of this weapon is anyone's guess.

* '''[[Arkhan the Black]]:''' Nagash's second in command, works with anyone still loyal to Nagash and does odd jobs for just about anyone willing to pay him. Has a crush on the queen of the Vampires, only gets to reveal it to her and have one kiss before the world ends. As a young man, fucked everything that moved and took so little care of himself his nickname refers to his teeth...as a young man.

* '''[[Prince Apophas]]:'''-- He was an evil asshole, so he was put into a crypt to be eaten by beetles. He made a deal with a god though, and now he can fly and barf insects on people. He's a super-powerful warmachine killer. Beyond that, he's not entirely worth it when you consider all the heroes you can choose from. He is also "resembles" but is legally distinct from a similarly named character in an Egyptian themed sci-fi tv show, the titular character from The Mummy and the Egyptian god of evil and chaos and stuff (though you can't copyright ancient mythology) Terrible.

* '''[[Rahmhotep the Visionary]]:'''-- Nehekhara's best architect and most merciless taskmaster. In return for building monuments, the ancient architects would be sacrificed so their ideas couldn't be shared with other kings than the ones who commissioned them, so the man got his fellow architects wasted and then he'd disguise himself as them and go around building monuments. Yeah, how many people can say they escaped sacrifice several times and walk around like nothing was new. He's pretty pissed that everything is falling apart, so he's caught between a murderous rage that is the stuff of legend and playing a one-man game of [[Minecraft]] after a Creeper apocalypse.

* '''Prince Tutankhanut:''' King Tutankhamun expy. Died young, had a golden body that was artificially made for him until he gets his fleshy gold from Khatep.

* '''King Phar:''' In life, absolutely HATED greenskins and was the only man able to defeat Settra in a single battle. Died of old age while fighting him, allowing Settra to claim his kingdom of Mahrak. After rising, he was angered beyond words that his descendants had sworn loyalty to Settra and destroyed their bodies which left him the only ruler of Mahrak. Returned to being Settra's rival and destroying any greenskins in or near Nehekhara. Uses a skull flail that puts those of any Khornate to shame, made from Orc Warboss skulls. In the End Times he was retconned to be from Numas, not Mahrak.

* '''Sehenesmet:''' King of Quatar, a king with the skills of a Necrotect. Perfected the process of animating living statues, and towards the end of his life put himself in one.

* '''Amanhotep:''' The primary Tomb King of Zandri. Taken by [[Bretonnia|Bretonnian]] Knights who thought he was their ancestor and woke up buried in Bretonnian regalia and sealed in a Bretonnian tomb. Woke up, ran amok through the region, then <strike>marched</strike> walked angrily back home while nursing a grudge against not-Frenchmen ever since. Had a special part to play in the [[Dreadfleet]] campaign where once again humans come and wreck his shit, in this case a thief named Jaego Roth from [[Sartosa]] who stole a literal boatload of gold in order to pay mercenaries to sail with him to kill the vampire who killed his family. Amanhotep immediately went to his ship, the ''Curse Of Zandri'', which was a pyramid on a very large Solar Barge with a tail like a [[Warsphinx]] that fired a powerful laser armed with catapults and crewed by Ushabti.

* '''Behedesh:''' Hates greenskins as much as Phar, takes the fight outside Nehekhara to the Old World.

* '''Setep:''' Seeks to make a kingdom in the nearly impassible mountains around northern Nehekhara, the [[Border Princes]]. Rivals include greenskins, Vampires, Dwarfs, and living humans. Made a magical golden sword with a blue edge that slices through normal armor effortlessly and shatters magical armor.

* '''Alkharad:''' A Tomb King in eternal war with [[Slayer]]s over a golden disk stolen by one of their ancestors and set in a hammer. Dwarfs barely recognize humans as having property rights, Undead humans are less than nothing so no crime was committed in their eyes. Alkharad gave them a chance, now the Dwarf race is forfeit and will pay for their dishonor one dead Slayer at a time.

* '''Pharakh:''' Killed by [[The Empire (Warhammer Fantasy)|the Empire]]. Going to blitz the FUCK out of not-Germany once he gets back from resurrection.

==Religion==

* '''Ptra''' The not-Ra sun god and heavily implied to be the god Settra worshipped the most.
* '''Neru''' The Nehekharan goddess of the moon and paramour/love interest of Ptra.
* '''Djaf''' The not-Anubis god of death.
* '''Usirian'''. The not-Osiris god of the Nehekharn underworld, who might also be Morr and a many-faced god of all human afterlives.
* '''[[Asaph]]:''' Snake goddess, primary temple in Lybaras and used as the palace of her champion, High Queen Khalida. Favors ranged combat and tips arrows in magic poison while guiding their path into enemies. Domains are beauty, vengeance, and magic. Also had some priestesses who practiced ritual prostitution, at least in Khemri during Thutep's reign.

==Army Composition==
[[File:Skeletalchariots.jpg|thumb|right|200px|Hit and run]]

To make an appropriately fluffy army rather than a superior army tactically (which has its own page below), the best route is to do like GW and copy non-fictional history.

Although the Mortuary Cult began with Settra, and thus he would logically be the oldest and first Tomb King, it wouldn't be lore breaking to come from an older generation as the Mortuary Cult could have had a less-organized predecessor.

Settra is known for his amazing Chariot Of The Gods, something that indicates his era parallels real-life Egyptian New Kingdom military, where the Egyptians had been introduced to the composite bow and horses, with chariots coming soon after. As a result early Tomb Kings should have ample Horsemen, some Chariots, and Skeleton Archers. The New Kingdom saw the rise of professional armies meaning Settra would have introduced the Tomb Guard.

Any older than Settra would likely be similar to the Egyptian Old Kingdom, made up of large peasant levies armed only with simple bows and basic weapons like clubs. Such a force should have no Chariots, and the oldest would have no cavalry at all. Old Kingdom Egypt relied heavily on its navy for protection, so your Tomb Guard would be marines rather than palace guard.

Constructs were a later invention of the Tomb Kings, and thus only the younger generations should have them in large numbers unless your Tomb King is the sort to be diplomatic and trade (or draw Necrotects away from their rivals with promises and bribes). Likewise, Horsemen should be totally abandoned for Chariots alone. Lybaras had the most complex Constructs among the Tomb Kings, and older Lybaras Tomb Kings may have had access to them earlier than their peers.

All Egyptians regardless of era used heavy ranged support, so feel free to stock up on Catapults, Archers, and whatever else.
Spears remained an uncommon weapon which was normally used by cavalry more than infantry. Most Egyptian forces favored shields.

Egyptians were reliant on mercenary armies and rarely innovated new equipment or tactics, relying instead on applying what successful enemies utilized against them. The only hint of this in the Tomb Kings is Khalida being extremely open to hiring Gotrek and Felix to slay vampires in her name, although with this as a precedent players could field forces from another army as a proxy. Egyptian mercenaries were citizens and used Egyptian colors and symbols rather than those of their own people, so any mercs should be matching the rest of your force (there's also a snippet of lore about living humans cohabiting with the undead Nehekharans in a city, but that lore said that the military was exclusively undead and the living are drafted after they die; their corpses reduced to skeletons then inducted into their ranks). Remember that since Nehekhara is devoid of much life or sources of drinking water that living subjects and forces would be rare and only for Tomb Kings capable of keeping them alive via control of an oasis, coastline, or mountain pass.

==Death of an Era==

In Age of Sigmar, as of February 2016, [[FAIL|the entire Tomb Kings faction was squatted, with the entire model range being moved to the "Last Chance to Buy" section, including Settra]]. Tomb Kings players everywhere cried manly tears of pain and rage. Unconfirmed reports state the only thing that stopped them from marching on Nottingham and laying siege to Games Workshop HQ is a shortage of bones for the catapults, and the Bretonnian players began sharpening their swords waiting for the inevitable. To add insult to injury, the pdf rules for the Tomb Kings were removed from the Games Workshop website at the time.

If you want to get into the army these days, buy the models second-hand or convert some Tomb Kings. As GW has managed to do repeatedly since End Times, they replaced their former iron grip on the market with a void that third parties have filled with various Tomb King replacement model lines from various sculptors and various companies.

RIP Tomb Kings. May your rotting corpse be forever restless. (See Geheimisnacht where they fuck everything over even today.)

This ended up being the harbinger of the future; just as Nehekhara was the first nation destroyed in the End Times (based on the End Times: Nagash armybook being released before the End Times: Khaine armybook), so were the Tomb Kings the first faction to get the axe but not the last. Not long after the Bretonnians got the axe as well and several other product lines took massive hits early on in the life of Age Of <strike>Shitmar</strike> Sigmar, and with each year more and more of the old models were squatted as well as some that weren't even five years old. To date, almost all of the Dwarfs and High Elves ranges have been squatted, with the survivors being combined with the unsurprisingly still thriving Empire range into one faction alongside all the Dark Elves. Goblins were largely removed as well, showing a lack of respect for the past at the time with the most iconic factions and armies as dead as non-Nehekharan skeletons.

==[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o_UIkS5m9gc I Don't Wanna Die, I'm A God, Why Can't I Live On?]==
Not happy with Age of Sigmar, several fans came together to make [[The 9th Age]], a fan-run successor to 8th Edition and Warhammer Fantasy using totes not-copyright violating renames.

Better yet, model manufacturers reached out to make proxies for the Warhammer Fantasy models, replacing that which Games Workshop gave the axe and providing non-Games Workshop alternatives to the rest. The first model range to be replaced? Delicious irony and dried salty tears, it was the Undying Dynasties AKA the not-Tomb Kings.

These come from TMS ([[Tabletop Miniatures Solutions]]) via an Indiegogo campaign (found [https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/tms-undying-dynasties-army-release#/ here]) and will be available to purchase on their store page (found [https://tabletop-miniatures-solutions.com here]).

[[Mantic Games]], GW's upstart young rival, has recently made Tomb Kings fans' lives a lot easier. They've released a line of miniatures for their not-Tomb Kings army, the Empire of Dust, that more or less covers everything you need. The cheeky SOBs stock their models [http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/empire-of-dust.html here], and you should give it at least a look if you're considering a walk on the other side.

Old kings don't die, they just fade away...then come back to life to break their foot off on your ass again.

As of 2019, GW announced they are going to bring back Warhammer Fantasy in some form! Though they also said it wont be ready for a long time, and we don't know what form that will take, so...

==Return in Age of Sigmar!==

In the third page of The Blood of Centuries section from The Realmgates Wars: Godbeasts (pag. 14 if you have the PDF), there is an entry titled Wrath of the Obsidian Monarchy which talks about the Crimson Monarchy (that's GW editors for you),a dynasty of undying kings living in the Voidglass Desert which fight with chariots and skeletal legions, now, you may say these could be vampires, but only the Tomb Kings fit this image. It's quite a small entry, but this leaves open a chance to see some Tomb Kings-like Death factions coming to Age of Sigmar; what with Shysh being now an entire plane of existance for different aftelife realms and undead civilizations thriving. We have seen [[Gotrek & Felix|other things coming back]] [[Squats|despite being declared dead,]] so why not?

Hopes were raised (no pun intended) in a Necropolis video from Warhammer TV on Youtube which seemed to be about an ancient king returning... unfortunately, the faction was revealed to be a faction of OCs of artificially manufactured undead, with their "king" just being a Mortarch. While it has a bone motif, priests, and catapults hurling flaming skulls, it also only resembles the Tomb Kings in the sense that they visually match Nagash and the Morghasts from End Times rather than the '''actual''' Tomb Kings. They even have the Morghasts in their ranks.

Whether it was a giant unpleasant tease or ''"close enough"'' is subjective. But objectively, the Tomb Kings have not returned and the only promise that it could happen is future Made To Order releases.

==Total Warhammer==

The Tomb Kings have arisen again in Total War: WARHAMMER it seems. With Hierotitans capable of shooting eye laser beams no less. Even more, [[Awesome|Settra has a voice actor!]]

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs| Say it with me now!]

==Gallery==
<gallery>
Image:Tomb_Kings_6th.jpg|The 6e/first Army Book.
Image:TombKingsBook_873x627.jpg|The 8e Army Book.
Image:Bone_giant2.jpg|Bone Giants and Bone Catapults; the final word in "GET OFF MY LAWN!"
Image:Tomb_Kings_warsphinx.JPG|Wouldn't be an Egypt-expy without sphinxes.
Image:Destruction_of_nehekhara.png|Fuck you, Nagash and GW
Image:Tomb Kings Squatted.jpg|[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOJB6wTo2wM| Farewell, Tomb Kings] This was the true fall of Nehekhara
</gallery>

==See Also==
* [[Warhammer/Tactics/Tomb Kings|Tactics/Tomb Kings]]
* [[Tomb King Dynasty Creation Tables]]
* [[Necrons]] - With their recent 6th edition fluff update, Necrons are now the TOMB KINGS IN SPEHSS of the 41st millennia.
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3vhpk7DhZM Tomb Kings themesong
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCJ7BOeCpkY&feature=player_embedded#! Tomb Kings better themesong
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Icwd9HYIuq8&feature=player_embedded#! A rather more serious themesong, done by [[Awesome|Egyptian Death Metal]] band Nile.
*http://theendlessdeserts.blogspot.com A fan website dedicated to Tomb Kings in Age of Sigmar, with unofficial rules and lore.

{{Playable Factions in Warhammer Fantasy Battle}}

{{Template:Tomb Kings}}

[[Category:Warhammer Fantasy]]
[[Category:Tomb Kings]]

God

2020-03-24T16:19:22Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:187:B744:68E8:D674: /* Gods in Warhammer */

A '''god''' is what the [[God-Emperor of Mankind]] [[What|aspires to be in authority and perpetuality, while at the same time alternately despising it and fighting or denying its existence therof]].

For an "actual" more generalized definition, gods are beings or spirits worshiped as having power over nature and/or human affairs (also known as a '''deity'''), and are considered far above humanity. They are usually the central focus of a religion (a system of beliefs and teachings revolving around the belief in and worship of a supernatural power). In some accounts they are also the creator (or creators) of the world, the universe and everything in it - in-universe, in the case of some fictional universes. When it comes to the power level of different types of beings, gods are at the top (often with various power levels if there are multiple gods, both in fiction and real-life religions).

In real-life there are various religions, and the majority of the world's population are religious, and even some non-religious people believe in the existence of a god or gods (theism and deism). Evidence of theism goes back well into human prehistory. More on that can be found [[Mythology|here]] and [[Religion|here]].

God or gods are also the origin of the term "miracle"; originally the term for an extraordinary and welcome event that defies, or is inexplicable, by natural or scientific laws and is either proven to be, or attributed to, a divine agency. As a result, divine power fairly often trumps any other power in a fictional story ([[Skub|and real-life, depending on what one believes]]), and is the only thing in fantasy that trumps magic.

There are cases, including in some belief systems, of people or things being mistaken for gods that aren't, or masquerading as gods. Given the inherent authority in godhood, some people use the claim for personal gain, out of extreme arrogance or both.

==Gods in Fantasy and Science Fiction==
Eru Ilúvatar- Supreme creator of the Lord of the Rings universe, though much of creation was actually done by his lesser creations, the Ainur.

Crom- Chief god of the Cimmerian pantheon, Conan invokes his name often. Doesn't really listen to prayers as he despises weakness.

The Elder God- An entity in the Legacy of Kain videogame series, manages the wheel of fate where all souls go to be reincarnated.

Aslan- Basically Lion Jesus in the Narnia series. His dad is the real Big G.

{{stub}}

==Gods in Warhammer==
The 4 Chaos Gods, duh

Sigmar- The man turned god, patron of the Empire.

The old world pantheon of Humans- Various deities worshiped by Humans, most notable probably being Ulric whose cult gets to vote on who becomes Emperor, and was also worshiped by Sigmar. Another notable one is Morr, god of death and the afterlife who may also have gone by the name [[Tomb Kings|Usirian]].

Gork (or is it Mork?)-Brutal but kunnin'.

Mork (or is it Gork?)-Kunnin' but brutal.

The Spider God- Worshiped by Forest Goblins. Likes spiders.

The Dwarf Ancestor Gods- The first dwarfs, ancestors to the whole race. The most high-profile ones are Grungni, Grimnir and Valaya.

Hashut- Likes bulls and bronze.

The Elf pantheon- The various deities of the Elves, notable ones include Asuryan, King of the Gods, Isha, the goddess of healing, fertility, and the harvest, and Khaine, the god of war and murder.

The Horned Rat- The big fucking rat god of the Skaven. Is a huge jerk.

The Great Maw- Giant mouth worshiped by Ogres.

The Lizardmen worshipped the Old Ones as gods, only some of which are known.

==Gods in D&D==
Pretty much every setting has some sort of fantasy pantheon, since gods are usually required for clerics and paladins to get their God-given powers. Still, some manage to put a twist on the typical formula.

The Forgotten Realms have a truly ridiculous amount of gods, with each race (except humans) having their own pantheon. The only one of real interest, however, is the Faerunian pantheon. That's where you have Mystra, Helm, Deneir and all the other cool guys. The only time the gods really did anything unusual was that one time they came down to solve their petty squabbles in Faerun.

Athas of the Dark Sun setting is an interesting variation in that it's one of the very few settings where gods very definitely don't exist. Depending on the setting you prefer, they either noped straight outta there when they saw how fucked up the world was or were all killed by the primordials. In their absence, clerics get their power from the elemental planes.

On [[Masque of the Red Death|Gothic Earth]] there is no character class linked to deities, unless one decides to count the antagonistic Red Death as a deity, which would make all spellcasters so to a degree. The sole divine caster class, Mystic, draws their power from understanding the spirit world. Gothic Earth is still Earth however, so all religions around in the late 1800s do exist there, just without mechanical power. By contrast, D&D's ''other'' Urban Fantasy setting, [[Urban Arcana]], allows any deity from Earthly religion to grant spells to faithful, but also allows the same of deities of Shadowkind that have fallen to Earth. [[Dark Matter]], which D&D briefly adopted as a campaign setting, features "functional religion" as a provable enough fact and has magic from both dark cults and a Christian secret society explicitly exist (with other sources presumable). Unlike arcane magic, divine magic is not fully documented and replicateable on demand, at least not by the Hoffman Institute that serves as the default viewpoint/PC employer.

Eberron leaves it mainly ambiguous, as the gods don't really act directly. Ever, so they might not exist. Clerics and paladins do get magical powers, but it stems from belief, not actual God-given poets. This works so that even followers of religions known out of character to be scams, like Cults and [[Path of Inspiration]], can get spells, as can [[Heretic]]s.

{{stub}}

==See Also==
*[[Mythology]]

[[Category:Gods]]

God

2020-03-24T16:17:14Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:187:B744:68E8:D674: /* Gods in Fantasy and Science Fiction */

A '''god''' is what the [[God-Emperor of Mankind]] [[What|aspires to be in authority and perpetuality, while at the same time alternately despising it and fighting or denying its existence therof]].

For an "actual" more generalized definition, gods are beings or spirits worshiped as having power over nature and/or human affairs (also known as a '''deity'''), and are considered far above humanity. They are usually the central focus of a religion (a system of beliefs and teachings revolving around the belief in and worship of a supernatural power). In some accounts they are also the creator (or creators) of the world, the universe and everything in it - in-universe, in the case of some fictional universes. When it comes to the power level of different types of beings, gods are at the top (often with various power levels if there are multiple gods, both in fiction and real-life religions).

In real-life there are various religions, and the majority of the world's population are religious, and even some non-religious people believe in the existence of a god or gods (theism and deism). Evidence of theism goes back well into human prehistory. More on that can be found [[Mythology|here]] and [[Religion|here]].

God or gods are also the origin of the term "miracle"; originally the term for an extraordinary and welcome event that defies, or is inexplicable, by natural or scientific laws and is either proven to be, or attributed to, a divine agency. As a result, divine power fairly often trumps any other power in a fictional story ([[Skub|and real-life, depending on what one believes]]), and is the only thing in fantasy that trumps magic.

There are cases, including in some belief systems, of people or things being mistaken for gods that aren't, or masquerading as gods. Given the inherent authority in godhood, some people use the claim for personal gain, out of extreme arrogance or both.

==Gods in Fantasy and Science Fiction==
Eru Ilúvatar- Supreme creator of the Lord of the Rings universe, though much of creation was actually done by his lesser creations, the Ainur.

Crom- Chief god of the Cimmerian pantheon, Conan invokes his name often. Doesn't really listen to prayers as he despises weakness.

The Elder God- An entity in the Legacy of Kain videogame series, manages the wheel of fate where all souls go to be reincarnated.

Aslan- Basically Lion Jesus in the Narnia series. His dad is the real Big G.

{{stub}}

==Gods in Warhammer==
The 4 Chaos Gods, duh

Sigmar- The man turned god, patron of the Empire.

The old world pantheon of Humans- Various deities worshiped by Humans, most notable probably being Ulric whose cult gets to vote on who becomes Emperor, and was also worshiped by Sigmar.

Gork (or is it Mork?)-Brutal but kunnin'.

Mork (or is it Gork?)-Kunnin' but brutal.

The Spider God- Worshiped by Forest Goblins. Likes spiders.

The Dwarf Ancestor Gods- The first dwarfs, ancestors to the whole race. The most high-profile ones are Grungni, Grimnir and Valaya.

Hashut- Likes bulls and bronze.

The Elf pantheon- The various deities of the Elves, notable ones include Asuryan, King of the Gods, Isha, the goddess of healing, fertility, and the harvest, and Khaine, the god of war and murder.

The Horned Rat- The big fucking rat god of the Skaven. Is a huge jerk.

The Great Maw- Giant mouth worshiped by Ogres.

The Lizardmen worshipped the Old Ones as gods, only some of which are known.

==Gods in D&D==
Pretty much every setting has some sort of fantasy pantheon, since gods are usually required for clerics and paladins to get their God-given powers. Still, some manage to put a twist on the typical formula.

The Forgotten Realms have a truly ridiculous amount of gods, with each race (except humans) having their own pantheon. The only one of real interest, however, is the Faerunian pantheon. That's where you have Mystra, Helm, Deneir and all the other cool guys. The only time the gods really did anything unusual was that one time they came down to solve their petty squabbles in Faerun.

Athas of the Dark Sun setting is an interesting variation in that it's one of the very few settings where gods very definitely don't exist. Depending on the setting you prefer, they either noped straight outta there when they saw how fucked up the world was or were all killed by the primordials. In their absence, clerics get their power from the elemental planes.

On [[Masque of the Red Death|Gothic Earth]] there is no character class linked to deities, unless one decides to count the antagonistic Red Death as a deity, which would make all spellcasters so to a degree. The sole divine caster class, Mystic, draws their power from understanding the spirit world. Gothic Earth is still Earth however, so all religions around in the late 1800s do exist there, just without mechanical power. By contrast, D&D's ''other'' Urban Fantasy setting, [[Urban Arcana]], allows any deity from Earthly religion to grant spells to faithful, but also allows the same of deities of Shadowkind that have fallen to Earth. [[Dark Matter]], which D&D briefly adopted as a campaign setting, features "functional religion" as a provable enough fact and has magic from both dark cults and a Christian secret society explicitly exist (with other sources presumable). Unlike arcane magic, divine magic is not fully documented and replicateable on demand, at least not by the Hoffman Institute that serves as the default viewpoint/PC employer.

Eberron leaves it mainly ambiguous, as the gods don't really act directly. Ever, so they might not exist. Clerics and paladins do get magical powers, but it stems from belief, not actual God-given poets. This works so that even followers of religions known out of character to be scams, like Cults and [[Path of Inspiration]], can get spells, as can [[Heretic]]s.

{{stub}}

==See Also==
*[[Mythology]]

[[Category:Gods]]

God

2020-03-24T16:15:27Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:187:B744:68E8:D674: /* Gods in Warhammer */

A '''god''' is what the [[God-Emperor of Mankind]] [[What|aspires to be in authority and perpetuality, while at the same time alternately despising it and fighting or denying its existence therof]].

For an "actual" more generalized definition, gods are beings or spirits worshiped as having power over nature and/or human affairs (also known as a '''deity'''), and are considered far above humanity. They are usually the central focus of a religion (a system of beliefs and teachings revolving around the belief in and worship of a supernatural power). In some accounts they are also the creator (or creators) of the world, the universe and everything in it - in-universe, in the case of some fictional universes. When it comes to the power level of different types of beings, gods are at the top (often with various power levels if there are multiple gods, both in fiction and real-life religions).

In real-life there are various religions, and the majority of the world's population are religious, and even some non-religious people believe in the existence of a god or gods (theism and deism). Evidence of theism goes back well into human prehistory. More on that can be found [[Mythology|here]] and [[Religion|here]].

God or gods are also the origin of the term "miracle"; originally the term for an extraordinary and welcome event that defies, or is inexplicable, by natural or scientific laws and is either proven to be, or attributed to, a divine agency. As a result, divine power fairly often trumps any other power in a fictional story ([[Skub|and real-life, depending on what one believes]]), and is the only thing in fantasy that trumps magic.

There are cases, including in some belief systems, of people or things being mistaken for gods that aren't, or masquerading as gods. Given the inherent authority in godhood, some people use the claim for personal gain, out of extreme arrogance or both.

==Gods in Fantasy and Science Fiction==
Eru Ilúvatar- Supreme creator of the Lord of the Rings universe, though much of creation was actually done by his lesser creations, the Ainur.

Crom- Chief god of the Cimmerian pantheon, Conan invokes his name often. Doesn't really listen to prayers as he despises weakness.

The Elder God- An entity in the Legacy of Kain videogame series, manages the wheel of fate where all souls go to be reincarnated.

Aslan- Basically Lion Jesus in the Narnia series. His dad is the real Big G.

{{stub}}

==Gods in Warhammer==
The 4 Chaos Gods, duh

Sigmar- The man turned god, patron of the Empire.

The old world pantheon of Humans- Various deities worshiped by Humans, most notable probably being Ulric whose cult gets to vote on who becomes Emperor, and was also worshiped by Sigmar.

Gork (or is it Mork?)-Brutal but kunnin'.

Mork (or is it Gork?)-Kunnin' but brutal.

The Spider God- Worshiped by Forest Goblins. Likes spiders.

The Dwarf Ancestor Gods- The first dwarfs, ancestors to the whole race. The most high-profile ones are Grungni, Grimnir and Valaya.

Hashut- Likes bulls and bronze.

The Elf pantheon- The various deities of the Elves, notable ones include Asuryan, King of the Gods, Isha, the goddess of healing, fertility, and the harvest, and Khaine, the god of war and murder.

The Horned Rat- The big fucking rat god of the Skaven. Is a huge jerk.

The Great Maw- Giant mouth worshiped by Ogres.

The Lizardmen worshipped the Old Ones as gods, only some of which are known.

==Gods in D&D==
Pretty much every setting has some sort of fantasy pantheon, since gods are usually required for clerics and paladins to get their God-given powers. Still, some manage to put a twist on the typical formula.

The Forgotten Realms have a truly ridiculous amount of gods, with each race (except humans) having their own pantheon. The only one of real interest, however, is the Faerunian pantheon. That's where you have Mystra, Helm, Deneir and all the other cool guys. The only time the gods really did anything unusual was that one time they came down to solve their petty squabbles in Faerun.

Athas of the Dark Sun setting is an interesting variation in that it's one of the very few settings where gods very definitely don't exist. Depending on the setting you prefer, they either noped straight outta there when they saw how fucked up the world was or were all killed by the primordials. In their absence, clerics get their power from the elemental planes.

On [[Masque of the Red Death|Gothic Earth]] there is no character class linked to deities, unless one decides to count the antagonistic Red Death as a deity, which would make all spellcasters so to a degree. The sole divine caster class, Mystic, draws their power from understanding the spirit world. Gothic Earth is still Earth however, so all religions around in the late 1800s do exist there, just without mechanical power. By contrast, D&D's ''other'' Urban Fantasy setting, [[Urban Arcana]], allows any deity from Earthly religion to grant spells to faithful, but also allows the same of deities of Shadowkind that have fallen to Earth. [[Dark Matter]], which D&D briefly adopted as a campaign setting, features "functional religion" as a provable enough fact and has magic from both dark cults and a Christian secret society explicitly exist (with other sources presumable). Unlike arcane magic, divine magic is not fully documented and replicateable on demand, at least not by the Hoffman Institute that serves as the default viewpoint/PC employer.

Eberron leaves it mainly ambiguous, as the gods don't really act directly. Ever, so they might not exist. Clerics and paladins do get magical powers, but it stems from belief, not actual God-given poets. This works so that even followers of religions known out of character to be scams, like Cults and [[Path of Inspiration]], can get spells, as can [[Heretic]]s.

{{stub}}

==See Also==
*[[Mythology]]

[[Category:Gods]]

Religion

2020-03-24T16:11:25Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:187:B744:68E8:D674: /* How this impacts /tg/ */

{{topquote|Science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge, which is power; religion gives man wisdom, which is control. Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly with values. The two are not rivals.|Martin Luther King, Jr}}

:'''Dracula''': ''I was called here by, huuuuumans, who wish to pay me tribute!''
:'''Richter Belmont''': ''Tribute?! You steal men's souls! And make them your slaves!''
:'''Dracula''': ''Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.''
::--An excerpt from the infamous exchange that also gave us "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets" in [[Castlevania#Castlevania:_Symphony_Of_The_Night_.28Castlevania_9.29|Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.]]

Because it's important to several settings and RPG systems, particularly ones that are high-profile or relevant to /tg/, we have a religion article. Let's try and keep it focused on the directly-related-to-/tg/ stuff and not descend into the pure [[skub]] that can arise in discussions of real-life religions, okay?

==Definition of Religion==
Almost since the inception of the term, scholars have failed to agree on a definition of religion. While there are some belief systems that always count as religions, some have applied the term to various things such as political ideologies, or groups when they reach a certain point. There are however two general definition systems: the sociological/functional and the phenomenological/philosophical.

The two most widely accepted are:
* "a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things, that is to say things set apart and forbidden - beliefs and practices which unite into one single moral community called a church, all those who adhere to them."
* "a comprehensive worldview or 'metaphysical moral vision' that is accepted as binding because it is held to be in itself basically true and just even if all dimensions of it cannot be either fully confirmed or refuted".

As stated before, one common element that every religion which fits the criteria has is humanity's relation to supernatural forces, as all of them have at least one [[God|god]] and/or an afterlife even where there are exceptions; Buddhism doesn't have any gods but has afterlives, and Taoism doesn't have an afterlife but does have a pantheistic concept of a god as a supernatural force.

Like other terms for heavily [[SJW|debated]] [[communism|subjects]], religion and religious have also been used as insults or Snarl Words in social and political discussions (especially from the 20th century and onwards) to ridicule groups openly promoting something the user disagrees with. This snarl creates a caricature of the group to smear them by association with the worst excesses/negative stereotypes of real-world religious people (like being too preachy, judgmental, irrational, hypocritical, or pressuring everyone to convert).

==Religion vs. Mythology==
While [[Mythology|mythologies]] aren't religions in and of themselves, every religion has a mythology. While mythologies are merely the accounts of supernatural events, religions also have several criteria such as how life should be lived, what happens to a person after death and humanity's relation to the supernatural. [[Skub|Whatever the source]], the mythology almost always predates the religion. As a result, especially since the Fantasy genre deals in supernatural beings and forces, most if not all fantasy settings have religions. Science fiction does to a lesser degree, mostly because during the Golden Age of sci-fi empiricists and secular humanists were attracted to the genre and their views often seeped into their stories. Despite this, given that most real-life societies have had religions playing a role in or since their founding, religions are still found in sci-fi.

Religions involves belief systems and practices, where an adherent can call upon the power/being the religion is focused on to give them aid in [[cleric|various]] [[Paladin|ways]], depending at the very least on the religion and the task in question. Given that religions are about people's place in the world, how it was made, ideas on how life should be lived and what happens after death, they have major implications for societies. Given that people can become [[Exarch|dangerously single-minded]] about a cause, people can be become extremists about their religion, regardless of the fact that [[Heironeous|some]] are more benevolent than [[Asmodeus|others]] and in numerous cases even [[Heresy|if it involves going against the religion's teachings]]; in conjunction with the above this means religious conflicts can become widespread, long-lasting, cause carnage and also involve other elements such as politics.

==Role in Society==
A person's belief (for or against) any or all religions is a major factor in their worldview, and as such often serves as the undercurrent for all others. This is because this belief shapes people's views on the big things such as the purpose of life, how life should be lived in relation to oneself and others and what happens to people after they die. On the upside, this often leads to teachings with the goal of unity, peace, charity and co-operation as per the teachings of most religions, some of which are adapted by or also found among non-religious systems. On the downside, this can lead to clashes over how the people involved do the will of whichever beings or forces they follow, which religion should be followed or whether or not people should follow a god or religion at all. This can involve arguments and factionalizing, or in some cases worse things like pogroms and wars. Since they are an overarching and fairly common element in cultures, they often appear or are referenced in fiction.

The most common religious belief systems are the Abrahamic family of religions (primarily Judaism, Christianity and Islam) which are Monotheistic (belief in a singular God) and share many common elements and root, with - at the time this was written - Christianity being the most followed religion globally.

Within the last few centuries, particularly due to events such as the French Revolution, there has also been a significant amount of anti-religious sentiment, with those who hold this view considering religion at best redundant and at worst destructive (beyond historical grievances with specific groups within religions, reasons for this view and whether or not those arguments have any merit, shall not be discussed here). Interestingly, numerous tyrannical regimes have tried to restrict or stamp out religions, as most religions teach at least some benevolence, and tyrants don't like being answerable to anyone. Some nations have just tried to block specific religions. Several nations have tried to get rid of religion altogether, albeit with horrifying [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists results] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge_rule_of_Cambodia#Religious_communities each] time; even at best they sidegrade from one set of problems to another.

==How this impacts /tg/==
A few major ways. There are three major "modes" of /tg/ settings and related fictions:

*# The purely functional. Compared to the two types of writers found below, these writers are usually just attempting to model their work after real-world [[Mythology]] and are frequently attempting to keep their views of Religion separate from their work. Frequently comes in one of two subspecies:
*#* The [[Standard Fantasy Setting]] default: The world is ruled by an ordinary polytheistic pantheon, usually close to some admixture of Norse and Greek mythologies. Some of them also have a Top God - one more powerful than all the others and maybe the in-universe creator of everything - who is mostly hands-off in cosmic affairs. The gods of these religions tend to focus on specific areas (gods of [[Paladin|Justice]] and [[Druid|Nature]] are common, for subtly obvious reasons) and frequently want their followers to propagate or promote these things.
*#* The kind of setting they wanted to make dictated the nature of the divine. For example, in [[Exalted]] just about all the figures anybody would call a "God" (besides the Exalted) are Useless, because the Exalted (which includes the Player Characters) are supposed to be the Most Important People in the world, to go with the main theme of the setting for the PCs: "You can do '''almost anything''', except ''avoid the consequences of being the one who did that anything''".
*# There are several writers of Science Fiction and Fantasy that are of the opinion "Religion Is Bad". This is more common in Sci-Fi than fantasy because the focus on science appeals to the naturalist, empiricist and/or humanist worldview of writers who have it, with the supernatural being seen as an obstacle to that; personal issues of the author such as grievance or prejudice can also play a role, but that's case-by-case and a major can of worms. As a result, those writers model their fictional religions on the - occasionally exaggerated - worst excesses of real world religious people and lift imagery from those religions. Popular targets are Christianity, Islam, the Aztec and Scientology (to be honest, in recent history it’s usually the first one). This comes in flavors of either "The Gods Don't Exist", "The Gods are Incompetent" (more on that below) or "The Gods are all Evil".
*# There are also quite a few sincerely religious Science Fiction and Fantasy writers (usually Christian, but not always). These authors usually put more thought into their fictional religion plus its central figure (although they have a tendency to go all "Crystal Dragon Jesus"), and try and have it be at least a somewhat good influence, although religious institutions and leaders are usually hit-and-miss affairs.

If a work has multiple writers, (as frequently happens with RPG and Wargame settings, and quite a few popular SciFi/Fantasy ones as well) there's a tendency for the writers to try and pull the setting into one of the other two "modes" depending on their views. This leads to the theme changing from one side to the other as the story progresses (such as [[World of Warcraft|the spate of retcons to the cosmology of the Warcraft universe]]), or swinging back and forth between them.

Doing the "The Gods are Incompetent" thing (the similar but different "The Gods are Insane", "The Gods Are Assholes" and "The Gods Don't Actually Do Anything" routes also falls under this umbrella) can go into any of the three; in a sincere monotheist's (such as Christian) work, it can be a "Take That" to polytheistic religions; in a "Religion is Bad" atheist's, it can be one to religion in general; in a Buddhist-influenced work, it can be a part of the whole "even the Gods are tied up in the Wheel of Karma" concept; and, even if the author is not pushing any religious message in any way, there's a neutral, plot-structural reason to go "Incompetent Gods": it can make the adventurers the Most Competent People Available.

[[Urban Fantasy]] writers are a special case, since almost all Urban Fantasy is set in something that might be called "the real world with a twist", with all the usual political trouble that implies. Usually, they take one of two routes. The first is "there are many possible explanations" and vague things up as much as possible (Faith being the power that repels [[Vampire]]s rather than than a cross having any actual connection to a deity is a popular one). The second (which is rarer outside of Cosmic Horror) is straight up [[Edgy|atheistic/"Religion is Bad"]] [[Imperial Truth|propaganda]], and in practice the writer often has an axe to grind against a specific religion (almost always the popular targets listed above). Some Urban Fantasy works with a clear correct religion exist thanks to the above mentioned sincerely religious authors, which are typically [[Chick Tracts|barely veiled proselytizing]] or [[Twilight|just straight up terrible]], though [[Monster Hunter International|there are some good ones]].
Speaking of Cosmic horror, that can also fall under the Urban Fantasy umbrella, and it blends the "Gods Don't Exist" or "Gods are Evil" route into "The Gods are actually Incomprehensible and Destructive Aliens". This also has the side effect of making it a popular choice for atheistic tracts (even Lovecraft himself was an anti-religious materialist).

Further, note the "Religion is Bad" and "Religion is Good" brigades will be involved in arguments over the relative morality or "goodness" of various factions in the story and the accuracy of any messages a writer presents.

==Examples of /tg/ connected fictional religions==
* The [[Imperial Truth]]/[[Imperial Cult|Cult]] in [[Warhammer 40,000]] manages to mix features of atheism, Catholicism, and generic fanaticism and xenophobia. Religiosity is mostly explored with humans and no real religions are used (since the Emperor [[The Last Church|violently purged them and those who followed them]] - except for maybe [[Ollanius Pius|one Catholic Perpetual]], and this all happened before [[Chaos]] entered the picture...). As for the other major factions;
** All Greenskins worship Gork and Mork (jury's out on whether the [[Gretchin Revolutionary Committee]] do), but are too disorganized to have anything like a formal religion, though they do make effigies of Gork and Mork and call on them.
** The T'au creed "The Greater Good" is a philosophy that allows religiosity as long as it doesn't clash with the Greater Good, but if there's a clash The Greater Good is always given priority over a religion.
** The Eldar Pantheon's religious practices aren't fleshed out save for those of Cegorach and Khaine, via the Harlequins and Aspect Warriors. Apart form these two, with most of their gods out of commission, most Eldar religious worship is of a deistic bent. The new faith around Ynnead, the Ynnari, have yet to establish teachings or rituals. As for the rest of the Eldar race, the Corsairs are all over the place, the Dark Eldar are irreligious for the most part (the popular exception are the [[Incubi]] who hold [[Khaine]] in high regard) and there's rumors of Chaos Eldar.
** While the Necrontyr had religions before certain [[C'tan|star entities]] [[Necrons|roboticizied them]], those aren't fleshed out or detailed. Its also heavily implied the C'tan co-opted the Necrontyr religion beforehand, with the change to Necrons taking the higher though processes of most of them. Any Necrons with any comprehension of faith and religiosity either worship the C'tan or have become irreligious.
** Tyranids have some concept of religiosity, as seen with propagating [[Genestealer]] cults and the Deathleaper understanding the concept of martyrdom, but otherwise display no interest or regard for anything other than their all-consuming extra-galactic hunger.
* Among Dungeons and Dragons settings, [[Planescape]], [[Eberron]], and [[Pathfinder]] are notable for having some coherent things that could be called "Religions", rather then the usual generic Pantheism.
** Most of Planescape's Factions effectively count as religions, to the point they can produce [[Cleric]]s ([[Planescape: Torment#Fall-From-Grace|Atheist ones at that]]). Yes, even the Athar. (Perhaps ''especially'' the Athar.)
** Half of Eberron's religions aren't worship of deities. The [[Blood of Vol]] seeks to unlock the divinity within one's self and rejects the gods (if they even exist) and the [[Path of Inspiration]] seeks to improve their next reincarnation. The Undying Court worships not gods but their undead ancestors that make up their government. The [[Path of Light]], [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Becoming_God|Becoming God]] and [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Reforged|Reforged]] all seek to ''create'' a deity. Even some interpretations of the [[Sovereign Host]], like the one most common among dragons, don't worship them as deities. Due to the way divine casting works in Eberron, all of these can produce divine casters.
** There's a handful of religions on [[Golarion]] that aren't merely worship of pantheons. The most prominent (read: Actually has mechanical support) is the [[Prophecies of Kalistrade]], which is basically fantasy [[Star Trek|Ferengi]].
* [[D20 Modern]]'s [[Urban Arcana]], unusually for urban fantasy, has D&D deities bleed into reality alongside the monsters. You are still able to play a <s>cleric</s> "acolyte" of any real world deity despite this.
* [[Star Wars]] is inconsistent on if the [[The Force]] is a religion. The Jedi and the Sith ''could'' both be considered religions as they are considered monastic, but mix in several other traits such as being meritocratic (Jedi) and kraterocratic (Sith) and Lucas himself has axed at least one prototyped book for portraying them too much as a religion. It's also notable that the Sith were former Jedi who left the Jedi path for several reasons including [[Heresy|disagreements over the teachings of that creed]]. Aside from that, religion is nearly always a non-human tradition, something noted in a culture's historical background and never seen implying its extinction, or a scam. The religiously linked "damn" and "hell" are the two real world swear words that exist in-universe, purely because Han Solo used them in the films, and some concept of an "angel" exists because a young Anakin told Padme about them in the prequel trilogy films.
** There are rare exceptions where a religion is fleshed out and explored, and the writing goes various directions for better or worse. A notable example is the aggressive polytheistic religion of the antagonistic Yuuzhan Vong from the EU (which the story gradually revealed was long ago perverted from benevolent roots, and this perverted form takes a few cues from Islam and Aztec mythology).
* Very large books could be written about religion and [[World of Darkness]]/Chronicles of Darkness. We'll just cover a few highlights:
** From [[Vampire: The Requiem]], there's the the Lancea et Sanctum, which might be best described as "Christianity for Vampires", and the Circle of the Crone, which is "Pagan Vampires". Both have Vampire miracles on tap (pun intended).
** [[Hunter: The Vigil]] has various religious organizations among the Compacts and Conspiracies.
** [[Mage: The Ascension]] has various religious Traditions, portrayed in that highly-stereotypical and highly-depending-on-the-author way typical of old WoD.

==See also==
* [[Mythology]]

[[Category:Not related]]
[[Category:History]]

Religion

2020-03-24T16:05:22Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:187:B744:68E8:D674: /* How this impacts /tg/ */

{{topquote|Science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge, which is power; religion gives man wisdom, which is control. Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly with values. The two are not rivals.|Martin Luther King, Jr}}

:'''Dracula''': ''I was called here by, huuuuumans, who wish to pay me tribute!''
:'''Richter Belmont''': ''Tribute?! You steal men's souls! And make them your slaves!''
:'''Dracula''': ''Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.''
::--An excerpt from the infamous exchange that also gave us "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets" in [[Castlevania#Castlevania:_Symphony_Of_The_Night_.28Castlevania_9.29|Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.]]

Because it's important to several settings and RPG systems, particularly ones that are high-profile or relevant to /tg/, we have a religion article. Let's try and keep it focused on the directly-related-to-/tg/ stuff and not descend into the pure [[skub]] that can arise in discussions of real-life religions, okay?

==Definition of Religion==
Almost since the inception of the term, scholars have failed to agree on a definition of religion. While there are some belief systems that always count as religions, some have applied the term to various things such as political ideologies, or groups when they reach a certain point. There are however two general definition systems: the sociological/functional and the phenomenological/philosophical.

The two most widely accepted are:
* "a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things, that is to say things set apart and forbidden - beliefs and practices which unite into one single moral community called a church, all those who adhere to them."
* "a comprehensive worldview or 'metaphysical moral vision' that is accepted as binding because it is held to be in itself basically true and just even if all dimensions of it cannot be either fully confirmed or refuted".

As stated before, one common element that every religion which fits the criteria has is humanity's relation to supernatural forces, as all of them have at least one [[God|god]] and/or an afterlife even where there are exceptions; Buddhism doesn't have any gods but has afterlives, and Taoism doesn't have an afterlife but does have a pantheistic concept of a god as a supernatural force.

Like other terms for heavily [[SJW|debated]] [[communism|subjects]], religion and religious have also been used as insults or Snarl Words in social and political discussions (especially from the 20th century and onwards) to ridicule groups openly promoting something the user disagrees with. This snarl creates a caricature of the group to smear them by association with the worst excesses/negative stereotypes of real-world religious people (like being too preachy, judgmental, irrational, hypocritical, or pressuring everyone to convert).

==Religion vs. Mythology==
While [[Mythology|mythologies]] aren't religions in and of themselves, every religion has a mythology. While mythologies are merely the accounts of supernatural events, religions also have several criteria such as how life should be lived, what happens to a person after death and humanity's relation to the supernatural. [[Skub|Whatever the source]], the mythology almost always predates the religion. As a result, especially since the Fantasy genre deals in supernatural beings and forces, most if not all fantasy settings have religions. Science fiction does to a lesser degree, mostly because during the Golden Age of sci-fi empiricists and secular humanists were attracted to the genre and their views often seeped into their stories. Despite this, given that most real-life societies have had religions playing a role in or since their founding, religions are still found in sci-fi.

Religions involves belief systems and practices, where an adherent can call upon the power/being the religion is focused on to give them aid in [[cleric|various]] [[Paladin|ways]], depending at the very least on the religion and the task in question. Given that religions are about people's place in the world, how it was made, ideas on how life should be lived and what happens after death, they have major implications for societies. Given that people can become [[Exarch|dangerously single-minded]] about a cause, people can be become extremists about their religion, regardless of the fact that [[Heironeous|some]] are more benevolent than [[Asmodeus|others]] and in numerous cases even [[Heresy|if it involves going against the religion's teachings]]; in conjunction with the above this means religious conflicts can become widespread, long-lasting, cause carnage and also involve other elements such as politics.

==Role in Society==
A person's belief (for or against) any or all religions is a major factor in their worldview, and as such often serves as the undercurrent for all others. This is because this belief shapes people's views on the big things such as the purpose of life, how life should be lived in relation to oneself and others and what happens to people after they die. On the upside, this often leads to teachings with the goal of unity, peace, charity and co-operation as per the teachings of most religions, some of which are adapted by or also found among non-religious systems. On the downside, this can lead to clashes over how the people involved do the will of whichever beings or forces they follow, which religion should be followed or whether or not people should follow a god or religion at all. This can involve arguments and factionalizing, or in some cases worse things like pogroms and wars. Since they are an overarching and fairly common element in cultures, they often appear or are referenced in fiction.

The most common religious belief systems are the Abrahamic family of religions (primarily Judaism, Christianity and Islam) which are Monotheistic (belief in a singular God) and share many common elements and root, with - at the time this was written - Christianity being the most followed religion globally.

Within the last few centuries, particularly due to events such as the French Revolution, there has also been a significant amount of anti-religious sentiment, with those who hold this view considering religion at best redundant and at worst destructive (beyond historical grievances with specific groups within religions, reasons for this view and whether or not those arguments have any merit, shall not be discussed here). Interestingly, numerous tyrannical regimes have tried to restrict or stamp out religions, as most religions teach at least some benevolence, and tyrants don't like being answerable to anyone. Some nations have just tried to block specific religions. Several nations have tried to get rid of religion altogether, albeit with horrifying [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists results] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge_rule_of_Cambodia#Religious_communities each] time; even at best they sidegrade from one set of problems to another.

==How this impacts /tg/==
A few major ways. There are three major "modes" of /tg/ settings and related fictions:

*# The purely functional. Compared to the two types of writers found below, these writers are usually just attempting to model their work after real-world [[Mythology]] and are frequently attempting to keep their views of Religion separate from their work. Frequently comes in one of two subspecies:
*#* The [[Standard Fantasy Setting]] default: The world is ruled by an ordinary polytheistic pantheon, usually close to some admixture of Norse and Greek mythologies. Some of them also have a Top God - one more powerful than all the others and maybe the in-universe creator of everything - who is mostly hands-off in cosmic affairs. The gods of these religions tend to focus on specific areas (gods of [[Paladin|Justice]] and [[Druid|Nature]] are common, for subtly obvious reasons) and frequently want their followers to propagate or promote these things.
*# There are several writers of Science Fiction and Fantasy that are of the opinion "Religion Is Bad". This is more common in Sci-Fi than fantasy because the focus on science appeals to the naturalist, empiricist and/or humanist worldview of writers who have it, with the supernatural being seen as an obstacle to that; personal issues of the author such as grievance or prejudice can also play a role, but that's case-by-case and a major can of worms. As a result, those writers model their fictional religions on the - occasionally exaggerated - worst excesses of real world religious people and lift imagery from those religions. Popular targets are Christianity, Islam, the Aztec and Scientology (to be honest, in recent history it’s usually the first one). This comes in flavors of either "The Gods Don't Exist", "The Gods are Incompetent" (more on that below) or "The Gods are all Evil".
*# There are also quite a few sincerely religious Science Fiction and Fantasy writers (usually Christian, but not always). These authors usually put more thought into their fictional religion plus its central figure (although they have a tendency to go all "Crystal Dragon Jesus"), and try and have it be at least a somewhat good influence, although religious institutions and leaders are usually hit-and-miss affairs.

If a work has multiple writers, (as frequently happens with RPG and Wargame settings, and quite a few popular SciFi/Fantasy ones as well) there's a tendency for the writers to try and pull the setting into one of the other two "modes" depending on their views. This leads to the theme changing from one side to the other as the story progresses (such as [[World of Warcraft|the spate of retcons to the cosmology of the Warcraft universe]]), or swinging back and forth between them.

Doing the "The Gods are Incompetent" thing (the similar but different "The Gods are Insane", "The Gods Are Assholes" and "The Gods Don't Actually Do Anything" routes also falls under this umbrella) can go into any of the three; in a sincere monotheist's (such as Christian) work, it can be a "Take That" to polytheistic religions; in a "Religion is Bad" atheist's, it can be one to religion in general; in a Buddhist-influenced work, it can be a part of the whole "even the Gods are tied up in the Wheel of Karma" concept; and, even if the author is not pushing any religious message in any way, there's a neutral, plot-structural reason to go "Incompetent Gods": it can make the adventurers the Most Competent People Available.

[[Urban Fantasy]] writers are a special case, since almost all Urban Fantasy is set in something that might be called "the real world with a twist", with all the usual political trouble that implies. Usually, they take one of two routes. The first is "there are many possible explanations" and vague things up as much as possible (Faith being the power that repels [[Vampire]]s rather than than a cross having any actual connection to a deity is a popular one). The second (which is rarer outside of Cosmic Horror) is straight up [[Edgy|atheistic/"Religion is Bad"]] [[Imperial Truth|propaganda]], and in practice the writer often has an axe to grind against a specific religion (almost always the popular targets listed above). Some Urban Fantasy works with a clear correct religion exist thanks to the above mentioned sincerely religious authors, which are typically [[Chick Tracts|barely veiled proselytizing]] or [[Twilight|just straight up terrible]], though [[Monster Hunter International|there are some good ones]].
Speaking of Cosmic horror, that can also fall under the Urban Fantasy umbrella, and it blends the "Gods Don't Exist" or "Gods are Evil" route into "The Gods are actually Incomprehensible and Destructive Aliens". This also has the side effect of making it a popular choice for atheistic tracts (even Lovecraft himself was an anti-religious materialist).

Further, note the "Religion is Bad" and "Religion is Good" brigades will be involved in arguments over the relative morality or "goodness" of various factions in the story and the accuracy of any messages a writer presents.

==Examples of /tg/ connected fictional religions==
* The [[Imperial Truth]]/[[Imperial Cult|Cult]] in [[Warhammer 40,000]] manages to mix features of atheism, Catholicism, and generic fanaticism and xenophobia. Religiosity is mostly explored with humans and no real religions are used (since the Emperor [[The Last Church|violently purged them and those who followed them]] - except for maybe [[Ollanius Pius|one Catholic Perpetual]], and this all happened before [[Chaos]] entered the picture...). As for the other major factions;
** All Greenskins worship Gork and Mork (jury's out on whether the [[Gretchin Revolutionary Committee]] do), but are too disorganized to have anything like a formal religion, though they do make effigies of Gork and Mork and call on them.
** The T'au creed "The Greater Good" is a philosophy that allows religiosity as long as it doesn't clash with the Greater Good, but if there's a clash The Greater Good is always given priority over a religion.
** The Eldar Pantheon's religious practices aren't fleshed out save for those of Cegorach and Khaine, via the Harlequins and Aspect Warriors. Apart form these two, with most of their gods out of commission, most Eldar religious worship is of a deistic bent. The new faith around Ynnead, the Ynnari, have yet to establish teachings or rituals. As for the rest of the Eldar race, the Corsairs are all over the place, the Dark Eldar are irreligious for the most part (the popular exception are the [[Incubi]] who hold [[Khaine]] in high regard) and there's rumors of Chaos Eldar.
** While the Necrontyr had religions before certain [[C'tan|star entities]] [[Necrons|roboticizied them]], those aren't fleshed out or detailed. Its also heavily implied the C'tan co-opted the Necrontyr religion beforehand, with the change to Necrons taking the higher though processes of most of them. Any Necrons with any comprehension of faith and religiosity either worship the C'tan or have become irreligious.
** Tyranids have some concept of religiosity, as seen with propagating [[Genestealer]] cults and the Deathleaper understanding the concept of martyrdom, but otherwise display no interest or regard for anything other than their all-consuming extra-galactic hunger.
* Among Dungeons and Dragons settings, [[Planescape]], [[Eberron]], and [[Pathfinder]] are notable for having some coherent things that could be called "Religions", rather then the usual generic Pantheism.
** Most of Planescape's Factions effectively count as religions, to the point they can produce [[Cleric]]s ([[Planescape: Torment#Fall-From-Grace|Atheist ones at that]]). Yes, even the Athar. (Perhaps ''especially'' the Athar.)
** Half of Eberron's religions aren't worship of deities. The [[Blood of Vol]] seeks to unlock the divinity within one's self and rejects the gods (if they even exist) and the [[Path of Inspiration]] seeks to improve their next reincarnation. The Undying Court worships not gods but their undead ancestors that make up their government. The [[Path of Light]], [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Becoming_God|Becoming God]] and [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Reforged|Reforged]] all seek to ''create'' a deity. Even some interpretations of the [[Sovereign Host]], like the one most common among dragons, don't worship them as deities. Due to the way divine casting works in Eberron, all of these can produce divine casters.
** There's a handful of religions on [[Golarion]] that aren't merely worship of pantheons. The most prominent (read: Actually has mechanical support) is the [[Prophecies of Kalistrade]], which is basically fantasy [[Star Trek|Ferengi]].
* [[D20 Modern]]'s [[Urban Arcana]], unusually for urban fantasy, has D&D deities bleed into reality alongside the monsters. You are still able to play a <s>cleric</s> "acolyte" of any real world deity despite this.
* [[Star Wars]] is inconsistent on if the [[The Force]] is a religion. The Jedi and the Sith ''could'' both be considered religions as they are considered monastic, but mix in several other traits such as being meritocratic (Jedi) and kraterocratic (Sith) and Lucas himself has axed at least one prototyped book for portraying them too much as a religion. It's also notable that the Sith were former Jedi who left the Jedi path for several reasons including [[Heresy|disagreements over the teachings of that creed]]. Aside from that, religion is nearly always a non-human tradition, something noted in a culture's historical background and never seen implying its extinction, or a scam. The religiously linked "damn" and "hell" are the two real world swear words that exist in-universe, purely because Han Solo used them in the films, and some concept of an "angel" exists because a young Anakin told Padme about them in the prequel trilogy films.
** There are rare exceptions where a religion is fleshed out and explored, and the writing goes various directions for better or worse. A notable example is the aggressive polytheistic religion of the antagonistic Yuuzhan Vong from the EU (which the story gradually revealed was long ago perverted from benevolent roots, and this perverted form takes a few cues from Islam and Aztec mythology).
* Very large books could be written about religion and [[World of Darkness]]/Chronicles of Darkness. We'll just cover a few highlights:
** From [[Vampire: The Requiem]], there's the the Lancea et Sanctum, which might be best described as "Christianity for Vampires", and the Circle of the Crone, which is "Pagan Vampires". Both have Vampire miracles on tap (pun intended).
** [[Hunter: The Vigil]] has various religious organizations among the Compacts and Conspiracies.
** [[Mage: The Ascension]] has various religious Traditions, portrayed in that highly-stereotypical and highly-depending-on-the-author way typical of old WoD.

==See also==
* [[Mythology]]

[[Category:Not related]]
[[Category:History]]

Religion

2020-03-24T16:04:46Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:187:B744:68E8:D674: /* How this impacts /tg/ */

{{topquote|Science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge, which is power; religion gives man wisdom, which is control. Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly with values. The two are not rivals.|Martin Luther King, Jr}}

:'''Dracula''': ''I was called here by, huuuuumans, who wish to pay me tribute!''
:'''Richter Belmont''': ''Tribute?! You steal men's souls! And make them your slaves!''
:'''Dracula''': ''Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.''
::--An excerpt from the infamous exchange that also gave us "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets" in [[Castlevania#Castlevania:_Symphony_Of_The_Night_.28Castlevania_9.29|Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.]]

Because it's important to several settings and RPG systems, particularly ones that are high-profile or relevant to /tg/, we have a religion article. Let's try and keep it focused on the directly-related-to-/tg/ stuff and not descend into the pure [[skub]] that can arise in discussions of real-life religions, okay?

==Definition of Religion==
Almost since the inception of the term, scholars have failed to agree on a definition of religion. While there are some belief systems that always count as religions, some have applied the term to various things such as political ideologies, or groups when they reach a certain point. There are however two general definition systems: the sociological/functional and the phenomenological/philosophical.

The two most widely accepted are:
* "a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things, that is to say things set apart and forbidden - beliefs and practices which unite into one single moral community called a church, all those who adhere to them."
* "a comprehensive worldview or 'metaphysical moral vision' that is accepted as binding because it is held to be in itself basically true and just even if all dimensions of it cannot be either fully confirmed or refuted".

As stated before, one common element that every religion which fits the criteria has is humanity's relation to supernatural forces, as all of them have at least one [[God|god]] and/or an afterlife even where there are exceptions; Buddhism doesn't have any gods but has afterlives, and Taoism doesn't have an afterlife but does have a pantheistic concept of a god as a supernatural force.

Like other terms for heavily [[SJW|debated]] [[communism|subjects]], religion and religious have also been used as insults or Snarl Words in social and political discussions (especially from the 20th century and onwards) to ridicule groups openly promoting something the user disagrees with. This snarl creates a caricature of the group to smear them by association with the worst excesses/negative stereotypes of real-world religious people (like being too preachy, judgmental, irrational, hypocritical, or pressuring everyone to convert).

==Religion vs. Mythology==
While [[Mythology|mythologies]] aren't religions in and of themselves, every religion has a mythology. While mythologies are merely the accounts of supernatural events, religions also have several criteria such as how life should be lived, what happens to a person after death and humanity's relation to the supernatural. [[Skub|Whatever the source]], the mythology almost always predates the religion. As a result, especially since the Fantasy genre deals in supernatural beings and forces, most if not all fantasy settings have religions. Science fiction does to a lesser degree, mostly because during the Golden Age of sci-fi empiricists and secular humanists were attracted to the genre and their views often seeped into their stories. Despite this, given that most real-life societies have had religions playing a role in or since their founding, religions are still found in sci-fi.

Religions involves belief systems and practices, where an adherent can call upon the power/being the religion is focused on to give them aid in [[cleric|various]] [[Paladin|ways]], depending at the very least on the religion and the task in question. Given that religions are about people's place in the world, how it was made, ideas on how life should be lived and what happens after death, they have major implications for societies. Given that people can become [[Exarch|dangerously single-minded]] about a cause, people can be become extremists about their religion, regardless of the fact that [[Heironeous|some]] are more benevolent than [[Asmodeus|others]] and in numerous cases even [[Heresy|if it involves going against the religion's teachings]]; in conjunction with the above this means religious conflicts can become widespread, long-lasting, cause carnage and also involve other elements such as politics.

==Role in Society==
A person's belief (for or against) any or all religions is a major factor in their worldview, and as such often serves as the undercurrent for all others. This is because this belief shapes people's views on the big things such as the purpose of life, how life should be lived in relation to oneself and others and what happens to people after they die. On the upside, this often leads to teachings with the goal of unity, peace, charity and co-operation as per the teachings of most religions, some of which are adapted by or also found among non-religious systems. On the downside, this can lead to clashes over how the people involved do the will of whichever beings or forces they follow, which religion should be followed or whether or not people should follow a god or religion at all. This can involve arguments and factionalizing, or in some cases worse things like pogroms and wars. Since they are an overarching and fairly common element in cultures, they often appear or are referenced in fiction.

The most common religious belief systems are the Abrahamic family of religions (primarily Judaism, Christianity and Islam) which are Monotheistic (belief in a singular God) and share many common elements and root, with - at the time this was written - Christianity being the most followed religion globally.

Within the last few centuries, particularly due to events such as the French Revolution, there has also been a significant amount of anti-religious sentiment, with those who hold this view considering religion at best redundant and at worst destructive (beyond historical grievances with specific groups within religions, reasons for this view and whether or not those arguments have any merit, shall not be discussed here). Interestingly, numerous tyrannical regimes have tried to restrict or stamp out religions, as most religions teach at least some benevolence, and tyrants don't like being answerable to anyone. Some nations have just tried to block specific religions. Several nations have tried to get rid of religion altogether, albeit with horrifying [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists results] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge_rule_of_Cambodia#Religious_communities each] time; even at best they sidegrade from one set of problems to another.

==How this impacts /tg/==
A few major ways. There are three major "modes" of /tg/ settings and related fictions:

*# The purely functional. Compared to the two types of writers found below, these writers are usually just attempting to model their work after real-world [[Mythology]] and are frequently attempting to keep their views of Religion separate from their work. Frequently comes in one of two subspecies:
*#* The [[Standard Fantasy Setting]] default: The world is ruled by an ordinary polytheistic pantheon, usually close to some admixture of Norse and Greek mythologies. Some of them also have a Top God - one more powerful than all the others and maybe the in-universe creator of everything - who is mostly hands-off in cosmic affairs. The gods of these religions tend to focus on specific areas (gods of [[Paladin|Justice]] and [[Druid|Nature]] are common, for subtly obvious reasons) and frequently want their followers to propagate or promote these things.
*# There are several writers of Science Fiction and Fantasy that are of the opinion "Religion Is Bad". This is more common in Sci-Fi than fantasy because the focus on science appeals to the naturalist, empiricist and/or humanist worldview of writers who have it, with the supernatural being seen as an obstacle to that; personal issues of the author such as grievance or prejudice can also play a role, but that's case-by-case and a major can of worms. As a result, those writers model their fictional religions on the - occasionally exaggerated - worst excesses of real world religious people and lift imagery from those religions. Popular targets are Christianity, Islam, the Aztec and Scientology (to be honest, in recent history it’s usually the first one). This comes in flavors of either "The Gods Don't Exist", "The Gods are Incompetent" (more on that below) or "The Gods are all Evil".
*# There are also quite a few sincerely religious Science Fiction and Fantasy writers (usually Christian, but not always). These authors usually put more thought into their fictional religion plus its central figure (although they have a tendency to go all "Crystal Dragon Jesus"), and try and have it be at least a somewhat good influence, although religious institutions and leaders are usually hit-and-miss affairs.

If a work has multiple writers, (as frequently happens with RPG and Wargame settings, and quite a few popular SciFi/Fantasy ones as well) there's a tendency for the writers to try and pull the setting into one of the other two "modes" depending on their views. This leads to the theme changing from one side to the other as the story progresses (such as [[World of Warcraft|the spate of retcons to the cosmology of the Warcraft universe]]), or swinging back and forth between them.

Doing the "The Gods are Incompetent" thing (the similar but different "The Gods are Insane", "The Gods Are Assholes" and "The Gods Don't Actually Do Anything" routes also falls under this umbrella) can go into any of the three; in a sincere monotheist's (such as Christian) work, it can be a "Take That" to polytheistic religions; in a "Religion is Bad" atheist's, it can be one to religion in general; in a Buddhist-influenced work, it can be a part of the whole "even the Gods are tied up in the Wheel of Karma" concept; and, even if the author is not pushing any religious message in any way, there's a neutral, plot-structural reason to go "Incompetent Gods": it can make the adventurers the Most Competent People Available.

[[Urban Fantasy]] writers are a special case, since almost all Urban Fantasy is set in something that might be called "the real world with a twist", with all the usual political trouble that implies. Usually, they take one of two routes. The first is "there are many possible explanations" and vague things up as much as possible (Faith being the power that repels [[Vampire]]s rather than than a cross having any actual connection to a deity is a popular one). The second (which is rarer outside of Cosmic Horror) is straight up [[Edgy|atheistic/"Religion is Bad"]] [[Imperial Truth|propaganda]], and in practice the writer often has an axe to grind against a specific religion (almost always the popular targets listed above). Some Urban Fantasy works with a clear correct religion exist thanks to the above mentioned sincerely religious authors, which are typically [[Chick Tracts|barely veiled proselytizing]] or [[Twilight|just straight up terrible]], though [[Monster Hunter International|there are some good ones]].
Speaking of Cosmic horror, that can also fall under the Urban Fantasy umbrella, and it blends the "Gods Don't Exist" or "Gods are Evil" route into "The Gods are actually Incomprehensible and Destructive Aliens". This also has the side effect of making it a popular choice for atheistic tracts (even Lovecraft himself was an anti-religious materialist).

Further, note the "Religion is Bad" and "Religion is Good" brigades will be involved in arguments over the relative morality or "goodness" of various factions in the story and the accuracy of any messages a writer presents.

==Examples of /tg/ connected fictional religions==
* The [[Imperial Truth]]/[[Imperial Cult|Cult]] in [[Warhammer 40,000]] manages to mix features of atheism, Catholicism, and generic fanaticism and xenophobia. Religiosity is mostly explored with humans and no real religions are used (since the Emperor [[The Last Church|violently purged them and those who followed them]] - except for maybe [[Ollanius Pius|one Catholic Perpetual]], and this all happened before [[Chaos]] entered the picture...). As for the other major factions;
** All Greenskins worship Gork and Mork (jury's out on whether the [[Gretchin Revolutionary Committee]] do), but are too disorganized to have anything like a formal religion, though they do make effigies of Gork and Mork and call on them.
** The T'au creed "The Greater Good" is a philosophy that allows religiosity as long as it doesn't clash with the Greater Good, but if there's a clash The Greater Good is always given priority over a religion.
** The Eldar Pantheon's religious practices aren't fleshed out save for those of Cegorach and Khaine, via the Harlequins and Aspect Warriors. Apart form these two, with most of their gods out of commission, most Eldar religious worship is of a deistic bent. The new faith around Ynnead, the Ynnari, have yet to establish teachings or rituals. As for the rest of the Eldar race, the Corsairs are all over the place, the Dark Eldar are irreligious for the most part (the popular exception are the [[Incubi]] who hold [[Khaine]] in high regard) and there's rumors of Chaos Eldar.
** While the Necrontyr had religions before certain [[C'tan|star entities]] [[Necrons|roboticizied them]], those aren't fleshed out or detailed. Its also heavily implied the C'tan co-opted the Necrontyr religion beforehand, with the change to Necrons taking the higher though processes of most of them. Any Necrons with any comprehension of faith and religiosity either worship the C'tan or have become irreligious.
** Tyranids have some concept of religiosity, as seen with propagating [[Genestealer]] cults and the Deathleaper understanding the concept of martyrdom, but otherwise display no interest or regard for anything other than their all-consuming extra-galactic hunger.
* Among Dungeons and Dragons settings, [[Planescape]], [[Eberron]], and [[Pathfinder]] are notable for having some coherent things that could be called "Religions", rather then the usual generic Pantheism.
** Most of Planescape's Factions effectively count as religions, to the point they can produce [[Cleric]]s ([[Planescape: Torment#Fall-From-Grace|Atheist ones at that]]). Yes, even the Athar. (Perhaps ''especially'' the Athar.)
** Half of Eberron's religions aren't worship of deities. The [[Blood of Vol]] seeks to unlock the divinity within one's self and rejects the gods (if they even exist) and the [[Path of Inspiration]] seeks to improve their next reincarnation. The Undying Court worships not gods but their undead ancestors that make up their government. The [[Path of Light]], [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Becoming_God|Becoming God]] and [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Reforged|Reforged]] all seek to ''create'' a deity. Even some interpretations of the [[Sovereign Host]], like the one most common among dragons, don't worship them as deities. Due to the way divine casting works in Eberron, all of these can produce divine casters.
** There's a handful of religions on [[Golarion]] that aren't merely worship of pantheons. The most prominent (read: Actually has mechanical support) is the [[Prophecies of Kalistrade]], which is basically fantasy [[Star Trek|Ferengi]].
* [[D20 Modern]]'s [[Urban Arcana]], unusually for urban fantasy, has D&D deities bleed into reality alongside the monsters. You are still able to play a <s>cleric</s> "acolyte" of any real world deity despite this.
* [[Star Wars]] is inconsistent on if the [[The Force]] is a religion. The Jedi and the Sith ''could'' both be considered religions as they are considered monastic, but mix in several other traits such as being meritocratic (Jedi) and kraterocratic (Sith) and Lucas himself has axed at least one prototyped book for portraying them too much as a religion. It's also notable that the Sith were former Jedi who left the Jedi path for several reasons including [[Heresy|disagreements over the teachings of that creed]]. Aside from that, religion is nearly always a non-human tradition, something noted in a culture's historical background and never seen implying its extinction, or a scam. The religiously linked "damn" and "hell" are the two real world swear words that exist in-universe, purely because Han Solo used them in the films, and some concept of an "angel" exists because a young Anakin told Padme about them in the prequel trilogy films.
** There are rare exceptions where a religion is fleshed out and explored, and the writing goes various directions for better or worse. A notable example is the aggressive polytheistic religion of the antagonistic Yuuzhan Vong from the EU (which the story gradually revealed was long ago perverted from benevolent roots, and this perverted form takes a few cues from Islam and Aztec mythology).
* Very large books could be written about religion and [[World of Darkness]]/Chronicles of Darkness. We'll just cover a few highlights:
** From [[Vampire: The Requiem]], there's the the Lancea et Sanctum, which might be best described as "Christianity for Vampires", and the Circle of the Crone, which is "Pagan Vampires". Both have Vampire miracles on tap (pun intended).
** [[Hunter: The Vigil]] has various religious organizations among the Compacts and Conspiracies.
** [[Mage: The Ascension]] has various religious Traditions, portrayed in that highly-stereotypical and highly-depending-on-the-author way typical of old WoD.

==See also==
* [[Mythology]]

[[Category:Not related]]
[[Category:History]]

Religion

2020-03-24T16:04:25Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:187:B744:68E8:D674: /* How this impacts /tg/ */

{{topquote|Science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge, which is power; religion gives man wisdom, which is control. Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly with values. The two are not rivals.|Martin Luther King, Jr}}

:'''Dracula''': ''I was called here by, huuuuumans, who wish to pay me tribute!''
:'''Richter Belmont''': ''Tribute?! You steal men's souls! And make them your slaves!''
:'''Dracula''': ''Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.''
::--An excerpt from the infamous exchange that also gave us "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets" in [[Castlevania#Castlevania:_Symphony_Of_The_Night_.28Castlevania_9.29|Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.]]

Because it's important to several settings and RPG systems, particularly ones that are high-profile or relevant to /tg/, we have a religion article. Let's try and keep it focused on the directly-related-to-/tg/ stuff and not descend into the pure [[skub]] that can arise in discussions of real-life religions, okay?

==Definition of Religion==
Almost since the inception of the term, scholars have failed to agree on a definition of religion. While there are some belief systems that always count as religions, some have applied the term to various things such as political ideologies, or groups when they reach a certain point. There are however two general definition systems: the sociological/functional and the phenomenological/philosophical.

The two most widely accepted are:
* "a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things, that is to say things set apart and forbidden - beliefs and practices which unite into one single moral community called a church, all those who adhere to them."
* "a comprehensive worldview or 'metaphysical moral vision' that is accepted as binding because it is held to be in itself basically true and just even if all dimensions of it cannot be either fully confirmed or refuted".

As stated before, one common element that every religion which fits the criteria has is humanity's relation to supernatural forces, as all of them have at least one [[God|god]] and/or an afterlife even where there are exceptions; Buddhism doesn't have any gods but has afterlives, and Taoism doesn't have an afterlife but does have a pantheistic concept of a god as a supernatural force.

Like other terms for heavily [[SJW|debated]] [[communism|subjects]], religion and religious have also been used as insults or Snarl Words in social and political discussions (especially from the 20th century and onwards) to ridicule groups openly promoting something the user disagrees with. This snarl creates a caricature of the group to smear them by association with the worst excesses/negative stereotypes of real-world religious people (like being too preachy, judgmental, irrational, hypocritical, or pressuring everyone to convert).

==Religion vs. Mythology==
While [[Mythology|mythologies]] aren't religions in and of themselves, every religion has a mythology. While mythologies are merely the accounts of supernatural events, religions also have several criteria such as how life should be lived, what happens to a person after death and humanity's relation to the supernatural. [[Skub|Whatever the source]], the mythology almost always predates the religion. As a result, especially since the Fantasy genre deals in supernatural beings and forces, most if not all fantasy settings have religions. Science fiction does to a lesser degree, mostly because during the Golden Age of sci-fi empiricists and secular humanists were attracted to the genre and their views often seeped into their stories. Despite this, given that most real-life societies have had religions playing a role in or since their founding, religions are still found in sci-fi.

Religions involves belief systems and practices, where an adherent can call upon the power/being the religion is focused on to give them aid in [[cleric|various]] [[Paladin|ways]], depending at the very least on the religion and the task in question. Given that religions are about people's place in the world, how it was made, ideas on how life should be lived and what happens after death, they have major implications for societies. Given that people can become [[Exarch|dangerously single-minded]] about a cause, people can be become extremists about their religion, regardless of the fact that [[Heironeous|some]] are more benevolent than [[Asmodeus|others]] and in numerous cases even [[Heresy|if it involves going against the religion's teachings]]; in conjunction with the above this means religious conflicts can become widespread, long-lasting, cause carnage and also involve other elements such as politics.

==Role in Society==
A person's belief (for or against) any or all religions is a major factor in their worldview, and as such often serves as the undercurrent for all others. This is because this belief shapes people's views on the big things such as the purpose of life, how life should be lived in relation to oneself and others and what happens to people after they die. On the upside, this often leads to teachings with the goal of unity, peace, charity and co-operation as per the teachings of most religions, some of which are adapted by or also found among non-religious systems. On the downside, this can lead to clashes over how the people involved do the will of whichever beings or forces they follow, which religion should be followed or whether or not people should follow a god or religion at all. This can involve arguments and factionalizing, or in some cases worse things like pogroms and wars. Since they are an overarching and fairly common element in cultures, they often appear or are referenced in fiction.

The most common religious belief systems are the Abrahamic family of religions (primarily Judaism, Christianity and Islam) which are Monotheistic (belief in a singular God) and share many common elements and root, with - at the time this was written - Christianity being the most followed religion globally.

Within the last few centuries, particularly due to events such as the French Revolution, there has also been a significant amount of anti-religious sentiment, with those who hold this view considering religion at best redundant and at worst destructive (beyond historical grievances with specific groups within religions, reasons for this view and whether or not those arguments have any merit, shall not be discussed here). Interestingly, numerous tyrannical regimes have tried to restrict or stamp out religions, as most religions teach at least some benevolence, and tyrants don't like being answerable to anyone. Some nations have just tried to block specific religions. Several nations have tried to get rid of religion altogether, albeit with horrifying [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists results] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge_rule_of_Cambodia#Religious_communities each] time; even at best they sidegrade from one set of problems to another.

==How this impacts /tg/==
A few major ways. There are three major "modes" of /tg/ settings and related fictions:

*# The purely functional. Compared to the two types of writers found below, these writers are usually just attempting to model their work after real-world [[Mythology]] and are frequently attempting to keep their views of Religion separate from their work. Frequently comes in one of two subspecies:

*#* The [[Standard Fantasy Setting]] default: The world is ruled by an ordinary polytheistic pantheon, usually close to some admixture of Norse and Greek mythologies. Some of them also have a Top God - one more powerful than all the others and maybe the in-universe creator of everything - who is mostly hands-off in cosmic affairs. The gods of these religions tend to focus on specific areas (gods of [[Paladin|Justice]] and [[Druid|Nature]] are common, for subtly obvious reasons) and frequently want their followers to propagate or promote these things.

*# There are several writers of Science Fiction and Fantasy that are of the opinion "Religion Is Bad". This is more common in Sci-Fi than fantasy because the focus on science appeals to the naturalist, empiricist and/or humanist worldview of writers who have it, with the supernatural being seen as an obstacle to that; personal issues of the author such as grievance or prejudice can also play a role, but that's case-by-case and a major can of worms. As a result, those writers model their fictional religions on the - occasionally exaggerated - worst excesses of real world religious people and lift imagery from those religions. Popular targets are Christianity, Islam, the Aztec and Scientology (to be honest, in recent history it’s usually the first one). This comes in flavors of either "The Gods Don't Exist", "The Gods are Incompetent" (more on that below) or "The Gods are all Evil".

*# There are also quite a few sincerely religious Science Fiction and Fantasy writers (usually Christian, but not always). These authors usually put more thought into their fictional religion plus its central figure (although they have a tendency to go all "Crystal Dragon Jesus"), and try and have it be at least a somewhat good influence, although religious institutions and leaders are usually hit-and-miss affairs.

If a work has multiple writers, (as frequently happens with RPG and Wargame settings, and quite a few popular SciFi/Fantasy ones as well) there's a tendency for the writers to try and pull the setting into one of the other two "modes" depending on their views. This leads to the theme changing from one side to the other as the story progresses (such as [[World of Warcraft|the spate of retcons to the cosmology of the Warcraft universe]]), or swinging back and forth between them.

Doing the "The Gods are Incompetent" thing (the similar but different "The Gods are Insane", "The Gods Are Assholes" and "The Gods Don't Actually Do Anything" routes also falls under this umbrella) can go into any of the three; in a sincere monotheist's (such as Christian) work, it can be a "Take That" to polytheistic religions; in a "Religion is Bad" atheist's, it can be one to religion in general; in a Buddhist-influenced work, it can be a part of the whole "even the Gods are tied up in the Wheel of Karma" concept; and, even if the author is not pushing any religious message in any way, there's a neutral, plot-structural reason to go "Incompetent Gods": it can make the adventurers the Most Competent People Available.

[[Urban Fantasy]] writers are a special case, since almost all Urban Fantasy is set in something that might be called "the real world with a twist", with all the usual political trouble that implies. Usually, they take one of two routes. The first is "there are many possible explanations" and vague things up as much as possible (Faith being the power that repels [[Vampire]]s rather than than a cross having any actual connection to a deity is a popular one). The second (which is rarer outside of Cosmic Horror) is straight up [[Edgy|atheistic/"Religion is Bad"]] [[Imperial Truth|propaganda]], and in practice the writer often has an axe to grind against a specific religion (almost always the popular targets listed above). Some Urban Fantasy works with a clear correct religion exist thanks to the above mentioned sincerely religious authors, which are typically [[Chick Tracts|barely veiled proselytizing]] or [[Twilight|just straight up terrible]], though [[Monster Hunter International|there are some good ones]].
Speaking of Cosmic horror, that can also fall under the Urban Fantasy umbrella, and it blends the "Gods Don't Exist" or "Gods are Evil" route into "The Gods are actually Incomprehensible and Destructive Aliens". This also has the side effect of making it a popular choice for atheistic tracts (even Lovecraft himself was an anti-religious materialist).

Further, note the "Religion is Bad" and "Religion is Good" brigades will be involved in arguments over the relative morality or "goodness" of various factions in the story and the accuracy of any messages a writer presents.

==Examples of /tg/ connected fictional religions==
* The [[Imperial Truth]]/[[Imperial Cult|Cult]] in [[Warhammer 40,000]] manages to mix features of atheism, Catholicism, and generic fanaticism and xenophobia. Religiosity is mostly explored with humans and no real religions are used (since the Emperor [[The Last Church|violently purged them and those who followed them]] - except for maybe [[Ollanius Pius|one Catholic Perpetual]], and this all happened before [[Chaos]] entered the picture...). As for the other major factions;
** All Greenskins worship Gork and Mork (jury's out on whether the [[Gretchin Revolutionary Committee]] do), but are too disorganized to have anything like a formal religion, though they do make effigies of Gork and Mork and call on them.
** The T'au creed "The Greater Good" is a philosophy that allows religiosity as long as it doesn't clash with the Greater Good, but if there's a clash The Greater Good is always given priority over a religion.
** The Eldar Pantheon's religious practices aren't fleshed out save for those of Cegorach and Khaine, via the Harlequins and Aspect Warriors. Apart form these two, with most of their gods out of commission, most Eldar religious worship is of a deistic bent. The new faith around Ynnead, the Ynnari, have yet to establish teachings or rituals. As for the rest of the Eldar race, the Corsairs are all over the place, the Dark Eldar are irreligious for the most part (the popular exception are the [[Incubi]] who hold [[Khaine]] in high regard) and there's rumors of Chaos Eldar.
** While the Necrontyr had religions before certain [[C'tan|star entities]] [[Necrons|roboticizied them]], those aren't fleshed out or detailed. Its also heavily implied the C'tan co-opted the Necrontyr religion beforehand, with the change to Necrons taking the higher though processes of most of them. Any Necrons with any comprehension of faith and religiosity either worship the C'tan or have become irreligious.
** Tyranids have some concept of religiosity, as seen with propagating [[Genestealer]] cults and the Deathleaper understanding the concept of martyrdom, but otherwise display no interest or regard for anything other than their all-consuming extra-galactic hunger.
* Among Dungeons and Dragons settings, [[Planescape]], [[Eberron]], and [[Pathfinder]] are notable for having some coherent things that could be called "Religions", rather then the usual generic Pantheism.
** Most of Planescape's Factions effectively count as religions, to the point they can produce [[Cleric]]s ([[Planescape: Torment#Fall-From-Grace|Atheist ones at that]]). Yes, even the Athar. (Perhaps ''especially'' the Athar.)
** Half of Eberron's religions aren't worship of deities. The [[Blood of Vol]] seeks to unlock the divinity within one's self and rejects the gods (if they even exist) and the [[Path of Inspiration]] seeks to improve their next reincarnation. The Undying Court worships not gods but their undead ancestors that make up their government. The [[Path of Light]], [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Becoming_God|Becoming God]] and [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Reforged|Reforged]] all seek to ''create'' a deity. Even some interpretations of the [[Sovereign Host]], like the one most common among dragons, don't worship them as deities. Due to the way divine casting works in Eberron, all of these can produce divine casters.
** There's a handful of religions on [[Golarion]] that aren't merely worship of pantheons. The most prominent (read: Actually has mechanical support) is the [[Prophecies of Kalistrade]], which is basically fantasy [[Star Trek|Ferengi]].
* [[D20 Modern]]'s [[Urban Arcana]], unusually for urban fantasy, has D&D deities bleed into reality alongside the monsters. You are still able to play a <s>cleric</s> "acolyte" of any real world deity despite this.
* [[Star Wars]] is inconsistent on if the [[The Force]] is a religion. The Jedi and the Sith ''could'' both be considered religions as they are considered monastic, but mix in several other traits such as being meritocratic (Jedi) and kraterocratic (Sith) and Lucas himself has axed at least one prototyped book for portraying them too much as a religion. It's also notable that the Sith were former Jedi who left the Jedi path for several reasons including [[Heresy|disagreements over the teachings of that creed]]. Aside from that, religion is nearly always a non-human tradition, something noted in a culture's historical background and never seen implying its extinction, or a scam. The religiously linked "damn" and "hell" are the two real world swear words that exist in-universe, purely because Han Solo used them in the films, and some concept of an "angel" exists because a young Anakin told Padme about them in the prequel trilogy films.
** There are rare exceptions where a religion is fleshed out and explored, and the writing goes various directions for better or worse. A notable example is the aggressive polytheistic religion of the antagonistic Yuuzhan Vong from the EU (which the story gradually revealed was long ago perverted from benevolent roots, and this perverted form takes a few cues from Islam and Aztec mythology).
* Very large books could be written about religion and [[World of Darkness]]/Chronicles of Darkness. We'll just cover a few highlights:
** From [[Vampire: The Requiem]], there's the the Lancea et Sanctum, which might be best described as "Christianity for Vampires", and the Circle of the Crone, which is "Pagan Vampires". Both have Vampire miracles on tap (pun intended).
** [[Hunter: The Vigil]] has various religious organizations among the Compacts and Conspiracies.
** [[Mage: The Ascension]] has various religious Traditions, portrayed in that highly-stereotypical and highly-depending-on-the-author way typical of old WoD.

==See also==
* [[Mythology]]

[[Category:Not related]]
[[Category:History]]

Religion

2020-03-24T16:01:06Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:187:B744:68E8:D674: /* How this impacts /tg/ */

{{topquote|Science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge, which is power; religion gives man wisdom, which is control. Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly with values. The two are not rivals.|Martin Luther King, Jr}}

:'''Dracula''': ''I was called here by, huuuuumans, who wish to pay me tribute!''
:'''Richter Belmont''': ''Tribute?! You steal men's souls! And make them your slaves!''
:'''Dracula''': ''Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.''
::--An excerpt from the infamous exchange that also gave us "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets" in [[Castlevania#Castlevania:_Symphony_Of_The_Night_.28Castlevania_9.29|Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.]]

Because it's important to several settings and RPG systems, particularly ones that are high-profile or relevant to /tg/, we have a religion article. Let's try and keep it focused on the directly-related-to-/tg/ stuff and not descend into the pure [[skub]] that can arise in discussions of real-life religions, okay?

==Definition of Religion==
Almost since the inception of the term, scholars have failed to agree on a definition of religion. While there are some belief systems that always count as religions, some have applied the term to various things such as political ideologies, or groups when they reach a certain point. There are however two general definition systems: the sociological/functional and the phenomenological/philosophical.

The two most widely accepted are:
* "a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things, that is to say things set apart and forbidden - beliefs and practices which unite into one single moral community called a church, all those who adhere to them."
* "a comprehensive worldview or 'metaphysical moral vision' that is accepted as binding because it is held to be in itself basically true and just even if all dimensions of it cannot be either fully confirmed or refuted".

As stated before, one common element that every religion which fits the criteria has is humanity's relation to supernatural forces, as all of them have at least one [[God|god]] and/or an afterlife even where there are exceptions; Buddhism doesn't have any gods but has afterlives, and Taoism doesn't have an afterlife but does have a pantheistic concept of a god as a supernatural force.

Like other terms for heavily [[SJW|debated]] [[communism|subjects]], religion and religious have also been used as insults or Snarl Words in social and political discussions (especially from the 20th century and onwards) to ridicule groups openly promoting something the user disagrees with. This snarl creates a caricature of the group to smear them by association with the worst excesses/negative stereotypes of real-world religious people (like being too preachy, judgmental, irrational, hypocritical, or pressuring everyone to convert).

==Religion vs. Mythology==
While [[Mythology|mythologies]] aren't religions in and of themselves, every religion has a mythology. While mythologies are merely the accounts of supernatural events, religions also have several criteria such as how life should be lived, what happens to a person after death and humanity's relation to the supernatural. [[Skub|Whatever the source]], the mythology almost always predates the religion. As a result, especially since the Fantasy genre deals in supernatural beings and forces, most if not all fantasy settings have religions. Science fiction does to a lesser degree, mostly because during the Golden Age of sci-fi empiricists and secular humanists were attracted to the genre and their views often seeped into their stories. Despite this, given that most real-life societies have had religions playing a role in or since their founding, religions are still found in sci-fi.

Religions involves belief systems and practices, where an adherent can call upon the power/being the religion is focused on to give them aid in [[cleric|various]] [[Paladin|ways]], depending at the very least on the religion and the task in question. Given that religions are about people's place in the world, how it was made, ideas on how life should be lived and what happens after death, they have major implications for societies. Given that people can become [[Exarch|dangerously single-minded]] about a cause, people can be become extremists about their religion, regardless of the fact that [[Heironeous|some]] are more benevolent than [[Asmodeus|others]] and in numerous cases even [[Heresy|if it involves going against the religion's teachings]]; in conjunction with the above this means religious conflicts can become widespread, long-lasting, cause carnage and also involve other elements such as politics.

==Role in Society==
A person's belief (for or against) any or all religions is a major factor in their worldview, and as such often serves as the undercurrent for all others. This is because this belief shapes people's views on the big things such as the purpose of life, how life should be lived in relation to oneself and others and what happens to people after they die. On the upside, this often leads to teachings with the goal of unity, peace, charity and co-operation as per the teachings of most religions, some of which are adapted by or also found among non-religious systems. On the downside, this can lead to clashes over how the people involved do the will of whichever beings or forces they follow, which religion should be followed or whether or not people should follow a god or religion at all. This can involve arguments and factionalizing, or in some cases worse things like pogroms and wars. Since they are an overarching and fairly common element in cultures, they often appear or are referenced in fiction.

The most common religious belief systems are the Abrahamic family of religions (primarily Judaism, Christianity and Islam) which are Monotheistic (belief in a singular God) and share many common elements and root, with - at the time this was written - Christianity being the most followed religion globally.

Within the last few centuries, particularly due to events such as the French Revolution, there has also been a significant amount of anti-religious sentiment, with those who hold this view considering religion at best redundant and at worst destructive (beyond historical grievances with specific groups within religions, reasons for this view and whether or not those arguments have any merit, shall not be discussed here). Interestingly, numerous tyrannical regimes have tried to restrict or stamp out religions, as most religions teach at least some benevolence, and tyrants don't like being answerable to anyone. Some nations have just tried to block specific religions. Several nations have tried to get rid of religion altogether, albeit with horrifying [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists results] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge_rule_of_Cambodia#Religious_communities each] time; even at best they sidegrade from one set of problems to another.

==How this impacts /tg/==
A few major ways. There are three major "modes" of /tg/ settings and related fictions:

# The purely functional. Compared to the two types of writers found below, these writers are usually just attempting to model their work after real-world [[Mythology]] and are frequently attempting to keep their views of Religion separate from their work. Frequently comes in one of two subspecies:
* The [[Standard Fantasy Setting]] default: The world is ruled by an ordinary polytheistic pantheon, usually close to some admixture of Norse and Greek mythologies. Some of them also have a Top God - one more powerful than all the others and maybe the in-universe creator of everything - who is mostly hands-off in cosmic affairs. The gods of these religions tend to focus on specific areas (gods of [[Paladin|Justice]] and [[Druid|Nature]] are common, for subtly obvious reasons) and frequently want their followers to propagate or promote these things.
* The kind of setting they wanted to make dictated the nature of the divine. For example, in [[Exalted]] just about all the figures anybody would call a "God" (besides the Exalted) are Useless, because the Exalted (which includes the Player Characters) are supposed to be the Most Important People in the world, to go with the main theme of the setting for the PCs: "You can do '''almost anything''', except ''avoid the consequences of being the one who did that anything''".
# There are several writers of Science Fiction and Fantasy that are of the opinion "Religion Is Bad". This is more common in Sci-Fi than fantasy because the focus on science appeals to the naturalist, empiricist and/or humanist worldview of writers who have it, with the supernatural being seen as an obstacle to that; personal issues of the author such as grievance or prejudice can also play a role, but that's case-by-case and a major can of worms. As a result those writers model their fictional religions on the - occasionally exaggerated - worst excesses of real world religious people and lift imagery from those religions; popular targets are Christianity, Islam, the Aztec and - in recent history - Scientology. This comes in flavors of either "The Gods Don't Exist", "The Gods are Incompetent" (more on that below) or "The Gods are all Evil".
# There are also quite a few sincerely religious Science Fiction and Fantasy writers (usually Christian, but not always). These authors usually put more thought into their fictional religion plus its central figure (although they have a tendency to go all "Crystal Dragon Jesus"), and try and have it be at least a somewhat good influence, although religious institutions and leaders are usually hit-and-miss affairs.

If a work has multiple writers, (as frequently happens with RPG and Wargame settings, and quite a few popular SciFi/Fantasy ones as well) there's a tendency for the writers to try and pull the setting into one of the other two "modes" depending on their views. This leads to the theme changing from one side to the other as the story progresses (such as [[World of Warcraft|the spate of retcons to the cosmology of the Warcraft universe]]), or swinging back and forth between them.

Doing the "The Gods are Incompetent" thing (the similar but different "The Gods are Insane", "The Gods Are Assholes" and "The Gods Don't Actually Do Anything" routes also falls under this umbrella) can go into any of the three; in a sincere monotheist's (such as Christian) work, it can be a "Take That" to polytheistic religions; in a "Religion is Bad" atheist's, it can be one to religion in general; in a Buddhist-influenced work, it can be a part of the whole "even the Gods are tied up in the Wheel of Karma" concept; and, even if the author is not pushing any religious message in any way, there's a neutral, plot-structural reason to go "Incompetent Gods": it can make the adventurers the Most Competent People Available.

[[Urban Fantasy]] writers are a special case, since almost all Urban Fantasy is set in something that might be called "the real world with a twist", with all the usual political trouble that implies. Usually, they take one of two routes. The first is "there are many possible explanations" and vague things up as much as possible (Faith being the power that repels [[Vampire]]s rather than than a cross having any actual connection to a deity is a popular one). The second (which is rarer outside of Cosmic Horror) is straight up [[Edgy|atheistic/"Religion is Bad"]] [[Imperial Truth|propaganda]], and in practice the writer often has an axe to grind against a specific religion (almost always the popular targets listed above). Some Urban Fantasy works with a clear correct religion exist thanks to the above mentioned sincerely religious authors, which are typically [[Chick Tracts|barely veiled proselytizing]] or [[Twilight|just straight up terrible]], though [[Monster Hunter International|there are some good ones]].
Speaking of Cosmic horror, that can also fall under the Urban Fantasy umbrella, and it blends the "Gods Don't Exist" or "Gods are Evil" route into "The Gods are actually Incomprehensible and Destructive Aliens". This also has the side effect of making it a popular choice for atheistic tracts (even Lovecraft himself was an anti-religious materialist).

Further, note the "Religion is Bad" and "Religion is Good" brigades will be involved in arguments over the relative morality or "goodness" of various factions in the story and the accuracy of any messages a writer presents.

==Examples of /tg/ connected fictional religions==
* The [[Imperial Truth]]/[[Imperial Cult|Cult]] in [[Warhammer 40,000]] manages to mix features of atheism, Catholicism, and generic fanaticism and xenophobia. Religiosity is mostly explored with humans and no real religions are used (since the Emperor [[The Last Church|violently purged them and those who followed them]] - except for maybe [[Ollanius Pius|one Catholic Perpetual]], and this all happened before [[Chaos]] entered the picture...). As for the other major factions;
** All Greenskins worship Gork and Mork (jury's out on whether the [[Gretchin Revolutionary Committee]] do), but are too disorganized to have anything like a formal religion, though they do make effigies of Gork and Mork and call on them.
** The T'au creed "The Greater Good" is a philosophy that allows religiosity as long as it doesn't clash with the Greater Good, but if there's a clash The Greater Good is always given priority over a religion.
** The Eldar Pantheon's religious practices aren't fleshed out save for those of Cegorach and Khaine, via the Harlequins and Aspect Warriors. Apart form these two, with most of their gods out of commission, most Eldar religious worship is of a deistic bent. The new faith around Ynnead, the Ynnari, have yet to establish teachings or rituals. As for the rest of the Eldar race, the Corsairs are all over the place, the Dark Eldar are irreligious for the most part (the popular exception are the [[Incubi]] who hold [[Khaine]] in high regard) and there's rumors of Chaos Eldar.
** While the Necrontyr had religions before certain [[C'tan|star entities]] [[Necrons|roboticizied them]], those aren't fleshed out or detailed. Its also heavily implied the C'tan co-opted the Necrontyr religion beforehand, with the change to Necrons taking the higher though processes of most of them. Any Necrons with any comprehension of faith and religiosity either worship the C'tan or have become irreligious.
** Tyranids have some concept of religiosity, as seen with propagating [[Genestealer]] cults and the Deathleaper understanding the concept of martyrdom, but otherwise display no interest or regard for anything other than their all-consuming extra-galactic hunger.
* Among Dungeons and Dragons settings, [[Planescape]], [[Eberron]], and [[Pathfinder]] are notable for having some coherent things that could be called "Religions", rather then the usual generic Pantheism.
** Most of Planescape's Factions effectively count as religions, to the point they can produce [[Cleric]]s ([[Planescape: Torment#Fall-From-Grace|Atheist ones at that]]). Yes, even the Athar. (Perhaps ''especially'' the Athar.)
** Half of Eberron's religions aren't worship of deities. The [[Blood of Vol]] seeks to unlock the divinity within one's self and rejects the gods (if they even exist) and the [[Path of Inspiration]] seeks to improve their next reincarnation. The Undying Court worships not gods but their undead ancestors that make up their government. The [[Path of Light]], [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Becoming_God|Becoming God]] and [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Reforged|Reforged]] all seek to ''create'' a deity. Even some interpretations of the [[Sovereign Host]], like the one most common among dragons, don't worship them as deities. Due to the way divine casting works in Eberron, all of these can produce divine casters.
** There's a handful of religions on [[Golarion]] that aren't merely worship of pantheons. The most prominent (read: Actually has mechanical support) is the [[Prophecies of Kalistrade]], which is basically fantasy [[Star Trek|Ferengi]].
* [[D20 Modern]]'s [[Urban Arcana]], unusually for urban fantasy, has D&D deities bleed into reality alongside the monsters. You are still able to play a <s>cleric</s> "acolyte" of any real world deity despite this.
* [[Star Wars]] is inconsistent on if the [[The Force]] is a religion. The Jedi and the Sith ''could'' both be considered religions as they are considered monastic, but mix in several other traits such as being meritocratic (Jedi) and kraterocratic (Sith) and Lucas himself has axed at least one prototyped book for portraying them too much as a religion. It's also notable that the Sith were former Jedi who left the Jedi path for several reasons including [[Heresy|disagreements over the teachings of that creed]]. Aside from that, religion is nearly always a non-human tradition, something noted in a culture's historical background and never seen implying its extinction, or a scam. The religiously linked "damn" and "hell" are the two real world swear words that exist in-universe, purely because Han Solo used them in the films, and some concept of an "angel" exists because a young Anakin told Padme about them in the prequel trilogy films.
** There are rare exceptions where a religion is fleshed out and explored, and the writing goes various directions for better or worse. A notable example is the aggressive polytheistic religion of the antagonistic Yuuzhan Vong from the EU (which the story gradually revealed was long ago perverted from benevolent roots, and this perverted form takes a few cues from Islam and Aztec mythology).
* Very large books could be written about religion and [[World of Darkness]]/Chronicles of Darkness. We'll just cover a few highlights:
** From [[Vampire: The Requiem]], there's the the Lancea et Sanctum, which might be best described as "Christianity for Vampires", and the Circle of the Crone, which is "Pagan Vampires". Both have Vampire miracles on tap (pun intended).
** [[Hunter: The Vigil]] has various religious organizations among the Compacts and Conspiracies.
** [[Mage: The Ascension]] has various religious Traditions, portrayed in that highly-stereotypical and highly-depending-on-the-author way typical of old WoD.

==See also==
* [[Mythology]]

[[Category:Not related]]
[[Category:History]]

Religion

2020-03-24T16:00:41Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:187:B744:68E8:D674: /* How this impacts /tg/ */

{{topquote|Science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge, which is power; religion gives man wisdom, which is control. Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly with values. The two are not rivals.|Martin Luther King, Jr}}

:'''Dracula''': ''I was called here by, huuuuumans, who wish to pay me tribute!''
:'''Richter Belmont''': ''Tribute?! You steal men's souls! And make them your slaves!''
:'''Dracula''': ''Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.''
::--An excerpt from the infamous exchange that also gave us "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets" in [[Castlevania#Castlevania:_Symphony_Of_The_Night_.28Castlevania_9.29|Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.]]

Because it's important to several settings and RPG systems, particularly ones that are high-profile or relevant to /tg/, we have a religion article. Let's try and keep it focused on the directly-related-to-/tg/ stuff and not descend into the pure [[skub]] that can arise in discussions of real-life religions, okay?

==Definition of Religion==
Almost since the inception of the term, scholars have failed to agree on a definition of religion. While there are some belief systems that always count as religions, some have applied the term to various things such as political ideologies, or groups when they reach a certain point. There are however two general definition systems: the sociological/functional and the phenomenological/philosophical.

The two most widely accepted are:
* "a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things, that is to say things set apart and forbidden - beliefs and practices which unite into one single moral community called a church, all those who adhere to them."
* "a comprehensive worldview or 'metaphysical moral vision' that is accepted as binding because it is held to be in itself basically true and just even if all dimensions of it cannot be either fully confirmed or refuted".

As stated before, one common element that every religion which fits the criteria has is humanity's relation to supernatural forces, as all of them have at least one [[God|god]] and/or an afterlife even where there are exceptions; Buddhism doesn't have any gods but has afterlives, and Taoism doesn't have an afterlife but does have a pantheistic concept of a god as a supernatural force.

Like other terms for heavily [[SJW|debated]] [[communism|subjects]], religion and religious have also been used as insults or Snarl Words in social and political discussions (especially from the 20th century and onwards) to ridicule groups openly promoting something the user disagrees with. This snarl creates a caricature of the group to smear them by association with the worst excesses/negative stereotypes of real-world religious people (like being too preachy, judgmental, irrational, hypocritical, or pressuring everyone to convert).

==Religion vs. Mythology==
While [[Mythology|mythologies]] aren't religions in and of themselves, every religion has a mythology. While mythologies are merely the accounts of supernatural events, religions also have several criteria such as how life should be lived, what happens to a person after death and humanity's relation to the supernatural. [[Skub|Whatever the source]], the mythology almost always predates the religion. As a result, especially since the Fantasy genre deals in supernatural beings and forces, most if not all fantasy settings have religions. Science fiction does to a lesser degree, mostly because during the Golden Age of sci-fi empiricists and secular humanists were attracted to the genre and their views often seeped into their stories. Despite this, given that most real-life societies have had religions playing a role in or since their founding, religions are still found in sci-fi.

Religions involves belief systems and practices, where an adherent can call upon the power/being the religion is focused on to give them aid in [[cleric|various]] [[Paladin|ways]], depending at the very least on the religion and the task in question. Given that religions are about people's place in the world, how it was made, ideas on how life should be lived and what happens after death, they have major implications for societies. Given that people can become [[Exarch|dangerously single-minded]] about a cause, people can be become extremists about their religion, regardless of the fact that [[Heironeous|some]] are more benevolent than [[Asmodeus|others]] and in numerous cases even [[Heresy|if it involves going against the religion's teachings]]; in conjunction with the above this means religious conflicts can become widespread, long-lasting, cause carnage and also involve other elements such as politics.

==Role in Society==
A person's belief (for or against) any or all religions is a major factor in their worldview, and as such often serves as the undercurrent for all others. This is because this belief shapes people's views on the big things such as the purpose of life, how life should be lived in relation to oneself and others and what happens to people after they die. On the upside, this often leads to teachings with the goal of unity, peace, charity and co-operation as per the teachings of most religions, some of which are adapted by or also found among non-religious systems. On the downside, this can lead to clashes over how the people involved do the will of whichever beings or forces they follow, which religion should be followed or whether or not people should follow a god or religion at all. This can involve arguments and factionalizing, or in some cases worse things like pogroms and wars. Since they are an overarching and fairly common element in cultures, they often appear or are referenced in fiction.

The most common religious belief systems are the Abrahamic family of religions (primarily Judaism, Christianity and Islam) which are Monotheistic (belief in a singular God) and share many common elements and root, with - at the time this was written - Christianity being the most followed religion globally.

Within the last few centuries, particularly due to events such as the French Revolution, there has also been a significant amount of anti-religious sentiment, with those who hold this view considering religion at best redundant and at worst destructive (beyond historical grievances with specific groups within religions, reasons for this view and whether or not those arguments have any merit, shall not be discussed here). Interestingly, numerous tyrannical regimes have tried to restrict or stamp out religions, as most religions teach at least some benevolence, and tyrants don't like being answerable to anyone. Some nations have just tried to block specific religions. Several nations have tried to get rid of religion altogether, albeit with horrifying [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists results] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge_rule_of_Cambodia#Religious_communities each] time; even at best they sidegrade from one set of problems to another.

==How this impacts /tg/==
A few major ways. There are three major "modes" of /tg/ settings and related fictions:

# The purely functional. Compared to the two types of writers found below, these writers are usually just attempting to model their work after real-world [[Mythology]] and are frequently attempting to keep their views of Religion separate from their work. Frequently comes in one of two subspecies:
* The [[Standard Fantasy Setting]] default: The world is ruled by an ordinary polytheistic pantheon, usually close to some admixture of Norse and Greek mythologies. Some of them also have a Top God - one more powerful than all the others and maybe the in-universe creator of everything - who is mostly hands-off in cosmic affairs. The gods of these religions tend to focus on specific areas (gods of [[Paladin|Justice]] and [[Druid|Nature]] are common, for subtly obvious reasons) and frequently want their followers to propagate or promote these things.
* The kind of setting they wanted to make dictated the nature of the divine. For example, in [[Exalted]] just about all the figures anybody would call a "God" (besides the Exalted) are Useless, because the Exalted (which includes the Player Characters) are supposed to be the Most Important People in the world, to go with the main theme of the setting for the PCs: "You can do '''almost anything''', except ''avoid the consequences of being the one who did that anything''".
# There are several writers of Science Fiction and Fantasy that are of the opinion "Religion Is Bad". This is more common in Sci-Fi than fantasy because the focus on science appeals to the naturalist, empiricist and/or humanist worldview of writers who have it, with the supernatural being seen as an obstacle to that; personal issues of the author such as grievance or prejudice can also play a role, but that's case-by-case and a major can of worms. As a result those writers model their fictional religions on the - occasionally exaggerated - worst excesses of real world religious people and lift imagery from those religions; popular targets are Christianity, Islam, the Aztec and - in recent history - Scientology. This comes in flavors of either "The Gods Don't Exist", "The Gods are Incompetent" (more on that below) or "The Gods are all Evil". # There are also quite a few sincerely religious Science Fiction and Fantasy writers (usually Christian, but not always). These authors usually put more thought into their fictional religion plus its central figure (although they have a tendency to go all "Crystal Dragon Jesus"), and try and have it be at least a somewhat good influence, although religious institutions and leaders are usually hit-and-miss affairs.

If a work has multiple writers, (as frequently happens with RPG and Wargame settings, and quite a few popular SciFi/Fantasy ones as well) there's a tendency for the writers to try and pull the setting into one of the other two "modes" depending on their views. This leads to the theme changing from one side to the other as the story progresses (such as [[World of Warcraft|the spate of retcons to the cosmology of the Warcraft universe]]), or swinging back and forth between them.

Doing the "The Gods are Incompetent" thing (the similar but different "The Gods are Insane", "The Gods Are Assholes" and "The Gods Don't Actually Do Anything" routes also falls under this umbrella) can go into any of the three; in a sincere monotheist's (such as Christian) work, it can be a "Take That" to polytheistic religions; in a "Religion is Bad" atheist's, it can be one to religion in general; in a Buddhist-influenced work, it can be a part of the whole "even the Gods are tied up in the Wheel of Karma" concept; and, even if the author is not pushing any religious message in any way, there's a neutral, plot-structural reason to go "Incompetent Gods": it can make the adventurers the Most Competent People Available.

[[Urban Fantasy]] writers are a special case, since almost all Urban Fantasy is set in something that might be called "the real world with a twist", with all the usual political trouble that implies. Usually, they take one of two routes. The first is "there are many possible explanations" and vague things up as much as possible (Faith being the power that repels [[Vampire]]s rather than than a cross having any actual connection to a deity is a popular one). The second (which is rarer outside of Cosmic Horror) is straight up [[Edgy|atheistic/"Religion is Bad"]] [[Imperial Truth|propaganda]], and in practice the writer often has an axe to grind against a specific religion (almost always the popular targets listed above). Some Urban Fantasy works with a clear correct religion exist thanks to the above mentioned sincerely religious authors, which are typically [[Chick Tracts|barely veiled proselytizing]] or [[Twilight|just straight up terrible]], though [[Monster Hunter International|there are some good ones]].
Speaking of Cosmic horror, that can also fall under the Urban Fantasy umbrella, and it blends the "Gods Don't Exist" or "Gods are Evil" route into "The Gods are actually Incomprehensible and Destructive Aliens". This also has the side effect of making it a popular choice for atheistic tracts (even Lovecraft himself was an anti-religious materialist).

Further, note the "Religion is Bad" and "Religion is Good" brigades will be involved in arguments over the relative morality or "goodness" of various factions in the story and the accuracy of any messages a writer presents.

==Examples of /tg/ connected fictional religions==
* The [[Imperial Truth]]/[[Imperial Cult|Cult]] in [[Warhammer 40,000]] manages to mix features of atheism, Catholicism, and generic fanaticism and xenophobia. Religiosity is mostly explored with humans and no real religions are used (since the Emperor [[The Last Church|violently purged them and those who followed them]] - except for maybe [[Ollanius Pius|one Catholic Perpetual]], and this all happened before [[Chaos]] entered the picture...). As for the other major factions;
** All Greenskins worship Gork and Mork (jury's out on whether the [[Gretchin Revolutionary Committee]] do), but are too disorganized to have anything like a formal religion, though they do make effigies of Gork and Mork and call on them.
** The T'au creed "The Greater Good" is a philosophy that allows religiosity as long as it doesn't clash with the Greater Good, but if there's a clash The Greater Good is always given priority over a religion.
** The Eldar Pantheon's religious practices aren't fleshed out save for those of Cegorach and Khaine, via the Harlequins and Aspect Warriors. Apart form these two, with most of their gods out of commission, most Eldar religious worship is of a deistic bent. The new faith around Ynnead, the Ynnari, have yet to establish teachings or rituals. As for the rest of the Eldar race, the Corsairs are all over the place, the Dark Eldar are irreligious for the most part (the popular exception are the [[Incubi]] who hold [[Khaine]] in high regard) and there's rumors of Chaos Eldar.
** While the Necrontyr had religions before certain [[C'tan|star entities]] [[Necrons|roboticizied them]], those aren't fleshed out or detailed. Its also heavily implied the C'tan co-opted the Necrontyr religion beforehand, with the change to Necrons taking the higher though processes of most of them. Any Necrons with any comprehension of faith and religiosity either worship the C'tan or have become irreligious.
** Tyranids have some concept of religiosity, as seen with propagating [[Genestealer]] cults and the Deathleaper understanding the concept of martyrdom, but otherwise display no interest or regard for anything other than their all-consuming extra-galactic hunger.
* Among Dungeons and Dragons settings, [[Planescape]], [[Eberron]], and [[Pathfinder]] are notable for having some coherent things that could be called "Religions", rather then the usual generic Pantheism.
** Most of Planescape's Factions effectively count as religions, to the point they can produce [[Cleric]]s ([[Planescape: Torment#Fall-From-Grace|Atheist ones at that]]). Yes, even the Athar. (Perhaps ''especially'' the Athar.)
** Half of Eberron's religions aren't worship of deities. The [[Blood of Vol]] seeks to unlock the divinity within one's self and rejects the gods (if they even exist) and the [[Path of Inspiration]] seeks to improve their next reincarnation. The Undying Court worships not gods but their undead ancestors that make up their government. The [[Path of Light]], [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Becoming_God|Becoming God]] and [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Reforged|Reforged]] all seek to ''create'' a deity. Even some interpretations of the [[Sovereign Host]], like the one most common among dragons, don't worship them as deities. Due to the way divine casting works in Eberron, all of these can produce divine casters.
** There's a handful of religions on [[Golarion]] that aren't merely worship of pantheons. The most prominent (read: Actually has mechanical support) is the [[Prophecies of Kalistrade]], which is basically fantasy [[Star Trek|Ferengi]].
* [[D20 Modern]]'s [[Urban Arcana]], unusually for urban fantasy, has D&D deities bleed into reality alongside the monsters. You are still able to play a <s>cleric</s> "acolyte" of any real world deity despite this.
* [[Star Wars]] is inconsistent on if the [[The Force]] is a religion. The Jedi and the Sith ''could'' both be considered religions as they are considered monastic, but mix in several other traits such as being meritocratic (Jedi) and kraterocratic (Sith) and Lucas himself has axed at least one prototyped book for portraying them too much as a religion. It's also notable that the Sith were former Jedi who left the Jedi path for several reasons including [[Heresy|disagreements over the teachings of that creed]]. Aside from that, religion is nearly always a non-human tradition, something noted in a culture's historical background and never seen implying its extinction, or a scam. The religiously linked "damn" and "hell" are the two real world swear words that exist in-universe, purely because Han Solo used them in the films, and some concept of an "angel" exists because a young Anakin told Padme about them in the prequel trilogy films.
** There are rare exceptions where a religion is fleshed out and explored, and the writing goes various directions for better or worse. A notable example is the aggressive polytheistic religion of the antagonistic Yuuzhan Vong from the EU (which the story gradually revealed was long ago perverted from benevolent roots, and this perverted form takes a few cues from Islam and Aztec mythology).
* Very large books could be written about religion and [[World of Darkness]]/Chronicles of Darkness. We'll just cover a few highlights:
** From [[Vampire: The Requiem]], there's the the Lancea et Sanctum, which might be best described as "Christianity for Vampires", and the Circle of the Crone, which is "Pagan Vampires". Both have Vampire miracles on tap (pun intended).
** [[Hunter: The Vigil]] has various religious organizations among the Compacts and Conspiracies.
** [[Mage: The Ascension]] has various religious Traditions, portrayed in that highly-stereotypical and highly-depending-on-the-author way typical of old WoD.

==See also==
* [[Mythology]]

[[Category:Not related]]
[[Category:History]]

Religion

2020-03-24T16:00:20Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:187:B744:68E8:D674: /* How this impacts /tg/ */

{{topquote|Science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge, which is power; religion gives man wisdom, which is control. Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly with values. The two are not rivals.|Martin Luther King, Jr}}

:'''Dracula''': ''I was called here by, huuuuumans, who wish to pay me tribute!''
:'''Richter Belmont''': ''Tribute?! You steal men's souls! And make them your slaves!''
:'''Dracula''': ''Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.''
::--An excerpt from the infamous exchange that also gave us "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets" in [[Castlevania#Castlevania:_Symphony_Of_The_Night_.28Castlevania_9.29|Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.]]

Because it's important to several settings and RPG systems, particularly ones that are high-profile or relevant to /tg/, we have a religion article. Let's try and keep it focused on the directly-related-to-/tg/ stuff and not descend into the pure [[skub]] that can arise in discussions of real-life religions, okay?

==Definition of Religion==
Almost since the inception of the term, scholars have failed to agree on a definition of religion. While there are some belief systems that always count as religions, some have applied the term to various things such as political ideologies, or groups when they reach a certain point. There are however two general definition systems: the sociological/functional and the phenomenological/philosophical.

The two most widely accepted are:
* "a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things, that is to say things set apart and forbidden - beliefs and practices which unite into one single moral community called a church, all those who adhere to them."
* "a comprehensive worldview or 'metaphysical moral vision' that is accepted as binding because it is held to be in itself basically true and just even if all dimensions of it cannot be either fully confirmed or refuted".

As stated before, one common element that every religion which fits the criteria has is humanity's relation to supernatural forces, as all of them have at least one [[God|god]] and/or an afterlife even where there are exceptions; Buddhism doesn't have any gods but has afterlives, and Taoism doesn't have an afterlife but does have a pantheistic concept of a god as a supernatural force.

Like other terms for heavily [[SJW|debated]] [[communism|subjects]], religion and religious have also been used as insults or Snarl Words in social and political discussions (especially from the 20th century and onwards) to ridicule groups openly promoting something the user disagrees with. This snarl creates a caricature of the group to smear them by association with the worst excesses/negative stereotypes of real-world religious people (like being too preachy, judgmental, irrational, hypocritical, or pressuring everyone to convert).

==Religion vs. Mythology==
While [[Mythology|mythologies]] aren't religions in and of themselves, every religion has a mythology. While mythologies are merely the accounts of supernatural events, religions also have several criteria such as how life should be lived, what happens to a person after death and humanity's relation to the supernatural. [[Skub|Whatever the source]], the mythology almost always predates the religion. As a result, especially since the Fantasy genre deals in supernatural beings and forces, most if not all fantasy settings have religions. Science fiction does to a lesser degree, mostly because during the Golden Age of sci-fi empiricists and secular humanists were attracted to the genre and their views often seeped into their stories. Despite this, given that most real-life societies have had religions playing a role in or since their founding, religions are still found in sci-fi.

Religions involves belief systems and practices, where an adherent can call upon the power/being the religion is focused on to give them aid in [[cleric|various]] [[Paladin|ways]], depending at the very least on the religion and the task in question. Given that religions are about people's place in the world, how it was made, ideas on how life should be lived and what happens after death, they have major implications for societies. Given that people can become [[Exarch|dangerously single-minded]] about a cause, people can be become extremists about their religion, regardless of the fact that [[Heironeous|some]] are more benevolent than [[Asmodeus|others]] and in numerous cases even [[Heresy|if it involves going against the religion's teachings]]; in conjunction with the above this means religious conflicts can become widespread, long-lasting, cause carnage and also involve other elements such as politics.

==Role in Society==
A person's belief (for or against) any or all religions is a major factor in their worldview, and as such often serves as the undercurrent for all others. This is because this belief shapes people's views on the big things such as the purpose of life, how life should be lived in relation to oneself and others and what happens to people after they die. On the upside, this often leads to teachings with the goal of unity, peace, charity and co-operation as per the teachings of most religions, some of which are adapted by or also found among non-religious systems. On the downside, this can lead to clashes over how the people involved do the will of whichever beings or forces they follow, which religion should be followed or whether or not people should follow a god or religion at all. This can involve arguments and factionalizing, or in some cases worse things like pogroms and wars. Since they are an overarching and fairly common element in cultures, they often appear or are referenced in fiction.

The most common religious belief systems are the Abrahamic family of religions (primarily Judaism, Christianity and Islam) which are Monotheistic (belief in a singular God) and share many common elements and root, with - at the time this was written - Christianity being the most followed religion globally.

Within the last few centuries, particularly due to events such as the French Revolution, there has also been a significant amount of anti-religious sentiment, with those who hold this view considering religion at best redundant and at worst destructive (beyond historical grievances with specific groups within religions, reasons for this view and whether or not those arguments have any merit, shall not be discussed here). Interestingly, numerous tyrannical regimes have tried to restrict or stamp out religions, as most religions teach at least some benevolence, and tyrants don't like being answerable to anyone. Some nations have just tried to block specific religions. Several nations have tried to get rid of religion altogether, albeit with horrifying [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists results] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge_rule_of_Cambodia#Religious_communities each] time; even at best they sidegrade from one set of problems to another.

==How this impacts /tg/==
A few major ways. There are three major "modes" of /tg/ settings and related fictions:

# The purely functional. Compared to the two types of writers found below, these writers are usually just attempting to model their work after real-world [[Mythology]] and are frequently attempting to keep their views of Religion separate from their work. Frequently comes in one of two subspecies:
*# The [[Standard Fantasy Setting]] default: The world is ruled by an ordinary polytheistic pantheon, usually close to some admixture of Norse and Greek mythologies. Some of them also have a Top God - one more powerful than all the others and maybe the in-universe creator of everything - who is mostly hands-off in cosmic affairs. The gods of these religions tend to focus on specific areas (gods of [[Paladin|Justice]] and [[Druid|Nature]] are common, for subtly obvious reasons) and frequently want their followers to propagate or promote these things.
*# The kind of setting they wanted to make dictated the nature of the divine. For example, in [[Exalted]] just about all the figures anybody would call a "God" (besides the Exalted) are Useless, because the Exalted (which includes the Player Characters) are supposed to be the Most Important People in the world, to go with the main theme of the setting for the PCs: "You can do '''almost anything''', except ''avoid the consequences of being the one who did that anything''".
# There are several writers of Science Fiction and Fantasy that are of the opinion "Religion Is Bad". This is more common in Sci-Fi than fantasy because the focus on science appeals to the naturalist, empiricist and/or humanist worldview of writers who have it, with the supernatural being seen as an obstacle to that; personal issues of the author such as grievance or prejudice can also play a role, but that's case-by-case and a major can of worms. As a result those writers model their fictional religions on the - occasionally exaggerated - worst excesses of real world religious people and lift imagery from those religions; popular targets are Christianity, Islam, the Aztec and - in recent history - Scientology. This comes in flavors of either "The Gods Don't Exist", "The Gods are Incompetent" (more on that below) or "The Gods are all Evil". # There are also quite a few sincerely religious Science Fiction and Fantasy writers (usually Christian, but not always). These authors usually put more thought into their fictional religion plus its central figure (although they have a tendency to go all "Crystal Dragon Jesus"), and try and have it be at least a somewhat good influence, although religious institutions and leaders are usually hit-and-miss affairs.

If a work has multiple writers, (as frequently happens with RPG and Wargame settings, and quite a few popular SciFi/Fantasy ones as well) there's a tendency for the writers to try and pull the setting into one of the other two "modes" depending on their views. This leads to the theme changing from one side to the other as the story progresses (such as [[World of Warcraft|the spate of retcons to the cosmology of the Warcraft universe]]), or swinging back and forth between them.

Doing the "The Gods are Incompetent" thing (the similar but different "The Gods are Insane", "The Gods Are Assholes" and "The Gods Don't Actually Do Anything" routes also falls under this umbrella) can go into any of the three; in a sincere monotheist's (such as Christian) work, it can be a "Take That" to polytheistic religions; in a "Religion is Bad" atheist's, it can be one to religion in general; in a Buddhist-influenced work, it can be a part of the whole "even the Gods are tied up in the Wheel of Karma" concept; and, even if the author is not pushing any religious message in any way, there's a neutral, plot-structural reason to go "Incompetent Gods": it can make the adventurers the Most Competent People Available.

[[Urban Fantasy]] writers are a special case, since almost all Urban Fantasy is set in something that might be called "the real world with a twist", with all the usual political trouble that implies. Usually, they take one of two routes. The first is "there are many possible explanations" and vague things up as much as possible (Faith being the power that repels [[Vampire]]s rather than than a cross having any actual connection to a deity is a popular one). The second (which is rarer outside of Cosmic Horror) is straight up [[Edgy|atheistic/"Religion is Bad"]] [[Imperial Truth|propaganda]], and in practice the writer often has an axe to grind against a specific religion (almost always the popular targets listed above). Some Urban Fantasy works with a clear correct religion exist thanks to the above mentioned sincerely religious authors, which are typically [[Chick Tracts|barely veiled proselytizing]] or [[Twilight|just straight up terrible]], though [[Monster Hunter International|there are some good ones]].
Speaking of Cosmic horror, that can also fall under the Urban Fantasy umbrella, and it blends the "Gods Don't Exist" or "Gods are Evil" route into "The Gods are actually Incomprehensible and Destructive Aliens". This also has the side effect of making it a popular choice for atheistic tracts (even Lovecraft himself was an anti-religious materialist).

Further, note the "Religion is Bad" and "Religion is Good" brigades will be involved in arguments over the relative morality or "goodness" of various factions in the story and the accuracy of any messages a writer presents.

==Examples of /tg/ connected fictional religions==
* The [[Imperial Truth]]/[[Imperial Cult|Cult]] in [[Warhammer 40,000]] manages to mix features of atheism, Catholicism, and generic fanaticism and xenophobia. Religiosity is mostly explored with humans and no real religions are used (since the Emperor [[The Last Church|violently purged them and those who followed them]] - except for maybe [[Ollanius Pius|one Catholic Perpetual]], and this all happened before [[Chaos]] entered the picture...). As for the other major factions;
** All Greenskins worship Gork and Mork (jury's out on whether the [[Gretchin Revolutionary Committee]] do), but are too disorganized to have anything like a formal religion, though they do make effigies of Gork and Mork and call on them.
** The T'au creed "The Greater Good" is a philosophy that allows religiosity as long as it doesn't clash with the Greater Good, but if there's a clash The Greater Good is always given priority over a religion.
** The Eldar Pantheon's religious practices aren't fleshed out save for those of Cegorach and Khaine, via the Harlequins and Aspect Warriors. Apart form these two, with most of their gods out of commission, most Eldar religious worship is of a deistic bent. The new faith around Ynnead, the Ynnari, have yet to establish teachings or rituals. As for the rest of the Eldar race, the Corsairs are all over the place, the Dark Eldar are irreligious for the most part (the popular exception are the [[Incubi]] who hold [[Khaine]] in high regard) and there's rumors of Chaos Eldar.
** While the Necrontyr had religions before certain [[C'tan|star entities]] [[Necrons|roboticizied them]], those aren't fleshed out or detailed. Its also heavily implied the C'tan co-opted the Necrontyr religion beforehand, with the change to Necrons taking the higher though processes of most of them. Any Necrons with any comprehension of faith and religiosity either worship the C'tan or have become irreligious.
** Tyranids have some concept of religiosity, as seen with propagating [[Genestealer]] cults and the Deathleaper understanding the concept of martyrdom, but otherwise display no interest or regard for anything other than their all-consuming extra-galactic hunger.
* Among Dungeons and Dragons settings, [[Planescape]], [[Eberron]], and [[Pathfinder]] are notable for having some coherent things that could be called "Religions", rather then the usual generic Pantheism.
** Most of Planescape's Factions effectively count as religions, to the point they can produce [[Cleric]]s ([[Planescape: Torment#Fall-From-Grace|Atheist ones at that]]). Yes, even the Athar. (Perhaps ''especially'' the Athar.)
** Half of Eberron's religions aren't worship of deities. The [[Blood of Vol]] seeks to unlock the divinity within one's self and rejects the gods (if they even exist) and the [[Path of Inspiration]] seeks to improve their next reincarnation. The Undying Court worships not gods but their undead ancestors that make up their government. The [[Path of Light]], [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Becoming_God|Becoming God]] and [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Reforged|Reforged]] all seek to ''create'' a deity. Even some interpretations of the [[Sovereign Host]], like the one most common among dragons, don't worship them as deities. Due to the way divine casting works in Eberron, all of these can produce divine casters.
** There's a handful of religions on [[Golarion]] that aren't merely worship of pantheons. The most prominent (read: Actually has mechanical support) is the [[Prophecies of Kalistrade]], which is basically fantasy [[Star Trek|Ferengi]].
* [[D20 Modern]]'s [[Urban Arcana]], unusually for urban fantasy, has D&D deities bleed into reality alongside the monsters. You are still able to play a <s>cleric</s> "acolyte" of any real world deity despite this.
* [[Star Wars]] is inconsistent on if the [[The Force]] is a religion. The Jedi and the Sith ''could'' both be considered religions as they are considered monastic, but mix in several other traits such as being meritocratic (Jedi) and kraterocratic (Sith) and Lucas himself has axed at least one prototyped book for portraying them too much as a religion. It's also notable that the Sith were former Jedi who left the Jedi path for several reasons including [[Heresy|disagreements over the teachings of that creed]]. Aside from that, religion is nearly always a non-human tradition, something noted in a culture's historical background and never seen implying its extinction, or a scam. The religiously linked "damn" and "hell" are the two real world swear words that exist in-universe, purely because Han Solo used them in the films, and some concept of an "angel" exists because a young Anakin told Padme about them in the prequel trilogy films.
** There are rare exceptions where a religion is fleshed out and explored, and the writing goes various directions for better or worse. A notable example is the aggressive polytheistic religion of the antagonistic Yuuzhan Vong from the EU (which the story gradually revealed was long ago perverted from benevolent roots, and this perverted form takes a few cues from Islam and Aztec mythology).
* Very large books could be written about religion and [[World of Darkness]]/Chronicles of Darkness. We'll just cover a few highlights:
** From [[Vampire: The Requiem]], there's the the Lancea et Sanctum, which might be best described as "Christianity for Vampires", and the Circle of the Crone, which is "Pagan Vampires". Both have Vampire miracles on tap (pun intended).
** [[Hunter: The Vigil]] has various religious organizations among the Compacts and Conspiracies.
** [[Mage: The Ascension]] has various religious Traditions, portrayed in that highly-stereotypical and highly-depending-on-the-author way typical of old WoD.

==See also==
* [[Mythology]]

[[Category:Not related]]
[[Category:History]]

Religion

2020-03-24T15:59:31Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:187:B744:68E8:D674: /* How this impacts /tg/ */

{{topquote|Science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge, which is power; religion gives man wisdom, which is control. Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly with values. The two are not rivals.|Martin Luther King, Jr}}

:'''Dracula''': ''I was called here by, huuuuumans, who wish to pay me tribute!''
:'''Richter Belmont''': ''Tribute?! You steal men's souls! And make them your slaves!''
:'''Dracula''': ''Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.''
::--An excerpt from the infamous exchange that also gave us "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets" in [[Castlevania#Castlevania:_Symphony_Of_The_Night_.28Castlevania_9.29|Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.]]

Because it's important to several settings and RPG systems, particularly ones that are high-profile or relevant to /tg/, we have a religion article. Let's try and keep it focused on the directly-related-to-/tg/ stuff and not descend into the pure [[skub]] that can arise in discussions of real-life religions, okay?

==Definition of Religion==
Almost since the inception of the term, scholars have failed to agree on a definition of religion. While there are some belief systems that always count as religions, some have applied the term to various things such as political ideologies, or groups when they reach a certain point. There are however two general definition systems: the sociological/functional and the phenomenological/philosophical.

The two most widely accepted are:
* "a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things, that is to say things set apart and forbidden - beliefs and practices which unite into one single moral community called a church, all those who adhere to them."
* "a comprehensive worldview or 'metaphysical moral vision' that is accepted as binding because it is held to be in itself basically true and just even if all dimensions of it cannot be either fully confirmed or refuted".

As stated before, one common element that every religion which fits the criteria has is humanity's relation to supernatural forces, as all of them have at least one [[God|god]] and/or an afterlife even where there are exceptions; Buddhism doesn't have any gods but has afterlives, and Taoism doesn't have an afterlife but does have a pantheistic concept of a god as a supernatural force.

Like other terms for heavily [[SJW|debated]] [[communism|subjects]], religion and religious have also been used as insults or Snarl Words in social and political discussions (especially from the 20th century and onwards) to ridicule groups openly promoting something the user disagrees with. This snarl creates a caricature of the group to smear them by association with the worst excesses/negative stereotypes of real-world religious people (like being too preachy, judgmental, irrational, hypocritical, or pressuring everyone to convert).

==Religion vs. Mythology==
While [[Mythology|mythologies]] aren't religions in and of themselves, every religion has a mythology. While mythologies are merely the accounts of supernatural events, religions also have several criteria such as how life should be lived, what happens to a person after death and humanity's relation to the supernatural. [[Skub|Whatever the source]], the mythology almost always predates the religion. As a result, especially since the Fantasy genre deals in supernatural beings and forces, most if not all fantasy settings have religions. Science fiction does to a lesser degree, mostly because during the Golden Age of sci-fi empiricists and secular humanists were attracted to the genre and their views often seeped into their stories. Despite this, given that most real-life societies have had religions playing a role in or since their founding, religions are still found in sci-fi.

Religions involves belief systems and practices, where an adherent can call upon the power/being the religion is focused on to give them aid in [[cleric|various]] [[Paladin|ways]], depending at the very least on the religion and the task in question. Given that religions are about people's place in the world, how it was made, ideas on how life should be lived and what happens after death, they have major implications for societies. Given that people can become [[Exarch|dangerously single-minded]] about a cause, people can be become extremists about their religion, regardless of the fact that [[Heironeous|some]] are more benevolent than [[Asmodeus|others]] and in numerous cases even [[Heresy|if it involves going against the religion's teachings]]; in conjunction with the above this means religious conflicts can become widespread, long-lasting, cause carnage and also involve other elements such as politics.

==Role in Society==
A person's belief (for or against) any or all religions is a major factor in their worldview, and as such often serves as the undercurrent for all others. This is because this belief shapes people's views on the big things such as the purpose of life, how life should be lived in relation to oneself and others and what happens to people after they die. On the upside, this often leads to teachings with the goal of unity, peace, charity and co-operation as per the teachings of most religions, some of which are adapted by or also found among non-religious systems. On the downside, this can lead to clashes over how the people involved do the will of whichever beings or forces they follow, which religion should be followed or whether or not people should follow a god or religion at all. This can involve arguments and factionalizing, or in some cases worse things like pogroms and wars. Since they are an overarching and fairly common element in cultures, they often appear or are referenced in fiction.

The most common religious belief systems are the Abrahamic family of religions (primarily Judaism, Christianity and Islam) which are Monotheistic (belief in a singular God) and share many common elements and root, with - at the time this was written - Christianity being the most followed religion globally.

Within the last few centuries, particularly due to events such as the French Revolution, there has also been a significant amount of anti-religious sentiment, with those who hold this view considering religion at best redundant and at worst destructive (beyond historical grievances with specific groups within religions, reasons for this view and whether or not those arguments have any merit, shall not be discussed here). Interestingly, numerous tyrannical regimes have tried to restrict or stamp out religions, as most religions teach at least some benevolence, and tyrants don't like being answerable to anyone. Some nations have just tried to block specific religions. Several nations have tried to get rid of religion altogether, albeit with horrifying [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists results] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge_rule_of_Cambodia#Religious_communities each] time; even at best they sidegrade from one set of problems to another.

==How this impacts /tg/==
A few major ways. There are three major "modes" of /tg/ settings and related fictions:

*# The purely functional. Compared to the two types of writers found below, these writers are usually just attempting to model their work after real-world [[Mythology]] and are frequently attempting to keep their views of Religion separate from their work. Frequently comes in one of two subspecies:
*#* The [[Standard Fantasy Setting]] default: The world is ruled by an ordinary polytheistic pantheon, usually close to some admixture of Norse and Greek mythologies. Some of them also have a Top God - one more powerful than all the others and maybe the in-universe creator of everything - who is mostly hands-off in cosmic affairs. The gods of these religions tend to focus on specific areas (gods of [[Paladin|Justice]] and [[Druid|Nature]] are common, for subtly obvious reasons) and frequently want their followers to propagate or promote these things.
*#* The kind of setting they wanted to make dictated the nature of the divine. For example, in [[Exalted]] just about all the figures anybody would call a "God" (besides the Exalted) are Useless, because the Exalted (which includes the Player Characters) are supposed to be the Most Important People in the world, to go with the main theme of the setting for the PCs: "You can do '''almost anything''', except ''avoid the consequences of being the one who did that anything''".
*# There are several writers of Science Fiction and Fantasy that are of the opinion "Religion Is Bad". This is more common in Sci-Fi than fantasy because the focus on science appeals to the naturalist, empiricist and/or humanist worldview of writers who have it, with the supernatural being seen as an obstacle to that; personal issues of the author such as grievance or prejudice can also play a role, but that's case-by-case and a major can of worms. As a result those writers model their fictional religions on the - occasionally exaggerated - worst excesses of real world religious people and lift imagery from those religions; popular targets are Christianity, Islam, the Aztec and - in recent history - Scientology. This comes in flavors of either "The Gods Don't Exist", "The Gods are Incompetent" (more on that below) or "The Gods are all Evil". *# There are also quite a few sincerely religious Science Fiction and Fantasy writers (usually Christian, but not always). These authors usually put more thought into their fictional religion plus its central figure (although they have a tendency to go all "Crystal Dragon Jesus"), and try and have it be at least a somewhat good influence, although religious institutions and leaders are usually hit-and-miss affairs.

If a work has multiple writers, (as frequently happens with RPG and Wargame settings, and quite a few popular SciFi/Fantasy ones as well) there's a tendency for the writers to try and pull the setting into one of the other two "modes" depending on their views. This leads to the theme changing from one side to the other as the story progresses (such as [[World of Warcraft|the spate of retcons to the cosmology of the Warcraft universe]]), or swinging back and forth between them.

Doing the "The Gods are Incompetent" thing (the similar but different "The Gods are Insane", "The Gods Are Assholes" and "The Gods Don't Actually Do Anything" routes also falls under this umbrella) can go into any of the three; in a sincere monotheist's (such as Christian) work, it can be a "Take That" to polytheistic religions; in a "Religion is Bad" atheist's, it can be one to religion in general; in a Buddhist-influenced work, it can be a part of the whole "even the Gods are tied up in the Wheel of Karma" concept; and, even if the author is not pushing any religious message in any way, there's a neutral, plot-structural reason to go "Incompetent Gods": it can make the adventurers the Most Competent People Available.

[[Urban Fantasy]] writers are a special case, since almost all Urban Fantasy is set in something that might be called "the real world with a twist", with all the usual political trouble that implies. Usually, they take one of two routes. The first is "there are many possible explanations" and vague things up as much as possible (Faith being the power that repels [[Vampire]]s rather than than a cross having any actual connection to a deity is a popular one). The second (which is rarer outside of Cosmic Horror) is straight up [[Edgy|atheistic/"Religion is Bad"]] [[Imperial Truth|propaganda]], and in practice the writer often has an axe to grind against a specific religion (almost always the popular targets listed above). Some Urban Fantasy works with a clear correct religion exist thanks to the above mentioned sincerely religious authors, which are typically [[Chick Tracts|barely veiled proselytizing]] or [[Twilight|just straight up terrible]], though [[Monster Hunter International|there are some good ones]].
Speaking of Cosmic horror, that can also fall under the Urban Fantasy umbrella, and it blends the "Gods Don't Exist" or "Gods are Evil" route into "The Gods are actually Incomprehensible and Destructive Aliens". This also has the side effect of making it a popular choice for atheistic tracts (even Lovecraft himself was an anti-religious materialist).

Further, note the "Religion is Bad" and "Religion is Good" brigades will be involved in arguments over the relative morality or "goodness" of various factions in the story and the accuracy of any messages a writer presents.

==Examples of /tg/ connected fictional religions==
* The [[Imperial Truth]]/[[Imperial Cult|Cult]] in [[Warhammer 40,000]] manages to mix features of atheism, Catholicism, and generic fanaticism and xenophobia. Religiosity is mostly explored with humans and no real religions are used (since the Emperor [[The Last Church|violently purged them and those who followed them]] - except for maybe [[Ollanius Pius|one Catholic Perpetual]], and this all happened before [[Chaos]] entered the picture...). As for the other major factions;
** All Greenskins worship Gork and Mork (jury's out on whether the [[Gretchin Revolutionary Committee]] do), but are too disorganized to have anything like a formal religion, though they do make effigies of Gork and Mork and call on them.
** The T'au creed "The Greater Good" is a philosophy that allows religiosity as long as it doesn't clash with the Greater Good, but if there's a clash The Greater Good is always given priority over a religion.
** The Eldar Pantheon's religious practices aren't fleshed out save for those of Cegorach and Khaine, via the Harlequins and Aspect Warriors. Apart form these two, with most of their gods out of commission, most Eldar religious worship is of a deistic bent. The new faith around Ynnead, the Ynnari, have yet to establish teachings or rituals. As for the rest of the Eldar race, the Corsairs are all over the place, the Dark Eldar are irreligious for the most part (the popular exception are the [[Incubi]] who hold [[Khaine]] in high regard) and there's rumors of Chaos Eldar.
** While the Necrontyr had religions before certain [[C'tan|star entities]] [[Necrons|roboticizied them]], those aren't fleshed out or detailed. Its also heavily implied the C'tan co-opted the Necrontyr religion beforehand, with the change to Necrons taking the higher though processes of most of them. Any Necrons with any comprehension of faith and religiosity either worship the C'tan or have become irreligious.
** Tyranids have some concept of religiosity, as seen with propagating [[Genestealer]] cults and the Deathleaper understanding the concept of martyrdom, but otherwise display no interest or regard for anything other than their all-consuming extra-galactic hunger.
* Among Dungeons and Dragons settings, [[Planescape]], [[Eberron]], and [[Pathfinder]] are notable for having some coherent things that could be called "Religions", rather then the usual generic Pantheism.
** Most of Planescape's Factions effectively count as religions, to the point they can produce [[Cleric]]s ([[Planescape: Torment#Fall-From-Grace|Atheist ones at that]]). Yes, even the Athar. (Perhaps ''especially'' the Athar.)
** Half of Eberron's religions aren't worship of deities. The [[Blood of Vol]] seeks to unlock the divinity within one's self and rejects the gods (if they even exist) and the [[Path of Inspiration]] seeks to improve their next reincarnation. The Undying Court worships not gods but their undead ancestors that make up their government. The [[Path of Light]], [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Becoming_God|Becoming God]] and [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Reforged|Reforged]] all seek to ''create'' a deity. Even some interpretations of the [[Sovereign Host]], like the one most common among dragons, don't worship them as deities. Due to the way divine casting works in Eberron, all of these can produce divine casters.
** There's a handful of religions on [[Golarion]] that aren't merely worship of pantheons. The most prominent (read: Actually has mechanical support) is the [[Prophecies of Kalistrade]], which is basically fantasy [[Star Trek|Ferengi]].
* [[D20 Modern]]'s [[Urban Arcana]], unusually for urban fantasy, has D&D deities bleed into reality alongside the monsters. You are still able to play a <s>cleric</s> "acolyte" of any real world deity despite this.
* [[Star Wars]] is inconsistent on if the [[The Force]] is a religion. The Jedi and the Sith ''could'' both be considered religions as they are considered monastic, but mix in several other traits such as being meritocratic (Jedi) and kraterocratic (Sith) and Lucas himself has axed at least one prototyped book for portraying them too much as a religion. It's also notable that the Sith were former Jedi who left the Jedi path for several reasons including [[Heresy|disagreements over the teachings of that creed]]. Aside from that, religion is nearly always a non-human tradition, something noted in a culture's historical background and never seen implying its extinction, or a scam. The religiously linked "damn" and "hell" are the two real world swear words that exist in-universe, purely because Han Solo used them in the films, and some concept of an "angel" exists because a young Anakin told Padme about them in the prequel trilogy films.
** There are rare exceptions where a religion is fleshed out and explored, and the writing goes various directions for better or worse. A notable example is the aggressive polytheistic religion of the antagonistic Yuuzhan Vong from the EU (which the story gradually revealed was long ago perverted from benevolent roots, and this perverted form takes a few cues from Islam and Aztec mythology).
* Very large books could be written about religion and [[World of Darkness]]/Chronicles of Darkness. We'll just cover a few highlights:
** From [[Vampire: The Requiem]], there's the the Lancea et Sanctum, which might be best described as "Christianity for Vampires", and the Circle of the Crone, which is "Pagan Vampires". Both have Vampire miracles on tap (pun intended).
** [[Hunter: The Vigil]] has various religious organizations among the Compacts and Conspiracies.
** [[Mage: The Ascension]] has various religious Traditions, portrayed in that highly-stereotypical and highly-depending-on-the-author way typical of old WoD.

==See also==
* [[Mythology]]

[[Category:Not related]]
[[Category:History]]

Religion

2020-03-24T15:58:49Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:187:B744:68E8:D674: /* How this impacts /tg/ */

{{topquote|Science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge, which is power; religion gives man wisdom, which is control. Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly with values. The two are not rivals.|Martin Luther King, Jr}}

:'''Dracula''': ''I was called here by, huuuuumans, who wish to pay me tribute!''
:'''Richter Belmont''': ''Tribute?! You steal men's souls! And make them your slaves!''
:'''Dracula''': ''Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.''
::--An excerpt from the infamous exchange that also gave us "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets" in [[Castlevania#Castlevania:_Symphony_Of_The_Night_.28Castlevania_9.29|Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.]]

Because it's important to several settings and RPG systems, particularly ones that are high-profile or relevant to /tg/, we have a religion article. Let's try and keep it focused on the directly-related-to-/tg/ stuff and not descend into the pure [[skub]] that can arise in discussions of real-life religions, okay?

==Definition of Religion==
Almost since the inception of the term, scholars have failed to agree on a definition of religion. While there are some belief systems that always count as religions, some have applied the term to various things such as political ideologies, or groups when they reach a certain point. There are however two general definition systems: the sociological/functional and the phenomenological/philosophical.

The two most widely accepted are:
* "a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things, that is to say things set apart and forbidden - beliefs and practices which unite into one single moral community called a church, all those who adhere to them."
* "a comprehensive worldview or 'metaphysical moral vision' that is accepted as binding because it is held to be in itself basically true and just even if all dimensions of it cannot be either fully confirmed or refuted".

As stated before, one common element that every religion which fits the criteria has is humanity's relation to supernatural forces, as all of them have at least one [[God|god]] and/or an afterlife even where there are exceptions; Buddhism doesn't have any gods but has afterlives, and Taoism doesn't have an afterlife but does have a pantheistic concept of a god as a supernatural force.

Like other terms for heavily [[SJW|debated]] [[communism|subjects]], religion and religious have also been used as insults or Snarl Words in social and political discussions (especially from the 20th century and onwards) to ridicule groups openly promoting something the user disagrees with. This snarl creates a caricature of the group to smear them by association with the worst excesses/negative stereotypes of real-world religious people (like being too preachy, judgmental, irrational, hypocritical, or pressuring everyone to convert).

==Religion vs. Mythology==
While [[Mythology|mythologies]] aren't religions in and of themselves, every religion has a mythology. While mythologies are merely the accounts of supernatural events, religions also have several criteria such as how life should be lived, what happens to a person after death and humanity's relation to the supernatural. [[Skub|Whatever the source]], the mythology almost always predates the religion. As a result, especially since the Fantasy genre deals in supernatural beings and forces, most if not all fantasy settings have religions. Science fiction does to a lesser degree, mostly because during the Golden Age of sci-fi empiricists and secular humanists were attracted to the genre and their views often seeped into their stories. Despite this, given that most real-life societies have had religions playing a role in or since their founding, religions are still found in sci-fi.

Religions involves belief systems and practices, where an adherent can call upon the power/being the religion is focused on to give them aid in [[cleric|various]] [[Paladin|ways]], depending at the very least on the religion and the task in question. Given that religions are about people's place in the world, how it was made, ideas on how life should be lived and what happens after death, they have major implications for societies. Given that people can become [[Exarch|dangerously single-minded]] about a cause, people can be become extremists about their religion, regardless of the fact that [[Heironeous|some]] are more benevolent than [[Asmodeus|others]] and in numerous cases even [[Heresy|if it involves going against the religion's teachings]]; in conjunction with the above this means religious conflicts can become widespread, long-lasting, cause carnage and also involve other elements such as politics.

==Role in Society==
A person's belief (for or against) any or all religions is a major factor in their worldview, and as such often serves as the undercurrent for all others. This is because this belief shapes people's views on the big things such as the purpose of life, how life should be lived in relation to oneself and others and what happens to people after they die. On the upside, this often leads to teachings with the goal of unity, peace, charity and co-operation as per the teachings of most religions, some of which are adapted by or also found among non-religious systems. On the downside, this can lead to clashes over how the people involved do the will of whichever beings or forces they follow, which religion should be followed or whether or not people should follow a god or religion at all. This can involve arguments and factionalizing, or in some cases worse things like pogroms and wars. Since they are an overarching and fairly common element in cultures, they often appear or are referenced in fiction.

The most common religious belief systems are the Abrahamic family of religions (primarily Judaism, Christianity and Islam) which are Monotheistic (belief in a singular God) and share many common elements and root, with - at the time this was written - Christianity being the most followed religion globally.

Within the last few centuries, particularly due to events such as the French Revolution, there has also been a significant amount of anti-religious sentiment, with those who hold this view considering religion at best redundant and at worst destructive (beyond historical grievances with specific groups within religions, reasons for this view and whether or not those arguments have any merit, shall not be discussed here). Interestingly, numerous tyrannical regimes have tried to restrict or stamp out religions, as most religions teach at least some benevolence, and tyrants don't like being answerable to anyone. Some nations have just tried to block specific religions. Several nations have tried to get rid of religion altogether, albeit with horrifying [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists results] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge_rule_of_Cambodia#Religious_communities each] time; even at best they sidegrade from one set of problems to another.

==How this impacts /tg/==
A few major ways. There are three major "modes" of /tg/ settings and related fictions:

# The purely functional. Compared to the two types of writers found below, these writers are usually just attempting to model their work after real-world [[Mythology]] and are frequently attempting to keep their views of Religion separate from their work. Frequently comes in one of two subspecies:
*#* The [[Standard Fantasy Setting]] default: The world is ruled by an ordinary polytheistic pantheon, usually close to some admixture of Norse and Greek mythologies. Some of them also have a Top God - one more powerful than all the others and maybe the in-universe creator of everything - who is mostly hands-off in cosmic affairs. The gods of these religions tend to focus on specific areas (gods of [[Paladin|Justice]] and [[Druid|Nature]] are common, for subtly obvious reasons) and frequently want their followers to propagate or promote these things.
#* The kind of setting they wanted to make dictated the nature of the divine. For example, in [[Exalted]] just about all the figures anybody would call a "God" (besides the Exalted) are Useless, because the Exalted (which includes the Player Characters) are supposed to be the Most Important People in the world, to go with the main theme of the setting for the PCs: "You can do '''almost anything''', except ''avoid the consequences of being the one who did that anything''".
# There are several writers of Science Fiction and Fantasy that are of the opinion "Religion Is Bad". This is more common in Sci-Fi than fantasy because the focus on science appeals to the naturalist, empiricist and/or humanist worldview of writers who have it, with the supernatural being seen as an obstacle to that; personal issues of the author such as grievance or prejudice can also play a role, but that's case-by-case and a major can of worms. As a result those writers model their fictional religions on the - occasionally exaggerated - worst excesses of real world religious people and lift imagery from those religions; popular targets are Christianity, Islam, the Aztec and - in recent history - Scientology. This comes in flavors of either "The Gods Don't Exist", "The Gods are Incompetent" (more on that below) or "The Gods are all Evil". There are also quite a few sincerely religious Science Fiction and Fantasy writers (usually Christian, but not always). These authors usually put more thought into their fictional religion plus its central figure (although they have a tendency to go all "Crystal Dragon Jesus"), and try and have it be at least a somewhat good influence, although religious institutions and leaders are usually hit-and-miss affairs.

If a work has multiple writers, (as frequently happens with RPG and Wargame settings, and quite a few popular SciFi/Fantasy ones as well) there's a tendency for the writers to try and pull the setting into one of the other two "modes" depending on their views. This leads to the theme changing from one side to the other as the story progresses (such as [[World of Warcraft|the spate of retcons to the cosmology of the Warcraft universe]]), or swinging back and forth between them.

Doing the "The Gods are Incompetent" thing (the similar but different "The Gods are Insane", "The Gods Are Assholes" and "The Gods Don't Actually Do Anything" routes also falls under this umbrella) can go into any of the three; in a sincere monotheist's (such as Christian) work, it can be a "Take That" to polytheistic religions; in a "Religion is Bad" atheist's, it can be one to religion in general; in a Buddhist-influenced work, it can be a part of the whole "even the Gods are tied up in the Wheel of Karma" concept; and, even if the author is not pushing any religious message in any way, there's a neutral, plot-structural reason to go "Incompetent Gods": it can make the adventurers the Most Competent People Available.

[[Urban Fantasy]] writers are a special case, since almost all Urban Fantasy is set in something that might be called "the real world with a twist", with all the usual political trouble that implies. Usually, they take one of two routes. The first is "there are many possible explanations" and vague things up as much as possible (Faith being the power that repels [[Vampire]]s rather than than a cross having any actual connection to a deity is a popular one). The second (which is rarer outside of Cosmic Horror) is straight up [[Edgy|atheistic/"Religion is Bad"]] [[Imperial Truth|propaganda]], and in practice the writer often has an axe to grind against a specific religion (almost always the popular targets listed above). Some Urban Fantasy works with a clear correct religion exist thanks to the above mentioned sincerely religious authors, which are typically [[Chick Tracts|barely veiled proselytizing]] or [[Twilight|just straight up terrible]], though [[Monster Hunter International|there are some good ones]].
Speaking of Cosmic horror, that can also fall under the Urban Fantasy umbrella, and it blends the "Gods Don't Exist" or "Gods are Evil" route into "The Gods are actually Incomprehensible and Destructive Aliens". This also has the side effect of making it a popular choice for atheistic tracts (even Lovecraft himself was an anti-religious materialist).

Further, note the "Religion is Bad" and "Religion is Good" brigades will be involved in arguments over the relative morality or "goodness" of various factions in the story and the accuracy of any messages a writer presents.

==Examples of /tg/ connected fictional religions==
* The [[Imperial Truth]]/[[Imperial Cult|Cult]] in [[Warhammer 40,000]] manages to mix features of atheism, Catholicism, and generic fanaticism and xenophobia. Religiosity is mostly explored with humans and no real religions are used (since the Emperor [[The Last Church|violently purged them and those who followed them]] - except for maybe [[Ollanius Pius|one Catholic Perpetual]], and this all happened before [[Chaos]] entered the picture...). As for the other major factions;
** All Greenskins worship Gork and Mork (jury's out on whether the [[Gretchin Revolutionary Committee]] do), but are too disorganized to have anything like a formal religion, though they do make effigies of Gork and Mork and call on them.
** The T'au creed "The Greater Good" is a philosophy that allows religiosity as long as it doesn't clash with the Greater Good, but if there's a clash The Greater Good is always given priority over a religion.
** The Eldar Pantheon's religious practices aren't fleshed out save for those of Cegorach and Khaine, via the Harlequins and Aspect Warriors. Apart form these two, with most of their gods out of commission, most Eldar religious worship is of a deistic bent. The new faith around Ynnead, the Ynnari, have yet to establish teachings or rituals. As for the rest of the Eldar race, the Corsairs are all over the place, the Dark Eldar are irreligious for the most part (the popular exception are the [[Incubi]] who hold [[Khaine]] in high regard) and there's rumors of Chaos Eldar.
** While the Necrontyr had religions before certain [[C'tan|star entities]] [[Necrons|roboticizied them]], those aren't fleshed out or detailed. Its also heavily implied the C'tan co-opted the Necrontyr religion beforehand, with the change to Necrons taking the higher though processes of most of them. Any Necrons with any comprehension of faith and religiosity either worship the C'tan or have become irreligious.
** Tyranids have some concept of religiosity, as seen with propagating [[Genestealer]] cults and the Deathleaper understanding the concept of martyrdom, but otherwise display no interest or regard for anything other than their all-consuming extra-galactic hunger.
* Among Dungeons and Dragons settings, [[Planescape]], [[Eberron]], and [[Pathfinder]] are notable for having some coherent things that could be called "Religions", rather then the usual generic Pantheism.
** Most of Planescape's Factions effectively count as religions, to the point they can produce [[Cleric]]s ([[Planescape: Torment#Fall-From-Grace|Atheist ones at that]]). Yes, even the Athar. (Perhaps ''especially'' the Athar.)
** Half of Eberron's religions aren't worship of deities. The [[Blood of Vol]] seeks to unlock the divinity within one's self and rejects the gods (if they even exist) and the [[Path of Inspiration]] seeks to improve their next reincarnation. The Undying Court worships not gods but their undead ancestors that make up their government. The [[Path of Light]], [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Becoming_God|Becoming God]] and [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Reforged|Reforged]] all seek to ''create'' a deity. Even some interpretations of the [[Sovereign Host]], like the one most common among dragons, don't worship them as deities. Due to the way divine casting works in Eberron, all of these can produce divine casters.
** There's a handful of religions on [[Golarion]] that aren't merely worship of pantheons. The most prominent (read: Actually has mechanical support) is the [[Prophecies of Kalistrade]], which is basically fantasy [[Star Trek|Ferengi]].
* [[D20 Modern]]'s [[Urban Arcana]], unusually for urban fantasy, has D&D deities bleed into reality alongside the monsters. You are still able to play a <s>cleric</s> "acolyte" of any real world deity despite this.
* [[Star Wars]] is inconsistent on if the [[The Force]] is a religion. The Jedi and the Sith ''could'' both be considered religions as they are considered monastic, but mix in several other traits such as being meritocratic (Jedi) and kraterocratic (Sith) and Lucas himself has axed at least one prototyped book for portraying them too much as a religion. It's also notable that the Sith were former Jedi who left the Jedi path for several reasons including [[Heresy|disagreements over the teachings of that creed]]. Aside from that, religion is nearly always a non-human tradition, something noted in a culture's historical background and never seen implying its extinction, or a scam. The religiously linked "damn" and "hell" are the two real world swear words that exist in-universe, purely because Han Solo used them in the films, and some concept of an "angel" exists because a young Anakin told Padme about them in the prequel trilogy films.
** There are rare exceptions where a religion is fleshed out and explored, and the writing goes various directions for better or worse. A notable example is the aggressive polytheistic religion of the antagonistic Yuuzhan Vong from the EU (which the story gradually revealed was long ago perverted from benevolent roots, and this perverted form takes a few cues from Islam and Aztec mythology).
* Very large books could be written about religion and [[World of Darkness]]/Chronicles of Darkness. We'll just cover a few highlights:
** From [[Vampire: The Requiem]], there's the the Lancea et Sanctum, which might be best described as "Christianity for Vampires", and the Circle of the Crone, which is "Pagan Vampires". Both have Vampire miracles on tap (pun intended).
** [[Hunter: The Vigil]] has various religious organizations among the Compacts and Conspiracies.
** [[Mage: The Ascension]] has various religious Traditions, portrayed in that highly-stereotypical and highly-depending-on-the-author way typical of old WoD.

==See also==
* [[Mythology]]

[[Category:Not related]]
[[Category:History]]

Religion

2020-03-24T15:58:09Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:187:B744:68E8:D674: /* How this impacts /tg/ */

{{topquote|Science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge, which is power; religion gives man wisdom, which is control. Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly with values. The two are not rivals.|Martin Luther King, Jr}}

:'''Dracula''': ''I was called here by, huuuuumans, who wish to pay me tribute!''
:'''Richter Belmont''': ''Tribute?! You steal men's souls! And make them your slaves!''
:'''Dracula''': ''Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.''
::--An excerpt from the infamous exchange that also gave us "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets" in [[Castlevania#Castlevania:_Symphony_Of_The_Night_.28Castlevania_9.29|Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.]]

Because it's important to several settings and RPG systems, particularly ones that are high-profile or relevant to /tg/, we have a religion article. Let's try and keep it focused on the directly-related-to-/tg/ stuff and not descend into the pure [[skub]] that can arise in discussions of real-life religions, okay?

==Definition of Religion==
Almost since the inception of the term, scholars have failed to agree on a definition of religion. While there are some belief systems that always count as religions, some have applied the term to various things such as political ideologies, or groups when they reach a certain point. There are however two general definition systems: the sociological/functional and the phenomenological/philosophical.

The two most widely accepted are:
* "a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things, that is to say things set apart and forbidden - beliefs and practices which unite into one single moral community called a church, all those who adhere to them."
* "a comprehensive worldview or 'metaphysical moral vision' that is accepted as binding because it is held to be in itself basically true and just even if all dimensions of it cannot be either fully confirmed or refuted".

As stated before, one common element that every religion which fits the criteria has is humanity's relation to supernatural forces, as all of them have at least one [[God|god]] and/or an afterlife even where there are exceptions; Buddhism doesn't have any gods but has afterlives, and Taoism doesn't have an afterlife but does have a pantheistic concept of a god as a supernatural force.

Like other terms for heavily [[SJW|debated]] [[communism|subjects]], religion and religious have also been used as insults or Snarl Words in social and political discussions (especially from the 20th century and onwards) to ridicule groups openly promoting something the user disagrees with. This snarl creates a caricature of the group to smear them by association with the worst excesses/negative stereotypes of real-world religious people (like being too preachy, judgmental, irrational, hypocritical, or pressuring everyone to convert).

==Religion vs. Mythology==
While [[Mythology|mythologies]] aren't religions in and of themselves, every religion has a mythology. While mythologies are merely the accounts of supernatural events, religions also have several criteria such as how life should be lived, what happens to a person after death and humanity's relation to the supernatural. [[Skub|Whatever the source]], the mythology almost always predates the religion. As a result, especially since the Fantasy genre deals in supernatural beings and forces, most if not all fantasy settings have religions. Science fiction does to a lesser degree, mostly because during the Golden Age of sci-fi empiricists and secular humanists were attracted to the genre and their views often seeped into their stories. Despite this, given that most real-life societies have had religions playing a role in or since their founding, religions are still found in sci-fi.

Religions involves belief systems and practices, where an adherent can call upon the power/being the religion is focused on to give them aid in [[cleric|various]] [[Paladin|ways]], depending at the very least on the religion and the task in question. Given that religions are about people's place in the world, how it was made, ideas on how life should be lived and what happens after death, they have major implications for societies. Given that people can become [[Exarch|dangerously single-minded]] about a cause, people can be become extremists about their religion, regardless of the fact that [[Heironeous|some]] are more benevolent than [[Asmodeus|others]] and in numerous cases even [[Heresy|if it involves going against the religion's teachings]]; in conjunction with the above this means religious conflicts can become widespread, long-lasting, cause carnage and also involve other elements such as politics.

==Role in Society==
A person's belief (for or against) any or all religions is a major factor in their worldview, and as such often serves as the undercurrent for all others. This is because this belief shapes people's views on the big things such as the purpose of life, how life should be lived in relation to oneself and others and what happens to people after they die. On the upside, this often leads to teachings with the goal of unity, peace, charity and co-operation as per the teachings of most religions, some of which are adapted by or also found among non-religious systems. On the downside, this can lead to clashes over how the people involved do the will of whichever beings or forces they follow, which religion should be followed or whether or not people should follow a god or religion at all. This can involve arguments and factionalizing, or in some cases worse things like pogroms and wars. Since they are an overarching and fairly common element in cultures, they often appear or are referenced in fiction.

The most common religious belief systems are the Abrahamic family of religions (primarily Judaism, Christianity and Islam) which are Monotheistic (belief in a singular God) and share many common elements and root, with - at the time this was written - Christianity being the most followed religion globally.

Within the last few centuries, particularly due to events such as the French Revolution, there has also been a significant amount of anti-religious sentiment, with those who hold this view considering religion at best redundant and at worst destructive (beyond historical grievances with specific groups within religions, reasons for this view and whether or not those arguments have any merit, shall not be discussed here). Interestingly, numerous tyrannical regimes have tried to restrict or stamp out religions, as most religions teach at least some benevolence, and tyrants don't like being answerable to anyone. Some nations have just tried to block specific religions. Several nations have tried to get rid of religion altogether, albeit with horrifying [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists results] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge_rule_of_Cambodia#Religious_communities each] time; even at best they sidegrade from one set of problems to another.

==How this impacts /tg/==
A few major ways. There are three major "modes" of /tg/ settings and related fictions:

*# The purely functional. Compared to the two types of writers found below, these writers are usually just attempting to model their work after real-world [[Mythology]] and are frequently attempting to keep their views of Religion separate from their work. Frequently comes in one of two subspecies:
*#* The [[Standard Fantasy Setting]] default: The world is ruled by an ordinary polytheistic pantheon, usually close to some admixture of Norse and Greek mythologies. Some of them also have a Top God - one more powerful than all the others and maybe the in-universe creator of everything - who is mostly hands-off in cosmic affairs. The gods of these religions tend to focus on specific areas (gods of [[Paladin|Justice]] and [[Druid|Nature]] are common, for subtly obvious reasons) and frequently want their followers to propagate or promote these things.
*#* The kind of setting they wanted to make dictated the nature of the divine. For example, in [[Exalted]] just about all the figures anybody would call a "God" (besides the Exalted) are Useless, because the Exalted (which includes the Player Characters) are supposed to be the Most Important People in the world, to go with the main theme of the setting for the PCs: "You can do '''almost anything''', except ''avoid the consequences of being the one who did that anything''".
*# There are several writers of Science Fiction and Fantasy that are of the opinion "Religion Is Bad". This is more common in Sci-Fi than fantasy because the focus on science appeals to the naturalist, empiricist and/or humanist worldview of writers who have it, with the supernatural being seen as an obstacle to that; personal issues of the author such as grievance or prejudice can also play a role, but that's case-by-case and a major can of worms. As a result those writers model their fictional religions on the - occasionally exaggerated - worst excesses of real world religious people and lift imagery from those religions; popular targets are Christianity, Islam, the Aztec and - in recent history - Scientology. This comes in flavors of either "The Gods Don't Exist", "The Gods are Incompetent" (more on that below) or "The Gods are all Evil".
*# There are also quite a few sincerely religious Science Fiction and Fantasy writers (usually Christian, but not always). These authors usually put more thought into their fictional religion plus its central figure (although they have a tendency to go all "Crystal Dragon Jesus"), and try and have it be at least a somewhat good influence, although religious institutions and leaders are usually hit-and-miss affairs.

If a work has multiple writers, (as frequently happens with RPG and Wargame settings, and quite a few popular SciFi/Fantasy ones as well) there's a tendency for the writers to try and pull the setting into one of the other two "modes" depending on their views. This leads to the theme changing from one side to the other as the story progresses (such as [[World of Warcraft|the spate of retcons to the cosmology of the Warcraft universe]]), or swinging back and forth between them.

Doing the "The Gods are Incompetent" thing (the similar but different "The Gods are Insane", "The Gods Are Assholes" and "The Gods Don't Actually Do Anything" routes also falls under this umbrella) can go into any of the three; in a sincere monotheist's (such as Christian) work, it can be a "Take That" to polytheistic religions; in a "Religion is Bad" atheist's, it can be one to religion in general; in a Buddhist-influenced work, it can be a part of the whole "even the Gods are tied up in the Wheel of Karma" concept; and, even if the author is not pushing any religious message in any way, there's a neutral, plot-structural reason to go "Incompetent Gods": it can make the adventurers the Most Competent People Available.

[[Urban Fantasy]] writers are a special case, since almost all Urban Fantasy is set in something that might be called "the real world with a twist", with all the usual political trouble that implies. Usually, they take one of two routes. The first is "there are many possible explanations" and vague things up as much as possible (Faith being the power that repels [[Vampire]]s rather than than a cross having any actual connection to a deity is a popular one). The second (which is rarer outside of Cosmic Horror) is straight up [[Edgy|atheistic/"Religion is Bad"]] [[Imperial Truth|propaganda]], and in practice the writer often has an axe to grind against a specific religion (almost always the popular targets listed above). Some Urban Fantasy works with a clear correct religion exist thanks to the above mentioned sincerely religious authors, which are typically [[Chick Tracts|barely veiled proselytizing]] or [[Twilight|just straight up terrible]], though [[Monster Hunter International|there are some good ones]].
Speaking of Cosmic horror, that can also fall under the Urban Fantasy umbrella, and it blends the "Gods Don't Exist" or "Gods are Evil" route into "The Gods are actually Incomprehensible and Destructive Aliens". This also has the side effect of making it a popular choice for atheistic tracts (even Lovecraft himself was an anti-religious materialist).

Further, note the "Religion is Bad" and "Religion is Good" brigades will be involved in arguments over the relative morality or "goodness" of various factions in the story and the accuracy of any messages a writer presents.

==Examples of /tg/ connected fictional religions==
* The [[Imperial Truth]]/[[Imperial Cult|Cult]] in [[Warhammer 40,000]] manages to mix features of atheism, Catholicism, and generic fanaticism and xenophobia. Religiosity is mostly explored with humans and no real religions are used (since the Emperor [[The Last Church|violently purged them and those who followed them]] - except for maybe [[Ollanius Pius|one Catholic Perpetual]], and this all happened before [[Chaos]] entered the picture...). As for the other major factions;
** All Greenskins worship Gork and Mork (jury's out on whether the [[Gretchin Revolutionary Committee]] do), but are too disorganized to have anything like a formal religion, though they do make effigies of Gork and Mork and call on them.
** The T'au creed "The Greater Good" is a philosophy that allows religiosity as long as it doesn't clash with the Greater Good, but if there's a clash The Greater Good is always given priority over a religion.
** The Eldar Pantheon's religious practices aren't fleshed out save for those of Cegorach and Khaine, via the Harlequins and Aspect Warriors. Apart form these two, with most of their gods out of commission, most Eldar religious worship is of a deistic bent. The new faith around Ynnead, the Ynnari, have yet to establish teachings or rituals. As for the rest of the Eldar race, the Corsairs are all over the place, the Dark Eldar are irreligious for the most part (the popular exception are the [[Incubi]] who hold [[Khaine]] in high regard) and there's rumors of Chaos Eldar.
** While the Necrontyr had religions before certain [[C'tan|star entities]] [[Necrons|roboticizied them]], those aren't fleshed out or detailed. Its also heavily implied the C'tan co-opted the Necrontyr religion beforehand, with the change to Necrons taking the higher though processes of most of them. Any Necrons with any comprehension of faith and religiosity either worship the C'tan or have become irreligious.
** Tyranids have some concept of religiosity, as seen with propagating [[Genestealer]] cults and the Deathleaper understanding the concept of martyrdom, but otherwise display no interest or regard for anything other than their all-consuming extra-galactic hunger.
* Among Dungeons and Dragons settings, [[Planescape]], [[Eberron]], and [[Pathfinder]] are notable for having some coherent things that could be called "Religions", rather then the usual generic Pantheism.
** Most of Planescape's Factions effectively count as religions, to the point they can produce [[Cleric]]s ([[Planescape: Torment#Fall-From-Grace|Atheist ones at that]]). Yes, even the Athar. (Perhaps ''especially'' the Athar.)
** Half of Eberron's religions aren't worship of deities. The [[Blood of Vol]] seeks to unlock the divinity within one's self and rejects the gods (if they even exist) and the [[Path of Inspiration]] seeks to improve their next reincarnation. The Undying Court worships not gods but their undead ancestors that make up their government. The [[Path of Light]], [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Becoming_God|Becoming God]] and [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Reforged|Reforged]] all seek to ''create'' a deity. Even some interpretations of the [[Sovereign Host]], like the one most common among dragons, don't worship them as deities. Due to the way divine casting works in Eberron, all of these can produce divine casters.
** There's a handful of religions on [[Golarion]] that aren't merely worship of pantheons. The most prominent (read: Actually has mechanical support) is the [[Prophecies of Kalistrade]], which is basically fantasy [[Star Trek|Ferengi]].
* [[D20 Modern]]'s [[Urban Arcana]], unusually for urban fantasy, has D&D deities bleed into reality alongside the monsters. You are still able to play a <s>cleric</s> "acolyte" of any real world deity despite this.
* [[Star Wars]] is inconsistent on if the [[The Force]] is a religion. The Jedi and the Sith ''could'' both be considered religions as they are considered monastic, but mix in several other traits such as being meritocratic (Jedi) and kraterocratic (Sith) and Lucas himself has axed at least one prototyped book for portraying them too much as a religion. It's also notable that the Sith were former Jedi who left the Jedi path for several reasons including [[Heresy|disagreements over the teachings of that creed]]. Aside from that, religion is nearly always a non-human tradition, something noted in a culture's historical background and never seen implying its extinction, or a scam. The religiously linked "damn" and "hell" are the two real world swear words that exist in-universe, purely because Han Solo used them in the films, and some concept of an "angel" exists because a young Anakin told Padme about them in the prequel trilogy films.
** There are rare exceptions where a religion is fleshed out and explored, and the writing goes various directions for better or worse. A notable example is the aggressive polytheistic religion of the antagonistic Yuuzhan Vong from the EU (which the story gradually revealed was long ago perverted from benevolent roots, and this perverted form takes a few cues from Islam and Aztec mythology).
* Very large books could be written about religion and [[World of Darkness]]/Chronicles of Darkness. We'll just cover a few highlights:
** From [[Vampire: The Requiem]], there's the the Lancea et Sanctum, which might be best described as "Christianity for Vampires", and the Circle of the Crone, which is "Pagan Vampires". Both have Vampire miracles on tap (pun intended).
** [[Hunter: The Vigil]] has various religious organizations among the Compacts and Conspiracies.
** [[Mage: The Ascension]] has various religious Traditions, portrayed in that highly-stereotypical and highly-depending-on-the-author way typical of old WoD.

==See also==
* [[Mythology]]

[[Category:Not related]]
[[Category:History]]

Religion

2020-03-24T15:53:56Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:187:B744:68E8:D674:

{{topquote|Science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge, which is power; religion gives man wisdom, which is control. Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly with values. The two are not rivals.|Martin Luther King, Jr}}

:'''Dracula''': ''I was called here by, huuuuumans, who wish to pay me tribute!''
:'''Richter Belmont''': ''Tribute?! You steal men's souls! And make them your slaves!''
:'''Dracula''': ''Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.''
::--An excerpt from the infamous exchange that also gave us "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets" in [[Castlevania#Castlevania:_Symphony_Of_The_Night_.28Castlevania_9.29|Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.]]

Because it's important to several settings and RPG systems, particularly ones that are high-profile or relevant to /tg/, we have a religion article. Let's try and keep it focused on the directly-related-to-/tg/ stuff and not descend into the pure [[skub]] that can arise in discussions of real-life religions, okay?

==Definition of Religion==
Almost since the inception of the term, scholars have failed to agree on a definition of religion. While there are some belief systems that always count as religions, some have applied the term to various things such as political ideologies, or groups when they reach a certain point. There are however two general definition systems: the sociological/functional and the phenomenological/philosophical.

The two most widely accepted are:
* "a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things, that is to say things set apart and forbidden - beliefs and practices which unite into one single moral community called a church, all those who adhere to them."
* "a comprehensive worldview or 'metaphysical moral vision' that is accepted as binding because it is held to be in itself basically true and just even if all dimensions of it cannot be either fully confirmed or refuted".

As stated before, one common element that every religion which fits the criteria has is humanity's relation to supernatural forces, as all of them have at least one [[God|god]] and/or an afterlife even where there are exceptions; Buddhism doesn't have any gods but has afterlives, and Taoism doesn't have an afterlife but does have a pantheistic concept of a god as a supernatural force.

Like other terms for heavily [[SJW|debated]] [[communism|subjects]], religion and religious have also been used as insults or Snarl Words in social and political discussions (especially from the 20th century and onwards) to ridicule groups openly promoting something the user disagrees with. This snarl creates a caricature of the group to smear them by association with the worst excesses/negative stereotypes of real-world religious people (like being too preachy, judgmental, irrational, hypocritical, or pressuring everyone to convert).

==Religion vs. Mythology==
While [[Mythology|mythologies]] aren't religions in and of themselves, every religion has a mythology. While mythologies are merely the accounts of supernatural events, religions also have several criteria such as how life should be lived, what happens to a person after death and humanity's relation to the supernatural. [[Skub|Whatever the source]], the mythology almost always predates the religion. As a result, especially since the Fantasy genre deals in supernatural beings and forces, most if not all fantasy settings have religions. Science fiction does to a lesser degree, mostly because during the Golden Age of sci-fi empiricists and secular humanists were attracted to the genre and their views often seeped into their stories. Despite this, given that most real-life societies have had religions playing a role in or since their founding, religions are still found in sci-fi.

Religions involves belief systems and practices, where an adherent can call upon the power/being the religion is focused on to give them aid in [[cleric|various]] [[Paladin|ways]], depending at the very least on the religion and the task in question. Given that religions are about people's place in the world, how it was made, ideas on how life should be lived and what happens after death, they have major implications for societies. Given that people can become [[Exarch|dangerously single-minded]] about a cause, people can be become extremists about their religion, regardless of the fact that [[Heironeous|some]] are more benevolent than [[Asmodeus|others]] and in numerous cases even [[Heresy|if it involves going against the religion's teachings]]; in conjunction with the above this means religious conflicts can become widespread, long-lasting, cause carnage and also involve other elements such as politics.

==Role in Society==
A person's belief (for or against) any or all religions is a major factor in their worldview, and as such often serves as the undercurrent for all others. This is because this belief shapes people's views on the big things such as the purpose of life, how life should be lived in relation to oneself and others and what happens to people after they die. On the upside, this often leads to teachings with the goal of unity, peace, charity and co-operation as per the teachings of most religions, some of which are adapted by or also found among non-religious systems. On the downside, this can lead to clashes over how the people involved do the will of whichever beings or forces they follow, which religion should be followed or whether or not people should follow a god or religion at all. This can involve arguments and factionalizing, or in some cases worse things like pogroms and wars. Since they are an overarching and fairly common element in cultures, they often appear or are referenced in fiction.

The most common religious belief systems are the Abrahamic family of religions (primarily Judaism, Christianity and Islam) which are Monotheistic (belief in a singular God) and share many common elements and root, with - at the time this was written - Christianity being the most followed religion globally.

Within the last few centuries, particularly due to events such as the French Revolution, there has also been a significant amount of anti-religious sentiment, with those who hold this view considering religion at best redundant and at worst destructive (beyond historical grievances with specific groups within religions, reasons for this view and whether or not those arguments have any merit, shall not be discussed here). Interestingly, numerous tyrannical regimes have tried to restrict or stamp out religions, as most religions teach at least some benevolence, and tyrants don't like being answerable to anyone. Some nations have just tried to block specific religions. Several nations have tried to get rid of religion altogether, albeit with horrifying [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists results] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge_rule_of_Cambodia#Religious_communities each] time; even at best they sidegrade from one set of problems to another.

==How this impacts /tg/==
A few major ways:

* There are three major "modes" of /tg/ settings and related fictions:
*# The purely functional. Compared to the two types of writers found below, these writers are usually just attempting to model their work after real-world [[Mythology]] and are frequently attempting to keep their views of Religion separate from their work. Frequently comes in one of two subspecies:
*#* The [[Standard Fantasy Setting]] default: The world is ruled by an ordinary polytheistic pantheon, usually close to some admixture of Norse and Greek mythologies. Some of them also have a Top God - one more powerful than all the others and maybe the in-universe creator of everything - who is mostly hands-off in cosmic affairs. The gods of these religions tend to focus on specific areas (gods of [[Paladin|Justice]] and [[Druid|Nature]] are common, for subtly obvious reasons) and frequently want their followers to propagate or promote these things.
*#* The kind of setting they wanted to make dictated the nature of the divine. For example, in [[Exalted]] just about all the figures anybody would call a "God" (besides the Exalted) are Useless, because the Exalted (which includes the Player Characters) are supposed to be the Most Important People in the world, to go with the main theme of the setting for the PCs: "You can do '''almost anything''', except ''avoid the consequences of being the one who did that anything''".
*# There are several writers of Science Fiction and Fantasy that are of the opinion "Religion Is Bad". This is more common in Sci-Fi than fantasy because the focus on science appeals to the naturalist, empiricist and/or humanist worldview of writers who have it, with the supernatural being seen as an obstacle to that; personal issues of the author such as grievance or prejudice can also play a role, but that's case-by-case and a major can of worms. As a result those writers model their fictional religions on the - occasionally exaggerated - worst excesses of real world religious people and lift imagery from those religions; popular targets are Christianity, Islam, the Aztec and - in recent history - Scientology. This comes in flavors of either "The Gods Don't Exist", "The Gods are Incompetent" (more on that below) or "The Gods are all Evil".
*# There are also quite a few sincerely religious Science Fiction and Fantasy writers (usually Christian, but not always). These authors usually put more thought into their fictional religion plus its central figure (although they have a tendency to go all "Crystal Dragon Jesus"), and try and have it be at least a somewhat good influence, although religious institutions and leaders are usually hit-and-miss affairs.
* If a work has multiple writers, (as frequently happens with RPG and Wargame settings, and quite a few popular SciFi/Fantasy ones as well) there's a tendency for the writers to try and pull the setting into one of the other two "modes" depending on their views. This leads to the theme changing from one side to the other as the story progresses (such as [[World of Warcraft|the spate of retcons to the cosmology of the Warcraft universe]]), or swinging back and forth between them.
* Doing the "The Gods are Incompetent" thing (the similar but different "The Gods are Insane", "The Gods Are Assholes" and "The Gods Don't Actually Do Anything" routes also falls under this umbrella) can go into any of the three; in a sincere monotheist's (such as Christian) work, it can be a "Take That" to polytheistic religions; in a "Religion is Bad" atheist's, it can be one to religion in general; in a Buddhist-influenced work, it can be a part of the whole "even the Gods are tied up in the Wheel of Karma" concept; and, even if the author is not pushing any religious message in any way, there's a neutral, plot-structural reason to go "Incompetent Gods": it can make the adventurers the Most Competent People Available.
* [[Urban Fantasy]] writers are a special case, since almost all Urban Fantasy is set in something that might be called "the real world with a twist", with all the usual political trouble that implies. Usually, they take one of two routes. The first is "there are many possible explanations" and vague things up as much as possible (Faith being the power that repels [[Vampire]]s rather than than a cross having any actual connection to a deity is a popular one). The second (which is rarer outside of Cosmic Horror) is straight up [[Edgy|atheistic/"Religion is Bad"]] [[Imperial Truth|propaganda]], and in practice the writer often has an axe to grind against a specific religion (almost always the popular targets listed above). Some Urban Fantasy works with a clear correct religion exist thanks to the above mentioned sincerely religious authors, which are typically [[Chick Tracts|barely veiled proselytizing]] or [[Twilight|just straight up terrible]], though [[Monster Hunter International|there are some good ones]].
** Cosmic horror can also fall under the Urban Fantasy umbrella, and it blends the "Gods Don't Exist" or "Gods are Evil" route into "The Gods are actually Incomprehensible and Destructive Aliens". This also has the side effect of making it a popular choice for atheistic tracts (even Lovecraft himself was an anti-religious materialist).

Further, note the "Religion is Bad" and "Religion is Good" brigades will be involved in arguments over the relative morality or "goodness" of various factions and the accuracy of any messages a writer presents.

==Examples of /tg/ connected fictional religions==
* The [[Imperial Truth]]/[[Imperial Cult|Cult]] in [[Warhammer 40,000]] manages to mix features of atheism, Catholicism, and generic fanaticism and xenophobia. Religiosity is mostly explored with humans and no real religions are used (since the Emperor [[The Last Church|violently purged them and those who followed them]] - except for maybe [[Ollanius Pius|one Catholic Perpetual]], and this all happened before [[Chaos]] entered the picture...). As for the other major factions;
** All Greenskins worship Gork and Mork (jury's out on whether the [[Gretchin Revolutionary Committee]] do), but are too disorganized to have anything like a formal religion, though they do make effigies of Gork and Mork and call on them.
** The T'au creed "The Greater Good" is a philosophy that allows religiosity as long as it doesn't clash with the Greater Good, but if there's a clash The Greater Good is always given priority over a religion.
** The Eldar Pantheon's religious practices aren't fleshed out save for those of Cegorach and Khaine, via the Harlequins and Aspect Warriors. Apart form these two, with most of their gods out of commission, most Eldar religious worship is of a deistic bent. The new faith around Ynnead, the Ynnari, have yet to establish teachings or rituals. As for the rest of the Eldar race, the Corsairs are all over the place, the Dark Eldar are irreligious for the most part (the popular exception are the [[Incubi]] who hold [[Khaine]] in high regard) and there's rumors of Chaos Eldar.
** While the Necrontyr had religions before certain [[C'tan|star entities]] [[Necrons|roboticizied them]], those aren't fleshed out or detailed. Its also heavily implied the C'tan co-opted the Necrontyr religion beforehand, with the change to Necrons taking the higher though processes of most of them. Any Necrons with any comprehension of faith and religiosity either worship the C'tan or have become irreligious.
** Tyranids have some concept of religiosity, as seen with propagating [[Genestealer]] cults and the Deathleaper understanding the concept of martyrdom, but otherwise display no interest or regard for anything other than their all-consuming extra-galactic hunger.
* Among Dungeons and Dragons settings, [[Planescape]], [[Eberron]], and [[Pathfinder]] are notable for having some coherent things that could be called "Religions", rather then the usual generic Pantheism.
** Most of Planescape's Factions effectively count as religions, to the point they can produce [[Cleric]]s ([[Planescape: Torment#Fall-From-Grace|Atheist ones at that]]). Yes, even the Athar. (Perhaps ''especially'' the Athar.)
** Half of Eberron's religions aren't worship of deities. The [[Blood of Vol]] seeks to unlock the divinity within one's self and rejects the gods (if they even exist) and the [[Path of Inspiration]] seeks to improve their next reincarnation. The Undying Court worships not gods but their undead ancestors that make up their government. The [[Path of Light]], [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Becoming_God|Becoming God]] and [[Warforged_Mysteries#The_Reforged|Reforged]] all seek to ''create'' a deity. Even some interpretations of the [[Sovereign Host]], like the one most common among dragons, don't worship them as deities. Due to the way divine casting works in Eberron, all of these can produce divine casters.
** There's a handful of religions on [[Golarion]] that aren't merely worship of pantheons. The most prominent (read: Actually has mechanical support) is the [[Prophecies of Kalistrade]], which is basically fantasy [[Star Trek|Ferengi]].
* [[D20 Modern]]'s [[Urban Arcana]], unusually for urban fantasy, has D&D deities bleed into reality alongside the monsters. You are still able to play a <s>cleric</s> "acolyte" of any real world deity despite this.
* [[Star Wars]] is inconsistent on if the [[The Force]] is a religion. The Jedi and the Sith ''could'' both be considered religions as they are considered monastic, but mix in several other traits such as being meritocratic (Jedi) and kraterocratic (Sith) and Lucas himself has axed at least one prototyped book for portraying them too much as a religion. It's also notable that the Sith were former Jedi who left the Jedi path for several reasons including [[Heresy|disagreements over the teachings of that creed]]. Aside from that, religion is nearly always a non-human tradition, something noted in a culture's historical background and never seen implying its extinction, or a scam. The religiously linked "damn" and "hell" are the two real world swear words that exist in-universe, purely because Han Solo used them in the films, and some concept of an "angel" exists because a young Anakin told Padme about them in the prequel trilogy films.
** There are rare exceptions where a religion is fleshed out and explored, and the writing goes various directions for better or worse. A notable example is the aggressive polytheistic religion of the antagonistic Yuuzhan Vong from the EU (which the story gradually revealed was long ago perverted from benevolent roots, and this perverted form takes a few cues from Islam and Aztec mythology).
* Very large books could be written about religion and [[World of Darkness]]/Chronicles of Darkness. We'll just cover a few highlights:
** From [[Vampire: The Requiem]], there's the the Lancea et Sanctum, which might be best described as "Christianity for Vampires", and the Circle of the Crone, which is "Pagan Vampires". Both have Vampire miracles on tap (pun intended).
** [[Hunter: The Vigil]] has various religious organizations among the Compacts and Conspiracies.
** [[Mage: The Ascension]] has various religious Traditions, portrayed in that highly-stereotypical and highly-depending-on-the-author way typical of old WoD.

==See also==
* [[Mythology]]

[[Category:Not related]]
[[Category:History]]

SJW

2020-03-24T15:52:32Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:187:B744:68E8:D674: /* ...so why is this a big deal again? */

{{flamewar}}
{{fail}}
{{heresy}}
{{cleanup}}
{{delete|This is possibly the biggest lightning rod of shitposts on the site, so either permanently protect this accursed thing or make it so nobody can blather on about it ever again.}}
{{Topquote|The only way to win is to not read the crazy, and just fap and/or shlick to the pictures.|[[/d/]]}}
{{Topquote|People love to pretend they're offended.|Matt Groening}}
{{Topquote|Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster.|Friedrich Nietzsche}}

== Meaning ==
[[Skub]]'s final form.

'''SJW''' stands for '''Social Justice Warrior''', a term originated in the late '90s to mid-2000's, where it was originally more neutral and meant to refer to ardent or outspoken advocates of social change, usually for 'furthering' civil rights. This generally meant someone who demanded that all races, classes, genders, sexuality, and other groups (with members who can't leave voluntarily) be represented in media and treated with equal respect.

Nowadays, it has a less-than-savory connotation, especially to people within 4chan (''especially'' [[/pol/]] and /v/ - the lattermost is a partial by-product of the GamerGate shenanigans). The modern usage of SJW refers largely to people who demand that media and society be inclusive and inoffensive (in practice, usually only to groups said SJW is a part of and those whose beliefs align with them) before all else, basically trying to police all media and, by proxy, the rest of society.

SJWs also tend to chuck that aforementioned respect out the airlock as they prioritize looking and feeling "good" over actually doing good, like most zealots. They frequently employ simplistic and/or ahistorical analysis that could wring both tears and rage from any fa/tg/uy's inner history buff (and not just the ones with military vehicle fetishes, either). Such piping hot takes also open them up to "easy debunking" - often by a mix of opportunists looking for an easy 'gotcha', /pol/acks looking for an easy triggering or (perhaps most rarely) people who actually studied their shit, with bonus points if said people are left of center and/or themselves part of said minorities on whose behalf the SJWs pull this shit, even as they speak over them. Of course, the debunking may itself be poorly researched - most political discussions set the bar amazingly low, if you hadn't guessed.

In short, it's associated with activists that advocate a a view of progressive societal change that non-progressives and sometimes even progressive groups, like feminists and minority activists, perceive to be ostracizing, harmful or unnecessary. (That this is mostly subjective is why the definition is so [[skub|contentious]] to begin with.)

Expect Social Justice Warriors to show up or at least be mentioned anytime some combination of the following occurs:

*A) a popular figure does or says something considered offensive, whether legitimately so or otherwise;
*B) some asshole's trying to shut up people they're being rude to;
*C) someone is ''harmlessly'' being a bit less politically correct than people want them to;
*D) someone is being ''far less'' politically correct than the situation warrants; or
*E) there isn't enough presentation in a work for ethno-social groups that are already infinitesimal to begin with.

On that note, feel free to play a drinking game where you take a shot each time [[Nazi|Godwin's Law]] is invoked, and be sure to bid your liver farewell before hand.

Expect the affected thread and any other nearby discussion to be derailed in short order; this is becoming more and more frequent on /tg/ lately as hobbies like [[Magic: The Gathering|MTG]] and [[Warhammer 40k]] are being subjected to changes that are viewed as "progressive" and generate unholy waves of skub. This often appears in the forms of users being accused of bigotry for either not checking off enough "oppressed minority" checkboxes in character creation, or else portraying certain groups too positively. The sources are generally either the usual crowd of trolls and shit stirrers, or else actual morons who want to show off their 'good guy' badges - aka virtue signalling - and miss the point of their ideals entirely. Naturally, most people who hold similar views prefer to voice them only when appropriate to do so, and outside of the "radical" fringe, they differ from the average fa/tg/uy only by the presence of a few things they think tabletop games could be better at doing.

This can and does often lead to rifts in communities, fanbases and franchises, with creators (most often independent ones) facing harassment and death threats, and any legitimate criticisms are almost immediately lost in the mix of mob mentality - just like most of the internet.

There are plenty of examples, but the average fa/tg/uy is unlikely to care about most of them outside of the few relevant ones discussed further below.

== ...so why is this a big deal again? ==
The crux of the problem is that SJWs act as "moral guardians" to popular culture. Previous moral panics, such as the hysteria surrounding hip-hop, rock music and (most relevantly) tabletop games [[Dungeons & Dragons]] ever since each medium's creation, were driven by people who claimed to be protecting their children from the "evils" within certain works, as well as seeing enemies under every rock or choosing to die on hills that are ultimately of no consequence.

To use pen-and-paper RPGs as an example, the mostly-Christian right-wingers of the late 70s believed them to be [[Heresy|a gateway to devil worship and eternal damnation]] because of a misunderstanding. Game developers lifted elements from real-life occultism and black magic practices for themes and stories, which was mistaken for trying to promote these practices, despite Gygax being a known Jehovah's Witness. The response to this huge outcry mostly consisted of renaming or remodeling a bunch of shit (e.g. [[demon]]s and [[devil]]s were now Tanar'ri and Baatezu and in-universe occult symbols were redesigned). More concerning were a few murders and suicides by known players; given that the game wasn't as high-profile and these people were considered the face of it by some groups, these tragic events nearly damned the games by association.

This sounds ridiculous in hindsight, but the massive uproar back then was a real threat to the survival of the fledgling RPG genre, with Dungeons & Dragons foremost among the accused. For more details on that sad, stupid time, see [[Satanic Panic]].

Where most moral panics in America are often attributed and traced back said older outspoken conservative Christians, with SJWs it's different - they are generally younger, left-leaning, affiliated with new-age religions if not staunchly anti-religious or atheist, and come from that lefty-hippie background of acceptance and inclusiveness. Many have turned from simply promoting acceptance of varied interests, lifestyles, and hobbies to policing them for proper behavior and raising hell when they find something they don't like. Maybe it's too objectifying, maybe it's not inclusive or diverse enough, maybe it portrays a group they disagree with in too positive a manner; either way, it is promoting bigotry and bad behavior and must be changed accordingly. Some extreme SJWs even become bigots themselves, but with different groups targeted and at times more of a "tit for tat" approach.

For the modern SJW, replace the religious issues with socio-political ones, pick a random issue somewhere in the Left (sometimes Far Left) using an advocacy dartboard, and you can find someone who is ready and willing to start petitions, run boycotts, and send death threats to the creators of Your Favorite ThingTM.

While there are many key differences, they've joined the ranks of still-existing moral guardians before them through a combination of sheer overzealousness, hatred of particular groups, the usual co-opting by corporations who use their ideologies as a new way to promote their brands and the plentiful organizations and other third parties willing to fund attention-grabbing political actions of varying effectiveness to whatever ends they may desire, whether it be for fame, name or revenge.

That said, compared to the Satanic Panic, any /tg/-related controversies that have occurred since then are hardly a blip on the radar (thankfully so) and are mostly centered around sporadic attempts at pandering by game developers trying to milk what is, to them, a new demographic.

==Further Relevance to /tg/ ==
[[File:SJW in WOTC Staff.png|thumb|right|300px|Typical SJW delusions, seeing people who hate women in places where there are none, while simultaneously implying women are idiots.]]
While SJWs mostly focus on comics, movies and video games, they've found relatively little traction on tabletop games - it's widely considered more obscure in comparison to other forms of media, thus not warranting scrutiny OR continued interest to the SJW's inner hipster. Movies are delivered as a finished product that usually cannot be tampered with, so they have to worry more about what's given to them. [[/v/|Video games]] can sometimes be modded to some extent, but are usually more at the mercy of its creators.

However, as with any game that allows GMs and their players to [[Homebrew|make up their own shit and tailor the rules and setting to their own goddamn pleasure]], the consumers are the arbiters of what is canon or relevant in their private sessions; [[Games Workshop|the companies]] simply provide the setting these sessions take place within. The 'worst' a given fa/tg/uy has to worry about is fits being thrown over given models, [[White Wolf|disingenuous pandering]] [[Vampire: The Masquerade|that's often mandated by higher-ups]] (sometimes enforced by devs and writers), and a loss in quality of [[Black Library|franchise fiction]] (as if [[C.S. Goto|a ton of]] [[Matt Ward|terrible franchise fiction]] isn't already out there). More on that later, though.

Any other debates and criticisms surrounding the medium are either nearly as old as the genre itself, or else commonplace enough that it's not even exclusive to the genre anymore. [[-4 STR]] is something of an exception in this regard, given that the term originated with tabletop itself, and there has also been [[Sociopathic diplomancer gets shut the fuck down|at least one tale of an encounter with someone]] who would very much fit the stereotype. This hasn't stopped them from ''trying'', however, to the point where numerous people in high-level positions in the development of not only [[Dungeons & Dragons]], but [[Pathfinder]], are viewed as part of the same ideological mindset, and supposedly believe that THE problem with D&D, is, of course, the fanbase itself.

While this might seem to hold water due to the nature of tabletop and PnP games, more astute fa/tg/uys and ca/tg/irls might have already noticed the aforementioned logical fallacy with this: [[/tg/|traditional gaming]] is fundamentally an insular hobby populated predominantly by its fans, who consist of a much wider spectrum of people than stereotypes dictate. Trying to ''"mandate"'' inclusiveness and force the hobby to fit a completely different audience who has no real interest (key words) is equal to spraying napalm to put out a fire.

Oldfags can only chuckle to themselves; the neckbeards of old saw people try to demonize or similarly alter their hobbies for [[Gary Gygax]]'s entire lifetime, and know that ultimately, this crap is destined to fail just as hard as previous attempts to kill their favorite hobbies off. In turn, many gamers and self-styled movie buffs who don't understand the "players make the rules" aspect of tabletop thus fail to understand the futility of forcing roleplaying fa/tg/uys to join a "fight" that cannot threaten their fun, even in spite of the stereotype of roleplayers who define themselves solely by their hobby.

The main reason this article exists at all is to detail the perceived threat to the hobby that defines the board and (more often) the annoyance caused by forcing unrelated political discussions on a board of people who are ''ideally'' just trying to play some damn games or otherwise mind their business.

Y'know, like most of the internet.

===SJWs and WH40k===
Now, you may hear complaints about wargaming, and how it has too much [[Imperium of Man|imperialism, war crimes]], [[Exterminatus|genocide]], [[Ecclesiarchy|religious extremism]], [[Inquisition|xenophobia, abduction]], [[Cadian Shock Troops|child soldiers]], [[Daemonculaba|injury and death of minors]], [[Penitent Engine|religious mind-rape driven war machines]], [[Slaanesh|rape, drug abuse, sexual exploitation]], [[Warp|supernatural horror]], etc. etc. While not mentioned by name, you can imagine those complaints had [[Warhammer 40,000|a particular franchise in mind]]. Naturally, you can also imagine the lengths they went to in order to [[Derp|completely ignore]] [[Grimdark|the entire air of black vs. black morality within the setting itself]] (with shades of super-dark grey if you're feeling [[Salamanders|gene]][[Tau|rous]]).

The three most common complaints about Warhammer 40,000 are usually: the absence of [[Female Space Marines]]; the [[Sisters of Battle]] having boob plates; and - tied for third - how 40k models and art seldom depicted non-Sisters of Battle women and non-white humans, despite lore containing multiple, numerous easily-found examples to the contrary.

Here is a handy quick-list of refutations, to make everyone's lives a little easier:

#Warhammer 40,000 originated as an ironic parody of hard-right authoritarianism, born out of the explosion of progressive UK Sci-Fi and Fantasy that erupted as a reaction to [[Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka|Margaret Thatcher]]'s policies of moral regulation and strong executive power (as well as all the other shit that happened in then-living memory during the 20th Century). Warhammer 40k took the piss out of the conservative UK government in the same way ''2000AD'' did, via satire and cautionary tales - this context has been lost over time with the growing popularity of the game, the growth of the company itself, and the fact that the right-leaning political climate being satirized is no longer dominant in the UK. The more current political climate is, ultimately, a different beast all its own.
#Anyone who actually reads the fluff knows that the Imperium as a body doesn't care about sex or race on that level, because the encroaching forces of [[grimdark]] make any form of discrimination impractical. Women and other minorities regularly participate in every level of Imperial society. The lack of female models is a semi-regular issue that ends up at the feet of GW, who already get enough shit from pearl-clutching moral guardians about [[Hot Chicks|Sisters Repentia and Daemonettes]] to generally want to avoid gender controversy and making "redundant" models. [[Mutant|The discrimination that ''does'' happen in the Imperium]] has some credible backing, in that the Imperium is an empire of semi-justified zealots: mutation is a common symptom of exposure to [[Chaos]] or [[Genestealer|other very bad things,]] so they figure it's best to not take chances.
#:Female Space Marines also have a well-defined fluff reason for not existing: recent lore stated there were in-universe attempts that failed badly enough to warrant discontinuing them. And of the section of the actual playerbase that clamors for female Marines, you can guess how many do so [[Rule 63|with impure intent.]] At any rate, important characters have a higher percentage of female or LBGTQ+ representation than expendable meatgrinder characters. This goes for both old characters like Yarrick (revealed to be gay) and new characters like Arch Magos Exasus (who is non-binary).
#Until recently, GW was also [[Commorragh Slaves|terrible at sculpting female characters in most cases]]; the Sisters of Battle were a rare exception for years, and that's likely ''because'' they're just power-armored humans with boobplate.
#GW so rarely listened to their own customers that complaining wouldn't have changed shit no matter how obvious the problem was. Nowadays there is a MUCH better chance for more fan-interaction, but there you go: anyone looking for change should be taking it up with GW, not Warhammer fans.
#When it comes to racial representation, they've previously said that their idea was for humanity in 40k to be as ethnically and physically diverse as they are across Earth in real-life. GW said the reason for having majority white people in the art was because the early art teams were small and made art of what they knew (the UK is still populated by 95% white people, although interestingly where GW is in Nottingham is nowadays only about 65% white), and this pattern just became an unthinking habit. This is typical of a lot of fantasy work, which is often based on history or mythology from Europe or Asia where lighter skin colors are believed more common. While it is discriminatory, it's 'unconscious bigotry' as opposed to GW being actively malicious. [[Image:5zft MoOz3I.jpg|thumb|right|200px|It begins!]]
#Every Warhammer Fantasy and 40k player knows that GW is simply [[End Times|bad]] [[Abaddon|at]] [[Matt Ward|making]] [[C.S. Goto|writing]] [[Storm of Chaos|decisions]]. Asking for well-written ''anyone'' from GW is like praying for a miracle. Furthermore, some of the most interesting characters in Fantasy were female, and got written out of canon as the years went on, so best believe the fans were already outraged over that.

If you read GW's Annual report: 2015-16, you'll find there were complaints about most of the staff being male even back then. To GW's credit, they answered: "The Company does not consider that diversity can be best achieved by establishing specific quotas and targets and appointments will continue to be made based on merit." (p. 15, if you're bored enough to check). That kinda contradicts with the "principle of boardroom diversity, which was first introduced into the Code in June 2010" mentioned on the same page, but you get it.

On the other hand, it should be noted that GW has been somewhat 'addressing' things, in [[Age of Sigmar]] anyway; several human models have non-white skin tones in their official paint jobs (and most of them look laughable with it, as they're rocking classical European features. Painting grizzly white doesn't make it a polar bear, you know), the first unhelmed Sigmarine is black, there's more than one model for a Sigmarine woman, and in the early days of AoS, the most promoted faction other than Sigmarines and Khorne was the mostly female [[Sylvaneth]] led by [[Everqueen|Alarielle the Everqueen]]. Meanwhile, [https://spikeybits.com/2017/10/female-representation-40k.html GW has promised on social media to "improve female representation" in 40k], specifically referring to reducing "boob-plate" in the miniature line and artwork (which may have factored into the decision to cover up the Sister Repentia in 8th edition).

That said, it isn't all rosy of course; [[Age of Sigmar|Age of Smegmar]] 2e has a female Stormcast Eternal with warning-coloration hair done up in a [https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Trigglypuff Trigglypuff-tier] mohawk on the front cover of the BRB, though that might not be anything other than garish visual design - the Daughters of Khaine ''could'' also be viewed as a caricature of radical feminists, probably because they're [[Drow]] with the serial numbers filed of. On the 40k side, [[Gav Thorpe]] wrote a recent book, ''Imperator: Wrath of the Omnissiah'', with a Magos who "does not identify as male or female". While this makes some sense - the Mechanicus shuns the flesh, which would presumably include gender roles - it generated a good amount of [[skub]] due to this new gender dynamic, the use of recently invented gender pronouns, how they fit into the universe, and whether or not this written in an attempt to pander to SJWs or a sign that Gav Thorpe has become one. It should be noted that, like many GW/Black Library writers, Gav Thorpe's content is by no means 100% great reads, and this might just be a case of him finding a character interesting, political views aside, and writing them very badly.

==What do???==

'''''Nothing.'''''

It's your hobby, and at day's end, any changes you make to doing what you love and loving what you do should be ultimately ''your'' decision. Don't care so much about what other people think, let alone some fanbrats and/or political brainlets who probably don't even give a shit about it to begin with. Anyone who DOES care enough about diverse characters and settings will eventually take matters into their own hands and [[Homebrew|brew some up]] [[Get shit done|themselves]], as they should. Half the fun of Warhammer is [[Your dudes|making your armies your own]] anyway, like most tabletop games, so why wait for GW to change?

The ''wrong'' response (and this is almost always true, by the way), is to insult the fans for liking something they don't like. But hey, whatchagonnado? "Pretending to be offended" can cut '''both''' ways, and complaining about people liking something you don't like is [[Twilight|almost]] [[Drizzt|as]] [[Ironclaw|popular]] [[The End Times|here]] as [[Grognard|complaining about people ''not'' liking something you love]]. And as long as someone makes their dudes "wrong," [[That Guy|''someone'']] will always be yelling.

Yet again, ''like most of the internet.''

So weigh your options and pick your battles wisely, because God knows these chucklefucks won't.

==Do They Have a Point?==
While the term represents legitimate grievances and real issues, as hinted earlier "SJW" has also seen use as a snarl word by people on the right to shut down arguments, regardless of any merit they might have. This snarl creates a crude caricature of modern leftists to smear a rather large body of people (e.g. lumping said leftists with liberals, even though not all liberals are left-wing and may participate in said smears themselves), misrepresenting any position left of the "snarler" as a threat to any cultural aspect you can think of (like say, entertainment and gaming). Sometimes it doesn't matter if the SJWs in question (or their supposed position) are even partly real, or just convenient caricatures up to and including the most blatant trolls. This use of the term is especially true of those on the [[/pol/]] side when they don't want to scare the normies - or at least let the caricatures do the work for them. After all, who's gonna pay attention to someone when they or their views are successfully cast as "[[That Guy|rocking the boat?]]"

Some fiction ''does'' have problematic elements, and all fiction has a certain degree of subtext woven into it (intentionally or not) by its creators and/or the general worldview of the day. For example, in a lot of 1950s fiction, female characters would usually be sidelined to supporting roles such as home keeper, while a male protagonist would be the guy who took charge and get shit done - even in a science fiction setting where many futurists would have speculated that women would take a greater active role in future society. Most times, writers consider the way things are done where they're from to be the way things "should" be, unless they're exploring a "what if" scenario or criticism of an aspect of their society. Tropes built around the worldview of a generation persist into the next and often serve as the foundation for that generation's works - it's part of human nature for people to write what they know, take their worldview for granted and/or follow the leader without considering the implications.

Though such tropes ''can'' serve as useful indicators of the author's beliefs and/or the cultural zeitgeist, many of these tropes also do not age well, becoming discredited in some fashion as society and attitudes towards history change over time; a fair number of MST3K episodes snark at this. Understanding how this process works, and the ramifications thereof, is a perfectly valid approach to identify problematic matters and address them in future works. This has far more practical applications than trying to be as inoffensive as possible merely for the sake of it, which often does the subject matter(s) a disservice - it is frequently an exercise in futility, and besides that, context is key. One series having [[Fantasy Armor|metal bikini armor]] is not a problem (especially if its general tone is tongue firmly in cheek), but when that becomes the norm even in more serious works, especially without justification, then it's become an issue.

Furthermore, acknowledging problematic elements in a work is not the same as a condemnation of its quality or wanting it censored because of that (usually) comparatively small element - this assumption is a classic Hanlon's Razor scenario, assuming malice where at worst stupidity may exist. The presence of certain views or "biases" in a work doesn't mean that the modern reader will instantly like or adopt said views. No one is immune to propaganda, but reading Atlas Shrugged doesn't automatically make you an individualist; being a fan of the Imperium of Man doesn't make you a militaristic theocracy advocate, reading The Lord of the Rings does not automatically make you a monarchist, and so on. Aside from tarring all people with the same brush as being easily impressionable morons, that's mostly putting the cart before the horse and attacking symptoms rather than the actual cause, i.e. what would lead someone to seek reinforcement of that particular worldview via reading or producing fiction, for instance - [[Skub|a nuanced topic that would take up a page on its own and isn't likely to be done real justice here]].

There are numerous reasons why there's "pandering" in /tg/ media, beyond the points discussed above. For one, many companies want to broaden their consumer base by taking in new demographics. As the world gets interconnected and as society becomes more diverse, there is an increasing demand by people who aren't heterosexual white men to see people who aren't heterosexual white men in Western media, be it as the hero, getting the girl/guy, or "just" being more than a sidekick (matters of representation and diversity in non-Western media - such as China's film industry or India's Bollywood - and related questions of double standards in the complaints are [[Skub|something that would warrant several paragraphs, if not their own page]]). Putting all your eggs in the established core demographic basket can be as disastrous as trying to appeal to a new demographic at the expense of that initial base (AKA "biting the hand that feeds you"). For example, the former was a contributing factor in the [[/co/|Comics Crash of 1996]], focusing too much on the established fanbase at the expense of bringing in new ones by (for example) abandoning magazine stands for comic stores, only to lose it all when they failed to appeal successfully to either while driving much of that old fanbase away.

The 'threat' to any given body of work, much less works within the domain of our hobbby, does not lie merely in conflicts between people with different political views, but more often in foolish mass-marketing mandates. And when those politics themselves become mass-marketed, the parasitic corporate practices it enables, along with framing the matter as one of a dichotomous nature - be it unintentionally, actively, dishonestly, and/or otherwise - provides further ammo to the "fringe" ideologues involved, supporters and detractors alike, that they may continue their never ending game of philosophical sportsball, and only the most short-sighted and/or fanatical sorts, especially "SJWs", consider that to be a good result.

Thankfully, some solutions are straightforward; there is absolutely no reason that you could not make the the Inquisitor in your Warhammer 40,000 campaign black. In the typical Tolkien-knockoff fantasy settings, you can include a few black characters, and the bare minimum requirement is a sentence to the effect of "their parents were from a distant land where humans look a bit different" (though Tolkien himself had ethnic diversity among humanity in his setting; the Drúedain people of LotR were non-white and opposed Sauron, while there were those among the Free Peoples who knowingly or unknowingly aided Sauron). Population dynamics, such as the oft-cited 1:1 ratio of male-to-female, suggest that there needs to be a pretty good reason NOT have a mix of characters (such as an epidemic that only effects males or females). The lack of LGBTQ+ people is often a point of contention, as it is very difficult to calculate the actual number in any population, given the inherent dangers in certain regions and the vagueness of personal gender/sexual identification. Adding said characters if they're written well and fit the story is, in general, a positive and just good business, especially for those who are transparent about the reasoning behind their works.

The problems arise with executives and other figureheads who don't know any better: some only care about lining their own pockets, and engage in the usual out-of-touch appealing to what the kids are into today without understanding the how and why of it; others fail to distinguish between diversity and tokenism as a result of push an agenda-based quota; and still others use the work to push their views and beliefs onto others, the latter two groups ignoring that their franchises are sold to people and not reductive demographic abstractions. Then there are the marketers and PR representatives who encourage this behavior in the vain hope that "new demographics" will eat it up no matter what; when this is almost inevitably proven wrong, they will double down on the pandering, which alienates those who support the view represented by not giving them what they actually wanted while further souring those who don't endorse said view.

When further combined with the tendency of sensationalist media outlets to lionize or demonize whoever they have to in order to meet their given slant's quota, as well as the presence of astroturfing and other means of manufacturing outrage in support of or against said slants, you have the recipe for a failed market or a doomed franchise at best. In a worst-case scenario, you end up creating a new set of problematic cliches and stereotypes. That the majority of fiction is political in some shape or form '''''does not''''' absolve writers of their responsibility to skillfully and properly handle what, if any, politics they acknowledge, lest we get propaganda masquerading as entertainment - and the groups they're expecting to eat that kind of slop up may very well be the first to notice.

'''TL;DR:''' '''It's complicated.''' Many of the points the SJWs raise aren't incorrect in themselves, ''but'' they are often distorted by extreme proponents and detractors alike to further their respective agendas. Regardless of your stance on the social issues in dispute, keep in mind that it's not black-and-white and that nobody is inherently trying to "destroy" anything, only change it.

== See Also ==
*[[/pol/]] - /pol/ is the largest face of the "alt-right", the yang to the SJW's left-leaning yin... if the analogy works when one side makes a habit of acting scummier as a matter of principle, and often go out of their way to one-up any bad action they see, without the excuse of at least having a good cause to hide behind. They ''pretty much'' run on the same fuel, shot-for-shot, but /pol/ uses skewed far-right principles instead. Exudes a very similar rage to their perceived enemies, but it has a chance of ranging from hilarious, to the pot calling the kettle black, to "[[Edgy|Hitler did nothing wrong]]" (lets be honest, it's mostly the last one these days).

[[Category:Meme]]

SJW

2020-03-24T15:49:25Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:187:B744:68E8:D674: /* ...so why is this a big deal again? */

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{{delete|This is possibly the biggest lightning rod of shitposts on the site, so either permanently protect this accursed thing or make it so nobody can blather on about it ever again.}}
{{Topquote|The only way to win is to not read the crazy, and just fap and/or shlick to the pictures.|[[/d/]]}}
{{Topquote|People love to pretend they're offended.|Matt Groening}}
{{Topquote|Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster.|Friedrich Nietzsche}}

== Meaning ==
[[Skub]]'s final form.

'''SJW''' stands for '''Social Justice Warrior''', a term originated in the late '90s to mid-2000's, where it was originally more neutral and meant to refer to ardent or outspoken advocates of social change, usually for 'furthering' civil rights. This generally meant someone who demanded that all races, classes, genders, sexuality, and other groups (with members who can't leave voluntarily) be represented in media and treated with equal respect.

Nowadays, it has a less-than-savory connotation, especially to people within 4chan (''especially'' [[/pol/]] and /v/ - the lattermost is a partial by-product of the GamerGate shenanigans). The modern usage of SJW refers largely to people who demand that media and society be inclusive and inoffensive (in practice, usually only to groups said SJW is a part of and those whose beliefs align with them) before all else, basically trying to police all media and, by proxy, the rest of society.

SJWs also tend to chuck that aforementioned respect out the airlock as they prioritize looking and feeling "good" over actually doing good, like most zealots. They frequently employ simplistic and/or ahistorical analysis that could wring both tears and rage from any fa/tg/uy's inner history buff (and not just the ones with military vehicle fetishes, either). Such piping hot takes also open them up to "easy debunking" - often by a mix of opportunists looking for an easy 'gotcha', /pol/acks looking for an easy triggering or (perhaps most rarely) people who actually studied their shit, with bonus points if said people are left of center and/or themselves part of said minorities on whose behalf the SJWs pull this shit, even as they speak over them. Of course, the debunking may itself be poorly researched - most political discussions set the bar amazingly low, if you hadn't guessed.

In short, it's associated with activists that advocate a a view of progressive societal change that non-progressives and sometimes even progressive groups, like feminists and minority activists, perceive to be ostracizing, harmful or unnecessary. (That this is mostly subjective is why the definition is so [[skub|contentious]] to begin with.)

Expect Social Justice Warriors to show up or at least be mentioned anytime some combination of the following occurs:

*A) a popular figure does or says something considered offensive, whether legitimately so or otherwise;
*B) some asshole's trying to shut up people they're being rude to;
*C) someone is ''harmlessly'' being a bit less politically correct than people want them to;
*D) someone is being ''far less'' politically correct than the situation warrants; or
*E) there isn't enough presentation in a work for ethno-social groups that are already infinitesimal to begin with.

On that note, feel free to play a drinking game where you take a shot each time [[Nazi|Godwin's Law]] is invoked, and be sure to bid your liver farewell before hand.

Expect the affected thread and any other nearby discussion to be derailed in short order; this is becoming more and more frequent on /tg/ lately as hobbies like [[Magic: The Gathering|MTG]] and [[Warhammer 40k]] are being subjected to changes that are viewed as "progressive" and generate unholy waves of skub. This often appears in the forms of users being accused of bigotry for either not checking off enough "oppressed minority" checkboxes in character creation, or else portraying certain groups too positively. The sources are generally either the usual crowd of trolls and shit stirrers, or else actual morons who want to show off their 'good guy' badges - aka virtue signalling - and miss the point of their ideals entirely. Naturally, most people who hold similar views prefer to voice them only when appropriate to do so, and outside of the "radical" fringe, they differ from the average fa/tg/uy only by the presence of a few things they think tabletop games could be better at doing.

This can and does often lead to rifts in communities, fanbases and franchises, with creators (most often independent ones) facing harassment and death threats, and any legitimate criticisms are almost immediately lost in the mix of mob mentality - just like most of the internet.

There are plenty of examples, but the average fa/tg/uy is unlikely to care about most of them outside of the few relevant ones discussed further below.

== ...so why is this a big deal again? ==
The crux of the problem is that SJWs act as "moral guardians" to popular culture. Previous moral panics, such as the hysteria surrounding hip-hop, rock music and (most relevantly) tabletop games [[Dungeons & Dragons]] ever since each medium's creation, were driven by people who claimed to be protecting their children from the "evils" within certain works, as well as seeing enemies under every rock or choosing to die on hills that are ultimately of no consequence.

To use pen-and-paper RPGs as an example, the mostly-Christian right-wingers of the late 70s believed them to be [[Heresy|a gateway to devil worship and eternal damnation]] because of a misunderstanding. Game developers lifted elements from real-life occultism and black magic practices for themes and stories, which was mistaken for trying to promote these practices, despite Gygax being a known Jehovah's Witness. The response to this huge outcry mostly consisted of renaming or remodeling a bunch of shit (e.g. [[demon]]s and [[devil]]s were now Tanar'ri and Baatezu and in-universe occult symbols were redesigned). More concerning were a few murders and suicides by known players; given that the game wasn't as high-profile and these people were considered the face of it by some groups, these tragic events nearly damned the games by association.

This sounds ridiculous in hindsight, but the massive uproar back then was a real threat to the survival of the fledgling RPG genre, with Dungeons & Dragons foremost among the accused. For more details on that sad, stupid time, see [[Satanic Panic]].

Where most moral panics in America are often attributed and traced back said older outspoken conservative Christians, with SJWs it's different - they are generally younger, left-leaning, affiliated with new-age religions or staunch anti-religious atheism, and come from that lefty-hippie background of acceptance and inclusiveness. Many have turned from simply promoting acceptance of varied interests, lifestyles, and hobbies to policing them for proper behavior and raising hell when they find something they don't like. Maybe it's too objectifying, maybe it's not inclusive or diverse enough, maybe it portrays a group they disagree with in too positive a manner; either way, it is promoting bigotry and bad behavior and must be changed accordingly. Some extreme SJWs even become bigots themselves, but with different groups targeted and at times more of a "tit for tat" approach.

For the modern SJW, replace the religious issues with socio-political ones, pick a random issue somewhere in the Left (sometimes Far Left) using an advocacy dartboard, and you can find someone who is ready and willing to start petitions, run boycotts, and send death threats to the creators of Your Favorite ThingTM.

While there are many key differences, they've joined the ranks of still-existing moral guardians before them through a combination of sheer overzealousness, hatred of particular groups, the usual co-opting by corporations who use their ideologies as a new way to promote their brands and the plentiful organizations and other third parties willing to fund attention-grabbing political actions of varying effectiveness to whatever ends they may desire, whether it be for fame, name or revenge.

That said, compared to the Satanic Panic, any /tg/-related controversies that have occurred since then are hardly a blip on the radar (thankfully so) and are mostly centered around sporadic attempts at pandering by game developers trying to milk what is, to them, a new demographic.

==Further Relevance to /tg/ ==
[[File:SJW in WOTC Staff.png|thumb|right|300px|Typical SJW delusions, seeing people who hate women in places where there are none, while simultaneously implying women are idiots.]]
While SJWs mostly focus on comics, movies and video games, they've found relatively little traction on tabletop games - it's widely considered more obscure in comparison to other forms of media, thus not warranting scrutiny OR continued interest to the SJW's inner hipster. Movies are delivered as a finished product that usually cannot be tampered with, so they have to worry more about what's given to them. [[/v/|Video games]] can sometimes be modded to some extent, but are usually more at the mercy of its creators.

However, as with any game that allows GMs and their players to [[Homebrew|make up their own shit and tailor the rules and setting to their own goddamn pleasure]], the consumers are the arbiters of what is canon or relevant in their private sessions; [[Games Workshop|the companies]] simply provide the setting these sessions take place within. The 'worst' a given fa/tg/uy has to worry about is fits being thrown over given models, [[White Wolf|disingenuous pandering]] [[Vampire: The Masquerade|that's often mandated by higher-ups]] (sometimes enforced by devs and writers), and a loss in quality of [[Black Library|franchise fiction]] (as if [[C.S. Goto|a ton of]] [[Matt Ward|terrible franchise fiction]] isn't already out there). More on that later, though.

Any other debates and criticisms surrounding the medium are either nearly as old as the genre itself, or else commonplace enough that it's not even exclusive to the genre anymore. [[-4 STR]] is something of an exception in this regard, given that the term originated with tabletop itself, and there has also been [[Sociopathic diplomancer gets shut the fuck down|at least one tale of an encounter with someone]] who would very much fit the stereotype. This hasn't stopped them from ''trying'', however, to the point where numerous people in high-level positions in the development of not only [[Dungeons & Dragons]], but [[Pathfinder]], are viewed as part of the same ideological mindset, and supposedly believe that THE problem with D&D, is, of course, the fanbase itself.

While this might seem to hold water due to the nature of tabletop and PnP games, more astute fa/tg/uys and ca/tg/irls might have already noticed the aforementioned logical fallacy with this: [[/tg/|traditional gaming]] is fundamentally an insular hobby populated predominantly by its fans, who consist of a much wider spectrum of people than stereotypes dictate. Trying to ''"mandate"'' inclusiveness and force the hobby to fit a completely different audience who has no real interest (key words) is equal to spraying napalm to put out a fire.

Oldfags can only chuckle to themselves; the neckbeards of old saw people try to demonize or similarly alter their hobbies for [[Gary Gygax]]'s entire lifetime, and know that ultimately, this crap is destined to fail just as hard as previous attempts to kill their favorite hobbies off. In turn, many gamers and self-styled movie buffs who don't understand the "players make the rules" aspect of tabletop thus fail to understand the futility of forcing roleplaying fa/tg/uys to join a "fight" that cannot threaten their fun, even in spite of the stereotype of roleplayers who define themselves solely by their hobby.

The main reason this article exists at all is to detail the perceived threat to the hobby that defines the board and (more often) the annoyance caused by forcing unrelated political discussions on a board of people who are ''ideally'' just trying to play some damn games or otherwise mind their business.

Y'know, like most of the internet.

===SJWs and WH40k===
Now, you may hear complaints about wargaming, and how it has too much [[Imperium of Man|imperialism, war crimes]], [[Exterminatus|genocide]], [[Ecclesiarchy|religious extremism]], [[Inquisition|xenophobia, abduction]], [[Cadian Shock Troops|child soldiers]], [[Daemonculaba|injury and death of minors]], [[Penitent Engine|religious mind-rape driven war machines]], [[Slaanesh|rape, drug abuse, sexual exploitation]], [[Warp|supernatural horror]], etc. etc. While not mentioned by name, you can imagine those complaints had [[Warhammer 40,000|a particular franchise in mind]]. Naturally, you can also imagine the lengths they went to in order to [[Derp|completely ignore]] [[Grimdark|the entire air of black vs. black morality within the setting itself]] (with shades of super-dark grey if you're feeling [[Salamanders|gene]][[Tau|rous]]).

The three most common complaints about Warhammer 40,000 are usually: the absence of [[Female Space Marines]]; the [[Sisters of Battle]] having boob plates; and - tied for third - how 40k models and art seldom depicted non-Sisters of Battle women and non-white humans, despite lore containing multiple, numerous easily-found examples to the contrary.

Here is a handy quick-list of refutations, to make everyone's lives a little easier:

#Warhammer 40,000 originated as an ironic parody of hard-right authoritarianism, born out of the explosion of progressive UK Sci-Fi and Fantasy that erupted as a reaction to [[Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka|Margaret Thatcher]]'s policies of moral regulation and strong executive power (as well as all the other shit that happened in then-living memory during the 20th Century). Warhammer 40k took the piss out of the conservative UK government in the same way ''2000AD'' did, via satire and cautionary tales - this context has been lost over time with the growing popularity of the game, the growth of the company itself, and the fact that the right-leaning political climate being satirized is no longer dominant in the UK. The more current political climate is, ultimately, a different beast all its own.
#Anyone who actually reads the fluff knows that the Imperium as a body doesn't care about sex or race on that level, because the encroaching forces of [[grimdark]] make any form of discrimination impractical. Women and other minorities regularly participate in every level of Imperial society. The lack of female models is a semi-regular issue that ends up at the feet of GW, who already get enough shit from pearl-clutching moral guardians about [[Hot Chicks|Sisters Repentia and Daemonettes]] to generally want to avoid gender controversy and making "redundant" models. [[Mutant|The discrimination that ''does'' happen in the Imperium]] has some credible backing, in that the Imperium is an empire of semi-justified zealots: mutation is a common symptom of exposure to [[Chaos]] or [[Genestealer|other very bad things,]] so they figure it's best to not take chances.
#:Female Space Marines also have a well-defined fluff reason for not existing: recent lore stated there were in-universe attempts that failed badly enough to warrant discontinuing them. And of the section of the actual playerbase that clamors for female Marines, you can guess how many do so [[Rule 63|with impure intent.]] At any rate, important characters have a higher percentage of female or LBGTQ+ representation than expendable meatgrinder characters. This goes for both old characters like Yarrick (revealed to be gay) and new characters like Arch Magos Exasus (who is non-binary).
#Until recently, GW was also [[Commorragh Slaves|terrible at sculpting female characters in most cases]]; the Sisters of Battle were a rare exception for years, and that's likely ''because'' they're just power-armored humans with boobplate.
#GW so rarely listened to their own customers that complaining wouldn't have changed shit no matter how obvious the problem was. Nowadays there is a MUCH better chance for more fan-interaction, but there you go: anyone looking for change should be taking it up with GW, not Warhammer fans.
#When it comes to racial representation, they've previously said that their idea was for humanity in 40k to be as ethnically and physically diverse as they are across Earth in real-life. GW said the reason for having majority white people in the art was because the early art teams were small and made art of what they knew (the UK is still populated by 95% white people, although interestingly where GW is in Nottingham is nowadays only about 65% white), and this pattern just became an unthinking habit. This is typical of a lot of fantasy work, which is often based on history or mythology from Europe or Asia where lighter skin colors are believed more common. While it is discriminatory, it's 'unconscious bigotry' as opposed to GW being actively malicious. [[Image:5zft MoOz3I.jpg|thumb|right|200px|It begins!]]
#Every Warhammer Fantasy and 40k player knows that GW is simply [[End Times|bad]] [[Abaddon|at]] [[Matt Ward|making]] [[C.S. Goto|writing]] [[Storm of Chaos|decisions]]. Asking for well-written ''anyone'' from GW is like praying for a miracle. Furthermore, some of the most interesting characters in Fantasy were female, and got written out of canon as the years went on, so best believe the fans were already outraged over that.

If you read GW's Annual report: 2015-16, you'll find there were complaints about most of the staff being male even back then. To GW's credit, they answered: "The Company does not consider that diversity can be best achieved by establishing specific quotas and targets and appointments will continue to be made based on merit." (p. 15, if you're bored enough to check). That kinda contradicts with the "principle of boardroom diversity, which was first introduced into the Code in June 2010" mentioned on the same page, but you get it.

On the other hand, it should be noted that GW has been somewhat 'addressing' things, in [[Age of Sigmar]] anyway; several human models have non-white skin tones in their official paint jobs (and most of them look laughable with it, as they're rocking classical European features. Painting grizzly white doesn't make it a polar bear, you know), the first unhelmed Sigmarine is black, there's more than one model for a Sigmarine woman, and in the early days of AoS, the most promoted faction other than Sigmarines and Khorne was the mostly female [[Sylvaneth]] led by [[Everqueen|Alarielle the Everqueen]]. Meanwhile, [https://spikeybits.com/2017/10/female-representation-40k.html GW has promised on social media to "improve female representation" in 40k], specifically referring to reducing "boob-plate" in the miniature line and artwork (which may have factored into the decision to cover up the Sister Repentia in 8th edition).

That said, it isn't all rosy of course; [[Age of Sigmar|Age of Smegmar]] 2e has a female Stormcast Eternal with warning-coloration hair done up in a [https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Trigglypuff Trigglypuff-tier] mohawk on the front cover of the BRB, though that might not be anything other than garish visual design - the Daughters of Khaine ''could'' also be viewed as a caricature of radical feminists, probably because they're [[Drow]] with the serial numbers filed of. On the 40k side, [[Gav Thorpe]] wrote a recent book, ''Imperator: Wrath of the Omnissiah'', with a Magos who "does not identify as male or female". While this makes some sense - the Mechanicus shuns the flesh, which would presumably include gender roles - it generated a good amount of [[skub]] due to this new gender dynamic, the use of recently invented gender pronouns, how they fit into the universe, and whether or not this written in an attempt to pander to SJWs or a sign that Gav Thorpe has become one. It should be noted that, like many GW/Black Library writers, Gav Thorpe's content is by no means 100% great reads, and this might just be a case of him finding a character interesting, political views aside, and writing them very badly.

==What do???==

'''''Nothing.'''''

It's your hobby, and at day's end, any changes you make to doing what you love and loving what you do should be ultimately ''your'' decision. Don't care so much about what other people think, let alone some fanbrats and/or political brainlets who probably don't even give a shit about it to begin with. Anyone who DOES care enough about diverse characters and settings will eventually take matters into their own hands and [[Homebrew|brew some up]] [[Get shit done|themselves]], as they should. Half the fun of Warhammer is [[Your dudes|making your armies your own]] anyway, like most tabletop games, so why wait for GW to change?

The ''wrong'' response (and this is almost always true, by the way), is to insult the fans for liking something they don't like. But hey, whatchagonnado? "Pretending to be offended" can cut '''both''' ways, and complaining about people liking something you don't like is [[Twilight|almost]] [[Drizzt|as]] [[Ironclaw|popular]] [[The End Times|here]] as [[Grognard|complaining about people ''not'' liking something you love]]. And as long as someone makes their dudes "wrong," [[That Guy|''someone'']] will always be yelling.

Yet again, ''like most of the internet.''

So weigh your options and pick your battles wisely, because God knows these chucklefucks won't.

==Do They Have a Point?==
While the term represents legitimate grievances and real issues, as hinted earlier "SJW" has also seen use as a snarl word by people on the right to shut down arguments, regardless of any merit they might have. This snarl creates a crude caricature of modern leftists to smear a rather large body of people (e.g. lumping said leftists with liberals, even though not all liberals are left-wing and may participate in said smears themselves), misrepresenting any position left of the "snarler" as a threat to any cultural aspect you can think of (like say, entertainment and gaming). Sometimes it doesn't matter if the SJWs in question (or their supposed position) are even partly real, or just convenient caricatures up to and including the most blatant trolls. This use of the term is especially true of those on the [[/pol/]] side when they don't want to scare the normies - or at least let the caricatures do the work for them. After all, who's gonna pay attention to someone when they or their views are successfully cast as "[[That Guy|rocking the boat?]]"

Some fiction ''does'' have problematic elements, and all fiction has a certain degree of subtext woven into it (intentionally or not) by its creators and/or the general worldview of the day. For example, in a lot of 1950s fiction, female characters would usually be sidelined to supporting roles such as home keeper, while a male protagonist would be the guy who took charge and get shit done - even in a science fiction setting where many futurists would have speculated that women would take a greater active role in future society. Most times, writers consider the way things are done where they're from to be the way things "should" be, unless they're exploring a "what if" scenario or criticism of an aspect of their society. Tropes built around the worldview of a generation persist into the next and often serve as the foundation for that generation's works - it's part of human nature for people to write what they know, take their worldview for granted and/or follow the leader without considering the implications.

Though such tropes ''can'' serve as useful indicators of the author's beliefs and/or the cultural zeitgeist, many of these tropes also do not age well, becoming discredited in some fashion as society and attitudes towards history change over time; a fair number of MST3K episodes snark at this. Understanding how this process works, and the ramifications thereof, is a perfectly valid approach to identify problematic matters and address them in future works. This has far more practical applications than trying to be as inoffensive as possible merely for the sake of it, which often does the subject matter(s) a disservice - it is frequently an exercise in futility, and besides that, context is key. One series having [[Fantasy Armor|metal bikini armor]] is not a problem (especially if its general tone is tongue firmly in cheek), but when that becomes the norm even in more serious works, especially without justification, then it's become an issue.

Furthermore, acknowledging problematic elements in a work is not the same as a condemnation of its quality or wanting it censored because of that (usually) comparatively small element - this assumption is a classic Hanlon's Razor scenario, assuming malice where at worst stupidity may exist. The presence of certain views or "biases" in a work doesn't mean that the modern reader will instantly like or adopt said views. No one is immune to propaganda, but reading Atlas Shrugged doesn't automatically make you an individualist; being a fan of the Imperium of Man doesn't make you a militaristic theocracy advocate, reading The Lord of the Rings does not automatically make you a monarchist, and so on. Aside from tarring all people with the same brush as being easily impressionable morons, that's mostly putting the cart before the horse and attacking symptoms rather than the actual cause, i.e. what would lead someone to seek reinforcement of that particular worldview via reading or producing fiction, for instance - [[Skub|a nuanced topic that would take up a page on its own and isn't likely to be done real justice here]].

There are numerous reasons why there's "pandering" in /tg/ media, beyond the points discussed above. For one, many companies want to broaden their consumer base by taking in new demographics. As the world gets interconnected and as society becomes more diverse, there is an increasing demand by people who aren't heterosexual white men to see people who aren't heterosexual white men in Western media, be it as the hero, getting the girl/guy, or "just" being more than a sidekick (matters of representation and diversity in non-Western media - such as China's film industry or India's Bollywood - and related questions of double standards in the complaints are [[Skub|something that would warrant several paragraphs, if not their own page]]). Putting all your eggs in the established core demographic basket can be as disastrous as trying to appeal to a new demographic at the expense of that initial base (AKA "biting the hand that feeds you"). For example, the former was a contributing factor in the [[/co/|Comics Crash of 1996]], focusing too much on the established fanbase at the expense of bringing in new ones by (for example) abandoning magazine stands for comic stores, only to lose it all when they failed to appeal successfully to either while driving much of that old fanbase away.

The 'threat' to any given body of work, much less works within the domain of our hobbby, does not lie merely in conflicts between people with different political views, but more often in foolish mass-marketing mandates. And when those politics themselves become mass-marketed, the parasitic corporate practices it enables, along with framing the matter as one of a dichotomous nature - be it unintentionally, actively, dishonestly, and/or otherwise - provides further ammo to the "fringe" ideologues involved, supporters and detractors alike, that they may continue their never ending game of philosophical sportsball, and only the most short-sighted and/or fanatical sorts, especially "SJWs", consider that to be a good result.

Thankfully, some solutions are straightforward; there is absolutely no reason that you could not make the the Inquisitor in your Warhammer 40,000 campaign black. In the typical Tolkien-knockoff fantasy settings, you can include a few black characters, and the bare minimum requirement is a sentence to the effect of "their parents were from a distant land where humans look a bit different" (though Tolkien himself had ethnic diversity among humanity in his setting; the Drúedain people of LotR were non-white and opposed Sauron, while there were those among the Free Peoples who knowingly or unknowingly aided Sauron). Population dynamics, such as the oft-cited 1:1 ratio of male-to-female, suggest that there needs to be a pretty good reason NOT have a mix of characters (such as an epidemic that only effects males or females). The lack of LGBTQ+ people is often a point of contention, as it is very difficult to calculate the actual number in any population, given the inherent dangers in certain regions and the vagueness of personal gender/sexual identification. Adding said characters if they're written well and fit the story is, in general, a positive and just good business, especially for those who are transparent about the reasoning behind their works.

The problems arise with executives and other figureheads who don't know any better: some only care about lining their own pockets, and engage in the usual out-of-touch appealing to what the kids are into today without understanding the how and why of it; others fail to distinguish between diversity and tokenism as a result of push an agenda-based quota; and still others use the work to push their views and beliefs onto others, the latter two groups ignoring that their franchises are sold to people and not reductive demographic abstractions. Then there are the marketers and PR representatives who encourage this behavior in the vain hope that "new demographics" will eat it up no matter what; when this is almost inevitably proven wrong, they will double down on the pandering, which alienates those who support the view represented by not giving them what they actually wanted while further souring those who don't endorse said view.

When further combined with the tendency of sensationalist media outlets to lionize or demonize whoever they have to in order to meet their given slant's quota, as well as the presence of astroturfing and other means of manufacturing outrage in support of or against said slants, you have the recipe for a failed market or a doomed franchise at best. In a worst-case scenario, you end up creating a new set of problematic cliches and stereotypes. That the majority of fiction is political in some shape or form '''''does not''''' absolve writers of their responsibility to skillfully and properly handle what, if any, politics they acknowledge, lest we get propaganda masquerading as entertainment - and the groups they're expecting to eat that kind of slop up may very well be the first to notice.

'''TL;DR:''' '''It's complicated.''' Many of the points the SJWs raise aren't incorrect in themselves, ''but'' they are often distorted by extreme proponents and detractors alike to further their respective agendas. Regardless of your stance on the social issues in dispute, keep in mind that it's not black-and-white and that nobody is inherently trying to "destroy" anything, only change it.

== See Also ==
*[[/pol/]] - /pol/ is the largest face of the "alt-right", the yang to the SJW's left-leaning yin... if the analogy works when one side makes a habit of acting scummier as a matter of principle, and often go out of their way to one-up any bad action they see, without the excuse of at least having a good cause to hide behind. They ''pretty much'' run on the same fuel, shot-for-shot, but /pol/ uses skewed far-right principles instead. Exudes a very similar rage to their perceived enemies, but it has a chance of ranging from hilarious, to the pot calling the kettle black, to "[[Edgy|Hitler did nothing wrong]]" (lets be honest, it's mostly the last one these days).

[[Category:Meme]]