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Edgy

2021-08-25T07:49:58Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:D84A:82E4:C2F4:4BF8: /* "Right Target, Wrong Method" Characters */

{{Topquote|As far as I can make out "edgy" occurs when middlebrow, middle-aged profiteers are looking to suck the energy--not to mention the spending money--out of the "youth culture." So they come up with this fake concept of "seeming to be dangerous when every move they make is the result of market research and a corporate master plan".|[[Daria 40k|Daria]], Episode [3.05] The Lost Girls.}}

{{Topquote|My name is Not Important; what is important is what I'm going to do. I just fucking hate this world, and the human worms feasting on its carcass. My whole life is just cold, bitter hatred, and I always wanted to die violently. This is the time of vengeance, and no life is worth saving, and I will put in the grave as many as I can. It's time for me to kill and it's time for me to die; my genocide crusade begins... here!|The player character of ''Hatred''}}

{{Topquote|Make it [[World of Darkness|dark]], make it [[Grimdark|grim]], make it [[ANGRY MARINES|tough]] but then, for the love of God, [[Comedy Marines|tell a joke]].|Joss Whedon giving a nice example on how to avoid being edgy even while creating a dark world}}

[[File:Marvel Edge.jpg|200px|thumb|left|Unabashed Edginess from the 1990s]]
'''Edginess''' refers to people pushing violent and controversial subject matter in their stories, especially when they're doing it to to try and be popular with tragic, violent or controversial stories. This often takes the form of senselessly driving a vague argument, a plotline or a scenario to its darkest possible outcome, all the while openly expressing their disdain for whoever "the establishment" is, rationalizing villains or finding a middle ground in discourses. Like most internet terminology, it has been beaten to death, resurrected hastily, and then beaten some more. Has no relation to ''[[Hunter: The Reckoning]]''.

Another far less negative use of the term is to describe something on the 'edge' of what's acceptable, pushing established boundaries of convention. For example, by this definition ''Batman: The Animated Series'' was edgy for making an animated series which defied expectations of how true to its base concept and generally well-written a show designed to sell toys could be. Some more examples of this would be Ren and Stimpy (which was crude and vulgar) or Invader Zim (which could get dark in subject matter, and used a fair bit of black humor); in both cases, a decent bit of the comedy was of the "I can't believe that they did ''THAT'' on a kid's cartoon show!" variety. A milder version of this was Sonic the Hedgehog in contrast to Mario. In 1989 the Simpsons was the Edgy take on the classic family sitcom archetype and in 1999 Family Guy had slotted itself in as the Edgy version of The Simpsons. For the 1990s and early 2000s Edgy was a favored term of cynical marketing types which drew the attention of the world's sarcastic snarkers and contrarians, many of which came to congregate on sites such as 4chan.

An "edgelord" is someone who essentially is guilty of serial attempts to be edgy, like [[that guy]] at your tabletop role playing group who always, without fail, makes a specific type of self insert or wish fulfillment character; brooding, antisocial, militant types with problems with authority and a troubled past - all without the nuance or skill to actually pull it off (with their opponents often being stand-ins for whoever the edgelord considers "The Man™" or representing "the establishment™", usually big business, law enforcement or organized religion). The end result is they makes themselves look silly.

"Art" done by edgelords contain characters who are as dark, brooding and as painfully unhappy as possible, conflicts have zero compromise, institutions are the villains unless the edgelord made them and any conflict of interest will have the worst possible outcome. In writing, edgelords will go out of their way to make the story extra depressing, and subject multiple aspects of it to an increased shock factor when it's clearly '''illogical''' to do so. Needless to say, it can drive a perfect idea to make an entertaining story into the shitter, grating the nerves of even the most jaded audience. When commenting, the "edgelord" will simply push any predicament in the artwork to the darkest, deepest, worst outcome, while describing his fantasies. For example: In an adult and/or bondage predicament picture, edgelords can be found describing a paragraph of horrible fate the captive would suffer, *should* suffer because slaves are shit, and *deserve* abuse, even when the picture was of a predicament with nothing in context. Or he will simply fill the comment of any NSFW picture with his own sick fantasies, surely adding "women DESERVE it".

This is not to say that said dark elements like murder, slavery, extremism and rape are bad for literature, but rather that their sloppy execution with no regard to their depth is. As shown above, even the most "edgelord" of concepts can be salvaged and even made bearable with proper handling, especially going by the latter definition - but if you do it enough, the boundaries shift and what was edgy becomes the new norm, and there is always the risk of falling ''over'' the edge. This is why the old definition has fallen increasingly out of favor as time has gone on — people began seeing the dross sold under the title of "edgy", and the idea of what it meant thus moved away from the positive connotations marketing execs desired and closer to the qualities described above. Plus, this is the internet, and people would rather a word just be an insult or a compliment to reduce confusion.

==The Anatomy of Edginess==
Edginess is in some ways like a cargo cult. During WWII in the Pacific, the US military set up bases on remote, but inhabited islands, bringing with them a lot of stuff like planes and cars and so forth that was quite amazing to the stone age natives, to whom the world had been a few dozen square kilometers of land surrounded by ocean, with hazy stories of other such islands. When the military left, some of the natives took to making coconut and wooden radios and flight towers based off of some vague recollection of the military variants, unaware that making the shape alone does not get you the functional item.

[[File:Pizza-slicer.jpg|200px|thumb|right|The ultimate apotheosis of an edgelord: All edge, no point.]]
In that vein, most of what comes to mind when people envision "edgy" artworks tends to be the result of people who wanted to make ''morally grey'' characters and subject matter, but lack the maturity/experience/focus necessary to NOT end up with anything other than a multiple-personality-disordered mess or a power fantasy wrapped in propaganda. Someone with (at best) mediocre creative abilities sees some fiction that makes good use of melodrama, gritty settings, dark humor and such, made by people who know what the hell they're doing and figures "I can do that!", leading to said person haphazardly applying those elements incorrectly. The results of such efforts are either tiresome, unintentionally funny or just painful. The stereotypical teenager, especially one with gothic/emo tendencies or problems with authority, commonly embody this - all too eager for "adult" things (eg: violence, sex, etc.) in their limited perception of such, often born of denial. Individuals who pander to said demographic (or are otherwise just downright hacks) will favor this approach over any sense of complexity, subtlety, nuance and some actual understanding of the human condition.

===Edgy and [[Grimdark]]===
While edginess is frequently associated with invoking grimdark [[Derp|for the sake of it and nothing else]], it's important to remember that this alone does not edgy make. As an example, [[WH40K]]'s [[Imperium of Man]] has reasons to be fair and kind when capable: though it has plenty of genocide, xenocide (completely annihilating species even when they are gentle and kind), torture, forced labor (they draw the line at commercialized chattel slavery, but un-unionized indentured servitude is fair game), witch hunts and militarism that would give Hitler a chubby beyond the grave, said horrors have reasonable justifications. Aliens were buying and selling humans like pets and culling them by the billion, operating slaver outposts even in our solar system before the Emperor came into leading humanity into a roaring rampage of revenge. And regarding souls and the universe after the Heresy, any deviation from faith in the Emperor will ''literally'' send a human to hell upon death, with their soul becoming dæmon food (and/or sex toys).

Any mistreated machinery will attract foul entities and corruption that will fuck you up seven ways till Monday and chew you out; any ill-coaxed [[Machine Spirit]] will jam and blow up in your face; and any laxity will make [[Chaos]] cults pop up by the billion in a week. Then there's [[Necrons|the genocidal robots from another age]], [[Eldar|space elves that would murder a planet on the off chance that their]] [[Farseer]] would break a nail otherwise (and they're still the nice space elves despite that, as their [[Dark Eldar|webway dwelling cousins are even worse - murdering entire planets just because they like the sound of millions of people screaming]]), [[Orks|the ambulatory (AND belligerent) fungi that plague the entire galaxy in a series of wars]], and [[Tyranids|extragalactic horrors that intend to eat everyone's face.]] [[TL;DR]] The Imperium acts like an asshole Hitler/Hirohito bastard child because the alternative is much, MUCH worse.

At the level of narrative, the fact that things are very very bad is a core thematic element of this world. As pointed out there are reasons why things are so miserable in this world which flow logically and despite this there can be points of contrast. Imperials still have the same potential to love and be kind like modern real world humans do. The Tau are hopeful despite the evils of this world. Occasionally pragmatism can overcome the deep seeded prejudices to overcome greater evils, if only for a while. And even if it is preformed by Conscript Guardsmen, Commissars or Space Marines, each the product of horrendous military institutions, can fight to achieve acts of genuine (if still typically brutal) heroism.

Now if you want a senselessly edgy story in the Warhammer 40,000 universe, an example would be the now non-canon [[Khornate Knights]].

===Who's An Edgelord?===
<small>Who's a cute little Edgelord? Yes, you, you adorable little mass-murderer, you!</small>

"Edgelord" gets applied to two groups: '''Authors''' fixated on making edgy material, and the '''Edgy characters''' they write. While most of this article assumes the latter definition (as we at least try to avoid authorial mind-reading), it's quite possible for an Edgelord author to create an edgy work without an Edgelord character<ref>How? Well, just to start with, picture a modern retelling of The Little Match Girl (the one where the title character freezes to death on the street--looking back on it, Hans Christian Anderson was Edgelord as fuck).</ref>, and a non-Edgelord author to create an Edgelord character (either unintentionally, satirically, or de-constructively).

===Edgy Villains===

There's an important argument to be made about villains and edginess. Frequently, it's necessary to engage in authorial behavior that would be considered edgy in order to properly develop a bad guy. There are a few important questions to ask in this case, the largest ones being "is this a [[Mary Sue|Villain Sue]] situation, and if so, what kind of Villain Sue are we dealing with?"<ref>For an example of a non-Edgelord Villain Sue, there are plenty of Villain Sues who the author clearly hates, but can't bring themselves to kill off for reasons of marketability. It's usually only when the Doylist definition of Mary Sue comes into play, where the Author sees themselves as the villain and has more sympathy for them than the protagonist, that Edgelordery starts to set in.</ref> and "are the author's sympathies clearly with the villain's agenda?"<ref>Not with the villain himself; plenty of villains clearly have the author's sympathy (what [[TVTropes]] might call a "Villain Woobie" or "Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds"); what matters here is does the author believe what the villain believes. That may sound odd, but many cases of "The Bad Guy Was Right" involve characters created by another author, or are (usually bad) parody of such.</ref>

===Edgelords and [[Mary Sue]]s===

A lot of edgy characters also qualify as [[Mary Sue]]s. This is because many writers who aim for "edgy" in their works are terrible at writing, and writing a [[Mary Sue]] is a common result of terrible writing. Another reason is the "Power Fantasy" route, where the author uses their work and the character in question to attack something or someone from real-life that they oppose. There are a few important questions to ask in this case, the largest ones being "is this a Jerk Sue situation?", "do the villains represent a work the author hates?" and "do the villains represent a real person or thing the author is against?"

Be on the look out for plot armor, protagonists who not only share their author's values but are not challenged on these views in any way, and the other major Sue factors covered in our [[Mary Sue]] article.

==="Right Target, Wrong Method" Characters===

One important partial exception: Sometimes authors include a character that can be considered "Edgy" in theory... but in practice, it's clear the author isn't rooting for them, because they take things '''way''' too far. We're talking "Utopia Justifies the Means, No Matter How Horrific" and "Death Penalty for Jaywalking"-type characters here. For an example of "edgy hero vs edgelord villain", compare [[Judge Dredd]] to his archnemesis, Judge Death.

While they can degrade into regular Edgelords quite easily, as long as it's clear that either the author's sympathies are not with them, and/or the story spends a lot of time on the collateral damage they inflict, they can be considered not wish-fulfillment enough to count as Edgelords... although note that such characters, particularly if allowed to be a protagonist or in the hands of more than one author, tend to degrade into Edgelordery for subtly obvious reasons.

===Sidenote: Chunni===

In some Weeb circles, an "Edgelord" is called "Chuuni", short for "Chuunibyou". This delightful Japanese word combines the concepts of "Sophomoric" ("Chuunibyou" literally translated means "Middle [School] 2[nd Year] Syndrome") and "Edgelord", with an optional side note of "I have supernatural powers". Importantly, the "Stupid and Lame" part is baked right into the word, while "Edgelord" is usually only ''implies'' stupidity.

===In closing===
{{Topquote|So maybe ordinary people ''don't'' always crack. Maybe there ''isn't'' any need to crawl under a ''rock'' with all the ''other'' slimy things when trouble hits... maybe it was just ''you'', all the time|Batman, The Killing Joke}}

There are many paths to success for a storyteller, some of which include going over dark territory in various ways or by innovating and pushing boundaries. However, all of them require care and attention to detail to pull off well. Being dark or pushing boundaries is not profound in and of itself. A lack of dark content doesn't equal lack of profoundness (eg; some of Aesop's Fables). Shock value, twists and subverting expectations doesn't automatically equal good storytelling. Finally, using these things as an outlet for personal views/grievances is the writing equivalent of walking through a minefield.

==How Can I Tell If My Character Is An Edgelord?==

Every edgelord has at least four qualities; skilled at violence, moody, has easy access to weapons and are aggressively contrarian. While alone or even together these traits don't make an edgelord, each "Yes" answer from the list below gives your character a piece of edgelorddom:

* Are they either a power fantasy against or deliberately written to offend "The Man™" or "the establishment™"? (NOTE: With one exception below, and even if not targeting "the establishment™"/targeting enemies of theirs such as criminals, '''a "yes" answer here automatically grants the character edgelord status.''')
** Bonus points if the writer goes after ''the usual targets''; [[Capitalism|big business]], organized [[religion]], the education system or law enforcement. Double bonus points if they're a real-life example from the above, triple bonus points if they've already been frequently targeted in media (eg; oil companies, the Catholic Church, strict schoolteachers or the police) and quadruple bonus points if its a mix (such as Catholic boarding schools).
** The one exception are characters who '''start out''' as merely mildly edgy (particularly antagonists of the "right target, wrong methods" variety), and only graduate to full edgelord status if other writers are allowed access to them or the current writer gets carried away.
* Do they openly mock altruistic traits (like hope and love)? Compromise? faith or the Powers-That-Be? Bonus points if they do so without suffering negative consequences for it.
* Do they have a backstory dominated by abuse they suffered (often trotted out as an excuse for their violent contrarianism)?
* Are forgiveness and redemption things the character disregards, if not actively despises?
** Partial credit if they're seeking redemption... but only changing their targets instead of their approach or methods.
* Do they not care if they live or die? Or do they want to die?
* Do they have problems with authority? As in a negative attitude towards anyone else having authority over them.
* Are they heavily scarred individuals? (physical, emotional, whatever...)
* Do they regularly quote-mine philosophers or works of fiction and spout these quotes to validate their worldview?
* Do they share any of the same beliefs as the work's creator and openly express them? (for example, the protagonists of stories by [[Ayn Rand]] or [[Jack Chick]]). Bonus points if they're nihilistic. <ref>This item is more a [[Mary Sue]] trope, but there is significant overlap between edgelords and Mary Sues.</ref>
** Are these views never challenged or refuted in the story? Or are the challengers clearly strawmen, including tarring the entire group with the same brush as an extremist minority?
** The [[Star Trek]] Captain Exception: If said belief is cleanly confined to one speech towards the end of the story/episode, and the author seems to be legitimately trying to just sum up and state the message of the story, it usually doesn't count. (Normally not an issue for edgelords, but it has happened occasionally.)
* Do they always wear sinister-looking attire? Bonus points if the outfit;
** Includes a cloak or a long trenchcoat (think Neo's from the Matrix films).
** Has [[Chaos|built-in blades or spikes]]
** Includes a fedora
*** Any other excessively Cool Hat counts for half-credit--and yes, this does include Judge Dredd's Helmet.
** Is covered in insults, profanities, curses or threats
** Has tailored-on violent, anarchic or sacrilegious imagery
** Incorporates or is made of others' body parts
** Is alive (especially if it's a monster in clothing form or possessed)
* Do they wear warpaint?
* Do they have body modification, ranging from minor such as tattoos to extreme examples such as horns or wings? Bonus points if the modifications can be weaponized.
* Do they swear like a drunk pirate?
* Do they have an "adult" vice such as drinking or smoking (fantastical ones count). Bonus points if its an addiction.
* Do they have plot armor? (such as the Punisher being able to go toe-to-toe against superpowered beings who’d mop the floor with him otherwise)
* Are they a protagonist or antagonist written by [[Gav Thorpe]], Garth Ennis, Mark Millar, [[A Song of Ice and Fire|George RR Martin]], Garth Ennis or Alan Moore? Honorable mention: [[Judge Dredd|Pat Mills]] (Note, an edgelord can be written by someone who's none of these people. And Moore and Martin, at least, are capable of writing protagonists and antagonists who aren't Edgelords despite lots of their characters being unnecessarily edgy.)

==Notable Edgelords==

===Comics===
* The Punisher (pictured above), depending on the writer but especially when it's Garth Ennis. The ultimate example being Ennis' professionally published Hate Fic [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punisher_Kills_the_Marvel_Universe "Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe"].
* Billy Butcher from "The Boys", a comic series written by the edgelord Punisher author named above using [[Original character, do not steal|knock-offs of Marvel and DC supers]] in an anti-superhero genre power fantasy. Billy himself leads the titular group, and is a racist Punisher knock-off and author mouthpiece.
* The Joker, depending on the writer.
** Batman can be made into an edgelord in a edgy writer's hands (for example, Frank Miller's "All Star Batman And Robin"), although more rarely than you might think, since his respect for the part of the establishment - owning Wayne Enterprises and his respectful alliance with most of Gotham's police, chief among them Commissioner Gordon - and his "no kill" code usually heads off most of the worst edgelord tendencies.
* Lord Edgelord, later Lord Edgegod from Slackwyrm Keep. He's aware, and <s>he's loving it</s><span style='color:red;font-size:100%'>***CLANG!*** There's no love in edge, only chaos!</span>
* Adversary from DC comics (pictured below), as a jab at edgelord characters and perhaps also their fans. In addition to meeting most of the criteria above, he works for a demon named Lord Satanus who gave him his powers and is actually a kid in a wheelchair.

===Film===
* Jared Leto's Joker in "Suicide Squad (2016)".
** Compare this to Heath Ledger's Joker in ''The Dark Knight'' and Joqauin Phoenix's Joker in ''Joker''. Ledger's and Phoenix's portrayals were "edge with a point"; the former was about exploring human evils regarding terrorism and the latter was about exploring the origins of evil (both avoiding ideological baggage).
* Tyler Durden from "Fight Club". While he started out as "edge with a point" trying to give men catharsis from, and criticizing, the growing cultural and familial vacuum of the 90's, later in the film he descended into being a full-blown edgelord.
* [[Star Wars|Kylo Ren]] AKA Krylo Ben AKA Ben Swolo. The writers were doing it on purpose, to play up the First Order's dogmatic North Korea in space schtick, and to that end made Kylo an incredibly unsubtle Darth Vader pastiche. While "Kylo" may be the worst Skywalker ever, there is no denying that the edge is strong in his family. His mom's side are a bunch of crybaby desert backworlders with an incestuous sex drive and his dad was a scruffy, nerf herding spice smuggler - and all were war criminals, some with body counts in the hundred thousands and some with children's blood on their hands... He probably fits the mold better than we'd like to admit. Also his edge is undermined by fact that he never won a fight against [[Mary_Sue|Mar-Rey Sue Palpatine]] which doesn’t help things either.
* Peter and Paul from "Funny Games". Another "cool psycho gang that tortures, kills and dismembers a family" sort of director's wank which ups to eleven: when the woman in desperation manages to kill one, the other literally turns back time, and kills her child and husband, THEN tortures, gags, takes her for a boat ride and drowns her for fun, go to the next house and wink at the camera while acting happy and nonchalant, to start the cycle a new. Director Haneke has stated that the film is a reflection and criticism of violence used in media and definitely not getting his rocks off torturing a whitebread white woman with a family and gagging, killing, and raping her. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight (then again this is a tame letdown compared to what a hardcore gorehound would watch, with cinematography purposely ruining any payoff. Very messed while also giving a middle finger to [[Slannesh]] Worshipers as no rape occurs in the film). Oh, and he enjoyed it so much he remade HIS OWN MOVIE; after the original 1997 German language version he made a 2008 English version.
* "The Strangers" from the 2008 The Strangers movie. Literally a bunch of home invaders invade a couple's home, beat, torture and kill the husband, unmask themselves to the wife, act all chill and cute, act cool to a bible tract distributing kid and talk about "it will be easier next time". They are never found, never bested, and simply put, get away with everything in a "cool teenager" attitude.

===Live Action TV===
* Stargate's Sohkar- It's hard to get more edgelord than literally masquerading/cosplaying as Satan.

===Video Games===
* [[/v/|Shadow the Hedgehog]] for the PS2/XBox/Gamecube. For the unfamiliar: An edgy game about a radical edgelordy cartoon hedgehog shooting enemies, yet ESRB rated for Everyone 10 and up.
** The villain Infinite from ''Sonic Forces'', as a parody of edgy Villain Sue characters.
* Several characters from World of Warcraft, prime individuals being Deathwing, Sylvanas, Sargeras and Illidan Stormrage (pictured below). There's also edgy groups including the Forsaken, Death Knights and Demon Hunters (Illidan even founded the latter).
** Special mention goes to pre-retcon Sargeras. Originally, Sargeras was so traumatized by the evil of the demons he fought... [[Stupid Evil|he became convinced that good was futile and conscripted those same demons into an army to destroy the cosmos]]).
* Reaper from Overwatch. For whatever reason he cannot die, as he constantly regenerates his tissues (with an advanced necrosis, so he's basically sort of sci-fi undead). Of course, he blames his former friends from Overwatch (like he never considered it COULD be some side effect from supersoldier genetic modifications he'd received before forming of the Overwatch, even moreso when the shady scientist who modified him also joined Talon) for his sorry condition, so he became fixated on revenge and killing. Also, he was super jealous for his best friend, who was getting all the praise, while he was getting his hands dirty.
* Caesar's Legion and Caesar himself in [[Fallout|Fallout: New Vegas]] (along with some of their fans and the writer who created them).
* Not Important aka The Antagonist aka The Crusader from Hatred. Imagine every trope related to nihilistic spree shooters, push them to their uncomfortable extremes and then plop the result in a monochromatic mess of a game. What you get is the story about a very unlikable man with dialogue written by less likeable people (including an edgy as fuck death metal band) going around and killing everyone because...fuck you, it's edgy.

===Literature===
* [[Elric]] of Melnibone, arguably the first one.
* Euron Greyjoy, Littlefinger, and Ramsay Bolton from [[A Song of Ice and Fire]].
* Hamlet (yes, THAT Hamlet), possibly an example predating Elric. After his father dies dies, he wears black, becomes foreboding, dramatic and revenge obsessed for at least 6 months, monologues with skulls and murders his friends including the harmless father of his girlfriend (though to be fair he thought he was stabbing the man who he suspected killed his father).

===Tabletop Games===
* [[Blackguard]]s
* Vlaakith, the Queen of the [[Githyanki]]. On top of being a callous, violent, paranoid tyrannical lich, she hates systems of authority but wants to be goddess of her people [[What|despite hating religion most of all]]. She values strength... but kills people who ''might'' become powerful enough to challenge her; textbook edgelord.
* [[Lolth]] from Dungeons and Dragons. Started with trying to overthrow her divine husband because she didn't like her job and it all went downhill from there. For more information, look at the [[Drow]] and remember they're like that because her laws require it.
* Warhammer settings have too many to list them all;
** 40k is the worst offender, with groups such as the [[Black Templars]], the [[Marines Malevolent]] and most [[Chaos Space Marine|traitor marines]].
*** In particular, there's [[Konrad Curze]]...
*** ...[[Fabius Bile]]...
*** ...and the [[Dark Eldar]], each to such a degree they each deserve a separate bullet point all to themselves.
** For Warhammer Fantasy there's [[Valnir the Reaper]], [[Nagash]] and most [[Dark Elves]]. (None of whom are quite so ''needlessly'' edgy as to deserve their own separate bullet points, unlike the 40k Edgelords above.<ref>Nagash might come close, but is presented as more "he's just an asshole", compared to the "he might have a point" presentation of Bile or full Tragic Backstory of Curze. A similar point can be made about the Dark Elves (just assholes) compared to the Dark Eldar (who need to feed Slaanesh because if they don't s/he eats them).</ref>)
** On that note, [[Malal]] among the other [[Chaos Gods|Ruinous Powers]].

===Fan Works===
* [[Drizzt]] clones with extreme Alignment leanings, either towards good or evil.
* Various [[Original character, do not steal|fan-made]] and canon Sonic characters, particularly Shadow.
* The protagonist of "Ambience: A Fleet Symphony" and the story itself. A Fallout KanColle crossover fanfic that thinks it's a regular KanColle fanfic. It revolves around rape, killing, eugenics and an violent solipsistic protagonist with enough plot armor to make Ciaphas Cain look like a [[Star Trek|redshirt]] one day away from retirement. When the story was posted to a forum and scorned, the writer went ballistic against their critics.
* The whole "*teleports behind you* Nothing personal kid. *stabs you*" [[meme]] originated as a parody of edgelord characters.

===Anime===
* Half of the [[Animu]] protagonists in existence. Bonus points if the genre is [[Isekai]], triple points if there's a harem involved.
* As a general trend: Vegeta, of Dragonball Z started a long term trend in Shonen anime and manga for "edgy badboy antagonistic rival" (who usually either starts out or winds up as a full-on (anti)villain) characters who are frequently more popular than the milktoast main character, especially in fanfiction. Examples include Sasuke Uchiha of Naruto, Bakugo from My Hero Academia, and, going further afield, Riku from Kingdom Hearts (/v/, rather than /a/, if a very /a/ shaded /v/), and Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender (a Western example modeled on the type). Note that not all of them qualify for full "Edgelord", as many of them are merely ''mildly'' edgy, but it's a frequent enough vein of Edgelords that we need to mention it here. Particular mention should be made of...
** Bakugo from My Hero Academia, who probably counts as a deconstruction/parody of one. What else do you say about somebody who chooses the codename "King of Explodo-Kills" and later "Great Explosion Murder God Dynamight" while training to be a super'''hero'''?
* Keyaru from Redo of Healer deserves a spot for causing a localized [[Warp Storm|shitstorm]] involving massive levels of [[skub]] in the anime fandom. He's a healing slave who was physically and sexually abused until he finds out a [[Mary Sue|loophole in his magic to resets time]] and fulfills his fantasy. Keyaru believes that since history was reset, he can't take revenge for acts that were not commited; and in a twisted leap of logic, instead of preventing those things from happening, he decides to make sure his abusers actually repeat their wrongdoings (which include several months of sexual abuse while drugged in a filthy cell) so he feels justified when he inflicts his own kind of revenge. Revenge such as: breaking all the fingers of a princess, THEN healing them and start anew, THEN [[rape|raping]] her repeatedly, THEN erasing her personality and make her his sex slave; or turn a guard into a little girl, and turns all his men into [[Slaanesh |horny rape zombies]], and has him raped to death, while he torches the building to make sure no one survives; or lock an enfeebled knight lady in a room with brainwashed, sex-crazed hungry [[Cannibalism|cannibals]], and promises her he will free her if she manages to satisfy them sexually all night long. She gets devoured by midnight. And the list keeps going. Of course, Keyaru will say that hatred is what gets him going and revenge is the best feeling in the world, next to sex and eating. When [[Grimdark|his whole home village gets razed in retaliation for the princess]], he's actually overjoyed to finally have a justification to brutally murder THE WHOLE ARMY; he only manages to save a single boy from his village, but he makes sure the boy holds a grudge on him, because in his words [[derp|"Only hatred can wash up the sadness of losing all your loved ones"]]. Truly an endgelord among edgelords.

===Notable NOT Edgelords===

* '''Cad Bane''' (Star Wars The Clone Wars): Bounty hunter who once killed a guy in front of their brother just to get his fedora back (''"What are you lookin' at? It's a nice hat."''). Not an edgelord because he's perfectly happy to work for the establishment as long as the establishment is the highest bidder.

* '''Bronn/Ser Bronn of the Blackwater''' (A Song of Ice and Fire): Snarky mercenary who would kill a baby for the right price. Not an edgelord because he'll also work for the establishment - and does for much of the story - plus his SOLE focus in life is looking out for number one; he loves life and doesn't want to die.

[[Category:Gamer Slang]]

==Gallery==
<gallery>
File:Lord_of_the_edge_by_takfloyd-d99sq48.png|The edgelord mindset in a nutshell.
File:1699592-elric_of_melnibone_by_isra2007.jpg|If any fictional edgelord could be called well-written, it'd be Elric.
File:Adversary_01.jpg|"Adversary" from DC Comics. Sinister clothes, aggressive name, smoking, swearing, trying to kill Superman for "rep"...
File:Tyler-durden-7.jpg|The face that launched a thousand edgelords (ironically doesn't wear dark clothes).
File:Darion Mograine.jpg|There's a small but distinct line between edgy...
File:531939-vertical-blizzard-wallpapers-2560x1440.jpg|... and edgelord.
</gallery>

Edgy

2021-08-25T07:18:30Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:D84A:82E4:C2F4:4BF8: /* Comics */

{{Topquote|As far as I can make out "edgy" occurs when middlebrow, middle-aged profiteers are looking to suck the energy--not to mention the spending money--out of the "youth culture." So they come up with this fake concept of "seeming to be dangerous when every move they make is the result of market research and a corporate master plan".|[[Daria 40k|Daria]], Episode [3.05] The Lost Girls.}}

{{Topquote|My name is Not Important; what is important is what I'm going to do. I just fucking hate this world, and the human worms feasting on its carcass. My whole life is just cold, bitter hatred, and I always wanted to die violently. This is the time of vengeance, and no life is worth saving, and I will put in the grave as many as I can. It's time for me to kill and it's time for me to die; my genocide crusade begins... here!|The player character of ''Hatred''}}

{{Topquote|Make it [[World of Darkness|dark]], make it [[Grimdark|grim]], make it [[ANGRY MARINES|tough]] but then, for the love of God, [[Comedy Marines|tell a joke]].|Joss Whedon giving a nice example on how to avoid being edgy even while creating a dark world}}

[[File:Marvel Edge.jpg|200px|thumb|left|Unabashed Edginess from the 1990s]]
'''Edginess''' refers to people pushing violent and controversial subject matter in their stories, especially when they're doing it to to try and be popular with tragic, violent or controversial stories. This often takes the form of senselessly driving a vague argument, a plotline or a scenario to its darkest possible outcome, all the while openly expressing their disdain for whoever "the establishment" is, rationalizing villains or finding a middle ground in discourses. Like most internet terminology, it has been beaten to death, resurrected hastily, and then beaten some more. Has no relation to ''[[Hunter: The Reckoning]]''.

Another far less negative use of the term is to describe something on the 'edge' of what's acceptable, pushing established boundaries of convention. For example, by this definition ''Batman: The Animated Series'' was edgy for making an animated series which defied expectations of how true to its base concept and generally well-written a show designed to sell toys could be. Some more examples of this would be Ren and Stimpy (which was crude and vulgar) or Invader Zim (which could get dark in subject matter, and used a fair bit of black humor); in both cases, a decent bit of the comedy was of the "I can't believe that they did ''THAT'' on a kid's cartoon show!" variety. A milder version of this was Sonic the Hedgehog in contrast to Mario. In 1989 the Simpsons was the Edgy take on the classic family sitcom archetype and in 1999 Family Guy had slotted itself in as the Edgy version of The Simpsons. For the 1990s and early 2000s Edgy was a favored term of cynical marketing types which drew the attention of the world's sarcastic snarkers and contrarians, many of which came to congregate on sites such as 4chan.

An "edgelord" is someone who essentially is guilty of serial attempts to be edgy, like [[that guy]] at your tabletop role playing group who always, without fail, makes a specific type of self insert or wish fulfillment character; brooding, antisocial, militant types with problems with authority and a troubled past - all without the nuance or skill to actually pull it off (with their opponents often being stand-ins for whoever the edgelord considers "The Man™" or representing "the establishment™", usually big business, law enforcement or organized religion). The end result is they makes themselves look silly.

"Art" done by edgelords contain characters who are as dark, brooding and as painfully unhappy as possible, conflicts have zero compromise, institutions are the villains unless the edgelord made them and any conflict of interest will have the worst possible outcome. In writing, edgelords will go out of their way to make the story extra depressing, and subject multiple aspects of it to an increased shock factor when it's clearly '''illogical''' to do so. Needless to say, it can drive a perfect idea to make an entertaining story into the shitter, grating the nerves of even the most jaded audience. When commenting, the "edgelord" will simply push any predicament in the artwork to the darkest, deepest, worst outcome, while describing his fantasies. For example: In an adult and/or bondage predicament picture, edgelords can be found describing a paragraph of horrible fate the captive would suffer, *should* suffer because slaves are shit, and *deserve* abuse, even when the picture was of a predicament with nothing in context. Or he will simply fill the comment of any NSFW picture with his own sick fantasies, surely adding "women DESERVE it".

This is not to say that said dark elements like murder, slavery, extremism and rape are bad for literature, but rather that their sloppy execution with no regard to their depth is. As shown above, even the most "edgelord" of concepts can be salvaged and even made bearable with proper handling, especially going by the latter definition - but if you do it enough, the boundaries shift and what was edgy becomes the new norm, and there is always the risk of falling ''over'' the edge. This is why the old definition has fallen increasingly out of favor as time has gone on — people began seeing the dross sold under the title of "edgy", and the idea of what it meant thus moved away from the positive connotations marketing execs desired and closer to the qualities described above. Plus, this is the internet, and people would rather a word just be an insult or a compliment to reduce confusion.

==The Anatomy of Edginess==
Edginess is in some ways like a cargo cult. During WWII in the Pacific, the US military set up bases on remote, but inhabited islands, bringing with them a lot of stuff like planes and cars and so forth that was quite amazing to the stone age natives, to whom the world had been a few dozen square kilometers of land surrounded by ocean, with hazy stories of other such islands. When the military left, some of the natives took to making coconut and wooden radios and flight towers based off of some vague recollection of the military variants, unaware that making the shape alone does not get you the functional item.

[[File:Pizza-slicer.jpg|200px|thumb|right|The ultimate apotheosis of an edgelord: All edge, no point.]]
In that vein, most of what comes to mind when people envision "edgy" artworks tends to be the result of people who wanted to make ''morally grey'' characters and subject matter, but lack the maturity/experience/focus necessary to NOT end up with anything other than a multiple-personality-disordered mess or a power fantasy wrapped in propaganda. Someone with (at best) mediocre creative abilities sees some fiction that makes good use of melodrama, gritty settings, dark humor and such, made by people who know what the hell they're doing and figures "I can do that!", leading to said person haphazardly applying those elements incorrectly. The results of such efforts are either tiresome, unintentionally funny or just painful. The stereotypical teenager, especially one with gothic/emo tendencies or problems with authority, commonly embody this - all too eager for "adult" things (eg: violence, sex, etc.) in their limited perception of such, often born of denial. Individuals who pander to said demographic (or are otherwise just downright hacks) will favor this approach over any sense of complexity, subtlety, nuance and some actual understanding of the human condition.

===Edgy and [[Grimdark]]===
While edginess is frequently associated with invoking grimdark [[Derp|for the sake of it and nothing else]], it's important to remember that this alone does not edgy make. As an example, [[WH40K]]'s [[Imperium of Man]] has reasons to be fair and kind when capable: though it has plenty of genocide, xenocide (completely annihilating species even when they are gentle and kind), torture, forced labor (they draw the line at commercialized chattel slavery, but un-unionized indentured servitude is fair game), witch hunts and militarism that would give Hitler a chubby beyond the grave, said horrors have reasonable justifications. Aliens were buying and selling humans like pets and culling them by the billion, operating slaver outposts even in our solar system before the Emperor came into leading humanity into a roaring rampage of revenge. And regarding souls and the universe after the Heresy, any deviation from faith in the Emperor will ''literally'' send a human to hell upon death, with their soul becoming dæmon food (and/or sex toys).

Any mistreated machinery will attract foul entities and corruption that will fuck you up seven ways till Monday and chew you out; any ill-coaxed [[Machine Spirit]] will jam and blow up in your face; and any laxity will make [[Chaos]] cults pop up by the billion in a week. Then there's [[Necrons|the genocidal robots from another age]], [[Eldar|space elves that would murder a planet on the off chance that their]] [[Farseer]] would break a nail otherwise (and they're still the nice space elves despite that, as their [[Dark Eldar|webway dwelling cousins are even worse - murdering entire planets just because they like the sound of millions of people screaming]]), [[Orks|the ambulatory (AND belligerent) fungi that plague the entire galaxy in a series of wars]], and [[Tyranids|extragalactic horrors that intend to eat everyone's face.]] [[TL;DR]] The Imperium acts like an asshole Hitler/Hirohito bastard child because the alternative is much, MUCH worse.

At the level of narrative, the fact that things are very very bad is a core thematic element of this world. As pointed out there are reasons why things are so miserable in this world which flow logically and despite this there can be points of contrast. Imperials still have the same potential to love and be kind like modern real world humans do. The Tau are hopeful despite the evils of this world. Occasionally pragmatism can overcome the deep seeded prejudices to overcome greater evils, if only for a while. And even if it is preformed by Conscript Guardsmen, Commissars or Space Marines, each the product of horrendous military institutions, can fight to achieve acts of genuine (if still typically brutal) heroism.

Now if you want a senselessly edgy story in the Warhammer 40,000 universe, an example would be the now non-canon [[Khornate Knights]].

===Who's An Edgelord?===
<small>Who's a cute little Edgelord? Yes, you, you adorable little mass-murderer, you!</small>

"Edgelord" gets applied to two groups: '''Authors''' fixated on making edgy material, and the '''Edgy characters''' they write. While most of this article assumes the latter definition (as we at least try to avoid authorial mind-reading), it's quite possible for an Edgelord author to create an edgy work without an Edgelord character<ref>How? Well, just to start with, picture a modern retelling of The Little Match Girl (the one where the title character freezes to death on the street--looking back on it, Hans Christian Anderson was Edgelord as fuck).</ref>, and a non-Edgelord author to create an Edgelord character (either unintentionally, satirically, or de-constructively).

===Edgy Villains===

There's an important argument to be made about villains and edginess. Frequently, it's necessary to engage in authorial behavior that would be considered edgy in order to properly develop a bad guy. There are a few important questions to ask in this case, the largest ones being "is this a [[Mary Sue|Villain Sue]] situation, and if so, what kind of Villain Sue are we dealing with?"<ref>For an example of a non-Edgelord Villain Sue, there are plenty of Villain Sues who the author clearly hates, but can't bring themselves to kill off for reasons of marketability. It's usually only when the Doylist definition of Mary Sue comes into play, where the Author sees themselves as the villain and has more sympathy for them than the protagonist, that Edgelordery starts to set in.</ref> and "are the author's sympathies clearly with the villain's agenda?"<ref>Not with the villain himself; plenty of villains clearly have the author's sympathy (what [[TVTropes]] might call a "Villain Woobie" or "Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds"); what matters here is does the author believe what the villain believes. That may sound odd, but many cases of "The Bad Guy Was Right" involve characters created by another author, or are (usually bad) parody of such.</ref>

===Edgelords and [[Mary Sue]]s===

A lot of edgy characters also qualify as [[Mary Sue]]s. This is because many writers who aim for "edgy" in their works are terrible at writing, and writing a [[Mary Sue]] is a common result of terrible writing. Another reason is the "Power Fantasy" route, where the author uses their work and the character in question to attack something or someone from real-life that they oppose. There are a few important questions to ask in this case, the largest ones being "is this a Jerk Sue situation?", "do the villains represent a work the author hates?" and "do the villains represent a real person or thing the author is against?"

Be on the look out for plot armor, protagonists who not only share their author's values but are not challenged on these views in any way, and the other major Sue factors covered in our [[Mary Sue]] article.

==="Right Target, Wrong Method" Characters===

One important partial exception: Sometimes authors include a character that can be considered "Edgy" in theory... but in practice, it's clear the author isn't rooting for them, because they take things '''way''' too far. We're talking "Utopia Justifies the Means, No Matter How Horrific" and "Death Penalty for Jaywalking"-type characters here. While they can degrade into regular Edgelords quite easily, as long as it's clear that either the author's sympathies are not with them, and/or the story spends a lot of time on the collateral damage they inflict, they can be considered not wish-fulfillment enough to count as Edgelords... although note that such characters, particularly if allowed to be a protagonist or in the hands of more than one author, tend to degrade into Edgelordery for subtly obvious reasons.

===Sidenote: Chunni===

In some Weeb circles, an "Edgelord" is called "Chuuni", short for "Chuunibyou". This delightful Japanese word combines the concepts of "Sophomoric" ("Chuunibyou" literally translated means "Middle [School] 2[nd Year] Syndrome") and "Edgelord", with an optional side note of "I have supernatural powers". Importantly, the "Stupid and Lame" part is baked right into the word, while "Edgelord" is usually only ''implies'' stupidity.

===In closing===
{{Topquote|So maybe ordinary people ''don't'' always crack. Maybe there ''isn't'' any need to crawl under a ''rock'' with all the ''other'' slimy things when trouble hits... maybe it was just ''you'', all the time|Batman, The Killing Joke}}

There are many paths to success for a storyteller, some of which include going over dark territory in various ways or by innovating and pushing boundaries. However, all of them require care and attention to detail to pull off well. Being dark or pushing boundaries is not profound in and of itself. A lack of dark content doesn't equal lack of profoundness (eg; some of Aesop's Fables). Shock value, twists and subverting expectations doesn't automatically equal good storytelling. Finally, using these things as an outlet for personal views/grievances is the writing equivalent of walking through a minefield.

==How Can I Tell If My Character Is An Edgelord?==

Every edgelord has at least four qualities; skilled at violence, moody, has easy access to weapons and are aggressively contrarian. While alone or even together these traits don't make an edgelord, each "Yes" answer from the list below gives your character a piece of edgelorddom:

* Are they either a power fantasy against or deliberately written to offend "The Man™" or "the establishment™"? (NOTE: With one exception below, and even if not targeting "the establishment™"/targeting enemies of theirs such as criminals, '''a "yes" answer here automatically grants the character edgelord status.''')
** Bonus points if the writer goes after ''the usual targets''; [[Capitalism|big business]], organized [[religion]], the education system or law enforcement. Double bonus points if they're a real-life example from the above, triple bonus points if they've already been frequently targeted in media (eg; oil companies, the Catholic Church, strict schoolteachers or the police) and quadruple bonus points if its a mix (such as Catholic boarding schools).
** The one exception are characters who '''start out''' as merely mildly edgy (particularly antagonists of the "right target, wrong methods" variety), and only graduate to full edgelord status if other writers are allowed access to them or the current writer gets carried away.
* Do they openly mock altruistic traits (like hope and love)? Compromise? faith or the Powers-That-Be? Bonus points if they do so without suffering negative consequences for it.
* Do they have a backstory dominated by abuse they suffered (often trotted out as an excuse for their violent contrarianism)?
* Are forgiveness and redemption things the character disregards, if not actively despises?
** Partial credit if they're seeking redemption... but only changing their targets instead of their approach or methods.
* Do they not care if they live or die? Or do they want to die?
* Do they have problems with authority? As in a negative attitude towards anyone else having authority over them.
* Are they heavily scarred individuals? (physical, emotional, whatever...)
* Do they regularly quote-mine philosophers or works of fiction and spout these quotes to validate their worldview?
* Do they share any of the same beliefs as the work's creator and openly express them? (for example, the protagonists of stories by [[Ayn Rand]] or [[Jack Chick]]). Bonus points if they're nihilistic. <ref>This item is more a [[Mary Sue]] trope, but there is significant overlap between edgelords and Mary Sues.</ref>
** Are these views never challenged or refuted in the story? Or are the challengers clearly strawmen, including tarring the entire group with the same brush as an extremist minority?
** The [[Star Trek]] Captain Exception: If said belief is cleanly confined to one speech towards the end of the story/episode, and the author seems to be legitimately trying to just sum up and state the message of the story, it usually doesn't count. (Normally not an issue for edgelords, but it has happened occasionally.)
* Do they always wear sinister-looking attire? Bonus points if the outfit;
** Includes a cloak or a long trenchcoat (think Neo's from the Matrix films).
** Has [[Chaos|built-in blades or spikes]]
** Includes a fedora
*** Any other excessively Cool Hat counts for half-credit--and yes, this does include Judge Dredd's Helmet.
** Is covered in insults, profanities, curses or threats
** Has tailored-on violent, anarchic or sacrilegious imagery
** Incorporates or is made of others' body parts
** Is alive (especially if it's a monster in clothing form or possessed)
* Do they wear warpaint?
* Do they have body modification, ranging from minor such as tattoos to extreme examples such as horns or wings? Bonus points if the modifications can be weaponized.
* Do they swear like a drunk pirate?
* Do they have an "adult" vice such as drinking or smoking (fantastical ones count). Bonus points if its an addiction.
* Do they have plot armor? (such as the Punisher being able to go toe-to-toe against superpowered beings who’d mop the floor with him otherwise)
* Are they a protagonist or antagonist written by [[Gav Thorpe]], Garth Ennis, Mark Millar, [[A Song of Ice and Fire|George RR Martin]], Garth Ennis or Alan Moore? Honorable mention: [[Judge Dredd|Pat Mills]] (Note, an edgelord can be written by someone who's none of these people. And Moore and Martin, at least, are capable of writing protagonists and antagonists who aren't Edgelords despite lots of their characters being unnecessarily edgy.)

==Notable Edgelords==

===Comics===
* The Punisher (pictured above), depending on the writer but especially when it's Garth Ennis. The ultimate example being Ennis' professionally published Hate Fic [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punisher_Kills_the_Marvel_Universe "Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe"].
* Billy Butcher from "The Boys", a comic series written by the edgelord Punisher author named above using [[Original character, do not steal|knock-offs of Marvel and DC supers]] in an anti-superhero genre power fantasy. Billy himself leads the titular group, and is a racist Punisher knock-off and author mouthpiece.
* The Joker, depending on the writer.
** Batman can be made into an edgelord in a edgy writer's hands (for example, Frank Miller's "All Star Batman And Robin"), although more rarely than you might think, since his respect for the part of the establishment - owning Wayne Enterprises and his respectful alliance with most of Gotham's police, chief among them Commissioner Gordon - and his "no kill" code usually heads off most of the worst edgelord tendencies.
* Lord Edgelord, later Lord Edgegod from Slackwyrm Keep. He's aware, and <s>he's loving it</s><span style='color:red;font-size:100%'>***CLANG!*** There's no love in edge, only chaos!</span>
* Adversary from DC comics (pictured below), as a jab at edgelord characters and perhaps also their fans. In addition to meeting most of the criteria above, he works for a demon named Lord Satanus who gave him his powers and is actually a kid in a wheelchair.

===Film===
* Jared Leto's Joker in "Suicide Squad (2016)".
** Compare this to Heath Ledger's Joker in ''The Dark Knight'' and Joqauin Phoenix's Joker in ''Joker''. Ledger's and Phoenix's portrayals were "edge with a point"; the former was about exploring human evils regarding terrorism and the latter was about exploring the origins of evil (both avoiding ideological baggage).
* Tyler Durden from "Fight Club". While he started out as "edge with a point" trying to give men catharsis from, and criticizing, the growing cultural and familial vacuum of the 90's, later in the film he descended into being a full-blown edgelord.
* [[Star Wars|Kylo Ren]] AKA Krylo Ben AKA Ben Swolo. The writers were doing it on purpose, to play up the First Order's dogmatic North Korea in space schtick, and to that end made Kylo an incredibly unsubtle Darth Vader pastiche. While "Kylo" may be the worst Skywalker ever, there is no denying that the edge is strong in his family. His mom's side are a bunch of crybaby desert backworlders with an incestuous sex drive and his dad was a scruffy, nerf herding spice smuggler - and all were war criminals, some with body counts in the hundred thousands and some with children's blood on their hands... He probably fits the mold better than we'd like to admit. Also his edge is undermined by fact that he never won a fight against [[Mary_Sue|Mar-Rey Sue Palpatine]] which doesn’t help things either.
* Peter and Paul from "Funny Games". Another "cool psycho gang that tortures, kills and dismembers a family" sort of director's wank which ups to eleven: when the woman in desperation manages to kill one, the other literally turns back time, and kills her child and husband, THEN tortures, gags, takes her for a boat ride and drowns her for fun, go to the next house and wink at the camera while acting happy and nonchalant, to start the cycle a new. Director Haneke has stated that the film is a reflection and criticism of violence used in media and definitely not getting his rocks off torturing a whitebread white woman with a family and gagging, killing, and raping her. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight (then again this is a tame letdown compared to what a hardcore gorehound would watch, with cinematography purposely ruining any payoff. Very messed while also giving a middle finger to [[Slannesh]] Worshipers as no rape occurs in the film). Oh, and he enjoyed it so much he remade HIS OWN MOVIE; after the original 1997 German language version he made a 2008 English version.
* "The Strangers" from the 2008 The Strangers movie. Literally a bunch of home invaders invade a couple's home, beat, torture and kill the husband, unmask themselves to the wife, act all chill and cute, act cool to a bible tract distributing kid and talk about "it will be easier next time". They are never found, never bested, and simply put, get away with everything in a "cool teenager" attitude.

===Live Action TV===
* Stargate's Sohkar- It's hard to get more edgelord than literally masquerading/cosplaying as Satan.

===Video Games===
* [[/v/|Shadow the Hedgehog]] for the PS2/XBox/Gamecube. For the unfamiliar: An edgy game about a radical edgelordy cartoon hedgehog shooting enemies, yet ESRB rated for Everyone 10 and up.
** The villain Infinite from ''Sonic Forces'', as a parody of edgy Villain Sue characters.
* Several characters from World of Warcraft, prime individuals being Deathwing, Sylvanas, Sargeras and Illidan Stormrage (pictured below). There's also edgy groups including the Forsaken, Death Knights and Demon Hunters (Illidan even founded the latter).
** Special mention goes to pre-retcon Sargeras. Originally, Sargeras was so traumatized by the evil of the demons he fought... [[Stupid Evil|he became convinced that good was futile and conscripted those same demons into an army to destroy the cosmos]]).
* Reaper from Overwatch. For whatever reason he cannot die, as he constantly regenerates his tissues (with an advanced necrosis, so he's basically sort of sci-fi undead). Of course, he blames his former friends from Overwatch (like he never considered it COULD be some side effect from supersoldier genetic modifications he'd received before forming of the Overwatch, even moreso when the shady scientist who modified him also joined Talon) for his sorry condition, so he became fixated on revenge and killing. Also, he was super jealous for his best friend, who was getting all the praise, while he was getting his hands dirty.
* Caesar's Legion and Caesar himself in [[Fallout|Fallout: New Vegas]] (along with some of their fans and the writer who created them).
* Not Important aka The Antagonist aka The Crusader from Hatred. Imagine every trope related to nihilistic spree shooters, push them to their uncomfortable extremes and then plop the result in a monochromatic mess of a game. What you get is the story about a very unlikable man with dialogue written by less likeable people (including an edgy as fuck death metal band) going around and killing everyone because...fuck you, it's edgy.

===Literature===
* [[Elric]] of Melnibone, arguably the first one.
* Euron Greyjoy, Littlefinger, and Ramsay Bolton from [[A Song of Ice and Fire]].
* Hamlet (yes, THAT Hamlet), possibly an example predating Elric. After his father dies dies, he wears black, becomes foreboding, dramatic and revenge obsessed for at least 6 months, monologues with skulls and murders his friends including the harmless father of his girlfriend (though to be fair he thought he was stabbing the man who he suspected killed his father).

===Tabletop Games===
* [[Blackguard]]s
* Vlaakith, the Queen of the [[Githyanki]]. On top of being a callous, violent, paranoid tyrannical lich, she hates systems of authority but wants to be goddess of her people [[What|despite hating religion most of all]]. She values strength... but kills people who ''might'' become powerful enough to challenge her; textbook edgelord.
* [[Lolth]] from Dungeons and Dragons. Started with trying to overthrow her divine husband because she didn't like her job and it all went downhill from there. For more information, look at the [[Drow]] and remember they're like that because her laws require it.
* Warhammer settings have too many to list them all;
** 40k is the worst offender, with groups such as the [[Black Templars]], the [[Marines Malevolent]] and most [[Chaos Space Marine|traitor marines]].
*** In particular, there's [[Konrad Curze]]...
*** ...[[Fabius Bile]]...
*** ...and the [[Dark Eldar]], each to such a degree they each deserve a separate bullet point all to themselves.
** For Warhammer Fantasy there's [[Valnir the Reaper]], [[Nagash]] and most [[Dark Elves]]. (None of whom are quite so ''needlessly'' edgy as to deserve their own separate bullet points, unlike the 40k Edgelords above.<ref>Nagash might come close, but is presented as more "he's just an asshole", compared to the "he might have a point" presentation of Bile or full Tragic Backstory of Curze. A similar point can be made about the Dark Elves (just assholes) compared to the Dark Eldar (who need to feed Slaanesh because if they don't s/he eats them).</ref>)
** On that note, [[Malal]] among the other [[Chaos Gods|Ruinous Powers]].

===Fan Works===
* [[Drizzt]] clones with extreme Alignment leanings, either towards good or evil.
* Various [[Original character, do not steal|fan-made]] and canon Sonic characters, particularly Shadow.
* The protagonist of "Ambience: A Fleet Symphony" and the story itself. A Fallout KanColle crossover fanfic that thinks it's a regular KanColle fanfic. It revolves around rape, killing, eugenics and an violent solipsistic protagonist with enough plot armor to make Ciaphas Cain look like a [[Star Trek|redshirt]] one day away from retirement. When the story was posted to a forum and scorned, the writer went ballistic against their critics.
* The whole "*teleports behind you* Nothing personal kid. *stabs you*" [[meme]] originated as a parody of edgelord characters.

===Anime===
* Half of the [[Animu]] protagonists in existence. Bonus points if the genre is [[Isekai]], triple points if there's a harem involved.
* As a general trend: Vegeta, of Dragonball Z started a long term trend in Shonen anime and manga for "edgy badboy antagonistic rival" (who usually either starts out or winds up as a full-on (anti)villain) characters who are frequently more popular than the milktoast main character, especially in fanfiction. Examples include Sasuke Uchiha of Naruto, Bakugo from My Hero Academia, and, going further afield, Riku from Kingdom Hearts (/v/, rather than /a/, if a very /a/ shaded /v/), and Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender (a Western example modeled on the type). Note that not all of them qualify for full "Edgelord", as many of them are merely ''mildly'' edgy, but it's a frequent enough vein of Edgelords that we need to mention it here. Particular mention should be made of...
** Bakugo from My Hero Academia, who probably counts as a deconstruction/parody of one. What else do you say about somebody who chooses the codename "King of Explodo-Kills" and later "Great Explosion Murder God Dynamight" while training to be a super'''hero'''?
* Keyaru from Redo of Healer deserves a spot for causing a localized [[Warp Storm|shitstorm]] involving massive levels of [[skub]] in the anime fandom. He's a healing slave who was physically and sexually abused until he finds out a [[Mary Sue|loophole in his magic to resets time]] and fulfills his fantasy. Keyaru believes that since history was reset, he can't take revenge for acts that were not commited; and in a twisted leap of logic, instead of preventing those things from happening, he decides to make sure his abusers actually repeat their wrongdoings (which include several months of sexual abuse while drugged in a filthy cell) so he feels justified when he inflicts his own kind of revenge. Revenge such as: breaking all the fingers of a princess, THEN healing them and start anew, THEN [[rape|raping]] her repeatedly, THEN erasing her personality and make her his sex slave; or turn a guard into a little girl, and turns all his men into [[Slaanesh |horny rape zombies]], and has him raped to death, while he torches the building to make sure no one survives; or lock an enfeebled knight lady in a room with brainwashed, sex-crazed hungry [[Cannibalism|cannibals]], and promises her he will free her if she manages to satisfy them sexually all night long. She gets devoured by midnight. And the list keeps going. Of course, Keyaru will say that hatred is what gets him going and revenge is the best feeling in the world, next to sex and eating. When [[Grimdark|his whole home village gets razed in retaliation for the princess]], he's actually overjoyed to finally have a justification to brutally murder THE WHOLE ARMY; he only manages to save a single boy from his village, but he makes sure the boy holds a grudge on him, because in his words [[derp|"Only hatred can wash up the sadness of losing all your loved ones"]]. Truly an endgelord among edgelords.

===Notable NOT Edgelords===

* '''Cad Bane''' (Star Wars The Clone Wars): Bounty hunter who once killed a guy in front of their brother just to get his fedora back (''"What are you lookin' at? It's a nice hat."''). Not an edgelord because he's perfectly happy to work for the establishment as long as the establishment is the highest bidder.

* '''Bronn/Ser Bronn of the Blackwater''' (A Song of Ice and Fire): Snarky mercenary who would kill a baby for the right price. Not an edgelord because he'll also work for the establishment - and does for much of the story - plus his SOLE focus in life is looking out for number one; he loves life and doesn't want to die.

[[Category:Gamer Slang]]

==Gallery==
<gallery>
File:Lord_of_the_edge_by_takfloyd-d99sq48.png|The edgelord mindset in a nutshell.
File:1699592-elric_of_melnibone_by_isra2007.jpg|If any fictional edgelord could be called well-written, it'd be Elric.
File:Adversary_01.jpg|"Adversary" from DC Comics. Sinister clothes, aggressive name, smoking, swearing, trying to kill Superman for "rep"...
File:Tyler-durden-7.jpg|The face that launched a thousand edgelords (ironically doesn't wear dark clothes).
File:Darion Mograine.jpg|There's a small but distinct line between edgy...
File:531939-vertical-blizzard-wallpapers-2560x1440.jpg|... and edgelord.
</gallery>

Edgy

2021-08-25T07:17:37Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:D84A:82E4:C2F4:4BF8: /* Comics */

{{Topquote|As far as I can make out "edgy" occurs when middlebrow, middle-aged profiteers are looking to suck the energy--not to mention the spending money--out of the "youth culture." So they come up with this fake concept of "seeming to be dangerous when every move they make is the result of market research and a corporate master plan".|[[Daria 40k|Daria]], Episode [3.05] The Lost Girls.}}

{{Topquote|My name is Not Important; what is important is what I'm going to do. I just fucking hate this world, and the human worms feasting on its carcass. My whole life is just cold, bitter hatred, and I always wanted to die violently. This is the time of vengeance, and no life is worth saving, and I will put in the grave as many as I can. It's time for me to kill and it's time for me to die; my genocide crusade begins... here!|The player character of ''Hatred''}}

{{Topquote|Make it [[World of Darkness|dark]], make it [[Grimdark|grim]], make it [[ANGRY MARINES|tough]] but then, for the love of God, [[Comedy Marines|tell a joke]].|Joss Whedon giving a nice example on how to avoid being edgy even while creating a dark world}}

[[File:Marvel Edge.jpg|200px|thumb|left|Unabashed Edginess from the 1990s]]
'''Edginess''' refers to people pushing violent and controversial subject matter in their stories, especially when they're doing it to to try and be popular with tragic, violent or controversial stories. This often takes the form of senselessly driving a vague argument, a plotline or a scenario to its darkest possible outcome, all the while openly expressing their disdain for whoever "the establishment" is, rationalizing villains or finding a middle ground in discourses. Like most internet terminology, it has been beaten to death, resurrected hastily, and then beaten some more. Has no relation to ''[[Hunter: The Reckoning]]''.

Another far less negative use of the term is to describe something on the 'edge' of what's acceptable, pushing established boundaries of convention. For example, by this definition ''Batman: The Animated Series'' was edgy for making an animated series which defied expectations of how true to its base concept and generally well-written a show designed to sell toys could be. Some more examples of this would be Ren and Stimpy (which was crude and vulgar) or Invader Zim (which could get dark in subject matter, and used a fair bit of black humor); in both cases, a decent bit of the comedy was of the "I can't believe that they did ''THAT'' on a kid's cartoon show!" variety. A milder version of this was Sonic the Hedgehog in contrast to Mario. In 1989 the Simpsons was the Edgy take on the classic family sitcom archetype and in 1999 Family Guy had slotted itself in as the Edgy version of The Simpsons. For the 1990s and early 2000s Edgy was a favored term of cynical marketing types which drew the attention of the world's sarcastic snarkers and contrarians, many of which came to congregate on sites such as 4chan.

An "edgelord" is someone who essentially is guilty of serial attempts to be edgy, like [[that guy]] at your tabletop role playing group who always, without fail, makes a specific type of self insert or wish fulfillment character; brooding, antisocial, militant types with problems with authority and a troubled past - all without the nuance or skill to actually pull it off (with their opponents often being stand-ins for whoever the edgelord considers "The Man™" or representing "the establishment™", usually big business, law enforcement or organized religion). The end result is they makes themselves look silly.

"Art" done by edgelords contain characters who are as dark, brooding and as painfully unhappy as possible, conflicts have zero compromise, institutions are the villains unless the edgelord made them and any conflict of interest will have the worst possible outcome. In writing, edgelords will go out of their way to make the story extra depressing, and subject multiple aspects of it to an increased shock factor when it's clearly '''illogical''' to do so. Needless to say, it can drive a perfect idea to make an entertaining story into the shitter, grating the nerves of even the most jaded audience. When commenting, the "edgelord" will simply push any predicament in the artwork to the darkest, deepest, worst outcome, while describing his fantasies. For example: In an adult and/or bondage predicament picture, edgelords can be found describing a paragraph of horrible fate the captive would suffer, *should* suffer because slaves are shit, and *deserve* abuse, even when the picture was of a predicament with nothing in context. Or he will simply fill the comment of any NSFW picture with his own sick fantasies, surely adding "women DESERVE it".

This is not to say that said dark elements like murder, slavery, extremism and rape are bad for literature, but rather that their sloppy execution with no regard to their depth is. As shown above, even the most "edgelord" of concepts can be salvaged and even made bearable with proper handling, especially going by the latter definition - but if you do it enough, the boundaries shift and what was edgy becomes the new norm, and there is always the risk of falling ''over'' the edge. This is why the old definition has fallen increasingly out of favor as time has gone on — people began seeing the dross sold under the title of "edgy", and the idea of what it meant thus moved away from the positive connotations marketing execs desired and closer to the qualities described above. Plus, this is the internet, and people would rather a word just be an insult or a compliment to reduce confusion.

==The Anatomy of Edginess==
Edginess is in some ways like a cargo cult. During WWII in the Pacific, the US military set up bases on remote, but inhabited islands, bringing with them a lot of stuff like planes and cars and so forth that was quite amazing to the stone age natives, to whom the world had been a few dozen square kilometers of land surrounded by ocean, with hazy stories of other such islands. When the military left, some of the natives took to making coconut and wooden radios and flight towers based off of some vague recollection of the military variants, unaware that making the shape alone does not get you the functional item.

[[File:Pizza-slicer.jpg|200px|thumb|right|The ultimate apotheosis of an edgelord: All edge, no point.]]
In that vein, most of what comes to mind when people envision "edgy" artworks tends to be the result of people who wanted to make ''morally grey'' characters and subject matter, but lack the maturity/experience/focus necessary to NOT end up with anything other than a multiple-personality-disordered mess or a power fantasy wrapped in propaganda. Someone with (at best) mediocre creative abilities sees some fiction that makes good use of melodrama, gritty settings, dark humor and such, made by people who know what the hell they're doing and figures "I can do that!", leading to said person haphazardly applying those elements incorrectly. The results of such efforts are either tiresome, unintentionally funny or just painful. The stereotypical teenager, especially one with gothic/emo tendencies or problems with authority, commonly embody this - all too eager for "adult" things (eg: violence, sex, etc.) in their limited perception of such, often born of denial. Individuals who pander to said demographic (or are otherwise just downright hacks) will favor this approach over any sense of complexity, subtlety, nuance and some actual understanding of the human condition.

===Edgy and [[Grimdark]]===
While edginess is frequently associated with invoking grimdark [[Derp|for the sake of it and nothing else]], it's important to remember that this alone does not edgy make. As an example, [[WH40K]]'s [[Imperium of Man]] has reasons to be fair and kind when capable: though it has plenty of genocide, xenocide (completely annihilating species even when they are gentle and kind), torture, forced labor (they draw the line at commercialized chattel slavery, but un-unionized indentured servitude is fair game), witch hunts and militarism that would give Hitler a chubby beyond the grave, said horrors have reasonable justifications. Aliens were buying and selling humans like pets and culling them by the billion, operating slaver outposts even in our solar system before the Emperor came into leading humanity into a roaring rampage of revenge. And regarding souls and the universe after the Heresy, any deviation from faith in the Emperor will ''literally'' send a human to hell upon death, with their soul becoming dæmon food (and/or sex toys).

Any mistreated machinery will attract foul entities and corruption that will fuck you up seven ways till Monday and chew you out; any ill-coaxed [[Machine Spirit]] will jam and blow up in your face; and any laxity will make [[Chaos]] cults pop up by the billion in a week. Then there's [[Necrons|the genocidal robots from another age]], [[Eldar|space elves that would murder a planet on the off chance that their]] [[Farseer]] would break a nail otherwise (and they're still the nice space elves despite that, as their [[Dark Eldar|webway dwelling cousins are even worse - murdering entire planets just because they like the sound of millions of people screaming]]), [[Orks|the ambulatory (AND belligerent) fungi that plague the entire galaxy in a series of wars]], and [[Tyranids|extragalactic horrors that intend to eat everyone's face.]] [[TL;DR]] The Imperium acts like an asshole Hitler/Hirohito bastard child because the alternative is much, MUCH worse.

At the level of narrative, the fact that things are very very bad is a core thematic element of this world. As pointed out there are reasons why things are so miserable in this world which flow logically and despite this there can be points of contrast. Imperials still have the same potential to love and be kind like modern real world humans do. The Tau are hopeful despite the evils of this world. Occasionally pragmatism can overcome the deep seeded prejudices to overcome greater evils, if only for a while. And even if it is preformed by Conscript Guardsmen, Commissars or Space Marines, each the product of horrendous military institutions, can fight to achieve acts of genuine (if still typically brutal) heroism.

Now if you want a senselessly edgy story in the Warhammer 40,000 universe, an example would be the now non-canon [[Khornate Knights]].

===Who's An Edgelord?===
<small>Who's a cute little Edgelord? Yes, you, you adorable little mass-murderer, you!</small>

"Edgelord" gets applied to two groups: '''Authors''' fixated on making edgy material, and the '''Edgy characters''' they write. While most of this article assumes the latter definition (as we at least try to avoid authorial mind-reading), it's quite possible for an Edgelord author to create an edgy work without an Edgelord character<ref>How? Well, just to start with, picture a modern retelling of The Little Match Girl (the one where the title character freezes to death on the street--looking back on it, Hans Christian Anderson was Edgelord as fuck).</ref>, and a non-Edgelord author to create an Edgelord character (either unintentionally, satirically, or de-constructively).

===Edgy Villains===

There's an important argument to be made about villains and edginess. Frequently, it's necessary to engage in authorial behavior that would be considered edgy in order to properly develop a bad guy. There are a few important questions to ask in this case, the largest ones being "is this a [[Mary Sue|Villain Sue]] situation, and if so, what kind of Villain Sue are we dealing with?"<ref>For an example of a non-Edgelord Villain Sue, there are plenty of Villain Sues who the author clearly hates, but can't bring themselves to kill off for reasons of marketability. It's usually only when the Doylist definition of Mary Sue comes into play, where the Author sees themselves as the villain and has more sympathy for them than the protagonist, that Edgelordery starts to set in.</ref> and "are the author's sympathies clearly with the villain's agenda?"<ref>Not with the villain himself; plenty of villains clearly have the author's sympathy (what [[TVTropes]] might call a "Villain Woobie" or "Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds"); what matters here is does the author believe what the villain believes. That may sound odd, but many cases of "The Bad Guy Was Right" involve characters created by another author, or are (usually bad) parody of such.</ref>

===Edgelords and [[Mary Sue]]s===

A lot of edgy characters also qualify as [[Mary Sue]]s. This is because many writers who aim for "edgy" in their works are terrible at writing, and writing a [[Mary Sue]] is a common result of terrible writing. Another reason is the "Power Fantasy" route, where the author uses their work and the character in question to attack something or someone from real-life that they oppose. There are a few important questions to ask in this case, the largest ones being "is this a Jerk Sue situation?", "do the villains represent a work the author hates?" and "do the villains represent a real person or thing the author is against?"

Be on the look out for plot armor, protagonists who not only share their author's values but are not challenged on these views in any way, and the other major Sue factors covered in our [[Mary Sue]] article.

==="Right Target, Wrong Method" Characters===

One important partial exception: Sometimes authors include a character that can be considered "Edgy" in theory... but in practice, it's clear the author isn't rooting for them, because they take things '''way''' too far. We're talking "Utopia Justifies the Means, No Matter How Horrific" and "Death Penalty for Jaywalking"-type characters here. While they can degrade into regular Edgelords quite easily, as long as it's clear that either the author's sympathies are not with them, and/or the story spends a lot of time on the collateral damage they inflict, they can be considered not wish-fulfillment enough to count as Edgelords... although note that such characters, particularly if allowed to be a protagonist or in the hands of more than one author, tend to degrade into Edgelordery for subtly obvious reasons.

===Sidenote: Chunni===

In some Weeb circles, an "Edgelord" is called "Chuuni", short for "Chuunibyou". This delightful Japanese word combines the concepts of "Sophomoric" ("Chuunibyou" literally translated means "Middle [School] 2[nd Year] Syndrome") and "Edgelord", with an optional side note of "I have supernatural powers". Importantly, the "Stupid and Lame" part is baked right into the word, while "Edgelord" is usually only ''implies'' stupidity.

===In closing===
{{Topquote|So maybe ordinary people ''don't'' always crack. Maybe there ''isn't'' any need to crawl under a ''rock'' with all the ''other'' slimy things when trouble hits... maybe it was just ''you'', all the time|Batman, The Killing Joke}}

There are many paths to success for a storyteller, some of which include going over dark territory in various ways or by innovating and pushing boundaries. However, all of them require care and attention to detail to pull off well. Being dark or pushing boundaries is not profound in and of itself. A lack of dark content doesn't equal lack of profoundness (eg; some of Aesop's Fables). Shock value, twists and subverting expectations doesn't automatically equal good storytelling. Finally, using these things as an outlet for personal views/grievances is the writing equivalent of walking through a minefield.

==How Can I Tell If My Character Is An Edgelord?==

Every edgelord has at least four qualities; skilled at violence, moody, has easy access to weapons and are aggressively contrarian. While alone or even together these traits don't make an edgelord, each "Yes" answer from the list below gives your character a piece of edgelorddom:

* Are they either a power fantasy against or deliberately written to offend "The Man™" or "the establishment™"? (NOTE: With one exception below, and even if not targeting "the establishment™"/targeting enemies of theirs such as criminals, '''a "yes" answer here automatically grants the character edgelord status.''')
** Bonus points if the writer goes after ''the usual targets''; [[Capitalism|big business]], organized [[religion]], the education system or law enforcement. Double bonus points if they're a real-life example from the above, triple bonus points if they've already been frequently targeted in media (eg; oil companies, the Catholic Church, strict schoolteachers or the police) and quadruple bonus points if its a mix (such as Catholic boarding schools).
** The one exception are characters who '''start out''' as merely mildly edgy (particularly antagonists of the "right target, wrong methods" variety), and only graduate to full edgelord status if other writers are allowed access to them or the current writer gets carried away.
* Do they openly mock altruistic traits (like hope and love)? Compromise? faith or the Powers-That-Be? Bonus points if they do so without suffering negative consequences for it.
* Do they have a backstory dominated by abuse they suffered (often trotted out as an excuse for their violent contrarianism)?
* Are forgiveness and redemption things the character disregards, if not actively despises?
** Partial credit if they're seeking redemption... but only changing their targets instead of their approach or methods.
* Do they not care if they live or die? Or do they want to die?
* Do they have problems with authority? As in a negative attitude towards anyone else having authority over them.
* Are they heavily scarred individuals? (physical, emotional, whatever...)
* Do they regularly quote-mine philosophers or works of fiction and spout these quotes to validate their worldview?
* Do they share any of the same beliefs as the work's creator and openly express them? (for example, the protagonists of stories by [[Ayn Rand]] or [[Jack Chick]]). Bonus points if they're nihilistic. <ref>This item is more a [[Mary Sue]] trope, but there is significant overlap between edgelords and Mary Sues.</ref>
** Are these views never challenged or refuted in the story? Or are the challengers clearly strawmen, including tarring the entire group with the same brush as an extremist minority?
** The [[Star Trek]] Captain Exception: If said belief is cleanly confined to one speech towards the end of the story/episode, and the author seems to be legitimately trying to just sum up and state the message of the story, it usually doesn't count. (Normally not an issue for edgelords, but it has happened occasionally.)
* Do they always wear sinister-looking attire? Bonus points if the outfit;
** Includes a cloak or a long trenchcoat (think Neo's from the Matrix films).
** Has [[Chaos|built-in blades or spikes]]
** Includes a fedora
*** Any other excessively Cool Hat counts for half-credit--and yes, this does include Judge Dredd's Helmet.
** Is covered in insults, profanities, curses or threats
** Has tailored-on violent, anarchic or sacrilegious imagery
** Incorporates or is made of others' body parts
** Is alive (especially if it's a monster in clothing form or possessed)
* Do they wear warpaint?
* Do they have body modification, ranging from minor such as tattoos to extreme examples such as horns or wings? Bonus points if the modifications can be weaponized.
* Do they swear like a drunk pirate?
* Do they have an "adult" vice such as drinking or smoking (fantastical ones count). Bonus points if its an addiction.
* Do they have plot armor? (such as the Punisher being able to go toe-to-toe against superpowered beings who’d mop the floor with him otherwise)
* Are they a protagonist or antagonist written by [[Gav Thorpe]], Garth Ennis, Mark Millar, [[A Song of Ice and Fire|George RR Martin]], Garth Ennis or Alan Moore? Honorable mention: [[Judge Dredd|Pat Mills]] (Note, an edgelord can be written by someone who's none of these people. And Moore and Martin, at least, are capable of writing protagonists and antagonists who aren't Edgelords despite lots of their characters being unnecessarily edgy.)

==Notable Edgelords==

===Comics===
* The Punisher (pictured above), depending on the writer but especially when it's Garth Ennis. The ultimate example being Ennis' professionally published Hate Fic [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punisher_Kills_the_Marvel_Universe "Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe"].
* Billy Butcher from "The Boys", a comic series written by the edgelord Punisher author named above using [[Original character, do not steal|knock-offs of Marvel and DC supers]] in an anti-superhero genre power fantasy. Billy himself leads the titular group, and is a racist Punisher knock-off and author mouthpiece.
* The Joker, depending on the writer.
** Batman can be made into an edgelord in a edgy writer's hands (for example, Frank Miller's "All Star Batman And Robin"), although more rarely than you might think, since his respect for the part of the establishment - owning Wayne Enterprises and his respectful alliace with Police Commissioner Gordon - and his "no kill" code usually heads off most of the worst edgelord tendencies.
* Lord Edgelord, later Lord Edgegod from Slackwyrm Keep. He's aware, and <s>he's loving it</s><span style='color:red;font-size:100%'>***CLANG!*** There's no love in edge, only chaos!</span>
* Adversary from DC comics (pictured below), as a jab at edgelord characters and perhaps also their fans. In addition to meeting most of the criteria above, he works for a demon named Lord Satanus who gave him his powers and is actually a kid in a wheelchair.

===Film===
* Jared Leto's Joker in "Suicide Squad (2016)".
** Compare this to Heath Ledger's Joker in ''The Dark Knight'' and Joqauin Phoenix's Joker in ''Joker''. Ledger's and Phoenix's portrayals were "edge with a point"; the former was about exploring human evils regarding terrorism and the latter was about exploring the origins of evil (both avoiding ideological baggage).
* Tyler Durden from "Fight Club". While he started out as "edge with a point" trying to give men catharsis from, and criticizing, the growing cultural and familial vacuum of the 90's, later in the film he descended into being a full-blown edgelord.
* [[Star Wars|Kylo Ren]] AKA Krylo Ben AKA Ben Swolo. The writers were doing it on purpose, to play up the First Order's dogmatic North Korea in space schtick, and to that end made Kylo an incredibly unsubtle Darth Vader pastiche. While "Kylo" may be the worst Skywalker ever, there is no denying that the edge is strong in his family. His mom's side are a bunch of crybaby desert backworlders with an incestuous sex drive and his dad was a scruffy, nerf herding spice smuggler - and all were war criminals, some with body counts in the hundred thousands and some with children's blood on their hands... He probably fits the mold better than we'd like to admit. Also his edge is undermined by fact that he never won a fight against [[Mary_Sue|Mar-Rey Sue Palpatine]] which doesn’t help things either.
* Peter and Paul from "Funny Games". Another "cool psycho gang that tortures, kills and dismembers a family" sort of director's wank which ups to eleven: when the woman in desperation manages to kill one, the other literally turns back time, and kills her child and husband, THEN tortures, gags, takes her for a boat ride and drowns her for fun, go to the next house and wink at the camera while acting happy and nonchalant, to start the cycle a new. Director Haneke has stated that the film is a reflection and criticism of violence used in media and definitely not getting his rocks off torturing a whitebread white woman with a family and gagging, killing, and raping her. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight (then again this is a tame letdown compared to what a hardcore gorehound would watch, with cinematography purposely ruining any payoff. Very messed while also giving a middle finger to [[Slannesh]] Worshipers as no rape occurs in the film). Oh, and he enjoyed it so much he remade HIS OWN MOVIE; after the original 1997 German language version he made a 2008 English version.
* "The Strangers" from the 2008 The Strangers movie. Literally a bunch of home invaders invade a couple's home, beat, torture and kill the husband, unmask themselves to the wife, act all chill and cute, act cool to a bible tract distributing kid and talk about "it will be easier next time". They are never found, never bested, and simply put, get away with everything in a "cool teenager" attitude.

===Live Action TV===
* Stargate's Sohkar- It's hard to get more edgelord than literally masquerading/cosplaying as Satan.

===Video Games===
* [[/v/|Shadow the Hedgehog]] for the PS2/XBox/Gamecube. For the unfamiliar: An edgy game about a radical edgelordy cartoon hedgehog shooting enemies, yet ESRB rated for Everyone 10 and up.
** The villain Infinite from ''Sonic Forces'', as a parody of edgy Villain Sue characters.
* Several characters from World of Warcraft, prime individuals being Deathwing, Sylvanas, Sargeras and Illidan Stormrage (pictured below). There's also edgy groups including the Forsaken, Death Knights and Demon Hunters (Illidan even founded the latter).
** Special mention goes to pre-retcon Sargeras. Originally, Sargeras was so traumatized by the evil of the demons he fought... [[Stupid Evil|he became convinced that good was futile and conscripted those same demons into an army to destroy the cosmos]]).
* Reaper from Overwatch. For whatever reason he cannot die, as he constantly regenerates his tissues (with an advanced necrosis, so he's basically sort of sci-fi undead). Of course, he blames his former friends from Overwatch (like he never considered it COULD be some side effect from supersoldier genetic modifications he'd received before forming of the Overwatch, even moreso when the shady scientist who modified him also joined Talon) for his sorry condition, so he became fixated on revenge and killing. Also, he was super jealous for his best friend, who was getting all the praise, while he was getting his hands dirty.
* Caesar's Legion and Caesar himself in [[Fallout|Fallout: New Vegas]] (along with some of their fans and the writer who created them).
* Not Important aka The Antagonist aka The Crusader from Hatred. Imagine every trope related to nihilistic spree shooters, push them to their uncomfortable extremes and then plop the result in a monochromatic mess of a game. What you get is the story about a very unlikable man with dialogue written by less likeable people (including an edgy as fuck death metal band) going around and killing everyone because...fuck you, it's edgy.

===Literature===
* [[Elric]] of Melnibone, arguably the first one.
* Euron Greyjoy, Littlefinger, and Ramsay Bolton from [[A Song of Ice and Fire]].
* Hamlet (yes, THAT Hamlet), possibly an example predating Elric. After his father dies dies, he wears black, becomes foreboding, dramatic and revenge obsessed for at least 6 months, monologues with skulls and murders his friends including the harmless father of his girlfriend (though to be fair he thought he was stabbing the man who he suspected killed his father).

===Tabletop Games===
* [[Blackguard]]s
* Vlaakith, the Queen of the [[Githyanki]]. On top of being a callous, violent, paranoid tyrannical lich, she hates systems of authority but wants to be goddess of her people [[What|despite hating religion most of all]]. She values strength... but kills people who ''might'' become powerful enough to challenge her; textbook edgelord.
* [[Lolth]] from Dungeons and Dragons. Started with trying to overthrow her divine husband because she didn't like her job and it all went downhill from there. For more information, look at the [[Drow]] and remember they're like that because her laws require it.
* Warhammer settings have too many to list them all;
** 40k is the worst offender, with groups such as the [[Black Templars]], the [[Marines Malevolent]] and most [[Chaos Space Marine|traitor marines]].
*** In particular, there's [[Konrad Curze]]...
*** ...[[Fabius Bile]]...
*** ...and the [[Dark Eldar]], each to such a degree they each deserve a separate bullet point all to themselves.
** For Warhammer Fantasy there's [[Valnir the Reaper]], [[Nagash]] and most [[Dark Elves]]. (None of whom are quite so ''needlessly'' edgy as to deserve their own separate bullet points, unlike the 40k Edgelords above.<ref>Nagash might come close, but is presented as more "he's just an asshole", compared to the "he might have a point" presentation of Bile or full Tragic Backstory of Curze. A similar point can be made about the Dark Elves (just assholes) compared to the Dark Eldar (who need to feed Slaanesh because if they don't s/he eats them).</ref>)
** On that note, [[Malal]] among the other [[Chaos Gods|Ruinous Powers]].

===Fan Works===
* [[Drizzt]] clones with extreme Alignment leanings, either towards good or evil.
* Various [[Original character, do not steal|fan-made]] and canon Sonic characters, particularly Shadow.
* The protagonist of "Ambience: A Fleet Symphony" and the story itself. A Fallout KanColle crossover fanfic that thinks it's a regular KanColle fanfic. It revolves around rape, killing, eugenics and an violent solipsistic protagonist with enough plot armor to make Ciaphas Cain look like a [[Star Trek|redshirt]] one day away from retirement. When the story was posted to a forum and scorned, the writer went ballistic against their critics.
* The whole "*teleports behind you* Nothing personal kid. *stabs you*" [[meme]] originated as a parody of edgelord characters.

===Anime===
* Half of the [[Animu]] protagonists in existence. Bonus points if the genre is [[Isekai]], triple points if there's a harem involved.
* As a general trend: Vegeta, of Dragonball Z started a long term trend in Shonen anime and manga for "edgy badboy antagonistic rival" (who usually either starts out or winds up as a full-on (anti)villain) characters who are frequently more popular than the milktoast main character, especially in fanfiction. Examples include Sasuke Uchiha of Naruto, Bakugo from My Hero Academia, and, going further afield, Riku from Kingdom Hearts (/v/, rather than /a/, if a very /a/ shaded /v/), and Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender (a Western example modeled on the type). Note that not all of them qualify for full "Edgelord", as many of them are merely ''mildly'' edgy, but it's a frequent enough vein of Edgelords that we need to mention it here. Particular mention should be made of...
** Bakugo from My Hero Academia, who probably counts as a deconstruction/parody of one. What else do you say about somebody who chooses the codename "King of Explodo-Kills" and later "Great Explosion Murder God Dynamight" while training to be a super'''hero'''?
* Keyaru from Redo of Healer deserves a spot for causing a localized [[Warp Storm|shitstorm]] involving massive levels of [[skub]] in the anime fandom. He's a healing slave who was physically and sexually abused until he finds out a [[Mary Sue|loophole in his magic to resets time]] and fulfills his fantasy. Keyaru believes that since history was reset, he can't take revenge for acts that were not commited; and in a twisted leap of logic, instead of preventing those things from happening, he decides to make sure his abusers actually repeat their wrongdoings (which include several months of sexual abuse while drugged in a filthy cell) so he feels justified when he inflicts his own kind of revenge. Revenge such as: breaking all the fingers of a princess, THEN healing them and start anew, THEN [[rape|raping]] her repeatedly, THEN erasing her personality and make her his sex slave; or turn a guard into a little girl, and turns all his men into [[Slaanesh |horny rape zombies]], and has him raped to death, while he torches the building to make sure no one survives; or lock an enfeebled knight lady in a room with brainwashed, sex-crazed hungry [[Cannibalism|cannibals]], and promises her he will free her if she manages to satisfy them sexually all night long. She gets devoured by midnight. And the list keeps going. Of course, Keyaru will say that hatred is what gets him going and revenge is the best feeling in the world, next to sex and eating. When [[Grimdark|his whole home village gets razed in retaliation for the princess]], he's actually overjoyed to finally have a justification to brutally murder THE WHOLE ARMY; he only manages to save a single boy from his village, but he makes sure the boy holds a grudge on him, because in his words [[derp|"Only hatred can wash up the sadness of losing all your loved ones"]]. Truly an endgelord among edgelords.

===Notable NOT Edgelords===

* '''Cad Bane''' (Star Wars The Clone Wars): Bounty hunter who once killed a guy in front of their brother just to get his fedora back (''"What are you lookin' at? It's a nice hat."''). Not an edgelord because he's perfectly happy to work for the establishment as long as the establishment is the highest bidder.

* '''Bronn/Ser Bronn of the Blackwater''' (A Song of Ice and Fire): Snarky mercenary who would kill a baby for the right price. Not an edgelord because he'll also work for the establishment - and does for much of the story - plus his SOLE focus in life is looking out for number one; he loves life and doesn't want to die.

[[Category:Gamer Slang]]

==Gallery==
<gallery>
File:Lord_of_the_edge_by_takfloyd-d99sq48.png|The edgelord mindset in a nutshell.
File:1699592-elric_of_melnibone_by_isra2007.jpg|If any fictional edgelord could be called well-written, it'd be Elric.
File:Adversary_01.jpg|"Adversary" from DC Comics. Sinister clothes, aggressive name, smoking, swearing, trying to kill Superman for "rep"...
File:Tyler-durden-7.jpg|The face that launched a thousand edgelords (ironically doesn't wear dark clothes).
File:Darion Mograine.jpg|There's a small but distinct line between edgy...
File:531939-vertical-blizzard-wallpapers-2560x1440.jpg|... and edgelord.
</gallery>

Edgy

2021-08-25T07:13:28Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:D84A:82E4:C2F4:4BF8: /* Notable NOT Edgelords */

{{Topquote|As far as I can make out "edgy" occurs when middlebrow, middle-aged profiteers are looking to suck the energy--not to mention the spending money--out of the "youth culture." So they come up with this fake concept of "seeming to be dangerous when every move they make is the result of market research and a corporate master plan".|[[Daria 40k|Daria]], Episode [3.05] The Lost Girls.}}

{{Topquote|My name is Not Important; what is important is what I'm going to do. I just fucking hate this world, and the human worms feasting on its carcass. My whole life is just cold, bitter hatred, and I always wanted to die violently. This is the time of vengeance, and no life is worth saving, and I will put in the grave as many as I can. It's time for me to kill and it's time for me to die; my genocide crusade begins... here!|The player character of ''Hatred''}}

{{Topquote|Make it [[World of Darkness|dark]], make it [[Grimdark|grim]], make it [[ANGRY MARINES|tough]] but then, for the love of God, [[Comedy Marines|tell a joke]].|Joss Whedon giving a nice example on how to avoid being edgy even while creating a dark world}}

[[File:Marvel Edge.jpg|200px|thumb|left|Unabashed Edginess from the 1990s]]
'''Edginess''' refers to people pushing violent and controversial subject matter in their stories, especially when they're doing it to to try and be popular with tragic, violent or controversial stories. This often takes the form of senselessly driving a vague argument, a plotline or a scenario to its darkest possible outcome, all the while openly expressing their disdain for whoever "the establishment" is, rationalizing villains or finding a middle ground in discourses. Like most internet terminology, it has been beaten to death, resurrected hastily, and then beaten some more. Has no relation to ''[[Hunter: The Reckoning]]''.

Another far less negative use of the term is to describe something on the 'edge' of what's acceptable, pushing established boundaries of convention. For example, by this definition ''Batman: The Animated Series'' was edgy for making an animated series which defied expectations of how true to its base concept and generally well-written a show designed to sell toys could be. Some more examples of this would be Ren and Stimpy (which was crude and vulgar) or Invader Zim (which could get dark in subject matter, and used a fair bit of black humor); in both cases, a decent bit of the comedy was of the "I can't believe that they did ''THAT'' on a kid's cartoon show!" variety. A milder version of this was Sonic the Hedgehog in contrast to Mario. In 1989 the Simpsons was the Edgy take on the classic family sitcom archetype and in 1999 Family Guy had slotted itself in as the Edgy version of The Simpsons. For the 1990s and early 2000s Edgy was a favored term of cynical marketing types which drew the attention of the world's sarcastic snarkers and contrarians, many of which came to congregate on sites such as 4chan.

An "edgelord" is someone who essentially is guilty of serial attempts to be edgy, like [[that guy]] at your tabletop role playing group who always, without fail, makes a specific type of self insert or wish fulfillment character; brooding, antisocial, militant types with problems with authority and a troubled past - all without the nuance or skill to actually pull it off (with their opponents often being stand-ins for whoever the edgelord considers "The Man™" or representing "the establishment™", usually big business, law enforcement or organized religion). The end result is they makes themselves look silly.

"Art" done by edgelords contain characters who are as dark, brooding and as painfully unhappy as possible, conflicts have zero compromise, institutions are the villains unless the edgelord made them and any conflict of interest will have the worst possible outcome. In writing, edgelords will go out of their way to make the story extra depressing, and subject multiple aspects of it to an increased shock factor when it's clearly '''illogical''' to do so. Needless to say, it can drive a perfect idea to make an entertaining story into the shitter, grating the nerves of even the most jaded audience. When commenting, the "edgelord" will simply push any predicament in the artwork to the darkest, deepest, worst outcome, while describing his fantasies. For example: In an adult and/or bondage predicament picture, edgelords can be found describing a paragraph of horrible fate the captive would suffer, *should* suffer because slaves are shit, and *deserve* abuse, even when the picture was of a predicament with nothing in context. Or he will simply fill the comment of any NSFW picture with his own sick fantasies, surely adding "women DESERVE it".

This is not to say that said dark elements like murder, slavery, extremism and rape are bad for literature, but rather that their sloppy execution with no regard to their depth is. As shown above, even the most "edgelord" of concepts can be salvaged and even made bearable with proper handling, especially going by the latter definition - but if you do it enough, the boundaries shift and what was edgy becomes the new norm, and there is always the risk of falling ''over'' the edge. This is why the old definition has fallen increasingly out of favor as time has gone on — people began seeing the dross sold under the title of "edgy", and the idea of what it meant thus moved away from the positive connotations marketing execs desired and closer to the qualities described above. Plus, this is the internet, and people would rather a word just be an insult or a compliment to reduce confusion.

==The Anatomy of Edginess==
Edginess is in some ways like a cargo cult. During WWII in the Pacific, the US military set up bases on remote, but inhabited islands, bringing with them a lot of stuff like planes and cars and so forth that was quite amazing to the stone age natives, to whom the world had been a few dozen square kilometers of land surrounded by ocean, with hazy stories of other such islands. When the military left, some of the natives took to making coconut and wooden radios and flight towers based off of some vague recollection of the military variants, unaware that making the shape alone does not get you the functional item.

[[File:Pizza-slicer.jpg|200px|thumb|right|The ultimate apotheosis of an edgelord: All edge, no point.]]
In that vein, most of what comes to mind when people envision "edgy" artworks tends to be the result of people who wanted to make ''morally grey'' characters and subject matter, but lack the maturity/experience/focus necessary to NOT end up with anything other than a multiple-personality-disordered mess or a power fantasy wrapped in propaganda. Someone with (at best) mediocre creative abilities sees some fiction that makes good use of melodrama, gritty settings, dark humor and such, made by people who know what the hell they're doing and figures "I can do that!", leading to said person haphazardly applying those elements incorrectly. The results of such efforts are either tiresome, unintentionally funny or just painful. The stereotypical teenager, especially one with gothic/emo tendencies or problems with authority, commonly embody this - all too eager for "adult" things (eg: violence, sex, etc.) in their limited perception of such, often born of denial. Individuals who pander to said demographic (or are otherwise just downright hacks) will favor this approach over any sense of complexity, subtlety, nuance and some actual understanding of the human condition.

===Edgy and [[Grimdark]]===
While edginess is frequently associated with invoking grimdark [[Derp|for the sake of it and nothing else]], it's important to remember that this alone does not edgy make. As an example, [[WH40K]]'s [[Imperium of Man]] has reasons to be fair and kind when capable: though it has plenty of genocide, xenocide (completely annihilating species even when they are gentle and kind), torture, forced labor (they draw the line at commercialized chattel slavery, but un-unionized indentured servitude is fair game), witch hunts and militarism that would give Hitler a chubby beyond the grave, said horrors have reasonable justifications. Aliens were buying and selling humans like pets and culling them by the billion, operating slaver outposts even in our solar system before the Emperor came into leading humanity into a roaring rampage of revenge. And regarding souls and the universe after the Heresy, any deviation from faith in the Emperor will ''literally'' send a human to hell upon death, with their soul becoming dæmon food (and/or sex toys).

Any mistreated machinery will attract foul entities and corruption that will fuck you up seven ways till Monday and chew you out; any ill-coaxed [[Machine Spirit]] will jam and blow up in your face; and any laxity will make [[Chaos]] cults pop up by the billion in a week. Then there's [[Necrons|the genocidal robots from another age]], [[Eldar|space elves that would murder a planet on the off chance that their]] [[Farseer]] would break a nail otherwise (and they're still the nice space elves despite that, as their [[Dark Eldar|webway dwelling cousins are even worse - murdering entire planets just because they like the sound of millions of people screaming]]), [[Orks|the ambulatory (AND belligerent) fungi that plague the entire galaxy in a series of wars]], and [[Tyranids|extragalactic horrors that intend to eat everyone's face.]] [[TL;DR]] The Imperium acts like an asshole Hitler/Hirohito bastard child because the alternative is much, MUCH worse.

At the level of narrative, the fact that things are very very bad is a core thematic element of this world. As pointed out there are reasons why things are so miserable in this world which flow logically and despite this there can be points of contrast. Imperials still have the same potential to love and be kind like modern real world humans do. The Tau are hopeful despite the evils of this world. Occasionally pragmatism can overcome the deep seeded prejudices to overcome greater evils, if only for a while. And even if it is preformed by Conscript Guardsmen, Commissars or Space Marines, each the product of horrendous military institutions, can fight to achieve acts of genuine (if still typically brutal) heroism.

Now if you want a senselessly edgy story in the Warhammer 40,000 universe, an example would be the now non-canon [[Khornate Knights]].

===Who's An Edgelord?===
<small>Who's a cute little Edgelord? Yes, you, you adorable little mass-murderer, you!</small>

"Edgelord" gets applied to two groups: '''Authors''' fixated on making edgy material, and the '''Edgy characters''' they write. While most of this article assumes the latter definition (as we at least try to avoid authorial mind-reading), it's quite possible for an Edgelord author to create an edgy work without an Edgelord character<ref>How? Well, just to start with, picture a modern retelling of The Little Match Girl (the one where the title character freezes to death on the street--looking back on it, Hans Christian Anderson was Edgelord as fuck).</ref>, and a non-Edgelord author to create an Edgelord character (either unintentionally, satirically, or de-constructively).

===Edgy Villains===

There's an important argument to be made about villains and edginess. Frequently, it's necessary to engage in authorial behavior that would be considered edgy in order to properly develop a bad guy. There are a few important questions to ask in this case, the largest ones being "is this a [[Mary Sue|Villain Sue]] situation, and if so, what kind of Villain Sue are we dealing with?"<ref>For an example of a non-Edgelord Villain Sue, there are plenty of Villain Sues who the author clearly hates, but can't bring themselves to kill off for reasons of marketability. It's usually only when the Doylist definition of Mary Sue comes into play, where the Author sees themselves as the villain and has more sympathy for them than the protagonist, that Edgelordery starts to set in.</ref> and "are the author's sympathies clearly with the villain's agenda?"<ref>Not with the villain himself; plenty of villains clearly have the author's sympathy (what [[TVTropes]] might call a "Villain Woobie" or "Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds"); what matters here is does the author believe what the villain believes. That may sound odd, but many cases of "The Bad Guy Was Right" involve characters created by another author, or are (usually bad) parody of such.</ref>

===Edgelords and [[Mary Sue]]s===

A lot of edgy characters also qualify as [[Mary Sue]]s. This is because many writers who aim for "edgy" in their works are terrible at writing, and writing a [[Mary Sue]] is a common result of terrible writing. Another reason is the "Power Fantasy" route, where the author uses their work and the character in question to attack something or someone from real-life that they oppose. There are a few important questions to ask in this case, the largest ones being "is this a Jerk Sue situation?", "do the villains represent a work the author hates?" and "do the villains represent a real person or thing the author is against?"

Be on the look out for plot armor, protagonists who not only share their author's values but are not challenged on these views in any way, and the other major Sue factors covered in our [[Mary Sue]] article.

==="Right Target, Wrong Method" Characters===

One important partial exception: Sometimes authors include a character that can be considered "Edgy" in theory... but in practice, it's clear the author isn't rooting for them, because they take things '''way''' too far. We're talking "Utopia Justifies the Means, No Matter How Horrific" and "Death Penalty for Jaywalking"-type characters here. While they can degrade into regular Edgelords quite easily, as long as it's clear that either the author's sympathies are not with them, and/or the story spends a lot of time on the collateral damage they inflict, they can be considered not wish-fulfillment enough to count as Edgelords... although note that such characters, particularly if allowed to be a protagonist or in the hands of more than one author, tend to degrade into Edgelordery for subtly obvious reasons.

===Sidenote: Chunni===

In some Weeb circles, an "Edgelord" is called "Chuuni", short for "Chuunibyou". This delightful Japanese word combines the concepts of "Sophomoric" ("Chuunibyou" literally translated means "Middle [School] 2[nd Year] Syndrome") and "Edgelord", with an optional side note of "I have supernatural powers". Importantly, the "Stupid and Lame" part is baked right into the word, while "Edgelord" is usually only ''implies'' stupidity.

===In closing===
{{Topquote|So maybe ordinary people ''don't'' always crack. Maybe there ''isn't'' any need to crawl under a ''rock'' with all the ''other'' slimy things when trouble hits... maybe it was just ''you'', all the time|Batman, The Killing Joke}}

There are many paths to success for a storyteller, some of which include going over dark territory in various ways or by innovating and pushing boundaries. However, all of them require care and attention to detail to pull off well. Being dark or pushing boundaries is not profound in and of itself. A lack of dark content doesn't equal lack of profoundness (eg; some of Aesop's Fables). Shock value, twists and subverting expectations doesn't automatically equal good storytelling. Finally, using these things as an outlet for personal views/grievances is the writing equivalent of walking through a minefield.

==How Can I Tell If My Character Is An Edgelord?==

Every edgelord has at least four qualities; skilled at violence, moody, has easy access to weapons and are aggressively contrarian. While alone or even together these traits don't make an edgelord, each "Yes" answer from the list below gives your character a piece of edgelorddom:

* Are they either a power fantasy against or deliberately written to offend "The Man™" or "the establishment™"? (NOTE: With one exception below, and even if not targeting "the establishment™"/targeting enemies of theirs such as criminals, '''a "yes" answer here automatically grants the character edgelord status.''')
** Bonus points if the writer goes after ''the usual targets''; [[Capitalism|big business]], organized [[religion]], the education system or law enforcement. Double bonus points if they're a real-life example from the above, triple bonus points if they've already been frequently targeted in media (eg; oil companies, the Catholic Church, strict schoolteachers or the police) and quadruple bonus points if its a mix (such as Catholic boarding schools).
** The one exception are characters who '''start out''' as merely mildly edgy (particularly antagonists of the "right target, wrong methods" variety), and only graduate to full edgelord status if other writers are allowed access to them or the current writer gets carried away.
* Do they openly mock altruistic traits (like hope and love)? Compromise? faith or the Powers-That-Be? Bonus points if they do so without suffering negative consequences for it.
* Do they have a backstory dominated by abuse they suffered (often trotted out as an excuse for their violent contrarianism)?
* Are forgiveness and redemption things the character disregards, if not actively despises?
** Partial credit if they're seeking redemption... but only changing their targets instead of their approach or methods.
* Do they not care if they live or die? Or do they want to die?
* Do they have problems with authority? As in a negative attitude towards anyone else having authority over them.
* Are they heavily scarred individuals? (physical, emotional, whatever...)
* Do they regularly quote-mine philosophers or works of fiction and spout these quotes to validate their worldview?
* Do they share any of the same beliefs as the work's creator and openly express them? (for example, the protagonists of stories by [[Ayn Rand]] or [[Jack Chick]]). Bonus points if they're nihilistic. <ref>This item is more a [[Mary Sue]] trope, but there is significant overlap between edgelords and Mary Sues.</ref>
** Are these views never challenged or refuted in the story? Or are the challengers clearly strawmen, including tarring the entire group with the same brush as an extremist minority?
** The [[Star Trek]] Captain Exception: If said belief is cleanly confined to one speech towards the end of the story/episode, and the author seems to be legitimately trying to just sum up and state the message of the story, it usually doesn't count. (Normally not an issue for edgelords, but it has happened occasionally.)
* Do they always wear sinister-looking attire? Bonus points if the outfit;
** Includes a cloak or a long trenchcoat (think Neo's from the Matrix films).
** Has [[Chaos|built-in blades or spikes]]
** Includes a fedora
*** Any other excessively Cool Hat counts for half-credit--and yes, this does include Judge Dredd's Helmet.
** Is covered in insults, profanities, curses or threats
** Has tailored-on violent, anarchic or sacrilegious imagery
** Incorporates or is made of others' body parts
** Is alive (especially if it's a monster in clothing form or possessed)
* Do they wear warpaint?
* Do they have body modification, ranging from minor such as tattoos to extreme examples such as horns or wings? Bonus points if the modifications can be weaponized.
* Do they swear like a drunk pirate?
* Do they have an "adult" vice such as drinking or smoking (fantastical ones count). Bonus points if its an addiction.
* Do they have plot armor? (such as the Punisher being able to go toe-to-toe against superpowered beings who’d mop the floor with him otherwise)
* Are they a protagonist or antagonist written by [[Gav Thorpe]], Garth Ennis, Mark Millar, [[A Song of Ice and Fire|George RR Martin]], Garth Ennis or Alan Moore? Honorable mention: [[Judge Dredd|Pat Mills]] (Note, an edgelord can be written by someone who's none of these people. And Moore and Martin, at least, are capable of writing protagonists and antagonists who aren't Edgelords despite lots of their characters being unnecessarily edgy.)

==Notable Edgelords==

===Comics===
* The Punisher (pictured above), depending on the writer but especially when it's Garth Ennis. The ultimate example being Ennis' professionally published Hate Fic [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punisher_Kills_the_Marvel_Universe "Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe"].
* Billy Butcher from "The Boys", a comic series written by the edgelord Punisher author named above using [[Original character, do not steal|knock-offs of Marvel and DC supers]] in an anti-superhero genre power fantasy. Billy himself leads the titular group, and is a racist Punisher knock-off and author mouthpiece.
* The Joker, depending on the writer.
** Batman can be made into an edgelord in a edgy writer's hands (for example, Frank Miller's "All Star Batman And Robin"), although more rarely than you might think, since his usual respect for Police Commissioner Gordon and his "no kill" code usually heads off most of the worst edgelord tendencies.
* Lord Edgelord, later Lord Edgegod from Slackwyrm Keep. He's aware, and <s>he's loving it</s><span style='color:red;font-size:100%'>***CLANG!*** There's no love in edge, only chaos!</span>
* Adversary from DC comics (pictured below), as a jab at edgelord characters and perhaps also their fans. In addition to meeting most of the criteria above, he works for a demon named Lord Satanus who gave him his powers and is actually a kid in a wheelchair.

===Film===
* Jared Leto's Joker in "Suicide Squad (2016)".
** Compare this to Heath Ledger's Joker in ''The Dark Knight'' and Joqauin Phoenix's Joker in ''Joker''. Ledger's and Phoenix's portrayals were "edge with a point"; the former was about exploring human evils regarding terrorism and the latter was about exploring the origins of evil (both avoiding ideological baggage).
* Tyler Durden from "Fight Club". While he started out as "edge with a point" trying to give men catharsis from, and criticizing, the growing cultural and familial vacuum of the 90's, later in the film he descended into being a full-blown edgelord.
* [[Star Wars|Kylo Ren]] AKA Krylo Ben AKA Ben Swolo. The writers were doing it on purpose, to play up the First Order's dogmatic North Korea in space schtick, and to that end made Kylo an incredibly unsubtle Darth Vader pastiche. While "Kylo" may be the worst Skywalker ever, there is no denying that the edge is strong in his family. His mom's side are a bunch of crybaby desert backworlders with an incestuous sex drive and his dad was a scruffy, nerf herding spice smuggler - and all were war criminals, some with body counts in the hundred thousands and some with children's blood on their hands... He probably fits the mold better than we'd like to admit. Also his edge is undermined by fact that he never won a fight against [[Mary_Sue|Mar-Rey Sue Palpatine]] which doesn’t help things either.
* Peter and Paul from "Funny Games". Another "cool psycho gang that tortures, kills and dismembers a family" sort of director's wank which ups to eleven: when the woman in desperation manages to kill one, the other literally turns back time, and kills her child and husband, THEN tortures, gags, takes her for a boat ride and drowns her for fun, go to the next house and wink at the camera while acting happy and nonchalant, to start the cycle a new. Director Haneke has stated that the film is a reflection and criticism of violence used in media and definitely not getting his rocks off torturing a whitebread white woman with a family and gagging, killing, and raping her. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight (then again this is a tame letdown compared to what a hardcore gorehound would watch, with cinematography purposely ruining any payoff. Very messed while also giving a middle finger to [[Slannesh]] Worshipers as no rape occurs in the film). Oh, and he enjoyed it so much he remade HIS OWN MOVIE; after the original 1997 German language version he made a 2008 English version.
* "The Strangers" from the 2008 The Strangers movie. Literally a bunch of home invaders invade a couple's home, beat, torture and kill the husband, unmask themselves to the wife, act all chill and cute, act cool to a bible tract distributing kid and talk about "it will be easier next time". They are never found, never bested, and simply put, get away with everything in a "cool teenager" attitude.

===Live Action TV===
* Stargate's Sohkar- It's hard to get more edgelord than literally masquerading/cosplaying as Satan.

===Video Games===
* [[/v/|Shadow the Hedgehog]] for the PS2/XBox/Gamecube. For the unfamiliar: An edgy game about a radical edgelordy cartoon hedgehog shooting enemies, yet ESRB rated for Everyone 10 and up.
** The villain Infinite from ''Sonic Forces'', as a parody of edgy Villain Sue characters.
* Several characters from World of Warcraft, prime individuals being Deathwing, Sylvanas, Sargeras and Illidan Stormrage (pictured below). There's also edgy groups including the Forsaken, Death Knights and Demon Hunters (Illidan even founded the latter).
** Special mention goes to pre-retcon Sargeras. Originally, Sargeras was so traumatized by the evil of the demons he fought... [[Stupid Evil|he became convinced that good was futile and conscripted those same demons into an army to destroy the cosmos]]).
* Reaper from Overwatch. For whatever reason he cannot die, as he constantly regenerates his tissues (with an advanced necrosis, so he's basically sort of sci-fi undead). Of course, he blames his former friends from Overwatch (like he never considered it COULD be some side effect from supersoldier genetic modifications he'd received before forming of the Overwatch, even moreso when the shady scientist who modified him also joined Talon) for his sorry condition, so he became fixated on revenge and killing. Also, he was super jealous for his best friend, who was getting all the praise, while he was getting his hands dirty.
* Caesar's Legion and Caesar himself in [[Fallout|Fallout: New Vegas]] (along with some of their fans and the writer who created them).
* Not Important aka The Antagonist aka The Crusader from Hatred. Imagine every trope related to nihilistic spree shooters, push them to their uncomfortable extremes and then plop the result in a monochromatic mess of a game. What you get is the story about a very unlikable man with dialogue written by less likeable people (including an edgy as fuck death metal band) going around and killing everyone because...fuck you, it's edgy.

===Literature===
* [[Elric]] of Melnibone, arguably the first one.
* Euron Greyjoy, Littlefinger, and Ramsay Bolton from [[A Song of Ice and Fire]].
* Hamlet (yes, THAT Hamlet), possibly an example predating Elric. After his father dies dies, he wears black, becomes foreboding, dramatic and revenge obsessed for at least 6 months, monologues with skulls and murders his friends including the harmless father of his girlfriend (though to be fair he thought he was stabbing the man who he suspected killed his father).

===Tabletop Games===
* [[Blackguard]]s
* Vlaakith, the Queen of the [[Githyanki]]. On top of being a callous, violent, paranoid tyrannical lich, she hates systems of authority but wants to be goddess of her people [[What|despite hating religion most of all]]. She values strength... but kills people who ''might'' become powerful enough to challenge her; textbook edgelord.
* [[Lolth]] from Dungeons and Dragons. Started with trying to overthrow her divine husband because she didn't like her job and it all went downhill from there. For more information, look at the [[Drow]] and remember they're like that because her laws require it.
* Warhammer settings have too many to list them all;
** 40k is the worst offender, with groups such as the [[Black Templars]], the [[Marines Malevolent]] and most [[Chaos Space Marine|traitor marines]].
*** In particular, there's [[Konrad Curze]]...
*** ...[[Fabius Bile]]...
*** ...and the [[Dark Eldar]], each to such a degree they each deserve a separate bullet point all to themselves.
** For Warhammer Fantasy there's [[Valnir the Reaper]], [[Nagash]] and most [[Dark Elves]]. (None of whom are quite so ''needlessly'' edgy as to deserve their own separate bullet points, unlike the 40k Edgelords above.<ref>Nagash might come close, but is presented as more "he's just an asshole", compared to the "he might have a point" presentation of Bile or full Tragic Backstory of Curze. A similar point can be made about the Dark Elves (just assholes) compared to the Dark Eldar (who need to feed Slaanesh because if they don't s/he eats them).</ref>)
** On that note, [[Malal]] among the other [[Chaos Gods|Ruinous Powers]].

===Fan Works===
* [[Drizzt]] clones with extreme Alignment leanings, either towards good or evil.
* Various [[Original character, do not steal|fan-made]] and canon Sonic characters, particularly Shadow.
* The protagonist of "Ambience: A Fleet Symphony" and the story itself. A Fallout KanColle crossover fanfic that thinks it's a regular KanColle fanfic. It revolves around rape, killing, eugenics and an violent solipsistic protagonist with enough plot armor to make Ciaphas Cain look like a [[Star Trek|redshirt]] one day away from retirement. When the story was posted to a forum and scorned, the writer went ballistic against their critics.
* The whole "*teleports behind you* Nothing personal kid. *stabs you*" [[meme]] originated as a parody of edgelord characters.

===Anime===
* Half of the [[Animu]] protagonists in existence. Bonus points if the genre is [[Isekai]], triple points if there's a harem involved.
* As a general trend: Vegeta, of Dragonball Z started a long term trend in Shonen anime and manga for "edgy badboy antagonistic rival" (who usually either starts out or winds up as a full-on (anti)villain) characters who are frequently more popular than the milktoast main character, especially in fanfiction. Examples include Sasuke Uchiha of Naruto, Bakugo from My Hero Academia, and, going further afield, Riku from Kingdom Hearts (/v/, rather than /a/, if a very /a/ shaded /v/), and Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender (a Western example modeled on the type). Note that not all of them qualify for full "Edgelord", as many of them are merely ''mildly'' edgy, but it's a frequent enough vein of Edgelords that we need to mention it here. Particular mention should be made of...
** Bakugo from My Hero Academia, who probably counts as a deconstruction/parody of one. What else do you say about somebody who chooses the codename "King of Explodo-Kills" and later "Great Explosion Murder God Dynamight" while training to be a super'''hero'''?
* Keyaru from Redo of Healer deserves a spot for causing a localized [[Warp Storm|shitstorm]] involving massive levels of [[skub]] in the anime fandom. He's a healing slave who was physically and sexually abused until he finds out a [[Mary Sue|loophole in his magic to resets time]] and fulfills his fantasy. Keyaru believes that since history was reset, he can't take revenge for acts that were not commited; and in a twisted leap of logic, instead of preventing those things from happening, he decides to make sure his abusers actually repeat their wrongdoings (which include several months of sexual abuse while drugged in a filthy cell) so he feels justified when he inflicts his own kind of revenge. Revenge such as: breaking all the fingers of a princess, THEN healing them and start anew, THEN [[rape|raping]] her repeatedly, THEN erasing her personality and make her his sex slave; or turn a guard into a little girl, and turns all his men into [[Slaanesh |horny rape zombies]], and has him raped to death, while he torches the building to make sure no one survives; or lock an enfeebled knight lady in a room with brainwashed, sex-crazed hungry [[Cannibalism|cannibals]], and promises her he will free her if she manages to satisfy them sexually all night long. She gets devoured by midnight. And the list keeps going. Of course, Keyaru will say that hatred is what gets him going and revenge is the best feeling in the world, next to sex and eating. When [[Grimdark|his whole home village gets razed in retaliation for the princess]], he's actually overjoyed to finally have a justification to brutally murder THE WHOLE ARMY; he only manages to save a single boy from his village, but he makes sure the boy holds a grudge on him, because in his words [[derp|"Only hatred can wash up the sadness of losing all your loved ones"]]. Truly an endgelord among edgelords.

===Notable NOT Edgelords===

* '''Cad Bane''' (Star Wars The Clone Wars): Bounty hunter who once killed a guy in front of their brother just to get his fedora back (''"What are you lookin' at? It's a nice hat."''). Not an edgelord because he's perfectly happy to work for the establishment as long as the establishment is the highest bidder.

* '''Bronn/Ser Bronn of the Blackwater''' (A Song of Ice and Fire): Snarky mercenary who would kill a baby for the right price. Not an edgelord because he'll also work for the establishment - and does for much of the story - plus his SOLE focus in life is looking out for number one; he loves life and doesn't want to die.

[[Category:Gamer Slang]]

==Gallery==
<gallery>
File:Lord_of_the_edge_by_takfloyd-d99sq48.png|The edgelord mindset in a nutshell.
File:1699592-elric_of_melnibone_by_isra2007.jpg|If any fictional edgelord could be called well-written, it'd be Elric.
File:Adversary_01.jpg|"Adversary" from DC Comics. Sinister clothes, aggressive name, smoking, swearing, trying to kill Superman for "rep"...
File:Tyler-durden-7.jpg|The face that launched a thousand edgelords (ironically doesn't wear dark clothes).
File:Darion Mograine.jpg|There's a small but distinct line between edgy...
File:531939-vertical-blizzard-wallpapers-2560x1440.jpg|... and edgelord.
</gallery>

Blizzard

2021-08-25T00:37:01Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:D84A:82E4:C2F4:4BF8: /* Scandals */

{{/vg/}}
{{topquote|Imitation is the sincerest of flattery.|Charles C. Colton, ''Lacon: Or, Many Things in a Few Words: Addressed to Those Who Think''}}

{{Infobox Deity
|Name = Blizzard
|Symbol = [[File:Fluff Accurate.jpg|300px]]
|Alignment = Stupid Chaotic Evil
|Divine Rank = AAA
|Pantheon = Activision
|Portfolio =
|Domains = Greed, Falls From Grace, Bad Ideas, Terrible Writing (Formerly: Polish, Execution, Unoriginality)
|Home Plane = California
|Worshippers = Gamers,
|Favoured Weapon = Exploit worker, Union Breaker, Retcons, Virtue Signal, Weinsteinian culture, IP theft
}}

__NOTOC__
'''Blizzard Entertainment, Inc.''' is an American-owned servant of the PRC and [[/v/|video game]] developer founded in 1991. Consumed by corporate merger shenanigans in 2008, they are now a subsidiary of parent company Activision Blizzard. They are well known in the gaming community for rising to prominence by shamelessly ripping off a long list of things, the most pertinent to [[/tg/]] being the similarity between its flagship franchises and ''[[Warhammer 40k]]''. Blizzard is akin to Apple Inc.: they never ''really'' did anything original, and instead took inspiration/borrowed/stole content from other sources, marketing it as though they're pretty much posterboys of the brand, and took the credit for being "pioneers of said genre". [[Games Workshop|Let it not be said they didn't steal their business/creative practices from the best]].

While not as skubtastic as [[Kaldor Draigo|the]] [[Matt Ward|other]] [[Grey Knights|things]] [[Ultramarines|present]], it still does cause tensions in /tg/ when brought up. Especially if it concerns one of their games' [[fluff]].

While Blizzard does [[Blood Ravens|"borrow"]] other people's ideas, there's no denying marketing spends a lot of time and effort studying those ideas, figuring why they are successful, and what parts of these ideas should be improved or removed to make them better. This leads to creating a few extremely well done and successful games, in turn earning a [[Profit|LOT of money]]. While other studios may create revolutionary content, Blizzard is more about ''evolution,'' with their games becoming golden standards of quality, and "easy to learn, hard to master" learning curves. They are also responsible for creating the game-dev meme ''"when it's done,"'' which means they could literally spend a decade on mismanagement one game, probably spending too much time doing drugs in the office, and another decade to force the dev team into crunch with a shit-ton of balance patches, while management pisses off to GDC but it's to be expected, given all other major game developers are the same, if not [[EA|much, much worse]].

[[Skub|There's contention]] between the legions of GW and the hordes of Blizzard in regards to copyrights, who invented which idea first, and whether any ripping-off in fact occurred. Facts seem to lean in the direction of yes, actually. Blizzard's co founder Allen Adham wanted to get the license to the Warhammer Universe however the [https://kotaku.com/how-warcraft-was-almost-a-warhammer-game-and-how-that-5929161 business side of the deal fell through], and the team wasn't keen on working for someone else. The exaggerated features and painted art style of the table top minis was adapted for low poly games. It boggles the mind that there still hasn't been legal trouble for this, and leads many to speculate that there's an off the books deal. Fa/tg/uys tend to accuse Blizzard of ripping off most of [[Games Workshop]]'s content, and they're right. They often write long angry posts about why Blizzard an evil company, what was stolen from their precious settings, and why Blizzard games sucks so much. But this is normal operating procedure for khornporation, Ip for the Ip throne after all. This sounds hilarious when you think about Games Workshop, who does steal '''all''' of its content from other settings. Blizzard only concentrates what's awesome about James Workshop and repackages it after doing minimal rework.

If you ever meet a raging fan, crying about plagiarism, <s>ignore the fucking troll</s> [[lulz|throw oil on the fire and get a-trolling]]. Alternatively, keep raging about [[The Ultimate Necron Cheese List|Necron Flyer Lists]]/[[rage|Terran Hellion Drop]] imbalance.

'''TL;DR''': Good [[crunch]], meh fluff (their memorable humor is arguably the best part of it), they are the [[Tzeentch]]/[[Slaanesh]] to GW's [[Nurgle]].

==Scandals==

From the late 2010's onwards, the company has experienced a steadily worsening fall from grace; whereas Blizzard was usually the universally beloved grand-daddy of the gaming world, albeit with one skubby exception in the form of Diablo 3, a number of PR-fuckups, shallow cashgrabs, [[Communism|grievances of the developers that actually make the games]] and the revelation of pervasive sexual harassment of staff have all but crushed their reputation. In a funny twist of fate, when it comes to their products, Blizzard is currently making a lot of the mistakes Geedubs made before [[Kevin Rountree]] took over. Here are some of the biggest failures and crimes - yes, really - in recent times;

'''November 3, 2018:''' During Blizcon, Diablo Immortals was announced as a mobile game. Gamers were livid, with one asking if it was an out of season April fools joke. The Gamer rage made an notable impact on stock price, taking months to recover afterwards.

'''Feburary 12, 2019:''' Blizzard fired 800 employees after reporting record earning.

'''October 6, 2019:''' During a tournament, Chinese [[Hearthstone]] pro-player Blitzchung appeared wearing a gas mask and goggles in a live stream and showed support to the Hong Kong Protests. Near the end of the live stream he said “Liberate Hong Kong. Revolution of our age”, a recognized slogan in the Hong Kong protest. After the interview Blizzard disqualified Blitzchung and stripped him of his prize money, and banned him for a year. Backlash was immediate, users deleted Blizzard accounts and destroyed games while #BoycottBlizzard trended with thousands retweeting.

'''October 28, 2019:''' Blizzard announced a $660,000 prize pool for their annual arena/mythic dungeon world tournaments, after previously releasing a set of promotional in-game toys, promising 1/4 of the sales would go towards said prize pool. Most fans believed the money made from the sales would be added to the $500,000 minimum that Blizzard had promised. However, after competing players confronted Blizzard officials, it was revealed that Blizzard had instead chosen to rely entirely on the sales profit for the prize pool, making off with ~$2 million themselves from the other 3/4 of the sales and contributing nothing out of their own pockets. Nerd rage ensued.

'''January 28th, 2020:''' Blizzard released the remastered version of Warcraft 3. The game came out in a notoriously unfinished, buggy and featureless state and used advertisement that borders on being fraudulent (Australian and EU authorities actually filed a lawsuit against Blizzard for misleading advertisements), was missing features the original game had ''13 years ago'', [[RAGE|'''claimed ownership of any custom content created for the game in the ToS in a really, really stupid move that is also illegal under US and EU law''' - especially since Blizzard is a US company]] and even refused to offer refunds, which prompted another lawsuit by EU authorities against them. The game also completely replaced the original Warcraft 3 on the launcher, locking players out of the original unless they have the physical discs and instead prompting them to download the "improved" version.

'''August 4, 2020:''' Employees shared a spreadsheet of salaries and recent pay increases showing that few were given raises after crunch, and overtime. Many employees, despite working at one of the biggest video game companies were struggling to pay rent and using the company's free coffee as an appetite suppressant as they cut meals. Apparently that 5 year service sword does not also pay rent.

'''October 16th, 2020:''' Blizzard announced that they would put Starcraft 2 into maintenance mode, ceasing any content updates in the future. This has left a lot of players angry and sad, especially since Starcraft 2 is one of the very last remaining RTS with a decently sized playerbase and competitive scene.

'''July 22nd, 2021:''' California's Department of Fair Employment filed a lawsuit against Activision/Blizzard for sexual harassment of numerous employees - especially female employees, some of the incidents going back years. The final catalyst was the suicide of a female employee who was one of the victims of said harassment. According to the lawsuit, the culprits are from several levels in the company (former Senior Creative Director Alex Afrasiabi and former CTO Ben Kilgore are among them), the charges include unwanted groping and posting intimate pictures without their consent, and that other execs knew of the abuses but did nothing. The situation wasn't helped when several Blizzard employees lashed out at several high-profile WoW commentators and streamers such as Asmongold for criticizing them, trying to shift blame onto them despite those streamers having nothing to do with the company or the abuse. With morale at an all-time low and widespread stress, the development of new projects (or at least World of Warcraft) has been stopped until the situation is resolved. Sponsors have started to turn on Blizzard and executive-level employees, such as J. Allen Brack and Jesse Meschuk, have been leaving the company (unclear whether it's voluntary resignations or firings as per the standard sugar-coated dismissals for top level business execs).
* '''July 28, 2021:''' After delivering a open letter to the upper management, a portion of Blizzard staff staged a walkout protest that gained considerable news coverage. There has been increasing support for staff to unionize, with Blizzard's Board of Directors responding by consulting the same legal firm whose lawyers prevented Amazon's staff from unionizing.
* '''August 3rd, 2021''' J. Allen Brack is succeeded by "co-leaders" Jen Oneal and Mike Ybarra following his departure (with accusations being leveled that Brack left to deliberately avoid being confronted over knowing about the abuses but not stopping them).
* '''August 25th, 2021''' Department of Fair Employment & Housing accuses Activision Blizzard of interfering with the investigation by doing witness tampering - requiring employees to speak with the company ahead of contacting the DFEH, amending the complaint and destroying several HR archives.

==Franchises relevant to /tg/==

*'''''[[Warcraft|WarCraft]]:''''' A real-time strategy (RTS) series; initially [[Orc]]s vs [[Human]]s but then later games added more races. Then it became a [[MMORPG]] with [[World of Warcraft|all kinds of crazy shit]]. Particularly notable to /tg/ because it spilled over into multiple genres: There were [[World of Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game|two separate editions of a ''D&D'' campaign setting]], a physical [[Card_Game#Collectible_Card_Games|trading card game]] and has its own board games too.
*'''''[[StarCraft]]:''''' RTS IN SPHESSSSS! <s>[[Space Marines]]</s> [[Imperial Guard|Terrans]] vs [[Tyranids|Zerg]] vs [[Eldar|Protoss]]. Beyond being the national sport of Korea, the ''StarCraft'' franchise has its own board game and has its own unique version of ''[[Risk]]'' which alters the rules just enough so that it isn't merely a re-skinned version of ''Risk''.
*'''''[[Diablo]]:''''' [[Grimdark]] [[Dark Fantasy]] setting involving the wars between [[Angel]]s and [[Demon]]s, and also not actually made by Blizzard. It was made instead by an outfit named Condor, which got bought out by Davidson & Associates, which also bought out a little outfit named Chaos Studios. Then, Chaos Studios got renamed '''Blizzard''', and Condor was renamed '''Blizzard North''', which is why Diablo ended up being playable on battle.net. Meanwhile, another group of guys named Synergistic Software got bought out by Sierra On-Line, which was in turn acquired by CUC International, which gobbled up Davidson & Associates, which was how the job of making Diablo's expansion pack, Hellfire, got farmed out to Synergistic. However, Condor and Blizzard both had veto power over Synergistic's ideas, and Condor, which was already working on Diablo II, didn't want anything to be in Hellfire that was also going to be in D2, which is why the Barbarian and secret cow quest had to be cut and why Hellfire couldn't be played over Battle.net even though the code totally worked. There was a [[fail|short-lived]] attempt to port the Diablo franchise into both [[Advanced Dungeons & Dragons#AD&D 2nd Edition|2nd Edition]] and [[Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition|3rd Edition]] ''Dungeons and Dragons'', though the results were not particularly successful or well-remembered.
*'''''Hearthstone:''''' A digital collectible card game. Think ''[[Magic: The Gathering|MtG]]'' but all the depth and complexity got replaced with RNG bullshit. Also it only costs you one kidney to gather a good card collection rather than [[Forgeworld|both, one leg, one testicle, and the soul of your firstborn child]] , but Blizzard seems dedicated to catch back on that missed profit by adding more content that cannot be bought with in-game currency (gold) and going the way of the battlepass...wait, what do you mean they have two passes?

==Blizzard things that aren't (/tg/ related) rip-offs==
In 1992, they made ''Battle Chess'' for the Commodore 64 & MS-DOS, and also a ''[[Lord of the Rings]]'' [[RPG]] for the Amiga. The ''LotR'' game was supposed to be just the first book, with two sequels, but they never got around to finishing it. They made ''RPM Racing'' (allegedly the first American-made SNES game) and ''Rock n' Roll Racing'' for the Super Nintendo and the Sega Megadrive but that's [[/v/]] shit. They also made a side-scrolling Superman beat 'em up and a shitty Justice League fighting game for a dose of [[/co/]] crap too. There's also their game ''The Lost Vikings'', a platforming puzzle game where you control three [[vikings]], each of them with their own special abilities (Erik the Swift can run faster and jump higher than the other two and also bash through walls with his horned helmet, Baleog the Fierce can shoot an arrow and kill enemies with his sword and Olaf the Stout can block with shield which he can also use like a hang-glider.) Since the game has vikings in it, /tg/ might be interested in it due to their [[Warriors of Chaos|viking fetish]]. A sequel was also made, ''The Lost Vikings 2'', which added two more characters, a [[werewolf]] named Fang and Scorch the [[dragon]], but it's kind of a rarity. Fast forward to more recent times, trying to cash in on the growing MOBA-craze, Blizzard developed ''Heroes of the Storm'' by throwing all their decent franchises into a blender to make one mediocre new game, which is ironic considering highly customized user-made ''StarCraft'' and ''WarCraft III'' maps pretty much spawned the MOBA genre in the first place. Blizz's most recent success is the first-person shooter ''Overwatch''. Though hilariously similar to ''[[Team Fortress 2]]'' and [[Blood Ravens|drawing upon]] various sci-fi and fantasy sources, it presents a somewhat unique (albeit poorly fleshed-out) [[noblebright]] setting and characters that are mostly [[/d/|fapbait/schlickbait]].

==[[Skub|Legitimately unbiased comparison]]==
<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="100%">
Both of the companies' products have a bevy of similarities and differences that can be factually assessed without any real bias. Beginning here is a <s>comprehensive</s> tiny list of the comparisons between popular topics of much [[RAGE|debate]].

<div class="mw-collapsible-content">
===[[Orks]] vs. [[Orc#Warcraft|Orcs]]===

While it is true that the light green skin, angry porcine face with lots of tusks, and heavyset jawlines are traits shared across the two species of Orcoids, that's about where the similarities end. While [[Orks]] are brutal, fun-loving omnicidal maniacs who love the [[Dakka]] and only momentarily hesitate to shoot something if it's sufficiently green and orky, [[orcs]] in Blizzard's universe actually eventually filled the unique role of being good guys. For the most part, anyway, back when they were first through the portals they were extremely bloodthirsty but as time has gone on they've settled down nicely. This is actually a first, as no other universe is really known for having Orcs who can be described as friendly (''[[Strike Legion]]'' is a good example though as well as the elder scrolls). In fact the Orcs of Blizzard's universe are the glue of their faction, serving as the lynch-pin by which the other races come together as one Horde.

Similarly, <span style='color:green;font-size:115%'>Orkzes iz da biggest an' da strongest.</span>, with the lowly boy far more buff than your standard human and only getting taller and taller as they age. Orcs, while significantly physically imposing, are roughly the same height as average humans, and are dwarfed by their [[Minotaur|Tauren]] allies.

Though it should be noted, that at current state Orcs spawned a total of three [[BBEG]]s of the setting, including the first Lich King himself, while most other races, except dragons and (technically) draenei, have their count on one or zero. The Orks, on the other hand, ''are'' the BBEGs.

===Terran Marines vs Space Marines===

This should be somewhat obvious. Space Marines, as deigned by [[GW]], are one-man armies, raised from a young age to be killing machines and then augmented to become superhuman monstrosities. Terran Marines, by comparison, are pitiful. If we're being very generous, they're an analogue for the [[Stormtrooper|Tempestus corps.]], but with a worse track record. They are literally a case of the government or rebel faction finding every hick and criminal they can and shoving them in a brainwashing tank, slapping power armor on them, pumping them with drugs, handing them a gun, and telling them to [[Tarpit|keep shooting until it stops moving]]. And, considering everything in the ''StarCraft'' universe can pierce through tanks and [[/m/|giant mechs]], not to mention some power armor, those marines aren't likely to survive their first deployment. So, to put it simply, Terran Marines are really closer to Guardsmen or Penal Legionnaires, except with better guns and even more drugs. And like the Guard, they have really nice tanks and fantastic artillery.

===Zergs vs [[Tyranids]]===

Both are races of ravenous, rapidly evolving beasts under the control of a distant supreme intelligence, both use biotechnology instead of tools, most of their units are fast, deadly, fragile and numerous, and they even look almost the same. The last part is actually to GW's shame, since they all but copy-pasted the Zerg appearance into Tyranids in 3rd edition, mostly to capitalize on the ''StarCraft'' financial success (yes, they were that greedy and shameless even back then).

Secondly, while the Tyranids' hive mind is their collective consciousness, the Zerg have actual physical entities with emotions and personalities to rule them - from the lowly Overlords, to the Cerebrates, to the Overmind itself (or Overlords - Hive Queens - Broodmothers - The Queen of Blades after Kerrigan took over control), and with that they also get some actual character development and political struggles in their ranks - something 'Nids solely lack as their only real agenda revolves around planet-hopping towards that psychic light known as the [[Golden Throne]], all the while eating everything on the way. Even though most Cerebrates merged into the new Overmind and were killed by Kerrigan (and her puppets) during Brood War, the real reason that they never showed up again was that their hierarchy was similar enough to the 'Nids that the Cerebrates were killed off off-screen and cut from ''StarCraft II'' as a way of [http://comments.deviantart.com/1/359035454/2977652201 Blizzard playing nice with Games Workshop].

Zergs also do not eat worlds like Tyranids do - only conquer and colonize them, which automatically lowers their Eldritch Unstoppable Evil level by half.

There's also a variant of Zerg called the Primal Zerg, which have a strictly more reptilian/mammalian aesthetic and are notably individuals that operate in Packs. Despite being individuals, some with marked intelligence, they're all basically just focused on eating strong prey and surviving and have no ambitions or desires beyond that one dimension.

===Burning Legion vs [[Daemon#Warhammer_40,000|Daemons of Chaos]]===
Both are evil demons, who came from the [[Eye of Terror|dimension of magic]] and want to [[Exterminatus|destroy everything]]. The Burning Legion, however, is everything but chaotic, and is highly organized and structured, and even after their dark god Sargeras got himself killed, they managed to keep their shit together. Moreover, unlike Chaos Daemons, who are the manifestations of emotions and magic, creatures of the Legion are mostly normal sapient biological beings, transformed through overuse of fel magic, or artificial constructs, enlivened by said fel magic. Unlike [[Chaos Gods]], who want the eternal conflict just for the sake of it (which makes sense, given they are empowered by emotions, and conflicts stimulate more emotions), the Burning Legion have clear goals, which are: 1) Gather all the magic, 2) Use it to destroy the Creation, 3) Hope a new, better one comes along. 4) [[Meme|???]], 5) [[Profit|PROFIT]]!

===Protoss vs [[Eldar]]===
You fucking kidding me? OK, both are psychic race with small numbers and long lifespan, both have tech, superior to everything in their setting (save Necrons and Xel'Naga respectively), and both are quite arrogant about their superiority. And that's it. Protoss are tough as adamantium bunkers, can warp in infantry almost instantly any place with an energy field, are fast as a slime, hit like every fucking one of them is armed with a tank cannon or a [[Power Fist]] and tend to move in big unkillable all-destroying deathballs of doom, while Eldar are fast as hell, can be killed by a mean look, and tend to zoom around in small groups at mind-blowing speed, surgically shooting/cutting down priority targets before retreating to the safety of cover. Culture-wise Protoss are closer to [[Tau]] than to Eldar, with a rigid caste system and hierarchy, and the highly collectivist ideology of the Khala, which is actually almost the same as the Tau's Greater Good. From this perspective Dark Templar are basically the Farsight enclave, who told the Khala and its Ethe... I meant Judicators to fuck off and left to build their new home without that brainwashing <s>pheromones</s> psi-internet bullshit. Oh, wait, the Tau Empire was introduced 3 years after the release of ''StarCraft''... OOPS!

Both the Protoss and Eldar also fell out of their golden ages pretty hard, though that's about where the similarities end. The Eldar caused their empire's fall entirely on their own, between all the murder-fucking and general debauchery that was getting out of hand, to such a point that not only did it reduce their species' population to a pitiful fraction of what it once was, but also damned each and every Eldar soul that exists (or has yet to exist) by creating one of the four Chaos Gods responsible for a shit ton of the Grimdark in 40k. Even though the Eldar are fighting against all odds, and making ''some'' progress with the birth of Ynnead, the chance of them actually ever returning to a semblance of their former glory is about as likely as the God-Emperor of Mankind leaping from the Golden Throne and declaring the Imperium of Man a Xenos-inclusive democracy. The Protoss, on the otherhand, are only partially responsible for their fall from power, as the internal strife between the Judicator Caste and Templar Caste didn't exactly help prepare them for when the Zerg invaded their homeworld of Aiur. The surviving Protoss as a whole had to evacuate to Shakuras, where their Dark Templar kin granted them sanctuary (in that kind of arrogant "look at how cool and caring we are ''despite'' you exiling our kind" mindset). Also unlike the Eldar, the Protoss are notably reclaiming their former glory. Having made buddies with the Dark Templar, Purifiers (sentient Protoss AI), Tal'Darim (to the Protoss the way Dark Eldar are to the Craftworlders), the collective Protoss race took back Aiur and is currently rebuilding a unified homeworld for all Protoss.

</div>
</div>

'''TL;DR''': A game company with an emphasis on quality (usually), responsible for both awesome and terrible things. If you really want to know what's what, go look it up yourself from a better source than 1d4chan.

Blizzard

2021-08-25T00:36:16Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:D84A:82E4:C2F4:4BF8: /* Scandals */

{{/vg/}}
{{topquote|Imitation is the sincerest of flattery.|Charles C. Colton, ''Lacon: Or, Many Things in a Few Words: Addressed to Those Who Think''}}

{{Infobox Deity
|Name = Blizzard
|Symbol = [[File:Fluff Accurate.jpg|300px]]
|Alignment = Stupid Chaotic Evil
|Divine Rank = AAA
|Pantheon = Activision
|Portfolio =
|Domains = Greed, Falls From Grace, Bad Ideas, Terrible Writing (Formerly: Polish, Execution, Unoriginality)
|Home Plane = California
|Worshippers = Gamers,
|Favoured Weapon = Exploit worker, Union Breaker, Retcons, Virtue Signal, Weinsteinian culture, IP theft
}}

__NOTOC__
'''Blizzard Entertainment, Inc.''' is an American-owned servant of the PRC and [[/v/|video game]] developer founded in 1991. Consumed by corporate merger shenanigans in 2008, they are now a subsidiary of parent company Activision Blizzard. They are well known in the gaming community for rising to prominence by shamelessly ripping off a long list of things, the most pertinent to [[/tg/]] being the similarity between its flagship franchises and ''[[Warhammer 40k]]''. Blizzard is akin to Apple Inc.: they never ''really'' did anything original, and instead took inspiration/borrowed/stole content from other sources, marketing it as though they're pretty much posterboys of the brand, and took the credit for being "pioneers of said genre". [[Games Workshop|Let it not be said they didn't steal their business/creative practices from the best]].

While not as skubtastic as [[Kaldor Draigo|the]] [[Matt Ward|other]] [[Grey Knights|things]] [[Ultramarines|present]], it still does cause tensions in /tg/ when brought up. Especially if it concerns one of their games' [[fluff]].

While Blizzard does [[Blood Ravens|"borrow"]] other people's ideas, there's no denying marketing spends a lot of time and effort studying those ideas, figuring why they are successful, and what parts of these ideas should be improved or removed to make them better. This leads to creating a few extremely well done and successful games, in turn earning a [[Profit|LOT of money]]. While other studios may create revolutionary content, Blizzard is more about ''evolution,'' with their games becoming golden standards of quality, and "easy to learn, hard to master" learning curves. They are also responsible for creating the game-dev meme ''"when it's done,"'' which means they could literally spend a decade on mismanagement one game, probably spending too much time doing drugs in the office, and another decade to force the dev team into crunch with a shit-ton of balance patches, while management pisses off to GDC but it's to be expected, given all other major game developers are the same, if not [[EA|much, much worse]].

[[Skub|There's contention]] between the legions of GW and the hordes of Blizzard in regards to copyrights, who invented which idea first, and whether any ripping-off in fact occurred. Facts seem to lean in the direction of yes, actually. Blizzard's co founder Allen Adham wanted to get the license to the Warhammer Universe however the [https://kotaku.com/how-warcraft-was-almost-a-warhammer-game-and-how-that-5929161 business side of the deal fell through], and the team wasn't keen on working for someone else. The exaggerated features and painted art style of the table top minis was adapted for low poly games. It boggles the mind that there still hasn't been legal trouble for this, and leads many to speculate that there's an off the books deal. Fa/tg/uys tend to accuse Blizzard of ripping off most of [[Games Workshop]]'s content, and they're right. They often write long angry posts about why Blizzard an evil company, what was stolen from their precious settings, and why Blizzard games sucks so much. But this is normal operating procedure for khornporation, Ip for the Ip throne after all. This sounds hilarious when you think about Games Workshop, who does steal '''all''' of its content from other settings. Blizzard only concentrates what's awesome about James Workshop and repackages it after doing minimal rework.

If you ever meet a raging fan, crying about plagiarism, <s>ignore the fucking troll</s> [[lulz|throw oil on the fire and get a-trolling]]. Alternatively, keep raging about [[The Ultimate Necron Cheese List|Necron Flyer Lists]]/[[rage|Terran Hellion Drop]] imbalance.

'''TL;DR''': Good [[crunch]], meh fluff (their memorable humor is arguably the best part of it), they are the [[Tzeentch]]/[[Slaanesh]] to GW's [[Nurgle]].

==Scandals==

From the late 2010's onwards, the company has experienced a steadily worsening fall from grace; whereas Blizzard was usually the universally beloved grand-daddy of the gaming world, albeit with one skubby exception in the form of Diablo 3, a number of PR-fuckups, shallow cashgrabs, [[Communism|grievances of the developers that actually make the games]] and the revelation of pervasive sexual harassment of staff have all but crushed their reputation. In a funny twist of fate, when it comes to their products, Blizzard is currently making a lot of the mistakes Geedubs made before [[Kevin Rountree]] took over. Here are some of the biggest failures and crimes - yes, really - in recent times;

'''November 3, 2018:''' During Blizcon, Diablo Immortals was announced as a mobile game. Gamers were livid, with one asking if it was an out of season April fools joke. The Gamer rage made an notable impact on stock price, taking months to recover afterwards.

'''Feburary 12, 2019:''' Blizzard fired 800 employees after reporting record earning.

'''October 6, 2019:''' During a tournament, Chinese [[Hearthstone]] pro-player Blitzchung appeared wearing a gas mask and goggles in a live stream and showed support to the Hong Kong Protests. Near the end of the live stream he said “Liberate Hong Kong. Revolution of our age”, a recognized slogan in the Hong Kong protest. After the interview Blizzard disqualified Blitzchung and stripped him of his prize money, and banned him for a year. Backlash was immediate, users deleted Blizzard accounts and destroyed games while #BoycottBlizzard trended with thousands retweeting.

'''October 28, 2019:''' Blizzard announced a $660,000 prize pool for their annual arena/mythic dungeon world tournaments, after previously releasing a set of promotional in-game toys, promising 1/4 of the sales would go towards said prize pool. Most fans believed the money made from the sales would be added to the $500,000 minimum that Blizzard had promised. However, after competing players confronted Blizzard officials, it was revealed that Blizzard had instead chosen to rely entirely on the sales profit for the prize pool, making off with ~$2 million themselves from the other 3/4 of the sales and contributing nothing out of their own pockets. Nerd rage ensued.

'''January 28th, 2020:''' Blizzard released the remastered version of Warcraft 3. The game came out in a notoriously unfinished, buggy and featureless state and used advertisement that borders on being fraudulent (Australian and EU authorities actually filed a lawsuit against Blizzard for misleading advertisements), was missing features the original game had ''13 years ago'', [[RAGE|'''claimed ownership of any custom content created for the game in the ToS in a really, really stupid move that is also illegal under US and EU law''' - especially since Blizzard is a US company]] and even refused to offer refunds, which prompted another lawsuit by EU authorities against them. The game also completely replaced the original Warcraft 3 on the launcher, locking players out of the original unless they have the physical discs and instead prompting them to download the "improved" version.

'''August 4, 2020:''' Employees shared a spreadsheet of salaries and recent pay increases showing that few were given raises after crunch, and overtime. Many employees, despite working at one of the biggest video game companies were struggling to pay rent and using the company's free coffee as an appetite suppressant as they cut meals. Apparently that 5 year service sword does not also pay rent.

'''October 16th, 2020:''' Blizzard announced that they would put Starcraft 2 into maintenance mode, ceasing any content updates in the future. This has left a lot of players angry and sad, especially since Starcraft 2 is one of the very last remaining RTS with a decently sized playerbase and competitive scene.

'''July 22nd, 2021:''' California's Department of Fair Employment filed a lawsuit against Activision/Blizzard for sexual harassment of numerous employees - especially female employees, some of the incidents going back years. The final catalyst was the suicide of a female employee who was one of the victims of said harassment. According to the lawsuit, the culprits are from several levels in the company (former Senior Creative Director Alex Afrasiabi and former CTO Ben Kilgore are among them), the charges include unwanted groping and posting intimate pictures without their consent, and that other execs knew of the abuses but did nothing. The situation wasn't helped when several Blizzard employees lashed out at several high-profile WoW commentators and streamers such as Asmongold for criticizing them, trying to shift blame onto them despite those streamers having nothing to do with the company or the abuse. With morale at an all-time low and widespread stress, the development of new projects (or at least World of Warcraft) has been stopped until the situation is resolved. Sponsors have started to turn on Blizzard and executive-level employees, such as J. Allen Brack and Jesse Meschuk, have been leaving the company (unclear whether it's voluntary resignations or firings as per the standard sugar-coated dismissals for top level business execs).
* '''July 28, 2021:''' After delivering a open letter to the upper management, a portion of Blizzard staff staged a walkout protest that gained considerable news coverage. There has been increasing support for staff to unionize, with Blizzard's Board of Directors responding by consulting the same legal firm whose lawyers prevented Amazon's staff from unionizing.
* '''August 3rd, 2021''' J. Allen Brack is succeeded by "co-leaders" Jen Oneal and Mike Ybarra following his departure (with accusations being leveled that Brack left to deliberately avoid being confronted over knowing about the abuses but not stopping them).
* '''August 25th, 2021''' Department of Fair Employment & Housing accuses Activision Blizzard of interfering with the investigation, including witness tampering requiring employees to speak with the company ahead of contacting the DFEH, amending the complaint and destroying HR archives.

==Franchises relevant to /tg/==

*'''''[[Warcraft|WarCraft]]:''''' A real-time strategy (RTS) series; initially [[Orc]]s vs [[Human]]s but then later games added more races. Then it became a [[MMORPG]] with [[World of Warcraft|all kinds of crazy shit]]. Particularly notable to /tg/ because it spilled over into multiple genres: There were [[World of Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game|two separate editions of a ''D&D'' campaign setting]], a physical [[Card_Game#Collectible_Card_Games|trading card game]] and has its own board games too.
*'''''[[StarCraft]]:''''' RTS IN SPHESSSSS! <s>[[Space Marines]]</s> [[Imperial Guard|Terrans]] vs [[Tyranids|Zerg]] vs [[Eldar|Protoss]]. Beyond being the national sport of Korea, the ''StarCraft'' franchise has its own board game and has its own unique version of ''[[Risk]]'' which alters the rules just enough so that it isn't merely a re-skinned version of ''Risk''.
*'''''[[Diablo]]:''''' [[Grimdark]] [[Dark Fantasy]] setting involving the wars between [[Angel]]s and [[Demon]]s, and also not actually made by Blizzard. It was made instead by an outfit named Condor, which got bought out by Davidson & Associates, which also bought out a little outfit named Chaos Studios. Then, Chaos Studios got renamed '''Blizzard''', and Condor was renamed '''Blizzard North''', which is why Diablo ended up being playable on battle.net. Meanwhile, another group of guys named Synergistic Software got bought out by Sierra On-Line, which was in turn acquired by CUC International, which gobbled up Davidson & Associates, which was how the job of making Diablo's expansion pack, Hellfire, got farmed out to Synergistic. However, Condor and Blizzard both had veto power over Synergistic's ideas, and Condor, which was already working on Diablo II, didn't want anything to be in Hellfire that was also going to be in D2, which is why the Barbarian and secret cow quest had to be cut and why Hellfire couldn't be played over Battle.net even though the code totally worked. There was a [[fail|short-lived]] attempt to port the Diablo franchise into both [[Advanced Dungeons & Dragons#AD&D 2nd Edition|2nd Edition]] and [[Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition|3rd Edition]] ''Dungeons and Dragons'', though the results were not particularly successful or well-remembered.
*'''''Hearthstone:''''' A digital collectible card game. Think ''[[Magic: The Gathering|MtG]]'' but all the depth and complexity got replaced with RNG bullshit. Also it only costs you one kidney to gather a good card collection rather than [[Forgeworld|both, one leg, one testicle, and the soul of your firstborn child]] , but Blizzard seems dedicated to catch back on that missed profit by adding more content that cannot be bought with in-game currency (gold) and going the way of the battlepass...wait, what do you mean they have two passes?

==Blizzard things that aren't (/tg/ related) rip-offs==
In 1992, they made ''Battle Chess'' for the Commodore 64 & MS-DOS, and also a ''[[Lord of the Rings]]'' [[RPG]] for the Amiga. The ''LotR'' game was supposed to be just the first book, with two sequels, but they never got around to finishing it. They made ''RPM Racing'' (allegedly the first American-made SNES game) and ''Rock n' Roll Racing'' for the Super Nintendo and the Sega Megadrive but that's [[/v/]] shit. They also made a side-scrolling Superman beat 'em up and a shitty Justice League fighting game for a dose of [[/co/]] crap too. There's also their game ''The Lost Vikings'', a platforming puzzle game where you control three [[vikings]], each of them with their own special abilities (Erik the Swift can run faster and jump higher than the other two and also bash through walls with his horned helmet, Baleog the Fierce can shoot an arrow and kill enemies with his sword and Olaf the Stout can block with shield which he can also use like a hang-glider.) Since the game has vikings in it, /tg/ might be interested in it due to their [[Warriors of Chaos|viking fetish]]. A sequel was also made, ''The Lost Vikings 2'', which added two more characters, a [[werewolf]] named Fang and Scorch the [[dragon]], but it's kind of a rarity. Fast forward to more recent times, trying to cash in on the growing MOBA-craze, Blizzard developed ''Heroes of the Storm'' by throwing all their decent franchises into a blender to make one mediocre new game, which is ironic considering highly customized user-made ''StarCraft'' and ''WarCraft III'' maps pretty much spawned the MOBA genre in the first place. Blizz's most recent success is the first-person shooter ''Overwatch''. Though hilariously similar to ''[[Team Fortress 2]]'' and [[Blood Ravens|drawing upon]] various sci-fi and fantasy sources, it presents a somewhat unique (albeit poorly fleshed-out) [[noblebright]] setting and characters that are mostly [[/d/|fapbait/schlickbait]].

==[[Skub|Legitimately unbiased comparison]]==
<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="100%">
Both of the companies' products have a bevy of similarities and differences that can be factually assessed without any real bias. Beginning here is a <s>comprehensive</s> tiny list of the comparisons between popular topics of much [[RAGE|debate]].

<div class="mw-collapsible-content">
===[[Orks]] vs. [[Orc#Warcraft|Orcs]]===

While it is true that the light green skin, angry porcine face with lots of tusks, and heavyset jawlines are traits shared across the two species of Orcoids, that's about where the similarities end. While [[Orks]] are brutal, fun-loving omnicidal maniacs who love the [[Dakka]] and only momentarily hesitate to shoot something if it's sufficiently green and orky, [[orcs]] in Blizzard's universe actually eventually filled the unique role of being good guys. For the most part, anyway, back when they were first through the portals they were extremely bloodthirsty but as time has gone on they've settled down nicely. This is actually a first, as no other universe is really known for having Orcs who can be described as friendly (''[[Strike Legion]]'' is a good example though as well as the elder scrolls). In fact the Orcs of Blizzard's universe are the glue of their faction, serving as the lynch-pin by which the other races come together as one Horde.

Similarly, <span style='color:green;font-size:115%'>Orkzes iz da biggest an' da strongest.</span>, with the lowly boy far more buff than your standard human and only getting taller and taller as they age. Orcs, while significantly physically imposing, are roughly the same height as average humans, and are dwarfed by their [[Minotaur|Tauren]] allies.

Though it should be noted, that at current state Orcs spawned a total of three [[BBEG]]s of the setting, including the first Lich King himself, while most other races, except dragons and (technically) draenei, have their count on one or zero. The Orks, on the other hand, ''are'' the BBEGs.

===Terran Marines vs Space Marines===

This should be somewhat obvious. Space Marines, as deigned by [[GW]], are one-man armies, raised from a young age to be killing machines and then augmented to become superhuman monstrosities. Terran Marines, by comparison, are pitiful. If we're being very generous, they're an analogue for the [[Stormtrooper|Tempestus corps.]], but with a worse track record. They are literally a case of the government or rebel faction finding every hick and criminal they can and shoving them in a brainwashing tank, slapping power armor on them, pumping them with drugs, handing them a gun, and telling them to [[Tarpit|keep shooting until it stops moving]]. And, considering everything in the ''StarCraft'' universe can pierce through tanks and [[/m/|giant mechs]], not to mention some power armor, those marines aren't likely to survive their first deployment. So, to put it simply, Terran Marines are really closer to Guardsmen or Penal Legionnaires, except with better guns and even more drugs. And like the Guard, they have really nice tanks and fantastic artillery.

===Zergs vs [[Tyranids]]===

Both are races of ravenous, rapidly evolving beasts under the control of a distant supreme intelligence, both use biotechnology instead of tools, most of their units are fast, deadly, fragile and numerous, and they even look almost the same. The last part is actually to GW's shame, since they all but copy-pasted the Zerg appearance into Tyranids in 3rd edition, mostly to capitalize on the ''StarCraft'' financial success (yes, they were that greedy and shameless even back then).

Secondly, while the Tyranids' hive mind is their collective consciousness, the Zerg have actual physical entities with emotions and personalities to rule them - from the lowly Overlords, to the Cerebrates, to the Overmind itself (or Overlords - Hive Queens - Broodmothers - The Queen of Blades after Kerrigan took over control), and with that they also get some actual character development and political struggles in their ranks - something 'Nids solely lack as their only real agenda revolves around planet-hopping towards that psychic light known as the [[Golden Throne]], all the while eating everything on the way. Even though most Cerebrates merged into the new Overmind and were killed by Kerrigan (and her puppets) during Brood War, the real reason that they never showed up again was that their hierarchy was similar enough to the 'Nids that the Cerebrates were killed off off-screen and cut from ''StarCraft II'' as a way of [http://comments.deviantart.com/1/359035454/2977652201 Blizzard playing nice with Games Workshop].

Zergs also do not eat worlds like Tyranids do - only conquer and colonize them, which automatically lowers their Eldritch Unstoppable Evil level by half.

There's also a variant of Zerg called the Primal Zerg, which have a strictly more reptilian/mammalian aesthetic and are notably individuals that operate in Packs. Despite being individuals, some with marked intelligence, they're all basically just focused on eating strong prey and surviving and have no ambitions or desires beyond that one dimension.

===Burning Legion vs [[Daemon#Warhammer_40,000|Daemons of Chaos]]===
Both are evil demons, who came from the [[Eye of Terror|dimension of magic]] and want to [[Exterminatus|destroy everything]]. The Burning Legion, however, is everything but chaotic, and is highly organized and structured, and even after their dark god Sargeras got himself killed, they managed to keep their shit together. Moreover, unlike Chaos Daemons, who are the manifestations of emotions and magic, creatures of the Legion are mostly normal sapient biological beings, transformed through overuse of fel magic, or artificial constructs, enlivened by said fel magic. Unlike [[Chaos Gods]], who want the eternal conflict just for the sake of it (which makes sense, given they are empowered by emotions, and conflicts stimulate more emotions), the Burning Legion have clear goals, which are: 1) Gather all the magic, 2) Use it to destroy the Creation, 3) Hope a new, better one comes along. 4) [[Meme|???]], 5) [[Profit|PROFIT]]!

===Protoss vs [[Eldar]]===
You fucking kidding me? OK, both are psychic race with small numbers and long lifespan, both have tech, superior to everything in their setting (save Necrons and Xel'Naga respectively), and both are quite arrogant about their superiority. And that's it. Protoss are tough as adamantium bunkers, can warp in infantry almost instantly any place with an energy field, are fast as a slime, hit like every fucking one of them is armed with a tank cannon or a [[Power Fist]] and tend to move in big unkillable all-destroying deathballs of doom, while Eldar are fast as hell, can be killed by a mean look, and tend to zoom around in small groups at mind-blowing speed, surgically shooting/cutting down priority targets before retreating to the safety of cover. Culture-wise Protoss are closer to [[Tau]] than to Eldar, with a rigid caste system and hierarchy, and the highly collectivist ideology of the Khala, which is actually almost the same as the Tau's Greater Good. From this perspective Dark Templar are basically the Farsight enclave, who told the Khala and its Ethe... I meant Judicators to fuck off and left to build their new home without that brainwashing <s>pheromones</s> psi-internet bullshit. Oh, wait, the Tau Empire was introduced 3 years after the release of ''StarCraft''... OOPS!

Both the Protoss and Eldar also fell out of their golden ages pretty hard, though that's about where the similarities end. The Eldar caused their empire's fall entirely on their own, between all the murder-fucking and general debauchery that was getting out of hand, to such a point that not only did it reduce their species' population to a pitiful fraction of what it once was, but also damned each and every Eldar soul that exists (or has yet to exist) by creating one of the four Chaos Gods responsible for a shit ton of the Grimdark in 40k. Even though the Eldar are fighting against all odds, and making ''some'' progress with the birth of Ynnead, the chance of them actually ever returning to a semblance of their former glory is about as likely as the God-Emperor of Mankind leaping from the Golden Throne and declaring the Imperium of Man a Xenos-inclusive democracy. The Protoss, on the otherhand, are only partially responsible for their fall from power, as the internal strife between the Judicator Caste and Templar Caste didn't exactly help prepare them for when the Zerg invaded their homeworld of Aiur. The surviving Protoss as a whole had to evacuate to Shakuras, where their Dark Templar kin granted them sanctuary (in that kind of arrogant "look at how cool and caring we are ''despite'' you exiling our kind" mindset). Also unlike the Eldar, the Protoss are notably reclaiming their former glory. Having made buddies with the Dark Templar, Purifiers (sentient Protoss AI), Tal'Darim (to the Protoss the way Dark Eldar are to the Craftworlders), the collective Protoss race took back Aiur and is currently rebuilding a unified homeworld for all Protoss.

</div>
</div>

'''TL;DR''': A game company with an emphasis on quality (usually), responsible for both awesome and terrible things. If you really want to know what's what, go look it up yourself from a better source than 1d4chan.

Blizzard

2021-08-25T00:32:21Z

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:D84A:82E4:C2F4:4BF8: /* Scandals */

{{/vg/}}
{{topquote|Imitation is the sincerest of flattery.|Charles C. Colton, ''Lacon: Or, Many Things in a Few Words: Addressed to Those Who Think''}}

{{Infobox Deity
|Name = Blizzard
|Symbol = [[File:Fluff Accurate.jpg|300px]]
|Alignment = Stupid Chaotic Evil
|Divine Rank = AAA
|Pantheon = Activision
|Portfolio =
|Domains = Greed, Falls From Grace, Bad Ideas, Terrible Writing (Formerly: Polish, Execution, Unoriginality)
|Home Plane = California
|Worshippers = Gamers,
|Favoured Weapon = Exploit worker, Union Breaker, Retcons, Virtue Signal, Weinsteinian culture, IP theft
}}

__NOTOC__
'''Blizzard Entertainment, Inc.''' is an American-owned servant of the PRC and [[/v/|video game]] developer founded in 1991. Consumed by corporate merger shenanigans in 2008, they are now a subsidiary of parent company Activision Blizzard. They are well known in the gaming community for rising to prominence by shamelessly ripping off a long list of things, the most pertinent to [[/tg/]] being the similarity between its flagship franchises and ''[[Warhammer 40k]]''. Blizzard is akin to Apple Inc.: they never ''really'' did anything original, and instead took inspiration/borrowed/stole content from other sources, marketing it as though they're pretty much posterboys of the brand, and took the credit for being "pioneers of said genre". [[Games Workshop|Let it not be said they didn't steal their business/creative practices from the best]].

While not as skubtastic as [[Kaldor Draigo|the]] [[Matt Ward|other]] [[Grey Knights|things]] [[Ultramarines|present]], it still does cause tensions in /tg/ when brought up. Especially if it concerns one of their games' [[fluff]].

While Blizzard does [[Blood Ravens|"borrow"]] other people's ideas, there's no denying marketing spends a lot of time and effort studying those ideas, figuring why they are successful, and what parts of these ideas should be improved or removed to make them better. This leads to creating a few extremely well done and successful games, in turn earning a [[Profit|LOT of money]]. While other studios may create revolutionary content, Blizzard is more about ''evolution,'' with their games becoming golden standards of quality, and "easy to learn, hard to master" learning curves. They are also responsible for creating the game-dev meme ''"when it's done,"'' which means they could literally spend a decade on mismanagement one game, probably spending too much time doing drugs in the office, and another decade to force the dev team into crunch with a shit-ton of balance patches, while management pisses off to GDC but it's to be expected, given all other major game developers are the same, if not [[EA|much, much worse]].

[[Skub|There's contention]] between the legions of GW and the hordes of Blizzard in regards to copyrights, who invented which idea first, and whether any ripping-off in fact occurred. Facts seem to lean in the direction of yes, actually. Blizzard's co founder Allen Adham wanted to get the license to the Warhammer Universe however the [https://kotaku.com/how-warcraft-was-almost-a-warhammer-game-and-how-that-5929161 business side of the deal fell through], and the team wasn't keen on working for someone else. The exaggerated features and painted art style of the table top minis was adapted for low poly games. It boggles the mind that there still hasn't been legal trouble for this, and leads many to speculate that there's an off the books deal. Fa/tg/uys tend to accuse Blizzard of ripping off most of [[Games Workshop]]'s content, and they're right. They often write long angry posts about why Blizzard an evil company, what was stolen from their precious settings, and why Blizzard games sucks so much. But this is normal operating procedure for khornporation, Ip for the Ip throne after all. This sounds hilarious when you think about Games Workshop, who does steal '''all''' of its content from other settings. Blizzard only concentrates what's awesome about James Workshop and repackages it after doing minimal rework.

If you ever meet a raging fan, crying about plagiarism, <s>ignore the fucking troll</s> [[lulz|throw oil on the fire and get a-trolling]]. Alternatively, keep raging about [[The Ultimate Necron Cheese List|Necron Flyer Lists]]/[[rage|Terran Hellion Drop]] imbalance.

'''TL;DR''': Good [[crunch]], meh fluff (their memorable humor is arguably the best part of it), they are the [[Tzeentch]]/[[Slaanesh]] to GW's [[Nurgle]].

==Scandals==

From the late 2010's onwards, the company has experienced a steadily worsening fall from grace; whereas Blizzard was usually the universally beloved grand-daddy of the gaming world, albeit with one skubby exception in the form of Diablo 3, a number of PR-fuckups, shallow cashgrabs, [[Communism|grievances of the developers that actually make the games]] and the revelation of pervasive sexual harassment of staff have all but crushed their reputation. In a funny twist of fate, when it comes to their products, Blizzard is currently making a lot of the mistakes Geedubs made before [[Kevin Rountree]] took over. Here are some of the biggest failures and crimes - yes, really - in recent times;

'''November 3, 2018:''' During Blizcon, Diablo Immortals was announced as a mobile game. Gamers were livid, with one asking if it was an out of season April fools joke. The Gamer rage made an notable impact on stock price, taking months to recover afterwards.

'''Feburary 12, 2019:''' Blizzard fired 800 employees after reporting record earning.

'''October 6, 2019:''' During a tournament, Chinese [[Hearthstone]] pro-player Blitzchung appeared wearing a gas mask and goggles in a live stream and showed support to the Hong Kong Protests. Near the end of the live stream he said “Liberate Hong Kong. Revolution of our age”, a recognized slogan in the Hong Kong protest. After the interview Blizzard disqualified Blitzchung and stripped him of his prize money, and banned him for a year. Backlash was immediate, users deleted Blizzard accounts and destroyed games while #BoycottBlizzard trended with thousands retweeting.

'''October 28, 2019:''' Blizzard announced a $660,000 prize pool for their annual arena/mythic dungeon world tournaments, after previously releasing a set of promotional in-game toys, promising 1/4 of the sales would go towards said prize pool. Most fans believed the money made from the sales would be added to the $500,000 minimum that Blizzard had promised. However, after competing players confronted Blizzard officials, it was revealed that Blizzard had instead chosen to rely entirely on the sales profit for the prize pool, making off with ~$2 million themselves from the other 3/4 of the sales and contributing nothing out of their own pockets. Nerd rage ensued.

'''January 28th, 2020:''' Blizzard released the remastered version of Warcraft 3. The game came out in a notoriously unfinished, buggy and featureless state and used advertisement that borders on being fraudulent (Australian and EU authorities actually filed a lawsuit against Blizzard for misleading advertisements), was missing features the original game had ''13 years ago'', [[RAGE|'''claimed ownership of any custom content created for the game in the ToS in a really, really stupid move that is also illegal under US and EU law''' - especially since Blizzard is a US company]] and even refused to offer refunds, which prompted another lawsuit by EU authorities against them. The game also completely replaced the original Warcraft 3 on the launcher, locking players out of the original unless they have the physical discs and instead prompting them to download the "improved" version.

'''August 4, 2020:''' Employees shared a spreadsheet of salaries and recent pay increases showing that few were given raises after crunch, and overtime. Many employees, despite working at one of the biggest video game companies were struggling to pay rent and using the company's free coffee as an appetite suppressant as they cut meals. Apparently that 5 year service sword does not also pay rent.

'''October 16th, 2020:''' Blizzard announced that they would put Starcraft 2 into maintenance mode, ceasing any content updates in the future. This has left a lot of players angry and sad, especially since Starcraft 2 is one of the very last remaining RTS with a decently sized playerbase and competitive scene.

'''July 22nd, 2021:''' California's Department of Fair Employment filed a lawsuit against Activision/Blizzard for sexual harassment of numerous employees - especially female employees, some of the incidents going back years. The final catalyst was the suicide of a female employee who was one of the victims of said harassment. According to the lawsuit, the culprits are from several levels in the company (former Senior Creative Director Alex Afrasiabi and former CTO Ben Kilgore are among them), the charges include unwanted groping and posting intimate pictures without their consent, and that other execs knew of the abuses but did nothing. The situation wasn't helped when several Blizzard employees lashed out at several high-profile WoW commentators and streamers such as Asmongold for criticizing them, trying to shift blame onto them despite those streamers having nothing to do with the company or the abuse. With morale at an all-time low and widespread stress, the development of new projects (or at least World of Warcraft) has been stopped until the situation is resolved. Sponsors have started to turn on Blizzard and executive-level employees, such as J. Allen Brack and Jesse Meschuk, have been leaving the company (unclear whether it's voluntary resignations or firings as per the standard sugar-coated dismissals for top level business execs).
* '''July 28, 2021:''' After delivering a open letter to the upper management, a portion of Blizzard staff staged a walkout protest that gained considerable news coverage. There has been increasing support for staff to unionize, with Blizzard's Board of Directors responding by consulting the same legal firm whose lawyers prevented Amazon's staff from unionizing.
* '''August 3rd, 2021''' J. Allen Brack is succeeded by "co-leaders" Jen Oneal and Mike Ybarra following his departure (with accusations being leveled that Brack left to deliberately avoid being confronted over knowing about the abuses but not stopping them).

==Franchises relevant to /tg/==

*'''''[[Warcraft|WarCraft]]:''''' A real-time strategy (RTS) series; initially [[Orc]]s vs [[Human]]s but then later games added more races. Then it became a [[MMORPG]] with [[World of Warcraft|all kinds of crazy shit]]. Particularly notable to /tg/ because it spilled over into multiple genres: There were [[World of Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game|two separate editions of a ''D&D'' campaign setting]], a physical [[Card_Game#Collectible_Card_Games|trading card game]] and has its own board games too.
*'''''[[StarCraft]]:''''' RTS IN SPHESSSSS! <s>[[Space Marines]]</s> [[Imperial Guard|Terrans]] vs [[Tyranids|Zerg]] vs [[Eldar|Protoss]]. Beyond being the national sport of Korea, the ''StarCraft'' franchise has its own board game and has its own unique version of ''[[Risk]]'' which alters the rules just enough so that it isn't merely a re-skinned version of ''Risk''.
*'''''[[Diablo]]:''''' [[Grimdark]] [[Dark Fantasy]] setting involving the wars between [[Angel]]s and [[Demon]]s, and also not actually made by Blizzard. It was made instead by an outfit named Condor, which got bought out by Davidson & Associates, which also bought out a little outfit named Chaos Studios. Then, Chaos Studios got renamed '''Blizzard''', and Condor was renamed '''Blizzard North''', which is why Diablo ended up being playable on battle.net. Meanwhile, another group of guys named Synergistic Software got bought out by Sierra On-Line, which was in turn acquired by CUC International, which gobbled up Davidson & Associates, which was how the job of making Diablo's expansion pack, Hellfire, got farmed out to Synergistic. However, Condor and Blizzard both had veto power over Synergistic's ideas, and Condor, which was already working on Diablo II, didn't want anything to be in Hellfire that was also going to be in D2, which is why the Barbarian and secret cow quest had to be cut and why Hellfire couldn't be played over Battle.net even though the code totally worked. There was a [[fail|short-lived]] attempt to port the Diablo franchise into both [[Advanced Dungeons & Dragons#AD&D 2nd Edition|2nd Edition]] and [[Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition|3rd Edition]] ''Dungeons and Dragons'', though the results were not particularly successful or well-remembered.
*'''''Hearthstone:''''' A digital collectible card game. Think ''[[Magic: The Gathering|MtG]]'' but all the depth and complexity got replaced with RNG bullshit. Also it only costs you one kidney to gather a good card collection rather than [[Forgeworld|both, one leg, one testicle, and the soul of your firstborn child]] , but Blizzard seems dedicated to catch back on that missed profit by adding more content that cannot be bought with in-game currency (gold) and going the way of the battlepass...wait, what do you mean they have two passes?

==Blizzard things that aren't (/tg/ related) rip-offs==
In 1992, they made ''Battle Chess'' for the Commodore 64 & MS-DOS, and also a ''[[Lord of the Rings]]'' [[RPG]] for the Amiga. The ''LotR'' game was supposed to be just the first book, with two sequels, but they never got around to finishing it. They made ''RPM Racing'' (allegedly the first American-made SNES game) and ''Rock n' Roll Racing'' for the Super Nintendo and the Sega Megadrive but that's [[/v/]] shit. They also made a side-scrolling Superman beat 'em up and a shitty Justice League fighting game for a dose of [[/co/]] crap too. There's also their game ''The Lost Vikings'', a platforming puzzle game where you control three [[vikings]], each of them with their own special abilities (Erik the Swift can run faster and jump higher than the other two and also bash through walls with his horned helmet, Baleog the Fierce can shoot an arrow and kill enemies with his sword and Olaf the Stout can block with shield which he can also use like a hang-glider.) Since the game has vikings in it, /tg/ might be interested in it due to their [[Warriors of Chaos|viking fetish]]. A sequel was also made, ''The Lost Vikings 2'', which added two more characters, a [[werewolf]] named Fang and Scorch the [[dragon]], but it's kind of a rarity. Fast forward to more recent times, trying to cash in on the growing MOBA-craze, Blizzard developed ''Heroes of the Storm'' by throwing all their decent franchises into a blender to make one mediocre new game, which is ironic considering highly customized user-made ''StarCraft'' and ''WarCraft III'' maps pretty much spawned the MOBA genre in the first place. Blizz's most recent success is the first-person shooter ''Overwatch''. Though hilariously similar to ''[[Team Fortress 2]]'' and [[Blood Ravens|drawing upon]] various sci-fi and fantasy sources, it presents a somewhat unique (albeit poorly fleshed-out) [[noblebright]] setting and characters that are mostly [[/d/|fapbait/schlickbait]].

==[[Skub|Legitimately unbiased comparison]]==
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Both of the companies' products have a bevy of similarities and differences that can be factually assessed without any real bias. Beginning here is a <s>comprehensive</s> tiny list of the comparisons between popular topics of much [[RAGE|debate]].

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===[[Orks]] vs. [[Orc#Warcraft|Orcs]]===

While it is true that the light green skin, angry porcine face with lots of tusks, and heavyset jawlines are traits shared across the two species of Orcoids, that's about where the similarities end. While [[Orks]] are brutal, fun-loving omnicidal maniacs who love the [[Dakka]] and only momentarily hesitate to shoot something if it's sufficiently green and orky, [[orcs]] in Blizzard's universe actually eventually filled the unique role of being good guys. For the most part, anyway, back when they were first through the portals they were extremely bloodthirsty but as time has gone on they've settled down nicely. This is actually a first, as no other universe is really known for having Orcs who can be described as friendly (''[[Strike Legion]]'' is a good example though as well as the elder scrolls). In fact the Orcs of Blizzard's universe are the glue of their faction, serving as the lynch-pin by which the other races come together as one Horde.

Similarly, <span style='color:green;font-size:115%'>Orkzes iz da biggest an' da strongest.</span>, with the lowly boy far more buff than your standard human and only getting taller and taller as they age. Orcs, while significantly physically imposing, are roughly the same height as average humans, and are dwarfed by their [[Minotaur|Tauren]] allies.

Though it should be noted, that at current state Orcs spawned a total of three [[BBEG]]s of the setting, including the first Lich King himself, while most other races, except dragons and (technically) draenei, have their count on one or zero. The Orks, on the other hand, ''are'' the BBEGs.

===Terran Marines vs Space Marines===

This should be somewhat obvious. Space Marines, as deigned by [[GW]], are one-man armies, raised from a young age to be killing machines and then augmented to become superhuman monstrosities. Terran Marines, by comparison, are pitiful. If we're being very generous, they're an analogue for the [[Stormtrooper|Tempestus corps.]], but with a worse track record. They are literally a case of the government or rebel faction finding every hick and criminal they can and shoving them in a brainwashing tank, slapping power armor on them, pumping them with drugs, handing them a gun, and telling them to [[Tarpit|keep shooting until it stops moving]]. And, considering everything in the ''StarCraft'' universe can pierce through tanks and [[/m/|giant mechs]], not to mention some power armor, those marines aren't likely to survive their first deployment. So, to put it simply, Terran Marines are really closer to Guardsmen or Penal Legionnaires, except with better guns and even more drugs. And like the Guard, they have really nice tanks and fantastic artillery.

===Zergs vs [[Tyranids]]===

Both are races of ravenous, rapidly evolving beasts under the control of a distant supreme intelligence, both use biotechnology instead of tools, most of their units are fast, deadly, fragile and numerous, and they even look almost the same. The last part is actually to GW's shame, since they all but copy-pasted the Zerg appearance into Tyranids in 3rd edition, mostly to capitalize on the ''StarCraft'' financial success (yes, they were that greedy and shameless even back then).

Secondly, while the Tyranids' hive mind is their collective consciousness, the Zerg have actual physical entities with emotions and personalities to rule them - from the lowly Overlords, to the Cerebrates, to the Overmind itself (or Overlords - Hive Queens - Broodmothers - The Queen of Blades after Kerrigan took over control), and with that they also get some actual character development and political struggles in their ranks - something 'Nids solely lack as their only real agenda revolves around planet-hopping towards that psychic light known as the [[Golden Throne]], all the while eating everything on the way. Even though most Cerebrates merged into the new Overmind and were killed by Kerrigan (and her puppets) during Brood War, the real reason that they never showed up again was that their hierarchy was similar enough to the 'Nids that the Cerebrates were killed off off-screen and cut from ''StarCraft II'' as a way of [http://comments.deviantart.com/1/359035454/2977652201 Blizzard playing nice with Games Workshop].

Zergs also do not eat worlds like Tyranids do - only conquer and colonize them, which automatically lowers their Eldritch Unstoppable Evil level by half.

There's also a variant of Zerg called the Primal Zerg, which have a strictly more reptilian/mammalian aesthetic and are notably individuals that operate in Packs. Despite being individuals, some with marked intelligence, they're all basically just focused on eating strong prey and surviving and have no ambitions or desires beyond that one dimension.

===Burning Legion vs [[Daemon#Warhammer_40,000|Daemons of Chaos]]===
Both are evil demons, who came from the [[Eye of Terror|dimension of magic]] and want to [[Exterminatus|destroy everything]]. The Burning Legion, however, is everything but chaotic, and is highly organized and structured, and even after their dark god Sargeras got himself killed, they managed to keep their shit together. Moreover, unlike Chaos Daemons, who are the manifestations of emotions and magic, creatures of the Legion are mostly normal sapient biological beings, transformed through overuse of fel magic, or artificial constructs, enlivened by said fel magic. Unlike [[Chaos Gods]], who want the eternal conflict just for the sake of it (which makes sense, given they are empowered by emotions, and conflicts stimulate more emotions), the Burning Legion have clear goals, which are: 1) Gather all the magic, 2) Use it to destroy the Creation, 3) Hope a new, better one comes along. 4) [[Meme|???]], 5) [[Profit|PROFIT]]!

===Protoss vs [[Eldar]]===
You fucking kidding me? OK, both are psychic race with small numbers and long lifespan, both have tech, superior to everything in their setting (save Necrons and Xel'Naga respectively), and both are quite arrogant about their superiority. And that's it. Protoss are tough as adamantium bunkers, can warp in infantry almost instantly any place with an energy field, are fast as a slime, hit like every fucking one of them is armed with a tank cannon or a [[Power Fist]] and tend to move in big unkillable all-destroying deathballs of doom, while Eldar are fast as hell, can be killed by a mean look, and tend to zoom around in small groups at mind-blowing speed, surgically shooting/cutting down priority targets before retreating to the safety of cover. Culture-wise Protoss are closer to [[Tau]] than to Eldar, with a rigid caste system and hierarchy, and the highly collectivist ideology of the Khala, which is actually almost the same as the Tau's Greater Good. From this perspective Dark Templar are basically the Farsight enclave, who told the Khala and its Ethe... I meant Judicators to fuck off and left to build their new home without that brainwashing <s>pheromones</s> psi-internet bullshit. Oh, wait, the Tau Empire was introduced 3 years after the release of ''StarCraft''... OOPS!

Both the Protoss and Eldar also fell out of their golden ages pretty hard, though that's about where the similarities end. The Eldar caused their empire's fall entirely on their own, between all the murder-fucking and general debauchery that was getting out of hand, to such a point that not only did it reduce their species' population to a pitiful fraction of what it once was, but also damned each and every Eldar soul that exists (or has yet to exist) by creating one of the four Chaos Gods responsible for a shit ton of the Grimdark in 40k. Even though the Eldar are fighting against all odds, and making ''some'' progress with the birth of Ynnead, the chance of them actually ever returning to a semblance of their former glory is about as likely as the God-Emperor of Mankind leaping from the Golden Throne and declaring the Imperium of Man a Xenos-inclusive democracy. The Protoss, on the otherhand, are only partially responsible for their fall from power, as the internal strife between the Judicator Caste and Templar Caste didn't exactly help prepare them for when the Zerg invaded their homeworld of Aiur. The surviving Protoss as a whole had to evacuate to Shakuras, where their Dark Templar kin granted them sanctuary (in that kind of arrogant "look at how cool and caring we are ''despite'' you exiling our kind" mindset). Also unlike the Eldar, the Protoss are notably reclaiming their former glory. Having made buddies with the Dark Templar, Purifiers (sentient Protoss AI), Tal'Darim (to the Protoss the way Dark Eldar are to the Craftworlders), the collective Protoss race took back Aiur and is currently rebuilding a unified homeworld for all Protoss.

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'''TL;DR''': A game company with an emphasis on quality (usually), responsible for both awesome and terrible things. If you really want to know what's what, go look it up yourself from a better source than 1d4chan.