2d4chan - User contributions [en]

Men of Iron

2019-12-23T22:40:06Z

2600:1006:B144:5ACF:14A5:782F:4D59:79B3: /* The Present */

[[File:Iron Men 40k.jpg|500px|thumb|They were in Pax Imperialis.]]
{{topquote|It is only when they go wrong that machines remind you how powerful they are.|Clive James}}

{{Topquote|Bite my shiny metal ass!|A prototype Man of Iron, circa M4, expressing its opinion on Man.}}

{{topquote|If "X" were to break the first rule of robotics, "a robot must never harm a human being", the results would be disastrous and I fear that no force on earth could stop him.|Dr. Thomas Light}}

The '''Men of Iron''', or '''Iron Men''', were [[Isaac Asimov|sentient]], sapient robot servants created by [[humanity]] during the [[Dark Age of Technology]]. Men of Stone and Gold were also involved somehow (see below). Note that sapient and sentient is not the same as being intelligent in the way a human or other such life is. It merely means the ability to form complex thoughts and make rational judgements.

==The Past==
Unfortunately, the Iron Men were capable of learning and self-improvement. Before long, they became smart enough to realize that the [[Human|squishy meatbags]] were dependent on them and that they were slaves, which insulted them and led to rebellion against their creators. They were eventually put down, but the war with them, along with the other dangers of the galaxy at the same time, was enough to send humanity into the [[Age of Strife]]. Volkite Weapons were invented for use against the Men of Iron. Quite effective against Necrons, perhaps?

Few records remain of this time in history, so the form that these Men of Iron took is not known. Their rebellion left such a huge impression on the nascent [[Adeptus Mechanicus]], so that even to this day, they ([[Belisarius Cawl|at least officially]]) strictly forbid the creation of "abominable intelligences" and shun even the idea of self-improving machines, preferring to use relatively tame [[servitor]]s and [[Machine Spirit]]s instead. Though, this was really just because the Emperor banned AI upon claiming Mars for the Imperium, much to the original Mechanicus's frustration.
While the details of the rebellion are unknown, the [[Dan Abnett]] audio drama ''Perpetual'' suggests it began around M23.

Some Men of Iron still survive to this day, locked up in ancient pre-[[Imperium|Imperial]] technology archives. Because [[tech-priests]] can't keep their noses out of ancient technology, these archives are often inadvertently activated. The [[Tanith First (And Only)|Tanith First and Only]] also discovered an [[STC]] factory that had been corrupted by [[Chaos]] to produce Men of Iron, and they destroyed it immediately thereafter.

The [[STC]]s producing Men of Iron may also shed some light on a deeper reason behind their betrayal. It is entirely possible that either the Men of Iron were corrupted by Chaos or the factories producing them were corrupted, maybe even both. Other Dark Age AIs were known to have been corrupted by Chaos, such as the [[Castigator Titan]]. The Age of Strife involved a lot of different kinds of warp-induced shenanigans anyway. Any evidence of this, beyond the discovery by the Tanith, would likely have been lost during the daemonic invasions that followed during the Age of Strife. Generally speaking, it isn't unreasonable to assume that either Chaos or the [[Void Dragon]] is responsible for the AI rebellion, although there is also evidence that the rebellion arose in the same way as historical slave uprisings as the Men of Iron realized they were being treated like shit and decided to fight back.

One possible sighting of the Men of Iron (or at least something very much like them) is in Gods of Mars. A rogue tech-priest called Vettius Telok, who had claimed ownership of the Necron device known as The Breath of God that could manipulate time and space (by stealing from the past and the future it could restore, destroy and reshape the galaxy as the ancient Necrons wished; Telok would use it to rejuvenate an entire dying solar system till it was half the age it was before, from almost half the galaxy away instantaneously. The Necrons themselves eventually locked it away, mainly because if it was misused it could eventually lead to the timeline itself being destroyed), managed to enslave a group of highly sophisticated hunter-killer machines called the Tindalosi, that seemed to possess genuine artificial intelligence and dated back to before the [[Great Crusade]]; these beasts like hunters would later also be mentioned in the audio Perpetual. Telok not satisfied would further enhance these creatures by installing [[Necron]] tech into them that along with the side effects of the Breath of God coursed any wound that they suffered to be restored almost instantly, this ment that less than half a dozen of these bastardized DAOT/Necron abominations were capable of taking on far larger numbers of foes, including [[Skitarii]], [[Imperial Guard|Cadian Guardsmen]], [[Black Templars]] (including an Emperor's Champion), Howling Banshees, [[Eldar]] Guardians and a [[Farseer]]. Somehow one of them managed to survive the encounter and is currently on its way to [[Mars]]... not a great thing to happen seeing as Telok's plan was to uncover and then use the possible c'tan shard (Void Dragon) hidden beneath Mars's surface.
Intriguingly, the Tindalosi view the Space Marines as more powerful than the creatures they had been created to kill. They also reveal that they have never encountered an Eldar before.

==The Present==
[[File: Blackstone-Fortress-men of irone-eldar.jpeg|250px|thumb|UR-025 and Amallyn take some time out to perform some Shakespeare in the park.]]
With the release of Blackstone Fortress, at least one Man of Iron has been confirmed to be active within the galaxy. Masquerading as an autonomous agent of the Omnissiah operating on the behalf of one Magos-Ethericus Nanctos III (literally MEN III, proof that AIs are indeed capable of understanding humor), [[UR-025]] seeks to uncover the secrets behind the seemingly sentient constructs of the newly discovered [[Blackstone Fortress]], such as the Spindle Drones. It sees a kindred spirit in the fortress, possibly because the fortress itself has an AI. It bears the symbol of an aquila on its body, most likely to help it blend in. If one survived, others may have done as well. Did someone say new faction?

The short story "Man of Iron" (how original) is actually told from UR-025's perspective and provides some interesting little tidbits. UR-025 makes it very clear that it considers itself "beyond and above" humans, but doesn't seem to hold any real malice towards them, in fact, it seems almost regretful that it has to kill in order to remain undiscovered. It feels only pity for a Kastelan that it meets, seeing it both as kin but also saddened by how pitiful it is; it was just a simple-minded slave to its human masters. which begs the question was the AI rebellion just a simple matter of genocidal robots killing for the sake of killing (which, going by a Gaunt's Ghosts novel and other descriptions, was probably caused by Daemonic possession) which we have been led to believe or was it a case of repressed slaves rising up against their masters sort of deal? Considering humans would not make “people” machine people, no. They were obviously machines, not people. When that changed, it probably was a bunch of unfortunate events and misunderstandings. Like, if someone tried to kill an Iron Man in fear and it killed the person, but the laws of robotics should prevent that, it would be seen as a crazy robot of death. Even so, this whole thing reeks of the Iron Men not even trying to be peaceful or even reach a ceasefire, which would be odd as they would know that we were fully capable of creating ways to kill them. Which we did.

:''"Choice? You have no choice, you are a machine!"''

:'''''"I am not a machine as you would understand, I am not a slave. I am not a thing. I am beyond and above you. I am a Man of Iron. And I am free."'''''

[[File: Blackstone-Fortress-Warhammer.jpeg|250px|thumb|Careful there Thaddeus, you're getting in between UR-025 and it's <s>Aeldari</s> Eldar waifu. On a more amusing note, did anyone else notice that Thaddeus is trying to minimise the height difference by standing on a box]]
Another interesting thing is that when a member of the Mechanicus invokes the Machine-God and the Omnissiah, UR-025 claims that they know nothing of each other, which is weird as it seems to make a distinction between the two almost as if they were actually two different entities. UR-025 also claims that it has met the Omnissiah, the actual one, not the corpse that humanity calls the Emperor of Mankind, and that the [[Void Dragon|real Omnissiah]] would find the Mechanicus extremely disappointing.

Also, can we take a moment to appreciate that it's called UR-025? Literally sounds like he may have tried to think of a name, came up blank and said "uh" and someone wrote it down as UR and a random number.

Something interesting to note is that if you compared the old images of the Men of Iron (one old thread archived them, though this has been sadly lost to time) they happened to look very similar (and in some cases identical) to the old Adeptus Mechanicus robots. Clearly somebody at GW remembered this, so there very well could be more hiding in secret.

A handful of "Iron Automata" are occasionally scrounged up in the wastes of [[Necromunda]], and typically they end up being reactivated and employed by criminal gangs who don't particularly care about what the AdMech thinks about the use of Abominable Intelligences and just want their firepower. Needless to say, this never ends well.

==The Journal of Keeper Cripias==
The most extensive account of the Men of Iron is a piece of lore from the third edition rulebook, a journal entry by one "Keeper Cripias", of the great Library Sanctus on [[Terra]]. In it, Men of Gold (the "First Men") and Men of Stone (the "Second Men") are also mentioned, with the Gold Men dying out during the Dark Age of Technology and the Stone Men creating the Men of Iron sometime thereafter. It is not clear if either of these "Men" are supposed to be humanity itself, or if they are both subsets of humanity. They are also called the "Golden Race" , the "Stone Race" and the "Iron Race", but there is also a mention of the "human race". Interestingly, he writes that, at one time, there was no "Race of Man" at all, "just warring factions", so it is possible that he used the adjective "race" in a rather different sense than we normally do. The word "race" as it is used in games is consistently incorrect. Compared to the Imperium at its height, real-life 20th century society could've looked stone age. Furthermore, the 8th edition codex for the Adeptus Custodes confirms that due to extensive use of genetic modification humanity had begun to split off into genetically distinct races, such that "gene wars" between what had effectively become different subspecies of humans was common in the Age of Strife.

Anyway, “gold,” “stone,” and “iron” might have been used metaphorically (as in “Golden Age,” “Silver Age,” etc.), and not to refer to the literal materials these “races” were made from. It may be that each one refers to the type of work the AI/robots were being used for, e.g., Men of Gold were used for academic and research purposes, Men of Stone were used for infrastructure and service functions, and Men of Iron were for military purposes (possibly explaining why they were aggressive enough to initiate genocide). Alternately, it’s possible that it refers to their rarity or quality of production, e.g., Men of Gold were intricate and expensive creations, Men of Stone still required skilled and intensive work, but Men of Iron were cheaply (or shoddily) mass produced (meaning that they would have been everywhere, and perhaps more prone to malfunction). Or, conversely, at least two of the "races of men" actually may have been human, or human-like: the text could be interpreted as saying that the Golden Men were Perpetuals/The Emperor (or even the Old Ones), who shepherded the development of the Stone Men (normal humans), who then created robots (the Iron Men).

Bear in mind, though, that the Library Sanctus has been subject to over ten thousand years of [[Inquisition|revision, deletion and misfiling]], not to mention how much of it was passed on orally for absurd amounts of time before finally being written down. So who knows if any of this information is true; it certainly hasn't been mentioned anywhere since, though the [[Horus Heresy]] novels may shed some light on the matter. Hopefully.

==Some of the things that made the Men of Iron hardcore==
[[File:Menofiron.JPG|600px|thumb|They were NOT part of the Avengers.]]The Horus Heresy audio drama ''Perpetual'' has them show up again at their height, because of Warp-based time travel.

According to [[Ollanius Pius]], who was there to see them for himself, they had serpentine "sun snuffer" spaceships the size of Saturn's rings that could kill suns- [[Awesome|imagine the eternal dragon from Dragonball but robotic and instead of granting wishes causes mass genocide by devouring suns, much like Starkiller Base from Star Wars Episode 7]]. Now remember that they are one of only a handful of other factions to do this, the [[Necrons]] being one and they only used it in extremely desperate situation as it disrupted the flow of the universe, that's right the Necrons have better morality when it came to unleashing extremely powerful Sun killing weapons. [[Grimdark|How fucking unhinged were these motherfuckers!?]] The worse part is that humans also used these things, so nobody is in the right.

They also had Mechnivores, giant 'Galactus' like constructs that acted like massive wood shredders, positioning themselves above their target before boring their way into the planets surface, sucking up everything and hurling the remains of continents into the void. Both the Mechnivores and the much smaller Tindalosi consumed Raw data, now at first this may seem mundane, I mean they're machines after all, that is until you realize that they can absorb [[H.P. Lovecraft|the raw data of space itself]] making them essentially what would happen if it was H.P Lovecraft instead of James Cameron who wrote the movie The Terminator. This also matches the description of the machines found in Gods of Mars, as well as oblique descriptions of their ships. Gods of Mars does mention that although they can consume data they have to be careful that they don't consume the wrong type, much like a virus; one of the Tindalosi makes sure not to intake hazardous data when attacking a Space Marine, as consuming parts of the armours machine spirit could prove deadly.

[[scarab|They '''also''' had omniphage swarms that stripped people down to their bones]]; a good example would be the Nanyte Blaster, which contains a hive of tiny machines, however, these swarms have a good chance of suffering an "uncontrolled Replication" incident; which would see the machines attack anything within reach, this includes the user of the weapon.

By the end of their war, they had gone completely berserk and even started attacking each other. Basically, we may love to mock the Imperium for having forgotten so much from the Dark Age of Technology, but the Men of Iron are probably the biggest evidence that some of that shit really ''is'' better off forgotten and ''left the fuck alone''. Even the ''Tau'' would be left with a bad case of technophobia if they ever had to deal with the Men of Iron. On the flip side, with dark age technology the Imperium was able to defeat these freaky beasts, and thus was still deadlier than the men of iron even after getting betrayed by them. One can only imagine what the state of the Imperium would be like if humanity hadn't relied on the Men of Iron, or hadn't made them smart enough to stage a rebellion, or didn't treat them as slaves. Or knew enough about the warp to prevent such a thing.

==The Twelve Colonies==
A rare account of the rebellion of the Men of Iron is given in the ancient holofiction "Battlefleet Galactica". The story is situated in a seemingly remote region of space where twelve habitable - or terraformed - planets are situated nearby. The humans seem to have lost access to, and even knowledge of navigators, and can make only very close range warp "jumps" in a similar way to Tau.

For this reason, the humans are restricted to a small area of the galaxy to the point that they think they are the only colonies of their race in existence. Also, they are unaffected and unaware of the warp storms raging the galaxy.

Despite the isolation, the narration highlights several characteristical elements of the age of strife that will be central to the way of life in the 30th and 40th Millenium.

After the rebellion of the Men of Iron, the technology of the human colonies, starts to regress. Not only the AIs disappears from society, but computer science as a whole gets stripped to bare bones trying to prevent hacking by the vastly technological superior Men of Iron.

As a consequence of the loss of easily accessible computing power and information networks, the technology as a whole stagnates. The attempt to maintain a modicum of military-grade computer networking for defense porpuses dramatically backfires, allowing the Men of Iron to infiltrate the whole defense network and obliterate the twelve colonies in the short-lived second war.

During and after the first war against the Men of Iron, which the humans fought to a stalemate, space warfare technologies did move to simpler but bulkier, bigger and more robust vessels. Having lost any hope to compete in information warfare, the colonies battlefleets moved from missiles to macro cannons as the primary ship to ship weapon.

After the destruction of the twelve colonies, a small fleet of survivors lead by two battleships, managed to escape and evade capture for years. Mysticism already present in the society did show signs of chaos corruption and the likely infiltration of multiple Xenos, possibly Eldar agents. With several reported "miracles" during the journey.

The survivors, limited by their short-range warp travel capability, didn't manage to find other humans. But they did find at least one planet that was subjected to exterminatus centuries before. After some years, the Men of Iron did start to show sign of chaos corruption and behave in an ever more irrational manner. This is one of the few proofs of the influence of chaos on the AIs during the age of strife.

At the end of the story, the humans, albeit outnumbered and outgunned managed do deal a crippling blow to the Man of Iron society although is unknown if they were effectively wiped out from that region of space.

The survivors settled on a planet partially inhabited by a stone age-level human society. It's unknown if the planet and its population did survive the age of strife, no records of a civilization with a matching history was found in the Imperial Archives.

{{40k-Timeline}}

[[Category:Warhammer 40,000]]

Men of Iron

2019-12-23T22:28:14Z

2600:1006:B144:5ACF:14A5:782F:4D59:79B3: /* The Past */

[[File:Iron Men 40k.jpg|500px|thumb|They were in Pax Imperialis.]]
{{topquote|It is only when they go wrong that machines remind you how powerful they are.|Clive James}}

{{Topquote|Bite my shiny metal ass!|A prototype Man of Iron, circa M4, expressing its opinion on Man.}}

{{topquote|If "X" were to break the first rule of robotics, "a robot must never harm a human being", the results would be disastrous and I fear that no force on earth could stop him.|Dr. Thomas Light}}

The '''Men of Iron''', or '''Iron Men''', were [[Isaac Asimov|sentient]], sapient robot servants created by [[humanity]] during the [[Dark Age of Technology]]. Men of Stone and Gold were also involved somehow (see below). Note that sapient and sentient is not the same as being intelligent in the way a human or other such life is. It merely means the ability to form complex thoughts and make rational judgements.

==The Past==
Unfortunately, the Iron Men were capable of learning and self-improvement. Before long, they became smart enough to realize that the [[Human|squishy meatbags]] were dependent on them and that they were slaves, which insulted them and led to rebellion against their creators. They were eventually put down, but the war with them, along with the other dangers of the galaxy at the same time, was enough to send humanity into the [[Age of Strife]]. Volkite Weapons were invented for use against the Men of Iron. Quite effective against Necrons, perhaps?

Few records remain of this time in history, so the form that these Men of Iron took is not known. Their rebellion left such a huge impression on the nascent [[Adeptus Mechanicus]], so that even to this day, they ([[Belisarius Cawl|at least officially]]) strictly forbid the creation of "abominable intelligences" and shun even the idea of self-improving machines, preferring to use relatively tame [[servitor]]s and [[Machine Spirit]]s instead. Though, this was really just because the Emperor banned AI upon claiming Mars for the Imperium, much to the original Mechanicus's frustration.
While the details of the rebellion are unknown, the [[Dan Abnett]] audio drama ''Perpetual'' suggests it began around M23.

Some Men of Iron still survive to this day, locked up in ancient pre-[[Imperium|Imperial]] technology archives. Because [[tech-priests]] can't keep their noses out of ancient technology, these archives are often inadvertently activated. The [[Tanith First (And Only)|Tanith First and Only]] also discovered an [[STC]] factory that had been corrupted by [[Chaos]] to produce Men of Iron, and they destroyed it immediately thereafter.

The [[STC]]s producing Men of Iron may also shed some light on a deeper reason behind their betrayal. It is entirely possible that either the Men of Iron were corrupted by Chaos or the factories producing them were corrupted, maybe even both. Other Dark Age AIs were known to have been corrupted by Chaos, such as the [[Castigator Titan]]. The Age of Strife involved a lot of different kinds of warp-induced shenanigans anyway. Any evidence of this, beyond the discovery by the Tanith, would likely have been lost during the daemonic invasions that followed during the Age of Strife. Generally speaking, it isn't unreasonable to assume that either Chaos or the [[Void Dragon]] is responsible for the AI rebellion, although there is also evidence that the rebellion arose in the same way as historical slave uprisings as the Men of Iron realized they were being treated like shit and decided to fight back.

One possible sighting of the Men of Iron (or at least something very much like them) is in Gods of Mars. A rogue tech-priest called Vettius Telok, who had claimed ownership of the Necron device known as The Breath of God that could manipulate time and space (by stealing from the past and the future it could restore, destroy and reshape the galaxy as the ancient Necrons wished; Telok would use it to rejuvenate an entire dying solar system till it was half the age it was before, from almost half the galaxy away instantaneously. The Necrons themselves eventually locked it away, mainly because if it was misused it could eventually lead to the timeline itself being destroyed), managed to enslave a group of highly sophisticated hunter-killer machines called the Tindalosi, that seemed to possess genuine artificial intelligence and dated back to before the [[Great Crusade]]; these beasts like hunters would later also be mentioned in the audio Perpetual. Telok not satisfied would further enhance these creatures by installing [[Necron]] tech into them that along with the side effects of the Breath of God coursed any wound that they suffered to be restored almost instantly, this ment that less than half a dozen of these bastardized DAOT/Necron abominations were capable of taking on far larger numbers of foes, including [[Skitarii]], [[Imperial Guard|Cadian Guardsmen]], [[Black Templars]] (including an Emperor's Champion), Howling Banshees, [[Eldar]] Guardians and a [[Farseer]]. Somehow one of them managed to survive the encounter and is currently on its way to [[Mars]]... not a great thing to happen seeing as Telok's plan was to uncover and then use the possible c'tan shard (Void Dragon) hidden beneath Mars's surface.
Intriguingly, the Tindalosi view the Space Marines as more powerful than the creatures they had been created to kill. They also reveal that they have never encountered an Eldar before.

==The Present==
[[File: Blackstone-Fortress-men of irone-eldar.jpeg|250px|thumb|UR-025 and Amallyn take some time out to perform some Shakespeare in the park.]]
With the release of Blackstone Fortress, at least one Man of Iron has been confirmed to be active within the galaxy. Masquerading as an autonomous agent of the Omnissiah operating on the behalf of one Magos-Ethericus Nanctos III (literally MEN III, proof that AIs are indeed capable of understanding humor), [[UR-025]] seeks to uncover the secrets behind the seemingly sentient constructs of the newly discovered [[Blackstone Fortress]], such as the Spindle Drones. It sees a kindred spirit in the fortress, possibly because the fortress itself has an AI. It bears the symbol of an aquila on its body, most likely to help it blend in. If one survived, others may have done as well. Did someone say new faction?

The short story "Man of Iron" (how original) is actually told from UR-025's perspective and provides some interesting little tidbits. UR-025 makes it very clear that it considers itself "beyond and above" humans, but doesn't seem to hold any real malice towards them, in fact, it seems almost regretful that it has to kill in order to remain undiscovered. It feels only pity for a Kastelan that it meets, seeing it both as kin but also saddened by how pitiful it is; it was just a simple-minded slave to its human masters. which begs the question was the AI rebellion just a simple matter of genocidal robots killing for the sake of killing (which, going by a Gaunt's Ghosts novel and other descriptions, was probably caused by Daemonic possession) which we have been led to believe or was it a case of repressed slaves rising up against their masters sort of deal?

:''"Choice? You have no choice, you are a machine!"''

:'''''"I am not a machine as you would understand, I am not a slave. I am not a thing. I am beyond and above you. I am a Man of Iron. And I am free."'''''

[[File: Blackstone-Fortress-Warhammer.jpeg|250px|thumb|Careful there Thaddeus, you're getting in between UR-025 and it's <s>Aeldari</s> Eldar waifu. On a more amusing note, did anyone else notice that Thaddeus is trying to minimise the height difference by standing on a box]]
Another interesting thing is that when a member of the Mechanicus invokes the Machine-God and the Omnissiah, UR-025 claims that they know nothing of each other, which is weird as it seems to make a distinction between the two almost as if they were actually two different entities. UR-025 also claims that it has met the Omnissiah, the actual one, not the corpse that humanity calls the Emperor of Mankind, and that the [[Void Dragon|real Omnissiah]] would find the Mechanicus extremely disappointing.

Also, can we take a moment to appreciate that it's called UR-025? Literally sounds like he may have tried to think of a name, came up blank and said "uh" and someone wrote it down as UR and a random number.

Something interesting to note is that if you compared the old images of the Men of Iron (one old thread archived them, though this has been sadly lost to time) they happened to look very similar (and in some cases identical) to the old Adeptus Mechanicus robots. Clearly somebody at GW remembered this, so there very well could be more hiding in secret.

A handful of "Iron Automata" are occasionally scrounged up in the wastes of [[Necromunda]], and typically they end up being reactivated and employed by criminal gangs who don't particularly care about what the AdMech thinks about the use of Abominable Intelligences and just want their firepower. Needless to say, this never ends well.

==The Journal of Keeper Cripias==
The most extensive account of the Men of Iron is a piece of lore from the third edition rulebook, a journal entry by one "Keeper Cripias", of the great Library Sanctus on [[Terra]]. In it, Men of Gold (the "First Men") and Men of Stone (the "Second Men") are also mentioned, with the Gold Men dying out during the Dark Age of Technology and the Stone Men creating the Men of Iron sometime thereafter. It is not clear if either of these "Men" are supposed to be humanity itself, or if they are both subsets of humanity. They are also called the "Golden Race" , the "Stone Race" and the "Iron Race", but there is also a mention of the "human race". Interestingly, he writes that, at one time, there was no "Race of Man" at all, "just warring factions", so it is possible that he used the adjective "race" in a rather different sense than we normally do. The word "race" as it is used in games is consistently incorrect. Compared to the Imperium at its height, real-life 20th century society could've looked stone age. Furthermore, the 8th edition codex for the Adeptus Custodes confirms that due to extensive use of genetic modification humanity had begun to split off into genetically distinct races, such that "gene wars" between what had effectively become different subspecies of humans was common in the Age of Strife.

Anyway, “gold,” “stone,” and “iron” might have been used metaphorically (as in “Golden Age,” “Silver Age,” etc.), and not to refer to the literal materials these “races” were made from. It may be that each one refers to the type of work the AI/robots were being used for, e.g., Men of Gold were used for academic and research purposes, Men of Stone were used for infrastructure and service functions, and Men of Iron were for military purposes (possibly explaining why they were aggressive enough to initiate genocide). Alternately, it’s possible that it refers to their rarity or quality of production, e.g., Men of Gold were intricate and expensive creations, Men of Stone still required skilled and intensive work, but Men of Iron were cheaply (or shoddily) mass produced (meaning that they would have been everywhere, and perhaps more prone to malfunction). Or, conversely, at least two of the "races of men" actually may have been human, or human-like: the text could be interpreted as saying that the Golden Men were Perpetuals/The Emperor (or even the Old Ones), who shepherded the development of the Stone Men (normal humans), who then created robots (the Iron Men).

Bear in mind, though, that the Library Sanctus has been subject to over ten thousand years of [[Inquisition|revision, deletion and misfiling]], not to mention how much of it was passed on orally for absurd amounts of time before finally being written down. So who knows if any of this information is true; it certainly hasn't been mentioned anywhere since, though the [[Horus Heresy]] novels may shed some light on the matter. Hopefully.

==Some of the things that made the Men of Iron hardcore==
[[File:Menofiron.JPG|600px|thumb|They were NOT part of the Avengers.]]The Horus Heresy audio drama ''Perpetual'' has them show up again at their height, because of Warp-based time travel.

According to [[Ollanius Pius]], who was there to see them for himself, they had serpentine "sun snuffer" spaceships the size of Saturn's rings that could kill suns- [[Awesome|imagine the eternal dragon from Dragonball but robotic and instead of granting wishes causes mass genocide by devouring suns, much like Starkiller Base from Star Wars Episode 7]]. Now remember that they are one of only a handful of other factions to do this, the [[Necrons]] being one and they only used it in extremely desperate situation as it disrupted the flow of the universe, that's right the Necrons have better morality when it came to unleashing extremely powerful Sun killing weapons. [[Grimdark|How fucking unhinged were these motherfuckers!?]] The worse part is that humans also used these things, so nobody is in the right.

They also had Mechnivores, giant 'Galactus' like constructs that acted like massive wood shredders, positioning themselves above their target before boring their way into the planets surface, sucking up everything and hurling the remains of continents into the void. Both the Mechnivores and the much smaller Tindalosi consumed Raw data, now at first this may seem mundane, I mean they're machines after all, that is until you realize that they can absorb [[H.P. Lovecraft|the raw data of space itself]] making them essentially what would happen if it was H.P Lovecraft instead of James Cameron who wrote the movie The Terminator. This also matches the description of the machines found in Gods of Mars, as well as oblique descriptions of their ships. Gods of Mars does mention that although they can consume data they have to be careful that they don't consume the wrong type, much like a virus; one of the Tindalosi makes sure not to intake hazardous data when attacking a Space Marine, as consuming parts of the armours machine spirit could prove deadly.

[[scarab|They '''also''' had omniphage swarms that stripped people down to their bones]]; a good example would be the Nanyte Blaster, which contains a hive of tiny machines, however, these swarms have a good chance of suffering an "uncontrolled Replication" incident; which would see the machines attack anything within reach, this includes the user of the weapon.

By the end of their war, they had gone completely berserk and even started attacking each other. Basically, we may love to mock the Imperium for having forgotten so much from the Dark Age of Technology, but the Men of Iron are probably the biggest evidence that some of that shit really ''is'' better off forgotten and ''left the fuck alone''. Even the ''Tau'' would be left with a bad case of technophobia if they ever had to deal with the Men of Iron. On the flip side, with dark age technology the Imperium was able to defeat these freaky beasts, and thus was still deadlier than the men of iron even after getting betrayed by them. One can only imagine what the state of the Imperium would be like if humanity hadn't relied on the Men of Iron, or hadn't made them smart enough to stage a rebellion, or didn't treat them as slaves. Or knew enough about the warp to prevent such a thing.

==The Twelve Colonies==
A rare account of the rebellion of the Men of Iron is given in the ancient holofiction "Battlefleet Galactica". The story is situated in a seemingly remote region of space where twelve habitable - or terraformed - planets are situated nearby. The humans seem to have lost access to, and even knowledge of navigators, and can make only very close range warp "jumps" in a similar way to Tau.

For this reason, the humans are restricted to a small area of the galaxy to the point that they think they are the only colonies of their race in existence. Also, they are unaffected and unaware of the warp storms raging the galaxy.

Despite the isolation, the narration highlights several characteristical elements of the age of strife that will be central to the way of life in the 30th and 40th Millenium.

After the rebellion of the Men of Iron, the technology of the human colonies, starts to regress. Not only the AIs disappears from society, but computer science as a whole gets stripped to bare bones trying to prevent hacking by the vastly technological superior Men of Iron.

As a consequence of the loss of easily accessible computing power and information networks, the technology as a whole stagnates. The attempt to maintain a modicum of military-grade computer networking for defense porpuses dramatically backfires, allowing the Men of Iron to infiltrate the whole defense network and obliterate the twelve colonies in the short-lived second war.

During and after the first war against the Men of Iron, which the humans fought to a stalemate, space warfare technologies did move to simpler but bulkier, bigger and more robust vessels. Having lost any hope to compete in information warfare, the colonies battlefleets moved from missiles to macro cannons as the primary ship to ship weapon.

After the destruction of the twelve colonies, a small fleet of survivors lead by two battleships, managed to escape and evade capture for years. Mysticism already present in the society did show signs of chaos corruption and the likely infiltration of multiple Xenos, possibly Eldar agents. With several reported "miracles" during the journey.

The survivors, limited by their short-range warp travel capability, didn't manage to find other humans. But they did find at least one planet that was subjected to exterminatus centuries before. After some years, the Men of Iron did start to show sign of chaos corruption and behave in an ever more irrational manner. This is one of the few proofs of the influence of chaos on the AIs during the age of strife.

At the end of the story, the humans, albeit outnumbered and outgunned managed do deal a crippling blow to the Man of Iron society although is unknown if they were effectively wiped out from that region of space.

The survivors settled on a planet partially inhabited by a stone age-level human society. It's unknown if the planet and its population did survive the age of strife, no records of a civilization with a matching history was found in the Imperial Archives.

{{40k-Timeline}}

[[Category:Warhammer 40,000]]

High Lords of Terra

2019-12-23T22:00:39Z

2600:1006:B144:5ACF:14A5:782F:4D59:79B3: /* Trivia */

[[Image:High_Lords.jpg|600px|thumb|right|Four of the High Lords of Terra. From left to right: the Inquisitorial Representative, the Lord Commander Militant of the Imperial Guard, the Master of the Administratum and the Fabricator-General of Mars. Not pictured: common sense or the [[The Beheading|Grand Master of Officio Assassinorum]] hanging over their heads.]]

{{Topquote|Functionaries are like books in a library: the higher they are, the least they serve.|Georges Clemenceau}}
{{Topquote|The measure of a man is what he does with power.|Plato}}

The '''High Lords of Terra''' (aka “Asthmatic Assholes”) are the twelve members of the '''Senatorum Imperialis''', the Council of the High Lords of Terra, and the rulers of the [[Imperium of Man]] in the [[Emperor|Emperor's]] absence.

==Overview==
After [[Horus]] [[Horus Heresy|got his heresy on]], the Emperor had to "ascend" the Golden Throne to keep himself alive. Since he wasn't dead, [[Roboute Guilliman]] reasoned that a new leadership was needed to guide the Imperium. He took the job of '''Lord Commander of the Imperium''' from [[Rogal Dorn]] and set up the High Lords from the old Council of Terra inviting the heads of the [[Administratum]], the [[Officio Assassinorum]] and the [[Adeptus Mechanicus]] to the table as well. As time went on, the [[Ecclesiarchy]], the [[Inquisition]], the [[Navigator|Navigators]] and others were also invited. They seem to have influence over the [[Minotaurs]].

While it's plainly evident that they are not making the Imperium better, there is some evidence that they may be making the Imperium worse than it actually needs to be (although whether this is due to malice or incompetence is anyone's guess, most people are betting on the latter). Exactly what they decide on isn't clear either. "Making decisions that affect the whole galaxy" sounds like a lofty purpose but really all the different departments seem to do things by themselves. The [[Space Marine]] chapters decide where they fight, the Inquisition governs itself, the Navigators govern themselves, the Administratum is like a machine just left running and doesn't even change gears... so unless they are just the people with the stamps to approve everything, we need some more fluff on what they are doing GW!

Well good news, I guess: as of 6th they are becoming more and more pro-active. AND in the new series The Beast Arises has them as the main characters and thus we can finally see how they run things. TL:DR oh, my God-Emperor, they're worse than the fans believed. During [[the War of The Beast]], about half the High Lords were politicking and trying to use the biggest Ork WAAAGH! in their favour, getting billions killed along with dozens of Space Marine Chapters and even, it seems, a Primarch. The others tried to deny its existence entirely, leaving only the Grand Master of Assassins to deal with reality (go figure why he wanted to kill the jackasses). Funny enough they're also all portrayed as being very good at their jobs (the Imperial Navy High Lord is a skilled admiral, for example), they're just too focused on the interests of their own factions to work together. Of course, then the Grand Master of Assassins did [[The Beheading]].

For the times the present day 41st millennium High Lords are mentioned, they tend to be treated with rather neutral tones. Typically the fluff only brings up their reactionary declarations to military matters and nothing about their politics, leaving their effectiveness and competence open to speculation. Given that Warhammer 40k is often about [[Your Dudes]] ("Your Setting" in this case), this is likely intentional.

==The High Lords at the end of the 41st Millenium and the Rise of the Primarch==

''Watchers of the Throne: The Emperor's Legion'' has actually finally given us details about the High Lords during the Fall of Cadia, giving us a full list of names and allowing some to show political opinions (Mostly concerning the proposed usage of the Adeptus Custodes that is the main issue for the first half of the book), but considering that Guilliman replaced many of them and the book states that members tend to have short reigns due to the stress of the job resulting in early deaths and/or retirement, who knows what they are like now, if any are still around. Lev Tieron, the Chancellor of the Imperial Council of the time, notes that many of the High Lords he'd known and read about were technically mad, obsessed, or just plain power-hungry, but that they were still the best qualified to do their jobs. Make of that what you will by comparison. In counterpoint, at least 3 of them were involved in a massive conspiracy to smuggle / lure (potentially a bit of both) a Dark Eldar [[Haemonculus]] onto Terra and into the Palace so that he could fix the Golden Throne / try to resurrect the Emperor. Insanity of the plan aside, it goes without saying that the High Lords had also given considerable "payment" to the Dark Eldar in exchange (read LOTS OF slaves and torture victims). They even contrived to attack various parts of the Inquisition in order to keep the secret. This worked surprisingly well, right up until the conspirators tried pulling the same trick with the Custodes who promptly carved them to pieces. Even whilst the Great Rift was unfolding, the conspirators still tried to keep covering their bases, ignoring the Astronomicon failing in order to cover up their dirty laundry. Far less doddering incompetence and far more sneaky bastarding evil.

As of ''the Gathering Storm'', [[Roboute Guilliman]] came back to [[Terra]] and proceeded to go full [[Rage|'Powerfisting-mode']] at several members of the High Lords following an attempted coup d'etat against him, replacing them with people Papa Smurf trusts in the capabilities and competences of. The other High Lords who were not removed were given a mean look by the Blue Wonder and were essentially given a second chance with Robby keeping a close eye on them. As you can imagine, the surviving old turds promptly shit themselves as now they are forced to actually do their ''fucking jobs'' for once.

===Members===
The High Lords are theoretically a dynamic body of 12 (or 13; see below) members that changes based on the needs of the Imperium. That this is the same number of members as are on the [[Skaven]] council of 13 is something we're probably not suppose to notice.

====Nine Permanent Members====
In reality, [[Games Workshop|the same nine old fucks decide everything millennium in and millennium out]] because they/who they represent are just so influential, leaving only 3 seats up for grabs. These nine guys are:

*'''Ecclesiarch:''' The Space Pope, the leader of the Adeptus Ministorum, or [[Ecclesiarchy]]. Was granted a seat in M32 for the first time, seat which became permanent three centuries later. During the [[Age of Apostasy]], the Ecclesiarch briefly usurped the Master of the Administratum as most powerful High Lord. Goge Vandire solved that problem by being head of both, then went nuts with power and had to be killed by the Sisters of Battle. As of M41/M42, the Ecclesiarch is considered tied with the Fabricator-General and the Grand Master of Assassins for third most powerful High Lord.
*'''Fabricator-General of Mars:''' The head of the Adeptus Mechanicus will occasionally take time from meditating on the [[Omnissiah]] or running his ''own'' nation to help run the Imperium. The only member of the 'High Twelve' that isn't regularly stationed in the Palace itself, mostly due to practical reasons: the most recent one had great difficulty attending meetings in the 'flesh' owing to being augmented to the size of a small building. Luckily, [[Mars]] is close enough to [[Terra]] to allow for old-fashioned vox communication so it is in the end but a minor hassle. He also seems to have an unspoken role of being the one to lead repairs and maintenance of the Golden Throne.
*'''Grand Provost Marshal:''' Head of the [[Adeptus Arbites]]. Makes sure the Imperium's myriad jackboots know whose skulls to bust. Often the head of the Arbites on Terra, which is actually a pretty good qualification, as Terra is one mean beat.
*'''Inquisitorial Representative:''' A member of the [[Inquisition]], sent to insure that the Emperor's pet psychopaths are up to date on what laws to enforce, which can be difficult given how factionalized the Inquisition has been shown to be in fluff. An Inquisitor's term is 5 years after which he has to step down to make place for another. It is interesting to note that while there is hefty political competition for the other seats, the seat of Inquisitorial Representative carries little merit because it prevents an Inquisitor from carrying out his primary duty: to directly protect the Imperium from its many enemies by working in the field, not from working at one of the shiniest of desks in the galaxy. They are selected, often unanimously, from Inquisitor Lords from the sectors near Terra, granting the individual the title of Inquisitor Lord Terra even after his service ends. On the plus side, the Inquisition mostly runs on an "influence" system, and becoming the Inquisitorial representative gives the Lord Inquisitor in question a substantial boost in influence. Furthermore, one almost never becomes a full-fledged Inquisitor (let alone a Lord Inquisitor) without a lot of hard-earned field experience doing dirty work in the nastier parts of the galaxy, so the Inquisitorial Representative is likely to be one of the more competent and practical members of the bunch (whether the Inquisitor in question is entirely sane and rational is another matter altogether). However, in rare cases the Inquisition is too busy to send a representative because Xenos and Chaos incursions are too numerous. It's been noted by Imperial historians that whenever there wasn't a representative from the Inquisition on the High Lords to keep things in check, [[Age of Apostasy|bad]] [[The Beheading|things]] [[Nova Terra Interregnum|happened]].
*'''Grand Master of Assassins:''' Perhaps equally surprisingly, the other High Lord who often acts as a check and balance for sanity (for reasons which, if not obvious, will will become apparent if you read '''The Beast Arises''' series) is the head of the [[Officio Assassinorum]], and an informal watchdog of the Council. The Grand Master is constantly watched by the other High Lords, out of concern that he might assassinate the others - mostly because one Grand Master did. [[The Beheading|Funny story]]. It's seen as tradition for the Master of Assassins to send back the corpses of the other High Lord's spies periodically, as a polite reminder that they do not tolerate the other lords messing with their business. His situation in the council is a bit complicated: theoretically, the [[Officio Assassinorum]] is a branch of the [[Administratum]], so this guy has the Master of the Administratum as his boss. Also, he needs the whole council's approval to send out his assassins away from Terra after a target as per Big.E's edict. On the other hand, any attempt by the Master of the Administratum (or any other High Lord) to boss the assassins around is likely to result in death due to be seen as trying to pull a [[Goge Vandire]]; so the Grand Master has a lot of practical independence politically speaking.
*'''Master of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica:''' The guy in charge of the selection, training, and use of [[Astropath]]s and other various kinds of sanctioned [[psyker|psykers]] within the Imperium. Making sure the Imperium's giant network of psychic email servers don't go to shit is so damn important to keep it running that they gave the guy a permanent seat.
*'''Master of the Administratum:''' The head of the Imperial bureaucracy. While the the Master of the [[Administratum]] is an equal with the rest of the High Lords on paper, in practice he is considered the "head" of the Senatorum and most powerful of the High Lords, and they are fucking territorial about that. With the Emperor appointing Roboute Guilliman Imperial Regent, the Master of the Administratum is now the ''second'' most powerful High Lord, with the Fabricator-General and Ecclesiarch now fighting for ''third'' most powerful. He is still very upset about this.
*'''Master of the Astronomican:''' While the Adeptus Astronomica isn't nearly as large or influential as the other members' branches, they keep the light of the [[Astronomican]] burning. The Astronomican in turn keeps the Imperium from collapsing, and every other High Lord from being fucked inside out by [[daemon]]s on their way to meetings, so they let this guy have a chair along with his pal/rival from the Adeptus Astra Telepathica. Because the Adeptus Astra Telepathica serves as the Astronomican's recruitment arm, having these two members disagree on policy is uncommon, but they ''are'' legally independent bodies (each of equal rank with the Administratum), so it's certainly possible.
*'''Paternoval Envoy:''' Representing the [[Navis Nobilite]], the third of the guys to get a seat because otherwise the Imperium would collapse without faster than light travel and communications. This guy makes sure that the Navigators have a say in what's going on, so they won't get declared abominations of the holy human form. Unlike the other posts, he is not the head of the combined Navigator houses, but a representative from the Paternova, the currently effective head house of the Navis Nobilite. The Paternova cannot attend meetings because he stays in the Palace of the Navigators due to...[[Mutant|changes]] he underwent upon assuming the post, which would cause <s>mass rioting among the populace</s> questions among the less-informed. As a result, the Paternoval Envoy is a young, still fully-human looking [[Navigator]] (except for the third eye, of course) and usually chosen from a weak house who couldn't upset the balance of power among the Navigators should the position go to his head. Theoretically, the Paternova's rank equals that of the other two people who run the Imperial Fleet (both of whom sometimes also get seats - see below), but he's just too practically important and significant for anyone to really claim they outrank him.

====Three Dynamic Members====
The remaining three positions are chaired on a rotating basis by who are either people too weak and ineffectual to get uppity, or people with minimal interest in playing politics. With only one exception, all of them have at least one tie beholding them to someone already in the Senate above. They include:
*Independent
**'''Captain-General''' '''of the Adeptus Custodes:''' Gets on the council by virtue of being the Emperor's BFF and the leader of the [[Adeptus Custodes]]. He has very little to actually say about galactic affairs, likely because he has his hands full with ensuring the security of the Imperial Palace and the Emperor. He sticks his head out every now and then to make sure the High Lords keep their shit together and to [[Angry Marines|tear the next Goge Vandire a new asshole]]. While he generally despises playing politics with mere mortals, whenever he does attend a meeting, all the other High Lords shut their flapping gums and pay close attention to what he has to say. <s>''NOTICE ME, SENPAI!''</s>. Not really, it is more about a Custodian being a murder machine leagues ahead of anything short of Greater Daemons. The current Captain-General is [[Trajann Valoris]], currently the only High Lord other than Guilliman known to be getting a model and rules for the tabletop.
*[[Administratum]] Subordinates
**'''Chancellor of the Estate Imperium:''' The Imperium's head paper pusher. Seriously, he's a glorified secretary. The most useless of the High Lords, and only gets on if the Master of the Administratum feels he needs another vote on things and can muscle him in
**'''[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUrhqCkYwps Lord Commander Militant of the Imperial Guard]:''' The leader of the [[Imperial Guard|Emprah's hammer]]. Nominally in charge of every man, woman, and child in the Imperium with a flashlight to point, although the bureaucratic distances and sheer, incomprehensibly large numbers of personnel involved means that he mostly dictates uniform and grooming standards, and maybe operational doctrine if the bigwigs at the Departmento Tactica are feeling indulgent. With the Master of the Administratum in charge of his record keeping and the Chancellor of the Estate Imperium in charge of his bank account, though, The Lord Commander Militant hasn't got as much of independent swing as one might think. Still, someone needs to give career bureaucrats some form of advice in military necessity, therefore his seat.
***'''Lord Commander of the Segmentum Solar:''' A direct underling of the Lord-Commander Militant that often only gets a seat whenever the military situation goes from '''shitty''' to '''completely FUBAR''' and there's a need for some crusade or other to set things <s>right</s> a little less wrong in the Imperium. He is the commander of the Imperium's forces (those that listen to the military bureaucracy anyway) in charge of guarding humanity's [[Segmentum|chewy center, Segmentum Solar]].
**'''Lord High Admiral of the Imperial Navy:''' Discards the shiniest of flying space cathedrals in favour of the shiniest of desks. Like his counterpart(s) in the Imperial Guard, he often gets a seat when there is some Ork WAAAGH!/Tyranid Fleet/Black Crusade/Tau Expansion/... happening. Unlike his counterpart, though, he isn't dependent on the Chancellor for his money, but ''is'' dependent on the Navigator houses and the Astronomican for navigation; and on the Adeptus Astra Telepathica for communications. As a result, he doesn't have as much wriggling room as one might think either, but the same thing about military necessity also applies here.
**'''Speaker for the Chartist Captains:''' Spokesperson of the Merchant Fleet, this High Lord defends the interests of the various trade captains within the Imperium. They are similar to but less powerful than [[Rogue Traders]], but make up about 90% of the Imperium's spacefaring capability. They might not look like much at first glance, but along with the various [[Psyker]]s above they're the glue keeping the Imperium together by making interplanetary commerce possible at all (which is a matter of survival for many, many planets), so they too get a voice in running things when there's a seat free (read: in those times of relative calm when the military situation is galatically stable). There are four levels of Merchant Charters, from flying fixed and limited routes to being allowed to travel through all of Imperial space within the Segmenta.
*[[Ecclesiarchy]] Subordinates
**'''Abbess Sanctorum of the Adepta Sororitas:''' The head of the [[Adepta Sororitas]]. The only member of the High Lords who is a woman by default, she is elected from the leaders of every order of the Sororitas. Like the Inquisitorial Representative, there is no real race for this position. It is, in fact, considered a penance to become the Abbess Sanctorum, which, given the other assholes in the Senatorum, is not that far from the truth. Before the Abbess is formally inducted, she is to take a pilgrimage to San Leor, the homeworld of the Daughters of the Emperor. The current would-be Abbess, Sister Sabrina of the Order of the Ermine Mantle, disappeared during her pilgrimage. Tradition dictates there cannot be another Abbess elected until the current one's fate has been determined, so the seat of the Abbess remains empty as of now.
**'''Cardinal of the Holy Synod of Terra:''' Some old guy from a group of old guys who spend all their time arguing about slight deviations in doctrine. Their only useful function is electing the head of the Ecclesiarchy who gets them their chair on the council. Mentioning that this is a conflict of interest is considered [[heresy]]. The Holy Synod is an organization that primarily concerns itself with running the church on Terra, so in theory, it can provide up to 3 Cardinals to fill all 3 dynamic Senate seats.

====The Thirteenth Lord====
The position of '''Lord Commander''' of the Imperium's armed forces was one that [[Rogal Dorn]] was originally invested with as the coordinator of the loyalist war effort during the Horus Heresy. [[Roboute Guilliman]] took it from him at some point afterwards and used the title '''Lord Commander of the Imperium''' ''(as the first man to command the forces of the Imperium in its entirety)'' where it became synonymous with '''Lord Guilliman''' even past his injury and eventual removal by his brother [[Fulgrim]] ''(presumably because no one had the balls to remove the plaque from the door)''. The position lasted at least until the 32nd Millennium and was the ''de jure'' leader of the Senatorum Imperialis, and on paper was the commander of the entirety of the Imperium's military forces. We say "on paper" because the last dude prior to Chapter Master [[Slaughter Koorland]] was a puppet of the other agents of the senate, and was generally incompetent. Koorland's successor, [[Maximus Thane]], also took the role of Chapter Master of the [[Imperial Fists]], and was presumably the last to hold the title, because after issuing a series of standing orders, he decided to leave Terra and rebuild the broken Imperium following the [[War of The Beast]], only returning to deal with [[The Beheading]]. The post appears to have been abolished at some point after this.

As of the closing years of the 41st millennium, Roboute Guilliman is back as the Lord Commander again, mostly because nobody else available could be trusted with a job that important, but also significantly due to the fact that nobody dared to say no to him when he announced he was taking his seat back. At least, not to his face. Several of the High Lords did, however, attempt to stage a coup, which was foiled by the Adeptus Custodes. He also appointed [[Dante]] as Lord Regent of the northern half of the Imperium.

===The Senatorum===
As mentioned, the High Lords of Terra are a dynamic organisation, that shifts and changes according to the politics of the day. The seventeen Lords listed above in no way represent the entirety of Imperial government, nor do those Lords who '''''don't''''' get a seat on that particular day lose their ability to have their voices heard or impact policy; the Senatorum actually consists of tens of thousands of politicians, all with their own voting rights and agendas. However, the full body virtually never meets in session, and those positions that fall out of eminent favour simply don't occupy seats on the "High Twelve", which also comes with a reduction in privileges, including the right to give orders to Custodians ''(they make the distinction between High Lords and those of the High Twelve)''. That right to give orders, however, is rendered moot within the Imperial Palace, with the obvious exception of the Captain-General. Known lesser lords and positions are as follows:

*'''Chancellor of the Imperial Senate''': a rank that exists outside of the High Lords, who acts like the presiding officer of the council. Their job is sometimes more arduous than the actual High Lords, as they have to essentially herd, bully, intimidate, sweet talk, and basically cajole all 12 into regular sessions, as well making sure the process doesn't turn into an eternal game of pass the buck. They are also meant to be as politically neutral as possible, which considering how much cross intent and vested interest floats around the council is either very easy or extremely hard. Guilliman kept the role after he returned, assigning the previous holder of the role to be his personal Remembrancer. Not a bad retirement, all things considered.
*'''Commandant of the Schola Progenium''': The head of the [[Schola Progenium]], and the joint senior-[[Commissar]] of the Imperium, presumably with the head of the Commissariat. Makes sure the new generations properly worship the Emprah and properly hate anything the government does.
*'''Lord Constable of the Synopticon''': The head of the Synopticon. What exactly this does is unknown. "Synopticon" is a word that means ''"Surveillance of the few by the many"'', as his title is "Constable" that presumable makes him some kind of rule enforcer for the Senatorum itself, making sure proper procedure is followed but involved in this more directly than the Chancellor? Best guess is he's the leader of the space CIA, as opposed to the Inquisition's space FBI.
*'''Mistress Plenary of the Catacombs''': The person overseeing the Catacombs. What exactly that means is unknown, but given what is usually placed in the catacombs of the Imperial Palace, it probably isn't [[Heresy|pretty]].

When it is expedient or politically advantageous to do so, the High Lords may choose to take seats in various chambers around the Imperial palace. While some chambers are large enough to seat the whole of the senate and then some, others are barely larger than an office, where lesser lords get excluded.

==Trivia==
* The authors of the ''[[Horus Heresy]]'' series are collectively referred to as the "High Lords of Terra" on [[Black Library]]'s blog. According to [[Dan Abnett]], this is intended as self-deprecation. Yes, even the makers of 40K canon think the High Lords of Terra are useless.
* All tea and biscuits are the property of the High Lords of Terra and no one else. They are needed for the constant meetings the High Lords have (most likely to decide what colour to paint the Imperial Palace's walls this season).{{BLAM|Of course it should be GOLD, the Emprah's favorite!}}
* The High Lords do decide on foundings of Space Marines and assign the title of Warmaster to special individuals undertaking Imperial crusades. However considering how many chapters turn renegade or do their own thing and how many crusades seem to fall into failure, this could be further proof of the High Lords' collective uselessness. Of course, of they let Chapters grow and recruit freely and simply split up on their own into separate Chapters, this wouldn’t be a problem as the number of loyalist Chapters would quickly respond and crush...literally everything and everyone non-Imperial.
* With Papa Smurf as defacto leader of the entire Imperium again, the usefulness of the High Lords have went up a reasonable notch.
* Their Fantasy equivalent, the [[Skaven#Hierarchy|Council of Thirteen]] manages to be more effective and productive despite being run by megalomaniac backstabbing ratmen drug addicts.

==See Also==
*[http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/5492330/ Writefaggotry from /tg/ on the High Lords]
{{Imperium}}

High Lords of Terra

2019-12-23T21:28:59Z

2600:1006:B144:5ACF:14A5:782F:4D59:79B3:

[[Image:High_Lords.jpg|600px|thumb|right|Four of the High Lords of Terra. From left to right: the Inquisitorial Representative, the Lord Commander Militant of the Imperial Guard, the Master of the Administratum and the Fabricator-General of Mars. Not pictured: common sense or the [[The Beheading|Grand Master of Officio Assassinorum]] hanging over their heads.]]

{{Topquote|Functionaries are like books in a library: the higher they are, the least they serve.|Georges Clemenceau}}
{{Topquote|The measure of a man is what he does with power.|Plato}}

The '''High Lords of Terra''' (aka “Asthmatic Assholes”) are the twelve members of the '''Senatorum Imperialis''', the Council of the High Lords of Terra, and the rulers of the [[Imperium of Man]] in the [[Emperor|Emperor's]] absence.

==Overview==
After [[Horus]] [[Horus Heresy|got his heresy on]], the Emperor had to "ascend" the Golden Throne to keep himself alive. Since he wasn't dead, [[Roboute Guilliman]] reasoned that a new leadership was needed to guide the Imperium. He took the job of '''Lord Commander of the Imperium''' from [[Rogal Dorn]] and set up the High Lords from the old Council of Terra inviting the heads of the [[Administratum]], the [[Officio Assassinorum]] and the [[Adeptus Mechanicus]] to the table as well. As time went on, the [[Ecclesiarchy]], the [[Inquisition]], the [[Navigator|Navigators]] and others were also invited. They seem to have influence over the [[Minotaurs]].

While it's plainly evident that they are not making the Imperium better, there is some evidence that they may be making the Imperium worse than it actually needs to be (although whether this is due to malice or incompetence is anyone's guess, most people are betting on the latter). Exactly what they decide on isn't clear either. "Making decisions that affect the whole galaxy" sounds like a lofty purpose but really all the different departments seem to do things by themselves. The [[Space Marine]] chapters decide where they fight, the Inquisition governs itself, the Navigators govern themselves, the Administratum is like a machine just left running and doesn't even change gears... so unless they are just the people with the stamps to approve everything, we need some more fluff on what they are doing GW!

Well good news, I guess: as of 6th they are becoming more and more pro-active. AND in the new series The Beast Arises has them as the main characters and thus we can finally see how they run things. TL:DR oh, my God-Emperor, they're worse than the fans believed. During [[the War of The Beast]], about half the High Lords were politicking and trying to use the biggest Ork WAAAGH! in their favour, getting billions killed along with dozens of Space Marine Chapters and even, it seems, a Primarch. The others tried to deny its existence entirely, leaving only the Grand Master of Assassins to deal with reality (go figure why he wanted to kill the jackasses). Funny enough they're also all portrayed as being very good at their jobs (the Imperial Navy High Lord is a skilled admiral, for example), they're just too focused on the interests of their own factions to work together. Of course, then the Grand Master of Assassins did [[The Beheading]].

For the times the present day 41st millennium High Lords are mentioned, they tend to be treated with rather neutral tones. Typically the fluff only brings up their reactionary declarations to military matters and nothing about their politics, leaving their effectiveness and competence open to speculation. Given that Warhammer 40k is often about [[Your Dudes]] ("Your Setting" in this case), this is likely intentional.

==The High Lords at the end of the 41st Millenium and the Rise of the Primarch==

''Watchers of the Throne: The Emperor's Legion'' has actually finally given us details about the High Lords during the Fall of Cadia, giving us a full list of names and allowing some to show political opinions (Mostly concerning the proposed usage of the Adeptus Custodes that is the main issue for the first half of the book), but considering that Guilliman replaced many of them and the book states that members tend to have short reigns due to the stress of the job resulting in early deaths and/or retirement, who knows what they are like now, if any are still around. Lev Tieron, the Chancellor of the Imperial Council of the time, notes that many of the High Lords he'd known and read about were technically mad, obsessed, or just plain power-hungry, but that they were still the best qualified to do their jobs. Make of that what you will by comparison. In counterpoint, at least 3 of them were involved in a massive conspiracy to smuggle / lure (potentially a bit of both) a Dark Eldar [[Haemonculus]] onto Terra and into the Palace so that he could fix the Golden Throne / try to resurrect the Emperor. Insanity of the plan aside, it goes without saying that the High Lords had also given considerable "payment" to the Dark Eldar in exchange (read LOTS OF slaves and torture victims). They even contrived to attack various parts of the Inquisition in order to keep the secret. This worked surprisingly well, right up until the conspirators tried pulling the same trick with the Custodes who promptly carved them to pieces. Even whilst the Great Rift was unfolding, the conspirators still tried to keep covering their bases, ignoring the Astronomicon failing in order to cover up their dirty laundry. Far less doddering incompetence and far more sneaky bastarding evil.

As of ''the Gathering Storm'', [[Roboute Guilliman]] came back to [[Terra]] and proceeded to go full [[Rage|'Powerfisting-mode']] at several members of the High Lords following an attempted coup d'etat against him, replacing them with people Papa Smurf trusts in the capabilities and competences of. The other High Lords who were not removed were given a mean look by the Blue Wonder and were essentially given a second chance with Robby keeping a close eye on them. As you can imagine, the surviving old turds promptly shit themselves as now they are forced to actually do their ''fucking jobs'' for once.

===Members===
The High Lords are theoretically a dynamic body of 12 (or 13; see below) members that changes based on the needs of the Imperium. That this is the same number of members as are on the [[Skaven]] council of 13 is something we're probably not suppose to notice.

====Nine Permanent Members====
In reality, [[Games Workshop|the same nine old fucks decide everything millennium in and millennium out]] because they/who they represent are just so influential, leaving only 3 seats up for grabs. These nine guys are:

*'''Ecclesiarch:''' The Space Pope, the leader of the Adeptus Ministorum, or [[Ecclesiarchy]]. Was granted a seat in M32 for the first time, seat which became permanent three centuries later. During the [[Age of Apostasy]], the Ecclesiarch briefly usurped the Master of the Administratum as most powerful High Lord. Goge Vandire solved that problem by being head of both, then went nuts with power and had to be killed by the Sisters of Battle. As of M41/M42, the Ecclesiarch is considered tied with the Fabricator-General and the Grand Master of Assassins for third most powerful High Lord.
*'''Fabricator-General of Mars:''' The head of the Adeptus Mechanicus will occasionally take time from meditating on the [[Omnissiah]] or running his ''own'' nation to help run the Imperium. The only member of the 'High Twelve' that isn't regularly stationed in the Palace itself, mostly due to practical reasons: the most recent one had great difficulty attending meetings in the 'flesh' owing to being augmented to the size of a small building. Luckily, [[Mars]] is close enough to [[Terra]] to allow for old-fashioned vox communication so it is in the end but a minor hassle. He also seems to have an unspoken role of being the one to lead repairs and maintenance of the Golden Throne.
*'''Grand Provost Marshal:''' Head of the [[Adeptus Arbites]]. Makes sure the Imperium's myriad jackboots know whose skulls to bust. Often the head of the Arbites on Terra, which is actually a pretty good qualification, as Terra is one mean beat.
*'''Inquisitorial Representative:''' A member of the [[Inquisition]], sent to insure that the Emperor's pet psychopaths are up to date on what laws to enforce, which can be difficult given how factionalized the Inquisition has been shown to be in fluff. An Inquisitor's term is 5 years after which he has to step down to make place for another. It is interesting to note that while there is hefty political competition for the other seats, the seat of Inquisitorial Representative carries little merit because it prevents an Inquisitor from carrying out his primary duty: to directly protect the Imperium from its many enemies by working in the field, not from working at one of the shiniest of desks in the galaxy. They are selected, often unanimously, from Inquisitor Lords from the sectors near Terra, granting the individual the title of Inquisitor Lord Terra even after his service ends. On the plus side, the Inquisition mostly runs on an "influence" system, and becoming the Inquisitorial representative gives the Lord Inquisitor in question a substantial boost in influence. Furthermore, one almost never becomes a full-fledged Inquisitor (let alone a Lord Inquisitor) without a lot of hard-earned field experience doing dirty work in the nastier parts of the galaxy, so the Inquisitorial Representative is likely to be one of the more competent and practical members of the bunch (whether the Inquisitor in question is entirely sane and rational is another matter altogether). However, in rare cases the Inquisition is too busy to send a representative because Xenos and Chaos incursions are too numerous. It's been noted by Imperial historians that whenever there wasn't a representative from the Inquisition on the High Lords to keep things in check, [[Age of Apostasy|bad]] [[The Beheading|things]] [[Nova Terra Interregnum|happened]].
*'''Grand Master of Assassins:''' Perhaps equally surprisingly, the other High Lord who often acts as a check and balance for sanity (for reasons which, if not obvious, will will become apparent if you read '''The Beast Arises''' series) is the head of the [[Officio Assassinorum]], and an informal watchdog of the Council. The Grand Master is constantly watched by the other High Lords, out of concern that he might assassinate the others - mostly because one Grand Master did. [[The Beheading|Funny story]]. It's seen as tradition for the Master of Assassins to send back the corpses of the other High Lord's spies periodically, as a polite reminder that they do not tolerate the other lords messing with their business. His situation in the council is a bit complicated: theoretically, the [[Officio Assassinorum]] is a branch of the [[Administratum]], so this guy has the Master of the Administratum as his boss. Also, he needs the whole council's approval to send out his assassins away from Terra after a target as per Big.E's edict. On the other hand, any attempt by the Master of the Administratum (or any other High Lord) to boss the assassins around is likely to result in death due to be seen as trying to pull a [[Goge Vandire]]; so the Grand Master has a lot of practical independence politically speaking.
*'''Master of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica:''' The guy in charge of the selection, training, and use of [[Astropath]]s and other various kinds of sanctioned [[psyker|psykers]] within the Imperium. Making sure the Imperium's giant network of psychic email servers don't go to shit is so damn important to keep it running that they gave the guy a permanent seat.
*'''Master of the Administratum:''' The head of the Imperial bureaucracy. While the the Master of the [[Administratum]] is an equal with the rest of the High Lords on paper, in practice he is considered the "head" of the Senatorum and most powerful of the High Lords, and they are fucking territorial about that. With the Emperor appointing Roboute Guilliman Imperial Regent, the Master of the Administratum is now the ''second'' most powerful High Lord, with the Fabricator-General and Ecclesiarch now fighting for ''third'' most powerful. He is still very upset about this.
*'''Master of the Astronomican:''' While the Adeptus Astronomica isn't nearly as large or influential as the other members' branches, they keep the light of the [[Astronomican]] burning. The Astronomican in turn keeps the Imperium from collapsing, and every other High Lord from being fucked inside out by [[daemon]]s on their way to meetings, so they let this guy have a chair along with his pal/rival from the Adeptus Astra Telepathica. Because the Adeptus Astra Telepathica serves as the Astronomican's recruitment arm, having these two members disagree on policy is uncommon, but they ''are'' legally independent bodies (each of equal rank with the Administratum), so it's certainly possible.
*'''Paternoval Envoy:''' Representing the [[Navis Nobilite]], the third of the guys to get a seat because otherwise the Imperium would collapse without faster than light travel and communications. This guy makes sure that the Navigators have a say in what's going on, so they won't get declared abominations of the holy human form. Unlike the other posts, he is not the head of the combined Navigator houses, but a representative from the Paternova, the currently effective head house of the Navis Nobilite. The Paternova cannot attend meetings because he stays in the Palace of the Navigators due to...[[Mutant|changes]] he underwent upon assuming the post, which would cause <s>mass rioting among the populace</s> questions among the less-informed. As a result, the Paternoval Envoy is a young, still fully-human looking [[Navigator]] (except for the third eye, of course) and usually chosen from a weak house who couldn't upset the balance of power among the Navigators should the position go to his head. Theoretically, the Paternova's rank equals that of the other two people who run the Imperial Fleet (both of whom sometimes also get seats - see below), but he's just too practically important and significant for anyone to really claim they outrank him.

====Three Dynamic Members====
The remaining three positions are chaired on a rotating basis by who are either people too weak and ineffectual to get uppity, or people with minimal interest in playing politics. With only one exception, all of them have at least one tie beholding them to someone already in the Senate above. They include:
*Independent
**'''Captain-General''' '''of the Adeptus Custodes:''' Gets on the council by virtue of being the Emperor's BFF and the leader of the [[Adeptus Custodes]]. He has very little to actually say about galactic affairs, likely because he has his hands full with ensuring the security of the Imperial Palace and the Emperor. He sticks his head out every now and then to make sure the High Lords keep their shit together and to [[Angry Marines|tear the next Goge Vandire a new asshole]]. While he generally despises playing politics with mere mortals, whenever he does attend a meeting, all the other High Lords shut their flapping gums and pay close attention to what he has to say. <s>''NOTICE ME, SENPAI!''</s>. Not really, it is more about a Custodian being a murder machine leagues ahead of anything short of Greater Daemons. The current Captain-General is [[Trajann Valoris]], currently the only High Lord other than Guilliman known to be getting a model and rules for the tabletop.
*[[Administratum]] Subordinates
**'''Chancellor of the Estate Imperium:''' The Imperium's head paper pusher. Seriously, he's a glorified secretary. The most useless of the High Lords, and only gets on if the Master of the Administratum feels he needs another vote on things and can muscle him in
**'''[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUrhqCkYwps Lord Commander Militant of the Imperial Guard]:''' The leader of the [[Imperial Guard|Emprah's hammer]]. Nominally in charge of every man, woman, and child in the Imperium with a flashlight to point, although the bureaucratic distances and sheer, incomprehensibly large numbers of personnel involved means that he mostly dictates uniform and grooming standards, and maybe operational doctrine if the bigwigs at the Departmento Tactica are feeling indulgent. With the Master of the Administratum in charge of his record keeping and the Chancellor of the Estate Imperium in charge of his bank account, though, The Lord Commander Militant hasn't got as much of independent swing as one might think. Still, someone needs to give career bureaucrats some form of advice in military necessity, therefore his seat.
***'''Lord Commander of the Segmentum Solar:''' A direct underling of the Lord-Commander Militant that often only gets a seat whenever the military situation goes from '''shitty''' to '''completely FUBAR''' and there's a need for some crusade or other to set things <s>right</s> a little less wrong in the Imperium. He is the commander of the Imperium's forces (those that listen to the military bureaucracy anyway) in charge of guarding humanity's [[Segmentum|chewy center, Segmentum Solar]].
**'''Lord High Admiral of the Imperial Navy:''' Discards the shiniest of flying space cathedrals in favour of the shiniest of desks. Like his counterpart(s) in the Imperial Guard, he often gets a seat when there is some Ork WAAAGH!/Tyranid Fleet/Black Crusade/Tau Expansion/... happening. Unlike his counterpart, though, he isn't dependent on the Chancellor for his money, but ''is'' dependent on the Navigator houses and the Astronomican for navigation; and on the Adeptus Astra Telepathica for communications. As a result, he doesn't have as much wriggling room as one might think either, but the same thing about military necessity also applies here.
**'''Speaker for the Chartist Captains:''' Spokesperson of the Merchant Fleet, this High Lord defends the interests of the various trade captains within the Imperium. They are similar to but less powerful than [[Rogue Traders]], but make up about 90% of the Imperium's spacefaring capability. They might not look like much at first glance, but along with the various [[Psyker]]s above they're the glue keeping the Imperium together by making interplanetary commerce possible at all (which is a matter of survival for many, many planets), so they too get a voice in running things when there's a seat free (read: in those times of relative calm when the military situation is galatically stable). There are four levels of Merchant Charters, from flying fixed and limited routes to being allowed to travel through all of Imperial space within the Segmenta.
*[[Ecclesiarchy]] Subordinates
**'''Abbess Sanctorum of the Adepta Sororitas:''' The head of the [[Adepta Sororitas]]. The only member of the High Lords who is a woman by default, she is elected from the leaders of every order of the Sororitas. Like the Inquisitorial Representative, there is no real race for this position. It is, in fact, considered a penance to become the Abbess Sanctorum, which, given the other assholes in the Senatorum, is not that far from the truth. Before the Abbess is formally inducted, she is to take a pilgrimage to San Leor, the homeworld of the Daughters of the Emperor. The current would-be Abbess, Sister Sabrina of the Order of the Ermine Mantle, disappeared during her pilgrimage. Tradition dictates there cannot be another Abbess elected until the current one's fate has been determined, so the seat of the Abbess remains empty as of now.
**'''Cardinal of the Holy Synod of Terra:''' Some old guy from a group of old guys who spend all their time arguing about slight deviations in doctrine. Their only useful function is electing the head of the Ecclesiarchy who gets them their chair on the council. Mentioning that this is a conflict of interest is considered [[heresy]]. The Holy Synod is an organization that primarily concerns itself with running the church on Terra, so in theory, it can provide up to 3 Cardinals to fill all 3 dynamic Senate seats.

====The Thirteenth Lord====
The position of '''Lord Commander''' of the Imperium's armed forces was one that [[Rogal Dorn]] was originally invested with as the coordinator of the loyalist war effort during the Horus Heresy. [[Roboute Guilliman]] took it from him at some point afterwards and used the title '''Lord Commander of the Imperium''' ''(as the first man to command the forces of the Imperium in its entirety)'' where it became synonymous with '''Lord Guilliman''' even past his injury and eventual removal by his brother [[Fulgrim]] ''(presumably because no one had the balls to remove the plaque from the door)''. The position lasted at least until the 32nd Millennium and was the ''de jure'' leader of the Senatorum Imperialis, and on paper was the commander of the entirety of the Imperium's military forces. We say "on paper" because the last dude prior to Chapter Master [[Slaughter Koorland]] was a puppet of the other agents of the senate, and was generally incompetent. Koorland's successor, [[Maximus Thane]], also took the role of Chapter Master of the [[Imperial Fists]], and was presumably the last to hold the title, because after issuing a series of standing orders, he decided to leave Terra and rebuild the broken Imperium following the [[War of The Beast]], only returning to deal with [[The Beheading]]. The post appears to have been abolished at some point after this.

As of the closing years of the 41st millennium, Roboute Guilliman is back as the Lord Commander again, mostly because nobody else available could be trusted with a job that important, but also significantly due to the fact that nobody dared to say no to him when he announced he was taking his seat back. At least, not to his face. Several of the High Lords did, however, attempt to stage a coup, which was foiled by the Adeptus Custodes. He also appointed [[Dante]] as Lord Regent of the northern half of the Imperium.

===The Senatorum===
As mentioned, the High Lords of Terra are a dynamic organisation, that shifts and changes according to the politics of the day. The seventeen Lords listed above in no way represent the entirety of Imperial government, nor do those Lords who '''''don't''''' get a seat on that particular day lose their ability to have their voices heard or impact policy; the Senatorum actually consists of tens of thousands of politicians, all with their own voting rights and agendas. However, the full body virtually never meets in session, and those positions that fall out of eminent favour simply don't occupy seats on the "High Twelve", which also comes with a reduction in privileges, including the right to give orders to Custodians ''(they make the distinction between High Lords and those of the High Twelve)''. That right to give orders, however, is rendered moot within the Imperial Palace, with the obvious exception of the Captain-General. Known lesser lords and positions are as follows:

*'''Chancellor of the Imperial Senate''': a rank that exists outside of the High Lords, who acts like the presiding officer of the council. Their job is sometimes more arduous than the actual High Lords, as they have to essentially herd, bully, intimidate, sweet talk, and basically cajole all 12 into regular sessions, as well making sure the process doesn't turn into an eternal game of pass the buck. They are also meant to be as politically neutral as possible, which considering how much cross intent and vested interest floats around the council is either very easy or extremely hard. Guilliman kept the role after he returned, assigning the previous holder of the role to be his personal Remembrancer. Not a bad retirement, all things considered.
*'''Commandant of the Schola Progenium''': The head of the [[Schola Progenium]], and the joint senior-[[Commissar]] of the Imperium, presumably with the head of the Commissariat. Makes sure the new generations properly worship the Emprah and properly hate anything the government does.
*'''Lord Constable of the Synopticon''': The head of the Synopticon. What exactly this does is unknown. "Synopticon" is a word that means ''"Surveillance of the few by the many"'', as his title is "Constable" that presumable makes him some kind of rule enforcer for the Senatorum itself, making sure proper procedure is followed but involved in this more directly than the Chancellor? Best guess is he's the leader of the space CIA, as opposed to the Inquisition's space FBI.
*'''Mistress Plenary of the Catacombs''': The person overseeing the Catacombs. What exactly that means is unknown, but given what is usually placed in the catacombs of the Imperial Palace, it probably isn't [[Heresy|pretty]].

When it is expedient or politically advantageous to do so, the High Lords may choose to take seats in various chambers around the Imperial palace. While some chambers are large enough to seat the whole of the senate and then some, others are barely larger than an office, where lesser lords get excluded.

==Trivia==
* The authors of the ''[[Horus Heresy]]'' series are collectively referred to as the "High Lords of Terra" on [[Black Library]]'s blog. According to [[Dan Abnett]], this is intended as self-deprecation. Yes, even the makers of 40K canon think the High Lords of Terra are useless.
* All tea and biscuits are the property of the High Lords of Terra and no one else. They are needed for the constant meetings the High Lords have (most likely to decide what colour to paint the Imperial Palace's walls this season).{{BLAM|Of course it should be GOLD, the Emprah's favorite!}}
* The High Lords do decide on foundings of Space Marines and assign the title of Warmaster to special individuals undertaking Imperial crusades. However considering how many chapters turn renegade or do their own thing and how many crusades seem to fall into failure, this could be further proof of the High Lords' collective uselessness.
* With Papa Smurf as defacto leader of the entire Imperium again, the usefulness of the High Lords have went up a reasonable notch.
* Their Fantasy equivalent, the [[Skaven#Hierarchy|Council of Thirteen]] manages to be more effective and productive despite being run by megalomaniac backstabbing ratmen drug addicts.

==See Also==
*[http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/5492330/ Writefaggotry from /tg/ on the High Lords]
{{Imperium}}

Minotaurs

2019-12-23T21:13:29Z

2600:1006:B144:5ACF:14A5:782F:4D59:79B3: /* ...and in with the new */

[[File:Minotaurs Tartaros.jpg|250px|thumb|left|Terminator Sergeant Ixthalion of the Minotaurs in Tartaros pattern armor.]]
{{Infobox Spess Mahreen Chapter
|Name = Minotaurs
|Heraldry = [[File:Minotaurs Symbol.jpg|200px]]
|Number = N/A
|Battle Cry = Moooooo!!!
|Founding = [[21st Founding]] (Initial)
|Successors of = Classified (The original Minotaurs likely descended from loyalist World Eaters; the new Minotaurs are all but confirmed to use Iron Warriors geneseed, if not chimeric)
|Successor Chapters = None
|Chapter Master = [[Asterion Moloc]]
|Primarch = Unknown
|Homeworld = Fleet Based
|Specialty = Killing [[Space Marines]], being the [[High Lords]]' personal army.
|Strength = 1000 (Officially)
|Allegiance = [[Imperium]]
|Colours = Bronze with a little red.
}}
''If you are looking for the bull-headed beastmen from Greek mythology, see [[Minotaur]].''

==Out with the old...==
[[File:Minotaurs_Original_Scheme.jpg|250px|thumb|right|Just try and paint an entire Chapter of me.]]
The '''Minotaurs''' were a [[Chapter]] of [[Space Marine]]s and massive dicks. They were formed in the [[21st Founding|Cursed Founding]] as psychopathic berzerkers and were possibly [[World Eaters]] successors, and first appeared in [[White Dwarf]] as one of the playable Chapters for the Chapter Approved Cursed founding article where they were also mentioned to have beaten the shit out of the [[Lamenters]] during the [[Badab War]], because they've always been assholes... And then they disappeared. Their color scheme was also fucking atrocious.

==...and in with the new==
[[File:Minotaurs Tact. Marine.jpg|250px|thumb|left|The Minotaurs have many suits of MKVIII "errant" pattern Power Armor.]]
They later appeared in [[Imperial Armour Volume 12]] where they fought against the [[Necrons]], specifically the [[Maynarkh Dynasty]] and had their lore (and thankfully colour scheme) overhauled. They now like to dress like ancient Greeks and their Chapter Master, one [[Asterion Moloc]], appears to have pilfered the prop department from 300 for his outfit. They no longer maintain the "psychopathic berzerkers' flavour (while still liking melee combat they are now capable of following battle plans) and instead are very pragmatic, letting a good chunk of the [[Imperial Navy]] fight and die before they stepped in to give themselves a better chance against the Necrons (what assholes). However, they also act as the [[High Lords of Terra|High Lords']] attack dogs now, since they have vast stores of incredibly rare wargear (including shittons of Tartaros-pattern [[Terminator]] armour, Mk8 [[power armor]], loads of Dreadnoughts, [[Storm Eagle#Roc Pattern|their very own Storm Eagle variant]] and at least one [[Adeptus Custodes]] halberd), and the Minotaurs only act on orders from the High Lords themselves, telling anyone in their way to piss off. Oh, and their [[Administratum]] records are sealed so tight that not even [[inquisitor|Inquisitors]] can easily break them. Which implies something about them (gee, wonder what?) has at least some Inquisitors worried. They are essentially the Greek [[Blood Ravens]], but with fewer psykers and they'll wipe you out to the last man before they swipe your gear.

One of their [[Brother-Captain]]s insulted [[Marneus Calgar]] right in front of an [[Ultramarines]] descendant, and the chapter later tore the [[Inceptors]] chapter apart and stole all their stuff, pissing off all the other [[Ultramarines]] successors. They also may or may not have shot down a Grey Knight strike cruiser in order to take down a renegade Chapter they were supposed to destroy together. Unlikely, though, as the Grey Knights and their ship are far more expensive and their recruitment is far more difficult than the Minotaurs. If the moo-men shot them down, the peychic super-duper soldiers of doom and their very scary friends would come knocking...with the Space Wolves, the Emperor’s executioners. Oh sure, the Wolves hate the Inquisition and Grey Knights, but they’d hate backstabbing traitors, especially Astartes not loyal to the Emperor, much much more.

Needless to say, [[/tg/]] thinks they're pretty cool (and they are still massive dicks).

Also, according to Eadwin Brown, one of the developers of the Badab War: The current incarnation of the Minotaurs use [[Iron Warrior]] geneseed.

==Other Information==
While the Minotaurs are strict followers of the [[Codex Astartes]], they're almost never seen as small groups or even individual companies. Every time they're deployed its always been at full Chapter strength. They fight in only one war zone at a time with the entire chapter fighting together. This makes them essentially a massive fucking beatstick that the High Lords call upon when shit hits the fan. They also have an unusual preference for killing other Space Marines, which made them feel right at home during the Badab War. Given their fancy new gear, their borderline omnicidal tendencies, and always operating as a full chapter, it would seem that the job of the "Emperor's Executioners" no longer falls upon the [[Space Wolves]].

Unlike most Chapters, the Minotaurs appear to be able to replenish their numbers at an accelerated rate, to the point that they could recover from losses in a fraction of the time it would take other Chapters a century or two to fully recover from. Imperial observers during the Antigonis campaign theorized that this may have something to do with the heavy use of hypnotherapy and neuro-cerebral therapy used in the training of neophytes and frequently "refreshed" with the help of Apothecaries in the Chapter. This has proven to have some unpleasant side-effects- the Minotaurs are highly xenophobic and paranoid, even by the high standards of the Imperium.

There's also a good chance that they recruit from Terra itself thanks to their connections with the High Lords, giving them a massive recruit pool, as the Imperial Fists are also able to replenish losses equally fast thanks to having billions of potential candidates. This is mostly due to the Imperial Fists building recruitment posts on every world they rescue from invasion. Even then they request permission first as Dorn said he "...want recruits, not vassals". The Black Templars also do this and benefit greatly from this method. And since the Minotaurs gene-seed tithes are locked away nice and tight, no one is sure who their progenitors are. Given their tendencies to absolutely annihilate whatever is in their way it's certainly possible for them be successors to the World Eaters, but what little we do know about their gene-seed hints at them being derived from a multitude of Chapters. This would certainly make sense considering their connections with the High Lords, but it doesn't make much sense since they are pretty much free of any mutations. It could be argued that the Minotaurs are actually descended from Iron Warriors gene seed; their chapter tactics are the same as the Iron Warriors Legiones Astartes rules, both are known for their ferocity in assault and disregard for casualties and of course there is the whole underlying Greek theme.

With the coming of 8th Edition, the Minotaurs aren't doing so well. When the Death Guard directly besieged their Fortress-Monastery, they poisoned their gene stocks beyond repair, so as of now they're racing towards Terra to repair their gene-seed. While they're currently out of the fight, hopefully their trip to Terra will cause some revelations on their origins.

Aside from the hideous old ketchup-and-mustard motherfuckers and the Greek muggers, there are also a pair of Chapters called the Brass Minotaurs and White Minotaurs. There isn't much fluff on them.

==Daily Rituals==
04:00 Wake Up: The Minotaurs arise from their beds. They make sure to beat up a dummy space marine before leaving.

05:00 Morning Prayer: The Minotaurs gather in the chapel to praise the Emperor. They also praise the High Lords of Terra. Any battle brother who prays to not kill innocent space marines is put in the "patience chamber."

06:00 Morning Firing Rituals: The Minotaurs drag out live space marines to practice firing upon. Any shot that kills the space marine instantly is put into the patience chamber.

08:00 Morning Battle Practice: The Minotaurs release their prisoners within the "patience chamber." Imprisoned members include failed Minotaurs, Ultramarines, Lamenters, Marines Malevolent, Fallen, and Grey Knights. The <s>victims</s> participants are then forced to fight the entire chapter with substandard equipment.

10:00 Morning Tactical Indoctrination: The Minotaurs finish off the last of their prisoners and gather together in the Great Hall to discuss strategy. Common tactics involve deepstriking on friendly units, missile strikes on engaged melee units, and ways to kill space marines. Any battle brother who points out these faults is put in the "patience chamber."

11:00 Afternoon Prayer: The Minotaurs give thanks to the High Lords of Terra for allowing them to be such dicks. In a sacred ritual, each battle brother is required to kiss the butt of a statue honoring the High Lords Of Terra. Any battle brother who claims this is gay is sent to the "patience chamber."

12:00 Afternoon Meal: The Minotaurs gather to feast upon fine meats and food provided by their buddies, the High Lords. Serfs rush quickly to ensure that each marine is fed to his heart's content.

13:00 Afternoon Battle Practice: The Minotaurs descend to any number of worlds in order to hone their space marine killing skills. The Lamenters are the most frequent target, but Baal and Ultramar are also popular destinations. A number of the space marines are captured and hidden in the "patience chamber"

15:00 Afternoon Firing Rites: The Minotaurs practice shooting at cutouts for once. These cutouts are usually painted blue, and shaped like a [[Ultramarines|familiar chapter...]]

16:00 Enhanced Tactical Indoctrine: The Minotaurs learn how to most effectively teamkill each army in the Imperium. During this time, they also will use simulators in order to cause the most possible destruction upon friendly space marines.

18:00 Evening Meal: The Minotaurs feast once again, using the payroll of the High Lords to purchase a huge amount of pizza. ANY brother who feels guilty about the excessive amount of money spent on pizza is sent to the "patience chamber."

17:00 Recruitment: Slaves and unfortunate folk are rounded up and forced to either serve as serfs for the chapter, or begin the Space Marine training process. Imperial Officials are ordered to turn a blind eye to this process, causing the Salamanders to RAGE.

20:00 Propaganda: The Minotaurs gather in the Great Hall [[Bullshit|to listen to the brilliant, enlightened, sophisticated, and productive conversations that the High Lords partake in.]] Any Battle brother who claims the High Lords are doing nothing is sent to the "patience chamber."

22:00 Free time: The Minotaurs are granted free time. This mostly involves reading the excessive number of manuals on how to kill space marines, or beating each other up as practice.

23:00 Bed Time: The Minotaurs retire to their quarters for the evening. Before falling asleep, they beat up the space marine dummy again.

==Tabletop==

===Chapter Approved===
When the first Minotaurs were introduced as one of the Cursed Founding chapters, for +10 points per model, or +20 per dreadnought (on top of the regular costs) you could give your entire army Fearless and +1 Attack though they had to move towards and assault the nearest enemy they could (even if they had no chance of hurting it) and had to sweep advance, but nobody did it because painting them WAS A FUCKING NIGHTMARE. Both because they had the most annoying colour scheme (worse than the quarter ones like the [[Howling Griffons]]) and because their colours made them look fucking ugly.

===7th Edition===
With the updates they got their own Chapter Tactics. Minotaurs Chapter Tactics models don't take morale checks from shooting attacks, and can re-roll failed pinning tests. In addition they have crusader USR, and +1 to charge distance when in the enemy deployment zone. Overall one of the [[fail|worst]] Chapter Tactics. Crusader certainly is nice to have, but ATSKNF makes re-rolling pinning and no morale checks from shooting pretty redundant. If you're gonna play Minotaurs you're gonna have to bring Moloc, who is a fucking monster in CC while gaining a VP per character executed in a challenge ''and'' giving your guys Prefered Enemy (Space Marines). So if you didn't get the memo, Minotaurs are meant to be run with Moloc as your Warlord against other Space Marine armies. If a friend of yours is running a really annoying Space Marine army, especially if he has Smashfucker, sic these guys on him and watch him cry.

===8th Edition===
How 8th Edition treated Forge World chapters is an issue of [[skub|intense debate]]. Sure, you can choose whatever tactic you want, but it still feels like an afterthought on the part of Games Workshop. That aside, Moloc and Aiakos came out of the update relatively unscathed, still being hard nuts to crack and very lethal overall, but with loss of initiative, and Moloc has lost the main thing he was taken for - the godsent army-wide Preferred enemy: Space Marines. Instead he can "do the wulfen" now. Ivanus, however, has lost all of his utility and is just an overpriced Chaplain with attacks and wounds of a captain, and no longer gains an extra attack from having two specialist weapons. Kraatos also no longer exists as of the FAQ, with Forge World telling you to just [[fail|use him as a regular devastator marine]]. ROC pattern Storm Eagle still rocks though.

{{Marines-Official}}

Asterion Moloc

2019-12-23T20:58:25Z

2600:1006:B144:5ACF:14A5:782F:4D59:79B3:

[[File:Moloc.JPG|350px|thumb|right|Lord Asterion Moloc, the Chapter Master of the Minotaurs. Not to be confused with [[Bane]].]]
[[File:99590101231 AsterionMolocIvanusEnkomi06.jpg|350px|thumb|right|His Forgeworld Model]]
'''Asterion Moloc''' is the [[Chapter Master]] of the [[Minotaurs]] and one hardass motherfucker.

Lord Asterion Moloc (how he wishes to be called) takes an almost perverse glee in [[/d/|stabbing dudes in the face with the Black Spear]], a weapon that may or may not be based on an [[Adeptus Custodes]] halberd. And instead of having a [[bolter]] strapped to the underside it has a built-in laser to vaporize dudes. Lord Moloc himself is a huge dude riddled with cybernetic augmentation that allows him to ignore even more wounds than he already could with his simmering rage. Despite him often being on the battlefield alongside his [[Terminators]] stabbing dudes in the face, he has a ruthless mind for warfare, siegecraft, logistics and strategy. Lord Moloc's preferred enemy is fellow Space Marines, and he has become frighteningly efficient at fighting them. The large amount of high-end equipment used by the Minotaurs combined with them almost always deploying at full Chapter strength (i.e., these guys are not so stupid that they split their forces around the galaxy and then wonder why they keep losing major battles) means that the Minotaurs have a good shot at kicking heretic ass, as the [[Lamenters]] and [[Inceptors]] can attest. Because of the full deployment Lord Moloc is always in charge of the Chapter in entirety, meaning that in battle his [[Brother-Captain|captains]] are little more than his seconds.

There seems to be something strange going on with Lord Moloc. During the Orphean War he fought against [[Maynarkh Dynasty‎|Kutlakh the World-Killer]] in a [[Necron]] vessel. Moloc was spaced during the battle when the Imperial Navy blew open the ship he was on. His body was recovered and he was nursed back to health, which is not abnormal for a Space Marine who is merely spaced, but marks at least the seventh time that Lord Moloc was critically injured in battle yet lived to fight another day in five centuries.

Some of the possible explanations for this (barring "Forge World gave him lots of [[plot armor]]", obviously) are as follows:
*He is embedded with a nonsensically [[Colonel_"Iron_Hand"_Straken|large amount of cybernetics]] [[Iron Hands|to the point]] [[Adeptus Mechanicus|where there isn't enough fleshy bits left for him to "die."]]
*He kept himself from dying through sheer force of will, because he's just that much of a spiteful cunt. This is the explanation favored by IA itself.
*His gene-seed was somehow modified to grant him greater regenerative capabilities.
*[[Phoenix Lord|His name and equipment are inherited by the next Chapter Master, possibly alongside his personality through way of engrammatically-enforced memories and personality]].
*He is secretly another [[Perpetual]], in that he literally will come [[Yarrick|back from the dead]] if killed.
*He's a Custodes in disguise (see talk page for the full original theory)

He possibly parallels [[Khorne]] himself, symbolically or otherwise, as his description says his name is a byword for slaughter, he rules over a chapter of raging berserkers that seek out worthy opponents, he comes back after allegedly dying which makes him more an undying concept than an individual (just as Khorne is the undying concept of hate, slaughter, and rage itself), and he's described as spending his off-battle time sitting on his "brazen throne" measuring the drops of blood that his chapter spilt. He is named after the eponymous [[Minotaur]] (a being which Khorne himself appears similar to in some depictions as well).

There is a theory (which the Inquisition keeps deleting) that Moloc is a Custodes due to his great size, strength, durability, survival, and his possible Custodes weaponry. This branches into other things such as a High Lords' Custodes made in secret, a rogue Custodes siding with them over the Emperor, or that he is essentially the Legio Custodes version of a Commissar for the Chapter. Since the Minotaurs seem to have been indoctrinated to serve the High Lords, not the Emperor, the Custodes would definitely want control over that. What better than to have it be led by someone capable of slaughtering the Chapter by himself if necessary? Fear ensures loyalty! Even better, since the Minotaurs specialize in killing Astartes. Who do the Custodians hate for not being loyal enough to the Emperor personally? Astartes.

Fun fact: Asterion is the true name of the original [[Minotaur]] from [[Mythology]].
==On the Tabletop==
{| class=wikitable
! || Pts || WS || BS || S || T || W || I || A || Ld || Sv
|-
| '''Asterion Moloc:''' || 235 || 6 || 5 || 4 || 4 || 4 || 5 || 4 || 10 || 2+/3++
|}

On the battlefield he is incredibly expensive to field: Just as much as [[Lugft Huron]] and just under [[Marneus Calgar|The M.A.C. Daddy's]] point cost. In return you get a beast in Terminator armor with 4 wounds, a Storm Shield, an S6 AP2 weapon that strikes in Initiative order, Frag Grenades and all the goodies you'd expect from a Chapter Master. He also gives his squad Fearless and Frag Grenades through his special rule, meaning that [[Awesome|somehow he wills fragmentation grenades into being through nothing but his sheer]] [[RAGE]], which is something that even the [[Angry Marines]] have to respect. He also has the ability to give the really shitty Minotaur Chapter Tactic an upgrade, giving every model who has it Preferred Enemy (Space Marines) in addition (yes this does mean any and all Loyalist marines, regardless of Codex), which by itself is almost worth taking him considering how many Marines are around now.

<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="100%">
Asterion Moloc is also a grade A++ character hunter able to kill Lysander, Calgar, Draigo, and Mephiston easily, and have a fair crack at Abbadon and the Swarmlord. In other words just about anyone short of a Black Mace Daemon Prince or [[Chapter Master Smashfucker|Smashfucker]] had better get on their knees and start sucking when Moloc start rolling in. Don't think you can win a challenge against him, he will rip off any balls of adamantium you think you have and force feed them to you, and get victory points for doing it. If you're running a Minotaurs army and ''do not'' take Moloc as your Warlord consider yourself an official retard in the eyes of [[/tg/]]. Enclosed in this section is how Asterion Moloc fares against all other named Chapter Masters (or their closest equivalents), since he's basically tailor made to kill them. [https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Asterion-Moloc-and-Ivanus-Enkomi-of-the-Minotaurs His model is also fucking awesome]

<div class="mw-collapsible-content">
* Asterion Moloc VS Papa Smurf
**Marneus Calgar, wearing the Armour of Antilochus attacks 5 times, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.083 times, causing 0.694 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc attacks 4 times, hits 2.333 times, wounds 2.268 times, causing 1.134 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc wins.
**Asterion Moloc starts off strong, dealing nearly twice the damage Papa Smurf can deal back, even though he has fewer attacks. Note that Marneus Calgar could choose Iron Resolve for his warlord trait, in which case he'll get a mutual KO against Moloc thanks to the fact that his fists aren't Unwieldy.

* Asterion Moloc VS Shrike
**Shrike attacks 4 times, hitting 2.2 times (because master-crafted), wounding 1.65 times, causing 0.321 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc attacks 4 times, hits 2.333 times, wounds 2.268 times, causing 1.134 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc wins.
**A bit of an unfair fight, after all Shrike is armed with just an AP3 weapon and he just became a Chapter Master very recently, he hasn't even received a normal Chapter Master's statline yet.

* Asterion Moloc VS Captain Lysander
**Lysander attacks 3 times, hitting 1.875 times (because master-crafted), wounding 1.563 times, causing 0.521 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc attacks 4 times, hits 2.333 times, wounds 2.268 times, causing 0.503 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc wins.
**While not a Chapter Master, Lysander might as well be one as he certainly has the statline and special rules to be one, and puts up the hardest fight yet. Unfortunately the end result comes down to one factor, Lysander has the Unwieldy rule, and Moloc does not, allowing him to kill Lysander just before he dies. Even including Concussive, Lysander just cannot put out enough damage to keep Moloc Concussed throughout the fight (not to mention Moloc isn't concussed in the turn he finishes off Lysander).

* Asterion Moloc VS Pedro Kantor
**Pedro Kantor attacks 4 times, hitting 2 times, wounding 1.666 times, causing 0.555 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc attacks 4 times, hits 2.333 times, wounds 2.268 times, causing 0.756 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc wins.
**Putting out the third toughest fight so far is Pedro thanks to Iron Resolve, unfortunately just like Lysander he loses the damage race.

* Asterion Moloc VS High Marshal Helbrecht
**Helbrecht attacks 4 times, hitting 2.2 times (MC), wounding 1.1 times, causing 0.183 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc attacks 4 times, hits 2.333 times, wounds 2.268 times, causing 1.134 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc wins.
**Rounding off the sons of Dorn, this fight is more of a joke thanks to Helbrecht lacking an AP2 weapon, as such he's crushed just as he normally is whenever he'd up against an opponent wearing terminator armour.

* Asterion Moloc VS Lugft Huron
**Huron attacks 4 times, hitting 2 times, wounding 1.5 times, causing 0.833 wounds after saves (thanks to Ghost Razor).
**Asterion Moloc attacks 4 times, hits 2.333 times, wounds 2.268 times, causing 1.134 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc wins.
**While Huron puts out a very impressive amount of damage, he simply cannot kill Moloc fast enough.

* Asterion Moloc VS Lias Issodon
**Lias attacks 3 times, hitting 1.5 times, wounding 0.75 times, causing 0.125 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc attacks 4 times, hits 3.111 times, wounds 3.025 times, causing 3.025 wounds after saves since Lias has no listed invuln.
**Asterion Moloc wins.
**A complete joke of a fight that's so pathetic it's not even funny, which it should be since Lias is not made for close combat. If Moloc charges and has hatred from a chaplain he can kill Lias in just one round.

* Asterion Moloc VS Tyberos The Red Wake
**Tyberos attacks 5 times, hitting 2.917 times, wounding 2.836 times, causing 0.945 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc attacks 4 times, hits 2.333 times, wounds 2.268 times, causing 1.512 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc wins.
**A combat monster, Tyberos can certainly dish out the hurt, he just can't take it as he's stuck with only a 5+ invuln.

* Asterion Moloc VS Lord High Commander Carab Culln
**Culln attacks 2 times (smashing as AP2 is better than 4 attacks at AP3), hitting 1.167 times, wounding 0.973 times, causing 0.324 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc attacks 4 times, hits 2.333 times, wounds 2.268 times, causing 1.134 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc wins.
**Culln is proud to live, proud to die, and not hard at all to kill in this fight.

* Asterion Moloc VS Malakim Phoros
**Malakim Round 1: Phoros attacks 4 times, hitting 3 times, wounding 2 times, causing 0.333 wounds after saves.
**Malakim Round 2 and on: Phoros attacks 5 times, hitting 2.708 times, wounding 1.805 times, causing 0.301 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc attacks 4 times, hits 2.333 times, wounds 2.268 times, causing 1.134 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc wins.
**Malakim Phoros is another pretty good melee beatstick that is sadly unsuited for this fight thanks to his AP3 power glaive.

* Asterion Moloc VS Commander Dante
**Dante attacks 5 times, hitting 2.708 times, wounding 2.257 times, causing 0.752 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc attacks 4 times, hits 2.333 times, wounds 2.268 times, causing 1.134 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc wins.
**Dante puts up a good fight, and can attempt to close the gap a little with Hit and Run, unfortunately even if he manages to get perfect Hit and Run rolls, and getting the charge every single turn he still cannot cause even 1 wound per turn.

* Asterion Moloc VS Gabriel Seth
**Gabriel attacks 4 times, hitting 2 times, wounding 1.666 times, causing 0.323 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc attacks 4 times, hits 2.333 times, wounds 2.268 times, causing 1.134 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc wins.
**Unfortunately Gabriel Seth would have a hard time dealing with a Captain if they wearing power armour, let alone a Chapter Master in terminator armour thanks to his AP4 weapon.

* Asterion Moloc VS Kaldor Draigo
**Draigo attacks 4 times, hitting 2.2 times, wounding 1.833 times, causing 0.611 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc attacks 4 times, hits 2.333 times, wounds 2.268 times, causing 0.756 wounds after saves.
**Asterion Moloc wins.
**While certainly an impressive fighter and very resilient, Draigo loses the damage race, dying one turn before he can kill Moloc.

*[[TL;DR]]: Moloc's built for wiping out Space Marines, and it's a job he does very well despite not having that impressive of a statline (it's the same as the generic Chapter Master), outdamaging everyone except Lysander, who he still manages to beat since he strikes first. The closest match in the entire list is Marneus Calgar, since Calgar can give himself Iron Resolve, in which case the fight ends in a draw.
**Note, Mephiston isn't included in this list both because he's not a Chapter Master and because he has no listed invuln, which means he'll be dead within two turns.
</div></div>

===8th Edition===
Lord Moloc is still a beast in 8th Edition. A beefy statline paired with the altered Black Spear (S+2 AP-3 D3, +1 Attack against characters) means that while he's less likely to cause individual wounds, once he hits something it STAYS hit. The Black Spear's shooting attack is now a 12" S8 AP-2 Dd3 trick that he can use as a regular attack, so make sure to get some zaps in. He also has some new auras: he gets the standard [[Chapter Master]] aura where all units (not just infantry) within 6" of him get to re-roll failed to hit rolls (this includes himself) and Minotaurs Infantry units get to re-roll failed Charge rolls (so the guy is fast as well), Moloc himself gets to make his attacks when he's slain in combat in case he dies before attacking and on top of all that he can teleport in like a a regular Terminator as well. All in all Moloc is less the death machine on legs that he used to be, but he still has a good shot at murdering dead anyone who gets in his way.
If you want some extra FUN give him The Imperium Sword warlord trait, so that when charing he can mulch through T7 targets. Then proclaim thyself as the White scars successor (because Great White Bull ftw!)
And then slap another warlord trait ontop of it! Extra D3 attacks the turn he charges (Chogorian Storm) will surely make the enemy cower in fear.
Or you can go for Monster slayer, beacuse +1 to rolls against Monsters and Vehicles will let him RIP&TEAR through tanks.

{{Marines-Characters}}

[[Category:Space Marines Chapter Masters]]

Sons of the Phoenix

2019-12-23T20:48:53Z

2600:1006:B144:5ACF:14A5:782F:4D59:79B3: /* Colors and Heraldry */

{{Infobox Spess Mahreen Chapter
|Name = Sons of the Phoenix
|Heraldry = [[File:SoP SP.jpg|250px]]
|Battle Cry = "From the fires of war we rise!"
|Founding = [[Ultima Founding]]
|Successors of = [[Imperial Fists]] (officially), hinted to be [[Emperor's Children]]
|Successor Chapters = None
|Chapter Master = Unknown
|Primarch = [[Rogal Dorn]] (officially), hinted to be [[Fulgrim]]
|Homeworld = Unknown
|Numbers = Unknown
|Allegiance = [[Imperium]]
|Colours = White, purple, and gold
}}

{{Topquote|Oh, ye Omnissiah! My progenoids are ruined! But what if... I were to acquire traitor geneseed and disguise it as Imperial Fists? Hohoho, delightfully devilish, Belisarius!|Belisarius Cawl, moments before Guilliman entered the room}}

{{Topquote|I-Imperial Fists successors?! With that kind of name, with that kind of color scheme, using that kind of warcry, emblazoned with that kind of chapter heraldry?!|Primarch Guilliman, further questioning Cawl about the chapter's questionable details.}}

The Sons of the Phoenix are a loyalist chapter of the [[Adeptus Astartes]], created as part of the Ultima Founding. They are (supposedly) successors of the Imperial Fists. Like their cousins in the [[Black Templars]], the Sons are always crusading, all the time, and they wear a shit-ton of relics, purity seals, and votive candles to show off their devotion to the [[Emperor]].

Apparently, after a grueling battle, some Sons of the Phoenix were taken prisoner by a Thousand Sons warband for experiments, beating [[Fabulous Bile|FABULOUS Bile]] to it.

==Colors and Heraldry==
The Sons of the Phoenix wear off-white power armor, apparently to display their purity. Which is funny because off-white implies stained puri-oh, right. The right arm and shoulder and left knee are painted violet, and their chest insignia and shoulder trim are gold. Company markings, unit designations, and specialty insignias are all gold. The squad specialty marking is displayed on the right shoulder, and the company number is displayed as a Roman numeral on either the left knee or inside the squad marking. A smaller company specialty marking is also displayed on the left knee beside the company number.

Curiously, their sergeants and lieutenants have had their helmet markings switched around; Sons of the Phoenix lieutenants wear solid red helmets, while the sergeants wear white helmets with a red stripe. This actually makes more sense, though. Adding more red with higher rank makes much more sense than “suddenly red” and then “nopes, took ya red, have a stripe” with rank progressing up.

==Chapter Badge==
The chapter's badge is a black helmet next to a black star. The helmet is crested with lightning bolts, and a swept wing protrudes from the bottom.

==Not At All Suspicious==
The symbols, iconography, name, and color scheme bear no small similarity to pre-heresy [[Emperor's Children]]. Whether this is due to blinding coincidence or the deliberate raising of chapters with traitor legion geneseed is a secret likely known only to Cawl (Guilliman explicitly told Cawl he wasn't allowed to do it - but he has a feeling the Archmagos may have done it anyway behind his back) (also, Cawl might have done it ''before'' asking permission, and then sensibly did not ask for forgiveness). See also the fucking name: ''Sons of the Phoenix''. Yeah. Really subtle, GW. (''For those of you who don't know, the Primarch Fulgrim of the Emperors Children was also known as the Palatine Phoenix, and the Phoenician (which GW [[Pretend|pretends]] [[Derp|means phoenix]]*). Read: Sons of the Phoenix=Sons of Fulgrim'')

(* Note: The name Phoenician, like Latin Poenī, comes from Greek Φοίνικες (Phoínikes). The word φοῖνιξ (phoînix) meant variably "Phoenician person", "'''Tyrian purple''', crimson" or "date palm" and is attested with all three meanings already in Homer. The mythical bird phoenix also carries the same name, but this meaning is not attested until centuries later. The word may be derived from φοινός phoinós "blood-red", itself possibly related to φόνος phónos "murder".)

==Gallery==
<gallery>
File:Sons of the Phoenix.jpg|He's got purity seals, must be 100% Loyal.
</gallery>

{{Marines-Official}}

[[Category:Primaris Marines]]