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Lawful Stupid

2021-01-03T08:06:44Z

2600:1700:19C0:2760:F99A:635F:2ECD:7EAC:

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[[File:Obligatum VII.jpg|300px|thumb|right|[[Inevitable|Obligatum]] [[Elder Evils#Pandorym|VII]], the posterboy of Lawful Stupid.]]
{{Topquote|You wear your honor like a suit of armor, Stark. You think it keeps you safe, but all it does is weigh you down and make it hard for you to move.|[[A Song of Ice and Fire|Lord Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish to Lord Eddard Stark.]]}}

'''Lawful Stupid''' is gamer slang (derived from the [[Dungeons & Dragons]] [[alignment]] system, but can easily be applied to [[character]]s in any [[role-playing game]] as well as fiction in general) for a specific way of playing a [[Lawful Good]] or, especially, a [[Lawful Neutral]] character, most infamously a [[Paladin]]. It is characterized by lack of common sense, following the rules arbitrarily without actually understanding them and just generally being an annoying prick. He's [[that guy]] who will stop a chase scene because he has to chastise someone that was jaywalking. Lawful Stupid players are one of the main reasons (along with asshole [[DM]]s) why people dislike the Paladin class. It can also be a jab at the fact that Intelligence is a common [[dump stat]] for Paladins in 3.5, since their [[MAD]] mandates high Charisma and Wisdom, the traditional dump stats of combat classes. [[Pathfinder]] allows them to dump Wisdom, the only class that can really do so, making this even worse.

Although the iconic Lawful Stupid character is a poorly-played Paladin (Alignment requirement: Lawful Good), non-Paladin depictions are almost invariably [[Lawful Neutral]], since this kind of characterization is a disappointingly logical extrapolation from a character alignment that can be summed up as "[[Judge Dredd|the Law is the Law and all that matters is that it is the law;]] [[Derp|whether or not it helps or hurts people is irrelevant, the LAW must be upheld!]]"

A lot of this really stems from a surface understanding of the Lawful alignment. While following the law is a lawful act, following the rules is not the end-all definition of the Lawful alignment. Lawful means orderly. So the type of person who religiously organizes their sock drawer would be considered Lawful. A Lawful person can disagree with the laws of the land, wanting to replace them with new laws. It's the desire for order and logic that matters. Of course these would be sensible Lawful people, and therefor not "Lawful Stupid".

Compare to [[Chaotic Stupid]], [[Stupid Evil]], [[Stupid Good]], and [[Stupid Neutral]]. There really are a lot of ways to be stupid in fantasy games, aren't there?

== How to avoid it while playing Lawful Good ==
The [[Discworld]] series by Terry Pratchett, in particular any scenes with the Witches of Lancre or the Ankh Morpork City Watch, are all but required reading for understand Granny Weatherwax, Sam Vimes, and Carrot Ironfoundersson are all (probably) Lawful Good, but all add their own twists on the formula. Carrot possesses such a high Charisma score that he can literally [[Diplomancer|charm people into doing what he wants]], but when that fails he tricks people into doing what he wants, technically avoiding a non-Lawful alignment by twisting the law into a pretzel when he can. Vimes follows both the letter and the spirit of the Law whenever he can stretch it, but isn't above committing illegal acts to uphold Lawful purposes. Granny is Evil by nature, but Good by necessity and ''hates'' it, since her sister got first pick on the question "are you a good witch or a bad witch?" and chose to be bad. To combat this, she continually takes out her frustration on other people by acting like the spiteful and entitled octogenarian that she technically is, avoiding a fall into True Neutral or Neutral Evil because witches are ''supposed'' to act a bit nutty, even the Lawful ones, and none of it matters as long as she does what's capital-r Right.

The AD&D book "The Complete Paladin's Handbook" has a section ("Virtues", page 33) on the behavior and code of conduct a Paladin normally upholds; that of a gracious and well-mannered individual who respects good and the law, but is not on an endless crusade to uphold it. They would not upset a tavern just because they detected an evil presence within and risk causing chaos, for example.

Another way to play lawful good is to play your paladin like a modern soldier: able and willing to do anything needed to win, except as decreed by certain laws and customs of war, e.g. for example, the Geneva and Hague Conventions. Those laws still restrict the actions of a soldier, but he is still expected to act with common sense in order to achieve victory and not follow orders that violate those laws.

== How to avoid it while playing lawful neutral ==
This is arguably even harder than avoiding it whilst playing Lawful Good; at least Lawful Good types are ''supposed'' to balance their calling to law & order vs. their calling to good. Lawful Neutral types are often categorized by their firm belief that law and order are the only things of importance, with morality being dismissed as insignificant next to maintaining of order. The primary key to doing so is to keep a proper perspective; traffic laws, for example, have their place in the scheme of things. When you are racing to prevent the nuclear annihilation of a city is ''not'' that place. Don't get so bogged down with legal minutia that you allow far greater acts of destruction and anarchy to occur in whilst you attend to the little things.

[[Judge Dredd]] can be a good example of this. For example, in the opening sequence of the 2012 ''Dredd'' movie, he pursues a car full of criminals but does not shoot at them until they collide with and kill a pedestrian, and even then only shoots to disable the van's tires. He doesn't shoot to kill until one of them threatens to kill a hostage and refuses to accept an offer to surrender. Also, when he sees a vagrant sitting outside the crime scene Dredd tells him not to be there when he gets back instead of arresting him because he has better things to do at the moment. Of course, when he's just doing the rounds on his birthday, he'll issue noise citations to children who sing to him because <s>he is The Law</s> it's just plain embarrassing (and then donate the presents he receives to an orphanage because he's not [[That Guy]]). But not always a good example, like the time in the 1995 movie when Dredd suggested Rob Schneider's character jump off the top of a building rather than vandalize a robot to hide in during a shootout, since as Dredd points out, jumping might be suicide, ''but it's legal''.

This is not to say that a Lawful Neutral character doesn't recognize when they break the law or go against the general sense of law (Law) when called to; they do, and they're likely to be annoyed by it. Tenya Iida from My Hero Academia explores this concept, although he can sometimes break into Lawful Stupid, too.

== Examples of Lawful Stupid ==
* The [[Inevitable]]s, divine [[golem]]-like beings with the duty to enact laws and enforce contracts. There's a story of one named "Obligatum VII" (the seventh in its line because six times prior people had the common sense to stop him) who trying to free the [[BBEG]] in a campaign from the book [[Elder Evils]]. The story goes that some mages summoned an eldritch abomination named [[Pandorym]] to blackmail the gods, making a contract with it to destroy the universe when it was summoned. The wizards imprisoned Pandorym instead of finishing the ritual to let it loose so that it wouldn't destroy the universe before they were ready, but the gods just smote the stupid wizards the instant they were done imprisoning Pandorym so he's stuck. Well, Obligatum is here to set things right, and make sure that poor, imprisoned death machine gets the freedom it was promised to carry out its goal, which through some warped sense of honor it is willing to do. How exactly this does not bring him into conflict with another type of Inevitable, the Varakhut, whose job it is to prevent deicide is a whole other box of worms.
* The [[Harmonium]] from [[Planescape]]. ''"The Harmonium believes that peace is a better end than war. [...] If it takes thumping heads to spread the truth, well, the Harmonium's ready to thump heads. Sure, there may not be peace right away, but every time the Harmonium gets rid of an enemy, the multiverse is that much closer to the universal harmony it was meant to have."'' This attitude is how the third layer of [[Arcadia]] shifted into [[Mechanus]], and the gods of Arcadia had to start over. Whoops. What's more, don't forget that they exterminated all non-lawful ''good and neutral'' species in the world where their faction originated. Some good.
* The [[Modron]] race, similarly to the Inevitables above, due to being extraplanar mechanical lifeforms who embody Lawful Neutral. Except they somehow have even less personality. Imagine a poorly-written chatbot with arms, legs and the ability to beat you over the head; that's basically a Modron. They can't even understand the idea that their assumptions may be incorrect.
* [[Helm]], the Lawful Neutral God of Guardians and Watchmen from the [[Forgotten Realms]] has earned this kind of reputation in-universe. Nobody will ''ever'' let him live it down that, during the [[Time of Troubles]], he killed Mystara, the Goddess of Magic, for trying to get back into the upper planes after Ao kicked them all out, despite the fact he knew that this would severely damage the fabric of reality in the process. As a result, [[wild magic]] zones and dead magic zones are commonly called "Helmlands". He also catches a lot of flak for the role his worshippers played in the massacres in [[Maztica]], but that's not so much Lawful Stupid as religious bigotry and the priest's only daughter being sacrificed by one of the natives.
* The stereotypical [[Space Marine]]. Stealth is cowardice, frontal assaults are the only way to go. On the occasion they do utilize tactics like stealth, feints, and flanking, it's all to help the frontal assault succeed rather than the other way around. Retreating is never an option, even if it's to gain more cover. Some will never field [[psyker]]s, ignore [[xenos]], and some won't even cooperate with other [[Space Marine Chapter]]s. A special case being [[Warhammer 40,000 Space Marine|Leandros]].
* The Starks from [[A Song of Ice and Fire|Game of Thrones]]. When Ned Stark finds out that Joffrey and his siblings are incest born bastards, he does the most asinine thing possible and tells Cersei, instead of going to Robert directly. He also tells his daughters of his plan, which causes Sansa to blab to everybody. His son Robb Stark has even more fuckups, namely executing one of his top generals when he should have kept him around (though said Karstark general undeniably disrespected his authority), failing to communicate with Edmure (though Edmure is incompetent), and blatantly breaking his promise to Walder Frey because he felt bad he screwed some other chick and decided to marry her in order to keep their honor intact (though Walder is admittedly a backstabbing opportunist who might have betrayed him anyway, as Robb was undoubtedly losing the war. Also, Walder’s choice to violate one of the most valued rules of honor that even pirates, thieves and murderers keep, simultaneously fucked over his own side by becoming the group absolutely nobody on any side wants to be associated with. Not even the people he betrays Robb in favor of). This kind of shit ends up with the Starks practically destroyed.
** An important qualifier is that these decisions aren't entirely motivated by stupid adherence to honour, with personal history heavily motivating the decisions or with the full consequences of the actions not being immediately obvious.
* The Jedi from the Star Wars Prequels are this, as [[Ultramarines|they followed the Jedi Code - which was meant as a mere guideline - as a set of unbreakable rules]] and set out to completely repress all emotion in somewhat unfounded fear of those emotions leading to the dark side, when they should have acknowledged that which makes us human and simply taught how to use them positively. Such arbitrarily following of the code leads the Council to turn a blind eye to the various problems Anakin Skywalker was having, thereby unintentionally sealing their own downfall.
** Works set before the Prequels shows that this is hardly a new problem for the Jedi Order. Knights Of The Old Republic II features a Jedi named Atris who's incredibly obsessed with following the code to the letter and wiping out the Sith. This leads to her being filled with bitterness and remorse after her best friend/secret crush the Exile is kicked out of the Order, but also leaves her too arrogant to talk to anyone about it. Instead she starts to hide herself away in a temple filled with Sith holocrons to be alone and meditate, and since Sith holocrons literally exude Dark Side-tainted Force energy, she gets unknowingly corrupted into a Sith. Yes, she was so Lawful Stupid that it ''turned her evil''.
* The [[Dwarfs (Warhammer Fantasy)|Dawi]]. They are obsessed with the concept of revenge, as '''all Grudges must be answered for.''' This causes them to wage many unnecessary wars, which is especially stupid since they are a dying race. The fluff speaks of two dwarven lords who were fighting each other in a generation-spanning War of Grudges, even while they were being invaded by an Orc warband. The two lords eventually got together and realized that neither of them remembered what their clans were fighting over, forgave each other, and resolved to ally against the Orcs beating down on their gates. Both sides were promptly crushed by a cave-in caused by ''the gods themselves'' for failing to avenge their respective Grudges and the Orcs got to loot another Karak without difficulty.
* The [[Azorius Senate|Azorius]] from [[Magic: The Gathering]]. The guild makes so many laws that they can literally arrest ANYONE, and then justify it by finding one of the myriad of pointless laws they've passed that the individual has undoubtedly broken. They'll even arrest someone for merely ''thinking'' about breaking a law (see the card [http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=270794| Psychic Spiral] for proof.) This culminates in them, under Dovin Baan, endorsing [[Bolas]] in ''War of the Spark'' - doesn't matter if there's undead killing everyone and everything erupting into war, as long as your guildleader is officially elected everything is fine.
* The Sangheli, or Elites, from the [[Halo]] franchise. With a ridiculously rigid Bushido-style code of honor that makes the Ultramarines seem like pragmatic chaps, the Elites have often lost battles to humans they could have otherwise won, if they weren't so blindingly "honorable" (Ignoring for the minute that they had no problem turning a planet into slag.) Full frontal assaults, suicide charges, blindingly following three shady testicle-looking douchebags, and a stupid insistence on fighting the enemy fairly are all par for the course. But the most glaring example of their stupidity has to come from the fact that they consider it a [[What|dishonor to either get their own blood shed off the battlefield or become involved in a medical practice]]. Even Klingons aren't that stupid. The only reason they even win against the Jiralhanae (Brutes) is because the Brutes are more Stupid Evil than the Sangheli are Lawful Stupid. [[Humanity Fuck Yeah|Well, that, and the fact that they had allied with the Humans by that point.]]
* The Nugganite religion, from Terry Pratchett's ''Monstrous Regiment'': the decrees of the Borogravian god Nuggan forbid everything from garlic, chocolate, and the smell of beets, to the color blue and ''babies''. Many Borogravians privately acknowledge that most of Nuggan's Abominations are completely ridiculous (and let the most extreme ones slide, because they're virtually impossible to enforce anyway), even while fretting about which Abominations they're currently committing. Due the way belief works in Discworld, Nugganites came to believe in nothing but the Abominations themselves, which diverted worship away from Nuggan himself. In the end, it's revealed that Nuggan has rotted away until nothing is left but a disembodied voice babbling Abominations nonstop.
* For the literature amateurs, Inspector Javert form ''Les Misérables''. As the author himself explained: the man was built upon two simple and good precepts, namely respect of authority and refusal of rebellion; but he made those look evil in his fanatical exaggeration of them. In a rare occurrence for that kind of character, Javert ends up overcoming the stupid part of the alignment as part of his character arc: When finally faced with a Lawful Good convict, he [[Blam|BLAMs himself]] rather than capture him (or let him go and live as an imperfect cop). Way to get out of a Paladin dilemma.
** As Hugo injected a ton of social criticism in his books, public servants putting the law above morals is a recurring theme. Ninety-Three has Cimourdain, a political commissar during the French Revolution, who ends up condemning his own adoptive son to death for freeing a traitor. Much like Javert, he takes his own life during the execution.
*Speaking of [[Commissar]]s, although protagonists like [[Colonel-Commissar Ibram Gaunt|Ibram Gaunt]] or [[Ciaphas Cain]] will mostly be sensible individuals (if only because nobody wants to read about a teamkilling fucktard for a dozen or so books), background commissars in the Imperial Guard are often the epitome of Lawful Stupid: You left your post to report vital intel to Headquarters? That's a summary execution for ya.

[[Category:Dungeons & Dragons]][[Category:Alignment]][[Category:Stupid Alignments]]

Stupid Good

2021-01-03T08:06:23Z

2600:1700:19C0:2760:F99A:635F:2ECD:7EAC:

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{{Topquote|Ignoring what he's done in the past. Blindly, stupidly disregarding the entire graveyards he's filled, the thousands who have suffered, the friends he's crippled.|Jason Todd to Batman about Joker, nailing how Stupid Good characters actually end up causing massive harm for the sake of their own "morals."}}

{{Topquote|Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.|Dark Helmet, ''Spaceballs'', having just casually disarmed Lone Starr with a trick that even [[Lawful Stupid|Ned Stark]] would have seen coming.}}

'''Stupid Good''' is a term derived from the [[Dungeons & Dragons]] [[alignment]] system, but can easily be applied to [[character]]s in any [[role-playing game]] in fact, it can be applied to characters in any medium, for a specific way of playing a morally good character, usually a [[Paladin]] with a relatively even split between this and [[Lawful Stupid]].

==Definition==
[[File:Stupid Good Bender.jpg|300px|right]]
A Stupid Good character takes actions with good intent, but without regard to long-term consequences and obeying one typically "good" principle while ''completely'' disregarding all other principles. This alignment is not at all selfish, just rigid to the point of insanity. For example, a character might refuse to lie (an action that, in a neutral context, is usually considered "bad") under any circumstances. If asked by a serial killer whether he'd seen a man running past, such a character might say that he did see that man running past, even though this would realistically lead to the man's entire family being tortured to death. A good rule of thumb is to ask whether any person in real life would consider this to be an ethical and reasonable course of action. If not, time to check for Stupid Good.

Batman's treatment of the Joker is probably the most famous example. By not only refusing to kill the evil clown, but often saving his life, Batman has enabled the murder of millions of people. When it comes to deciding which action is right, they pick one specific idea (don't kill the Joker) and make it the absolute cornerstone of their decisions on morality. This also highlights another aspect of a Stupid Good character - they can be shown to be intelligent in many other ways. A refusal to kill an enemy is probably the most common form of Stupid Good presented in media. This is usually applied selectively instead of generally, as a character who refuses to kill the villain may have just burned twenty of the villain's henchmen to death without a second thought. The villain is often spared simply because they are narratively important.

A common thought experiment in the field of ethics is the Trolley Problem, where you have a choice to directly cause the death of one innocent person and save ten people, or save one person and indirectly cause the death of ten others. This can be argued either way, but Stupid Good is a matter of extremes. A dead giveaway of Stupid Good is if that person would not kill the villain even if it would save the lives of a billion people the villain himself put in danger.

While crazy in the context of real life, Stupid Good characters are sometimes shown to be right within the context of their very contrived narrative. Stupid Good cartoon characters can seem to have made the "good" choice, but only in retrospect and only because they got lucky with a one-in-a-million matter of pure chance. A leader with responsibility to subordinates or subjects who acts in this way in real life would clearly be betraying their team in order to "uphold their morals".

In the vast majority of cases, however, a Stupid Good character will become [[That guy]] in a gaming group. The player's Disneyland version of what he thinks a really nice character would do is sure to get in the way of the plot and make it seem very stupid if he is allowed to influence the direction of the story. [[Cegorach|Amusingly]] common in terms of actual game mechanics in Dungeons & Dragons, along with Lawful Stupid. Paladins often suffer from some degree of [[MAD]] in various D&D editions, thus leading to intelligence being a dump stat, leading to characters who are literally lawful good and very, very stupid.

===Examples of Stupid Good===
*The '''Autobots''' particularly from the classic 80s cartoons. Almost incessantly "good" and stubborn in their refusals to do anything remotely bad. Seriously, in the whole run of the original series and the millions of years of war between them and the Decepticons, did they kill anyone?
**Optimus Prime can also be equally described as [[Lawful Stupid]], thanks to shit like the time he let himself get blown up as a consequence of a duel in which he ''knew'' the other guy cheated.
*The '''Organians''' from the original series of [[Star Trek]] are peace lovers to the extreme, to the point in intervening in the Federation/Klingon War and stopping all fighting across the galaxy. Particularly in the expanded content where they refuse to get involved in Q-Wars threatening multiple dimensions of existence.
*[[Batman]]. Just...how many times did he let the Joker live or even went out of his way to save him, FULLY KNOWING that he'd escape Arkham and kill many more innocents, and doing the whole dance over again? Various reasons have been given of varying validity, from "Killing the Joker means ''he wins''" to "Batman is already unhinged and you want him to start ''killing people?''", but the core sentiment remains the same: the Joker is extremely dangerous, clearly incapable of plus unwilling to try rehabilitation, and not containable without drastic measures. Death is probably the most humane option at this point, and sending him back to Arkham is just kicking the can down the road.
** It should be added that this stupidity well goes deeper, even ignoring Batman's part in it: Given that many versions of the Joker have known kills numbering in the three, four, or even five digits, why hasn't he "broken his neck falling down the stairs" or "jumped out a tenth story window" while in Police custody? How did he avoid capital punishment when even pleading insanity has its legal limits? Certain versions of The Joker remaining alive remains somewhat inexplicable in realistic terms, full stop. That's comic book logic for you.
*Ned Stark can both fit into Lawful Stupid and Stupid Good, as his penchant for mercy (he doesn't want Robert to murder Tommen and Myrcella in a fit of rage) ends up getting him executed and generally starting the major clusterfuck known as the War of the Five Kings.
** The War would have likely happened anyway because Stannis and Renly were both gathering armies & planning their moves, plus Littlefinger was playing everybody to destroy the realm while Ned was already on Littlefinger's hitlist for being married to his crush. The real stupid things there were not only not getting his kids out faster (he tried but Sansa wanted to stay), but not getting more trustworthy allies and confronting Cersei privately about her crimes and expecting her to turn herself in. Another note is that Ned’s execution was both unexpected by most and virtually everyone thought it was a bad move. Tywin personally claimed it made no sense and was forced to fight Ned’s angry family as a result. Numerous others acknowledged that they just executed a highly valuable political hostage and pissed off powerful family members and vassals of Ned. Ned himself didn’t expect to be executed because he did his part and knew how valuable he was. Had things gone “normally” (fan theories include Joffrey being insane or Littlefinger whispering into his ear to cause this), Ned would have gotten out alive but still badly off.

==The darker side of goodness==
<blockquote>''"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become a villain." ''</blockquote>

On the flip side of Stupid Good, there are those who attempt to justify whatever it is that they do so long as their characters create good outcomes. In essence as opposed to good '''actions''' "no matter the cost", the other side of stupid good is good '''consequences''' "no matter the cost". Generally those who circumvent moral problems with clever use of ethics and is therefore more often associated with Chaotic Good on the alignment scale ''(though not exclusively).''

This ''"ends justifies the means"'' approach is less like taking good actions to the point of situational absurdity and more like players using logic to create goodness out of absurd situations.

An example of a dilemma surrounding this phenomenon is: Is it morally good to do something evil, to result in an even [[Greater Good]]? Such as killing an innocent to save the king/country/world/universe?

The '''[[Book of Exalted Deeds]]''' says that the above example is most definitely '''not''' a Good act, no matter the intention of the PC and treads the muddy Neutral ground at best, however not all RPGs use the [[D&D]] alignment system, but any RPG that involves some mechanical tracker of morality may inevitably encounter a player action which causes an awkward collective intake of breath, followed by the question of ''"[[This Just Happened|did you really just do that?]]"''.

This is dangerous ground for any potential [[GM]] and needs to be [[Rules Lawyer|decided]] upon firmly when it arises. While there are many examples of real-world applications of the line of thought historically and politically, they are controversial almost without exception. In roleplaying games; the end justifies the means approach can certainly be seen as upholding the "moral good", but if a GM allows attitudes like this to take root, savvy players may eventually find reasons to do anything and have essentially just become [[Murderhobo]]s with apparent moral authority, and it can force hard-alignment systems to lose their legitimacy.

If "Good" players start justifying why they are [[Imperium|seeking out and slaying whole villages]] of Orcs "just BECAUSE they are evil" or if they are committing acts of [[Alpha Legion|terrorism against an oppressive state]] even when that state system is perfectly codified and functional then a GM should probably think about dropping any alignment systems rather than attempt to enforce muddy and dubious decisions.

===Examples of "Good" done Stupidly===
* The [[Tau]] in 40k, though with particular reference to the harsher side of the [[Greater Good]] where they believe that people can be forcibly brought into harmony with one another. It's not terribly unreasonable given that pretty much everyone else in the setting is either [[Orks|insane]], [[Chaos Space Marine|evil]], or [[Imperium of Man|xenophobic]] ([[Dark Eldar|or all three]]) to the point where almost nobody gets along without a gun to their head.
*[[Konrad Curze]] - VERY VERY much so, despite the fact he [[Noblebright|brought crime and corruption on his world to near-zero, improving efficiency and bringing hope]] to his world, he was NOT a good person, no matter what he was attempting to argue.
*The '''Organians''' again; Though only in [[/v/|video games]] where they have given up the non-violent approach and decide to force everyone into peace by [[derp|declaring war on them]].
* Stannis Baratheon, from the show adaptation of A Song of Ice and Fire. He keeps on committing morally dubious and sometimes even downright villainous acts, such as sacrificing his own daughter to a fire god, in order to save Westeros from a bunch of evil elves, their zombie minions, and their Darth Maul lookalike leader; all at the behest of a crazed priestess who can't see that Stannis is NOT the chosen hero of yore, which she has fooled both herself and him into believing. In other words, he's a more well intentioned Macbeth who will end up with the same fate.

[[Category:Dungeons & Dragons]][[Category:Alignment]][[Category:Stupid Alignments]]

Stupid Neutral

2021-01-03T08:05:58Z

2600:1700:19C0:2760:F99A:635F:2ECD:7EAC:

{{fail}}
[[File:Neutral_Embassy.jpg|300px|thumb|right|It's kind of like this.]]
{{Topquote|What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?|Zapp Brannigan}}
'''Stupid Neutral''' is a term applied to [[character]]s in any [[role-playing game]] for a specific way of playing a character as absolutely "neutral" in [[alignment]]. Much like [[Stupid Good]] which is Good for goodness's sake, and [[Stupid Evil]] for evil's sake, [[Chaotic Stupid]] for the sake of being chaotic and [[Lawful Stupid]] in following the law even when it doesn't make sense, Stupid Neutral is perhaps the most fried among [[Stupid Alignments]] and represents neutrality for neutrality's sake.

==Definition==
Normally, players who play a neutral character will behave ambivalently towards good/evil or law/chaos, depending where exactly on each axis they sit - the obvious caveat is that at least one aspect of the alignment axis would guide their actions (i.e.: Neutral Good). This means that Stupid Neutral players "should" generally gravitate towards only one alignment: '''True Neutral'''.

But there are a number of problems maintaining that "True" Neutral status, and that problem mostly surrounds the fact that as sentient creatures, we all understand the concept of morality and law, even if we as people don't agree with them. Thus in roleplaying terms, people who espouse "neutrality" generally either accept it and work with it, or can't be bothered by it and events happen anyway.

In theory, a "proper" True Neutral would be more reactive, basically not going out of your way to do anything evil or good and just getting on with things like a normal person - if a sweet payday comes up that requires killing a few folks, you do it since you need the money and you think you can get away with it, rather than for any ideological reason or out of a desire to kill; then,1 you pay your lawful taxes because to do otherwise just invites trouble.

Stupid Neutrality generally requires either being active about it ''(i.e. a conscious desire to maintain a neutral status)'' or absolutely passive ''(i.e. you don't factor important things like consequences into your decision making at all)''. There ''is'' another way, however...

===Passive Neutrality===
Ambivalence towards alignment generally implies they are not bothered by it, or more precisely does not care about the implications of this larger moral frame work. Someone attempting to "act" True Neutral while running with that "don't care" aspect might as well just be Chaotic Neutral anyway: they'll make decisions based upon whatever suits them at a given moment in time, and can be trusted to have the same moral capacity of a chimpanzee. These are the sorts of people who rationalise stealing your shit because they "needed" it rather than out of any particular sort of malice or avarice - but unlike an animal, they actually understood the moral and legal ramifications of their actions and did it anyway.

It could be possible in gameplay to actually play this version of True Neutral to the point of Stupidity, but generally speaking, your [[GM]] cannot really account for your intentions, and only your actions. One '''''can''''' make the argument that following the law does not necessarily make you lawful, and that's true, but constant and willful disregard for the law ''(even if you aren't breaking any laws at that given moment in time)'' is very often considered a chaotic mentality, especially if you know and understand the laws you're breaking and the consequences of doing it. For instance, if you do steal something or injure/kill someone who was only doing their day job, and then knowingly put that person or their family out of business and you don't really care about it, then you've probably done something evil. However, if you justify that your need was greater ''irrespective of any greater good'' ([[Tau|shut up]]), even then you still can't really escape the fact that you've probably done something chaotic.

Of course, it is possible to play passive neutrality without being stupid about it, but likely that renders you an uncontroversial civilian bystander and not a sword-toting heroic adventurer. And at that point, why are you even here?

One can also view passive neutrality, good or bad, as a sort of Skyrim-PC mentality. Accept quests from everyone, whether you agree with them or their organization, make no enemies (or as few as absolutely possible), and generally avoid conflict, taking a stand, or killing anyone who might have a job for you later.

===Active Neutrality===
This is where Neutral gets really stupid...

WANNABE True Neutral players are making a stance on neutrality, as if the cosmos needs to keep good and evil in a state of balance and that neither is better than the other. But if you think a mystic balance needs to be enforced to the point of anal retention, then congratulations: you've just become Lawful Neutral, since all you're doing is [[Just as Planned|imposing or restoring the Universal order]].

This holds especially true if the player is the sort of obsessive narc who tells his compatriots to stop being so good or lawful because the universe is keeping score and needs the balance tipped carefully in the other direction - [[Stupid Evil|perils of checklisting your morality aside]], if you're so intent on see-sawing back and forward on the alignment axis that you eventually start beating up Angels because [[Derp|"the universe needs balancing out"]], then that's pretty much evil in itself. A mass majority of those Angels weren't going to go out of their way to do ''you'' any harm unless you did something REALLY bad to piss them off - like say, [[Fail|declaring yourself the arbiter of balance and deigning to attack '''''celestial beings''''' for not doing so the way ''you'' wanted.

Anyone demonstrating the willingness to even consider this angle is basically Neutral Evil with a wig on, because not only is such an act blatantly evil, there's few ways to make it anything other than destructively self-serving besides some Mr. Fantastic-tier mental gymnastics. On a similar note: players who kick a puppy just to counter-balance their "good mojo" and force themselves back to neutrality are Chaotic plain and simple and can just fuck off.

It's pretty well established that sparing the bad guy makes you the either the good guy or the lawful guy (or both), but ''don't even think'' about arguing about saving the BBEG's lieutenant or son or whatever, so that the threat of their possible return will keep the forces of Good on their toes in future and not become incompetent from having nothing to fight! In this situation you're committing an evil act by rescuing someone that you <u>intend</u> to go on and hurt people in the future and give the forces of good something to fight against, or you're committing an act of good that's so convoluted that it falls squarely into the realm of [[Stupid Good]]. Either way, if you have to plan years in advance for something that doesn't directly affect you, chances are it's not a Neutral action. The best case scenario in this situation is to walk away - but that's hardly "actively" promoting neutrality now, isn't it?

Basically, what we're saying is that trying to hardline True Neutral alignment in the above manners ''without'' completely and utterly fucking up the entire campaign would require one to be either:

#An actual animal who has no understanding of morality or law whatsoever, or
#A person who has no actual grasp of either.
#Someone who spends their life having no impact on anyone or anything whatsoever.

===Non-Stupid Neutral===
A true neutral character without stupidity is possible, of course. Some examples include a character motivated by enlightened self-interest ("I will save the world because I live here and keep my stuff here"); a character who is playing the angles ("The world is full of powerful factions and I would rather work with the slavers and crusaders than try and overthrow them"); a character motivated by an art or science ("I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was"); or simply a character with multiple motives, good and evil, that roughly balance out to neutral.
Some people prefer non-stupid Neutral to be "evil is bad and all, but I can't be bothered to do anything much about it." This can be VERY stupid for a PC, however. A PC is a miserable bundle of drama and heroics, it wouldn't do for them not to give even the slightest care.

Normal people, however, are often neutral - it's not that they don't care per say, it's more that they want what's best for themselves and those closest to them, and don't really care what provides that safety, good or bad. They care, just not about philosophy and the grand scale of things. In psychology terms, neutral people have their hands full with surviving and, as long as those ends aren't met, they can't be but ''so'' bothered with lofty ideals.

==Examples==
*'''[[Ao]]''' from the [[Forgotten Realms]] probably fits the bill, since he sits back and eats hot pockets all day, not bothering about anything in the multiverse, whether gods are killing each other or not - only stepping in when the universe stops working properly and fixing it like a cosmic janitor with infinite power (and he doesn't even get paid!).
* [[Advanced Dungeons & Dragons]] actively describes True Neutral in Stupid Neutral of the "actively sabotages good, evil, law and chaos when they get too powerful" terms.
* [[Mordenkainen]] (basically the [[Greyhawk]] equivalent of [[Elminster]]) actually lives by the Stupid Neutral creedo of "Good, Evil, Law and Chaos are ''all'' dangerous if they are allowed to get too strong, so the best I can do for the world is keep them balanced". He runs a secret society dedicated to fucking shit over for whoever or whatever he thinks is being too successful and "threatening the Balance". Perhaps fittingly, he's an Abjurer and his legacy spells all relate to wrecking magic - the buffs-eating Mordenkainen's Warding Whip, or the magic item-killing Mordenkainen's Disjunction. He does try to justify this position as Angels would consider [[lawful Stupid|Neutrality as the next great evil]] without contrasting extremes, and everyone knows why a law or chaos victory would suck. It's not that convincing. Notably, he is actually listed as being ''Chaotic'' Neutral in alignment in his most recent appearances in 5e, implying that his overzealous dedication to neutrality ironically makes him not actually neutral anymore.
* Played for laughs in [[Futurama RPG|Futurama]] with the Neutrals, a race of humanoid aliens whose gimmick is that they act [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ussCHoQttyQ as neutral as possible]. Hell, their motto is literally ''Live Free or Don't'', and they'd likely shrug either way.
* Kino from the [[anime]] ''Kino no Tabi'' has been accused of this by some detractors. Without [[Skub|going too deep into it]] and creating a wall text explaining every point on this, let's explore a single moment from the show which is widely considered a moment of Stupid Neutrality: Kino has just left a country which thinks the apocalypse is coming because their book of prophecies [[Lawful Stupid|has told them so]]. When that doesn't happen, a priest tells that the apocalypse has been postponed by 30 years. She them arrives at another country, where she finds that a poet was commissioned by the king to write a sad poem, and did so only after his wife committed suicide. Years later, after the poet died, society arranges for a young girl to recite the [[VTNL|cryptic and extremely long]] sad poem every day. As Kino leaves, the border officer tells her that the poem was written down and a nearby country acquired it, [[Just as planned|calling it the Book of Prophesy]]. After that, while camped overnight under the stars, Kino is interrupted by an army from the Land of Prophecies invading the Sad Land. When she asks why, a soldier responds that a new interpretation of the Book of Prophesy indicated that the next country [[derp|is responsible for their world coming to an end]]. Now here's where Kino's neutrality is called into question, she knows that the country which has The Book of Prophecies acquired the poem in a accident and now think it's some kind of cryptic prophecy to the end of the world when it's actually just the [[edgy]] ramblings of a sad man, and instead of telling that to the soldiers she just quietly watches as they march to the sad country and probably go on to [[Exterminatus|exterminate everyone]] in there over a simple mistake. Even if she didn't manage to convince them, it would have cost her literally nothing to try explain the true nature of the book and the "prophecy" inside it. Because of her neutrality and refusal to take ANY action, including giving logical statements outside of self-defense, she [[Grimdark|basically condemned a country to death]] even as [[Derp|she feels bad for their situation]].

[[Category:Dungeons & Dragons]][[Category:Alignment]][[Category:Stupid Alignments]]