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Female Space Marines

2018-10-22T07:54:51Z

2600:1700:BF90:B950:75CE:BB1F:9F44:62ED: /* What if I still unironically want this? */

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{{topquote|The Adeptus Astartes can only contain males. No girls allowed. They are yucky.|[[If The Emperor Had a Text-To-Speech Device|The Emperor of Mankind]]}}
[[Image:beakiegal.jpg|thumb|right|Guaranteed to garner at least 100 replies. Also not enough pauldron.]]

There is no tactic more effective for [[RAGE|enraging]] a diehard [[Space Marines|SPESS MEHREENS]] fanboy than discussing/drawing their [[Rule 63]] companion, '''Female Space Marines'''. Not to be confused with [[Sisters of Battle]], the canonical equivalent to Space Marines and also armed with bolters and chainswords, but ''Space Marine'' Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes, you know, the hypermuscular ones with [[Pauldrons]]. According to [[Games Workshop]] [[canon]], the procedures that are used to create a Space Marine only work properly on male subjects, rendering female Marines impossible; however, masturbators on the internet have not allowed this to deter them. Sometimes it is pointed out that back in the [[Rogue Trader]] days, Games Workshop did briefly produce two power-armoured female models, but they were changed to "Female Adventurers in Power Armour" and were never meant to represent female Marines. Moreover, White Dwarf ''did'' in fact publish a Rogue Trader scenario back in the day featuring real, honest-to-[[Matt Ward|Ward]] female Imperial Space Marines, albeit with the caveat that such chapters were exceedingly rare. Considering this is from Games Workshop, who [[Squats|routinely violates their own canon in subsequent editions]], fanbase be damned, take this as you will.

It's worth noting, though, that Games Workshop hasn't deterred /tg/ (or indeed, the [[Black Library]] writers) from coming up with ways to potentially allow for them, even with Space Marines being exclusively male being one of the rare things they've kept consistent. This is because, as was brought up in [[Daemonette|previous]] [[Monstergirls|articles]], little gets between a man and his fapbait.

=The Canon Part=
While for a time GW's official stance was that it was impossible to create Female Space Marines, leading to spammed complaints about gender equality and claims  that male-only Space Marines are sexist. Therefore, a minor concession was made. According to new [[fluff]] the Emperor of Mankind ''did'' see fit to attempt the creation of female Space Marines, whether in the spirit of equality, for the sake of a larger recruiting pool, or [[/d/|because he had an incest fetish to indulge.]] Emphasis on ''tried''; since he had based his Sons off of himself, and then Space Marines off of the resulting genes, it was impossible to twist that base around to reliably make a female Space Marine. The Emperor tried again and again, but could not find a way to reliably create a Female Space Marine in a reasonable time frame and soon found that if Male Space Marines were one in a million, then Female Space Marines were one in a trillion. There were many semi-successful female Space Marines that showed promise, but nearly all of them died shortly after implantation due to organ rejection and various hormonal imbalances causing their biology to shit itself. Quickly realizing that this shit was a waste of time and resources better spent conquering the galaxy, he decreed that Space Marines would be male-only, '''NO GIRLS ALLOWED.'''

TL;DR GW got tired of angry letters so they said that Female Space Marines were possible but stupidly impractical (even by 40k standards) so that's why there aren't any Female Space Marines so stop the angry letters please.

This all could have been avoided if the complainants had simply asked for (and GW gave) more focus on the [[Sisters of Battle|''real'', pre-existing Female Space Marines]] complete with a unique, empowering flavor all their own. [[Fail|Naturally, this seemingly obvious solution was lost on all parties involved.]]

On the Black Library front, it was mentioned in one of the [[Horus Heresy]] books that [[Malcador the Sigillite]] had suggested making one or two of the Primarchs female, half-jokingly saying that it might help to defuse competition between them. The Emperor was not amused by this at all and insisted that it simply couldn't be done, thinking Malcador was joking. And really, who wants to try to argue with him about it?

==[[Sindri|SSSSSIIIIIINNNNNNDDDDRRRRRRIIIII!!]]==

Unexpected salvation - there are indeed (99.46% possible) Female Space Marines!...in The [[Eye Of Terror]]. Well, they're possible out of it too - see, due to the nature of [[Chaos]], mutations are often a fact of life. Some desired, some not. What if one hulked out, burning, warped Chaos Space Marine [[Moot|secretly wishes he was the cute little girl who got flowers? Who smiled with joy? Who was so sweet?]]

What if his gods are listening? If the nature of Chaos is what it is to any extent, there is a chance his deity will bestow him with what he has always wanted. Though of course, he could just as easily get an extra tentacle arm, or get mutated into [[Chaos Spawn|that which must never be named]] - such is the nature of Chaos. [[Slaanesh]] especially grants this as a matter of routine, and its a safe bet to make that quite a lot of the [[Emperor's Children]] men are actually now women. or just as likely [[Dickgirl|dickgirls.]] Or reverse-dickgirls ("Cuntboys"). Such is the will of Slaanesh.

This was ''confirmed'' in one of the earlier Chapter Approved articles - one that re-introduced mounted [[Daemonette|Daemonettes]] - in which a Governor-Militant fighting a Slaanesh warband mused that there were (apparently female) creatures that [[Heresy|were once Space Marines, but no longer]]. Considering Chaos can cause [[Chaos Spawn|that which must never be named]], is anyone surprised by this?

==[[Honsou]], You Sick Fuck==

We know that you among the fans, despite all our attempts to dissuade you, want cute FEMALE SPHESS MAHREENS! And there is good news - technically, there ARE Female Space Marines IN OFFICIAL LORE. The catch? Yes there is a catch. And this one is the worst.

Your new waifu is a bloated, twisted, undying, insane, mutated pregnant mother-slave only alive because she's in the Eye of Terror.

You see, [[Honsou]] of the [[Iron Warriors]], in an effort to squeeze new MAHREENS into the ranks without having to pay that other sick fuck [[Fabius Bile]] for clones and because he was too lazy to do it the normal way, created a system of hideousness and sadness that pushes [[grimdark]] to a whole new level. He invented the [[Daemonculaba]], a system whereby a woman is chained and fed stuff which will morph her and her womb into something that was never meant to be. A boy is then (yes, a child), jammed, shoved or cut INTO the vagina and stays there for a while. When his time is ready, he, now XBAWKS HUEG and STRONG, will have to [[rip and tear|rip, tear]], or otherwise push his way out of his adoptive mother's womb/vagina. When he emerges, he will either be a skinless mutant abomination, or will emerge as a fully functional (albeit skinless) Chaos Space Marine in a fraction of the time, with all his growth stages and bionics and gene-seed already taken care of. How? [[Meme|It's fucking science]].

This goes back to our Female Space Marine - you see, while she was being morphed and changed, [[Dark Mechanicus]] Biologis hereteks worked on her body, implanting gene-seed and making her physically a Female Space Marine, even if the form is rather off. Thus, her womb can turn children as well into Space Marines by having her womb 'grow' the required organs and stages directly into their bodies in a fraction of the time - days and weeks instead of years. Thankfully for the entire universe, this horror was [[Uriel Ventris|destroyed]] before Honsou realized he could stick girls in there as well, and get double the recruits, and stumble upon the secret to true Female Space Marines.

==A Slightly More Reasonable Answer==

The problem really is one of terminology. Women can wear power armour, certainly; the Sororitas practically make it formal wear. Women can, through steroids, incessant bodybuilding, a high protein diet, and a little genetic modding to bring it all together, be as buff and rocking as a Space Marine. Pointlessly expensive and inefficient compared to grabbing a guy and shoving a growth hormone in him. But what really makes a Space Marine a Space Marine is all of the [[Geneseed|extra genetically-engineered organs and DNA and whatnot]] cloned from the Primarchs and implanted in the right way, which is impossible for women for reasons the Emperor himself ran afoul of. The closest thing to an exception in the fluff is any experiment involving [[Fabius Bile]] (the crazy old fuck basically cloned himself but then decided to make the clone female and have a [[Warhammer High|'daughter']] just for the [[lulz]]. And the best/worst part, he still made a better job out of parenthood than Big.E.), unless the topic is [[Daemonculaba|Honsou of the Iron Warriors]] (not reincarnation) inside a bloated woman's uterus, and it should be noted that the said woman is effectively lobotomized (and even there, the potential Chaos Space Marine candidate must be male since even that sick thing requires gene-seed to 'work'). And even if he did make you a female space marine for reals, she still wouldn't be a space marine, just a weird, mutilated, chaos infused thing that approximates a space marine but [[Ultramarines|can never truly be one.]]

Worth noting, however, that given that Bile's experimented on damn-near everything (including the entire civilian populations of several planets) at some point or another for his attempts to duplicate the methods for creating new Space Marines, there's ample evidence to suggest that [[/d/|he's tried it at least once]], ''going as far as saying Big.E. was an idiot for making gene-seed only compatible with men and thus cutting off half the potential supply of warriors''. Fucking [[Slaanesh]].

Another possible reason is that all of the Primarchs are men, with male genes, thus meaning that, [[Samus|unless there's secretly a girl Primarch out there somewhere,]] female Space Marines cannot be made in the traditional sense. Space Marine blood alone can eat through many durable materials due to the mess of chemicals in them. Any attempt to breed Space Marines the traditional way would be almost guaranteed to fail in a tragic fashion.

Of note is the fact that despite the names and histories of the two missing Primarchs being utterly obliterated from Imperial records, they are still unambiguously referred to as sons of the Emperor.

==Dark Imperium and FemMarines==
[[Image:YouHaven'tMadeFemaleSpaceMarinesHaveYou.jpg|thumb|right|The Emperor's reaction to [[Primaris Marines]]]]
In the Dark Imperium novel, its revealed that the [[God-Emperor|Emperor]] never cared for the [[Space Marines]](According to Gulliman, anyway), and saw them as little more than tools to secure his [[Imperium of Man|empire]]. [[Ultramar|He never intended for them to rule over it]], as it was planned to be an empire [[High Lords of Terra|ruled by humans for humans]]. Given this revelation, its possible that the Emperor ''could've'' made female space marines, but chose not to because he wanted a reliable way to keep their population in check. Keep in mind that [[Belisarius Cawl|very few people outside of the Emperor himself]] were actually involved in the [[Primarch]] Project, so if he chose to lie about the gender thing, very few could call him out on it (and that's assuming any of them would want to). Also note that although he was adamant that FemMarines were impossible, no one actually tried to prove him wrong, they mostly just took him at his word. It is also simply far quicker and more efficient to implant recruits. Plus the changes needed to create a female Space Marine, given the large physical abilities differences between men and women, would be extreme, with an immense fatality rate, and expensive. You could make ten male and female Space Marines or thirty male Space Marines in half the time. The right choice is obvious. Besides, after the changes to put the women on par with the men Marines, the only real difference left would be genetalia, so the extra expense and risk would be pointless in the end. Sure, the fem Marines would only need to outclass the enemies of the Crusade so full body alteration wouldn’t be necessary. But, the male Marines frequently suffered heavy, sometimes dramatic casualties. Leas durable, less strong female Marines added would mostly increase the body count. Not to mention the incredible risk of enemies getting DNA of both Marine types and making their own in their labs. Besides, Emps had Chaos to consider.

Although Space Marines have their sex drive curbed or removed, we know that [[Space Wolves]] can still sleep around (especially true for [[Lukas the Trickster]]), to say nothing of the [[Emperor's Children]], who are explicitly described going on a [[RAPE|rape rampage]] during the [[Siege of Terra]], which likely means that the reproductive suppression isn't 100% effective or irreversible, though the latter example does carry a load of salt big enough to fill a Blackstone Fortress in that they worship Slaanesh. It should also be considered that although Space Marines have a reduced or eliminated sex drive, it's never been suggested that they're sterile, meaning that [[Fall of the Eldar|accidents could still happen]]. Space Marine sex drive also seems to be born more out of culture than anything actually biological, most marines consider themselves too busy to get sexually or romantically attached to other people and are "married to the job". However the Space Wolves, having a rowdy and raunchy chapter culture where picking up chicks is a sign of manly strength and a source of tales to laugh about at the mess hall don't see any problem with their brothers spending their free time having "fun" with the local women.

Given all this, it's possible that the Emperor didn't want to take any chances and potentially have his living weapons start reproducing and becoming self-sufficient, replacing the humans they were designed to protect. Keeping Space Marines mono-gendered and reliant on [[geneseed]] would ensure that he maintained tight control over his tools and how many there were at any given time. Of course, this is all speculation, so take it with a grain of salt. Keep in mind, Implants are not heritable, this is basic biology. Unless the Astartes-to-be DNA is altered, which once again would mean Female Astartes should be possible. Even then the theoretical baby astartes wouldn't get the implanted organs, meaning probable miscarriage.

==On The To-Do List?==
There is a paragraph in "Ashes of Prospero" were Arjac Rockfist identifies him self as a "Son as Russ", and a woman with a spear asks "Only sons?" Arjac thinks on it, and realizes that the spirit of Fenris, and of the Space Wolves, is in all the people of Fenris, men, women and children. Then he considers that Guilliman had made an even more deadly and powerful version of a Space Marine, so it was possible. At the end he pointedly does not reject the possibility of women space marines, ending with a "Perhaps."

Whether or not this is a case of fandom baiting/trolling, lampshade hanging, or just leaving space for '[[Your Dudes|Your Dude(tte)'s]]' is debatable, the fact that this happened among the [[Viking]]-themed Space Wolves is interesting given the Valkyrie and Shield Maiden connotations that go along with that theme. Additionally the wolves took a beating from the Thousand Sons, so increasing the recruiting pool would be a boon to the beleaguered Wolves. If female marines were going to be suddenly created, it happening to the Space Wolves would not be thematically out of the question the way it would be for other more monk like space marine chapters. This being said, Fenrisian Shield Maidens were mentioned as having fought in Wrath of Magnus, so it's also possible that the Space Wolves will stop being a Marines-exclusive force and start incorporating the native warriors of Fenris, though that would be a blatant case of legion building that would draw the attention of the already inclined to look disagreeable on them Inquisition.

=What Would A Female Space Marine Look Like If They Could Exist?=
[[File:Silver Skull.jpg|right|thumb|Tina likes long walks on the beach and slaying the Emperor's foes.]]
Obviously, in the land of Rule 63 they are amazingly hot [[Rape|(and would totally do]] [[Mary Sue| you)]], but in dark and gritty fluff-land where they would be optimised for combat rather than jacking off, they would probably have very few notable female features left following surgery and genetic fuckery. Marines are made from pre-adolescent kids who still have very little in terms of sexual dimorphism, and the process of transforming includes total rewriting of the hormonal system (which is responsible for developing secondary sexual characteristics).

Hypothetical femarine wouldn't have narrow shoulders, wide hips, (big) breasts, delicate face structures (though the blood angels often manage it), feminine voices or even traditional feminine character traits like higher capacity for empathy and increased aversion against danger as those two psychological traits are pretty easily conditioned in or out of people if you can control their social contacts. And unless you're one of the nice chapters like the Salamanders, Lamenters, or Celestial Lions; empathy is almost certainly going to be trained out of most recruits to make them better able to deal with the kind of guilt that killing other people inflicts on humans. If you don't think that's a big concern, note that this is the kind of guilt that notably caused [[Avitus]] to fall to [[heresy]] when the truth about his chapter master made it his old excuses of it being justified as the chapter being in the right invalid and found himself unable to live with his actions. An entire Chapter of Marines in service to the inquisition who purged civilians who knew too much was also driven insane by the guilt because they simply cared too much for other people. Too much humanity can and will drive space marines to madness over the course of their duties.

In essence neophyte does not mature into man or woman - it matures into '''marine'''. A female Space Marine would only differ from male Space Marine by having different genitalia, so no "Samus is a girl" moments would really occur if a female Space Marine had her helmet knocked off and shocked her comrades by revealing some beautiful feminine hair and facial features. Then again, space marines themselves break several biological laws just by existing so we could be wrong. Either way, Female Space Marines are not going to be conventionally attractive. Being recreated exclusively for war tends to do that. They would be bigger than an ordinary human, of course, but they would still be proportioned like a normal human. Or like some bikini model if the Emperor decided he wanted to make hot White Scar bikers or something.

It is worth noting that official art from GW shows that unarmoured space marines look pretty normal if tall and swole discounting all the plug holes in them; like Captain America if he were a head or two taller rather than blob like roid freaks. Which does make sense, as the hulking bodybuilder physique is actually not very good in a fight compared to the more lithe MMA fighter build or the kind of fat looking powerlifter bod and in the military, endurance and leg power matters far more than how big your gains are. It's also worth noting that the sons of Sanguinius in particular are generally handsome in an androgynous, angelic way and that most of the primarchs aren't half bad looking. The Alpha Legion and the Fallen are also able to pass off as normal if tall and buff humans without their power armour. Also worth noting is that many, many marines are somehow able to have long, flowing hair or beards (or both) and still fit helmets onto their heads without issue with what can only be explained by space marine helmets doubling as pocket dimensions.

As Space Marines are surgically altered with organic implants and not traditionally genetically modified, progenoid glands would still play a vital role in gene-seed replication and any child a female space marine would have would at most just be guaranteed to be at least somewhat compatible with the chapter's gene seed. All the extra organs that go into a space marine are lab grown things stuck into them that they're genetically compatible with no more inherently part of the body than a prosthetic arm, and it's very unlikely that they would develop on their own in a space marine's child. Knowing Lukas the Trickster's "hey babe, I'm a space marine, wanna see the inside of my land raider?" antics though, it's probable that unless trained to suppress it, they'll still have a sex drive.

And, assuming that Sister Generica can be considered attractive in any form, she's also wearing a ton or two of ceramite power armor, so you wouldn't tell until she speaks or removes her helmet. And even if she does, you'd have to be a very lucky man to catch her eye during her limited free time, and she'd need to be from a chapter where fraternising with normal humans is acceptable.

Finally, God Emperor help you if you suggest they wear boob plate.

=RAGE=

RAGE is generated by this tactic in two distinct ways; either the neckbeards assume that the creator of the work in question is unaware of the Space Marine fluff, and rage about his or her ignorance; failing that, it becomes clear that they are well aware of the fluff regarding these matters and willingly chose to disregard it, sending the poor neckbeards into fits of spastic rage that anyone would dare deliberately defile the sacrosanct canon of Games Workshop's masterpiece.

[[Troll|Still, the aforementioned creator will just ignore him.]]

Alternatively, call your all-female IG army converted to be [[Imperial Navy]] armswomen "custom female space marines" for a joke the guys at the game store will find funny once and infuriating forever after.

=What if I still unironically want this?=

Then it's time to apply some of [[Your dudes]]. GeeDubs has been downplaying Your dudes more and more in the marketing, especially going into 8th edition, but they still secretly love it and never want us to stop applying our stories and color schemes to their precious and expensive models.

As mentioned before, you could always invoke the two lost Space Marine primarchs and say their gene seed works in females. Maybe a successor chapter somewhere down the line got a mutation and now they need to recruit young girls instead of young boys. Maybe an incredibly eccentric [[Adeptus Mechanicus|Magos biologis]] found the bio-augmentations that turns adults into near-Space Marines (the kind [[Luther]] and [[Kor Phaeron]] used), wound up with a spare shipment of Astartes power armor, and decided he wanted Skitarii shaped like Female Space Marines. The possibilities are endless. Not all of them are ''good'' but what matters is that you tried.

=Writefaggery=

===A New Arrival===

* From the livelog of Inquisitor Perstringos, archive #32AA9-99
* Redacted copy dispatched to Magos Tzeel'Etil of Mars under code of practice 73-Greyfax-Cawl

The lifespan of an Inquisitorial liaison to the Angry Marines is a famously short one.

Take offence to their unorthodox methods, and you're likely to get your head exploded like an overripe melon. Partake too enthusiastically in their furious idiom and you're likely to get your head exploded like an overripe melon. Stand too near one when they're feeling a little more umbrage than usual and you're likely to... and so on.

I have lasted in the role for nearly seven Angermar months and so consider myself quite the survivor. Alas, my run of good luck may soon be at an end. The Angry Marines are not generally characterised by a cheerful acceptance of change...

especially changes imposed from without...

very particularly especially changes to their unit composition mandated by none other than the Ultramarines, whose very Codex Astartes (oh Guilliman Restored, forgive me!) I have been impelled to use as an item of intimate personal hygiene in the Angry Marines' commode.

And yet today the first company of Primaris Marrnes will be arriving on McRage to join their new battle brothers. The "Guillimarines", as I've heard them called around the barracks here from the day I arrived. The Ultra-Ultrasmurfs. The Fuck-knuckles. The Bitch-clone-fucking-sellout Poser Marines.

Such a momentous occasion will naturally require an Inquisitorial observer on site.

I am going to fucking die.

Which is why I am taking care to record this surreptitious livelog, tapped by my tongue against my molar-transcriptor as I take my place in the Rite of Welcome. My life is nothing, praise the Emperor. Direct observational feedback on the reception of our Imperium's newest super-Astartes into the Chapter deemed least likely to accept them will be invaluable to several parties.

They are docking now with our Battle Barge, the FUCKYOUNAMEITYOURSELF. Their vessel, officially the Undaunted but renamed in our local records "THE OFFICIOUS CUNT-BASKET", is busy initiating standard pre-docking handshake protocol, but I expect that...

yep, there it is. The Angry Marines have taken the simple expedient of ramming the FUCKYOU directly into the Undaunted's docking bay. It was a fair hit. Air is already cycling across both ships with only superficial loss to the void, it won't take long to clear the wreckage, and so the joining Rite is soon to begin.

A mere ten paces in front of me, well within explode-my-head-with-a-backslap range, stands Chapter Master Temperus Maximum himself. An AdMech representative, Magos Errant Gjarran 3FF stands some ways to my left. I am sure I sense fear in the writhing of its mechadendrites.

Two long lines of Angry Marines, each four long files of seven hundred ranks, stretch out behind us in a widening wedge, as though to flaunt the Codex Astartes prohibition on companies larger than a thousand. Aside from their numbers and their angry yellow banners, the most striking sight to one accustomed to other Astartes chapters is the conspicuous lack of bolt pistols in favour of a second chainsword or the heaviest of heavy weapons.

I also note that customary Space Marine practice is to greet newcomers with weapons RAISED, not brandished threateningly -- and thus also pointed directly at my back.

On either side of these lines there mills a mob of chapter serfs, aspirants, servitors and ordinary ship's crew. Banners burn with the emblematic angry face and raised yellow middle finger.

I now hear the stomp of boots but haven't caught sight of the 100 who will be the first in history to join the Angry Marines from outside their chapter. Having already written off my own life, I find myself idly wondering if anyone has warned them of what they will encounter. We went through sixteen liaisons in as many weeks before we started to get the hang of their red lines. How many of these "Primadonna Marines" will survive the year?

Ah, there they are. They march in a column five across, twenty files deep. I see the first file now...

I had heard that these new marines were taller but the effect is staggering. Every Space Marine inspires terrified awe with their size, their power, and above all their devotion to the Emperor. These new Primaris radiate the same majesty... perhaps it is as they humbly claim, that they are no better than their other battle brothers, but they are certainly... newer.

As my eyes take in the holy might of the Emperor's newest instruments, my trained Inquisitor's eye perceives what at first was a vague impression. The specifications of these marines' armor, while taller and sleeker than earlier models, are in fact even sleeker than the schematics of the Mark X Tacticus Armour I have memorised as a matter of course.

How strange. Thinner in the waist. Wider at the hips. Bulkier at the chest... at the bust!

Subtle as the difference is, certainly not detracting from their power and terror, their armour is unquestionably FEMALE.

How?

Before anyone speaks the center Primaris of their first file--surely their Lieutenant--is removing his helmet... HER helmet. By the Emperor! As strong and intimidating and, well, grizzled a face as any Space Marine's, and yet entirely feminine. Long luxurious red hair is cascading down her shoulders... by the Emperor, to live to see these days!

No word yet from the Angry Marines. I fear the worst. I'm enabling my audio pickup; it may well outlive me.

[Lieutenant Pedicaba]: WELL FUCK ME IT'S THE MUTE MARINES! HELLO THE FUCK TO YOU TOO, ASSHOLE!

[Assault Sergeant Dickface, interrupting]: OH NO NO FUCKING NO. NUH-UH. FUCK OFF. CHADMARINES ARE BAD ENOUGH BUT A STACY? GIRLYMAN AIN'T GONNA SHOEHORN SOME BOLTER BITCHES INTO OUR YEEEAAAARGH!!!

[Lieutenant Pedicaba]: WHOOPS DID I JUST "SHOEHORN" MY FOOT UP YOUR ASS? YOU CAN EAT YOUR OWN SHIT OFF MY BOOT LATER, SERGEANT. DO I LOOK TO LIKE I'M ARMED WITH SOME PUSSIFIED BOLTER?

[Chapter Master Tempestum]: WELL FUCKING ARSECHUNKS IF THIS ISN'T A CUNTY TURN OF EVENTS. I'VE SAID FOR MONTHS YOU NU-SMURFS HAVE NO BALLS AND WHADDYA KNOW.

[Lieutenant Pedicaba]: YEAH YOU CAN KISS MY TURGID OVARIES LATER FUCKLICK. LIEUTENANT PEDICABA REPORTING! BY THE EMPEROR'S SWEATY ASSCRACK WE HAVE ARRIVED THROUGH THE WARP INTACT, ONLY ONE LITTLE FUCKSLEAZE DAEMON INCURSION NEEDED ITS SHIT PUSHED IN. ONE HUNDRED NEW ANGRY MARINES ARE YOURS TO COMMAND, MY LORD CHAPTER MASTER!

(Oh Emperor protect us, they're all removing their helmets. Blonde hair, black hair, more redheads... if it weren't for their size you'd know they weren't Sisters of Battle by their color. And their language!)

[Chapter Master Tempestum]: HEY COGBITCH, YOU SURE THOSE FAGNUTS FROM MARS SENT THE RIGHT DELiVERY?

[Magos Gjarran]: All is in order, lord Chapter Master. These are indeed the Primaris Marines assigned by my masters to your most holy Chapter, uncorrupted by the Warp and in perfect genetic order. The Machine God smiles upon your union.

[Chapter Master Tempestum]: AND YOUR ARCH-ANUS FAGMASTERS DIDN'T SEE FIT TO MENTION THEY COME WITH A CUNT APIECE?

[Lieutenant Pedicaba]: YOU WANT "A PIECE" OF CUNT JUST FUCK YOUR OWN WHORE MOUTH, MY LORD.

[Chapter Serf Urguet Incelium, interrupting]: No!! Stop!! Please!! I can't bear it!

(Has this serf lost his mind! What is he doing?)

[Chapter Serf Urguet Incelium]: My lords, this cannot be! Kill me if you will, but we cannot have fucking WOMEN ruining EVERYTHING! It's all a trick by... by SLAANESH JUSTICE WARRIORS to force the evil of HEResy upon us. A trick! The holy gene-seed can't work on females! Blah!

(The Primaris nearest the serf has just spat on him. Looks like she got him right in the crotch.)

[Chapter Serf Urguet Incelium]: You stupid bitch! I'll fucking end you! I'll take a flamer to all the vapid whores in the Progenium! I'll...

[a distinct sizzling noise is audible]

[Interceptor Miserabila]: GUESS MY BETCHER'S GLAND WORKS AFTER ALL, HUH ASS-BADGER?

[Chapter Serf Urguet Incelium]: My DICK! Oh FUCK, OH EMPEROR! MY BALLS! MY BALLS ARE MELTING AWAY! AHHH!

[Lieutenant Pedicaba]: "BETCHER" WEREN'T USING THOSE ANYWAY, PANSY-ASS QUEEFSNIFF.

[Chapter Serf Urguet Incelium]: [voice dissolves into screams and groans]

[Chapter Master Tempestum]: HEH HEH, YOU'RE ALL RIGHT. MAYBE YOU REDRAGE WHORES WON'T EMBARRASS THE REAL SOLDIERS TOO MUCH AFTER ALL. TELL YOU WHAT, LET'S WIPE OUT THE ASSCHEESE HERETICS PLANETSIDE AND I'LL LET YOU FIX ME A SANDWICH.

[Lieutenant Pedicaba]: SAY THAT TO MY HAIRY PUSS, MY LORD CHAPTER MASTER PISS-BREATH. NOW ARE YOU GONNA FIND US SOME HERESY TO MURDER OR ARE YOU GOING TO STAND THERE ALL DAY LIKE YOU'RE SCARED OF A LADY?

[Chapter Master Tempestum]: WE MAKE PLANETFALL IN TWENTY MINUTES. WELCOME TO THE ANGRY MARINES... BATTLE BROTHER.

[Lieutenant Pedicaba]: YEAH, SLURP SHIT SISTER.

Audio pick-up disabled. I think that was the ceremony. The Angry Marines, Primaris and all, are exchanging soldierly embraces and head-butts and marching back to the barge, chanting as one, "ALWAYS ANGRY! ALL THE TIME! ALWAYS ANGRY! ALL THE TIME!"

I'm racing down the corridor with Magos Giarran as fast as my legs will take me. You just know they're going to perform an "expedited undocking" with fucking frag grenades. Again. Planetfall in seventeen minutes. If I'm somehow not rendered into inquisitor-flavoured jello... well, I'm already praising the Emperor's unlimited munificence that I'm alive at all.

Word must get back to Mars. If the Primera mix so well even with the Angry Marines, they'll be a valuable reinforcement to all our companies. In our darkest hour, the Imperium's new hopes redouble.

+++
Thought for the Day: The Emperor has fury enough for us all.
+++

=See Also=

*[[Golden Aquilas]]: /tg/ homebrew chapter, designed to cause as much RAEG and accusations of derp as possible.
*[[Space Marines]]: Rule 63 equivalent of female Space... wait.
*[[Sisters of Battle]]: The warrior nuns of the Imperium that wear power armor, often fight with bolters and chainswords, and are in a sense the "real female space marines" of Warhammer 40,000.
*[[Stormcast Eternals]], GW's [[Warhammer Fantasy|Fantasy]] Space Marines in [[Age of Sigmar]], which can be any species and gender thanks to their magical origins. At least one Stormcast group was announced to be comprised of men and women and SURPRISE WARHAMMER SHADESPIRE WAS ANNOUNCED AND FEATURES A FEMALE STORMCAST MINIATURE. And the Sacrosanct Chamber added a bunch more.
*[[Samus]]: How about a female Primarch?
*[[Daughters of Terra]] A not-quite Space Marines Female Space Marines chapter.

=Gallery=
<center><gallery>
Image:Sisters of anger2.png|And if you think this is bad, once a month they all gain Frenzy.
Image:1227373581722.gif|Lol. Why u mad tho?
Image:Nidsrape.jpg|Brother-sister Igpay Atinlay boldly distracts the Tyranid foe.
File:Love is a Battlefield by blazbaros.png|An almost perfect example of a female space marine, complete with the typical bulky space marine form.
Image:spessbitch.jpg|Not in fact [[Horo]].
File:Female_warhammer_40k_imperium_model_--_100D0212.jpg|She'd be even scarier if she took off that mask
File:Female_space_marine_warhammer_40k_model_--_Female_Warrior_Gabs.jpg|DYKE OUTTA FUCKING NOWHERE!
File:Female_space_marine_warhammer_40k_model_--_Female_Warrior_Jayne.jpg|Your eyes should start bleeding right about now.
File:Female_space_marine_warhammer_40k_--_Ingunna_Daughter_of_Russ_by_Greymark.jpg|PMS BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!
File:1k heresy.jpg|<s>Not</s> [[Just as planned]]. Now you know why Tzeentch doesn't invite Slaanesh to his birthday parties anymore.
File:Primarchs as teen girls.png| The Emperor made the Primarchs to be the greatest human warriors of all time, but [[Warhammer_High|even they were not immune]] to [[Rule 63]].
File:Femprah_by_Mr-Culexus.jpg|She was not amused by this development.
File:Saber ultra marine.jpg|Don't piss off Mama Smurf. Your genitals will not survive.
File:Chaos saber.jpg|Somehow still less of a failure than the real Abaddon. (Of course! Her arms haven't fallen off!)
File:Belldandy_blood_raveness_for_propertyoflamb_by_elvishprincess25-d9z451u.jpg|Belldandy of the Blood Ravens... Bloody Bell?
File:Propoflambcomm_urd_space_wolf_by_elvishprincess25-db1s3ab.jpg|Urd of the Space Wolves.
File:Skuld_amg_as_wh_iron_hand_by_elvishprincess25-daeba5v.jpg|Skuld of the Iron Hands.
File:The Little Sisters of Purification 1.png| Canon or not, the ideas's been around for a while.
File:The Little Sisters of Purification 2.png| Featuring Jokaero. Yes, there is a scenario.
File:Adepta Mechania Warpsmith (Pre Heresy) 01.png|Because metal tentacle rape That's Why.
File:Ariel Ventris 01.png
</gallery></center>

[[Category:Imperial]][[Category:Space Marines]][[Category:RAGE]]

Female Space Marines

2018-10-22T07:54:35Z

2600:1700:BF90:B950:75CE:BB1F:9F44:62ED:

{{Promotions}}
{{heresy}}
{{cleanup}}
{{topquote|The Adeptus Astartes can only contain males. No girls allowed. They are yucky.|[[If The Emperor Had a Text-To-Speech Device|The Emperor of Mankind]]}}
[[Image:beakiegal.jpg|thumb|right|Guaranteed to garner at least 100 replies. Also not enough pauldron.]]

There is no tactic more effective for [[RAGE|enraging]] a diehard [[Space Marines|SPESS MEHREENS]] fanboy than discussing/drawing their [[Rule 63]] companion, '''Female Space Marines'''. Not to be confused with [[Sisters of Battle]], the canonical equivalent to Space Marines and also armed with bolters and chainswords, but ''Space Marine'' Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes, you know, the hypermuscular ones with [[Pauldrons]]. According to [[Games Workshop]] [[canon]], the procedures that are used to create a Space Marine only work properly on male subjects, rendering female Marines impossible; however, masturbators on the internet have not allowed this to deter them. Sometimes it is pointed out that back in the [[Rogue Trader]] days, Games Workshop did briefly produce two power-armoured female models, but they were changed to "Female Adventurers in Power Armour" and were never meant to represent female Marines. Moreover, White Dwarf ''did'' in fact publish a Rogue Trader scenario back in the day featuring real, honest-to-[[Matt Ward|Ward]] female Imperial Space Marines, albeit with the caveat that such chapters were exceedingly rare. Considering this is from Games Workshop, who [[Squats|routinely violates their own canon in subsequent editions]], fanbase be damned, take this as you will.

It's worth noting, though, that Games Workshop hasn't deterred /tg/ (or indeed, the [[Black Library]] writers) from coming up with ways to potentially allow for them, even with Space Marines being exclusively male being one of the rare things they've kept consistent. This is because, as was brought up in [[Daemonette|previous]] [[Monstergirls|articles]], little gets between a man and his fapbait.

=The Canon Part=
While for a time GW's official stance was that it was impossible to create Female Space Marines, leading to spammed complaints about gender equality and claims  that male-only Space Marines are sexist. Therefore, a minor concession was made. According to new [[fluff]] the Emperor of Mankind ''did'' see fit to attempt the creation of female Space Marines, whether in the spirit of equality, for the sake of a larger recruiting pool, or [[/d/|because he had an incest fetish to indulge.]] Emphasis on ''tried''; since he had based his Sons off of himself, and then Space Marines off of the resulting genes, it was impossible to twist that base around to reliably make a female Space Marine. The Emperor tried again and again, but could not find a way to reliably create a Female Space Marine in a reasonable time frame and soon found that if Male Space Marines were one in a million, then Female Space Marines were one in a trillion. There were many semi-successful female Space Marines that showed promise, but nearly all of them died shortly after implantation due to organ rejection and various hormonal imbalances causing their biology to shit itself. Quickly realizing that this shit was a waste of time and resources better spent conquering the galaxy, he decreed that Space Marines would be male-only, '''NO GIRLS ALLOWED.'''

TL;DR GW got tired of angry letters so they said that Female Space Marines were possible but stupidly impractical (even by 40k standards) so that's why there aren't any Female Space Marines so stop the angry letters please.

This all could have been avoided if the complainants had simply asked for (and GW gave) more focus on the [[Sisters of Battle|''real'', pre-existing Female Space Marines]] complete with a unique, empowering flavor all their own. [[Fail|Naturally, this seemingly obvious solution was lost on all parties involved.]]

On the Black Library front, it was mentioned in one of the [[Horus Heresy]] books that [[Malcador the Sigillite]] had suggested making one or two of the Primarchs female, half-jokingly saying that it might help to defuse competition between them. The Emperor was not amused by this at all and insisted that it simply couldn't be done, thinking Malcador was joking. And really, who wants to try to argue with him about it?

==[[Sindri|SSSSSIIIIIINNNNNNDDDDRRRRRRIIIII!!]]==

Unexpected salvation - there are indeed (99.46% possible) Female Space Marines!...in The [[Eye Of Terror]]. Well, they're possible out of it too - see, due to the nature of [[Chaos]], mutations are often a fact of life. Some desired, some not. What if one hulked out, burning, warped Chaos Space Marine [[Moot|secretly wishes he was the cute little girl who got flowers? Who smiled with joy? Who was so sweet?]]

What if his gods are listening? If the nature of Chaos is what it is to any extent, there is a chance his deity will bestow him with what he has always wanted. Though of course, he could just as easily get an extra tentacle arm, or get mutated into [[Chaos Spawn|that which must never be named]] - such is the nature of Chaos. [[Slaanesh]] especially grants this as a matter of routine, and its a safe bet to make that quite a lot of the [[Emperor's Children]] men are actually now women. or just as likely [[Dickgirl|dickgirls.]] Or reverse-dickgirls ("Cuntboys"). Such is the will of Slaanesh.

This was ''confirmed'' in one of the earlier Chapter Approved articles - one that re-introduced mounted [[Daemonette|Daemonettes]] - in which a Governor-Militant fighting a Slaanesh warband mused that there were (apparently female) creatures that [[Heresy|were once Space Marines, but no longer]]. Considering Chaos can cause [[Chaos Spawn|that which must never be named]], is anyone surprised by this?

==[[Honsou]], You Sick Fuck==

We know that you among the fans, despite all our attempts to dissuade you, want cute FEMALE SPHESS MAHREENS! And there is good news - technically, there ARE Female Space Marines IN OFFICIAL LORE. The catch? Yes there is a catch. And this one is the worst.

Your new waifu is a bloated, twisted, undying, insane, mutated pregnant mother-slave only alive because she's in the Eye of Terror.

You see, [[Honsou]] of the [[Iron Warriors]], in an effort to squeeze new MAHREENS into the ranks without having to pay that other sick fuck [[Fabius Bile]] for clones and because he was too lazy to do it the normal way, created a system of hideousness and sadness that pushes [[grimdark]] to a whole new level. He invented the [[Daemonculaba]], a system whereby a woman is chained and fed stuff which will morph her and her womb into something that was never meant to be. A boy is then (yes, a child), jammed, shoved or cut INTO the vagina and stays there for a while. When his time is ready, he, now XBAWKS HUEG and STRONG, will have to [[rip and tear|rip, tear]], or otherwise push his way out of his adoptive mother's womb/vagina. When he emerges, he will either be a skinless mutant abomination, or will emerge as a fully functional (albeit skinless) Chaos Space Marine in a fraction of the time, with all his growth stages and bionics and gene-seed already taken care of. How? [[Meme|It's fucking science]].

This goes back to our Female Space Marine - you see, while she was being morphed and changed, [[Dark Mechanicus]] Biologis hereteks worked on her body, implanting gene-seed and making her physically a Female Space Marine, even if the form is rather off. Thus, her womb can turn children as well into Space Marines by having her womb 'grow' the required organs and stages directly into their bodies in a fraction of the time - days and weeks instead of years. Thankfully for the entire universe, this horror was [[Uriel Ventris|destroyed]] before Honsou realized he could stick girls in there as well, and get double the recruits, and stumble upon the secret to true Female Space Marines.

==A Slightly More Reasonable Answer==

The problem really is one of terminology. Women can wear power armour, certainly; the Sororitas practically make it formal wear. Women can, through steroids, incessant bodybuilding, a high protein diet, and a little genetic modding to bring it all together, be as buff and rocking as a Space Marine. Pointlessly expensive and inefficient compared to grabbing a guy and shoving a growth hormone in him. But what really makes a Space Marine a Space Marine is all of the [[Geneseed|extra genetically-engineered organs and DNA and whatnot]] cloned from the Primarchs and implanted in the right way, which is impossible for women for reasons the Emperor himself ran afoul of. The closest thing to an exception in the fluff is any experiment involving [[Fabius Bile]] (the crazy old fuck basically cloned himself but then decided to make the clone female and have a [[Warhammer High|'daughter']] just for the [[lulz]]. And the best/worst part, he still made a better job out of parenthood than Big.E.), unless the topic is [[Daemonculaba|Honsou of the Iron Warriors]] (not reincarnation) inside a bloated woman's uterus, and it should be noted that the said woman is effectively lobotomized (and even there, the potential Chaos Space Marine candidate must be male since even that sick thing requires gene-seed to 'work'). And even if he did make you a female space marine for reals, she still wouldn't be a space marine, just a weird, mutilated, chaos infused thing that approximates a space marine but [[Ultramarines|can never truly be one.]]

Worth noting, however, that given that Bile's experimented on damn-near everything (including the entire civilian populations of several planets) at some point or another for his attempts to duplicate the methods for creating new Space Marines, there's ample evidence to suggest that [[/d/|he's tried it at least once]], ''going as far as saying Big.E. was an idiot for making gene-seed only compatible with men and thus cutting off half the potential supply of warriors''. Fucking [[Slaanesh]].

Another possible reason is that all of the Primarchs are men, with male genes, thus meaning that, [[Samus|unless there's secretly a girl Primarch out there somewhere,]] female Space Marines cannot be made in the traditional sense. Space Marine blood alone can eat through many durable materials due to the mess of chemicals in them. Any attempt to breed Space Marines the traditional way would be almost guaranteed to fail in a tragic fashion.

Of note is the fact that despite the names and histories of the two missing Primarchs being utterly obliterated from Imperial records, they are still unambiguously referred to as sons of the Emperor.

==Dark Imperium and FemMarines==
[[Image:YouHaven'tMadeFemaleSpaceMarinesHaveYou.jpg|thumb|right|The Emperor's reaction to [[Primaris Marines]]]]
In the Dark Imperium novel, its revealed that the [[God-Emperor|Emperor]] never cared for the [[Space Marines]](According to Gulliman, anyway), and saw them as little more than tools to secure his [[Imperium of Man|empire]]. [[Ultramar|He never intended for them to rule over it]], as it was planned to be an empire [[High Lords of Terra|ruled by humans for humans]]. Given this revelation, its possible that the Emperor ''could've'' made female space marines, but chose not to because he wanted a reliable way to keep their population in check. Keep in mind that [[Belisarius Cawl|very few people outside of the Emperor himself]] were actually involved in the [[Primarch]] Project, so if he chose to lie about the gender thing, very few could call him out on it (and that's assuming any of them would want to). Also note that although he was adamant that FemMarines were impossible, no one actually tried to prove him wrong, they mostly just took him at his word. It is also simply far quicker and more efficient to implant recruits. Plus the changes needed to create a female Space Marine, given the large physical abilities differences between men and women, would be extreme, with an immense fatality rate, and expensive. You could make ten male and female Space Marines or thirty male Space Marines in half the time. The right choice is obvious. Besides, after the changes to put the women on par with the men Marines, the only real difference left would be genetalia, so the extra expense and risk would be pointless in the end. Sure, the fem Marines would only need to outclass the enemies of the Crusade so full body alteration wouldn’t be necessary. But, the male Marines frequently suffered heavy, sometimes dramatic casualties. Leas durable, less strong female Marines added would mostly increase the body count. Not to mention the incredible risk of enemies getting DNA of both Marine types and making their own in their labs. Besides, Emps had Chaos to consider.

Although Space Marines have their sex drive curbed or removed, we know that [[Space Wolves]] can still sleep around (especially true for [[Lukas the Trickster]]), to say nothing of the [[Emperor's Children]], who are explicitly described going on a [[RAPE|rape rampage]] during the [[Siege of Terra]], which likely means that the reproductive suppression isn't 100% effective or irreversible, though the latter example does carry a load of salt big enough to fill a Blackstone Fortress in that they worship Slaanesh. It should also be considered that although Space Marines have a reduced or eliminated sex drive, it's never been suggested that they're sterile, meaning that [[Fall of the Eldar|accidents could still happen]]. Space Marine sex drive also seems to be born more out of culture than anything actually biological, most marines consider themselves too busy to get sexually or romantically attached to other people and are "married to the job". However the Space Wolves, having a rowdy and raunchy chapter culture where picking up chicks is a sign of manly strength and a source of tales to laugh about at the mess hall don't see any problem with their brothers spending their free time having "fun" with the local women.

Given all this, it's possible that the Emperor didn't want to take any chances and potentially have his living weapons start reproducing and becoming self-sufficient, replacing the humans they were designed to protect. Keeping Space Marines mono-gendered and reliant on [[geneseed]] would ensure that he maintained tight control over his tools and how many there were at any given time. Of course, this is all speculation, so take it with a grain of salt. Keep in mind, Implants are not heritable, this is basic biology. Unless the Astartes-to-be DNA is altered, which once again would mean Female Astartes should be possible. Even then the theoretical baby astartes wouldn't get the implanted organs, meaning probable miscarriage.

==On The To-Do List?==
There is a paragraph in "Ashes of Prospero" were Arjac Rockfist identifies him self as a "Son as Russ", and a woman with a spear asks "Only sons?" Arjac thinks on it, and realizes that the spirit of Fenris, and of the Space Wolves, is in all the people of Fenris, men, women and children. Then he considers that Guilliman had made an even more deadly and powerful version of a Space Marine, so it was possible. At the end he pointedly does not reject the possibility of women space marines, ending with a "Perhaps."

Whether or not this is a case of fandom baiting/trolling, lampshade hanging, or just leaving space for '[[Your Dudes|Your Dude(tte)'s]]' is debatable, the fact that this happened among the [[Viking]]-themed Space Wolves is interesting given the Valkyrie and Shield Maiden connotations that go along with that theme. Additionally the wolves took a beating from the Thousand Sons, so increasing the recruiting pool would be a boon to the beleaguered Wolves. If female marines were going to be suddenly created, it happening to the Space Wolves would not be thematically out of the question the way it would be for other more monk like space marine chapters. This being said, Fenrisian Shield Maidens were mentioned as having fought in Wrath of Magnus, so it's also possible that the Space Wolves will stop being a Marines-exclusive force and start incorporating the native warriors of Fenris, though that would be a blatant case of legion building that would draw the attention of the already inclined to look disagreeable on them Inquisition.

=What Would A Female Space Marine Look Like If They Could Exist?=
[[File:Silver Skull.jpg|right|thumb|Tina likes long walks on the beach and slaying the Emperor's foes.]]
Obviously, in the land of Rule 63 they are amazingly hot [[Rape|(and would totally do]] [[Mary Sue| you)]], but in dark and gritty fluff-land where they would be optimised for combat rather than jacking off, they would probably have very few notable female features left following surgery and genetic fuckery. Marines are made from pre-adolescent kids who still have very little in terms of sexual dimorphism, and the process of transforming includes total rewriting of the hormonal system (which is responsible for developing secondary sexual characteristics).

Hypothetical femarine wouldn't have narrow shoulders, wide hips, (big) breasts, delicate face structures (though the blood angels often manage it), feminine voices or even traditional feminine character traits like higher capacity for empathy and increased aversion against danger as those two psychological traits are pretty easily conditioned in or out of people if you can control their social contacts. And unless you're one of the nice chapters like the Salamanders, Lamenters, or Celestial Lions; empathy is almost certainly going to be trained out of most recruits to make them better able to deal with the kind of guilt that killing other people inflicts on humans. If you don't think that's a big concern, note that this is the kind of guilt that notably caused [[Avitus]] to fall to [[heresy]] when the truth about his chapter master made it his old excuses of it being justified as the chapter being in the right invalid and found himself unable to live with his actions. An entire Chapter of Marines in service to the inquisition who purged civilians who knew too much was also driven insane by the guilt because they simply cared too much for other people. Too much humanity can and will drive space marines to madness over the course of their duties.

In essence neophyte does not mature into man or woman - it matures into '''marine'''. A female Space Marine would only differ from male Space Marine by having different genitalia, so no "Samus is a girl" moments would really occur if a female Space Marine had her helmet knocked off and shocked her comrades by revealing some beautiful feminine hair and facial features. Then again, space marines themselves break several biological laws just by existing so we could be wrong. Either way, Female Space Marines are not going to be conventionally attractive. Being recreated exclusively for war tends to do that. They would be bigger than an ordinary human, of course, but they would still be proportioned like a normal human. Or like some bikini model if the Emperor decided he wanted to make hot White Scar bikers or something.

It is worth noting that official art from GW shows that unarmoured space marines look pretty normal if tall and swole discounting all the plug holes in them; like Captain America if he were a head or two taller rather than blob like roid freaks. Which does make sense, as the hulking bodybuilder physique is actually not very good in a fight compared to the more lithe MMA fighter build or the kind of fat looking powerlifter bod and in the military, endurance and leg power matters far more than how big your gains are. It's also worth noting that the sons of Sanguinius in particular are generally handsome in an androgynous, angelic way and that most of the primarchs aren't half bad looking. The Alpha Legion and the Fallen are also able to pass off as normal if tall and buff humans without their power armour. Also worth noting is that many, many marines are somehow able to have long, flowing hair or beards (or both) and still fit helmets onto their heads without issue with what can only be explained by space marine helmets doubling as pocket dimensions.

As Space Marines are surgically altered with organic implants and not traditionally genetically modified, progenoid glands would still play a vital role in gene-seed replication and any child a female space marine would have would at most just be guaranteed to be at least somewhat compatible with the chapter's gene seed. All the extra organs that go into a space marine are lab grown things stuck into them that they're genetically compatible with no more inherently part of the body than a prosthetic arm, and it's very unlikely that they would develop on their own in a space marine's child. Knowing Lukas the Trickster's "hey babe, I'm a space marine, wanna see the inside of my land raider?" antics though, it's probable that unless trained to suppress it, they'll still have a sex drive.

And, assuming that Sister Generica can be considered attractive in any form, she's also wearing a ton or two of ceramite power armor, so you wouldn't tell until she speaks or removes her helmet. And even if she does, you'd have to be a very lucky man to catch her eye during her limited free time, and she'd need to be from a chapter where fraternising with normal humans is acceptable.

Finally, God Emperor help you if you suggest they wear boob plate.

=RAGE=

RAGE is generated by this tactic in two distinct ways; either the neckbeards assume that the creator of the work in question is unaware of the Space Marine fluff, and rage about his or her ignorance; failing that, it becomes clear that they are well aware of the fluff regarding these matters and willingly chose to disregard it, sending the poor neckbeards into fits of spastic rage that anyone would dare deliberately defile the sacrosanct canon of Games Workshop's masterpiece.

[[Troll|Still, the aforementioned creator will just ignore him.]]

Alternatively, call your all-female IG army converted to be [[Imperial Navy]] armswomen "custom female space marines" for a joke the guys at the game store will find funny once and infuriating forever after.

=What if I still unironically want this?=

Then it's time to apply some of [[Your dudes]]. GeeDubs has been downplaying Your dudes more and more in the marketing, especially going into 8th edition, but they still secretly love it and never want us to stop applying our stories and color schemes to their precious and expensive models.

As mentioned before, you could always invoke the two lost Space Marine primarchs and say their gene seed works in females. Maybe a successor chapter somewhere down the line got a mutation and now they need to recruit young girls instead of young boys. Maybe an incredibly eccentric [[Adeptus Mechanicus|Magos biologis]] found the bio-augmentations that turns adults into near-Space Marines (the kind [[Luthor]] and [[Kor Phaeron]] used), wound up with a spare shipment of Astartes power armor, and decided he wanted Skitarii shaped like Female Space Marines. The possibilities are endless. Not all of them are ''good'' but what matters is that you tried.

=Writefaggery=

===A New Arrival===

* From the livelog of Inquisitor Perstringos, archive #32AA9-99
* Redacted copy dispatched to Magos Tzeel'Etil of Mars under code of practice 73-Greyfax-Cawl

The lifespan of an Inquisitorial liaison to the Angry Marines is a famously short one.

Take offence to their unorthodox methods, and you're likely to get your head exploded like an overripe melon. Partake too enthusiastically in their furious idiom and you're likely to get your head exploded like an overripe melon. Stand too near one when they're feeling a little more umbrage than usual and you're likely to... and so on.

I have lasted in the role for nearly seven Angermar months and so consider myself quite the survivor. Alas, my run of good luck may soon be at an end. The Angry Marines are not generally characterised by a cheerful acceptance of change...

especially changes imposed from without...

very particularly especially changes to their unit composition mandated by none other than the Ultramarines, whose very Codex Astartes (oh Guilliman Restored, forgive me!) I have been impelled to use as an item of intimate personal hygiene in the Angry Marines' commode.

And yet today the first company of Primaris Marrnes will be arriving on McRage to join their new battle brothers. The "Guillimarines", as I've heard them called around the barracks here from the day I arrived. The Ultra-Ultrasmurfs. The Fuck-knuckles. The Bitch-clone-fucking-sellout Poser Marines.

Such a momentous occasion will naturally require an Inquisitorial observer on site.

I am going to fucking die.

Which is why I am taking care to record this surreptitious livelog, tapped by my tongue against my molar-transcriptor as I take my place in the Rite of Welcome. My life is nothing, praise the Emperor. Direct observational feedback on the reception of our Imperium's newest super-Astartes into the Chapter deemed least likely to accept them will be invaluable to several parties.

They are docking now with our Battle Barge, the FUCKYOUNAMEITYOURSELF. Their vessel, officially the Undaunted but renamed in our local records "THE OFFICIOUS CUNT-BASKET", is busy initiating standard pre-docking handshake protocol, but I expect that...

yep, there it is. The Angry Marines have taken the simple expedient of ramming the FUCKYOU directly into the Undaunted's docking bay. It was a fair hit. Air is already cycling across both ships with only superficial loss to the void, it won't take long to clear the wreckage, and so the joining Rite is soon to begin.

A mere ten paces in front of me, well within explode-my-head-with-a-backslap range, stands Chapter Master Temperus Maximum himself. An AdMech representative, Magos Errant Gjarran 3FF stands some ways to my left. I am sure I sense fear in the writhing of its mechadendrites.

Two long lines of Angry Marines, each four long files of seven hundred ranks, stretch out behind us in a widening wedge, as though to flaunt the Codex Astartes prohibition on companies larger than a thousand. Aside from their numbers and their angry yellow banners, the most striking sight to one accustomed to other Astartes chapters is the conspicuous lack of bolt pistols in favour of a second chainsword or the heaviest of heavy weapons.

I also note that customary Space Marine practice is to greet newcomers with weapons RAISED, not brandished threateningly -- and thus also pointed directly at my back.

On either side of these lines there mills a mob of chapter serfs, aspirants, servitors and ordinary ship's crew. Banners burn with the emblematic angry face and raised yellow middle finger.

I now hear the stomp of boots but haven't caught sight of the 100 who will be the first in history to join the Angry Marines from outside their chapter. Having already written off my own life, I find myself idly wondering if anyone has warned them of what they will encounter. We went through sixteen liaisons in as many weeks before we started to get the hang of their red lines. How many of these "Primadonna Marines" will survive the year?

Ah, there they are. They march in a column five across, twenty files deep. I see the first file now...

I had heard that these new marines were taller but the effect is staggering. Every Space Marine inspires terrified awe with their size, their power, and above all their devotion to the Emperor. These new Primaris radiate the same majesty... perhaps it is as they humbly claim, that they are no better than their other battle brothers, but they are certainly... newer.

As my eyes take in the holy might of the Emperor's newest instruments, my trained Inquisitor's eye perceives what at first was a vague impression. The specifications of these marines' armor, while taller and sleeker than earlier models, are in fact even sleeker than the schematics of the Mark X Tacticus Armour I have memorised as a matter of course.

How strange. Thinner in the waist. Wider at the hips. Bulkier at the chest... at the bust!

Subtle as the difference is, certainly not detracting from their power and terror, their armour is unquestionably FEMALE.

How?

Before anyone speaks the center Primaris of their first file--surely their Lieutenant--is removing his helmet... HER helmet. By the Emperor! As strong and intimidating and, well, grizzled a face as any Space Marine's, and yet entirely feminine. Long luxurious red hair is cascading down her shoulders... by the Emperor, to live to see these days!

No word yet from the Angry Marines. I fear the worst. I'm enabling my audio pickup; it may well outlive me.

[Lieutenant Pedicaba]: WELL FUCK ME IT'S THE MUTE MARINES! HELLO THE FUCK TO YOU TOO, ASSHOLE!

[Assault Sergeant Dickface, interrupting]: OH NO NO FUCKING NO. NUH-UH. FUCK OFF. CHADMARINES ARE BAD ENOUGH BUT A STACY? GIRLYMAN AIN'T GONNA SHOEHORN SOME BOLTER BITCHES INTO OUR YEEEAAAARGH!!!

[Lieutenant Pedicaba]: WHOOPS DID I JUST "SHOEHORN" MY FOOT UP YOUR ASS? YOU CAN EAT YOUR OWN SHIT OFF MY BOOT LATER, SERGEANT. DO I LOOK TO LIKE I'M ARMED WITH SOME PUSSIFIED BOLTER?

[Chapter Master Tempestum]: WELL FUCKING ARSECHUNKS IF THIS ISN'T A CUNTY TURN OF EVENTS. I'VE SAID FOR MONTHS YOU NU-SMURFS HAVE NO BALLS AND WHADDYA KNOW.

[Lieutenant Pedicaba]: YEAH YOU CAN KISS MY TURGID OVARIES LATER FUCKLICK. LIEUTENANT PEDICABA REPORTING! BY THE EMPEROR'S SWEATY ASSCRACK WE HAVE ARRIVED THROUGH THE WARP INTACT, ONLY ONE LITTLE FUCKSLEAZE DAEMON INCURSION NEEDED ITS SHIT PUSHED IN. ONE HUNDRED NEW ANGRY MARINES ARE YOURS TO COMMAND, MY LORD CHAPTER MASTER!

(Oh Emperor protect us, they're all removing their helmets. Blonde hair, black hair, more redheads... if it weren't for their size you'd know they weren't Sisters of Battle by their color. And their language!)

[Chapter Master Tempestum]: HEY COGBITCH, YOU SURE THOSE FAGNUTS FROM MARS SENT THE RIGHT DELiVERY?

[Magos Gjarran]: All is in order, lord Chapter Master. These are indeed the Primaris Marines assigned by my masters to your most holy Chapter, uncorrupted by the Warp and in perfect genetic order. The Machine God smiles upon your union.

[Chapter Master Tempestum]: AND YOUR ARCH-ANUS FAGMASTERS DIDN'T SEE FIT TO MENTION THEY COME WITH A CUNT APIECE?

[Lieutenant Pedicaba]: YOU WANT "A PIECE" OF CUNT JUST FUCK YOUR OWN WHORE MOUTH, MY LORD.

[Chapter Serf Urguet Incelium, interrupting]: No!! Stop!! Please!! I can't bear it!

(Has this serf lost his mind! What is he doing?)

[Chapter Serf Urguet Incelium]: My lords, this cannot be! Kill me if you will, but we cannot have fucking WOMEN ruining EVERYTHING! It's all a trick by... by SLAANESH JUSTICE WARRIORS to force the evil of HEResy upon us. A trick! The holy gene-seed can't work on females! Blah!

(The Primaris nearest the serf has just spat on him. Looks like she got him right in the crotch.)

[Chapter Serf Urguet Incelium]: You stupid bitch! I'll fucking end you! I'll take a flamer to all the vapid whores in the Progenium! I'll...

[a distinct sizzling noise is audible]

[Interceptor Miserabila]: GUESS MY BETCHER'S GLAND WORKS AFTER ALL, HUH ASS-BADGER?

[Chapter Serf Urguet Incelium]: My DICK! Oh FUCK, OH EMPEROR! MY BALLS! MY BALLS ARE MELTING AWAY! AHHH!

[Lieutenant Pedicaba]: "BETCHER" WEREN'T USING THOSE ANYWAY, PANSY-ASS QUEEFSNIFF.

[Chapter Serf Urguet Incelium]: [voice dissolves into screams and groans]

[Chapter Master Tempestum]: HEH HEH, YOU'RE ALL RIGHT. MAYBE YOU REDRAGE WHORES WON'T EMBARRASS THE REAL SOLDIERS TOO MUCH AFTER ALL. TELL YOU WHAT, LET'S WIPE OUT THE ASSCHEESE HERETICS PLANETSIDE AND I'LL LET YOU FIX ME A SANDWICH.

[Lieutenant Pedicaba]: SAY THAT TO MY HAIRY PUSS, MY LORD CHAPTER MASTER PISS-BREATH. NOW ARE YOU GONNA FIND US SOME HERESY TO MURDER OR ARE YOU GOING TO STAND THERE ALL DAY LIKE YOU'RE SCARED OF A LADY?

[Chapter Master Tempestum]: WE MAKE PLANETFALL IN TWENTY MINUTES. WELCOME TO THE ANGRY MARINES... BATTLE BROTHER.

[Lieutenant Pedicaba]: YEAH, SLURP SHIT SISTER.

Audio pick-up disabled. I think that was the ceremony. The Angry Marines, Primaris and all, are exchanging soldierly embraces and head-butts and marching back to the barge, chanting as one, "ALWAYS ANGRY! ALL THE TIME! ALWAYS ANGRY! ALL THE TIME!"

I'm racing down the corridor with Magos Giarran as fast as my legs will take me. You just know they're going to perform an "expedited undocking" with fucking frag grenades. Again. Planetfall in seventeen minutes. If I'm somehow not rendered into inquisitor-flavoured jello... well, I'm already praising the Emperor's unlimited munificence that I'm alive at all.

Word must get back to Mars. If the Primera mix so well even with the Angry Marines, they'll be a valuable reinforcement to all our companies. In our darkest hour, the Imperium's new hopes redouble.

+++
Thought for the Day: The Emperor has fury enough for us all.
+++

=See Also=

*[[Golden Aquilas]]: /tg/ homebrew chapter, designed to cause as much RAEG and accusations of derp as possible.
*[[Space Marines]]: Rule 63 equivalent of female Space... wait.
*[[Sisters of Battle]]: The warrior nuns of the Imperium that wear power armor, often fight with bolters and chainswords, and are in a sense the "real female space marines" of Warhammer 40,000.
*[[Stormcast Eternals]], GW's [[Warhammer Fantasy|Fantasy]] Space Marines in [[Age of Sigmar]], which can be any species and gender thanks to their magical origins. At least one Stormcast group was announced to be comprised of men and women and SURPRISE WARHAMMER SHADESPIRE WAS ANNOUNCED AND FEATURES A FEMALE STORMCAST MINIATURE. And the Sacrosanct Chamber added a bunch more.
*[[Samus]]: How about a female Primarch?
*[[Daughters of Terra]] A not-quite Space Marines Female Space Marines chapter.

=Gallery=
<center><gallery>
Image:Sisters of anger2.png|And if you think this is bad, once a month they all gain Frenzy.
Image:1227373581722.gif|Lol. Why u mad tho?
Image:Nidsrape.jpg|Brother-sister Igpay Atinlay boldly distracts the Tyranid foe.
File:Love is a Battlefield by blazbaros.png|An almost perfect example of a female space marine, complete with the typical bulky space marine form.
Image:spessbitch.jpg|Not in fact [[Horo]].
File:Female_warhammer_40k_imperium_model_--_100D0212.jpg|She'd be even scarier if she took off that mask
File:Female_space_marine_warhammer_40k_model_--_Female_Warrior_Gabs.jpg|DYKE OUTTA FUCKING NOWHERE!
File:Female_space_marine_warhammer_40k_model_--_Female_Warrior_Jayne.jpg|Your eyes should start bleeding right about now.
File:Female_space_marine_warhammer_40k_--_Ingunna_Daughter_of_Russ_by_Greymark.jpg|PMS BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!
File:1k heresy.jpg|<s>Not</s> [[Just as planned]]. Now you know why Tzeentch doesn't invite Slaanesh to his birthday parties anymore.
File:Primarchs as teen girls.png| The Emperor made the Primarchs to be the greatest human warriors of all time, but [[Warhammer_High|even they were not immune]] to [[Rule 63]].
File:Femprah_by_Mr-Culexus.jpg|She was not amused by this development.
File:Saber ultra marine.jpg|Don't piss off Mama Smurf. Your genitals will not survive.
File:Chaos saber.jpg|Somehow still less of a failure than the real Abaddon. (Of course! Her arms haven't fallen off!)
File:Belldandy_blood_raveness_for_propertyoflamb_by_elvishprincess25-d9z451u.jpg|Belldandy of the Blood Ravens... Bloody Bell?
File:Propoflambcomm_urd_space_wolf_by_elvishprincess25-db1s3ab.jpg|Urd of the Space Wolves.
File:Skuld_amg_as_wh_iron_hand_by_elvishprincess25-daeba5v.jpg|Skuld of the Iron Hands.
File:The Little Sisters of Purification 1.png| Canon or not, the ideas's been around for a while.
File:The Little Sisters of Purification 2.png| Featuring Jokaero. Yes, there is a scenario.
File:Adepta Mechania Warpsmith (Pre Heresy) 01.png|Because metal tentacle rape That's Why.
File:Ariel Ventris 01.png
</gallery></center>

[[Category:Imperial]][[Category:Space Marines]][[Category:RAGE]]

Extra Heresy

2018-10-22T07:37:08Z

2600:1700:BF90:B950:75CE:BB1F:9F44:62ED: /* Things that are considered Extra Heresy */

{{heresy}}
[[Category:Heresy]]

[[Image:1232316384477.jpg|thumb|right|D:< !!]]

[[Extra Heresy]], also known as '''Double Heresy''', is a form of [[Heresy]] so Heretical that it causes everyone in the room to drop everything and stare in awe of how Heretical it is. The term was coined by [[Commissar Fuklaw]].

Some ways to define Extra Heresy:
# An extremely intense variety of normal heresy
# Something that's heretical even for Chaos (i.e. a pacifist [[Bloodletter]])
# Something that tampers the lore of an established franchise
# Something that just makes you [[RAGE]] with the intensity of a thousand supernovas (not always interchangeable with the term [[cancer]], which implies disgust rather than outrage)
# Something that the mere mention of which violates you to your core

Extra Heresy is punishable by <s>[[Exterminatus]]</s> <s>{{BLAM|ULTRA EXTERMINATUS}}</s> <s>[[Anal_circumference|Snoo-Snoo with an Ogryn]]</s> [[Protectorate of Menoth|Wracking.]]

...Followed by death, and revivification, followed by further death.

==Things that are considered Extra Heresy==

* [[Heterosexual Sex in the Missionary Position|Ultramarine players]]
* [[Daemonette]]s
* [[Matthew Ward|Matt Ward]]
* [[C.S. Goto]]
* [[Khornate Knights]]
* [[Female Space Marines]]
* [[My Little Pony|Ponies]] who aren't in [[Board-tans/mlp|their containment board]].
* ALL of the Grey Knights for [[Kaldor Draigo|some reason]].
* [[Furries]]
* [[Brony|Furry-Bronies]], even in their containment board.
* [[Chaos Spawn]] since just mentioning it causes to you t-AAUGHBLACIFTHFG
* [[FATAL]]
* [[Squad Broken]] (We're struggling to figure out if there's a level above Extra Heresy to describe it)
* [[Matt Ward|Fanboys]] or girls <s>or [[Meme|Fan-Attack-Helicopters]]</s> bad meme.
* <s>[[Dark Angels]]</s> <s>[[Space Wolves]]</s> Definitely [[Dark Angels]].
*[[Cultist-Chan]]
*[[Heresy]] is extra heresy. Shut up.
* Xenos love (as per [[Commissar Fuklaw]] stated)
*<s>Skub</s>
* The Entire Ultramarines Chapter.
* Suggesting any kind of relation between the (ultimate isekai) Overlord franchise and the (eternally shit-tier) SAO franchise.

Star Wars

2018-10-21T21:17:08Z

2600:1700:BF90:B950:75CE:BB1F:9F44:62ED: /* I'm Solo, Han Solo, Han Solo */

[[Image:StarWarsLogo.png|right|400px|thumb|]]
{{Topquote|A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away....|Star Wars opening text}}
'''[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D0ZQPqeJkk/ Star Wars]''' is one of, if not ''the'', most influential media franchises of modern times, let alone its effect on science-fiction and fantasy. Indeed, among [[/tg/|nerddom]], it is challenged by only a few others, like [[Star Trek]] and [[The Lord of the Rings]]. The incredibly ardent fandom is spread worldwide and has a strong presence in popular culture. Many of the characters, like Darth Vader and Yoda, are iconic even to the general public. John Williams' score for the original trilogy is probably the best-known film score of all time. The universe has spawned numerous video games, hundreds of novels, multiple TV shows, one of the largest merchandising franchises ever, and, relevant to /tg/, a whole bunch of board, card, and roleplaying games.

It is also the current leading world source of [[Skub]].

==The Basic Concept==
Star Wars was originally a series of epic science-fantasy "space operas" that roughly followed the mythic cycle that's been around since Homer. They're set "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away," [Note: this makes the entire series a fairy tale] where a mysterious life force called (reasonably enough) the Force permeates everything. This, in turn, can be wielded by certain people, giving them pseudo-magical abilities; thank the Emperor (no, the other one) there were no Commissars in that universe. Those who use it for good become mystical, selfless warrior monks called Jedi, whereas those who use it for evil are ruthless, self-serving bastards called Sith. However, the Force must always be in balance, so any time the Sith arise to cause imbalance, the Jedi have to pull together and take them out to restore the natural order.

The so-called Original Trilogy (made up of films IV through VI, released from 1977 to 1983) followed a young man named Luke Skywalker who becomes a Jedi and re-balances the Force. Meanwhile, the Rebel Alliance is fighting to end the oppressive Galactic Empire, which is secretly led by the Sith. Luke and his Rebel companions eventually defeat the evil Emperor Palpatine, but along the way they discover that his lieutenant, Darth Vader, is actually Luke's father. A financial, critical, popular and cultural H-bomb, these movies are basically the filter through which Generation X perceives the world... for better or worse.

The so-called Prequel Trilogy (made up of films I through III, released from 1999 to 2005) explained how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader and how the Galactic Empire was established. This involves a lot of convoluted politicking in the Republic, which is then torn apart in the Clone Wars, where the Republic (with an army of clones led by the Jedi) fights against the Confederacy (with an army of robots led by [[Necrons|General Grievous]] and secretly controlled by the Sith). It was not as well received as the first trilogy, for reasons we'll talk about below.

There's also a so-called Sequel Trilogy (made up of film VII and presumably films VIII and IX), which started in 2015 and picked up the story some three decades after the Emperor's defeat with a new generation of heroes taking on the remains of the evil Empire, which is a group of extremist former Imperials calling themselves the First Order. However, Episode VII aka ''The Force Awakens'', was directed by J.J. Abrams, who's mostly known for the [[skub|skubtastic]] [[Star Trek]] reboot. So [[skub|guess what]]? Time will tell if the upcoming sequels, directed by other less controversial folks, will make things better or worse.

Finally, there are the so-called Anthology movies, standalone one-shots involving characters and plotlines that aren't a part of the main "Saga" films, except they kind of are. The first, Rogue One (2016), is an immediate prequel to Episode IV that follows those Rebel spies who stole the Death Star plans. The second film follows a young Han Solo and pals Chewie and Lando. A third rumored one follows Boba Fett.

There are also three separate TV series. The first one, ''Clone Wars'', was based on traditional animation, whereas the later one, '''''The''' Clone Wars'', was a weird 3D animation. They're both pretty good. There was also a terrible theatrical release that was basically just an advertisement for ''The Clone Wars'', but, since it's even worse than the Prequel Trilogy (hint: babysitting Jabba the Hutt's kid), nobody talks about it much. The third series is Disney's ''"Rebels"'' which is set between Episodes III-IV and it takes itself far less seriously than Clone Wars did, and is more of a homage to the original trilogy since not every character in the series is the owner of a lightsaber nor are they constantly talking about grown-up politics, senators and trade embargoes... pretty much the things that clogged up the plot of the prequel trilogy.

And then there's the whole Expanded Universe, which covers pretty much everything not covered by the films, like the Old Republic (set thousands of years before the prequel trilogy, when there were a hell of a lot more Sith and Jedi around) and the New Republic (set immediately after the original trilogy, explaining what became of all the characters. Also features Force-less, extra-galactic, fanatical [[Dark Eldar|space cenobites]].

The EU is no longer considered in the main canon of the films and TV series, due to the new sequel trilogy which does not follow EU, the reason for this being, according to Disney, that following EU would restrict their creative freedom. The reaction to this was, well, [[skub|mixed, for lack of a better word.]] They've since noted that they'll slot ''some'' of it in on a case-by-case basis, but the canon is in a highly fluid state at the moment. EU is now officially called Star Wars Legends, though most fans still refer to it as EU.

==Why was it so popular?==

Star Wars is as accessible as science fiction gets. It doesn't require extensive knowledge of a fictional world (a la ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'') or cultural background (as ''[[Star Trek]]'' sometimes does) to make sense. Those elements are present for those who want them, but they stay in the (very rich and vibrant) background. It has well-shot action and good ''enough'' dialogue to make it interesting for both kids and adults (as well as allowing parents who grew up with it to watch it with their children, thereby hooking the next generation of viewers). It has simple, good-vs.-evil themes that resonate with almost anyone, anywhere, at any time. The science fiction elements are generally handled well if you don't obsess over making science fiction realistic and hard. It's a prime gateway drug for sci-fi which still holds up to the experienced eye, Isaac Asimov saw and rather enjoyed the films. All in Fourteen hours of cinema, plus optional sides for those who want it.

There's a ton of merchandise that is, of course, really cool. Also, given it's crossed over into the mainstream, many people feel comfortable being part of the community without feeling judged as "nerds" (as they might with ''Lord of the Rings'', ''D&D'', ''Star Trek'', ''Warhammer'', etc.).

Again, they roughly follow the mythic cycle that's been around since Homer. If you think about it, 4 of the 7 films can be summarized as: hero begins his journey under the tutelage of a wise (more or less) man, they encounter a threat which has captured/enslaved a princess/girl, who was in one way or another connected to an important secret (usually a superweapon but could be the identity of a political figure or the location of someone); the heroes save the princess/girl but someone dies tragically in a battle against the villain while someone else is blowing up a space station or a spaceship afterwards they are happy, they celebrate and mourn the loss of the poor bloke who died.

Additionally, the first film can be summarized as a samurai and a gunslinger team up to save a princess from Nazis in space. That is multiple cinematic genres at once, following the style of the epic myth.

==Characters==
===Pre-Disney===
* Luke Skywalker: All-round good guy and idealist, despite being a complete idiot, Luke wishes to learn the ways of the Force to defeat the Emperor and save the galaxy. A Jedi prodigy, he can lift heavy ton space fighters with just his force powers, though he struggles with doubts. Although he starts all brash and teenage and shit, by the conclusion of the trilogy, Luke is well on the way to becoming a wise and powerful Jedi ready to rebuild the Order. Then he ends up training Kylo fucking Ren and becomes a [[Neckbeard|grumpy old man who just wants the Jedi Order to die with him since he's been disillusioned in people not being shitty now that his shitty-feeling self is considered the least shitty person in the universe]]. It takes a direct Force-powered intervention from Leia as well as Yoda's Force ghost telling him "don't worry, we both fucked up and the kids still love our <strike>toys</strike> legends" to get him to nut the fuck up and help stop the First Order by embarrassing Kylo Ren in front of everyone. Yoda also trolled Luke from beyond the grave once more, destroying the tree which supposedly contained the last books about the Jedi code and history which turns out to be because Rey had already stolen said books and the destruction of the tree prevented Luke from discovering that fact, ensuring the Jedi will continue regardless of Luke's faith crisis. In the original EU, Luke was '''FAR''' more successful and trained many generations of Jedi including his niece (future Empress of a reformed Empire) and non-evil (although he came close a few times) nephew, destroyed massive remnants of the Empire over and over again, killed the fucking Emperor over and over again, fought off space Cenobites that almost destroyed the galaxy, blew up more Death Star-type things, killed a god made of crystals (we don't like to talk about that one), and hooked up with the Emperor's own hot red-headed assassin.

* Han Solo: Dashing [[rogue]] and space cowboy who somehow shoots his way out of debt to the mob, ends up a general, and bags himself a princess. Not a bad series' work. His ship, the Millennium Falcon, deserves a mention too for being as iconic as he is. Unfortunately his actor Harrison Ford always went back and forth on wanting to continue the franchise, mostly because he thoroughly hated Solo and wanted him to die pretty much from day one, only to be thwarted in Empire and again in Jedi by the character's popularity. Ford agreed to return for Episode 7 when Disney finally gave him his wish, having Solo fail to redeem his son Ben (named after an crazy old man he only knew for a few hours) and getting a metaphorical and literal lightsaber through the heart for it. In pre-Disney continuity he was once a Swoop (flying motorcycle) racer turned Imperial Officer who shot his superior that was beating a Wookie to death and gained a lifelong friend in Chewbacca, post-Disney origin is covered in a solo movie named Solo. It's... well, see below.

* Princess Leia: The regulation piece of lady crumpet in the movies, Princess Leia was a leader in the rebel alliance and (spoiler!) Luke's long lost twin sister. Also both a capable soldier and politician. Her being forced to wear a metal thong by an overweight space slug named Jabba the Hutt has since cemented her role as sex idol to legions of adoring fan boys, while her general [[Awesome|door-kicking deadshot sarcastic asskickery]] made her a feminist icon as well (this was back in the 80's when the two could be the same). With her home planet and entire adoptive family destroyed by the Death Star, she became a General although somehow retained her princesshood (yes, she's now a Disney Princess), and went on to become a full-on Jedi warrior in the pre-Disney EU. [[Skub|Not in the new canon though.]] She manages to somehow [[Roboute Guilliman|survive getting shot into space]] using her latent force abilities in TLJ, probably the most ridiculous part of the film. Unfortunately thanks to the death of her actress Carrie Fisher (given the amount of cocaine and partying she's done over the years it was amazing she lived as long as she did) Leia will have to die offscreen between Episode 8 and Episode 9...unless they do an uncanny valley CG model again.

* C-3P0 and R2-D2: Two robots trapped in a sexless gay marriage who are the only minor characters to have been in all the movies so far, and even in stories like The Old Republic outside of their millennia of existence will usually have an equivalent. C-3P0 is the shiny golden humanoid robot who constantly fusses about keeping the furniture clean and worries that his pies are getting overdone in the oven while R2-D2 is the brash, brave husband figure who swings into action regardless. He looks like a salt shaker next to the Dalek's pepper shakers, although is he more a plucky rabbit to their rabid wild cats. The robots mostly have comedy roles in the movies, since they might threaten to upstage the human actors if they became too useful, though R2 has an electric cattle prod and serves as the party's computer skillmonkey, while C-3P0 saves the day with his mad linguistic skillz at least once per film in the original trilogy. They starred in their own cartoon series that was surprisingly good. After the original trilogy in both pre/post Disney continuity the writers don't seem to know what to do with them, and they just randomly appear sometimes.

* Chewbacca: The original furry in space, the dog you can have a beer with in the space Winnebago. Nothing sexy about him; he is just hairy, huge, knows how to pilot a space ship, fix stuff, fire a gun, and generally get shit done which strangely makes him the coolest furry ever. Best friends with Han, has a family that we can all agree did not appear in the terrible Christmas special that does not exist (he got a much more badass family in the Galactic Battlegrounds games, so go with that). Hates Trandoshans like all Wookies, since Trandoshans are almost always assholes and are particularly assholish to Wookies. In the pre-Disney continuity he was a slave that the then-Imperial Han saved and eventually get mooned to death by the extragalactic space cenobites, courtesy of [[R.A. Salvatore]]. In the post-Disney continuity he continues to be awesome and generally ignored in endings. The prequel trilogy revealed he's REALLY FUCKING OLD thanks to Wookie lifespan.

* Lando Calrissian: Suave, charismatic, and an expert con artist, this guy is the original pirate king in space. He betrays Han and co. when Vader invades his city, later regrets it, and then atones by saving the cast from the Empire as well as the populace of his city at the same time, then helps save Han from the mafia, and finally leading the fleet that blows up the Death Star 2.0.

* Obi-Wan Kenobi: If, at any point, in any work of fiction, the hero has an old master/father figure who teaches him part of what he knows, makes sure that he will grow up to be a virtuous and decent hero, but ultimately dies fighting a great evil to buy the hero time to escape, then returns as a spirit guide for the hero later, the Internet has probably accused that character of ripping off Obi-wan Kenobi. The prequels show him as a young Jedi and a deuterotagonist to Anakin Skywalker, acting as ''his'' master, teacher, partner, and dear friend before their eventual falling out [[FATAL|ends with Anakin losing most of his major extremities and organs]] and Obi-wan hiding out in a cave waiting to turn into Alec Guinness.

* Yoda: Ancient wise grand master of the Jedi Order who a tiny green alien is. Never named, his species was. Because of his size and age, most assumed just a harmless old teacher he was, your nice old granddad like. His pulling out a lightsaber and engaging a Sith Lord in combat at the end of ''Attack of the Clones'', one of the most surprising and popular fights of the series is. Became a big franchise mascot he did, despite a surprise for the audience he was meant to be in his first appearance, ruining it for future generations. A unique way of speaking, he has. A very popular target for parody, it has become.

* Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker/"The Chosen One": The black-helmeted face of evil and the most well known villain from Star Wars (and arguably the most recognisable characters in cinema). Has become an iconic and memorable figure due to his menacing, robotic appearance and ultra-deep, wheezy respirator voice. He is [[Meme|(spoiler!)]] secretly Anakin, Luke's fallen Jedi father, thus allowing him to be able to say the most memorable line in the film series, "''I'' am your Father!" Abaddon wishes he could be this sinister. His children eventually manage to rekindle the spark of human decency in his heart, and he redeems himself by giving up his own life to save them and destroy the Emperor. Hates sand. Fun Fact: his portrayal required four actors in the original trilogy: body, voice, face and a stunt double. Single-handedly rescues the entire spin-off film Rogue One with [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okAyvguQucs an '''incredible''' scene at the end].

* Darth Sidious/Sheev "Can't Peeve the Sheev" Palpatine/The Emperor: A creepy old wrinkly dude who sits in his badass evil throne constantly screaming "[[Just as planned]]!" And occasionally frying fools with force lightning. Built a giant planet-destroying weapon, then built another, bigger one as a trap when the first one blew up. He is very clever, managing to scheme and outwit everyone in the prequel trilogy, moving them all into place so he could take over the galaxy (although he still needed a big superweapon anyway to hold onto said power). Chews so much scenery they had to resort to computer-generated imagery. [[Meme|He is the Senate]].

* Admiral Ackbar: Giant tactical fish who has the need to point out obvious traps in memetic fashion. Leads the rebel fleet in the <s>third</s> sixth film. Dies in the eighth.

* Wedge Antilles: The anti-redshirt. Has almost no lines in the original movies but somehow survives all of them, even blowing up the second Death Star with Lando. In the EU he is one of, if not ''the'' best starfighter pilot in the galaxy, and co-founder of the über elite Rogue Squadron along with Luke.

* Padmé Amidala: Darth Vader's waifu who spends most of the prequel trilogy being a hopeless pacifistic idealist [[Derp|(which makes her a hypocrite with all the fight scenes she's in.)]] Get's choked by Vader and dies giving birth to Luke and Leia, which ironically Vader was trying to prevent in the first place after seeing a vision. [[FAIL|Way to go, dumbass]]. Haven't you ''read'' a work of fiction with that kinda prophecy in it before?

* Jar-Jar Binks: Solely exists to fuck up everything (and we do mean EVERYTHING) at the worst possible moment. This guy is so hated by everyone in and out of universe that even Lucas shitcanned his role down into a very brief cameo at the end of Episode 3. He's actually something of a tragic figure representing someone good who tries to act to save the galaxy but ended up ruining it instead. He manages to be less of an annoying fuckup in the CGI Clone Wars series, though only just. The clones that get stuck with him from time to time ''can't stand'' him. There are rumors that he was originally going to be revealed as a villain but because of his poor reception, this idea was scrapped. People who dislike Episode 7 often refer to its director as Jar Jar Abrams. Got a depressing meta style sendoff in the Aftermath book after Disney got the rights, which is a shame since it was hinted at in the Clone Wars series that he would marry a powerful alien queen who thinks he's a sex magnet. No really.

* Wilhuff Tarkin: [[A Song of Ice and Fire|Tywin Lannister]] [[Indrick Boreale|IN SPHESS]]. Ruthless, ambitious, and cold, Grand Moff (Governor) Tarkin is the epitome of all that is Imperial in the SW Universe. His idea of ruling pretty much comes down to "They can hate me as long as they fear me", which is symbolized ultimately by the Death Star. [[Derp|However, he uses the stick far too often and hardly uses the carrot]], and this policy backfires on him horribly when he destroys Alderaan, a Core World and one of the founders of the Old Republic- for instead of cowing the galaxy into submission, it, along with the Battle of Yavin which saw himself and his battle-station destroyed, [[Fail|galvanized half the galaxy into openly declaring for the Alliance]].

* Jango and Boba Fett: Father and son, though the son is actually an unaltered clone of his father. Badass, mostly-silent mercs who get shit done and come from a line of Spartan/Viking/Māori warriors in space called Mandalorians. Sadly, both had very anticlimactic deaths, though Boba survived his in the EU, through the power of being too popular with the audience to kill permanently. (This became canon after Disney made the entire EU non-canon. Rumour has it Boba will be getting his own spin off movie.)

* Jabba the Hutt: Obese slug who is a cross between a Mexican drug cartel kingpin and Mafia crime-boss. He runs his criminal enterprise from an old palace-monastery on Tatooine. A [[/d/]]eviant at heart, likes to fap to hot alien chicks dancing for him until they try to escape, then faps even harder when he feeds said chicks to Rancor. Gets strangled to death by a bikini-wearing Leia with her own chains, because symbolism.

* Mace Windu: The original only black dude in space, he was the hardest-as-nails Jedi master of the council during the prequel trilogy and the best swordfighter in the Order, hence his unique purple lightsaber. That, and Sam Jackson wanted his own color to stand out. If Anakin hadn't interfered, he would have killed Darth Sidious and none of the original trilogy would have taken place. His subsequent anti-climatic death in the movie is regarded with annoyance by his fans. His mastery of the Force allows him to channel his anger and enjoyment of battle into his combat style without being corrupted by the Dark Side. He can also detect what he calls "shatterpoints", which lets him detect weaknesses to either mess people up in combat or exploit the "for want of a nail" proverb to turn situations to his side. Has a novel, Shatterpoint, which is pretty much Heart of Darkness IN STAR WARS. Was rumoured to be Disney’s wannabe Emperor, Supreme Leader Snoke, before *SPOILERS!* <s>Ben Solo</s> Kylo Ren killed him, so no one really cares now.

* Qui-Gon Jin: Liam Neeson as a Jedi. He was the only one smart enough to recognize a Sith plot, and would've uncovered and exposed Palpatine if it weren't for Darth Maul's sword going through his gut. Was the master of Obi-Wan, and tried to teach Anakin the basics from beyond the grave.

* Count Dooku: An elegant, charismatic, gentlemanly Sith lord and master fencer who had dreams of liberating the galaxy from Republic control, but didn't expect his partner in crime to be a backstabbing douchebag. Hates Anakin/Vader for not being a gentleman.

* Darth Maul: Horned Sith only concerned with bloodshed and fighting. He'd do well as a Khornate Champion. Had his legs cut off then was brought back more badass than ever, until he was utterly stomped by the Emperor then gets killed in a duel with an elderly Obi-wan almost 18 years later. Wields a sick-looking double-bladed lightsaber, doesn't actually gets a single line in the first film dubbed in by a different actor, and played by famous martial arts master Ray Park. He was a silent badass in the movie but for some reason he was made very talkative in the animated series. The EU gave him a backstory as the scion of a race of Sith-aligned Force witches that ''The Clone Wars'' later made canon. The director of ''Solo'' picked him out of a hat to be the leader of the nefarious criminal gang Han gets stuck working with.

* General Grievous: A cyborg even more fucked up than what Darth Vader would become, Grievous was the Supreme Commander of the Droid Army during the Prequels and the Clone Wars TV series (both versions), and a sadistic Jedi hunter. His competence is usually portrayed two totally different ways; in the 2D animated TV series (created by the same guy who made [[Samurai Jack|Samurai Jack]]), he is portrayed as an unstoppable killing machine who roflstomps experienced Jedi Masters, and is only bested by Mace "The Ace" Windu. In the CGI series and the third film, he is an [[Stupid Evil|incompetent, frothing loony]] with a record of failure that even Abbadon would laugh at hysterically. Actually has a somewhat-tragic past: he was a great and virtuous hero on his primitive planet, but when the Separatists harvested his shredded body to repurpose into their general/assassin, Dooku had those parts cut out of his brain until only the raging killer was left.

* Stormtroopers: The elite soldiers of the Galactic Empire. Originally, these soldiers were vat clones of Jango Fett cloned in large numbers, trained from birth in combat and clad in environmentally sealed suits of their famous gleaming white full body armor. After the rebels blew up the gene-banks, the Empire switched to an enlistment system. (Not having a good dental plan to bring in recruits, the First Order resorts to [[Schola Progenium|kidnapping children and raising them as soldiers]] to fill their mook quota.) Numerous sub-categories exist, specializing to operate in different environments (deserts, frozen tundra, zero gravity, underwater, etc.) and serve different roles (scouts, aerial jump-packers, heavy-weapons teams, etc.). They are unwaveringly loyal and obedient to their Empire, ruthless and brutally efficient foes in combat, and incredibly precise shots with their state-of-the-art weapons. Naturally, these qualities all go out the window when they encounter the protagonists, but that's life when you're wearing a [[helmet]].

===Post-Disney===
* Rey: Protagonist of the new trilogy. Most people either think she's a sloppily written Mary Sue and wish-fulfillment character for the writers' female-empowerment fetish or that she's a fine protagonist and the former group is just being salty about new things. People don't like Rey because she comes out of nowhere, from nothing (the damn movies even lampshade that), and yet right off the bat Rey can pilot the Falcon very well. She hasn't undergone the traditional Hero's Journey to earn her skills or develop her character, and many see natural talent and an innate well rounded personality as poor story telling in a fairy tale.

* Finn: A First Order Stormtrooper (serial code FN-2187) who has doubts about the First Order after a battle where he has to shoot innocent civilians, ends up defecting to the Resistance, allowing him to actually aim worth a damn. An obvious token minority shoehorned into the film for diversity points, Finn ends up carrying ''The Force Awakens'' thanks to the acting talents of John Boyega. He probably would have made a much better main character than Rey because at least ''he'' has a fucking ''reason'' to go on a space adventure. He’s basically Kyle Katarn, only he didn’t get to steal the Death Star plans or become a Jedi. Finn unfortunately is a character without an arc, as discussed below.

* BB-8: The R2-D2 replacement and mascot of the new trilogy. Poe's buddy robot, started out as the plot device that the First Order was after in The Force Awakens, saves Finn and Rose's asses twice by taking down prison guards and piloting an AT-ST to attack Stormtroopers in The Last Jedi as well as Poe's in the comic.

* Poe Dameron: An X-Wing pilot and one of the best pilots in the Resistance who gave Finn his nickname. Poe is the son of an ace pilot and an elite Rebel soldier, who was seemingly conceived in an Ewok hut during the Yubyub song and grew up with a holy Force tree in his yard that was a gift from Luke. Gets captured by the First Order but gets rescued by a defecting Finn and they both escape using a TIE Fighter. Assumed dead by Finn after crashing the TIE Fighter, though ends up coming back shooting down an entire squadron of TIE Fighters. Its never really stated why did he leave Finn behind in the crash site, how did he leave the planet or why did he pretty much abandon his mission of trying to find BB-8. As such he's barely in The Force Awakens. This is because the original script George Lucas proposed for Force Awakens used Poe as a means of Finn escaping, whereupon Finn takes it on himself to complete Poe’s last mission and eventually replace Poe in the Resistance. After Poe’s actor lamented that he dies in every movie, Poe was made to survive the crash and Finn gained a fearful coward who becomes a hero subplot, which unfortunately left both characters with nowhere to go for character arcs. Poe is far more important in The Last Jedi, <nowiki>but not in good ways. He disobeys orders and leads an attack on a First Order capital ship which not only results in the destruction of most of the surviving Resistance small fighters, but delays their escape long enough for the First Order flagship (so large it is essentially a giant capital city for the First Order) to catch up with them and massacre the Resistance. Poe then mutinies when the now-comatose Leia’s subordinate Holdo is put in charge of the Resistance (Ackbar was killed before that because his Voice Actor died, leaving Holdo as highest ranking officer) to enact his own plan using Finn...which fails, resulting in the deaths of most of the rest of the Resistance and the loss of their last capital ship. Poe’s counterattack also fails, and by the end its only thanks to Rey and Luke that anyone survives. By the end, there’s barely enough Resistance left to fill up the Millennium Falcon, although the First Order got it just as bad thanks to Holdo’s last act. In short: Poe is Magnus the Red tier of fuckups (for the same reason too, not being trusted with the truth but with even less justification).</nowiki> If Poe hadn't had the dreadnought destroyed. It would have with ease one-shot their ships and their base if they would have even got there. Not to mention that the bombers where the worst designed starships to date. No big loss there. In other words, he is the only reason they survived.

* Maz Kanata: A <s>cartoon Chinese grandma</s> orange alien who knows a lot about the Force. In her backstory she was a Force-sensitive that’s somewhere in Yoda-tier age, but was never trained as a Jedi and instead used her talents to survive among the “third faction” (Hutts, smugglers, mafias, Mandos) while remaining as friendly to the “light side” factions as Hutts are to the “Dark Side” factions. Apparently also a supreme badass, judging from her brief appearance in TLJ. She procured Anakin’s/Luke’s blue lightsaber from the depths of the Bespin gas giant simply because she wanted it, and gave it to Rey in Force Awakens as well as some grandmotherly advice to her and Rey. She appears briefly to give the heroes contact information for a codebreaker in The Last Jedi.

* Kylo Ren: A Dark Jedi who is actually the son of Han and Leia, Ben Solo, which the Internet absolutely refused to shut up about after it was leaked. He idolizes his grandfather, Darth Vader and wears a black suit and a mask to show this. He wields a unique crossguard lightsaber. People thought he would be a badass after seeing the trailers but after seeing the movie, he turned out to be a complete pussy who very often gets temper tantrums and gets his ass kicked by a teenage girl (though to be fair, if he had been a complete badass, everyone would’ve just complained that he was a rehash of Vader. So, you know, rock and a hard place). His name is something of a question mark, considering that most fans associate the name with Obi-Wan but Leia never met him and to Han, he was little more than a customer whom he knew for less than 24 hours. Would have made perfect sense for Luke to name his son Ben, which he did in EU but for Han and Leia it makes little sense (their older son was named Jacen, the younger son the cringeworthy Anakin in the EU; Kylo is far more similar to the constantly Dark Side tempted Jacen than Anakin, who dies young alongside Chewie). Kylo's character became significantly more fleshed out in TLJ, ironically making him one of the only characters to have actual development in the whole movie, and he has managed to win over many fans, with some citing him as probably the most interesting character in the Sequels.

* Snoke: Supreme Leader of the First Order who speaks to his underlings through a massive hologram. Very little is known about him at the moment. Though many fan theories say that he is Darth Plagueis, the old master of Palpatine who was assumed dead, the powers that be have repeatedly denied the theory (though it's admittedly a better guess than suggesting that Snoke is [[What|Mace Windu, Boba Fett, or a clone of Darth Vader]], which we would like to stress are [[Derp|actual fan theories]])...unfortunately, we will have to wait for an inevitable comic book or novel to explain it, since he [[RAGE|gets killed like a chump by his own servant, Kylo "Emofag" Ren.]] It is possible he may return given that the ring on his finger has inscriptions that translate to various rephrasing of “survive death”, but that may actually be a nod to Palpatine’s EU resurrections.

* General Hux: The First Order's Tarkin equivalent and a moustacheless ginger Hitler in space. Delivers a pretty cool speech, but can't fight to save his life.. The backstory for Hux is his father was an Imperial hero, and Hux wants to be the First Order version of his old man and lead the FO to a final victory. Hux openly dislikes Kylo Ren and has frustration with the Force-users borders on meta at times. Spends most of TLJ as a foil to the edgier and more toyetic bad guys, but he seems to be the only one to have noticed how impractical the Empire/FO's fuckhuge weaponry can be when you're fighting something smaller than a planet and have lost the element of surprise.

* Captain Phasma: A First Order operative in charge of instructing the new Stormtrooper legions, Phasma serves as the Boba Fett of TFA - which is to say that she does nothing of note other than stand around and look cool until she figuratively and literally gets thrown into the trash in Force Awakens. Lucasfilm have apologized for overadvertising the character in the lead-up to the film and have promised to give Phasma an actual role and backstory for TLJ that will play into Finn's story. (This turned out to be bullshit due to the fucked-up nature of TLJ's production, but the reshoots managed to give her a good showing anyway.) Her backstory was released in a novel where she was a tribal on a planet the Empire stripped into the stone age, who backstabbed her tribe for a stronger tribe, backstabbed her second tribe and brother to rescue a stranded Imperial officer and join the Empire, backstabbed her mentor to become the supreme commander of the Stormtrooper Corps in the First Order, then in the comic series she was shown to have survived the trash compactor when a Resistance bomb blew it up and she entirely disregarded everything (including saving Starkiller Base or Kylo Ren) to frame one of her subordinates for lowering the shields then promptly hunted him down to “bring him to justice”. So [[Skaven|she’s a spear-wielding backstabber extraordinaire.]]

* FN-2199/"TR-8R": a First Order Stormtrooper who wields a badass riot baton in combat. Notable only for two reasons; he shouts "Traitor!" at Finn, and then he kicks his punk ass despite the latter wielding a fucking lightsaber. Such is the stuff that memes are made of. Even if he goes out like a punk to Han Solo, by all accounts, FN-2199 is what Phasma '''should''' have been. [https://image.prntscr.com/image/VFRN0EFuQkCz3pkBYGCN2Q.jpg He would make a great commissar].

* Jyn Erso: A former member of the Space Taliban who is captured by the Rebels so they can talk to Space Bin Laden about rumors of a planet killer being fueled by Space Iraqi oil crystals, one that was partially designed by her father. Jyn is angry all of the time because her life sucks, she watches every parental figure in her life die in front of her, most of them over the period of a single day, and the movie hopes this will hide the fact that she really doesn't do much other then flip authority figures the bird. Her name mirrors that of Jan Ors, partner-in-crime of legendary badass Kyle Katarn.

* Cassian Andor: A Rebel spy and assassin, Cassian angsts about the fact that he lives in a political thriller set mere days before the simple morality of the original trilogy kicks in. His only friend is a droid, but that's not exactly unusual. Shares an award with Luke for not getting the girl in the end. Kind of. The Disney Canon variant of Kyle Katarn, an Imperial officer turned Rebel turned Jedi Master, who is so badass he shaves with a lightsaber. A massive waste of character.

* K-2S0: What C-3P0 would be if he grew a pair. A reprogrammed Imperial tactical droid and Cassian's only friend. Does that thing where he spits out survival odds in stressful moments. Caught a grenade in mid-air then tossed it back at it's original thrower without even looking. He dies first in order to establish that shit gets real in the last twenty minutes of the movie.

* Chirrut Îmwe: <s>Discount Jedi</s> The real star of Rogue One. A blind martial artist who may or may not have force powers, can beat a squad of Stormtroopers with a staff, shoot TIE Fighters out of the air, and could take your girl if he wanted to. Haha, jk, he's totally homo for his bara partner-in-crime with the badass autocannon. Even his actor (from the badass "Ip Man" series) admitted that he was shoehorned into the movie in a desperate attempt to make China give a shit about Star Wars.

* Baze Malbus: Chirrut's best mate and self-appointed bodyguard. Has three lines, but comes off as memorable because of his hellgun-looking backpack mounted autocannon with a scanvisor that lets him hold down the trigger and headshot stormtroopers until they are all dead. In early scripts Chirrut was his father figure, in the finished product they're ambiguously gay even though the director intended there to be a "finding peace with the pastor who heard his confession after a very grim life" vibe.

* Orson Krennic: Director of the Imperial Military Research Division. Forces Jyn's father into building the Death Star for him, then proceeds to spend the rest of the movie getting roasted by the more competent Imperial characters because he's a fucking moron with a grudge.

* Saw Gerrara: Originally a member of the Space Viet Cong, this guy doesn't fuck around. Torture civilians? Check. Massacre entire patrols of Imperials? Check. In fact, his methods were considered so extreme that even the Rebel Alliance wanted nothing to do with him. Strictly speaking, he's a pre-Disney character as his first appearance on-screen was as part of the Clone Wars TV series; his first episode airing the same month that Disney acquired the franchise, making him one of the few characters to make the transition from the small screen to the big screen. Though he gets deaded within the first 30 minutes of Rogue One he has a lot more of his back-story filled out in the Rebels TV series, including being played by actor Forest Whitaker.

* Amilyn Holdo: An [[Tumblr|overbearing, purple-haired “Rebel hero”]] who somehow winds up being one of the key leaders of the Resistance, despite displaying no actual military acumen or diplomatic skill what-so-fucking-ever or even feeling the need to wear an uniform, instead wearing a [[what|ballgown]]. Is basically a pointless character that would have made a better impact if she was a Mon Calamari whose name rhymes with Allahu Akbar, her only role was to basically die in style but unfortunately she was pretty forgettable and nobody actually cared when she was atomized. (Tie-in material tries to "fix" this; the only real requirement for joining the Resistance was "didn’t think Leia was crazy for thinking the First Order was going to perform Star Wars 9/11”, and Holdo was only the captain of a small frigate before her battlefield promotion.) As a matter of fact, [[skub|her "super-duper secret plan" ends up getting most of the Resistance killed after Finn and Poe fuck it up]], due to the fact that she decided to [[skub|not tell a demoted and disgraced hot shot pilot who had just lost the resistance the last of their bombers her plan]] causing him to mutiny, and she only partially redeems herself via [[Awesome|FTL ramming their command ship into the First Order command ship, destroying most of the FO fleet]], which is visually spectacular but [[fluff]]-wise highly.... [[skub|take a guess]].

* Rose Tico: A maintenance worker who acts as a tagalong for some of the most boring and annoying parts of The Last Jedi. After losing her sister in the retarded cripplefight at the beginning of the movie, she catches her idol Finn trying to desert ship in order to warn Rey not to rendezvous as they were chased by the First Order fleet. Figuring out a way to deactivate the First Order's tracking system, she tagged along with Finn to the Gilded Age planet to find the expert capable of helping them. Her lust for Finn's BBC drives her to cockblock his heroic sacrifice on Salt Hoth before confessing his love for him at the worst possible moment in a plot point that will likely go nowhere. Also delivers the worst line in the entirety of the franchise: "[[What|That's how we are going to win. Not fighting what we hate, saving what we love.]]" This quantum singularity of [[AIDS]] led to a substantial fraction of TLJ's fan backlash being directed at her actress.

* Qi'ra: Han Solo's old girlfriend and partner introduced in ''Solo: A Star Wars Story,'' filling in for a number of older EU characters. Grew up with Han on Corellia before getting forced into the Crimson Dawn, which is like the Mafia in space except run by Darth Maul instead of the Hutts. Helps Han survive an unobtainium deal gone bad, then backstabs her boss to become her gang's alpha dog and Maul's personal agent. Too bad this will probably never be followed up on outside of tie-in novels thanks to how bad the movie did.

* L3-37: While K-2S0 brought droid characters to an awesome new high, L3-37 brings them to an embarrassing new low, becoming the most hated character in a Star Wars film since Jar Jar Binks. The /v/-tier name is only the warning label on this crock of shit. A <s>STRONG AND INDEPENDENT WOMXN WHO DON'T NEED NO MAN</s> droid that constructed a body for herself from spare parts, L3-37 is a [[SJW|woke robot feminist in space by direct admission of the writers, with everything that implies.]] Gets killed/destroyed in an escape attempt (to the rejoicing of movie audiences everywhere) but ends up as one of the droid brains running the Millennium Falcon. (Yes, the same computer C-3P0 complained about in the original trilogy; draw your own conclusions.) The sad thing is that the concept of droid rights in Star Wars is nothing new, it came up several times in the old EU. One good example is the old Star Wars RPG having a former TIE Bomber pilot who had cybernetic parts implanted after she suffered from a bad crash and created a pro-Droid movement/cult. The point is, there's no reason why a good character couldn't have come out of that concept. But when the producers are all crowing about how groundbreaking it is to have a female droid in the main cast (Lucas' prequel trilogy had two female droids as minor characters), it's clear paying homage to the old fluff, or just making a good character, wasn't exactly foremost in their minds when they made L3.

==The rise of the original trilogy==

A long long time ago, in a galaxy far far away....etc etc you all know the lines.

A man called George Lucas had the idea to create a series of epic sci-fi space operas that would become so successful that Disney would take notice and give it the franchise fluttering eye lashes, trying to seduce it.

They would be called... ''Flash Gordon''.

Unfortunately for Georgie boy, and fortunately for modern nerddom, Dino de Laurentiis already owned ''Flash Gordon'', and were busy making their own, hilariously eighties version, so he said, screw it, I'll make my own!

He decided to start with the fourth movie in the series he envisioned, for at the time he didn't have the special effects to create the first three to the standard he wanted, and/or he just kinda made up the first move up as he went along (drawing heavily on Akira Kurosawa's seminal samurai action film, ''Hidden Fortress'' in the process as well as the book [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_with_a_Thousand_Faces ''The Hero with a Thousand Faces''], a complex 1949 Joseph Campbell analysis of the various mythologies of human history all boiled down into the basic archtypes and elements required in heroic myth). So Episode Four ''A New Hope'' was created (simply titled ''Star Wars'' at the time) and it is not an exaggeration to say it changed the face of sci-fi and general moviemaking forever, bringing a new era of special effects and imagination to cinema and changing the lives of many who would go onto to become dedicated fan boys.

Originally, the studio had forced Lucas to take ever-increasing paycuts for what they were sure was going to be a flop, and only let him keep merchandising rights. However, whatever his flaws, George Lucas was a man of vision. Having helped pioneer the summer blockbuster, he went on to do the same to ginormous piles of movie-tie-in memorabilia. His production company, Lucasfilm ended up rolling in dosh, and with Episode Five ''The Empire Strikes Back'' and Episode Six ''The Return of the Jedi'', the legend of Star Wars and its place in cultural history was assured.

tl;dr: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij4w7ChpuaM Pretty much this.]

==The coming of the prequel trilogy==
With the year 2000 coming, George Lucas felt that special effects technology had reached the level he wanted and began to create the first three movies in the star wars story he had envisioned. (As a side-note, he also made some touch-ups to the three original films, re-mastering them with special effects and a couple of extra scenes that weren't doable with the eighties' animatronics. But those were mostly accepted/shrugged away since they didn't deeply modify anything.)

The hype for the movies was immense.

And then the first movie, Episode One ''The Phantom Menace'' came out.....and there was nerd rage beyond expectation.

Part of the problem was that the immense expectations of the fandom had grown until anything less-than-perfect simply would not do, so perhaps that is somewhat to blame for the reaction to the prequel trilogy. In a vacuum one has to admit that they aren't completely ''[[Twilight|terrible films]]'' .

Episode Two ''Attack of the Clones'' and Episode Three ''Revenge of the Sith'' followed after a few years each and didn't garner nearly as much hatred, though fans complained they didn't match the greatness of the original trilogy, more concerned with flashy action and effects than competent story-telling,

''Revenge of the Sith'' did, however, receive higher ratings than ''Return of the Jedi'', and is generally seen as the best and most-complete of the three prequel films as a story.

What was generally more well received (despite a rocky start with a two hour pilot being pressed into service as a movie and an art style that took some time to gel) during this time for Star Wars was the Clone Wars animated series (both the traditionally-animated ''Clone Wars'' and the later seasons of the CGI show '''''The''' Clone Wars'', the latter which most everyone agrees is what the prequels should have been), following the war between the Republic and the Confederacy that sprung up during the time between the second and third of the prequels.

In defense of the prequel trilogy's sins, they did at least do their own thing. Because of how much money the original trilogy made, practically every form of media in the 80s and 90s aped it to some form or another, and instead of falling back on the same old shit the prequels branched out and tried to get out of the franchise's comfort zone a bit. While a lot of it sucked, it blazed a trail for better writers to follow and helped liven up the universe by showing us the galaxy beyond fuckhueg spaceships and faux-Western shitholes like Tatooine. And all but the most [[Neckbeard|diehard OT purists]] can get behind shit like Naboo architecture, the Clone Army and Mace "The Ace" Windu.

==Disney and the sequel trilogy==

Finally, all the efforts by Disney to woo George Lucas paid off and in 2012 Disney acquired the Star Wars franchise for 4 billion dollars and immediately announced they would produce a new trilogy of films set after the original trilogy.

Expectations were almost as high as the private fears of the fans. Bringing on the creative talent behind the [[skub|skubtastic]] ''[[Star Trek]]'' reboot was equally... well, [[skub|take a wild guess]].

===The Mouse Awakens===
''Star Wars Episode 7: The Force Awakens'' debuted in December of 2015, and reception was what you would expect: the film was immediately a massive success from a monetary standpoint as everyone ([[China|almost]]) everywhere rushed to the theaters in response to the hype, with children engaging in as many repeat viewings as their parent's money could allow as fans did the same thing with their own. It has become a financial hit with the general public and a (critically) generally well-reviewed piece, with decent cinematography, special effects, technical stuff, etc. It also went on to become the third biggest financial success in film history, when not adjusted for inflation.

Fan response was a good deal more mixed. Many criticize the plot for rehashing Episode IV, without doing anything to establish its own identity and claim that it had a bland main character, [[Mary Sue|who had too many abilities]] whereas others find the replication of ''Star Wars'' feel an acceptable trade and praise it for being a decent action film, [[Skub|and point out the lead doesn't even outdo any of the previous main characters in anything.]] In fact, some would argue that by rehashing the original trilogy it basically nullified the accomplishments of the original crew; the Empire's still around, they've got yet another superweapon, Han & Leia split up, Luke failed to rebuild the Jedi, etc. Other fans praised it simply for being a new Star Wars that was better than the prequel trilogy.

And at least the jokes were better this time.

Coincidentally, when Hamill and Fisher were originally approached by Disney to reprise their roles as Luke and Leia, they ''didn't want to do it'' right from the start. But, they didn't want to give an out-and-out "no" answer either, so they told Disney they'd return if Harrison Ford agreed to return as Han Solo as well. Knowing how much Ford ''hated'' Solo, Hamill and Fisher figured they were safe, until Disney irresistibly sweetened the deal for Ford by agreeing to kill off his character, thus forcing a reluctant Hamill and Fisher to make good on their deal.

Disney also released ''Star Wars: Rebels'', their own CGI series, which is actually pretty ok (considering that it airs on Disney XD, it should be no surprise that they've toned down the graphic depictions of gratuitous violence, much to the chagrin of [[Neckbeards|those who love overly gory deaths]]). It focuses less on the Jedi that have come to dominate the franchise and more on the "boots on the ground" experience of the average characters, and while the show started slow and small, the plot has started to gain momentum as the series has progressed, especially after the first season. The Rebel movement has started to grow, several characters have returned from ''The Clone Wars'', and the enemies the main characters have had to face have been steadily getting darker and more dangerous as more of the Empire’s attention is attracted. When Darth Vader gets involved (played by none other than [[Awesome|James Earl Jones himself]]) he immediately proceeds to [[Awesome|open a 24-pack of unstoppable whoop-ass on the rebel scum]]. The return of Maul resulted in three character deaths (possibly four), the crippling of one main character with another well on his way down the dark side, and to top it all off Maul himself is on the loose once again. Things did not turn out so well [[Grimdark|last time that happened]], so expect the body count to rise, especially with [[Creed|Grand Admiral Thrawn]] now also coming onto the scene. The show also continues the trend set by ''The Clone Wars'' in making the Force mystical again, though whether this is a good or bad thing depends on how you felt about the <s>bullshit</s> <s>scientific</s> [[Skub|skubtastic]] midichlorian explanation of the Prequels. The animation is on point with ''The Clone Wars'', which considering it's Disney should surprise less than nobody. Oh, and Steve Blum voices one of the main characters. However, it is also noted that Star Wars Rebels may indeed have [[Grimdark|dark ending]].

[[Skub|The way that Filoni (the creator of Rebels and The Clone Wars) has handled the Mandalorians, a fan-favorite warrior-culture based upon the Scots and Vikings, has either been met with praise from those who despised Traviss and her overpowering of said culture, or utter RAGE that he turned many of them into either pacifist morons or bloodthirsty barbarians- usually that particular criticism comes from the Traviss fanboys]]. Do take note, however, that the old ways for the Mandalorians are making their way back into canon, such as the language, the emphasis on martial honor, and the decentralized nature of their government.

December of 2016 brought us the first standalone Star Wars movie, "Rogue One", showing the theft of the original Death Star plans. While "Rogue One" has been criticised for being lacking in character development; (fair warning) literally the entire cast of the movie who doesn't appear in Episode IV dies by the end, and it still manages to pack more than it's fair share of awesome into the movie, with Donnie Yen, Alan Tudyk and Darth Vader all used to great effect. Rogue One also answers several questions, plugs several plot holes, and just generally makes A New Hope make a lot more sense in retrospect. (No wonder Vader wasn't impressed when Leia claimed to be on a "diplomatic mission.") It also has the distinction of being the only Star Wars movie to focus on regular soldiers instead of Jedi. Much, much [[Skub]] still exists of course, since no Star Wars movie will ever please all the neckbeards but out of the four post-Disney Star Wars movies released so far, this one is definitely the least divisive and arguably the best of the bunch.

===Star Wars 8: The Last Royalty Check (aka zomg Luke dies!)===
On December 14 2017, ''Star Wars Episode 8: The Last Jedi'' was released world wide. The critical reception was [[Bullshit|extremely positive]], with many critics considering it the best movie in the series since The Empire Strikes Back. The fan reception has been a great deal more [[Skub|mixed]], and a number of fans are convinced that Disney leaned on media outlets to shill the new movie or else. If you have watched the Empire Strikes Back, you ''WILL'' be [[Rage|disappointed at best]], if you want to see a Star Wars film that would finally expand the character of Kylo Ren, you ''WILL'' be satisfied, and if you want to watch the film because it is the last film starring the great and wonderful Carrie Fisher, you ''WILL'' feel hollow and sad inside. The Last Jedi is seen as one of the most divisive films in the franchise by the fandom, [[FAIL|which is one hell of an achievement]] considering other films in the franchise.

The complaints about The Last Jedi are many: the treatment of Luke (which even his actor, Mark Hamill, hated, to the point that he has no interest in playing Luke again), Leia's Superman asspull, Finn's plot arc that serves practically zero purpose, the forced humor, the complete disregard for established [[fluff]], disregard for even the most basic laws of physics, the fact that the central conflict is essentially the same as the one in the originals right down to the last stand ripped straight out of ''Empire'' and the leftist bullshit (an admiral with problem hair who the plot always treats as being in the right despite killing 90% of the Resistance, the Gilded Age planet arc that [[Namek|sucks up a third of the movie to no benefit,]] Rose expressing her desire to get BLACKED with a horrendous and forced #LoveTrumpsHate one-liner in the final act) added solely to virtue-signal.

Fans have also criticized the movie for dropping or discarding major plot points from TFA and repeatedly invoking Shamalamadingdong-tier plot twists that are somehow less interesting than the recycled cliches they play off of. Director Rian Johnson has responded by shitting on said critics and trying to defend the film on social media like something out of an ED article. (Important note: George Lucas never tried to defend the prequels, despite the huge backlash at the time, and he agreed with fans that [[C.S Goto|The Star Wars Holiday Special]] was an abomination.) It later came out that Johnson had not been given any kind of roadmap beyond Lucas' old and unfinished concept scripts and was not allowed to see what Abrams had done until TLJ was too far into production to write in most of the previous movie's plot points, which makes the fail Disney's fault just as much as it is Johnson's. As with TFA Lucasfilm has tried to paper over the holes with tie-in material, and just like TFA the fans recognize the damage control.

The Last Jedi has without a doubt torn the fanbase apart in ways even the prequels didn't come close to, with many fans declaring that they have dropped the sequel trilogy. Even Star Wars' famous merchandising has taken a mauling, as [[/toy/]] giggles at Rose Tico and General Hux figures warming shelves while new product shipments go straight from the transport case to the clearance bin.

===[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg_FoEy8T_A I'm Solo, Han Solo, Han Solo]===
On May 25th 2018, the 41st anniversary of the franchise, ''Solo: A Star Wars Story'' was released. The general consensus seems to be that it is the most average film in the series. At the very least, most people agree that it is at least better than The Last Jedi (if barely) and the backlash from that movie can be felt even in Solo: many fans have chosen to boycott the movie. Even before release, many fans had derided the whole affair as unnecessary: no one was really asking for a Han Solo origin movie, particularly one without Harrison Ford. Han Solo's entire life history had already been explored thoroughly in EU novels and comics, so the movie could only be a retread or a retcon, both things most fanbases tend to disapprove of. Whether it is because of this boycott or not, [[Not as planned|something no one expected happened:]] ''Solo'' was a box office bomb. Its opening weekend performed way below expectations and as of this writing, it has only made half of the money it needs for it to break even. Disney still continued to labor under the delusion that China would save their bottom line regardless of the fact that Star Wars has never been popular in China.

So what is it like? Well, rather than being a space opera like the other films, this is a space Western. Rather than being about large-scale battles and saving the galaxy from tyranny, it's about heists and the galactic underworld. (Except for the Mimban sequence, which you'd swear was lifted from a live-action Imperial Guard movie.) It's essentially Disney's reboot/retcon of the old EU Han Solo novels, taking things that were mentioned offhand in the original trilogy (like how Han did the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs) and making that the subject of an entire movie. The film was perhaps cursed from the beginning due to its [[Fail|troubled production.]] How troubled? The lead needed an acting coach to get through his shoots and 70% of the movie had to be reshot by a different director due to [[Butthurt|creative differences]] between Lucasfilm and the original directors.

The fail only compounded when it premiered and fans got to see what those "creative differences" may have wrought: Lando was retconned as a [[Harkness Test|pansexual]] without ''any'' change in the character himself (ironically this controversial change doesn't actually show up in the script), and Han's sidekick for most of the movie is [[What|a self-built female droid social justice warrior]] named [[/v/|L3-37]]. Audiences ''cheered and applauded'' when that <s>man</s>human-hating self-insert character finally fucking died. Perhaps the most damning sin is that these are the movie's only notable qualities: take them away and you're left with a movie that would make you think "Huh, that was okay," and then never think about it again for the rest of your life, were it not for the crippling disappointment of seeing one of the most beloved franchises in the world fall so far.

''Solo'' cratered so badly that [[Exterminatus|all non-''Episode 9'' Star Wars movies were for a short time shelved indefinitely, and the only side-movie still being worked on is the obligatory Boba Fett origin movie, which is more likely to sell tickets based on the name alone.]] People love to blame/credit the boycotts, ''The Last Jedi'''s continued controversy, and [https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Gawker certain news outlets] claiming that everyone who didn't love it is a Trump supporter, but when you get down to brass tacks the movie is just meh. It's a Han Solo movie that doesn't have Harrison Ford in it, with actors who are decent but not good, action scenes that are decent but not good, continuity ties that are decent but not good. If you have literally nothing better to do it's the best upside-down flying train robbery with laser guns movie you could ever see, but otherwise it's a movie begging to find an audience and never did.

Incidentally, one of the writers picked by Lucasfilm to handle ''Solo'''s tie-in content, Cavan Scott, has been hired by [[Games Workshop]] for the [[Warhammer Adventures]] series.

==Expanded Universe==

It can be said what makes a franchise into a long term lasting thing is when a wealth of extra story and background is created that expands on the original story far beyond what there was. It could be argued Star Wars leads the race in this, as the sheer amount of extra novels, graphic novels and games based on Star Wars can and does overwhelm the ordinary fan.

The background has expanded into the distant past before the founding of the current Jedi and Sith orders and into the (not-quite-so) far future looking at the descendants of Luke Skywalker and other popular characters. Uniquely, especially considering [[Warhammer 40K|other]] [[Star Trek|franchises']] track records, the Star Wars Expanded Universe is remarkably internally consistent, both with other sources within the universe and with the films themselves. Sure, every once in a while the odd [[C. S. Goto|problem child such]] slips through, but on the whole it holds up well (largely due to the efforts of Lucas' company's continuity department leaning on everyone to hold it together).

Disney recently said "fuck it" and threw out everything but the films and the Clone Wars cartoons. New and old stuff ''are'' still filtering in, but on a case-by-case basis. [[Skub|Whether or not this is good or bad depends on mostly who you ask, as some feel the EU was filled with nothing but Mary Sues trying to out-Sue one another and a pro-monarchist bias on part of the authors, while others feel as if the stories in the EU were more fleshed out, deeper, and more realistic than the new Disney canon]], [[Not As Planned| and a third group who admits the old EU had plenty of good stories and plenty of bad.]] It would appear that Disney got the message from the third group, as they've brought back fan-favorite antagonist Grand Admiral Thrawn for Star Wars Rebels.

==Impact on 1d4chan and associated games etc==

Star Wars has had subtle and clear impacts on a number of other franchises and genres and it can be ''incredibly'' hard to gauge the extent of it all. Certainly it didn't create the concepts of sci-fi, space battles, sweeping storylines, and a blending of mystical and scientific ideas, but it certainly popularized them during the years of the original trilogy and influenced many people that would go on to have interests in sci-fi, fantasy and epic adventure today.

Hell, look me in the eye and tell me that the lightsaber didn't give us the [[power weapon]]. But then again, magic weapons.
==Sabacc==
A rather unusual entry here but it's well in line, Sabacc is an actual tabletop card game from the Star Wars universe which is basically a hybrid of Poker and Blackjack. A Sabacc Deck has 70 cards, most of which in four suits of 16 cards numbered one to 16, plus sixteen wildcards in two sets with values that were either negative or (in the case of the Idiot) Zero. The goal of the game is to have a set of three cards who's total as close as possible to, but not over, 23 or -23. If you got 23/-23 which could only be beaten by an Idiot's Array (One Idiot, a two and a three, thus 23). The stakes are raised every cycle until the cards go down or one player is left standing who gets the pot.

The notable thing about Sabacc that sets it apart from real world card games is that the Cards can change value every turn. A Pure Sabacc can easily become an instant lose 25 and an absolutely lousy hand can become an Idiot's Array. They can be stabilized to fix their value, but everyone knows when you do so. This feature has so far prevented Sabacc from being released in tabletop form as of yet.

==Tabletop games for Star Wars==

=== Role-playing Games ===

[[West End Games]] made a Star Wars [[role-playing game]] called [[Star Wars RPG|Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game]] AKA '''Star Wars D6'''. Like many West End products, it's a good game with the great misfortune of being published by West End games.

[[Wizards of the Coast]] picked up the license later and made two distinct RPGs based on their [[d20 System]], called [[Star Wars D20]] (imaginatively). Could be fun, but generally broken as hell, much like [[Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition|its parent game]]. It was then utterly revised that into what they called the '''Saga Edition''', which is relatively balanced and pretty good.

[[Fantasy Flight Games]] is presently selling [[Star Wars Roleplaying Game|a whole line of Star Wars-themed RPGs]], whether you want to play a bunch of scruffy space outlaws, members of the nascent Rebellion, or exiled Jedi Knights. Unlike their [[Warhammer 40,000 Roleplay]] games, which are all ''juuuuust'' different enough from one another to completely buttfuck any attempts at blending, all three gamelines use identical mechanics and are fully cross-compatible. Uses symbol-counting [[dice pool]]s with ludicrously overpriced custom dice.
Like the other RPGs they decided with the retardedly similar name, and thus this one is sometimes called '''Star Wars FFG''' to avoid confusion.

FFG have kept milking the franchise and in summer 2017, decided to [[Necromancer | reanimate]] the [[Star Wars RPG|Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game]] with a "30th Year Anniversary Edition" print of the original game. It '''''finally''''' shipped in July 2018 after spending a year in limbo.

=== Card Games ===

The big [[card game]] set in the Star Wars universe is the [[Star Wars Customizable Card Game]]. It's no longer produced by Decipher, but there is still a sufficiently large player community to organize annual tournaments, rule on cards, and so on.

[[Wizards of the Coast]] made the [[Star Wars Trading Card Game]].

[[Fantasy Flight Games]] is presently selling [[Star Wars: The Card Game]].

Obviously, nobody is capable of creating a Star Wars card game with an interesting name.

=== Miniature Games ===
[[Wizards of the Coast]] did a tabletop battles game imaginatively called Star Wars: Miniatures, based on an extremely dumbed down version of the D&D ruleset. The figures were meant to tie in with the Saga edition RPG, it wasn't terrible on its own, just impossible to collect for competitive play since figures came in random booster packs so you never know what you were getting for what faction. Who could possibly stand for that?

[[Fantasy Flight Games]] is producing the [[X-Wing]] miniatures game based on individual starfighter combat (because, let's be honest, that's what ''Star'' Wars is all about). They have also released [[Star Wars: Armada]] which is a larger scale "fleet" combat simulator, using capital ships and squadrons of starfighters.

'''Star Wars: Imperial Assault'''

The latest [[Fantasy Flight Games]] addition to its Star Wars related games is a mix between a miniature board game and a skirmish wargame. It has two play modes:

One for campaign play where 1-4 players control a team of Republic heroes and another player has the role of the DM, who controls the Imperial forces. The campaign, as the name suggests, focuses on character personalization, xp gain and the like, which you can find in any light RPG-esque (board)game. The main goal is to get a few friends together and casually play through the missions. Think of it as a Star Wars version of the original [[Hero Quest]].

The other play mode is skirmish play, where two players each get to assemble a team of miniatures plus a command deck (cards that have specific effects when played) and play against each other in an open-play scenario. The play area is still very limited to a few game tiles (as in a campaign mission) but players are free to bring whatever they want (wit ha few limitations of course). The skirmish part of Imperial assault is as close as you can get to an actual Star Wars skirmish wargame, but it is a missed opportunity from Fantasy Flight to create a true skirmish wargame (ala [[Infinity (wargame)|Infinity]]), not based on tiles and so confined spaces. Who knows what they have plans for though...

'''Star Wars Legion'''

And Fantasy Flight have now given us a fully fledged wargame, complete with AT-ST in the first wave. (They're 32mm scale, which means [[Games Workshop|no reusing your Imperial Assault miniatures]].) Legion has an integrated turn system, and the usual FF custom dice and forest worth of dead trees in cards and tokens that will be familiar to X-Wing and Armada players. The miniatures are PVC, reasonably detailed, easy to assemble pieces. A standard battle is 800 points, which could be anywhere from half a dozen to 16 units on the field, with an average army fielding 8-12 units comprising 30-ish models.

== See Also: ==
* ''[http://www.darthsanddroids.net/ Darths & Droids]'': A webcomic, made using photo-stills of the ''Star Wars'' movies to tell a story about gamers blundering through each of the six movies in sequence... though not quite exactly how you might expect. Think ''DM of the Rings'' in overall visual style, though unlike ''DM of the Rings'', ''Darths & Droids'' features several heavy twists on the actual events of the films, subplots about the players and their lives outside the game alongside the campaign, and a better overall quality of gamer.
*[[Timothy Zahn]]

[[Category:Star Wars]]

Dune

2018-10-21T21:07:27Z

2600:1700:BF90:B950:75CE:BB1F:9F44:62ED: /* Influence on Warhammer 40k */

__NOTOC__
[[Image:Dune_RPG.jpg|right|200px]]

'''Dune''' is the best selling science fiction/fantasy novel of all time. Written by Frank Herbert in 1965, it won several prestigious awards, including the very first Nebula Award for Best Novel, and went on to become an incredibly influential classic of the genre. Since then, it's been adapted to all sorts of media, including boardgames, video games, two mini-series, and a movie. Surprisingly, [[/tg/|we]] are not all that obsessed with it, but we do respect Dune for all it's done for sci-fi.

== Overall Setting ==
In the distant future, human civilization relies on "spice", a drug that expands its user's perceptions and triples the lifespan. Because electronic computers are taboo even over ten thousand years after the Butlerian Jihad against thinking machines, interstellar travel relies on spice-using [[Navigator]]s to plot safe paths through space and Mentats use spice to increase their cognitive abilities, becoming human computers able to process vast amounts of data. You could buy a mansion on a core Imperial world for a deciliter of spice. Its most unpleasant withdrawal symptom is inevitable death. Naturally, "the spice must flow" is a common sentiment. Basically spice acts as [[skub|plot device]] to explain the politic struggle in the books and to explain all sorts of magic-like stuff in the dune universe, without quite leaving the field of sci-fi.

Spice cannot be synthesized and is found on only one planet: Arrakis, a bone-dry dustball where enormous sandworms produce it as part of their life cycle. Imperial citizens only live there to extract, process, and export spice, living in fear of their overseers, the sandworms, and the human natives called the Fremen. Whoever controls Arrakis has a stranglehold on the whole of human civilization, and so when a conspiracy to hide this fact breaks down multiple factions fight each other for control of it or to use it against their enemies.

The six books of the original series (''Dune'', ''Dune Messiah'', ''Children of Dune'', ''God-Emperor of Dune'', ''Heretics of Dune'', and ''Chapterhouse Dune'') principally follow the scions of House Atreides as their futures become inextricably tied to Arrakis, the spice, and the future of humanity.

Dune is probably one of the most in-depth science fiction books ever written (if one ignores the almost autistic level of depth [[Isaac Asimov]] put into his universe during the same time with about 500 freaking books), considering the utter detail that goes into sociological, ecological, political, and economic elements that are added so neatly. It's like a textbook, only far cooler. Opinion on the later books in the series is split, with some feeling it's a continuous decline in quality through to the end, an increase in crap until you're four books in when you notice you're reading a doorstop chiefly composed of Leto whining that turning into a sandworm is haaaard, while others feel the next three books are crucial to understanding the themes Herbert started to explore in the original '''Dune''' (especially the damaging effects of hero worship on society). Still, everyone agrees that the prequels and sequels written after his death by his son are irredeemably bad, so avoid those unless you're a devout Slaaneshi follower trying to experience the whole spectrum of human emotion and the next thing on your list is mind-numbing disappointment and boredom.

===Influence on Warhammer 40k===

Being a highly successful series with an unique and interesting universe it is obvious that [[Games Workshop]] <s>stole</s> took inspiration from Dune more than an Blood Raven in an unlocked reliquary. While this topic is up for [[Rage|debate]] the following were most likely borrowed from the Dune universe:
* '''Close combat / Melee''': The Dune universe is close combat heavy. Like everyone goes into melee all the time, every time. This is explained by the widespread use of body-shields that can basically stop anything moving fast. Hence, people stab one another (slashing is inefficient due to going too fast) with (poisoned) daggers and swords. While there is some sort of (actually useful) [[Lasgun]] around, these things explode for no good reason if they hit a body-shield, destroying both opponents in some sort of atomic explosion (it is explained that the energy emission from the laser weapons interacts poorly with the energy emission from the shield causing a form of nuclear fission which causes the shield to explode in a similar fashion to a nuclear bomb). Which is illegal as fuck in that universe. Also deadly. That, and because it makes for a good story, is why knives or swords are widely used in that universe. It must be noted that there are four big exceptions: In the Dune deserts shields and [[Lasgun|Lasguns]] are a no-go (they attract worms who are too tough to kill without nukes or anything but water for some reason) and therefore ballistic weapons can be still used (but no one usually bothers to because reasons), a lot of people relay on poison and [http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Hunter-seeker technical gismos] to bypass the shield problem, vehicles are still a thing (even though they have shields) and the ''extremely'' exceptionally allowed nukes (which are <s>just illegal if used against human lives, but everyone has a stockpile</s> illegal as fuck if used against human lives and not even the goddamn emperor can give himself an exception).
* '''[[Navigator|Navigators]]''': The Dune universe has [[Navigator|Navigators]] which are ''slightly'' similar to the 40k universe. Only source of ship travel? Check. Highly mutated? Check. Mutation worsens over time? Check. Some sorts of magical powers, but somehow different to everyone elsees? Check. Living outside of all political powers? Check. Having there own political agendas? Check. Secretive? Double fucking Check. Basically they are the exact same thing with the small exceptions that they need spice to live. Also Dune kind of ripped them of the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanners_Live_in_Vain Scanners Live in Vain book from 1950].
* '''No AI allowed''': Basically the same story, AI goes bad, tries to conquer humanity, gets its virtual arse kicked and is subsequently forbidden. While the backstory is a little different the outcome is still the same. However Dune is a little bit more restrictive when it comes to [[Cogitator|Cogitators]] or [[Servitor|Servitors]] and uses hyper-trained from birth (and fucked up on drugs) humans known as 'Mentats' as supercomputers instead.
* '''[[God-Emperor of Mankind| The mother-fucking God-Emprah]]''': While the idea of an galactic Emperor is nothing new, Dune was [[Rage|debatably]] the first setting which implemented an de-facto immortal god-emperor. Decades of worshipping the 40k [[God-Emperor of Mankind|Empra]] is likely to make those fans think Dune's Leto II is some pathetic false-Emperor (just look how they treat [[Star Wars|Palpatine]]) but make no mistake: while he might not crush tanks with his brain, God-Emperor Leto II earned his worship after turning himself into an immortal giant worm with precognitive powers.

== The books ==
* '''''Dune''''' - The original novel. <del>The [[Lord of the Rings]] of sci-fi.</del> Very influential? Yes! Defining the Genre the way Tolkien did? No. Don't forget that sci-fi is also the daddy of modern Fantasy. The first book serves as a stand-alone story in the style of a traditional epic and a follows typical dramatic structure (the sequels... eh.). It reads well, and each chapter centers around a particular character or topic without feeling disjointed. You know the plot. Paul controls the spice and controls the universe.
* '''''Dune Messiah''''' - Detailing Paul's jihad and rule of the Imperium. While Dune is a story on its own, this sequel was hacked off of the first book when it became too long and turned into a sequel. If you at least agree that the first book was good, then problems start to show here but not by much.
* '''''Children of Dune''''' - Detailing the rise of Paul's children. The third book and the end of the first trilogy, except it and ''Messiah'' are half the length of ''Dune'' and ''God Emperor'' making it feel like the second book of a trilogy. Paul is gone and the story switches to his son Leto II as he struggles with the prescience powers he inherited from his father on the inside and everyone and their sister trying to get his place and/or influence him on the outside. This book reads like the main character is high and does not know where he is for most of the story (which is actually fine considering he's a 8 years old kid struggling with becoming almost omniscient and people trying to kill him, and he is both high and kidnapped), and it is disjointed enough that the reader feels the same (which is not, because a constant [[meme|"WTF am I reading?"]] feeling as one wrestles through the book makes for a poor reading experience).
* '''''God Emperor of Dune''''' - Leto II of the House of Atreides has fused with the last sandworm and become immortal in what is probably the most iconic thing outside of the first book. Disappointed in the mildness of his father's jihad, he creates the most oppressive regime that he can to tap into humanity's basest and darkest instincts so that a forced natural-ish selection can strengthen humanity to the point where it can never go extinct, followed by them scattering away from his empire and becoming completely decentralized throughout the universe. That is the 'Golden Path' thing. The entire book started off as a continuous monologue by the main character with the rest written in later and it shows. What were the characters actually doing again? Killing one another?
* '''''Heretics of Dune''''' - Humanity has scattered away from known space after being oppressed for so long, and no one thing can kill them now... maybe. ''God Emperor'' was actually the start of a trilogy centered around a girl named Sheeana and the clones (or gholas, because the cells started off dead) of Duncan Idaho. The Bene Gesserit take center stage and they and the reader must deal with their inability to be anything but clandestine antagonists.
* '''''Chapterhouse: Dune''''' - The Bene Gesserit make one of their primary planets into a new Dune because they need the spice to use their abilities. The Honored Matres, worse Bene Gesserit returned from the Scattering, have conquered pretty much everything with mind-control sex and regular violence. Can our heroes thwart them? No one knows, as Duncan calculates/foresees something that neither he or the readers know about and flies a ship off to who-knows-where, followed by Frank Herbert's death.

=== The others ===
* '''''Hunters of Dune''''' and '''''Sandworms of Dune''''' - Based on the rough draft for the unfinished ''Dune 7'', these two works function as a direct sequel to ''Chapterhouse: Dune''. If you really want the series to have an ending... this is what you get. Requires reading ''Legends of Dune''.
* Prelude to Dune series: A prequel series set right before the events of the first novel when all the adults from that book were the age that buys young adult novels. Not that bad, but all the villains are evil sadists and all the heroes are good people.
* Legends of Dune series: A prequel series that shows the Butlerian Jihad not as a conflict where religious Luddites win, but as a war where wargame-loving hacker teens take over mankind's servant robots and cause a robot war that overthrows the Old Empire on Earth and enslaves humanity. The League of Nobles (note that unlike the pages of justification for original Imperium, feudalism just seems to naturally happen at this point in human history) rallies around manufactured religious zealotry to eventually win at great cost.
* Heroes of Dune series: A series of interquels about this and that.

== The Movie ==
Alejandro Jodorowsky was slated to direct a film adaptation with set design from H.R. Giger, effects by Dan O'Bannon, music from Pink Floyd and Magma, and starring Salvador Dali, Orson Welles, David Carradine, and Mick Jagger, though sadly it ran out of money in pre-production (Giger and O'Bannon would go on to contribute to the production of ''Alien''). The David Lynch movie absolutely sucked (<s>saying this out loud is a good way to troll hipsters</s> Not really. Even Lynch knew it sucked, as evidenced by the fact he had his name removed from the final cut). If you want a good laugh I'd suggest you watch it -- it's not often that you'll see a fetal manatee shit/barf lasers. It's a classic case of Hollywood taking an amazing work of art and deciding "the audience" won't like it, so they got rid of the parts they didn't understand. If you've read the book, the butchery is even more <s>hilarious</s> <s>cringe-worthy</s> full of [[lulz]], though I suggest you don't watch the movie first. Who, after all, would want to read ''The Odyssey'' after seeing the movie? I'd suggest you see the movie as well, as it is also <s>''that bad''</s> awesome.

The Sci-Fi Channel produced two six-hour mini-series based on the first three books. Though low-budget (what did you expect from the Sci-Fi Channel?), they do manage to touch on each of the important plot points from those books and there's no skimping on the action to make "weirding module" toys to be sold as merchandise. Worth watching for what it is, and not ironically like the abortion above.

Denis Villeneuve of Arrival and Sicario fame is now slated to helm a new adaptation. Fingers crossed.

== As an RPG Setting ==
Frank Herbert went into SO MUCH DETAIL in his novels, you've got plenty of material to use as a campaign setting. You've got politics, fightan, more politics, space travel, enough politics to give Machiavelli a headache, and room for quasi-magic shit. Go nuts.

There was an official Dune RPG, "Chronicles of the Imperium," but it got mired in legal bullshit, [[WOTC|Wizards]] bought it out, did a 'Limited Edition' run of 3000 books, and then the high masters at Hasbro said "no more licensed property" and eighty-sixed the game so nobody would see it ever again. Assholes.

* [http://www.squaremans.com/?p=242 The only adventure module], unpublished even for an unpublished game.

Someone made a homebrew [[GURPS]] Dune splatbook which can be found [https://mega.nz/#!eBFhBTRJ!FMVGywUtRaO845ZxboOcplc3R0wwpxFx01LZtGMyTTk right here].

== The Games ==

The first video game adaptation of Dune was what can best be described as a Visual Novel mixed with a little Risk Boardgame. You play as Paul Atreides and it roughly follows the events of the original book. The goal is to recruit Fremen and eventually kick the Harkonnen from the planet. The videogame many oldfags remember fondly however is [http://www.mobygames.com/game/dune-ii-the-building-of-a-dynasty Dune 2], hailed as the first 'true' RTS game that got it right and paved the way for all the others. It's widely-accredited as putting Westwood on the map. While it was set in the universe, it did not actually take place during the time of the books, instead much earlier. It was remade in 1998 as part of a renovation attempt, and the resulting game, [http://www.mobygames.com/game/dune-2000 Dune 2000], was a fun if somewhat off-centered RTS boasting fairly decent balance and was great fun to play in multiplayer LAN games, but it was hindered by the fact that the bulk of its gameplay had been lifted from ''Command and Conquer - Tiberian Dawn'' and ''Red Alert'', creating a sort of hybrid that (justifiably in some cases) pissed off fans of both franchises. Then again, it had fucking [[The Lord of the Rings|Gimli]] as an Atreides Mentat, a kickass robo-Mentat that gets progressively more drugged out for the Ordos, and a good atmosphere and set design readily conscious of the curious, or least unique aspects of the Lynch film's asthetics, so even then it has some good qualities. It was quite clearly produced with love of the universe, and emphasized the game was taking place in an earlier time, so as not to fuck with the books' canon. Westwood later did one of the first 3D RTS's not soon after, ''Emperor - Battle for Dune''. Though the game ditched a standard campaign progression with the now familiar Risk-style campaign, it still had unique missions, and a unique campaign for all three sides. The well done story took off right after the events of the last game (namely, Padishah-Emperor Corrino is dead with no one to succeed him) and thus the Spacing Guild and the Sisters avert a civil war by holding that whichever House can win a limited War of Assassins on Arrakis will be crowned Padishah-Emperor of the Known Universe. Contains all sorts of surprising twists and turns (like everyone gloriously violating galactic law, and '''IT'S A T-gmphmmhmhhhhhhh!!!!'''), and the cinematics and cast were quite nicely done as well. Especially since it's live action. This would sadly be the last Dune video game.

There are three boardgames worth mentioning that were based on Dune. The first and best remembered is the 1979 Avalon Hill game made by the same guys that made [[Cosmic Encounter]]; it's one of the crown jewels of the Avalon Hill body of work. The game property was bought by Final Flight Games, but the owners of the Dune trademarks said "no," so FFG published the game using their [[Twilight Imperium]] setting as a prequel to that wargame. See more about both games at [[Rex: Final Days of an Empire]].
* [http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/121 BoardgameGeek link to the Avalon Hill game]
* [http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/104363 BoardgameGeek link to the FFG remake]

There was an trashy tie-in merchandise boardgame based on the David Lynch movie. Paper pasted on cardboard, roll-and-move race game, typical Ameritrash. The less said about that, the better.
* [http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/680 you don't want to know]

There is a free print-and-play game "Dune Express." You can use simple coloured dice, Skittles for your armies, and draw the map on the back of a pizza box, and yet it will still feel like great houses fighting over Arrakis. A decent beer-and-preztels game without being hurr durr dumb.
* [http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/42617 BoardgameGeek link to Dune Express]

[[category: Literature]]

Daemon

2018-10-21T19:50:53Z

2600:1700:BF90:B950:75CE:BB1F:9F44:62ED: /* Chart */

[[File:Daemon Medieval.jpg|thumb|right|400px|No, you are not mistaken, its ass is a face.]]
The word Daemon, or "''δαίμων ‎''", originated from Greek mythology, and was the term for spirits of nature and, well, anything but the Olympian gods. It wasn't a negative term at all, but rather a term that described creatures other than humans and animals, but as they often had ethics that was just as alien, they could seem malevolent at times. In Roman mythology, the term evolved to describe two guardian spirits who all people had attached to them, one benevolent and one malevolent. In /tg/ culture, daemon occasionally pops up as an alternative to "demon" or "devil" as the terminology for the fiendish races. The most iconic example of Daemons on /tg/ are those from the Warhammer settings.

==Dungeons & Dragons and Pathfinder==
[[Dungeons & Dragons]] has long used the term Daemon to refer to their Neutral Evil fiendish race, in contrast to the Lawful Evil Devils and the Chaotic Evil Demons. With the notorious anti-Satanic panic, daemons were renamed as [[Yugoloth]]s in the [[Planescape]] setting, much as devils and demons became [[Baatezu]] and [[Tanar'ri]], respectively. See the [[Yugoloth]] page for more details.

In [[Pathfinder]], daemons are again the Neutral Evil fiendish race, because yugoloths aren't in the OGL. Born from the souls of Neutral Evil mortals, each breed of daemon embodies a specific kind of death, in comparison to the sin-born demons. For example, hydrodaemons represent death by drowning, whilst thanatodaemons represent death by old age. Answering to the four archdaemons, styled after the Horsemen of the Apocalypse - that is, Famine, War, Pestilence and Death - they hearken back to older descriptions of Neutral Evil in that they ''hate'' life itself. In the Pathfinder setting's closest equivalent to the [[Blood War]], daemons seek to annihilate all life, trying to sweep the multiverse clean of all life other than daemonkind. Once they have achieved that goal, they will then turn on each other, fighting to the death until only one daemon remains in existence. That daemon will take a moment to savor the emptiness of existence... and then commit suicide. They hate life that much.

[[Category: Dungeons & Dragons]]

==Infernum==
In the D20 game [[Infernum]] by Mongoose Publishing, Daemon is the highest of the "common" titles, the furthest rank a hellspawn can achieve without becoming a noble of some description. It is awarded only to hellspawn who prove themselves true masters in a particular field of expertise - combat, diplomacy, spying, etcetera - and usually requires formal duels between would-be contestants under the eye of a local Captain. Ascending to the rank of Daemon awards a hellspawn with 2000 bonus experience points and grants them their first Noble Mutation.

==Warhammer==
{{heresy}}

{{Topquote|Only a fool trusts a Daemon. They are made of the very stuff of change, the raw madness of the Warp made manifest. However, like men, Daemons are creatures of greed, pride, and arrogance, and these are things I trust completely.|[[Abaddon]] the Despoiler, either being pretty awesome or talking complete bullshit depending on your point of view}}

[[File:M3060166a 2xl.jpg|500px|thumb|right|Just remember that the next time you rage at your mates for [[That Guy|being a douche]] or something, you're indirectly creating one of these.]]

'''Daemons''' are powerful beings, neither real nor unreal, which do not obey the laws of physics; indeed, their very existence is a warping of reality. They reside within the [[Warp|Realm of Chaos]], and usually are organized into groups obeying the rule of [[Chaos Gods]].

According to wikifags over at the official 40k Wiki, daemons can be created from one of the four Ruinous Powers through a process that's kind of similar to mitosis (except really REALLY unbalanced); a Chaos God splits off a tiny fraction of their own will, essence, and power, and in doing so creates a new daemon that is essentially an extension of whatever Chaos God made it. It's worth noting that the Gods can also use the souls of deceased individuals who died under specific circumstances to forge new daemons, and given the [[Grimdark|general shitfuckery that goes on in the galaxy that results in hundreds of thousands dying on a daily basis]], this particular process of daemon spawning is typically more popular. Anyway, these newborn critters then invade the real world, buttfuck anyone they can get their horny claws on (even other [[Dark Eldar|rapists]]), and the resulting torrent of chaotic emotions that come from being violently buttfucked by a walking pile of Warp energy feed the Chaos Gods, causing their power to grow and allowing even more daemons to be born (that's right; no matter how many morning-after pills you take, a baby is guaranteed to pop out of someone, somewhere, sooner or later as a result of your fatal defilement). Hopefully now you're starting to realise how utterly ROFLSCREWED the many unfortunate races of the Milky Way are; [[Wat|simply ''seeing'' these assholes and getting scared by them essentially gives their gods the power to make ''even more'' of these assholes]]. <s>So man the fuck up, otherwise you're indirectly responsible for giving birth to these dudes</s> nope, sorry, not even growing a manly-ass pair is gonna save you from the guilt of making more daemons, since the bravery and fearlessness you feel will feed [[Khorne]] in particular and allow him to spawn a bunch of new [[Bloodletter|horny penis-heads with sharp swords]]. For fuck's sake.

As I said; ROFLSCREWED. The only way to rid the galaxy of this Heresy-given-physical-form would probably be to kill off every single sentient living thing in the galaxy that has a presence in the Warp ([[Halo]] array, anyone?), thus 'starving' the Chaos Gods of their juicy succulent thirst-quenching emotions. Except the process of killing every poor sod off like that will only feed the Ruinous Powers ''even more'', probably to the point where they become so powerful they could tear the galaxy multiple [[Eye of Terror|new ones]] at the click of their fingers.

But wait, it doesn't stop there. Daemons are functionally immortal in that even if their physical forms are destroyed in real space, their essence will return back into the Warp/RoC where they will be ready to wreak havoc once they have another opportunity to go back, unless there are special circumstances preventing them from doing so such as being trapped in an object (such as a Tesseract Labyrinth or enchanted item), or special incantations that imprison it. It ''is'' however also possible to give a daemon a "true death" in that it is permanently erased from existence, but this normally requires some incredibly rare artifact, absurdly complicated rituals, or a psyker/wizard of immense power (after all, by truly killing a daemon, you are in essence killing a tiny fraction of one of the Chaos Gods, so of course it'd be hard as fuck).

Lesser daemons like [[Bloodletter]]s can normally be banished back by a proper bashing with a mace or a few dozen shots from a lasgun, or with a simple chant of a certain scripture that daemons fear. Greater Daemons, like a [[Bloodthirster]] or [[Great Unclean One]], will normally either require ''extremely'' powerful dakka the size of [[Baneblade|Baneblades]] or in Fantasy, mass-stabbing from spears, cannon balls, the intervention of the [[Daemonhunters]] and similar specialists. They are also [[FAIL|vulnerable]] to anyone an author wants to make [[Mary Sue|look cool]], resulting in approximately nine thousand two hundred and seventy-three Bloodthirsters being cruelly slain per novel written. Banishing Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes from real space for a long time often requires rituals which involve uttering the daemon's true name, which is a secret to begin with, almost always unpronounceable for a human, long enough to take minutes to utter, and can have nasty spells (like ones that fill your lungs with molten brimstone) included into them - and all this must happen while said angry daemon does his best to slaughter the ritual's participants.

It should be noted that even though the word "Daemon" is their widely accepted name by the mortal races, it is not necessarily the name they call themselves. One daemon in 40k even remarks that it is merely a name given to them by mortals (generally humans) due to its satanic origin (even if it technically has a more neutral, Greek origin, but scratch that, current fluff writers aren't the authors of the RoC and just because it's a daemon doesn't mean it knows jack shit about history). In conversations with mortals they actually like or at least tolerate, daemons often call themselves "Neverborn", and many Chaos worshippers prefer to use this term.

===[[Warhammer Fantasy]]===
In Fantasy they are made of [[Warhammer Magic|magic]], the source of (most) of which is the Realm of Chaos, and feed upon/inspire certain emotions in mortal beings. Thanks to the magical nature of the world, Daemons have little trouble manifesting within the world if they can find entrance to it. Indeed, any place that the Winds of Magic linger for too long can create Daemons of various kinds which will usually haul themselves towards the nearest place living (usually sapient) beings are found and wreak havoc, and after being "slain" find themselves within the Realm of Chaos for the first time. They can possess hosts, although the weak mortal frames limit their power and usually this is only done to commit acts of mischief.

===[[Warhammer 40,000]]===
In [[Warhammer 40,000]] they are manifestations of the psychic emotions of psychically powerful species and individuals, like [[humanity]] and [[Eldar]]. They reside in the chaotic and hellish psychic dimension known as the Warp.
Daemons can only enter realspace under certain conditions, like being summoned in a ceremony or crossing through a warp rift. Even then, because they are made of warp energy and solidified emotion, they don't last long outside of the Warp, so in order to stick around, they have to either drag the Warp into realspace (resulting in a [[Daemon World]] in extreme circumstances) or be bound in a host. [[Psykers]] are the preferred choice of host, especially the powerful and uncontrolled ones, and they also happen to be a favourite method of opening [[Warp]] rifts -- their powers make them shine in the Warp, which attracts daemons like moths to a flame; all the daemons have to do is wait for the psyker's control to falter, and move in to take possession.
Sometimes, [[Heresy|stupid people]] try to become a daemon, often a cult committing mass suicide, in order for their souls to fuse, much like what the Emperor did, but instead of reincarnating (since they can't), their souls will then join and become a daemon, because of their chaotic natures. Since souls are not sentient, someone's soul is not him, [[FAIL|and it doesn't count as immortality]]. Daemon-Prince-hood however does, but you will suffer an eternity of Derp from Games Workshop.

===Types===
Ever since the ancient Realms of Chaos sourcebooks, daemons have been divided into three groups: Greater Daemons, Lesser Daemons, and Daemonic Creatures.

==== Greater Daemons ====
Greater Daemons are the most powerful of the Chaos God's immortal servants, and it's Very Bad News when they arrive in the real world. They are also the most difficult to banish, as they inevitably have tremendously long names, not to mention enough power to give any would-be banishers a hard time. Fortunately for those living in realspace, Greater Daemons are also the most difficult to summon: they require great sacrifices and elaborate ceremonies to even enter the real world, and will not last long without continued exposure to [[Warp]] energy. Unfortunately, where Greater Daemons go, hordes of lesser daemons inevitably follow. Greater Daemons are capable of independent thought and are highly intelligent, though this intelligence is heavily influenced by the emotions that form them. However, old fluff (the Realm of Chaos 5th edition army book from [[Warhammer Fantasy Battle|WFB]]) claimed they do not actually have a true personality or even a consciousness-they were simply hollow husks who did [[just as planned|their master's bidding]] and are merely extensions of their god's presence. Any Daemon with a sort of will of their own was instead a [[Daemon Prince]]. This is no longer canon, as former Daemon Princes are now Greater Daemons. Some Greater Daemons are in fact mortals who were particularly revered by their chosen god (barring [[Dechala]], who was just Slaanesh being a troll). Greater Daemons are also stated to have their own goals independent of their Chaos God, usually by just not advancing any greater goal but at times can even be a hindrance to the greater plans of Chaos; this is always met with forgiveness, as any punishment from a Chaos God is ridiculously rare for any Daemonic being (to date the only intentional punishments have been two Daemonettes who disobeyed Slaanesh, and one Greater Daemon who quite literally declared war on Khorne himself). Some players from either game have used this to justify more..."interesting" Daemon armies, such as the [[Carnival of Chaos]] or towns which have been taken over by Daemons.

Khorne's Greater Daemons are [[Bloodthirster]]s, giant axe-wielding warriors with massive leather wings. They are [[Angry Marines|always angry, all the time]]. There are eight hosts of Bloodthirster, each of the eight possess their own lethal skills, armaments and title. Those of the eighth host, for example, are known as Bloodthirsters of Unfettered Fury. These monstrous beings are skilled if unsubtle generals and, armed with their infamous
combination of axe and whip, are most often seen commanding Khorne’s daemonic legions in their attacks on realspace. By comparison, those of the sixth rank, known as Bloodthirsters of Insensate Rage, are berserk destroyers who wield immense axes as tall as a fortress gate. Nothing can stand before such terrors on the battlefield, and the Daemons of Khorne are drawn instinctively on in the wake of their furnace-hot fury. The infamous Bloodthirsters of the third host, meanwhile, are known as the Wrath of Khorne. These beings are fire-breathing braggarts, hunters after glory who delight in humbling the mightiest heroes of the foe and butchering them in the name of their bloody lord.

Slaanesh's Greater Daemons are [[Keeper of Secrets|Keepers of Secrets]], each carefully formed to tempt their foes and each looking to experience as many sensations as possible. Their appearance depends on <s>Slaanesh's mood</s> GW's policy at the time of creating them.

Nurgle's Greater Daemons are [[Great Unclean One]]s, whose joviality is infectious...literally. They are so plague-ridden that they excrete daemons from every available opening. Mmm, is that [[Grimdark]] enough for you?

Tzeentch's Greater Daemons are [[Lord of Change|Lords of Change]], bird-like sorcerer daemons capable of predicting the future. They like to make [[Just as planned|plans]].

Malal's Greater Daemons are "Guardian of Contradictions", looking like giant daemon goats with a woman's head for a tail (wtf). So far they are the closest interpretation we can get on what they actually look like. The name is only fanwankery based on concept art by [[Tony Ackland]] for Malal's Daemons which was never made into models.

Great Horned Rat's Greater Daemons are [[Verminlord]]s, miniature versions of himself which represent his values (all of which are simply acting like a massive asshole) as well as the values of the Skaven clans (e.g. killing, defiling, killing, proliferating and killing).

Like the Heralds, which are Exalted Lesser Daemons, there are also Exalted Greater Daemons (Exalted Bloodthirster, Exalted Lord of Change, Exalted Great Unclean One, Exalted Keeper of Secrets, and Exalted Verminlord.) They are usable in [[Storm of Magic]] as Bound Monsters - creatures summoned through the Warp and binded to their summoners through Bound Scrolls. That doesn't stop them from NOMMING their masters given the chance, though.

In 40K, only the Exalted Bloodthirsters are mentioned. Eight of them belonged to the First Host and answer only to Khorne. Each of them commands eight Bloodthirsters of the second host, each of the second host commands eight of the third host, and so on.

==== Lesser Daemons ====
The lesser daemons are the most common sort, and serve as the foot soldiers for the legions of [[Chaos]]. Each one is roughly on par with a couple of [[Empire]] soldiers in [[Warhammer Fantasy Battle]] (generally stronger in close combat, but mostly lacking ranged attacks), or a [[Space Marine]]/[[Imperial Guard]] stormtrooper in [[Warhammer 40,000]]; they form the Core of a [[Warhammer Fantasy Battle]] Daemons of Chaos army, and the Troops of a [[Warhammer 40,000]] Chaos Daemons army.

It's worth noting that the canon for many of the Daemons was changed by [[Phil Kelly|this fucker]]. The entire nature of the Daemons in general was mutated in his WH40K Daemon codex, and arguably not for the better. Whilst Bloodletters and Screamers are largely unchanged, Daemonettes were changed in both fluff and function (originally they were engineered by Slaanesh from [[Eldar]] souls to be both seductive AND deadly in combat, although they remain so in Fantasy) and Nurgle Daemons were changed dramatically (as was Nurgle's Rot, which changed from a survivable-if-formidable daemon-pox to a daemon-spawned [[AIDS]] with no cure that makes eventually makes you a Plaguebearer <s>no matter what</s> unless you commit suicide or die before you start worshipping Nurgle, which makes about as much sense as [[Wat|this]], but whatever).

[[Khorne]]'s lesser daemons are [[Bloodletter]]s. They are disciplined as they march to battle, but they tear into enemies like nobody's business on the charge. They take skulls for the skull throne. Like Daemonettes, they underwent a significant model change for one edition, then went back to their old appearance but revamped to higher quality.

[[Slaanesh]]'s lesser daemons are the [[Daemonette]]s (though they are not all female all the time, despite what the name might suggest). They can take whatever form is required to beguile their foes as they close in for the kill, though some browsers of [[/tg/]] like them just the way they usually are. Their models have varied over the years from somewhat attractive bald sharp-toothed humanoids to six-titted graylings (you'll learn very quickly that Slaanesh has a rather noticeable tit fetish, as well as every other fetish out there, most likely).

[[Nurgle]]'s lesser daemons are [[Plaguebearer|Plaguebearers]]. They are generally stoic creatures who are born from the souls of people who died of [[Nurgle|Nurgle's Rot]]. Their models have pretty much never changed, always being swollen-gutted decaying horned cyclops things. Yum.

[[Tzeentch]]'s lesser daemons are [[Horror]]s. They start out pink-colored, hyperactive and batshit insane, and when they are destroyed, they split into two blue horrors which are morose and cynical little bastards. Their models started out as oversized heads with long spindly arms and legs, but they underwent a design change into big-mouthed tangles of tentacles and arms and have stayed like that pretty much ever since.

[[Malal]]'s lesser daemons are Hook Horrors, which are once again just concept art made by Ackland for Games Workshop. They have two hook claws (hence the name) but overall they look like a cheap Halloween costume that resembles an anorexic crow whose head has been reduced to a bird-like skull.

The Chaos Gods of Order (who only existed in Warhammer Fantasy) lacked proper Daemons. One among them, [[Solkan the Avenger]], blessed mortal [[Witch Hunters]] to wage war against his Chaotic Chaos kin in the physical world instead.

[[Fury|Furies]] can be thought of as lesser daemons of [[Chaos Undivided]], although "Chaos Undecided" might be a more accurate description -- they served the Gods of Chaos, but did not devote themselves strongly to any one before dying.

==== Daemonic Creatures ====
Daemonic servants and creatures can be more powerful than lesser daemons, but are generally less intelligent. Some, classified as daemonic ''steeds'', may be ridden or otherwise directed by a suitably impressive lesser daemon, or even a lucky mortal servant, while others, classified as daemonic ''beasts'', are simply turned loose on the enemy and left to their own devices.

Khorne's daemonic steeds are [[Juggernaut|Juggernauts]], metal-skinned dog/rhino/lizard-creatures with molten blood, and his beasts are the [[Flesh Hound|Flesh Hounds]] (calling them "Khorne Dogs" earns your skull a place under Khorne's ass) which are sent to hunt Khorne's enemies (including his own servants, if they displease him). Bloodletters who managed to tame and ride Juggernauts are called "[[Bloodcrushers_of_Khorne|Bloodcrushers]]." Flesh Hounds are also used as mounts, although mostly by mortals like [[Arbaal]].

Slaanesh's daemonic steeds are "[[Steeds of Slaanesh]]" (which has ''got'' to be a sex pun), and his/her beasts are called [[Fiends of Slaanesh]]. Daemonettes who ride Mounts of Slaanesh are called "Seekers." Both Fiends and Mounts feature body parts from lots of creatures, and have long tongues (all the better to 'taste' their prey, if you know what we mean...) and rows of human breasts (there's that tit fetish again).

Nurgle's daemonic steeds are "Palanquins of Nurgle" (it's a sedan chair towed by [[Nurgling]]s) and his beasts are the uncreatively named [[Beast of Nurgle|Beasts of Nurgle]]. You MUST play with them, otherwise they get bitter and become something else called Rot Flies, which are, who would have guessed, giant rotting flies with spear-sized stings. [[Storm of Magic|Two]] [[Tamurkhan: Throne of Chaos|splatbooks]] claim Nurgle has another (technically third, if one counts the aforementioned Rot Flies and Beast of Nurgle as being the same) daemonic creature in the form of the [[Plague Toads]], huge diseased frog-things that can swallow humans whole and which all other Nurgle daemons look down on. The second even claims that there's a counterpart to Plague Drones in the form of "Pox Riders", which are Plaguebearers clinging to Plague Toads as they hop into battle.

Tzeentch's daemonic steeds are [[Screamers of Tzeentch|Screamers]], giant manta rays that are called "Discs of Tzeentch" as when someone is riding them, Screamers somehow transform into discs. Needless to say, it's not pleasant for the Screamer. His beasts are called [[Flamers of Tzeentch|Flamers]] (not to be confused with the [[flamer]] weapon), since they look like they are made of fire.

Malal's daemon steeds are "Limbo-Ticks of the Anti-God" and his beasts are "Malal's Paradoxes of Pandemonium", both of which resembles every single arachnophobe's worst nightmare. The latter is usually colored black, grey and white like all things Malal-ish and have a fuckhuge maw meant for potential OMNOMNOMNOM with two sickle like claws to boot, while the former has the body of a giant louse with monkey like limbs and a giant human-like skull with a equally giant horn on it. Like the others, this is just /tg/'s name for Ackland's artwork.

====Daemons of Order====
While [[Chaos Gods of Law]] existed in earlier editions of Warhammer Fantasy, none were ever given Daemons. This changed with [[Age of Sigmar]] when the entire [[Lizardmen]] army were refluffed as "Seraphon" which have light magic running through their veins which is as corrupting to Chaos as Chaos is to mortals; Saurus blood can cleanse any of Nurgle's plagues, rots, and diseases, and the Slann are stated to be ahead of their enemies (which includes Tzeentch) in planning thanks to their scrying caste.
[[Sigmar]] also created the [[Sigmarines|<strike>Sigmarines</strike> Stormcast Eternals]] which are mortals forged in magical metal who have the same properties as Daemons.

===Chart===
Not every god fills every slot, but a couple mortal equivalents are listed in parenthesis. Also note [[Fury|Furies]] are so pathetic they don't even get to be on the chart.
<center>
{|border=1 cellpadding=5 cellspacing=0
|- align=left
! [[Chaos Gods]]
! [[Greater Daemon]]s
! [[Daemon#Lesser Daemons|Lesser Daemons]]
! Daemonic Servants
! Daemonic Beasts
! Daemonic Steeds
! Mounted
! Chariots
|-
| [[Khorne]] || [[Bloodthirster]] || [[Bloodletter]] || None || [[Flesh Hound]] || [[Juggernaut]] || [[Bloodcrushers of Khorne|Bloodcrusher]] || [[Blood Throne]]/[[Skull Cannon]]
|-
| [[Nurgle]] || [[Great Unclean One]] || [[Plaguebearer]] || [[Nurgling]] || [[Beast of Nurgle]]/[[Plague Toads]] || [[Battle Fly]]/[[Rot Fly]] || [[Plague Drones]]/[[Pox Riders]] || [[Palanquin of Nurgle]]
|-
| [[Slaanesh]] || [[Keeper of Secrets]] || [[Daemonette]] || None || [[Fiends of Slaanesh|Fiend]] || [[Steeds of Slaanesh]] || [[Seekers of Slaanesh]] || [[Seeker Chariots of Slaanesh|Seeker Chariot]]/[[Hellflayer Chariots of Slaanesh|Hellflayer]]
|-
| [[Tzeentch]] || [[Lord of Change]] || [[Horror]]/[[Flamers of Tzeentch|Flamer]] || None || [[Screamers of Tzeentch|Screamer]]/[[Mutalith Vortex Beast]] || [[Disc of Tzeentch]] || None || [[Burning Chariots of Tzeentch|Burning Chariot]]
|-
| [[Malal]] || [[Forces of Malal#Guardian of Contradictions|Guardian of Contradictions]]/[[Forces of Malal#Maidens of Malal|Maiden of Malal]] || [[Forces of Malal#Hook Horror|Hook Horror]] || None || [[Forces of Malal#Pandemonic Paradox of Malal|Paradoxes]] || [[Forces of Malal#Limbo-Ticks of the Anti-God|Limbo-Ticks]]/[[Forces of Malal#Nightmares|Nightmares]] || [[Forces of Malal#Parasite Riders|Parasite Riders]] || None
|-
| [[Great Horned Rat]] || [[Verminlord]] || None (Skaven) || None (Skaven) || None (Giant rats) || None || None || None ([[DOOMWHEELS]])
|-
| [[God-Emperor of Mankind]] || [[Living Saint]]/[[Primarch]] || [[Legion of the Damned|Damned Legionnaire]] || None (Imperial Guard) || None (Abhumans) || None (Horses) || None ([[Attilan Rough Riders]]) || None ([[Logan Grimnar|Stormrider]])
|}
</center>

=== [[Daemon Prince|Daemon Princes]] ===

For those mortals unfortunate enough to not be daemons to begin with, there is another route to immortality: serve a [[Chaos Gods|Chaos God]] and impress him or her so much that they grant the gift of daemonhood, resulting in an ascension into a [[Daemon Prince]]. In terms of power, they are typically only second to greater daemons, but a few especially strong mortal followers of chaos (traitor primarchs being the most famous) become more powerful than most greater daemons upon ascending. This is the ultimate goal of [[PC]]s in the [[Black Crusade]] roleplaying game, and indeed most worshipers of [[Chaos]] with even an ounce of ambition. Unfortunately, the Gods' attentions are fickle; would-be Daemon Princes who fall short of expectations may find themselves transformed into [[Chaos Spawn]] for their failures... Did I just...well...fuck... '''GLARBLRAWRGLARBL'''

Also, among followers of chaos, there are those who know that in the warp, the souls of dead men and women are actually devoured by the [[Chaos Gods]]; many of them actively try to escape this fate ([[Rape]]) by becoming Demon Princes.

===Exalted Daemon===

A sadly short-lived concept, '''Exalted Daemons''' were introduced in the [[Hordes of Chaos]] army book for [[Warhammer Fantasy Battles]], and can be seen as the "[[Chaos]]-Loyal" analogue to the [[Daemonhost]], or alternatively a Fantasy based, character tier version of the [[Possessed]]. Exalted Daemons are [[Chaos Champion]]s who haven't earned the moxie to be turned into Daemon Princes, but have earned special attention, which results in a Daemon possessing and merging with their body. Attendant fluff implies that, unlike conventional possession victims, Exalted Daemons are fusions of mortal and daemonic soul, with the original inhabitant still being conscious and having some influence, rather than dead or pushed aside.

Mechanically, Exalted Daemons were essentially lower-grade Daemon Princes, using up two Hero choices instead of that editions 1 Lord choice + 1 Hero choice. They had one less point in Weapon Skill, Wounds, Initiative and Leadership than the big Daemon Princes, but the same ability to Fly, cause Terror, bear a Mark Of Chaos, and a Unit Strength of 5. They could be Sorcerers, maxing out at level 2, and wield up to 50 points of Daemonic Gifts.

=== Daemon Engines ===

Some daemons can be combined with machinery to create mighty [[Daemon Engine]]s; this gives them some actual structural integrity and lasting power, as they are now firmly anchored in reality. The really big ones are made by the Forge of Souls, while others are made by [[Warpsmiths]].
Some Daemon Engines are aligned with one of the Chaos Gods, while others (like [[Defiler]]s and Soul Grinders) serve [[Chaos Undivided]].
Even WFB has these in the forms of the Skull Cannon, Blood Throne, and Burning Chariot (and arguably the Hellflayer Seeker Chariot, even if it is not possessed), which are like [[awesome|possessed war machines mounted on top of possessed chariots]] as well as the Soul Grinder (which exists in 40k as well, though it only has a stone thrower arm rather than cannons everywhere).
Now that [[Chaos Dwarves]] are back as a regular WFB army, albeit made entirely by [[Forgeworld]], they seems to be rather fond of Daemon Engines and pack a whole lot of them, including a [[Awesome|daemon-possessed, steam-powered train which carries other war machines all around the battlefield while firing its giant cannon/crashing into the enemy lines mauling people with giant-sized pickaxes]].

=== Half-Daemons ===
A handful of characters called or calling themselves half-Daemon have existed in both settings throughout the years (as well as [[Blood Bowl]] of course where the non-footbal rules are made up on the spot and never adhered to). Generally speaking these are from old or iffy lore sources, but one recent character does exist. For the [[End Times]] <strike>clusterfuck</strike> <strike>abortion</strike> <strike>monkey's paw result</strike> event a large kit of the Maggot Riders who ride giant maggots called [[Pox Maggots]] and serve Nurgle were released. One of the three riders was named [[Orghotts Daemonspew]] the "Bastard King of Icehorn Peak". His mother was a mortal witch (in the more classic sense of the word) and his father was a Great Unclean One (have fun imagining it). Icehorn exists on the rim between reality and the Warp, where Daemons are as much the people of the land as humans. Orghotts has an extremely long lifespan thanks to his half-Daemon nature, and longs to actually physically reach Nurgle's Garden which appears to him sometimes in his kingdom. He leads Daemon and Chaos human armies across the world, seeking not to become a Daemon Prince but be blessed by Nurgle into becoming a full-fledged Daemon alongside his father. The diseases produced within his own body have killed more than the armies he's lead, and beings connected to Nurgle know by smell that he's one of the "royal family" so to speak.

===True Names===
Daemons tend to hide their true names by giving themselves false ones. This is due to the fact that they can be banished if their true name should ever be uttered. The downside about true names is that all true names are quite a mouthful. Daemons' true names are very hard to pronounce if you aren't well a trained [[psyker]] like a [[Librarian]] or a full-fledged [[Inquisitor]], and can actually make your throat sore. There was even one instance that uttering their true names can actually make your mouth literally burn. Some ridiculously powerful daemons, especially those of [[Tzeentch]], have incredibly long names. One, recorded in the books of the [[Grey Knights]], had a ten-minute long true name and quite a few Knights died attempting to perform the banishment rituals... though once they got to reciting it, there apparently wasn't much it could do to stop them.

==="Daemons" of the Emperor===
It has been speculated by some both within the Imperium and by those outside of it that the nature of beings such as Living Saints, the Legion of the Damned and the [[Sanguinor]] might lie closer to the servants of the Chaos Gods than most would feel comfortable with. They are likely made of the same warp-stuff as traditional Daemons and both appear and disappear in the same manner, though seemingly of either their own power or that of the Emperor's, usually to assist struggling Imperial forces. Further evidence for this is presented during the fall of [[Cadia]], for when the Cadian Pylons briefly were brought fully online, the Legion forces present dissipated with the rest of the Daemons and [[Saint Celestine]] had much of her power suppressed. It serves as another piece of fairly solid proof that the Emperor is on the verge of godhood, if he isn't one already.

Of course, to even consider any of the above is tantamount to HERESY of the worst sort, so it's best to just go along with it.

===See Also===
*[[Chaos]]
*[[Chaos Gods]]
*[[Warhammer/Tactics/Daemons of Chaos]]
*[[Warhammer 40,000/Tactics/Chaos Daemons(8E)]]
*[[Daemons Mod]]: The [[Dawn of War]] [[Dawn of War Mods|Mod]] that brings this army to DoW players.

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[[Category:Age of Sigmar]]