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Dagger

2019-12-14T10:10:33Z

2601:1C0:5C00:C130:5C44:4B00:823C:43A:

A '''Dagger''' is a small bladed weapon less than 30 centimeters long. For sake of simplicity, this will also cover various knives which serve the same role, though strictly speaking, a dagger is a knife designed primarily for thrusting.

== Daggers in Warfare ==
Most daggers are effectively (Suppose to be) scaled down [[sword]]s, sacrificing reach for light weight and ease of carry and storage. As such, while they can slash, they are mostly used for stabbing. Like swords, both straight and curved as well as double edged and single edged daggers existed.

For the most part, the main use of daggers was as a fallback weapon for soldiers in case they lost their heavier sword, maces, spears or whatever and as a concealed weapon for defensive (if you are fearing a mugging or an assassin) or offensive (you are a mugger or an assassin) purposes. In late medieval a dagger was also the go-to weapon for finishing heavily-armored opponents once you incapacitated them with some other weapon, as a thin and short blade was ideal for shoving through a visor or other gap in the armor. As a nice bonus, they were also small enough to be used as a regular knife for when you have to cut some potatoes for dinner and other such things.

However: That is what a dagger is suppose to be, the exact legal definitions of a dagger are often different and in europe the difference between dagger and sword was often in the hilt construction. This produced some odd examples of weapons that while they look like 'swords' are 'legally' daggers. The most blatant example being the holder for the guinness world record for longest dagger, which is 91.50 centimeters long, and yet is still considered a dagger.
== Types of Daggers ==
*'''Stone Daggers''': Unlike swords, you could make a serviceable dagger out of stones which could take an edge like flint, which could be chipped away into that shape. These are commonly found in neolithic burial sites.
**'''Obsidian Dagger''': Made of volcanic glass, these daggers were extra sharp but extra brittle as well. Fun fact- some of them had monomolecular edges, as confirmed by observing the blades under electron microscopes.
*'''Pugio''': A leaf shaped dagger used by Roman Legionaries.
*'''Stiletto''': Much like the shoe that got its name from it, the stiletto has a needle-esque blade designed for stabbing with as little resistance as possible. The blade is typically thin yet hard, which allows it to puncture flesh with ease while slipping through gaps in bone. Its small size and killing power made it a popular choice for assassins back then and today. Its drawback, however, is that it is designed exclusively for stabbing. The blade's design did not allow it to effectively cut opponents with slashes, restricting the user to stabs, and the blade's thin and hard characteristic made it very likely to shatter when struck with a hard object.
*'''Bayonet''': A bayonet is a type of knife meant to be mounted onto the muzzle of a firearm, typically a rifle or carbine, so that a soldier can use their firearm as a makeshift spear in close combat. Bayonets themselves evolved over time alongside firearms:
:*'''Plug Bayonet''': One of the earliest bayonets simply plugged into the muzzle of a musket, making it impossible to fire and stab at the same time, basically rendering the weapon useless outside of melee range. This was quickly superseded by...
:*'''Socket Bayonet''': This came with a ring to fit around the muzzle, allowing it to be attached without blocking the muzzle.
:*'''Sword Bayonet''': Like the name suggests, this was a short sword that attached to the end of a rifle. Besides being more useful on its own in melee, a sword bayonet extended a rifle's striking range and was useful during WWI when soldiers began wearing thick coats and gear, allowing soldiers to penetrate all those extra layers. At least, when they didn't have to worry about manuevering in cramped trenches, in which case that extra length became a liability. That lead to...
:*'''Multipurpose Bayonet''': With melee weapons eventually growing obsolete, the only regularly issued bladed weapon to soldiers is what is essentially a utility knife that can be attached to your rifle. Bayonet charges may be a thing of the past, but these knives are still quite handy, whether in a close quarters fight or for general survival and tool use. And while melee is a crapshoot with automatic weapons and shotguns being a thing, it is better to have at least something to use there.
*'''Machete''': A large, cleaver-like knife around 30-40cm. It was first employed by the Spaniards, who used it for cutting undergrowth and heathen swine during their expeditions into jungles. It is still used for these purposes in Latin America and parts of Africa, and has also been repurposed as a weapon by various militias and guerrilla forces.
*'''Kukri''': A kukri knife is a Nepalese large knife, similar to the machete in size and use. The difference, however, is that it possesses a heavy, curved blade that removes the need to angle one's wrist when performing a chopping motion and was designed with usage as a weapon in mind.
*'''Misericorde''': A long, thin dagger built specifically for use against plate armored soldiers, its name comes from the Latin word ''misericordia'', meaning an act of mercy, and that's what it was used for. In the Medieval age if you suffered a mortal wound you were likely gonna take a while to die, a knight with this weapon would jam this blade through openings in the plate, such as the armpit or visor, or groin to finish them off. Of course you could also use it on a still "kicking" knight and use it to encourage them to yield or beg for mercy.
*'''Bollock Dagger''': One of the most common daggers in England, Scandinavia, Scotland and the Low Countries, this was a standard dagger blade, single or double edged, with a hilt that (you guessed it) looked like a pair of balls. Called Kidney Daggers by Victorians because they were prudes. These were used from the 13th century right into the Enlightenment across all social classes, and varied from extremely fancy to very basic.
*'''Baselard''': A long dagger or short sword with a distinctive L or H shaped hilt, popular in Western Europe from the 14th century to the Renaissance. Often used by criminals, meaning it had negative connotations.
*'''Katar''': An unusual form of dagger from India with an H-shaped hilt that cause the blade to sit above the user's knuckles, allowing its user to put his whole weight into the thrust (or punch, as the motion for a thrust with this weapon is identical to punching). Its light weight and small size made it easy to wield in pairs, but it can't block very well, forcing the wielder to rely on their agility to avoid being struck in the first place. Closely related to it is the push dagger, which is smaller and posses a T-shaped hilt so the blade protrudes from between the user's fingers when correctly grasped.
**For those looking to add some [[dakka]] to their stabby, there's also the gun-katar. The gun-katar was similar to the regular katar, except the two supports holding the dagger in place were replaced by a pair of flintlock pistols that could be fired by internal lever. The main surviving example was a showpiece for the British Raj, but this is arguably the most ergonomic option for those desiring a gunblade. Of course, it's still an incredibly impractical weapon that isn't as effective as just using either katars or a pair of pistols.
**Despite being a knife, katars can be quite large. Versions used to hunt tigers can be three feet (one meter) long.
*'''Parrying dagger''': This type of dagger (also known as the main gauche) was meant to be used alongside a rapier or other dueling sword, and as such had wider guards to protect the user's hand while allowing him to parry strikes with his off-hand more effectively. Some variations known as "sword breakers" had slots along their sides that allowed them to catch a rival's sword or even break it in some cases, while the so-called "trident daggers" had spring-loaded mechanisms that would split the blade into three parts when activated to catch an opponent's blade between them.
** '''Sai/Jitte''': Asiatic versions of the above. The Sai is a small trident, formed of a central blade (or baton) with two prongs to catch and deflect other weapons. The Jitte is a similar Japanese weapon with only a single prong, that served as mark of office for police officers in feudal Japan.
*'''Dirk''': A long thrusting dagger commonly used by naval officers in hand-to-hand combat during the Age of Sail, the name "dirk" is also used to refer to the ''Sgian-dubh'', a single-edged knife that was formerly used by the Scots in the 17th and 18th centuries and continues to be part of traditional highland dress today.
*'''Kris''': A dagger with a distinctive wavy shape used through much of Southeast Asia, and is particularly prominent in Indonesia. They are often made to be spiritual objects and works of art as well as weapons, and as a result the crafting of the kris was designated a Masterpiece of the Oral and Intangible Heritage of Humanity by UNESCO. In layman's terms, this means that the kris' importance to Indonesian culture is equivalent to that of the Viennese coffee houses to Austria or the flamenco to Spain.
**The Filipino Kris, on the other hand, while made in a similar shape to its Indonesian contemporary, is actually a full-fledged combat sword. It is larger and heavier, as well as forged with durability for extended use in mind.
*'''Tanto''': A style that originated in [[Japan]] with a unique tip shape that makes it really effective for snap cut. Enjoyed a revival current millennium and, for some bizarre reason, [[Wikipedia:KM2000|was adopted as the primary knife]] of the German <s>army</s> defense force. The [[Japan#Self_Defense_Force|JSDF]] however sticks with copies of American designs.
*'''Puuko''': A general purpose knife from [[Finland]] and effectively a national symbol of Finland. So widespread Fins outside of their home country are assumed to have a knife on them. Killed more than a few Soviets during the Winter War.

{{MedievalWeaponry}}

Medieval Stasis

2019-12-14T07:45:29Z

2601:1C0:5C00:C130:5C44:4B00:823C:43A: /* Notable Examples of Medieval Stasis */

{{Topquote|[[Eberron]] in 998 YK is based on the idea that ''civilization is evolving''.|Keith Baker, explaining why Eberron is not a normal campaign setting.}}
'''Medieval Stasis''' describes the state of essentially all fantasy worlds that never get to [[steampunk]], and a crucial component of the [[standard fantasy setting]].

As the title implies, most fantasy worlds are stuck at a technological level roughly equivalent to Europe between 1000 CE and 1500 CE, being more advanced in some fields and more primitive in others, until the universe collapses. A [[knight]]'s ancestors five thousand years ago fought against Orcs on the back of a great warhorse, wielding [[sword]] and lance, wearing plate and a greathelm, just as he does at present and how his descendants 25 generations down the line will. At best, some groups in the universe may be more advanced than others (some peoples might be building castles and forging plate armor while others live as primitive cave men armed with flint axes and stone tipped spears), but nobody will be developing new technology, or, on the off chance one or two factions are, it will never spread much or catch on anywhere else. This also applies to social structures such as feudalism, with a max of one non-Greco-Roman democracy per setting. It will be conquered and restored from edition to edition as fanboys war behind the scenes.

While it is not, in and of itself, a bad thing, as it creates a set mood and style of play, we run into the fact that many writers are hacks, and use it to both rip-off other writers (principally, Tolkien) and to [[Advancing the Storyline|keep the world stagnant enough that they don't risk smashing something people actually like that they didn't have the skill to ''realize'' they shouldn't smash, while still maintaining the illusion of forward momentum]]. The ''[[Forgotten Realms]]'' is a prime example of this, featuring both several powerful organizations out to stifle any attempt to progress the technology or socioeconomic advancement of the setting, and many lame-brained "advances" in story from edition to edition, most infamously with 4th edition's "Spellplague" and retconned twin planet where all the new 4e races were hiding.

Note that in high-magic settings, sorcery sometimes gets so common and overpowered that it basically replaces technological progress. Why would you build robots or rockets if you can just create golems or cast Teleport Without Error?

Another issue with medieval stasis is that a lot of writers, most of them in fact; probably know less about the actual middle ages than the average Crusader Kings 2 player and thus present not only a world in medieval stasis but one that's in at best, a theme-park version of the medieval period and quite often only really showing Anglo-French medievalism (and a bastardized shitfarmer version of it at that). The somewhat more historically literate might put in some anachronisms like references to ancient Greece, Egypt, and Rome or to the Aztecs (usually a ramshackle mishmash of half remembered tidbits of the Mayans, Aztecs, and Inca thrown together with no real thought) and if you're extra lucky you might get something that's an extended reference to a (largely inaccurate) medieval Islamic polity or to the Holy Roman Empire mixed in with the usual barbarian tribes but that's usually about it. Like the Democracy thing mentioned above? It was nowhere near that simple in real life. A great many of the tribal societies we have records of were actually very democratic, where the King was elected and so were the chiefs below them and they absolutely did not have absolute authority over their subjects. And of course "feudalism" is simply a catch all label for a hugely varied and complicated array of societal organization systems that can be vaguely described as an aristocratic hierarchy based around land and military service and assorted ties of loyalty and bloodline.

And even in medieval Europe you had systems that broke the norm, like the Merchant republics of Italy or the north German Free cities and of course you had lands directly ruled by the Church. Never mind that you also had rather different systems of organization elsewhere in the world like in the Islamic world, India, the Americas, and of course China's quite literal bureaucracy where civil servants hired based on their performance in examinations did most of the day to day governing of China; dynasties could come and go but the bureaucracy was eternal. Tolkien was himself of course, a medievalist with very deep knowledge of the time period even by today's standards with our rather improved access to knowledge of the time period. Warhammer was created by history nerds who very much knew what they were writing about and so populated the world of Warhammer Fantasy with references to just about every political system that predominated in the medieval and renaissance periods as well as a lot of those that predominated in antiquity. So not only does Medieval Stasis perpetuate an annoying degree of sameness in the fantasy genre, it also tends to be based on a conception of medieval times that's not only essentially completely limited to France+England with some scattered references to other stuff, but is also almost completely wrong about everything and doesn't even scratch the surface of the depth of medieval history.
==Some general historical points==
One thing that should be known is that no one group of people has a monopoly on innovation. You have some stogy conservative societies with "revere your ancestors and their wisdom" and "If It Ain't Broke Don't Fix It" mentalities which hinders improvements and those which value innovation and believe in progress for the sake of progress and various groups in between, but nobody has been so dedicated to stagnation that they would shun all attempts at improvement in perpetuity. Civilizations which don't keep up tend to be conquered by those that do. Actual resistance to the adoption of new technologies is typically not to the effect of people in authorities demanding the inventors or the presenters of the new breakthrough be burned at the stakes for witchcraft. Instead generally more to the effect of seeing a new device and declaring it to be an interesting novelty but be reticent to adopting it because doing so would be expensive and it's benefits are still unclear, that there is not a particularly pressing need to improve that field right now, that it might be profitable in one sense but on the other hand it might destabilize the social order of things that has stood for centuries which can result in social unrest as people which profit from the current set up become redundant or that this beneficial machinery might come with complications that leave them in the pockets of foreign powers (buying spare parts for their machines or importing foreign fuel). Concerns which generally do have at least a kernel of truth to them (example: industrialization leading to the rise of a prominent bourgeoisie which eclipses the landed nobility) and the attitude that they often engender is to adopt changes gradually "on their own terms". Other factors are general Xenophobia and resistance to the ideas of Methodological Naturalism as opposed to Dogmatism, though even these are not absolute barriers.

Most improvements don't come in big breakthroughs made by some lone mastermind, a [[Stone Age|genius hunter/gatherer]] did not one day decide [[Bronze Age|"Lets start clearing out land, plowing it and sowing it with seeds and capturing animals to breed so we can have all the food we want"]]. That process evidently took thousands of years starting with little things such as weeding patches of wild food plants which were gradually added onto with other practices until you got farming as we'd understand it with silos, farmhouses, fields, plows, pens of sheep and pigs, irrigation ditches and so forth. Improvements can come about by people trying to be more thrifty, having to do with less of a previously common resource, more of a specific resource becoming available or by minor accidental variations. The idea that technology comes all at once from super special smart people ex nihilo instead of being born of conditions produced by years of decisions made by everyone down to the lowliest peasant is something born of a combination of fiction being kind of clumsy at showing things at a societal instead of an individual level and basically hagiographic propaganda about how great some inventor was (while almost invariably not crediting all the people who helped them) with a bit of marketing campaigns meant to make you think that a slightly faster electric toothbrush is some massive revolution. If you look at society as a product of decisions made by the masses under conditions rather than some smart guy having a great idea questions of why some people didn't invent some things become much easier to answer.

Certain technologies and conditions are conducive towards innovation. Let's look at the history of literacy, paper, printing, and the scientific method, for example. If your tribe can farm you have support some artisans who spend all their time weaving, making pots and tools, building boats, working wood, etc. These guys and gals know more about their field of expertise and work out ways of doing it more efficiently. Writing (developed to keep inventory records) means that ideas can be passed down from generation to generation more effectively. Mathematics (ditto) is a major boon to construction and later engineering. Movable type means that both are more readily available to the masses. The scientific mindset is also a valuable aid in this regard and is allowed to flourish because the greater spread of reading pushed by the movable type press and the adoption of paper makes it easier to become educated as well as record the results of experiments and share them with others. Before you had wood pulp paper and printing presses, writing surfaces were expensive (though paper was still considerably cheaper than parchment)and all copying had to be done by hand.

What does this mean for the scientific method? Well in this era to have a great, world renown library meant having one thousand or so books and generally they were chained to the library to prevent people from stealing them because they were literally worth their weight in gold. Today a random averagely wealthy bookworm could easily have more than a thousand books given some time to collect them, and the really big libraries have literally tens of millions of paper documents. So the massive paper trail of the modern scientific method was simply not affordable, and the need for manual copying basically kneecaps peer review. But with cheap paper, a greater number of people able to afford it thanks to black death induced changes to Feudal Europe, and printing presses science as we now know it could really get into motion.

Refinements in existing technologies can be a prerequisite to the development of new technologies. As an example, the Romans knew the basic principle of how to make a steam engine but they could not apply that technology because they lacked the ability to cast iron as they lacked proper blast furnaces, something you need to be good at doing to make one which is actually useful. The steam engines known to the Mediterranean world at the time were basically fancy toys for the idle rich. The Chinese had the technology to theoretically make steam engines, but the issue tended to be a lack of substantial need as well as China's bad habit of periodically exploding into colossal gigadeath civil wars. The Song Dynasty might have sparked the need for such technologies as they were rapidly transitioning towards a highly commercialised economy and out of the bounds of feudalism and were starting to run into issues of demand outpacing the ability of work to meet, [[Genghis motherfucking Khan|but things didn't go too great for them.]]

Finally there is the matter of Diffusion, the spread of technology from one country or civilisation to another if they are in contact with each other. This can be done directly (kidnapping a blacksmith and telling him to train up some of your bronzesmiths to work iron and beat him if he does not comply) or indirectly (a trader from the next kingdom over comes into town with a donkey pulling a wheeled cart, a carpenter sees this, thinks it's a good idea and decides to try to make one himself). There is no point in reinventing the wheel from log rollers on up when you can just copy someone else's work. Moreover if the idea spreads there will be a hell of a lot of people working on it making wheels coming to useful improvements by accidents, making refinements and big breakthroughs which will in turn spread again. If you started in Portugal and went east through Spain, France, Italy, the Balkans, Greece, Turkey, The Fertile Crescent, Iran, Pakistan, India, Indochina and China, you'd come across a series of well developed civilizations that had existed for thousands of years and each one had dealings with their neighbors. Ideas that started in India or Rome or Greece flowed along that pathway to be taken and refined elsewhere.

tl;dr: Stop being lazy and go read Guns, Germs and Steel.

=== Fantasy authors are bad Medievalists and historians part 2 ===

The vision of medieval times that exists in fantasy in a gigantic pile of anachronisms, pop-history, and misconceptions. Much of this is due to Fantasy's scope of time being seriously out of whack even without innovations like gunpowder or industrial technology. See, our monkey brains aren't very good at really comprehending spans of time longer than a handful of decades. So we tend to mash up entire "eras" of history into indistinct blobs in our headspace, even though the entire concept of a historical era is more or less for academic convenience and categorization. Charlemagne's Empire was as far back in the past relative to Joan of Arc as she is to the present day. And technology and culture certainly did not remain static in those intervening seven hundred years. Paris went from a fairly small city of a few tens of thousands to a bustling metropolis of nearly a quarter of a million people, mail or banded armour was largely replaced by solid plated armour, gunpowder was popularised, sugar was introduced to the European diet, the Magyars went from eastern horseback mounted pagan invaders to a solidly catholic and europeanised mainstay of central Europe as the Hungarians, and eastern Europe was christianised in a rather gory and unpleasant process to name just a few of the drastic changes over the years. Of course any Crusader Kings 2 player could tell you how ridiculous the idea of the political map of a faux-medieval realm remaining static for centuries is.

Let's now take the common complaint among Fantasy authors that guns obsolete castles and knights in shining armour. Full Plate armour coexisted with man portable gunpowder weapons throughout literally the entirety of its military service and was phased out because of reasons of cost as armies got bigger; not because it was ineffective against guns. Making a fully articulated suit of plate armour fitted to every soldier is expensive and time consuming, so as armies got more standardised as countries centralised with equipment being given by the military rather than soldiers being left to figure it out themselves it was deemed easier to just give people the basics needed to protect their bodies. Hell in Japan; the increasing prevalence of guns is what made the Samurai go from only partially metallic lamellar armour to full metal plated suits in the first place.

Furthermore, Plate armour by and large did not coexist with other types of metallic armour. It straight up replaced them all because it was just flatly better. Whether it's just a breastplate, a suit of half-plate (half referring to how much of the body is protected), or full plate, there was basically zero reason to wear anything else. Once the metal casting technology for plate armour became widespread, other forms of armour largely disappeared save for covering joint areas because plate armour is simply better in every way and is cheaper to make. Full coats of mail or scale didn't coexist with efficiently made plate armour, there's no need for a chain shirt when a solid steel breastplate offers superior protection for no downside; and full plate is actually considerably more comfortable and lighter than a full coat of mail. So that adventuring party where the Barbarian is wearing chainmail for mobility and the fighter is wearing full plate to tank better at the cost of agility? Simply didn't happen. You're mixing your dark ages and your late medieval/renaissance era armour styles. Mixing armor did however happen with conquistadors, and ''may'' have occurred with other small groups of fighting men. This was due purely to costs, not armor types having pros and cons, as used obsolete gear was far cheaper than armor anyone actually wanted. The equipment log for the 287 combatant Coronado expedition lists five suits of full plate (four belonging to Coronado himself), four suits of plate armor for horses (all Coronado's), 16 sets of partial plate, 56 pieces of sleeveless chain armor for the torso (two vests only), one suit of sleeved chain armor, and 250 gambesons. Archaeologists have found a medieval kettle hat in New Mexico, which would have been obsolete by hundreds of years before it got there.

As for Castles, anyone who seriously believed that cannons made strong walls obsolete would be laughed out of any gunpowder era military engineering course; hell even as late as the world wars fixed fortifications were a very daunting task for artillery to try and crack and often required specialist super heavy guns or ultra high penetration air dropped bombs to break. Have you ever heard the term Forlorn hope? It refers to the supremely unfortunate soldiers who get the job of being the first to rush into the breach of a fortress when after what is typically days, weeks, or even months of non-stop cannon fire they ''finally'' break open one of the walls. Which is rather obviously a suicide mission for the first wave. If it were easy to crack open fortresses with cannonades there would be no need for them.

What actually changed about Castles is that as countries became more centralised, control over military forts passed unto the Kingdom/Empire proper and out of the hands of local nobles, meaning that fortresses largely stopped also being houses for the resident Baron or Count of whatever. This had the benefit of ensuring that local nobles had a harder time rebelling because the fortresses were loyal to the Capital, rather than being their private property. It wasn't until well into the 20th century with the invention of the atomic fucking bomb that a line of fixed fortifications was no longer regarded as a serious obstacle to a truly determined attacker and that was only if the attacker was willing and able to drop one on the battlefield. With conventional munitions, even today with all our missiles and precision weapons a fortified line is something that most attackers would rather bypass rather than breach. Of course most defenders know this and essentially use fortifications to funnel attackers into battlefields of their choosing.

And what about industrial technology? Surely that has no place in my pre-modern setting or would be obsoleted by magic! That too was driven in large part by increased centralisation. Artisanal production is relatively fine if you never need to send products very far away from where they're made and are only meeting relatively small amounts of local demand and the occasional distant but super wealthy patron. But as realms centralise and unify and economies grow interconnected suddenly monks copying maybe a handful of books a year at a premium isn't enough to meet the needs for more literature. You need higher output, which leads to factoryification of production which requires growing mechanisation of production to ensure that quality remains consistent. This drives the greater reliance on machines in producing things and these machines make it easier to make better machines until you can meet the demand or until you get to the point where you're starting to reach the limitations of your power source like wind, muscle, or waterpower. As medieval societies got bigger, you saw more windmills and watermills to get more power for all this work.

Fantasy settings however, offer magic and alchemy which should realistically; unless there are heavy restrictions on the commonality of either, make for ideal power sources to make for even better machines until you end up in industrialism via sorcery and alchemy. Whether they do this on their own or are used to augment mundane technology is mostly irrelevant. And indeed, powerful mages and alchemists are likely to end up as the predominant class as they control access to these all important resources. So societies that don't want to rely on either would likely double down on trying to find alternatives to having to rely on them much like how Merchants pushed for quite a lot of what we take for granted in modern society to wriggle out from the thumb of the Aristocracy; like moving centres of production into cities not owned by nobles so they didn't have to pay the local Baron and would have better access to labourers not tied to the land as they sought to maximise profit in their class interest.

Societies are products of the conditions in which they exist. Things are the way they are because of responses to needs and pressures or perceived needs and pressures. They are never really static because the wheel of history is constantly turning and even something as simple as fluctuations in population size can result in radical transformations. Did a big war just depopulate a country in a fantasy setting? Well gee whiz now the labourers in the country have a much greater position of power and influence due to the scarcity of their services which can lead to undermining the entire basis of medieval feudalism and pave the way for late Feudalism or even early Capitalism. Or perhaps something else entirely if the setting conditions allow for it (probably not a regression to Classical era slavery though; that required huge surpluses of labour.)

==Notable Examples of Medieval Stasis==

*'''[[Lord of the Rings]]:''' Tolkien was a naturalist who wasn't too fond of industrialization, having seen the First World War's highly industrialized warfare up close and personal, so the heroes of his stories preferred Medieval Stasis as well, barring a few anachronisms like clocks and matches. Unlike most of the writers that he inspired, Tolkien had [[Fluff|five hundred pages of background]] explaining why, namely because Middle-earth was in a state of decline due to the ravages of Morgoth and Sauron, the gradual decline of the elves and the Dunedain after the downfall of Numenor, and much of their technology was given to them by the Valar rather than inventing it themselves.
**The funny thing is, based on supplementary books and scrapped stories, Numenor came quite close to being a Steampunk world power equipped with steamships and even rockets.
**The setting actually takes place six thousand years before known history and is basically the story of why humanity rules the world.
* '''[[A Song of Ice and Fire]]:''' Westeros is ''extra'' static, because not only has everything been fairly stable for thousands of years until the Great Fuckening of the current time frame, some ''individual families'' have had unbroken rule over their lands for a hundred odd generations (The Starks being the prime example, as they have ruled in Winterfell for over ''eight thousand years'') which is something patently absurd when you consider how much real life royal, imperial, and noble families have had to struggle to avoid patrilineal extinction in just a few centuries, with the oldest still extant aristocratic house being the Japanese house of Yamato and even then it's likely that they bent the rules of succession at least once in their 2500 year history. That said, it should be noted that part of the backstory involves the Bronze Age First Men defeating the Stone Age Children of the Forest, who were themselves conquered by the Iron Age Andal invaders everywhere but in the Iron Islands and the North (who adapted and adopted the technology of their would-be conquerors), and the records of the ancient days are spotty at best, full of mythical accounts and many of the Maesters believe that said events happened over a shorter timeframe. Granted, the whole "millenia old houses" might be something that tended to happen with noble houses IRL claming to be much older than they actually were and could not being contradicted in the absence of reliable records, all the way to the ethiopian "Solomonids" that still exist to this day, and the aforementionned Yamato being helped by the fact that Japan did not have reliable calendars until the late 19th century, so there's that. While the exact timespan between the Andal invasion and the current events isn't exactly established, the stasis is still quite bad especially when you consider how dragons (essentially domesticated flying animals) are present yet people are none wiser on things such as flight or the use of heat and steam in proto-industrial activities.
* '''[[Forgotten Realms]]:''' Not only have things been more-or-less exactly the same for all of recorded history, there is a powerful, international, theoretically-good-or-at-least-neutral organization actively devoted to making sure that ''no progress of any kind is ever made'': the Harpers. Whenever anyone invents something useful (guns, locomotion, etc.) and tries to market it, the Harpers confiscate it. Whenever a good-aligned king tries to unite and stabilize the warring states, the Harpers murder his ass (makes one wonder if the Harpers aren't part of the problem). Faerun hasn't budged an inch since Ao glued it together. The only exception to this was the island nation of Lantan. The island was a theocratic state in service to Gond Wonderbringer, a deity whose portfolio included innovation and technology, who gifted his followers with knowledge of smokepowder which lead to functional in-setting [[firearm|firearms]]. At least until 4th edition blew it up along with everything else fun or interesting in the Forgotten Realms. As of 5th edition, the current (albeit scattered and/or vague) lore seems to imply that Lantan's destruction has been retconned like the rest of the Spellplague.
* '''[[Greyhawk]]:''' Despite the impotent bitching on the page for this [[Old School Roleplaying|oldest-of-the-old school]] settings, it also has a society where nothing much ever has happened or will happen to bring about changes in the lifestyles of its inhabitants. And ''this'' is the setting with [[Murlynd| a literal god of Old West gunfighting]] and an army of [[firearm]]-toting [[gunslinger|paladins analogous to sheriffs]].
* '''[[Dragonlance]]:''' Apocalyptic calamities come and go, but Krynn stays at pretty much the same level of pseudo-medieval tech forever, world without end, amen. And, no the [[Gnomes|tinker gnomes]] do ''not'' count, since their stuff almost never does anything useful, gets mass-produced, or catches on outside the gnomes themselves. In fact, some material explicitly says that the reason for the stasis is '''because''' of the fucking gnomes; their absolute idiocy when it comes to producing technology has actually convinced pretty much every other culture on the planet that science is fundamentally inferior in every way to sorcery! The one culture that doesn't think they're entirely a waste of time is only interested because it pretty much hates magic... and is made of a bunch of knight-in-shining-armor types so hidebound that they haven't been able to properly fix their organization since the first Cataclysm, and so anything like vehicles or gunpowder is certain to get dismissed on grounds of being "dishonorable". So, yeah, '''fuck''' tinker gnomes.
* '''[[Warcraft]]:''' In a cartoony match for the Dragonlance example above, Azeroth's many factions never adopt one another's technological advancements. Goblins and gnomes can invent as many steampunk robots as they want, none of their stuff will ever change the world in a concrete way. Even the aliens are mostly just sword-and-sorcery types. That said, firearms had established themselves in the comparatively recent past.
*'''[[Ravenloft]]:''' This is probably the most interesting example. The Demiplane of Dread doesn't so much "advance" as it does "absorb some place where things are a little more complicated," and most of the Domains of Dread are already tailor-made just to torture their prisoners (and the Darklords can also choose to simply seal off all access to their Domains entirely when they're not just isolated by the Mists). Thus, though individual Domains might be advanced enough for common people to have firearms and gaslights or so primitive that they aren't even ''into'' the Stone Age (King Crocodile for the win!), they will almost never learn from or assimilate one another's technology even on the rare chance xenophobia doesn't get in the way first. Each Domain will be mostly frozen into the level it's at, medieval or not. Amusingly, this works both ways: technologically-advanced societies are no more likely to take up magic than lower-tech ones are to learn to use gunpowder.
*'''[[Star Wars]]:''' Not medieval, but absolutely in technological stasis in the Old Republic. In the 4000 years, the only thing that has noticeably improved is hyperdrives which have become faster and smaller. This would eventually be justified by a devestating war ~1100 years before the original film bringing about a dark age that killed several major technology companies and destroyed any FTL communication (sans courier) past the core worlds.
*'''[[Warhammer Fantasy Battles]]:''' Bretonnia is literally in Medieval Stasis despite having one of the most technologically-advanced nations right next door. The Elves of all types give no fucks about advancing their technology, but in their defense what they have still works, they have access to giant monsters such as dragons and hydras and the Dark Elves at least have progressed from bows to rapid-fire armor-piercing crossbows. The Warriors of Chaos are again literally medieval, but in their case they're Medieval [[Vikings]]. Orcs have not been introduced to the wonders of "Dakka" yet; the Lizardmen still use wood and stone but make up for it by also using dinosaurs and advanced magic. Lastly, the Ogres are pretty much in "Stone Age Stasis" as they're not very intelligent but under Overtyrant Greasus started to discover the benefits of commerce. Human nations outside of Bretonnia are at the tail end of the Renaissaince, while the Empire of Man is in slowly fighting through the early Enlightenment but they are under constant attack from various Eldritch horrors so progress is existent but slow. The only races that have had any technological developments on a grand scale are the Skaven and Dwarfs, and more so the Chaos Dwarfs. Unfortunately, most of the inventions of the Skaven end up blowing up in their face, and the Dwarfs are reluctant to share their technology with anybody other than the Empire of Man and must be centuries old before the guilds it to be produced. The Chaos Dwarfs' technology is run on daemon souls and bloody sacrifices. You can see why others have not copied them.
** The undead factions are an interesting case; while neither use technology in the game more advanced than Stone Age weaponry, they vary in the lore. The Vampire Counts vary with Luthor Harkon's pirate fleets using blackpowder weapons and The Tomb Kings themselves had varying technology, with their most technologically advanced city, Lybaras, reaching the steampunk level. Also, they have superhuman abilities, being undead eliminates many of the needs that lead people to develop technology (no need to develop automation when undead laborers don't get tired or bored and if their bodies wear out they get repaired with magic or replaced, no need for medicine because most diseases don't effect undead) and they also have magic and monsters.
**Not that any of this matters because the entire world got nuked by the Chaos Gods. The sequel setting, Age of Sigmar, has the sucessor factions be at roughly the same level as they were at the End Times, but stuff has become understood enough that Steam Tanks and Cannons won't randomly blow up as often and can be reliably mass produced, and it should be pointed out that Mass Production is it self: a game changer. Stasis is more then raw technology: it is as much application.

==Notable Settings ''Without'' Medieval Stasis==

*'''[[Warhammer Fantasy Battles]]:''' The Empire and the Dwarfs are actually about the level of most European countries around 1500, at the start of the early modern period and the Renaissance. They're also advancing, albeit slowly, but the problem is that they are under constant Chaos invasions and Chaos Gods themselves are not above screwing with the world, which puts something of a crimp on pure research. Imagine what Nurgle would do to the guy who discovered penicillin in this world. The fact that relations between the engineers and the Cult of Sigmar are not the best in the world does not help things at all. The other notable technology users are the Skaven, but the Skaven technology only affects their weapons (god help the world if they ever figure out sanitation considering what it did to our own population) and it's almost all magitech based on weaponizing [[Warpstone|solidified Chaos.]] Undead straddle the line between the two, with the vampires not being afraid to use technology; the problem is most of their undead minions lack the physical and mental acumen to use it while the vampires physical, mental and magical abilities make technology practically redundant to them at a personal level. The [[Tomb Kings]] had technology at the steampunk level, though this isn't represented in the game, but they are more concerned about rebuilding their realm, which has fallen into disrepair due to hundreds of years of civil war and no maintenance, rather than advancing their society. They do have something like robots in the form of their magically animated undead constructs.
*'''[[Iron Kingdoms]]:''' The Iron Kingdoms setting is one of the best examples of steampunk fantasy. They're developed to the extent of the Victorian era (the mid-to-late 1800s), with a slow-but-growing industrial revolution and the discovery and development of electricity and chemistry. At the same time, it remains a recognizably fantasy setting in many ways, with wizard orders, barbarian tribes, and dangerous monster threats on the frontier demanding plucky-adventurer solutions.
*'''[[Eberron]]:''' Eberron is weird and expressly focused on subverting the usual D&D cliches, so the technology is a strange mixture of all eras with a side order of JRPG-style magitech. It's one of the few settings that avoids both medieval stasis and outright steampunk, since magic is so common that it has effectively displaced technology, but unlike most settings, this manifests as mass ''availability'' of magic conveniences. As there is no continuity and by default every game starts at exactly the same point in time as every other game, in 998 YK, [[Advancing the Storyline| there's no real status quo to worry about upsetting]]. Only modules that are direct sequels ever reference the events of other modules as having happened.
*'''[[Dark Sun]]:''' A weird example. Depending on edition, the past of Athas may have included anything from a standard fantasy setting to a bio-mechanical halfling empire. But, either way, the Brown Age is a barbaric decline of these past glories, with little metal and no feasible way of shaping more leaving the world in an oddly-civilized nigh-Stone Age. Still, there is an undercurrent of rebuilding and reforming throughout the more-heroic-minded books on the setting, helped by the same eventual anti-continuity Eberron had, so the idea that things ''could'' progress or get better isn't ''impossible''.
*'''[[Ironclaw]]:''' The once-fantasy world is undergoing a pseudo-Renaissance shift away from magic and feudalism to machinery and Italian-style guild-republics. PCs are actually explicitly part of the burgeoning new middle class. Not bad for a furry RPG, huh?
*'''[[Mystara]]:''' Depending on where you are, there might be airships, magic-powered technological conveniences, and drill-tanks to explore the hollow earth full of dinosaurs. Either way, things are a little less generic here in proto-Eberron.
*'''[[Pathfinder]]:''' [[Golarion]] features relatively advanced technologies such as flintlock and matchlock firearms, the printing press, galleons (crewed by pirates reminiscent of the Golden Age of piracy in the Caribbean), and, in certain sourcebooks, [[Spelljammer|steampunk/magi-tech spaceships]]. Not to mention the number of people whose clothes and equipment are explicitly based on 18th-century fashions (see, among others, Andoran, Taldor, and Alkenstar). At least one source (''05-13: Hellknight's Feast'') says high class dwellings have actual porcelain toilets. Also, there's that one random corner of the world where aliens are trying to peacefully settle and/or invade, only to realize they picked the *one* corner of the world where pleas of "We come in peace!" are met with [[Barbarian|warcries and the judicious application of battleaxes to various vital areas]]. One sourcebook (''Technology Guide'') includes *lots* of super-high-tech stuff and different class archetypes that make use of it. On the socio-political front, the Chelaxian breakaways Andoran and Galt have started to push for a less aristocratic government. Come second edition, cannons have become widespread on naval vessels.
**And '''[[Starfinder]]''' reveals that at least at some point various sci-fi technologies will be developed.
*'''[[Avatar: The Last Airbender]]''': It was true in the past, but by the time of the original series the Fire Nation has become an industrial power, complete with colonial ambitions towards the rest of the world. In fact, the main character's previous incarnation as Avatar Roku actually ''stopped'' the Fire Nation from breaking medieval stasis ''because'' he foresaw that doing so would mean allowing them to subjugate all the other peoples; the fact that the Fire Lord during this industrial age - his former friend Fire Lord Sozin - went on a power trip after seeing the shiny new tech and outright said he had imperialist designs was also a major factor. Sure enough, the Fire Nation does so and immediately goes all Imperial Japan on the world, and the next Avatar turned out to be an Airbender who ran from the genocide of his people, which is perfectly sensible because even if they weren't the designated pacifist culture, he was literally 12 and had no way of meaningfully stopping them (''yet''). Even the Earth Kingdom and Water Tribes have a few tinkerers and inventors, and during the time of Avatar Aang, the first airships and submarines are invented, albeit the magitek varieties. At the end of the show, the protagonist Avatar Aang makes peace between all three surviving factions and begins the reestabilshment of the aforementioned genocided faction, and the sequel reveals that doing so helped the world advance to a roughly 20s/30s era of technology, complete with automobiles, moving pictures, the printing press, political propaganda videos, and cronyist democracy.
*'''[[Dragonmech]]''': Dragonmech's setting used to be in Medieval Stasis, then chunks of the moon started to rain down on them along with Alien Moon Dragons riding the rocks down for a full-on invasion, people first hide underground but then a dwarf kickstarts the creation of Pacific Rim sized steampunk robots to fight the Dragons and the whole world is now in a full-on steam-powered Industrial Revolution without the gunpowder.
*'''[[Star Wars]]:''' Outside of the period between the start of the New Sith Wars to the Ruusan Reformation (where everyone was too busy killing eachother, even more so than usual), technology actually ''does'' advance noticeably throughout the prequels (32 BBY onward) all the way to the era of the Legacy comics (138 ABY). Hyperdrives improve (in speed, how small a craft they can fit in and how big a craft they can propel) at a much faster rate than they did in the 1000 years since the end of the dark age. It's not just direct improvements either, with new technologies like [[Android]]s, relatively cheap cloaking devices that don't require unobtainum, silent and invisible blasters, biological technology merged with mechanical tech, and more. Even military strategy changes significantly between back and forth transitions between symmetrical and asymmetrical warfare. Amazingly all this occurs organically as new technology is introduced to allow a plot and gets improved upon in future installments.

[[Category:History]]
[[Category:Gamer Slang]]

First Founding

2019-12-14T04:18:48Z

2601:1C0:5C00:C130:5C44:4B00:823C:43A: /* Number of Legionaries */

{{Topquote|They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give of themselves to me. Like clay I shall mould them, and in the furnace of war forge them. They will be of iron will and steely muscle. In great armour shall I clad them and with the mightiest guns will they be armed. They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them. They will have tactics, strategies and machines so that no foe can best them in battle. They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear.|The [[God-Emperor of Mankind|Emperor of Mankind]] on the creation of the Adeptus Astartes}}

After he conquered [[Terra]], the [[God-Emperor of Mankind|Emperor of Mankind]] set out on a [[Great Crusade]] to re-unite the lost human colonies into a mighty [[Imperium]]. He soon realized that bog-standard humans wouldn't be enough; some situations called for a small number of devastatingly powerful warriors, a surgical strike force to smash enemy linchpins. To fill this role, he created his [[Primarchs]], and from their genes, he created the '''Legiones Astartes''', the twenty [[Space Marines|Space Marine]] Legions, in an event [[Second Founding|retroactively]] named the '''First Founding'''.

==The Legions==

{|align=center border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" style="text-align:center;"
|-
! Legion Number !! Primarch !! Homeworld !! Legion Name !! Allegiance
|-
! I
|[[Lion El'Jonson]] || [[Caliban]] || [[Dark Angels]]
| style="background-color: navy;color:white;"| ABSOLUTELY LOYAL, AND HAVE TOTALLY NEVER BEEN TRAITORS AT ANY POINT. PLEASE FOLLOW ME DOWN THIS ENTIRELY SAFE AND UNSUSPICIOUS DARK ALLEY SO THAT I MAY EDUCATE YOU ON THE TOTALLY CLEAN AND LOYALIST HISTORY OF THE DARK ANGELS!
|-
! II
! colspan="5" | +++Records expunged+++
|-
!III
| [[Fulgrim]] || [[Chemos]] || [[Emperor's Children]]
| style="background-color: maroon;color:white;"| Absolutely FABULOUS traitor
|-
! IV
| [[Perturabo]] || [[Olympia]] || [[Iron Warriors]]
| style="background-color: maroon;color:white;"| Super grumpy Traitor
|-
!V
| [[Jaghatai Khan]] || [[Chogoris|Chogoris/Mundus Planus]] || [[White Scars]]
| style="background-color: navy;color:white;"| Speedy, laughing Loyal
|-
!VI
|[[Leman Russ]] || [[Fenris]] || [[Space Wolves]]
| style="background-color: navy;color:white;"| Who's a Loyal Boy? Is it you? Is it you? ruff ruff yiff
|-
!VII
|[[Rogal Dorn]] || [[Terra]], [[Inwit]] || [[Imperial Fists]]
| style="background-color: navy;color:white;"| MEGA <s>ULTRA</s> FISTISHLY Loyal
|-
!VIII
|[[Konrad Curze]] || [[Nostramo]] || [[Night Lords]]
| style="background-color: maroon;color:white;"| Spooky traitor (dead)
|-
!IX
|[[Sanguinius]] || [[Baal]] || [[Blood Angels]]
| style="background-color: navy;color:white;"| Loyal and fabulously DEEAADD!!!
|-
!X
|[[Ferrus Manus]] || [[Medusa]] || [[Iron Hands]]
| style="background-color: navy;color:white;"| Loyal (also DEAD)
|-
!XI
! colspan="5" | +++Records expunged+++
|-
!XII
|[[Angron]] || [[Nuceria]], [[Bodt]] || [[World Eaters]]
| style="background-color: maroon;color:white;"| RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!!!! (traitor)
|-
!XIII
|[[Roboute Guilliman]] || [[Macragge]] || [[Ultramarines]]
| style="background-color: navy;color:white;"| SUPER DUPER Loyal. DEFINITELY never made another Imperium. Nope. Never. No chance.
|-
!XIV
|[[Mortarion]] || [[Barbarus]] || [[Death Guard]]
| style="background-color: maroon;color:white;"| Icky traitor
|-
!XV
|[[Magnus the Red]] || [[Prospero]] || [[Thousand Sons]]
| style="background-color: maroon;color:white;"| <s>Did Nothing Wrong</s> Traitors (though they never asked for it)
|-
!XVI
|[[Horus|Horus Lupercal]] || [[Cthonia]] || [[Black Legion|Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus]]
| style="background-color: maroon;color:white;"| UBER Traitor (and also UBER dead)
|-
!XVII
|[[Lorgar|Lorgar Aurelian]] || [[Colchis]] || [[Word Bearers]]
| style="background-color: maroon;color:white;"| Double Traitor
|-
!XVIII
|[[Vulkan]] || [[Nocturne]] || [[Salamanders]]
| style="background-color: navy;color:white;"| Loyal (and with a slightly weird fire fetish)
|-
!XIX
|[[Corvus Corax]] || [[Deliverance]] || [[Raven Guard]]
| style="background-color: navy;color:white;"| Sneaky beaky loyal
|-
!XX
|[[Alpharius]] [[Omegon]] || Unknown || |[[Alpha Legion]]
| style="background-color: maroon;color:white;"| It's complicated; even they might not know at this point, but according to the Imperium at large, Traitor.
|}

==Organization==
[[File:Space Marine Legion.jpg|400px|thumbnail|right|]]
The Legio Astartes, being far larger than current Space Marine Chapters, were organized along drastically different lines. At the head of the Legion was its [[Primarch]] Commander who oversaw the Legion's headquarters. Prior to reuniting with their Primarch, this position was filled by the Legion Master, the most senior Space Marine in the Legion. Below this were the '''[[Space Marine Chapter|Chapters]]''' of the Legion, each of which was commanded by a [[Chapter Master|Lord Commander]]. Each [[Space Marine Chapter|Chapter]] in turn was divided into a number of '''Battalions''' led by a '''Lieutenant Commander'''. Each battalion was then further divided into '''Companies''' led by a [[Brother-Captain|Captain]]. The Company, itself divided into a number of '''Squads''', was the basic military division of the Legio Astartes. Due to the varying sizes of each Legion and the varying nature of supply and attrition, there was no fixed number of how many Chapters, Battalions, Companies, and Squads a Legion would contain. But even then, there was no fixed [[Codex Astartes|institution]] that a particular Company should be composed of certain units, with each Company specialising naturally as marines and officers became veterans of a certain form of warfare.

===Number of Legionaries===
The Legions were massive armies, and the size of each could vary tremendously. A precise number was never truly achieved and maintained. Even during the Great Crusade, some Legions were very numerous, while others were not. The numbers would always vary with new recruits and inevitable battle-losses, and also important was the availability of potential recruits and the [[Roboute Guilliman|administrative]] [[Perturabo|skills]] of the Primarch and his officers.

However the closest thing to a 'standard' legion is what the Emperor started with which was 10 chapters to a legion, 2 battalions to a chapter, five companies to a battalion and 100 marines to a company. Theoretical nominal strength: 10,000.

The most numerous Legion of all was the [[Ultramarines]]. The [[Thousand Sons]] of [[Magnus]] were of a small number as many of them had developed mutations or uncontrollable levels of psychic powers. [[Fulgrim]]'s samples had been largely lost, and this left the Legion of the [[Emperor's Children]] also with a very small number. Both of these Legions would increase their numbers to acceptable standards only after their Primarchs were found. The [[Dark Angels]], being the first Legion, were originally the largest one but their numbers declined significantly during the Rangdan Xenocides. The Iron Warriors were also quite numerous for a while, but Perturabo's [[Death Korps of Krieg|unique view on what qualified as acceptable losses]] changes that in time.

The approximate sizes of a few of the Legions at the start of the Heresy have been given in various sources (it should be noted that originally these numbers were much smaller, a full zero knocked off until they were upped by the BL/Forgeworld writers):

*[[Dark Angels]] - Less than 166,000 following the Rangdan Xenocides, Though by the time of the Horus Heresy, one of Luther's Castellans claimed the Legion was at greater strength than they had ever been in the past.
*[[Emperor's Children]] - 110,000
*[[Iron Warriors]] - 150,000 to 180,000 but could have been more, if not for them regularly taking horrific casualties.
*[[White Scars]] - 95,000
*[[Space Wolves]] - 95,000 to 100,000(originally 130,000)
*[[Imperial Fists]] - 100,000
*[[Night Lords]] - Officially 90,000 to 120,000 but actually close to the larger Legions
*[[Blood Angels]] - 150,000 divided in 300 companies 500 strong
*[[Iron Hands]] - In excess of 113,000
*[[World Eaters]] - 150,000
*[[Ultramarines]] - 270,000+
*[[Death Guard]] - 90,000 to 250 000 (Mortarion wanted 490 000, but never attained it)
*[[Thousand Sons]] - 80,000 to 85,000
*[[Sons of Horus]] - 130,000 to 170,000
*[[Word Bearers]] - 140,000 to 250,000
*[[Salamanders]] - 89,000
*[[Raven Guard]] - 80,000
*[[Alpha Legion]] - 90,000 to 130,000 to 180,000 and possibly even more. No-one knows for sure.

Using the lowest and highest numbers this means there was 1,933,095 to 2,358,000 space marines without including the White Scars. These estimations are the Legions at the closing of the Great Crusade, though it would be a mistake to assume that the number was final and only went down during the Horus Heresy, in fact many of the Legions were still recruiting at an accelerated rate and the number actually went up, [https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Raven_Guard#The_Last_Ones_Standing|though at some cost however]. To put some context to that number, on the low end that's about the size of the American forces in the Korean war and on the high end that's about all the soviets that were involved in the battle of Berlin.

It's also a mistake to assume that the Traitor Legions went turncoat completely en-masse, when in fact the Loyalist elements of those Legions counted for a significant portion of their strength. Approximately 100,000 loyalist Legionaries were purged at Isstvan III, practically counting for a Legion sized force to themselves. Their destruction came at a great cost to the Traitor Legions mustered there and Horus would enter the war with his strength greatly reduced, but could count on Daemon auxiliarys for reinforcements. While rare, there were also a few members of loyalist Legions who sided with the traitors as well- the Dark Angels and White Scars in particular were very nearly torn apart by the resulting infighting.

===Assets===
Besides having far greater numbers of Astartes to draw on, the legions were also better equipped and had a much wider variety of arms and vehicles to choose from. Many armored vehicles that are currently Imperial Guard specific once served in the legions such as the [[Basilisk Artillery Gun|Basilisk]], while other wargear like [[Volkite]] guns or [[Mastodon]]s were mothballed due to their rarity or their obsolescence for the smaller-sized chapters. Numerous tactical roles were likewise phased out, for better or worse.

'''Heresy-Era Specialties:'''
*[[Breacher Siege Squad]]
*[[Despoiler Squad]]
*[[Destroyer Squad]]
*[[Moritat]]
*[[Reconnaissance Squad]]
*[[Seeker Squad]]
*[[Sky Hunter Squad]]
*[[Tactical Support Squad]]
*[[Legion Consul]]
*Consul Praevian

== Horus Heresy ==

{{Main|Horus Heresy}}

For all their power, the [[Space Marines]] and [[Primarchs]] were not perfect; ([[Alpharius|may]][[Omegon|be]]) half of them were sufficiently flawed to be tempted by (or driven to) [[Chaos]], led by Warmaster [[Horus]]. The traitors were defeated, but at a terrible cost, including the near-death of the [[God-Emperor of Mankind]] and trillions of deaths of invaluable astartes and human beans.

[[Roboute Guilliman]] decided that the so-called [[Horus Heresy]] was proof that one man could not be trusted with power over one-twentieth of the Imperial Armed Forces, so he enacted several reforms to divide the Imperial Army into the Imperial Guard and Navy, and split the remaining loyalist Legions into Chapters, in accordance with his [[Codex Astartes]]. This event was later known as the [[Second Founding]].

==Legions in 40k==
Technically all of the Chaos Marines are still 'legions', at least in name. They never split into chapters so legions they technically remain. However, since they are all split up into roving warbands and there is no central control ([[Black Legion|with a]] [[Death Guard|few]] [[Thousand Sons|exceptions]]) it's hard to say they really count anymore. Perhaps most importantly it's impossible to guess how many dudes there are even technically in any legions pool. When they aren't fighting the Imperium, they are fighting each other, and since none of the Black Crusades have been successful we can reasonably assume that marines aren't pouring out of the Eye of Terror in their hundreds of thousands. It's utterly impossible to guess how many dudes they got. They obviously have enough to attack the Imperium with (especially since their recruiting practices aren't as picky as their Loyalist counterparts), but probably not much more than the Loyalist Space Marines. Probably more than they came to the Eye with though, between further recruiting and former Loyalists turning to Chaos.

As for the Loyalists... Since the introduction of the [[Codex Astartes]], there are obviously no longer any Space Marine legions though that does not stop certain chapters from being described or implied to be at ''"Legion Strength"''. Though this is often a common [[Neckbeard]] error and sometimes even gets used in the fluff, where the term is mistakenly used to describe any significantly oversized chapter, though even then they never compare to the forces from the Great Crusade. Though some make a good attempt at it:

*[[Imperial Fists]] - As it turned out, Dorn didn't fully break up his Legion. Every Son of Dorn chapter has a secret plan dubbed "The Last Wall"- if the main Chapter were to encounter an immediate threat to Terra, it could call its successor chapters to unite them into a full Legion until the threat is dealt with; the prospect of so many chapters working in such close cooperation was something that frightened the [[High Lords of Terra]] and they did not approve. Nonetheless, this plan not only saved Terra from [[The War of The Beast|the largest Ork WAAAGH!! the Imperium has ever dealt with]], but also rescued the Imperial Fists from ''actual'' extinction in the process.
*[[Black Templars]] are obviously over-strength in multiples of 1000 and keep to the spirit of the Great Crusade unlike any other chapter. This force is made up of three primary crusade fleets of unknown size which can end up spread over up to thirty engagements, where the size of a force could be as large as [[Dawn of War|"nearly" chapter strength]] ''(but not '''over''' for obvious reasons)'' or as small as a [[Dawn of War 2|single ship and a handful of squads]], so can be averaged at around chapter strength for each primary fleet. This arrangement is meant to be fluid, and changes all the time as fleets merge and disperse. Respectable figures put their numbers between 2000-6000. The Templars are able to get away with this due to an obscure exception in the Codex allowing chapters to be over-strength during major Crusades in order to easily replace losses, and the Templars are ''always'' crusading. This is unofficially tolerated by the High Lords because of fanatical loyalty, constant casualties, consistent results and the fact that the Templars are so spread out. They may be legion sized 'total' but there not Legion sized at any single location.
*[[Space Wolves]] make no secret of the fact they ignore the Codex Astartes, but even then they are no-where near their original size. In M32 during the '''Battle of the Fang''' it is remarked that most of ''The Aett'' is actually abandoned. Furthermore, Logan Grimnar's own Great Company numbers 200 marines prior to the Sanctus Reach campaign and is the largest company on its own ''(i.e.: not including the chapter assets)''. Their current number was originally between 1200-3000, but following the Siege of Fenris it is almost certainly much smaller.
*[[Astral Claws]] were ''actually'' accused of Legion building and declared heretics even when they were not yet followers of [[Chaos]], their number at the time of the Badab War was around 3000, though they never even used that number as a single force and spread themselves throughout their '''[[Warhammer_40,000/6th_Edition_Tactics/Tyrant%27s_Legion|PDF forces]]'''
*[[Dark Angels#The Unforgiven|The Unforgiven]] are most likely one of the closest examples of a true Legion in that each of the successor chapters arrange themselves under one ''secret'' command structure (the '''Inner Circle'''). Though they each [[RAW|obey the letter, if not the spirit]] of the [[Codex Astartes]] and maintain mostly standard chapters of ten companies. The combined numbers of Dark Angel's successors would put them at around ''150,000 marines'', and this is just a rough estimate, though we don't know if all of the Dark Angel's successors actually consider themselves part of the Unforgiven. Some definitely do though. Oh yes indeed. The Inner Circle has been known to send a random successor chapter across the galaxy to do the space marine equivalent of getting them a six pack (of traitors) when the main chapter is too busy.
*[[Ultramarines]] - The 23 [[Second Founding]] chapters of the Ultramarines are all represented in the senate of [[Ultramar]] and some of them would cooperate on matters of Codex orthodoxy to ensure that there were no deviations. The [[Genesis Chapter]] in particular routinely loaned squads and officers to the Ultramarines to fill in gaps, while other successors could loan squads to the [[Ultramarines Honour Company]] and get to wear the blue uniform. Because the Ultramarines account for nearly half of the later-founded chapters in the Imperium, they would amount to around ''500,000 marines'' and nominally look to their progenitor for the source of their leadership and guidance, with instances of Marneus Calgar stepping in to settle disputes between chapters not even of his bloodline or issuing decrees against [[Minotaurs|chapters]] in matters that have nothing to do with the Ultramarines directly. With the return of [[Roboute Guilliman]] and his re-organisation of both the Codex and the region of Ultramar; even though chapters officially maintain their sovereignty apart from each other, he has formally created a cross-Chapter command structure of Tetrarchs to coordinate and protect the Five-Hundred Worlds.

All of the original legions maintain ties with with their subsequent founding chapters (except for the Salamanders, who don't have any confirmed successors, and ignore the unconfirmed ones), though the level of formality is different from Chapter to Chapter. The Blood Angels occasionally call all their bros together and go to war, even going to far as to demand they provide the Blood Angels with new squads so that they could rebuild their weakened chapter. The Imperial Fists successors did the same thing during the war of the Beast; donning Imperial Fist colours to ensure that the Chapter would not go extinct. But even in those cases, [[Gabriel Seth]] had to remind [[Dante]] that he had no authority to actually demand troops from his successors and might get further by asking nicely. The new Imperial Fists considered changing their colours controversial and a little bit blasphemous, with the [[High Lords of Terra]] generally protesting about Space Marines working in such close cooperation at all. While musing with Aeonid Thiel, Guilliman's original dream for the Codex was not to simply split up the Legions at all, but to create a single unified Legion formed of self-sufficient chapters that would come together or break apart as necessary, irrespective of their individual bloodlines, while making it harder for a taint in one chapter to effect the whole. Given the number of times multiple chapters from different legions have gotten together for a big crusade, he arguable succeed in this goal. Much of what goes on with the Ultramarines tended to done out of starry-eyed respect and deference towards them rather than grudging support, so in this case, their high level of cooperation appears to be following the spirit of Guilliman's original idea quite well. Obviously, the High Lords would prefer to think otherwise because they were scared to death of the possibility of a second Space Marine unification and uprising, even going so far as to plotting to overthrow the resurrected Lord Guilliman before he took control over the Senatorum (which instantly backfired when the Custodians got whiff of it in about ten minutes).

==Two Unknown Legions==

In the [[Rogue Trader|First Edition]] of [[Warhammer 40,000]], the twenty First Founding Chapters were all known. It seems that [[Games Workshop]] had more love for some than others; when they made [[fluff]] revisions in the transition to Second Edition, the [[Valedictors]] and [[Rainbow Warriors]] were demoted to one of the "Later Foundings."

Nowadays, <s>nothing</s> [[Horus_Heresy|little]] concrete is known about the Legions II and XI, and likewise their [[Primarch#Two Missing Primarchs|unknown Primarchs]]. Officially, the Imperium deleted all records regarding the "Lost Legions"; the only reminder of the two legions were empty plinths in the Hegemon where statues of the Primarchs stood at the Imperial Palace. Throughout the ''[[Horus Heresy]]'' series, it is suggested that the [[Space Wolves]] destroyed them for some reason. [[The Horus Heresy: Massacre]] includes a timeline of the events at the end of the [[Great Crusade]], and in 965 and 969.M30, the Space Wolves engaged in two missions from which all data was redacted. In the book ''The First Heretic'', when a daemon takes the [[Word Bearers]] on a trip back in time to show them the creation of the Primarchs, the Word Bearers dialogue indicates that the XI Legion in particular did something bad enough for the Emperor to lead their purge himself. In the book ''Fear To Tread'', Sanguinius tells Horus that he hasn't revealed the existence of the Red Thirst to the Emperor because he fears that the Blood Angels would be purged as well, indicating that gene-seed flaws may have also been a factor. ''Deliverance Lost'' has a dialogue between taking place during Corax's first meeting with the Emperor where he asks why only sixteen of his brothers were waiting to meet him if he was the nineteenth Primarch to be found, only for the Emperor to deflect the question; consequently, we can assume that the Legions were purged sometime before Corax's discovery (and were never around for the Horus Heresy). He also forced the remaining Primarchs to swear an oath never to speak of their absent brothers, so whatever they did must have been extraordinarily bad. In ''Legion,'' a ship's captain notes that the naughtiness of the [[Alpha Legion]] isn't the first time that a Legion has "overstepped it's mark" and that the Imperial Army fleet should report the Alpha Legion "before they become too powerful," which might imply that one of the Legions got away with naughtiness for a long time and then used their entire Legion to fight the Emperor. 'Horus Heresy Book 3: Extermination also hints at the fate of the two missing Legions, first hinting that one Legion did not pass the "Alpha" intake (to take them up to Legion-Strength) when going through testing and the other saying that "the disaster of [REDACTED] had proven the folly of attempting to recruit Legiones Astartes stock from potentially tainted sources." These could be in reference to the same Legion (using tainted stock in the Alpha intake) or two separate ones, with Legion A fucking up in the Alpha intake and Legion B using tainted stock in the later Great Crusade.

Since Horus and the other traitor Primarchs managed to keep their records un-expunged during the Horus Heresy (and afterwards, since the Space Wolves clearly know who Magnus is, the Grey Knights clearly know who Mortarion is, and Horus' name seems to have [[Lulz|become a swearword]]), it can be assumed the missing Legions' naughtiness was something even worse. [[Heresy|Possibly they refused to wear pauldrons]], [[Alpha Legion|we don't know]]. In The Palatine Phoenix, shortly before his Legion's first solo mission, [[Fulgrim]] notes that "even the normally contemplative master of the Second had broken his silence to accuse Fulgrim of hubris", so at least one of the missing Primarchs had spent some time around their brothers, and was active during the Great Crusade. In The Chamber at the End of Memory, Dorn said that very few among his brothers interacted with the II and the XI Primarch, and he was one of them. Millennia later during the [[Ultima Founding]], [[Cawl | Belisarius Cawl]] proposes using gene-seed from the II and XI legions to make Primaris marines, so there is either surviving genetic stock from the two Legions, or possibly actual legionaries that Cawl had been experimenting on for the last ten thousand years.

''The Chamber at the End of Memory'' revealed that not only the entire Imperium were forbidden to speak of the II and XI following their fall (which according to Malcador and Rogal Dorn was terrible enough to overshadow the '''''entire Horus Heresy up to the Siege of Terra''''') but those who had interacted with them were made to undergone mind-cleansing (or memory adjustment in the case of the Primarchs) so as to wipe out knowledge of the incidents. More interesting however was that Dorn and Gulliman came up with that idea to spare the Astartes from said two legions from death, and they allowed Macaldor to mind-wipe them all. There was a very good chance that these Astartes ended up with the Fists and the Ultramarines (as the theory above described).

Or there may simply be no missing Legions. According to a source who allegedly worked for Games Workshop for five years (seen [http://warhammer40000roguetrader.blogspot.com/2012/06/art-of-rogue-trader.html?showComment=1343572598289#c3841833106793028129 here]), Rick Priestley (who helped write the first Rogue Trader) read about the Roman notion of Damnatio Memoriae, and simply threw in the idea of two "missing" Space Marine Legions as a "nod" to Imperial Rome (specifically, the three Roman legions whose numbers ([[Word Bearers|XVII]], [[Salamanders|XVIII]] and [[Raven Guard|XIX]]) were never used after they were wiped out in the disastrous [[Wikipedia: Battle of the Teutoburg Forest| Battle of the Teutoburg Forest]]. So, nothing significant can ever be revealed about them, because they never really existed in the first place. Except they totally existed in the current canon, even if they started as a joke. Also, the real reason that they were kept around between Rogue Trader and recent revelations was so that people could make up their own pair of Primarchs for model painting and personal fanon (although this has lost its effect as doing so is synonymous with making them Mary Sues).

Although one possible name for at least one of the legions is the [[Stormcast Eternals]].

==See Also==
* [[Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k)|30k Legion Tactics]]

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