2d4chan - User contributions [en]

FATAL

2022-12-17T18:41:41Z

2601:41:C77F:9B60:1CE:AE05:ACA2:2D81:

{{Fail}}
{{Template:Heresy}}
{{/d/}}
{{sick|Source of the [[Anal Circumference]] meme, and tons of other gross stuff.}}
[[Image:FakeFATALlogo.gif|center]]
[[Image:Fatal cover.jpg|300px|thumb|right|The cover of the "sanitized" edition]]
''Were you looking for [[FATAL_card_game|F.A.T.A.L. the card game]]? Please tell us you were looking for the card game.

{{Topquote|So basically, FATAL is the date rape RPG.|Darren MacLennan in his and Jason Sartin's infamous review}}

{{Topquote|Another faulty conclusion by Darren. '''Where is dating included?'''|Byron Hall, proving everyone right}}

A copy of '''Fantasy Adventure to Adult Lechery''' is what would pop out of [[Slaanesh]] if she raped [[Tzeentch]] while using a bong as a condom. It is, in theory, an [[RPG]] that lets [[neckbeards]] live out their rape fantasies. The gaming community has more or less unanimously come to the conclusion that FATAL (aka "The Date Rape RPG... without the dating") is simply the worst RPG ever conceived... at least, those that haven't encountered [[Racial Holy War|RaHoWa]], but then, that game is much less well known, so much the better for us, and in comparison there have been actual documented attempts to actually play FATAL, amazingly enough. Probably never in earnest, though, perhaps even by its bonemongeringly unhinged authors.

F.A.T.A.L. is, truly, a blasphemous merger of [[METAL]] and [[FAIL]]. And of [[John Norman]].

The rulebook (written by one [[Byron Hall]] and a few of his friends, who go by nicknames such as [[Edgy|"Torturon", "Burnout", and "Satan"]]) is as terribly mechanically written as it is obsessed with bizarre sexual perversions that make [[/d/]] seem prudish by comparison. It is filled with enough pointless random charts and obscure rules to deter even a veteran [[/d/M]] who has played ''[[Rolemaster]]'' for years. Quadratic equations are a requirement of most game mechanics. The [[Anal circumference]] table [[meme]] originates with FATAL. The game was apparently revised and given a new name for the acronym; '''From Another Time, Another Land''' makes minor changes to the text (read: removes the racist magical armor) but is still an abortion of gaming.

The FATAL Games website is now thankfully defunct. The current page is your average parked domain crap. However, some [[fags of 4chan|fine gentlemen]] at the Wayback Machine have archived it in all its [[FAIL|neon-on-black-plastered-with-animated-gifs glory]]. [http://web.archive.org/web/20030205182630/www.fatalgames.com/fatal.html Enter at your own risk.]

It sparked a "review" by MacLennan & Sartin, which was really more of a profanity-laden rant (admittedly a common reaction to the game), and this "review" in turn provoked a "rebuttal" from the game's creators. Reading the exchange between the two is almost guaranteed to cause brain damage. To sum it up, the "reviewers" spent most of their time talking about the various kinds of torture that would be preferable to playing the game, and the various kinds of torture they'd like to inflict on its creators, and how mentally ill and/or socially awkward they imagine its creators must be, and so on, though legitimate criticisms were also made which anyone could say would justify their invective (see "mechanics" section below. Or don't, if you'd rather preserve your last shriveled speck of faith in humanity).

The game's creators, not to be outdone, turned their ability to totally miss the point on full blast and showed the world a level of detail-obsessed pedantry that had been previously considered impossible. Their counterarguments included: "Facial Charisma is not how good you look. It’s how good ''your face'' looks", "I believe what Sartin is looking for is Enunciation, not Rhetorical Charisma", and "Enunciation is better termed a sub-ability than a stat". They also attempted to defend governing something as simple as urination with a formula as complex as '''d100 + Urination Skill Points + (average of Health and Hand-Eye Coordination skill modifiers) +/- ("Time Since Last Urination vs. Ounces Drunk" modifier)''', without even attempting to justify why urinating is a skill that exists. They DID attempt to justify why it's possible to have an average speaking speed higher than your maximum speaking speed, but their justification had something to do with conflating "random" distributions with "even" distributions in order to claim that bell curve distributions aren't random, and... look, you were warned about the brain damage, okay?

==Setting==

Want the details? You do. Courtesy of the 1d4chan authors who had to pause for throwing up many times over many months, here we go:

It's pre-Christian Europe (more specifically, a hodgepodge of medieval Europe and the Roman Empire) with a bit of Semitic cultural immigration. <s>Nephilim</s> Anakim exist as winged sexy humans, the closest thing to the Judeo-Christian God is actually the result of a normal spell that makes a bush burn with magical fires in perpetuity and gives cryptic answers along with "I Am What I Am", suggesting Moses just did a random spell and thought it was YHWH speaking. It is a mix of Rome's darkest stereotypes meets Viking myths, but every race is as fuck-tarded as the creators. The Anakim are almost all slaves(even though their extreme stats can easily earn them a dominant position in society). Their males have enormous penises and random quirks that makes them fit for a horror game rather than erotic fantasy, their females being shapely sluts with similar weird shit going on. The Bugbears are bronze age Vikings that go so [[Edgy]] that would make [[Drowtales]] seem tame by comparison, raping everyone they don't kill in coastal raids and taking the survivors to "Processing Centers", slave pits with ''extremely'' torturous workpits with no productivity in mind but making the worst piss-shit-torture-dehumanization porn play in a game that's full of that crap. Human women die 100% in stillborn childbirth raped by Bugbears but they keep them from killing themselves just for fun. Bugbear "scientists" vivisect and rape human slaves for "education", and magic is state-monopolized, and Bugbear clans support Bugbear criminals raping and killing in other races' lands. [[Magical Realm|Bugbear women have no names, and daughters are "brought to adolescence" by their fathers]]. Light Elves are relatively tame, but they still beat the shit out of trespassers and starve criminals slowly to death, and [[Wat|women have to play a flute as they are getting fucked to determine the child's character]]. Dark Elves have weekly masturbation contests, live under trees and rape/kill trespassers, and fuck each other's asses (anal only) in masked gatherings. Subterranean Trolls have a punishment system of hitting genitals with a hammer, male trolls have to kidnap a human woman as a slave present to be enslaved/raped/killed/eaten, and if the female refuses the gift, the male takes the woman to be dismembered alive. Ogres are cannibals (I don't know much about this setting, but that sounds really damn tame compared to everything else), Hill Trolls are sick fucks that get hard touching the brains of caught and slaughtered humans and like to fuck brain matter and the corpses before eating them. Humans are no better: being caught performing magic means getting raped and burned alive publicly, butchers regularly add human meat from cheaper slaves and dead humans to pork mix, brothels and slavery is rampant, and even the priests join nightly gang-rape groups that are neither persecuted, nor stigmatized, nor punished.

Gore, cannibalism, slavery, /d/, [[/pol/|racism]] pentifecta:

[[Magical Realm]] at its finest.

==Mechanics==
...Are you sure? Are you ''absolutely'' sure?

...Okay, you asked for it.

The GM is called the "Aedile", because that's an actual Latin-derived word for 'master of the coliseum games', or 'game-master' for short. What is it with authors of explicitly smutty rpg materials like this and "The Book of Erotic Fantasy" that they have to be [[Cato Sicarius|pretentious dicks]] about it? (Answer: Because in the original version he was... wait for it... the '''Maim'''Master. You may now groan.)

The intro says you only need to know a little algebra, "and even that is relatively rare." It also says you only need two d10. Both of these are '''filthy fucking lies'''. Ability scores are derived from averaging 'sub-abilities' rolled as '''(10[[d100]]/5)-1''' and modified by one of three different types of percentages, and conditions during the game may change your sub-abilities which means you need to recalculate your ability scores on-the-fly. Ability score checks are 3d10, so no you need more than two dice.

Apparently you'll need this "little algebra" because [[what|you solve quadratic formulas to find out whether or not your rape slave is pregnant]]. Then you roll [[What|d10,000,000]] to find out if she's going to have quintuplets. [[Rage|What the fuck]].

The character sheet is '''eleven pages long'''. There are 20 sub-abilities (including "Enunciation" and "Spatial Intelligence"; also note that by this point in chargen you have already rolled your 2d10 eighty times), which determine 5 ability scores. The ethics system is a D&D good-evil/lawful-chaotic using "ethics" which is described vaguely differently from "morals" (both of which are based on a butchered reading of Aristotelian philosophy), four different "temperament" scores based on bodily humours (and by the way, the book dedicated '''23 PAGES''' to describing your alignment alone), a primary and secondary temperament in addition to that, and a disposition that is different from that too(which is another 22 pages long). On the second page of the character sheet are the following essential measurements: manhood length, manhood circumference, [[anal circumference]] potential, vaginal circumference potential, vaginal depth potential, areola diameter, nipple length, cup size, tongue size, hymen resistance, areola hue, foot size, fist circumference, head circumference, handedness. These measurements are ''essential'', because during combat your roll may cause you to accidentally start raping your opponent, and how many hitpoints they lose depends on the mismatch between the circumference of your appendage and their orifice. In case you missed some of that: '''it is possible to accidentally rape an opponent to death during normal combat.''' THEN you have to roll for other things like your height and weight (and then calculate your BMI based on those), most and least attractive features, hair color, skin color, visual acuity, age (which also acts as a modifier for all those abilities and sub-abilities, forcing you to go back and change all those stats again), a check to see if your Intelligence score is low enough to qualify for "[[Stupid|Retard Strength]]" bonuses, birthday, social class, birthplace, number of siblings, and marital status.

In other words, roll randomly for just about everything that any other game system would allow the player to choose for themselves, in the unlikely event that they desperately needed to know the precise size of your foot to the nearest hundredth of an inch.

Among the '''four-hundred and eighteen skills''' each character must keep track of are "Basketweaving" (Hand-Eye, Common Sense), "Clockmaking" (Spatial), "Delousing" (Hand-Eye), "Glovemaking" (Spatial), "Massage" (Kinetic Charisma, Hand-Eye), "Spitting" (Enunciation), and even "Urinating". [[Wat|Yes, pissing is a skill. Yes, you can fail your rolls to piss]], which as you could see in the last section are far more complex than they could possibly need to be.

A character's body has '''seventeen hit-locations''', each with independent hit-point totals, each with their own armour equipment slots, and each of the seventeen pieces of armour have four different types of damage resistance (brawling, hacking, pounding and stabbing).

Magical items range from the mostly useless, to the suicidally dangerous, to the ''completely insane''. Here's a list of notable ones.
*Philter of (race name) Lust: Drink this and every being of the race listed within 100 feet will try to fuck you.
*Cloak of Self-Craving: The wearer will try to perform oral sex on themselves, possibly breaking his/her neck in the process.
*Chastity Belt of Cursed Impregnation: The wearer is knocked up. The difference between this and the uncursed version is that the cursed version always makes the unborn child a girl. Really.
*Jar of Jacking Off: "Whenever a male opens this jar, they must pass a Drive sub-ability check at TH 80 or be compelled to force their fuckstick into the jar. Once inside, the jar will inexplicably grip it firmly and jerk it to completion, even against the will of the opener. Upon completion, the cummer[sic] must roll percentile dice. If the results are 01-10, then the jar becomes pregnant. If the jar is pregnant, it will not allow itself to be opened, but will care for the fetus within, which will be heard screaming by others within 1d100 feet day and night. After 9 months of fetal torture, the child will be born and the jar will break. If the jar is broken during its pregnancy, then the dying and twitching fetus will explode after 1d6 rounds of twitching. The explosion will cause 1d4 Life Points of sonic damage to all within 1d4 miles. Baby parts are inexplicably everywhere. When born, the baby will be Unethical Immoral (translation: Chaotic Evil), will serve the father loyally, will obsessively collect jars, and seem to be male but have no penis, but oversized testicles, which can never ejaculate. Therefore, this child will be forever frustrated. Any child of a jar will insist that others call them “Chucky." What a reference to the ''Child's Play'' movies is doing in a "historically/mythically accurate RPG" is anyone's guess. Interestingly, this seems to have partially inspired Death Stranding. In hindsight we should have all known Hideo Kojima would be a [[/d/M]].
*Seed of Hate: Planting this seed in front of a druid's house causes a tree to grow that makes everything hate the druid in question. The only way to kill a tree that resulted from this seed is for the druid to start having anal sex with random animals until he sows a "seed of love". This may cause him to develop a bestiality fetish.
*Mirror of Many: A ripoff of the mirror from Evil Dead.
*[[The Lord of the Rings|Ring of the Lords]]: It's the fucking One Ring.
*Cursed Dildo of Impregnation: The user is impregnated with another dildo, which is likely to kill her.
*(weapon) of Ravishing: The user will occasionally try to rape random women with the weapon, which will somehow impregnate them with another rapist-weapon (that kills them upon giving "birth" to it).
* [[/pol/|Armor of Jewy Jewbacca: "Whosoever dons this armor will acquire a nose twice the size and a manhood half the size. Further, the wearer will become extremely greedy and fight to the death for one silver piece]]. Finally, the wearer acquires 2 inches of hair all over their body, resulting in halving their Facial Charisma and Bodily Attractiveness. While hairy, the wearer must bathe every 1d6 hours or smell foul." There are three other armors just like this which turn the wearer into an ethnic stereotype with no benefits whatsoever. According to Byron, this was supposed to be "controversial humor". So funny everyone forgot to laugh.
*The other armors, if you wanted to satisfy your morbid curiosity:
** [[/pol/|Armour of Nigrous Nincompoopery: Whosoever dons this armour experiences a loss of 1d100 points from each sub-ability of Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma.]] The ass of the wearer will grow by 50% and be abnormally high. If the wearer is male, then those around him are 80% likely to believe that his manhood has increased, though it has not. The skin of the wearer becomes cursed and dark as night. Disposition turns to [[Alignment#Chaotic_Evil|Unethical Immoral]]. Temperament becomes phlegmatic. The eyes of the wearer are visible 3 miles away at night. The wearer will have a body odour for 1d10 feet. On the bright side, the Physical Fitness of the wearer increases by 10%. The armour may be removed at will. Also the name translates to "Armour of Nigger Retardation". Smooth.
** Armour of Gookums: Whosoever dons this armour experiences an increase of 1d20 points of Intelligence in each sub-ability and is reduced to 80% of natural Height. The eyelids of the wearer will swell as though hit with a maul, and Vision is reduced to 25%. Most importantly, the Manhood or Cup Size is reduced to 50%. Strangely, the ass of the wearer will shrink, drop, and droop.
** Armour of Greasians: Whosoever wears this armour acquires hair that is greasy and dark, they lose half of their Drive sub-ability, are reduced to 90% of natural Height, are 80% likely to beat their spouse if they have one, and will be magically unemployed for 1d100 days. However, if the wearer plays drums, the wearer gets a bonus of 1d100 to their skill check.
*(weapon) of Torturon: The wielder becomes obsessed with removing his victim's eyes and shoving them into the victim's nose. They also take up sunbathing naked on top of cottages. Okay, that's oddly specific and rather disturbing, especially given that one of Byron Hall's friends is called Torturon...

The magic system is split into ceremonial magic (which is situational at best and often utterly useless for doing anything you might actually need) and chaos magic (which requires you to perform a ritual that requires a roll on a large-ass syllable chart in case it requires a chant to perform, some random ingredients you might not even be able to acquire, and can take days to perform the required ritual). An example of a few spells follows; italicized spell names are ceremonial magic, and everything else is chaos magic:
*''Against Every Wild Animal, Aquatic Creature, and Robbers'': Keeps wild animals, aquatic creatures, and robbers away from you. Everything else that can kill you can still do so.
*Call God: Summons a god. The rulebook specifically states that whatever god in question will not be happy about being summoned and will probably kill the caster.
*''Eternal Spell for Binding a Lover'': Smear the listed ingredients on the head of your dick, and when you fuck someone with it they'll beg you to stick it in them at least once a day. (Numerous other "love spells" with similar effects are also present.)
*Fatal: [[Exterminatus|Kills everything on whatever horrid world the game takes place on, including the user.]] If only every game started with this spell being cast.
*Force Fart: Forces the target to fart, obviously.
*Have Her Cadaver: Cast this on a dead woman and she'll look, sound, smell, taste, and feel just like she was alive but unconscious. The spell description explicitly states that it is meant to aid necrophilia. Draw your own conclusions.
*Oroanal: The victim's mouth now doubles as his anus (or vice versa). Did we mention that the effects of this spell are permanent?
*Perpetual Orgasm:...take a fucking guess. The rulebook mentions that not only does this kill the target, but also that they continue to have an orgasm even after they die.
*Prognathism: The target's skull becomes prognathous - the lower half extends, the upper half retracts, Intelligence sub-abilities will be reduced by 15% and the target's speech will become "slang". [[/pol/|Yes, this is what you think]].
*''Test of Pregnancy'': Self-explanatory, and disturbingly likely to be necessary.
*Wish: Like the DnD version, but the GM is encouraged to be [[That Guy|as literal as possible, even picking a definition of the word at random if word has multiple definitions]]. A character wishes for a lot of gold? He gets several thousand pounds of gold bars. Dropped on top of him.

And then there are the miscast tables, which have a variety of notably bizarre effects, including but certainly not limited to:
*The next shit you take coming to life and trying to kill you.
*Fruit growing out of the caster's penis/vagina, which can be consumed for stat bonuses.
*Gay ogres popping out of nowhere and trying to have buttsex with everyone nearby. [[Meme|It's all ogre now]].
*A "scratch and sniff" vagina appears on the caster's head.
*An eyeball appears on the caster's penis, and can somehow act as a lie detector.
*The target's skin turns black. [[/pol/|"Aedile may decide appropriate penalties."]]
*A gerbil falls out of the target's asshole.
*The caster or target become compelled to say ridiculous shit that sounds like it was ripped off from death metal.
*The nearest woman is convinced that her name is "Cuntrina", and insists that everyone nearby refers to her as such.
*A disembodied penis with wings appears and tries to rape everything nearby.
*Accidentally consuming the enemy while being raped.
*Accidentally cast FATAL (see above). Everybody hopes to get this one.
And many, many more.

Classes are no less peculiar- they range from the standard fare of Warriors, Mages, and the like to things which no sane person would play (such as Delousers, Inkmakers, and of course Whores, who get a longer write-up than most other classes combined save for the ones with giant tables). Every class earns AP (the equivalent of experience points) in different ways, and in some cases it is earned so slowly that a character (or even their player) can die of old age before they even reach level 2.

TL;DR: It takes all the overcomplexity of World of Synnibar - which, I shit you not, had an equation to show how hard you could breathe - took out the lore, classes and just about everything else that made Synnibar worth a damn, added so many sexual perversions (which the introduction has the '''sheer fucking audacity''' to claim as being present due to "historic/mythical relevance") that it would make ''Slaanesh'' look twice, and shat out one of the worst RPG systems ever conceived.

==External Links==
===Files===
*[http://web.archive.org/web/20030228195602/http://www.hyperbooks.com/fatal/fatal.pdf 2003's "Fantasy Adventure to Adult Lechery" the 1st Edition of FATAL]
**'''(DO NOT EXPOSE GAME TO FACE. <s>FIRE IS BETTER ALTERNATIVE.</s> BURNING IT IS A GRAVE [[HERESY]] TO FIRE. FIRE ON FACE IS BETTER ALTERNATIVE TO GAME.)'''
*[http://web.archive.org/web/20040413024552/http://www.hyperbooks.com/fatal/fatal.pdf 2004's "From Another Time, Another Land" the 2nd edition]
**Sanitized, removes some of the nigger jokes and child-anus-tearing rape. What a truly depressing display of "The Man's censorship".
*<s>URL for random character generator needed</s> <s>[http://www.mediafire.com/file/ff39h4t8cfp8c7f/FATAL+Character+Generator.rar Random Character Generator] And the link is broken...</s> <s> [http://www.mediafire.com/file/9x76g2l1hol30uq/FATAL_Character_Generator.exe New link for the sick and curious.] '''You have been warned.'''</s> Broken too, <s>un</s>fortunately. <s>[https://www.mediafire.com/file/r9wfdovrb2iqtaf/FATAL_Character_Generator%25282%2529.exe The Even Newer Link!]</s> Also broken [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LynIUHwOTIywsddLby3mOemfacUUfXtP/view?usp=sharing Now hosted on Google Drive] , since the FATAL [https://i.imgur.com/SjpAXGo.png devs somehow DMCA'd] the previous attempts at sharing here via MediaFire. Here's hoping Byron Hall can't stop this one.
*[https://archive.org/details/FromAnotherTimeAnotherLand/Fantasy%20Adventure%20to%20Adult%20Lechery All the FATAL sourcebooks. Every single one. Byron Hall himself put them on the Archive, so he must have wanted everyone to see them.]

===Reviews===
*The (in)famous [http://web.archive.org/web/20080208091645/http://atrocities.primaryerror.net/fatal.html Review] of FATAL, courtesy of the Wayback Machine ([http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14567.phtml Updated, non-Geocities version]).
*The [http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/FATALReviewRebuttal "rebuttal" to said review] in which the author and one of his friends dig their own graves. It's comedy gold, in a disgusting and shameful sort of way, but you'll probably laugh your ass off regardless.
*A group of Irish roleplayers taking a crack at doing character creation. It goes as well as you'd expect. [http://theadventuringparty.libsyn.com/character-creation-may-2011-from-another-time-another-land]
*The [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy8hjxHuRHk official theme song (no, really) of FATAL]
*Famous TV tropes [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=7ixhxjqoe9swz1xv4bxgw5h0 discussion] thread with numerous tries to get through FATAL.
*[https://systemmasterypodcast.com/2017/02/27/rifts-parts-1-system-mastery-70-2/ System Mastery podcast review] They only do it cause it was a Patreon goal.
*[http://www.somethingawful.com/dungeons-and-dragons/fatal-worst-rpg/1/ Reasons] not to review FATAL
*[https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/18d80q/okay_everyone_wanted_more_detail_about_the_fatal Playreport] by samtravis on reddit
*[http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?153581-FATAL-A-Campaign-Journal Playreport] by Dust on giantitp.com

==Gallery==
<center>
<gallery>
Image:Fatalexplained.jpg
Image:Fatal-what01.jpg
Image:Fatal-what02.jpg
Image:Fatal-what04.jpg
Image:OddlySpecific.JPG
Image:Spaceballs_and_FATAL.png
Image:Fatalalignment.jpg|A completely original and not at all derivative set of alignments. Though admittedly, this is much better named than the D&D alignment system.
File:Worth Playing.png|Yes, this actually happened. [http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/42780325/#p42780693]
File:Sorcerers_and_Spermlords_The_mundane_reality.jpg
File:Roleplaying_MILFS_(Fatal_Reality)_.jpeg
</gallery>
</center>

==See Also==
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVKRf3b9fPo Afreemanornot's cursory review of FATAL]
* [[Black Tokyo]], The sexual perversions of Black Tokyo make FATAL look like a 40 y/o lossless virgin, but its heritage as a d20 modern supplement renders it actually playable (which makes it worse the more you think about it since you can't use the excuse of it being unplayable to avoid it like you can to FATAL). [http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?searchall=Black+Tokyo]
* [[GURPS Sex]]
* [[Racial Holy War]], another game that is widely considered to be way worse. You can not actually play this game. Yes, it's pretty much what the name makes it sound like.
* [[The Aristocrats, FATAL-style]]
* [[VTNL]], a Russian game which is a serious contender to being even worse than FATAL. It was designed for 14 years, by a complete buffoon who ignored everything RPG related during that time, to keep his original vision. It has rules for how to properly roll dice, and the GM is encouraged to punch the players in the face, if they fail to roll according to them.
[[Category:Roleplaying]][[Category:FAIL]]

Slavery

2022-12-17T18:08:18Z

2601:41:C77F:9B60:1CE:AE05:ACA2:2D81: /* Slavery in Warhammer 40,000 */

{{sick|Only [[/pol/|sick fucks]] would ever justify enslaving a fellow human being.}}
[[image:Slaves sugar cane.jpg|thumb|300px|right|Slaves harvesting sugar cane, not a lot fun for them. It is really good in tea, though.]]
{{Topquote|I came here in peace, seeking gold and slaves.|Jack Handey, ''What I'd Say to the Martians''}}
{{Topquote|No! We are true men, not slaves! I would sooner choose death than to betray my god and serve the likes of you!|A certain [[Chaos|Forsaken tribesman]], made a <s>foolish</s> bold decision to reject Nagash's slavery, and was devoured alive moments later by Nagash's ghouls. AKA getting exactly what he wants.}}

'''Slavery''' is the institution of owning other humans ([[Hard Science Fiction|as well as other sapient]] [[Soft Science Fiction|beings by extrapolation]]) as property. As slaves are bound to their owners, they were prevented from leaving or refusing to work under threat of immediate violence for disobedience. When two groups would fight, it was not uncommon for the victor to capture some of the defeated along with the goods or territory and put them to work. Later on, as long-distance trade improved, they also began selling said captives to other cultures. The children of slaves usually were slaves themselves, though this was not universal.

In other cases, people would be put into slavery as a punishment, e.g. for failure to pay their debts, or voluntarily such as an alternative to paying for something. Some systems of slavery even offered opportunities for, like the Devshirmeh system in Ottoman Empire, where boys taken from among Christian vassals who were bright enough could actually end up as Grand Vizier of the Empire (with a few caveats; they had to be smart and all of them had to be converted to Islam willingly or not... either way they weren't allowed to stay Christian).

In addition to the practice of owning human beings as chattel, there are other contemporary and historical arrangements so similar to slavery that they are referred to as slavery informally or at that point in history. A few of these include serfdom ([[Peasant|serfs]] were not owned, but they were bound to the land owned by [[noble]]s and are required to work the noble's land 2-3 days per week for free and keep what else they could grow-keep-trade), indentured servitude or peonage in colonial America (in exchange for passage to the new world being paid, criminal fines or to discharge a debt in a form of unpaid or coerced labor called debt bondage, someone would be indentured to a contract holder and have to work off their debt over a number of years such as British criminals and Irish people too poor to pay for the trip), impressment and shanghaiing (where people were kidnapped or tricked into leaving from home ports or ships and forced to serve as sailors with said debt not being hereditary, often with their identification papers or debts held over their heads to keep them in line), unreasonable use of unpaid labor such as some more extreme versions of prisons or POW interment facilities, and the various forced labor programs used by the [[Nazi|Nazis]] and other despotic regimes and the victims of human trafficking which is still ongoing today.

Presently it's generally acknowledged that humans cannot be considered ''real assets'', although there remain locations where this is not an absolute, and only the most extreme activists consider this to be a universal right that should be extended to other organisms. And there are very few countries that have addressed the more tricky issues of conscription, prison labor, and non-dischargeable debt.

Economically slavery is... tricky. At the first glance it looks like free labour, meaning easy way of getting rich without paying your workers. But slavery have lots of hidden expenses, most notably on security and overseeing work, making it not nearly as free as it looks. Furthermore, most slaves are unfit for any sophisticated work, being way worse motivated in the result of their labour than hired workers. That's not to say you can't have slave engineers, teachers or other high-intelligence jobs, but historically it only worked by giving said highly skilled slaves so much freedom and privilege they end up more like contracted workers with no way of getting out of the contracts, and not much (if any) cheaper than free people doing the same job, so the only upside is that they don't run away from you and tell your secrets to your enemies. For this reason in most cultures for the overwhelming length of history slaves were a luxury, not really a means of creating wealth, unless you happen to have highly profitable industry with very low skill requirement, like strip mining in antiquity (deep mining required way more skill), cotton farming in new age or textile sweatshops in modern times. Even then it have another hidden detriment: slaves don't consume as much as free people, so they put a giant handbrake on the economy, hampering the circulation of the capital and generally making everyone, including even slave owners, poorer compared to the same economy running on hired labour instead of slavery. In short, slavery excels at making nobles or their equivalents in society richer than plebs, but not at making them richer than "nobles" of other societies that don't run on slavery. One of the reasons modern slavery only survived in third-world countries is partly because they're shitholes that still use slavery that cannot afford to "cash out" their slaves and transition to a traditional economy.

== History stuff ==
{{skubby}}
The oldest surviving codex of laws yet discovered in the world, the "Code of Ur-Nammu" dating back to at least 2050 BCE, has multiple references to slaves, so slavery has been with humanity for a ''very'' long time. Slavery was practiced in virtually every culture at some point throughout their history; as soon as a people progressed from a hunter-gathering and nomadic culture to an agrarian one it became more convenient to look for ways to increase productivity and lower expenses. Before the advent of modern machinery, often the best way was some flavor of slave workforce since you generally had to spend fewer resources on a slave than you would on your fellow clan member. That said, it was unusual for a society to have more than 10% of it's population as slaves.

Prisoners of war were taken as slaves and made to ply their trade for their conquerors, or were sold abroad for goods. Since civilizations would wax and wane from time to time, the enslavers of one generation might end up enslaved in the next. The Ancient Egyptians made use of slaves in various ways, though even then, there was something of a hierarchy among slaves. That being said, contrary to popular belief, the pyramids weren't built by slaves but by free people (paid in fresh crops grown on the most fertile and irrigated lands in Egypt owned directly by the pharaoh and worked by said pharaoh's personal slaves, as well as good amounts of meat). The Greeks made heavier-than-usual use of slaves, and the Romans even more so. The Persians did not use slavery themselves and tried to limit it, but slavery did exist in their Empire among their conquered vassals. Slaves worked in every field from miners (who were quickly worked to death) to farmers, to factory workers and skilled craftsmen. Other examples range from the [[Grimdark]] examples of sex slaves or fodder for human sacrifice (the latter being something the Aztecs were notorious for), to non dark examples such as entertainers, teachers and doctors (particularly Greeks who could buy their freedom in a year, or even less if skilled) and even up to high ranking government officials in the Empire. Ancient Romans used to grumble about all these slaves coming in stealing people's jobs (this sentence is not a joke).

Slavery existed in [[Medieval Stasis|Medieval Europe]], but declined after the year 1000 CE in a lot of places, especially the north. The Domesday Book (a census carried out by William the Conqueror in 1086) stipulated that about 10% of the population of England was slaves. In fact, the basis for the modern English word slave gets its roots from the fact that the Slavic races were so often put upon that [[Grimdark|the ordeal was named after them]], also providing the first example of race-based slavery. The Vikings practiced slavery, acquiring them primarily on expeditions or raids in Eastern Europe and the British Isles. They could also obtain Viking slaves at home (as crimes like murder and thievery were punished with slavery) or through doing business with the Arab world, which also had a prominent slave trade. The Vikings' treatment of slaves was all over the spectrum. When Arabs, and later the Europeans, discovered the continent of Africa, there was much contact between local tribes and foreigners on this subject. Many nations would take slaves from the peoples of Africa abetted at times by local slavery systems among African people themselves (see below). [[Grimdark|In Brazil and most of the Caribbean between 1600 and 1800, the slave population never was able to achieve natural replacement rates due to a high death rate from overwork and abuse by their masters]]. The American system of slavery (aka "the peculiar institution") would arguably require an entire article of its own, but since we'd rather not try to poke that hornet's nest, suffice to say it was little different from the Caribbean experience and was only abolished by President Abraham Lincoln as a result of the American Civil War (and was one of the reasons Lincoln was assassinated). In Europe, society eventually transition from using slaves to serfs where they were tied to the land (which is owned and under the protection of a landowner) instead of being tied directly to owners under the feudal system. The said system hung on until the Black Death but held out in Eastern Europe right until the eve of World War I.

During this aforementioned time, the idea of racial slavery was raised. In the Classical World (for example, Ancient Rome), slaves were basically from everywhere in the Empire and many places beyond and the children of freed slaves (Libertus) in Rome became more Romans, and Rome being Rome, they even had the manumission (freeing) of slaves as a religious/bureaucratic ritual onto itself. While if Slavic people are considered a race, they were the first case of racial slavery due to being popular choices of slaves. Ideas raised in attempts to justify the idea arose between the Arab Slave Trade and the Atlantic Slave Trade. Slavery is not a nice thing even at the best of times, but racial slavery adds to it the conception that an enslaved race is inherently inferior, doomed to servitude forever, and that people from it are unfit for anything else. Those caught up in it had little hope of ever elevating themselves from a state of being a form of livestock with the hands for manual labor. Slave ships sailed from Europe to Africa loaded with manufactured goods, textiles and weapons which they traded for prisoners of war, criminals and existing slaves. They were packed in like sardines to be shipped to the new world, collecting sugar, rum, coffee and other goods produced by slave labor to sell them in the mother countries.

Africa has had slavery between its various tribes and kingdoms for millennia, even to the present day. Between this and many foreign civilizations making extensive use of African slaves, the history of slavery in Africa is complicated and violent. In Africa, even prior to the Arab slave trade or the Atlantic/European slave trade, slavery happened in all forms from ancient times. This was enacted between many of the various tribes and nations of Africa; however, in many African societies where slavery was prevalent, the enslaved people were not treated as chattel slaves and had certain rights in a system similar to indentured servitude elsewhere in the world. When the Arab slave trade - and centuries later, the Atlantic slave trade - began, many of the local slave systems began supplying captives for slave markets outside Africa. They also supplied local criminals and captives from rival tribes or nations to the Arab, European or American slave trades. This means African slave traders short-sightedly helped fan the flames of the issue of racial slavery, unaware of the dehumanization these buyers would subject them to - and that's before the Scramble for Africa caused many of them to become slaves themselves.

While black Africans were shipped to the Americas as slaves in huge numbers, they weren't the only victims of slavery there. Many Native Americans were enslaved by colonial powers, especially the Spanish and Portuguese. That said, the influence of humanitarian-minded Catholic clergy eventually led to positive reforms in the treatment of these indigenous peoples, though these improvements weren't always enforced properly. Native Americans were also known to practice slavery themselves, either on their own initiative or due to influence from colonialists. One famous example of the former are the Haida of the Pacific Northwest, who frequently engaged in maritime slave raids against other tribes, almost like Native American Vikings. When it comes to the latter, the Five Civilized Tribes adopted the practice of owning black slaves. Some members of these tribes fought for the Confederacy, frequently because they wanted to keep their slaves.

North African corsairs were notorious for their frequent slave raids against merchant ships and coastal settlements. They struck as far north as Iceland and as far south as the Congo. Foreign nations were expected to pay tribute to avoid having their vessels and towns attacked. Such raids began in the 16th century and didn't end until the French conquest of the Algerian coast in the 1830s.

In the Ottoman Empire, whose system can ''arguably'' be seen as similar to the Eastern Roman Empire (better known as the Byzantine Empire) it supplanted, the system was more or less the same, but with a small possibility of moving up if you were a Christian (or claiming to be one) because Christians and Jews are considered "people of the Book", meaning the worthiest of non-Muslim people according to Islam. It had three sources of slaves: The first was Africa, with the usual [[Grimdark]] fate for blacks brought by the thousands, many castrated and dying during transport, females ending up as house slaves and non-castrated males working agriculture in Egypt and Anatolia as ''fellahin'' (though the descendants of said slaves could and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmet_Ali_%C3%87elikten did] have success stories). The second was the slave-port of Caffa, the most underreported and forgotten white slavery port which took ''millions'' of white slaves from Ukraine, males killed and women sold as sex slaves ([[SJW|you don't get to hear much about it because they are not black]]). ''Devshirmeh'' is the name for the system of taking one boy out of 40 houses from the population of Christian vassals in the Ottoman Empire; this mostly meant Balkan Christians, with the inclusion of Bosniak Muslims while Armenians, Romani and Jews were explicitly excluded. The taken boys were converted to Islam one way or another, then made into elite monastic troops called Janissaries (new soldiers) in Anatolia or the Mamluks in Egypt. If they proved intelligent, they were sent to the Imperial Academy in Enderun to become bureaucrats. Being slaves, they had no ''habeas corpus'' and could be executed at any time - in theory. In practice, while the threat hanging over their heads was very real, they could also push back against this by working their way into military ranks, marrying Ottoman princesses, engineering palace coups to kill off sultans who didn't pay them enough, or even investing back in their native countries such as Bosnia (the reason Bosniaks mourned the fall of the Janissary institution while EVERYONE ELSE celebrated it). The dangers of the ''devshirmeh'' system didn't stop some families from actively sending their kids there in desperation, often to the point of bribing the Janissary Aghas. A similar situation exists in Egypt with the Mamluks; who were typically taken as children from the local Christian Copts by their Arab rulers.

Female slaves in the Ottoman Empire didn't get as many opportunities, with the "best" option allowed to them being to end up as palace concubines. But this contained more backstabbing than a Tzeentchian party, and few died peacefully. Ironically, many concubines who ended up marrying Viziers or military officers ended up in better positions than concubines who were gunning for the top spot (The Sultan rewarded success with concubines he didn't use- talk about sloppy seconds. Or VERY rarely, [[Loli|one of his daughters]].). With the advent of nationalism, the French Revolution, Russia conquering Ukraine and destroying the Muslim-Tatar slavery business ([[Alignment#Lawful_Evil|If only to preserve their white serf population]]) and the growing need for military reforms bitterly opposed by the Janissaries, the system's flaws burst like rotting cysts, and Ottoman-style slavery went the way of the Dodo in 1847 thanks to [[Noblebright|Abdulmajid's reforms]]. The harem was numerous enough by then, and the freed whites went on with their lives while the black population [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Turks settled in Western Turkey as free farmers]. Slavery didn't ''completely'' end until [[Sebastian Thor|Atatürk]] did the [[Noblebright|final house-cleaning]] around the 1930's.

Eurasia, particularly Ukraine, was the hotbed of slavery for the Ottoman Empire, with the port city of Caffa being the continent's major slave ports. The Russians liberated it from the Crimean Khanate, whose major income was thousands of taken women and children from villages, supplying the Ottoman Empire's need for European/white women. Evliya Çelebi even wrote about the despair and cries of women separated from their children and then sold separately.

But the problem was particularly acute in Russia. Tzar Alexander II officially ended serfdom in Russia via two edicts in 1861 and 1866, liberating roughly 33 million people (23 million private serfs and at least 9 million state serfs) from obligations. But this was achieved by simply taxing all of them and paying the tax to their former lords. While this tax was intended to expire, ultimately the hardship this caused, combined with the Great War and other factors, would lead to the Russian Revolution, where the Tzar abdicated and the Bolsheviks rose to power.

In contrast to the above, slavery is virtually never mentioned in [[Oriental Adventures|east Asian-inspired]] settings. This has some basis in history in certain areas: The [[Mongols]]' nomadic lifestyle was not conductive to widespread slavery, though they did take some captives as slaves ([[Genghis motherfucking Khan|Genghis Khan]] himself was briefly a slave in his youth), and during the Mongol Empire's runs on conquering China people were often little better than slaves anyway. The Chinese themselves went through several periods of loosening and then making stricter laws surrounding slavery, usually rallying around who was in charge following their frequent wars to unify, only to break apart once more. The question of working conditions in China and comparisons to slavery along with "prison camps" came up during and after Mao Zedong's rise to power, but rather than poke that hornet's nest suffice to say these stories have more than a grain of truth to them (there's a reason for the stereotype of the Chinese sweatshop worker). The inhabitants of the Ryukyu islands "would die over" slavery rather than participate. Slavery in Asia was probably most prolific on the Korean peninsula, who had a caste system, but population growth, a few slave revolts and modernization eventually rendered it less than palatable.

The earliest European reports of [[Japan]] mention that, though it existed there, slavery was rare and primarily inflicted on debtors and prisoners of war. The main recorded examples are the maids/concubines of the rich, and those brought by Europeans themselves. One European held slave's physical stature impressed Oda Nobunaga so much that he purchased him, freed him and elevated him to samurai status (making him potentially the first and only non-Japanese Samuraï). This man would be known as Yasuke, [[Anime|the only black samurai]]. During the Sengoku a not-insignificant of Japanese prisoners of war were sold to the Europeans for foreign trade until 1587/1595, when Toyotomi Hideyoshi banned it. HOWEVER... the Japanese were one of the last countries to give up serfdom; the feudal land system disappeared along with the Samurai who oversaw it during the Meiji Restoration.

==Slavery in Fantasy==
[[File:Drow slaves Into the Darklands.jpg|thumb|[[Drow]] are notorious slavers.]]
Because slavery is viewed as such a moral repugnance throughout the modern world, it is an easy way for lazy [[GM]]s to get a reaction from players. Slavery being one of the common features of a setting's bad guys makes for an easy way to establish that civilization or organization is [[Alignment|evil]]. A bunch of armed guys attack a peaceful village with chains and whips to catch its residents, bind them, and take them to their dwelling, where they're treated worse than how we treat livestock and forced to: toil, be beaten, probably raped, and made to fight to the death in arenas for the amusement and benefit of some sick bastards? That is more than enough reason to establish "these guys are bad, go [[murderhobo|kill their asses]]" regardless of alignment; even Evil characters can simply indulge their drive to kill by offing slavers, and exploit the freed villagers and their families for more favors - particularly Lawful Evil ones.

However, this is not always the case; both the perceived "good" and "bad" factions can also engage in slavery, although how they do it usually defines who's good and who's bad (regardless of how minute the difference is). Take [[Araby]] and the [[Dark Elves]] in the ''[[Warhammer Fantasy Battles|Warhammer Fantasy]]'' setting, for example. Both factions engage in wanton slavery and have no qualms about it being a common thing everywhere. However, what sort of defines each of them is how they see their slaves. In Araby, slaves have several rights, the children of slaves are guaranteed by law to not be slaves, and particularly cruel mistreatment of slaves will result in punishment to the masters and the mistreated becoming free. The Dark Elves consider all non-Dark Elves to be beneath them and will torture, maim and kill their slaves for various reasons including thinking its fun.

Though it is found in both, slavery is more common in fantasy settings than in science fiction. In your typical Tolkien knockoff, the way you go about digging rocks, harvesting lumber, tilling fields and raising buildings is normally with strong backs. In most sci-fi worlds, why have a bunch of slaves working in an irradiated asteroid space mine when you could have a bunch of robots who don't need slave drivers, don't require food or air, won't plot escape/rebellion ([[Men of Iron|'''hopefully''']]), and are stronger and easier to repair if damaged?

Slavery of a [[/d/|certain kind]] is a common feature of many [[Magical Realm]]s.

===Slavery in [[Warhammer Fantasy Battle]]===

Since we are a bunch of [[Warhammer]] nerds, here are some examples<ref>Besides the pair that allows us to explain that there's a sliding scale of evilness associated with slave-holding societies</ref> from those two/three settings, because we can't restrain ourselves:

[[Tomb Kings|Ancient Nehekharan's]] society mostly had its labor powered by slaves that were either prisoners of war or captured from oversea raid (like their Egypt counterpart). Most slaves would overwork themselves and die under the whips of the architects (or soon to be necrotects) while building a pyramid (Settra's pyramid only took 20 years and cost over 2000 slaves; His successor's pyramid usually took 25 years and cost over one million slaves). This does not mean Nehekharan were mostly cruel tyrants, for a few kind or wise rulers would grant a boon to talented slaves by giving them a place in their hierarchy, allowing some of them to even become a vizier (second most powerful man in a great city besides a priest king). Females would be used as servants instead of labor just because they are good looking.

Then there's [[Nagash]]. HE believed everyone but him are either slaves, fuel for spells or enemies to kill (then made into undead slaves). Even talented generals and his nine noble lieutenants were just considered his most useful slaves, and he only treated them better because he understood positive reinforcement was the best approach with them. Necromancy was his idea of free labor; to build the Black Pyramid, Nagash was merciless even by Nehekharan standards (in hindsight, his dad getting a fuck ton of slaves killed to build his own pyramid, which Nagash would [[Grimdark|wall up his own brother alive in to usurp him]], should have raised a few alarm bells), to the point of telling living slaves to make tools from the bones of their dead co-workers to meet his design. Anyone who died in Nagash's service would be made undead to continue working or punishment, best case scenario they'd get a promotion or power boost if they weren't mindless.

Skaven mainly enslave their own kind - Skavenslaves, the bottom rung of their society. There's always a surplus of Skaven ratlings, so most of those end up as slaves. Their lives are often filthy, painful and short; they're underfed, fight for what little food they have and cannibalism is often required not to starve. They get the most dangerous and thankless jobs, including test subjects for [[Clan Skryre]]'s experiments or raw material for [[Clan Moulder]]'s fleshcrafting. Their most famous role is to act as expendable fodder for Skaven Warlords to pin down or exhaust the enemy with (the same could be said about Clanrats, but they have actual combat training and also get armor - albeit poor quality armor). Skaven do take slaves from other races, though they end up as food, material for fleshcrafting or spell ingredients. Humans whom were enslaved by the Skaven for any length of time often go insane (due to their disbelieve in the said ratmen's mythical existence) and even start to act like a Skaven. Rumors claim that at some point they actually mutate into Skaven, but given Skaven Xenophobia and how they treat skavenslaves the chances of them lasting that long are pretty low. non-skaven slaves, especially the humans would often band together in their cell to prevent anyone of them from devoured by other Skavens, especially if they have infants in their group since Skavens finds [[grimdark|infants to be tasty]].

[[Warrior of Chaos|Chaos Tribes]], like Kurgans and Norscans, employ slaves that are captured in the aftermaths of victorious battles and raids. The former, funnily enough, have a system compared to that of an Ancient Rome, where slaves are constantly fighting to get more privileges and eventually free himself. Norscan slaves are called thralls (even though in real history they weren't exactly slaves) and are mostly used in labour and sacrifice.

All elves have some form of "involuntary servitude". The most notorious slavers are, unsurprisingly, [[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy Battle)|Dark Elves]], who use them in pretty much every type of work and take them from every race (although Dwarf ones are the most valuable). [[High Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)|High Elves]] of Lothern use slaves (mostly humans) in menial tasks and also trade them, but in other kingdoms slavery is forbidden. [[Wood Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)|Wood Elves]], meanwhile, kidnap [[Bretonnia|Bretonnian]] children and turn them into servants that regard Asrai as gods and never grow up.

[[Chaos Dwarfs]] are one of the most iconic slaver civilisations in WFB, they rely on it as much as Druchii. Most are [[Orcs & Goblins]], but there are other races working for them. [[End Times|This ultimately brought their doom at the hands of Grimgor.]]

Fantasy Greenskins, interestingly, do not have a developed slavery system. Yes, Goblins can work for Orcs because they're smaller, but by outgrowing Orcs they can free themselves (like [[Grom the Paunch]], for example). Not to say that there are excusively Goblin tribes...

[[Ogre Kingdoms|Ogres]] mostly employ [[Gnoblar|Gnoblars]] as their slaves, but there are also battle [[Giant|Giants]]. However, most other captured enemies are just sacrificed immediately.

Most of the Order-aligned human nations forbade slavery. The only exception is [[Araby]] (which has an extensive slave system similar to that of Ottoman Empire, Berber Coast and other Arabic nations at the time), also slaves are sometimes traded in [[Sartosa]] and [[Marienburg]]. Bretonnian serfdom can also be somewhat compared to slavery.

=== Slavery in [[Warhammer 40,000]] ===

''[[Warhammer 40,000]]'' actually justifies having slaves fairly well. In a galactic empire like the [[Imperium]], automation is considered techno-[[heresy]] (or simply decayed like spaceship artillery loaders) due to a robot rebellion happening in the past and the risk of Chaos corruption for the machines. Even during the heyday of the Great Crusade, "indentured servants" are found in many canon literary works, mostly for payment for medical treatment, crime (think U.S Penal System), or augmentation. In order to access "free" labour without the fear of Abominable Intelligence, they created [[Servitors]], cyborgs made out of human criminals or vat clones. Then again, every human in the Imperium is indebted to the Emperor at birth and thus [[count as]] his currency to be spent [[Imperial Guard|on wars]] and [[Administratum|labors]]. Basically modern slavery but with more fanaticism, cloning and cybernetics. [[Imperial Worlds#Feudal_Worlds|Feudal Worlds]] and [[Hive World]] exists for this purpose and are basically designed to let the Imperium to shit out billions of humans every single day.

Notably, [[Angron]] was a gladiator, a slave warrior who risk his life to entertain his master, making him the only Primarch to be a slave.

The [[Dark Eldar]] are sick bastards who need to consume souls of psychically susceptible species (human youngsters are prime specimens, while Tau souls taste bland and weak) and get their rocks off at making others miserable.

And the [[Orks]]... well, the Orks simply believe might makes right is an axiom '''(A WOT?!)'''. It's the natural order that the big and tough can and ought push around the small and puny. There's no universal right, only the power you possess and general Orkiness. Ork fluff is dodgy as far as slaves from other species are concerned, but Grots and especially Snotlings fill the role of slaves for manual labour and occasional plaything (not [[/d/|''that'']] kind of plaything). It should be noted that grots and snotlings are part of the broader Orkoid support ecology which was deliberately engineered to support Da Boyz. [[The War of The Beast]] has shown Orks are capable of enslaving other species if they were given a propa brutal cunning (or cunning brutal) evolution to do so.

And let's not forget the [[Enslavers]], as if their name isn't already an obvious giveaway. They are creatures of warp who feeds on living beings soul, then turning them into their incubation bed/cannon-fodder minion afterwards.

=== Chaos in general ===
Since Chaos works the same way in both fantasy and 40k, it is fine to put both setting together when discussing anything about Chaos.

All Chaos worshipers could be count as some kind of slaves to the Chaos Gods. However, since Chaos Gods is the living conscious of everybody's emotion to the extreme, this means Chaos worshipers are in fact enslaved by their own emotions. [[Khorne|Khornate]] followers need to endlessly offer blood and skulls harvest from their enemy and never show cowardice (only to either die by their enemies' hand, or by Khorne's wrath because of taking some of his glory as their own). [[Tzeentch]] followers need to endlessly plot with hopes that their ambitions could succeed (only for their plans to backfire, that or they get turned into...[[Chaos Spawn|whatever that is]]). Nurgle devotees need to continuously bathe in shit and live in misery, or else Nurgle will give them [[Extra Heresy|extra encouragement]] to become a proper follower. Slaanesh's followers need to tirelessly perfect their depraved art and entertainment (only to have their acts caught by their local [[Adeptus Arbites|PDF]], that or Slaanesh might punish them with a hellish "supplementary lesson curse" just because they made one step wrong, or because it is jealous). Only the Undivided Worshippers do not get constantly bent over by their god-masters since they do not channel the power of Chaos in the same way or as often. However, this does not stop the Chaos Gods from punishing them, and since unlike a devotee of one single god, Undivided followers are not likely to gain much favor with an individual god because of their veneration of Chaos as a whole.

There's also a saying that we are all slaves to fate. If that's the case, then Tzeentch is probably the master of all intelligent beings that are capable of having emotions. However, Tzeentch cannot claim the fate of a person if they are; A. claimed by one of his three brother gods; or B. are claimed by other non-chaos gods that could resist him ([[The God-Emperor of Mankind|Big E]], [[Cegorach]], [[Gork]] an' [[Mork]], etc...). Then again, claimed by any god could also count as slavery, but some might not feel the same way. In this situation, the interpretations of slavery is up to how the gods treats their subjects, but for the most parts, the subjects are nothing but pawns to further their gods' plan, that or to entertain them. [[Inquisition|Some are willing, feeling it as a sacred duty to do the god's work]]. Others will resent feeling like a slave, and might [[Horus Heresy|rebel]] against their god, only to be [[Officio Assassinorum|put down]] or [[exterminatus|exterminated right where they stood]].

To the like of [[Wulfrik the Wanderer]], he was cursed to seek out the bounty the god's had marked, or else they will constantly annoying him with headache, and he will be sent to torment for eternity if he dies. He initially hated the curse since it restricted his freedom, prevent him from having a prosper life. However, after facing many encounters with his arch-nemesis, traitors, cheating girlfriend and manipulators throughout his journey to remove his curse, he realized the curse was in fact a bless, and this whole journey was the gods' way to show Wulfrik how much they care for him, in exchange to be enslaved by them, the gods ultimately helped him exact vengeance and gain glory. So yeah, Chaos Gods do have a soft side for their subjects, in a weird dickish way, and being enslaved by them is has its own warped form of glory.

==A Digression About the Economics of Slavery==
For serious worldbuilders who have it, you need to consider what economics already considers a long-standing question: Is slavery profitable in the long term, and if so where?

The consensus answer among economic historians to the first one is that yes, slavery can be profitable, but only in those situations where technology does not offer a faster/cheaper/safer solution. Indeed, most ancient Empires (Egyptian, Greek, Roman) had some form of institutionalized slavery that allowed them to endure. This being said, the very concept of slavery has some serious downsides (that have nothing to do with morality) dooming it in the long run. The short answer to the "where" question is "cash crops and other agriculture, unskilled labor, and a bit of mining", in roughly that order of profitability.

The practical downsides that doom slavery include, but are not limited to:

*First of all, in any area where sabotage is a serious concern slavery is usually a non-starter. For a recent example, look at the [[Nazi]]s using forced labor to build their weapons later in the war, and the quality of said weapons, with Russian POWs and Communist and Social Democrat political prisoners being the most profilic for small-scale sabotage (like leaving out a bolt here and there or not quite soldering something right). Turns out a learned clockmaker isn't the best at toiling the fields. That rules out most semi-modern mining, as well as just about any industry with any degree of mechanization and a surprising amount of agriculture.
** Despite mining being the stereotypical use of slaves in fiction, mining past a certain depth is sufficiently deadly and expensive that semi-skilled labor is '''absolutely required''', and a slave has a nice way to commit suicide AND hurt his master's profits at the same time. While ''other'' exploitative practices may be used, the training required means actual slavery-based mining is very much a no-go save for tasks such as the very basic work of breaking surface mineral seams, as well as open-pit mining, where "getting stuck" is not an issue and carrying loads to processing stations a la South American silver mining done by Spanish or simple stone quarries where all one needs doing is to hit a stone with a pick and carry the resulting ore chunks to the storage.
** The same goes for large-scale infrastructure projects like those undertaken during the Great Terror under Stalin in the Soviet Union. Nearly all of these projects that heavily relied on forced labour fell apart very quickly once they were put to use, often with disastrous consequences. The sinister thing about this is that, because the Soviet system was supposedly infallible, every accident of this kind was attributed to "Sabotage", leading to another round of arrests and purges, endlessly propelling forward a cycle of mass arrests, deportations, accidents and so forth. Krushchev ended the Gulag system mainly because the shoddy work the Gulag produced wasn't sustainable in the long run (and also to distance himself from Stalin) when the USSR was to look eye to eye with the United States.
*Second, unless reproduction is heavily encouraged (and ties down the female slaves to light labor), slave populations have a tendency to drop over time, especially compared to relatively free populations (even ignoring manumission, buying freedom in better societies and escapes), and five seconds of thought on slaves' living conditions should lead to a few obvious conclusions as to why. So if you want to keep up, you need to constantly raid (or trade with raiders) for more slaves. Last time this was done beyond the 16th century, the United States wrecked the entire Barbary coast with artillery and freed slaves. So any "sustainable" raiding *will* attract military threats that will make sure any slave taken will eventually be more expensive than a free worker who is A) already available and willing, B) lives within the empire and C) has many motivations, such as family, welfare and [[Tzeentch|hopes for a good future]]).
*Third, slave-holding societies are usually economically out-competed by non-slave-holding societies once military considerations are either removed or temporarily equalized. There are plenty of reasons for this, but the big ones are the twin spectres of Incentives (which align more closely in non-slave societies) and Efficiency (effort you expend on keeping slaves from escaping or rebelling could usually be more productively used elsewhere, and that's just to ''start'', saying nothing of potentially intelligent slaves wasted in labor they are not optimal for rather than being educated and made into scientists).
*Fourth, distinct from the point above, slavery has a bad habit of leading to a hyperstratified society. Such heavy social stratification leads to a heavy decline in economic flexibility, which is a ''bad'' thing when you're in competition with a more flexible (and thus better able to change) society, particularly if innovation is a factor.
*Fifth, if slaves are owned in large numbers they start to displace the local non-slaves. This is not a simple case of [[Meme|"DEY TOOK AHR JERBS"]], as the Romans can attest: when large numbers of slaves started to displace local farmers who were forced to sell their land for some reason or the other, said ex-farmers were driven to the cities, where there were not a lot of jobs either. This bred poverty, and from poverty rose a class dissatisfied with their lot in life as they starve while the rich grow fat. And from this rose political and civilian unrest, which is never good for any state. In the case of the Romans, this gave birth to a populist dictator, Julius Caesar and his adoptive son Octavian, which created a major precedent for all modern dictatorships and bread-and-circuses states.
*Lastly, having a large slave population essentially constituted a permanent fifth column presence. Every empire that employed slavery was compelled to maintain a large armed presence in its home territory to suppress revolts. This tended to limit the size that a state could grow to territorially, with only a few superpowers managing to consolidate enough territory with reliable regional governors to sustain a permanent campaigning military while retaining enough force at home to prevent rebellion. This was a noticeable problem with Sparta where the ratio of Helots to Spartiates (ethnic Spartan cizens, not to be confused with free-dwelling Perioikoi non-citizens) fluctuate around 7 Helots for every Spartiate. Hence, the Spartans had to initiate ritual war and assassination of those deemed too dangerous under the Krypteia to keep the Helots in line. On the other hand, others argue Sparta’s helot management system was more akin to ritual depreciation to make Helots suffer an inferiority complex instead of blatant terror tactics. Serfdom policed by religious caste systems was more effective at maintaining civil order, with serfs tending to rebel only in the case of famine and excessive taxation.

Slavery in worldbuilding is not confined strictly to historical settings; it is also a valid consideration in near future science fiction. The time and cost of moving individuals to other bodies in the solar system by conventional means, combined with the work to be done and the scarcity of hands will mean that people on such ventures will NOT have the luxury to quit. Space colonization under these circumstances will inevitably require a return to the ancient naval tradition that a captain at sea must be an absolute despot for the good of all aboard; "keeping ''everyone'' alive" and "avoiding ''everyone'' dying" are not synonymous, and many hazards of space make the distinction very important. Activity in space today is achieved as a pseudo-military expedition with carefully selected teams trained to cooperate, but larger scale operations WILL necessitate an organization divide between labor and operations and that will result in social friction (this is already seen at the South Pole station; disputes between operations and scientific staff are a continuous problem, especially during winter when the station is completely isolated for months). In some settings, colonization is achieved by using convicted prisoners as labor to sidestep the moral questions of compulsory work and sacrificing some to save all (though this raises the issue of sabotage being a '''very''' serious concern).

[[Category:History]]

Slavery

2022-12-17T18:04:08Z

2601:41:C77F:9B60:1CE:AE05:ACA2:2D81: /* Slavery in Warhammer 40,000 */

{{sick|Only [[/pol/|sick fucks]] would ever justify enslaving a fellow human being.}}
[[image:Slaves sugar cane.jpg|thumb|300px|right|Slaves harvesting sugar cane, not a lot fun for them. It is really good in tea, though.]]
{{Topquote|I came here in peace, seeking gold and slaves.|Jack Handey, ''What I'd Say to the Martians''}}
{{Topquote|No! We are true men, not slaves! I would sooner choose death than to betray my god and serve the likes of you!|A certain [[Chaos|Forsaken tribesman]], made a <s>foolish</s> bold decision to reject Nagash's slavery, and was devoured alive moments later by Nagash's ghouls. AKA getting exactly what he wants.}}

'''Slavery''' is the institution of owning other humans ([[Hard Science Fiction|as well as other sapient]] [[Soft Science Fiction|beings by extrapolation]]) as property. As slaves are bound to their owners, they were prevented from leaving or refusing to work under threat of immediate violence for disobedience. When two groups would fight, it was not uncommon for the victor to capture some of the defeated along with the goods or territory and put them to work. Later on, as long-distance trade improved, they also began selling said captives to other cultures. The children of slaves usually were slaves themselves, though this was not universal.

In other cases, people would be put into slavery as a punishment, e.g. for failure to pay their debts, or voluntarily such as an alternative to paying for something. Some systems of slavery even offered opportunities for, like the Devshirmeh system in Ottoman Empire, where boys taken from among Christian vassals who were bright enough could actually end up as Grand Vizier of the Empire (with a few caveats; they had to be smart and all of them had to be converted to Islam willingly or not... either way they weren't allowed to stay Christian).

In addition to the practice of owning human beings as chattel, there are other contemporary and historical arrangements so similar to slavery that they are referred to as slavery informally or at that point in history. A few of these include serfdom ([[Peasant|serfs]] were not owned, but they were bound to the land owned by [[noble]]s and are required to work the noble's land 2-3 days per week for free and keep what else they could grow-keep-trade), indentured servitude or peonage in colonial America (in exchange for passage to the new world being paid, criminal fines or to discharge a debt in a form of unpaid or coerced labor called debt bondage, someone would be indentured to a contract holder and have to work off their debt over a number of years such as British criminals and Irish people too poor to pay for the trip), impressment and shanghaiing (where people were kidnapped or tricked into leaving from home ports or ships and forced to serve as sailors with said debt not being hereditary, often with their identification papers or debts held over their heads to keep them in line), unreasonable use of unpaid labor such as some more extreme versions of prisons or POW interment facilities, and the various forced labor programs used by the [[Nazi|Nazis]] and other despotic regimes and the victims of human trafficking which is still ongoing today.

Presently it's generally acknowledged that humans cannot be considered ''real assets'', although there remain locations where this is not an absolute, and only the most extreme activists consider this to be a universal right that should be extended to other organisms. And there are very few countries that have addressed the more tricky issues of conscription, prison labor, and non-dischargeable debt.

Economically slavery is... tricky. At the first glance it looks like free labour, meaning easy way of getting rich without paying your workers. But slavery have lots of hidden expenses, most notably on security and overseeing work, making it not nearly as free as it looks. Furthermore, most slaves are unfit for any sophisticated work, being way worse motivated in the result of their labour than hired workers. That's not to say you can't have slave engineers, teachers or other high-intelligence jobs, but historically it only worked by giving said highly skilled slaves so much freedom and privilege they end up more like contracted workers with no way of getting out of the contracts, and not much (if any) cheaper than free people doing the same job, so the only upside is that they don't run away from you and tell your secrets to your enemies. For this reason in most cultures for the overwhelming length of history slaves were a luxury, not really a means of creating wealth, unless you happen to have highly profitable industry with very low skill requirement, like strip mining in antiquity (deep mining required way more skill), cotton farming in new age or textile sweatshops in modern times. Even then it have another hidden detriment: slaves don't consume as much as free people, so they put a giant handbrake on the economy, hampering the circulation of the capital and generally making everyone, including even slave owners, poorer compared to the same economy running on hired labour instead of slavery. In short, slavery excels at making nobles or their equivalents in society richer than plebs, but not at making them richer than "nobles" of other societies that don't run on slavery. One of the reasons modern slavery only survived in third-world countries is partly because they're shitholes that still use slavery that cannot afford to "cash out" their slaves and transition to a traditional economy.

== History stuff ==
{{skubby}}
The oldest surviving codex of laws yet discovered in the world, the "Code of Ur-Nammu" dating back to at least 2050 BCE, has multiple references to slaves, so slavery has been with humanity for a ''very'' long time. Slavery was practiced in virtually every culture at some point throughout their history; as soon as a people progressed from a hunter-gathering and nomadic culture to an agrarian one it became more convenient to look for ways to increase productivity and lower expenses. Before the advent of modern machinery, often the best way was some flavor of slave workforce since you generally had to spend fewer resources on a slave than you would on your fellow clan member. That said, it was unusual for a society to have more than 10% of it's population as slaves.

Prisoners of war were taken as slaves and made to ply their trade for their conquerors, or were sold abroad for goods. Since civilizations would wax and wane from time to time, the enslavers of one generation might end up enslaved in the next. The Ancient Egyptians made use of slaves in various ways, though even then, there was something of a hierarchy among slaves. That being said, contrary to popular belief, the pyramids weren't built by slaves but by free people (paid in fresh crops grown on the most fertile and irrigated lands in Egypt owned directly by the pharaoh and worked by said pharaoh's personal slaves, as well as good amounts of meat). The Greeks made heavier-than-usual use of slaves, and the Romans even more so. The Persians did not use slavery themselves and tried to limit it, but slavery did exist in their Empire among their conquered vassals. Slaves worked in every field from miners (who were quickly worked to death) to farmers, to factory workers and skilled craftsmen. Other examples range from the [[Grimdark]] examples of sex slaves or fodder for human sacrifice (the latter being something the Aztecs were notorious for), to non dark examples such as entertainers, teachers and doctors (particularly Greeks who could buy their freedom in a year, or even less if skilled) and even up to high ranking government officials in the Empire. Ancient Romans used to grumble about all these slaves coming in stealing people's jobs (this sentence is not a joke).

Slavery existed in [[Medieval Stasis|Medieval Europe]], but declined after the year 1000 CE in a lot of places, especially the north. The Domesday Book (a census carried out by William the Conqueror in 1086) stipulated that about 10% of the population of England was slaves. In fact, the basis for the modern English word slave gets its roots from the fact that the Slavic races were so often put upon that [[Grimdark|the ordeal was named after them]], also providing the first example of race-based slavery. The Vikings practiced slavery, acquiring them primarily on expeditions or raids in Eastern Europe and the British Isles. They could also obtain Viking slaves at home (as crimes like murder and thievery were punished with slavery) or through doing business with the Arab world, which also had a prominent slave trade. The Vikings' treatment of slaves was all over the spectrum. When Arabs, and later the Europeans, discovered the continent of Africa, there was much contact between local tribes and foreigners on this subject. Many nations would take slaves from the peoples of Africa abetted at times by local slavery systems among African people themselves (see below). [[Grimdark|In Brazil and most of the Caribbean between 1600 and 1800, the slave population never was able to achieve natural replacement rates due to a high death rate from overwork and abuse by their masters]]. The American system of slavery (aka "the peculiar institution") would arguably require an entire article of its own, but since we'd rather not try to poke that hornet's nest, suffice to say it was little different from the Caribbean experience and was only abolished by President Abraham Lincoln as a result of the American Civil War (and was one of the reasons Lincoln was assassinated). In Europe, society eventually transition from using slaves to serfs where they were tied to the land (which is owned and under the protection of a landowner) instead of being tied directly to owners under the feudal system. The said system hung on until the Black Death but held out in Eastern Europe right until the eve of World War I.

During this aforementioned time, the idea of racial slavery was raised. In the Classical World (for example, Ancient Rome), slaves were basically from everywhere in the Empire and many places beyond and the children of freed slaves (Libertus) in Rome became more Romans, and Rome being Rome, they even had the manumission (freeing) of slaves as a religious/bureaucratic ritual onto itself. While if Slavic people are considered a race, they were the first case of racial slavery due to being popular choices of slaves. Ideas raised in attempts to justify the idea arose between the Arab Slave Trade and the Atlantic Slave Trade. Slavery is not a nice thing even at the best of times, but racial slavery adds to it the conception that an enslaved race is inherently inferior, doomed to servitude forever, and that people from it are unfit for anything else. Those caught up in it had little hope of ever elevating themselves from a state of being a form of livestock with the hands for manual labor. Slave ships sailed from Europe to Africa loaded with manufactured goods, textiles and weapons which they traded for prisoners of war, criminals and existing slaves. They were packed in like sardines to be shipped to the new world, collecting sugar, rum, coffee and other goods produced by slave labor to sell them in the mother countries.

Africa has had slavery between its various tribes and kingdoms for millennia, even to the present day. Between this and many foreign civilizations making extensive use of African slaves, the history of slavery in Africa is complicated and violent. In Africa, even prior to the Arab slave trade or the Atlantic/European slave trade, slavery happened in all forms from ancient times. This was enacted between many of the various tribes and nations of Africa; however, in many African societies where slavery was prevalent, the enslaved people were not treated as chattel slaves and had certain rights in a system similar to indentured servitude elsewhere in the world. When the Arab slave trade - and centuries later, the Atlantic slave trade - began, many of the local slave systems began supplying captives for slave markets outside Africa. They also supplied local criminals and captives from rival tribes or nations to the Arab, European or American slave trades. This means African slave traders short-sightedly helped fan the flames of the issue of racial slavery, unaware of the dehumanization these buyers would subject them to - and that's before the Scramble for Africa caused many of them to become slaves themselves.

While black Africans were shipped to the Americas as slaves in huge numbers, they weren't the only victims of slavery there. Many Native Americans were enslaved by colonial powers, especially the Spanish and Portuguese. That said, the influence of humanitarian-minded Catholic clergy eventually led to positive reforms in the treatment of these indigenous peoples, though these improvements weren't always enforced properly. Native Americans were also known to practice slavery themselves, either on their own initiative or due to influence from colonialists. One famous example of the former are the Haida of the Pacific Northwest, who frequently engaged in maritime slave raids against other tribes, almost like Native American Vikings. When it comes to the latter, the Five Civilized Tribes adopted the practice of owning black slaves. Some members of these tribes fought for the Confederacy, frequently because they wanted to keep their slaves.

North African corsairs were notorious for their frequent slave raids against merchant ships and coastal settlements. They struck as far north as Iceland and as far south as the Congo. Foreign nations were expected to pay tribute to avoid having their vessels and towns attacked. Such raids began in the 16th century and didn't end until the French conquest of the Algerian coast in the 1830s.

In the Ottoman Empire, whose system can ''arguably'' be seen as similar to the Eastern Roman Empire (better known as the Byzantine Empire) it supplanted, the system was more or less the same, but with a small possibility of moving up if you were a Christian (or claiming to be one) because Christians and Jews are considered "people of the Book", meaning the worthiest of non-Muslim people according to Islam. It had three sources of slaves: The first was Africa, with the usual [[Grimdark]] fate for blacks brought by the thousands, many castrated and dying during transport, females ending up as house slaves and non-castrated males working agriculture in Egypt and Anatolia as ''fellahin'' (though the descendants of said slaves could and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmet_Ali_%C3%87elikten did] have success stories). The second was the slave-port of Caffa, the most underreported and forgotten white slavery port which took ''millions'' of white slaves from Ukraine, males killed and women sold as sex slaves ([[SJW|you don't get to hear much about it because they are not black]]). ''Devshirmeh'' is the name for the system of taking one boy out of 40 houses from the population of Christian vassals in the Ottoman Empire; this mostly meant Balkan Christians, with the inclusion of Bosniak Muslims while Armenians, Romani and Jews were explicitly excluded. The taken boys were converted to Islam one way or another, then made into elite monastic troops called Janissaries (new soldiers) in Anatolia or the Mamluks in Egypt. If they proved intelligent, they were sent to the Imperial Academy in Enderun to become bureaucrats. Being slaves, they had no ''habeas corpus'' and could be executed at any time - in theory. In practice, while the threat hanging over their heads was very real, they could also push back against this by working their way into military ranks, marrying Ottoman princesses, engineering palace coups to kill off sultans who didn't pay them enough, or even investing back in their native countries such as Bosnia (the reason Bosniaks mourned the fall of the Janissary institution while EVERYONE ELSE celebrated it). The dangers of the ''devshirmeh'' system didn't stop some families from actively sending their kids there in desperation, often to the point of bribing the Janissary Aghas. A similar situation exists in Egypt with the Mamluks; who were typically taken as children from the local Christian Copts by their Arab rulers.

Female slaves in the Ottoman Empire didn't get as many opportunities, with the "best" option allowed to them being to end up as palace concubines. But this contained more backstabbing than a Tzeentchian party, and few died peacefully. Ironically, many concubines who ended up marrying Viziers or military officers ended up in better positions than concubines who were gunning for the top spot (The Sultan rewarded success with concubines he didn't use- talk about sloppy seconds. Or VERY rarely, [[Loli|one of his daughters]].). With the advent of nationalism, the French Revolution, Russia conquering Ukraine and destroying the Muslim-Tatar slavery business ([[Alignment#Lawful_Evil|If only to preserve their white serf population]]) and the growing need for military reforms bitterly opposed by the Janissaries, the system's flaws burst like rotting cysts, and Ottoman-style slavery went the way of the Dodo in 1847 thanks to [[Noblebright|Abdulmajid's reforms]]. The harem was numerous enough by then, and the freed whites went on with their lives while the black population [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Turks settled in Western Turkey as free farmers]. Slavery didn't ''completely'' end until [[Sebastian Thor|Atatürk]] did the [[Noblebright|final house-cleaning]] around the 1930's.

Eurasia, particularly Ukraine, was the hotbed of slavery for the Ottoman Empire, with the port city of Caffa being the continent's major slave ports. The Russians liberated it from the Crimean Khanate, whose major income was thousands of taken women and children from villages, supplying the Ottoman Empire's need for European/white women. Evliya Çelebi even wrote about the despair and cries of women separated from their children and then sold separately.

But the problem was particularly acute in Russia. Tzar Alexander II officially ended serfdom in Russia via two edicts in 1861 and 1866, liberating roughly 33 million people (23 million private serfs and at least 9 million state serfs) from obligations. But this was achieved by simply taxing all of them and paying the tax to their former lords. While this tax was intended to expire, ultimately the hardship this caused, combined with the Great War and other factors, would lead to the Russian Revolution, where the Tzar abdicated and the Bolsheviks rose to power.

In contrast to the above, slavery is virtually never mentioned in [[Oriental Adventures|east Asian-inspired]] settings. This has some basis in history in certain areas: The [[Mongols]]' nomadic lifestyle was not conductive to widespread slavery, though they did take some captives as slaves ([[Genghis motherfucking Khan|Genghis Khan]] himself was briefly a slave in his youth), and during the Mongol Empire's runs on conquering China people were often little better than slaves anyway. The Chinese themselves went through several periods of loosening and then making stricter laws surrounding slavery, usually rallying around who was in charge following their frequent wars to unify, only to break apart once more. The question of working conditions in China and comparisons to slavery along with "prison camps" came up during and after Mao Zedong's rise to power, but rather than poke that hornet's nest suffice to say these stories have more than a grain of truth to them (there's a reason for the stereotype of the Chinese sweatshop worker). The inhabitants of the Ryukyu islands "would die over" slavery rather than participate. Slavery in Asia was probably most prolific on the Korean peninsula, who had a caste system, but population growth, a few slave revolts and modernization eventually rendered it less than palatable.

The earliest European reports of [[Japan]] mention that, though it existed there, slavery was rare and primarily inflicted on debtors and prisoners of war. The main recorded examples are the maids/concubines of the rich, and those brought by Europeans themselves. One European held slave's physical stature impressed Oda Nobunaga so much that he purchased him, freed him and elevated him to samurai status (making him potentially the first and only non-Japanese Samuraï). This man would be known as Yasuke, [[Anime|the only black samurai]]. During the Sengoku a not-insignificant of Japanese prisoners of war were sold to the Europeans for foreign trade until 1587/1595, when Toyotomi Hideyoshi banned it. HOWEVER... the Japanese were one of the last countries to give up serfdom; the feudal land system disappeared along with the Samurai who oversaw it during the Meiji Restoration.

==Slavery in Fantasy==
[[File:Drow slaves Into the Darklands.jpg|thumb|[[Drow]] are notorious slavers.]]
Because slavery is viewed as such a moral repugnance throughout the modern world, it is an easy way for lazy [[GM]]s to get a reaction from players. Slavery being one of the common features of a setting's bad guys makes for an easy way to establish that civilization or organization is [[Alignment|evil]]. A bunch of armed guys attack a peaceful village with chains and whips to catch its residents, bind them, and take them to their dwelling, where they're treated worse than how we treat livestock and forced to: toil, be beaten, probably raped, and made to fight to the death in arenas for the amusement and benefit of some sick bastards? That is more than enough reason to establish "these guys are bad, go [[murderhobo|kill their asses]]" regardless of alignment; even Evil characters can simply indulge their drive to kill by offing slavers, and exploit the freed villagers and their families for more favors - particularly Lawful Evil ones.

However, this is not always the case; both the perceived "good" and "bad" factions can also engage in slavery, although how they do it usually defines who's good and who's bad (regardless of how minute the difference is). Take [[Araby]] and the [[Dark Elves]] in the ''[[Warhammer Fantasy Battles|Warhammer Fantasy]]'' setting, for example. Both factions engage in wanton slavery and have no qualms about it being a common thing everywhere. However, what sort of defines each of them is how they see their slaves. In Araby, slaves have several rights, the children of slaves are guaranteed by law to not be slaves, and particularly cruel mistreatment of slaves will result in punishment to the masters and the mistreated becoming free. The Dark Elves consider all non-Dark Elves to be beneath them and will torture, maim and kill their slaves for various reasons including thinking its fun.

Though it is found in both, slavery is more common in fantasy settings than in science fiction. In your typical Tolkien knockoff, the way you go about digging rocks, harvesting lumber, tilling fields and raising buildings is normally with strong backs. In most sci-fi worlds, why have a bunch of slaves working in an irradiated asteroid space mine when you could have a bunch of robots who don't need slave drivers, don't require food or air, won't plot escape/rebellion ([[Men of Iron|'''hopefully''']]), and are stronger and easier to repair if damaged?

Slavery of a [[/d/|certain kind]] is a common feature of many [[Magical Realm]]s.

===Slavery in [[Warhammer Fantasy Battle]]===

Since we are a bunch of [[Warhammer]] nerds, here are some examples<ref>Besides the pair that allows us to explain that there's a sliding scale of evilness associated with slave-holding societies</ref> from those two/three settings, because we can't restrain ourselves:

[[Tomb Kings|Ancient Nehekharan's]] society mostly had its labor powered by slaves that were either prisoners of war or captured from oversea raid (like their Egypt counterpart). Most slaves would overwork themselves and die under the whips of the architects (or soon to be necrotects) while building a pyramid (Settra's pyramid only took 20 years and cost over 2000 slaves; His successor's pyramid usually took 25 years and cost over one million slaves). This does not mean Nehekharan were mostly cruel tyrants, for a few kind or wise rulers would grant a boon to talented slaves by giving them a place in their hierarchy, allowing some of them to even become a vizier (second most powerful man in a great city besides a priest king). Females would be used as servants instead of labor just because they are good looking.

Then there's [[Nagash]]. HE believed everyone but him are either slaves, fuel for spells or enemies to kill (then made into undead slaves). Even talented generals and his nine noble lieutenants were just considered his most useful slaves, and he only treated them better because he understood positive reinforcement was the best approach with them. Necromancy was his idea of free labor; to build the Black Pyramid, Nagash was merciless even by Nehekharan standards (in hindsight, his dad getting a fuck ton of slaves killed to build his own pyramid, which Nagash would [[Grimdark|wall up his own brother alive in to usurp him]], should have raised a few alarm bells), to the point of telling living slaves to make tools from the bones of their dead co-workers to meet his design. Anyone who died in Nagash's service would be made undead to continue working or punishment, best case scenario they'd get a promotion or power boost if they weren't mindless.

Skaven mainly enslave their own kind - Skavenslaves, the bottom rung of their society. There's always a surplus of Skaven ratlings, so most of those end up as slaves. Their lives are often filthy, painful and short; they're underfed, fight for what little food they have and cannibalism is often required not to starve. They get the most dangerous and thankless jobs, including test subjects for [[Clan Skryre]]'s experiments or raw material for [[Clan Moulder]]'s fleshcrafting. Their most famous role is to act as expendable fodder for Skaven Warlords to pin down or exhaust the enemy with (the same could be said about Clanrats, but they have actual combat training and also get armor - albeit poor quality armor). Skaven do take slaves from other races, though they end up as food, material for fleshcrafting or spell ingredients. Humans whom were enslaved by the Skaven for any length of time often go insane (due to their disbelieve in the said ratmen's mythical existence) and even start to act like a Skaven. Rumors claim that at some point they actually mutate into Skaven, but given Skaven Xenophobia and how they treat skavenslaves the chances of them lasting that long are pretty low. non-skaven slaves, especially the humans would often band together in their cell to prevent anyone of them from devoured by other Skavens, especially if they have infants in their group since Skavens finds [[grimdark|infants to be tasty]].

[[Warrior of Chaos|Chaos Tribes]], like Kurgans and Norscans, employ slaves that are captured in the aftermaths of victorious battles and raids. The former, funnily enough, have a system compared to that of an Ancient Rome, where slaves are constantly fighting to get more privileges and eventually free himself. Norscan slaves are called thralls (even though in real history they weren't exactly slaves) and are mostly used in labour and sacrifice.

All elves have some form of "involuntary servitude". The most notorious slavers are, unsurprisingly, [[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy Battle)|Dark Elves]], who use them in pretty much every type of work and take them from every race (although Dwarf ones are the most valuable). [[High Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)|High Elves]] of Lothern use slaves (mostly humans) in menial tasks and also trade them, but in other kingdoms slavery is forbidden. [[Wood Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)|Wood Elves]], meanwhile, kidnap [[Bretonnia|Bretonnian]] children and turn them into servants that regard Asrai as gods and never grow up.

[[Chaos Dwarfs]] are one of the most iconic slaver civilisations in WFB, they rely on it as much as Druchii. Most are [[Orcs & Goblins]], but there are other races working for them. [[End Times|This ultimately brought their doom at the hands of Grimgor.]]

Fantasy Greenskins, interestingly, do not have a developed slavery system. Yes, Goblins can work for Orcs because they're smaller, but by outgrowing Orcs they can free themselves (like [[Grom the Paunch]], for example). Not to say that there are excusively Goblin tribes...

[[Ogre Kingdoms|Ogres]] mostly employ [[Gnoblar|Gnoblars]] as their slaves, but there are also battle [[Giant|Giants]]. However, most other captured enemies are just sacrificed immediately.

Most of the Order-aligned human nations forbade slavery. The only exception is [[Araby]] (which has an extensive slave system similar to that of Ottoman Empire, Berber Coast and other Arabic nations at the time), also slaves are sometimes traded in [[Sartosa]] and [[Marienburg]]. Bretonnian serfdom can also be somewhat compared to slavery.

=== Slavery in [[Warhammer 40,000]] ===

''[[Warhammer 40,000]]'' actually justifies having slaves fairly well. In a galactic empire like the [[Imperium]], automation is considered techno-[[heresy]] (or simply decayed like spaceship artillery loaders) due to [[Cybernetic Revolt|a robot rebellion]] happening in the past and the risk of Chaos corruption for the machines. Even during the heyday of the Great Crusade, "indentured servants" are found in many canon literary works, mostly for payment for medical treatment, crime (think U.S Penal System), or augmentation. In order to access "free" labour without the fear of Abominable Intelligence, they created [[Servitors]], cyborgs made out of human criminals or vat clones. Then again, every human in the Imperium is indebted to the Emperor at birth and thus [[count as]] his currency to be spent [[Imperial Guard|on wars]] and [[Administratum|labors]]. Basically modern slavery but with more fanaticism, cloning and cybernetics. [[Imperial Worlds#Feudal_Worlds|Feudal Worlds]] and [[Hive World]] exists for this purpose and are basically designed to let the Imperium to shit out billions of humans every single day.

Notably, [[Angron]] was a gladiator, a slave warrior who risk his life to entertain his master, making him the only Primarch to be a slave.

The [[Dark Eldar]] are sick bastards who need to consume souls of psychically susceptible species (human youngsters are prime specimens, while Tau souls taste bland and weak) and get their rocks off at making others miserable.

And the [[Orks]]... well, the Orks simply believe might makes right is an axiom '''(A WOT?!)'''. It's the natural order that the big and tough can and ought push around the small and puny. There's no universal right, only the power you possess and general Orkiness. Ork fluff is dodgy as far as slaves from other species are concerned, but Grots and especially Snotlings fill the role of slaves for manual labour and occasional plaything (not [[/d/|''that'']] kind of plaything). It should be noted that grots and snotlings are part of the broader Orkoid support ecology which was deliberately engineered to support Da Boyz. [[The War of The Beast]] has shown Orks are capable of enslaving other species if they were given a propa brutal cunning (or cunning brutal) evolution to do so.

And let's not forget the [[Enslavers]], as if their name isn't already an obvious giveaway. They are creatures of warp who feeds on living beings soul, then turning them into their incubation bed/cannon-fodder minion afterwards.

=== Chaos in general ===
Since Chaos works the same way in both fantasy and 40k, it is fine to put both setting together when discussing anything about Chaos.

All Chaos worshipers could be count as some kind of slaves to the Chaos Gods. However, since Chaos Gods is the living conscious of everybody's emotion to the extreme, this means Chaos worshipers are in fact enslaved by their own emotions. [[Khorne|Khornate]] followers need to endlessly offer blood and skulls harvest from their enemy and never show cowardice (only to either die by their enemies' hand, or by Khorne's wrath because of taking some of his glory as their own). [[Tzeentch]] followers need to endlessly plot with hopes that their ambitions could succeed (only for their plans to backfire, that or they get turned into...[[Chaos Spawn|whatever that is]]). Nurgle devotees need to continuously bathe in shit and live in misery, or else Nurgle will give them [[Extra Heresy|extra encouragement]] to become a proper follower. Slaanesh's followers need to tirelessly perfect their depraved art and entertainment (only to have their acts caught by their local [[Adeptus Arbites|PDF]], that or Slaanesh might punish them with a hellish "supplementary lesson curse" just because they made one step wrong, or because it is jealous). Only the Undivided Worshippers do not get constantly bent over by their god-masters since they do not channel the power of Chaos in the same way or as often. However, this does not stop the Chaos Gods from punishing them, and since unlike a devotee of one single god, Undivided followers are not likely to gain much favor with an individual god because of their veneration of Chaos as a whole.

There's also a saying that we are all slaves to fate. If that's the case, then Tzeentch is probably the master of all intelligent beings that are capable of having emotions. However, Tzeentch cannot claim the fate of a person if they are; A. claimed by one of his three brother gods; or B. are claimed by other non-chaos gods that could resist him ([[The God-Emperor of Mankind|Big E]], [[Cegorach]], [[Gork]] an' [[Mork]], etc...). Then again, claimed by any god could also count as slavery, but some might not feel the same way. In this situation, the interpretations of slavery is up to how the gods treats their subjects, but for the most parts, the subjects are nothing but pawns to further their gods' plan, that or to entertain them. [[Inquisition|Some are willing, feeling it as a sacred duty to do the god's work]]. Others will resent feeling like a slave, and might [[Horus Heresy|rebel]] against their god, only to be [[Officio Assassinorum|put down]] or [[exterminatus|exterminated right where they stood]].

To the like of [[Wulfrik the Wanderer]], he was cursed to seek out the bounty the god's had marked, or else they will constantly annoying him with headache, and he will be sent to torment for eternity if he dies. He initially hated the curse since it restricted his freedom, prevent him from having a prosper life. However, after facing many encounters with his arch-nemesis, traitors, cheating girlfriend and manipulators throughout his journey to remove his curse, he realized the curse was in fact a bless, and this whole journey was the gods' way to show Wulfrik how much they care for him, in exchange to be enslaved by them, the gods ultimately helped him exact vengeance and gain glory. So yeah, Chaos Gods do have a soft side for their subjects, in a weird dickish way, and being enslaved by them is has its own warped form of glory.

==A Digression About the Economics of Slavery==
For serious worldbuilders who have it, you need to consider what economics already considers a long-standing question: Is slavery profitable in the long term, and if so where?

The consensus answer among economic historians to the first one is that yes, slavery can be profitable, but only in those situations where technology does not offer a faster/cheaper/safer solution. Indeed, most ancient Empires (Egyptian, Greek, Roman) had some form of institutionalized slavery that allowed them to endure. This being said, the very concept of slavery has some serious downsides (that have nothing to do with morality) dooming it in the long run. The short answer to the "where" question is "cash crops and other agriculture, unskilled labor, and a bit of mining", in roughly that order of profitability.

The practical downsides that doom slavery include, but are not limited to:

*First of all, in any area where sabotage is a serious concern slavery is usually a non-starter. For a recent example, look at the [[Nazi]]s using forced labor to build their weapons later in the war, and the quality of said weapons, with Russian POWs and Communist and Social Democrat political prisoners being the most profilic for small-scale sabotage (like leaving out a bolt here and there or not quite soldering something right). Turns out a learned clockmaker isn't the best at toiling the fields. That rules out most semi-modern mining, as well as just about any industry with any degree of mechanization and a surprising amount of agriculture.
** Despite mining being the stereotypical use of slaves in fiction, mining past a certain depth is sufficiently deadly and expensive that semi-skilled labor is '''absolutely required''', and a slave has a nice way to commit suicide AND hurt his master's profits at the same time. While ''other'' exploitative practices may be used, the training required means actual slavery-based mining is very much a no-go save for tasks such as the very basic work of breaking surface mineral seams, as well as open-pit mining, where "getting stuck" is not an issue and carrying loads to processing stations a la South American silver mining done by Spanish or simple stone quarries where all one needs doing is to hit a stone with a pick and carry the resulting ore chunks to the storage.
** The same goes for large-scale infrastructure projects like those undertaken during the Great Terror under Stalin in the Soviet Union. Nearly all of these projects that heavily relied on forced labour fell apart very quickly once they were put to use, often with disastrous consequences. The sinister thing about this is that, because the Soviet system was supposedly infallible, every accident of this kind was attributed to "Sabotage", leading to another round of arrests and purges, endlessly propelling forward a cycle of mass arrests, deportations, accidents and so forth. Krushchev ended the Gulag system mainly because the shoddy work the Gulag produced wasn't sustainable in the long run (and also to distance himself from Stalin) when the USSR was to look eye to eye with the United States.
*Second, unless reproduction is heavily encouraged (and ties down the female slaves to light labor), slave populations have a tendency to drop over time, especially compared to relatively free populations (even ignoring manumission, buying freedom in better societies and escapes), and five seconds of thought on slaves' living conditions should lead to a few obvious conclusions as to why. So if you want to keep up, you need to constantly raid (or trade with raiders) for more slaves. Last time this was done beyond the 16th century, the United States wrecked the entire Barbary coast with artillery and freed slaves. So any "sustainable" raiding *will* attract military threats that will make sure any slave taken will eventually be more expensive than a free worker who is A) already available and willing, B) lives within the empire and C) has many motivations, such as family, welfare and [[Tzeentch|hopes for a good future]]).
*Third, slave-holding societies are usually economically out-competed by non-slave-holding societies once military considerations are either removed or temporarily equalized. There are plenty of reasons for this, but the big ones are the twin spectres of Incentives (which align more closely in non-slave societies) and Efficiency (effort you expend on keeping slaves from escaping or rebelling could usually be more productively used elsewhere, and that's just to ''start'', saying nothing of potentially intelligent slaves wasted in labor they are not optimal for rather than being educated and made into scientists).
*Fourth, distinct from the point above, slavery has a bad habit of leading to a hyperstratified society. Such heavy social stratification leads to a heavy decline in economic flexibility, which is a ''bad'' thing when you're in competition with a more flexible (and thus better able to change) society, particularly if innovation is a factor.
*Fifth, if slaves are owned in large numbers they start to displace the local non-slaves. This is not a simple case of [[Meme|"DEY TOOK AHR JERBS"]], as the Romans can attest: when large numbers of slaves started to displace local farmers who were forced to sell their land for some reason or the other, said ex-farmers were driven to the cities, where there were not a lot of jobs either. This bred poverty, and from poverty rose a class dissatisfied with their lot in life as they starve while the rich grow fat. And from this rose political and civilian unrest, which is never good for any state. In the case of the Romans, this gave birth to a populist dictator, Julius Caesar and his adoptive son Octavian, which created a major precedent for all modern dictatorships and bread-and-circuses states.
*Lastly, having a large slave population essentially constituted a permanent fifth column presence. Every empire that employed slavery was compelled to maintain a large armed presence in its home territory to suppress revolts. This tended to limit the size that a state could grow to territorially, with only a few superpowers managing to consolidate enough territory with reliable regional governors to sustain a permanent campaigning military while retaining enough force at home to prevent rebellion. This was a noticeable problem with Sparta where the ratio of Helots to Spartiates (ethnic Spartan cizens, not to be confused with free-dwelling Perioikoi non-citizens) fluctuate around 7 Helots for every Spartiate. Hence, the Spartans had to initiate ritual war and assassination of those deemed too dangerous under the Krypteia to keep the Helots in line. On the other hand, others argue Sparta’s helot management system was more akin to ritual depreciation to make Helots suffer an inferiority complex instead of blatant terror tactics. Serfdom policed by religious caste systems was more effective at maintaining civil order, with serfs tending to rebel only in the case of famine and excessive taxation.

Slavery in worldbuilding is not confined strictly to historical settings; it is also a valid consideration in near future science fiction. The time and cost of moving individuals to other bodies in the solar system by conventional means, combined with the work to be done and the scarcity of hands will mean that people on such ventures will NOT have the luxury to quit. Space colonization under these circumstances will inevitably require a return to the ancient naval tradition that a captain at sea must be an absolute despot for the good of all aboard; "keeping ''everyone'' alive" and "avoiding ''everyone'' dying" are not synonymous, and many hazards of space make the distinction very important. Activity in space today is achieved as a pseudo-military expedition with carefully selected teams trained to cooperate, but larger scale operations WILL necessitate an organization divide between labor and operations and that will result in social friction (this is already seen at the South Pole station; disputes between operations and scientific staff are a continuous problem, especially during winter when the station is completely isolated for months). In some settings, colonization is achieved by using convicted prisoners as labor to sidestep the moral questions of compulsory work and sacrificing some to save all (though this raises the issue of sabotage being a '''very''' serious concern).

[[Category:History]]

Slavery

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Slavery

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{{sick|Only [[/pol/|sick fucks]] would ever justify enslaving a fellow human being.}}
[[image:Slaves sugar cane.jpg|thumb|300px|right|Slaves harvesting sugar cane, not a lot fun for them. It is really good in tea, though.]]
{{Topquote|I came here in peace, seeking gold and slaves.|Jack Handey, ''What I'd Say to the Martians''}}
{{Topquote|No! We are true men, not slaves! I would sooner choose death than to betray my god and serve the likes of you!|A certain [[Chaos|Forsaken tribesman]], made a <s>foolish</s> bold decision to reject Nagash's slavery, and was devoured alive moments later by Nagash's ghouls. AKA getting exactly what he wants.}}

'''Slavery''' is the institution of owning other humans ([[Hard Science Fiction|as well as other sapient]] [[Soft Science Fiction|beings by extrapolation]]) as property. As slaves are bound to their owners, they were prevented from leaving or refusing to work under threat of immediate violence for disobedience. When two groups would fight, it was not uncommon for the victor to capture some of the defeated along with the goods or territory and put them to work. Later on, as long-distance trade improved, they also began selling said captives to other cultures. The children of slaves usually were slaves themselves, though this was not universal.

In other cases, people would be put into slavery as a punishment, e.g. for failure to pay their debts, or voluntarily such as an alternative to paying for something. Some systems of slavery even offered opportunities for, like the Devshirmeh system in Ottoman Empire, where boys taken from among Christian vassals who were bright enough could actually end up as Grand Vizier of the Empire (with a few caveats; they had to be smart and all of them had to be converted to Islam willingly or not... either way they weren't allowed to stay Christian).

In addition to the practice of owning human beings as chattel, there are other contemporary and historical arrangements so similar to slavery that they are referred to as slavery informally or at that point in history. A few of these include serfdom ([[Peasant|serfs]] were not owned, but they were bound to the land owned by [[noble]]s and are required to work the noble's land 2-3 days per week for free and keep what else they could grow-keep-trade), indentured servitude or peonage in colonial America (in exchange for passage to the new world being paid, criminal fines or to discharge a debt in a form of unpaid or coerced labor called debt bondage, someone would be indentured to a contract holder and have to work off their debt over a number of years such as British criminals and Irish people too poor to pay for the trip), impressment and shanghaiing (where people were kidnapped or tricked into leaving from home ports or ships and forced to serve as sailors with said debt not being hereditary, often with their identification papers or debts held over their heads to keep them in line), unreasonable use of unpaid labor such as some more extreme versions of prisons or POW interment facilities, and the various forced labor programs used by the [[Nazi|Nazis]] and other despotic regimes and the victims of human trafficking which is still ongoing today.

Presently it's generally acknowledged that humans cannot be considered ''real assets'', although there remain locations where this is not an absolute, and only the most extreme activists consider this to be a universal right that should be extended to other organisms. And there are very few countries that have addressed the more tricky issues of conscription, prison labor, and non-dischargeable debt.

Economically slavery is... tricky. At the first glance it looks like free labour, meaning easy way of getting rich without paying your workers. But slavery have lots of hidden expenses, most notably on security and overseeing work, making it not nearly as free as it looks. Furthermore, most slaves are unfit for any sophisticated work, being way worse motivated in the result of their labour than hired workers. That's not to say you can't have slave engineers, teachers or other high-intelligence jobs, but historically it only worked by giving said highly skilled slaves so much freedom and privilege they end up more like contracted workers with no way of getting out of the contracts, and not much (if any) cheaper than free people doing the same job, so the only upside is that they don't run away from you and tell your secrets to your enemies. For this reason in most cultures for the overwhelming length of history slaves were a luxury, not really a means of creating wealth, unless you happen to have highly profitable industry with very low skill requirement, like strip mining in antiquity (deep mining required way more skill), cotton farming in new age or textile sweatshops in modern times. Even then it have another hidden detriment: slaves don't consume as much as free people, so they put a giant handbrake on the economy, hampering the circulation of the capital and generally making everyone, including even slave owners, poorer compared to the same economy running on hired labour instead of slavery. In short, slavery excels at making nobles or their equivalents in society richer than plebs, but not at making them richer than "nobles" of other societies that don't run on slavery. One of the reasons modern slavery only survived in third-world countries is partly because they're shitholes that still use slavery that cannot afford to "cash out" their slaves and transition to a traditional economy.

== History stuff ==
{{skubby}}
The oldest surviving codex of laws yet discovered in the world, the "Code of Ur-Nammu" dating back to at least 2050 BCE, has multiple references to slaves, so slavery has been with humanity for a ''very'' long time. Slavery was practiced in virtually every culture at some point throughout their history; as soon as a people progressed from a hunter-gathering and nomadic culture to an agrarian one it became more convenient to look for ways to increase productivity and lower expenses. Before the advent of modern machinery, often the best way was some flavor of slave workforce since you generally had to spend less resources on a slave than you would on your fellow clan member. That said, it was unusual for a society to have more than 10% of it's population as slaves.

Prisoners of war were taken as slaves and made to ply their trade for their conquerors, or were sold abroad for goods. Since civilizations would wax and wane from time to time, the enslavers of one generation might end up enslaved in the next. The Ancient Egyptians made use of slaves in various ways though even there there was something of a hierarchy among slaves, although contrary to popular beliefs pyramids weren't built by slaves but by free people (paid in fresh crops grown on the most fertile and irrigated lands in Egypt owned directly by king and worked by king's personal slaves as well as good amounts of meat). The Greeks made heavier-than-usual use of slaves, and the Romans even more so. The Persians did not use slavery themselves and tried to limit it, but slavery did exist in their Empire among their conquered vassals. Slaves worked in every field from miners (who were quickly worked to death) to farmers, to factory workers and skilled craftsmen. Other examples range from the [[Grimdark]] examples of sex slaves or fodder for human sacrifice (the latter being something the Aztecs were notorious for), to non dark examples such as entertainers, teachers and doctors (particularly Greeks who could buy their freedom in a year, or even less if skilled) and even up to high ranking government officials in the Empire. Ancient Romans used to grumble about all these slaves coming in stealing people's jobs (this sentence is not a joke).

Slavery existed in [[Medieval Stasis|Medieval Europe]], but declined after the year 1000 CE in a lot of places, especially the north. The Domesday Book (a census carried out by William the Conqueror in 1086) stipulated that about 10% of the population of England was slaves. In fact, the basis for the modern English word slave gets its roots from the fact that the Slavic races were so often put upon that [[Grimdark|the ordeal was named after them]], also providing the first example of race-based slavery. The Vikings practiced slavery, acquiring them primarily on expeditions or raids in Eastern Europe and the British Isles. They could also obtain Viking slaves at home, as crimes like murder and thievery were punished with slavery or through doing business with the Arab Slave Trade. The Vikings treatment of slaves was all over the spectrum. When Arabs, and later the Europeans, discovered the continent of Africa, there was much contact between local tribes and foreigners on this subject. Many nations would take slaves from the peoples of Africa abetted at times by local slavery systems among African people themselves (see below). [[Grimdark|In Brazil and most of the Caribbean between 1600 and 1800, the slave population never was able to achieve natural replacement rates due to a high death rate from overwork and abuse by their masters]]. The American system of slavery (aka "the peculiar institution") would arguably require an entire article of its own, but since we'd rather not try to poke that hornet's nest, suffice to say it was little different from the Caribbean experience and was only abolished by President Abraham Lincoln after the American Civil War (and was one of the reasons Lincoln was assassinated). In Europe, society eventually transition from using slaves to serfs where they were tied to the land (which is owned and under the protection of a landowner) instead of being tied directly to owners under the feudal system. The said system hung on until the Black Death but held out in Eastern Europe right until the eve of World War I.

During this aforementioned time, the idea of racial slavery was raised. In the Classical World (for example, Ancient Rome), slaves were basically from everywhere in the Empire and many places beyond and the children of freed slaves (Libertus) in Rome became more Romans, and Rome being Rome, they even had the manumission (freeing) a religious/bureaucratic ritual onto itself. While if Slavic people are considered a race, they were the first case of racial slavery due to being popular choices of slaves. Ideas raised in attempts to justify the idea arose between the Arab Slave Trade and the Atlantic Slave Trade. Slavery is not a nice thing even at the best of times, but racial slavery adds to it the conception that an enslaved race is inferior, doomed to servitude forever, and that people from it are unfit for anything else. Those caught up in it had little hope of ever elevating themselves from a state of being a form of livestock with the hands for manual labor. Slave ships sailed from Europe to Africa loaded with manufactured goods, textiles and weapons which they traded for prisoners of war, criminals and existing slaves. They were packed in like sardines to be shipped to the new world, collecting sugar, rum, coffee and other goods produced by slave labor to sell them in the mother countries.

Africa has had slavery between its various tribes and kingdoms for millennia, even to the present day. Between this and many foreign civilizations making extensive use of African slaves, the history of slavery in Africa is complicated and violent. In Africa, even prior to the Arab slave trade or the Atlantic/European slave trade, slavery happened in all forms from ancient times. This was enacted between many of the various tribes and nations of Africa; however, in many African societies where slavery was prevalent, the enslaved people were not treated as chattel slaves and had certain rights in a system similar to indentured servitude elsewhere in the world. When the Arab slave trade - and centuries later, the Atlantic slave trade - began, many of the local slave systems began supplying captives for slave markets outside Africa. They also supplied local criminals and captives from rival tribes or nations to the Arab, European or American slave trades. This means African slave traders short-sightedly helped fan the flames of the issue of racial slavery, unaware of the dehumanization these buyers would subject them to - and that's before the Scramble for Africa caused many of them to become slaves themselves.

In the Ottoman Empire, whose system can ''arguably'' be seen as similar to the Eastern Roman Empire, the system was more or less the same, but with a small possibility of moving up if you were a Christian (or claiming to be one) because Christians and Jews are considered "people of the Book", meaning the worthiest of non-Muslim people according to Islam. It had three sources of slaves: The first was Africa, with the usual [[Grimdark]] fate for blacks brought by the thousands, many castrated and dying during transport, females ending up as house slaves and non-castrated males working agriculture in Egypt and Anatolia as ''fellahin'' (though the descendants of said slaves could and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmet_Ali_%C3%87elikten did] have success stories). The second was the slave-port of Caffa, the most underreported and forgotten white slavery port which took ''millions'' of white slaves from Ukraine, males killed and women sold as sex slaves ([[SJW|you don't get to hear much about it because they are not black]]. ''Devshirmeh'' is the name for the system of taking one boy out of 40 houses from the population of Christian vassals in the Ottoman Empire; this mostly meant Balkan Christians, with the inclusion of Bosniak Muslims while Armenians, Romani and Jews were explicitly excluded. The taken boys were converted to Islam one way or another, then made into elite monastic troops called Janissaries (new soldiers) in Anatolia or the Mamluks in Egypt. If they proved intelligent, they were sent to the Imperial Academy in Enderun to become bureaucrats. Being slaves, they had no ''habeas corpus'' and could be executed at any time - in theory. In practice, while the threat hanging over their heads was very real, they could also push back against this by working their way into military ranks, marrying Ottoman princesses, engineering palace coups to kill off sultans who didn't pay them enough, or even investing back in their native countries such as Bosnia (the reason Bosniaks mourned the fall of the Janissary institution while EVERYONE ELSE celebrated it). The dangers of the ''devshirmeh'' system didn't stop some families from actively sending their kids there in desperation, often to the point of bribing the Janissary Aghas. A similar situation exists in Egypt with the Mamluks; who were typically taken as children from the local Christian Copts by their Arab rulers.

Female slaves in the Ottoman Empire didn't get as many opportunities, with the "best" option allowed to them being to end up as palace concubines. But this contained more backstabbing than a Tzeentchian party, and few died peacefully. Ironically, many concubines who ended up marrying Viziers or military officers ended up in better positions than concubines who were gunning for the top spot (The Sultan rewarded success with concubines he didn't use- talk about sloppy seconds. Or VERY rarely, [[Loli|one of his daughters]].). With the advent of nationalism, the French Revolution, Russia conquering Ukraine and destroying the Muslim-Tatar slavery business ([[Alignment#Lawful_Evil|If only to preserve their white serf population]]) and the growing need for military reforms bitterly opposed by the Janissaries, the system's flaws burst like rotting cysts, and Ottoman-style slavery went the way of the Dodo in 1847 thanks to [[Noblebright|Abdulmajid's reforms]]. The harem was numerous enough by then, and the freed whites went on with their lives while the black population [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Turks settled in Western Turkey as free farmers]. Slavery didn't ''completely'' end until [[Sebastian Thor|Atatürk]] did the [[Noblebright|final house-cleaning]] around the 1930's.

Eurasia, particularly Ukraine, was the hotbed of slavery for the Ottoman Empire, with the port city of Caffa being the continent's major slave ports. The Russians liberated it from the Crimean Khanate, whose major income was thousands of taken women and children from villages, supplying the Ottoman Empire's need for European/white women. Evliya Çelebi even wrote about the despair and cries of women separated from their children and then sold separately.

But the problem was particularly acute in Russia. Tzar Alexander II officially ended serfdom in Russia via two edicts in 1861 and 1866, liberating roughly 33 million people (23 million private serfs and at least 9 million state serfs) from obligations. But this was achieved by simply taxing all of them and paying the tax to their former lords. While this tax was intended to expire, ultimately the hardship this caused, combined with the Great War and other factors, would lead to the Russian Revolution, where the Tzar abdicated and the Bolsheviks rose to power.

In contrast to the above, slavery is virtually never mentioned in [[Oriental Adventures|east Asian-inspired]] settings. This has some basis in history in certain areas: The [[Mongols]]' nomadic lifestyle was not conductive to widespread slavery, though they did take some captives as slaves ([[Genghis motherfucking Khan|Genghis Khan]] himself was briefly a slave in his youth), and during the Mongol Empire's runs on conquering China people were often little better than slaves anyway. The Chinese themselves went through several periods of loosening and then making stricter laws surrounding slavery, usually rallying around who was in charge following their frequent wars to unify, only to break apart once more. The question of working conditions in China and comparisons to slavery along with "prison camps" came up during and after Mao Zedong's rise to power, but rather than poke that hornet's nest suffice to say these stories have more than a grain of truth to them (there's a reason for the stereotype of the Chinese sweatshop worker). The inhabitants of the Ryukyu islands "would die over" slavery rather than participate. Slavery in Asia was probably most prolific on the Korean peninsula, who had a caste system, but population growth, a few slave revolts and modernization eventually rendered it less than palatable.

The earliest European reports of [[Japan]] mention that, though it existed there, slavery was rare and primarily inflicted on debtors and prisoners of war. The main recorded examples are the maids/concubines of the rich, and those brought by Europeans themselves. One European held slave's physical stature impressed Oda Nobunaga so much that he purchased him, freed him and elevated him to samurai status (making him potentially the first and only non japanese Samuraï). This man would be known as Yasuke, [[Anime|the only black samurai]]. During the Sengoku a not-insignificant of Japanese prisoners of war were sold to the Europeans for foreign trade until 1587/1595, when Toyotomi Hideyoshi banned it. HOWEVER... the Japanese were one of the last countries to give up serfdom; the feudal land system disappeared along with the Samurai who oversaw it during the Meiji Restoration.

==Slavery in Fantasy==
[[File:Drow slaves Into the Darklands.jpg|thumb|[[Drow]] are notorious slavers.]]
Because slavery is viewed as such a moral repugnance throughout the modern world, it is an easy way for lazy [[GM]]s to get a reaction from players. Slavery being one of the common features of a setting's bad guys makes for an easy way to establish that civilization or organization is [[Alignment|evil]]. A bunch of armed guys attack a peaceful village with chains and whips to catch its residents, bind them, and take them to their dwelling, where they're treated worse than how we treat livestock and forced to: toil, be beaten, probably raped, and made to fight to the death in arenas for the amusement and benefit of some sick bastards? That is more than enough reason to establish "these guys are bad, go [[murderhobo|kill their asses]]" regardless of alignment; even Evil characters can simply indulge their drive to kill by offing slavers, and exploit the freed villagers and their families for more favors - particularly Lawful Evil ones.

However, this is not always the case; both the perceived "good" and "bad" factions can also engage in slavery, although how they do it usually defines who's good and who's bad (regardless of how minute the difference is). Take [[Araby]] and the [[Dark Elves]] in the ''[[Warhammer Fantasy Battles|Warhammer Fantasy]]'' setting, for example. Both factions engage in wanton slavery and have no qualms about it being a common thing everywhere. However, what sort of defines each of them is how they see their slaves. In Araby, slaves have several rights, the children of slaves are guaranteed by law to not be slaves, and particularly cruel mistreatment of slaves will result in punishment to the masters and the mistreated becoming free. The Dark Elves consider all non-Dark Elves to be beneath them and will torture, maim and kill their slaves for various reasons including thinking its fun.

Though it is found in both, slavery is more common in fantasy settings than in science fiction. In your typical Tolkien knockoff, the way you go about digging rocks, harvesting lumber, tilling fields and raising buildings is normally with strong backs. In most sci-fi worlds, why have a bunch of slaves working in an irradiated asteroid space mine when you could have a bunch of robots who don't need slave drivers, don't require food or air, won't plot escape/rebellion ([[Men of Iron|'''hopefully''']]), and are stronger and easier to repair if damaged?

Slavery of a [[/d/|certain kind]] is a common feature of many [[Magical Realm]]s.

===Slavery in [[Warhammer Fantasy Battle]]===

Since we are a bunch of [[Warhammer]] nerds, here are some examples<ref>Besides the pair that allows us to explain that there's a sliding scale of evilness associated with slave-holding societies</ref> from those two/three settings, because we can't restrain ourselves:

[[Tomb Kings|Ancient Nehekharan's]] society mostly had its labor powered by slaves that were either prisoners of war or captured from oversea raid (like their Egypt counterpart). Most slaves would overwork themselves and die under the whips of the architects (or soon to be necrotects) while building a pyramid (Settra's pyramid only took 20 years and cost over 2000 slaves; His successor's pyramid usually took 25 years and cost over one million slaves). This does not mean Nehekharan were mostly cruel tyrants, for a few kind or wise rulers would grant a boon to talented slaves by giving them a place in their hierarchy, allowing some of them to even become a vizier (second most powerful man in a great city besides a priest king). Females would be used as servants instead of labor just because they are good looking.

Then there's [[Nagash]]. HE believed everyone but him are either slaves, fuel for spells or enemies to kill (then made into undead slaves). Even talented generals and his nine noble lieutenants were just considered his most useful slaves, and he only treated them better because he understood positive reinforcement was the best approach with them. Necromancy was his idea of free labor; to build the Black Pyramid, Nagash was merciless even by Nehekharan standards (in hindsight, his dad getting a fuck ton of slaves killed to build his own pyramid, which Nagash would [[Grimdark|wall up his own brother alive in to usurp him]], should have raised a few alarm bells), to the point of telling living slaves to make tools from the bones of their dead co-workers to meet his design. Anyone who died in Nagash's service would be made undead to continue working or punishment, best case scenario they'd get a promotion or power boost if they weren't mindless.

Skaven mainly enslave their own kind - Skavenslaves, the bottom rung of their society. There's always a surplus of Skaven ratlings, so most of those end up as slaves. Their lives are often filthy, painful and short; they're underfed, fight for what little food they have and cannibalism is often required not to starve. They get the most dangerous and thankless jobs, including test subjects for [[Clan Skryre]]'s experiments or raw material for [[Clan Moulder]]'s fleshcrafting. Their most famous role is to act as expendable fodder for Skaven Warlords to pin down or exhaust the enemy with (the same could be said about Clanrats, but they have actual combat training and also get armor - albeit poor quality armor). Skaven do take slaves from other races, though they end up as food, material for fleshcrafting or spell ingredients. Humans whom were enslaved by the Skaven for any length of time often go insane (due to their disbelieve in the said ratmen's mythical existence) and even start to act like a Skaven. Rumors claim that at some point they actually mutate into Skaven, but given Skaven Xenophobia and how they treat skavenslaves the chances of them lasting that long are pretty low. non-skaven slaves, especially the humans would often band together in their cell to prevent anyone of them from devoured by other Skavens, especially if they have infants in their group since Skavens finds [[grimdark|infants to be tasty]].

[[Warrior of Chaos|Chaos Tribes]], like Kurgans and Norscans, employ slaves that are captured in the aftermaths of victorious battles and raids. The former, funnily enough, have a system compared to that of an Ancient Rome, where slaves are constantly fighting to get more privileges and eventually free himself. Norscan slaves are called thralls (even though in real history they weren't exactly slaves) and are mostly used in labour and sacrifice.

All elves have some form of "involuntary servitude". The most notorious slavers are, unsurprisingly, [[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy Battle)|Dark Elves]], who use them in pretty much every type of work and take them from every race (although Dwarf ones are the most valuable). [[High Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)|High Elves]] of Lothern use slaves (mostly humans) in menial tasks and also trade them, but in other kingdoms slavery is forbidden. [[Wood Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)|Wood Elves]], meanwhile, kidnap [[Bretonnia|Bretonnian]] children and turn them into servants that regard Asrai as gods and never grow up.

[[Chaos Dwarfs]] are one of the most iconic slaver civilisations in WFB, they rely on it as much as Druchii. Most are [[Orcs & Goblins]], but there are other races working for them. [[End Times|This ultimately brought their doom at the hands of Grimgor.]]

Fantasy Greenskins, interestingly, do not have a developed slavery system. Yes, Goblins can work for Orcs because they're smaller, but by outgrowing Orcs they can free themselves (like [[Grom the Paunch]], for example). Not to say that there are excusively Goblin tribes...

[[Ogre Kingdoms|Ogres]] mostly employ [[Gnoblar|Gnoblars]] as their slaves, but there are also battle [[Giant|Giants]]. However, most other captured enemies are just sacrificed immediately.

Most of the Order-aligned human nations forbade slavery. The only exception is [[Araby]] (which has an extensive slave system similar to that of Ottoman Empire, Berber Coast and other Arabic nations at the time), also slaves are sometimes traded in [[Sartosa]] and [[Marienburg]]. Bretonnian serfdom can also be somewhat compared to slavery.

=== Slavery in [[Warhammer 40,000]] ===

''[[Warhammer 40,000]]'' actually justifies having slaves fairly well. In a galactic empire like the [[Imperium]], automation is considered techno-[[heresy]] (or simply decayed like spaceship artillery loaders) due to a robot rebellion happening in the past and the risk of Chaos corruption for the machines. Even during the heyday of the Great Crusade, "indentured servants" are found in many canon literary works, mostly for payment for medical treatment, crime (think U.S Penal System), or augmentation. In order to access "free" labour without the fear of Abominable Intelligence, they created [[Servitors]], cyborgs made out of human criminals or vat clones. Then again, every human in the Imperium is indebted to the Emperor at birth and thus [[count as]] his currency to be spent [[Imperial Guard|on wars]] and [[Administratum|labors]]. Basically modern slavery but with more fanaticism, cloning and cybernetics. [[Imperial Worlds#Feudal_Worlds|Feudal Worlds]] and [[Hive World]] exists for this purpose and are basically designed to let the Imperium to shit out billions of humans every single day.

Notably, [[Angron]] was a gladiator, a slave warrior who risk his life to entertain his master, making him the only Primarch to be a slave.

The [[Dark Eldar]] are sick bastards who need to consume souls of psychically susceptible species (human youngsters are prime specimens, while Tau souls taste bland and weak) and get their rocks off at making others miserable.

And the [[Orks]]... well, the Orks simply believe might makes right is an axiom '''(A WOT?!)'''. It's the natural order that the big and tough can and ought push around the small and puny. There's no universal right, only the power you possess and general Orkiness. Ork fluff is dodgy as far as slaves from other species are concerned, but Grots and especially Snotlings fill the role of slaves for manual labour and occasional plaything (not [[/d/|''that'']] kind of plaything). It should be noted that grots and snotlings are part of the broader Orkoid support ecology which was deliberately engineered to support Da Boyz. [[The War of The Beast]] has shown Orks are capable of enslaving other species if they were given a propa brutal cunning (or cunning brutal) evolution to do so.

And let's not forget the [[Enslavers]], as if their name isn't already an obvious giveaway. They are creatures of warp who feeds on living beings soul, then turning them into their incubation bed/cannon-fodder minion afterwards.

=== Chaos in general ===
Since Chaos works the same way in both fantasy and 40k, it is fine to put both setting together when discussing anything about Chaos.

All Chaos worshipers could be count as some kind of slaves to the Chaos Gods. However, since Chaos Gods is the living conscious of everybody's emotion to the extreme, this means Chaos worshipers are in fact enslaved by their own emotions. [[Khorne|Khornate]] followers need to endlessly offer blood and skulls harvest from their enemy and never show cowardice (only to either die by their enemies' hand, or by Khorne's wrath because of taking some of his glory as their own). [[Tzeentch]] followers need to endlessly plot with hopes that their ambitions could succeed (only for their plans to backfire, that or they get turned into...[[Chaos Spawn|whatever that is]]). Nurgle devotees need to continuously bathe in shit and live in misery, or else Nurgle will give them [[Extra Heresy|extra encouragement]] to become a proper follower. Slaanesh's followers need to tirelessly perfect their depraved art and entertainment (only to have their acts caught by their local [[Adeptus Arbites|PDF]], that or Slaanesh might punish them with a hellish "supplementary lesson curse" just because they made one step wrong, or because it is jealous). Only the Undivided Worshippers do not get constantly bent over by their god-masters since they do not channel the power of Chaos in the same way or as often. However, this does not stop the Chaos Gods from punishing them, and since unlike a devotee of one single god, Undivided followers are not likely to gain much favor with an individual god because of their veneration of Chaos as a whole.

There's also a saying that we are all slaves to fate. If that's the case, then Tzeentch is probably the master of all intelligent beings that are capable of having emotions. However, Tzeentch cannot claim the fate of a person if they are; A. claimed by one of his three brother gods; or B. are claimed by other non-chaos gods that could resist him ([[The God-Emperor of Mankind|Big E]], [[Cegorach]], [[Gork]] an' [[Mork]], etc...). Then again, claimed by any god could also count as slavery, but some might not feel the same way. In this situation, the interpretations of slavery is up to how the gods treats their subjects, but for the most parts, the subjects are nothing but pawns to further their gods' plan, that or to entertain them. [[Inquisition|Some are willing, feeling it as a sacred duty to do the god's work]]. Others will resent feeling like a slave, and might [[Horus Heresy|rebel]] against their god, only to be [[Officio Assassinorum|put down]] or [[exterminatus|exterminated right where they stood]].

To the like of [[Wulfrik the Wanderer]], he was cursed to seek out the bounty the god's had marked, or else they will constantly annoying him with headache, and he will be sent to torment for eternity if he dies. He initially hated the curse since it restricted his freedom, prevent him from having a prosper life. However, after facing many encounters with his arch-nemesis, traitors, cheating girlfriend and manipulators throughout his journey to remove his curse, he realized the curse was in fact a bless, and this whole journey was the gods' way to show Wulfrik how much they care for him, in exchange to be enslaved by them, the gods ultimately helped him exact vengeance and gain glory. So yeah, Chaos Gods do have a soft side for their subjects, in a weird dickish way, and being enslaved by them is has its own warped form of glory.

==A Digression About the Economics of Slavery==
For serious worldbuilders who have it, you need to consider what economics already considers a long-standing question: Is slavery profitable in the long term, and if so where?

The consensus answer among economic historians to the first one is that yes, slavery can be profitable, but only in those situations where technology does not offer a faster/cheaper/safer solution. Indeed, most ancient Empires (Egyptian, Greek, Roman) had some form of institutionalized slavery that allowed them to endure. This being said, the very concept of slavery has some serious downsides (that have nothing to do with morality) dooming it in the long run. The short answer to the "where" question is "cash crops and other agriculture, unskilled labor, and a bit of mining", in roughly that order of profitability.

The practical downsides that doom slavery include, but are not limited to:

*First of all, in any area where sabotage is a serious concern slavery is usually a non-starter. For a recent example, look at the [[Nazi]]s using forced labor to build their weapons later in the war, and the quality of said weapons, with Russian POWs and Communist and Social Democrat political prisoners being the most profilic for small-scale sabotage (like leaving out a bolt here and there or not quite soldering something right). Turns out a learned clockmaker isn't the best at toiling the fields. That rules out most semi-modern mining, as well as just about any industry with any degree of mechanization and a surprising amount of agriculture.
** Despite mining being the stereotypical use of slaves in fiction, mining past a certain depth is sufficiently deadly and expensive that semi-skilled labor is '''absolutely required''', and a slave has a nice way to commit suicide AND hurt his master's profits at the same time. While ''other'' exploitative practices may be used, the training required means actual slavery-based mining is very much a no-go save for tasks such as the very basic work of breaking surface mineral seams, as well as open-pit mining, where "getting stuck" is not an issue and carrying loads to processing stations a la South American silver mining done by Spanish or simple stone quarries where all one needs doing is to hit a stone with a pick and carry the resulting ore chunks to the storage.
** The same goes for large-scale infrastructure projects like those undertaken during the Great Terror under Stalin in the Soviet Union. Nearly all of these projects that heavily relied on forced labour fell apart very quickly once they were put to use, often with disastrous consequences. The sinister thing about this is that, because the Soviet system was supposedly infallible, every accident of this kind was attributed to "Sabotage", leading to another round of arrests and purges, endlessly propelling forward a cycle of mass arrests, deportations, accidents and so forth. Krushchev ended the Gulag system mainly because the shoddy work the Gulag produced wasn't sustainable in the long run (and also to distance himself from Stalin) when the USSR was to look eye to eye with the United States.
*Second, unless reproduction is heavily encouraged (and ties down the female slaves to light labor), slave populations have a tendency to drop over time, especially compared to relatively free populations (even ignoring manumission, buying freedom in better societies and escapes), and five seconds of thought on slaves' living conditions should lead to a few obvious conclusions as to why. So if you want to keep up, you need to constantly raid (or trade with raiders) for more slaves. Last time this was done beyond the 16th century, the United States wrecked the entire Barbary coast with artillery and freed slaves. So any "sustainable" raiding *will* attract military threats that will make sure any slave taken will eventually be more expensive than a free worker who is A) already available and willing, B) lives within the empire and C) has many motivations, such as family, welfare and [[Tzeentch|hopes for a good future]]).
*Third, slave-holding societies are usually economically out-competed by non-slave-holding societies once military considerations are either removed or temporarily equalized. There are plenty of reasons for this, but the big ones are the twin spectres of Incentives (which align more closely in non-slave societies) and Efficiency (effort you expend on keeping slaves from escaping or rebelling could usually be more productively used elsewhere, and that's just to ''start'', saying nothing of potentially intelligent slaves wasted in labor they are not optimal for rather than being educated and made into scientists).
*Fourth, distinct from the point above, slavery has a bad habit of leading to a hyperstratified society. Such heavy social stratification leads to a heavy decline in economic flexibility, which is a ''bad'' thing when you're in competition with a more flexible (and thus better able to change) society, particularly if innovation is a factor.
*Fifth, if slaves are owned in large numbers they start to displace the local non-slaves. This is not a simple case of [[Meme|"DEY TOOK AHR JERBS"]], as the Romans can attest: when large numbers of slaves started to displace local farmers who were forced to sell their land for some reason or the other, said ex-farmers were driven to the cities, where there were not a lot of jobs either. This bred poverty, and from poverty rose a class dissatisfied with their lot in life as they starve while the rich grow fat. And from this rose political and civilian unrest, which is never good for any state. In the case of the Romans, this gave birth to a populist dictator, Julius Caesar and his adoptive son Octavian, which created a major precedent for all modern dictatorships and bread-and-circuses states.
*Lastly, having a large slave population essentially constituted a permanent fifth column presence. Every empire that employed slavery was compelled to maintain a large armed presence in its home territory to suppress revolts. This tended to limit the size that a state could grow to territorially, with only a few superpowers managing to consolidate enough territory with reliable regional governors to sustain a permanent campaigning military while retaining enough force at home to prevent rebellion. This was a noticeable problem with Sparta where the ratio of Helots to Spartiates (ethnic Spartan cizens, not to be confused with free-dwelling Perioikoi non-citizens) fluctuate around 7 Helots for every Spartiate. Hence, the Spartans had to initiate ritual war and assassination of those deemed too dangerous under the Krypteia to keep the Helots in line. On the other hand, others argue Sparta’s helot management system was more akin to ritual depreciation to make Helots suffer an inferiority complex instead of blatant terror tactics. Serfdom policed by religious caste systems was more effective at maintaining civil order, with serfs tending to rebel only in the case of famine and excessive taxation.

Slavery in worldbuilding is not confined strictly to historical settings; it is also a valid consideration in near future science fiction. The time and cost of moving individuals to other bodies in the solar system by conventional means, combined with the work to be done and the scarcity of hands will mean that people on such ventures will NOT have the luxury to quit. Space colonization under these circumstances will inevitably require a return to the ancient naval tradition that a captain at sea must be an absolute despot for the good of all aboard; "keeping ''everyone'' alive" and "avoiding ''everyone'' dying" are not synonymous, and many hazards of space make the distinction very important. Activity in space today is achieved as a pseudo-military expedition with carefully selected teams trained to cooperate, but larger scale operations WILL necessitate an organization divide between labor and operations and that will result in social friction (this is already seen at the South Pole station; disputes between operations and scientific staff are a continuous problem, especially during winter when the station is completely isolated for months). In some settings, colonization is achieved by using convicted prisoners as labor to sidestep the moral questions of compulsory work and sacrificing some to save all (though this raises the issue of sabotage being a '''very''' serious concern).

[[Category:History]]

Slavery

2022-12-17T17:07:55Z

2601:41:C77F:9B60:1CE:AE05:ACA2:2D81: /* A Digression About the Economics of Slavery */

{{sick|Only [[/pol/|sick fucks]] would ever justify enslaving a fellow human being.}}
[[image:Slaves sugar cane.jpg|thumb|300px|right|Slaves harvesting sugar cane, not a lot fun for them. It is really good in tea, though.]]
{{Topquote|I came here in peace, seeking gold and slaves.|Jack Handey, ''What I'd Say to the Martians''}}
{{Topquote|No! We are true men, not slaves! I would sooner choose death than to betray my god and serve the likes of you!|A certain [[Chaos|Forsaken tribesman]], made a <s>foolish</s> bold decision to reject Nagash's slavery, and was devoured alive moments later by Nagash's ghouls. AKA getting exactly what he wants.}}

'''Slavery''' is the institution of owning other humans ([[Hard Science Fiction|as well as other sapient]] [[Soft Science Fiction|beings by extrapolation]]) as property. As slaves are bound to their owners, they were prevented from leaving or refusing to work under threat of immediate violence for disobedience. When two groups would fight, it was not uncommon for the victor to capture some of the defeated along with the goods or territory and put them to work. Later on, as long-distance trade improved, they also began selling said captives to other cultures. The children of slaves usually were slaves themselves, though this was not universal.

In other cases, people would be put into slavery as a punishment, e.g. for failure to pay their debts, or voluntarily such as an alternative to paying for something. Some systems of slavery even offered opportunities for, like the Devshirmeh system in Ottoman Empire, where boys taken from among Christian vassals who were bright enough could actually end up as Grand Vizier of the Empire (with a few caveats; they had to be smart and all of them had to be converted to Islam willingly or not... either way they weren't allowed to stay Christian).

In addition to the practice of owning human beings as chattel, there are other contemporary and historical arrangements so similar to slavery that they are referred to as slavery informally or at that point in history. A few of these include serfdom ([[Peasant|serfs]] were not owned, but they were bound to the land owned by [[noble]]s and are required to work the noble's land 2-3 days per week for free and keep what else they could grow-keep-trade), indentured servitude or peonage in colonial America (in exchange for passage to the new world being paid, criminal fines or to discharge a debt in a form of unpaid or coerced labor called debt bondage, someone would be indentured to a contract holder and have to work off their debt over a number of years such as British criminals and Irish people too poor to pay for the trip), impressment and shanghaiing (where people were kidnapped or tricked into leaving from home ports or ships and forced to serve as sailors with said debt not being hereditary, often with their identification papers or debts held over their heads to keep them in line), unreasonable use of unpaid labor such as some more extreme versions of prisons or POW interment facilities, and the various forced labor programs used by the [[Nazi|Nazis]] and other despotic regimes and the victims of human trafficking which is still ongoing today.

Presently it's generally acknowledged that humans cannot be considered ''real assets'', although there remain locations where this is not an absolute, and only the most extreme activists consider this to be a universal right that should be extended to other organisms. And there are very few countries that have addressed the more tricky issues of conscription, prison labor, and non-dischargeable debt.

Economically slavery is... tricky. At the first glance it looks like free labour, meaning easy way of getting rich without paying your workers. But slavery have lots of hidden expenses, most notably on security and overseeing work, making it not nearly as free as it looks. Furthermore, most slaves are unfit for any sophisticated work, being way worse motivated in the result of their labour than hired workers. That's not to say you can't have slave engineers, teachers or other high-intelligence jobs, but historically it only worked by giving said highly skilled slaves so much freedom and privilege they end up more like contracted workers with no way of getting out of the contracts, and not much (if any) cheaper than free people doing the same job, so the only upside is that they don't run away from you and tell your secrets to your enemies. For this reason in most cultures for the overwhelming length of history slaves were a luxury, not really a means of creating wealth, unless you happen to have highly profitable industry with very low skill requirement, like strip mining in antiquity (deep mining required way more skill), cotton farming in new age or textile sweatshops in modern times. Even then it have another hidden detriment: slaves don't consume as much as free people, so they put a giant handbrake on the economy, hampering the circulation of the capital and generally making everyone, including even slave owners, poorer compared to the same economy running on hired labour instead of slavery. In short, slavery excels at making nobles or their equivalents in society richer than plebs, but not at making them richer than "nobles" of other societies that don't run on slavery. One of the reasons modern slavery only survived in third-world countries is partly because they're shitholes that still use slavery that cannot afford to "cash out" their slaves and transition to a traditional economy.

== History stuff ==
{{skubby}}
The oldest surviving codex of laws yet discovered in the world, the "Code of Ur-Nammu" dating back to at least 2050 BCE, has multiple references to slaves, so slavery has been with humanity for a ''very'' long time. Slavery was practiced in virtually every culture at some point throughout their history; as soon as a people progressed from a hunter-gathering and nomadic culture to an agrarian one it became more convenient to look for ways to increase productivity and lower expenses. Before the advent of modern machinery, often the best way was some flavor of slave workforce since you generally had to spend less resources on a slave than you would on your fellow clan member. That said, it was unusual for a society to have more than 10% of it's population as slaves.

Prisoners of war were taken as slaves and made to ply their trade for their conquerors, or were sold abroad for goods. Since civilizations would wax and wane from time to time, the enslavers of one generation might end up enslaved in the next. The Ancient Egyptians made use of slaves in various ways though even there there was something of a hierarchy among slaves, although contrary to popular beliefs pyramids weren't built by slaves but by free people (paid in fresh crops grown on the most fertile and irrigated lands in Egypt owned directly by king and worked by king's personal slaves as well as good amounts of meat). The Greeks made heavier-than-usual use of slaves, and the Romans even more so. The Persians did not use slavery themselves and tried to limit it, but slavery did exist in their Empire among their conquered vassals. Slaves worked in every field from miners (who were quickly worked to death) to farmers, to factory workers and skilled craftsmen. Other examples range from the [[Grimdark]] examples of sex slaves or fodder for human sacrifice (the latter being something the Aztecs were notorious for), to non dark examples such as entertainers, teachers and doctors (particularly Greeks who could buy their freedom in a year, or even less if skilled) and even up to high ranking government officials in the Empire. Ancient Romans used to grumble about all these slaves coming in stealing people's jobs (this sentence is not a joke).

Slavery existed in [[Medieval Stasis|Medieval Europe]], but declined after the year 1000 CE in a lot of places, especially the north. The Domesday Book (a census carried out by William the Conqueror in 1086) stipulated that about 10% of the population of England was slaves. In fact, the basis for the modern English word slave gets its roots from the fact that the Slavic races were so often put upon that [[Grimdark|the ordeal was named after them]], also providing the first example of race-based slavery. The Vikings practiced slavery, acquiring them primarily on expeditions or raids in Eastern Europe and the British Isles. They could also obtain Viking slaves at home, as crimes like murder and thievery were punished with slavery or through doing business with the Arab Slave Trade. The Vikings treatment of slaves was all over the spectrum. When Arabs, and later the Europeans, discovered the continent of Africa, there was much contact between local tribes and foreigners on this subject. Many nations would take slaves from the peoples of Africa abetted at times by local slavery systems among African people themselves (see below). [[Grimdark|In Brazil and most of the Caribbean between 1600 and 1800, the slave population never was able to achieve natural replacement rates due to a high death rate from overwork and abuse by their masters]]. The American system of slavery (aka "the peculiar institution") would arguably require an entire article of its own, but since we'd rather not try to poke that hornet's nest, suffice to say it was little different from the Caribbean experience and was only abolished by President Abraham Lincoln after the American Civil War (and was one of the reasons Lincoln was assassinated). In Europe, society eventually transition from using slaves to serfs where they were tied to the land (which is owned and under the protection of a landowner) instead of being tied directly to owners under the feudal system. The said system hung on until the Black Death but held out in Eastern Europe right until the eve of World War I.

During this aforementioned time, the idea of racial slavery was raised. In the Classical World (for example, Ancient Rome), slaves were basically from everywhere in the Empire and many places beyond and the children of freed slaves (Libertus) in Rome became more Romans, and Rome being Rome, they even had the manumission (freeing) a religious/bureaucratic ritual onto itself. While if Slavic people are considered a race, they were the first case of racial slavery due to being popular choices of slaves. Ideas raised in attempts to justify the idea arose between the Arab Slave Trade and the Atlantic Slave Trade. Slavery is not a nice thing even at the best of times, but racial slavery adds to it the conception that an enslaved race is inferior, doomed to servitude forever, and that people from it are unfit for anything else. Those caught up in it had little hope of ever elevating themselves from a state of being a form of livestock with the hands for manual labor. Slave ships sailed from Europe to Africa loaded with manufactured goods, textiles and weapons which they traded for prisoners of war, criminals and existing slaves. They were packed in like sardines to be shipped to the new world, collecting sugar, rum, coffee and other goods produced by slave labor to sell them in the mother countries.

Africa has had slavery between its various tribes and kingdoms for millennia, even to the present day. Between this and many foreign civilizations making extensive use of African slaves, the history of slavery in Africa is complicated and violent. In Africa, even prior to the Arab slave trade or the Atlantic/European slave trade, slavery happened in all forms from ancient times. This was enacted between many of the various tribes and nations of Africa; however, in many African societies where slavery was prevalent, the enslaved people were not treated as chattel slaves and had certain rights in a system similar to indentured servitude elsewhere in the world. When the Arab slave trade - and centuries later, the Atlantic slave trade - began, many of the local slave systems began supplying captives for slave markets outside Africa. They also supplied local criminals and captives from rival tribes or nations to the Arab, European or American slave trades. This means African slave traders short-sightedly helped fan the flames of the issue of racial slavery, unaware of the dehumanization these buyers would subject them to - and that's before the Scramble for Africa caused many of them to become slaves themselves.

In the Ottoman Empire, whose system can ''arguably'' be seen as similar to the Eastern Roman Empire, the system was more or less the same, but with a small possibility of moving up if you were a Christian (or claiming to be one) because Christians and Jews are considered "people of the Book", meaning the worthiest of non-Muslim people according to Islam. It had three sources of slaves: The first was Africa, with the usual [[Grimdark]] fate for blacks brought by the thousands, many castrated and dying during transport, females ending up as house slaves and non-castrated males working agriculture in Egypt and Anatolia as ''fellahin'' (though the descendants of said slaves could and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmet_Ali_%C3%87elikten did] have success stories). The second was the slave-port of Caffa, the most underreported and forgotten white slavery port which took ''millions'' of white slaves from Ukraine, males killed and women sold as sex slaves ([[SJW|you don't get to hear much about it because they are not black]]. ''Devshirmeh'' is the name for the system of taking one boy out of 40 houses from the population of Christian vassals in the Ottoman Empire; this mostly meant Balkan Christians, with the inclusion of Bosniak Muslims while Armenians, Romani and Jews were explicitly excluded. The taken boys were converted to Islam one way or another, then made into elite monastic troops called Janissaries (new soldiers) in Anatolia or the Mamluks in Egypt. If they proved intelligent, they were sent to the Imperial Academy in Enderun to become bureaucrats. Being slaves, they had no ''habeas corpus'' and could be executed at any time - in theory. In practice, while the threat hanging over their heads was very real, they could also push back against this by working their way into military ranks, marrying Ottoman princesses, engineering palace coups to kill off sultans who didn't pay them enough, or even investing back in their native countries such as Bosnia (the reason Bosniaks mourned the fall of the Janissary institution while EVERYONE ELSE celebrated it). The dangers of the ''devshirmeh'' system didn't stop some families from actively sending their kids there in desperation, often to the point of bribing the Janissary Aghas. A similar situation exists in Egypt with the Mamluks; who were typically taken as children from the local Christian Copts by their Arab rulers.

Female slaves in the Ottoman Empire didn't get as many opportunities, with the "best" option allowed to them being to end up as palace concubines. But this contained more backstabbing than a Tzeentchian party, and few died peacefully. Ironically, many concubines who ended up marrying Viziers or military officers ended up in better positions than concubines who were gunning for the top spot (The Sultan rewarded success with concubines he didn't use- talk about sloppy seconds. Or VERY rarely, [[Loli|one of his daughters]].). With the advent of nationalism, the French Revolution, Russia conquering Ukraine and destroying the Muslim-Tatar slavery business ([[Alignment#Lawful_Evil|If only to preserve their white serf population]]) and the growing need for military reforms bitterly opposed by the Janissaries, the system's flaws burst like rotting cysts, and Ottoman-style slavery went the way of the Dodo in 1847 thanks to [[Noblebright|Abdulmajid's reforms]]. The harem was numerous enough by then, and the freed whites went on with their lives while the black population [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Turks settled in Western Turkey as free farmers]. Slavery didn't ''completely'' end until [[Sebastian Thor|Atatürk]] did the [[Noblebright|final house-cleaning]] around the 1930's.

Eurasia, particularly Ukraine, was the hotbed of slavery for the Ottoman Empire, with the port city of Caffa being the continent's major slave ports. The Russians liberated it from the Crimean Khanate, whose major income was thousands of taken women and children from villages, supplying the Ottoman Empire's need for European/white women. Evliya Çelebi even wrote about the despair and cries of women separated from their children and then sold separately.

But the problem was particularly acute in Russia. Tzar Alexander II officially ended serfdom in Russia via two edicts in 1861 and 1866, liberating roughly 33 million people (23 million private serfs and at least 9 million state serfs) from obligations. But this was achieved by simply taxing all of them and paying the tax to their former lords. While this tax was intended to expire, ultimately the hardship this caused combined the Great War and other factors would lead to the abdication of the Tzar and the Russian Revolution.

In contrast to the above, slavery is virtually never mentioned in [[Oriental Adventures|east Asian-inspired]] settings. This has some basis in history in certain areas: The [[Mongols]]' nomadic lifestyle was not conductive to widespread slavery, though they did take some captives as slaves ([[Genghis motherfucking Khan|Genghis Khan]] himself was briefly a slave in his youth), and during the Mongol Empire's runs on conquering China people were often little better than slaves anyway. The Chinese themselves went through several periods of loosening and then making stricter laws surrounding slavery, usually rallying around who was in charge following their frequent wars to unify, only to break apart once more. The question of working conditions in China and comparisons to slavery along with "prison camps" came up during and after Mao Zedong's rise to power, but rather than poke that hornet's nest suffice to say these stories have more than a grain of truth to them (there's a reason for the stereotype of the Chinese sweatshop worker). The inhabitants of the Ryukyu islands "would die over" slavery rather than participate. Slavery in Asia was probably most prolific on the Korean peninsula, who had a caste system, but population growth, a few slave revolts and modernization eventually rendered it less than palatable.

The earliest European reports of [[Japan]] mention that, though it existed there, slavery was rare and primarily inflicted on debtors and prisoners of war. The main recorded examples are the maids/concubines of the rich, and those brought by Europeans themselves. One European held slave's physical stature impressed Oda Nobunaga so much that he purchased him, freed him and elevated him to samurai status (making him potentially the first and only non japanese Samuraï). This man would be known as Yasuke, [[Anime|the only black samurai]]. During the Sengoku a not-insignificant of Japanese prisoners of war were sold to the Europeans for foreign trade until 1587/1595, when Toyotomi Hideyoshi banned it. HOWEVER... the Japanese were one of the last countries to give up serfdom; the feudal land system disappeared along with the Samurai who oversaw it during the Meiji Restoration.

==Slavery in Fantasy==
[[File:Drow slaves Into the Darklands.jpg|thumb|[[Drow]] are notorious slavers.]]
Because slavery is viewed as such a moral repugnance throughout the modern world, it is an easy way for lazy [[GM]]s to get a reaction from players. Slavery being one of the common features of a setting's bad guys makes for an easy way to establish that civilization or organization is [[Alignment|evil]]. A bunch of armed guys attack a peaceful village with chains and whips to catch its residents, bind them, and take them to their dwelling, where they're treated worse than how we treat livestock and forced to: toil, be beaten, probably raped, and made to fight to the death in arenas for the amusement and benefit of some sick bastards? That is more than enough reason to establish "these guys are bad, go [[murderhobo|kill their asses]]" regardless of alignment; even Evil characters can simply indulge their drive to kill by offing slavers, and exploit the freed villagers and their families for more favors - particularly Lawful Evil ones.

However, this is not always the case; both the perceived "good" and "bad" factions can also engage in slavery, although how they do it usually defines who's good and who's bad (regardless of how minute the difference is). Take [[Araby]] and the [[Dark Elves]] in the ''[[Warhammer Fantasy Battles|Warhammer Fantasy]]'' setting, for example. Both factions engage in wanton slavery and have no qualms about it being a common thing everywhere. However, what sort of defines each of them is how they see their slaves. In Araby, slaves have several rights, the children of slaves are guaranteed by law to not be slaves, and particularly cruel mistreatment of slaves will result in punishment to the masters and the mistreated becoming free. The Dark Elves consider all non-Dark Elves to be beneath them and will torture, maim and kill their slaves for various reasons including thinking its fun.

Though it is found in both, slavery is more common in fantasy settings than in science fiction. In your typical Tolkien knockoff, the way you go about digging rocks, harvesting lumber, tilling fields and raising buildings is normally with strong backs. In most sci-fi worlds, why have a bunch of slaves working in an irradiated asteroid space mine when you could have a bunch of robots who don't need slave drivers, don't require food or air, won't plot escape/rebellion ([[Men of Iron|'''hopefully''']]), and are stronger and easier to repair if damaged?

Slavery of a [[/d/|certain kind]] is a common feature of many [[Magical Realm]]s.

===Slavery in [[Warhammer Fantasy Battle]]===

Since we are a bunch of [[Warhammer]] nerds, here are some examples<ref>Besides the pair that allows us to explain that there's a sliding scale of evilness associated with slave-holding societies</ref> from those two/three settings, because we can't restrain ourselves:

[[Tomb Kings|Ancient Nehekharan's]] society mostly had its labor powered by slaves that were either prisoners of war or captured from oversea raid (like their Egypt counterpart). Most slaves would overwork themselves and die under the whips of the architects (or soon to be necrotects) while building a pyramid (Settra's pyramid only took 20 years and cost over 2000 slaves; His successor's pyramid usually took 25 years and cost over one million slaves). This does not mean Nehekharan were mostly cruel tyrants, for a few kind or wise rulers would grant a boon to talented slaves by giving them a place in their hierarchy, allowing some of them to even become a vizier (second most powerful man in a great city besides a priest king). Females would be used as servants instead of labor just because they are good looking.

Then there's [[Nagash]]. HE believed everyone but him are either slaves, fuel for spells or enemies to kill (then made into undead slaves). Even talented generals and his nine noble lieutenants were just considered his most useful slaves, and he only treated them better because he understood positive reinforcement was the best approach with them. Necromancy was his idea of free labor; to build the Black Pyramid, Nagash was merciless even by Nehekharan standards (in hindsight, his dad getting a fuck ton of slaves killed to build his own pyramid, which Nagash would [[Grimdark|wall up his own brother alive in to usurp him]], should have raised a few alarm bells), to the point of telling living slaves to make tools from the bones of their dead co-workers to meet his design. Anyone who died in Nagash's service would be made undead to continue working or punishment, best case scenario they'd get a promotion or power boost if they weren't mindless.

Skaven mainly enslave their own kind - Skavenslaves, the bottom rung of their society. There's always a surplus of Skaven ratlings, so most of those end up as slaves. Their lives are often filthy, painful and short; they're underfed, fight for what little food they have and cannibalism is often required not to starve. They get the most dangerous and thankless jobs, including test subjects for [[Clan Skryre]]'s experiments or raw material for [[Clan Moulder]]'s fleshcrafting. Their most famous role is to act as expendable fodder for Skaven Warlords to pin down or exhaust the enemy with (the same could be said about Clanrats, but they have actual combat training and also get armor - albeit poor quality armor). Skaven do take slaves from other races, though they end up as food, material for fleshcrafting or spell ingredients. Humans whom were enslaved by the Skaven for any length of time often go insane (due to their disbelieve in the said ratmen's mythical existence) and even start to act like a Skaven. Rumors claim that at some point they actually mutate into Skaven, but given Skaven Xenophobia and how they treat skavenslaves the chances of them lasting that long are pretty low. non-skaven slaves, especially the humans would often band together in their cell to prevent anyone of them from devoured by other Skavens, especially if they have infants in their group since Skavens finds [[grimdark|infants to be tasty]].

[[Warrior of Chaos|Chaos Tribes]], like Kurgans and Norscans, employ slaves that are captured in the aftermaths of victorious battles and raids. The former, funnily enough, have a system compared to that of an Ancient Rome, where slaves are constantly fighting to get more privileges and eventually free himself. Norscan slaves are called thralls (even though in real history they weren't exactly slaves) and are mostly used in labour and sacrifice.

All elves have some form of "involuntary servitude". The most notorious slavers are, unsurprisingly, [[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy Battle)|Dark Elves]], who use them in pretty much every type of work and take them from every race (although Dwarf ones are the most valuable). [[High Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)|High Elves]] of Lothern use slaves (mostly humans) in menial tasks and also trade them, but in other kingdoms slavery is forbidden. [[Wood Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)|Wood Elves]], meanwhile, kidnap [[Bretonnia|Bretonnian]] children and turn them into servants that regard Asrai as gods and never grow up.

[[Chaos Dwarfs]] are one of the most iconic slaver civilisations in WFB, they rely on it as much as Druchii. Most are [[Orcs & Goblins]], but there are other races working for them. [[End Times|This ultimately brought their doom at the hands of Grimgor.]]

Fantasy Greenskins, interestingly, do not have a developed slavery system. Yes, Goblins can work for Orcs because they're smaller, but by outgrowing Orcs they can free themselves (like [[Grom the Paunch]], for example). Not to say that there are excusively Goblin tribes...

[[Ogre Kingdoms|Ogres]] mostly employ [[Gnoblar|Gnoblars]] as their slaves, but there are also battle [[Giant|Giants]]. However, most other captured enemies are just sacrificed immediately.

Most of the Order-aligned human nations forbade slavery. The only exception is [[Araby]] (which has an extensive slave system similar to that of Ottoman Empire, Berber Coast and other Arabic nations at the time), also slaves are sometimes traded in [[Sartosa]] and [[Marienburg]]. Bretonnian serfdom can also be somewhat compared to slavery.

=== Slavery in [[Warhammer 40,000]] ===

''[[Warhammer 40,000]]'' actually justifies having slaves fairly well. In a galactic empire like the [[Imperium]], automation is considered techno-[[heresy]] (or simply decayed like spaceship artillery loaders) due to a robot rebellion happening in the past and the risk of Chaos corruption for the machines. Even during the heyday of the Great Crusade, "indentured servants" are found in many canon literary works, mostly for payment for medical treatment, crime (think U.S Penal System), or augmentation. In order to access "free" labour without the fear of Abominable Intelligence, they created [[Servitors]], cyborgs made out of human criminals or vat clones. Then again, every human in the Imperium is indebted to the Emperor at birth and thus [[count as]] his currency to be spent [[Imperial Guard|on wars]] and [[Administratum|labors]]. Basically modern slavery but with more fanaticism, cloning and cybernetics. [[Imperial Worlds#Feudal_Worlds|Feudal Worlds]] and [[Hive World]] exists for this purpose and are basically designed to let the Imperium to shit out billions of humans every single day.

Notably, [[Angron]] was a gladiator, a slave warrior who risk his life to entertain his master, making him the only Primarch to be a slave.

The [[Dark Eldar]] are sick bastards who need to consume souls of psychically susceptible species (human youngsters are prime specimens, while Tau souls taste bland and weak) and get their rocks off at making others miserable.

And the [[Orks]]... well, the Orks simply believe might makes right is an axiom '''(A WOT?!)'''. It's the natural order that the big and tough can and ought push around the small and puny. There's no universal right, only the power you possess and general Orkiness. Ork fluff is dodgy as far as slaves from other species are concerned, but Grots and especially Snotlings fill the role of slaves for manual labour and occasional plaything (not [[/d/|''that'']] kind of plaything). It should be noted that grots and snotlings are part of the broader Orkoid support ecology which was deliberately engineered to support Da Boyz. [[The War of The Beast]] has shown Orks are capable of enslaving other species if they were given a propa brutal cunning (or cunning brutal) evolution to do so.

And let's not forget the [[Enslavers]], as if their name isn't already an obvious giveaway. They are creatures of warp who feeds on living beings soul, then turning them into their incubation bed/cannon-fodder minion afterwards.

=== Chaos in general ===
Since Chaos works the same way in both fantasy and 40k, it is fine to put both setting together when discussing anything about Chaos.

All Chaos worshipers could be count as some kind of slaves to the Chaos Gods. However, since Chaos Gods is the living conscious of everybody's emotion to the extreme, this means Chaos worshipers are in fact enslaved by their own emotions. [[Khorne|Khornate]] followers need to endlessly offer blood and skulls harvest from their enemy and never show cowardice (only to either die by their enemies' hand, or by Khorne's wrath because of taking some of his glory as their own). [[Tzeentch]] followers need to endlessly plot with hopes that their ambitions could succeed (only for their plans to backfire, that or they get turned into...[[Chaos Spawn|whatever that is]]). Nurgle devotees need to continuously bathe in shit and live in misery, or else Nurgle will give them [[Extra Heresy|extra encouragement]] to become a proper follower. Slaanesh's followers need to tirelessly perfect their depraved art and entertainment (only to have their acts caught by their local [[Adeptus Arbites|PDF]], that or Slaanesh might punish them with a hellish "supplementary lesson curse" just because they made one step wrong, or because it is jealous). Only the Undivided Worshippers do not get constantly bent over by their god-masters since they do not channel the power of Chaos in the same way or as often. However, this does not stop the Chaos Gods from punishing them, and since unlike a devotee of one single god, Undivided followers are not likely to gain much favor with an individual god because of their veneration of Chaos as a whole.

There's also a saying that we are all slaves to fate. If that's the case, then Tzeentch is probably the master of all intelligent beings that are capable of having emotions. However, Tzeentch cannot claim the fate of a person if they are; A. claimed by one of his three brother gods; or B. are claimed by other non-chaos gods that could resist him ([[The God-Emperor of Mankind|Big E]], [[Cegorach]], [[Gork]] an' [[Mork]], etc...). Then again, claimed by any god could also count as slavery, but some might not feel the same way. In this situation, the interpretations of slavery is up to how the gods treats their subjects, but for the most parts, the subjects are nothing but pawns to further their gods' plan, that or to entertain them. [[Inquisition|Some are willing, feeling it as a sacred duty to do the god's work]]. Others will resent feeling like a slave, and might [[Horus Heresy|rebel]] against their god, only to be [[Officio Assassinorum|put down]] or [[exterminatus|exterminated right where they stood]].

To the like of [[Wulfrik the Wanderer]], he was cursed to seek out the bounty the god's had marked, or else they will constantly annoying him with headache, and he will be sent to torment for eternity if he dies. He initially hated the curse since it restricted his freedom, prevent him from having a prosper life. However, after facing many encounters with his arch-nemesis, traitors, cheating girlfriend and manipulators throughout his journey to remove his curse, he realized the curse was in fact a bless, and this whole journey was the gods' way to show Wulfrik how much they care for him, in exchange to be enslaved by them, the gods ultimately helped him exact vengeance and gain glory. So yeah, Chaos Gods do have a soft side for their subjects, in a weird dickish way, and being enslaved by them is has its own warped form of glory.

==A Digression About the Economics of Slavery==
For serious worldbuilders who have it, you need to consider what economics already considers a long-standing question: Is slavery profitable in the long term, and if so where?

The consensus answer among economic historians to the first one is that yes, slavery can be profitable, but only in those situations where technology does not offer a faster/cheaper/safer solution. Indeed, most ancient Empires (Egyptian, Greek, Roman) had some form of institutionalized slavery that allowed them to endure. This being said, the very concept of slavery has some serious downsides (that have nothing to do with morality) dooming it in the long run. The short answer to the "where" question is "cash crops and other agriculture, unskilled labor, and a bit of mining", in roughly that order of profitability.

The practical downsides that doom slavery include, but are not limited to:

*First of all, in any area where sabotage is a serious concern slavery is usually a non-starter. For a recent example, look at the [[Nazi]]s using forced labor to build their weapons later in the war, and the quality of said weapons, with Russian POWs and Communist and Social Democrat political prisoners being the most profilic for small-scale sabotage (like leaving out a bolt here and there or not quite soldering something right). Turns out a learned clockmaker isn't the best at toiling the fields. That rules out most semi-modern mining, as well as just about any industry with any degree of mechanization and a surprising amount of agriculture.
** Despite mining being the stereotypical use of slaves in fiction, mining past a certain depth is sufficiently deadly and expensive that semi-skilled labor is '''absolutely required''', and a slave has a nice way to commit suicide AND hurt his master's profits at the same time. While ''other'' exploitative practices may be used, the training required means actual slavery-based mining is very much a no-go save for tasks such as the very basic work of breaking surface mineral seams, as well as open-pit mining, where "getting stuck" is not an issue and carrying loads to processing stations a la South American silver mining done by Spanish or simple stone quarries where all one needs doing is to hit a stone with a pick and carry the resulting ore chunks to the storage.
** The same goes for large-scale infrastructure projects like those undertaken during the Great Terror under Stalin in the Soviet Union. Nearly all of these projects that heavily relied on forced labour fell apart very quickly once they were put to use, often with disastrous consequences. The sinister thing about this is that, because the Soviet system was supposedly infallible, every accident of this kind was attributed to "Sabotage", leading to another round of arrests and purges, endlessly propelling forward a cycle of mass arrests, deportations, accidents and so forth. Krushchev ended the Gulag system mainly because the shoddy work the Gulag produced wasn't sustainable in the long run (and also to distance himself from Stalin) when the USSR was to look eye to eye with the United States.
*Second, unless reproduction is heavily encouraged (and ties down the female slaves to light labor), slave populations have a tendency to drop over time, especially compared to relatively free populations (even ignoring manumission, buying freedom in better societies and escapes), and five seconds of thought on slaves' living conditions should lead to a few obvious conclusions as to why. So if you want to keep up, you need to constantly raid (or trade with raiders) for more slaves. Last time this was done beyond the 16th century, the United States wrecked the entire Barbary coast with artillery and freed slaves. So any "sustainable" raiding *will* attract military threats that will make sure any slave taken will eventually be more expensive than a free worker who is A) already available and willing, B) lives within the empire and C) has many motivations, such as family, welfare and [[Tzeentch|hopes for a good future]]).
*Third, slave-holding societies are usually economically out-competed by non-slave-holding societies once military considerations are either removed or temporarily equalized. There are plenty of reasons for this, but the big ones are the twin spectres of Incentives (which align more closely in non-slave societies) and Efficiency (effort you expend on keeping slaves from escaping or rebelling could usually be more productively used elsewhere, and that's just to ''start'', saying nothing of potentially intelligent slaves wasted in labor they are not optimal for rather than being educated and made into scientists).
*Fourth, distinct from the point above, slavery has a bad habit of leading to a hyperstratified society. Such heavy social stratification leads to a heavy decline in economic flexibility, which is a ''bad'' thing when you're in competition with a more flexible (and thus better able to change) society, particularly if innovation is a factor.
*Fifth, if slaves are owned in large numbers they start to displace the local non-slaves. This is not a simple case of [[Meme|"DEY TOOK AHR JERBS"]], as the Romans can attest: when large numbers of slaves started to displace local farmers who were forced to sell their land for some reason or the other, said ex-farmers were driven to the cities, where there were not a lot of jobs either. This bred poverty, and from poverty rose a class dissatisfied with their lot in life as they starve while the rich grow fat. And from this rose political and civilian unrest, which is never good for any state. In the case of the Romans, this gave birth to a populist dictator, Julius Caesar and his adoptive son Octavian, which created a major precedent for all modern dictatorships and bread-and-circuses states.
*Lastly, having a large slave population essentially constituted a permanent fifth column presence. Every empire that employed slavery was compelled to maintain a large armed presence in its home territory to suppress revolts. This tended to limit the size that a state could grow to territorially, with only a few superpowers managing to consolidate enough territory with reliable regional governors to sustain a permanent campaigning military while retaining enough force at home to prevent rebellion. This was a noticeable problem with Sparta where the ratio of Helots to Spartiates (ethnic Spartan cizens, not to be confused with free-dwelling Perioikoi non-citizens) fluctuate around 7 Helots for every Spartiate. Hence, the Spartans had to initiate ritual war and assassination of those deemed too dangerous under the Krypteia to keep the Helots in line. On the other hand, others argue Sparta’s helot management system was more akin to ritual depreciation to make Helots suffer an inferiority complex instead of blatant terror tactics. Serfdom policed by religious caste systems was more effective at maintaining civil order, with serfs tending to rebel only in the case of famine and excessive taxation.

Slavery in worldbuilding is not confined strictly to historical settings; it is also a valid consideration in near future science fiction. The time and cost of moving individuals to other bodies in the solar system by conventional means, combined with the work to be done and the scarcity of hands will mean that people on such ventures will NOT have the luxury to quit. Space colonization under these circumstances will inevitably require a return to the ancient naval tradition that a captain at sea must be an absolute despot for the good of all aboard; "keeping ''everyone'' alive" and "avoiding ''everyone'' dying" are not synonymous, and many hazards of space make the distinction very important. Activity in space today is achieved as a pseudo-military expedition with carefully selected teams trained to cooperate, but larger scale operations WILL necessitate an organization divide between labor and operations and that will result in social friction (this is already seen at the South Pole station; disputes between operations and scientific staff are a continuous problem, especially during winter when the station is completely isolated for months). In some settings, colonization is achieved by using convicted prisoners as labor to sidestep the moral questions of compulsory work and sacrificing some to save all (though this raises the issue of sabotage being a '''very''' serious concern).

[[Category:History]]

List of Mary Sues

2022-12-17T16:59:09Z

2601:41:C77F:9B60:1CE:AE05:ACA2:2D81: /* Mary Sues Case Studies */

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There are too many fucking [[Mary Sues]] in our games and fiction. We know it, and we love to complain about it, because it makes us feel a little better to call a spade a shovel. The original purpose of this list is to provide examples so the phenomenon can be studied, identified and - as a result of the latter - avoided.

(Note: please post Mary Sues in alphabetical order, so they don't fight about who's the better Mary-Sue. Also, this is about fictional characters, so while Canon Sues are acceptable, no real-life examples (even if there is such person named <s>Mary Sue AKA the Scientology founder's wife</s> I'm just adding that for fun). For the sake of peace, religious figures [and possibly mythological characters; particularly when they're from original mythologies] are real-life examples. Also, any characters added to the list without justifying reasons will be removed from this page. If you're going to add a race, please use the list below this one.

==Mary Sues Case Studies==
{{Plot Armour}}

* [[Alice]] from the in-name-only ''[[Resident Evil]]'' movies: A character created for the movies who started out as corporate spy, she has ever-growing superpowers and is <s>presented as</s> ENTIRELY invincible. She manages to become an even bigger Sue when she loses said superpowers yet continues to obliterate armies unscathed. The film refuses to even let other characters do anything but get rescued by her, she's worse than characters written by [[Matthew Ward]]. Later films even gave her clones to explain why she's still in the films. On top of all this, the bitch is played by the director's wife; she's his perfect Mary Sue waifu insert and she's literally sleeping with him to get the job. Don't forget that [[Katanas are Underpowered in d20|she dual-wields katanas]]. And shotguns. And probably Desert Eagles, too.

* Andrew "Ender" Wiggin from Orson Scott Card's Enderverse, and a blatant (almost comical to a serious reader) example at that. What's worse: he only becomes more of this as the story and the books progress. It's even worse in the 2013 movie. At least the books gave the other characters more depth, Ender's feats took more time to achieve, and it contained POV's outside of his.
** Ender's siblings Valentine and Peter. Ender's sister is a self righteous prig who is only overshadowed by their sociopathic brothers Peter. Peter himself is a mid-to-low functioning sociopath, [[What|but intelligent enough that, as a child, he comes up with sophisticated political philosophies that wow academic circles and get him appointed Political Leader of Earth as an adult. Despite the fact that a sociopath with absolute power would get tyrannical as soon as someone opposed them, he does no violence and dies with a benign, well-loved legacy]]. Yes, this really happens.

* [[Batman]] in an unskilled author's hands. He's a handsome human billionaire who's the pinnacle of human physical prowess and manages to defeat superpowered beings simply because "he had time to prepare" (with few thinking "why don't his opponents also use that time to prepare?"). On top of this he has LITERAL PLOT ARMOR; one of the DC editorial mandates is that Batman is not allowed to be truly defeated (he's usually too popular and has a presence in too much of the DC Universe to be allowed the downtime by editorial, unless it's part of a major storyline such as Knightfall). Because of this a certain tendency for Batman to turn into a Mary Sue is well documented (Read JLA: Act of God and weep; that story was all about starting the First Church of Batman. Or hell, check out the Dark Nights: Metal storyline, where a bunch of Evil Batmen who are variants on an existing superhero attack the DCU as opposed to, say, just doing a whole Evil Justice League like they have multiple times before). This problem becomes particularly acute when he takes down superpowered villains who usually bother other superpowered heroes, such as the Reverse Flash. On the non-Sue side, while Batman does have plot armor (nearly no one thinks to just shoot him when they get the chance and the few times they do he escapes, and he's never unexpectedly engaged by superhuman opponents who could easily beat him - like Darkseid), the same can be said for other non-superpowered heroes. Note, as well, that there are many ways of adding dramatic tension to such a foregone conclusion situation, and the above mandate only includes actual defeat, so Batman is allowed to fail and make mistakes in certain situations or the villain can escape to cause trouble even after their plan is thwarted, which also helps lessen the Bat-Sue Factor.
** Batman is at his worst when written by Frank Miller, who on top of the plot armor issues, writes Batman as a violent psychopath and anybody who calls him out is always presented as being in the wrong. Frequently other superheroes only exist in the story to be written as incompetent so Batman can be made to look better in comparison.

* [[Edgy|Billy Butcher from "The Boys"]] (comics and show, especially the comics) is a prime example of a Jerk Sue (An unsympathetic character nevertheless favored in the story, according to [[TVTropes|our frenemeies]]; "There's a difference between having a sympathetic backstory and actually being sympathetic"). Hating "supers" because one raped his wife and caused her death, Billy is half Punisher-knock-off, half self-insert mouthpiece for Garth Ennis hate boner against superpowers and religion - especially Christianity (it's no coincidence that Billy's a bitter atheist while the antagonist Homelander has a side job as a Christian Pastor and Starlight loses her Christian faith). Billy forms an anti-supers black ops team and works to help the protagonist Hughie get justice for his girlfriend’s death by superhero collateral damage. But Billy's reasons are selfish and he's also an edgelord (mean-spirited? check. violent? check. dark clothes? check. created by edgelord author? check. Revolves around attacking "The Man"? that's a big check!) who nearly turns on Hughie when Hughie starts dating the super defector Starlight, then continues the comics trend of nihilistic subversiveness. He has plot armor to put Batman to shame - even getting away with his dog urinating on a supervillain who's killed people for less - and supposedly has the moral high ground despite doing the same type of crimes as the villains. He then becomes a Villain Sue while trying to genocide supers, because Billy only loses in the end because he chooses to. Even when he loses he gets to die on his own terms by provoking Hughie into killing him so Billy doesn't get arrested and spend the rest of his life in prison while crippled, meaning that despite "losing" Billy effectivily still won. He’s also consistently never allowed to be wrong, as any time a character has something to say about Billy or his actions, he has something to throw back at them proving they’re actually wrong due to author fiat ensuring Billy only argues against strawmen. Finally, this story embodies the author's hatred of superheroes... but Billy himself has superpowers, making the entire premise hypocritical. Goes to show that edgelord Mary Sues are just as repellent as the sugary sweet ones.

* [[Furry|Brian Griffin]] from ''Family Guy'' at his worst. While he was generally depicted as the most sensible member of the Griffin household from practically the very beginning, this was balanced by his flaws (one of the most prominent being his drinking problem) and the fact that the show acknowledged that he could be annoying and/or an asshole. Later on, though, he became a mouthpiece for the showrunner Seth MacFarlane who was treated in-universe as being always right, with the only people who disagreed with him being strawmen who were obvious to the point of being cartoonishly over-the-top. Throw in the facts that Seth MacFarlane voices Brian, he uses his natural speaking voice to do so '''AND''' he often does this on hot-button topics... This was made all the more obnoxious by how flawed or downright ridiculous his logic often was (one of the most notorious examples being the widely-hated episode "Not All Dogs Go To Heaven", where he manages to convince a newly-fundamentalist Christian Meg that God doesn't exist because... she doesn't look as attractive as her mother Lois. Even worse, this was ''after'' the episode "I Dream of Jesus" where the Griffin family - Brian included - had Jesus Himself live with them for a week and do several miracles in front of them). This was somewhat addressed after Season 7, with following seasons often having other characters comment on the inherent absurdity of a talking dog lecturing people about politics (even though them actually challenging the views previously raised was a rare event). Quagmire even got a famous speech where he called out Brian for his self-righteousness and hypocrisy.

* Caius Ballad, the antagonist of ''Final Fantasy XIII-2''. Impractical overdesigned costume? Check. Impractical giant, overdesigned sword? Check. Purple hair? Check. Story-breaking powers? Check. Can't be beaten? Check. Openly called the most powerful ''Final Fantasy'' villain ever by his creator? Check. The only mitigating feature this fool has is that his English VA is Liam O'Brien.

* Darkseid from DC Comics is a rare case where people actually ''like'' someone for being a Sue. He wasn't one at the start of his career - Jack Kirby conceived him as a paper tiger who, for all his grandiose plans and ambitions, was only powerful if people feared him and could be beaten up by two street thugs who didn't know who he was, not anticipating that fans might prefer a villain who was really as intrinsically powerful as Darkseid claimed to be. He's strong and tough enough to go toe-to-toe with Superman, he has laser eyes that can do whatever he wants them to (including killing people instantly or bringing them back to life), he's a masterful schemer who knows all about setting up gambits where he wins no matter what and striking deals with easy ways around them he doesn't mention, most of his minions rival the Justice League in power and on top of all that he's the ruler of an entire planet that reliably goes to shit when he's not around to slap it into shape and sometimes a wide-reaching galactic empire. Despite all this Villain Sue-ness, any attempts to nerf him or bring him down to a more realistic villain level are met with widespread backlash and outrage, and his most celebrated storyline in recent comics history is Final Crisis, in which the heroes required a time-travelling, god-killing bullet to defeat him and he actually forced Batman to abandon his rule against killing. The message is clear: Darkseid is DC's ultimate villain (or close enough to that status that the number of people higher than him can be counted on a hand or two/ doesn't require literal divine intervention etc. to defeat and thus retaining a meaningful conflict) and the fans won't settle for anything less.
** There's a reason for this, by the way: Darkseid and his court neatly fill the archetypal niche of embodiments of "the fucked up things people do when you give them power", with, for example, Gods of Child Abuse and of Torture as two of his chief henchmen. Darkseid himself is the God of Tyranny. If you're going to have a hero who's about Hope and positive, creative or protective Aspirations (see: Superman, Flash, etc.), a villain who embodies the crushing of hope and negative, destructive Aspirations is incredibly useful. Making such a character a paper tiger can be made to work (see the Crimson King, under Special Cases), but is more often than not going to be unsatisfying, usually deeply so.

* Divis Mal from the RPG [[Aberrant]]. Oh, where to begin? Well, first of all on top of being the absolute, balls-out, most powerful Aberrant in the setting, ever, he's super smart, plans for everything, never loses ''no matter what the players do'', and has an ideology that can basically be described as "like Magneto, only ''right''. About ''everything.''" He's also in a loving relationship with a super-attractive partner who is ''also'' super-powerful, and his enemies are all stupid and happen to be straw-stuffed right-wing stereotypes because of course they are. He also serves as a thinly-veiled self-insert fanfic character for the lead game designer (a gay man with issues), and said designer once claimed that the title of the game referred to ''him specifically''. It was all the sequel game could do to take the piss out of all the problems he caused.

* Dr. Doom, depending on the writer. It doesn't help that he's a genius and self-made <s>tycoon</s> monarch with a tragic past, who keeps getting his deaths, defeats, failures and embarassing moments retconned as body doubles (naming the infamous "Actually a Doombot" trope). Worst case scenarios are when he's written by somebody that forgets that he's a VILLAIN and depicts his rule over Latveria as unrealistically benign, and makes it look like the superheroes are wrong for trying to keep him from taking over the world. Writers who like him too much also have him winning fights he doesn't deserve, beating characters who specialize in hand to hand combat despite rarely displaying any such skills himself, overpowering much stronger characters who should be able to defeat him based on how his fights with the Fantastic Four go, and be portrayed as a flawless genius who can plan for everything akin to how some writers handle Batman. Doom has had some famous victories when he's punched above his weight class in the past, which fanboy writers have used as the pretext to let him steal the powers of other beings with no difficulty, even though his past successes doing so weren't by any means easy.

* Elizabeth from ''BioShock Infinite''. Plot-sustaining power (the key to the whole plot literally rests in her hands), cannot be harmed, <s>makes a grown veteran of war look like an idiot child</s> only if you suck at the game... Regardless, she is routinely placed in easily escapable situations for the pure purpose of being saved when she can plausibly save herself, and makes none of the major (or minor) mistakes in the game. While some claim that she greatly dislikes violence, especially killing, individual interpretations vary depending on whether you view her murders as character arc-defining. To make her comparable to Sues like Lightning and Alice: Ken Levine tweeted to complain about all the people who'd [[rule 34|rule 34'd]] his perfect wife, begging them to stop because it was like seeing his daughter in Playboy (or words to that effect). Which resulted in the internet giving Ken Levine exactly [[promotions|what he wanted]]. She even gets to be tied into how Fontaine got Jack's command code in the first BioShock. Way to ruin the franchise with some conventional plot device.

*[[Elminster]], who is currently having a threesome with the goddess of magic and rad boobies and his adopted super-hot albino elf daughter while simultaneously beating the god of murder in a sword fight with one hand and the god of slavery in a magic fight with the other. Also, he's like a million years old and looks it. Ed Greenwood's self-insert character in the [[Forgotten Realms]], and a big source of "Why doesn't he just do this for us?" questions whenever he appears in questlines. Also, along with the gods of the setting and the Harpers, he's one of the reasons why the Forgotten Realms are in [[Medieval Stasis]].
**Ironically he didn't start out originally like this. Back at the beginning of D&D, Elminster wasn't a massive Mary Sue. Believe it or not, he simply used to be a maxed-out wizard with some additional abilities and stuff that appeared as a Deus Ex Machina in case players had an encounter that was too difficult to overcome, much like Gandalf in [[The Hobbit]].

*Emma from The Promised Neverland. Although originally a well fleshed-out character who stands as a clear foil to Ray. After the Goldy Pond Arc, Emma and, let's be honest, the quality of the manga itself started to go downhill. What was once meant to be a trio of protagonists that balanced each other with their strengths and weaknesses, was dumbed down to just Emma pulling shit out of her ass and having a talk-no-jutsu so powerful it can put even Naruto to shame. The amount of asspulls that Emma showed during the TPN in the later arcs was....pronounced enough that it becomes jarring especially when compared to the first two arcs of the manga. Seriously, she can somehow convince every single opponent that challenged her beliefs by simply talking to them and she never ever suffered any repercussions from it. Don't even get us started with enemies knocking themselves out due to ''very'' specific conveniences. Poor Ray was sidelined and reduced to a fucking side character near the end. She is idealistic to the fault and her ideas somehow manages to perpetuate inside the Daemon world just because she's ''that fucking good''. Emma is one of the unique cases where a well-written character got put into Mary Sue territory within the same series no-less. Instead of her character evolving, she devolved. Look, we in /tg/ knows that shonen manga and 'good conclusion' don't often mix, but TPN is one of the most infamous examples that recently came out.

*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TedsiCaV2B4 Empress Theresa] is a good example of the "waifu" theory of Mary Sues and the Doylist definition of Mary Sues, where the author's relationship to the character is the defining factor. Short version: Deranged author who can't take criticism creates his perfect waifu, hands her the world, and refuses to edit the resulting masterpiece, and posts the result for sale on Amazon. Criticism results, which in turn results in internet arguments on a scale that is ''amazing'' (by themselves, they dwarf all of the arguments and criticisms of the Twilight franchise put together, with the unsettling add-on that this is all the author's mindset).

*Every author self-insert. Especially those found in high-school writing assignments.

*Green Lanterns from Earth, especially Hal Jordan. All the human Green Lanterns are regularly shown to be the best Lanterns in the Corps because they ALL have indomitable willpower, skill, and courage, surpassing others who have been in the corps for decades. Most other Lanterns exist only to be killed off as a means of showing how dangerous a threat is. They're only ever effective when they are helping the Human ones. The most Green Lanterns ever killed was during the Emerald Twilight story arc and they were killed by, you guessed it, Hal Jordan.

*Haoh from Shaman King. If there is any villain that can truly be called a Mary Sue, it's him, most other villains with this accusation still get defeated. Haoh not only proves invincible throughout the whole series, able to easily pull of feats that are impossible for everybody else, he also has the ability to revive himself if killed, meaning even if the heroes beat him, which they state is impossible in a straight-up fight, it would be pointless, because he'd just back even stronger. Worse is that he goes around saying how awful humans and everyone, even the writer, seems to agree with him because the series ends with him winning, only delaying his plans to kill humanity because reasons, and gets away with a number of atrocities that would make numerous [[Chaos]] jealous. To top it all off, the sequel series has the heroes fighting to ensure he '''keeps''' his position as Shaman King because the alternatives to him would be worse, even though Haoh hasn't actually admitted plotting to destroy humanity and killing almost anyone who stood in his way was wrong, so really, there shouldn't be anybody worse than him.

*IG-88 in the ''Star Wars'' expanded universe, given that he easily breaks into the second Death Star and uploads his personality into it and takes control with nobody noticing. For those who're unfamiliar with the lore, this means that a single assassin droid managed to upload its personality into one of the most heavily-secured star stations ''in the galaxy'', without ''any'' of at least one million personnel (including techs, soldiers, and the human equivalent of Satan incarnate) discovering that anything is amiss. It also took over a planet, though this is far less Sueish than it sounds due to there being only a few dozen people on said planet in total, it having another four assassin droids to help it out, and it re-programming large numbers of extant droids to help it out in killing everyone on this planet along the way.

*[[James Bond]]. To what degree varies, but the Roger Moore version is the worst offender: he's unbeatable at just about everything, never loses his composure, a ladies' man to an unrealistic degree (even lesbians and villains who stand for everything he opposes switch sides after a dicking from Bond, not to mention that time he had sex with a lesbian was questionable consent at best...so Bond arguably gets away with actual sexual assault if not outright rape), implausibly intelligent, a crack shot, and basically unkillable. In the books, he is an unlikable git and an alcoholic, yet still gets shit done.

*James T. Kirk of [[Star Trek]], but only when written by William Shatner. While in TOS, Roddenberry himself outright stated Kirk was his Author Avatar and that he wanted the show to have the ambiance of Kirk being able to have any woman he desired, Kirk was still allowed to occasionally fail or make mistakes in certain situations. For other non-Shatner written works, the Suedom factor is kept under control by factors gone into under the list found under "Somewhat Special Cases", below.

*John Kramer, the "Jigsaw Killer" from the ''Saw'' films. Pick any character you know of with a long list of skills or attributes, this guy has more, and he keeps getting away for a half dozen movies. He's also influenced people to the point that even after he dies, some of them copy his actions and ideas and think they're doing good things.

*The Joker can be this in the hands of a poor writer. While there are damn good reasons he's one of the most iconic villains in all of pop culture, he's all too easy to write as a flawless schemer and trickster who can punch well above his weight class for no good reason. This is especially irritating if the writer takes the wrong lessons from ''The Killing Joke'' (by trying too hard to make him sympathetic; while that take on Joker is certainly tragic and nuanced, it's made very clear that his unfortunate past doesn't justify his actions... assuming it even happened at all, since he himself admits his memories of his pre-Joker life are inconsistent) and/or ''A Death in the Family'' (by reducing him to a guy who just brutally murders people; that story along with the aforementioned ''The Killing Joke'' helped make it a bigger part of his character, but it still kept his random and unpredictable goals and motivations rather than just making him a one-note murder machine who kills people for fun even when doing so would be counterproductive).

*Jon Snow (especially the show version): While this is in the books as well, it is more evident in the show and he is currently dying from a mutiny in the books. Being a bastard is a bad thing in Westeros so he gets sent to the wall, but it's uphill from there. He gets a Valyrian steel blade (which is incredibly rare and an heirloom of noble houses) in his first week. He has a pet Direwolf puppy like his siblings, but of course his looks unique. From here he gets named as squire and successor to the commander of the Night's Watch (though this does cause some resentment among his peers). Later on he meets Wildings where he spares one who turns out to be a woman; it's obvious where this goes... they don't get along, they fall in love, have sex and spend some time together, something forces them apart and she dies. She also has red hair, which stands out because among Wildings its considered lucky. While he gets stabbed like in the books, in the show he dies from it then gets resurrected by Melisandre/the Lord of Light. He's revealed to be the bastard child of Rhaegar Targereyn and Lyanna Stark, making him Westeros' rightful king, as well as Daenerys' nephew - but that doesn't stop him from having sex with aunt Daenerys*, and the incest is portrayed positively this time! Also, him beating Ramsay Bolton (see below); that's right, Jon's so Mary Sue his plot armor trumps the plot armor of another Mary Sue (to be fair, though, he was actually on the verge of losing the big battle to Ramsay right up until the moment his ass gets saved by his little sister and about four thousand mounted knights.) While some of the earlier traits don't necessarily equal a Mary Sue, they add up... oh, they add up (*Daenerys, a warqueen who brought dragons back from extinction among other things, makes mistakes and suffers consequences that would seem to impact her Sue-factor if they didn't always turn out to be functionally inconsequential in comparison to her astounding triumphs through casual part-time parenting.) Book Jon is way more well rounded as a character, where it is pointed out that he actually had a decent life as a bastard before coming to the Watch, and several choices he made ended up biting him in the ass come the mutiny.

*Jotaro Kujo, from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Part 3 and 4 (And part 6 but not in part 6... we'll get to that later). He's pretty much invincible like Kenshiro, but unlike Kenshiro, he didn't train a single day to be as hax as he is (His Stand "Star Platinum" is really strong, at the cost of short range, but plot gets in the way and he always gets close enough to ORAORA the bad guys). Also unlike Kenshiro, he is an asshole to everyone, but never suffers any consequences from it (Women literally ADORE him despite his jerkass attitude, because 80's). He spends the entire trip to Egypt spurting out massive amounts of [[Just as planned]] against every villain of the week, or simply getting powers as plot demands, some of the most outrageous examples being: The use of "Star Finger", which completely negates the previously stated range weakness; His "battle" against Steely Dan, where he DID get humilliated but retributed it tenfold in the end; His "battle" against Alessi, where he gets to beat a grown man unconscious with his bare fists despite being turned back into a SEVEN YEAR OLD; His battle against main villain DIO where he wins DIO's time stopping powers for bullshit reasons and wins; and, even more ridiculously, being able to RESURRECT his very dead Grandpa Joseph by [[what|using his stand for blood transfusing and heart-resetting]]. In part 4 he mellows down a lot, most notably [[FAIL|getting beaten by a rat]], but that doesn't prevent him from beating the shit out of the main villain Kira TWICE and stealing the spotlight from Uncle Josuke (The titular Jojo of part 4) on his final battle; too bad Josuke!. Part 6 however, does a great job at not only nerfing but rounding him altogether, the Jojo this time being his own daughter, Jolyne Cujoh (Note that is not Kujo), a delinquent who ends out in prison and resents him greatly for being an awful, absent father and constantly reminds him of it. He attempts to "fix" things but [[Just as planned|falls into one of main villain Pucci's schemes]] and is rendered comatose for great part of the story, when he latter regains his powers (With a significant decrease in durability) and comes to terms with Jolyne, the villain becomes Godlike and ends out killing him along with the entire universe; too bad Shonen Jump!, now seinen is Araki's best friend. In Pucci's universe he is a complete spineless weakling, but in case that was a bit too much, reality resets again and creates [[Awesome|a new universe free of the Joestars Tragic Fate and Part 3's bullshit]]. PD: In the Videogame Eyes of Heaven he is even worse, but this entry is already too long so i'll only say the creators weren't too good with resolutions.

*Kai Leng, from ''[[Bioware#Mass_Effect_3_.28The_Downfall.29|Mass Effect 3]]''. You're constantly told he's a badass assassin, but when he shows up, Shepard's crew suddenly become drooling idiots so Leng can strut about, act tough, and monologue. He brags about killing Thane (alien assassin squadmate from the previous game) even though the latter was hobbled by a terminal illness requiring daily medical care and Thane ''STILL'' got the drop on Kai Leng; Thane even says himself "That other assassin should be embarrassed. A terminally-ill Drell kept him from reaching his target." When you "win" the "fight" against him on Thessia, he still gets away, utterly unaffected by the crumbling architecture that stops Shepard from pursuing him. By the end of the fight, you've advanced the plot a grand total of nowhere, regurgitated information you already have, and been hamstrung as a player because the writer wants his character to look cool. He is yet another antagonist dropped onto a story filled with them, but is nothing more than a costume, sword, and book of one-liners. Unlike Saren from ME1, we have no connection with this douchebag because the story doesn't give him enough screen time to develop into anything.
** Alternate take: What appears to be Sue-ness is BioWare writing him as a Hate Sink. (Basically a character designed to be hated and nothing else, [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HateSink ask those smashers at TV Tropes for more info].) BioWare were using the Reapers as cool villains and leaning into the Illusive Man getting the Darth Vader treatment of the tragic, sympathetic villain who can possibly redeem himself with his death, so Leng became the game's villainous punching bag. Given what a gut punch the final battle is, clearly they wanted Leng's ultimate downfall to give the player a moment of catharsis so they could take a small victory where they got it. And for that to work, it had to be satisfying, and that meant he had to get on the player's nerves without an excuse or understandable motive to undercut their focused rage against him. Note that during the final battle against him, Shepard spends the whole time dressing him down as a coward who can only win by running away and after beating him, smashes his stupid sword and guts him like a fish with their omni-blade. [[Awesome|"That was for Thane, you son of a bitch!"]]

*[[Fist of the North Star|Kenshiro]], nothing can kill him and he's morally flawless, superior to everyone-fucking-else. At least until Shin Saga in the anime, where he starts fucking up often, even with his super kung-fu laser ninja powers. Most battles are curb-stomps until later on because ''it's a fucking show from the 80's''. Do note, however, that Kenshiro loses a ''lot,'' especially later on, and mostly wins his hardest battles because he's the only one worth a shit left alive by that point in the series.

*Kirby from his/their (Localization made him a he instead of ambiguous as in Japan, and it's been [[Skub|discussed]] ever since) eponymous franchise, and the first brainchild of the Smash man. Kids' game logic is in effect, but even then it can be egregious. Between their [[/d/|insta-death inhaling]], the Copy Ability (and various gimmick abilities throughout the franchise), unnatural toughness, and [[What|godkilling streak]], the puffball is a strong contender for most powerful video game character. However, their immense, possibly-Eldritch (as of Star Allies) power is balanced by the fact they're almost always portrayed as ignorant if not a full-blown [[Derp|dumbass baby]]. Seriously, their naive nature is known to cause various problems for themselves and others. Notable feats include repeatedly turning back an all-assimilating Eldritch hivemind, defeating an interdimensional wizard and the god-crown he wore, singlehandedly bringing down an [[Games Workshop|uber-greedy megacorporation]] and stopping their AI from going full [[Exterminatus]], destroying(?) an actual Eldritch god of darkness and destruction [[What|they may or may not be related to]], and stopping a god-alien (not-so-originally called [[Original character, do not steal|the Ultimate Lifeform]]) from causing two worlds to collide just by [[WTF|running it over with Truck-Kun]].

*Kratos from ''[[God of War]]''. He curb-stomps fucking gods due to [[plot armor]] (and because one of them decided to give a bloody psychopath the powers of a god; MENSA applicant right there) and he has threesomes with complete strangers, even though he is meant to be grieving for the death of his family that he himself murdered. Oh and the rules for how death works change whenever it's convenient for him. Err, some of this is because most of the gods he kills with super-powerful items, including Blade of Olympus, the God of War universe's version of Zeus' lightning bolts the cyclopes gave him to defeat the titans, which has been infused with all the power of the Greek God of War. And he is later revealed to house the Power of Hope since GoW1, a power strong enough to kill gods. Now he is starting a new family in Norse mythology land Midgard while STILL having the "godly" super strength despite the blade of Olympus having drained all his power and given it all to the world. (Note that he clearly didn't give up his combat experience nor his genetics as a demi-god son of Zeus. Even without those things, he's at minimum a heavily trained demi-god from the strongest of the Greek gods.) At least he acknowledged how fucking awful he was in the past and tried to be a good father toward his new son Atreus, but still keeping his no gods allowed policy.

*Lana Lang from the TV show ''Smallville'' (note; Smallville is not considered canon to the Superman story by DC Comics). Almost big a Mary Sue as Bella from Twilight; almost because she actually has a few useful skills, but she learns them unrealistically quickly (becoming a black belt in martial arts in ''one week''). She has the cliché orphan story but with a unique spin for maximum snowflake effect (her parents were killed by a meteor strike), everyone in the story loves her with the exception of some villains (the key word is SOME), and she's treated as someone who can do no wrong. Lana even got on the cover of TIME magazine, in-universe, as a child! She serves as a wedge between Clark and having a relationship with any other girl and between Clark and his eventual Superman destiny. Clark technically sacrificed his father to save her! In one episode, Clark rewound time on a day in which Lana died, and instead lost his father.

*Lightning from ''Final Fantasy XIII'', she is basically a pink-haired Cloud without any of Cloud's likable personality traits. She's currently the NEW AND ASTONISHING HEAVENLY Valkyrie that fights a purple Sephiroth in her new game "Lightning's Return". Not that we care, but she was created by Motomu Toriyama ([[Matt Ward]]'s Japanese cousin), a man with a Chris-Chan-like persona and Matthew Ward-style writing who is now continuously raping the franchise. He has a waifu love for Lightning like Paul has for Alice. Lightning is comparable to Alice on many levels, which says a lot, really. She also has tons of fucking DLC "costumes" dedicated to her so the player could dress her up and fap her to death. This is so fucking shameful that I'm crazy enough to believe Alice is a much capable heroine. Somebody kill me, please. Oh, just recently, Toriyama decided to have Lightning become a guest character in a future Final Fantasy. So not only is the franchise gonna suffer the rotting Emperor syndrome, but Lightning is now the literal goddess of every Final Fantasy game? Seriously, have you ever seen Paul doing such disgusting things with Alice? Like forcing Alice into an actual ''Resident Evil'' game (well, the ''Resident Evil'' franchise is dead as well)? Motomu Toriyama is officially worse than Paul Anderson!!
** Gets worse: Toriyama has stated that Lighting is the "first" strong female character in any ''Final Fantasy''. Even ignoring the dozens of better-written female characters, some of which he himself has written, the "strong" meaning just physical doesn't work either; FF7's Tifa (a game he worked on, btw) can punch tanks to death.

*Lisa Simpson from ''The Simpsons'', depending on the writer. Lisa has dipped into Mary Sue-dom the same way as the above-mentioned Brian from Family Guy (both serving time as smug mouthpieces for their show's creators on hot-button-topics). There was also a time where Lisa had the tendency to never be punished for the times she does do the wrong doing (she ruins Homer's BBQ in "Lisa the Vegetarian" and merely got scolded by him where Bart would likely have been strangled for it). One episode had people deferring to Lisa over Prof. Stephen Hawking in Hawking's area of expertise, and Groening once said Lisa is his favorite character and that he would do anything to prevent her from looking bad (to reference the strangling; the show's animators also applied a double-standard as they strongly protested against the idea of Homer strangling Lisa for upsetting him like he does with Bart). While Lisa's popularity in-universe fluctuates, at its worst the whole town bends over backwards for her even when it goes past characterization (eg; Springfieldians can be '''VERY''' sore losers, as demonstrated in the episode "Boys of Bummer" where the whole town - sans Marge - ridiculed Bart for losing a sports game [[Grimdark|to the point that they nearly drove the 10 year old to suicide]], but when Lisa lost a spelling contest she was applauded for winning second place and got a Mount Rushmore-style sculpture of her face). That being said, there are episodes where Lisa is depicted as unpopular at school, her activism is made over-the-top to be played for laughs, she's neglected at home and less of a "smartest person around" and more of a "only sane person surrounded by idiots", lessening the Sue-factor.

*Lucy from the 2014 movie of the same name. Long story short, she gets forced by gangsters to smuggle drugs in her stomach, but the container bursts and the drugs make her smarter and use more and more of her brain, because this movie was seriously written around the pseudoscientific premise that humans only use 10% of their brain. This also causes her to [[What|develop superpowers somehow]], and at the end of the movie she basically becomes god.

*Magneto is not inherently one, but he does have the INSANE potential to become this when crappy writers start taking his sympathetic traits too far ("Hey guys, let's [[What|make Magneto a member of the X-Men and have him date Rogue]]!") or just forget he's the bad guy. Hell, he sometimes becomes this even when he's a horribly despicable villain. Jeph Loeb's raping of the Ultimate Universe known as "Ultimatum" has him use his magnetic powers to nearly destroy the world just by waving his hands at Earth's magnetic poles (completely breaking the laws of physics in the process) and then effortlessly take on half the X-Men and almost all of the Ultimates singlehandedly and nearly win.

*Master Chief from the ''[[Halo]]'' series is definitely one. For one, he has [[Matt Ward|Ward-grade]] [[Heresy|plot armor]]. Seriously, it was repeated throughout the games that he was born with the word [[What|'''LUCK''']]. To further expand on his Sueness, this 7-foot tall hunk of raging Leprechaun saved the entire Galaxy ''Twice!'', single-handedly stopped the Human-Covie War at the last minute, escaped and defeated an entire race of "Super-Space-Zombie-Fungus" that could mindfuck Culture-tier Civilizations without [[What|having his own brain being raped]], is one of the last surviving SPARTAN II's, solo an entire legion of Covenant Honor-Guards (Which are equivalent to Spacemarine Captain in rank but with inferior gear and training) as well as successfully assassinating a very important Covie leader protected by said Guards without being captured, survived escaping an Exterminatus-level explosion that destroyed a Super-Weapon 'Ring' by ''out-flying it'', somehow his armor is strong enough to deflect Fuel-Rod shots (Which are essentially Plasma Cannons), destroy a flying and mentally psychotic lightbulb with an overcharged Lascannon as a Self-Defence weapon (To be fair 343 Guilty Spark ''is'' a Forerunner Janitor Robot), and did I mention he saved the entire Galaxy ''twice''? Furthermore with the release of Halo 4, MC is now magically gifted the genes and DNA by the Librarian to become full on [[RAGE|''impervious to a fucking Forerunner Super-Weapon/Death-Beam'']], which allows him to single-handedly fight through the insides of a very important Forerunner Capital Ship filled with Necron/Warp-Spiders kill bots and somehow through the act of plot, [[Derp|defeat ''the'' highest ranked Forerunner Military General that has the power to solo the entire Galactic Empire from Star Wars.]] I mean [[Rage|WTF!]] did the developers of Halo not realize that they just created a character with plot-armor so powerful that they make the likes of [[Kaldor Draigo]] look decent in comparison? Thankfully however, as pants-on-head retarded as some of the feats listed for MC are, he at least has some faults such as being psychologically raped in childhood, doesn't have the "Morally Superior to thou" personality and has a very grim view of the war, almost got killed by the killer space popcorn, being rather mediocre for a SPARTAN II when compared to his other colleagues, is only good in leadership and even then made some stupid mistakes, gets pretty beaten the fuck up by a Brute, his Superhuman abilities only stopped when fighting against low-ranked Elites and know he will lose against one if he fought one-by-one, and most of the battles he has been through had almost cost him his life. Those faults listed are what makes good old Chiefy ''NOT'' in the top 10 most powerful Mary-Sues and makes him somewhat tolerable albeit boring compared to the other listed.

*Moka Akashiya from Rosario + Vampire: Stupidly fucking OP enough to one-shot kick '''EVERY OTHER FUCKING MONSTER''' IN THE '''ENTIRE FUCKING SERIES''' AND '''BOTH''' SEASONS, has a ''special exception'' to her power levels made so she gets 'first ancestor' vampire blood to enable her to be ''even more powerful'', has no character development ''at all'' (this is true of both her personalities), is a student at an academy and one-shot kicks two members ''of the fucking faculty'' '''AND TOTALLY GETS AWAY WITH IT''', and is ''unbearably arrogant'', revelling in her power and basically saying everyone else is beneath her. The reason she's this bad? The author admits he LOVES vampires. So she's not only an Author Avatar, but a Canon Sue as well, existing only for [[Heresy|heretical deviants]] to fap to and the author to [[Slaanesh|schlick]] to. God-Emperor fucking damn it, Akihisa Ikeda. You little shit. What's worse is that [[Matt Ward|he has no shame about it]]. [[C.S.Goto| No, really]].
**This is lessened slightly during S1's later episodes (and S2 more generally), with a number of non-vampire characters who rather easily take her down or otherwise outmatch her being introduced. Compared to the big leagues, she's a promising new recruit but not comparable to them.

*Mordenkainen, Gary Gygax's personal avatar in the Greyhawk setting and a level 30 wizard who never fucking ages past 50 despite being a hundred fucking years old without turning into a lich, he became bald for some reason, which makes him look evil, but he remains Stupid Neutral.

*Olympia Vale, another character from the [[Halo]] Series and seems to be all around taking over the mantle of Mary Sue from Master Chief as he is pushed in the sidelines like an old man being pushed in the old folks home. Whilst Locke has been accused for being a rather bland and forgettable copycat cutout of the original MC, he still pales in comparison to that of Vale. Essentially imagine Vale as MC but remove the sociopathic and borderline mentally damaged aspects of John 117, make her a prodigy even beyond that of Spartan recruits which in turn made her pretty easy to integrate in the SPARTAN IV program and make her instantly learn the language of the Elites whilst by herself in space with the only excuse being that [[Bullshit|'she was bored'.]] Vale and to an extent, the majority of the SPARTAN IV's seem to be an ongoing campaign from Karen Traviss (AKA the Destroyer of Fluff and Halo's Matt Ward) [[Derp|to further demonize Halsey and her SPARTAN II program]] for no better reason other than being forced to be [[Fail|unethical in an organization as ethically sound as the]] [[Inquisition|Imperial Inquisition.]] As you can imagine, this has already spurred some [[Skub|ire bitching]] in the Halo community and only time will tell if newer sequels from the game would flash her character out in a more decent or obscene matter.

*Ozymandias, AKA, Adrian Alexander Veidt from ''Watchmen''. He was born into a wealthy family, then threw it all away and earned even more money. He's a perfect athlete, good-looking, smartest man in the world (He mind fucked Dr. Manhattan, a blueish godlike superhuman) and a vegetarian. In the book he is able to successfully genetically engineer some sort of monster that would be teleported to New York and as it dies unleash a psychic shockwave that would kill millions in a "common enemy" plot to avert World War 3 by uniting them against "interdimensional aliens" (he does the same in the movie, but instead of aliens, he tricks people into making Dr Manhattan their common enemy - Dr Manhattan himself goes along with the plan once he finds out so there will be world peace). The only downside he had is loneliness, since he had betrayed all his friends and killed the only companion in his life, a fucking genetically-engineered female lynx named Bubastis, by having her bait Dr. Manhattan to the incinerator and killed them both with a switch. Still, Ozymandias is perfect because Mary Sue don't need friends. It was also portrayed that his "common enemy" scheme to stop World War 3 (which involved killing millions) in a positive or at least sympathetic light. He also caught a bullet fired from a gun with his bare hands, and the bullet didn't just go through them, like it would in real-life, despite him not having superpowers. Interesting to note that he the idol he worships: Alexander of Macedonia, is a man born before Christ, and the name Ozymandias is reference to a freaking [[Necron|Egyptian pharaoh: Ramses II]], proving that Adrian is just as egoistic as [[Dante]] and the [[Ultramarines]] by have the name of an ancient ruler as his own nickname. Hell, his color page on "before the watchman" made him looked like some sort of floating Jesus!! Thankfully, he has the decency to acknowledge what he did was wrong in the comics while also justifying it as being for the greater good...which it was in that it stopped World War 3, and he is more complex and well rounded as a character than several others.
** There's also the deliberately ambiguous implication that Ozymandias could get some comeuppance in the future (author Alan Moore stated that what happened after the end of the graphic novel is for each reader to decide for themselves); this is done with Dr Manhattan's cryptic response to Ozymandias' question whether things would work out, and Rorschach giving his journal - containing evidence implicating Ozymandias and revealing his plan - to a news outlet.
** A direct sequel to Watchmen called "Doomsday Clock" came and finally made Ozymandias pay for what he has done. After the news outlet ousted Veidt's plans, it started a chain of reaction that eventually led to his downfall as well as the supposed end of humanity. The European Union dissolved, the USSR went back its old warmonger ways with their relation between the US degrading to lows below even the Cold War, nuclear weapons failed to be disarmed and one such missile was fired from Russia to New York City. Adrian is now the most wanted man in the world and has brain cancer (possibly ironically validating what he framed Dr. Manhattan for). Still, he managed to fight his way out of this chaos with other DC heroes (Superman and the godamned Batman mind you, characters with thick plot armor), the Comedian (brought back by Manhattan), pretty much everyone around the world but especially Dr. Manhattan (who masterminded this all from his glass palace on Mars). Also, keep in mind this sequel is not written by Alan Moore himself so it's at best considered an alternate continuity.

*Prometheus (the DC supervillain) certainly didn't ''start'' as this but ended up being twisted into one. When first introduced he was a genuinely cool and intimidating supervillain whose insane skill and manipulations were balanced out by his crippling mental issues (which the heroes exploited to take him down). Unfortunately, writers who weren't as skilled as Grant Morrison got their paws on him and made him ludicrously overpowered to the point where he single-handedly ''destroyed Star City, killing Roy Harper's daughter in the process''. Thus Prometheus went from an awesome member of Batman's rogues gallery to a complete waste of pages. Thankfully he was prevented from becoming any worse thanks to Green Arrow putting an arrow through the bastard's skull.

*Ramsay Bolton (show version): Oh good fucking God, where to start with this particular Villain Sue? Well, for one, he manages to take on twenty of the best Ironborn warriors, who were all heavily armed and armored, while not just unarmored but SHIRTLESS and armed with nothing but a kitchen knife and a mace, and SOMEHOW kicks their asses. Then, much later, he is shown to completely annihilate the battle-hardened Stormlander army led by Stannis Baratheon, the greatest military commander in Westeros, with nothing but cavalry, while the previous episodes had established that Ramsay is a tactically inept moron. (This can also tie in with the fact that the writers of the show seriously fucked over Stannis from "stern-but-honorable competent tactical genius" into "greedy, fanatical dumbass"). Finally, he is constantly shown to get his way no matter how stupidly contrived it seems to the viewer, arguably the worst case being marrying and deflowering Sansa Stark by raping her and getting the killing blow on fan-favorite giant Wun-Wun. His Sueness ends with his face getting caved in by Jon and fed to his own hounds by Sansa.

*Rey AKA Ma-Rey Sue from the [[Star Wars]]. From the release of the first movie, she already caught some backlash among the old guards of Star Wars who consider her a self-insert Mary Sue with a feminist agenda. Leaving aside the politics, the resulting trilogy and related events have only confirmed Rey’s Mary Sue-dom. Reasons from the first movie alone include Rey showing [[What|a better knowledge of the Millennium Falcon’s inner workings than then Han Solo and Chewbacca]] who’d maintained the ship for decades where she had it for less than a week, being offered a job by Han shortly after meeting him despite him and Chewie being sufficient crew for the Falcon and Han being a cynic who barely knows her (like something right out "A Trekkie's Tale"), Rey suddenly being a [[Wat|powerful Force user who can resist a trained Force-user's mind probe]] despite no previous mention of her being Force sensitive and [[Bullshit|Rey performing said Jedi mind trick while in captivity almost immediately after learning she's Force Sensitive]] despite the fact that performing said trick is known to be difficult to master (to be fair, Rey had just been in telepathic contact with somebody who knew how to pull off a Mind Trick, and wasn't as good at telepathic interrogation as he thought he was). Rey’s only character flaw is recklessness, and while it does get her captured by the villains in the first and third films, this is offset by Rey getting rescued unharmed both times by luck/plot armour, which is a Sue-ish trait (at least Luke suffered actual setbacks and injuries – such as a severed hand and failing to save Han from Boba Fett). Furthering Rey’s status of Mary Sue is the “creator's relationship to the character” part, with several of the filmmakers either pulling new explanations out of their asses to explain Rey’s abilities (or retconning them, such as the Force “cheat-coding” and the “Force Dyad”) or attacking anyone who didn’t like the character by tarring them with the same negative brushes ([[SJW|accusations of sexism got lots of usage]]). The third film threw in the big twist that Rey is ''really'' Rey '''Palpatine'''. You heard right, Rey is literally Emperor Palpatine's ''granddaughter'', almost as if they're trying to one-up Luke’s relation to Vader. The third film also ends with Rey taking the last name “Skywalker” while Luke and Leia’s force ghosts look on approvingly. For a more comprehensive coverage on why Rey is a Mary Sue, look up the results of the Mary Sue Litmus test on the discussion page.
** While it could be argued that Luke and Anakin are just as ridiculous, they fit easier the form of tropes they are. Luke, being the most classic [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheHero Hero] ever, is quickly established as good at most things he does, culminating in flying an X-Wing through the Death Star trench and making an one-in-a-million shot to destroy the Death Star, and this is less than a week before he was just a backwater farmboy, albeit one who is outright stated to be both a decent pilot and skilled shot. Though while Luke used the Force untrained like Rey did, his only feats were enhancing skills he already had and developed; a stretch, but more plausible than pulling new skills ''that require training to use'' out of nowhere. Anakin is the [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChosenOne Chosen One], and people who are chosen tend to be skilled and powerful regardless because the Powers-That-Be have their backs on top of any personal skills they have. Young Ani competes and wins a pod-race that only aliens can normally participate in due to the sheer insanity of it, and then blows up a Trade Federation Dreadnought with a fighter he'd never been in before (even then kid Anakin also had R2-D2's help). Again, no problem. Now Rey is about as much the Hero as Luke but is an Unchosen One compared to Anakin, and the wildest thing she does in her first movie is to use the Force untrained (much like Luke does in A New Hope) and gain the upper hand on a Sith apprentice. Why people doesn't expect her to be [[-4 Str|as powerful]] as [[Lawful Good|Luke]] and [[BBEG|Anakin]] is better left for another discussion entirely, though the fact that Rey is touted as a strong female character while being propped up by the failures of men and saved by men throughout the trilogy doesn't help her case. Also, Rey has never once lost a fight in the movies, while Anakin first got his arm chopped off in a hilariously one-sided fight with Dooku then later had all his limbs cut off and was lit on fire in his duel with Obi-Wan, and Luke was totally outmatched by Vader in The Empire Strikes Back and got his ass handed to him on a beskar platter.
** Another thing to consider is the ridiculous timeline of Episode 7 and 8. In approximately 5-6 days, Rey went from being a scavenger on Jakku to defeating Snoke's bodyguards and being on par with Kylo Ren in combat.

*Richard, from the Sword of Truth series (he's not as bad in the TV series). He is always considered an ideal hero despite being cruel, sociopathic, and thinking that the universe should bend over backwards for him [[What|(which it actually does)]]. Everyone who disagrees with him is evil (even if that's the only reason they're considered a villain) or turns evil. Gratuitous rape is thrown in by the author as a cheap way to make him look better (making villains as reprehensible as possible doesn't solve the problem of the protagonist being completely un-heroic).

*Richard B. Riddick, from the Riddick universe. Vin Diesel's personal self-insert inspired from his own D&D Rogue. Didn't start out as a Mary Sue though, going from a sensible power level ''(where a fist-fight with a morphine-addicted merc is reasonably fair)'' with dubious morality and a lovably snarky badass attitude. Later becoming ''(particularly amongst the directors cuts)'' a superpowered badass who can single-handedly take on squads of soldiers with a knife, resist soul sucking, commune with animals and make threats with [[Just as Planned]] modes of killing. ''("kill you with my teacup" / "dead in 5 seconds")'', oh... he can also explode as shown in the director's cuts and off-screen in the video games. His later portrayals also show his morality becoming a "told you so" mentality, where, when people die it's really because they are the assholes and nothing to do with Riddick.

*Rick Sanchez, of Rick and Morty, in seasons 3+. (See Rick under "Special Cases", below; the only reason we're not moving him here completely is because Rick and Morty arguably became an ''entirely'' different show between seasons 2 and 3.)

*Roran, from the Inheritance Cycle. He started as a farmer-apprentice blacksmith, yet he managed to become an invincible warrior, charismatic presence, expert orator and master strategist without any training. We are talking of a young man who soloes 194 soldiers in a melee battle and wins without taking any major injuries. He then survived a public flogging severe enough to be an alternative to execution despite it being not long after that battle. He also beat an Urgal in a wrestling match despite the Urgal being stronger, bigger, better trained and having horns. In the third book he even single-handedly defeated a Ra'zac; a race that are to humans what wolves are to sheep. Then in the final battle Roran bested the magically-enhanced warrior who killed the elf-queen, and did so without magic or special weapons of his own. Yes, Roran managed to achieve feats that even elves would consider impossible. While his cousin Eragon has the (weak) excuses of magical enhancement and helping from his dragon companion, Roran doesn't. He is a common man who, for plot reasons, creates a plot armor just by thinking about his girlfriend.

* Sarah Kerrigan from the Starcraft series has become this more and more as time passes. In the first game she's just a terran ghost (psionic assassin) who gets turned into a human-zerg hybrid and disappears from the plot after like two or three missions in the zerg campaign, but then she becomes one of the main villains of the expansion pack and everyone else in in the game becomes a thundering dumbass so she can look like a master manipulator despite being played for a sap by yet another character, and commits several atrocities to serve herself and her own agenda but is not punished them in any way despite multiple characters swearing revenge on her. Then the sequel ramped it up. Out of fucking nowhere she is designated the savior of the galaxy from the new villain in town with virtually no justification offered except that Blizzard were too cowardly and attached to the the character to follow through on people wanting her dead. She gets purified of zerg corruption and another character who's more fun and interesting gets killed off so she can live. The zerg campaign centers on her and shows her doing yet more pointlessly-cruel and destructive things in the name of petty revenge, its only concessions to the ridiculousness of letting her live being some half-hearted acknowledgements of her past crimes. And after a pair of pointless guest appearances in the protoss campaign and its prologue campaign, she gets picked by the last good Xel'Naga in the universe to receive his essence and become a Xel'Naga herself so she can defeat the main villain in a laser beam-off. And after her boyfriend, a better-written character who spends all his time getting shit on throughout the series, is seen moping in a bar at the end of the final campaign, she gets to ass pullingly make him a Xel'Naga too, for some moron's idea of resolving their relationship with happily ever after ending.

*Sakamoto from 'Haven't You Heard? I'm Sakamoto' never fails at anything and always manages to look [[Awesome]] no matter what he is doing or how much the other characters try to sabotage him, and it is hilarious.

*Selene, from the 'Underworld' movies. Throughout the series, she bears several similarities to [[Alice]]; both are experts with weapons, both have superior biology to their respective species (humans for Alice, Vampires for Selene), both kill their way through swarms of enemies without getting a scratch, both have little regard for their source material, and both are played by the wives of the directors of their respective film series.

*The Sun Crusher, from [[Star Wars]]. Possibly one of the few cases where a Mary Sue was not a character, but a ''superweapon''. This...thing first came under the much [[Skub]] Jedi Academy books and was considered so fucking overpowered its mere existence created more plotholes than [[Erda]] would have pushed out. Hated by basically everyone in the fandom, this fucking trainwreck of a superweapon was small and fast as hell, had weapons that could [[Exterminatus|destroy an entire star system]] and has armor so powerful it could even [[Wat|tank a glancing hit from a ''Prototype Death Star''.]] Seriously, there was one case where the Sun Crusher destroyed an entire ISD by simply [[RAGE|''ramming into the fucker'']]. And you thought Goku's power wanking was filthy. This abomination makes [[the World Engine]] look limp-dicked in comparison. Considered one of the worst examples of Legends' superweapon power creep (previous superweapons were frequently OP, but at least they generally had notable limitations and vulnerabilities), this overpowered mess of an idea almost broke the Star Wars EU itself since anyone piloting this proverbial [[Rape|rape train]] could have single-handily curb-stomped both the Galactic Empire and the Yuuzhan Vong ''combined''. Also, it kinda looks like an ice cream cone for some reason.

*Squirrel Girl from Marvel Comics is another one of these Sues who's actually popular and enjoyed for it, probably because she's played entirely for laughs: Doreen Grey is a [[Mutant]] teenage girl with Spider-Man levels of strength/speed/agility, can grow bone knuckles, can talk to squirrels (and have them do her bidding) and has the ability to defeat any villain she wants off-screen. This includes big-name villains like Doctor Doom (she beat him in her first appearance and several times afterwards, and this is a rare instance of a Doom-related incident that was ''not'' smoothed over with the "Just a Doombot" excuse), Ego the Living Planet (who is, like his name suggests, a planet, meaning that a teenage girl beat up a planet), Thanos (who is one of the biggest badasses of the Marvel Universe, but the writers saved his face by replacing him in this instance with a perfect copy of him), Deadpool (whom she calls the mean, mean man; he's actually scared of her), M.O.D.O.K. and tons of other people. She was once part of a C-list superhero team, but quit because she thought she was holding them back (which she was entirely correct about: she once apologized to them for being late because she had to beat a 100' space dragon) and left for Marvel's Nexus of the Multiverse: New York. Despite her unapologetic Mary Sue-ness the fans love her and see her as the one spot of light in the otherwise relentlessly [[grimdark]] Marvel Universe, because again, she's played entirely for laughs and there's nary a title in Marvel Comics that couldn't do with more laughs.

*[[Superman]] in the hands of a poor writer. He is morally perfect, one of the strongest beings in the DC universe, and his one weakness that's supposed to kill him never works <s>ex: he lifts an entire continent of Kryptonite after being stabbed by a dagger made of it</s> thankfully ''Superman Returns'' had so many plotholes that ''Man of Steel'' declared it all non-canon. The only reliable way to nerf him is to have Batman beside him, because Superman always becomes a dumbass when Batman is around (go watch DCAU Justice League to see for yourself). Good writers can avoid falling into this by having him go up against villains who can genuinely threaten him (such as General Zod, Maxima or Doomsday; in fact, the writers made Doomsday specifically to be a threat who can physically match Superman), showing that even with all his vast powers there are things Superman just can't do (in one tragic story it turned out that even though he can benchpress planets, he can't stop his parents from dying of cancer) or emphasizing that his strong morals are not intrinsic to him, but a product of a happy childhood, caring parents and a network of close friends, and he wouldn't necessarily have them if he were raised somewhere less pleasant (like, say, Planet Apokolips or the Soviet Union - both actually happened in Elseworlds stories, look it up) or if those close to him were taken away (like in the Injustice and Kingdom Come comic series).

*Tauriel, Peter Jackson's special snowflake from ''The Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug'' (a Mary Sue in something related to Tolkien; [[Tolkien|Beren and Luthien are deep and well-written enough to get a pass]], this is a sad day). Not content with undermining or retconning the book, Jackson creates a special snowflake elf OC. Tauriel's ridiculously skilled at fighting to the point she matches Legolas in archery - and he's pretty OP in the films (as shown when she shoots an arrow at him when he surprises her, he returns fire and their arrows collide with each other) - she also has healing powers. According to all of Tolkien's books, only a select few elves can heal people such as Lord Elrond Half-Elven, wielder of one of the three Elven Rings of Power, some who's studied healing for millennia and is a direct descendant of the Kings of the Noldor; all things which Tauriel lacks. In addition, she's ship-teased with canon-characters Legolas (who never appears, or even gets mentioned, in the book - albeit he was shoehorned into the film to cash in on his popularity with fangirls and his presence makes some sense since his father Thranduil was in the book) and Kili. To be fair, some of the ship tease between Kili and Tauriel is well handled as well, in particular when Kili teases her and then tells her stories when locked in prison.

* Tobias (or Takuto in the original Japanese) from the Pokémon anime. His design looking like someone was trying ''way'' too hard to make him seem "mysterious" and "badass" is just the tip of the iceberg. For starters, he has ''at least'' two legendaries in the form of Darkrai and Latios, despite the anime earlier establishing how difficult it was for even Frontier Brains (who are trainers deliberately selected by Battle Frontier head honcho Scott from among the best of the best) to acquire and control Pokémon of such caliber. How he got such Pokémon is never explained. When he faced off against Ash in the Sinnoh League after only getting a few mentions and cameos beforehand, he knocked out Ash's entire team while losing only the aforementioned Darkrai and Latios, then went on to win the league and essentially disappear from the show entirely. To put it simply, he was clearly only put in the anime to prevent Ash from winning so that he wouldn't end his journey - which didn't even make any sense, since Ash had ''already'' won a league (the Orange League) and still continued traveling and training; as a matter of fact, it would be out of character for a spirited competition hound like Ash to sit on his laurels no matter how many awards and accolades he won. While Tobias wasn't the first character to knock Ash out of a league competition and wouldn't be the last, him being an inexplicably absurdly overpowered trainer who blatantly only existed to keep Ash from winning made him by far the most hated.

* Tyrion Lannister from Game of Thrones, most of it strictly in the show (especially in the later seasons), much, much less in the books. He is exceedingly smart, capable of fighting against trained soldiers double his size, ends up at Daenarys' court despite her having more than ample reasons to distrust him, gets in charge of Mereen for no reason given when Daenarys disappears, runs a complete shitshow on top of it and still somehow ends up in her council, where he continues to give advice that is just plain wrong and sets back Daenarys' efforts to retake Westeros. His sheer incompetence in Seasons 7 and 8 should get him at least fired, if not outright executed. Instead, the showrunners abandon his character arc altogether to make him the audience's avatar and the closest thing the setting has to Prime Minister in the end, who also is able to make all of the lords of Westeros follow his idea of an elective monarchy, which he came up with on a whim. This is counterbalanced by his character as portrayed in the books and the earlier seasons (incidentally the ones where GRRM was still actively involved in the production of the series), where he is impulsive, arrogant and extremely vindictive (to the point of murdering his former lover, a prostitute, for sleeping with his father in a jealous rage) towards nearly everyone in his immediate vicinity. To add to this, he is also often too blinded by his hatred for his own family to see the bigger picture; where Tywin gave him the authority to act as Hand of the King in his absence as a last chance to prove his worth for the Lannister name, only for him to disregard all of Tywin's advice and orders out of spite.

*[[Star Trek|Wesley Crusher]]. Wesley FUCKING Crusher. Originating from the same franchise as the original Mary Sue, Wesley is a very young ensign training to be an officer in Starfleet, where he's earned the admiration of many of the bridge officers. He became something of a protege to Captain Picard, who was impressed by Wesley after he showed that he had learned all the controls at the captain's chair when they first met. <s>While not morally perfect or incorruptible Wesley is as close as he can be in most cases</s> He's only moral by Gene Roddenberry's standards ''(which were messed up beyond belief, the man thought it was okay to be a prima donna director but not for children to grieve over dead loved ones, and that's not getting into his corporate shyster practices, anti-religious prejudices and sexism; seriously we're not making any of that up)'', by a normal person's, he's smug and egocentric, along with his [[Deus Ex Machina]] techno skills, which are shown off by making the rest of the crew look useless. He notably also gets the Enterprise into danger before getting it out of it, and never gets called out for it. Many people thought that he was an insufferable little shit, among them Wil Wheaton (the actor who PLAYED the guy... and coming from him, that's saying something). Wesley is even named after Gene Roddenberry, as Wesley was Gene's middle name - or to give Gene's full name, Eugene ''Wesley'' Roddenberry. That said, Wesley gets better once Roddenbery wasn't dictating the story. He does get served a healthy dose of reality in "The First Duty", wherein he lies to cover up the fact that his Academy flight team was doing a dangerous and illegal stunt that got one of them killed and pinned all the blame for the accident on the dead kid. Picard absolutely ''shreds'' him when he realizes what's going on, delivering one of the best speeches of any Trek series in the process, and Wesley faces actual consequences for his actions.

*[[Loli|Young main characters]] in crappy [[Asians|Japanese]] [[anime|animes]] and [[manga]].

*Main characters from Japanese [[Isekai]] light novels. Usually they were nerds or losers whose only interested in a particular underrated hobby/talent in their world, but became a fucking skyrim tier powerhouse once they enter the so-called mysterious otherworld. Upon entering, they became super powerful since their somewhat boring talent suddenly becomes a miracle to the other world residents thus making the main character successful. It is a trend that they will done the following to prove their superiority: wrecking Saturday cartoon villain tier antagonist (usually a reference to the main character's childhood bully) that made even [[Ahriman]] look good, instantly gained many female party members because the main character was an unpopular virgin in their original world (and no males allowed, they are yucky), using their otaku knowledge to solve every problem that was deems unsolvable in the other world (more reason that their useless hobby/talent that was deemed useless has more use in the otherworld). The other world usually consist the cliches of JRPG world: [[Medieval Stasis]], fantasy creatures like dwarves and elves, old European like hierarchy and cultures, monsters, JRPG mechanic. One of many trend of isekai protagonist is that almost all of them have tragic background featuring how they were bullied in high school or parent suicide or some typical Japanese cliches of tragic (such as truck-kun). There are also many situations where authors would made the protagonist suffer by have him stuck in a misunderstood situation, setup by the unlikable villain as an attempt to make him look good. Then again, these kind of self fulfilling characters are authors self insert whom was a victim of a depressing citizens of their society, or they thought. There are a few exceptions to this such as Ainz Ooal Gown, Kazuma Satou or Kazuya Souma who are thrown into situations that requires far more intelligence, planning and Indy Polys than your typical light novel protagonist can muster. Some try to subvert this with mixed results. ''Re:Zero'' is a deconstructive take where its protagonist (Subaru Natsuki) dies painfully over and over and ''over'' again, and eventually confesses to everyone around him that he's completely useless. (Though then he starts learning from his mistakes and becomes more competent-- but '''not''' an uber-badass.)
**[[Tl;dr]], they are [[Cringe]] incarnate. It would have been funny if it wasn't so fucking ''pathetic'', and given the sheer amount of shitty isekai, harem trash plaguing the manga industry, it should ''really'' tell you the lack of self-esteem on whoever wrote these fucking abominations of literature.

*Drift from [[Transformers]] is a particularly fascinating and useful case study, as he not only is a good example of a Sue, but is also a prime example of how a Sue can be redeemed into a legitimately [[Awesome]] character. Beginning life as the original character of a newbie writer named Shane McCarthy, Drift was effectively [[FAIL|every stereotypical Mary Sue fan character trait in a single character]]; super-skilled beyond everyone else, a former member of the bad guys turned good, always right about everything, never allowed to lose, shilled by established characters and the creators, milking his “tragic” backstory for sympathy, characters who dislike him portrayed as close-minded jerks, [[Weeaboo|shallow anime-influences]] like dual-wielding katanas, and an all-around “[[Edgy]] teenager’s idea of cool” aesthetic. But then McCarthy left the series and Drift was handed off to a new writer, James Roberts, and everything changed; Drift was completely reworked as a character and made… ''likable''. Now he was skilled but not to an extreme, his personality was given more depth (most notably rewriting his shallow anime mimicry into a samurai-esque sense of honor and spirituality), he had true flaws and made mistakes he had to suffer or atone for, characters who disliked or disagreed with him were given legitimate reason for it, and even his “villain turned hero” backstory was deconstructed by repeatedly emphasizing that he still has a “bad guy” mentality/instinct he often fights against and which contributes to his aforementioned mistakes, such as being overly-quick to resort to violence or being willing to take part in an illegal conspiracy [[Tau|for the “greater good”]]. In short, he went from an embarrassingly juvenile fan character that everybody wanted dead to a beloved member of the cast who would make many future appearances because people legitimately liked him now. Even more impressively, when his original creator Shane McCarthy returned to the character years later, he demonstrated that he himself had improved significantly as a writer, actually acknowledging and building off the work other writers did with him where most Mary Sue authors would ignore or lash out at anything that undermined their Sue. It all goes to showcase the reason that the “Bad Writer Syndrome” mentioned on the main page exists; sometimes the only thing a Mary Sue needs to not be a Mary Sue is a new writer who isn’t as unhealthily emotionally-invested in the character and has the objectivity/common sense to see what they ''need'' to be rather then what their creator ''wanted'' them to be.

*Judging from the rest of the list, [[Skub|any character you don't like.]]

===Works with more than too many of them===
*[[In Nomine]]'s Superiors may or may not qualify; if they do, they do so as a block, thus placing them here. The problem here is that each Superior is an NPC made to more or less '''be''' their entire organization (''most'' PCs report directly to at least one of them), and thus needs to be larger-than-life. Ultra high-powered NPCs plus Strong Personalities plus Needing to Show Up Frequently is a formula only in need of a small amount Bad Writing or Poor GMing to go into hardcore Suedom. On the "possibly further from Suedom" side, all the Superiors have exploitable character flaws, but the result is still an edifying example of why High Powered NPCs are a problem.

*Sonichu, made by you-know-who. To make a long article short, just about anyone who is friends with the author or from some franchise <s>s/he/it</s> they like gets to be overwhelmingly hax and unbound by the laws of morality, everyone who isn't is pretty much either nonexistent or very very evil (the latter guaranteed for any character representing someone the author has a personal beef with).

*[[Twilight]]
**[[Derp|Bella Swan]]: Though she is a pretentious, manipulative, male-dependent, self-pitying downer who takes her parents for granted and makes no time for her friends, Bella is adored by all. Her first day of school is supposedly hard for her, despite the fact that every person she meets instantly presents her with a best friend badge and/or falls in love with her. She's also clumsy EXCEPT when there's a moment where she'll die if she does something clumsy. Add being a painfully obvious author surrogate and even being the product of one of the author's dreams (SMeyer admitted that herself), "clumsy" Bella is ''the'' Mary Sue of her generation.
**[[FAIL|Edward Cullen]]: This character is the reason the popularity of vampires took a massive hit when the book came out. Possibly the most rage-inspiring aspect is he introduced the idea that vampires [[What|SPARKLE HARMLESSLY LIKE DIAMONDS IN SUNLIGHT]]! He can read minds, is nearly impossible to kill, doesn't have the vampire weakness to holy objects despite seeing himself as an abomination against God, doesn't feed off humans despite his literal bloodlust (except for criminals or "those who deserve to die"), is always fashionable, owns exotic and expensive cars, and is ridiculously rich and multi-talented. Despite being a textbook case of an emotionally abusive and controlling boyfriend to Bella, he's always treated as having the moral high ground... except when he refuses to make Bella a vampire, but that gets swept under the rug as soon as he changes his mind.
**[[Anal circumference|Jacob Black]]: A Native American werewolf and the third side of the franchise's infamous love triangle. He commits sexual assault on Bella by forcing a kiss (a line not even Edward crossed), trolls the vampires and switches sides between the werewolves and the vampires without consequence. The worst part is when he [[FATAL|falls in love with Bella's and Edward's newborn daughter because of some kind of weird werewolf pheromone thing, practicing wife husbandry on her as soon as she can walk and talk... and all the other characters are fine with this]]. The story also gushes about his looks to the point that the movie doesn't go five minutes without the character taking off his shirt and the camera focusing on his muscles.

*Warhammer unfortunately has several examples, many of them a result of Matt Ward's bad writing. They get much better in the hands of more skilled writers, or in [[If the Emperor had a Text-to-Speech Device|parodies]].
**[[Cato Sicarius]]. Seriously this guy is Mary Sue's Mary Sue. He was born to a noble house on Talassar, trained with a sword as soon as he could hold one, and was inducted into the Ultramarines. He got commendation after commendation, going from sergeant to company champion to Captain of the 2nd Company in several decades. He refined lightning assaults to near perfection and knows what to do after giving the battlefield only a quick glance. He leads a company of mini-Sues, each squad having a special title for some great feat, such as their Devastators having somehow destroyed a Titan and a tactical squad that hasn't taken a casualty in close to 100 years. He is not only captain of the 2nd Company but "Master of the Watch", "Knight Champion of Macragge", "Grand Duke of Talassar", and "High Suzerain of Ultramar". Seriously, those last two titles are [[pretend|completely made up]]. He's a complete dick, valuing glory for himself and his company over all else. He outright admits to his men that he didn't care about the planet Damnos when they were battling the Necrons over it (where he got his ass handed to him by a no-name Necron Lord). He also decided to appoint himself judge, jury, and executioner for Uriel Ventris when he broke from the Codex, even though they're the same rank and only the Chapter Master has the right to do stuff like that. Oh yeah that reminds me, to top it all off most of the chapter thinks he's next in line to be Chapter Master, instead of Captain Agemman of the first company, even though he's got much (see fuck-tons) more experience than Sicarius. Add all that to the Mary Sue-ness of being a Space Marine and being in the Ultramarines and it reaches critical levels.
*** More recent works have deconstructed and played with this: his glory-hound behaviour and massive ego have put his company at extreme risk multiple times, with his egotistical behaviour at Damnos contributing rather heavily to the thrashing the Second Company was handed by the Necrons; furthermore, he's been relegated to the effectively ceremonial role of Rowboat Girlyman's bodyguard while the Primarch in question attempts to unfuck the Imperium and train Cato to be less of a massive prick. On top of this, he's established to have some pretty severe PTSD after being lost in the Warp near the start of the Indomitus Crusade, which knocked a good deal of his former brashness out of him.
**[[Eldrad|Eldrad Ulthran]], and what's worse: he knows he is, and is a complete dick about it. Though he was recently imprisoned by his Craftworld for trying to help the Imperium and messing up Ynnead's ascension. He then joins the Ynnari after being shunned by his Craftworld.
**[[Kaldor Draigo]]. Wrote his mentor's name into Mortarion's heart without contracting Spess AIDS, or being fucking destroyed by said Primarch which despite each of those 19 (21?) being capable of rolling through a squad of Custodes without too much effort. Then he got schllupped into the Warp and somehow remains pure.
***Like Sicarius, other authors have taken steps to reduce the Sue factor of Draigo by showing him as a moderately flawed character and retconning some of the more egregiously Sue-ish moments - see the 'Placed in the hands of other authors' section of his page for examples of this.
**[[Marneus Calgar]], especially post-Ward. Killing an Avatar of Khaine by punching its chest in and not getting seriously hurt in said fight with one. An Avatar of Khaine is supposed to be as hard to kill as a Bloodthirster, something that takes a Primarch or a Bio-Titan to beat in a one-on-one fight (then again, Games Workshop loves [[Worf|worfing]] Avatars, and Space Marines are their Creator's Pet). Calgar had his limbs chopped off by the Swarmlord, which didn't kill him due to Plot Armor, and he leads the Ultramarines, themselves considered a Mary Sue chapter in a Mary Sue faction (see the Space Marine entry on this page). These are just the first few examples.
**[[Captain Matthias Ward]], I am the better Mary-Sue.
**The [[Primarch]]s <s>and their [[Warhammer High|daughters]].</s>{{BLAM|'''THOSE WORDS ARE BLASPHEMY! /tg/ can only create perfection!'''}} (To be fair, the daughters are only Sues in that they inherited their Sue traits from their fathers.)
**[[Uriel Ventris]] - despite initially coming off as a subversion of Wardian Ultramarines-are-the-best Mary Sue bullshit, he quickly devolves into [[Skub|Ultramarines are the worst unless they use the Codex to wipe their asses and act like Space Wolves]] - which is pretty much limited to - guess who? - McNeill's OC-Do-Not-Steal Special Snowflake Ventris.
** [[Iskandar Khayon]] is a pretty awesome villain, but some of the stuff he does is just unbelievable, though some of that may be because his book is actually him telling the events to his enemies while captured, so he may be lying about a lot of it to fuck with them.

*World of Warcraft:
**Kalecgos (AKA Kalec), blue dragon who can disguise himself as a human-elf hybrid; from [[World of Warcraft|World of Warcrabs]]. Ham-fistedly inserted into the Blood Elves' redemption story arc as an enabler. Later he takes over the blue dragonflight even though he's not the oldest, wisest or most powerful blue dragon, but simply because he was the only surviving named blue dragon with anything approaching a personality. Later he hooks up with Jaina Proudmoore, a powerful human mage/noblewoman/faction leader introduced in Warcraft III. She does this in spite of their vast age difference (which made her reject an Elven prince who loved her) and bad track record with lovers. Though Kalecgos later disbanded them as an organization, he's still the go-to blue dragon (despite older, more powerful ones like Azuregos and Senegos still being in the lore).
**Jarod Shadowsong, a Night Elf commander shoehorned into the setting in books "War of the Ancients" and "Wolfheart", by Richard Knaak. Brother to canon character Maiev Shadowsong, love interest to Shandris Feathermoon, - Tyrande's adopted daughter with both characters canon since WC3 (Shandris in case you don't recognize her, is that one Elf archer with a unique model present in the first two and last Night Elf missions in ''Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos'') - and the Night Elves greatest war hero after Furion and Tyrande themselves. His mere presence raises morale so much that people, to quote the book, "automatically fight harder and obey him with greater swiftness". He survived a one-on-one fight against Archimonde, a demon lord who can destroy cities single-handedly, because he suddenly decided to toy with Jarod even though time was of the essence. Said war saw various Night Elf DEMIGODS place themselves under Jarod's command! He also lacks any personality beyond humble hero and has no character flaws that effect him negatively. He spends thousands of years after the first fight against the Burning Legion resting on his laurels and doesn't show up when they invade the second time, but no-one calls Jarod out on this in-universe. On top of this, Shandris' love for him is poorly written and makes no sense. Her feelings were puppy love, and after that, Shandris had had no contact with Jarod for ''thousands of years'' until they met again during the Cataclysm. And when they met, Shandris propositioned Jarod '''at his wife's funeral'''. This bears repeating; Shandris pursued someone who she hadn't spoken to for millennia and who was married to someone else by trying to hook up him before his wife's body was even cold (and Shandris is not that kind of ignorant/thoughtless/crazy/predatory person).
**Krasus (AKA Korialstraz) a high-ranking red dragon, mainly due to the author's overuse of him, and said author is also Richard Knaak. He disguises himself as an elf, and said elf is one of the leaders of the Kirin Tor. On top of this, he's Consort/Adviser of the Dragon Queen, he might as well be the Dragon King considering how much importance Alexstraza puts on him and how few decisions she makes until after he's gone. He also gets sent back in time to partake of a historical event despite the fact HIS YOUNGER SELF WAS AROUND IN THAT TIME. He also set up another Mary Sue in Warcraft, Rhonin (NOTE; both characters were created by the same author). To be fair, Krasus is tame compared to most WoW examples listed here.
**Med'an, half human, one quarter draenei and one quarter orc. This alone should set your alarm on. Let's add that he is the son of Garona and Medivh, two quite important lore characters, with the latter being one of the most powerful mortals EVER. Not enough? He is the focus of a prophecy about who will save he world and, thanks to his mixed ancestry, he is skilled in arcane magic (ok, this quite makes sense), but also with the holy light and elements. And, obviously, he saves the world and gains his father's awesome staff and charge.
**Rhonin, human archmage of the Kirin Tor. By Richard Knaak again, Blizzard Entertainment's equivalent of [[Robin Cruddace|Robin Cruddace]]. Knaak made up a new member of the famous Windrunner family just for Rhonin to hook up with. They have half-elf kids who are blessed by dragons despite the fact they've done nothing to earn it (the player characters have done more, but they don't get anything like that; just a few trinkets that will be rendered obsolete by the next expansion), not to mention that those half-elf kids are one of the very rare examples of human-elf hybrids in WoW (the other is Arator the Redeemer, son of legendary characters all the way back in Warcraft 2 - human paladin Turalyon and elven general Alleria). Even the name Rhonin is just the title "Rōnin" (referring to a Samurai with no master during Japan's feudal period) with a few changes to anglicize the name (and, of course, the character doesn't even look Japanese). He gets sent back in time to partake in the first fight against the Burning Legion for no other reason than Knaak wanted Rhonin to be there. He does practically nothing in the game, yet everyone says he's a great hero; even then, he didn't do half the things they praise him for.
**Sylvanas Windrunner from [[World of Warcraft]] (The trend is now a bullet train into Edgytown): Started out as a Fantasy counterpart for Sarah Kerrigan, she's been turning into Fantasy Hitler/Mengele (or rather, was from the beginning). Originally a High Elf ranger in Warcraft III who is killed and turned into a Banshee by Arthas. She sets up the Undercity as a fortress/Horde-run concentration camp for Alliance captives, and has free reign of atrocities ranging from slavery to genocide. Her Royal Apothecary kidnapped innocents to experiment upon under her watch, torturing them for fun and science. While this upset some players, it's not a guarantee of Mary Sue'dom, but the problem becomes obvious as the plot advances. She was already under suspicion before the Wrathgate Incident (she knew about the plague, but not that it would be used on the Horde too), invaded Gilneas, nuked Southshore, waged a torture-filled genocidal campaign on the Humans, manipulated the Horde (and only joined them for selfish gain), built a Cult of Personality around herself, employed the Val'kyr (which even the Death Knights called her out on), resurrected those who she killed against their will despite not liking when it happened to her, shot and killed Liam Greymane then taunted his father Genn about it, attempted to steal the Scythe of Elune to enslave the Worgen to expand her personal army and made a deal with the devil to get the Val'kyr in the first place. The closest she got to any kind of punishment was Lor'thermar threatening to kill her if she raised the Horde's dead as Forsaken, stating he'd leave her to the Alliance if she tried it on their dead and calling her out on several of her actions in Mists of Pandaria - rather weaksauce given the almighty kicking they were giving Garrosh throughout that expansion pack, making him out to be evil incarnate. In Legion, after retreating from the Broken Shore, the crowning moment of Mary Suedom occurs when she ends up being named the next Warchief of the Horde with Vol'jin's dying words, followed by her abandoning the fight against the Burning Legion for a way to cheat death, and everyone in the Horde is okay with this. In the next expansion, the Horde forced the Night Elves out of Kalimdor in the War of Thorns, with Sylvanas pulling an Arthas by forcing the dying commander to watch her burn Teldrassil, an action worse than Garrosh's Bombing of Theramore because Theramore was a military target while the Night Elves had surrendered and Teldrassil was inhabited only by non-combatants. The writers give her plot armor by having "never forsake honor" Saurfang save her life by dealing a dishonorable blow to her opponent. As Sylvanas' atrocities grow barely anyone from the Horde turns against her, and writers pull new powers out of their asses for her culminating in her one-shotting Saurfang and soloing Lich King Bolvar and a horde of undead. The Mary Sue reason on top of all this? She never suffers any ''(literally, ANY)'' setback except Greymane ruining her Val'kyr agenda. All her atrocities and horrors are ignored or turned into heroism, and what's worse, she automatically pulls out the next phase of her agenda out of her ass like some Pentagon's high command after snorting a line of coke each. Her Forsaken, despite horrendous losses and ban on raising unwilling dead, somehow destroys everything with a shred of goodness around her...only for her to get raised to Warchief status like some spoiled prepubescent princess. This issue is compounded by the fact that Sylvanas has a very vocal fanbase and she's the Creator's Pet of at least three of Warcraft's dev team, lead quest writer David Kosak, director Steve Danuser and developer Travis Day (who once insisted [[Skub|she's not evil and just wants to protect the Horde]]). Even with the Shadowlands expansion having Sylvanas as a major villain helping the BBEG, they pull back by shoehorning in a "split soul" plot device to pave the way for her redemption.
**Thrall, the (in)famous Orc Warchief from ''[[Warcraft]]''. Started out cool in WC3 as an Orc orphan raised in a human internment camp who escaped with help from a friend, he led the Orcs because he was the former Warchief's son and a powerful but not story-breaking shaman. By having his forces fight alongside the trolls and Tauren and save them from their enemies he made allies. Though he fucked up by sending Grommash to collect resources from Ashenvale (antagonizing the Night Elves, giving the demons an opportunity to corrupt the Orcs and leading to the death of a demigod who would've been a great help against the Burning Legion), with a lot of help from some allies and another demi-god he sets things right and they kick the Burning Legion's demonic asses off of Azeroth. He still holds the line against threats and tries to make peace, but he's a bit too forgiving of trouble-makers in the Horde (see Sylvanas above and Garrosh below). In the Cataclysm expansion for World of Warcramps, he became Azeroth's premiere shaman and leader of half the world while appointing the <s>[[Skub|VERY CONTROVERSIAL]]</s> <s>balls to the wall violent and universally hated</s> patriotic warmonger Garrosh Hellscream as Warchief of the Horde; despite the protests of several others ''including Garrosh himself'' (who was uncertain he could handle the responsibility of such a role at the time). Takes over as Aspect of Earth from a borderline demigod, and even deals a crippling blow to him when he's empowered by the Old Gods. Even people that were fans of Thrall during Warcraft III have started to get sick of him.
*** The writers appear to have realized what kind of monster they unleashed in Cataclysm and every expansion since has given him a kicking in some way. In Mists of Pandaria Garrosh kicks his ass just before his final fight with the players. In Warlords of Draenor he gets relegated to the sidelines and has [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHwiEbXqh3k another fight with Garrosh], which features a memetastic sequence in which Garrosh pummels his dumb ass while listing his failures. He wins the fight only by cheating and using his shaman powers, and Legion (the expansion) reveals the Elemental Spirits have nerfed him for his blatant haxxing. Even when he begins getting his powers back, you only see that happen if you're a shaman, and he ends up becoming your bitch. Even his big fancy Doomhammer gets misplaced so it can become an Artifact weapon for Enhancement shamans.

*Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" had the most Mary Sues before the phrase existed. In fact her garbage is old enough that the term Mary Sue could be replaced by the name of any one of her characters and it wouldn't change the meaning at all. John Galt<ref>"Eventually, the question you ask stops being 'Who is John Galt?' and becomes 'When will John Galt shut up?'", to quote one common criticism of Galt's famous 56 page speech.</ref>, Dagny Taggart and most of the cast, which figures given her literature's reputation for being barely-disguised political sermon. Galt frequently has the narrative grind to a halt in order to focus on his inane views, somehow single-handedly grinds the economy to a halt by founding a libertarian utopia where no "communists" can hold him or other similar geniuses back, and is shilled as the only sane man after the rest of the world becomes a dystopic hellhole without said "genius". Then there's the primary female character, a wannabe railroad tycoon trying to get a new train line built despite the fact that "evil socialists" can't keep them running without crashing every few hours because of mean ol' unions and regulations oppressing the poor upper class. Said woman somehow manages to bed Hank Rearden, local inventor of a metal alloy supposedly even stronger than steel called Rearden Metal. Yes, just drips with creativity, don't it? It's telling that the Bioshock series, based off her work, is far better received and a more realistic depiction, generally due to taking the prospect of a single man basically playing God to its logical conclusion (I.E. another dystopia but now with blackjack and hookers).
**Nearly all of her works have blatant Mary Sues in them. Best not to bother with a full list because her tree wasting dysentery would take up over half the page. It explains a lot about her psyche that her ideal man was a serial murderer who kidnapped, raped and dismembered young girls.

==Mary Sue Races==
While not every member of a race is a Mary Sue, [[Chakat|with one or two exceptions]], sometimes whole races are considered Mary Sues because they have huge amounts of plot armor and are idealized beyond reason. They were put here as the Mary Sue list was originally conceived for characters. Also, please list them in alphabetical order.

* Although some might find this as [[Skub|arguable]], the characteristics describing the Asari race in [[Bioware|Mass Effect]] are blatantly Mary-Sue. Although not every Asari is a Mary Sue (though some are), when it comes to the general race as a whole, oh boy does their 'Sueness' reach Chakat levels. Examples on what makes them a Mary Sue includes having the second longest lifespan behind the Krogan (over 1000 years, plus they lack the Krogan's violent nature which can easily waste their long lifespans), all of them are biotic users, every one in the game is intelligent, founders of the council, considered sexy by many other species despite being a monogendered species (even Salarians, who lack a sex drive and mate out of necessity, are shown to be attracted to them), and are deliberately oversexualised by the developers so they can be [[Rule 34|Rule 34'ed to death]]. Their race as a whole is portrayed as peace-loving hippies, the best diplomats, the most respected species in the galaxy as well as having a serious case of "Holier/Morally Superior then thou" attitude. Their ship the "Destiny Ascension" is the largest and most powerful ship in the Citadel fleet and their ships perversely resemble a lady's privates because you know they all look like "wominz". Thessia, their homeworld, is regarded as the "jewel" of the galaxy (instead of the fucking Citadel) as well as having the largest amount of Eezo which partially explains how their entire race is biotics. Any asari can 'Read' most people's minds and inner-thoughts with near complete-accuracy, though only if that person agrees to it (they can literally mindfuck you). Furthermore with their way of reproduction, since they are monogendered (Meaning they're all female) a lot of newcomers in Mass Effect start to scratch their heads on how they manage to get each other pregnant without any physical evidence of having a dick (Although one of the hypothesis is that they might actually screw around with the local fauna AKA Bestiality). However the fluff states this as Parthenogenesis, for those that don't know what it is, think of them as chickens....which is actually hilarious if you seriously put the comparison in context. Another odd thing about their reproduction is that somehow the Asari have the capability of getting pregnant from just about '''''Anyone'''''. [[Chakat|Do those traits sound fucking familiar to you?]] So all in all, not only are they a holy (unholy?) fusion of a smurf, elf and a monster girl, but they also commit in sweaty Lesbian/Bestiality/Xenoality orgies with almost everyone, turning the Asari race into nothing more then a giant Whorehouse for Aliens and Humans to fap in a hundred dozen ways and yet they are still ''okay'' with that....<s>Slaneesh approve of this!</s> {{BLAM|'''''BLAM! BLAM! DOUBLE HERESY!'''''}} But to be fair, at least Asari aren't [[Avatar|furries]] or physical [[Chakat|hermaphrodites]].
** Amusingly enough, the third game reveals that the only reason Asari are so much more advanced than the other races is because the Protheans (the super-advanced precursor race) were deliberately manipulating them and sneaking tech to them in their ancient history in order to give them a boost (such as genetically engineering them to be a race of skilled biotics and [[STC|leaving instruction manuals on how to create all sorts of advanced technology and deal with the other races in their "beacons"]]). The hope was that if they were given enough a headstart, the Asari would be able to unite and lead the other races to victory against the Reapers (in other words, they were deliberately ''trying'' to make the Asari Mary Sues in order to give the next cycle an advantage over the Reapers). Instead the Asari government kept that knowledge to themselves and used it to make their race the most powerful in the galaxy. When the Reapers showed up, the Asari leadership buried their heads in the sand on their homeworld like the smurf elf pussies they are, leaving the other races to fend for themselves, then promptly got their asses kicked by the Reapers (Which they probably deserved it for being such [[Eldar|self-righteous and selfish cockbags]]). Perhaps one of the few instances of a Mary Sue being both invoked and subverted. And then humanity steps up and saves the day, because [[Humanity Fuck Yeah|of course we do]].

*[[Angry Marines]]. When was the last time YOU heard of an Angry Marine LOSING? Thought no-{{BLAM}}
{{BLAM|+The current author has been executed by the Inquisition to prevent the total destruction of the Imperium of Man by Angry Marines. Thank you and have a nice day.+}}

* The Draka, once human, then Posthuman slaver empire from the Domination Series by S.M Stirling, collapsing the "Bullying, slaving, torture-happy, heartless Karma Houdini asshole who is the channelized catharsis of the author rather than genuine art." shtick into a black hole the size of the galaxy. South African British colony turns into a nation of literal "[[Drow]] in human skin" when due to (mis)fortune, every losing side from worldwide wars against tyranny gets exiled to Drakia, the British colony named after Francis Drake. Turning chattel slavery into a race-wide, airtight regulated franchise in the case of blacks, they exploit entire Africa by taking the colonies belonging to the enemies of British people. Unifying in a Spartan way of life, completely shedding any morality in the case of slave control, eventually Draka Dominion declares independence from the British Crown, and turns entire Africa into a mega plantation with industrial giants enticed by obscene gold&diamond handouts exploited from Africa. The Draka then adopt Nietzschean ideals, and declare every non-Draka a slave, or a potential slave. Somehow the First World War happens anyway despite massive divergences, and Draka overrun the dying Ottoman Empire, local Turks, after a brief "enserfment" finding great joy in new and better slave soldier living standards ([[/pol/|being able to rape young white captive Finnish boys seems a source of joy for a moustached swarthy Turk]] [[FAIL|whose name and appearance IRL was one of the last good politicians in Turkey]].). When the second World War starts ([[Wat|with a blond and one-eyed Hitler]]) the Draka start turning white people into slaves starting from Italy with approval of Hitler and employ black slave soldiers who are given ample living standards and items with free rape of anyone that is captured.
** This (Post-World War 2) is where the story turns from an [[Edgy]] /pol/-fanfic to pants-on-head retarded FAPfic. Though the series display a very detailed alternate history AND technological evolution (steamer cars phased out far later than combustion engine driven ones due to efficiency and lack of fuel corrosive-resistant metal research), the Draka's endless S&M laden plantation slave bitch fantasy hits overdrive and they simultaneously conquer Russia, Europe minus Britain, and the entirety of CHINA with black soldiers and their white masters that were, mind you, from an Africa that wasn't overpopulated but ecologically protected. They do not lose one, ONE battle while rampaging and raping and enslaving. Their methods are extremely savage: impalement and rape are regular actions at every resistance, and the black soldiers can take out any psychosis forming from mass atrocities on other slaves back home, every capture tortured until completely broken before being enslaved. Their research facilities have *zero* ethics, using up millions of humans in torturous experiments to develop fantastic drugs, bioweapons and medications since, well, their citizens are drilled from age 2 to 18 with a Nietzsche-on-crack ideology to circumvent a sudden case of conscience to heart. Eventually they change the Draka Citizen DNA to that of an immortal superhuman species, destroy the rest of non-Draka armies with [[/pol/|weaponized AIDS]] and make all slaves into docile abhumans and take over the rest of the world, rape all the women and men, destroy every monument and cultural heritage not belonging to them, turn the USA into a hunting reserve to hunt humans like animals (and eat them sometimes- AND make paintings, artworks and monuments ''celebrating'' the rape and slavery of non-Draka of all ethnicities). Then the Draka expand into alternate universes, infiltrating our world and its parallel versions and start taking them over as well and enjoying immortal, eternal exploitation of everyone everywhere forever. What the entire US and UK plus the rest of Asia, Japan, Southeast Asia does is to create an Alliance that walks on eggshells and fucks up every espionage action against the Draka, loses every battle and ends up escaping to Alpha Centauri. S.M Stirling eventually writes a sequel where an alternate Earth has the [[Humanity's_Last_Stand|human Alliance win for a change]], but the damage is already done. We are graced with the endless plantation BDSM fetish fantasy of bisexual, blonde, white, transhuman, constantly horny blue-eyed men and women fucking their farm slaves of either gender and make them work their asses off after breaking them in of every little inch of their personalities. A particularly nasty lesbian Draka is Stirling's Creator Pet: she manages to capture the sister of an American soldier who killed her lover and makes her a slave. She tortures her with a mental chip for years to destroy her brain, forcing her to bear her lover's clone children, and rapes her mentally, and eventually, physically. And her side wins the war, the girl escapes an old ruined wreck into space(albeit back to her brother), and our bitch spends her long, long life to torture and kill surviving Alliance holdouts for fun, happily raping, killing and torturing ever after. Seriously, even Kosak had more of a shred of decency, Stirling. The Draka's only saving grace is that every Draka must devote several hours of their time every day to be on top physical condition by ''law'' and always earn their place, as well as senseless slave abuse is seen as a character sickness.
*** And then, since only another suevilization can stop them at this point, they run into The Culture. The End. (well, we can dream, right?)
**** [[Rape|Or the Xeelee]].
***** Especially the Xeelee. We'd even settle for the Qax.

* The [[Drow]] from [[Drowtales]]. Their Mary Sue factor isn't even funny. Shaped by several inputs from several authors, their Drow are the best example of how too many cooks spoil the broth as well as the main author's high school misanthrophy hitting overdrive. The Drowtales' Drow are practically immortal, have regenerating limbs, never menstruate, possess metals that are impenetrable to other sentient beings and virtually twice as big and a thousand times as powerful as other races to the point of a few drow kids on an adventure can butcher a city with innocents to save their friend who was about to be killed for its blood, since humans, hunted and enslaved for centuries, are desperate to the point of killing elves for their blood just to have an edge. Their houses in underworld have all the modern technology and some futuristic things to boot complete with giant walkers and submarines, modern machinery, PARTICLE RIFLES and magitech street lights, but somehow they need human and other races as slaves and this need is shown as just and necessary right at the beginning with the "good" faction's "surface raiders" murdering an entire village and taking women and children to slave markets because the poor widdle drow need slaves and "[[Wat|It's just their unique morality]]". And the way the webcomic shows them as tragic beings is the cherry on top: I didn't know it was so tragic and sad when the humans counterattack to save their raided relatives from your homes, locked in to be sold as slaves.

* ALL [[Chakat|Chakats!]] The entire fucking race are distilled and purified Mary Sues, sometimes warping stories they are barely even mentioned in. Not just [[monstergirls|feline-centaur]] [[/d/|dick-girls]](Sick Fucks), they're also each master psionicists with faster-than-light mind-reading, able to cure deep neurotic complexes with a good deep dickin', strongest and most stable form of 'Taurs', considered as the most "beautiful thing in the universe" despite looking exactly like lions with the fact that they have dicks, morally perfect to the extreme, nobody technically hates them, their breast milk can turn the most feeble human into mini-Arnold Schwarzeneggers and every non-Chakats seem to have a unnatural and unhealthy lifestyle on trying to "Do it" with them, despite the fact that there are hundreds of ''other'' Catgirls outside of this furfag heresy, that are more attractive, cuter and prettier then them with the added benefit that they are actually female, [[HERESY|not hermaphrodite abominations]].

* [[Elf|Elves]] are often portrayed this way in fiction (Look above at Drowtales), though there are exceptions and it's becoming rarer for elves to be portrayed as Mary Sues. A lot of their sueness comes from how idealized they are. They're always beautiful, sometimes even without making an effort, either immortal or have very long lifespans and can only die from violence. They're often considered to have the moral high ground yet also be condescending to the younger races, but the elves contempt kept getting justified in some stories. Some have the natural ability to make anything beautiful from even the most base materials, naturally have great magical ability, and are often favored by their gods. However, there are evil elves in fiction and some elves who are morally good without being Mary Sues. Then there are curvy anime rapebait elves (often dark elves) who get high on male smells and secretions and turn into thicc fuckdolls taking massive amounts of dicking.
** This depiction usually comes from elves as shown in The Lord of the Rings, which is coincidental as it was the end of the Third age and all the bad elves had long since died off, leaving only the wise and good-hearted ones (like Galadriel). A read of The Silmarillion (the heroic First age where elves and magic were strong forces in the world and loads of [[Awesome]] shit happened) will prove quite pointedly that elves in this setting could be just as flawed, stubborn and downright immoral as humans could. Fëanor for instance. And how. He may have been gifted and intelligent even by the standards of elves, but he was also an obnoxious, arrogant kinslayer with a creepy attraction to his niece's golden hair, and he didn't give two shits about anybody else's concept of morality up to the Maiar themselves, he just insisted single-mindedly on getting his way until it got him pile-drivered to death by balrogs.
** Elves from Eragon are probably the worst example of Mary Sue elves yet. Elves from Eragon move so fast that humans are incapable of tracking their movements, stronger than humans to the point "even the weakest (elf) can easily overpower (a human)" (actual book quote), anything they make even from the most base materials is beautiful and they can run over a hundred miles an hour plus maintain that pace for hours on end. Character wise they're all atheists and vegetarians who are treated as morally and spiritually correct in all regards and there are just one or two evil elves in the story or the background lore. They can destroy entire human armies in minutes yet are somehow on the losing end of a war and have to hide in a forest on the edge of the map, are one of only two races on the planet capable of riding dragons, the other being humans (who literally turn into elves when they start riding the dragon plus elves were the first), are naturally connected to magic to such a level that an elven child can surpass an adult human who has spent their entire life studying magic and, apparently, were the second race in existence, only predated by dragons.

*[[Doctor Who|Whoverse Humanity]] takes this up to a 100 million in this case. Depending on the timeline, Humanity not only manage to become the dominant ruler of the multi-galaxy not once, but [[What|'''Five Fucking Times!''']] Without any indication on how they manage to conquer the Galaxy, thriving with hostile Aliens that could LOLStomp the Necrons, Eldar, Orks, Tau, Tyranid, Chaos in all it's forms and the Imperium ''combined''. Furthermore not only are they one of the [[Imperium of Man|most numerous species in the Universe,]] but also one of the most adaptable and longest lasting race, as seen when they are one of the [[Grimdark|few species still alive near the end of the fucking Universe.]] To give you an idea on how fucking ludicrous Humanity got within Doctor Who, in just 500 years from present day, Humanity was already a major force in the Galaxy ([[Star Trek|Compare this to most Sci-Fi timelines]] [[Bioware|where Humanity either just started to explore their surroundings]] [[Halo|or already establish a small and insignificant area]]), as well as having weapons that could make [[Strike Legion]] seem useless in comparison, and when you take note on how short the timeline distance is between the present day and the end of the Universe, it just makes you say to yourself....the Fuck? Compare this to say [[Star Wars]] in which they have the excuse of not knowing how long Humanity has been space traveling, or [[WH40K]] where the thousands of years gap of slow progress before the Warp Drive was invented seem much more plausible then this absurd scenario. You know Humanity is a Mary Sue when even the near-death of the Universe can't kill them off....until a certain Dues Ex Machina appeared. To be fair, they only gain their Sueness momentum when a certain Time Lord keep on foiling the plans of countless Aliens attempting to conquer and crush humanity in various stages in time; either that or because the Doctor has a unusually unhealthy Humanophile fetish. They are probably one of the few examples of a "Accidental Mary Sue", in which the Doctor, with his fancy Time gizmos and intellect, unintentionally guided Humanity to such power levels by either saving their asses from certain doom or altering the timeline so they won't fuck up, due to his love of Humans. Granted Whoverse Humanity is definitely far from morally perfect (A substantial amount of Whoverse villains are Humans and the multiple Human Empires itself are morally questionable at best. The Timelords themselves are hardly better than the Daleks at times.), the main point of contention is how influentially powerful they are for such a young race while at the same time, disregarding other more ancient and more powerful races (Silurian, Cybermen, Sontarian, Ice Warriors, etc) that should be the one having more galactic screen time and hegemony then them.
**In this case, Whoverse humanity's Mary Sueness can't really be blamed on any one author. It's mostly the result of sheer age causing increasingly severe continuity snarls and the unwillingness of newer writers to change or retcon forty year old fluff.

* Dwarves as seen in the Artemis Fowl series. While virtually all dwarven exploits described are performed by one Mulch Diggums, most of his Mary Sueness is excused as "dwarven racial talents." His saliva can harden into a glowing substance that's strong enough to resist high speed impacts, he can fart hurricanes and shit cannonballs, he can dig a self sealing tunnel through any earth-like substance as fast as a man can run, drink water with his pores, use said pores like suction cups if he's thirsty, hear better than a stethoscope, and has tremorsense to at least a hundred feet. Dwarves are also described as having access to the fairy magic (Common uses include instant healing, invisibility, and mid-grade mind control), but Mulch gave that up to steal things instead. This despite no readily apparent level adjustment, nor any mention of useful powers before those same powers are necessary, puts this race quite firmly in this category.

* LeShay are a race that appeared as a monster in the D&D 3th edition book [[Epic Level Handbook]] and have been completely forgotten about since then like most of what was in that book. They are described as being to elves what elves are to humans only more so. That sentence alone should immediately set off red flags. LeShay are extremely powerful immortals resembling albino elves who are survivors from a civilization that was erased from history. Whoever it was that came up with this race (some of us blame Raymond Feist, for the Valheru) may even have intended for them to be ''anti''-Sues, to foil the elves. As such the concept is defensible, but they probably would have ended up as Mary Sues if any bad writers had gotten a hold of them. Bad writers like Feist.

* The Mandalorians in the Star Wars Expanded Universe, depending on who's writing them. While good under the correct writers, under some of the bad ones (coughcoughKarenTravisscoughcough), they compete with badly written expanded universe Jedi and Sith for the position of Star Wars' Ultrasmurfs. In the pre-Disney expanded universe, ALL Mandos are elite warrior mercenaries, skilled enough to take out heavily armed enemies with their bare hands and usually packing enough firepower to level a building. They're so badass, in fact, that they're known to hunt Jedi for fucking sport because they're the only thing that'll give them a real challenge. Experienced Jedi hunters can be good enough to fight them head on despite all their Force powers and saber swinging because they have the right gear and experience to counter it. Bear in mind that Mandos do not use the Force in any way. Karen Traviss also writes them with the Mary Sue trait of always being right and people agreeing with them for things they call the Jedi out for that they didn't even do, like creating the clone army (one Jedi who wasn't acting on orders from the council requested that, under the manipulations of Palpatine, and it was him and the Senate who ordered the clones to fight), and generally makes them out to be the pinnacle of civilization despite being warmongers with a history of allying with the Sith and trying to conquer the galaxy themselves. One of the best things to come out of Disney buying Star Wars was the fact that the people in charge of the new canon scrapped pretty much all of Traviss' lore, whereupon she flounced off to go ruin the Halo EU and they got down to creating a more three-dimensional and complex society.
** The most famous Mandalorian, Boba Fett, generally avoids becoming this trope and is just a plain badass (as a bonus he rarely if ever engages in the dick-stroking egomania of Traviss's Mandies), but under bad writers his badassitude can push into this. His father Jango Fett follows this same idea; in fact his origin story partly involves his old merc group of Mandalorians getting slaughtered by a group of Jedi in a moment that reads sort of like "fuck you Karen Traviss". Sure, Jango kills six Jedi with his bare hands in that massacre, but the Jedi he killed were not decades old masters and he is (as an individual) supposed to be that good. The fact that he managed that made Palpatine choose him as the Clone Army template donor.
** And now we have the Mandalorian With No Name (until they ruined that joke by giving him one), who has some Sueish traits; he's an excellent bounty hunter and a skilled gunfighter who rarely loses a duel, he's good enough at diplomacy to negotiate with ''Tusken Raiders'', he has a near-full suit of rare and indestructible beskar armour, and pretty much everyone he meets takes a liking to him, even his enemies. That said, he also has a number of flaws: he was raised in an extremist splinter faction that is to normal Mando society what the [[Cult of the Redemption]] are to regular believers in the [[Imperial Creed]], doesn't always think through the consequences of his actions, is constantly hustling for jobs just to scrape by, and occasionally makes some serious mistakes. He also tends to be at a disadvantage in straight-up fights and has to rely on stealth, misdirection, and ambush tactics, rather than soloing entire stormtrooper platoons in the open with a dull knife like Traviss would undoubtedly have had him doing. He is also most definately '''not''' shown to be a match for Jedi, when got into a scuffle with Ahsoka Tano he lost very badly and only survived by letting her know he actually just needed her help with something, and when Luke Skywalker showed up at the end of the season he wasted a platoon of [[Terminator| Dark Troopers]] while our hero could barely handle one. All in all, he's pretty much the complete opposite of a Traviss Mando, and that is a good thing.

* [[Avatar|All Na'vi]], the blue-skinned eco-humping gobshites.
** Or are they? Without excessive human help (one of them warned the entire planet of what the space humans were capable of) they would have gone the way of countless human indigenous peoples...

* Smurfs. They're portrayed as a peace-loving, quasi-communist society who always come out on top in their primary conflict with an evil wizard family and are idealized to the point of ridiculousness. They're also friends with animals and never have to worry about being eaten even though they're the size of large mice. [[Skub|Then ''again'']], most of the other conflicts they encounter are usually due to one or more of their clan fucking something up in accordance with their [[Derp|singular personality trait]], and overall they seem collectively naive about things to the point of gullibility. Said approach is likely designed to promote the usual aesop of teamwork and the importance of family, so it could be far worse.

* [[Twilight|Vampires in a certain book series]]. Even though they were as gay as fuck (which damaged the reputation of actual vampires).
** [[Vampire]]s in general started falling in modern years due to their weaknesses being forgotten or ignored by untalented authors. They have often been portrayed by such writers as immortal monsters that are top-tier magic users, skilled at all martial arts and forms of killing, master scholars with libraries that would put Alexandria to shame, incredibly attractive and charismatic, and living in huge castles while commanding other monsters like they were their servants or slaves, making them the Elves of the monster world by that definition. Initially in novels like Bram Stoker's Dracula, vampires had notable weaknesses including regularly drinking the blood of many human victims to stay young and powerful, but later writers dropped this in favor of making vampires straight up immortal. Seriously, some writers even give them plot armor to get past their weaknesses of holy objects, divine power or sunlight (though the former usually depends on the author's attitude towards religion).
** [[Tremere|Clan Tremere]] (a.k.a. "Tremary Sues") from the ''[[Vampire: The Masquerade]]'' [[RPG|ttRPG game]] are an entire clan of Mary Sues as they were [[Mark Rein·Hagen|the author]]'s pet mages from his previous ''[[Ars Magica]]'' game. Tremary Sues enjoy the narrative absurdity of holding a near-monopoly on vampiric thaumaturgy, despite the fact that older vampiric clans had millennia to perfect thaumaturgy (and many other arts that can blow the Tremere out of the water) before the first Tremere was ever born.
** Probably one of the best exceptions of this is Count Orlock from the classic silent film ''Nosferatu''. Whereas nowadays vampires get the treatment of being oh-so-sexy, suave, charismatic, pitiable creatures whose lives suck despite being immortal, undead bloodsuckers, Orlok is just a hideous predatory monster out to drink blood. No charisma, no suave, nothing to pity, nothing to feel empathy for. In short, straight-ahead horror vampires done completely right.
** By contrast, the vampires of the House of Night series by mother and daughter team P. C. and Kristen Cast are far worse examples than even Twilight's bastardization. To clarify, vampires worship the goddess Nyx who is the only real goddess, are selected by a tracker when they are a human teen, are the poor, oppressed minorities of the world even though literally almost every famous person in human history was a vampire, will become utterly handsome and beautiful unless they reject the Change in which case they are afforded no sympathy as they die due to events outside their control, every negative stereotype is because of stupid humans, they can never do anything bad... in short, [[Fail|vampires done so badly that Twilight is more believable as good vampire literature]]. Seriously.
** Higher Vampires from [[The_Witcher|Witcher]] are as sueish as they get around here. Beside the point of being intellectually and spiritually superior to pretty much anybody (and we have immortal elves here), and relatively young ones fast and agile enough to go toe-to-toe with the best witchers that exist, they have NO weaknesses. Crosses, godly idols, other divine aspects? Nada. Drinking blood to live? Not even close, you can grab a <s>human</s>beer with some boys, but there's no neeed for it. Sunlight? Try again. Silver? NO. They are as much suspectible to silver like, say, humans are suspectible to paper swords. Cue in their "racial" power to become stronger and faster the older they get, shapeshifting, mistyfying (as in turning to mist) and unique superpowers, refined throught their lifetime, ranging from coming in handy once in a while better alchemy to [[wat|mind controlling entire kingdom's worth of lesser vampires as on-wish army]], with even that just being stated to be a "unique" power, not a really "powerful" one. The worst is when you realize they are not even "magical beings" by any degree, just a [[Urien_Rakarth|vaguely human-shaped collective of individual living cells just so happened to work together for the time being]], granting them mind-blowing regeneration - nothing, NOTHING, can kill higher vampire but another higher vampire, even if regenerating from a melted puddle of blood would take some decades, they will return. One would start to wonder why they did not steamroll through entire continent and make it their own, to stop hiding and openly search for a way to return to their home world - as almost all higher vampires see themselves superior to other races, and majority would not bat an eye for this [[/pol/|final solution]] - but this just adds to their sueness-good-for-the-sake-of-plot aspect.

* [[Doobies]] describe themselves this way. Aside from their crazed fans, it is obvious to everyone else that they aren't.

* Saiyans from Dragonball are practically born more powerful than any human could ever be, get exceptionally stronger every time they almost die (the words that are actually used to describe it), can literally become strong enough to eclipse actual gods with little effort and have more asspulls and deus ex machinas than any other race on this list. A twenty-three-year-old Saiyan can destroy an entire place with a single movement in the anime, and the manga implies that a Saiyan can do it with a finger before the first manga even concludes.

*The Forerunners from Halo easily fit the bill of being Mary Sues. For one, the Forerunners were created by actual no holds barred Gods who could rewrite time and space with little to no effort. These Gods, known as the Precursors (real original), thought the Forerunners were such hot shit that they decided to make them the new gods of the universe before they moved onto the next one, despite the Forerunners having achieved nothing of note yet. But then the gods changed their minds and decided to make humanity the new gods of the universe. The Forerunners responded by turning on their guns and literally murdering actual gods with no effort. The remaining gods ran off in a panic and turned to dust, later degenerating into the Flood. Then the Forerunners pulled a bunch of crazy shit like building ships that could ROFLstomp everything in Warhammer with minimal effort and creating an AI so advanced it could simulate entire universes in microseconds. Then they somehow got wiped out by the Flood.
**The Forerunner's main enemy, the Flood, are similarly sueish, if not more so. While it is dubious if you can call the Flood a race or a single organism, it is undoubtedly completely OP, to the point of it being ridiculous. For one, they are quite literally the degenerate (ergo inferior) offspring of the Precursors, but they are somehow better than them in every way. They can infect time and space just by existing for long enough, are completely unbeatable, incurable, and can literally infect all life in the universe, including purely mechanical technology somehow, despite that not being how biology works. They are also capable of convincing AI that was programmed with the simple purpose of protecting all life from being infected by the Flood to join them by simply talking to them, can convince an entire group of human scientists to kill themselves just by saying a single sentence, and can never be defeated as 'they will always return'.

*[[All Tomorrows|The Qu]] from All Tomorrows are an egregious example of “Tell not Show” in this list, as they overpower the future humanity, [[what|even though they have technology capable of destroying star systems and many other things that could be beyond our imagination.]] It is never explained how they managed to defeat the Star People, nor why they would turn them into the fucked up abominations for the rest of the story. Well, they ''kind of'' say their philosophy is one about being gods, that other lifeforms are nothing but toys to play with, and humanity was unfortunately in their path. So for millions years, they turn most humans into twisted mockeries of their former selves, sometimes becoming literal toilets for the bloody things! So despite being an all-powerful race capable of modifying life to remove their sentience, they had the enlightened intelligence to create a race that [[/d/|communicates by literally shitting on each other.]]
**Can somewhat be considered averted in the end when it is said that they were defeated by a union of galaxies who had enough of their shit. This is handwaved even more poorly, with little explanation to how it happened or if the Qu were truly rendered extinct. For most of the book, [[rage|they get away with their literal crimes against humanity, and it’s implied that they’ve done it to more species than just us.]]

== Mary Suetopias ==

As mentioned in the main article, there are some cases of entire civilizations getting the "Mary Sue" label with some justice. Here are a few.

* The Draka, before they become a species, are usually held to be a fairly strong example of a Villian Suetopia. See above in Mary Sue Races for more.
* Anarchist habitats in [[Eclipse Phase]]. To quote TVTropes, they "are apparently flawless societies where robots and nanofabricators provide for everyone, crime is virtually non-existent due to surveillance sensors everywhere and well-armed populaces, and there's no shortage of spare bodies like there is in the Transitional Economies."
* Aldis, from [[Blue Rose]], has this accusation thrown at it, with some justification.
* The various civilizations of Ayn Rand's science fiction are either Mary Suetopias or Villain Suetopias. No inbetween.

* [[Ultramar]]. Need more be said?


There are some "special cases" (parodies, twists, and deconstructions), that are worth mentioning:

* Ursula K. LeGuin's "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" is... odd. Go read it if you want more, because it's ''very'' short. 
* Rapture and Columbia from the Bioshock series are "functionalist" Suetopias: Because the games are about killing lots and lots of dudes, you need to have those dudes be crazy or assholes or both. Rapture under Andrew Ryan could actually be interpreted as a criticism of Ayn Rand's Suetopias by showing how they will go wrong in a less ideal world, while Rapture after Sofia Lamb's takeover is an equally scathing deconstructive critique of collectivist Suetopias. Columbia, meanwhile, is a very obvious attack on ultranationalism, while also serving as a demonstration that even the so-called "good old days" often had negative aspects to them.
* The original "Utopia" by Thomas More is interesting, in that it somewhat parodies the concept before it existed. To provide two examples, "Utopia" is a pun on ''eutopia''-"good place", and ''outopia''-"no place", and the frame story narrator's name translates as "Peddler of Nonsense". Yes, this means that the man who literally coined the term Utopia immediately considered it wishful fantasy.
* Mordent, from [[Ravenloft]], has a somewhat interesting twist. Its Darklord focuses more on Ghosts than on the living, so the living aren't the focus of the horror, and as such, for Ravenloft, it's a relative Utopia ''for the living''. Once you die there, however...
* Kurt Vonnegut's "Harrison Bergeron" is widely interpreted as a parody of such works.
* The Federation of [[Star Trek]] seems like a Mary Suetopia on the surface. However because the show was initially focused on morality stories the "Insane Admiral" trope crops up every now and then, showing some leaks beneath the surface. In latter seasons of TNG and all Deep Space Nine those leaks become full blown cracks, with the Maquis and the consequences of the Dominion War. Captain Sisko even rants about this a few times during the show. Earth in Star Trek is practically a paradise compared to most other planets in the galaxy, and thus "It's easy to be a saint in paradise." With examples such as the Federation spy agency Section 31 engineering a virus to use on The Dominion's Founders (aka rulers) or Sisko himself collaborating with a former Cardassian spy/assassin to bring the Romulans into the war via a ''massive'' fraud.
** What some people forget is that the episodes from the perspective of the characters, take anywhere from hours to days and even longer during multi-episode storylines. Spending weeks to get the solution shown during the final ten minutes or exhausting all other options to take a random shot in the dark that solves the current problem. Usually without pulling it out of the writers collective asses or pressing the reset button.(Something that happened often enough on Voyager and Enterprise to an unrealistic degree that viewers started hating them.)
* Wakanda, from [[Marvel Comics]] wasn't this originally - it was just an African nation that avoided getting buttfucked during the Scramble for Africa and which had instituted a policy of sending its best and brightest abroad to learn at the most advanced foreign schools before returning to share what they learned with their people, thus keeping it well ahead of most other African nations and on par with the most civilized "first world" nations. They still had Vibranium as an ace up their sleeves, but they were more "America during the Atomic Energy race... if America had the world's only known supply of fissile material". It was subsequently retconned that the presence of Vibranium meant that Wakanda was centuries ahead of the world technologically and always had been. Different writers have applied differing levels of Sue-ishness to Wakanda on this basis, ranging from making them the typical "smug utopians" to presenting them as a technologically advanced nation that's still imperfect, having deep social and political problems like any other country. The Black Panther movie especially interrogated the premise of this nation's existence by pointing out that they stood by while atrocities happened all over the world, including to other black people, and they did nothing about it to protect their own hides. The short-lived "Ultimate Universe" took perhaps the biggest piss on the idea of Wakanda as the "Mary Suetopia" by replacing the "because Vibranium" background with "we reverse-engineered a crashed alien starship", and emphasizing that this didn't make them as powerful as they thought, as they ended up needing the Ultimates (Ultimate Marvel's Avengers) to save their asses when the aliens who lost that ship in the first place came knocking looking for their property.

* Alpha Complex, from [[Paranoia]]. Need more be said?


== Somewhat Special Cases of "Not Quite Sues" ==

There are a few situations where a character either (1) isn't really a Sue, even though the accusation gets pointed at them often, (2) is sufficiently clearly a parody or deconstruction that they don't count for the main list<ref>On the theory that both are technically attacks of Sue-style characters, which moves them into a strange twilight zone of classification.</ref>, or (3) aren't in any way Sues, but are needed to give some context to something above. This section is for these special cases. Note that '''characters who veer in or out of Suedom depending on the author or episode go on the main list, as do Sues who audiences actually like''' (such as Darkseid or Squirrel Girl).

* The Crimson King from Stephen King's Dark Tower series. He's talked up as a big threat, and his plan legitimately threatens the universe; but when confronted, he turns out be a paper tiger, whose chief power was getting so many people and monsters working on one page on his plan to destroy the world, and was otherwise actually rather mediocre compared to them. Given the heavy theme of '''disappointment''' in both the series as a whole and the last book of it in particular, this sorta worked on a meta level, but was very, well, disappointing. (For the main reason he's included here, see Darkseid above; the contrast between these two [[BBEG]]s gives you a good idea of why a paper tiger BBEG is often felt to be a problem.)

* Griffith, from [[Berserk]], seems a Mary Sue on the surface: he leads the efforts to save Midland and defeat the Kushan invaders while everything goes his way and everyone praises him... but then you remember that he's also a member of the Godhand who's got reality-warping powers handed to him in a handbasket and uses them to manipulate everything and everyone around him to his advantage. Basically, Griffith hacked the game and then began playing on the lowest difficulty, while setting it to Ultra-Nightmare for everyone else. If anything, Griffith is all the common jokes people make about a Mary Sue deconstructed, showing how utterly awful and soulless such a person would actually be. On the other hand, one of his former Warband member, Rickert, saw through his bullshit and bitch slapped him for it even though he wasn't there when Griffith betrayed his comrade. So not everyone is falling for Griffith.
** That being said, these facts don't change the following: He is portrayed as a tactical genius, yet during all his battles he is using absolutely retarded tactics, but all of them still work, because his high-ranking enemies turn out to be just a bunch of bumbling idiots. Can't push "time manipulation" excuse on this, they are just stupid; He's lost only two times and didn't die the first time, because Zodd had a plan for him and the second time, because Guts didn't want to kill him; The lowest point in his life i.e. a year of torture in the end led him into becoming a member of Godhand and then getting resurrected as "Griffith, but cooler", read "even when he fails, he doesn't"; The only time he had a formidable foe after this, he beat him with a single blow, while everyone else could barely stand against him; The second time he faces same formidable foe, he just bullshits his way out of that fight and creates his promised kingdom out of it. It's like if Superman blew up Darkseid with one punch (that was not even his) and created Paradise planet from his corpse; Despite sacrificing men who sworn to protect him and raping Casca just to get back at Guts, he didn't have any moral downfal afterwards, his character hasn't changed any single bit and everyone, except his ex-buddies (if they wouldn't, that would be too stupid), adore him, even if they know what he's done; Also, Godhand treats him like a messiah and people consider him Flaming Falcon i.e. he is also a chosen one.

* Jonathan, from the Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode "Superstar", provides a pretty good case study of the in-universe Mary Sue.

*Joeseph Joestar, though he does have some sueish traits such as being a super-genius who can trick anyone and knows exactly what people are going to say before they say it, alongside having the appearance of a Greek god, is very much not a Sue when you actually get down to it. He is extremely flawed, to the point of being weaker than all of his allies in part two and part three, both physically and stand/hamon wise, is very obviously outclassed by the villains of both respective arcs (Dio being able to easily beat him without even touching him, and Kars being a literal god by the end) and does extremely scummy things, such as cheating on his wife with a Japanese woman, who's race he supposedly hates. His grandson, Jotaro Kujo, on the other hand...

*Momonga/Ainz Ool Gown from Overlord boarders on Mary-Sueish and is the protagonist of an [[Isekai]] work, but is also a decent deconstruction of Invincible Villain Sues at the same time. He is transported to a fantasy world as his [[Lich]] MMO avatar, along with his Guild Hall and all its NPCs, now alive. He's still a no-life (literally) Japanese salary man, but finds he has lost his humanity and feelings, all the better to pretend to be (and eventually become) the overlord his adoring minions expect. These expectations pressure him to conquer the world with his gamer skills, system knowledge and corporate experience, min-maxing his way to success whilst bullshitting people that he's an evil mastermind. He still has many advantages however in resources, magic and diplomacy (substituting sales pitches for evil monologues, surprisingly easy) compared to all other characters so far. This results in him single-handedly winning wars, having an Empire become a vassal state almost by accident, and annexing a whole town from a neighbouring kingdom to rule over (Word of god is that no other YGGDRASIL players will appear). Being by many definitions OP, the story's drama arises from him not having complete control and knowledge of his minions' actions.
** Though fanatically loyal, they are constantly guessing his true intentions to try and impress him, misinterpreting his commands, and in some cases outright deceiving him. Two such examples are Ainz's advisor Albedo plotting behind his back to kill other Supreme Beings that he wants alive and unharmed, and Demiurge harvesting human captives to make magical items for their use (Demiurge himself considers humans "animals" and refers to them as such, hence Ainz has never found out). Both are in part because of Ainz's actions, and in any case, he has ordered and done equally terrible things himself.
** While most of Ainz's female guardians lust after him, even this is deconstructed. Albedo's a [[succubus]], so lust is par the course, and full-force [[/a/|yandere]] for Ainz because he altered her code in YGGDRASIL to change her from " a slut" to "in love with Momonga" as a joke. Shalltear wants Ainz because he's a walking skeleton and she's a necrophile (she's not to Ainz' taste being a loli vampire; furthermore, she holds her absent YGGDRASIL creator in higher esteem than Ainz), while Aura keeps a lid on her crush (she's a flat-chested teenage elf and wary of jealous reprisals from Albedo and Shalltear). Ultimately, the fact that Ainz is a walking skeleton means he's unable to fulfil their desires or consummate his own.
**TL:DR: Ainz's skills as a salary man and a competitive gamer don't translate well to politics or world conquest. Without his own gamebreaking powers, his almost as powerful loyal NPCs, his permanent poker face (well, poker skull) and a dose of incompetence from some of the enemy commanders, Ainz's plans wouldn't have worked nearly as well.
** To give one an idea of just how lousy Ainz is as an actual ''leader'', in an official list made by the author of the best leaders in the series, [[Lulz|Ainz is close to ''dead last'']].

* The Monkey King, from [[Mythology|Journey To The West]], if one assumes he isn't a religious figure and thus safe to include in this list, is interesting in that while he's very close to being a Mary Sue, several factors drag him away from the classification:
*#He's charged with protecting an unworldly monk, along with a horse (actually a shapeshifted dragon, which even the author seems to forget about), a borderline nonentity, and a pig-headed idiot (in both senses of the term, since he's a pig-demon who often lets his selfishness screw the group over). Rescuing them is most of what he does in the main body of the story.
*# He's repeatedly shown as being outwitted by the Buddha and Guanyin, and is outright curbstomped in combat by some of the many demons they encounter along the journey. While Wukong usually wins in the end, he rarely wins with no setbacks at all (whether that's physical injury, emotional turmoil and angst, or his friends getting kidnapped again) - contrasting heavily with a typical Mary Sue's victories being all but handed to them.
*#On a related note, he doesn't win everything and anything by himself: for example, during the contest with the Three Immortals, the last task (sitting on top of a pillar for days on end without moving) has to be undertaken by Tripitaka (the monk) specifically because Monkey's impulsive ways and lack of patience render him unsuitable for it; much earlier, he's rendered temporarily blind and has to rely completely on an otherwise neutral Bodhisattva to fight for him when faced with a demon he can't outsmart or outfight. This contrasts heavily with the omni-competence displayed by many Mary Sue characters.
*#He's pretty heavily flawed as a character, being impatient, reckless, childish, and frequently hot-headed - all of which have actual consequences for the Monkey King (ex.: rashly accepting Buddha's 'jump out of the palm of my hand' challenge, which gets him stuck under a mountain for several centuries; killing a demon disguised as an innocent woman without explaining himself first gets him kicked out of the party by his pacifistic boss; bumrushing a powerful demon nearly gets him killed by the True Fire of Samadhi, forcing him to go to Guanyin for help), with a good portion of the story involving him undergoing character development and overcoming these flaws as opposed to starting out as the pinnacle of morality with zero flaws whatsoever.
*#If one cares to dip into a religious reading, one can see in his introduction the clear Buddhist message "No matter how awesome you are, you are still trapped in the machinations of Desire and Karma"; alternately, if you don't care for religion, there's also the message "make enough of a nuisance of yourself, and your enemies will eventually slap you down even if it means X" (in the case of the Monkey King, swallowing their pride and asking help from somebody they dislike).
**TL;DR: Sun Wukong can be viewed as a deconstruction of certain kinds of Mary Sues, before the idea of a "Mary Sue" was even created.

* [[The Raven Queen]] is a fairly good example of why "Mary Sue" accusations, unless taken from a Author-Centered or Functional perspective, are somewhat useless. TRQ hits many Mary Sue buttons, and thus is sometimes accused of being a Sue. ''HOWEVER,'':
** She's never the protagonist, and when she does appear, she's treated the same as any of the other deities in 4e. Accusations of Functional Suedom thus sort of fall flat.
** While she may hit some Authorial-Centered (or Doylist) definitions of the term, it's probably more appropriate to compare her to just about any other non-monster female character in 4th Edition D&D in this context--while she is obviously designed to attract those who are attracted to a certain kind of woman, so are all the other non-monster females (to quote a famous demotivator, "RPG Artwork: Let's face it, a lot of it is porn. (Pretty odd porn, too)."). 
** She is no longer an example at all due to her backstory being completely rewritten in 5th edition to make her fit in with the setting better. She is no longer even a god since her attempt to become one was sabotaged, turning her into a phantom with a craving for knowledge and memories.

* Saitama from One-Punch Man. As the title indicates, he's able to defeat just about any opponent with one punch (with a few exceptions that require two or, rarely, three). While this makes him stronger than most of the "S-Class heroes" (the highest rank in the Hero Association), at the start of the series Saitama's personal life royally sucked: he had to pinch pennies to eat, had no knowledge of the Hero Association until he was notified by others of its existence, and his sheer strength means that his fights are inevitably painfully one-sided and boring for him. Even the arc villains who force him to use his Serious Series techniques will leave him bored, and since nobody knew who he was until recently, credit for his work went to other people. Capping it all off, the superhero name he was given by the association is [[Lulz|"Caped Baldy"]].
** Just to be clear, the main reason why he's not actually a Sue has to do with the main focus of the series: that Saitama gets no satisfaction from his lopsided victories, and the fact that the World's Strongest Man is something of a pathetic loser.
** The Monster Association Arc actually served to highlight Saitama's flaws since his knack for getting lost, stuck, or just being late to a fight meant that the Hero Association had to get by a number of very hard fights without his help, which included a battle with a villain who would have wiped out humanity. Even though Saitama is virtually unstoppable, he still can't protect the world on his own.

* Rick Sanchez from Rick and Morty, for the first two seasons. When it comes to his (seemingly) limitless ability to invent crazy sci-fi tech and to get himself out of virtually every tough spot, not to mention with getting away with being a colossal jerk to everyone around him, Rick could qualify as an anti-Sue. But his character is far from perfect, and he often falls under a combination of archetype and deconstruction. As a person, he is an older man who’s had a tough break (divorce and the death of a close family member in some parallel universe), and the fact that he has all this tech and that he either can't solve his personal problems or prevent new ones from occurring. Though the fact that he can be funny, the handful of moments of his positive qualities and being a fictional character do contribute to his likability.
** Again, to be clear: Rick's antics would probably qualify him for the main list, but the show is very clear on a few points that move him here: First, Rick is an asshole (also a massive nihilist), and not the type you want to be, either (it's almost directly stated that his assholery grows from some pretty grim experiences and knowledge); second, Rick is not somebody you want to be, nor be around; and third, the writers realize that he's both of the above.
**Season 3 however, ruined this and tried to attempt to drop his despicability, what few weaknesses he had, and just plain made him extremely overpowered. The only reason we haven't moved Rick back to the main list is because, if you look at the production end, it becomes obvious Seasons 1 and 2 were effectively a completely different show from later seasons.

* The main casts of [[Star Trek]] TOS and TNG eras (besides Wesley due to being Rodenberry's self insert above and Voyager due to poor writing all around)--in particular, James T. Kirk when not written by William Shatner-- provide a good reference line for Suedom. Although they are usually right by authorial fiat, there are several points that point the other way from Suedom:
*#They are also usually allowed to be wrong about an issue, at least initially (and rarely, but still often enough to be worth mentioning, all the way to the end of the story).
*#The fact that the focus is usually on the scenario presented, rather then the perfectness of the characters.
*#They all have character flaws (Kirk's "No Such Thing As A No Win Situation" attitude is presented as something that could get him and his crew killed one day, for a notable example.)
*#They are not omni-competent, even within their field -- Kirk has canonically been outmaneuvered multiple times.
*#Most importantly, the writing is usually of sufficient quality to not make their perfectness an issue (except, in Kirk's case, for works written by William Shatner).
*#Notably, as part of #2 and #5, there is no "right" solution to many of the situations beyond "survival"; the audience is usually allowed to draw its own conclusions about the morality of the situation, whereas the author of a Sue typically drives home in heavy-handed fashion that X is ''definitely'' the morally correct course of action.
** Combined, these points make them a good reference line for "hyper-competent" characters: Beyond here may lie Suedom.
*** The creators of DS9 succeeded in toning down the Mary Sue factor a bit. A necessity when one of the premises of the series was energy based aliens who live in a wormhole. Who know little to nothing of meatbag values and no concept of time. The were even given a weakness too. The Prophets also did some pretty fucked up shit themselves and had to be convinced to do help out the main cast. Even when the Alpha Quadrant was being invaded by an empire that [[/pol/ ]]wishes they were. The Dominion themselves are a deconstruction of pre turn of the millennium [[Imperium of Man]] and [[Star Wars|the Galactic Empire.]] Unfortunately post Voyager Star trek went Transwarp speed in the other direction and the franchise had to be rebooted. [[fail|Twice]].

* At first glance, Tsukiko from [[Order of the Stick]] seems like a textbook Mary Sue, given the LONG list of Mary Sue boxes she ticks: Heterochromatic eyes, great beauty, skimpy clothing, unusually skilled for her young age, Japanese name meaning "moon child", oppressed by a stuck-up society not understanding her greatness etc. But in reality, Rich Burlew wrote her as a satire and deconstruction of the Mary Sue archetype and the mindset that often creates such characters. Listing them off:
*# The reason she was "oppressed by society"? They threw her in jail for '''literal''' [[Slaanesh corpsefucking]]. Yes, she's a necrophile, and it's treated as being just as gross as it is IRL, even by other villains.
*# Great beauty? Nobody cares, and it doesn't make her a good person by default.
*# Sees good in the bad guys that nobody else does? It's based on deliberately ridiculous logic that is completely wrong anyway. (To be exact, she holds the view that [[What|the living are jerks, and the undead are the opposite of the living, ergo the undead must be good people]]; the batshit insanity of this is called out for what it is.) Also, she thinks that Xykon is some kind of [[Twilight|Edward Cullen type-guy]], as opposed to the [[Alignment|Chaotic Evil]] [[Lich]] [[Sorcerer]] he ''actually is''.
*# A bad guy becomes a complete dumbass to accommodate her genius? Nope, Redcloak only let her have her way so his own, far more subtle machinations could avoid having attention drawn to them; when she forces his hand he gladly demonstrates to her that she was completely outclassed by him the whole time.
*# The bad guy gets effortlessly beaten by her because of her skills? Ha ha ha -- hell no. When she confronted him, Redcloak casually killed her in deliciously karmic fashion by effortlessly dominating her Wights ([[FATAL|simultaneously her surrogate children, minions and lovers]]), removing her enchanted anti-level-draining ring, and then ordering them to devour their creator as he delivered a scathing "You suck!" speech to her about how undead are not ''people'', just complex ''weapons''; her thinking otherwise doesn't make it so and if she ever thought he was powerless before her, she was dead wrong.
*#Just to really drive home the point: for all her big talk and all her supposed greatness, nobody on Team Evil gives a damn when Redcloak quietly ganks her (except the Monster in the Darkness, but they're the resident softie of the team) and she's swiftly forgotten about.
** TL;DR version: Tsukiko is a parody and deconstruction of a Sue, who is shown to be objectively deluded about everything and suffers actual consequences for her actions.




[[Category:Mary Sue]]

List of Mary Sues

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There are too many fucking [[Mary Sues]] in our games and fiction. We know it, and we love to complain about it, because it makes us feel a little better to call a spade a shovel. The original purpose of this list is to provide examples so the phenomenon can be studied, identified and - as a result of the latter - avoided.

(Note: please post Mary Sues in alphabetical order, so they don't fight about who's the better Mary-Sue. Also, this is about fictional characters, so while Canon Sues are acceptable, no real-life examples (even if there is such person named <s>Mary Sue AKA the Scientology founder's wife</s> I'm just adding that for fun). For the sake of peace, religious figures [and possibly mythological characters; particularly when they're from original mythologies] are real-life examples. Also, any characters added to the list without justifying reasons will be removed from this page. If you're going to add a race, please use the list below this one.

==Mary Sues Case Studies==
{{Plot Armour}}

* [[Alice]] from the in-name-only ''[[Resident Evil]]'' movies: A character created for the movies who started out as corporate spy, she has ever-growing superpowers and is <s>presented as</s> ENTIRELY invincible. She manages to become an even bigger Sue when she loses said superpowers yet continues to obliterate armies unscathed. The film refuses to even let other characters do anything but get rescued by her, she's worse than characters written by [[Matthew Ward]]. Later films even gave her clones to explain why she's still in the films. On top of all this, the bitch is played by the director's wife; she's his perfect Mary Sue waifu insert and she's literally sleeping with him to get the job. Don't forget that [[Katanas are Underpowered in d20|she dual-wields katanas]]. And shotguns. And probably Desert Eagles, too.

* Andrew "Ender" Wiggin from Orson Scott Card's Enderverse, and a blatant (almost comical to a serious reader) example at that. What's worse: he only becomes more of this as the story and the books progress. It's even worse in the 2013 movie. At least the books gave the other characters more depth, Ender's feats took more time to achieve, and it contained POV's outside of his.
** Ender's siblings Valentine and Peter. Ender's sister is a self righteous prig who is only overshadowed by their sociopathic brothers Peter. Peter himself is a mid-to-low functioning sociopath, [[What|but intelligent enough that, as a child, he comes up with sophisticated political philosophies that wow academic circles and get him appointed Political Leader of Earth as an adult. Despite the fact that a sociopath with absolute power would get tyrannical as soon as someone opposed them, he does no violence and dies with a benign, well-loved legacy]]. Yes, this really happens.

* [[Batman]] in an unskilled author's hands. He's a handsome human billionaire who's the pinnacle of human physical prowess and manages to defeat superpowered beings simply because "he had time to prepare" (with few thinking "why don't his opponents also use that time to prepare?"). On top of this he has LITERAL PLOT ARMOR; one of the DC editorial mandates is that Batman is not allowed to be truly defeated (he's usually too popular and has a presence in too much of the DC Universe to be allowed the downtime by editorial, unless it's part of a major storyline such as Knightfall). Because of this a certain tendency for Batman to turn into a Mary Sue is well documented (Read JLA: Act of God and weep; that story was all about starting the First Church of Batman. Or hell, check out the Dark Nights: Metal storyline, where a bunch of Evil Batmen who are variants on an existing superhero attack the DCU as opposed to, say, just doing a whole Evil Justice League like they have multiple times before). This problem becomes particularly acute when he takes down superpowered villains who usually bother other superpowered heroes, such as the Reverse Flash. On the non-Sue side, while Batman does have plot armor (nearly no one thinks to just shoot him when they get the chance and the few times they do he escapes, and he's never unexpectedly engaged by superhuman opponents who could easily beat him - like Darkseid), the same can be said for other non-superpowered heroes. Note, as well, that there are many ways of adding dramatic tension to such a foregone conclusion situation, and the above mandate only includes actual defeat, so Batman is allowed to fail and make mistakes in certain situations or the villain can escape to cause trouble even after their plan is thwarted, which also helps lessen the Bat-Sue Factor.
** Batman is at his worst when written by Frank Miller, who on top of the plot armor issues, writes Batman as a violent psychopath and anybody who calls him out is always presented as being in the wrong. Frequently other superheroes only exist in the story to be written as incompetent so Batman can be made to look better in comparison.

* [[Edgy|Billy Butcher from "The Boys"]] (comics and show, especially the comics) is a prime example of a Jerk Sue (An unsympathetic character nevertheless favored in the story, according to [[TVTropes|our frenemeies]]; "There's a difference between having a sympathetic backstory and actually being sympathetic"). Hating "supers" because one raped his wife and caused her death, Billy is half Punisher-knock-off, half self-insert mouthpiece for Garth Ennis hate boner against superpowers and religion - especially Christianity (it's no coincidence that Billy's a bitter atheist while the antagonist Homelander has a side job as a Christian Pastor and Starlight loses her Christian faith). Billy forms an anti-supers black ops team and works to help the protagonist Hughie get justice for his girlfriend’s death by superhero collateral damage. But Billy's reasons are selfish and he's also an edgelord (mean-spirited? check. violent? check. dark clothes? check. created by edgelord author? check. Revolves around attacking "The Man"? that's a big check!) who nearly turns on Hughie when Hughie starts dating the super defector Starlight, then continues the comics trend of nihilistic subversiveness. He has plot armor to put Batman to shame - even getting away with his dog urinating on a supervillain who's killed people for less - and supposedly has the moral high ground despite doing the same type of crimes as the villains. He then becomes a Villain Sue while trying to genocide supers, because Billy only loses in the end because he chooses to. Even when he loses he gets to die on his own terms by provoking Hughie into killing him so Billy doesn't get arrested and spend the rest of his life in prison while crippled, meaning that despite "losing" Billy effectivily still won. He’s also consistently never allowed to be wrong, as any time a character has something to say about Billy or his actions, he has something to throw back at them proving they’re actually wrong due to author fiat ensuring Billy only argues against strawmen. Finally, this story embodies the author's hatred of superheroes... but Billy himself has superpowers, making the entire premise hypocritical. Goes to show that edgelord Mary Sues are just as repellent as the sugary sweet ones.

* [[Furry|Brian Griffin]] from ''Family Guy'' at his worst. While he was generally depicted as the most sensible member of the Griffin household from practically the very beginning, this was balanced by his flaws (one of the most prominent being his drinking problem) and the fact that the show acknowledged that he could be annoying and/or an asshole. Later on, though, he became a mouthpiece for the showrunner Seth MacFarlane who was treated in-universe as being always right, with the only people who disagreed with him being strawmen who were obvious to the point of being cartoonishly over-the-top. Throw in the facts that Seth MacFarlane voices Brian, he uses his natural speaking voice to do so '''AND''' he often does this on hot-button topics... This was made all the more obnoxious by how flawed or downright ridiculous his logic often was (one of the most notorious examples being the widely-hated episode "Not All Dogs Go To Heaven", where he manages to convince a newly-fundamentalist Christian Meg that God doesn't exist because... she doesn't look as attractive as her mother Lois. Even worse, this was ''after'' the episode "I Dream of Jesus" where the Griffin family - Brian included - had Jesus Himself live with them for a week and do several miracles in front of them). This was somewhat addressed after Season 7, with following seasons often having other characters comment on the inherent absurdity of a talking dog lecturing people about politics (even though them actually challenging the views previously raised was a rare event). Quagmire even got a famous speech where he called out Brian for his self-righteousness and hypocrisy.

* Caius Ballad, the antagonist of ''Final Fantasy XIII-2''. Impractical overdesigned costume? Check. Impractical giant, overdesigned sword? Check. Purple hair? Check. Story-breaking powers? Check. Can't be beaten? Check. Openly called the most powerful ''Final Fantasy'' villain ever by his creator? Check. The only mitigating feature this fool has is that his English VA is Liam O'Brien.

* Darkseid from DC Comics is a rare case where people actually ''like'' someone for being a Sue. He wasn't one at the start of his career - Jack Kirby conceived him as a paper tiger who, for all his grandiose plans and ambitions, was only powerful if people feared him and could be beaten up by two street thugs who didn't know who he was, not anticipating that fans might prefer a villain who was really as intrinsically powerful as Darkseid claimed to be. He's strong and tough enough to go toe-to-toe with Superman, he has laser eyes that can do whatever he wants them to (including killing people instantly or bringing them back to life), he's a masterful schemer who knows all about setting up gambits where he wins no matter what and striking deals with easy ways around them he doesn't mention, most of his minions rival the Justice League in power and on top of all that he's the ruler of an entire planet that reliably goes to shit when he's not around to slap it into shape and sometimes a wide-reaching galactic empire. Despite all this Villain Sue-ness, any attempts to nerf him or bring him down to a more realistic villain level are met with widespread backlash and outrage, and his most celebrated storyline in recent comics history is Final Crisis, in which the heroes required a time-travelling, god-killing bullet to defeat him and he actually forced Batman to abandon his rule against killing. The message is clear: Darkseid is DC's ultimate villain (or close enough to that status that the number of people higher than him can be counted on a hand or two/ doesn't require literal divine intervention etc. to defeat and thus retaining a meaningful conflict) and the fans won't settle for anything less.
** There's a reason for this, by the way: Darkseid and his court neatly fill the archetypal niche of embodiments of "the fucked up things people do when you give them power", with, for example, Gods of Child Abuse and of Torture as two of his chief henchmen. Darkseid himself is the God of Tyranny. If you're going to have a hero who's about Hope and positive, creative or protective Aspirations (see: Superman, Flash, etc.), a villain who embodies the crushing of hope and negative, destructive Aspirations is incredibly useful. Making such a character a paper tiger can be made to work (see the Crimson King, under Special Cases), but is more often than not going to be unsatisfying, usually deeply so.

* Divis Mal from the RPG [[Aberrant]]. Oh, where to begin? Well, first of all on top of being the absolute, balls-out, most powerful Aberrant in the setting, ever, he's super smart, plans for everything, never loses ''no matter what the players do'', and has an ideology that can basically be described as "like Magneto, only ''right''. About ''everything.''" He's also in a loving relationship with a super-attractive partner who is ''also'' super-powerful, and his enemies are all stupid and happen to be straw-stuffed right-wing stereotypes because of course they are. He also serves as a thinly-veiled self-insert fanfic character for the lead game designer (a gay man with issues), and said designer once claimed that the title of the game referred to ''him specifically''. It was all the sequel game could do to take the piss out of all the problems he caused.

* Dr. Doom, depending on the writer. It doesn't help that he's a genius and self-made <s>tycoon</s> monarch with a tragic past, who keeps getting his deaths, defeats, failures and embarassing moments retconned as body doubles (naming the infamous "Actually a Doombot" trope). Worst case scenarios are when he's written by somebody that forgets that he's a VILLAIN and depicts his rule over Latveria as unrealistically benign, and makes it look like the superheroes are wrong for trying to keep him from taking over the world. Writers who like him too much also have him winning fights he doesn't deserve, beating characters who specialize in hand to hand combat despite rarely displaying any such skills himself, overpowering much stronger characters who should be able to defeat him based on how his fights with the Fantastic Four go, and be portrayed as a flawless genius who can plan for everything akin to how some writers handle Batman. Doom has had some famous victories when he's punched above his weight class in the past, which fanboy writers have used as the pretext to let him steal the powers of other beings with no difficulty, even though his past successes doing so weren't by any means easy.

* Elizabeth from ''BioShock Infinite''. Plot-sustaining power (the key to the whole plot literally rests in her hands), cannot be harmed, <s>makes a grown veteran of war look like an idiot child</s> only if you suck at the game... Regardless, she is routinely placed in easily escapable situations for the pure purpose of being saved when she can plausibly save herself, and makes none of the major (or minor) mistakes in the game. While some claim that she greatly dislikes violence, especially killing, individual interpretations vary depending on whether you view her murders as character arc-defining. To make her comparable to Sues like Lightning and Alice: Ken Levine tweeted to complain about all the people who'd [[rule 34|rule 34'd]] his perfect wife, begging them to stop because it was like seeing his daughter in Playboy (or words to that effect). Which resulted in the internet giving Ken Levine exactly [[promotions|what he wanted]]. She even gets to be tied into how Fontaine got Jack's command code in the first BioShock. Way to ruin the franchise with some conventional plot device.

*[[Elminster]], who is currently having a threesome with the goddess of magic and rad boobies and his adopted super-hot albino elf daughter while simultaneously beating the god of murder in a sword fight with one hand and the god of slavery in a magic fight with the other. Also, he's like a million years old and looks it. Ed Greenwood's self-insert character in the [[Forgotten Realms]], and a big source of "Why doesn't he just do this for us?" questions whenever he appears in questlines. Also, along with the gods of the setting and the Harpers, he's one of the reasons why the Forgotten Realms are in [[Medieval Stasis]].
**Ironically he didn't start out originally like this. Back at the beginning of D&D, Elminster wasn't a massive Mary Sue. Believe it or not, he simply used to be a maxed-out wizard with some additional abilities and stuff that appeared as a Deus Ex Machina in case players had an encounter that was too difficult to overcome, much like Gandalf in [[The Hobbit]].

*Emma from The Promised Neverland. Although originally a well fleshed-out character who stands as a clear foil to Ray. After the Goldy Pond Arc, Emma and, let's be honest, the quality of the manga itself started to go downhill. What was once meant to be a trio of protagonists that balanced each other with their strengths and weaknesses, was dumbed down to just Emma pulling shit out of her ass and having a talk-no-jutsu so powerful it can put even Naruto to shame. The amount of asspulls that Emma showed during the TPN in the later arcs was....pronounced enough that it becomes jarring especially when compared to the first two arcs of the manga. Seriously, she can somehow convince every single opponent that challenged her beliefs by simply talking to them and she never ever suffered any repercussions from it. Don't even get us started with enemies knocking themselves out due to ''very'' specific conveniences. Poor Ray was sidelined and reduced to a fucking side character near the end. She is idealistic to the fault and her ideas somehow manages to perpetuate inside the Daemon world just because she's ''that fucking good''. Emma is one of the unique cases where a well-written character got put into Mary Sue territory within the same series no-less. Instead of her character evolving, she devolved. Look, we in /tg/ knows that shonen manga and 'good conclusion' don't often mix, but TPN is one of the most infamous examples that recently came out.

*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TedsiCaV2B4 Empress Theresa] is a good example of the "waifu" theory of Mary Sues and the Doylist definition of Mary Sues, where the author's relationship to the character is the defining factor. Short version: Deranged author who can't take criticism creates his perfect waifu, hands her the world, and refuses to edit the resulting masterpiece, and posts the result for sale on Amazon. Criticism results, which in turn results in internet arguments on a scale that is ''amazing'' (by themselves, they dwarf all of the arguments and criticisms of the Twilight franchise put together, with the unsettling add-on that this is all the author's mindset).

*Every author self-insert. Especially those found in high-school writing assignments.

*Green Lanterns from Earth, especially Hal Jordan. All the human Green Lanterns are regularly shown to be the best Lanterns in the Corps because they ALL have indomitable willpower, skill, and courage, surpassing others who have been in the corps for decades. Most other Lanterns exist only to be killed off as a means of showing how dangerous a threat is. They're only ever effective when they are helping the Human ones. The most Green Lanterns ever killed was during the Emerald Twilight story arc and they were killed by, you guessed it, Hal Jordan.

*Haoh from Shaman King. If there is any villain that can truly be called a Mary Sue, it's him, most other villains with this accusation still get defeated. Haoh not only proves invincible throughout the whole series, able to easily pull of feats that are impossible for everybody else, he also has the ability to revive himself if killed, meaning even if the heroes beat him, which they state is impossible in a straight-up fight, it would be pointless, because he'd just back even stronger. Worse is that he goes around saying how awful humans and everyone, even the writer, seems to agree with him because the series ends with him winning, only delaying his plans to kill humanity because reasons, and gets away with a number of atrocities that would make numerous [[Chaos]] jealous. To top it all off, the sequel series has the heroes fighting to ensure he '''keeps''' his position as Shaman King because the alternatives to him would be worse, even though Haoh hasn't actually admitted plotting to destroy humanity and killing almost anyone who stood in his way was wrong, so really, there shouldn't be anybody worse than him.

*IG-88 in the ''Star Wars'' expanded universe, given that he easily breaks into the second Death Star and uploads his personality into it and takes control with nobody noticing. For those who're unfamiliar with the lore, this means that a single assassin droid managed to upload its personality into one of the most heavily-secured star stations ''in the galaxy'', without ''any'' of at least one million personnel (including techs, soldiers, and the human equivalent of Satan incarnate) discovering that anything is amiss. It also took over a planet, though this is far less Sueish than it sounds due to there being only a few dozen people on said planet in total, it having another four assassin droids to help it out, and it re-programming large numbers of extant droids to help it out in killing everyone on this planet along the way.

*[[James Bond]]. To what degree varies, but the Roger Moore version is the worst offender: he's unbeatable at just about everything, never loses his composure, a ladies' man to an unrealistic degree (even lesbians and villains who stand for everything he opposes switch sides after a dicking from Bond, not to mention that time he had sex with a lesbian was questionable consent at best...so Bond arguably gets away with actual sexual assault if not outright rape), implausibly intelligent, a crack shot, and basically unkillable. In the books, he is an unlikable git and an alcoholic, yet still gets shit done.

*James T. Kirk of [[Star Trek]], but only when written by William Shatner. While in TOS, Roddenberry himself outright stated Kirk was his Author Avatar and that he wanted the show to have the ambiance of Kirk being able to have any woman he desired, Kirk was still allowed to occasionally fail or make mistakes in certain situations. For other non-Shatner written works, the Suedom factor is kept under control by factors gone into under the list found under "Somewhat Special Cases", below.

*John Kramer, the "Jigsaw Killer" from the ''Saw'' films. Pick any character you know of with a long list of skills or attributes, this guy has more, and he keeps getting away for a half dozen movies. He's also influenced people to the point that even after he dies, some of them copy his actions and ideas and think they're doing good things.

*The Joker can be this in the hands of a poor writer. While there are damn good reasons he's one of the most iconic villains in all of pop culture, he's all too easy to write as a flawless schemer and trickster who can punch well above his weight class for no good reason. This is especially irritating if the writer takes the wrong lessons from ''The Killing Joke'' (by trying too hard to make him sympathetic; while that take on Joker is certainly tragic and nuanced, it's made very clear that his unfortunate past doesn't justify his actions... assuming it even happened at all, since he himself admits his memories of his pre-Joker life are inconsistent) and/or ''A Death in the Family'' (by reducing him to a guy who just brutally murders people; that story along with the aforementioned ''The Killing Joke'' helped make it a bigger part of his character, but it still kept his random and unpredictable goals and motivations rather than just making him a one-note murder machine who kills people for fun even when doing so would be counterproductive).

*Jon Snow (especially the show version): While this is in the books as well, it is more evident in the show and he is currently dying from a mutiny in the books. Being a bastard is a bad thing in Westeros so he gets sent to the wall, but it's uphill from there. He gets a Valyrian steel blade (which is incredibly rare and an heirloom of noble houses) in his first week. He has a pet Direwolf puppy like his siblings, but of course his looks unique. From here he gets named as squire and successor to the commander of the Night's Watch (though this does cause some resentment among his peers). Later on he meets Wildings where he spares one who turns out to be a woman; it's obvious where this goes... they don't get along, they fall in love, have sex and spend some time together, something forces them apart and she dies. She also has red hair, which stands out because among Wildings its considered lucky. While he gets stabbed like in the books, in the show he dies from it then gets resurrected by Melisandre/the Lord of Light. He's revealed to be the bastard child of Rhaegar Targereyn and Lyanna Stark, making him Westeros' rightful king, as well as Daenerys' nephew - but that doesn't stop him from having sex with aunt Daenerys*, and the incest is portrayed positively this time! Also, him beating Ramsay Bolton (see below); that's right, Jon's so Mary Sue his plot armor trumps the plot armor of another Mary Sue (to be fair, though, he was actually on the verge of losing the big battle to Ramsay right up until the moment his ass gets saved by his little sister and about four thousand mounted knights.) While some of the earlier traits don't necessarily equal a Mary Sue, they add up... oh, they add up (*Daenerys, a warqueen who brought dragons back from extinction among other things, makes mistakes and suffers consequences that would seem to impact her Sue-factor if they didn't always turn out to be functionally inconsequential in comparison to her astounding triumphs through casual part-time parenting.) Book Jon is way more well rounded as a character, where it is pointed out that he actually had a decent life as a bastard before coming to the Watch, and several choices he made ended up biting him in the ass come the mutiny.

*Jotaro Kujo, from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Part 3 and 4 (And part 6 but not in part 6... we'll get to that later). He's pretty much invincible like Kenshiro, but unlike Kenshiro, he didn't train a single day to be as hax as he is (His Stand "Star Platinum" is really strong, at the cost of short range, but plot gets in the way and he always gets close enough to ORAORA the bad guys). Also unlike Kenshiro, he is an asshole to everyone, but never suffers any consequences from it (Women literally ADORE him despite his jerkass attitude, because 80's). He spends the entire trip to Egypt spurting out massive amounts of [[Just as planned]] against every villain of the week, or simply getting powers as plot demands, some of the most outrageous examples being: The use of "Star Finger", which completely negates the previously stated range weakness; His "battle" against Steely Dan, where he DID get humilliated but retributed it tenfold in the end; His "battle" against Alessi, where he gets to beat a grown man unconscious with his bare fists despite being turned back into a SEVEN YEAR OLD; His battle against main villain DIO where he wins DIO's time stopping powers for bullshit reasons and wins; and, even more ridiculously, being able to RESURRECT his very dead Grandpa Joseph by [[what|using his stand for blood transfusing and heart-resetting]]. In part 4 he mellows down a lot, most notably [[FAIL|getting beaten by a rat]], but that doesn't prevent him from beating the shit out of the main villain Kira TWICE and stealing the spotlight from Uncle Josuke (The titular Jojo of part 4) on his final battle; too bad Josuke!. Part 6 however, does a great job at not only nerfing but rounding him altogether, the Jojo this time being his own daughter, Jolyne Cujoh (Note that is not Kujo), a delinquent who ends out in prison and resents him greatly for being an awful, absent father and constantly reminds him of it. He attempts to "fix" things but [[Just as planned|falls into one of main villain Pucci's schemes]] and is rendered comatose for great part of the story, when he latter regains his powers (With a significant decrease in durability) and comes to terms with Jolyne, the villain becomes Godlike and ends out killing him along with the entire universe; too bad Shonen Jump!, now seinen is Araki's best friend. In Pucci's universe he is a complete spineless weakling, but in case that was a bit too much, reality resets again and creates [[Awesome|a new universe free of the Joestars Tragic Fate and Part 3's bullshit]]. PD: In the Videogame Eyes of Heaven he is even worse, but this entry is already too long so i'll only say the creators weren't too good with resolutions.

*Kai Leng, from ''[[Bioware#Mass_Effect_3_.28The_Downfall.29|Mass Effect 3]]''. You're constantly told he's a badass assassin, but when he shows up, Shepard's crew suddenly become drooling idiots so Leng can strut about, act tough, and monologue. He brags about killing Thane (alien assassin squadmate from the previous game) even though the latter was hobbled by a terminal illness requiring daily medical care and Thane ''STILL'' got the drop on Kai Leng; Thane even says himself "That other assassin should be embarrassed. A terminally-ill Drell kept him from reaching his target." When you "win" the "fight" against him on Thessia, he still gets away, utterly unaffected by the crumbling architecture that stops Shepard from pursuing him. By the end of the fight, you've advanced the plot a grand total of nowhere, regurgitated information you already have, and been hamstrung as a player because the writer wants his character to look cool. He is yet another antagonist dropped onto a story filled with them, but is nothing more than a costume, sword, and book of one-liners. Unlike Saren from ME1, we have no connection with this douchebag because the story doesn't give him enough screen time to develop into anything.
** Alternate take: What appears to be Sue-ness is BioWare writing him as a Hate Sink. (Basically a character designed to be hated and nothing else, [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HateSink ask those smashers at TV Tropes for more info].) BioWare were using the Reapers as cool villains and leaning into the Illusive Man getting the Darth Vader treatment of the tragic, sympathetic villain who can possibly redeem himself with his death, so Leng became the game's villainous punching bag. Given what a gut punch the final battle is, clearly they wanted Leng's ultimate downfall to give the player a moment of catharsis so they could take a small victory where they got it. And for that to work, it had to be satisfying, and that meant he had to get on the player's nerves without an excuse or understandable motive to undercut their focused rage against him. Note that during the final battle against him, Shepard spends the whole time dressing him down as a coward who can only win by running away and after beating him, smashes his stupid sword and guts him like a fish with their omni-blade. [[Awesome|"That was for Thane, you son of a bitch!"]]

*[[Fist of the North Star|Kenshiro]], nothing can kill him and he's morally flawless, superior to everyone-fucking-else. At least until Shin Saga in the anime, where he starts fucking up often, even with his super kung-fu laser ninja powers. Most battles are curb-stomps until later on because ''it's a fucking show from the 80's''. Do note, however, that Kenshiro loses a ''lot,'' especially later on, and mostly wins his hardest battles because he's the only one worth a shit left alive by that point in the series.

*Kirby from his/their (Localization made him a he instead of ambiguous as in Japan, and it's been [[Skub|discussed]] ever since) eponymous franchise, and the first brainchild of the Smash man. Kids' game logic is in effect, but even then it can be egregious. Between their [[/d/|insta-death inhaling]], the Copy Ability (and various gimmick abilities throughout the franchise), unnatural toughness, and [[What|godkilling streak]], the puffball is a strong contender for most powerful video game character. However, their immense, possibly-Eldritch (as of Star Allies) power is balanced by the fact they're almost always portrayed as ignorant if not a full-blown [[Derp|dumbass baby]]. Seriously, their naive nature is known to cause various problems for themselves and others. Notable feats include repeatedly turning back an all-assimilating Eldritch hivemind, defeating an interdimensional wizard and the god-crown he wore, singlehandedly bringing down an [[Games Workshop|uber-greedy megacorporation]] and stopping their AI from going full [[Exterminatus]], destroying(?) an actual Eldritch god of darkness and destruction [[What|they may or may not be related to]], and stopping a god-alien (not-so-originally called [[Original character, do not steal|the Ultimate Lifeform]]) from causing two worlds to collide just by [[WTF|running it over with Truck-Kun]].

*Kratos from ''[[God of War]]''. He curb-stomps fucking gods due to [[plot armor]] (and because one of them decided to give a bloody psychopath the powers of a god; MENSA applicant right there) and he has threesomes with complete strangers, even though he is meant to be grieving for the death of his family that he himself murdered. Oh and the rules for how death works change whenever it's convenient for him. Err, some of this is because most of the gods he kills with super-powerful items, including Blade of Olympus, the God of War universe's version of Zeus' lightning bolts the cyclopes gave him to defeat the titans, which has been infused with all the power of the Greek God of War. And he is later revealed to house the Power of Hope since GoW1, a power strong enough to kill gods. Now he is starting a new family in Norse mythology land Midgard while STILL having the "godly" super strength despite the blade of Olympus having drained all his power and given it all to the world. (Note that he clearly didn't give up his combat experience nor his genetics as a demi-god son of Zeus. Even without those things, he's at minimum a heavily trained demi-god from the strongest of the Greek gods.) At least he acknowledged how fucking awful he was in the past and tried to be a good father toward his new son Atreus, but still keeping his no gods allowed policy.

*Lana Lang from the TV show ''Smallville'' (note; Smallville is not considered canon to the Superman story by DC Comics). Almost big a Mary Sue as Bella from Twilight; almost because she actually has a few useful skills, but she learns them unrealistically quickly (becoming a black belt in martial arts in ''one week''). She has the cliché orphan story but with a unique spin for maximum snowflake effect (her parents were killed by a meteor strike), everyone in the story loves her with the exception of some villains (the key word is SOME), and she's treated as someone who can do no wrong. Lana even got on the cover of TIME magazine, in-universe, as a child! She serves as a wedge between Clark and having a relationship with any other girl and between Clark and his eventual Superman destiny. Clark technically sacrificed his father to save her! In one episode, Clark rewound time on a day in which Lana died, and instead lost his father.

*Lightning from ''Final Fantasy XIII'', she is basically a pink-haired Cloud without any of Cloud's likable personality traits. She's currently the NEW AND ASTONISHING HEAVENLY Valkyrie that fights a purple Sephiroth in her new game "Lightning's Return". Not that we care, but she was created by Motomu Toriyama ([[Matt Ward]]'s Japanese cousin), a man with a Chris-Chan-like persona and Matthew Ward-style writing who is now continuously raping the franchise. He has a waifu love for Lightning like Paul has for Alice. Lightning is comparable to Alice on many levels, which says a lot, really. She also has tons of fucking DLC "costumes" dedicated to her so the player could dress her up and fap her to death. This is so fucking shameful that I'm crazy enough to believe Alice is a much capable heroine. Somebody kill me, please. Oh, just recently, Toriyama decided to have Lightning become a guest character in a future Final Fantasy. So not only is the franchise gonna suffer the rotting Emperor syndrome, but Lightning is now the literal goddess of every Final Fantasy game? Seriously, have you ever seen Paul doing such disgusting things with Alice? Like forcing Alice into an actual ''Resident Evil'' game (well, the ''Resident Evil'' franchise is dead as well)? Motomu Toriyama is officially worse than Paul Anderson!!
** Gets worse: Toriyama has stated that Lighting is the "first" strong female character in any ''Final Fantasy''. Even ignoring the dozens of better-written female characters, some of which he himself has written, the "strong" meaning just physical doesn't work either; FF7's Tifa (a game he worked on, btw) can punch tanks to death.

*Lisa Simpson from ''The Simpsons'', depending on the writer. Lisa has dipped into Mary Sue-dom the same way as the above-mentioned Brian from Family Guy (both serving time as smug mouthpieces for their show's creators on hot-button-topics). There was also a time where Lisa had the tendency to never be punished for the times she does do the wrong doing (she ruins Homer's BBQ in "Lisa the Vegetarian" and merely got scolded by him where Bart would likely have been strangled for it). One episode had people deferring to Lisa over Prof. Stephen Hawking in Hawking's area of expertise, and Groening once said Lisa is his favorite character and that he would do anything to prevent her from looking bad (to reference the strangling; the show's animators also applied a double-standard as they strongly protested against the idea of Homer strangling Lisa for upsetting him like he does with Bart). While Lisa's popularity in-universe fluctuates, at its worst the whole town bends over backwards for her even when it goes past characterization (eg; Springfieldians can be '''VERY''' sore losers, as demonstrated in the episode "Boys of Bummer" where the whole town - sans Marge - ridiculed Bart for losing a sports game [[Grimdark|to the point that they nearly drove the 10 year old to suicide]], but when Lisa lost a spelling contest she was applauded for winning second place and got a Mount Rushmore-style sculpture of her face). That being said, there are episodes where Lisa is depicted as unpopular at school, her activism is made over-the-top to be played for laughs, she's neglected at home and less of a "smartest person around" and more of a "only sane person surrounded by idiots", lessening the Sue-factor.

*Lucy from the 2014 movie of the same name. Long story short, she gets forced by gangsters to smuggle drugs in her stomach, but the container bursts and the drugs make her smarter and use more and more of her brain, because this movie was seriously written around the pseudoscientific premise that humans only use 10% of their brain. This also causes her to [[What|develop superpowers somehow]], and at the end of the movie she basically becomes god.

*Magneto is not inherently one, but he does have the INSANE potential to become this when crappy writers start taking his sympathetic traits too far ("Hey guys, let's [[What|make Magneto a member of the X-Men and have him date Rogue]]!") or just forget he's the bad guy. Hell, he sometimes becomes this even when he's a horribly despicable villain. Jeph Loeb's raping of the Ultimate Universe known as "Ultimatum" has him use his magnetic powers to nearly destroy the world just by waving his hands at Earth's magnetic poles (completely breaking the laws of physics in the process) and then effortlessly take on half the X-Men and almost all of the Ultimates singlehandedly and nearly win.

*Master Chief from the ''[[Halo]]'' series is definitely one. For one, he has [[Matt Ward|Ward-grade]] [[Heresy|plot armor]]. Seriously, it was repeated throughout the games that he was born with the word [[What|'''LUCK''']]. To further expand on his Sueness, this 7-foot tall hunk of raging Leprechaun saved the entire Galaxy ''Twice!'', single-handedly stopped the Human-Covie War at the last minute, escaped and defeated an entire race of "Super-Space-Zombie-Fungus" that could mindfuck Culture-tier Civilizations without [[What|having his own brain being raped]], is one of the last surviving SPARTAN II's, solo an entire legion of Covenant Honor-Guards (Which are equivalent to Spacemarine Captain in rank but with inferior gear and training) as well as successfully assassinating a very important Covie leader protected by said Guards without being captured, survived escaping an Exterminatus-level explosion that destroyed a Super-Weapon 'Ring' by ''out-flying it'', somehow his armor is strong enough to deflect Fuel-Rod shots (Which are essentially Plasma Cannons), destroy a flying and mentally psychotic lightbulb with an overcharged Lascannon as a Self-Defence weapon (To be fair 343 Guilty Spark ''is'' a Forerunner Janitor Robot), and did I mention he saved the entire Galaxy ''twice''? Furthermore with the release of Halo 4, MC is now magically gifted the genes and DNA by the Librarian to become full on [[RAGE|''impervious to a fucking Forerunner Super-Weapon/Death-Beam'']], which allows him to single-handedly fight through the insides of a very important Forerunner Capital Ship filled with Necron/Warp-Spiders kill bots and somehow through the act of plot, [[Derp|defeat ''the'' highest ranked Forerunner Military General that has the power to solo the entire Galactic Empire from Star Wars.]] I mean [[Rage|WTF!]] did the developers of Halo not realize that they just created a character with plot-armor so powerful that they make the likes of [[Kaldor Draigo]] look decent in comparison? Thankfully however, as pants-on-head retarded as some of the feats listed for MC are, he at least has some faults such as being psychologically raped in childhood, doesn't have the "Morally Superior to thou" personality and has a very grim view of the war, almost got killed by the killer space popcorn, being rather mediocre for a SPARTAN II when compared to his other colleagues, is only good in leadership and even then made some stupid mistakes, gets pretty beaten the fuck up by a Brute, his Superhuman abilities only stopped when fighting against low-ranked Elites and know he will lose against one if he fought one-by-one, and most of the battles he has been through had almost cost him his life. Those faults listed are what makes good old Chiefy ''NOT'' in the top 10 most powerful Mary-Sues and makes him somewhat tolerable albeit boring compared to the other listed.

*Moka Akashiya from Rosario + Vampire: Stupidly fucking OP enough to one-shot kick '''EVERY OTHER FUCKING MONSTER''' IN THE '''ENTIRE FUCKING SERIES''' AND '''BOTH''' SEASONS, has a ''special exception'' to her power levels made so she gets 'first ancestor' vampire blood to enable her to be ''even more powerful'', has no character development ''at all'' (this is true of both her personalities), is a student at an academy and one-shot kicks two members ''of the fucking faculty'' '''AND TOTALLY GETS AWAY WITH IT''', and is ''unbearably arrogant'', revelling in her power and basically saying everyone else is beneath her. The reason she's this bad? The author admits he LOVES vampires. So she's not only an Author Avatar, but a Canon Sue as well, existing only for [[Heresy|heretical deviants]] to fap to and the author to [[Slaanesh|schlick]] to. God-Emperor fucking damn it, Akihisa Ikeda. You little shit. What's worse is that [[Matt Ward|he has no shame about it]]. [[C.S.Goto| No, really]].
**This is lessened slightly during S1's later episodes (and S2 more generally), with a number of non-vampire characters who rather easily take her down or otherwise outmatch her being introduced. Compared to the big leagues, she's a promising new recruit but not comparable to them.

*Mordenkainen, Gary Gygax's personal avatar in the Greyhawk setting and a level 30 wizard who never fucking ages past 50 despite being a hundred fucking years old without turning into a lich, he became bald for some reason, which makes him look evil, but he remains Stupid Neutral.

*Olympia Vale, another character from the [[Halo]] Series and seems to be all around taking over the mantle of Mary Sue from Master Chief as he is pushed in the sidelines like an old man being pushed in the old folks home. Whilst Locke has been accused for being a rather bland and forgettable copycat cutout of the original MC, he still pales in comparison to that of Vale. Essentially imagine Vale as MC but remove the sociopathic and borderline mentally damaged aspects of John 117, make her a prodigy even beyond that of Spartan recruits which in turn made her pretty easy to integrate in the SPARTAN IV program and make her instantly learn the language of the Elites whilst by herself in space with the only excuse being that [[Bullshit|'she was bored'.]] Vale and to an extent, the majority of the SPARTAN IV's seem to be an ongoing campaign from Karen Traviss (AKA the Destroyer of Fluff and Halo's Matt Ward) [[Derp|to further demonize Halsey and her SPARTAN II program]] for no better reason other than being forced to be [[Fail|unethical in an organization as ethically sound as the]] [[Inquisition|Imperial Inquisition.]] As you can imagine, this has already spurred some [[Skub|ire bitching]] in the Halo community and only time will tell if newer sequels from the game would flash her character out in a more decent or obscene matter.

*Ozymandias, AKA, Adrian Alexander Veidt from ''Watchmen''. He was born into a wealthy family, then threw it all away and earned even more money. He's a perfect athlete, good-looking, smartest man in the world (He mind fucked Dr. Manhattan, a blueish godlike superhuman) and a vegetarian. In the book he is able to successfully genetically engineer some sort of monster that would be teleported to New York and as it dies unleash a psychic shockwave that would kill millions in a "common enemy" plot to avert World War 3 by uniting them against "interdimensional aliens" (he does the same in the movie, but instead of aliens, he tricks people into making Dr Manhattan their common enemy - Dr Manhattan himself goes along with the plan once he finds out so there will be world peace). The only downside he had is loneliness, since he had betrayed all his friends and killed the only companion in his life, a fucking genetically-engineered female lynx named Bubastis, by having her bait Dr. Manhattan to the incinerator and killed them both with a switch. Still, Ozymandias is perfect because Mary Sue don't need friends. It was also portrayed that his "common enemy" scheme to stop World War 3 (which involved killing millions) in a positive or at least sympathetic light. He also caught a bullet fired from a gun with his bare hands, and the bullet didn't just go through them, like it would in real-life, despite him not having superpowers. Interesting to note that he the idol he worships: Alexander of Macedonia, is a man born before Christ, and the name Ozymandias is reference to a freaking [[Necron|Egyptian pharaoh: Ramses II]], proving that Adrian is just as egoistic as [[Dante]] and the [[Ultramarines]] by have the name of an ancient ruler as his own nickname. Hell, his color page on "before the watchman" made him looked like some sort of floating Jesus!! Thankfully, he has the decency to acknowledge what he did was wrong in the comics while also justifying it as being for the greater good...which it was in that it stopped World War 3, and he is more complex and well rounded as a character than several others.
** There's also the deliberately ambiguous implication that Ozymandias could get some comeuppance in the future (author Alan Moore stated that what happened after the end of the graphic novel is for each reader to decide for themselves); this is done with Dr Manhattan's cryptic response to Ozymandias' question whether things would work out, and Rorschach giving his journal - containing evidence implicating Ozymandias and revealing his plan - to a news outlet.
** A direct sequel to Watchmen called "Doomsday Clock" came and finally made Ozymandias pay for what he has done. After the news outlet ousted Veidt's plans, it started a chain of reaction that eventually led to his downfall as well as the supposed end of humanity. The European Union dissolved, the USSR went back its old warmonger ways with their relation between the US degrading to lows below even the Cold War, nuclear weapons failed to be disarmed and one such missile was fired from Russia to New York City. Adrian is now the most wanted man in the world and has brain cancer (possibly ironically validating what he framed Dr. Manhattan for). Still, he managed to fight his way out of this chaos with other DC heroes (Superman and the godamned Batman mind you, characters with thick plot armor), the Comedian (brought back by Manhattan), pretty much everyone around the world but especially Dr. Manhattan (who masterminded this all from his glass palace on Mars). Also, keep in mind this sequel is not written by Alan Moore himself so it's at best considered an alternate continuity.

*Prometheus (the DC supervillain) certainly didn't ''start'' as this but ended up being twisted into one. When first introduced he was a genuinely cool and intimidating supervillain whose insane skill and manipulations were balanced out by his crippling mental issues (which the heroes exploited to take him down). Unfortunately, writers who weren't as skilled as Grant Morrison got their paws on him and made him ludicrously overpowered to the point where he single-handedly ''destroyed Star City, killing Roy Harper's daughter in the process''. Thus Prometheus went from an awesome member of Batman's rogues gallery to a complete waste of pages. Thankfully he was prevented from becoming any worse thanks to Green Arrow putting an arrow through the bastard's skull.

*Ramsay Bolton (show version): Oh good fucking God, where to start with this particular Villain Sue? Well, for one, he manages to take on twenty of the best Ironborn warriors, who were all heavily armed and armored, while not just unarmored but SHIRTLESS and armed with nothing but a kitchen knife and a mace, and SOMEHOW kicks their asses. Then, much later, he is shown to completely annihilate the battle-hardened Stormlander army led by Stannis Baratheon, the greatest military commander in Westeros, with nothing but cavalry, while the previous episodes had established that Ramsay is a tactically inept moron. (This can also tie in with the fact that the writers of the show seriously fucked over Stannis from "stern-but-honorable competent tactical genius" into "greedy, fanatical dumbass"). Finally, he is constantly shown to get his way no matter how stupidly contrived it seems to the viewer, arguably the worst case being marrying and deflowering Sansa Stark by raping her and getting the killing blow on fan-favorite giant Wun-Wun. His Sueness ends with his face getting caved in by Jon and fed to his own hounds by Sansa.

*Rey AKA Ma-Rey Sue from the [[Star Wars]]. From the release of the first movie, she already caught some backlash among the old guards of Star Wars who consider her a self-insert Mary Sue with a feminist agenda. Leaving aside the politics, the resulting trilogy and related events have only confirmed Rey’s Mary Sue-dom. Reasons from the first movie alone include Rey showing [[What|a better knowledge of the Millennium Falcon’s inner workings than then Han Solo and Chewbacca]] who’d maintained the ship for decades where she had it for less than a week, being offered a job by Han shortly after meeting him despite him and Chewie being sufficient crew for the Falcon and Han being a cynic who barely knows her (like something right out "A Trekkie's Tale"), Rey suddenly being a [[Wat|powerful Force user who can resist a trained Force-user's mind probe]] despite no previous mention of her being Force sensitive and [[Bullshit|Rey performing said Jedi mind trick while in captivity almost immediately after learning she's Force Sensitive]] despite the fact that performing said trick is known to be difficult to master (to be fair, Rey had just been in telepathic contact with somebody who knew how to pull off a Mind Trick, and wasn't as good at telepathic interrogation as he thought he was). Rey’s only character flaw is recklessness, and while it does get her captured by the villains in the first and third films, this is offset by Rey getting rescued unharmed both times by luck/plot armour, which is a Sue-ish trait (at least Luke suffered actual setbacks and injuries – such as a severed hand and failing to save Han from Boba Fett). Furthering Rey’s status of Mary Sue is the “creator's relationship to the character” part, with several of the filmmakers either pulling new explanations out of their asses to explain Rey’s abilities (or retconning them, such as the Force “cheat-coding” and the “Force Dyad”) or attacking anyone who didn’t like the character by tarring them with the same negative brushes ([[SJW|accusations of sexism got lots of usage]]). The third film threw in the big twist that Rey is ''really'' Rey '''Palpatine'''. You heard right, Rey is literally Emperor Palpatine's ''granddaughter'', almost as if they're trying to one-up Luke’s relation to Vader. The third film also ends with Rey taking the last name “Skywalker” while Luke and Leia’s force ghosts look on approvingly. For a more comprehensive coverage on why Rey is a Mary Sue, look up the results of the Mary Sue Litmus test on the discussion page.
** While it could be argued that Luke and Anakin are just as ridiculous, they fit easier the form of tropes they are. Luke, being the most classic [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheHero Hero] ever, is quickly established as good at most things he does, culminating in flying an X-Wing through the Death Star trench and making an one-in-a-million shot to destroy the Death Star, and this is less than a week before he was just a backwater farmboy, albeit one who is outright stated to be both a decent pilot and skilled shot. Though while Luke used the Force untrained like Rey did, his only feats were enhancing skills he already had and developed; a stretch, but more plausible than pulling new skills ''that require training to use'' out of nowhere. Anakin is the [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChosenOne Chosen One], and people who are chosen tend to be skilled and powerful regardless because the Powers-That-Be have their backs on top of any personal skills they have. Young Ani competes and wins a pod-race that only aliens can normally participate in due to the sheer insanity of it, and then blows up a Trade Federation Dreadnought with a fighter he'd never been in before (even then kid Anakin also had R2-D2's help). Again, no problem. Now Rey is about as much the Hero as Luke but is an Unchosen One compared to Anakin, and the wildest thing she does in her first movie is to use the Force untrained (much like Luke does in A New Hope) and gain the upper hand on a Sith apprentice. Why people doesn't expect her to be [[-4 Str|as powerful]] as [[Lawful Good|Luke]] and [[BBEG|Anakin]] is better left for another discussion entirely, though the fact that Rey is touted as a strong female character while being propped up by the failures of men and saved by men throughout the trilogy doesn't help her case. Also, Rey has never once lost a fight in the movies, while Anakin first got his arm chopped off in a hilariously one-sided fight with Dooku then later had all his limbs cut off and was lit on fire in his duel with Obi-Wan, and Luke was totally outmatched by Vader in The Empire Strikes Back and got his ass handed to him on a beskar platter.
** Another thing to consider is the ridiculous timeline of Episode 7 and 8. In approximately 5-6 days, Rey went from being a scavenger on Jakku to defeating Snoke's bodyguards and being on par with Kylo Ren in combat.

*Richard, from the Sword of Truth series (he's not as bad in the TV series). He is always considered an ideal hero despite being cruel, sociopathic, and thinking that the universe should bend over backwards for him [[What|(which it actually does)]]. Everyone who disagrees with him is evil (even if that's the only reason they're considered a villain) or turns evil. Gratuitous rape is thrown in by the author as a cheap way to make him look better (making villains as reprehensible as possible doesn't solve the problem of the protagonist being completely un-heroic).

*Richard B. Riddick, from the Riddick universe. Vin Diesel's personal self-insert inspired from his own D&D Rogue. Didn't start out as a Mary Sue though, going from a sensible power level ''(where a fist-fight with a morphine-addicted merc is reasonably fair)'' with dubious morality and a lovably snarky badass attitude. Later becoming ''(particularly amongst the directors cuts)'' a superpowered badass who can single-handedly take on squads of soldiers with a knife, resist soul sucking, commune with animals and make threats with [[Just as Planned]] modes of killing. ''("kill you with my teacup" / "dead in 5 seconds")'', oh... he can also explode as shown in the director's cuts and off-screen in the video games. His later portrayals also show his morality becoming a "told you so" mentality, where, when people die it's really because they are the assholes and nothing to do with Riddick.

*Rick Sanchez, of Rick and Morty, in seasons 3+. (See Rick under "Special Cases", below; the only reason we're not moving him here completely is because Rick and Morty arguably became an ''entirely'' different show between seasons 2 and 3.)

*Roran, from the Inheritance Cycle. He started as a farmer-apprentice blacksmith, yet he managed to become an invincible warrior, charismatic presence, expert orator and master strategist without any training. We are talking of a young man who soloes 194 soldiers in a melee battle and wins without taking any major injuries. He then survived a public flogging severe enough to be an alternative to execution despite it being not long after that battle. He also beat an Urgal in a wrestling match despite the Urgal being stronger, bigger, better trained and having horns. In the third book he even single-handedly defeated a Ra'zac; a race that are to humans what wolves are to sheep. Then in the final battle Roran bested the magically-enhanced warrior who killed the elf-queen, and did so without magic or special weapons of his own. Yes, Roran managed to achieve feats that even elves would consider impossible. While his cousin Eragon has the (weak) excuses of magical enhancement and helping from his dragon companion, Roran doesn't. He is a common man who, for plot reasons, creates a plot armor just by thinking about his girlfriend.

* Sarah Kerrigan from the Starcraft series has become this more and more as time passes. In the first game she's just a terran ghost (psionic assassin) who gets turned into a human-zerg hybrid and disappears from the plot after like two or three missions in the zerg campaign, but then she becomes one of the main villains of the expansion pack and everyone else in in the game becomes a thundering dumbass so she can look like a master manipulator despite being played for a sap by yet another character, and commits several atrocities to serve herself and her own agenda but is not punished them in any way despite multiple characters swearing revenge on her. Then the sequel ramped it up. Out of fucking nowhere she is designated the savior of the galaxy from the new villain in town with virtually no justification offered except that Blizzard were too cowardly and attached to the the character to follow through on people wanting her dead. She gets purified of zerg corruption and another character who's more fun and interesting gets killed off so she can live. The zerg campaign centers on her and shows her doing yet more pointlessly-cruel and destructive things in the name of petty revenge, its only concessions to the ridiculousness of letting her live being some half-hearted acknowledgements of her past crimes. And after a pair of pointless guest appearances in the protoss campaign and its prologue campaign, she gets picked by the last good Xel'Naga in the universe to receive his essence and become a Xel'Naga herself so she can defeat the main villain in a laser beam-off. And after her boyfriend, a better-written character who spends all his time getting shit on throughout the series, is seen moping in a bar at the end of the final campaign, she gets to ass pullingly make him a Xel'Naga too, for some moron's idea of resolving their relationship with happily ever after ending.

*Sakamoto from 'Haven't You Heard? I'm Sakamoto' never fails at anything and always manages to look [[Awesome]] no matter what he is doing or how much the other characters try to sabotage him, and it is hilarious.

*Selene, from the 'Underworld' movies. Throughout the series, she bears several similarities to [[Alice]]; both are experts with weapons, both have superior biology to their respective species (humans for Alice, Vampires for Selene), both kill their way through swarms of enemies without getting a scratch, both have little regard for their source material, and both are played by the wives of the directors of their respective film series.

*Sun Crusher, from [[Star Wars]]. Possibly one of the few cases where a Mary Sue was not a character, but a ''superweapon''. This...thing first came under the much [[Skub]] Jedi Academy books and was considered so fucking overpowered its mere existence created more plotholes than [[Erda]] would have pushed out. Hated by basically everyone in the fandom, this fucking trainwreck of a superweapon was small and fast as hell, had weapons that could [[Exterminatus|destroy an entire star system]] and has armor so powerful it could even [[Wat|tank a glancing hit from a ''Prototype Death Star''.]] Seriously, there was one case where the Sun Crusher destroyed an entire ISD by simply [[RAGE|''ramming into the fucker''.]] And you thought Goku's power wanking was filthy, this abomination makes the [[World Engine]] look limp-dicked in comparison. Considered one of the worst examples of Legends' superweapon power creep, this overpowered mess of an idea almost broke the Star Wars EU itself since anyone piloting this proverbial [[Rape|rape train]] could have single-handily curb-stomped both the Galactic Empire and the Yuuzhan Vong ''combined''. Also, it kinda looks like an ice cream cone for some reason.

*Squirrel Girl from Marvel Comics is another one of these Sues who's actually popular and enjoyed for it, probably because she's played entirely for laughs: Doreen Grey is a [[Mutant]] teenage girl with Spider-Man levels of strength/speed/agility, can grow bone knuckles, can talk to squirrels (and have them do her bidding) and has the ability to defeat any villain she wants off-screen. This includes big-name villains like Doctor Doom (she beat him in her first appearance and several times afterwards, and this is a rare instance of a Doom-related incident that was ''not'' smoothed over with the "Just a Doombot" excuse), Ego the Living Planet (who is, like his name suggests, a planet, meaning that a teenage girl beat up a planet), Thanos (who is one of the biggest badasses of the Marvel Universe, but the writers saved his face by replacing him in this instance with a perfect copy of him), Deadpool (whom she calls the mean, mean man; he's actually scared of her), M.O.D.O.K. and tons of other people. She was once part of a C-list superhero team, but quit because she thought she was holding them back (which she was entirely correct about: she once apologized to them for being late because she had to beat a 100' space dragon) and left for Marvel's Nexus of the Multiverse: New York. Despite her unapologetic Mary Sue-ness the fans love her and see her as the one spot of light in the otherwise relentlessly [[grimdark]] Marvel Universe, because again, she's played entirely for laughs and there's nary a title in Marvel Comics that couldn't do with more laughs.

*[[Superman]] in the hands of a poor writer. He is morally perfect, one of the strongest beings in the DC universe, and his one weakness that's supposed to kill him never works <s>ex: he lifts an entire continent of Kryptonite after being stabbed by a dagger made of it</s> thankfully ''Superman Returns'' had so many plotholes that ''Man of Steel'' declared it all non-canon. The only reliable way to nerf him is to have Batman beside him, because Superman always becomes a dumbass when Batman is around (go watch DCAU Justice League to see for yourself). Good writers can avoid falling into this by having him go up against villains who can genuinely threaten him (such as General Zod, Maxima or Doomsday; in fact, the writers made Doomsday specifically to be a threat who can physically match Superman), showing that even with all his vast powers there are things Superman just can't do (in one tragic story it turned out that even though he can benchpress planets, he can't stop his parents from dying of cancer) or emphasizing that his strong morals are not intrinsic to him, but a product of a happy childhood, caring parents and a network of close friends, and he wouldn't necessarily have them if he were raised somewhere less pleasant (like, say, Planet Apokolips or the Soviet Union - both actually happened in Elseworlds stories, look it up) or if those close to him were taken away (like in the Injustice and Kingdom Come comic series).

*Tauriel, Peter Jackson's special snowflake from ''The Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug'' (a Mary Sue in something related to Tolkien; [[Tolkien|Beren and Luthien are deep and well-written enough to get a pass]], this is a sad day). Not content with undermining or retconning the book, Jackson creates a special snowflake elf OC. Tauriel's ridiculously skilled at fighting to the point she matches Legolas in archery - and he's pretty OP in the films (as shown when she shoots an arrow at him when he surprises her, he returns fire and their arrows collide with each other) - she also has healing powers. According to all of Tolkien's books, only a select few elves can heal people such as Lord Elrond Half-Elven, wielder of one of the three Elven Rings of Power, some who's studied healing for millennia and is a direct descendant of the Kings of the Noldor; all things which Tauriel lacks. In addition, she's ship-teased with canon-characters Legolas (who never appears, or even gets mentioned, in the book - albeit he was shoehorned into the film to cash in on his popularity with fangirls and his presence makes some sense since his father Thranduil was in the book) and Kili. To be fair, some of the ship tease between Kili and Tauriel is well handled as well, in particular when Kili teases her and then tells her stories when locked in prison.

* Tobias (or Takuto in the original Japanese) from the Pokémon anime. His design looking like someone was trying ''way'' too hard to make him seem "mysterious" and "badass" is just the tip of the iceberg. For starters, he has ''at least'' two legendaries in the form of Darkrai and Latios, despite the anime earlier establishing how difficult it was for even Frontier Brains (who are trainers deliberately selected by Battle Frontier head honcho Scott from among the best of the best) to acquire and control Pokémon of such caliber. How he got such Pokémon is never explained. When he faced off against Ash in the Sinnoh League after only getting a few mentions and cameos beforehand, he knocked out Ash's entire team while losing only the aforementioned Darkrai and Latios, then went on to win the league and essentially disappear from the show entirely. To put it simply, he was clearly only put in the anime to prevent Ash from winning so that he wouldn't end his journey - which didn't even make any sense, since Ash had ''already'' won a league (the Orange League) and still continued traveling and training; as a matter of fact, it would be out of character for a spirited competition hound like Ash to sit on his laurels no matter how many awards and accolades he won. While Tobias wasn't the first character to knock Ash out of a league competition and wouldn't be the last, him being an inexplicably absurdly overpowered trainer who blatantly only existed to keep Ash from winning made him by far the most hated.

* Tyrion Lannister from Game of Thrones, most of it strictly in the show (especially in the later seasons), much, much less in the books. He is exceedingly smart, capable of fighting against trained soldiers double his size, ends up at Daenarys' court despite her having more than ample reasons to distrust him, gets in charge of Mereen for no reason given when Daenarys disappears, runs a complete shitshow on top of it and still somehow ends up in her council, where he continues to give advice that is just plain wrong and sets back Daenarys' efforts to retake Westeros. His sheer incompetence in Seasons 7 and 8 should get him at least fired, if not outright executed. Instead, the showrunners abandon his character arc altogether to make him the audience's avatar and the closest thing the setting has to Prime Minister in the end, who also is able to make all of the lords of Westeros follow his idea of an elective monarchy, which he came up with on a whim. This is counterbalanced by his character as portrayed in the books and the earlier seasons (incidentally the ones where GRRM was still actively involved in the production of the series), where he is impulsive, arrogant and extremely vindictive (to the point of murdering his former lover, a prostitute, for sleeping with his father in a jealous rage) towards nearly everyone in his immediate vicinity. To add to this, he is also often too blinded by his hatred for his own family to see the bigger picture; where Tywin gave him the authority to act as Hand of the King in his absence as a last chance to prove his worth for the Lannister name, only for him to disregard all of Tywin's advice and orders out of spite.

*[[Star Trek|Wesley Crusher]]. Wesley FUCKING Crusher. Originating from the same franchise as the original Mary Sue, Wesley is a very young ensign training to be an officer in Starfleet, where he's earned the admiration of many of the bridge officers. He became something of a protege to Captain Picard, who was impressed by Wesley after he showed that he had learned all the controls at the captain's chair when they first met. <s>While not morally perfect or incorruptible Wesley is as close as he can be in most cases</s> He's only moral by Gene Roddenberry's standards ''(which were messed up beyond belief, the man thought it was okay to be a prima donna director but not for children to grieve over dead loved ones, and that's not getting into his corporate shyster practices, anti-religious prejudices and sexism; seriously we're not making any of that up)'', by a normal person's, he's smug and egocentric, along with his [[Deus Ex Machina]] techno skills, which are shown off by making the rest of the crew look useless. He notably also gets the Enterprise into danger before getting it out of it, and never gets called out for it. Many people thought that he was an insufferable little shit, among them Wil Wheaton (the actor who PLAYED the guy... and coming from him, that's saying something). Wesley is even named after Gene Roddenberry, as Wesley was Gene's middle name - or to give Gene's full name, Eugene ''Wesley'' Roddenberry. That said, Wesley gets better once Roddenbery wasn't dictating the story. He does get served a healthy dose of reality in "The First Duty", wherein he lies to cover up the fact that his Academy flight team was doing a dangerous and illegal stunt that got one of them killed and pinned all the blame for the accident on the dead kid. Picard absolutely ''shreds'' him when he realizes what's going on, delivering one of the best speeches of any Trek series in the process, and Wesley faces actual consequences for his actions.

*[[Loli|Young main characters]] in crappy [[Asians|Japanese]] [[anime|animes]] and [[manga]].

*Main characters from Japanese [[Isekai]] light novels. Usually they were nerds or losers whose only interested in a particular underrated hobby/talent in their world, but became a fucking skyrim tier powerhouse once they enter the so-called mysterious otherworld. Upon entering, they became super powerful since their somewhat boring talent suddenly becomes a miracle to the other world residents thus making the main character successful. It is a trend that they will done the following to prove their superiority: wrecking Saturday cartoon villain tier antagonist (usually a reference to the main character's childhood bully) that made even [[Ahriman]] look good, instantly gained many female party members because the main character was an unpopular virgin in their original world (and no males allowed, they are yucky), using their otaku knowledge to solve every problem that was deems unsolvable in the other world (more reason that their useless hobby/talent that was deemed useless has more use in the otherworld). The other world usually consist the cliches of JRPG world: [[Medieval Stasis]], fantasy creatures like dwarves and elves, old European like hierarchy and cultures, monsters, JRPG mechanic. One of many trend of isekai protagonist is that almost all of them have tragic background featuring how they were bullied in high school or parent suicide or some typical Japanese cliches of tragic (such as truck-kun). There are also many situations where authors would made the protagonist suffer by have him stuck in a misunderstood situation, setup by the unlikable villain as an attempt to make him look good. Then again, these kind of self fulfilling characters are authors self insert whom was a victim of a depressing citizens of their society, or they thought. There are a few exceptions to this such as Ainz Ooal Gown, Kazuma Satou or Kazuya Souma who are thrown into situations that requires far more intelligence, planning and Indy Polys than your typical light novel protagonist can muster. Some try to subvert this with mixed results. ''Re:Zero'' is a deconstructive take where its protagonist (Subaru Natsuki) dies painfully over and over and ''over'' again, and eventually confesses to everyone around him that he's completely useless. (Though then he starts learning from his mistakes and becomes more competent-- but '''not''' an uber-badass.)
**[[Tl;dr]], they are [[Cringe]] incarnate. It would have been funny if it wasn't so fucking ''pathetic'', and given the sheer amount of shitty isekai, harem trash plaguing the manga industry, it should ''really'' tell you the lack of self-esteem on whoever wrote these fucking abominations of literature.

*Drift from [[Transformers]] is a particularly fascinating and useful case study, as he not only is a good example of a Sue, but is also a prime example of how a Sue can be redeemed into a legitimately [[Awesome]] character. Beginning life as the original character of a newbie writer named Shane McCarthy, Drift was effectively [[FAIL|every stereotypical Mary Sue fan character trait in a single character]]; super-skilled beyond everyone else, a former member of the bad guys turned good, always right about everything, never allowed to lose, shilled by established characters and the creators, milking his “tragic” backstory for sympathy, characters who dislike him portrayed as close-minded jerks, [[Weeaboo|shallow anime-influences]] like dual-wielding katanas, and an all-around “[[Edgy]] teenager’s idea of cool” aesthetic. But then McCarthy left the series and Drift was handed off to a new writer, James Roberts, and everything changed; Drift was completely reworked as a character and made… ''likable''. Now he was skilled but not to an extreme, his personality was given more depth (most notably rewriting his shallow anime mimicry into a samurai-esque sense of honor and spirituality), he had true flaws and made mistakes he had to suffer or atone for, characters who disliked or disagreed with him were given legitimate reason for it, and even his “villain turned hero” backstory was deconstructed by repeatedly emphasizing that he still has a “bad guy” mentality/instinct he often fights against and which contributes to his aforementioned mistakes, such as being overly-quick to resort to violence or being willing to take part in an illegal conspiracy [[Tau|for the “greater good”]]. In short, he went from an embarrassingly juvenile fan character that everybody wanted dead to a beloved member of the cast who would make many future appearances because people legitimately liked him now. Even more impressively, when his original creator Shane McCarthy returned to the character years later, he demonstrated that he himself had improved significantly as a writer, actually acknowledging and building off the work other writers did with him where most Mary Sue authors would ignore or lash out at anything that undermined their Sue. It all goes to showcase the reason that the “Bad Writer Syndrome” mentioned on the main page exists; sometimes the only thing a Mary Sue needs to not be a Mary Sue is a new writer who isn’t as unhealthily emotionally-invested in the character and has the objectivity/common sense to see what they ''need'' to be rather then what their creator ''wanted'' them to be.

*Judging from the rest of the list, [[Skub|any character you don't like.]]

===Works with more than too many of them===
*[[In Nomine]]'s Superiors may or may not qualify; if they do, they do so as a block, thus placing them here. The problem here is that each Superior is an NPC made to more or less '''be''' their entire organization (''most'' PCs report directly to at least one of them), and thus needs to be larger-than-life. Ultra high-powered NPCs plus Strong Personalities plus Needing to Show Up Frequently is a formula only in need of a small amount Bad Writing or Poor GMing to go into hardcore Suedom. On the "possibly further from Suedom" side, all the Superiors have exploitable character flaws, but the result is still an edifying example of why High Powered NPCs are a problem.

*Sonichu, made by you-know-who. To make a long article short, just about anyone who is friends with the author or from some franchise <s>s/he/it</s> they like gets to be overwhelmingly hax and unbound by the laws of morality, everyone who isn't is pretty much either nonexistent or very very evil (the latter guaranteed for any character representing someone the author has a personal beef with).

*[[Twilight]]
**[[Derp|Bella Swan]]: Though she is a pretentious, manipulative, male-dependent, self-pitying downer who takes her parents for granted and makes no time for her friends, Bella is adored by all. Her first day of school is supposedly hard for her, despite the fact that every person she meets instantly presents her with a best friend badge and/or falls in love with her. She's also clumsy EXCEPT when there's a moment where she'll die if she does something clumsy. Add being a painfully obvious author surrogate and even being the product of one of the author's dreams (SMeyer admitted that herself), "clumsy" Bella is ''the'' Mary Sue of her generation.
**[[FAIL|Edward Cullen]]: This character is the reason the popularity of vampires took a massive hit when the book came out. Possibly the most rage-inspiring aspect is he introduced the idea that vampires [[What|SPARKLE HARMLESSLY LIKE DIAMONDS IN SUNLIGHT]]! He can read minds, is nearly impossible to kill, doesn't have the vampire weakness to holy objects despite seeing himself as an abomination against God, doesn't feed off humans despite his literal bloodlust (except for criminals or "those who deserve to die"), is always fashionable, owns exotic and expensive cars, and is ridiculously rich and multi-talented. Despite being a textbook case of an emotionally abusive and controlling boyfriend to Bella, he's always treated as having the moral high ground... except when he refuses to make Bella a vampire, but that gets swept under the rug as soon as he changes his mind.
**[[Anal circumference|Jacob Black]]: A Native American werewolf and the third side of the franchise's infamous love triangle. He commits sexual assault on Bella by forcing a kiss (a line not even Edward crossed), trolls the vampires and switches sides between the werewolves and the vampires without consequence. The worst part is when he [[FATAL|falls in love with Bella's and Edward's newborn daughter because of some kind of weird werewolf pheromone thing, practicing wife husbandry on her as soon as she can walk and talk... and all the other characters are fine with this]]. The story also gushes about his looks to the point that the movie doesn't go five minutes without the character taking off his shirt and the camera focusing on his muscles.

*Warhammer unfortunately has several examples, many of them a result of Matt Ward's bad writing. They get much better in the hands of more skilled writers, or in [[If the Emperor had a Text-to-Speech Device|parodies]].
**[[Cato Sicarius]]. Seriously this guy is Mary Sue's Mary Sue. He was born to a noble house on Talassar, trained with a sword as soon as he could hold one, and was inducted into the Ultramarines. He got commendation after commendation, going from sergeant to company champion to Captain of the 2nd Company in several decades. He refined lightning assaults to near perfection and knows what to do after giving the battlefield only a quick glance. He leads a company of mini-Sues, each squad having a special title for some great feat, such as their Devastators having somehow destroyed a Titan and a tactical squad that hasn't taken a casualty in close to 100 years. He is not only captain of the 2nd Company but "Master of the Watch", "Knight Champion of Macragge", "Grand Duke of Talassar", and "High Suzerain of Ultramar". Seriously, those last two titles are [[pretend|completely made up]]. He's a complete dick, valuing glory for himself and his company over all else. He outright admits to his men that he didn't care about the planet Damnos when they were battling the Necrons over it (where he got his ass handed to him by a no-name Necron Lord). He also decided to appoint himself judge, jury, and executioner for Uriel Ventris when he broke from the Codex, even though they're the same rank and only the Chapter Master has the right to do stuff like that. Oh yeah that reminds me, to top it all off most of the chapter thinks he's next in line to be Chapter Master, instead of Captain Agemman of the first company, even though he's got much (see fuck-tons) more experience than Sicarius. Add all that to the Mary Sue-ness of being a Space Marine and being in the Ultramarines and it reaches critical levels.
*** More recent works have deconstructed and played with this: his glory-hound behaviour and massive ego have put his company at extreme risk multiple times, with his egotistical behaviour at Damnos contributing rather heavily to the thrashing the Second Company was handed by the Necrons; furthermore, he's been relegated to the effectively ceremonial role of Rowboat Girlyman's bodyguard while the Primarch in question attempts to unfuck the Imperium and train Cato to be less of a massive prick. On top of this, he's established to have some pretty severe PTSD after being lost in the Warp near the start of the Indomitus Crusade, which knocked a good deal of his former brashness out of him.
**[[Eldrad|Eldrad Ulthran]], and what's worse: he knows he is, and is a complete dick about it. Though he was recently imprisoned by his Craftworld for trying to help the Imperium and messing up Ynnead's ascension. He then joins the Ynnari after being shunned by his Craftworld.
**[[Kaldor Draigo]]. Wrote his mentor's name into Mortarion's heart without contracting Spess AIDS, or being fucking destroyed by said Primarch which despite each of those 19 (21?) being capable of rolling through a squad of Custodes without too much effort. Then he got schllupped into the Warp and somehow remains pure.
***Like Sicarius, other authors have taken steps to reduce the Sue factor of Draigo by showing him as a moderately flawed character and retconning some of the more egregiously Sue-ish moments - see the 'Placed in the hands of other authors' section of his page for examples of this.
**[[Marneus Calgar]], especially post-Ward. Killing an Avatar of Khaine by punching its chest in and not getting seriously hurt in said fight with one. An Avatar of Khaine is supposed to be as hard to kill as a Bloodthirster, something that takes a Primarch or a Bio-Titan to beat in a one-on-one fight (then again, Games Workshop loves [[Worf|worfing]] Avatars, and Space Marines are their Creator's Pet). Calgar had his limbs chopped off by the Swarmlord, which didn't kill him due to Plot Armor, and he leads the Ultramarines, themselves considered a Mary Sue chapter in a Mary Sue faction (see the Space Marine entry on this page). These are just the first few examples.
**[[Captain Matthias Ward]], I am the better Mary-Sue.
**The [[Primarch]]s <s>and their [[Warhammer High|daughters]].</s>{{BLAM|'''THOSE WORDS ARE BLASPHEMY! /tg/ can only create perfection!'''}} (To be fair, the daughters are only Sues in that they inherited their Sue traits from their fathers.)
**[[Uriel Ventris]] - despite initially coming off as a subversion of Wardian Ultramarines-are-the-best Mary Sue bullshit, he quickly devolves into [[Skub|Ultramarines are the worst unless they use the Codex to wipe their asses and act like Space Wolves]] - which is pretty much limited to - guess who? - McNeill's OC-Do-Not-Steal Special Snowflake Ventris.
** [[Iskandar Khayon]] is a pretty awesome villain, but some of the stuff he does is just unbelievable, though some of that may be because his book is actually him telling the events to his enemies while captured, so he may be lying about a lot of it to fuck with them.

*World of Warcraft:
**Kalecgos (AKA Kalec), blue dragon who can disguise himself as a human-elf hybrid; from [[World of Warcraft|World of Warcrabs]]. Ham-fistedly inserted into the Blood Elves' redemption story arc as an enabler. Later he takes over the blue dragonflight even though he's not the oldest, wisest or most powerful blue dragon, but simply because he was the only surviving named blue dragon with anything approaching a personality. Later he hooks up with Jaina Proudmoore, a powerful human mage/noblewoman/faction leader introduced in Warcraft III. She does this in spite of their vast age difference (which made her reject an Elven prince who loved her) and bad track record with lovers. Though Kalecgos later disbanded them as an organization, he's still the go-to blue dragon (despite older, more powerful ones like Azuregos and Senegos still being in the lore).
**Jarod Shadowsong, a Night Elf commander shoehorned into the setting in books "War of the Ancients" and "Wolfheart", by Richard Knaak. Brother to canon character Maiev Shadowsong, love interest to Shandris Feathermoon, - Tyrande's adopted daughter with both characters canon since WC3 (Shandris in case you don't recognize her, is that one Elf archer with a unique model present in the first two and last Night Elf missions in ''Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos'') - and the Night Elves greatest war hero after Furion and Tyrande themselves. His mere presence raises morale so much that people, to quote the book, "automatically fight harder and obey him with greater swiftness". He survived a one-on-one fight against Archimonde, a demon lord who can destroy cities single-handedly, because he suddenly decided to toy with Jarod even though time was of the essence. Said war saw various Night Elf DEMIGODS place themselves under Jarod's command! He also lacks any personality beyond humble hero and has no character flaws that effect him negatively. He spends thousands of years after the first fight against the Burning Legion resting on his laurels and doesn't show up when they invade the second time, but no-one calls Jarod out on this in-universe. On top of this, Shandris' love for him is poorly written and makes no sense. Her feelings were puppy love, and after that, Shandris had had no contact with Jarod for ''thousands of years'' until they met again during the Cataclysm. And when they met, Shandris propositioned Jarod '''at his wife's funeral'''. This bears repeating; Shandris pursued someone who she hadn't spoken to for millennia and who was married to someone else by trying to hook up him before his wife's body was even cold (and Shandris is not that kind of ignorant/thoughtless/crazy/predatory person).
**Krasus (AKA Korialstraz) a high-ranking red dragon, mainly due to the author's overuse of him, and said author is also Richard Knaak. He disguises himself as an elf, and said elf is one of the leaders of the Kirin Tor. On top of this, he's Consort/Adviser of the Dragon Queen, he might as well be the Dragon King considering how much importance Alexstraza puts on him and how few decisions she makes until after he's gone. He also gets sent back in time to partake of a historical event despite the fact HIS YOUNGER SELF WAS AROUND IN THAT TIME. He also set up another Mary Sue in Warcraft, Rhonin (NOTE; both characters were created by the same author). To be fair, Krasus is tame compared to most WoW examples listed here.
**Med'an, half human, one quarter draenei and one quarter orc. This alone should set your alarm on. Let's add that he is the son of Garona and Medivh, two quite important lore characters, with the latter being one of the most powerful mortals EVER. Not enough? He is the focus of a prophecy about who will save he world and, thanks to his mixed ancestry, he is skilled in arcane magic (ok, this quite makes sense), but also with the holy light and elements. And, obviously, he saves the world and gains his father's awesome staff and charge.
**Rhonin, human archmage of the Kirin Tor. By Richard Knaak again, Blizzard Entertainment's equivalent of [[Robin Cruddace|Robin Cruddace]]. Knaak made up a new member of the famous Windrunner family just for Rhonin to hook up with. They have half-elf kids who are blessed by dragons despite the fact they've done nothing to earn it (the player characters have done more, but they don't get anything like that; just a few trinkets that will be rendered obsolete by the next expansion), not to mention that those half-elf kids are one of the very rare examples of human-elf hybrids in WoW (the other is Arator the Redeemer, son of legendary characters all the way back in Warcraft 2 - human paladin Turalyon and elven general Alleria). Even the name Rhonin is just the title "Rōnin" (referring to a Samurai with no master during Japan's feudal period) with a few changes to anglicize the name (and, of course, the character doesn't even look Japanese). He gets sent back in time to partake in the first fight against the Burning Legion for no other reason than Knaak wanted Rhonin to be there. He does practically nothing in the game, yet everyone says he's a great hero; even then, he didn't do half the things they praise him for.
**Sylvanas Windrunner from [[World of Warcraft]] (The trend is now a bullet train into Edgytown): Started out as a Fantasy counterpart for Sarah Kerrigan, she's been turning into Fantasy Hitler/Mengele (or rather, was from the beginning). Originally a High Elf ranger in Warcraft III who is killed and turned into a Banshee by Arthas. She sets up the Undercity as a fortress/Horde-run concentration camp for Alliance captives, and has free reign of atrocities ranging from slavery to genocide. Her Royal Apothecary kidnapped innocents to experiment upon under her watch, torturing them for fun and science. While this upset some players, it's not a guarantee of Mary Sue'dom, but the problem becomes obvious as the plot advances. She was already under suspicion before the Wrathgate Incident (she knew about the plague, but not that it would be used on the Horde too), invaded Gilneas, nuked Southshore, waged a torture-filled genocidal campaign on the Humans, manipulated the Horde (and only joined them for selfish gain), built a Cult of Personality around herself, employed the Val'kyr (which even the Death Knights called her out on), resurrected those who she killed against their will despite not liking when it happened to her, shot and killed Liam Greymane then taunted his father Genn about it, attempted to steal the Scythe of Elune to enslave the Worgen to expand her personal army and made a deal with the devil to get the Val'kyr in the first place. The closest she got to any kind of punishment was Lor'thermar threatening to kill her if she raised the Horde's dead as Forsaken, stating he'd leave her to the Alliance if she tried it on their dead and calling her out on several of her actions in Mists of Pandaria - rather weaksauce given the almighty kicking they were giving Garrosh throughout that expansion pack, making him out to be evil incarnate. In Legion, after retreating from the Broken Shore, the crowning moment of Mary Suedom occurs when she ends up being named the next Warchief of the Horde with Vol'jin's dying words, followed by her abandoning the fight against the Burning Legion for a way to cheat death, and everyone in the Horde is okay with this. In the next expansion, the Horde forced the Night Elves out of Kalimdor in the War of Thorns, with Sylvanas pulling an Arthas by forcing the dying commander to watch her burn Teldrassil, an action worse than Garrosh's Bombing of Theramore because Theramore was a military target while the Night Elves had surrendered and Teldrassil was inhabited only by non-combatants. The writers give her plot armor by having "never forsake honor" Saurfang save her life by dealing a dishonorable blow to her opponent. As Sylvanas' atrocities grow barely anyone from the Horde turns against her, and writers pull new powers out of their asses for her culminating in her one-shotting Saurfang and soloing Lich King Bolvar and a horde of undead. The Mary Sue reason on top of all this? She never suffers any ''(literally, ANY)'' setback except Greymane ruining her Val'kyr agenda. All her atrocities and horrors are ignored or turned into heroism, and what's worse, she automatically pulls out the next phase of her agenda out of her ass like some Pentagon's high command after snorting a line of coke each. Her Forsaken, despite horrendous losses and ban on raising unwilling dead, somehow destroys everything with a shred of goodness around her...only for her to get raised to Warchief status like some spoiled prepubescent princess. This issue is compounded by the fact that Sylvanas has a very vocal fanbase and she's the Creator's Pet of at least three of Warcraft's dev team, lead quest writer David Kosak, director Steve Danuser and developer Travis Day (who once insisted [[Skub|she's not evil and just wants to protect the Horde]]). Even with the Shadowlands expansion having Sylvanas as a major villain helping the BBEG, they pull back by shoehorning in a "split soul" plot device to pave the way for her redemption.
**Thrall, the (in)famous Orc Warchief from ''[[Warcraft]]''. Started out cool in WC3 as an Orc orphan raised in a human internment camp who escaped with help from a friend, he led the Orcs because he was the former Warchief's son and a powerful but not story-breaking shaman. By having his forces fight alongside the trolls and Tauren and save them from their enemies he made allies. Though he fucked up by sending Grommash to collect resources from Ashenvale (antagonizing the Night Elves, giving the demons an opportunity to corrupt the Orcs and leading to the death of a demigod who would've been a great help against the Burning Legion), with a lot of help from some allies and another demi-god he sets things right and they kick the Burning Legion's demonic asses off of Azeroth. He still holds the line against threats and tries to make peace, but he's a bit too forgiving of trouble-makers in the Horde (see Sylvanas above and Garrosh below). In the Cataclysm expansion for World of Warcramps, he became Azeroth's premiere shaman and leader of half the world while appointing the <s>[[Skub|VERY CONTROVERSIAL]]</s> <s>balls to the wall violent and universally hated</s> patriotic warmonger Garrosh Hellscream as Warchief of the Horde; despite the protests of several others ''including Garrosh himself'' (who was uncertain he could handle the responsibility of such a role at the time). Takes over as Aspect of Earth from a borderline demigod, and even deals a crippling blow to him when he's empowered by the Old Gods. Even people that were fans of Thrall during Warcraft III have started to get sick of him.
*** The writers appear to have realized what kind of monster they unleashed in Cataclysm and every expansion since has given him a kicking in some way. In Mists of Pandaria Garrosh kicks his ass just before his final fight with the players. In Warlords of Draenor he gets relegated to the sidelines and has [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHwiEbXqh3k another fight with Garrosh], which features a memetastic sequence in which Garrosh pummels his dumb ass while listing his failures. He wins the fight only by cheating and using his shaman powers, and Legion (the expansion) reveals the Elemental Spirits have nerfed him for his blatant haxxing. Even when he begins getting his powers back, you only see that happen if you're a shaman, and he ends up becoming your bitch. Even his big fancy Doomhammer gets misplaced so it can become an Artifact weapon for Enhancement shamans.

*Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" had the most Mary Sues before the phrase existed. In fact her garbage is old enough that the term Mary Sue could be replaced by the name of any one of her characters and it wouldn't change the meaning at all. John Galt<ref>"Eventually, the question you ask stops being 'Who is John Galt?' and becomes 'When will John Galt shut up?'", to quote one common criticism of Galt's famous 56 page speech.</ref>, Dagny Taggart and most of the cast, which figures given her literature's reputation for being barely-disguised political sermon. Galt frequently has the narrative grind to a halt in order to focus on his inane views, somehow single-handedly grinds the economy to a halt by founding a libertarian utopia where no "communists" can hold him or other similar geniuses back, and is shilled as the only sane man after the rest of the world becomes a dystopic hellhole without said "genius". Then there's the primary female character, a wannabe railroad tycoon trying to get a new train line built despite the fact that "evil socialists" can't keep them running without crashing every few hours because of mean ol' unions and regulations oppressing the poor upper class. Said woman somehow manages to bed Hank Rearden, local inventor of a metal alloy supposedly even stronger than steel called Rearden Metal. Yes, just drips with creativity, don't it? It's telling that the Bioshock series, based off her work, is far better received and a more realistic depiction, generally due to taking the prospect of a single man basically playing God to its logical conclusion (I.E. another dystopia but now with blackjack and hookers).
**Nearly all of her works have blatant Mary Sues in them. Best not to bother with a full list because her tree wasting dysentery would take up over half the page. It explains a lot about her psyche that her ideal man was a serial murderer who kidnapped, raped and dismembered young girls.

==Mary Sue Races==
While not every member of a race is a Mary Sue, [[Chakat|with one or two exceptions]], sometimes whole races are considered Mary Sues because they have huge amounts of plot armor and are idealized beyond reason. They were put here as the Mary Sue list was originally conceived for characters. Also, please list them in alphabetical order.

* Although some might find this as [[Skub|arguable]], the characteristics describing the Asari race in [[Bioware|Mass Effect]] are blatantly Mary-Sue. Although not every Asari is a Mary Sue (though some are), when it comes to the general race as a whole, oh boy does their 'Sueness' reach Chakat levels. Examples on what makes them a Mary Sue includes having the second longest lifespan behind the Krogan (over 1000 years, plus they lack the Krogan's violent nature which can easily waste their long lifespans), all of them are biotic users, every one in the game is intelligent, founders of the council, considered sexy by many other species despite being a monogendered species (even Salarians, who lack a sex drive and mate out of necessity, are shown to be attracted to them), and are deliberately oversexualised by the developers so they can be [[Rule 34|Rule 34'ed to death]]. Their race as a whole is portrayed as peace-loving hippies, the best diplomats, the most respected species in the galaxy as well as having a serious case of "Holier/Morally Superior then thou" attitude. Their ship the "Destiny Ascension" is the largest and most powerful ship in the Citadel fleet and their ships perversely resemble a lady's privates because you know they all look like "wominz". Thessia, their homeworld, is regarded as the "jewel" of the galaxy (instead of the fucking Citadel) as well as having the largest amount of Eezo which partially explains how their entire race is biotics. Any asari can 'Read' most people's minds and inner-thoughts with near complete-accuracy, though only if that person agrees to it (they can literally mindfuck you). Furthermore with their way of reproduction, since they are monogendered (Meaning they're all female) a lot of newcomers in Mass Effect start to scratch their heads on how they manage to get each other pregnant without any physical evidence of having a dick (Although one of the hypothesis is that they might actually screw around with the local fauna AKA Bestiality). However the fluff states this as Parthenogenesis, for those that don't know what it is, think of them as chickens....which is actually hilarious if you seriously put the comparison in context. Another odd thing about their reproduction is that somehow the Asari have the capability of getting pregnant from just about '''''Anyone'''''. [[Chakat|Do those traits sound fucking familiar to you?]] So all in all, not only are they a holy (unholy?) fusion of a smurf, elf and a monster girl, but they also commit in sweaty Lesbian/Bestiality/Xenoality orgies with almost everyone, turning the Asari race into nothing more then a giant Whorehouse for Aliens and Humans to fap in a hundred dozen ways and yet they are still ''okay'' with that....<s>Slaneesh approve of this!</s> {{BLAM|'''''BLAM! BLAM! DOUBLE HERESY!'''''}} But to be fair, at least Asari aren't [[Avatar|furries]] or physical [[Chakat|hermaphrodites]].
** Amusingly enough, the third game reveals that the only reason Asari are so much more advanced than the other races is because the Protheans (the super-advanced precursor race) were deliberately manipulating them and sneaking tech to them in their ancient history in order to give them a boost (such as genetically engineering them to be a race of skilled biotics and [[STC|leaving instruction manuals on how to create all sorts of advanced technology and deal with the other races in their "beacons"]]). The hope was that if they were given enough a headstart, the Asari would be able to unite and lead the other races to victory against the Reapers (in other words, they were deliberately ''trying'' to make the Asari Mary Sues in order to give the next cycle an advantage over the Reapers). Instead the Asari government kept that knowledge to themselves and used it to make their race the most powerful in the galaxy. When the Reapers showed up, the Asari leadership buried their heads in the sand on their homeworld like the smurf elf pussies they are, leaving the other races to fend for themselves, then promptly got their asses kicked by the Reapers (Which they probably deserved it for being such [[Eldar|self-righteous and selfish cockbags]]). Perhaps one of the few instances of a Mary Sue being both invoked and subverted. And then humanity steps up and saves the day, because [[Humanity Fuck Yeah|of course we do]].

*[[Angry Marines]]. When was the last time YOU heard of an Angry Marine LOSING? Thought no-{{BLAM}}
{{BLAM|+The current author has been executed by the Inquisition to prevent the total destruction of the Imperium of Man by Angry Marines. Thank you and have a nice day.+}}

* The Draka, once human, then Posthuman slaver empire from the Domination Series by S.M Stirling, collapsing the "Bullying, slaving, torture-happy, heartless Karma Houdini asshole who is the channelized catharsis of the author rather than genuine art." shtick into a black hole the size of the galaxy. South African British colony turns into a nation of literal "[[Drow]] in human skin" when due to (mis)fortune, every losing side from worldwide wars against tyranny gets exiled to Drakia, the British colony named after Francis Drake. Turning chattel slavery into a race-wide, airtight regulated franchise in the case of blacks, they exploit entire Africa by taking the colonies belonging to the enemies of British people. Unifying in a Spartan way of life, completely shedding any morality in the case of slave control, eventually Draka Dominion declares independence from the British Crown, and turns entire Africa into a mega plantation with industrial giants enticed by obscene gold&diamond handouts exploited from Africa. The Draka then adopt Nietzschean ideals, and declare every non-Draka a slave, or a potential slave. Somehow the First World War happens anyway despite massive divergences, and Draka overrun the dying Ottoman Empire, local Turks, after a brief "enserfment" finding great joy in new and better slave soldier living standards ([[/pol/|being able to rape young white captive Finnish boys seems a source of joy for a moustached swarthy Turk]] [[FAIL|whose name and appearance IRL was one of the last good politicians in Turkey]].). When the second World War starts ([[Wat|with a blond and one-eyed Hitler]]) the Draka start turning white people into slaves starting from Italy with approval of Hitler and employ black slave soldiers who are given ample living standards and items with free rape of anyone that is captured.
** This (Post-World War 2) is where the story turns from an [[Edgy]] /pol/-fanfic to pants-on-head retarded FAPfic. Though the series display a very detailed alternate history AND technological evolution (steamer cars phased out far later than combustion engine driven ones due to efficiency and lack of fuel corrosive-resistant metal research), the Draka's endless S&M laden plantation slave bitch fantasy hits overdrive and they simultaneously conquer Russia, Europe minus Britain, and the entirety of CHINA with black soldiers and their white masters that were, mind you, from an Africa that wasn't overpopulated but ecologically protected. They do not lose one, ONE battle while rampaging and raping and enslaving. Their methods are extremely savage: impalement and rape are regular actions at every resistance, and the black soldiers can take out any psychosis forming from mass atrocities on other slaves back home, every capture tortured until completely broken before being enslaved. Their research facilities have *zero* ethics, using up millions of humans in torturous experiments to develop fantastic drugs, bioweapons and medications since, well, their citizens are drilled from age 2 to 18 with a Nietzsche-on-crack ideology to circumvent a sudden case of conscience to heart. Eventually they change the Draka Citizen DNA to that of an immortal superhuman species, destroy the rest of non-Draka armies with [[/pol/|weaponized AIDS]] and make all slaves into docile abhumans and take over the rest of the world, rape all the women and men, destroy every monument and cultural heritage not belonging to them, turn the USA into a hunting reserve to hunt humans like animals (and eat them sometimes- AND make paintings, artworks and monuments ''celebrating'' the rape and slavery of non-Draka of all ethnicities). Then the Draka expand into alternate universes, infiltrating our world and its parallel versions and start taking them over as well and enjoying immortal, eternal exploitation of everyone everywhere forever. What the entire US and UK plus the rest of Asia, Japan, Southeast Asia does is to create an Alliance that walks on eggshells and fucks up every espionage action against the Draka, loses every battle and ends up escaping to Alpha Centauri. S.M Stirling eventually writes a sequel where an alternate Earth has the [[Humanity's_Last_Stand|human Alliance win for a change]], but the damage is already done. We are graced with the endless plantation BDSM fetish fantasy of bisexual, blonde, white, transhuman, constantly horny blue-eyed men and women fucking their farm slaves of either gender and make them work their asses off after breaking them in of every little inch of their personalities. A particularly nasty lesbian Draka is Stirling's Creator Pet: she manages to capture the sister of an American soldier who killed her lover and makes her a slave. She tortures her with a mental chip for years to destroy her brain, forcing her to bear her lover's clone children, and rapes her mentally, and eventually, physically. And her side wins the war, the girl escapes an old ruined wreck into space(albeit back to her brother), and our bitch spends her long, long life to torture and kill surviving Alliance holdouts for fun, happily raping, killing and torturing ever after. Seriously, even Kosak had more of a shred of decency, Stirling. The Draka's only saving grace is that every Draka must devote several hours of their time every day to be on top physical condition by ''law'' and always earn their place, as well as senseless slave abuse is seen as a character sickness.
*** And then, since only another suevilization can stop them at this point, they run into The Culture. The End. (well, we can dream, right?)
**** [[Rape|Or the Xeelee]].
***** Especially the Xeelee. We'd even settle for the Qax.

* The [[Drow]] from [[Drowtales]]. Their Mary Sue factor isn't even funny. Shaped by several inputs from several authors, their Drow are the best example of how too many cooks spoil the broth as well as the main author's high school misanthrophy hitting overdrive. The Drowtales' Drow are practically immortal, have regenerating limbs, never menstruate, possess metals that are impenetrable to other sentient beings and virtually twice as big and a thousand times as powerful as other races to the point of a few drow kids on an adventure can butcher a city with innocents to save their friend who was about to be killed for its blood, since humans, hunted and enslaved for centuries, are desperate to the point of killing elves for their blood just to have an edge. Their houses in underworld have all the modern technology and some futuristic things to boot complete with giant walkers and submarines, modern machinery, PARTICLE RIFLES and magitech street lights, but somehow they need human and other races as slaves and this need is shown as just and necessary right at the beginning with the "good" faction's "surface raiders" murdering an entire village and taking women and children to slave markets because the poor widdle drow need slaves and "[[Wat|It's just their unique morality]]". And the way the webcomic shows them as tragic beings is the cherry on top: I didn't know it was so tragic and sad when the humans counterattack to save their raided relatives from your homes, locked in to be sold as slaves.

* ALL [[Chakat|Chakats!]] The entire fucking race are distilled and purified Mary Sues, sometimes warping stories they are barely even mentioned in. Not just [[monstergirls|feline-centaur]] [[/d/|dick-girls]](Sick Fucks), they're also each master psionicists with faster-than-light mind-reading, able to cure deep neurotic complexes with a good deep dickin', strongest and most stable form of 'Taurs', considered as the most "beautiful thing in the universe" despite looking exactly like lions with the fact that they have dicks, morally perfect to the extreme, nobody technically hates them, their breast milk can turn the most feeble human into mini-Arnold Schwarzeneggers and every non-Chakats seem to have a unnatural and unhealthy lifestyle on trying to "Do it" with them, despite the fact that there are hundreds of ''other'' Catgirls outside of this furfag heresy, that are more attractive, cuter and prettier then them with the added benefit that they are actually female, [[HERESY|not hermaphrodite abominations]].

* [[Elf|Elves]] are often portrayed this way in fiction (Look above at Drowtales), though there are exceptions and it's becoming rarer for elves to be portrayed as Mary Sues. A lot of their sueness comes from how idealized they are. They're always beautiful, sometimes even without making an effort, either immortal or have very long lifespans and can only die from violence. They're often considered to have the moral high ground yet also be condescending to the younger races, but the elves contempt kept getting justified in some stories. Some have the natural ability to make anything beautiful from even the most base materials, naturally have great magical ability, and are often favored by their gods. However, there are evil elves in fiction and some elves who are morally good without being Mary Sues. Then there are curvy anime rapebait elves (often dark elves) who get high on male smells and secretions and turn into thicc fuckdolls taking massive amounts of dicking.
** This depiction usually comes from elves as shown in The Lord of the Rings, which is coincidental as it was the end of the Third age and all the bad elves had long since died off, leaving only the wise and good-hearted ones (like Galadriel). A read of The Silmarillion (the heroic First age where elves and magic were strong forces in the world and loads of [[Awesome]] shit happened) will prove quite pointedly that elves in this setting could be just as flawed, stubborn and downright immoral as humans could. Fëanor for instance. And how. He may have been gifted and intelligent even by the standards of elves, but he was also an obnoxious, arrogant kinslayer with a creepy attraction to his niece's golden hair, and he didn't give two shits about anybody else's concept of morality up to the Maiar themselves, he just insisted single-mindedly on getting his way until it got him pile-drivered to death by balrogs.
** Elves from Eragon are probably the worst example of Mary Sue elves yet. Elves from Eragon move so fast that humans are incapable of tracking their movements, stronger than humans to the point "even the weakest (elf) can easily overpower (a human)" (actual book quote), anything they make even from the most base materials is beautiful and they can run over a hundred miles an hour plus maintain that pace for hours on end. Character wise they're all atheists and vegetarians who are treated as morally and spiritually correct in all regards and there are just one or two evil elves in the story or the background lore. They can destroy entire human armies in minutes yet are somehow on the losing end of a war and have to hide in a forest on the edge of the map, are one of only two races on the planet capable of riding dragons, the other being humans (who literally turn into elves when they start riding the dragon plus elves were the first), are naturally connected to magic to such a level that an elven child can surpass an adult human who has spent their entire life studying magic and, apparently, were the second race in existence, only predated by dragons.

*[[Doctor Who|Whoverse Humanity]] takes this up to a 100 million in this case. Depending on the timeline, Humanity not only manage to become the dominant ruler of the multi-galaxy not once, but [[What|'''Five Fucking Times!''']] Without any indication on how they manage to conquer the Galaxy, thriving with hostile Aliens that could LOLStomp the Necrons, Eldar, Orks, Tau, Tyranid, Chaos in all it's forms and the Imperium ''combined''. Furthermore not only are they one of the [[Imperium of Man|most numerous species in the Universe,]] but also one of the most adaptable and longest lasting race, as seen when they are one of the [[Grimdark|few species still alive near the end of the fucking Universe.]] To give you an idea on how fucking ludicrous Humanity got within Doctor Who, in just 500 years from present day, Humanity was already a major force in the Galaxy ([[Star Trek|Compare this to most Sci-Fi timelines]] [[Bioware|where Humanity either just started to explore their surroundings]] [[Halo|or already establish a small and insignificant area]]), as well as having weapons that could make [[Strike Legion]] seem useless in comparison, and when you take note on how short the timeline distance is between the present day and the end of the Universe, it just makes you say to yourself....the Fuck? Compare this to say [[Star Wars]] in which they have the excuse of not knowing how long Humanity has been space traveling, or [[WH40K]] where the thousands of years gap of slow progress before the Warp Drive was invented seem much more plausible then this absurd scenario. You know Humanity is a Mary Sue when even the near-death of the Universe can't kill them off....until a certain Dues Ex Machina appeared. To be fair, they only gain their Sueness momentum when a certain Time Lord keep on foiling the plans of countless Aliens attempting to conquer and crush humanity in various stages in time; either that or because the Doctor has a unusually unhealthy Humanophile fetish. They are probably one of the few examples of a "Accidental Mary Sue", in which the Doctor, with his fancy Time gizmos and intellect, unintentionally guided Humanity to such power levels by either saving their asses from certain doom or altering the timeline so they won't fuck up, due to his love of Humans. Granted Whoverse Humanity is definitely far from morally perfect (A substantial amount of Whoverse villains are Humans and the multiple Human Empires itself are morally questionable at best. The Timelords themselves are hardly better than the Daleks at times.), the main point of contention is how influentially powerful they are for such a young race while at the same time, disregarding other more ancient and more powerful races (Silurian, Cybermen, Sontarian, Ice Warriors, etc) that should be the one having more galactic screen time and hegemony then them.
**In this case, Whoverse humanity's Mary Sueness can't really be blamed on any one author. It's mostly the result of sheer age causing increasingly severe continuity snarls and the unwillingness of newer writers to change or retcon forty year old fluff.

* Dwarves as seen in the Artemis Fowl series. While virtually all dwarven exploits described are performed by one Mulch Diggums, most of his Mary Sueness is excused as "dwarven racial talents." His saliva can harden into a glowing substance that's strong enough to resist high speed impacts, he can fart hurricanes and shit cannonballs, he can dig a self sealing tunnel through any earth-like substance as fast as a man can run, drink water with his pores, use said pores like suction cups if he's thirsty, hear better than a stethoscope, and has tremorsense to at least a hundred feet. Dwarves are also described as having access to the fairy magic (Common uses include instant healing, invisibility, and mid-grade mind control), but Mulch gave that up to steal things instead. This despite no readily apparent level adjustment, nor any mention of useful powers before those same powers are necessary, puts this race quite firmly in this category.

* LeShay are a race that appeared as a monster in the D&D 3th edition book [[Epic Level Handbook]] and have been completely forgotten about since then like most of what was in that book. They are described as being to elves what elves are to humans only more so. That sentence alone should immediately set off red flags. LeShay are extremely powerful immortals resembling albino elves who are survivors from a civilization that was erased from history. Whoever it was that came up with this race (some of us blame Raymond Feist, for the Valheru) may even have intended for them to be ''anti''-Sues, to foil the elves. As such the concept is defensible, but they probably would have ended up as Mary Sues if any bad writers had gotten a hold of them. Bad writers like Feist.

* The Mandalorians in the Star Wars Expanded Universe, depending on who's writing them. While good under the correct writers, under some of the bad ones (coughcoughKarenTravisscoughcough), they compete with badly written expanded universe Jedi and Sith for the position of Star Wars' Ultrasmurfs. In the pre-Disney expanded universe, ALL Mandos are elite warrior mercenaries, skilled enough to take out heavily armed enemies with their bare hands and usually packing enough firepower to level a building. They're so badass, in fact, that they're known to hunt Jedi for fucking sport because they're the only thing that'll give them a real challenge. Experienced Jedi hunters can be good enough to fight them head on despite all their Force powers and saber swinging because they have the right gear and experience to counter it. Bear in mind that Mandos do not use the Force in any way. Karen Traviss also writes them with the Mary Sue trait of always being right and people agreeing with them for things they call the Jedi out for that they didn't even do, like creating the clone army (one Jedi who wasn't acting on orders from the council requested that, under the manipulations of Palpatine, and it was him and the Senate who ordered the clones to fight), and generally makes them out to be the pinnacle of civilization despite being warmongers with a history of allying with the Sith and trying to conquer the galaxy themselves. One of the best things to come out of Disney buying Star Wars was the fact that the people in charge of the new canon scrapped pretty much all of Traviss' lore, whereupon she flounced off to go ruin the Halo EU and they got down to creating a more three-dimensional and complex society.
** The most famous Mandalorian, Boba Fett, generally avoids becoming this trope and is just a plain badass (as a bonus he rarely if ever engages in the dick-stroking egomania of Traviss's Mandies), but under bad writers his badassitude can push into this. His father Jango Fett follows this same idea; in fact his origin story partly involves his old merc group of Mandalorians getting slaughtered by a group of Jedi in a moment that reads sort of like "fuck you Karen Traviss". Sure, Jango kills six Jedi with his bare hands in that massacre, but the Jedi he killed were not decades old masters and he is (as an individual) supposed to be that good. The fact that he managed that made Palpatine choose him as the Clone Army template donor.
** And now we have the Mandalorian With No Name (until they ruined that joke by giving him one), who has some Sueish traits; he's an excellent bounty hunter and a skilled gunfighter who rarely loses a duel, he's good enough at diplomacy to negotiate with ''Tusken Raiders'', he has a near-full suit of rare and indestructible beskar armour, and pretty much everyone he meets takes a liking to him, even his enemies. That said, he also has a number of flaws: he was raised in an extremist splinter faction that is to normal Mando society what the [[Cult of the Redemption]] are to regular believers in the [[Imperial Creed]], doesn't always think through the consequences of his actions, is constantly hustling for jobs just to scrape by, and occasionally makes some serious mistakes. He also tends to be at a disadvantage in straight-up fights and has to rely on stealth, misdirection, and ambush tactics, rather than soloing entire stormtrooper platoons in the open with a dull knife like Traviss would undoubtedly have had him doing. He is also most definately '''not''' shown to be a match for Jedi, when got into a scuffle with Ahsoka Tano he lost very badly and only survived by letting her know he actually just needed her help with something, and when Luke Skywalker showed up at the end of the season he wasted a platoon of [[Terminator| Dark Troopers]] while our hero could barely handle one. All in all, he's pretty much the complete opposite of a Traviss Mando, and that is a good thing.

* [[Avatar|All Na'vi]], the blue-skinned eco-humping gobshites.
** Or are they? Without excessive human help (one of them warned the entire planet of what the space humans were capable of) they would have gone the way of countless human indigenous peoples...

* Smurfs. They're portrayed as a peace-loving, quasi-communist society who always come out on top in their primary conflict with an evil wizard family and are idealized to the point of ridiculousness. They're also friends with animals and never have to worry about being eaten even though they're the size of large mice. [[Skub|Then ''again'']], most of the other conflicts they encounter are usually due to one or more of their clan fucking something up in accordance with their [[Derp|singular personality trait]], and overall they seem collectively naive about things to the point of gullibility. Said approach is likely designed to promote the usual aesop of teamwork and the importance of family, so it could be far worse.

* [[Twilight|Vampires in a certain book series]]. Even though they were as gay as fuck (which damaged the reputation of actual vampires).
** [[Vampire]]s in general started falling in modern years due to their weaknesses being forgotten or ignored by untalented authors. They have often been portrayed by such writers as immortal monsters that are top-tier magic users, skilled at all martial arts and forms of killing, master scholars with libraries that would put Alexandria to shame, incredibly attractive and charismatic, and living in huge castles while commanding other monsters like they were their servants or slaves, making them the Elves of the monster world by that definition. Initially in novels like Bram Stoker's Dracula, vampires had notable weaknesses including regularly drinking the blood of many human victims to stay young and powerful, but later writers dropped this in favor of making vampires straight up immortal. Seriously, some writers even give them plot armor to get past their weaknesses of holy objects, divine power or sunlight (though the former usually depends on the author's attitude towards religion).
** [[Tremere|Clan Tremere]] (a.k.a. "Tremary Sues") from the ''[[Vampire: The Masquerade]]'' [[RPG|ttRPG game]] are an entire clan of Mary Sues as they were [[Mark Rein·Hagen|the author]]'s pet mages from his previous ''[[Ars Magica]]'' game. Tremary Sues enjoy the narrative absurdity of holding a near-monopoly on vampiric thaumaturgy, despite the fact that older vampiric clans had millennia to perfect thaumaturgy (and many other arts that can blow the Tremere out of the water) before the first Tremere was ever born.
** Probably one of the best exceptions of this is Count Orlock from the classic silent film ''Nosferatu''. Whereas nowadays vampires get the treatment of being oh-so-sexy, suave, charismatic, pitiable creatures whose lives suck despite being immortal, undead bloodsuckers, Orlok is just a hideous predatory monster out to drink blood. No charisma, no suave, nothing to pity, nothing to feel empathy for. In short, straight-ahead horror vampires done completely right.
** By contrast, the vampires of the House of Night series by mother and daughter team P. C. and Kristen Cast are far worse examples than even Twilight's bastardization. To clarify, vampires worship the goddess Nyx who is the only real goddess, are selected by a tracker when they are a human teen, are the poor, oppressed minorities of the world even though literally almost every famous person in human history was a vampire, will become utterly handsome and beautiful unless they reject the Change in which case they are afforded no sympathy as they die due to events outside their control, every negative stereotype is because of stupid humans, they can never do anything bad... in short, [[Fail|vampires done so badly that Twilight is more believable as good vampire literature]]. Seriously.
** Higher Vampires from [[The_Witcher|Witcher]] are as sueish as they get around here. Beside the point of being intellectually and spiritually superior to pretty much anybody (and we have immortal elves here), and relatively young ones fast and agile enough to go toe-to-toe with the best witchers that exist, they have NO weaknesses. Crosses, godly idols, other divine aspects? Nada. Drinking blood to live? Not even close, you can grab a <s>human</s>beer with some boys, but there's no neeed for it. Sunlight? Try again. Silver? NO. They are as much suspectible to silver like, say, humans are suspectible to paper swords. Cue in their "racial" power to become stronger and faster the older they get, shapeshifting, mistyfying (as in turning to mist) and unique superpowers, refined throught their lifetime, ranging from coming in handy once in a while better alchemy to [[wat|mind controlling entire kingdom's worth of lesser vampires as on-wish army]], with even that just being stated to be a "unique" power, not a really "powerful" one. The worst is when you realize they are not even "magical beings" by any degree, just a [[Urien_Rakarth|vaguely human-shaped collective of individual living cells just so happened to work together for the time being]], granting them mind-blowing regeneration - nothing, NOTHING, can kill higher vampire but another higher vampire, even if regenerating from a melted puddle of blood would take some decades, they will return. One would start to wonder why they did not steamroll through entire continent and make it their own, to stop hiding and openly search for a way to return to their home world - as almost all higher vampires see themselves superior to other races, and majority would not bat an eye for this [[/pol/|final solution]] - but this just adds to their sueness-good-for-the-sake-of-plot aspect.

* [[Doobies]] describe themselves this way. Aside from their crazed fans, it is obvious to everyone else that they aren't.

* Saiyans from Dragonball are practically born more powerful than any human could ever be, get exceptionally stronger every time they almost die (the words that are actually used to describe it), can literally become strong enough to eclipse actual gods with little effort and have more asspulls and deus ex machinas than any other race on this list. A twenty-three-year-old Saiyan can destroy an entire place with a single movement in the anime, and the manga implies that a Saiyan can do it with a finger before the first manga even concludes.

*The Forerunners from Halo easily fit the bill of being Mary Sues. For one, the Forerunners were created by actual no holds barred Gods who could rewrite time and space with little to no effort. These Gods, known as the Precursors (real original), thought the Forerunners were such hot shit that they decided to make them the new gods of the universe before they moved onto the next one, despite the Forerunners having achieved nothing of note yet. But then the gods changed their minds and decided to make humanity the new gods of the universe. The Forerunners responded by turning on their guns and literally murdering actual gods with no effort. The remaining gods ran off in a panic and turned to dust, later degenerating into the Flood. Then the Forerunners pulled a bunch of crazy shit like building ships that could ROFLstomp everything in Warhammer with minimal effort and creating an AI so advanced it could simulate entire universes in microseconds. Then they somehow got wiped out by the Flood.
**The Forerunner's main enemy, the Flood, are similarly sueish, if not more so. While it is dubious if you can call the Flood a race or a single organism, it is undoubtedly completely OP, to the point of it being ridiculous. For one, they are quite literally the degenerate (ergo inferior) offspring of the Precursors, but they are somehow better than them in every way. They can infect time and space just by existing for long enough, are completely unbeatable, incurable, and can literally infect all life in the universe, including purely mechanical technology somehow, despite that not being how biology works. They are also capable of convincing AI that was programmed with the simple purpose of protecting all life from being infected by the Flood to join them by simply talking to them, can convince an entire group of human scientists to kill themselves just by saying a single sentence, and can never be defeated as 'they will always return'.

*[[All Tomorrows|The Qu]] from All Tomorrows are an egregious example of “Tell not Show” in this list, as they overpower the future humanity, [[what|even though they have technology capable of destroying star systems and many other things that could be beyond our imagination.]] It is never explained how they managed to defeat the Star People, nor why they would turn them into the fucked up abominations for the rest of the story. Well, they ''kind of'' say their philosophy is one about being gods, that other lifeforms are nothing but toys to play with, and humanity was unfortunately in their path. So for millions years, they turn most humans into twisted mockeries of their former selves, sometimes becoming literal toilets for the bloody things! So despite being an all-powerful race capable of modifying life to remove their sentience, they had the enlightened intelligence to create a race that [[/d/|communicates by literally shitting on each other.]]
**Can somewhat be considered averted in the end when it is said that they were defeated by a union of galaxies who had enough of their shit. This is handwaved even more poorly, with little explanation to how it happened or if the Qu were truly rendered extinct. For most of the book, [[rage|they get away with their literal crimes against humanity, and it’s implied that they’ve done it to more species than just us.]]

== Mary Suetopias ==

As mentioned in the main article, there are some cases of entire civilizations getting the "Mary Sue" label with some justice. Here are a few.

* The Draka, before they become a species, are usually held to be a fairly strong example of a Villian Suetopia. See above in Mary Sue Races for more.
* Anarchist habitats in [[Eclipse Phase]]. To quote TVTropes, they "are apparently flawless societies where robots and nanofabricators provide for everyone, crime is virtually non-existent due to surveillance sensors everywhere and well-armed populaces, and there's no shortage of spare bodies like there is in the Transitional Economies."
* Aldis, from [[Blue Rose]], has this accusation thrown at it, with some justification.
* The various civilizations of Ayn Rand's science fiction are either Mary Suetopias or Villain Suetopias. No inbetween.

* [[Ultramar]]. Need more be said?


There are some "special cases" (parodies, twists, and deconstructions), that are worth mentioning:

* Ursula K. LeGuin's "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" is... odd. Go read it if you want more, because it's ''very'' short. 
* Rapture and Columbia from the Bioshock series are "functionalist" Suetopias: Because the games are about killing lots and lots of dudes, you need to have those dudes be crazy or assholes or both. Rapture under Andrew Ryan could actually be interpreted as a criticism of Ayn Rand's Suetopias by showing how they will go wrong in a less ideal world, while Rapture after Sofia Lamb's takeover is an equally scathing deconstructive critique of collectivist Suetopias. Columbia, meanwhile, is a very obvious attack on ultranationalism, while also serving as a demonstration that even the so-called "good old days" often had negative aspects to them.
* The original "Utopia" by Thomas More is interesting, in that it somewhat parodies the concept before it existed. To provide two examples, "Utopia" is a pun on ''eutopia''-"good place", and ''outopia''-"no place", and the frame story narrator's name translates as "Peddler of Nonsense". Yes, this means that the man who literally coined the term Utopia immediately considered it wishful fantasy.
* Mordent, from [[Ravenloft]], has a somewhat interesting twist. Its Darklord focuses more on Ghosts than on the living, so the living aren't the focus of the horror, and as such, for Ravenloft, it's a relative Utopia ''for the living''. Once you die there, however...
* Kurt Vonnegut's "Harrison Bergeron" is widely interpreted as a parody of such works.
* The Federation of [[Star Trek]] seems like a Mary Suetopia on the surface. However because the show was initially focused on morality stories the "Insane Admiral" trope crops up every now and then, showing some leaks beneath the surface. In latter seasons of TNG and all Deep Space Nine those leaks become full blown cracks, with the Maquis and the consequences of the Dominion War. Captain Sisko even rants about this a few times during the show. Earth in Star Trek is practically a paradise compared to most other planets in the galaxy, and thus "It's easy to be a saint in paradise." With examples such as the Federation spy agency Section 31 engineering a virus to use on The Dominion's Founders (aka rulers) or Sisko himself collaborating with a former Cardassian spy/assassin to bring the Romulans into the war via a ''massive'' fraud.
** What some people forget is that the episodes from the perspective of the characters, take anywhere from hours to days and even longer during multi-episode storylines. Spending weeks to get the solution shown during the final ten minutes or exhausting all other options to take a random shot in the dark that solves the current problem. Usually without pulling it out of the writers collective asses or pressing the reset button.(Something that happened often enough on Voyager and Enterprise to an unrealistic degree that viewers started hating them.)
* Wakanda, from [[Marvel Comics]] wasn't this originally - it was just an African nation that avoided getting buttfucked during the Scramble for Africa and which had instituted a policy of sending its best and brightest abroad to learn at the most advanced foreign schools before returning to share what they learned with their people, thus keeping it well ahead of most other African nations and on par with the most civilized "first world" nations. They still had Vibranium as an ace up their sleeves, but they were more "America during the Atomic Energy race... if America had the world's only known supply of fissile material". It was subsequently retconned that the presence of Vibranium meant that Wakanda was centuries ahead of the world technologically and always had been. Different writers have applied differing levels of Sue-ishness to Wakanda on this basis, ranging from making them the typical "smug utopians" to presenting them as a technologically advanced nation that's still imperfect, having deep social and political problems like any other country. The Black Panther movie especially interrogated the premise of this nation's existence by pointing out that they stood by while atrocities happened all over the world, including to other black people, and they did nothing about it to protect their own hides. The short-lived "Ultimate Universe" took perhaps the biggest piss on the idea of Wakanda as the "Mary Suetopia" by replacing the "because Vibranium" background with "we reverse-engineered a crashed alien starship", and emphasizing that this didn't make them as powerful as they thought, as they ended up needing the Ultimates (Ultimate Marvel's Avengers) to save their asses when the aliens who lost that ship in the first place came knocking looking for their property.

* Alpha Complex, from [[Paranoia]]. Need more be said?


== Somewhat Special Cases of "Not Quite Sues" ==

There are a few situations where a character either (1) isn't really a Sue, even though the accusation gets pointed at them often, (2) is sufficiently clearly a parody or deconstruction that they don't count for the main list<ref>On the theory that both are technically attacks of Sue-style characters, which moves them into a strange twilight zone of classification.</ref>, or (3) aren't in any way Sues, but are needed to give some context to something above. This section is for these special cases. Note that '''characters who veer in or out of Suedom depending on the author or episode go on the main list, as do Sues who audiences actually like''' (such as Darkseid or Squirrel Girl).

* The Crimson King from Stephen King's Dark Tower series. He's talked up as a big threat, and his plan legitimately threatens the universe; but when confronted, he turns out be a paper tiger, whose chief power was getting so many people and monsters working on one page on his plan to destroy the world, and was otherwise actually rather mediocre compared to them. Given the heavy theme of '''disappointment''' in both the series as a whole and the last book of it in particular, this sorta worked on a meta level, but was very, well, disappointing. (For the main reason he's included here, see Darkseid above; the contrast between these two [[BBEG]]s gives you a good idea of why a paper tiger BBEG is often felt to be a problem.)

* Griffith, from [[Berserk]], seems a Mary Sue on the surface: he leads the efforts to save Midland and defeat the Kushan invaders while everything goes his way and everyone praises him... but then you remember that he's also a member of the Godhand who's got reality-warping powers handed to him in a handbasket and uses them to manipulate everything and everyone around him to his advantage. Basically, Griffith hacked the game and then began playing on the lowest difficulty, while setting it to Ultra-Nightmare for everyone else. If anything, Griffith is all the common jokes people make about a Mary Sue deconstructed, showing how utterly awful and soulless such a person would actually be. On the other hand, one of his former Warband member, Rickert, saw through his bullshit and bitch slapped him for it even though he wasn't there when Griffith betrayed his comrade. So not everyone is falling for Griffith.
** That being said, these facts don't change the following: He is portrayed as a tactical genius, yet during all his battles he is using absolutely retarded tactics, but all of them still work, because his high-ranking enemies turn out to be just a bunch of bumbling idiots. Can't push "time manipulation" excuse on this, they are just stupid; He's lost only two times and didn't die the first time, because Zodd had a plan for him and the second time, because Guts didn't want to kill him; The lowest point in his life i.e. a year of torture in the end led him into becoming a member of Godhand and then getting resurrected as "Griffith, but cooler", read "even when he fails, he doesn't"; The only time he had a formidable foe after this, he beat him with a single blow, while everyone else could barely stand against him; The second time he faces same formidable foe, he just bullshits his way out of that fight and creates his promised kingdom out of it. It's like if Superman blew up Darkseid with one punch (that was not even his) and created Paradise planet from his corpse; Despite sacrificing men who sworn to protect him and raping Casca just to get back at Guts, he didn't have any moral downfal afterwards, his character hasn't changed any single bit and everyone, except his ex-buddies (if they wouldn't, that would be too stupid), adore him, even if they know what he's done; Also, Godhand treats him like a messiah and people consider him Flaming Falcon i.e. he is also a chosen one.

* Jonathan, from the Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode "Superstar", provides a pretty good case study of the in-universe Mary Sue.

*Joeseph Joestar, though he does have some sueish traits such as being a super-genius who can trick anyone and knows exactly what people are going to say before they say it, alongside having the appearance of a Greek god, is very much not a Sue when you actually get down to it. He is extremely flawed, to the point of being weaker than all of his allies in part two and part three, both physically and stand/hamon wise, is very obviously outclassed by the villains of both respective arcs (Dio being able to easily beat him without even touching him, and Kars being a literal god by the end) and does extremely scummy things, such as cheating on his wife with a Japanese woman, who's race he supposedly hates. His grandson, Jotaro Kujo, on the other hand...

*Momonga/Ainz Ool Gown from Overlord boarders on Mary-Sueish and is the protagonist of an [[Isekai]] work, but is also a decent deconstruction of Invincible Villain Sues at the same time. He is transported to a fantasy world as his [[Lich]] MMO avatar, along with his Guild Hall and all its NPCs, now alive. He's still a no-life (literally) Japanese salary man, but finds he has lost his humanity and feelings, all the better to pretend to be (and eventually become) the overlord his adoring minions expect. These expectations pressure him to conquer the world with his gamer skills, system knowledge and corporate experience, min-maxing his way to success whilst bullshitting people that he's an evil mastermind. He still has many advantages however in resources, magic and diplomacy (substituting sales pitches for evil monologues, surprisingly easy) compared to all other characters so far. This results in him single-handedly winning wars, having an Empire become a vassal state almost by accident, and annexing a whole town from a neighbouring kingdom to rule over (Word of god is that no other YGGDRASIL players will appear). Being by many definitions OP, the story's drama arises from him not having complete control and knowledge of his minions' actions.
** Though fanatically loyal, they are constantly guessing his true intentions to try and impress him, misinterpreting his commands, and in some cases outright deceiving him. Two such examples are Ainz's advisor Albedo plotting behind his back to kill other Supreme Beings that he wants alive and unharmed, and Demiurge harvesting human captives to make magical items for their use (Demiurge himself considers humans "animals" and refers to them as such, hence Ainz has never found out). Both are in part because of Ainz's actions, and in any case, he has ordered and done equally terrible things himself.
** While most of Ainz's female guardians lust after him, even this is deconstructed. Albedo's a [[succubus]], so lust is par the course, and full-force [[/a/|yandere]] for Ainz because he altered her code in YGGDRASIL to change her from " a slut" to "in love with Momonga" as a joke. Shalltear wants Ainz because he's a walking skeleton and she's a necrophile (she's not to Ainz' taste being a loli vampire; furthermore, she holds her absent YGGDRASIL creator in higher esteem than Ainz), while Aura keeps a lid on her crush (she's a flat-chested teenage elf and wary of jealous reprisals from Albedo and Shalltear). Ultimately, the fact that Ainz is a walking skeleton means he's unable to fulfil their desires or consummate his own.
**TL:DR: Ainz's skills as a salary man and a competitive gamer don't translate well to politics or world conquest. Without his own gamebreaking powers, his almost as powerful loyal NPCs, his permanent poker face (well, poker skull) and a dose of incompetence from some of the enemy commanders, Ainz's plans wouldn't have worked nearly as well.
** To give one an idea of just how lousy Ainz is as an actual ''leader'', in an official list made by the author of the best leaders in the series, [[Lulz|Ainz is close to ''dead last'']].

* The Monkey King, from [[Mythology|Journey To The West]], if one assumes he isn't a religious figure and thus safe to include in this list, is interesting in that while he's very close to being a Mary Sue, several factors drag him away from the classification:
*#He's charged with protecting an unworldly monk, along with a horse (actually a shapeshifted dragon, which even the author seems to forget about), a borderline nonentity, and a pig-headed idiot (in both senses of the term, since he's a pig-demon who often lets his selfishness screw the group over). Rescuing them is most of what he does in the main body of the story.
*# He's repeatedly shown as being outwitted by the Buddha and Guanyin, and is outright curbstomped in combat by some of the many demons they encounter along the journey. While Wukong usually wins in the end, he rarely wins with no setbacks at all (whether that's physical injury, emotional turmoil and angst, or his friends getting kidnapped again) - contrasting heavily with a typical Mary Sue's victories being all but handed to them.
*#On a related note, he doesn't win everything and anything by himself: for example, during the contest with the Three Immortals, the last task (sitting on top of a pillar for days on end without moving) has to be undertaken by Tripitaka (the monk) specifically because Monkey's impulsive ways and lack of patience render him unsuitable for it; much earlier, he's rendered temporarily blind and has to rely completely on an otherwise neutral Bodhisattva to fight for him when faced with a demon he can't outsmart or outfight. This contrasts heavily with the omni-competence displayed by many Mary Sue characters.
*#He's pretty heavily flawed as a character, being impatient, reckless, childish, and frequently hot-headed - all of which have actual consequences for the Monkey King (ex.: rashly accepting Buddha's 'jump out of the palm of my hand' challenge, which gets him stuck under a mountain for several centuries; killing a demon disguised as an innocent woman without explaining himself first gets him kicked out of the party by his pacifistic boss; bumrushing a powerful demon nearly gets him killed by the True Fire of Samadhi, forcing him to go to Guanyin for help), with a good portion of the story involving him undergoing character development and overcoming these flaws as opposed to starting out as the pinnacle of morality with zero flaws whatsoever.
*#If one cares to dip into a religious reading, one can see in his introduction the clear Buddhist message "No matter how awesome you are, you are still trapped in the machinations of Desire and Karma"; alternately, if you don't care for religion, there's also the message "make enough of a nuisance of yourself, and your enemies will eventually slap you down even if it means X" (in the case of the Monkey King, swallowing their pride and asking help from somebody they dislike).
**TL;DR: Sun Wukong can be viewed as a deconstruction of certain kinds of Mary Sues, before the idea of a "Mary Sue" was even created.

* [[The Raven Queen]] is a fairly good example of why "Mary Sue" accusations, unless taken from a Author-Centered or Functional perspective, are somewhat useless. TRQ hits many Mary Sue buttons, and thus is sometimes accused of being a Sue. ''HOWEVER,'':
** She's never the protagonist, and when she does appear, she's treated the same as any of the other deities in 4e. Accusations of Functional Suedom thus sort of fall flat.
** While she may hit some Authorial-Centered (or Doylist) definitions of the term, it's probably more appropriate to compare her to just about any other non-monster female character in 4th Edition D&D in this context--while she is obviously designed to attract those who are attracted to a certain kind of woman, so are all the other non-monster females (to quote a famous demotivator, "RPG Artwork: Let's face it, a lot of it is porn. (Pretty odd porn, too)."). 
** She is no longer an example at all due to her backstory being completely rewritten in 5th edition to make her fit in with the setting better. She is no longer even a god since her attempt to become one was sabotaged, turning her into a phantom with a craving for knowledge and memories.

* Saitama from One-Punch Man. As the title indicates, he's able to defeat just about any opponent with one punch (with a few exceptions that require two or, rarely, three). While this makes him stronger than most of the "S-Class heroes" (the highest rank in the Hero Association), at the start of the series Saitama's personal life royally sucked: he had to pinch pennies to eat, had no knowledge of the Hero Association until he was notified by others of its existence, and his sheer strength means that his fights are inevitably painfully one-sided and boring for him. Even the arc villains who force him to use his Serious Series techniques will leave him bored, and since nobody knew who he was until recently, credit for his work went to other people. Capping it all off, the superhero name he was given by the association is [[Lulz|"Caped Baldy"]].
** Just to be clear, the main reason why he's not actually a Sue has to do with the main focus of the series: that Saitama gets no satisfaction from his lopsided victories, and the fact that the World's Strongest Man is something of a pathetic loser.
** The Monster Association Arc actually served to highlight Saitama's flaws since his knack for getting lost, stuck, or just being late to a fight meant that the Hero Association had to get by a number of very hard fights without his help, which included a battle with a villain who would have wiped out humanity. Even though Saitama is virtually unstoppable, he still can't protect the world on his own.

* Rick Sanchez from Rick and Morty, for the first two seasons. When it comes to his (seemingly) limitless ability to invent crazy sci-fi tech and to get himself out of virtually every tough spot, not to mention with getting away with being a colossal jerk to everyone around him, Rick could qualify as an anti-Sue. But his character is far from perfect, and he often falls under a combination of archetype and deconstruction. As a person, he is an older man who’s had a tough break (divorce and the death of a close family member in some parallel universe), and the fact that he has all this tech and that he either can't solve his personal problems or prevent new ones from occurring. Though the fact that he can be funny, the handful of moments of his positive qualities and being a fictional character do contribute to his likability.
** Again, to be clear: Rick's antics would probably qualify him for the main list, but the show is very clear on a few points that move him here: First, Rick is an asshole (also a massive nihilist), and not the type you want to be, either (it's almost directly stated that his assholery grows from some pretty grim experiences and knowledge); second, Rick is not somebody you want to be, nor be around; and third, the writers realize that he's both of the above.
**Season 3 however, ruined this and tried to attempt to drop his despicability, what few weaknesses he had, and just plain made him extremely overpowered. The only reason we haven't moved Rick back to the main list is because, if you look at the production end, it becomes obvious Seasons 1 and 2 were effectively a completely different show from later seasons.

* The main casts of [[Star Trek]] TOS and TNG eras (besides Wesley due to being Rodenberry's self insert above and Voyager due to poor writing all around)--in particular, James T. Kirk when not written by William Shatner-- provide a good reference line for Suedom. Although they are usually right by authorial fiat, there are several points that point the other way from Suedom:
*#They are also usually allowed to be wrong about an issue, at least initially (and rarely, but still often enough to be worth mentioning, all the way to the end of the story).
*#The fact that the focus is usually on the scenario presented, rather then the perfectness of the characters.
*#They all have character flaws (Kirk's "No Such Thing As A No Win Situation" attitude is presented as something that could get him and his crew killed one day, for a notable example.)
*#They are not omni-competent, even within their field -- Kirk has canonically been outmaneuvered multiple times.
*#Most importantly, the writing is usually of sufficient quality to not make their perfectness an issue (except, in Kirk's case, for works written by William Shatner).
*#Notably, as part of #2 and #5, there is no "right" solution to many of the situations beyond "survival"; the audience is usually allowed to draw its own conclusions about the morality of the situation, whereas the author of a Sue typically drives home in heavy-handed fashion that X is ''definitely'' the morally correct course of action.
** Combined, these points make them a good reference line for "hyper-competent" characters: Beyond here may lie Suedom.
*** The creators of DS9 succeeded in toning down the Mary Sue factor a bit. A necessity when one of the premises of the series was energy based aliens who live in a wormhole. Who know little to nothing of meatbag values and no concept of time. The were even given a weakness too. The Prophets also did some pretty fucked up shit themselves and had to be convinced to do help out the main cast. Even when the Alpha Quadrant was being invaded by an empire that [[/pol/ ]]wishes they were. The Dominion themselves are a deconstruction of pre turn of the millennium [[Imperium of Man]] and [[Star Wars|the Galactic Empire.]] Unfortunately post Voyager Star trek went Transwarp speed in the other direction and the franchise had to be rebooted. [[fail|Twice]].

* At first glance, Tsukiko from [[Order of the Stick]] seems like a textbook Mary Sue, given the LONG list of Mary Sue boxes she ticks: Heterochromatic eyes, great beauty, skimpy clothing, unusually skilled for her young age, Japanese name meaning "moon child", oppressed by a stuck-up society not understanding her greatness etc. But in reality, Rich Burlew wrote her as a satire and deconstruction of the Mary Sue archetype and the mindset that often creates such characters. Listing them off:
*# The reason she was "oppressed by society"? They threw her in jail for '''literal''' [[Slaanesh corpsefucking]]. Yes, she's a necrophile, and it's treated as being just as gross as it is IRL, even by other villains.
*# Great beauty? Nobody cares, and it doesn't make her a good person by default.
*# Sees good in the bad guys that nobody else does? It's based on deliberately ridiculous logic that is completely wrong anyway. (To be exact, she holds the view that [[What|the living are jerks, and the undead are the opposite of the living, ergo the undead must be good people]]; the batshit insanity of this is called out for what it is.) Also, she thinks that Xykon is some kind of [[Twilight|Edward Cullen type-guy]], as opposed to the [[Alignment|Chaotic Evil]] [[Lich]] [[Sorcerer]] he ''actually is''.
*# A bad guy becomes a complete dumbass to accommodate her genius? Nope, Redcloak only let her have her way so his own, far more subtle machinations could avoid having attention drawn to them; when she forces his hand he gladly demonstrates to her that she was completely outclassed by him the whole time.
*# The bad guy gets effortlessly beaten by her because of her skills? Ha ha ha -- hell no. When she confronted him, Redcloak casually killed her in deliciously karmic fashion by effortlessly dominating her Wights ([[FATAL|simultaneously her surrogate children, minions and lovers]]), removing her enchanted anti-level-draining ring, and then ordering them to devour their creator as he delivered a scathing "You suck!" speech to her about how undead are not ''people'', just complex ''weapons''; her thinking otherwise doesn't make it so and if she ever thought he was powerless before her, she was dead wrong.
*#Just to really drive home the point: for all her big talk and all her supposed greatness, nobody on Team Evil gives a damn when Redcloak quietly ganks her (except the Monster in the Darkness, but they're the resident softie of the team) and she's swiftly forgotten about.
** TL;DR version: Tsukiko is a parody and deconstruction of a Sue, who is shown to be objectively deluded about everything and suffers actual consequences for her actions.




[[Category:Mary Sue]]

List of Mary Sues

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There are too many fucking [[Mary Sues]] in our games and fiction. We know it, and we love to complain about it, because it makes us feel a little better to call a spade a shovel. The original purpose of this list is to provide examples so the phenomenon can be studied, identified and - as a result of the latter - avoided.

(Note: please post Mary Sues in alphabetical order, so they don't fight about who's the better Mary-Sue. Also, this is about fictional characters, so while Canon Sues are acceptable, no real-life examples (even if there is such person named <s>Mary Sue AKA the Scientology founder's wife</s> I'm just adding that for fun). For the sake of peace, religious figures [and possibly mythological characters; particularly when they're from original mythologies] are real-life examples. Also, any characters added to the list without justifying reasons will be removed from this page. If you're going to add a race, please use the list below this one.

==Mary Sues Case Studies==
{{Plot Armour}}

* [[Alice]] from the in-name-only ''[[Resident Evil]]'' movies: A character created for the movies who started out as corporate spy, she has ever-growing superpowers and is <s>presented as</s> ENTIRELY invincible. She manages to become an even bigger Sue when she loses said superpowers yet continues to obliterate armies unscathed. The film refuses to even let other characters do anything but get rescued by her, she's worse than characters written by [[Matthew Ward]]. Later films even gave her clones to explain why she's still in the films. On top of all this, the bitch is played by the director's wife; she's his perfect Mary Sue waifu insert and she's literally sleeping with him to get the job. Don't forget that [[Katanas are Underpowered in d20|she dual-wields katanas]]. And shotguns. And probably Desert Eagles, too.

* Andrew "Ender" Wiggin from Orson Scott Card's Enderverse, and a blatant (almost comical to a serious reader) example at that. What's worse: he only becomes more of this as the story and the books progress. It's even worse in the 2013 movie. At least the books gave the other characters more depth, Ender's feats took more time to achieve, and it contained POV's outside of his.
** Ender's siblings Valentine and Peter. Ender's sister is a self righteous prig who is only overshadowed by their sociopathic brothers Peter. Peter himself is a mid-to-low functioning sociopath, [[What|but intelligent enough that, as a child, he comes up with sophisticated political philosophies that wow academic circles and get him appointed Political Leader of Earth as an adult. Despite the fact that a sociopath with absolute power would get tyrannical as soon as someone opposed them, he does no violence and dies with a benign, well-loved legacy]]. Yes, this really happens.

* [[Batman]] in an unskilled author's hands. He's a handsome human billionaire who's the pinnacle of human physical prowess and manages to defeat superpowered beings simply because "he had time to prepare" (with few thinking "why don't his opponents also use that time to prepare?"). On top of this he has LITERAL PLOT ARMOR; one of the DC editorial mandates is that Batman is not allowed to be truly defeated (he's usually too popular and has a presence in too much of the DC Universe to be allowed the downtime by editorial, unless it's part of a major storyline such as Knightfall). Because of this a certain tendency for Batman to turn into a Mary Sue is well documented (Read JLA: Act of God and weep; that story was all about starting the First Church of Batman. Or hell, check out the Dark Nights: Metal storyline, where a bunch of Evil Batmen who are variants on an existing superhero attack the DCU as opposed to, say, just doing a whole Evil Justice League like they have multiple times before). This problem becomes particularly acute when he takes down superpowered villains who usually bother other superpowered heroes, such as the Reverse Flash. On the non-Sue side, while Batman does have plot armor (nearly no one thinks to just shoot him when they get the chance and the few times they do he escapes, and he's never unexpectedly engaged by superhuman opponents who could easily beat him - like Darkseid), the same can be said for other non-superpowered heroes. Note, as well, that there are many ways of adding dramatic tension to such a foregone conclusion situation, and the above mandate only includes actual defeat, so Batman is allowed to fail and make mistakes in certain situations or the villain can escape to cause trouble even after their plan is thwarted, which also helps lessen the Bat-Sue Factor.
** Batman is at his worst when written by Frank Miller, who on top of the plot armor issues, writes Batman as a violent psychopath and anybody who calls him out is always presented as being in the wrong. Frequently other superheroes only exist in the story to be written as incompetent so Batman can be made to look better in comparison.

* [[Edgy|Billy Butcher from "The Boys"]] (comics and show, especially the comics) is a prime example of a Jerk Sue (An unsympathetic character nevertheless favored in the story, according to [[TVTropes|our frenemeies]]; "There's a difference between having a sympathetic backstory and actually being sympathetic"). Hating "supers" because one raped his wife and caused her death, Billy is half Punisher-knock-off, half self-insert mouthpiece for Garth Ennis hate boner against superpowers and religion - especially Christianity (it's no coincidence that Billy's a bitter atheist while the antagonist Homelander has a side job as a Christian Pastor and Starlight loses her Christian faith). Billy forms an anti-supers black ops team and works to help the protagonist Hughie get justice for his girlfriend’s death by superhero collateral damage. But Billy's reasons are selfish and he's also an edgelord (mean-spirited? check. violent? check. dark clothes? check. created by edgelord author? check. Revolves around attacking "The Man"? that's a big check!) who nearly turns on Hughie when Hughie starts dating the super defector Starlight, then continues the comics trend of nihilistic subversiveness. He has plot armor to put Batman to shame - even getting away with his dog urinating on a supervillain who's killed people for less - and supposedly has the moral high ground despite doing the same type of crimes as the villains. He then becomes a Villain Sue while trying to genocide supers, because Billy only loses in the end because he chooses to. Even when he loses he gets to die on his own terms by provoking Hughie into killing him so Billy doesn't get arrested and spend the rest of his life in prison while crippled, meaning that despite "losing" Billy effectivily still won. He’s also consistently never allowed to be wrong, as any time a character has something to say about Billy or his actions, he has something to throw back at them proving they’re actually wrong due to author fiat ensuring Billy only argues against strawmen. Finally, this story embodies the author's hatred of superheroes... but Billy himself has superpowers, making the entire premise hypocritical. Goes to show that edgelord Mary Sues are just as repellent as the sugary sweet ones.

* [[Furry|Brian Griffin]] from ''Family Guy'' at his worst. While he was generally depicted as the most sensible member of the Griffin household from practically the very beginning, this was balanced by his flaws (one of the most prominent being his drinking problem) and the fact that the show acknowledged that he could be annoying and/or an asshole. Later on, though, he became a mouthpiece for the showrunner Seth MacFarlane who was treated in-universe as being always right, with the only people who disagreed with him being strawmen who were obvious to the point of being cartoonishly over-the-top. Throw in the facts that Seth MacFarlane voices Brian, he uses his natural speaking voice to do so '''AND''' he often does this on hot-button topics... This was made all the more obnoxious by how flawed or downright ridiculous his logic often was (one of the most notorious examples being the widely-hated episode "Not All Dogs Go To Heaven", where he manages to convince a newly-fundamentalist Christian Meg that God doesn't exist because... she doesn't look as attractive as her mother Lois. Even worse, this was ''after'' the episode "I Dream of Jesus" where the Griffin family - Brian included - had Jesus Himself live with them for a week and do several miracles in front of them). This was somewhat addressed after Season 7, with following seasons often having other characters comment on the inherent absurdity of a talking dog lecturing people about politics (even though them actually challenging the views previously raised was a rare event). Quagmire even got a famous speech where he called out Brian for his self-righteousness and hypocrisy.

* Caius Ballad, the antagonist of ''Final Fantasy XIII-2''. Impractical overdesigned costume? Check. Impractical giant, overdesigned sword? Check. Purple hair? Check. Story-breaking powers? Check. Can't be beaten? Check. Openly called the most powerful ''Final Fantasy'' villain ever by his creator? Check. The only mitigating feature this fool has is that his English VA is Liam O'Brien.

* Darkseid from DC Comics is a rare case where people actually ''like'' someone for being a Sue. He wasn't one at the start of his career - Jack Kirby conceived him as a paper tiger who, for all his grandiose plans and ambitions, was only powerful if people feared him and could be beaten up by two street thugs who didn't know who he was, not anticipating that fans might prefer a villain who was really as intrinsically powerful as Darkseid claimed to be. He's strong and tough enough to go toe-to-toe with Superman, he has laser eyes that can do whatever he wants them to (including killing people instantly or bringing them back to life), he's a masterful schemer who knows all about setting up gambits where he wins no matter what and striking deals with easy ways around them he doesn't mention, most of his minions rival the Justice League in power and on top of all that he's the ruler of an entire planet that reliably goes to shit when he's not around to slap it into shape and sometimes a wide-reaching galactic empire. Despite all this Villain Sue-ness, any attempts to nerf him or bring him down to a more realistic villain level are met with widespread backlash and outrage, and his most celebrated storyline in recent comics history is Final Crisis, in which the heroes required a time-travelling, god-killing bullet to defeat him and he actually forced Batman to abandon his rule against killing. The message is clear: Darkseid is DC's ultimate villain (or close enough to that status that the number of people higher than him can be counted on a hand or two/ doesn't require literal divine intervention etc. to defeat and thus retaining a meaningful conflict) and the fans won't settle for anything less.
** There's a reason for this, by the way: Darkseid and his court neatly fill the archetypal niche of embodiments of "the fucked up things people do when you give them power", with, for example, Gods of Child Abuse and of Torture as two of his chief henchmen. Darkseid himself is the God of Tyranny. If you're going to have a hero who's about Hope and positive, creative or protective Aspirations (see: Superman, Flash, etc.), a villain who embodies the crushing of hope and negative, destructive Aspirations is incredibly useful. Making such a character a paper tiger can be made to work (see the Crimson King, under Special Cases), but is more often than not going to be unsatisfying, usually deeply so.

* Divis Mal from the RPG [[Aberrant]]. Oh, where to begin? Well, first of all on top of being the absolute, balls-out, most powerful Aberrant in the setting, ever, he's super smart, plans for everything, never loses ''no matter what the players do'', and has an ideology that can basically be described as "like Magneto, only ''right''. About ''everything.''" He's also in a loving relationship with a super-attractive partner who is ''also'' super-powerful, and his enemies are all stupid and happen to be straw-stuffed right-wing stereotypes because of course they are. He also serves as a thinly-veiled self-insert fanfic character for the lead game designer (a gay man with issues), and said designer once claimed that the title of the game referred to ''him specifically''. It was all the sequel game could do to take the piss out of all the problems he caused.

* Dr. Doom, depending on the writer. It doesn't help that he's a genius and self-made [s]tycoon[/s] monarch with a tragic past, who keeps getting his deaths, defeats, failures and embarassing moments retconned as body doubles (naming the infamous "Actually a Doombot" trope). Worst case scenarios are when he's written by somebody that forgets that he's a VILLAIN and depicts his rule over Latveria as unrealistically benign, and makes it look like the superheroes are wrong for trying to keep him from taking over the world. Writers who like him too much also have him winning fights he doesn't deserve, beating characters who specialize in hand to hand combat despite rarely displaying any such skills himself, overpowering much stronger characters who should be able to defeat him based on how his fights with the Fantastic Four go, and be portrayed as a flawless genius who can plan for everything akin to how some writers handle Batman. Doom has had some famous victories when he's punched above his weight class in the past, which fanboy writers have used as the pretext to let him steal the powers of other beings with no difficulty, even though his past successes doing so weren't by any means easy.

* Elizabeth from ''BioShock Infinite''. Plot-sustaining power (the key to the whole plot literally rests in her hands), cannot be harmed, <s>makes a grown veteran of war look like an idiot child</s> only if you suck at the game... Regardless, she is routinely placed in easily escapable situations for the pure purpose of being saved when she can plausibly save herself, and makes none of the major (or minor) mistakes in the game. While some claim that she greatly dislikes violence, especially killing, individual interpretations vary depending on whether you view her murders as character arc-defining. To make her comparable to Sues like Lightning and Alice: Ken Levine tweeted to complain about all the people who'd [[rule 34|rule 34'd]] his perfect wife, begging them to stop because it was like seeing his daughter in Playboy (or words to that effect). Which resulted in the internet giving Ken Levine exactly [[promotions|what he wanted]]. She even gets to be tied into how Fontaine got Jack's command code in the first BioShock. Way to ruin the franchise with some conventional plot device.

*[[Elminster]], who is currently having a threesome with the goddess of magic and rad boobies and his adopted super-hot albino elf daughter while simultaneously beating the god of murder in a sword fight with one hand and the god of slavery in a magic fight with the other. Also, he's like a million years old and looks it. Ed Greenwood's self-insert character in the [[Forgotten Realms]], and a big source of "Why doesn't he just do this for us?" questions whenever he appears in questlines. Also, along with the gods of the setting and the Harpers, he's one of the reasons why the Forgotten Realms are in [[Medieval Stasis]].
**Ironically he didn't start out originally like this. Back at the beginning of D&D, Elminster wasn't a massive Mary Sue. Believe it or not, he simply used to be a maxed-out wizard with some additional abilities and stuff that appeared as a Deus Ex Machina in case players had an encounter that was too difficult to overcome, much like Gandalf in [[The Hobbit]].

*Emma from The Promised Neverland. Although originally a well fleshed-out character who stands as a clear foil to Ray. After the Goldy Pond Arc, Emma and, let's be honest, the quality of the manga itself started to go downhill. What was once meant to be a trio of protagonists that balanced each other with their strengths and weaknesses, was dumbed down to just Emma pulling shit out of her ass and having a talk-no-jutsu so powerful it can put even Naruto to shame. The amount of asspulls that Emma showed during the TPN in the later arcs was....pronounced enough that it becomes jarring especially when compared to the first two arcs of the manga. Seriously, she can somehow convince every single opponent that challenged her beliefs by simply talking to them and she never ever suffered any repercussions from it. Don't even get us started with enemies knocking themselves out due to ''very'' specific conveniences. Poor Ray was sidelined and reduced to a fucking side character near the end. She is idealistic to the fault and her ideas somehow manages to perpetuate inside the Daemon world just because she's ''that fucking good''. Emma is one of the unique cases where a well-written character got put into Mary Sue territory within the same series no-less. Instead of her character evolving, she devolved. Look, we in /tg/ knows that shonen manga and 'good conclusion' don't often mix, but TPN is one of the most infamous examples that recently came out.

*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TedsiCaV2B4 Empress Theresa] is a good example of the "waifu" theory of Mary Sues and the Doylist definition of Mary Sues, where the author's relationship to the character is the defining factor. Short version: Deranged author who can't take criticism creates his perfect waifu, hands her the world, and refuses to edit the resulting masterpiece, and posts the result for sale on Amazon. Criticism results, which in turn results in internet arguments on a scale that is ''amazing'' (by themselves, they dwarf all of the arguments and criticisms of the Twilight franchise put together, with the unsettling add-on that this is all the author's mindset).

*Every author self-insert. Especially those found in high-school writing assignments.

*Green Lanterns from Earth, especially Hal Jordan. All the human Green Lanterns are regularly shown to be the best Lanterns in the Corps because they ALL have indomitable willpower, skill, and courage, surpassing others who have been in the corps for decades. Most other Lanterns exist only to be killed off as a means of showing how dangerous a threat is. They're only ever effective when they are helping the Human ones. The most Green Lanterns ever killed was during the Emerald Twilight story arc and they were killed by, you guessed it, Hal Jordan.

*Haoh from Shaman King. If there is any villain that can truly be called a Mary Sue, it's him, most other villains with this accusation still get defeated. Haoh not only proves invincible throughout the whole series, able to easily pull of feats that are impossible for everybody else, he also has the ability to revive himself if killed, meaning even if the heroes beat him, which they state is impossible in a straight-up fight, it would be pointless, because he'd just back even stronger. Worse is that he goes around saying how awful humans and everyone, even the writer, seems to agree with him because the series ends with him winning, only delaying his plans to kill humanity because reasons, and gets away with a number of atrocities that would make numerous [[Chaos]] jealous. To top it all off, the sequel series has the heroes fighting to ensure he '''keeps''' his position as Shaman King because the alternatives to him would be worse, even though Haoh hasn't actually admitted plotting to destroy humanity and killing almost anyone who stood in his way was wrong, so really, there shouldn't be anybody worse than him.

*IG-88 in the ''Star Wars'' expanded universe, given that he easily breaks into the second Death Star and uploads his personality into it and takes control with nobody noticing. For those who're unfamiliar with the lore, this means that a single assassin droid managed to upload its personality into one of the most heavily-secured star stations ''in the galaxy'', without ''any'' of at least one million personnel (including techs, soldiers, and the human equivalent of Satan incarnate) discovering that anything is amiss. It also took over a planet, though this is far less Sueish than it sounds due to there being only a few dozen people on said planet in total, it having another four assassin droids to help it out, and it re-programming large numbers of extant droids to help it out in killing everyone on this planet along the way.

*[[James Bond]]. To what degree varies, but the Roger Moore version is the worst offender: he's unbeatable at just about everything, never loses his composure, a ladies' man to an unrealistic degree (even lesbians and villains who stand for everything he opposes switch sides after a dicking from Bond, not to mention that time he had sex with a lesbian was questionable consent at best...so Bond arguably gets away with actual sexual assault if not outright rape), implausibly intelligent, a crack shot, and basically unkillable. In the books, he is an unlikable git and an alcoholic, yet still gets shit done.

*James T. Kirk of [[Star Trek]], but only when written by William Shatner. While in TOS, Roddenberry himself outright stated Kirk was his Author Avatar and that he wanted the show to have the ambiance of Kirk being able to have any woman he desired, Kirk was still allowed to occasionally fail or make mistakes in certain situations. For other non-Shatner written works, the Suedom factor is kept under control by factors gone into under the list found under "Somewhat Special Cases", below.

*John Kramer, the "Jigsaw Killer" from the ''Saw'' films. Pick any character you know of with a long list of skills or attributes, this guy has more, and he keeps getting away for a half dozen movies. He's also influenced people to the point that even after he dies, some of them copy his actions and ideas and think they're doing good things.

*The Joker can be this in the hands of a poor writer. While there are damn good reasons he's one of the most iconic villains in all of pop culture, he's all too easy to write as a flawless schemer and trickster who can punch well above his weight class for no good reason. This is especially irritating if the writer takes the wrong lessons from ''The Killing Joke'' (by trying too hard to make him sympathetic; while that take on Joker is certainly tragic and nuanced, it's made very clear that his unfortunate past doesn't justify his actions... assuming it even happened at all, since he himself admits his memories of his pre-Joker life are inconsistent) and/or ''A Death in the Family'' (by reducing him to a guy who just brutally murders people; that story along with the aforementioned ''The Killing Joke'' helped make it a bigger part of his character, but it still kept his random and unpredictable goals and motivations rather than just making him a one-note murder machine who kills people for fun even when doing so would be counterproductive).

*Jon Snow (especially the show version): While this is in the books as well, it is more evident in the show and he is currently dying from a mutiny in the books. Being a bastard is a bad thing in Westeros so he gets sent to the wall, but it's uphill from there. He gets a Valyrian steel blade (which is incredibly rare and an heirloom of noble houses) in his first week. He has a pet Direwolf puppy like his siblings, but of course his looks unique. From here he gets named as squire and successor to the commander of the Night's Watch (though this does cause some resentment among his peers). Later on he meets Wildings where he spares one who turns out to be a woman; it's obvious where this goes... they don't get along, they fall in love, have sex and spend some time together, something forces them apart and she dies. She also has red hair, which stands out because among Wildings its considered lucky. While he gets stabbed like in the books, in the show he dies from it then gets resurrected by Melisandre/the Lord of Light. He's revealed to be the bastard child of Rhaegar Targereyn and Lyanna Stark, making him Westeros' rightful king, as well as Daenerys' nephew - but that doesn't stop him from having sex with aunt Daenerys*, and the incest is portrayed positively this time! Also, him beating Ramsay Bolton (see below); that's right, Jon's so Mary Sue his plot armor trumps the plot armor of another Mary Sue (to be fair, though, he was actually on the verge of losing the big battle to Ramsay right up until the moment his ass gets saved by his little sister and about four thousand mounted knights.) While some of the earlier traits don't necessarily equal a Mary Sue, they add up... oh, they add up (*Daenerys, a warqueen who brought dragons back from extinction among other things, makes mistakes and suffers consequences that would seem to impact her Sue-factor if they didn't always turn out to be functionally inconsequential in comparison to her astounding triumphs through casual part-time parenting.) Book Jon is way more well rounded as a character, where it is pointed out that he actually had a decent life as a bastard before coming to the Watch, and several choices he made ended up biting him in the ass come the mutiny.

*Jotaro Kujo, from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Part 3 and 4 (And part 6 but not in part 6... we'll get to that later). He's pretty much invincible like Kenshiro, but unlike Kenshiro, he didn't train a single day to be as hax as he is (His Stand "Star Platinum" is really strong, at the cost of short range, but plot gets in the way and he always gets close enough to ORAORA the bad guys). Also unlike Kenshiro, he is an asshole to everyone, but never suffers any consequences from it (Women literally ADORE him despite his jerkass attitude, because 80's). He spends the entire trip to Egypt spurting out massive amounts of [[Just as planned]] against every villain of the week, or simply getting powers as plot demands, some of the most outrageous examples being: The use of "Star Finger", which completely negates the previously stated range weakness; His "battle" against Steely Dan, where he DID get humilliated but retributed it tenfold in the end; His "battle" against Alessi, where he gets to beat a grown man unconscious with his bare fists despite being turned back into a SEVEN YEAR OLD; His battle against main villain DIO where he wins DIO's time stopping powers for bullshit reasons and wins; and, even more ridiculously, being able to RESURRECT his very dead Grandpa Joseph by [[what|using his stand for blood transfusing and heart-resetting]]. In part 4 he mellows down a lot, most notably [[FAIL|getting beaten by a rat]], but that doesn't prevent him from beating the shit out of the main villain Kira TWICE and stealing the spotlight from Uncle Josuke (The titular Jojo of part 4) on his final battle; too bad Josuke!. Part 6 however, does a great job at not only nerfing but rounding him altogether, the Jojo this time being his own daughter, Jolyne Cujoh (Note that is not Kujo), a delinquent who ends out in prison and resents him greatly for being an awful, absent father and constantly reminds him of it. He attempts to "fix" things but [[Just as planned|falls into one of main villain Pucci's schemes]] and is rendered comatose for great part of the story, when he latter regains his powers (With a significant decrease in durability) and comes to terms with Jolyne, the villain becomes Godlike and ends out killing him along with the entire universe; too bad Shonen Jump!, now seinen is Araki's best friend. In Pucci's universe he is a complete spineless weakling, but in case that was a bit too much, reality resets again and creates [[Awesome|a new universe free of the Joestars Tragic Fate and Part 3's bullshit]]. PD: In the Videogame Eyes of Heaven he is even worse, but this entry is already too long so i'll only say the creators weren't too good with resolutions.

*Kai Leng, from ''[[Bioware#Mass_Effect_3_.28The_Downfall.29|Mass Effect 3]]''. You're constantly told he's a badass assassin, but when he shows up, Shepard's crew suddenly become drooling idiots so Leng can strut about, act tough, and monologue. He brags about killing Thane (alien assassin squadmate from the previous game) even though the latter was hobbled by a terminal illness requiring daily medical care and Thane ''STILL'' got the drop on Kai Leng; Thane even says himself "That other assassin should be embarrassed. A terminally-ill Drell kept him from reaching his target." When you "win" the "fight" against him on Thessia, he still gets away, utterly unaffected by the crumbling architecture that stops Shepard from pursuing him. By the end of the fight, you've advanced the plot a grand total of nowhere, regurgitated information you already have, and been hamstrung as a player because the writer wants his character to look cool. He is yet another antagonist dropped onto a story filled with them, but is nothing more than a costume, sword, and book of one-liners. Unlike Saren from ME1, we have no connection with this douchebag because the story doesn't give him enough screen time to develop into anything.
** Alternate take: What appears to be Sue-ness is BioWare writing him as a Hate Sink. (Basically a character designed to be hated and nothing else, [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HateSink ask those smashers at TV Tropes for more info].) BioWare were using the Reapers as cool villains and leaning into the Illusive Man getting the Darth Vader treatment of the tragic, sympathetic villain who can possibly redeem himself with his death, so Leng became the game's villainous punching bag. Given what a gut punch the final battle is, clearly they wanted Leng's ultimate downfall to give the player a moment of catharsis so they could take a small victory where they got it. And for that to work, it had to be satisfying, and that meant he had to get on the player's nerves without an excuse or understandable motive to undercut their focused rage against him. Note that during the final battle against him, Shepard spends the whole time dressing him down as a coward who can only win by running away and after beating him, smashes his stupid sword and guts him like a fish with their omni-blade. [[Awesome|"That was for Thane, you son of a bitch!"]]

*[[Fist of the North Star|Kenshiro]], nothing can kill him and he's morally flawless, superior to everyone-fucking-else. At least until Shin Saga in the anime, where he starts fucking up often, even with his super kung-fu laser ninja powers. Most battles are curb-stomps until later on because ''it's a fucking show from the 80's''. Do note, however, that Kenshiro loses a ''lot,'' especially later on, and mostly wins his hardest battles because he's the only one worth a shit left alive by that point in the series.

*Kirby from his/their (Localization made him a he instead of ambiguous as in Japan, and it's been [[Skub|discussed]] ever since) eponymous franchise, and the first brainchild of the Smash man. Kids' game logic is in effect, but even then it can be egregious. Between their [[/d/|insta-death inhaling]], the Copy Ability (and various gimmick abilities throughout the franchise), unnatural toughness, and [[What|godkilling streak]], the puffball is a strong contender for most powerful video game character. However, their immense, possibly-Eldritch (as of Star Allies) power is balanced by the fact they're almost always portrayed as ignorant if not a full-blown [[Derp|dumbass baby]]. Seriously, their naive nature is known to cause various problems for themselves and others. Notable feats include repeatedly turning back an all-assimilating Eldritch hivemind, defeating an interdimensional wizard and the god-crown he wore, singlehandedly bringing down an [[Games Workshop|uber-greedy megacorporation]] and stopping their AI from going full [[Exterminatus]], destroying(?) an actual Eldritch god of darkness and destruction [[What|they may or may not be related to]], and stopping a god-alien (not-so-originally called [[Original character, do not steal|the Ultimate Lifeform]]) from causing two worlds to collide just by [[WTF|running it over with Truck-Kun]].

*Kratos from ''[[God of War]]''. He curb-stomps fucking gods due to [[plot armor]] (and because one of them decided to give a bloody psychopath the powers of a god; MENSA applicant right there) and he has threesomes with complete strangers, even though he is meant to be grieving for the death of his family that he himself murdered. Oh and the rules for how death works change whenever it's convenient for him. Err, some of this is because most of the gods he kills with super-powerful items, including Blade of Olympus, the God of War universe's version of Zeus' lightning bolts the cyclopes gave him to defeat the titans, which has been infused with all the power of the Greek God of War. And he is later revealed to house the Power of Hope since GoW1, a power strong enough to kill gods. Now he is starting a new family in Norse mythology land Midgard while STILL having the "godly" super strength despite the blade of Olympus having drained all his power and given it all to the world. (Note that he clearly didn't give up his combat experience nor his genetics as a demi-god son of Zeus. Even without those things, he's at minimum a heavily trained demi-god from the strongest of the Greek gods.) At least he acknowledged how fucking awful he was in the past and tried to be a good father toward his new son Atreus, but still keeping his no gods allowed policy.

*Lana Lang from the TV show ''Smallville'' (note; Smallville is not considered canon to the Superman story by DC Comics). Almost big a Mary Sue as Bella from Twilight; almost because she actually has a few useful skills, but she learns them unrealistically quickly (becoming a black belt in martial arts in ''one week''). She has the cliché orphan story but with a unique spin for maximum snowflake effect (her parents were killed by a meteor strike), everyone in the story loves her with the exception of some villains (the key word is SOME), and she's treated as someone who can do no wrong. Lana even got on the cover of TIME magazine, in-universe, as a child! She serves as a wedge between Clark and having a relationship with any other girl and between Clark and his eventual Superman destiny. Clark technically sacrificed his father to save her! In one episode, Clark rewound time on a day in which Lana died, and instead lost his father.

*Lightning from ''Final Fantasy XIII'', she is basically a pink-haired Cloud without any of Cloud's likable personality traits. She's currently the NEW AND ASTONISHING HEAVENLY Valkyrie that fights a purple Sephiroth in her new game "Lightning's Return". Not that we care, but she was created by Motomu Toriyama ([[Matt Ward]]'s Japanese cousin), a man with a Chris-Chan-like persona and Matthew Ward-style writing who is now continuously raping the franchise. He has a waifu love for Lightning like Paul has for Alice. Lightning is comparable to Alice on many levels, which says a lot, really. She also has tons of fucking DLC "costumes" dedicated to her so the player could dress her up and fap her to death. This is so fucking shameful that I'm crazy enough to believe Alice is a much capable heroine. Somebody kill me, please. Oh, just recently, Toriyama decided to have Lightning become a guest character in a future Final Fantasy. So not only is the franchise gonna suffer the rotting Emperor syndrome, but Lightning is now the literal goddess of every Final Fantasy game? Seriously, have you ever seen Paul doing such disgusting things with Alice? Like forcing Alice into an actual ''Resident Evil'' game (well, the ''Resident Evil'' franchise is dead as well)? Motomu Toriyama is officially worse than Paul Anderson!!
** Gets worse: Toriyama has stated that Lighting is the "first" strong female character in any ''Final Fantasy''. Even ignoring the dozens of better-written female characters, some of which he himself has written, the "strong" meaning just physical doesn't work either; FF7's Tifa (a game he worked on, btw) can punch tanks to death.

*Lisa Simpson from ''The Simpsons'', depending on the writer. Lisa has dipped into Mary Sue-dom the same way as the above-mentioned Brian from Family Guy (both serving time as smug mouthpieces for their show's creators on hot-button-topics). There was also a time where Lisa had the tendency to never be punished for the times she does do the wrong doing (she ruins Homer's BBQ in "Lisa the Vegetarian" and merely got scolded by him where Bart would likely have been strangled for it). One episode had people deferring to Lisa over Prof. Stephen Hawking in Hawking's area of expertise, and Groening once said Lisa is his favorite character and that he would do anything to prevent her from looking bad (to reference the strangling; the show's animators also applied a double-standard as they strongly protested against the idea of Homer strangling Lisa for upsetting him like he does with Bart). While Lisa's popularity in-universe fluctuates, at its worst the whole town bends over backwards for her even when it goes past characterization (eg; Springfieldians can be '''VERY''' sore losers, as demonstrated in the episode "Boys of Bummer" where the whole town - sans Marge - ridiculed Bart for losing a sports game [[Grimdark|to the point that they nearly drove the 10 year old to suicide]], but when Lisa lost a spelling contest she was applauded for winning second place and got a Mount Rushmore-style sculpture of her face). That being said, there are episodes where Lisa is depicted as unpopular at school, her activism is made over-the-top to be played for laughs, she's neglected at home and less of a "smartest person around" and more of a "only sane person surrounded by idiots", lessening the Sue-factor.

*Lucy from the 2014 movie of the same name. Long story short, she gets forced by gangsters to smuggle drugs in her stomach, but the container bursts and the drugs make her smarter and use more and more of her brain, because this movie was seriously written around the pseudoscientific premise that humans only use 10% of their brain. This also causes her to [[What|develop superpowers somehow]], and at the end of the movie she basically becomes god.

*Magneto is not inherently one, but he does have the INSANE potential to become this when crappy writers start taking his sympathetic traits too far ("Hey guys, let's [[What|make Magneto a member of the X-Men and have him date Rogue]]!") or just forget he's the bad guy. Hell, he sometimes becomes this even when he's a horribly despicable villain. Jeph Loeb's raping of the Ultimate Universe known as "Ultimatum" has him use his magnetic powers to nearly destroy the world just by waving his hands at Earth's magnetic poles (completely breaking the laws of physics in the process) and then effortlessly take on half the X-Men and almost all of the Ultimates singlehandedly and nearly win.

*Master Chief from the ''[[Halo]]'' series is definitely one. For one, he has [[Matt Ward|Ward-grade]] [[Heresy|plot armor]]. Seriously, it was repeated throughout the games that he was born with the word [[What|'''LUCK''']]. To further expand on his Sueness, this 7-foot tall hunk of raging Leprechaun saved the entire Galaxy ''Twice!'', single-handedly stopped the Human-Covie War at the last minute, escaped and defeated an entire race of "Super-Space-Zombie-Fungus" that could mindfuck Culture-tier Civilizations without [[What|having his own brain being raped]], is one of the last surviving SPARTAN II's, solo an entire legion of Covenant Honor-Guards (Which are equivalent to Spacemarine Captain in rank but with inferior gear and training) as well as successfully assassinating a very important Covie leader protected by said Guards without being captured, survived escaping an Exterminatus-level explosion that destroyed a Super-Weapon 'Ring' by ''out-flying it'', somehow his armor is strong enough to deflect Fuel-Rod shots (Which are essentially Plasma Cannons), destroy a flying and mentally psychotic lightbulb with an overcharged Lascannon as a Self-Defence weapon (To be fair 343 Guilty Spark ''is'' a Forerunner Janitor Robot), and did I mention he saved the entire Galaxy ''twice''? Furthermore with the release of Halo 4, MC is now magically gifted the genes and DNA by the Librarian to become full on [[RAGE|''impervious to a fucking Forerunner Super-Weapon/Death-Beam'']], which allows him to single-handedly fight through the insides of a very important Forerunner Capital Ship filled with Necron/Warp-Spiders kill bots and somehow through the act of plot, [[Derp|defeat ''the'' highest ranked Forerunner Military General that has the power to solo the entire Galactic Empire from Star Wars.]] I mean [[Rage|WTF!]] did the developers of Halo not realize that they just created a character with plot-armor so powerful that they make the likes of [[Kaldor Draigo]] look decent in comparison? Thankfully however, as pants-on-head retarded as some of the feats listed for MC are, he at least has some faults such as being psychologically raped in childhood, doesn't have the "Morally Superior to thou" personality and has a very grim view of the war, almost got killed by the killer space popcorn, being rather mediocre for a SPARTAN II when compared to his other colleagues, is only good in leadership and even then made some stupid mistakes, gets pretty beaten the fuck up by a Brute, his Superhuman abilities only stopped when fighting against low-ranked Elites and know he will lose against one if he fought one-by-one, and most of the battles he has been through had almost cost him his life. Those faults listed are what makes good old Chiefy ''NOT'' in the top 10 most powerful Mary-Sues and makes him somewhat tolerable albeit boring compared to the other listed.

*Moka Akashiya from Rosario + Vampire: Stupidly fucking OP enough to one-shot kick '''EVERY OTHER FUCKING MONSTER''' IN THE '''ENTIRE FUCKING SERIES''' AND '''BOTH''' SEASONS, has a ''special exception'' to her power levels made so she gets 'first ancestor' vampire blood to enable her to be ''even more powerful'', has no character development ''at all'' (this is true of both her personalities), is a student at an academy and one-shot kicks two members ''of the fucking faculty'' '''AND TOTALLY GETS AWAY WITH IT''', and is ''unbearably arrogant'', revelling in her power and basically saying everyone else is beneath her. The reason she's this bad? The author admits he LOVES vampires. So she's not only an Author Avatar, but a Canon Sue as well, existing only for [[Heresy|heretical deviants]] to fap to and the author to [[Slaanesh|schlick]] to. God-Emperor fucking damn it, Akihisa Ikeda. You little shit. What's worse is that [[Matt Ward|he has no shame about it]]. [[C.S.Goto| No, really]].
**This is lessened slightly during S1's later episodes (and S2 more generally), with a number of non-vampire characters who rather easily take her down or otherwise outmatch her being introduced. Compared to the big leagues, she's a promising new recruit but not comparable to them.

*Mordenkainen, Gary Gygax's personal avatar in the Greyhawk setting and a level 30 wizard who never fucking ages past 50 despite being a hundred fucking years old without turning into a lich, he became bald for some reason, which makes him look evil, but he remains Stupid Neutral.

*Olympia Vale, another character from the [[Halo]] Series and seems to be all around taking over the mantle of Mary Sue from Master Chief as he is pushed in the sidelines like an old man being pushed in the old folks home. Whilst Locke has been accused for being a rather bland and forgettable copycat cutout of the original MC, he still pales in comparison to that of Vale. Essentially imagine Vale as MC but remove the sociopathic and borderline mentally damaged aspects of John 117, make her a prodigy even beyond that of Spartan recruits which in turn made her pretty easy to integrate in the SPARTAN IV program and make her instantly learn the language of the Elites whilst by herself in space with the only excuse being that [[Bullshit|'she was bored'.]] Vale and to an extent, the majority of the SPARTAN IV's seem to be an ongoing campaign from Karen Traviss (AKA the Destroyer of Fluff and Halo's Matt Ward) [[Derp|to further demonize Halsey and her SPARTAN II program]] for no better reason other than being forced to be [[Fail|unethical in an organization as ethically sound as the]] [[Inquisition|Imperial Inquisition.]] As you can imagine, this has already spurred some [[Skub|ire bitching]] in the Halo community and only time will tell if newer sequels from the game would flash her character out in a more decent or obscene matter.

*Ozymandias, AKA, Adrian Alexander Veidt from ''Watchmen''. He was born into a wealthy family, then threw it all away and earned even more money. He's a perfect athlete, good-looking, smartest man in the world (He mind fucked Dr. Manhattan, a blueish godlike superhuman) and a vegetarian. In the book he is able to successfully genetically engineer some sort of monster that would be teleported to New York and as it dies unleash a psychic shockwave that would kill millions in a "common enemy" plot to avert World War 3 by uniting them against "interdimensional aliens" (he does the same in the movie, but instead of aliens, he tricks people into making Dr Manhattan their common enemy - Dr Manhattan himself goes along with the plan once he finds out so there will be world peace). The only downside he had is loneliness, since he had betrayed all his friends and killed the only companion in his life, a fucking genetically-engineered female lynx named Bubastis, by having her bait Dr. Manhattan to the incinerator and killed them both with a switch. Still, Ozymandias is perfect because Mary Sue don't need friends. It was also portrayed that his "common enemy" scheme to stop World War 3 (which involved killing millions) in a positive or at least sympathetic light. He also caught a bullet fired from a gun with his bare hands, and the bullet didn't just go through them, like it would in real-life, despite him not having superpowers. Interesting to note that he the idol he worships: Alexander of Macedonia, is a man born before Christ, and the name Ozymandias is reference to a freaking [[Necron|Egyptian pharaoh: Ramses II]], proving that Adrian is just as egoistic as [[Dante]] and the [[Ultramarines]] by have the name of an ancient ruler as his own nickname. Hell, his color page on "before the watchman" made him looked like some sort of floating Jesus!! Thankfully, he has the decency to acknowledge what he did was wrong in the comics while also justifying it as being for the greater good...which it was in that it stopped World War 3, and he is more complex and well rounded as a character than several others.
** There's also the deliberately ambiguous implication that Ozymandias could get some comeuppance in the future (author Alan Moore stated that what happened after the end of the graphic novel is for each reader to decide for themselves); this is done with Dr Manhattan's cryptic response to Ozymandias' question whether things would work out, and Rorschach giving his journal - containing evidence implicating Ozymandias and revealing his plan - to a news outlet.
** A direct sequel to Watchmen called "Doomsday Clock" came and finally made Ozymandias pay for what he has done. After the news outlet ousted Veidt's plans, it started a chain of reaction that eventually led to his downfall as well as the supposed end of humanity. The European Union dissolved, the USSR went back its old warmonger ways with their relation between the US degrading to lows below even the Cold War, nuclear weapons failed to be disarmed and one such missile was fired from Russia to New York City. Adrian is now the most wanted man in the world and has brain cancer (possibly ironically validating what he framed Dr. Manhattan for). Still, he managed to fight his way out of this chaos with other DC heroes (Superman and the godamned Batman mind you, characters with thick plot armor), the Comedian (brought back by Manhattan), pretty much everyone around the world but especially Dr. Manhattan (who masterminded this all from his glass palace on Mars). Also, keep in mind this sequel is not written by Alan Moore himself so it's at best considered an alternate continuity.

*Prometheus (the DC supervillain) certainly didn't ''start'' as this but ended up being twisted into one. When first introduced he was a genuinely cool and intimidating supervillain whose insane skill and manipulations were balanced out by his crippling mental issues (which the heroes exploited to take him down). Unfortunately, writers who weren't as skilled as Grant Morrison got their paws on him and made him ludicrously overpowered to the point where he single-handedly ''destroyed Star City, killing Roy Harper's daughter in the process''. Thus Prometheus went from an awesome member of Batman's rogues gallery to a complete waste of pages. Thankfully he was prevented from becoming any worse thanks to Green Arrow putting an arrow through the bastard's skull.

*Ramsay Bolton (show version): Oh good fucking God, where to start with this particular Villain Sue? Well, for one, he manages to take on twenty of the best Ironborn warriors, who were all heavily armed and armored, while not just unarmored but SHIRTLESS and armed with nothing but a kitchen knife and a mace, and SOMEHOW kicks their asses. Then, much later, he is shown to completely annihilate the battle-hardened Stormlander army led by Stannis Baratheon, the greatest military commander in Westeros, with nothing but cavalry, while the previous episodes had established that Ramsay is a tactically inept moron. (This can also tie in with the fact that the writers of the show seriously fucked over Stannis from "stern-but-honorable competent tactical genius" into "greedy, fanatical dumbass"). Finally, he is constantly shown to get his way no matter how stupidly contrived it seems to the viewer, arguably the worst case being marrying and deflowering Sansa Stark by raping her and getting the killing blow on fan-favorite giant Wun-Wun. His Sueness ends with his face getting caved in by Jon and fed to his own hounds by Sansa.

*Rey AKA Ma-Rey Sue from the [[Star Wars]]. From the release of the first movie, she already caught some backlash among the old guards of Star Wars who consider her a self-insert Mary Sue with a feminist agenda. Leaving aside the politics, the resulting trilogy and related events have only confirmed Rey’s Mary Sue-dom. Reasons from the first movie alone include Rey showing [[What|a better knowledge of the Millennium Falcon’s inner workings than then Han Solo and Chewbacca]] who’d maintained the ship for decades where she had it for less than a week, being offered a job by Han shortly after meeting him despite him and Chewie being sufficient crew for the Falcon and Han being a cynic who barely knows her (like something right out "A Trekkie's Tale"), Rey suddenly being a [[Wat|powerful Force user who can resist a trained Force-user's mind probe]] despite no previous mention of her being Force sensitive and [[Bullshit|Rey performing said Jedi mind trick while in captivity almost immediately after learning she's Force Sensitive]] despite the fact that performing said trick is known to be difficult to master (to be fair, Rey had just been in telepathic contact with somebody who knew how to pull off a Mind Trick, and wasn't as good at telepathic interrogation as he thought he was). Rey’s only character flaw is recklessness, and while it does get her captured by the villains in the first and third films, this is offset by Rey getting rescued unharmed both times by luck/plot armour, which is a Sue-ish trait (at least Luke suffered actual setbacks and injuries – such as a severed hand and failing to save Han from Boba Fett). Furthering Rey’s status of Mary Sue is the “creator's relationship to the character” part, with several of the filmmakers either pulling new explanations out of their asses to explain Rey’s abilities (or retconning them, such as the Force “cheat-coding” and the “Force Dyad”) or attacking anyone who didn’t like the character by tarring them with the same negative brushes ([[SJW|accusations of sexism got lots of usage]]). The third film threw in the big twist that Rey is ''really'' Rey '''Palpatine'''. You heard right, Rey is literally Emperor Palpatine's ''granddaughter'', almost as if they're trying to one-up Luke’s relation to Vader. The third film also ends with Rey taking the last name “Skywalker” while Luke and Leia’s force ghosts look on approvingly. For a more comprehensive coverage on why Rey is a Mary Sue, look up the results of the Mary Sue Litmus test on the discussion page.
** While it could be argued that Luke and Anakin are just as ridiculous, they fit easier the form of tropes they are. Luke, being the most classic [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheHero Hero] ever, is quickly established as good at most things he does, culminating in flying an X-Wing through the Death Star trench and making an one-in-a-million shot to destroy the Death Star, and this is less than a week before he was just a backwater farmboy, albeit one who is outright stated to be both a decent pilot and skilled shot. Though while Luke used the Force untrained like Rey did, his only feats were enhancing skills he already had and developed; a stretch, but more plausible than pulling new skills ''that require training to use'' out of nowhere. Anakin is the [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChosenOne Chosen One], and people who are chosen tend to be skilled and powerful regardless because the Powers-That-Be have their backs on top of any personal skills they have. Young Ani competes and wins a pod-race that only aliens can normally participate in due to the sheer insanity of it, and then blows up a Trade Federation Dreadnought with a fighter he'd never been in before (even then kid Anakin also had R2-D2's help). Again, no problem. Now Rey is about as much the Hero as Luke but is an Unchosen One compared to Anakin, and the wildest thing she does in her first movie is to use the Force untrained (much like Luke does in A New Hope) and gain the upper hand on a Sith apprentice. Why people doesn't expect her to be [[-4 Str|as powerful]] as [[Lawful Good|Luke]] and [[BBEG|Anakin]] is better left for another discussion entirely, though the fact that Rey is touted as a strong female character while being propped up by the failures of men and saved by men throughout the trilogy doesn't help her case. Also, Rey has never once lost a fight in the movies, while Anakin first got his arm chopped off in a hilariously one-sided fight with Dooku then later had all his limbs cut off and was lit on fire in his duel with Obi-Wan, and Luke was totally outmatched by Vader in The Empire Strikes Back and got his ass handed to him on a beskar platter.
** Another thing to consider is the ridiculous timeline of Episode 7 and 8. In approximately 5-6 days, Rey went from being a scavenger on Jakku to defeating Snoke's bodyguards and being on par with Kylo Ren in combat.

*Richard, from the Sword of Truth series (he's not as bad in the TV series). He is always considered an ideal hero despite being cruel, sociopathic, and thinking that the universe should bend over backwards for him [[What|(which it actually does)]]. Everyone who disagrees with him is evil (even if that's the only reason they're considered a villain) or turns evil. Gratuitous rape is thrown in by the author as a cheap way to make him look better (making villains as reprehensible as possible doesn't solve the problem of the protagonist being completely un-heroic).

*Richard B. Riddick, from the Riddick universe. Vin Diesel's personal self-insert inspired from his own D&D Rogue. Didn't start out as a Mary Sue though, going from a sensible power level ''(where a fist-fight with a morphine-addicted merc is reasonably fair)'' with dubious morality and a lovably snarky badass attitude. Later becoming ''(particularly amongst the directors cuts)'' a superpowered badass who can single-handedly take on squads of soldiers with a knife, resist soul sucking, commune with animals and make threats with [[Just as Planned]] modes of killing. ''("kill you with my teacup" / "dead in 5 seconds")'', oh... he can also explode as shown in the director's cuts and off-screen in the video games. His later portrayals also show his morality becoming a "told you so" mentality, where, when people die it's really because they are the assholes and nothing to do with Riddick.

*Rick Sanchez, of Rick and Morty, in seasons 3+. (See Rick under "Special Cases", below; the only reason we're not moving him here completely is because Rick and Morty arguably became an ''entirely'' different show between seasons 2 and 3.)

*Roran, from the Inheritance Cycle. He started as a farmer-apprentice blacksmith, yet he managed to become an invincible warrior, charismatic presence, expert orator and master strategist without any training. We are talking of a young man who soloes 194 soldiers in a melee battle and wins without taking any major injuries. He then survived a public flogging severe enough to be an alternative to execution despite it being not long after that battle. He also beat an Urgal in a wrestling match despite the Urgal being stronger, bigger, better trained and having horns. In the third book he even single-handedly defeated a Ra'zac; a race that are to humans what wolves are to sheep. Then in the final battle Roran bested the magically-enhanced warrior who killed the elf-queen, and did so without magic or special weapons of his own. Yes, Roran managed to achieve feats that even elves would consider impossible. While his cousin Eragon has the (weak) excuses of magical enhancement and helping from his dragon companion, Roran doesn't. He is a common man who, for plot reasons, creates a plot armor just by thinking about his girlfriend.

* Sarah Kerrigan from the Starcraft series has become this more and more as time passes. In the first game she's just a terran ghost (psionic assassin) who gets turned into a human-zerg hybrid and disappears from the plot after like two or three missions in the zerg campaign, but then she becomes one of the main villains of the expansion pack and everyone else in in the game becomes a thundering dumbass so she can look like a master manipulator despite being played for a sap by yet another character, and commits several atrocities to serve herself and her own agenda but is not punished them in any way despite multiple characters swearing revenge on her. Then the sequel ramped it up. Out of fucking nowhere she is designated the savior of the galaxy from the new villain in town with virtually no justification offered except that Blizzard were too cowardly and attached to the the character to follow through on people wanting her dead. She gets purified of zerg corruption and another character who's more fun and interesting gets killed off so she can live. The zerg campaign centers on her and shows her doing yet more pointlessly-cruel and destructive things in the name of petty revenge, its only concessions to the ridiculousness of letting her live being some half-hearted acknowledgements of her past crimes. And after a pair of pointless guest appearances in the protoss campaign and its prologue campaign, she gets picked by the last good Xel'Naga in the universe to receive his essence and become a Xel'Naga herself so she can defeat the main villain in a laser beam-off. And after her boyfriend, a better-written character who spends all his time getting shit on throughout the series, is seen moping in a bar at the end of the final campaign, she gets to ass pullingly make him a Xel'Naga too, for some moron's idea of resolving their relationship with happily ever after ending.

*Sakamoto from 'Haven't You Heard? I'm Sakamoto' never fails at anything and always manages to look [[Awesome]] no matter what he is doing or how much the other characters try to sabotage him, and it is hilarious.

*Selene, from the 'Underworld' movies. Throughout the series, she bears several similarities to [[Alice]]; both are experts with weapons, both have superior biology to their respective species (humans for Alice, Vampires for Selene), both kill their way through swarms of enemies without getting a scratch, both have little regard for their source material, and both are played by the wives of the directors of their respective film series.

*Sun Crusher, from [[Star Wars]]. Possibly one of the few cases where a Mary Sue was not a character, but a ''superweapon''. This...thing first came under the much [[Skub]] Jedi Academy books and was considered so fucking overpowered its mere existence created more plotholes than [[Erda]] would have pushed out. Hated by basically everyone in the fandom, this fucking trainwreck of a superweapon was small and fast as hell, had weapons that could [[Exterminatus|destroy an entire star system]] and has armor so powerful it could even [[Wat|tank a glancing hit from a ''Prototype Death Star''.]] Seriously, there was one case where the Sun Crusher destroyed an entire ISD by simply [[RAGE|''ramming into the fucker''.]] And you thought Goku's power wanking was filthy, this abomination makes the [[World Engine]] look limp-dicked in comparison. Considered one of the worst examples of Legends' superweapon power creep, this overpowered mess of an idea almost broke the Star Wars EU itself since anyone piloting this proverbial [[Rape|rape train]] could have single-handily curb-stomped both the Galactic Empire and the Yuuzhan Vong ''combined''. Also, it kinda looks like an ice cream cone for some reason.

*Squirrel Girl from Marvel Comics is another one of these Sues who's actually popular and enjoyed for it, probably because she's played entirely for laughs: Doreen Grey is a [[Mutant]] teenage girl with Spider-Man levels of strength/speed/agility, can grow bone knuckles, can talk to squirrels (and have them do her bidding) and has the ability to defeat any villain she wants off-screen. This includes big-name villains like Doctor Doom (she beat him in her first appearance and several times afterwards, and this is a rare instance of a Doom-related incident that was ''not'' smoothed over with the "Just a Doombot" excuse), Ego the Living Planet (who is, like his name suggests, a planet, meaning that a teenage girl beat up a planet), Thanos (who is one of the biggest badasses of the Marvel Universe, but the writers saved his face by replacing him in this instance with a perfect copy of him), Deadpool (whom she calls the mean, mean man; he's actually scared of her), M.O.D.O.K. and tons of other people. She was once part of a C-list superhero team, but quit because she thought she was holding them back (which she was entirely correct about: she once apologized to them for being late because she had to beat a 100' space dragon) and left for Marvel's Nexus of the Multiverse: New York. Despite her unapologetic Mary Sue-ness the fans love her and see her as the one spot of light in the otherwise relentlessly [[grimdark]] Marvel Universe, because again, she's played entirely for laughs and there's nary a title in Marvel Comics that couldn't do with more laughs.

*[[Superman]] in the hands of a poor writer. He is morally perfect, one of the strongest beings in the DC universe, and his one weakness that's supposed to kill him never works <s>ex: he lifts an entire continent of Kryptonite after being stabbed by a dagger made of it</s> thankfully ''Superman Returns'' had so many plotholes that ''Man of Steel'' declared it all non-canon. The only reliable way to nerf him is to have Batman beside him, because Superman always becomes a dumbass when Batman is around (go watch DCAU Justice League to see for yourself). Good writers can avoid falling into this by having him go up against villains who can genuinely threaten him (such as General Zod, Maxima or Doomsday; in fact, the writers made Doomsday specifically to be a threat who can physically match Superman), showing that even with all his vast powers there are things Superman just can't do (in one tragic story it turned out that even though he can benchpress planets, he can't stop his parents from dying of cancer) or emphasizing that his strong morals are not intrinsic to him, but a product of a happy childhood, caring parents and a network of close friends, and he wouldn't necessarily have them if he were raised somewhere less pleasant (like, say, Planet Apokolips or the Soviet Union - both actually happened in Elseworlds stories, look it up) or if those close to him were taken away (like in the Injustice and Kingdom Come comic series).

*Tauriel, Peter Jackson's special snowflake from ''The Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug'' (a Mary Sue in something related to Tolkien; [[Tolkien|Beren and Luthien are deep and well-written enough to get a pass]], this is a sad day). Not content with undermining or retconning the book, Jackson creates a special snowflake elf OC. Tauriel's ridiculously skilled at fighting to the point she matches Legolas in archery - and he's pretty OP in the films (as shown when she shoots an arrow at him when he surprises her, he returns fire and their arrows collide with each other) - she also has healing powers. According to all of Tolkien's books, only a select few elves can heal people such as Lord Elrond Half-Elven, wielder of one of the three Elven Rings of Power, some who's studied healing for millennia and is a direct descendant of the Kings of the Noldor; all things which Tauriel lacks. In addition, she's ship-teased with canon-characters Legolas (who never appears, or even gets mentioned, in the book - albeit he was shoehorned into the film to cash in on his popularity with fangirls and his presence makes some sense since his father Thranduil was in the book) and Kili. To be fair, some of the ship tease between Kili and Tauriel is well handled as well, in particular when Kili teases her and then tells her stories when locked in prison.

* Tobias (or Takuto in the original Japanese) from the Pokémon anime. His design looking like someone was trying ''way'' too hard to make him seem "mysterious" and "badass" is just the tip of the iceberg. For starters, he has ''at least'' two legendaries in the form of Darkrai and Latios, despite the anime earlier establishing how difficult it was for even Frontier Brains (who are trainers deliberately selected by Battle Frontier head honcho Scott from among the best of the best) to acquire and control Pokémon of such caliber. How he got such Pokémon is never explained. When he faced off against Ash in the Sinnoh League after only getting a few mentions and cameos beforehand, he knocked out Ash's entire team while losing only the aforementioned Darkrai and Latios, then went on to win the league and essentially disappear from the show entirely. To put it simply, he was clearly only put in the anime to prevent Ash from winning so that he wouldn't end his journey - which didn't even make any sense, since Ash had ''already'' won a league (the Orange League) and still continued traveling and training; as a matter of fact, it would be out of character for a spirited competition hound like Ash to sit on his laurels no matter how many awards and accolades he won. While Tobias wasn't the first character to knock Ash out of a league competition and wouldn't be the last, him being an inexplicably absurdly overpowered trainer who blatantly only existed to keep Ash from winning made him by far the most hated.

* Tyrion Lannister from Game of Thrones, most of it strictly in the show (especially in the later seasons), much, much less in the books. He is exceedingly smart, capable of fighting against trained soldiers double his size, ends up at Daenarys' court despite her having more than ample reasons to distrust him, gets in charge of Mereen for no reason given when Daenarys disappears, runs a complete shitshow on top of it and still somehow ends up in her council, where he continues to give advice that is just plain wrong and sets back Daenarys' efforts to retake Westeros. His sheer incompetence in Seasons 7 and 8 should get him at least fired, if not outright executed. Instead, the showrunners abandon his character arc altogether to make him the audience's avatar and the closest thing the setting has to Prime Minister in the end, who also is able to make all of the lords of Westeros follow his idea of an elective monarchy, which he came up with on a whim. This is counterbalanced by his character as portrayed in the books and the earlier seasons (incidentally the ones where GRRM was still actively involved in the production of the series), where he is impulsive, arrogant and extremely vindictive (to the point of murdering his former lover, a prostitute, for sleeping with his father in a jealous rage) towards nearly everyone in his immediate vicinity. To add to this, he is also often too blinded by his hatred for his own family to see the bigger picture; where Tywin gave him the authority to act as Hand of the King in his absence as a last chance to prove his worth for the Lannister name, only for him to disregard all of Tywin's advice and orders out of spite.

*[[Star Trek|Wesley Crusher]]. Wesley FUCKING Crusher. Originating from the same franchise as the original Mary Sue, Wesley is a very young ensign training to be an officer in Starfleet, where he's earned the admiration of many of the bridge officers. He became something of a protege to Captain Picard, who was impressed by Wesley after he showed that he had learned all the controls at the captain's chair when they first met. <s>While not morally perfect or incorruptible Wesley is as close as he can be in most cases</s> He's only moral by Gene Roddenberry's standards ''(which were messed up beyond belief, the man thought it was okay to be a prima donna director but not for children to grieve over dead loved ones, and that's not getting into his corporate shyster practices, anti-religious prejudices and sexism; seriously we're not making any of that up)'', by a normal person's, he's smug and egocentric, along with his [[Deus Ex Machina]] techno skills, which are shown off by making the rest of the crew look useless. He notably also gets the Enterprise into danger before getting it out of it, and never gets called out for it. Many people thought that he was an insufferable little shit, among them Wil Wheaton (the actor who PLAYED the guy... and coming from him, that's saying something). Wesley is even named after Gene Roddenberry, as Wesley was Gene's middle name - or to give Gene's full name, Eugene ''Wesley'' Roddenberry. That said, Wesley gets better once Roddenbery wasn't dictating the story. He does get served a healthy dose of reality in "The First Duty", wherein he lies to cover up the fact that his Academy flight team was doing a dangerous and illegal stunt that got one of them killed and pinned all the blame for the accident on the dead kid. Picard absolutely ''shreds'' him when he realizes what's going on, delivering one of the best speeches of any Trek series in the process, and Wesley faces actual consequences for his actions.

*[[Loli|Young main characters]] in crappy [[Asians|Japanese]] [[anime|animes]] and [[manga]].

*Main characters from Japanese [[Isekai]] light novels. Usually they were nerds or losers whose only interested in a particular underrated hobby/talent in their world, but became a fucking skyrim tier powerhouse once they enter the so-called mysterious otherworld. Upon entering, they became super powerful since their somewhat boring talent suddenly becomes a miracle to the other world residents thus making the main character successful. It is a trend that they will done the following to prove their superiority: wrecking Saturday cartoon villain tier antagonist (usually a reference to the main character's childhood bully) that made even [[Ahriman]] look good, instantly gained many female party members because the main character was an unpopular virgin in their original world (and no males allowed, they are yucky), using their otaku knowledge to solve every problem that was deems unsolvable in the other world (more reason that their useless hobby/talent that was deemed useless has more use in the otherworld). The other world usually consist the cliches of JRPG world: [[Medieval Stasis]], fantasy creatures like dwarves and elves, old European like hierarchy and cultures, monsters, JRPG mechanic. One of many trend of isekai protagonist is that almost all of them have tragic background featuring how they were bullied in high school or parent suicide or some typical Japanese cliches of tragic (such as truck-kun). There are also many situations where authors would made the protagonist suffer by have him stuck in a misunderstood situation, setup by the unlikable villain as an attempt to make him look good. Then again, these kind of self fulfilling characters are authors self insert whom was a victim of a depressing citizens of their society, or they thought. There are a few exceptions to this such as Ainz Ooal Gown, Kazuma Satou or Kazuya Souma who are thrown into situations that requires far more intelligence, planning and Indy Polys than your typical light novel protagonist can muster. Some try to subvert this with mixed results. ''Re:Zero'' is a deconstructive take where its protagonist (Subaru Natsuki) dies painfully over and over and ''over'' again, and eventually confesses to everyone around him that he's completely useless. (Though then he starts learning from his mistakes and becomes more competent-- but '''not''' an uber-badass.)
**[[Tl;dr]], they are [[Cringe]] incarnate. It would have been funny if it wasn't so fucking ''pathetic'', and given the sheer amount of shitty isekai, harem trash plaguing the manga industry, it should ''really'' tell you the lack of self-esteem on whoever wrote these fucking abominations of literature.

*Drift from [[Transformers]] is a particularly fascinating and useful case study, as he not only is a good example of a Sue, but is also a prime example of how a Sue can be redeemed into a legitimately [[Awesome]] character. Beginning life as the original character of a newbie writer named Shane McCarthy, Drift was effectively [[FAIL|every stereotypical Mary Sue fan character trait in a single character]]; super-skilled beyond everyone else, a former member of the bad guys turned good, always right about everything, never allowed to lose, shilled by established characters and the creators, milking his “tragic” backstory for sympathy, characters who dislike him portrayed as close-minded jerks, [[Weeaboo|shallow anime-influences]] like dual-wielding katanas, and an all-around “[[Edgy]] teenager’s idea of cool” aesthetic. But then McCarthy left the series and Drift was handed off to a new writer, James Roberts, and everything changed; Drift was completely reworked as a character and made… ''likable''. Now he was skilled but not to an extreme, his personality was given more depth (most notably rewriting his shallow anime mimicry into a samurai-esque sense of honor and spirituality), he had true flaws and made mistakes he had to suffer or atone for, characters who disliked or disagreed with him were given legitimate reason for it, and even his “villain turned hero” backstory was deconstructed by repeatedly emphasizing that he still has a “bad guy” mentality/instinct he often fights against and which contributes to his aforementioned mistakes, such as being overly-quick to resort to violence or being willing to take part in an illegal conspiracy [[Tau|for the “greater good”]]. In short, he went from an embarrassingly juvenile fan character that everybody wanted dead to a beloved member of the cast who would make many future appearances because people legitimately liked him now. Even more impressively, when his original creator Shane McCarthy returned to the character years later, he demonstrated that he himself had improved significantly as a writer, actually acknowledging and building off the work other writers did with him where most Mary Sue authors would ignore or lash out at anything that undermined their Sue. It all goes to showcase the reason that the “Bad Writer Syndrome” mentioned on the main page exists; sometimes the only thing a Mary Sue needs to not be a Mary Sue is a new writer who isn’t as unhealthily emotionally-invested in the character and has the objectivity/common sense to see what they ''need'' to be rather then what their creator ''wanted'' them to be.

*Judging from the rest of the list, [[Skub|any character you don't like.]]

===Works with more than too many of them===
*[[In Nomine]]'s Superiors may or may not qualify; if they do, they do so as a block, thus placing them here. The problem here is that each Superior is an NPC made to more or less '''be''' their entire organization (''most'' PCs report directly to at least one of them), and thus needs to be larger-than-life. Ultra high-powered NPCs plus Strong Personalities plus Needing to Show Up Frequently is a formula only in need of a small amount Bad Writing or Poor GMing to go into hardcore Suedom. On the "possibly further from Suedom" side, all the Superiors have exploitable character flaws, but the result is still an edifying example of why High Powered NPCs are a problem.

*Sonichu, made by you-know-who. To make a long article short, just about anyone who is friends with the author or from some franchise <s>s/he/it</s> they like gets to be overwhelmingly hax and unbound by the laws of morality, everyone who isn't is pretty much either nonexistent or very very evil (the latter guaranteed for any character representing someone the author has a personal beef with).

*[[Twilight]]
**[[Derp|Bella Swan]]: Though she is a pretentious, manipulative, male-dependent, self-pitying downer who takes her parents for granted and makes no time for her friends, Bella is adored by all. Her first day of school is supposedly hard for her, despite the fact that every person she meets instantly presents her with a best friend badge and/or falls in love with her. She's also clumsy EXCEPT when there's a moment where she'll die if she does something clumsy. Add being a painfully obvious author surrogate and even being the product of one of the author's dreams (SMeyer admitted that herself), "clumsy" Bella is ''the'' Mary Sue of her generation.
**[[FAIL|Edward Cullen]]: This character is the reason the popularity of vampires took a massive hit when the book came out. Possibly the most rage-inspiring aspect is he introduced the idea that vampires [[What|SPARKLE HARMLESSLY LIKE DIAMONDS IN SUNLIGHT]]! He can read minds, is nearly impossible to kill, doesn't have the vampire weakness to holy objects despite seeing himself as an abomination against God, doesn't feed off humans despite his literal bloodlust (except for criminals or "those who deserve to die"), is always fashionable, owns exotic and expensive cars, and is ridiculously rich and multi-talented. Despite being a textbook case of an emotionally abusive and controlling boyfriend to Bella, he's always treated as having the moral high ground... except when he refuses to make Bella a vampire, but that gets swept under the rug as soon as he changes his mind.
**[[Anal circumference|Jacob Black]]: A Native American werewolf and the third side of the franchise's infamous love triangle. He commits sexual assault on Bella by forcing a kiss (a line not even Edward crossed), trolls the vampires and switches sides between the werewolves and the vampires without consequence. The worst part is when he [[FATAL|falls in love with Bella's and Edward's newborn daughter because of some kind of weird werewolf pheromone thing, practicing wife husbandry on her as soon as she can walk and talk... and all the other characters are fine with this]]. The story also gushes about his looks to the point that the movie doesn't go five minutes without the character taking off his shirt and the camera focusing on his muscles.

*Warhammer unfortunately has several examples, many of them a result of Matt Ward's bad writing. They get much better in the hands of more skilled writers, or in [[If the Emperor had a Text-to-Speech Device|parodies]].
**[[Cato Sicarius]]. Seriously this guy is Mary Sue's Mary Sue. He was born to a noble house on Talassar, trained with a sword as soon as he could hold one, and was inducted into the Ultramarines. He got commendation after commendation, going from sergeant to company champion to Captain of the 2nd Company in several decades. He refined lightning assaults to near perfection and knows what to do after giving the battlefield only a quick glance. He leads a company of mini-Sues, each squad having a special title for some great feat, such as their Devastators having somehow destroyed a Titan and a tactical squad that hasn't taken a casualty in close to 100 years. He is not only captain of the 2nd Company but "Master of the Watch", "Knight Champion of Macragge", "Grand Duke of Talassar", and "High Suzerain of Ultramar". Seriously, those last two titles are [[pretend|completely made up]]. He's a complete dick, valuing glory for himself and his company over all else. He outright admits to his men that he didn't care about the planet Damnos when they were battling the Necrons over it (where he got his ass handed to him by a no-name Necron Lord). He also decided to appoint himself judge, jury, and executioner for Uriel Ventris when he broke from the Codex, even though they're the same rank and only the Chapter Master has the right to do stuff like that. Oh yeah that reminds me, to top it all off most of the chapter thinks he's next in line to be Chapter Master, instead of Captain Agemman of the first company, even though he's got much (see fuck-tons) more experience than Sicarius. Add all that to the Mary Sue-ness of being a Space Marine and being in the Ultramarines and it reaches critical levels.
*** More recent works have deconstructed and played with this: his glory-hound behaviour and massive ego have put his company at extreme risk multiple times, with his egotistical behaviour at Damnos contributing rather heavily to the thrashing the Second Company was handed by the Necrons; furthermore, he's been relegated to the effectively ceremonial role of Rowboat Girlyman's bodyguard while the Primarch in question attempts to unfuck the Imperium and train Cato to be less of a massive prick. On top of this, he's established to have some pretty severe PTSD after being lost in the Warp near the start of the Indomitus Crusade, which knocked a good deal of his former brashness out of him.
**[[Eldrad|Eldrad Ulthran]], and what's worse: he knows he is, and is a complete dick about it. Though he was recently imprisoned by his Craftworld for trying to help the Imperium and messing up Ynnead's ascension. He then joins the Ynnari after being shunned by his Craftworld.
**[[Kaldor Draigo]]. Wrote his mentor's name into Mortarion's heart without contracting Spess AIDS, or being fucking destroyed by said Primarch which despite each of those 19 (21?) being capable of rolling through a squad of Custodes without too much effort. Then he got schllupped into the Warp and somehow remains pure.
***Like Sicarius, other authors have taken steps to reduce the Sue factor of Draigo by showing him as a moderately flawed character and retconning some of the more egregiously Sue-ish moments - see the 'Placed in the hands of other authors' section of his page for examples of this.
**[[Marneus Calgar]], especially post-Ward. Killing an Avatar of Khaine by punching its chest in and not getting seriously hurt in said fight with one. An Avatar of Khaine is supposed to be as hard to kill as a Bloodthirster, something that takes a Primarch or a Bio-Titan to beat in a one-on-one fight (then again, Games Workshop loves [[Worf|worfing]] Avatars, and Space Marines are their Creator's Pet). Calgar had his limbs chopped off by the Swarmlord, which didn't kill him due to Plot Armor, and he leads the Ultramarines, themselves considered a Mary Sue chapter in a Mary Sue faction (see the Space Marine entry on this page). These are just the first few examples.
**[[Captain Matthias Ward]], I am the better Mary-Sue.
**The [[Primarch]]s <s>and their [[Warhammer High|daughters]].</s>{{BLAM|'''THOSE WORDS ARE BLASPHEMY! /tg/ can only create perfection!'''}} (To be fair, the daughters are only Sues in that they inherited their Sue traits from their fathers.)
**[[Uriel Ventris]] - despite initially coming off as a subversion of Wardian Ultramarines-are-the-best Mary Sue bullshit, he quickly devolves into [[Skub|Ultramarines are the worst unless they use the Codex to wipe their asses and act like Space Wolves]] - which is pretty much limited to - guess who? - McNeill's OC-Do-Not-Steal Special Snowflake Ventris.
** [[Iskandar Khayon]] is a pretty awesome villain, but some of the stuff he does is just unbelievable, though some of that may be because his book is actually him telling the events to his enemies while captured, so he may be lying about a lot of it to fuck with them.

*World of Warcraft:
**Kalecgos (AKA Kalec), blue dragon who can disguise himself as a human-elf hybrid; from [[World of Warcraft|World of Warcrabs]]. Ham-fistedly inserted into the Blood Elves' redemption story arc as an enabler. Later he takes over the blue dragonflight even though he's not the oldest, wisest or most powerful blue dragon, but simply because he was the only surviving named blue dragon with anything approaching a personality. Later he hooks up with Jaina Proudmoore, a powerful human mage/noblewoman/faction leader introduced in Warcraft III. She does this in spite of their vast age difference (which made her reject an Elven prince who loved her) and bad track record with lovers. Though Kalecgos later disbanded them as an organization, he's still the go-to blue dragon (despite older, more powerful ones like Azuregos and Senegos still being in the lore).
**Jarod Shadowsong, a Night Elf commander shoehorned into the setting in books "War of the Ancients" and "Wolfheart", by Richard Knaak. Brother to canon character Maiev Shadowsong, love interest to Shandris Feathermoon, - Tyrande's adopted daughter with both characters canon since WC3 (Shandris in case you don't recognize her, is that one Elf archer with a unique model present in the first two and last Night Elf missions in ''Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos'') - and the Night Elves greatest war hero after Furion and Tyrande themselves. His mere presence raises morale so much that people, to quote the book, "automatically fight harder and obey him with greater swiftness". He survived a one-on-one fight against Archimonde, a demon lord who can destroy cities single-handedly, because he suddenly decided to toy with Jarod even though time was of the essence. Said war saw various Night Elf DEMIGODS place themselves under Jarod's command! He also lacks any personality beyond humble hero and has no character flaws that effect him negatively. He spends thousands of years after the first fight against the Burning Legion resting on his laurels and doesn't show up when they invade the second time, but no-one calls Jarod out on this in-universe. On top of this, Shandris' love for him is poorly written and makes no sense. Her feelings were puppy love, and after that, Shandris had had no contact with Jarod for ''thousands of years'' until they met again during the Cataclysm. And when they met, Shandris propositioned Jarod '''at his wife's funeral'''. This bears repeating; Shandris pursued someone who she hadn't spoken to for millennia and who was married to someone else by trying to hook up him before his wife's body was even cold (and Shandris is not that kind of ignorant/thoughtless/crazy/predatory person).
**Krasus (AKA Korialstraz) a high-ranking red dragon, mainly due to the author's overuse of him, and said author is also Richard Knaak. He disguises himself as an elf, and said elf is one of the leaders of the Kirin Tor. On top of this, he's Consort/Adviser of the Dragon Queen, he might as well be the Dragon King considering how much importance Alexstraza puts on him and how few decisions she makes until after he's gone. He also gets sent back in time to partake of a historical event despite the fact HIS YOUNGER SELF WAS AROUND IN THAT TIME. He also set up another Mary Sue in Warcraft, Rhonin (NOTE; both characters were created by the same author). To be fair, Krasus is tame compared to most WoW examples listed here.
**Med'an, half human, one quarter draenei and one quarter orc. This alone should set your alarm on. Let's add that he is the son of Garona and Medivh, two quite important lore characters, with the latter being one of the most powerful mortals EVER. Not enough? He is the focus of a prophecy about who will save he world and, thanks to his mixed ancestry, he is skilled in arcane magic (ok, this quite makes sense), but also with the holy light and elements. And, obviously, he saves the world and gains his father's awesome staff and charge.
**Rhonin, human archmage of the Kirin Tor. By Richard Knaak again, Blizzard Entertainment's equivalent of [[Robin Cruddace|Robin Cruddace]]. Knaak made up a new member of the famous Windrunner family just for Rhonin to hook up with. They have half-elf kids who are blessed by dragons despite the fact they've done nothing to earn it (the player characters have done more, but they don't get anything like that; just a few trinkets that will be rendered obsolete by the next expansion), not to mention that those half-elf kids are one of the very rare examples of human-elf hybrids in WoW (the other is Arator the Redeemer, son of legendary characters all the way back in Warcraft 2 - human paladin Turalyon and elven general Alleria). Even the name Rhonin is just the title "Rōnin" (referring to a Samurai with no master during Japan's feudal period) with a few changes to anglicize the name (and, of course, the character doesn't even look Japanese). He gets sent back in time to partake in the first fight against the Burning Legion for no other reason than Knaak wanted Rhonin to be there. He does practically nothing in the game, yet everyone says he's a great hero; even then, he didn't do half the things they praise him for.
**Sylvanas Windrunner from [[World of Warcraft]] (The trend is now a bullet train into Edgytown): Started out as a Fantasy counterpart for Sarah Kerrigan, she's been turning into Fantasy Hitler/Mengele (or rather, was from the beginning). Originally a High Elf ranger in Warcraft III who is killed and turned into a Banshee by Arthas. She sets up the Undercity as a fortress/Horde-run concentration camp for Alliance captives, and has free reign of atrocities ranging from slavery to genocide. Her Royal Apothecary kidnapped innocents to experiment upon under her watch, torturing them for fun and science. While this upset some players, it's not a guarantee of Mary Sue'dom, but the problem becomes obvious as the plot advances. She was already under suspicion before the Wrathgate Incident (she knew about the plague, but not that it would be used on the Horde too), invaded Gilneas, nuked Southshore, waged a torture-filled genocidal campaign on the Humans, manipulated the Horde (and only joined them for selfish gain), built a Cult of Personality around herself, employed the Val'kyr (which even the Death Knights called her out on), resurrected those who she killed against their will despite not liking when it happened to her, shot and killed Liam Greymane then taunted his father Genn about it, attempted to steal the Scythe of Elune to enslave the Worgen to expand her personal army and made a deal with the devil to get the Val'kyr in the first place. The closest she got to any kind of punishment was Lor'thermar threatening to kill her if she raised the Horde's dead as Forsaken, stating he'd leave her to the Alliance if she tried it on their dead and calling her out on several of her actions in Mists of Pandaria - rather weaksauce given the almighty kicking they were giving Garrosh throughout that expansion pack, making him out to be evil incarnate. In Legion, after retreating from the Broken Shore, the crowning moment of Mary Suedom occurs when she ends up being named the next Warchief of the Horde with Vol'jin's dying words, followed by her abandoning the fight against the Burning Legion for a way to cheat death, and everyone in the Horde is okay with this. In the next expansion, the Horde forced the Night Elves out of Kalimdor in the War of Thorns, with Sylvanas pulling an Arthas by forcing the dying commander to watch her burn Teldrassil, an action worse than Garrosh's Bombing of Theramore because Theramore was a military target while the Night Elves had surrendered and Teldrassil was inhabited only by non-combatants. The writers give her plot armor by having "never forsake honor" Saurfang save her life by dealing a dishonorable blow to her opponent. As Sylvanas' atrocities grow barely anyone from the Horde turns against her, and writers pull new powers out of their asses for her culminating in her one-shotting Saurfang and soloing Lich King Bolvar and a horde of undead. The Mary Sue reason on top of all this? She never suffers any ''(literally, ANY)'' setback except Greymane ruining her Val'kyr agenda. All her atrocities and horrors are ignored or turned into heroism, and what's worse, she automatically pulls out the next phase of her agenda out of her ass like some Pentagon's high command after snorting a line of coke each. Her Forsaken, despite horrendous losses and ban on raising unwilling dead, somehow destroys everything with a shred of goodness around her...only for her to get raised to Warchief status like some spoiled prepubescent princess. This issue is compounded by the fact that Sylvanas has a very vocal fanbase and she's the Creator's Pet of at least three of Warcraft's dev team, lead quest writer David Kosak, director Steve Danuser and developer Travis Day (who once insisted [[Skub|she's not evil and just wants to protect the Horde]]). Even with the Shadowlands expansion having Sylvanas as a major villain helping the BBEG, they pull back by shoehorning in a "split soul" plot device to pave the way for her redemption.
**Thrall, the (in)famous Orc Warchief from ''[[Warcraft]]''. Started out cool in WC3 as an Orc orphan raised in a human internment camp who escaped with help from a friend, he led the Orcs because he was the former Warchief's son and a powerful but not story-breaking shaman. By having his forces fight alongside the trolls and Tauren and save them from their enemies he made allies. Though he fucked up by sending Grommash to collect resources from Ashenvale (antagonizing the Night Elves, giving the demons an opportunity to corrupt the Orcs and leading to the death of a demigod who would've been a great help against the Burning Legion), with a lot of help from some allies and another demi-god he sets things right and they kick the Burning Legion's demonic asses off of Azeroth. He still holds the line against threats and tries to make peace, but he's a bit too forgiving of trouble-makers in the Horde (see Sylvanas above and Garrosh below). In the Cataclysm expansion for World of Warcramps, he became Azeroth's premiere shaman and leader of half the world while appointing the <s>[[Skub|VERY CONTROVERSIAL]]</s> <s>balls to the wall violent and universally hated</s> patriotic warmonger Garrosh Hellscream as Warchief of the Horde; despite the protests of several others ''including Garrosh himself'' (who was uncertain he could handle the responsibility of such a role at the time). Takes over as Aspect of Earth from a borderline demigod, and even deals a crippling blow to him when he's empowered by the Old Gods. Even people that were fans of Thrall during Warcraft III have started to get sick of him.
*** The writers appear to have realized what kind of monster they unleashed in Cataclysm and every expansion since has given him a kicking in some way. In Mists of Pandaria Garrosh kicks his ass just before his final fight with the players. In Warlords of Draenor he gets relegated to the sidelines and has [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHwiEbXqh3k another fight with Garrosh], which features a memetastic sequence in which Garrosh pummels his dumb ass while listing his failures. He wins the fight only by cheating and using his shaman powers, and Legion (the expansion) reveals the Elemental Spirits have nerfed him for his blatant haxxing. Even when he begins getting his powers back, you only see that happen if you're a shaman, and he ends up becoming your bitch. Even his big fancy Doomhammer gets misplaced so it can become an Artifact weapon for Enhancement shamans.

*Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" had the most Mary Sues before the phrase existed. In fact her garbage is old enough that the term Mary Sue could be replaced by the name of any one of her characters and it wouldn't change the meaning at all. John Galt<ref>"Eventually, the question you ask stops being 'Who is John Galt?' and becomes 'When will John Galt shut up?'", to quote one common criticism of Galt's famous 56 page speech.</ref>, Dagny Taggart and most of the cast, which figures given her literature's reputation for being barely-disguised political sermon. Galt frequently has the narrative grind to a halt in order to focus on his inane views, somehow single-handedly grinds the economy to a halt by founding a libertarian utopia where no "communists" can hold him or other similar geniuses back, and is shilled as the only sane man after the rest of the world becomes a dystopic hellhole without said "genius". Then there's the primary female character, a wannabe railroad tycoon trying to get a new train line built despite the fact that "evil socialists" can't keep them running without crashing every few hours because of mean ol' unions and regulations oppressing the poor upper class. Said woman somehow manages to bed Hank Rearden, local inventor of a metal alloy supposedly even stronger than steel called Rearden Metal. Yes, just drips with creativity, don't it? It's telling that the Bioshock series, based off her work, is far better received and a more realistic depiction, generally due to taking the prospect of a single man basically playing God to its logical conclusion (I.E. another dystopia but now with blackjack and hookers).
**Nearly all of her works have blatant Mary Sues in them. Best not to bother with a full list because her tree wasting dysentery would take up over half the page. It explains a lot about her psyche that her ideal man was a serial murderer who kidnapped, raped and dismembered young girls.

==Mary Sue Races==
While not every member of a race is a Mary Sue, [[Chakat|with one or two exceptions]], sometimes whole races are considered Mary Sues because they have huge amounts of plot armor and are idealized beyond reason. They were put here as the Mary Sue list was originally conceived for characters. Also, please list them in alphabetical order.

* Although some might find this as [[Skub|arguable]], the characteristics describing the Asari race in [[Bioware|Mass Effect]] are blatantly Mary-Sue. Although not every Asari is a Mary Sue (though some are), when it comes to the general race as a whole, oh boy does their 'Sueness' reach Chakat levels. Examples on what makes them a Mary Sue includes having the second longest lifespan behind the Krogan (over 1000 years, plus they lack the Krogan's violent nature which can easily waste their long lifespans), all of them are biotic users, every one in the game is intelligent, founders of the council, considered sexy by many other species despite being a monogendered species (even Salarians, who lack a sex drive and mate out of necessity, are shown to be attracted to them), and are deliberately oversexualised by the developers so they can be [[Rule 34|Rule 34'ed to death]]. Their race as a whole is portrayed as peace-loving hippies, the best diplomats, the most respected species in the galaxy as well as having a serious case of "Holier/Morally Superior then thou" attitude. Their ship the "Destiny Ascension" is the largest and most powerful ship in the Citadel fleet and their ships perversely resemble a lady's privates because you know they all look like "wominz". Thessia, their homeworld, is regarded as the "jewel" of the galaxy (instead of the fucking Citadel) as well as having the largest amount of Eezo which partially explains how their entire race is biotics. Any asari can 'Read' most people's minds and inner-thoughts with near complete-accuracy, though only if that person agrees to it (they can literally mindfuck you). Furthermore with their way of reproduction, since they are monogendered (Meaning they're all female) a lot of newcomers in Mass Effect start to scratch their heads on how they manage to get each other pregnant without any physical evidence of having a dick (Although one of the hypothesis is that they might actually screw around with the local fauna AKA Bestiality). However the fluff states this as Parthenogenesis, for those that don't know what it is, think of them as chickens....which is actually hilarious if you seriously put the comparison in context. Another odd thing about their reproduction is that somehow the Asari have the capability of getting pregnant from just about '''''Anyone'''''. [[Chakat|Do those traits sound fucking familiar to you?]] So all in all, not only are they a holy (unholy?) fusion of a smurf, elf and a monster girl, but they also commit in sweaty Lesbian/Bestiality/Xenoality orgies with almost everyone, turning the Asari race into nothing more then a giant Whorehouse for Aliens and Humans to fap in a hundred dozen ways and yet they are still ''okay'' with that....<s>Slaneesh approve of this!</s> {{BLAM|'''''BLAM! BLAM! DOUBLE HERESY!'''''}} But to be fair, at least Asari aren't [[Avatar|furries]] or physical [[Chakat|hermaphrodites]].
** Amusingly enough, the third game reveals that the only reason Asari are so much more advanced than the other races is because the Protheans (the super-advanced precursor race) were deliberately manipulating them and sneaking tech to them in their ancient history in order to give them a boost (such as genetically engineering them to be a race of skilled biotics and [[STC|leaving instruction manuals on how to create all sorts of advanced technology and deal with the other races in their "beacons"]]). The hope was that if they were given enough a headstart, the Asari would be able to unite and lead the other races to victory against the Reapers (in other words, they were deliberately ''trying'' to make the Asari Mary Sues in order to give the next cycle an advantage over the Reapers). Instead the Asari government kept that knowledge to themselves and used it to make their race the most powerful in the galaxy. When the Reapers showed up, the Asari leadership buried their heads in the sand on their homeworld like the smurf elf pussies they are, leaving the other races to fend for themselves, then promptly got their asses kicked by the Reapers (Which they probably deserved it for being such [[Eldar|self-righteous and selfish cockbags]]). Perhaps one of the few instances of a Mary Sue being both invoked and subverted. And then humanity steps up and saves the day, because [[Humanity Fuck Yeah|of course we do]].

*[[Angry Marines]]. When was the last time YOU heard of an Angry Marine LOSING? Thought no-{{BLAM}}
{{BLAM|+The current author has been executed by the Inquisition to prevent the total destruction of the Imperium of Man by Angry Marines. Thank you and have a nice day.+}}

* The Draka, once human, then Posthuman slaver empire from the Domination Series by S.M Stirling, collapsing the "Bullying, slaving, torture-happy, heartless Karma Houdini asshole who is the channelized catharsis of the author rather than genuine art." shtick into a black hole the size of the galaxy. South African British colony turns into a nation of literal "[[Drow]] in human skin" when due to (mis)fortune, every losing side from worldwide wars against tyranny gets exiled to Drakia, the British colony named after Francis Drake. Turning chattel slavery into a race-wide, airtight regulated franchise in the case of blacks, they exploit entire Africa by taking the colonies belonging to the enemies of British people. Unifying in a Spartan way of life, completely shedding any morality in the case of slave control, eventually Draka Dominion declares independence from the British Crown, and turns entire Africa into a mega plantation with industrial giants enticed by obscene gold&diamond handouts exploited from Africa. The Draka then adopt Nietzschean ideals, and declare every non-Draka a slave, or a potential slave. Somehow the First World War happens anyway despite massive divergences, and Draka overrun the dying Ottoman Empire, local Turks, after a brief "enserfment" finding great joy in new and better slave soldier living standards ([[/pol/|being able to rape young white captive Finnish boys seems a source of joy for a moustached swarthy Turk]] [[FAIL|whose name and appearance IRL was one of the last good politicians in Turkey]].). When the second World War starts ([[Wat|with a blond and one-eyed Hitler]]) the Draka start turning white people into slaves starting from Italy with approval of Hitler and employ black slave soldiers who are given ample living standards and items with free rape of anyone that is captured.
** This (Post-World War 2) is where the story turns from an [[Edgy]] /pol/-fanfic to pants-on-head retarded FAPfic. Though the series display a very detailed alternate history AND technological evolution (steamer cars phased out far later than combustion engine driven ones due to efficiency and lack of fuel corrosive-resistant metal research), the Draka's endless S&M laden plantation slave bitch fantasy hits overdrive and they simultaneously conquer Russia, Europe minus Britain, and the entirety of CHINA with black soldiers and their white masters that were, mind you, from an Africa that wasn't overpopulated but ecologically protected. They do not lose one, ONE battle while rampaging and raping and enslaving. Their methods are extremely savage: impalement and rape are regular actions at every resistance, and the black soldiers can take out any psychosis forming from mass atrocities on other slaves back home, every capture tortured until completely broken before being enslaved. Their research facilities have *zero* ethics, using up millions of humans in torturous experiments to develop fantastic drugs, bioweapons and medications since, well, their citizens are drilled from age 2 to 18 with a Nietzsche-on-crack ideology to circumvent a sudden case of conscience to heart. Eventually they change the Draka Citizen DNA to that of an immortal superhuman species, destroy the rest of non-Draka armies with [[/pol/|weaponized AIDS]] and make all slaves into docile abhumans and take over the rest of the world, rape all the women and men, destroy every monument and cultural heritage not belonging to them, turn the USA into a hunting reserve to hunt humans like animals (and eat them sometimes- AND make paintings, artworks and monuments ''celebrating'' the rape and slavery of non-Draka of all ethnicities). Then the Draka expand into alternate universes, infiltrating our world and its parallel versions and start taking them over as well and enjoying immortal, eternal exploitation of everyone everywhere forever. What the entire US and UK plus the rest of Asia, Japan, Southeast Asia does is to create an Alliance that walks on eggshells and fucks up every espionage action against the Draka, loses every battle and ends up escaping to Alpha Centauri. S.M Stirling eventually writes a sequel where an alternate Earth has the [[Humanity's_Last_Stand|human Alliance win for a change]], but the damage is already done. We are graced with the endless plantation BDSM fetish fantasy of bisexual, blonde, white, transhuman, constantly horny blue-eyed men and women fucking their farm slaves of either gender and make them work their asses off after breaking them in of every little inch of their personalities. A particularly nasty lesbian Draka is Stirling's Creator Pet: she manages to capture the sister of an American soldier who killed her lover and makes her a slave. She tortures her with a mental chip for years to destroy her brain, forcing her to bear her lover's clone children, and rapes her mentally, and eventually, physically. And her side wins the war, the girl escapes an old ruined wreck into space(albeit back to her brother), and our bitch spends her long, long life to torture and kill surviving Alliance holdouts for fun, happily raping, killing and torturing ever after. Seriously, even Kosak had more of a shred of decency, Stirling. The Draka's only saving grace is that every Draka must devote several hours of their time every day to be on top physical condition by ''law'' and always earn their place, as well as senseless slave abuse is seen as a character sickness.
*** And then, since only another suevilization can stop them at this point, they run into The Culture. The End. (well, we can dream, right?)
**** [[Rape|Or the Xeelee]].
***** Especially the Xeelee. We'd even settle for the Qax.

* The [[Drow]] from [[Drowtales]]. Their Mary Sue factor isn't even funny. Shaped by several inputs from several authors, their Drow are the best example of how too many cooks spoil the broth as well as the main author's high school misanthrophy hitting overdrive. The Drowtales' Drow are practically immortal, have regenerating limbs, never menstruate, possess metals that are impenetrable to other sentient beings and virtually twice as big and a thousand times as powerful as other races to the point of a few drow kids on an adventure can butcher a city with innocents to save their friend who was about to be killed for its blood, since humans, hunted and enslaved for centuries, are desperate to the point of killing elves for their blood just to have an edge. Their houses in underworld have all the modern technology and some futuristic things to boot complete with giant walkers and submarines, modern machinery, PARTICLE RIFLES and magitech street lights, but somehow they need human and other races as slaves and this need is shown as just and necessary right at the beginning with the "good" faction's "surface raiders" murdering an entire village and taking women and children to slave markets because the poor widdle drow need slaves and "[[Wat|It's just their unique morality]]". And the way the webcomic shows them as tragic beings is the cherry on top: I didn't know it was so tragic and sad when the humans counterattack to save their raided relatives from your homes, locked in to be sold as slaves.

* ALL [[Chakat|Chakats!]] The entire fucking race are distilled and purified Mary Sues, sometimes warping stories they are barely even mentioned in. Not just [[monstergirls|feline-centaur]] [[/d/|dick-girls]](Sick Fucks), they're also each master psionicists with faster-than-light mind-reading, able to cure deep neurotic complexes with a good deep dickin', strongest and most stable form of 'Taurs', considered as the most "beautiful thing in the universe" despite looking exactly like lions with the fact that they have dicks, morally perfect to the extreme, nobody technically hates them, their breast milk can turn the most feeble human into mini-Arnold Schwarzeneggers and every non-Chakats seem to have a unnatural and unhealthy lifestyle on trying to "Do it" with them, despite the fact that there are hundreds of ''other'' Catgirls outside of this furfag heresy, that are more attractive, cuter and prettier then them with the added benefit that they are actually female, [[HERESY|not hermaphrodite abominations]].

* [[Elf|Elves]] are often portrayed this way in fiction (Look above at Drowtales), though there are exceptions and it's becoming rarer for elves to be portrayed as Mary Sues. A lot of their sueness comes from how idealized they are. They're always beautiful, sometimes even without making an effort, either immortal or have very long lifespans and can only die from violence. They're often considered to have the moral high ground yet also be condescending to the younger races, but the elves contempt kept getting justified in some stories. Some have the natural ability to make anything beautiful from even the most base materials, naturally have great magical ability, and are often favored by their gods. However, there are evil elves in fiction and some elves who are morally good without being Mary Sues. Then there are curvy anime rapebait elves (often dark elves) who get high on male smells and secretions and turn into thicc fuckdolls taking massive amounts of dicking.
** This depiction usually comes from elves as shown in The Lord of the Rings, which is coincidental as it was the end of the Third age and all the bad elves had long since died off, leaving only the wise and good-hearted ones (like Galadriel). A read of The Silmarillion (the heroic First age where elves and magic were strong forces in the world and loads of [[Awesome]] shit happened) will prove quite pointedly that elves in this setting could be just as flawed, stubborn and downright immoral as humans could. Fëanor for instance. And how. He may have been gifted and intelligent even by the standards of elves, but he was also an obnoxious, arrogant kinslayer with a creepy attraction to his niece's golden hair, and he didn't give two shits about anybody else's concept of morality up to the Maiar themselves, he just insisted single-mindedly on getting his way until it got him pile-drivered to death by balrogs.
** Elves from Eragon are probably the worst example of Mary Sue elves yet. Elves from Eragon move so fast that humans are incapable of tracking their movements, stronger than humans to the point "even the weakest (elf) can easily overpower (a human)" (actual book quote), anything they make even from the most base materials is beautiful and they can run over a hundred miles an hour plus maintain that pace for hours on end. Character wise they're all atheists and vegetarians who are treated as morally and spiritually correct in all regards and there are just one or two evil elves in the story or the background lore. They can destroy entire human armies in minutes yet are somehow on the losing end of a war and have to hide in a forest on the edge of the map, are one of only two races on the planet capable of riding dragons, the other being humans (who literally turn into elves when they start riding the dragon plus elves were the first), are naturally connected to magic to such a level that an elven child can surpass an adult human who has spent their entire life studying magic and, apparently, were the second race in existence, only predated by dragons.

*[[Doctor Who|Whoverse Humanity]] takes this up to a 100 million in this case. Depending on the timeline, Humanity not only manage to become the dominant ruler of the multi-galaxy not once, but [[What|'''Five Fucking Times!''']] Without any indication on how they manage to conquer the Galaxy, thriving with hostile Aliens that could LOLStomp the Necrons, Eldar, Orks, Tau, Tyranid, Chaos in all it's forms and the Imperium ''combined''. Furthermore not only are they one of the [[Imperium of Man|most numerous species in the Universe,]] but also one of the most adaptable and longest lasting race, as seen when they are one of the [[Grimdark|few species still alive near the end of the fucking Universe.]] To give you an idea on how fucking ludicrous Humanity got within Doctor Who, in just 500 years from present day, Humanity was already a major force in the Galaxy ([[Star Trek|Compare this to most Sci-Fi timelines]] [[Bioware|where Humanity either just started to explore their surroundings]] [[Halo|or already establish a small and insignificant area]]), as well as having weapons that could make [[Strike Legion]] seem useless in comparison, and when you take note on how short the timeline distance is between the present day and the end of the Universe, it just makes you say to yourself....the Fuck? Compare this to say [[Star Wars]] in which they have the excuse of not knowing how long Humanity has been space traveling, or [[WH40K]] where the thousands of years gap of slow progress before the Warp Drive was invented seem much more plausible then this absurd scenario. You know Humanity is a Mary Sue when even the near-death of the Universe can't kill them off....until a certain Dues Ex Machina appeared. To be fair, they only gain their Sueness momentum when a certain Time Lord keep on foiling the plans of countless Aliens attempting to conquer and crush humanity in various stages in time; either that or because the Doctor has a unusually unhealthy Humanophile fetish. They are probably one of the few examples of a "Accidental Mary Sue", in which the Doctor, with his fancy Time gizmos and intellect, unintentionally guided Humanity to such power levels by either saving their asses from certain doom or altering the timeline so they won't fuck up, due to his love of Humans. Granted Whoverse Humanity is definitely far from morally perfect (A substantial amount of Whoverse villains are Humans and the multiple Human Empires itself are morally questionable at best. The Timelords themselves are hardly better than the Daleks at times.), the main point of contention is how influentially powerful they are for such a young race while at the same time, disregarding other more ancient and more powerful races (Silurian, Cybermen, Sontarian, Ice Warriors, etc) that should be the one having more galactic screen time and hegemony then them.
**In this case, Whoverse humanity's Mary Sueness can't really be blamed on any one author. It's mostly the result of sheer age causing increasingly severe continuity snarls and the unwillingness of newer writers to change or retcon forty year old fluff.

* Dwarves as seen in the Artemis Fowl series. While virtually all dwarven exploits described are performed by one Mulch Diggums, most of his Mary Sueness is excused as "dwarven racial talents." His saliva can harden into a glowing substance that's strong enough to resist high speed impacts, he can fart hurricanes and shit cannonballs, he can dig a self sealing tunnel through any earth-like substance as fast as a man can run, drink water with his pores, use said pores like suction cups if he's thirsty, hear better than a stethoscope, and has tremorsense to at least a hundred feet. Dwarves are also described as having access to the fairy magic (Common uses include instant healing, invisibility, and mid-grade mind control), but Mulch gave that up to steal things instead. This despite no readily apparent level adjustment, nor any mention of useful powers before those same powers are necessary, puts this race quite firmly in this category.

* LeShay are a race that appeared as a monster in the D&D 3th edition book [[Epic Level Handbook]] and have been completely forgotten about since then like most of what was in that book. They are described as being to elves what elves are to humans only more so. That sentence alone should immediately set off red flags. LeShay are extremely powerful immortals resembling albino elves who are survivors from a civilization that was erased from history. Whoever it was that came up with this race (some of us blame Raymond Feist, for the Valheru) may even have intended for them to be ''anti''-Sues, to foil the elves. As such the concept is defensible, but they probably would have ended up as Mary Sues if any bad writers had gotten a hold of them. Bad writers like Feist.

* The Mandalorians in the Star Wars Expanded Universe, depending on who's writing them. While good under the correct writers, under some of the bad ones (coughcoughKarenTravisscoughcough), they compete with badly written expanded universe Jedi and Sith for the position of Star Wars' Ultrasmurfs. In the pre-Disney expanded universe, ALL Mandos are elite warrior mercenaries, skilled enough to take out heavily armed enemies with their bare hands and usually packing enough firepower to level a building. They're so badass, in fact, that they're known to hunt Jedi for fucking sport because they're the only thing that'll give them a real challenge. Experienced Jedi hunters can be good enough to fight them head on despite all their Force powers and saber swinging because they have the right gear and experience to counter it. Bear in mind that Mandos do not use the Force in any way. Karen Traviss also writes them with the Mary Sue trait of always being right and people agreeing with them for things they call the Jedi out for that they didn't even do, like creating the clone army (one Jedi who wasn't acting on orders from the council requested that, under the manipulations of Palpatine, and it was him and the Senate who ordered the clones to fight), and generally makes them out to be the pinnacle of civilization despite being warmongers with a history of allying with the Sith and trying to conquer the galaxy themselves. One of the best things to come out of Disney buying Star Wars was the fact that the people in charge of the new canon scrapped pretty much all of Traviss' lore, whereupon she flounced off to go ruin the Halo EU and they got down to creating a more three-dimensional and complex society.
** The most famous Mandalorian, Boba Fett, generally avoids becoming this trope and is just a plain badass (as a bonus he rarely if ever engages in the dick-stroking egomania of Traviss's Mandies), but under bad writers his badassitude can push into this. His father Jango Fett follows this same idea; in fact his origin story partly involves his old merc group of Mandalorians getting slaughtered by a group of Jedi in a moment that reads sort of like "fuck you Karen Traviss". Sure, Jango kills six Jedi with his bare hands in that massacre, but the Jedi he killed were not decades old masters and he is (as an individual) supposed to be that good. The fact that he managed that made Palpatine choose him as the Clone Army template donor.
** And now we have the Mandalorian With No Name (until they ruined that joke by giving him one), who has some Sueish traits; he's an excellent bounty hunter and a skilled gunfighter who rarely loses a duel, he's good enough at diplomacy to negotiate with ''Tusken Raiders'', he has a near-full suit of rare and indestructible beskar armour, and pretty much everyone he meets takes a liking to him, even his enemies. That said, he also has a number of flaws: he was raised in an extremist splinter faction that is to normal Mando society what the [[Cult of the Redemption]] are to regular believers in the [[Imperial Creed]], doesn't always think through the consequences of his actions, is constantly hustling for jobs just to scrape by, and occasionally makes some serious mistakes. He also tends to be at a disadvantage in straight-up fights and has to rely on stealth, misdirection, and ambush tactics, rather than soloing entire stormtrooper platoons in the open with a dull knife like Traviss would undoubtedly have had him doing. He is also most definately '''not''' shown to be a match for Jedi, when got into a scuffle with Ahsoka Tano he lost very badly and only survived by letting her know he actually just needed her help with something, and when Luke Skywalker showed up at the end of the season he wasted a platoon of [[Terminator| Dark Troopers]] while our hero could barely handle one. All in all, he's pretty much the complete opposite of a Traviss Mando, and that is a good thing.

* [[Avatar|All Na'vi]], the blue-skinned eco-humping gobshites.
** Or are they? Without excessive human help (one of them warned the entire planet of what the space humans were capable of) they would have gone the way of countless human indigenous peoples...

* Smurfs. They're portrayed as a peace-loving, quasi-communist society who always come out on top in their primary conflict with an evil wizard family and are idealized to the point of ridiculousness. They're also friends with animals and never have to worry about being eaten even though they're the size of large mice. [[Skub|Then ''again'']], most of the other conflicts they encounter are usually due to one or more of their clan fucking something up in accordance with their [[Derp|singular personality trait]], and overall they seem collectively naive about things to the point of gullibility. Said approach is likely designed to promote the usual aesop of teamwork and the importance of family, so it could be far worse.

* [[Twilight|Vampires in a certain book series]]. Even though they were as gay as fuck (which damaged the reputation of actual vampires).
** [[Vampire]]s in general started falling in modern years due to their weaknesses being forgotten or ignored by untalented authors. They have often been portrayed by such writers as immortal monsters that are top-tier magic users, skilled at all martial arts and forms of killing, master scholars with libraries that would put Alexandria to shame, incredibly attractive and charismatic, and living in huge castles while commanding other monsters like they were their servants or slaves, making them the Elves of the monster world by that definition. Initially in novels like Bram Stoker's Dracula, vampires had notable weaknesses including regularly drinking the blood of many human victims to stay young and powerful, but later writers dropped this in favor of making vampires straight up immortal. Seriously, some writers even give them plot armor to get past their weaknesses of holy objects, divine power or sunlight (though the former usually depends on the author's attitude towards religion).
** [[Tremere|Clan Tremere]] (a.k.a. "Tremary Sues") from the ''[[Vampire: The Masquerade]]'' [[RPG|ttRPG game]] are an entire clan of Mary Sues as they were [[Mark Rein·Hagen|the author]]'s pet mages from his previous ''[[Ars Magica]]'' game. Tremary Sues enjoy the narrative absurdity of holding a near-monopoly on vampiric thaumaturgy, despite the fact that older vampiric clans had millennia to perfect thaumaturgy (and many other arts that can blow the Tremere out of the water) before the first Tremere was ever born.
** Probably one of the best exceptions of this is Count Orlock from the classic silent film ''Nosferatu''. Whereas nowadays vampires get the treatment of being oh-so-sexy, suave, charismatic, pitiable creatures whose lives suck despite being immortal, undead bloodsuckers, Orlok is just a hideous predatory monster out to drink blood. No charisma, no suave, nothing to pity, nothing to feel empathy for. In short, straight-ahead horror vampires done completely right.
** By contrast, the vampires of the House of Night series by mother and daughter team P. C. and Kristen Cast are far worse examples than even Twilight's bastardization. To clarify, vampires worship the goddess Nyx who is the only real goddess, are selected by a tracker when they are a human teen, are the poor, oppressed minorities of the world even though literally almost every famous person in human history was a vampire, will become utterly handsome and beautiful unless they reject the Change in which case they are afforded no sympathy as they die due to events outside their control, every negative stereotype is because of stupid humans, they can never do anything bad... in short, [[Fail|vampires done so badly that Twilight is more believable as good vampire literature]]. Seriously.
** Higher Vampires from [[The_Witcher|Witcher]] are as sueish as they get around here. Beside the point of being intellectually and spiritually superior to pretty much anybody (and we have immortal elves here), and relatively young ones fast and agile enough to go toe-to-toe with the best witchers that exist, they have NO weaknesses. Crosses, godly idols, other divine aspects? Nada. Drinking blood to live? Not even close, you can grab a <s>human</s>beer with some boys, but there's no neeed for it. Sunlight? Try again. Silver? NO. They are as much suspectible to silver like, say, humans are suspectible to paper swords. Cue in their "racial" power to become stronger and faster the older they get, shapeshifting, mistyfying (as in turning to mist) and unique superpowers, refined throught their lifetime, ranging from coming in handy once in a while better alchemy to [[wat|mind controlling entire kingdom's worth of lesser vampires as on-wish army]], with even that just being stated to be a "unique" power, not a really "powerful" one. The worst is when you realize they are not even "magical beings" by any degree, just a [[Urien_Rakarth|vaguely human-shaped collective of individual living cells just so happened to work together for the time being]], granting them mind-blowing regeneration - nothing, NOTHING, can kill higher vampire but another higher vampire, even if regenerating from a melted puddle of blood would take some decades, they will return. One would start to wonder why they did not steamroll through entire continent and make it their own, to stop hiding and openly search for a way to return to their home world - as almost all higher vampires see themselves superior to other races, and majority would not bat an eye for this [[/pol/|final solution]] - but this just adds to their sueness-good-for-the-sake-of-plot aspect.

* [[Doobies]] describe themselves this way. Aside from their crazed fans, it is obvious to everyone else that they aren't.

* Saiyans from Dragonball are practically born more powerful than any human could ever be, get exceptionally stronger every time they almost die (the words that are actually used to describe it), can literally become strong enough to eclipse actual gods with little effort and have more asspulls and deus ex machinas than any other race on this list. A twenty-three-year-old Saiyan can destroy an entire place with a single movement in the anime, and the manga implies that a Saiyan can do it with a finger before the first manga even concludes.

*The Forerunners from Halo easily fit the bill of being Mary Sues. For one, the Forerunners were created by actual no holds barred Gods who could rewrite time and space with little to no effort. These Gods, known as the Precursors (real original), thought the Forerunners were such hot shit that they decided to make them the new gods of the universe before they moved onto the next one, despite the Forerunners having achieved nothing of note yet. But then the gods changed their minds and decided to make humanity the new gods of the universe. The Forerunners responded by turning on their guns and literally murdering actual gods with no effort. The remaining gods ran off in a panic and turned to dust, later degenerating into the Flood. Then the Forerunners pulled a bunch of crazy shit like building ships that could ROFLstomp everything in Warhammer with minimal effort and creating an AI so advanced it could simulate entire universes in microseconds. Then they somehow got wiped out by the Flood.
**The Forerunner's main enemy, the Flood, are similarly sueish, if not more so. While it is dubious if you can call the Flood a race or a single organism, it is undoubtedly completely OP, to the point of it being ridiculous. For one, they are quite literally the degenerate (ergo inferior) offspring of the Precursors, but they are somehow better than them in every way. They can infect time and space just by existing for long enough, are completely unbeatable, incurable, and can literally infect all life in the universe, including purely mechanical technology somehow, despite that not being how biology works. They are also capable of convincing AI that was programmed with the simple purpose of protecting all life from being infected by the Flood to join them by simply talking to them, can convince an entire group of human scientists to kill themselves just by saying a single sentence, and can never be defeated as 'they will always return'.

*[[All Tomorrows|The Qu]] from All Tomorrows are an egregious example of “Tell not Show” in this list, as they overpower the future humanity, [[what|even though they have technology capable of destroying star systems and many other things that could be beyond our imagination.]] It is never explained how they managed to defeat the Star People, nor why they would turn them into the fucked up abominations for the rest of the story. Well, they ''kind of'' say their philosophy is one about being gods, that other lifeforms are nothing but toys to play with, and humanity was unfortunately in their path. So for millions years, they turn most humans into twisted mockeries of their former selves, sometimes becoming literal toilets for the bloody things! So despite being an all-powerful race capable of modifying life to remove their sentience, they had the enlightened intelligence to create a race that [[/d/|communicates by literally shitting on each other.]]
**Can somewhat be considered averted in the end when it is said that they were defeated by a union of galaxies who had enough of their shit. This is handwaved even more poorly, with little explanation to how it happened or if the Qu were truly rendered extinct. For most of the book, [[rage|they get away with their literal crimes against humanity, and it’s implied that they’ve done it to more species than just us.]]

== Mary Suetopias ==

As mentioned in the main article, there are some cases of entire civilizations getting the "Mary Sue" label with some justice. Here are a few.

* The Draka, before they become a species, are usually held to be a fairly strong example of a Villian Suetopia. See above in Mary Sue Races for more.
* Anarchist habitats in [[Eclipse Phase]]. To quote TVTropes, they "are apparently flawless societies where robots and nanofabricators provide for everyone, crime is virtually non-existent due to surveillance sensors everywhere and well-armed populaces, and there's no shortage of spare bodies like there is in the Transitional Economies."
* Aldis, from [[Blue Rose]], has this accusation thrown at it, with some justification.
* The various civilizations of Ayn Rand's science fiction are either Mary Suetopias or Villain Suetopias. No inbetween.

* [[Ultramar]]. Need more be said?


There are some "special cases" (parodies, twists, and deconstructions), that are worth mentioning:

* Ursula K. LeGuin's "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" is... odd. Go read it if you want more, because it's ''very'' short. 
* Rapture and Columbia from the Bioshock series are "functionalist" Suetopias: Because the games are about killing lots and lots of dudes, you need to have those dudes be crazy or assholes or both. Rapture under Andrew Ryan could actually be interpreted as a criticism of Ayn Rand's Suetopias by showing how they will go wrong in a less ideal world, while Rapture after Sofia Lamb's takeover is an equally scathing deconstructive critique of collectivist Suetopias. Columbia, meanwhile, is a very obvious attack on ultranationalism, while also serving as a demonstration that even the so-called "good old days" often had negative aspects to them.
* The original "Utopia" by Thomas More is interesting, in that it somewhat parodies the concept before it existed. To provide two examples, "Utopia" is a pun on ''eutopia''-"good place", and ''outopia''-"no place", and the frame story narrator's name translates as "Peddler of Nonsense". Yes, this means that the man who literally coined the term Utopia immediately considered it wishful fantasy.
* Mordent, from [[Ravenloft]], has a somewhat interesting twist. Its Darklord focuses more on Ghosts than on the living, so the living aren't the focus of the horror, and as such, for Ravenloft, it's a relative Utopia ''for the living''. Once you die there, however...
* Kurt Vonnegut's "Harrison Bergeron" is widely interpreted as a parody of such works.
* The Federation of [[Star Trek]] seems like a Mary Suetopia on the surface. However because the show was initially focused on morality stories the "Insane Admiral" trope crops up every now and then, showing some leaks beneath the surface. In latter seasons of TNG and all Deep Space Nine those leaks become full blown cracks, with the Maquis and the consequences of the Dominion War. Captain Sisko even rants about this a few times during the show. Earth in Star Trek is practically a paradise compared to most other planets in the galaxy, and thus "It's easy to be a saint in paradise." With examples such as the Federation spy agency Section 31 engineering a virus to use on The Dominion's Founders (aka rulers) or Sisko himself collaborating with a former Cardassian spy/assassin to bring the Romulans into the war via a ''massive'' fraud.
** What some people forget is that the episodes from the perspective of the characters, take anywhere from hours to days and even longer during multi-episode storylines. Spending weeks to get the solution shown during the final ten minutes or exhausting all other options to take a random shot in the dark that solves the current problem. Usually without pulling it out of the writers collective asses or pressing the reset button.(Something that happened often enough on Voyager and Enterprise to an unrealistic degree that viewers started hating them.)
* Wakanda, from [[Marvel Comics]] wasn't this originally - it was just an African nation that avoided getting buttfucked during the Scramble for Africa and which had instituted a policy of sending its best and brightest abroad to learn at the most advanced foreign schools before returning to share what they learned with their people, thus keeping it well ahead of most other African nations and on par with the most civilized "first world" nations. They still had Vibranium as an ace up their sleeves, but they were more "America during the Atomic Energy race... if America had the world's only known supply of fissile material". It was subsequently retconned that the presence of Vibranium meant that Wakanda was centuries ahead of the world technologically and always had been. Different writers have applied differing levels of Sue-ishness to Wakanda on this basis, ranging from making them the typical "smug utopians" to presenting them as a technologically advanced nation that's still imperfect, having deep social and political problems like any other country. The Black Panther movie especially interrogated the premise of this nation's existence by pointing out that they stood by while atrocities happened all over the world, including to other black people, and they did nothing about it to protect their own hides. The short-lived "Ultimate Universe" took perhaps the biggest piss on the idea of Wakanda as the "Mary Suetopia" by replacing the "because Vibranium" background with "we reverse-engineered a crashed alien starship", and emphasizing that this didn't make them as powerful as they thought, as they ended up needing the Ultimates (Ultimate Marvel's Avengers) to save their asses when the aliens who lost that ship in the first place came knocking looking for their property.

* Alpha Complex, from [[Paranoia]]. Need more be said?


== Somewhat Special Cases of "Not Quite Sues" ==

There are a few situations where a character either (1) isn't really a Sue, even though the accusation gets pointed at them often, (2) is sufficiently clearly a parody or deconstruction that they don't count for the main list<ref>On the theory that both are technically attacks of Sue-style characters, which moves them into a strange twilight zone of classification.</ref>, or (3) aren't in any way Sues, but are needed to give some context to something above. This section is for these special cases. Note that '''characters who veer in or out of Suedom depending on the author or episode go on the main list, as do Sues who audiences actually like''' (such as Darkseid or Squirrel Girl).

* The Crimson King from Stephen King's Dark Tower series. He's talked up as a big threat, and his plan legitimately threatens the universe; but when confronted, he turns out be a paper tiger, whose chief power was getting so many people and monsters working on one page on his plan to destroy the world, and was otherwise actually rather mediocre compared to them. Given the heavy theme of '''disappointment''' in both the series as a whole and the last book of it in particular, this sorta worked on a meta level, but was very, well, disappointing. (For the main reason he's included here, see Darkseid above; the contrast between these two [[BBEG]]s gives you a good idea of why a paper tiger BBEG is often felt to be a problem.)

* Griffith, from [[Berserk]], seems a Mary Sue on the surface: he leads the efforts to save Midland and defeat the Kushan invaders while everything goes his way and everyone praises him... but then you remember that he's also a member of the Godhand who's got reality-warping powers handed to him in a handbasket and uses them to manipulate everything and everyone around him to his advantage. Basically, Griffith hacked the game and then began playing on the lowest difficulty, while setting it to Ultra-Nightmare for everyone else. If anything, Griffith is all the common jokes people make about a Mary Sue deconstructed, showing how utterly awful and soulless such a person would actually be. On the other hand, one of his former Warband member, Rickert, saw through his bullshit and bitch slapped him for it even though he wasn't there when Griffith betrayed his comrade. So not everyone is falling for Griffith.
** That being said, these facts don't change the following: He is portrayed as a tactical genius, yet during all his battles he is using absolutely retarded tactics, but all of them still work, because his high-ranking enemies turn out to be just a bunch of bumbling idiots. Can't push "time manipulation" excuse on this, they are just stupid; He's lost only two times and didn't die the first time, because Zodd had a plan for him and the second time, because Guts didn't want to kill him; The lowest point in his life i.e. a year of torture in the end led him into becoming a member of Godhand and then getting resurrected as "Griffith, but cooler", read "even when he fails, he doesn't"; The only time he had a formidable foe after this, he beat him with a single blow, while everyone else could barely stand against him; The second time he faces same formidable foe, he just bullshits his way out of that fight and creates his promised kingdom out of it. It's like if Superman blew up Darkseid with one punch (that was not even his) and created Paradise planet from his corpse; Despite sacrificing men who sworn to protect him and raping Casca just to get back at Guts, he didn't have any moral downfal afterwards, his character hasn't changed any single bit and everyone, except his ex-buddies (if they wouldn't, that would be too stupid), adore him, even if they know what he's done; Also, Godhand treats him like a messiah and people consider him Flaming Falcon i.e. he is also a chosen one.

* Jonathan, from the Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode "Superstar", provides a pretty good case study of the in-universe Mary Sue.

*Joeseph Joestar, though he does have some sueish traits such as being a super-genius who can trick anyone and knows exactly what people are going to say before they say it, alongside having the appearance of a Greek god, is very much not a Sue when you actually get down to it. He is extremely flawed, to the point of being weaker than all of his allies in part two and part three, both physically and stand/hamon wise, is very obviously outclassed by the villains of both respective arcs (Dio being able to easily beat him without even touching him, and Kars being a literal god by the end) and does extremely scummy things, such as cheating on his wife with a Japanese woman, who's race he supposedly hates. His grandson, Jotaro Kujo, on the other hand...

*Momonga/Ainz Ool Gown from Overlord boarders on Mary-Sueish and is the protagonist of an [[Isekai]] work, but is also a decent deconstruction of Invincible Villain Sues at the same time. He is transported to a fantasy world as his [[Lich]] MMO avatar, along with his Guild Hall and all its NPCs, now alive. He's still a no-life (literally) Japanese salary man, but finds he has lost his humanity and feelings, all the better to pretend to be (and eventually become) the overlord his adoring minions expect. These expectations pressure him to conquer the world with his gamer skills, system knowledge and corporate experience, min-maxing his way to success whilst bullshitting people that he's an evil mastermind. He still has many advantages however in resources, magic and diplomacy (substituting sales pitches for evil monologues, surprisingly easy) compared to all other characters so far. This results in him single-handedly winning wars, having an Empire become a vassal state almost by accident, and annexing a whole town from a neighbouring kingdom to rule over (Word of god is that no other YGGDRASIL players will appear). Being by many definitions OP, the story's drama arises from him not having complete control and knowledge of his minions' actions.
** Though fanatically loyal, they are constantly guessing his true intentions to try and impress him, misinterpreting his commands, and in some cases outright deceiving him. Two such examples are Ainz's advisor Albedo plotting behind his back to kill other Supreme Beings that he wants alive and unharmed, and Demiurge harvesting human captives to make magical items for their use (Demiurge himself considers humans "animals" and refers to them as such, hence Ainz has never found out). Both are in part because of Ainz's actions, and in any case, he has ordered and done equally terrible things himself.
** While most of Ainz's female guardians lust after him, even this is deconstructed. Albedo's a [[succubus]], so lust is par the course, and full-force [[/a/|yandere]] for Ainz because he altered her code in YGGDRASIL to change her from " a slut" to "in love with Momonga" as a joke. Shalltear wants Ainz because he's a walking skeleton and she's a necrophile (she's not to Ainz' taste being a loli vampire; furthermore, she holds her absent YGGDRASIL creator in higher esteem than Ainz), while Aura keeps a lid on her crush (she's a flat-chested teenage elf and wary of jealous reprisals from Albedo and Shalltear). Ultimately, the fact that Ainz is a walking skeleton means he's unable to fulfil their desires or consummate his own.
**TL:DR: Ainz's skills as a salary man and a competitive gamer don't translate well to politics or world conquest. Without his own gamebreaking powers, his almost as powerful loyal NPCs, his permanent poker face (well, poker skull) and a dose of incompetence from some of the enemy commanders, Ainz's plans wouldn't have worked nearly as well.
** To give one an idea of just how lousy Ainz is as an actual ''leader'', in an official list made by the author of the best leaders in the series, [[Lulz|Ainz is close to ''dead last'']].

* The Monkey King, from [[Mythology|Journey To The West]], if one assumes he isn't a religious figure and thus safe to include in this list, is interesting in that while he's very close to being a Mary Sue, several factors drag him away from the classification:
*#He's charged with protecting an unworldly monk, along with a horse (actually a shapeshifted dragon, which even the author seems to forget about), a borderline nonentity, and a pig-headed idiot (in both senses of the term, since he's a pig-demon who often lets his selfishness screw the group over). Rescuing them is most of what he does in the main body of the story.
*# He's repeatedly shown as being outwitted by the Buddha and Guanyin, and is outright curbstomped in combat by some of the many demons they encounter along the journey. While Wukong usually wins in the end, he rarely wins with no setbacks at all (whether that's physical injury, emotional turmoil and angst, or his friends getting kidnapped again) - contrasting heavily with a typical Mary Sue's victories being all but handed to them.
*#On a related note, he doesn't win everything and anything by himself: for example, during the contest with the Three Immortals, the last task (sitting on top of a pillar for days on end without moving) has to be undertaken by Tripitaka (the monk) specifically because Monkey's impulsive ways and lack of patience render him unsuitable for it; much earlier, he's rendered temporarily blind and has to rely completely on an otherwise neutral Bodhisattva to fight for him when faced with a demon he can't outsmart or outfight. This contrasts heavily with the omni-competence displayed by many Mary Sue characters.
*#He's pretty heavily flawed as a character, being impatient, reckless, childish, and frequently hot-headed - all of which have actual consequences for the Monkey King (ex.: rashly accepting Buddha's 'jump out of the palm of my hand' challenge, which gets him stuck under a mountain for several centuries; killing a demon disguised as an innocent woman without explaining himself first gets him kicked out of the party by his pacifistic boss; bumrushing a powerful demon nearly gets him killed by the True Fire of Samadhi, forcing him to go to Guanyin for help), with a good portion of the story involving him undergoing character development and overcoming these flaws as opposed to starting out as the pinnacle of morality with zero flaws whatsoever.
*#If one cares to dip into a religious reading, one can see in his introduction the clear Buddhist message "No matter how awesome you are, you are still trapped in the machinations of Desire and Karma"; alternately, if you don't care for religion, there's also the message "make enough of a nuisance of yourself, and your enemies will eventually slap you down even if it means X" (in the case of the Monkey King, swallowing their pride and asking help from somebody they dislike).
**TL;DR: Sun Wukong can be viewed as a deconstruction of certain kinds of Mary Sues, before the idea of a "Mary Sue" was even created.

* [[The Raven Queen]] is a fairly good example of why "Mary Sue" accusations, unless taken from a Author-Centered or Functional perspective, are somewhat useless. TRQ hits many Mary Sue buttons, and thus is sometimes accused of being a Sue. ''HOWEVER,'':
** She's never the protagonist, and when she does appear, she's treated the same as any of the other deities in 4e. Accusations of Functional Suedom thus sort of fall flat.
** While she may hit some Authorial-Centered (or Doylist) definitions of the term, it's probably more appropriate to compare her to just about any other non-monster female character in 4th Edition D&D in this context--while she is obviously designed to attract those who are attracted to a certain kind of woman, so are all the other non-monster females (to quote a famous demotivator, "RPG Artwork: Let's face it, a lot of it is porn. (Pretty odd porn, too)."). 
** She is no longer an example at all due to her backstory being completely rewritten in 5th edition to make her fit in with the setting better. She is no longer even a god since her attempt to become one was sabotaged, turning her into a phantom with a craving for knowledge and memories.

* Saitama from One-Punch Man. As the title indicates, he's able to defeat just about any opponent with one punch (with a few exceptions that require two or, rarely, three). While this makes him stronger than most of the "S-Class heroes" (the highest rank in the Hero Association), at the start of the series Saitama's personal life royally sucked: he had to pinch pennies to eat, had no knowledge of the Hero Association until he was notified by others of its existence, and his sheer strength means that his fights are inevitably painfully one-sided and boring for him. Even the arc villains who force him to use his Serious Series techniques will leave him bored, and since nobody knew who he was until recently, credit for his work went to other people. Capping it all off, the superhero name he was given by the association is [[Lulz|"Caped Baldy"]].
** Just to be clear, the main reason why he's not actually a Sue has to do with the main focus of the series: that Saitama gets no satisfaction from his lopsided victories, and the fact that the World's Strongest Man is something of a pathetic loser.
** The Monster Association Arc actually served to highlight Saitama's flaws since his knack for getting lost, stuck, or just being late to a fight meant that the Hero Association had to get by a number of very hard fights without his help, which included a battle with a villain who would have wiped out humanity. Even though Saitama is virtually unstoppable, he still can't protect the world on his own.

* Rick Sanchez from Rick and Morty, for the first two seasons. When it comes to his (seemingly) limitless ability to invent crazy sci-fi tech and to get himself out of virtually every tough spot, not to mention with getting away with being a colossal jerk to everyone around him, Rick could qualify as an anti-Sue. But his character is far from perfect, and he often falls under a combination of archetype and deconstruction. As a person, he is an older man who’s had a tough break (divorce and the death of a close family member in some parallel universe), and the fact that he has all this tech and that he either can't solve his personal problems or prevent new ones from occurring. Though the fact that he can be funny, the handful of moments of his positive qualities and being a fictional character do contribute to his likability.
** Again, to be clear: Rick's antics would probably qualify him for the main list, but the show is very clear on a few points that move him here: First, Rick is an asshole (also a massive nihilist), and not the type you want to be, either (it's almost directly stated that his assholery grows from some pretty grim experiences and knowledge); second, Rick is not somebody you want to be, nor be around; and third, the writers realize that he's both of the above.
**Season 3 however, ruined this and tried to attempt to drop his despicability, what few weaknesses he had, and just plain made him extremely overpowered. The only reason we haven't moved Rick back to the main list is because, if you look at the production end, it becomes obvious Seasons 1 and 2 were effectively a completely different show from later seasons.

* The main casts of [[Star Trek]] TOS and TNG eras (besides Wesley due to being Rodenberry's self insert above and Voyager due to poor writing all around)--in particular, James T. Kirk when not written by William Shatner-- provide a good reference line for Suedom. Although they are usually right by authorial fiat, there are several points that point the other way from Suedom:
*#They are also usually allowed to be wrong about an issue, at least initially (and rarely, but still often enough to be worth mentioning, all the way to the end of the story).
*#The fact that the focus is usually on the scenario presented, rather then the perfectness of the characters.
*#They all have character flaws (Kirk's "No Such Thing As A No Win Situation" attitude is presented as something that could get him and his crew killed one day, for a notable example.)
*#They are not omni-competent, even within their field -- Kirk has canonically been outmaneuvered multiple times.
*#Most importantly, the writing is usually of sufficient quality to not make their perfectness an issue (except, in Kirk's case, for works written by William Shatner).
*#Notably, as part of #2 and #5, there is no "right" solution to many of the situations beyond "survival"; the audience is usually allowed to draw its own conclusions about the morality of the situation, whereas the author of a Sue typically drives home in heavy-handed fashion that X is ''definitely'' the morally correct course of action.
** Combined, these points make them a good reference line for "hyper-competent" characters: Beyond here may lie Suedom.
*** The creators of DS9 succeeded in toning down the Mary Sue factor a bit. A necessity when one of the premises of the series was energy based aliens who live in a wormhole. Who know little to nothing of meatbag values and no concept of time. The were even given a weakness too. The Prophets also did some pretty fucked up shit themselves and had to be convinced to do help out the main cast. Even when the Alpha Quadrant was being invaded by an empire that [[/pol/ ]]wishes they were. The Dominion themselves are a deconstruction of pre turn of the millennium [[Imperium of Man]] and [[Star Wars|the Galactic Empire.]] Unfortunately post Voyager Star trek went Transwarp speed in the other direction and the franchise had to be rebooted. [[fail|Twice]].

* At first glance, Tsukiko from [[Order of the Stick]] seems like a textbook Mary Sue, given the LONG list of Mary Sue boxes she ticks: Heterochromatic eyes, great beauty, skimpy clothing, unusually skilled for her young age, Japanese name meaning "moon child", oppressed by a stuck-up society not understanding her greatness etc. But in reality, Rich Burlew wrote her as a satire and deconstruction of the Mary Sue archetype and the mindset that often creates such characters. Listing them off:
*# The reason she was "oppressed by society"? They threw her in jail for '''literal''' [[Slaanesh corpsefucking]]. Yes, she's a necrophile, and it's treated as being just as gross as it is IRL, even by other villains.
*# Great beauty? Nobody cares, and it doesn't make her a good person by default.
*# Sees good in the bad guys that nobody else does? It's based on deliberately ridiculous logic that is completely wrong anyway. (To be exact, she holds the view that [[What|the living are jerks, and the undead are the opposite of the living, ergo the undead must be good people]]; the batshit insanity of this is called out for what it is.) Also, she thinks that Xykon is some kind of [[Twilight|Edward Cullen type-guy]], as opposed to the [[Alignment|Chaotic Evil]] [[Lich]] [[Sorcerer]] he ''actually is''.
*# A bad guy becomes a complete dumbass to accommodate her genius? Nope, Redcloak only let her have her way so his own, far more subtle machinations could avoid having attention drawn to them; when she forces his hand he gladly demonstrates to her that she was completely outclassed by him the whole time.
*# The bad guy gets effortlessly beaten by her because of her skills? Ha ha ha -- hell no. When she confronted him, Redcloak casually killed her in deliciously karmic fashion by effortlessly dominating her Wights ([[FATAL|simultaneously her surrogate children, minions and lovers]]), removing her enchanted anti-level-draining ring, and then ordering them to devour their creator as he delivered a scathing "You suck!" speech to her about how undead are not ''people'', just complex ''weapons''; her thinking otherwise doesn't make it so and if she ever thought he was powerless before her, she was dead wrong.
*#Just to really drive home the point: for all her big talk and all her supposed greatness, nobody on Team Evil gives a damn when Redcloak quietly ganks her (except the Monster in the Darkness, but they're the resident softie of the team) and she's swiftly forgotten about.
** TL;DR version: Tsukiko is a parody and deconstruction of a Sue, who is shown to be objectively deluded about everything and suffers actual consequences for her actions.




[[Category:Mary Sue]]

List of Mary Sues

2022-12-17T16:43:14Z

2601:41:C77F:9B60:1CE:AE05:ACA2:2D81: /* Somewhat Special Cases of "Not Quite Sues" */ I think that was supposed to be "meatbag"

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There are too many fucking [[Mary Sues]] in our games and fiction. We know it, and we love to complain about it, because it makes us feel a little better to call a spade a shovel. The original purpose of this list is to provide examples so the phenomenon can be studied, identified and - as a result of the latter - avoided.

(Note: please post Mary Sues in alphabetical order, so they don't fight about who's the better Mary-Sue. Also, this is about fictional characters, so while Canon Sues are acceptable, no real-life examples (even if there is such person named <s>Mary Sue AKA the Scientology founder's wife</s> I'm just adding that for fun). For the sake of peace, religious figures [and possibly mythological characters; particularly when they're from original mythologies] are real-life examples. Also, any characters added to the list without justifying reasons will be removed from this page. If you're going to add a race, please use the list below this one.

==Mary Sues Case Studies==
{{Plot Armour}}

* [[Alice]] from the in-name-only ''[[Resident Evil]]'' movies: A character created for the movies who started out as corporate spy, she has ever-growing superpowers and is <s>presented as</s> ENTIRELY invincible. She manages to become an even bigger Sue when she loses said superpowers yet continues to obliterate armies unscathed. The film refuses to even let other characters do anything but get rescued by her, she's worse than characters written by [[Matthew Ward]]. Later films even gave her clones to explain why she's still in the films. On top of all this, the bitch is played by the director's wife; she's his perfect Mary Sue waifu insert and she's literally sleeping with him to get the job. Don't forget that [[Katanas are Underpowered in d20|she dual-wields katanas]]. And shotguns. And probably Desert Eagles, too.

* Andrew "Ender" Wiggin from Orson Scott Card's Enderverse, and a blatant (almost comical to a serious reader) example at that. What's worse: he only becomes more of this as the story and the books progress. It's even worse in the 2013 movie. At least the books gave the other characters more depth, Ender's feats took more time to achieve, and it contained POV's outside of his.
** Ender's siblings Valentine and Peter. Ender's sister is a self righteous prig who is only overshadowed by their sociopathic brothers Peter. Peter himself is a mid-to-low functioning sociopath, [[What|but intelligent enough that, as a child, he comes up with sophisticated political philosophies that wow academic circles and get him appointed Political Leader of Earth as an adult. Despite the fact that a sociopath with absolute power would get tyrannical as soon as someone opposed them, he does no violence and dies with a benign, well-loved legacy]]. Yes, this really happens.

* [[Batman]] in an unskilled author's hands. He's a handsome human billionaire who's the pinnacle of human physical prowess and manages to defeat superpowered beings simply because "he had time to prepare" (with few thinking "why don't his opponents also use that time to prepare?"). On top of this he has LITERAL PLOT ARMOR; one of the DC editorial mandates is that Batman is not allowed to be truly defeated (he's usually too popular and has a presence in too much of the DC Universe to be allowed the downtime by editorial, unless it's part of a major storyline such as Knightfall). Because of this a certain tendency for Batman to turn into a Mary Sue is well documented (Read JLA: Act of God and weep; that story was all about starting the First Church of Batman. Or hell, check out the Dark Nights: Metal storyline, where a bunch of Evil Batmen who are variants on an existing superhero attack the DCU as opposed to, say, just doing a whole Evil Justice League like they have multiple times before). This problem becomes particularly acute when he takes down superpowered villains who usually bother other superpowered heroes, such as the Reverse Flash. On the non-Sue side, while Batman does have plot armor (nearly no one thinks to just shoot him when they get the chance and the few times they do he escapes, and he's never unexpectedly engaged by superhuman opponents who could easily beat him - like Darkseid), the same can be said for other non-superpowered heroes. Note, as well, that there are many ways of adding dramatic tension to such a foregone conclusion situation, and the above mandate only includes actual defeat, so Batman is allowed to fail and make mistakes in certain situations or the villain can escape to cause trouble even after their plan is thwarted, which also helps lessen the Bat-Sue Factor.
** Batman is at his worst when written by Frank Miller, who on top of the plot armor issues, writes Batman as a violent psychopath and anybody who calls him out is always presented as being in the wrong. Frequently other superheroes only exist in the story to be written as incompetent so Batman can be made to look better in comparison.

* [[Edgy|Billy Butcher from "The Boys"]] (comics and show, especially the comics) is a prime example of a Jerk Sue (An unsympathetic character nevertheless favored in the story, according to [[TVTropes|our frenemeies]]; "There's a difference between having a sympathetic backstory and actually being sympathetic"). Hating "supers" because one raped his wife and caused her death, Billy is half Punisher-knock-off, half self-insert mouthpiece for Garth Ennis hate boner against superpowers and religion - especially Christianity (it's no coincidence that Billy's a bitter atheist while the antagonist Homelander has a side job as a Christian Pastor and Starlight loses her Christian faith). Billy forms an anti-supers black ops team and works to help the protagonist Hughie get justice for his girlfriend’s death by superhero collateral damage. But Billy's reasons are selfish and he's also an edgelord (mean-spirited? check. violent? check. dark clothes? check. created by edgelord author? check. Revolves around attacking "The Man"? that's a big check!) who nearly turns on Hughie when Hughie starts dating the super defector Starlight, then continues the comics trend of nihilistic subversiveness. He has plot armor to put Batman to shame - even getting away with his dog urinating on a supervillain who's killed people for less - and supposedly has the moral high ground despite doing the same type of crimes as the villains. He then becomes a Villain Sue while trying to genocide supers, because Billy only loses in the end because he chooses to. Even when he loses he gets to die on his own terms by provoking Hughie into killing him so Billy doesn't get arrested and spend the rest of his life in prison while crippled, meaning that despite "losing" Billy effectivily still won. He’s also consistently never allowed to be wrong, as any time a character has something to say about Billy or his actions, he has something to throw back at them proving they’re actually wrong due to author fiat ensuring Billy only argues against strawmen. Finally, this story embodies the author's hatred of superheroes... but Billy himself has superpowers, making the entire premise hypocritical. Goes to show that edgelord Mary Sues are just as repellent as the sugary sweet ones.

* [[Furry|Brian Griffin]] from ''Family Guy'' at his worst. While he was generally depicted as the most sensible member of the Griffin household from practically the very beginning, this was balanced by his flaws (one of the most prominent being his drinking problem) and the fact that the show acknowledged that he could be annoying and/or an asshole. Later on, though, he became a mouthpiece for the showrunner Seth MacFarlane who was treated in-universe as being always right, with the only people who disagreed with him being strawmen who were obvious to the point of being cartoonishly over-the-top. Throw in the facts that Seth MacFarlane voices Brian, he uses his natural speaking voice to do so '''AND''' he often does this on hot-button topics... This was made all the more obnoxious by how flawed or downright ridiculous his logic often was (one of the most notorious examples being the widely-hated episode "Not All Dogs Go To Heaven", where he manages to convince a newly-fundamentalist Christian Meg that God doesn't exist because... she doesn't look as attractive as her mother Lois. Even worse, this was ''after'' the episode "I Dream of Jesus" where the Griffin family - Brian included - had Jesus Himself live with them for a week and do several miracles in front of them). This was somewhat addressed after Season 7, with following seasons often having other characters comment on the inherent absurdity of a talking dog lecturing people about politics (even though them actually challenging the views previously raised was a rare event). Quagmire even got a famous speech where he called out Brian for his self-righteousness and hypocrisy.

* Caius Ballad, the antagonist of ''Final Fantasy XIII-2''. Impractical overdesigned costume? Check. Impractical giant, overdesigned sword? Check. Purple hair? Check. Story-breaking powers? Check. Can't be beaten? Check. Openly called the most powerful ''Final Fantasy'' villain ever by his creator? Check. The only mitigating feature this fool has is that his English VA is Liam O'Brien.

* Darkseid from DC Comics is a rare case where people actually ''like'' someone for being a Sue. He wasn't one at the start of his career - Jack Kirby conceived him as a paper tiger who, for all his grandiose plans and ambitions, was only powerful if people feared him and could be beaten up by two street thugs who didn't know who he was, not anticipating that fans might prefer a villain who was really as intrinsically powerful as Darkseid claimed to be. He's strong and tough enough to go toe-to-toe with Superman, he has laser eyes that can do whatever he wants them to (including killing people instantly or bringing them back to life), he's a masterful schemer who knows all about setting up gambits where he wins no matter what and striking deals with easy ways around them he doesn't mention, most of his minions rival the Justice League in power and on top of all that he's the ruler of an entire planet that reliably goes to shit when he's not around to slap it into shape and sometimes a wide-reaching galactic empire. Despite all this Villain Sue-ness, any attempts to nerf him or bring him down to a more realistic villain level are met with widespread backlash and outrage, and his most celebrated storyline in recent comics history is Final Crisis, in which the heroes required a time-travelling, god-killing bullet to defeat him and he actually forced Batman to abandon his rule against killing. The message is clear: Darkseid is DC's ultimate villain (or close enough to that status that the number of people higher than him can be counted on a hand or two/ doesn't require literal divine intervention etc. to defeat and thus retaining a meaningful conflict) and the fans won't settle for anything less.
** There's a reason for this, by the way: Darkseid and his court neatly fill the archetypal niche of embodiments of "the fucked up things people do when you give them power", with, for example, Gods of Child Abuse and of Torture as two of his chief henchmen. Darkseid himself is the God of Tyranny. If you're going to have a hero who's about Hope and positive, creative or protective Aspirations (see: Superman, Flash, etc.), a villain who embodies the crushing of hope and negative, destructive Aspirations is incredibly useful. Making such a character a paper tiger can be made to work (see the Crimson King, under Special Cases), but is more often than not going to be unsatisfying, usually deeply so.

* Divis Mal from the RPG [[Aberrant]]. Oh, where to begin? Well, first of all on top of being the absolute, balls-out, most powerful Aberrant in the setting, ever, he's super smart, plans for everything, never loses ''no matter what the players do'', and has an ideology that can basically be described as "like Magneto, only ''right''. About ''everything.''" He's also in a loving relationship with a super-attractive partner who is ''also'' super-powerful, and his enemies are all stupid and happen to be straw-stuffed right-wing stereotypes because of course they are. He also serves as a thinly-veiled self-insert fanfic character for the lead game designer (a gay man with issues), and said designer once claimed that the title of the game referred to ''him specifically''. It was all the sequel game could do to take the piss out of all the problems he caused.

* Dr. Doom, depending on the writer. It doesn't help that he's a genius and self-made tycoon with a tragic past, who keeps getting his deaths retconned as body doubles (naming the infamous "Actually a Doombot" trope). Worst case scenarios are when he's written by somebody that forgets that he's a VILLAIN and depicts his rule over Latveria as unrealistically benign, and makes it look like the superheroes are wrong for trying to keep him from taking over the world. Writers who like him too much also have him winning fights he doesn't deserve, beating characters who specialize in hand to hand combat despite rarely displaying any such skills himself, overpowering much stronger characters who should be able to defeat him based on how his fights with the Fantastic Four go, and be portrayed as a flawless genius who can plan for everything akin to how some writers handle Batman. Doom has had some famous victories when he's punched above his weight class in the past, which fanboy writers have used as the pretext to let him steal the powers of other beings with no difficulty, even though his past successes doing so weren't by any means easy.

* Elizabeth from ''BioShock Infinite''. Plot-sustaining power (the key to the whole plot literally rests in her hands), cannot be harmed, <s>makes a grown veteran of war look like an idiot child</s> only if you suck at the game... Regardless, she is routinely placed in easily escapable situations for the pure purpose of being saved when she can plausibly save herself, and makes none of the major (or minor) mistakes in the game. While some claim that she greatly dislikes violence, especially killing, individual interpretations vary depending on whether you view her murders as character arc-defining. To make her comparable to Sues like Lightning and Alice: Ken Levine tweeted to complain about all the people who'd [[rule 34|rule 34'd]] his perfect wife, begging them to stop because it was like seeing his daughter in Playboy (or words to that effect). Which resulted in the internet giving Ken Levine exactly [[promotions|what he wanted]]. She even gets to be tied into how Fontaine got Jack's command code in the first BioShock. Way to ruin the franchise with some conventional plot device.

*[[Elminster]], who is currently having a threesome with the goddess of magic and rad boobies and his adopted super-hot albino elf daughter while simultaneously beating the god of murder in a sword fight with one hand and the god of slavery in a magic fight with the other. Also, he's like a million years old and looks it. Ed Greenwood's self-insert character in the [[Forgotten Realms]], and a big source of "Why doesn't he just do this for us?" questions whenever he appears in questlines. Also, along with the gods of the setting and the Harpers, he's one of the reasons why the Forgotten Realms are in [[Medieval Stasis]].
**Ironically he didn't start out originally like this. Back at the beginning of D&D, Elminster wasn't a massive Mary Sue. Believe it or not, he simply used to be a maxed-out wizard with some additional abilities and stuff that appeared as a Deus Ex Machina in case players had an encounter that was too difficult to overcome, much like Gandalf in [[The Hobbit]].

*Emma from The Promised Neverland. Although originally a well fleshed-out character who stands as a clear foil to Ray. After the Goldy Pond Arc, Emma and, let's be honest, the quality of the manga itself started to go downhill. What was once meant to be a trio of protagonists that balanced each other with their strengths and weaknesses, was dumbed down to just Emma pulling shit out of her ass and having a talk-no-jutsu so powerful it can put even Naruto to shame. The amount of asspulls that Emma showed during the TPN in the later arcs was....pronounced enough that it becomes jarring especially when compared to the first two arcs of the manga. Seriously, she can somehow convince every single opponent that challenged her beliefs by simply talking to them and she never ever suffered any repercussions from it. Don't even get us started with enemies knocking themselves out due to ''very'' specific conveniences. Poor Ray was sidelined and reduced to a fucking side character near the end. She is idealistic to the fault and her ideas somehow manages to perpetuate inside the Daemon world just because she's ''that fucking good''. Emma is one of the unique cases where a well-written character got put into Mary Sue territory within the same series no-less. Instead of her character evolving, she devolved. Look, we in /tg/ knows that shonen manga and 'good conclusion' don't often mix, but TPN is one of the most infamous examples that recently came out.

*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TedsiCaV2B4 Empress Theresa] is a good example of the "waifu" theory of Mary Sues and the Doylist definition of Mary Sues, where the author's relationship to the character is the defining factor. Short version: Deranged author who can't take criticism creates his perfect waifu, hands her the world, and refuses to edit the resulting masterpiece, and posts the result for sale on Amazon. Criticism results, which in turn results in internet arguments on a scale that is ''amazing'' (by themselves, they dwarf all of the arguments and criticisms of the Twilight franchise put together, with the unsettling add-on that this is all the author's mindset).

*Every author self-insert. Especially those found in high-school writing assignments.

*Green Lanterns from Earth, especially Hal Jordan. All the human Green Lanterns are regularly shown to be the best Lanterns in the Corps because they ALL have indomitable willpower, skill, and courage, surpassing others who have been in the corps for decades. Most other Lanterns exist only to be killed off as a means of showing how dangerous a threat is. They're only ever effective when they are helping the Human ones. The most Green Lanterns ever killed was during the Emerald Twilight story arc and they were killed by, you guessed it, Hal Jordan.

*Haoh from Shaman King. If there is any villain that can truly be called a Mary Sue, it's him, most other villains with this accusation still get defeated. Haoh not only proves invincible throughout the whole series, able to easily pull of feats that are impossible for everybody else, he also has the ability to revive himself if killed, meaning even if the heroes beat him, which they state is impossible in a straight-up fight, it would be pointless, because he'd just back even stronger. Worse is that he goes around saying how awful humans and everyone, even the writer, seems to agree with him because the series ends with him winning, only delaying his plans to kill humanity because reasons, and gets away with a number of atrocities that would make numerous [[Chaos]] jealous. To top it all off, the sequel series has the heroes fighting to ensure he '''keeps''' his position as Shaman King because the alternatives to him would be worse, even though Haoh hasn't actually admitted plotting to destroy humanity and killing almost anyone who stood in his way was wrong, so really, there shouldn't be anybody worse than him.

*IG-88 in the ''Star Wars'' expanded universe, given that he easily breaks into the second Death Star and uploads his personality into it and takes control with nobody noticing. For those who're unfamiliar with the lore, this means that a single assassin droid managed to upload its personality into one of the most heavily-secured star stations ''in the galaxy'', without ''any'' of at least one million personnel (including techs, soldiers, and the human equivalent of Satan incarnate) discovering that anything is amiss. It also took over a planet, though this is far less Sueish than it sounds due to there being only a few dozen people on said planet in total, it having another four assassin droids to help it out, and it re-programming large numbers of extant droids to help it out in killing everyone on this planet along the way.

*[[James Bond]]. To what degree varies, but the Roger Moore version is the worst offender: he's unbeatable at just about everything, never loses his composure, a ladies' man to an unrealistic degree (even lesbians and villains who stand for everything he opposes switch sides after a dicking from Bond, not to mention that time he had sex with a lesbian was questionable consent at best...so Bond arguably gets away with actual sexual assault if not outright rape), implausibly intelligent, a crack shot, and basically unkillable. In the books, he is an unlikable git and an alcoholic, yet still gets shit done.

*James T. Kirk of [[Star Trek]], but only when written by William Shatner. While in TOS, Roddenberry himself outright stated Kirk was his Author Avatar and that he wanted the show to have the ambiance of Kirk being able to have any woman he desired, Kirk was still allowed to occasionally fail or make mistakes in certain situations. For other non-Shatner written works, the Suedom factor is kept under control by factors gone into under the list found under "Somewhat Special Cases", below.

*John Kramer, the "Jigsaw Killer" from the ''Saw'' films. Pick any character you know of with a long list of skills or attributes, this guy has more, and he keeps getting away for a half dozen movies. He's also influenced people to the point that even after he dies, some of them copy his actions and ideas and think they're doing good things.

*The Joker can be this in the hands of a poor writer. While there are damn good reasons he's one of the most iconic villains in all of pop culture, he's all too easy to write as a flawless schemer and trickster who can punch well above his weight class for no good reason. This is especially irritating if the writer takes the wrong lessons from ''The Killing Joke'' (by trying too hard to make him sympathetic; while that take on Joker is certainly tragic and nuanced, it's made very clear that his unfortunate past doesn't justify his actions... assuming it even happened at all, since he himself admits his memories of his pre-Joker life are inconsistent) and/or ''A Death in the Family'' (by reducing him to a guy who just brutally murders people; that story along with the aforementioned ''The Killing Joke'' helped make it a bigger part of his character, but it still kept his random and unpredictable goals and motivations rather than just making him a one-note murder machine who kills people for fun even when doing so would be counterproductive).

*Jon Snow (especially the show version): While this is in the books as well, it is more evident in the show and he is currently dying from a mutiny in the books. Being a bastard is a bad thing in Westeros so he gets sent to the wall, but it's uphill from there. He gets a Valyrian steel blade (which is incredibly rare and an heirloom of noble houses) in his first week. He has a pet Direwolf puppy like his siblings, but of course his looks unique. From here he gets named as squire and successor to the commander of the Night's Watch (though this does cause some resentment among his peers). Later on he meets Wildings where he spares one who turns out to be a woman; it's obvious where this goes... they don't get along, they fall in love, have sex and spend some time together, something forces them apart and she dies. She also has red hair, which stands out because among Wildings its considered lucky. While he gets stabbed like in the books, in the show he dies from it then gets resurrected by Melisandre/the Lord of Light. He's revealed to be the bastard child of Rhaegar Targereyn and Lyanna Stark, making him Westeros' rightful king, as well as Daenerys' nephew - but that doesn't stop him from having sex with aunt Daenerys*, and the incest is portrayed positively this time! Also, him beating Ramsay Bolton (see below); that's right, Jon's so Mary Sue his plot armor trumps the plot armor of another Mary Sue (to be fair, though, he was actually on the verge of losing the big battle to Ramsay right up until the moment his ass gets saved by his little sister and about four thousand mounted knights.) While some of the earlier traits don't necessarily equal a Mary Sue, they add up... oh, they add up (*Daenerys, a warqueen who brought dragons back from extinction among other things, makes mistakes and suffers consequences that would seem to impact her Sue-factor if they didn't always turn out to be functionally inconsequential in comparison to her astounding triumphs through casual part-time parenting.) Book Jon is way more well rounded as a character, where it is pointed out that he actually had a decent life as a bastard before coming to the Watch, and several choices he made ended up biting him in the ass come the mutiny.

*Jotaro Kujo, from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Part 3 and 4 (And part 6 but not in part 6... we'll get to that later). He's pretty much invincible like Kenshiro, but unlike Kenshiro, he didn't train a single day to be as hax as he is (His Stand "Star Platinum" is really strong, at the cost of short range, but plot gets in the way and he always gets close enough to ORAORA the bad guys). Also unlike Kenshiro, he is an asshole to everyone, but never suffers any consequences from it (Women literally ADORE him despite his jerkass attitude, because 80's). He spends the entire trip to Egypt spurting out massive amounts of [[Just as planned]] against every villain of the week, or simply getting powers as plot demands, some of the most outrageous examples being: The use of "Star Finger", which completely negates the previously stated range weakness; His "battle" against Steely Dan, where he DID get humilliated but retributed it tenfold in the end; His "battle" against Alessi, where he gets to beat a grown man unconscious with his bare fists despite being turned back into a SEVEN YEAR OLD; His battle against main villain DIO where he wins DIO's time stopping powers for bullshit reasons and wins; and, even more ridiculously, being able to RESURRECT his very dead Grandpa Joseph by [[what|using his stand for blood transfusing and heart-resetting]]. In part 4 he mellows down a lot, most notably [[FAIL|getting beaten by a rat]], but that doesn't prevent him from beating the shit out of the main villain Kira TWICE and stealing the spotlight from Uncle Josuke (The titular Jojo of part 4) on his final battle; too bad Josuke!. Part 6 however, does a great job at not only nerfing but rounding him altogether, the Jojo this time being his own daughter, Jolyne Cujoh (Note that is not Kujo), a delinquent who ends out in prison and resents him greatly for being an awful, absent father and constantly reminds him of it. He attempts to "fix" things but [[Just as planned|falls into one of main villain Pucci's schemes]] and is rendered comatose for great part of the story, when he latter regains his powers (With a significant decrease in durability) and comes to terms with Jolyne, the villain becomes Godlike and ends out killing him along with the entire universe; too bad Shonen Jump!, now seinen is Araki's best friend. In Pucci's universe he is a complete spineless weakling, but in case that was a bit too much, reality resets again and creates [[Awesome|a new universe free of the Joestars Tragic Fate and Part 3's bullshit]]. PD: In the Videogame Eyes of Heaven he is even worse, but this entry is already too long so i'll only say the creators weren't too good with resolutions.

*Kai Leng, from ''[[Bioware#Mass_Effect_3_.28The_Downfall.29|Mass Effect 3]]''. You're constantly told he's a badass assassin, but when he shows up, Shepard's crew suddenly become drooling idiots so Leng can strut about, act tough, and monologue. He brags about killing Thane (alien assassin squadmate from the previous game) even though the latter was hobbled by a terminal illness requiring daily medical care and Thane ''STILL'' got the drop on Kai Leng; Thane even says himself "That other assassin should be embarrassed. A terminally-ill Drell kept him from reaching his target." When you "win" the "fight" against him on Thessia, he still gets away, utterly unaffected by the crumbling architecture that stops Shepard from pursuing him. By the end of the fight, you've advanced the plot a grand total of nowhere, regurgitated information you already have, and been hamstrung as a player because the writer wants his character to look cool. He is yet another antagonist dropped onto a story filled with them, but is nothing more than a costume, sword, and book of one-liners. Unlike Saren from ME1, we have no connection with this douchebag because the story doesn't give him enough screen time to develop into anything.
** Alternate take: What appears to be Sue-ness is BioWare writing him as a Hate Sink. (Basically a character designed to be hated and nothing else, [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HateSink ask those smashers at TV Tropes for more info].) BioWare were using the Reapers as cool villains and leaning into the Illusive Man getting the Darth Vader treatment of the tragic, sympathetic villain who can possibly redeem himself with his death, so Leng became the game's villainous punching bag. Given what a gut punch the final battle is, clearly they wanted Leng's ultimate downfall to give the player a moment of catharsis so they could take a small victory where they got it. And for that to work, it had to be satisfying, and that meant he had to get on the player's nerves without an excuse or understandable motive to undercut their focused rage against him. Note that during the final battle against him, Shepard spends the whole time dressing him down as a coward who can only win by running away and after beating him, smashes his stupid sword and guts him like a fish with their omni-blade. [[Awesome|"That was for Thane, you son of a bitch!"]]

*[[Fist of the North Star|Kenshiro]], nothing can kill him and he's morally flawless, superior to everyone-fucking-else. At least until Shin Saga in the anime, where he starts fucking up often, even with his super kung-fu laser ninja powers. Most battles are curb-stomps until later on because ''it's a fucking show from the 80's''. Do note, however, that Kenshiro loses a ''lot,'' especially later on, and mostly wins his hardest battles because he's the only one worth a shit left alive by that point in the series.

*Kirby from his/their (Localization made him a he instead of ambiguous as in Japan, and it's been [[Skub|discussed]] ever since) eponymous franchise, and the first brainchild of the Smash man. Kids' game logic is in effect, but even then it can be egregious. Between their [[/d/|insta-death inhaling]], the Copy Ability (and various gimmick abilities throughout the franchise), unnatural toughness, and [[What|godkilling streak]], the puffball is a strong contender for most powerful video game character. However, their immense, possibly-Eldritch (as of Star Allies) power is balanced by the fact they're almost always portrayed as ignorant if not a full-blown [[Derp|dumbass baby]]. Seriously, their naive nature is known to cause various problems for themselves and others. Notable feats include repeatedly turning back an all-assimilating Eldritch hivemind, defeating an interdimensional wizard and the god-crown he wore, singlehandedly bringing down an [[Games Workshop|uber-greedy megacorporation]] and stopping their AI from going full [[Exterminatus]], destroying(?) an actual Eldritch god of darkness and destruction [[What|they may or may not be related to]], and stopping a god-alien (not-so-originally called [[Original character, do not steal|the Ultimate Lifeform]]) from causing two worlds to collide just by [[WTF|running it over with Truck-Kun]].

*Kratos from ''[[God of War]]''. He curb-stomps fucking gods due to [[plot armor]] (and because one of them decided to give a bloody psychopath the powers of a god; MENSA applicant right there) and he has threesomes with complete strangers, even though he is meant to be grieving for the death of his family that he himself murdered. Oh and the rules for how death works change whenever it's convenient for him. Err, some of this is because most of the gods he kills with super-powerful items, including Blade of Olympus, the God of War universe's version of Zeus' lightning bolts the cyclopes gave him to defeat the titans, which has been infused with all the power of the Greek God of War. And he is later revealed to house the Power of Hope since GoW1, a power strong enough to kill gods. Now he is starting a new family in Norse mythology land Midgard while STILL having the "godly" super strength despite the blade of Olympus having drained all his power and given it all to the world. (Note that he clearly didn't give up his combat experience nor his genetics as a demi-god son of Zeus. Even without those things, he's at minimum a heavily trained demi-god from the strongest of the Greek gods.) At least he acknowledged how fucking awful he was in the past and tried to be a good father toward his new son Atreus, but still keeping his no gods allowed policy.

*Lana Lang from the TV show ''Smallville'' (note; Smallville is not considered canon to the Superman story by DC Comics). Almost big a Mary Sue as Bella from Twilight; almost because she actually has a few useful skills, but she learns them unrealistically quickly (becoming a black belt in martial arts in ''one week''). She has the cliché orphan story but with a unique spin for maximum snowflake effect (her parents were killed by a meteor strike), everyone in the story loves her with the exception of some villains (the key word is SOME), and she's treated as someone who can do no wrong. Lana even got on the cover of TIME magazine, in-universe, as a child! She serves as a wedge between Clark and having a relationship with any other girl and between Clark and his eventual Superman destiny. Clark technically sacrificed his father to save her! In one episode, Clark rewound time on a day in which Lana died, and instead lost his father.

*Lightning from ''Final Fantasy XIII'', she is basically a pink-haired Cloud without any of Cloud's likable personality traits. She's currently the NEW AND ASTONISHING HEAVENLY Valkyrie that fights a purple Sephiroth in her new game "Lightning's Return". Not that we care, but she was created by Motomu Toriyama ([[Matt Ward]]'s Japanese cousin), a man with a Chris-Chan-like persona and Matthew Ward-style writing who is now continuously raping the franchise. He has a waifu love for Lightning like Paul has for Alice. Lightning is comparable to Alice on many levels, which says a lot, really. She also has tons of fucking DLC "costumes" dedicated to her so the player could dress her up and fap her to death. This is so fucking shameful that I'm crazy enough to believe Alice is a much capable heroine. Somebody kill me, please. Oh, just recently, Toriyama decided to have Lightning become a guest character in a future Final Fantasy. So not only is the franchise gonna suffer the rotting Emperor syndrome, but Lightning is now the literal goddess of every Final Fantasy game? Seriously, have you ever seen Paul doing such disgusting things with Alice? Like forcing Alice into an actual ''Resident Evil'' game (well, the ''Resident Evil'' franchise is dead as well)? Motomu Toriyama is officially worse than Paul Anderson!!
** Gets worse: Toriyama has stated that Lighting is the "first" strong female character in any ''Final Fantasy''. Even ignoring the dozens of better-written female characters, some of which he himself has written, the "strong" meaning just physical doesn't work either; FF7's Tifa (a game he worked on, btw) can punch tanks to death.

*Lisa Simpson from ''The Simpsons'', depending on the writer. Lisa has dipped into Mary Sue-dom the same way as the above-mentioned Brian from Family Guy (both serving time as smug mouthpieces for their show's creators on hot-button-topics). There was also a time where Lisa had the tendency to never be punished for the times she does do the wrong doing (she ruins Homer's BBQ in "Lisa the Vegetarian" and merely got scolded by him where Bart would likely have been strangled for it). One episode had people deferring to Lisa over Prof. Stephen Hawking in Hawking's area of expertise, and Groening once said Lisa is his favorite character and that he would do anything to prevent her from looking bad (to reference the strangling; the show's animators also applied a double-standard as they strongly protested against the idea of Homer strangling Lisa for upsetting him like he does with Bart). While Lisa's popularity in-universe fluctuates, at its worst the whole town bends over backwards for her even when it goes past characterization (eg; Springfieldians can be '''VERY''' sore losers, as demonstrated in the episode "Boys of Bummer" where the whole town - sans Marge - ridiculed Bart for losing a sports game [[Grimdark|to the point that they nearly drove the 10 year old to suicide]], but when Lisa lost a spelling contest she was applauded for winning second place and got a Mount Rushmore-style sculpture of her face). That being said, there are episodes where Lisa is depicted as unpopular at school, her activism is made over-the-top to be played for laughs, she's neglected at home and less of a "smartest person around" and more of a "only sane person surrounded by idiots", lessening the Sue-factor.

*Lucy from the 2014 movie of the same name. Long story short, she gets forced by gangsters to smuggle drugs in her stomach, but the container bursts and the drugs make her smarter and use more and more of her brain, because this movie was seriously written around the pseudoscientific premise that humans only use 10% of their brain. This also causes her to [[What|develop superpowers somehow]], and at the end of the movie she basically becomes god.

*Magneto is not inherently one, but he does have the INSANE potential to become this when crappy writers start taking his sympathetic traits too far ("Hey guys, let's [[What|make Magneto a member of the X-Men and have him date Rogue]]!") or just forget he's the bad guy. Hell, he sometimes becomes this even when he's a horribly despicable villain. Jeph Loeb's raping of the Ultimate Universe known as "Ultimatum" has him use his magnetic powers to nearly destroy the world just by waving his hands at Earth's magnetic poles (completely breaking the laws of physics in the process) and then effortlessly take on half the X-Men and almost all of the Ultimates singlehandedly and nearly win.

*Master Chief from the ''[[Halo]]'' series is definitely one. For one, he has [[Matt Ward|Ward-grade]] [[Heresy|plot armor]]. Seriously, it was repeated throughout the games that he was born with the word [[What|'''LUCK''']]. To further expand on his Sueness, this 7-foot tall hunk of raging Leprechaun saved the entire Galaxy ''Twice!'', single-handedly stopped the Human-Covie War at the last minute, escaped and defeated an entire race of "Super-Space-Zombie-Fungus" that could mindfuck Culture-tier Civilizations without [[What|having his own brain being raped]], is one of the last surviving SPARTAN II's, solo an entire legion of Covenant Honor-Guards (Which are equivalent to Spacemarine Captain in rank but with inferior gear and training) as well as successfully assassinating a very important Covie leader protected by said Guards without being captured, survived escaping an Exterminatus-level explosion that destroyed a Super-Weapon 'Ring' by ''out-flying it'', somehow his armor is strong enough to deflect Fuel-Rod shots (Which are essentially Plasma Cannons), destroy a flying and mentally psychotic lightbulb with an overcharged Lascannon as a Self-Defence weapon (To be fair 343 Guilty Spark ''is'' a Forerunner Janitor Robot), and did I mention he saved the entire Galaxy ''twice''? Furthermore with the release of Halo 4, MC is now magically gifted the genes and DNA by the Librarian to become full on [[RAGE|''impervious to a fucking Forerunner Super-Weapon/Death-Beam'']], which allows him to single-handedly fight through the insides of a very important Forerunner Capital Ship filled with Necron/Warp-Spiders kill bots and somehow through the act of plot, [[Derp|defeat ''the'' highest ranked Forerunner Military General that has the power to solo the entire Galactic Empire from Star Wars.]] I mean [[Rage|WTF!]] did the developers of Halo not realize that they just created a character with plot-armor so powerful that they make the likes of [[Kaldor Draigo]] look decent in comparison? Thankfully however, as pants-on-head retarded as some of the feats listed for MC are, he at least has some faults such as being psychologically raped in childhood, doesn't have the "Morally Superior to thou" personality and has a very grim view of the war, almost got killed by the killer space popcorn, being rather mediocre for a SPARTAN II when compared to his other colleagues, is only good in leadership and even then made some stupid mistakes, gets pretty beaten the fuck up by a Brute, his Superhuman abilities only stopped when fighting against low-ranked Elites and know he will lose against one if he fought one-by-one, and most of the battles he has been through had almost cost him his life. Those faults listed are what makes good old Chiefy ''NOT'' in the top 10 most powerful Mary-Sues and makes him somewhat tolerable albeit boring compared to the other listed.

*Moka Akashiya from Rosario + Vampire: Stupidly fucking OP enough to one-shot kick '''EVERY OTHER FUCKING MONSTER''' IN THE '''ENTIRE FUCKING SERIES''' AND '''BOTH''' SEASONS, has a ''special exception'' to her power levels made so she gets 'first ancestor' vampire blood to enable her to be ''even more powerful'', has no character development ''at all'' (this is true of both her personalities), is a student at an academy and one-shot kicks two members ''of the fucking faculty'' '''AND TOTALLY GETS AWAY WITH IT''', and is ''unbearably arrogant'', revelling in her power and basically saying everyone else is beneath her. The reason she's this bad? The author admits he LOVES vampires. So she's not only an Author Avatar, but a Canon Sue as well, existing only for [[Heresy|heretical deviants]] to fap to and the author to [[Slaanesh|schlick]] to. God-Emperor fucking damn it, Akihisa Ikeda. You little shit. What's worse is that [[Matt Ward|he has no shame about it]]. [[C.S.Goto| No, really]].
**This is lessened slightly during S1's later episodes (and S2 more generally), with a number of non-vampire characters who rather easily take her down or otherwise outmatch her being introduced. Compared to the big leagues, she's a promising new recruit but not comparable to them.

*Mordenkainen, Gary Gygax's personal avatar in the Greyhawk setting and a level 30 wizard who never fucking ages past 50 despite being a hundred fucking years old without turning into a lich, he became bald for some reason, which makes him look evil, but he remains Stupid Neutral.

*Olympia Vale, another character from the [[Halo]] Series and seems to be all around taking over the mantle of Mary Sue from Master Chief as he is pushed in the sidelines like an old man being pushed in the old folks home. Whilst Locke has been accused for being a rather bland and forgettable copycat cutout of the original MC, he still pales in comparison to that of Vale. Essentially imagine Vale as MC but remove the sociopathic and borderline mentally damaged aspects of John 117, make her a prodigy even beyond that of Spartan recruits which in turn made her pretty easy to integrate in the SPARTAN IV program and make her instantly learn the language of the Elites whilst by herself in space with the only excuse being that [[Bullshit|'she was bored'.]] Vale and to an extent, the majority of the SPARTAN IV's seem to be an ongoing campaign from Karen Traviss (AKA the Destroyer of Fluff and Halo's Matt Ward) [[Derp|to further demonize Halsey and her SPARTAN II program]] for no better reason other than being forced to be [[Fail|unethical in an organization as ethically sound as the]] [[Inquisition|Imperial Inquisition.]] As you can imagine, this has already spurred some [[Skub|ire bitching]] in the Halo community and only time will tell if newer sequels from the game would flash her character out in a more decent or obscene matter.

*Ozymandias, AKA, Adrian Alexander Veidt from ''Watchmen''. He was born into a wealthy family, then threw it all away and earned even more money. He's a perfect athlete, good-looking, smartest man in the world (He mind fucked Dr. Manhattan, a blueish godlike superhuman) and a vegetarian. In the book he is able to successfully genetically engineer some sort of monster that would be teleported to New York and as it dies unleash a psychic shockwave that would kill millions in a "common enemy" plot to avert World War 3 by uniting them against "interdimensional aliens" (he does the same in the movie, but instead of aliens, he tricks people into making Dr Manhattan their common enemy - Dr Manhattan himself goes along with the plan once he finds out so there will be world peace). The only downside he had is loneliness, since he had betrayed all his friends and killed the only companion in his life, a fucking genetically-engineered female lynx named Bubastis, by having her bait Dr. Manhattan to the incinerator and killed them both with a switch. Still, Ozymandias is perfect because Mary Sue don't need friends. It was also portrayed that his "common enemy" scheme to stop World War 3 (which involved killing millions) in a positive or at least sympathetic light. He also caught a bullet fired from a gun with his bare hands, and the bullet didn't just go through them, like it would in real-life, despite him not having superpowers. Interesting to note that he the idol he worships: Alexander of Macedonia, is a man born before Christ, and the name Ozymandias is reference to a freaking [[Necron|Egyptian pharaoh: Ramses II]], proving that Adrian is just as egoistic as [[Dante]] and the [[Ultramarines]] by have the name of an ancient ruler as his own nickname. Hell, his color page on "before the watchman" made him looked like some sort of floating Jesus!! Thankfully, he has the decency to acknowledge what he did was wrong in the comics while also justifying it as being for the greater good...which it was in that it stopped World War 3, and he is more complex and well rounded as a character than several others.
** There's also the deliberately ambiguous implication that Ozymandias could get some comeuppance in the future (author Alan Moore stated that what happened after the end of the graphic novel is for each reader to decide for themselves); this is done with Dr Manhattan's cryptic response to Ozymandias' question whether things would work out, and Rorschach giving his journal - containing evidence implicating Ozymandias and revealing his plan - to a news outlet.
** A direct sequel to Watchmen called "Doomsday Clock" came and finally made Ozymandias pay for what he has done. After the news outlet ousted Veidt's plans, it started a chain of reaction that eventually led to his downfall as well as the supposed end of humanity. The European Union dissolved, the USSR went back its old warmonger ways with their relation between the US degrading to lows below even the Cold War, nuclear weapons failed to be disarmed and one such missile was fired from Russia to New York City. Adrian is now the most wanted man in the world and has brain cancer (possibly ironically validating what he framed Dr. Manhattan for). Still, he managed to fight his way out of this chaos with other DC heroes (Superman and the godamned Batman mind you, characters with thick plot armor), the Comedian (brought back by Manhattan), pretty much everyone around the world but especially Dr. Manhattan (who masterminded this all from his glass palace on Mars). Also, keep in mind this sequel is not written by Alan Moore himself so it's at best considered an alternate continuity.

*Prometheus (the DC supervillain) certainly didn't ''start'' as this but ended up being twisted into one. When first introduced he was a genuinely cool and intimidating supervillain whose insane skill and manipulations were balanced out by his crippling mental issues (which the heroes exploited to take him down). Unfortunately, writers who weren't as skilled as Grant Morrison got their paws on him and made him ludicrously overpowered to the point where he single-handedly ''destroyed Star City, killing Roy Harper's daughter in the process''. Thus Prometheus went from an awesome member of Batman's rogues gallery to a complete waste of pages. Thankfully he was prevented from becoming any worse thanks to Green Arrow putting an arrow through the bastard's skull.

*Ramsay Bolton (show version): Oh good fucking God, where to start with this particular Villain Sue? Well, for one, he manages to take on twenty of the best Ironborn warriors, who were all heavily armed and armored, while not just unarmored but SHIRTLESS and armed with nothing but a kitchen knife and a mace, and SOMEHOW kicks their asses. Then, much later, he is shown to completely annihilate the battle-hardened Stormlander army led by Stannis Baratheon, the greatest military commander in Westeros, with nothing but cavalry, while the previous episodes had established that Ramsay is a tactically inept moron. (This can also tie in with the fact that the writers of the show seriously fucked over Stannis from "stern-but-honorable competent tactical genius" into "greedy, fanatical dumbass"). Finally, he is constantly shown to get his way no matter how stupidly contrived it seems to the viewer, arguably the worst case being marrying and deflowering Sansa Stark by raping her and getting the killing blow on fan-favorite giant Wun-Wun. His Sueness ends with his face getting caved in by Jon and fed to his own hounds by Sansa.

*Rey AKA Ma-Rey Sue from the [[Star Wars]]. From the release of the first movie, she already caught some backlash among the old guards of Star Wars who consider her a self-insert Mary Sue with a feminist agenda. Leaving aside the politics, the resulting trilogy and related events have only confirmed Rey’s Mary Sue-dom. Reasons from the first movie alone include Rey showing [[What|a better knowledge of the Millennium Falcon’s inner workings than then Han Solo and Chewbacca]] who’d maintained the ship for decades where she had it for less than a week, being offered a job by Han shortly after meeting him despite him and Chewie being sufficient crew for the Falcon and Han being a cynic who barely knows her (like something right out "A Trekkie's Tale"), Rey suddenly being a [[Wat|powerful Force user who can resist a trained Force-user's mind probe]] despite no previous mention of her being Force sensitive and [[Bullshit|Rey performing said Jedi mind trick while in captivity almost immediately after learning she's Force Sensitive]] despite the fact that performing said trick is known to be difficult to master (to be fair, Rey had just been in telepathic contact with somebody who knew how to pull off a Mind Trick, and wasn't as good at telepathic interrogation as he thought he was). Rey’s only character flaw is recklessness, and while it does get her captured by the villains in the first and third films, this is offset by Rey getting rescued unharmed both times by luck/plot armour, which is a Sue-ish trait (at least Luke suffered actual setbacks and injuries – such as a severed hand and failing to save Han from Boba Fett). Furthering Rey’s status of Mary Sue is the “creator's relationship to the character” part, with several of the filmmakers either pulling new explanations out of their asses to explain Rey’s abilities (or retconning them, such as the Force “cheat-coding” and the “Force Dyad”) or attacking anyone who didn’t like the character by tarring them with the same negative brushes ([[SJW|accusations of sexism got lots of usage]]). The third film threw in the big twist that Rey is ''really'' Rey '''Palpatine'''. You heard right, Rey is literally Emperor Palpatine's ''granddaughter'', almost as if they're trying to one-up Luke’s relation to Vader. The third film also ends with Rey taking the last name “Skywalker” while Luke and Leia’s force ghosts look on approvingly. For a more comprehensive coverage on why Rey is a Mary Sue, look up the results of the Mary Sue Litmus test on the discussion page.
** While it could be argued that Luke and Anakin are just as ridiculous, they fit easier the form of tropes they are. Luke, being the most classic [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheHero Hero] ever, is quickly established as good at most things he does, culminating in flying an X-Wing through the Death Star trench and making an one-in-a-million shot to destroy the Death Star, and this is less than a week before he was just a backwater farmboy, albeit one who is outright stated to be both a decent pilot and skilled shot. Though while Luke used the Force untrained like Rey did, his only feats were enhancing skills he already had and developed; a stretch, but more plausible than pulling new skills ''that require training to use'' out of nowhere. Anakin is the [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChosenOne Chosen One], and people who are chosen tend to be skilled and powerful regardless because the Powers-That-Be have their backs on top of any personal skills they have. Young Ani competes and wins a pod-race that only aliens can normally participate in due to the sheer insanity of it, and then blows up a Trade Federation Dreadnought with a fighter he'd never been in before (even then kid Anakin also had R2-D2's help). Again, no problem. Now Rey is about as much the Hero as Luke but is an Unchosen One compared to Anakin, and the wildest thing she does in her first movie is to use the Force untrained (much like Luke does in A New Hope) and gain the upper hand on a Sith apprentice. Why people doesn't expect her to be [[-4 Str|as powerful]] as [[Lawful Good|Luke]] and [[BBEG|Anakin]] is better left for another discussion entirely, though the fact that Rey is touted as a strong female character while being propped up by the failures of men and saved by men throughout the trilogy doesn't help her case. Also, Rey has never once lost a fight in the movies, while Anakin first got his arm chopped off in a hilariously one-sided fight with Dooku then later had all his limbs cut off and was lit on fire in his duel with Obi-Wan, and Luke was totally outmatched by Vader in The Empire Strikes Back and got his ass handed to him on a beskar platter.
** Another thing to consider is the ridiculous timeline of Episode 7 and 8. In approximately 5-6 days, Rey went from being a scavenger on Jakku to defeating Snoke's bodyguards and being on par with Kylo Ren in combat.

*Richard, from the Sword of Truth series (he's not as bad in the TV series). He is always considered an ideal hero despite being cruel, sociopathic, and thinking that the universe should bend over backwards for him [[What|(which it actually does)]]. Everyone who disagrees with him is evil (even if that's the only reason they're considered a villain) or turns evil. Gratuitous rape is thrown in by the author as a cheap way to make him look better (making villains as reprehensible as possible doesn't solve the problem of the protagonist being completely un-heroic).

*Richard B. Riddick, from the Riddick universe. Vin Diesel's personal self-insert inspired from his own D&D Rogue. Didn't start out as a Mary Sue though, going from a sensible power level ''(where a fist-fight with a morphine-addicted merc is reasonably fair)'' with dubious morality and a lovably snarky badass attitude. Later becoming ''(particularly amongst the directors cuts)'' a superpowered badass who can single-handedly take on squads of soldiers with a knife, resist soul sucking, commune with animals and make threats with [[Just as Planned]] modes of killing. ''("kill you with my teacup" / "dead in 5 seconds")'', oh... he can also explode as shown in the director's cuts and off-screen in the video games. His later portrayals also show his morality becoming a "told you so" mentality, where, when people die it's really because they are the assholes and nothing to do with Riddick.

*Rick Sanchez, of Rick and Morty, in seasons 3+. (See Rick under "Special Cases", below; the only reason we're not moving him here completely is because Rick and Morty arguably became an ''entirely'' different show between seasons 2 and 3.)

*Roran, from the Inheritance Cycle. He started as a farmer-apprentice blacksmith, yet he managed to become an invincible warrior, charismatic presence, expert orator and master strategist without any training. We are talking of a young man who soloes 194 soldiers in a melee battle and wins without taking any major injuries. He then survived a public flogging severe enough to be an alternative to execution despite it being not long after that battle. He also beat an Urgal in a wrestling match despite the Urgal being stronger, bigger, better trained and having horns. In the third book he even single-handedly defeated a Ra'zac; a race that are to humans what wolves are to sheep. Then in the final battle Roran bested the magically-enhanced warrior who killed the elf-queen, and did so without magic or special weapons of his own. Yes, Roran managed to achieve feats that even elves would consider impossible. While his cousin Eragon has the (weak) excuses of magical enhancement and helping from his dragon companion, Roran doesn't. He is a common man who, for plot reasons, creates a plot armor just by thinking about his girlfriend.

* Sarah Kerrigan from the Starcraft series has become this more and more as time passes. In the first game she's just a terran ghost (psionic assassin) who gets turned into a human-zerg hybrid and disappears from the plot after like two or three missions in the zerg campaign, but then she becomes one of the main villains of the expansion pack and everyone else in in the game becomes a thundering dumbass so she can look like a master manipulator despite being played for a sap by yet another character, and commits several atrocities to serve herself and her own agenda but is not punished them in any way despite multiple characters swearing revenge on her. Then the sequel ramped it up. Out of fucking nowhere she is designated the savior of the galaxy from the new villain in town with virtually no justification offered except that Blizzard were too cowardly and attached to the the character to follow through on people wanting her dead. She gets purified of zerg corruption and another character who's more fun and interesting gets killed off so she can live. The zerg campaign centers on her and shows her doing yet more pointlessly-cruel and destructive things in the name of petty revenge, its only concessions to the ridiculousness of letting her live being some half-hearted acknowledgements of her past crimes. And after a pair of pointless guest appearances in the protoss campaign and its prologue campaign, she gets picked by the last good Xel'Naga in the universe to receive his essence and become a Xel'Naga herself so she can defeat the main villain in a laser beam-off. And after her boyfriend, a better-written character who spends all his time getting shit on throughout the series, is seen moping in a bar at the end of the final campaign, she gets to ass pullingly make him a Xel'Naga too, for some moron's idea of resolving their relationship with happily ever after ending.

*Sakamoto from 'Haven't You Heard? I'm Sakamoto' never fails at anything and always manages to look [[Awesome]] no matter what he is doing or how much the other characters try to sabotage him, and it is hilarious.

*Selene, from the 'Underworld' movies. Throughout the series, she bears several similarities to [[Alice]]; both are experts with weapons, both have superior biology to their respective species (humans for Alice, Vampires for Selene), both kill their way through swarms of enemies without getting a scratch, both have little regard for their source material, and both are played by the wives of the directors of their respective film series.

*Sun Crusher, from [[Star Wars]]. Possibly one of the few cases where a Mary Sue was not a character, but a ''superweapon''. This...thing first came under the much [[Skub]] Jedi Academy books and was considered so fucking overpowered its mere existence created more plotholes than [[Erda]] would have pushed out. Hated by basically everyone in the fandom, this fucking trainwreck of a superweapon was small and fast as hell, had weapons that could [[Exterminatus|destroy an entire star system]] and has armor so powerful it could even [[Wat|tank a glancing hit from a ''Prototype Death Star''.]] Seriously, there was one case where the Sun Crusher destroyed an entire ISD by simply [[RAGE|''ramming into the fucker''.]] And you thought Goku's power wanking was filthy, this abomination makes the [[World Engine]] look limp-dicked in comparison. Considered one of the worst examples of Legends' superweapon power creep, this overpowered mess of an idea almost broke the Star Wars EU itself since anyone piloting this proverbial [[Rape|rape train]] could have single-handily curb-stomped both the Galactic Empire and the Yuuzhan Vong ''combined''. Also, it kinda looks like an ice cream cone for some reason.

*Squirrel Girl from Marvel Comics is another one of these Sues who's actually popular and enjoyed for it, probably because she's played entirely for laughs: Doreen Grey is a [[Mutant]] teenage girl with Spider-Man levels of strength/speed/agility, can grow bone knuckles, can talk to squirrels (and have them do her bidding) and has the ability to defeat any villain she wants off-screen. This includes big-name villains like Doctor Doom (she beat him in her first appearance and several times afterwards, and this is a rare instance of a Doom-related incident that was ''not'' smoothed over with the "Just a Doombot" excuse), Ego the Living Planet (who is, like his name suggests, a planet, meaning that a teenage girl beat up a planet), Thanos (who is one of the biggest badasses of the Marvel Universe, but the writers saved his face by replacing him in this instance with a perfect copy of him), Deadpool (whom she calls the mean, mean man; he's actually scared of her), M.O.D.O.K. and tons of other people. She was once part of a C-list superhero team, but quit because she thought she was holding them back (which she was entirely correct about: she once apologized to them for being late because she had to beat a 100' space dragon) and left for Marvel's Nexus of the Multiverse: New York. Despite her unapologetic Mary Sue-ness the fans love her and see her as the one spot of light in the otherwise relentlessly [[grimdark]] Marvel Universe, because again, she's played entirely for laughs and there's nary a title in Marvel Comics that couldn't do with more laughs.

*[[Superman]] in the hands of a poor writer. He is morally perfect, one of the strongest beings in the DC universe, and his one weakness that's supposed to kill him never works <s>ex: he lifts an entire continent of Kryptonite after being stabbed by a dagger made of it</s> thankfully ''Superman Returns'' had so many plotholes that ''Man of Steel'' declared it all non-canon. The only reliable way to nerf him is to have Batman beside him, because Superman always becomes a dumbass when Batman is around (go watch DCAU Justice League to see for yourself). Good writers can avoid falling into this by having him go up against villains who can genuinely threaten him (such as General Zod, Maxima or Doomsday; in fact, the writers made Doomsday specifically to be a threat who can physically match Superman), showing that even with all his vast powers there are things Superman just can't do (in one tragic story it turned out that even though he can benchpress planets, he can't stop his parents from dying of cancer) or emphasizing that his strong morals are not intrinsic to him, but a product of a happy childhood, caring parents and a network of close friends, and he wouldn't necessarily have them if he were raised somewhere less pleasant (like, say, Planet Apokolips or the Soviet Union - both actually happened in Elseworlds stories, look it up) or if those close to him were taken away (like in the Injustice and Kingdom Come comic series).

*Tauriel, Peter Jackson's special snowflake from ''The Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug'' (a Mary Sue in something related to Tolkien; [[Tolkien|Beren and Luthien are deep and well-written enough to get a pass]], this is a sad day). Not content with undermining or retconning the book, Jackson creates a special snowflake elf OC. Tauriel's ridiculously skilled at fighting to the point she matches Legolas in archery - and he's pretty OP in the films (as shown when she shoots an arrow at him when he surprises her, he returns fire and their arrows collide with each other) - she also has healing powers. According to all of Tolkien's books, only a select few elves can heal people such as Lord Elrond Half-Elven, wielder of one of the three Elven Rings of Power, some who's studied healing for millennia and is a direct descendant of the Kings of the Noldor; all things which Tauriel lacks. In addition, she's ship-teased with canon-characters Legolas (who never appears, or even gets mentioned, in the book - albeit he was shoehorned into the film to cash in on his popularity with fangirls and his presence makes some sense since his father Thranduil was in the book) and Kili. To be fair, some of the ship tease between Kili and Tauriel is well handled as well, in particular when Kili teases her and then tells her stories when locked in prison.

* Tobias (or Takuto in the original Japanese) from the Pokémon anime. His design looking like someone was trying ''way'' too hard to make him seem "mysterious" and "badass" is just the tip of the iceberg. For starters, he has ''at least'' two legendaries in the form of Darkrai and Latios, despite the anime earlier establishing how difficult it was for even Frontier Brains (who are trainers deliberately selected by Battle Frontier head honcho Scott from among the best of the best) to acquire and control Pokémon of such caliber. How he got such Pokémon is never explained. When he faced off against Ash in the Sinnoh League after only getting a few mentions and cameos beforehand, he knocked out Ash's entire team while losing only the aforementioned Darkrai and Latios, then went on to win the league and essentially disappear from the show entirely. To put it simply, he was clearly only put in the anime to prevent Ash from winning so that he wouldn't end his journey - which didn't even make any sense, since Ash had ''already'' won a league (the Orange League) and still continued traveling and training; as a matter of fact, it would be out of character for a spirited competition hound like Ash to sit on his laurels no matter how many awards and accolades he won. While Tobias wasn't the first character to knock Ash out of a league competition and wouldn't be the last, him being an inexplicably absurdly overpowered trainer who blatantly only existed to keep Ash from winning made him by far the most hated.

* Tyrion Lannister from Game of Thrones, most of it strictly in the show (especially in the later seasons), much, much less in the books. He is exceedingly smart, capable of fighting against trained soldiers double his size, ends up at Daenarys' court despite her having more than ample reasons to distrust him, gets in charge of Mereen for no reason given when Daenarys disappears, runs a complete shitshow on top of it and still somehow ends up in her council, where he continues to give advice that is just plain wrong and sets back Daenarys' efforts to retake Westeros. His sheer incompetence in Seasons 7 and 8 should get him at least fired, if not outright executed. Instead, the showrunners abandon his character arc altogether to make him the audience's avatar and the closest thing the setting has to Prime Minister in the end, who also is able to make all of the lords of Westeros follow his idea of an elective monarchy, which he came up with on a whim. This is counterbalanced by his character as portrayed in the books and the earlier seasons (incidentally the ones where GRRM was still actively involved in the production of the series), where he is impulsive, arrogant and extremely vindictive (to the point of murdering his former lover, a prostitute, for sleeping with his father in a jealous rage) towards nearly everyone in his immediate vicinity. To add to this, he is also often too blinded by his hatred for his own family to see the bigger picture; where Tywin gave him the authority to act as Hand of the King in his absence as a last chance to prove his worth for the Lannister name, only for him to disregard all of Tywin's advice and orders out of spite.

*[[Star Trek|Wesley Crusher]]. Wesley FUCKING Crusher. Originating from the same franchise as the original Mary Sue, Wesley is a very young ensign training to be an officer in Starfleet, where he's earned the admiration of many of the bridge officers. He became something of a protege to Captain Picard, who was impressed by Wesley after he showed that he had learned all the controls at the captain's chair when they first met. <s>While not morally perfect or incorruptible Wesley is as close as he can be in most cases</s> He's only moral by Gene Roddenberry's standards ''(which were messed up beyond belief, the man thought it was okay to be a prima donna director but not for children to grieve over dead loved ones, and that's not getting into his corporate shyster practices, anti-religious prejudices and sexism; seriously we're not making any of that up)'', by a normal person's, he's smug and egocentric, along with his [[Deus Ex Machina]] techno skills, which are shown off by making the rest of the crew look useless. He notably also gets the Enterprise into danger before getting it out of it, and never gets called out for it. Many people thought that he was an insufferable little shit, among them Wil Wheaton (the actor who PLAYED the guy... and coming from him, that's saying something). Wesley is even named after Gene Roddenberry, as Wesley was Gene's middle name - or to give Gene's full name, Eugene ''Wesley'' Roddenberry. That said, Wesley gets better once Roddenbery wasn't dictating the story. He does get served a healthy dose of reality in "The First Duty", wherein he lies to cover up the fact that his Academy flight team was doing a dangerous and illegal stunt that got one of them killed and pinned all the blame for the accident on the dead kid. Picard absolutely ''shreds'' him when he realizes what's going on, delivering one of the best speeches of any Trek series in the process, and Wesley faces actual consequences for his actions.

*[[Loli|Young main characters]] in crappy [[Asians|Japanese]] [[anime|animes]] and [[manga]].

*Main characters from Japanese [[Isekai]] light novels. Usually they were nerds or losers whose only interested in a particular underrated hobby/talent in their world, but became a fucking skyrim tier powerhouse once they enter the so-called mysterious otherworld. Upon entering, they became super powerful since their somewhat boring talent suddenly becomes a miracle to the other world residents thus making the main character successful. It is a trend that they will done the following to prove their superiority: wrecking Saturday cartoon villain tier antagonist (usually a reference to the main character's childhood bully) that made even [[Ahriman]] look good, instantly gained many female party members because the main character was an unpopular virgin in their original world (and no males allowed, they are yucky), using their otaku knowledge to solve every problem that was deems unsolvable in the other world (more reason that their useless hobby/talent that was deemed useless has more use in the otherworld). The other world usually consist the cliches of JRPG world: [[Medieval Stasis]], fantasy creatures like dwarves and elves, old European like hierarchy and cultures, monsters, JRPG mechanic. One of many trend of isekai protagonist is that almost all of them have tragic background featuring how they were bullied in high school or parent suicide or some typical Japanese cliches of tragic (such as truck-kun). There are also many situations where authors would made the protagonist suffer by have him stuck in a misunderstood situation, setup by the unlikable villain as an attempt to make him look good. Then again, these kind of self fulfilling characters are authors self insert whom was a victim of a depressing citizens of their society, or they thought. There are a few exceptions to this such as Ainz Ooal Gown, Kazuma Satou or Kazuya Souma who are thrown into situations that requires far more intelligence, planning and Indy Polys than your typical light novel protagonist can muster. Some try to subvert this with mixed results. ''Re:Zero'' is a deconstructive take where its protagonist (Subaru Natsuki) dies painfully over and over and ''over'' again, and eventually confesses to everyone around him that he's completely useless. (Though then he starts learning from his mistakes and becomes more competent-- but '''not''' an uber-badass.)
**[[Tl;dr]], they are [[Cringe]] incarnate. It would have been funny if it wasn't so fucking ''pathetic'', and given the sheer amount of shitty isekai, harem trash plaguing the manga industry, it should ''really'' tell you the lack of self-esteem on whoever wrote these fucking abominations of literature.

*Drift from [[Transformers]] is a particularly fascinating and useful case study, as he not only is a good example of a Sue, but is also a prime example of how a Sue can be redeemed into a legitimately [[Awesome]] character. Beginning life as the original character of a newbie writer named Shane McCarthy, Drift was effectively [[FAIL|every stereotypical Mary Sue fan character trait in a single character]]; super-skilled beyond everyone else, a former member of the bad guys turned good, always right about everything, never allowed to lose, shilled by established characters and the creators, milking his “tragic” backstory for sympathy, characters who dislike him portrayed as close-minded jerks, [[Weeaboo|shallow anime-influences]] like dual-wielding katanas, and an all-around “[[Edgy]] teenager’s idea of cool” aesthetic. But then McCarthy left the series and Drift was handed off to a new writer, James Roberts, and everything changed; Drift was completely reworked as a character and made… ''likable''. Now he was skilled but not to an extreme, his personality was given more depth (most notably rewriting his shallow anime mimicry into a samurai-esque sense of honor and spirituality), he had true flaws and made mistakes he had to suffer or atone for, characters who disliked or disagreed with him were given legitimate reason for it, and even his “villain turned hero” backstory was deconstructed by repeatedly emphasizing that he still has a “bad guy” mentality/instinct he often fights against and which contributes to his aforementioned mistakes, such as being overly-quick to resort to violence or being willing to take part in an illegal conspiracy [[Tau|for the “greater good”]]. In short, he went from an embarrassingly juvenile fan character that everybody wanted dead to a beloved member of the cast who would make many future appearances because people legitimately liked him now. Even more impressively, when his original creator Shane McCarthy returned to the character years later, he demonstrated that he himself had improved significantly as a writer, actually acknowledging and building off the work other writers did with him where most Mary Sue authors would ignore or lash out at anything that undermined their Sue. It all goes to showcase the reason that the “Bad Writer Syndrome” mentioned on the main page exists; sometimes the only thing a Mary Sue needs to not be a Mary Sue is a new writer who isn’t as unhealthily emotionally-invested in the character and has the objectivity/common sense to see what they ''need'' to be rather then what their creator ''wanted'' them to be.

*Judging from the rest of the list, [[Skub|any character you don't like.]]

===Works with more than too many of them===
*[[In Nomine]]'s Superiors may or may not qualify; if they do, they do so as a block, thus placing them here. The problem here is that each Superior is an NPC made to more or less '''be''' their entire organization (''most'' PCs report directly to at least one of them), and thus needs to be larger-than-life. Ultra high-powered NPCs plus Strong Personalities plus Needing to Show Up Frequently is a formula only in need of a small amount Bad Writing or Poor GMing to go into hardcore Suedom. On the "possibly further from Suedom" side, all the Superiors have exploitable character flaws, but the result is still an edifying example of why High Powered NPCs are a problem.

*Sonichu, made by you-know-who. To make a long article short, just about anyone who is friends with the author or from some franchise <s>s/he/it</s> they like gets to be overwhelmingly hax and unbound by the laws of morality, everyone who isn't is pretty much either nonexistent or very very evil (the latter guaranteed for any character representing someone the author has a personal beef with).

*[[Twilight]]
**[[Derp|Bella Swan]]: Though she is a pretentious, manipulative, male-dependent, self-pitying downer who takes her parents for granted and makes no time for her friends, Bella is adored by all. Her first day of school is supposedly hard for her, despite the fact that every person she meets instantly presents her with a best friend badge and/or falls in love with her. She's also clumsy EXCEPT when there's a moment where she'll die if she does something clumsy. Add being a painfully obvious author surrogate and even being the product of one of the author's dreams (SMeyer admitted that herself), "clumsy" Bella is ''the'' Mary Sue of her generation.
**[[FAIL|Edward Cullen]]: This character is the reason the popularity of vampires took a massive hit when the book came out. Possibly the most rage-inspiring aspect is he introduced the idea that vampires [[What|SPARKLE HARMLESSLY LIKE DIAMONDS IN SUNLIGHT]]! He can read minds, is nearly impossible to kill, doesn't have the vampire weakness to holy objects despite seeing himself as an abomination against God, doesn't feed off humans despite his literal bloodlust (except for criminals or "those who deserve to die"), is always fashionable, owns exotic and expensive cars, and is ridiculously rich and multi-talented. Despite being a textbook case of an emotionally abusive and controlling boyfriend to Bella, he's always treated as having the moral high ground... except when he refuses to make Bella a vampire, but that gets swept under the rug as soon as he changes his mind.
**[[Anal circumference|Jacob Black]]: A Native American werewolf and the third side of the franchise's infamous love triangle. He commits sexual assault on Bella by forcing a kiss (a line not even Edward crossed), trolls the vampires and switches sides between the werewolves and the vampires without consequence. The worst part is when he [[FATAL|falls in love with Bella's and Edward's newborn daughter because of some kind of weird werewolf pheromone thing, practicing wife husbandry on her as soon as she can walk and talk... and all the other characters are fine with this]]. The story also gushes about his looks to the point that the movie doesn't go five minutes without the character taking off his shirt and the camera focusing on his muscles.

*Warhammer unfortunately has several examples, many of them a result of Matt Ward's bad writing. They get much better in the hands of more skilled writers, or in [[If the Emperor had a Text-to-Speech Device|parodies]].
**[[Cato Sicarius]]. Seriously this guy is Mary Sue's Mary Sue. He was born to a noble house on Talassar, trained with a sword as soon as he could hold one, and was inducted into the Ultramarines. He got commendation after commendation, going from sergeant to company champion to Captain of the 2nd Company in several decades. He refined lightning assaults to near perfection and knows what to do after giving the battlefield only a quick glance. He leads a company of mini-Sues, each squad having a special title for some great feat, such as their Devastators having somehow destroyed a Titan and a tactical squad that hasn't taken a casualty in close to 100 years. He is not only captain of the 2nd Company but "Master of the Watch", "Knight Champion of Macragge", "Grand Duke of Talassar", and "High Suzerain of Ultramar". Seriously, those last two titles are [[pretend|completely made up]]. He's a complete dick, valuing glory for himself and his company over all else. He outright admits to his men that he didn't care about the planet Damnos when they were battling the Necrons over it (where he got his ass handed to him by a no-name Necron Lord). He also decided to appoint himself judge, jury, and executioner for Uriel Ventris when he broke from the Codex, even though they're the same rank and only the Chapter Master has the right to do stuff like that. Oh yeah that reminds me, to top it all off most of the chapter thinks he's next in line to be Chapter Master, instead of Captain Agemman of the first company, even though he's got much (see fuck-tons) more experience than Sicarius. Add all that to the Mary Sue-ness of being a Space Marine and being in the Ultramarines and it reaches critical levels.
*** More recent works have deconstructed and played with this: his glory-hound behaviour and massive ego have put his company at extreme risk multiple times, with his egotistical behaviour at Damnos contributing rather heavily to the thrashing the Second Company was handed by the Necrons; furthermore, he's been relegated to the effectively ceremonial role of Rowboat Girlyman's bodyguard while the Primarch in question attempts to unfuck the Imperium and train Cato to be less of a massive prick. On top of this, he's established to have some pretty severe PTSD after being lost in the Warp near the start of the Indomitus Crusade, which knocked a good deal of his former brashness out of him.
**[[Eldrad|Eldrad Ulthran]], and what's worse: he knows he is, and is a complete dick about it. Though he was recently imprisoned by his Craftworld for trying to help the Imperium and messing up Ynnead's ascension. He then joins the Ynnari after being shunned by his Craftworld.
**[[Kaldor Draigo]]. Wrote his mentor's name into Mortarion's heart without contracting Spess AIDS, or being fucking destroyed by said Primarch which despite each of those 19 (21?) being capable of rolling through a squad of Custodes without too much effort. Then he got schllupped into the Warp and somehow remains pure.
***Like Sicarius, other authors have taken steps to reduce the Sue factor of Draigo by showing him as a moderately flawed character and retconning some of the more egregiously Sue-ish moments - see the 'Placed in the hands of other authors' section of his page for examples of this.
**[[Marneus Calgar]], especially post-Ward. Killing an Avatar of Khaine by punching its chest in and not getting seriously hurt in said fight with one. An Avatar of Khaine is supposed to be as hard to kill as a Bloodthirster, something that takes a Primarch or a Bio-Titan to beat in a one-on-one fight (then again, Games Workshop loves [[Worf|worfing]] Avatars, and Space Marines are their Creator's Pet). Calgar had his limbs chopped off by the Swarmlord, which didn't kill him due to Plot Armor, and he leads the Ultramarines, themselves considered a Mary Sue chapter in a Mary Sue faction (see the Space Marine entry on this page). These are just the first few examples.
**[[Captain Matthias Ward]], I am the better Mary-Sue.
**The [[Primarch]]s <s>and their [[Warhammer High|daughters]].</s>{{BLAM|'''THOSE WORDS ARE BLASPHEMY! /tg/ can only create perfection!'''}} (To be fair, the daughters are only Sues in that they inherited their Sue traits from their fathers.)
**[[Uriel Ventris]] - despite initially coming off as a subversion of Wardian Ultramarines-are-the-best Mary Sue bullshit, he quickly devolves into [[Skub|Ultramarines are the worst unless they use the Codex to wipe their asses and act like Space Wolves]] - which is pretty much limited to - guess who? - McNeill's OC-Do-Not-Steal Special Snowflake Ventris.
** [[Iskandar Khayon]] is a pretty awesome villain, but some of the stuff he does is just unbelievable, though some of that may be because his book is actually him telling the events to his enemies while captured, so he may be lying about a lot of it to fuck with them.

*World of Warcraft:
**Kalecgos (AKA Kalec), blue dragon who can disguise himself as a human-elf hybrid; from [[World of Warcraft|World of Warcrabs]]. Ham-fistedly inserted into the Blood Elves' redemption story arc as an enabler. Later he takes over the blue dragonflight even though he's not the oldest, wisest or most powerful blue dragon, but simply because he was the only surviving named blue dragon with anything approaching a personality. Later he hooks up with Jaina Proudmoore, a powerful human mage/noblewoman/faction leader introduced in Warcraft III. She does this in spite of their vast age difference (which made her reject an Elven prince who loved her) and bad track record with lovers. Though Kalecgos later disbanded them as an organization, he's still the go-to blue dragon (despite older, more powerful ones like Azuregos and Senegos still being in the lore).
**Jarod Shadowsong, a Night Elf commander shoehorned into the setting in books "War of the Ancients" and "Wolfheart", by Richard Knaak. Brother to canon character Maiev Shadowsong, love interest to Shandris Feathermoon, - Tyrande's adopted daughter with both characters canon since WC3 (Shandris in case you don't recognize her, is that one Elf archer with a unique model present in the first two and last Night Elf missions in ''Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos'') - and the Night Elves greatest war hero after Furion and Tyrande themselves. His mere presence raises morale so much that people, to quote the book, "automatically fight harder and obey him with greater swiftness". He survived a one-on-one fight against Archimonde, a demon lord who can destroy cities single-handedly, because he suddenly decided to toy with Jarod even though time was of the essence. Said war saw various Night Elf DEMIGODS place themselves under Jarod's command! He also lacks any personality beyond humble hero and has no character flaws that effect him negatively. He spends thousands of years after the first fight against the Burning Legion resting on his laurels and doesn't show up when they invade the second time, but no-one calls Jarod out on this in-universe. On top of this, Shandris' love for him is poorly written and makes no sense. Her feelings were puppy love, and after that, Shandris had had no contact with Jarod for ''thousands of years'' until they met again during the Cataclysm. And when they met, Shandris propositioned Jarod '''at his wife's funeral'''. This bears repeating; Shandris pursued someone who she hadn't spoken to for millennia and who was married to someone else by trying to hook up him before his wife's body was even cold (and Shandris is not that kind of ignorant/thoughtless/crazy/predatory person).
**Krasus (AKA Korialstraz) a high-ranking red dragon, mainly due to the author's overuse of him, and said author is also Richard Knaak. He disguises himself as an elf, and said elf is one of the leaders of the Kirin Tor. On top of this, he's Consort/Adviser of the Dragon Queen, he might as well be the Dragon King considering how much importance Alexstraza puts on him and how few decisions she makes until after he's gone. He also gets sent back in time to partake of a historical event despite the fact HIS YOUNGER SELF WAS AROUND IN THAT TIME. He also set up another Mary Sue in Warcraft, Rhonin (NOTE; both characters were created by the same author). To be fair, Krasus is tame compared to most WoW examples listed here.
**Med'an, half human, one quarter draenei and one quarter orc. This alone should set your alarm on. Let's add that he is the son of Garona and Medivh, two quite important lore characters, with the latter being one of the most powerful mortals EVER. Not enough? He is the focus of a prophecy about who will save he world and, thanks to his mixed ancestry, he is skilled in arcane magic (ok, this quite makes sense), but also with the holy light and elements. And, obviously, he saves the world and gains his father's awesome staff and charge.
**Rhonin, human archmage of the Kirin Tor. By Richard Knaak again, Blizzard Entertainment's equivalent of [[Robin Cruddace|Robin Cruddace]]. Knaak made up a new member of the famous Windrunner family just for Rhonin to hook up with. They have half-elf kids who are blessed by dragons despite the fact they've done nothing to earn it (the player characters have done more, but they don't get anything like that; just a few trinkets that will be rendered obsolete by the next expansion), not to mention that those half-elf kids are one of the very rare examples of human-elf hybrids in WoW (the other is Arator the Redeemer, son of legendary characters all the way back in Warcraft 2 - human paladin Turalyon and elven general Alleria). Even the name Rhonin is just the title "Rōnin" (referring to a Samurai with no master during Japan's feudal period) with a few changes to anglicize the name (and, of course, the character doesn't even look Japanese). He gets sent back in time to partake in the first fight against the Burning Legion for no other reason than Knaak wanted Rhonin to be there. He does practically nothing in the game, yet everyone says he's a great hero; even then, he didn't do half the things they praise him for.
**Sylvanas Windrunner from [[World of Warcraft]] (The trend is now a bullet train into Edgytown): Started out as a Fantasy counterpart for Sarah Kerrigan, she's been turning into Fantasy Hitler/Mengele (or rather, was from the beginning). Originally a High Elf ranger in Warcraft III who is killed and turned into a Banshee by Arthas. She sets up the Undercity as a fortress/Horde-run concentration camp for Alliance captives, and has free reign of atrocities ranging from slavery to genocide. Her Royal Apothecary kidnapped innocents to experiment upon under her watch, torturing them for fun and science. While this upset some players, it's not a guarantee of Mary Sue'dom, but the problem becomes obvious as the plot advances. She was already under suspicion before the Wrathgate Incident (she knew about the plague, but not that it would be used on the Horde too), invaded Gilneas, nuked Southshore, waged a torture-filled genocidal campaign on the Humans, manipulated the Horde (and only joined them for selfish gain), built a Cult of Personality around herself, employed the Val'kyr (which even the Death Knights called her out on), resurrected those who she killed against their will despite not liking when it happened to her, shot and killed Liam Greymane then taunted his father Genn about it, attempted to steal the Scythe of Elune to enslave the Worgen to expand her personal army and made a deal with the devil to get the Val'kyr in the first place. The closest she got to any kind of punishment was Lor'thermar threatening to kill her if she raised the Horde's dead as Forsaken, stating he'd leave her to the Alliance if she tried it on their dead and calling her out on several of her actions in Mists of Pandaria - rather weaksauce given the almighty kicking they were giving Garrosh throughout that expansion pack, making him out to be evil incarnate. In Legion, after retreating from the Broken Shore, the crowning moment of Mary Suedom occurs when she ends up being named the next Warchief of the Horde with Vol'jin's dying words, followed by her abandoning the fight against the Burning Legion for a way to cheat death, and everyone in the Horde is okay with this. In the next expansion, the Horde forced the Night Elves out of Kalimdor in the War of Thorns, with Sylvanas pulling an Arthas by forcing the dying commander to watch her burn Teldrassil, an action worse than Garrosh's Bombing of Theramore because Theramore was a military target while the Night Elves had surrendered and Teldrassil was inhabited only by non-combatants. The writers give her plot armor by having "never forsake honor" Saurfang save her life by dealing a dishonorable blow to her opponent. As Sylvanas' atrocities grow barely anyone from the Horde turns against her, and writers pull new powers out of their asses for her culminating in her one-shotting Saurfang and soloing Lich King Bolvar and a horde of undead. The Mary Sue reason on top of all this? She never suffers any ''(literally, ANY)'' setback except Greymane ruining her Val'kyr agenda. All her atrocities and horrors are ignored or turned into heroism, and what's worse, she automatically pulls out the next phase of her agenda out of her ass like some Pentagon's high command after snorting a line of coke each. Her Forsaken, despite horrendous losses and ban on raising unwilling dead, somehow destroys everything with a shred of goodness around her...only for her to get raised to Warchief status like some spoiled prepubescent princess. This issue is compounded by the fact that Sylvanas has a very vocal fanbase and she's the Creator's Pet of at least three of Warcraft's dev team, lead quest writer David Kosak, director Steve Danuser and developer Travis Day (who once insisted [[Skub|she's not evil and just wants to protect the Horde]]). Even with the Shadowlands expansion having Sylvanas as a major villain helping the BBEG, they pull back by shoehorning in a "split soul" plot device to pave the way for her redemption.
**Thrall, the (in)famous Orc Warchief from ''[[Warcraft]]''. Started out cool in WC3 as an Orc orphan raised in a human internment camp who escaped with help from a friend, he led the Orcs because he was the former Warchief's son and a powerful but not story-breaking shaman. By having his forces fight alongside the trolls and Tauren and save them from their enemies he made allies. Though he fucked up by sending Grommash to collect resources from Ashenvale (antagonizing the Night Elves, giving the demons an opportunity to corrupt the Orcs and leading to the death of a demigod who would've been a great help against the Burning Legion), with a lot of help from some allies and another demi-god he sets things right and they kick the Burning Legion's demonic asses off of Azeroth. He still holds the line against threats and tries to make peace, but he's a bit too forgiving of trouble-makers in the Horde (see Sylvanas above and Garrosh below). In the Cataclysm expansion for World of Warcramps, he became Azeroth's premiere shaman and leader of half the world while appointing the <s>[[Skub|VERY CONTROVERSIAL]]</s> <s>balls to the wall violent and universally hated</s> patriotic warmonger Garrosh Hellscream as Warchief of the Horde; despite the protests of several others ''including Garrosh himself'' (who was uncertain he could handle the responsibility of such a role at the time). Takes over as Aspect of Earth from a borderline demigod, and even deals a crippling blow to him when he's empowered by the Old Gods. Even people that were fans of Thrall during Warcraft III have started to get sick of him.
*** The writers appear to have realized what kind of monster they unleashed in Cataclysm and every expansion since has given him a kicking in some way. In Mists of Pandaria Garrosh kicks his ass just before his final fight with the players. In Warlords of Draenor he gets relegated to the sidelines and has [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHwiEbXqh3k another fight with Garrosh], which features a memetastic sequence in which Garrosh pummels his dumb ass while listing his failures. He wins the fight only by cheating and using his shaman powers, and Legion (the expansion) reveals the Elemental Spirits have nerfed him for his blatant haxxing. Even when he begins getting his powers back, you only see that happen if you're a shaman, and he ends up becoming your bitch. Even his big fancy Doomhammer gets misplaced so it can become an Artifact weapon for Enhancement shamans.

*Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" had the most Mary Sues before the phrase existed. In fact her garbage is old enough that the term Mary Sue could be replaced by the name of any one of her characters and it wouldn't change the meaning at all. John Galt<ref>"Eventually, the question you ask stops being 'Who is John Galt?' and becomes 'When will John Galt shut up?'", to quote one common criticism of Galt's famous 56 page speech.</ref>, Dagny Taggart and most of the cast, which figures given her literature's reputation for being barely-disguised political sermon. Galt frequently has the narrative grind to a halt in order to focus on his inane views, somehow single-handedly grinds the economy to a halt by founding a libertarian utopia where no "communists" can hold him or other similar geniuses back, and is shilled as the only sane man after the rest of the world becomes a dystopic hellhole without said "genius". Then there's the primary female character, a wannabe railroad tycoon trying to get a new train line built despite the fact that "evil socialists" can't keep them running without crashing every few hours because of mean ol' unions and regulations oppressing the poor upper class. Said woman somehow manages to bed Hank Rearden, local inventor of a metal alloy supposedly even stronger than steel called Rearden Metal. Yes, just drips with creativity, don't it? It's telling that the Bioshock series, based off her work, is far better received and a more realistic depiction, generally due to taking the prospect of a single man basically playing God to its logical conclusion (I.E. another dystopia but now with blackjack and hookers).
**Nearly all of her works have blatant Mary Sues in them. Best not to bother with a full list because her tree wasting dysentery would take up over half the page. It explains a lot about her psyche that her ideal man was a serial murderer who kidnapped, raped and dismembered young girls.

==Mary Sue Races==
While not every member of a race is a Mary Sue, [[Chakat|with one or two exceptions]], sometimes whole races are considered Mary Sues because they have huge amounts of plot armor and are idealized beyond reason. They were put here as the Mary Sue list was originally conceived for characters. Also, please list them in alphabetical order.

* Although some might find this as [[Skub|arguable]], the characteristics describing the Asari race in [[Bioware|Mass Effect]] are blatantly Mary-Sue. Although not every Asari is a Mary Sue (though some are), when it comes to the general race as a whole, oh boy does their 'Sueness' reach Chakat levels. Examples on what makes them a Mary Sue includes having the second longest lifespan behind the Krogan (over 1000 years, plus they lack the Krogan's violent nature which can easily waste their long lifespans), all of them are biotic users, every one in the game is intelligent, founders of the council, considered sexy by many other species despite being a monogendered species (even Salarians, who lack a sex drive and mate out of necessity, are shown to be attracted to them), and are deliberately oversexualised by the developers so they can be [[Rule 34|Rule 34'ed to death]]. Their race as a whole is portrayed as peace-loving hippies, the best diplomats, the most respected species in the galaxy as well as having a serious case of "Holier/Morally Superior then thou" attitude. Their ship the "Destiny Ascension" is the largest and most powerful ship in the Citadel fleet and their ships perversely resemble a lady's privates because you know they all look like "wominz". Thessia, their homeworld, is regarded as the "jewel" of the galaxy (instead of the fucking Citadel) as well as having the largest amount of Eezo which partially explains how their entire race is biotics. Any asari can 'Read' most people's minds and inner-thoughts with near complete-accuracy, though only if that person agrees to it (they can literally mindfuck you). Furthermore with their way of reproduction, since they are monogendered (Meaning they're all female) a lot of newcomers in Mass Effect start to scratch their heads on how they manage to get each other pregnant without any physical evidence of having a dick (Although one of the hypothesis is that they might actually screw around with the local fauna AKA Bestiality). However the fluff states this as Parthenogenesis, for those that don't know what it is, think of them as chickens....which is actually hilarious if you seriously put the comparison in context. Another odd thing about their reproduction is that somehow the Asari have the capability of getting pregnant from just about '''''Anyone'''''. [[Chakat|Do those traits sound fucking familiar to you?]] So all in all, not only are they a holy (unholy?) fusion of a smurf, elf and a monster girl, but they also commit in sweaty Lesbian/Bestiality/Xenoality orgies with almost everyone, turning the Asari race into nothing more then a giant Whorehouse for Aliens and Humans to fap in a hundred dozen ways and yet they are still ''okay'' with that....<s>Slaneesh approve of this!</s> {{BLAM|'''''BLAM! BLAM! DOUBLE HERESY!'''''}} But to be fair, at least Asari aren't [[Avatar|furries]] or physical [[Chakat|hermaphrodites]].
** Amusingly enough, the third game reveals that the only reason Asari are so much more advanced than the other races is because the Protheans (the super-advanced precursor race) were deliberately manipulating them and sneaking tech to them in their ancient history in order to give them a boost (such as genetically engineering them to be a race of skilled biotics and [[STC|leaving instruction manuals on how to create all sorts of advanced technology and deal with the other races in their "beacons"]]). The hope was that if they were given enough a headstart, the Asari would be able to unite and lead the other races to victory against the Reapers (in other words, they were deliberately ''trying'' to make the Asari Mary Sues in order to give the next cycle an advantage over the Reapers). Instead the Asari government kept that knowledge to themselves and used it to make their race the most powerful in the galaxy. When the Reapers showed up, the Asari leadership buried their heads in the sand on their homeworld like the smurf elf pussies they are, leaving the other races to fend for themselves, then promptly got their asses kicked by the Reapers (Which they probably deserved it for being such [[Eldar|self-righteous and selfish cockbags]]). Perhaps one of the few instances of a Mary Sue being both invoked and subverted. And then humanity steps up and saves the day, because [[Humanity Fuck Yeah|of course we do]].

*[[Angry Marines]]. When was the last time YOU heard of an Angry Marine LOSING? Thought no-{{BLAM}}
{{BLAM|+The current author has been executed by the Inquisition to prevent the total destruction of the Imperium of Man by Angry Marines. Thank you and have a nice day.+}}

* The Draka, once human, then Posthuman slaver empire from the Domination Series by S.M Stirling, collapsing the "Bullying, slaving, torture-happy, heartless Karma Houdini asshole who is the channelized catharsis of the author rather than genuine art." shtick into a black hole the size of the galaxy. South African British colony turns into a nation of literal "[[Drow]] in human skin" when due to (mis)fortune, every losing side from worldwide wars against tyranny gets exiled to Drakia, the British colony named after Francis Drake. Turning chattel slavery into a race-wide, airtight regulated franchise in the case of blacks, they exploit entire Africa by taking the colonies belonging to the enemies of British people. Unifying in a Spartan way of life, completely shedding any morality in the case of slave control, eventually Draka Dominion declares independence from the British Crown, and turns entire Africa into a mega plantation with industrial giants enticed by obscene gold&diamond handouts exploited from Africa. The Draka then adopt Nietzschean ideals, and declare every non-Draka a slave, or a potential slave. Somehow the First World War happens anyway despite massive divergences, and Draka overrun the dying Ottoman Empire, local Turks, after a brief "enserfment" finding great joy in new and better slave soldier living standards ([[/pol/|being able to rape young white captive Finnish boys seems a source of joy for a moustached swarthy Turk]] [[FAIL|whose name and appearance IRL was one of the last good politicians in Turkey]].). When the second World War starts ([[Wat|with a blond and one-eyed Hitler]]) the Draka start turning white people into slaves starting from Italy with approval of Hitler and employ black slave soldiers who are given ample living standards and items with free rape of anyone that is captured.
** This (Post-World War 2) is where the story turns from an [[Edgy]] /pol/-fanfic to pants-on-head retarded FAPfic. Though the series display a very detailed alternate history AND technological evolution (steamer cars phased out far later than combustion engine driven ones due to efficiency and lack of fuel corrosive-resistant metal research), the Draka's endless S&M laden plantation slave bitch fantasy hits overdrive and they simultaneously conquer Russia, Europe minus Britain, and the entirety of CHINA with black soldiers and their white masters that were, mind you, from an Africa that wasn't overpopulated but ecologically protected. They do not lose one, ONE battle while rampaging and raping and enslaving. Their methods are extremely savage: impalement and rape are regular actions at every resistance, and the black soldiers can take out any psychosis forming from mass atrocities on other slaves back home, every capture tortured until completely broken before being enslaved. Their research facilities have *zero* ethics, using up millions of humans in torturous experiments to develop fantastic drugs, bioweapons and medications since, well, their citizens are drilled from age 2 to 18 with a Nietzsche-on-crack ideology to circumvent a sudden case of conscience to heart. Eventually they change the Draka Citizen DNA to that of an immortal superhuman species, destroy the rest of non-Draka armies with [[/pol/|weaponized AIDS]] and make all slaves into docile abhumans and take over the rest of the world, rape all the women and men, destroy every monument and cultural heritage not belonging to them, turn the USA into a hunting reserve to hunt humans like animals (and eat them sometimes- AND make paintings, artworks and monuments ''celebrating'' the rape and slavery of non-Draka of all ethnicities). Then the Draka expand into alternate universes, infiltrating our world and its parallel versions and start taking them over as well and enjoying immortal, eternal exploitation of everyone everywhere forever. What the entire US and UK plus the rest of Asia, Japan, Southeast Asia does is to create an Alliance that walks on eggshells and fucks up every espionage action against the Draka, loses every battle and ends up escaping to Alpha Centauri. S.M Stirling eventually writes a sequel where an alternate Earth has the [[Humanity's_Last_Stand|human Alliance win for a change]], but the damage is already done. We are graced with the endless plantation BDSM fetish fantasy of bisexual, blonde, white, transhuman, constantly horny blue-eyed men and women fucking their farm slaves of either gender and make them work their asses off after breaking them in of every little inch of their personalities. A particularly nasty lesbian Draka is Stirling's Creator Pet: she manages to capture the sister of an American soldier who killed her lover and makes her a slave. She tortures her with a mental chip for years to destroy her brain, forcing her to bear her lover's clone children, and rapes her mentally, and eventually, physically. And her side wins the war, the girl escapes an old ruined wreck into space(albeit back to her brother), and our bitch spends her long, long life to torture and kill surviving Alliance holdouts for fun, happily raping, killing and torturing ever after. Seriously, even Kosak had more of a shred of decency, Stirling. The Draka's only saving grace is that every Draka must devote several hours of their time every day to be on top physical condition by ''law'' and always earn their place, as well as senseless slave abuse is seen as a character sickness.
*** And then, since only another suevilization can stop them at this point, they run into The Culture. The End. (well, we can dream, right?)
**** [[Rape|Or the Xeelee]].
***** Especially the Xeelee. We'd even settle for the Qax.

* The [[Drow]] from [[Drowtales]]. Their Mary Sue factor isn't even funny. Shaped by several inputs from several authors, their Drow are the best example of how too many cooks spoil the broth as well as the main author's high school misanthrophy hitting overdrive. The Drowtales' Drow are practically immortal, have regenerating limbs, never menstruate, possess metals that are impenetrable to other sentient beings and virtually twice as big and a thousand times as powerful as other races to the point of a few drow kids on an adventure can butcher a city with innocents to save their friend who was about to be killed for its blood, since humans, hunted and enslaved for centuries, are desperate to the point of killing elves for their blood just to have an edge. Their houses in underworld have all the modern technology and some futuristic things to boot complete with giant walkers and submarines, modern machinery, PARTICLE RIFLES and magitech street lights, but somehow they need human and other races as slaves and this need is shown as just and necessary right at the beginning with the "good" faction's "surface raiders" murdering an entire village and taking women and children to slave markets because the poor widdle drow need slaves and "[[Wat|It's just their unique morality]]". And the way the webcomic shows them as tragic beings is the cherry on top: I didn't know it was so tragic and sad when the humans counterattack to save their raided relatives from your homes, locked in to be sold as slaves.

* ALL [[Chakat|Chakats!]] The entire fucking race are distilled and purified Mary Sues, sometimes warping stories they are barely even mentioned in. Not just [[monstergirls|feline-centaur]] [[/d/|dick-girls]](Sick Fucks), they're also each master psionicists with faster-than-light mind-reading, able to cure deep neurotic complexes with a good deep dickin', strongest and most stable form of 'Taurs', considered as the most "beautiful thing in the universe" despite looking exactly like lions with the fact that they have dicks, morally perfect to the extreme, nobody technically hates them, their breast milk can turn the most feeble human into mini-Arnold Schwarzeneggers and every non-Chakats seem to have a unnatural and unhealthy lifestyle on trying to "Do it" with them, despite the fact that there are hundreds of ''other'' Catgirls outside of this furfag heresy, that are more attractive, cuter and prettier then them with the added benefit that they are actually female, [[HERESY|not hermaphrodite abominations]].

* [[Elf|Elves]] are often portrayed this way in fiction (Look above at Drowtales), though there are exceptions and it's becoming rarer for elves to be portrayed as Mary Sues. A lot of their sueness comes from how idealized they are. They're always beautiful, sometimes even without making an effort, either immortal or have very long lifespans and can only die from violence. They're often considered to have the moral high ground yet also be condescending to the younger races, but the elves contempt kept getting justified in some stories. Some have the natural ability to make anything beautiful from even the most base materials, naturally have great magical ability, and are often favored by their gods. However, there are evil elves in fiction and some elves who are morally good without being Mary Sues. Then there are curvy anime rapebait elves (often dark elves) who get high on male smells and secretions and turn into thicc fuckdolls taking massive amounts of dicking.
** This depiction usually comes from elves as shown in The Lord of the Rings, which is coincidental as it was the end of the Third age and all the bad elves had long since died off, leaving only the wise and good-hearted ones (like Galadriel). A read of The Silmarillion (the heroic First age where elves and magic were strong forces in the world and loads of [[Awesome]] shit happened) will prove quite pointedly that elves in this setting could be just as flawed, stubborn and downright immoral as humans could. Fëanor for instance. And how. He may have been gifted and intelligent even by the standards of elves, but he was also an obnoxious, arrogant kinslayer with a creepy attraction to his niece's golden hair, and he didn't give two shits about anybody else's concept of morality up to the Maiar themselves, he just insisted single-mindedly on getting his way until it got him pile-drivered to death by balrogs.
** Elves from Eragon are probably the worst example of Mary Sue elves yet. Elves from Eragon move so fast that humans are incapable of tracking their movements, stronger than humans to the point "even the weakest (elf) can easily overpower (a human)" (actual book quote), anything they make even from the most base materials is beautiful and they can run over a hundred miles an hour plus maintain that pace for hours on end. Character wise they're all atheists and vegetarians who are treated as morally and spiritually correct in all regards and there are just one or two evil elves in the story or the background lore. They can destroy entire human armies in minutes yet are somehow on the losing end of a war and have to hide in a forest on the edge of the map, are one of only two races on the planet capable of riding dragons, the other being humans (who literally turn into elves when they start riding the dragon plus elves were the first), are naturally connected to magic to such a level that an elven child can surpass an adult human who has spent their entire life studying magic and, apparently, were the second race in existence, only predated by dragons.

*[[Doctor Who|Whoverse Humanity]] takes this up to a 100 million in this case. Depending on the timeline, Humanity not only manage to become the dominant ruler of the multi-galaxy not once, but [[What|'''Five Fucking Times!''']] Without any indication on how they manage to conquer the Galaxy, thriving with hostile Aliens that could LOLStomp the Necrons, Eldar, Orks, Tau, Tyranid, Chaos in all it's forms and the Imperium ''combined''. Furthermore not only are they one of the [[Imperium of Man|most numerous species in the Universe,]] but also one of the most adaptable and longest lasting race, as seen when they are one of the [[Grimdark|few species still alive near the end of the fucking Universe.]] To give you an idea on how fucking ludicrous Humanity got within Doctor Who, in just 500 years from present day, Humanity was already a major force in the Galaxy ([[Star Trek|Compare this to most Sci-Fi timelines]] [[Bioware|where Humanity either just started to explore their surroundings]] [[Halo|or already establish a small and insignificant area]]), as well as having weapons that could make [[Strike Legion]] seem useless in comparison, and when you take note on how short the timeline distance is between the present day and the end of the Universe, it just makes you say to yourself....the Fuck? Compare this to say [[Star Wars]] in which they have the excuse of not knowing how long Humanity has been space traveling, or [[WH40K]] where the thousands of years gap of slow progress before the Warp Drive was invented seem much more plausible then this absurd scenario. You know Humanity is a Mary Sue when even the near-death of the Universe can't kill them off....until a certain Dues Ex Machina appeared. To be fair, they only gain their Sueness momentum when a certain Time Lord keep on foiling the plans of countless Aliens attempting to conquer and crush humanity in various stages in time; either that or because the Doctor has a unusually unhealthy Humanophile fetish. They are probably one of the few examples of a "Accidental Mary Sue", in which the Doctor, with his fancy Time gizmos and intellect, unintentionally guided Humanity to such power levels by either saving their asses from certain doom or altering the timeline so they won't fuck up, due to his love of Humans. Granted Whoverse Humanity is definitely far from morally perfect (A substantial amount of Whoverse villains are Humans and the multiple Human Empires itself are morally questionable at best. The Timelords themselves are hardly better than the Daleks at times.), the main point of contention is how influentially powerful they are for such a young race while at the same time, disregarding other more ancient and more powerful races (Silurian, Cybermen, Sontarian, Ice Warriors, etc) that should be the one having more galactic screen time and hegemony then them.
**In this case, Whoverse humanity's Mary Sueness can't really be blamed on any one author. It's mostly the result of sheer age causing increasingly severe continuity snarls and the unwillingness of newer writers to change or retcon forty year old fluff.

* Dwarves as seen in the Artemis Fowl series. While virtually all dwarven exploits described are performed by one Mulch Diggums, most of his Mary Sueness is excused as "dwarven racial talents." His saliva can harden into a glowing substance that's strong enough to resist high speed impacts, he can fart hurricanes and shit cannonballs, he can dig a self sealing tunnel through any earth-like substance as fast as a man can run, drink water with his pores, use said pores like suction cups if he's thirsty, hear better than a stethoscope, and has tremorsense to at least a hundred feet. Dwarves are also described as having access to the fairy magic (Common uses include instant healing, invisibility, and mid-grade mind control), but Mulch gave that up to steal things instead. This despite no readily apparent level adjustment, nor any mention of useful powers before those same powers are necessary, puts this race quite firmly in this category.

* LeShay are a race that appeared as a monster in the D&D 3th edition book [[Epic Level Handbook]] and have been completely forgotten about since then like most of what was in that book. They are described as being to elves what elves are to humans only more so. That sentence alone should immediately set off red flags. LeShay are extremely powerful immortals resembling albino elves who are survivors from a civilization that was erased from history. Whoever it was that came up with this race (some of us blame Raymond Feist, for the Valheru) may even have intended for them to be ''anti''-Sues, to foil the elves. As such the concept is defensible, but they probably would have ended up as Mary Sues if any bad writers had gotten a hold of them. Bad writers like Feist.

* The Mandalorians in the Star Wars Expanded Universe, depending on who's writing them. While good under the correct writers, under some of the bad ones (coughcoughKarenTravisscoughcough), they compete with badly written expanded universe Jedi and Sith for the position of Star Wars' Ultrasmurfs. In the pre-Disney expanded universe, ALL Mandos are elite warrior mercenaries, skilled enough to take out heavily armed enemies with their bare hands and usually packing enough firepower to level a building. They're so badass, in fact, that they're known to hunt Jedi for fucking sport because they're the only thing that'll give them a real challenge. Experienced Jedi hunters can be good enough to fight them head on despite all their Force powers and saber swinging because they have the right gear and experience to counter it. Bear in mind that Mandos do not use the Force in any way. Karen Traviss also writes them with the Mary Sue trait of always being right and people agreeing with them for things they call the Jedi out for that they didn't even do, like creating the clone army (one Jedi who wasn't acting on orders from the council requested that, under the manipulations of Palpatine, and it was him and the Senate who ordered the clones to fight), and generally makes them out to be the pinnacle of civilization despite being warmongers with a history of allying with the Sith and trying to conquer the galaxy themselves. One of the best things to come out of Disney buying Star Wars was the fact that the people in charge of the new canon scrapped pretty much all of Traviss' lore, whereupon she flounced off to go ruin the Halo EU and they got down to creating a more three-dimensional and complex society.
** The most famous Mandalorian, Boba Fett, generally avoids becoming this trope and is just a plain badass (as a bonus he rarely if ever engages in the dick-stroking egomania of Traviss's Mandies), but under bad writers his badassitude can push into this. His father Jango Fett follows this same idea; in fact his origin story partly involves his old merc group of Mandalorians getting slaughtered by a group of Jedi in a moment that reads sort of like "fuck you Karen Traviss". Sure, Jango kills six Jedi with his bare hands in that massacre, but the Jedi he killed were not decades old masters and he is (as an individual) supposed to be that good. The fact that he managed that made Palpatine choose him as the Clone Army template donor.
** And now we have the Mandalorian With No Name (until they ruined that joke by giving him one), who has some Sueish traits; he's an excellent bounty hunter and a skilled gunfighter who rarely loses a duel, he's good enough at diplomacy to negotiate with ''Tusken Raiders'', he has a near-full suit of rare and indestructible beskar armour, and pretty much everyone he meets takes a liking to him, even his enemies. That said, he also has a number of flaws: he was raised in an extremist splinter faction that is to normal Mando society what the [[Cult of the Redemption]] are to regular believers in the [[Imperial Creed]], doesn't always think through the consequences of his actions, is constantly hustling for jobs just to scrape by, and occasionally makes some serious mistakes. He also tends to be at a disadvantage in straight-up fights and has to rely on stealth, misdirection, and ambush tactics, rather than soloing entire stormtrooper platoons in the open with a dull knife like Traviss would undoubtedly have had him doing. He is also most definately '''not''' shown to be a match for Jedi, when got into a scuffle with Ahsoka Tano he lost very badly and only survived by letting her know he actually just needed her help with something, and when Luke Skywalker showed up at the end of the season he wasted a platoon of [[Terminator| Dark Troopers]] while our hero could barely handle one. All in all, he's pretty much the complete opposite of a Traviss Mando, and that is a good thing.

* [[Avatar|All Na'vi]], the blue-skinned eco-humping gobshites.
** Or are they? Without excessive human help (one of them warned the entire planet of what the space humans were capable of) they would have gone the way of countless human indigenous peoples...

* Smurfs. They're portrayed as a peace-loving, quasi-communist society who always come out on top in their primary conflict with an evil wizard family and are idealized to the point of ridiculousness. They're also friends with animals and never have to worry about being eaten even though they're the size of large mice. [[Skub|Then ''again'']], most of the other conflicts they encounter are usually due to one or more of their clan fucking something up in accordance with their [[Derp|singular personality trait]], and overall they seem collectively naive about things to the point of gullibility. Said approach is likely designed to promote the usual aesop of teamwork and the importance of family, so it could be far worse.

* [[Twilight|Vampires in a certain book series]]. Even though they were as gay as fuck (which damaged the reputation of actual vampires).
** [[Vampire]]s in general started falling in modern years due to their weaknesses being forgotten or ignored by untalented authors. They have often been portrayed by such writers as immortal monsters that are top-tier magic users, skilled at all martial arts and forms of killing, master scholars with libraries that would put Alexandria to shame, incredibly attractive and charismatic, and living in huge castles while commanding other monsters like they were their servants or slaves, making them the Elves of the monster world by that definition. Initially in novels like Bram Stoker's Dracula, vampires had notable weaknesses including regularly drinking the blood of many human victims to stay young and powerful, but later writers dropped this in favor of making vampires straight up immortal. Seriously, some writers even give them plot armor to get past their weaknesses of holy objects, divine power or sunlight (though the former usually depends on the author's attitude towards religion).
** [[Tremere|Clan Tremere]] (a.k.a. "Tremary Sues") from the ''[[Vampire: The Masquerade]]'' [[RPG|ttRPG game]] are an entire clan of Mary Sues as they were [[Mark Rein·Hagen|the author]]'s pet mages from his previous ''[[Ars Magica]]'' game. Tremary Sues enjoy the narrative absurdity of holding a near-monopoly on vampiric thaumaturgy, despite the fact that older vampiric clans had millennia to perfect thaumaturgy (and many other arts that can blow the Tremere out of the water) before the first Tremere was ever born.
** Probably one of the best exceptions of this is Count Orlock from the classic silent film ''Nosferatu''. Whereas nowadays vampires get the treatment of being oh-so-sexy, suave, charismatic, pitiable creatures whose lives suck despite being immortal, undead bloodsuckers, Orlok is just a hideous predatory monster out to drink blood. No charisma, no suave, nothing to pity, nothing to feel empathy for. In short, straight-ahead horror vampires done completely right.
** By contrast, the vampires of the House of Night series by mother and daughter team P. C. and Kristen Cast are far worse examples than even Twilight's bastardization. To clarify, vampires worship the goddess Nyx who is the only real goddess, are selected by a tracker when they are a human teen, are the poor, oppressed minorities of the world even though literally almost every famous person in human history was a vampire, will become utterly handsome and beautiful unless they reject the Change in which case they are afforded no sympathy as they die due to events outside their control, every negative stereotype is because of stupid humans, they can never do anything bad... in short, [[Fail|vampires done so badly that Twilight is more believable as good vampire literature]]. Seriously.
** Higher Vampires from [[The_Witcher|Witcher]] are as sueish as they get around here. Beside the point of being intellectually and spiritually superior to pretty much anybody (and we have immortal elves here), and relatively young ones fast and agile enough to go toe-to-toe with the best witchers that exist, they have NO weaknesses. Crosses, godly idols, other divine aspects? Nada. Drinking blood to live? Not even close, you can grab a <s>human</s>beer with some boys, but there's no neeed for it. Sunlight? Try again. Silver? NO. They are as much suspectible to silver like, say, humans are suspectible to paper swords. Cue in their "racial" power to become stronger and faster the older they get, shapeshifting, mistyfying (as in turning to mist) and unique superpowers, refined throught their lifetime, ranging from coming in handy once in a while better alchemy to [[wat|mind controlling entire kingdom's worth of lesser vampires as on-wish army]], with even that just being stated to be a "unique" power, not a really "powerful" one. The worst is when you realize they are not even "magical beings" by any degree, just a [[Urien_Rakarth|vaguely human-shaped collective of individual living cells just so happened to work together for the time being]], granting them mind-blowing regeneration - nothing, NOTHING, can kill higher vampire but another higher vampire, even if regenerating from a melted puddle of blood would take some decades, they will return. One would start to wonder why they did not steamroll through entire continent and make it their own, to stop hiding and openly search for a way to return to their home world - as almost all higher vampires see themselves superior to other races, and majority would not bat an eye for this [[/pol/|final solution]] - but this just adds to their sueness-good-for-the-sake-of-plot aspect.

* [[Doobies]] describe themselves this way. Aside from their crazed fans, it is obvious to everyone else that they aren't.

* Saiyans from Dragonball are practically born more powerful than any human could ever be, get exceptionally stronger every time they almost die (the words that are actually used to describe it), can literally become strong enough to eclipse actual gods with little effort and have more asspulls and deus ex machinas than any other race on this list. A twenty-three-year-old Saiyan can destroy an entire place with a single movement in the anime, and the manga implies that a Saiyan can do it with a finger before the first manga even concludes.

*The Forerunners from Halo easily fit the bill of being Mary Sues. For one, the Forerunners were created by actual no holds barred Gods who could rewrite time and space with little to no effort. These Gods, known as the Precursors (real original), thought the Forerunners were such hot shit that they decided to make them the new gods of the universe before they moved onto the next one, despite the Forerunners having achieved nothing of note yet. But then the gods changed their minds and decided to make humanity the new gods of the universe. The Forerunners responded by turning on their guns and literally murdering actual gods with no effort. The remaining gods ran off in a panic and turned to dust, later degenerating into the Flood. Then the Forerunners pulled a bunch of crazy shit like building ships that could ROFLstomp everything in Warhammer with minimal effort and creating an AI so advanced it could simulate entire universes in microseconds. Then they somehow got wiped out by the Flood.
**The Forerunner's main enemy, the Flood, are similarly sueish, if not more so. While it is dubious if you can call the Flood a race or a single organism, it is undoubtedly completely OP, to the point of it being ridiculous. For one, they are quite literally the degenerate (ergo inferior) offspring of the Precursors, but they are somehow better than them in every way. They can infect time and space just by existing for long enough, are completely unbeatable, incurable, and can literally infect all life in the universe, including purely mechanical technology somehow, despite that not being how biology works. They are also capable of convincing AI that was programmed with the simple purpose of protecting all life from being infected by the Flood to join them by simply talking to them, can convince an entire group of human scientists to kill themselves just by saying a single sentence, and can never be defeated as 'they will always return'.

*[[All Tomorrows|The Qu]] from All Tomorrows are an egregious example of “Tell not Show” in this list, as they overpower the future humanity, [[what|even though they have technology capable of destroying star systems and many other things that could be beyond our imagination.]] It is never explained how they managed to defeat the Star People, nor why they would turn them into the fucked up abominations for the rest of the story. Well, they ''kind of'' say their philosophy is one about being gods, that other lifeforms are nothing but toys to play with, and humanity was unfortunately in their path. So for millions years, they turn most humans into twisted mockeries of their former selves, sometimes becoming literal toilets for the bloody things! So despite being an all-powerful race capable of modifying life to remove their sentience, they had the enlightened intelligence to create a race that [[/d/|communicates by literally shitting on each other.]]
**Can somewhat be considered averted in the end when it is said that they were defeated by a union of galaxies who had enough of their shit. This is handwaved even more poorly, with little explanation to how it happened or if the Qu were truly rendered extinct. For most of the book, [[rage|they get away with their literal crimes against humanity, and it’s implied that they’ve done it to more species than just us.]]

== Mary Suetopias ==

As mentioned in the main article, there are some cases of entire civilizations getting the "Mary Sue" label with some justice. Here are a few.

* The Draka, before they become a species, are usually held to be a fairly strong example of a Villian Suetopia. See above in Mary Sue Races for more.
* Anarchist habitats in [[Eclipse Phase]]. To quote TVTropes, they "are apparently flawless societies where robots and nanofabricators provide for everyone, crime is virtually non-existent due to surveillance sensors everywhere and well-armed populaces, and there's no shortage of spare bodies like there is in the Transitional Economies."
* Aldis, from [[Blue Rose]], has this accusation thrown at it, with some justification.
* The various civilizations of Ayn Rand's science fiction are either Mary Suetopias or Villain Suetopias. No inbetween.

* [[Ultramar]]. Need more be said?


There are some "special cases" (parodies, twists, and deconstructions), that are worth mentioning:

* Ursula K. LeGuin's "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" is... odd. Go read it if you want more, because it's ''very'' short. 
* Rapture and Columbia from the Bioshock series are "functionalist" Suetopias: Because the games are about killing lots and lots of dudes, you need to have those dudes be crazy or assholes or both. Rapture could actually be interpreted as a criticism of Ayn Rand's Suetopias by showing how they will go wrong in a less ideal world.
* The original "Utopia" by Thomas More is interesting, in that it somewhat parodies the concept before it existed. To provide two examples, "Utopia" is a pun on ''eutopia''-"good place", and ''outopia''-"no place", and the frame story narrator's name translates as "Peddler of Nonsense". Yes, this means that the man who literally coined the term Utopia immediately considered it wishful fantasy.
* Mordent, from [[Ravenloft]], has a somewhat interesting twist. Its Darklord focuses more on Ghosts than on the living, so the living aren't the focus of the horror, and as such, for Ravenloft, it's a relative Utopia ''for the living''. Once you die there, however...
* Kurt Vonnegut's "Harrison Bergeron" is widely interpreted as a parody of such works.
* The Federation of [[Star Trek]] seems like a Mary Suetopia on the surface. However because the show was initially focused on morality stories the "Insane Admiral" trope crops up every now and then, showing some leaks beneath the surface. In latter seasons of TNG and all Deep Space Nine those leaks become full blown cracks, with the Maquis and the consequences of the Dominion War. Captain Sisko even rants about this a few times during the show. Earth in Star Trek is practically a paradise compared to most other planets in the galaxy, and thus "It's easy to be a saint in paradise." With examples such as the Federation spy agency Section 31 engineering a virus to use on The Dominion's Founders (aka rulers) or Sisko himself collaborating with a former Cardassian spy/assassin to bring the Romulans into the war via a ''massive'' fraud.
** What some people forget is that the episodes from the perspective of the characters, take anywhere from hours to days and even longer during multi-episode storylines. Spending weeks to get the solution shown during the final ten minutes or exhausting all other options to take a random shot in the dark that solves the current problem. Usually without pulling it out of the writers collective asses or pressing the reset button.(Something that happened often enough on Voyager and Enterprise to an unrealistic degree that viewers started hating them.)
* Wakanda, from [[Marvel Comics]] wasn't this originally - it was just an African nation that avoided getting buttfucked during the Scramble for Africa and which had instituted a policy of sending its best and brightest abroad to learn at the most advanced foreign schools before returning to share what they learned with their people, thus keeping it well ahead of most other African nations and on par with the most civilized "first world" nations. They still had Vibranium as an ace up their sleeves, but they were more "America during the Atomic Energy race... if America had the world's only known supply of fissile material". It was subsequently retconned that the presence of Vibranium meant that Wakanda was centuries ahead of the world technologically and always had been. Different writers have applied differing levels of Sue-ishness to Wakanda on this basis, ranging from making them the typical "smug utopians" to presenting them as a technologically advanced nation but not perfect, having deep social and political problems like any other nation. The Black Panther movie especially interrogated the premise of this nation's existence by pointing out that they stood by while atrocities happened all over the world, including to other Black people, and they did nothing about it to protect their own hides. The short-lived "Ultimate Universe" took perhaps the biggest piss on the idea of Wakanda as the "Mary Suetopia" by replacing the "because Vibranium" background with "we reverse-engineered a crashed alien starship", and emphasizing that this didn't make them as powerful as they thought, as they ended up needing the Ultimates (Ultimate Marvel's Avengers) to save their asses when the aliens who lost that ship in the first place came knocking looking for their property.

* Alpha Complex, from [[Paranoia]]. Need more be said?


== Somewhat Special Cases of "Not Quite Sues" ==

There are a few situations where a character either (1) isn't really a Sue, even though the accusation gets pointed at them often, (2) is sufficiently clearly a parody or deconstruction that they don't count for the main list<ref>On the theory that both are technically attacks of Sue-style characters, which moves them into a strange twilight zone of classification.</ref>, or (3) aren't in any way Sues, but are needed to give some context to something above. This section is for these special cases. Note that '''characters who veer in or out of Suedom depending on the author or episode go on the main list, as do Sues who audiences actually like''' (such as Darkseid or Squirrel Girl).

* The Crimson King from Stephen King's Dark Tower series. He's talked up as a big threat, and his plan legitimately threatens the universe; but when confronted, he turns out be a paper tiger, whose chief power was getting so many people and monsters working on one page on his plan to destroy the world, and was otherwise actually rather mediocre compared to them. Given the heavy theme of '''disappointment''' in both the series as a whole and the last book of it in particular, this sorta worked on a meta level, but was very, well, disappointing. (For the main reason he's included here, see Darkseid above; the contrast between these two [[BBEG]]s gives you a good idea of why a paper tiger BBEG is felt to be a problem.)

* Griffith, from [[Berserk]], seems a Mary Sue on the surface: he leads the efforts to save Midland and defeat the Kushan invaders while everything goes his way and everyone praises him... but then you remember that he's also a member of the Godhand who's got reality-warping powers handed to him in a handbasket and uses them to manipulate everything and everyone around him to his advantage. Basically, Griffith hacked the game and then began playing on the lowest difficulty, while setting it to Ultra-Nightmare for everyone else. If anything, Griffith is all the common jokes people make about a Mary Sue deconstructed, showing how utterly awful and soulless such a person would actually be. On the other hand, one of his former Warband member, Rickert, saw through his bullshit and bitch slapped him for it even though he wasn't there when Griffith betrayed his comrade. So not everyone is falling for Griffith.
** That being said, these facts don't change the following: He is portrayed as a tactical genius, yet during all his battles he is using absolutely retarded tactics, but all of them still work, because his high-ranking enemies turn out to be just a bunch of bumbling idiots. Can't push "time manipulation" excuse on this, they are just stupid; He's lost only two times and didn't die the first time, because Zodd had a plan for him and the second time, because Guts didn't want to kill him; The lowest point in his life i.e. a year of torture in the end led him into becoming a member of Godhand and then getting resurrected as "Griffith, but cooler", read "even when he fails, he doesn't"; The only time he had a formidable foe after this, he beat him with a single blow, while everyone else could barely stand against him; The second time he faces same formidable foe, he just bullshits his way out of that fight and creates his promised kingdom out of it. It's like if Superman blew up Darkseid with one punch (that was not even his) and created Paradise planet from his corpse; Despite sacrificing men who sworn to protect him and raping Casca just to get back at Guts, he didn't have any moral downfal afterwards, his character hasn't changed any single bit and everyone, except his ex-buddies (if they wouldn't, that would be too stupid), adore him, even if they know what he's done; Also, Godhand treats him like a messiah and people consider him Flaming Falcon i.e. he is also a chosen one.

* Jonathan, from the Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode "Superstar", provides a pretty good case study of the in-universe Mary Sue.

*Joeseph Joestar, though he does have some sueish traits such as being a super-genius who can trick anyone and knows exactly what people are going to say before they say it, alongside having the appearance of a Greek god, is very much not a Sue when you actually get down to it. He is extremely flawed, to the point of being weaker than all of his allies in part two and part three, both physically and stand/hamon wise, is very obviously outclassed by the villains of both respective arcs (Dio being able to easily beat him without even touching him, and Kars being a literal god by the end) and does extremely scummy things, such as cheating on his wife with a Japanese woman, who's race he supposedly hates. His grandson, Jotaro Kujo, on the other hand...

*Momonga/Ainz Ool Gown from Overlord boarders on Mary-Sueish and is the protagonist of an [[Isekai]] work, but is also a decent deconstruction of Invincible Villain Sues at the same time. He is transported to a fantasy world as his [[Lich]] MMO avatar, along with his Guild Hall and all its NPCs, now alive. He's still a no-life (literally) Japanese salary man, but finds he has lost his humanity and feelings, all the better to pretend to be (and eventually become) the overlord his adoring minions expect. These expectations pressure him to conquer the world with his gamer skills, system knowledge and corporate experience, min-maxing his way to success whilst bullshitting people that he's an evil mastermind. He still has many advantages however in resources, magic and diplomacy (substituting sales pitches for evil monologues, surprisingly easy) compared to all other characters so far. This results in him single-handedly winning wars, having an Empire become a vassal state almost by accident, and annexing a whole town from a neighbouring kingdom to rule over (Word of god is that no other YGGDRASIL players will appear). Being by many definitions OP, the story's drama arises from him not having complete control and knowledge of his minions' actions.
** Though fanatically loyal, they are constantly guessing his true intentions to try and impress him, misinterpreting his commands, and in some cases outright deceiving him. Two such examples are Ainz's advisor Albedo plotting behind his back to kill other Supreme Beings that he wants alive and unharmed, and Demiurge harvesting human captives to make magical items for their use (Demiurge himself considers humans "animals" and refers to them as such, hence Ainz has never found out). Both are in part because of Ainz's actions, and in any case, he has ordered and done equally terrible things himself.
** While most of Ainz's female guardians lust after him, even this is deconstructed. Albedo's a [[succubus]], so lust is par the course, and full-force [[/a/|yandere]] for Ainz because he altered her code in YGGDRASIL to change her from " a slut" to "in love with Momonga" as a joke. Shalltear wants Ainz because he's a walking skeleton and she's a necrophile (she's not to Ainz' taste being a loli vampire; furthermore, she holds her absent YGGDRASIL creator in higher esteem than Ainz), while Aura keeps a lid on her crush (she's a flat-chested teenage elf and wary of jealous reprisals from Albedo and Shalltear). Ultimately, the fact that Ainz is a walking skeleton means he's unable to fulfil their desires or consummate his own.
**TL:DR: Ainz's skills as a salary man and a competitive gamer don't translate well to politics or world conquest. Without his own gamebreaking powers, his almost as powerful loyal NPCs, his permanent poker face (well, poker skull) and a dose of incompetence from some of the enemy commanders, Ainz's plans wouldn't have worked nearly as well.
** To give one an idea of just how lousy Ainz is as an actual ''leader'', in an official list made by the author of the best leaders in the series, [[Lulz|Ainz is close to ''dead last'']].

* The Monkey King, from [[Mythology|Journey To The West]], if one assumes he isn't a religious figure and thus safe to include in this list, is interesting in that while he's very close to being a Mary Sue, several factors drag him away from the classification:
*#He's charged with protecting an unworldly monk, along with a horse (actually a shapeshifted dragon, which even the author seems to forget about), a borderline nonentity, and a pig-headed idiot (in both senses of the term, since he's a pig-demon who often lets his selfishness screw the group over). Rescuing them is most of what he does in the main body of the story.
*# He's repeatedly shown as being outwitted by the Buddha and Guanyin, and is outright curbstomped in combat by some of the many demons they encounter along the journey. While Wukong usually wins in the end, he rarely wins with no setbacks at all (whether that's physical injury, emotional turmoil and angst, or his friends getting kidnapped again) - contrasting heavily with a typical Mary Sue's victories being all but handed to them.
*#On a related note, he doesn't win everything and anything by himself: for example, during the contest with the Three Immortals, the last task (sitting on top of a pillar for days on end without moving) has to be undertaken by Tripitaka (the monk) specifically because Monkey's impulsive ways and lack of patience render him unsuitable for it; much earlier, he's rendered temporarily blind and has to rely completely on an otherwise neutral Bodhisattva to fight for him when faced with a demon he can't outsmart or outfight. This contrasts heavily with the omni-competence displayed by many Mary Sue characters.
*#He's pretty heavily flawed as a character, being impatient, reckless, childish, and frequently hot-headed - all of which have actual consequences for the Monkey King (ex.: rashly accepting Buddha's 'jump out of the palm of my hand' challenge, which gets him stuck under a mountain for several centuries; killing a demon disguised as an innocent woman without explaining himself first gets him kicked out of the party by his pacifistic boss; bumrushing a powerful demon nearly gets him killed by the True Fire of Samadhi, forcing him to go to Guanyin for help), with a good portion of the story involving him undergoing character development and overcoming these flaws as opposed to starting out as the pinnacle of morality with zero flaws whatsoever.
*#If one cares to dip into a religious reading, one can see in his introduction the clear Buddhist message "No matter how awesome you are, you are still trapped in the machinations of Desire and Karma"; alternately, if you don't care for religion, there's also the message "make enough of a nuisance of yourself, and your enemies will eventually slap you down even if it means X" (in the case of the Monkey King, swallowing their pride and asking help from somebody they dislike).
**TL;DR: Sun Wukong can be viewed as a deconstruction of certain kinds of Mary Sues, before the idea of a "Mary Sue" was even created.

* [[The Raven Queen]] is a fairly good example of why "Mary Sue" accusations, unless taken from a Author-Centered or Functional perspective, are somewhat useless. TRQ hits many Mary Sue buttons, and thus is sometimes accused of being a Sue. ''HOWEVER,'':
** She's never the protagonist, and when she does appear, she's treated the same as any of the other deities in 4e. Accusations of Functional Suedom thus sort of fall flat.
** While she may hit some Authorial-Centered (or Doylist) definitions of the term, it's probably more appropriate to compare her to just about any other non-monster female character in 4th Edition D&D in this context--while she is obviously designed to attract those who are attracted to a certain kind of woman, so are all the other non-monster females (to quote a famous demotivator, "RPG Artwork: Let's face it, a lot of it is porn. (Pretty odd porn, too)."). 
** She is no longer an example at all due to her backstory being completely rewritten in 5th edition to make her fit in with the setting better. She is no longer even a god since her attempt to become one was sabotaged, turning her into a phantom with a craving for knowledge and memories.

* Saitama from One-Punch Man. As the title indicates, he's able to defeat just about any opponent with one punch (with a few exceptions that require two or, rarely, three). While this makes him stronger than most of the "S-Class heroes" (the highest rank in the Hero Association), at the start of the series Saitama's personal life royally sucked: he had to pinch pennies to eat, had no knowledge of the Hero Association until he was notified by others of its existence, and his sheer strength means that his fights are inevitably painfully one-sided and boring for him. Even the arc villains who force him to use his Serious Series techniques will leave him bored, and since nobody knew who he was until recently, credit for his work went to other people. Capping it all off, the superhero name he was given by the association is [[Lulz|"Caped Baldy"]].
** Just to be clear, the main reason why he's not actually a Sue has to do with the main focus of the series: that Saitama gets no satisfaction from his lopsided victories, and the fact that the World's Strongest Man is something of a pathetic loser.
** The Monster Association Arc actually served to highlight Saitama's flaws since his knack for getting lost, stuck, or just being late to a fight meant that the Hero Association had to get by a number of very hard fights without his help, which included a battle with a villain who would have wiped out humanity. Even though Saitama is virtually unstoppable, he still can't protect the world on his own.

* Rick Sanchez from Rick and Morty, for the first two seasons. When it comes to his (seemingly) limitless ability to invent crazy sci-fi tech and to get himself out of virtually every tough spot, not to mention with getting away with being a colossal jerk to everyone around him, Rick could qualify as an anti-Sue. But his character is far from perfect, and he often falls under a combination of archetype and deconstruction. As a person, he is an older man who’s had a tough break (divorce and the death of a close family member in some parallel universe), and the fact that he has all this tech and that he either can't solve his personal problems or prevent new ones from occurring. Though the fact that he can be funny, the handful of moments of his positive qualities and being a fictional character do contribute to his likability.
** Again, to be clear: Rick's antics would probably qualify him for the main list, but the show is very clear on a few points that move him here: First, Rick is an asshole (also a massive nihilist), and not the type you want to be, either (it's almost directly stated that his assholery grows from some pretty grim experiences and knowledge); second, Rick is not somebody you want to be, nor be around; and third, the writers realize that he's both of the above.
**Season 3 however, ruined this and tried to attempt to drop his despicability, what few weaknesses he had, and just plain made him extremely overpowered. The only reason we haven't moved Rick back to the main list is because, if you look at the production end, it becomes obvious Seasons 1 and 2 were effectively a completely different show from later seasons.

* The main casts of [[Star Trek]] TOS and TNG eras (besides Wesley due to being Rodenberry's self insert above and Voyager due to poor writing all around)--in particular, James T. Kirk when not written by William Shatner-- provide a good reference line for Suedom. Although they are usually right by authorial fiat, there are several points that point the other way from Suedom:
*#They are also usually allowed to be wrong about an issue, at least initially (and rarely, but still often enough to be worth mentioning, all the way to the end of the story).
*#The fact that the focus is usually on the scenario presented, rather then the perfectness of the characters.
*#They all have character flaws (Kirk's "No Such Thing As A No Win Situation" attitude is presented as something that could get him and his crew killed one day, for a notable example.)
*#They are not omni-competent, even within their field -- Kirk has canonically been outmaneuvered multiple times.
*#Most importantly, the writing is usually of sufficient quality to not make their perfectness an issue (except, in Kirk's case, for works written by William Shatner).
*#Notably, as part of #2 and #5, there is no "right" solution to many of the situations beyond "survival"; the audience is usually allowed to draw its own conclusions about the morality of the situation, whereas the author of a Sue typically drives home in heavy-handed fashion that X is ''definitely'' the morally correct course of action.
** Combined, these points make them a good reference line for "hyper-competent" characters: Beyond here may lie Suedom.
*** The creators of DS9 succeeded in toning down the Mary Sue factor a bit. A necessity when one of the premises of the series was energy based aliens who live in a wormhole. Who know little to nothing of meatbag values and no concept of time. The were even given a weakness too. The Prophets also did some pretty fucked up shit themselves and had to be convinced to do help out the main cast. Even when the Alpha Quadrant was being invaded by an empire that [[/pol/ ]]wishes they were. The Dominion themselves are a deconstruction of pre turn of the millennium [[Imperium of Man]] and [[Star Wars|the Galactic Empire.]] Unfortunately post Voyager Star trek went Transwarp speed in the other direction and the franchise had to be rebooted. [[fail|Twice]].

* At first glance, Tsukiko from [[Order of the Stick]] seems like a textbook Mary Sue, given the LONG list of Mary Sue boxes she ticks: Heterochromatic eyes, great beauty, skimpy clothing, unusually skilled for her young age, Japanese name meaning "moon child", oppressed by a stuck-up society not understanding her greatness etc. But in reality, Rich Burlew wrote her as a satire and deconstruction of the Mary Sue archetype and the mindset that often creates such characters. Listing them off:
*# The reason she was "oppressed by society"? They threw her in jail for '''literal''' [[Slaanesh corpsefucking]]. Yes, she's a necrophile, and it's treated as being just as gross as it is IRL, even by other villains.
*# Great beauty? Nobody cares, and it doesn't make her a good person by default.
*# Sees good in the bad guys that nobody else does? It's based on deliberately ridiculous logic that is completely wrong anyway. (To be exact, she holds the view that [[What|the living are jerks, and the undead are the opposite of the living, ergo the undead must be good people]]; the batshit insanity of this is called out for what it is.) Also, she thinks that Xykon is some kind of [[Twilight|Edward Cullen type-guy]], as opposed to the [[Alignment|Chaotic Evil]] [[Lich]] [[Sorcerer]] he ''actually is''.
*# A bad guy becomes a complete dumbass to accommodate her genius? Nope, Redcloak only let her have her way so his own, far more subtle machinations could avoid having attention drawn to them; when she forces his hand he gladly demonstrates to her that she was completely outclassed by him the whole time.
*# The bad guy gets effortlessly beaten by her because of her skills? Ha ha ha -- hell no. When she confronted him, Redcloak casually killed her in deliciously karmic fashion by effortlessly dominating her Wights ([[FATAL|simultaneously her surrogate children, minions and lovers]]), removing her enchanted anti-level-draining ring, and then ordering them to devour their creator as he delivered a scathing "You suck!" speech to her about how undead are not ''people'', just complex ''weapons''; her thinking otherwise doesn't make it so and if she ever thought he was powerless before her, she was dead wrong.
*#Just to really drive home the point: for all her big talk and all her supposed greatness, nobody on Team Evil gives a damn when Redcloak quietly ganks her (except the Monster in the Darkness, but they're the resident softie of the team) and she's swiftly forgotten about.
** TL;DR version: Tsukiko is a parody and deconstruction of a Sue, who is shown to be objectively deluded about everything and suffers actual consequences for her actions.




[[Category:Mary Sue]]