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Imperial Japanese Equipment

2023-05-24T13:13:12Z

2A02:1811:3B7F:B000:158C:123A:DD3D:73F9: /* Fighters */

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The Empire of Japan: the first East Asian country to successfully industrialize in the late 19th century and from the 1930s to 45 the scourge of the Pacific. The second most powerful Axis nation and had their own theatre. While better off than [[Fascist Italian Equipment|Italy]] (which isn't saying much...), Japan still lagged behind in a lot of fields and had major raw materials and fuel shortages.

Generally speaking Imperial Japanese gear generally falls into four categories...
*Solid by Great War and Inter-War standards but out of date for WWII.
*Good, if made with some weird logic or specific bit of Min-Maxing in mind.
*Unusable/near unusable garbage due to cost cutting and bizarre moon logic.
*Really rough and dirty stuff cludged together as Japan got a major beat down.

== Small Arms ==
Japan's small arms were generally less advanced than that of other countries at the time; while most countries still relied on bolt-action rifles as their service weapon, many countries still produced decent quantities of SMGs as well as self-loading rifles in more limited numbers. Japan however focused primarily on bolt-action rifles, with fewer automatic weapons to back them up. Weapon quality also suffered later in the war as well.
=== Rifles and SMGs ===
[[Image:Arisaka.jpg|300px|thumb|Left|The Arisaka rifle, not to be confused with rifles made by [[Cyberpunk 2020|Arasaka]] ]]
* '''Type 30 Arisaka''': Japan's old rifle, designed by Arisaka Nariakira and put into service in 1899, it saw use in the Russo-Japanese War and the Great War. Fired a 6.5x50mm bullet. Generally a solid five-shot bolt action for it's day, if a bit underpowered.
**As a side note, the 6.5x50mm Arisaka bullet was better suited for a man-portable automatic weapon than the typical over-charged full rifle rounds of the late 19th/early 20th century, which were made with accuracy and stopping power in mind. The Russian Fedorov Avtomat used them.
* '''Type 38 Arisaka''': Update on the Type-30. Used primarily in WWI, and partially replaced by the Type 99 in WWII. Had utterly shit sights and a weird safety.
* '''Type 97 Arisaka''': Type 38 rifle adapted for sniper use, usually with a 2.5x power scope. 6.5x50mm produces very little flash and smoke when coming out of a long barrel, making Japanese snipers difficult to spot.
* '''Type 99 Arisaka''': Built to replace the Type 30 and Type 38 by firing a 7.7x58mm cartridge. Improvements to the sights also made it the preferred rifle for snipers. That said, the Japanese still had a lot of Type 38s and 6.5x50mm, so it never fully replaced the Type 38. The sniper variant of the Type 99 was one of the more sensible snipers of the war, as the scope was mounted offset so that strip mags could still be inserted, resulting in a faster overall rate of fire. Also had a terrible trigger and the same shit sights from the Type 38.
* '''Type 4 Rifle''': It became apparent to the Japanese that many countries were now adopting semi-auto rifles, including the German G43, the Russian SVT40, but especially the American M1 Garand. Since they didn't have the time or resources to develop a brand-new rifle during the war, they basically reverse-engineered the Garand and built it to use the same 7.7mm stripper clips as the Type 99. A few hundred were made but were never deployed before the war ended.
* '''Type 100 Nambu''': The only production SMG made by the Japanese, and made in more limited numbers compared to other militaries. The Nambu SMG fired the same 8x22mm cartridge as the standard Nambu pistol. It had sideloading magazine much like the earlier MP18 and contemporary Sten; while side-loading magazines had fallen out of favor by this time due to the unbalanced weight, it was a hell of lot better than the other experimental Nambu SMGs that had been made at the time.
* '''Nambu Experimental Model 2''': One of the experimental SMGs developed before the war; it was initially rejected, but the urgency for more SMGs pushed the design into production. However, because it was being produced in Manchuria, the Chinese Communists took the design and used it during the Chinese Civil War, these being converted to use .45 ACP Thompson magazines.
* '''Murata Rifle''': The OG of Japanese military rifles, first put into production back in 1880 and used during the Russo-Japanese war. Originally single shot, latter got a tube-mag upgrade. Only used on the home islands for the civilian reservists.
* '''Last Ditch Guns''': In the late war, Japanese manufacturing had been effectively crippled and resources were in short supply, so these so-called "Last Ditch Rifles" were made to arm what military forces remained, as well as civilians for the upcoming invasion of the Japanese home islands. These ranged from simplified versions of the Type 99 to very crude single-shot musket-things to give to civvies. Most of the stereotypical garbage that would explode at the slightest touch issues occurred here. While they didn't issue guns that would actually explode (that dishonor would go to the poor abused things Kijiro Nambu's pistols were reduced to by the late war) much more than normal, quality control rapidly went down the drain and reliability issues really did go up a lot. Most likely they jest wouldn't fire or get jammed far earlier than early war guns.

=== Pistols ===
* '''Type 26 Revolver''': A simple break-action hammerless revolver, chambered in 9mm Japanese revolver. Was invented back in 1893 but was still used in WWII to supplement weapon stockpiles.
* '''Nambu Type 14''': The standard sidearm of the IJA following WWI, replacing the Type 26. Chambered in 8x22mm, it wasn't as strong as contemporary pistols, but was solidly built, and later became the inspiration for the Ruger .22 pistol. General IJA policy at the time was that officers were allowed to buy sidearms with their own money. A common misconception is that the Type 14 was dangerous to shoot, which is only half true. It won't explode, but it will sometimes go off when clearing a jam(more on that below). Another is that the Nambu was a cheaper knockoff of the Luger, which is untrue. The Type 14 is a series of improvements of an earlier weapon commonly called "Grandpa Nambu", a firearm which appeared in production at roughly a similar time to the Luger. While not objectively terrible, it was nothing compared to the Italian Berreta or Browning's 1911. It frequently jammed as well due to the springs not being able to keep up with the bolt, and was compounded by the bullets being angled up. The magazine release is also difficult to clear without adjusting your grip. However to the weapon's credit it had a very light trigger pull and had a trigger guard designed to allow troops wearing gloves to use them without removing said gloves.
* '''Nambu Type 94''': A smaller, lighter-weight pistol compared to the Type 14. It was called the "Surrender Pistol" because it had an exposed sear, meaning that pressing down on the sear could fire the gun without pulling the trigger, so supposedly a Japanese soldier could fake surrendering so that they could shoot their captors up close. While this may have happened on occasion, stories of surrendering troops regularly firing using the sear are probably unsubstantiated, as it takes a considerable amount of force to squeeze the sear hard enough to fire the pistol. The Type 94 was used primarily by officers, army airmen, tankers, and paratroopers due to the lighter weight. Largely it was an army weapon, though there are reports of the Type 94 being used by Navy officers who purchased them with their own money. Even so, it was still a piece of shit. If the safety was not on, the exposed seer could lead to accidental discharge if it was bashed into something and occasionally they blew up in people's hands when fired.
* '''Hamada Type Pistol''': a Browning-style pistol that was developed after Japan could no longer import foreign pistols. While cheaper and more reliable than the Nambu pistol, it arrived late into the war. The Type 1 was chambered in .32 ACP, and the Type 2 was chambered in 8x22mm.
=== Machine Guns ===
[[Image:Japanese Type 11 LMG.jpg|300px|thumb|right|The lengths some people will go for cross-compatibility]]
* '''Type 11 Light Machine gun''': Put into service in 1922, this gun is ''weird''. It's like the gun equivalent of putting a USB port on an I-Phone so you can use the same flash drive in it and your laptop. Basic idea, make a machine gun that could use the 5 round stripper clips used by Arisaka Rifles. That means you don't have to make special magazines for it or ship them to the front, while regular infantry dudes can supply it with bullets in a pinch. So it has this weird hopper magazine that takes up to 6 clips. This also meant putting the stock off to the side. While it worked, it was heavy, awkward and not terribly reliable. The Soviets captured a few and actually made a few prototypes with a copied mechanism before realizing that it was more hassle than it was worth.
* '''Type 96 Light Machinegun''': to address the problems with the Type 11, the Japanese replaced it with a different model that used a top-loading magazine, based on the Czech ZB VZ 26 (which also inspired the Bren Gun).
* '''Type 97 Heavy Machine Gun''': Another machinegun based on the VZ 26, but more heavily built as it was intended for mounting on tanks. Rarely deployed as an infantry machinegun due to the extra weight, it featured an integrated scope and heavy barrel jacket to give it a distinctive appearance.
* '''Type 99 Light Machine Gun''': Visually similar to the Type 96 but chambered in the same 7.7x58mm ammo as the Type 99 Arisaka. Other than that, it and the Type 96 [[Imperial Guard|were one of the few LMGs with a bayonet mount.]]

=== Anti-Tank Infantry Weapons ===
* '''Type 4 70 mm AT rocket launcher''': Introduced in 1944 as an answer to the American Bazooka. Fairly basic but still a reusable item, a rocket was slotted into the front and set up by a simple percussion lock. A few thousand of these were made before the war ended and they saw only limited use. Never the less the PLA copied them for their first generation of RPGs.
* '''Lunge Mine''': Somehow the Japanese figured out a way to banzai charge tanks of all things. Little more than a shape charge attached to a pole, the idea was that a soldier would wait in ambush for an enemy tank to get close enough; the attacker would then charge at the tank’s side armor and strike it with the lunge mine to set it off; of course, at that range the explosion would more than likely kill or maim the user, if they weren’t already killed from trying to charge a friggin tank.
* '''Type 97 Automatic Cannon''': The Japanese version of the AT-rifle concept. Hilarious because they considered it a cannon and less of an AT-Rifle. [[Awesome|Shot 20mm ammo]]. So did the Finnish AT-rifles, but it is more hilarious because Japan also built Yamato(more on that below). What was unique is that they ended up getting used on some Japanese aircraft as a form of cannon. Overall not a terrible weapon, but quickly became outdated and was abandoned after 1200 total units due to the sheer complexity, but it certainly puts a massive dent in the "Japan just built shitty stuff" myth.

=== Misc ===
* '''Type 89 and Type 10 Grenade dischargers, aka "Knee Mortars"''': A nifty little Japanese design, these are basically miniature man-portable mortars. Lightweight (around 5 kg) and nominally requiring only a single soldier to use , they were capable of chucking a hand grenade up to 200 meters away, which came in pretty handy in the often close and cramped firefights in the jungle. As an amusing sidenote, the name 'Knee Mortar' comes from a mistranslation of a Japanese manual on how to use the thing: American soldiers first believed they were supposed to be braced against one's leg due to the curved butt-plate (which in reality is to make it easier to rest against tree roots or rough ground). While the error was quickly discovered (it was obvious from the recoil that bracing it on your leg would break your femur at best), the name stuck.
* '''Guntō''': Bargain Basement knock-off katanas. It was a regulation that all IJA officers were required to carry a sword and to that end a large number of these swords were made. Since Japan was raising a fuck-huge army under the militarists, they dispensed with the old arts of Sword Production and instead produced lots of blades quickly with modern milling/grinding/quenching techniques. For this reason, such 'modern' blades aren't considered traditional swords in Japan and they can be confiscated by the government for recycling. Real traditional katanas were a very rare sight on the battlefields of WWII, for even those officers that came from an old samurai family and possessed a genuine one often left the priceless family heirloom at home and carried a fancied-up Guntō (that would do the job in a pinch anyway) in battle. A lot of the surviving ones today are trophies collected by US Army soldiers and Marines ([[lulz|and often misidentified for genuine katanas by the uninformed]]).
* '''Bayonets''': The IJA stuck bayonets on ''everything''. Not just rifles, but also their LMGs and SMGs. Bayonet charge had fallen out of favor with everyone else, and bayonets were only a last ditch weapon for everyone else, but bayonet fighting was still a mainstay of the IJA and had some success on the Chinese front. Against the Americans, however, who possessed significantly more automatic weapons and Garands, it had been rendered a useless tactic. They did gain some amount of utility when used in conjunction with night attacks, but as the war went on the number of seasoned troops who could pull this off had been drowned, killed in dumbass final charges to redeem their honor, or killed in any other ways the Pacific and Asia had to offer, including but not limited to Malaria, Malnutrition, Naval bombardment, Aerial Bombardment, Flamethrowers, Flamethrowers in Tanks, Indian Crocodiles, Angry Gurkhas and even Angrier Aussies.

== Artillery and AT guns ==

== Vehicles ==

=== Tanks ===
The Tank Fleet of the Imperial Japanese Army was not that great. Our dear friends had experimented with the tank concept pretty early on; they were the first nation to make a tank with a diesel engine, but much like the rest of the world took the wrong lessons from Spain. They also failed to integrate the weapons into divisions properly. The skirmishes with the Soviet Union and visits to Germany in the late 30s pretty much proved that the concept worked different than they thought, and they tried to catch up. However, tanks take a lot of money, labour and equipment to produce and a lot of fuel to operate, and the thing you need to know about the Empire of Japan is that above all else, the army and the navy literally without question hated each other. So every time the Army wanted to start production of tanks they had to compete for steel, manpower, labour, and everything else. Given that in China 1930s era tanks were still quite effective and if war happened with the United States the fleet and air forces obviously took priority, the navy generally won these fights. So most of the "good" tanks ended up in the homeland because of the logistics strain, and the far cheaper Type 95 Ha-go/Kyugo were far more common by virtue of being lighter and thus less of a bother to send to shitty undeveloped island #273.

Imperial Japanese Tanks were given a designation based on the Imperial Japanese Calendar, which starts counting at 660 BCE.

*'''Type 95 Ha-go/Kyugo''': Named Ha-go after the manufacturer but called the Kyugo by troops, either name is correct, but Ha-go is more familiar to western audiences. Since Japan like most powers considered the idea of the Infantry and Cruiser tank concepts, the 95 was considered as an alternative to the land battleship concept. The 95 could keep up speed and were vastly faster, making them better than contemporary infantry tanks. They ever were cheaper to make, and were cushioned against heat and bumps...[[Grimdark|by asbestos.]] In Burma, one was captured and is still at Bovington, and a contemporary report indicated that there were design elements that were quite good, especially the bogie wheel suspension. However, the 37mm cannon became rapidly outdated, and the machine guns were only ok, being fed by hoppers and not belts, and the commander was cramped and somewhat overwhelmed. Perhaps worst of all was that crews were strongly frowned upon for adding on armor or boxes for ammo, though logs to allow troops to sit on the back were considered acceptable. The turret could also could be [[FAIL|jammed with a knife]], and there are allegations that American .30-06 ammo was able to penetrate the side armor, though these reports are not fully substantiated.
* '''Type 97 Chi-Ha''': The main medium tank of the IJA during WWII. It weighed 14.3 tonnes, a 127kW engine, armor 8-26mm thick and was armed with a 57 mm main gun and a couple of machine guns. When it was introduced in 1936 the Chi-Ha was pretty good and it was often effective in China. When the US came around, not so much.
** '''Type 97 ShinHōtō Chi-Ha''': A Chi-Ha with more armor and a higher velocity 47mm gun better for anti-tank work introduced in 1942.
* '''Type 1 Chi-He''': Another upgrade on the Chi-Ha with some more armor and a better engine. About 170 were made and they stayed on the Home Islands.
* '''Type 3 Chi-Nu''': Another upgrade on the Chi-Ha, with up to 50mm of armor and a 75mm anti-tank gun. It was designed to take out Shermans in 1943 and put into production in 1944 when Japan was getting a serious ass whoopin by US Bombers. The most advance Japanese Tank to see even limited mass production. Stayed in the Home Islands.
* '''Type 4 Chi-To''': Not an update on the Chi-Ha, but an entirely new vehicle from the ground up. A couple of Prototype vehicles which were broadly speaking in the T-34/Sherman's ballpark. The Cheeto's legacy is mostly preserved by World of Tanks and Alternate History nerds.
* '''Type 5 Chi-Ri''': A single prototype that, had it been completed would have been more heavily armored than a Sherman with a new powerful 75mm gun, plus a 37mm secondary cannon. If the [[M6 Heavy Tank|M6's]] trials are any indication the 37mm would've been superfluous, though it isn't like Japan had access to Aberdeen proving grounds or anything so how would they have known?

=== Halftracks and armored cars ===
Much like the rest of the powers involved in the second world war, the Imperial Japanese Army did have a pool of halftracks and armored cars.

However, most of the Japanese armored cars had a rather unique feature, they could be deployed on both roadways and rail lines. This is similar to modern railway utility trucks, except they arent armored or armed.

The Imperial Japanese Army, while stereotyped for having terrible equipment, did at least have some inventation through their armored cars in that the wheels that allow them to be used on railways could be switch to different rail gauges and did develop one of the first ancestors to modern full track armored personnel carriers.

A major fail was that the IJA did not prioritize infantry transports as much as other more mechanized militaries did and as a result like most of the equipment used they where outclassed by allied forces and superior designs.

Some of the more famous examples of armored cars and half tracks most of which where based on 1920s interwar british designs.

*Chiyoda armoured car/ Type 2592
Offically the first domestic made armored car that was produced for both the IJA and the IJN, was armed with 3 Type 11 6.5mm machine guns. Only thing of note is it was a six wheeled design unlike most countries using four wheeled designs.

*Sumida M.2593
Made a year after the Chiyoda this was the first armored car in the IJA and IJN, that could be used on both road ways and rail ways.

Is crew could change between the two in little less then a half hour and the wheels for rail use could be adjusted for different railway gauges. Another unique feature to this armored car was while it was used on railways it could be linked with others to form a type of rolling stock.

They could be armed with either a 6.5mm machine gun or a 7.7mm machine gun with gun slits cut into the armor for its crew to use infantry weapons.

*Type 1 Ho-Ha
One of the only true halftracks produced for use by the IJA, developed in 1941, but did not reach production until 1944, it was partially based on the Germans Sd.Kfz. 251 with some American M3 influence as well. It carried 3 type 97 machine gun in constricted fire arcs leaving it exposed to
attacks from the direct front and direct rear.

*Type 1 Ho-Ki
An honest ancestor of the fully tracked APC, and an example of too little too late for the imperial japanese military. Developed 1941 but produced in mass by 1944 , it was made originally as a heavily armored artillery tractor but was adaptes to serve in an infantry carry role with a capacity of 13. It was unarmed but provisions where made to mount a type 92 infantry machine gun.

== Ships ==
Of all the Axis powers, the Empire of Japan had the strongest navy. Germany had to rebuild its fleet effectively from scratch and Italy... [[Fascist Italian Equipment|was Italy]]. Japan, on the other hand, was THE major ally of Great Britain in East Asia after World War 1 and was "permitted" to expand its fleet up to two-thirds the tonnage of Great Britain and the United States through the 1920s and '30s. As might be expected, the Japanese resented the tonnage restrictions and basically tried to circumvent or design their way around them until they eventually repudiated the naval treaties entirely. What they never really understood was that the naval treaties tied one hand behind the backs of their naval rivals, as both Great Britain and obviously the United States were able to outproduce Japan's shipbuilding industry pretty handily in World War II. The Japanese Navy was extremely effective through 1943, and it was really only after devastating losses at the Battle of Midway, where 2/3rds of their primary carrier fleet were sunk (which they didn't tell the army about for a while), that they began their decline. <s>[[Weeaboo|Good luck trying to look up a Japanese ship name without being bombarded by pictures of anime girls though.]]</s>

=== Aircraft Carriers ===
Japan entered World War II with the most experienced sea aviation force in the world, with a total of 8 carriers constructed before 1940. They soon learned the lessons America and Britain eventually did, that larger carriers are better and that superimposed decks (multiple flight decks stacked like cake tiers) are a bad idea. However, they failed to anticipate the scale of their losses and were unable to complete replacement carrier construction for much of the war. One achievement that highlights this failure was the construction of the carrier ''Shinano,'' a converted ''Yamato''-class battleship and thus the largest aircraft carrier built during the war. Because she was a conversion of a half-finished battleship hull that had been hastily chosen after the disaster of Midway, the IJN couldn't actually convert her to a full fleet carrier and settled for making one of their most expensive assets (in terms of time, money, and resources invested) into a support carrier that would focus on repairing and resupplying the air arms of full fleet carriers that, by the time she was launched in 1944, had all been annihilated. She was sunk less than two months after being launched by an American submarine, and had only ever carried 50 '''Ohka''' flying bombs.

* '''''Akagi''''': An ''Amagi''-class battlecruiser hull converted to an aircraft carrier after Japan entered into the 1922 Washington Naval Treaty. Akagi was completed with '''three''' flight decks, from which planes could theoretically be launched simultaneously. In practice, the bottom and top decks worked well while the middle flight deck was less than 1/10th the length of the top flight deck and was flanked by two twin 8" gun turrets that prevented the deck's use in battle. The lowest flight deck was also small, being only 1/3rd the length of the uppermost flight deck; both the middle and lower decks, as a result, could only be used for small, light, and increasingly obsolete aircraft. The remaining armament consisted of six casemate 8" guns, as well as six 4.7" guns for anti-ship and anti-aircraft duty. Much like the USS ''Langley'', this early and pioneering design lacked an island for command and control arrangements. Eventually the ship was completely refit to the iconic aircraft carrier design recognized today: all major gun turrets were removed, the top flight deck was extended, and the lower decks were eliminated in favor of increased hanger space for more aircraft. An island bridge allowed for better aircraft coordination and fire control, especially for the new 25mm autocannons that were fitted to the ship. These improvements did have a negative effect on her speed, though she could now theoretically launch 80 aircraft, most of which would be A6M Zeroes.
**''Akagi'' carried a weakness common to most early aircraft carriers: Usually made from converted warships built for entirely different purposes, they possessed the armor specifications of a battleship against direct and indirect gunfire, but none against air attack. Their decks were especially vulnerable to enemy aerial attacks, with the American ''Lexington''-class carriers also sharing this characteristic. ''Akagi'' was sunk by aerial divebombs during the Battle of Midway in 1942, partly because tired ordnance crews left explosives strewn throughout the open hangar and most of her planes were being pumped full of aviation fuel in preparation for a strike against the American carriers.
* '''Sōryū''':
* '''Kaga''': Kaga was planned to be the second of the Tosa-class battleships, but after the Washington Naval Treaty she was intended to be scrapped before being completed. Akagi's sister Amagi was wrecked while under construction in the Great Kanto Eartquake, so Kaga was converted instead.
* '''Shokaku and Zuikaku'''
* '''Hiyō and Jun'yō'''
* '''Taihō''': An object lesson in damage control.
* '''Unryū, Amagi and Katsuragi (+ whole host of cancelled ships in this class)''':
* '''Shinano''':

=== Battleships ===
Japanese Battleships are an interesting lot. Unlike [[Nazi|the funny spider people]] or [[Fascist Italy|the Pizzas,]] the IJN actually had a decent number of Battleships that got to participate in the war. They were also rather impressive on a technological level, being well armed and well built. This is all moot though, because by the time of their arrival, it was the twilight of the Battleship era and the beginning of the Carrier era.

* '''Yamato class''': The single largest series of battleships ever built at 263 meters, and the wet dream of any naval enthusiast, weeaboo, and big gun fan everywhere. But before we get excited, we need to make it clear that no, the Yamato was objectively the wrong ship in the wrong war. The age of the battleship, with rare exception for shore bombardment, was pretty much over. Worse of all Japan was somewhat aware of this, with foremost officers like Yamamoto outright saying Naval airpower is the future, and was proven largely correct as the only engagement Yamato or Musashi (Shinano was another ship of the line that was converted partway through construction, see her section in the carriers) ever participated in where they actually got to fire their weapons at anyone turned out to be Leyte gulf in 1944, and both were sunk by angry American dive and torpedo bombers by 1945.
** With that boring disclaimer out of the way, let's get to the meat and potatoes. The thing had nine 480mm cannons and was housed in a turret that [[Awesome|weighed as much as a small destroyer.]] On top of that, each turret could fire AA shells that would explode after a time fuse delay, and the few test photographs we have show they were a sight to behold, though US pilots reported not being too afraid of them, and they tended to damage the barrels. The class had an incredible number of medium and light weapons that could be brought to bear against lighter targets and fighters as well, with as many as 100 of these lighter weapons, though the 25mm autocannons were reportedly some of the worst in the war. There were some additional 13mm machine guns thrown on the bridge for good measure, but this was more like a desperate afterthought than a concerted effort to add additional AA protection. Still, a Yamato could still cause a small Titan or knight to sweat a little, because those main armaments are utterly insane.
** Yamato had a ludicrous 410-650mm armor in some places, making her an armored behemoth. However, it is important to remember that [[Katanas are Underpowered in d20|Japanese steel historically sucks.]] The torpedo defense system was hoped to protect the ships, but was often troublesome and thus never really as effective as hoped. A prime example of this is when an American submarine hit Yamato and forced her to return to port for repairs, and the outright sinking of the Shinano by the USS Archerfish, a Yamato modified to be a "carrier support vessel". Don't forget that US Torpedoes were '''''shit'''''. It was more often a surprise when the Mark 48 actually did damage instead of just harmlessly bouncing off the hull of the ship.

*'''Kii Class''': Four fast battleships planned for the eight-eight battlefleet program intended to succeed the Tosa class, cancelled after the Washington Naval Treaty, along with planned successor Number 13 class.

*'''Tosa Class''': Essentially a better post World War 1 version of the Nagato with an extra turret, cancelled with the Washington Naval Treaty. Tosa's hull was used to test armor against ordnance and was scuttled, while Kaga was converted into an aircraft carrier after battlecruiser Amagi's hull that was planned to be converted originally was wrecked in the Great Kanto earthquake.

* '''Nagato class''': The Nagatos were two dreadnought class vessels that served as the heaviest warships in the IJN until the arrival of the Yamatos. They came as a result of the Russo-Japanese War, and were part of a massive armament effort in light of the development of the HMS Dreadnought. The class was armed with four twin 41cm turrets and twenty casemate 5" cannons for dealing with lighter vessels and four 3" guns. They copied American belt armor designs that allowed for additional speed that made them fast for the time. Modernization added new mgs and 25mm cannons, as well as bulges for anti-torpedo duties and equipment replacement. However the class saw relatively little service throughout the war.
** Nagato's sister ship Mutsu saw little service and coincidentally blew up and sank in harbor. The Government covered up the details so little is known to this day, but the best guess we have is that a fire got out of control and the ammo rolled a one on it's existence save. As a side-note, Mutsu was slated to be scrapped per the Washington Treaty, but internal political considerations (made a show of it being partially funded by schoolchildren' donations) made that unacceptable for Japan, so they conceded for US and UK to get extra battleships of their own to keep the ratio on.
** Nagato herself saw very little service as well, despite being the flagship of the Pearl Harbor attacks. She fought the Americans in a few battles, but was bombed and forced to return to Japan. She then stayed in harbor as a AA gun as there wasn't enough material to get her into fighting condition again. After the war the Americans captured her and tested nukes on her, before ultimately letting her capsize. If nothing else, Nagato gets credit where it is due: The thing lasted longer than the Yamato and actually survived to be captured by the Americans, rather than being sunk by a squillion [[Angry Marines|angry pilots]] still pissed off about the boats that they blew up. . .And America then promptly blew it up twice with Atomic Bombs in the Operation Crossroad tests. Amusingly its radiation has faded enough to seemingly become a popular diving site.

* '''Kongo class''': The Kongo class is well known among naval combat nerds for being the ones that actually showed up and did the fighting, unlike the Yamatos. Construction of the IJN Kongo took place in Britain, but the remainder of these ships were built in Japan. Initially the primary armament was was eight 14" guns mounted in twin turrets, sixteen casemate 6" guns, as well as a token armament of four 3" guns. In addition the ship had eight torpedo tubes (four per side). The side armor was comparatively thin to the bridge, which had a whopping 355mm of armor compared to the rest of the ship having 203mm maximum belt armor. The Kongo class served quietly in WWI and were forced into training roles to conform with the Washington Naval treaty. A series of innovations during the interwar period included aircraft launchers, additional armor, a new propulsion system, and improvements and upgrades to the main and secondary armaments. This also included the installation of modern hardware like radio systems, searchlights, and fire control systems.
** The Kongos served well and escorted convoys and aircraft carriers during the early conflict. A recurring problem for the class was once an enemy got close, all that armor didn't seem to do any good when the Americans started firing point blank into them. Half the class was sunk in engagements with other enemy ships at Guadalcanal, performing well during combat. Kongo would survive Leyte gulf until being unceremoniously demolished by American submarine USS Sealion. The last vessel of the class to fall, the Shinano, was sunk in 1945 by carrier aircraft while in harbor in Kure. Ironic that holdovers from WWI served with more distinction and service than the supposed mightiest battleships ever built.
** There is some debate as to if the Kongos were "fast battleships" or "battlecruisers". While there is evidence to suggest the latter, they were classified as such in the IJN so that is why they are here. But for all intents and purposes they were closer to battlecruisers than true battleships.

=== Cruisers ===
The cruisers of the IJN were heavily influenced by the Battle of Port Arthur, with a preference for torpedo armed cruisers. Even within the IJN this policy was not without its detractors due to the risks of torpedo tactics. In practice, these torpedoes rarely contributed and were a frequent liability, with several cruisers being taken out of action due to their torpedoes being hit. Otherwise, Japan's cruiser force was generally well built but lacked modern fire control.

*'''Amagi Class''': A battlecruiser class designed to capitalize on the new naval wartime technologies that emerged with the introduction of Dreadnought class warships and other post-WWI innovations. The intended armament was to be 5 twin 400mm cannons as the primary armaments, 16 5.5" casemate cannons, six 4.6" flak cannons, and 8 24" torpedo tubes. The armor was reduced to increase speed, and the overall purpose was to use them as cost effective battleships in support of [[Stellaris|Destroyer swarms]]. We will never really know how they performed, though two of the class were slated to be converted into Aircraft carriers, though only one would ever be completed as an aircraft carrier, the above mentioned Akagi, the Amagi's hull was severely damaged in the Great Kanto Earthquake and it had to be scrapped before completion.

=== Destroyers ===

Japanese destroyer construction after the Washington Naval Treaty emphasized fleet destroyers as a way to bulk out their navy while appearing to conform to the treaty. A series of classes were developed in the 20's and 30's but all were produced in small batches of no more than a couple dozen each. The IJN never settled on a common design for mass production like the USN did with the Fletcher. Throughout the 30's they had the A design, which was for general fleet support, the B design which was for carrier escort and AA, and the C class which would support battlefleets with torpedoes and cannons.

* '''Fubuki''': A class of Destroyers were developed as a direct response to the Washington Naval treaty. They earned the Fubuki nickname long after they had been built. In short, they were designed to bring heavy dakka to the furthest possible distance as quickly as possible, with the heaviest armor they could get away with. They carried a whopping nine 24" torpedoes as well as some 5" cannons and some mgs, with the 5" cannons acting as AA guns as well as anti-ship weapons. 24 were built throughout the class, with only two surviving the war.
** The Type II subclass were generally considered decent for their armament, but the Type III subclass had better power efficiency. The first ten ships were the Type I class and were particularly bad, though later ships improved on these flaws. Overall the Type III was preferred and many of the improvements found on them were given to the Type II class of ships.
** The Fubukis suffered from being too light in weight and AA armament: the entire class had to have rebuilds to make them better at sea performance, and later in the war those lack of AA weapons bit them in the ass hard: it became so desperate that the rear primary turret was replaced with 25mm aa guns. However, they still served well in spite of these flaws, and was the class of ship responsible for stranding JFK at sea.
* '''Shimakaze''': A planned class of destroyers that roughly fills the "C-class" of destroyers starting and ending with the namesake Shimakaze. The Shimakaze needed to be as fast as greased lightning and were armed with three 5" dual purpose cannons and three quintuple torpedo launchers using the infamous Type 93 long range torpedoes. Anti-aircraft guns...well, they were there, just not in quantity. The class was considered too expensive for general production, and Shimakaze herself saw very limited service in the war until being sunk while escorting some troop transports.

== Airplanes ==
Contrary to American propaganda, poorly made history documentaries, or just outright misunderstanding Japanese air doctrine, Japanese aviation was pretty much some of the finest on earth at the time. See, when your empire is built upon island chains, naval and air supremacy kinda become very important. As a result Japanese aircraft, while very poorly armoured (especially by American standards) and not quite as heavily armed compared to the allies, were nevertheless actually very well built, just in a very different way. In gamer's terms (since we are on /tg/), the Japanese airplanes were heavily [[min-max]]xed for their intended role, relying on superior training and coordination between different types to get maximal efficiency out of the whole lot. This went swimmingly for them early in the war...but ended up in catastrophe after both attrition and lack of resources took their toll on both the quality of aircrew and machines alike.

Another quirk of Japanese military aviation had to do with internal bickering between the Navy and Army. The United States had a similar problem, but lessened the problem by delegating some roles to Navy, some to Army, with the rest of these problems being solved by not being a military dictatorship. In short, there was no Imperial Japanese Air Force, both the Navy and the Army kept their own air-wings and mostly they each had their own models of planes.

Also quick note about the "Kamikaze" or 'special attack force' strikes. The reason those strikes were even considered is that by the time, 1944. . . [[Grim and dark|attacking a US naval task by air was already suicide.]] The sheer amount of Dakka that a US task group could out put over a thousand pounds of bullets into the air, per minute, and that doesn't even consider the introduction of proximate fuses. So may as well go for a one way trip as it slightly increases your odds of ''something'' getting through.
===Fighters===
* '''Mitsubishi A5M "Claude"''': The less iconic, but still just as important naval aviation fighter designed by the same man who would develop the Zero: Jiro Horikoshi. Claudes were exclusively Navy aircraft that far excelled navy expectations, and helped end biplanes in IJN aviation service on Aircraft carriers. Early armament was two humble mgs, but variants after the A5M1a incorporated two 20mm Oerlikon cannons. Claudes were largely replaced by the Zero by the time the war broke out, but some were used in Kamikaze attacks in the latter part of the war. The design was so good that the IJA took a break from the dick slapping contest they had with the Navy to consider it, though they felt the maneuverability was lacking. Japanese aviators disliked closed cockpit designs on the A5M because they hindered visibility, so for the most part the aircraft were open topped, with all the positives and negatives that implied.
* '''Mitsubishi A6M "Zero"''': The Zero was the iconic aircraft of the war for Japan and served in every theatre, though it was first and foremost a Navy Fighter. It was designed so that a well trained pilot could fully utilize the aircraft and outmatch most anything in the world at the time. It was even good enough that the basic airframe (made from high-end alumuminum alloys and with revolutionary structures such as smoothed rivets) could be recycled for carrier use with minor modifications. This did have the downside of sometimes removing radios for increased range or due to them just not working, and by late war America and Britain started topping them with better armored and easier to fly designs. However, bear in mind that the Zero could achieve ranges of 1,870 km and was still able to accept upgrades until the end of the war, a feat not shared by every fighter.
* '''Kawasaki Ki-61 "Tony"''':
* '''Nakajima Ki-84 "Frank"''': An Army Fighter put into service in 1944 and competitive with any other piston plane of the late war. A good design which suffered as Japanese Industry was hit hard by bombing and increasingly tight materials shortages.
** '''Mitsubishi J2M "Jack"''': In a sense the Frank's 'little brother': a competitor design, decent but overall not as good. It was put into production alongside the "Frank" anyway since it used a different engine and few of the same resources; and the Japanese concluded that more airframes to try and intercept those pesky B-25's and B-29's simply couldn't hurt. No turbocharger on the engine meant it struggled to reach the bomber's operational altitude in time, but its quartet of hard-hitting 20mm cannons made it a dangerous opponent when it managed to properly intercept.
* '''Kyushu J7W Shinden''': A high speed (750kph) short range prototype interceptor made in the last days of the war. Notably it had a pusher prop in the back and four 30mm cannons in the nose. Designed for the express purpose of ruining the day of those pesky American B-29's bombing the everloving shit out of Japan, but never saw more than a couple of test flights.
* '''Nakajima Kikka''': A prototype Jet Fighter built by the IJN, similar in general shape to the ME 262 (albeit slimmer and lankier) with ten of them being built. It first flew on August 7th 1945, eight days before Emperor Hirohito surrendered. Here more as credit to Japanese Engineers than anything.

===Bombers===
*'''Nakajima B5N "Kate"''': A torpedo and tactical bomber used by the navy and army starting in 1937. The B5N was one of the more advanced designs in the world at the time and was responsible for the sinking of Lexington and Hornet, and contributed to the sinking of the Yorktown. Possessing an impressive range of 1992 kilometers, a decent top speed of over 300kph and carrying an advanced long range torpedo they were able to launch from a further distance than equivalent weapons from other nations (or alternatively three 250kg bombs); they were a force to be reckoned with early into the war. But by 1943 fighter superiority was being steadily eroded from Japan, so the lack of defensive armament and armor started to bite the Japanese hard in the butt and even an improved version called the B6N "Jill" made to keep the design relevant couldn't invert the tendency.
*'''Mitsubishi G4M "Betty"''': A Bomber commissioned by the navy that could launch torpedoes as well, filling a similar role to the American B-25. Absolutely absurd, these vehicles had 3700km range at the expense of armament, bomb bay doors, and self-sealing fuel tanks in order to maximize range. The theory was that the Zeros would cover them so that being shot down wouldn't be a problem, but the harsh reality is that if anything with more than four light mgs (or anything heavier like Ma Deuces or 20mm cannons) shot at it, they tended to explode into flame, much earning them the nickname "the Honorable One-Shot Lighter" among allied pilots. Later variants added improved protection and armament at the expense of range, something Japan was not worried about in the latter part of the war. There was even a limited production run that was used to ferry Ohka flying bombs to launch positions, but these sucked ass. Yamamoto infamously was shot down in one of these by USAAF [[P38 Lightning|P-38 fighters]], and you can still visit the wreckage in the jungle to this very day.

== Misc ==

== Wunderwaffen ==
Much like the Germans, the Japanese were trying to get their own nuclear weapons program going, though they didn’t make very much progress with it. In fact, when the Americans dropped their own atom bombs, the Japanese initially refused to believe they were real due to the sheer amount of resources needed to refine Uranium. The Japanese also had domestic copies of the Me-163 and Me-262 fighters as well, but lacked the means to put them into production to be able to affect the outcome of the war.

All that said, they also had some unique domestic programs:

* '''MXY-7 Ohka''': the infamous kamikaze airplane, as in being purposely built for the task. An Okha was basically an anti-ship missile... [[Grot Bommer|except is was piloted by a live human being instead of automated systems]]. A wooden airframe encompassing a rocket engine, a basic cockpit an a 1.200kg bomb, it could (and did) ruin the day of any ship it hit. It was mostly used during the battle for Okinawa (with some success), but they were extremely short-ranged (37km) and had to be dropped by Betty bombers... who were more often than not intercepted before they could launch the suicide plane. In typical Japanese [[irony]], 'Ohka' means 'cherry blossom petal', petal that can only fall down once it becomes separated from its tree... Yeah... Pretty poetic, if you can somehow accept the fact [[grimdark|''' there's a goddamn human being committing suicide to crash a 1,200kg bomb on target.''']]
* '''I-400 series''': a series of submarines that were designed as goddamn aircraft carriers. Each one could only carry about three floatplanes. Were deployed on missions but never actually got any use. Were captured and tested on by the US post war. Sunk in the 50s by the USN to prevent the Soviets possibly getting any ideas from the class.
* '''Fu-Go Balloon Bombs''': Very basic in concept, these were weather balloons carrying shrapnel and firebombs that would be released after a fixed period by a very rudimentary timer. Launched in Japan, they’d travel the jet stream to America and hopefully cause enough damage and mayhem to disrupt American offensive operations in the Pacific. Completely incapable of any targeting, a few civilians were killed and American authorities clamped down on reports to prevent panic amongst the populace. Ultimately, these were the first truly intercontinental weapons ever made, but with only 300 of 9,000 total balloons being confirmed to have survived the flight to the USA they were a total waste of limited time and resources, even considering how dirt-cheap and simple to produce they were. The balloon bombs did succeed in forcing the Americans to divert a tiny amount of effort to trying to track them and combat potential forest fires.
* '''Atomic Bomb Projects''': There were several projects for uranium enrichment. The Japanese had some good nuclear scientists, but ultimately the familiar limitations of limited industry and resources kept them from success. The Nagasaki group dropped a letter from Luis Alvarez to Ryokichi Sagane in the hope he could explain to the government what they were now facing, although the army didn't give it to him until after the war had ended.

* '''O-I Super Heavy Tank''': Much like its ally Nazi Germany, the Imperial Japanese Army did have plans and may have made a prototype for a Super Heavy Tank, the concept of which came to light after the defeat of the IJA at Khalkhin Gol. It was commissioned by Hideo Iwakuro and development was started by the Army Engineering Division and later resumed by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. It was to be multi-turret design like those experimented with in the inter-war years. The main armament was to be a type 92 105mm gun, with a type 1 47mm and three 7.7mm type 97 machine guns serving as a secondary in at least four other turrets. Armor was to be up to 200mm and was to be powered by the same engines used in the Type 5 Chi-Ri medium tank. The reason this is considered a wunderwaffen is due to the rather lack of a complete history and outlandishness of the design. Documentation does exists of how it was to be designed. A tank track is on display at the JGSDF fiji school. A prototype was rumored to be made but like with some treasure trains of Nazi Germany it may have been lost and scrapped to history. In the end it remains an obscure tank, with the documentation and history lost in the post-war.

== Other ==
*'''NIGHT VISION''': One of the more outstanding technological advancements that Japanese boasted was their rather impressive use of powerful binoculars, specifically on their naval vessels. In the interwar period, Japan had developed a superb optics industry, ranging from cutting edge photographic lenses to powerful long range sights. Most famous of these was the Nikko Nikon 120mm "Big Eye" binoculars. A tripod mounted system with enormous lenses designed to capture as much light as possible, it had the capability to see distant objects upwards of 20 miles away in low light conditions. The Japanese Navy used this capability to devastating effect in 1942 at the 1st Battle of Tsavo Sound, moving a cruiser squadron in radio silence and under cover of darkness, they snuck past the cordon of Allied ships guarding the perimeter of the Guadalcanal landing force, and ambushed the main body of American and British escorts, forcing them to flee and leave the Marines on Guadalcanal without most of their supplies for three months. However, due to the Japanese being overly cautious of a carrier counterattack the following day, they failed to press their advantage and withdrew, leaving the US fleet and Marines the fighting chance they needed to eventually recover.

* '''RADAR''': Yes, they had RADAR and this came a surprise to the allies in 1942 when they captured some Japanese RADAR sets. Not the best RADAR systems that were a few years behind what the Brits and Yanks were doing, but nevertheless functional. The problem was they didn't use them for fire control. Of Yamato's three sets, none of them was arranged for fire direction.
[[Category:History]]

Traitor Legion Loyalists

2023-05-23T19:20:12Z

2A02:1811:3B7F:B000:158C:123A:DD3D:73F9: /* Loyalist Legion Traitors */

{{Wh40k-stub}}
{{Spoilers}}
[[File:TOTALLY LOYAL AND NOT AT ALL HERETICAL.jpeg|500px|thumb|right|COMPLETELY 100% LOYAL.]]
{{topquote|Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil.|Exodus 23:2}}
{{topquote|The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son.|Ezekiel 18:20}}

'''Traitor Legion Loyalists''' are the rare few Space Marines who, despite hailing from the Traitor Legions, stayed loyal to the Emperor and the Imperium, proving that despite what some characters in 40K think, having [[geneseed]] from a suspect source is no sure indicator of bad character. They are a very rare group of individuals given the initial purges of Loyalists elements from the Traitor Legions at the [[Battle of Isstvan III]] or by internal purges such as those enacted by “The Brotherhood” in the Word Bearers. While most of the information below has just been hints for now, this is a matter that has been popping up every now and then for the last few years.

As it happens, many of these Traitor Legion Loyalists during the [[Horus Heresy]] who did not end up in the annals of history became [[Blackshield|Blackshields]], the precursor to the 40K equivalent of the same name where a Marine with no emblems or markings can petition to join with the [[Deathwatch]] on a permanent basis, no questions asked. The term "Blackshield" by itself leaves it open as to whether the individual Marine seeks to redeem himself OR his chapter if it went rogue or was destroyed. Although Blackshields are a rarity in 40K, there were enough in 30K for such a tradition to begin and survive to the present day in the Imperium. Many others were recruited into the [[Knights-Errant]], a special force whose members were handpicked by [[Malcador the Sigillite]] and would later develop into the [[Grey Knights]] and the [[Inquisition]].

Those groups with enough numbers, or perhaps ties to the right people, were able to pass themselves off as successors of other Chapters after the [[Second Founding]]. [[Blood Ravens|Or their founders purged and changed their own records, so that over time, no one within the Chapter knows who their true progenitor is ]](which can lead to some [[skub|fun times]] when an Inquisitor comes across evidence that it occurred).

Generic armies of them can be fielded in 30K with the Orphans of Betrayal [[Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k)#Rites_of_War|Rite of War]]. As is fitting for a rogue, largely unsupported force, the rite doesn't provide many bonuses unless you're fighting Traitor versions of the same Legion you're fielding.

==Known Loyalist Members of the Traitor Legions==
'''Note:''' Characters whose names are listed in ''italics'' have received rules in some form in FW's Horus Heresy releases for the 30k era. Additionally, Marines who died or went missing in action (without returning later during or after Horus Heresy) in the [[Great Crusade]], like [[Hastur Sejanus]] (whose death in fact would be the immediate catalyst for the treason of Horus), don't count as while they are all technically loyalists there was no meaningful distinction at the time.

* [[Death Guard]]
** ''[[Nathaniel Garro]]'' (became the first of the [[Knights-Errant]], first to bring word to the Imperium about the Horus Heresy)
** Andus Hakur
** Meric Voyen (former head Apothecary of 7th Great Company. Defected with Nathaniel Garro. Renounced his vows as an Astartes following 'The Flight of the Eisenstein', slain after being possessed by the Lord of the Flies)
** Huron-Fal (Venerable Dreadnought, chose to self-destruct rather than be killed on Isstvan III)
** Tollun Sendek (Slain by the Lord of the Flies on Luna)
** Ullis Temeter (Killed on Isstvan III by Huron-Fal's overloading reactor)
** Helig Gallor (Recruited into the Knights-Errant)
** Bajun Kyda (Recruited into the Knights-Errant. Killed at Proxima Majoris)
** ''[[Crysos Morturg]]'' (Technically died during the Battle of Isstvan III, but was rescued and rebuilt by Calleb Decima. He became a Blackshield thereafter, ended up surviving the entire Heresy, and was made Captain of the 108th Independent Company. He and his Company were eventually sent out to monitor and patrol the Ghoul Stars. Notably, this was over fifty years after the Heresy ended, implying at least some surviving Traitor Legion loyalists were utilized by the Imperium to form "Independent Companies" instead of Chapters. Strangely enough the planet they were stationed on became the homeworld of the [[Death Spectres]]. A [[Raven Guard]] successor. [[Raptors_(Chapter)| Though there is at least one other chapter]], who favors stealth combined with massed firepower. The 108th then possibly evolved into the [[Marines Malevolent]].)
** Erud Vahn (Became a Blackshield during the Horus Heresy)
** Juball (Died on Isstvan III)
** Solun Decius (Succumbed to Nurgle's Rot, becoming the daemonic entity calling itself "The Lord of the Flies")
* [[Emperor's Children]]
** ''[[Saul Tarvitz]]'' (Called "The First Loyalist" for being the first to recognize the traitor legions' betrayal and helping to send warning to the Imperium. Currently MIA, though the authors have stated he died during the last bombardment of Istvaan III)
** Callion Zaven (Recruited into the Knights-Errant. Killed on the ''Vengeful Spirit'')
** Argentus Kiron (Member of the Outcast Dead, slain on Terra)
** ''[[Ancient Rylanor]]'' (Contemptor Dreadnought, KIA post-Heresy, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2Hb4bngxJ8 nearly succeeded in killing Daemon Prince Fulgrim])
** Rakishio (KIA in Sol System by traitor White Scars who failed to infiltrate Terra)
** Solomon Demeter (Captain of 2nd Company, KIA on Isstvan III)
** Lord Commander Vespasian (murdered by Fulgrim)
** Lord Commander Abdemon (Member of the original 200 Emperor's Children Legion survivors -they had some form of non-Chaos related disaster- prior to reuniting with Fulgrim. Presumed slain on Isstvan III by traitor Astartes)
** Callion Zaven (a member of the Knights-Errant).
* [[Iron Warriors]]
** Warsmith [[Barabas Dantioch]] (14th Grand Company. Defied Horus' and Perturabo's orders to betray the Emperor. Led his garrison in the defense of his stronghold, the Schadenhold, during the the Great Siege of Lesser Damantyne. Recruited by the Ultramarines to '''FORTIFY''' [[Imperium Secundus]]. Activated the [[Pharos]] navigation/communication beacon under Guilliman's orders, unintentionally drawing the attention of the [[Tyranids]] to the Milky Way Galaxy. Sacrificed himself in a glorious battle to save the forces of [[Imperium Secundus]]. Posthumously declared a '''HERO OF THE IMPERIUM'''.)
** Iron Palatine Zygmund Tarrasch (14th Grand Company. Survived the Great Siege of Lesser Damantyne. Recruited by the Ultramarines to '''FORTIFY''' Imperium Secundus.)
** Chaplain Zhnev (14th Grand Company. Survived the Great Siege of Lesser Damantyne. Recruited by the Ultramarines to '''FORTIFY''' Imperium Secundus.)
** Sergeant Ingoldt (14th Grand Company. Survived the Great Siege of Lesser Damantyne. Recruited by the Ultramarines to '''FORTIFY''' Imperium Secundus.)
** Legionary Baubrista (14th Grand Company. Survived the Great Siege of Lesser Damantyne. Recruited by the Ultramarines to '''FORTIFY''' Imperium Secundus.)
** Legionary Toledo (14th Grand Company. Survived the Great Siege of Lesser Damantyne. Recruited by the Ultramarines to '''FORTIFY''' Imperium Secundus.)
** Venerable Vastopol (14th Grand Company. Venerable Dreadnought. Died at the end of the Great Siege of Lesser Damantyne)
** Ancient Khragan (14th Grand Company. Contemptor Dreadnought. Thought lost with dozens of others in a battle against the Hrud during the Great Crusade. Reappeared along with those dozens of others in a Loyalist Shattered Legion formation during the Constantinum Incursions of the Horus Heresy. Personally killed the traitors' leader.)
** ''Warsmith Kyr Vhalen'' (77th Grand Battalion. Led 2,800 loyalist Iron Warriors during the First Battle of Paramar. Survived. Never stopped cussing the traitor.)
** Veteran Sergeant Titus Avvon (77th Grand Battalion. Warden Officer of Castellum Stronghold Epsilon V. Survived.)
** Legionary Zhinnon (77th Grand Battalion, 5th Counter-Armour Wing, 30th Squad. Fought for the Loyalists in the First Battle of Paramar. Survived)
** ''Consul-Praevian [[Nârik Dreygur]]'' (114th Grand Battalion. Initially allied with the Traitors, he eventually defected to Cassian Dracos of the [[Salamanders (Chapter)|Salamanders]]. Led his Iron Warriors in a successful retaking of the planet of Mezoa from traitorous Alpha Legion forces.)
** Ancient Orgol (114th Grand Battalion. Deredeo Dreadnought. Answered Nârik Dreygur's call to arms to attack traitorous Alpha Legion.)
** Warsmith Auric Saxton (Remained fiercely loyal to the Emperor and killed the Lord Commander of the traitorous Emperor's Children during the Battle of the Harrow Ravening).
** Warsmith Annovuldi (Remained fiercely loyal to the Emperor and allied with the Raven Guard and helped take the planet Carandiru from the Traitor forces. Was later sent to Terra by Corvus Corax.)
** Tubal Cayne (A member of the Crusader Host. Recruited into the Knights-Errant. Killed while infiltrating the ''[[Vengeful Spirit]]'' during the Battle of Molech.)
* [[Luna Wolves]]
** ''[[Garviel Loken]]'' (Survived the battle of Isstvan III, recruited into the Knights-Errant, rules are for Luna Wolf version only.)
** [[Tarik Torgaddon]] (Killed on Isstvan III by Horus Aximand. Corpse reanimated to create the daemon Tormageddon, later slain by Garviel Loken during the Siege of Terra.)
** [[Iacton Qruze]] (Recruited into the Knights-Errant, later killed by Horus at Molech.)
** Severian (Recruited into the Knights-Errant. Eventually became Iapto, one of the founding Grey Knights.)
** [[Nero Vipus]] (Killed on Isstvan III)
** Vaddon (Killed on Isstvan III by Lucius)
** Unnamed Pre-Heresy Era Luna Wolf discovered in stasis on a [[Space Hulk]] and revived by the Flesh Tearers in M38 (Went berserk after getting an update on what happened before “borrowing” a warp jump capable vessel. Apparently now on a mission to personally put a boot in the ass of every traitorous Son of Horus he can find).
* [[World Eaters]]
** [[Macer Varren]] (Recruited into the Knights-Errant, killed on Terra by the Lord of Flies during the Battle of White Mountain)
** ''Endryd Haar'' (Became a Blackshield during the Horus Heresy and also rumored to have been a hybridized-legionnaire with ties to the [[Thunder Warriors]], died while [[Awesome|punching the shit out of Abaddon]] at the Siege of Terra)
** Tagore (Member of the Outcast Dead, slain on Terra)
** Subha (Member of the Outcast Dead, slain on Terra)
** Asubha (Member of the Outcast Dead, slain on Terra)
** Brother-Captain Skraal (Led a force of 20 loyalist World Eaters. Fought alongside the Space Wolves and Ultramarines against the Word Bearers to weaken their forces during the battle of Calth, slain on the ''Furious Abyss'')
** Ehrlen (Killed on Isstvan III)
** ''Shabran Darr'' (Killed on Isstvan III)
** Karnaugar (Killed by his gene-father on Isstvan III with Angron staying at his side as he died out of respect for giving Angron a wound that nearly killed him)
** Juljak Nul, "The Storm Walker" (killed on Isstvan III during a battle between the loyalist and traitor World Eaters, though not before killing several of the traitors.)
* [[Thousand Sons]]
** Atharva (Executed by Dorn on Terra, though either he or his shade appeared to Magnus after his defeat against Russ)
** Revuel Arvida (Fused with a fragment of Magnus and took the name Ianius, later the first Supreme Grand Master of the [[Grey Knights]])
** Omari Anat (captured by the [[Flesh Tearers]], stayed their captive to test whether or not [[Nassir Amit]] would go insane and kill him despite ample evidence of his innocence, fate unknown)
** Mhotep (Captain of the ''Waning Moon''. Fought alongside the Ultramarines against Word Bearers/Chaos to weaken their forces during the battle of Calth, slain on the ''Furious Abyss'')
** Izzakar Orr (part of the original defense of Prospero, he was slain by the Space Wolves in a warp maze. His soul later helped the Space Wolves in M42 find the maze and rescue 200 Space Wolves who had been trapped since the Burning of Prospero. After reuniting and resurrecting his body, he learned that the attack on Prospero had been ordered by the traitorous Warmaster [[Horus Lupercal]] and not [[Emperor|the Emperor of Mankind]]. He later closed the warp gate to the maze in order to prevent Magnus the Red from following the Space Wolves).
** Phosis T'Kar (part of the original defense of Prospero. Came to his senses and realized he had been warp corrupted during the battle. He then immediately stopped fighting and allowed Constantin Valdor to execute him rather than continue falling to warp mutations/corruption).
* [[Night Lords]]
** Fel Zharost (Former Chief Librarian, sent into exile after Nikaea. Recruited into the Knights-Errant. Possibly became Khyron, one of the founding Grey Knights)
** Kasati Nuon (Aided the Raven Guard in their guerrilla war against the Traitor Legions)
** Vilnius Malik (Abandoned the Night Lords after becoming disgusted with what they had become. Joined up with the loyalist [[Alpha Legion]] warband The REDACTED.)
**Kellendvar (Originally a traitor that attacked Sotha, during the battle he saved Ultramarine Captain Corvus, from his own Chaos-corrupted brother. He then surrendered himself to be executed, which he was swiftly granted.)
* [[Word Bearers]]
**Kaspian Hecht/Barthusa Narek (Initially drawn to the Knights-Errant. Went rogue and independent of all other factions. Helped Eldrad kill off the Cabal before returning to the Word Bearers secretly with plans to assassinate Lorgar with the Fulgurite leftover from the attempted assassination on Vulkan. Final fate unknown.)
**Volkhar Wreth (Member of the Crusader Host. Mortally wounded and forcibly bonded with a Daemon on Terra)
**[[The Anchorite]] (Disillusioned Word Bearer who surrendered on Calth and was spared by Guilliman. Entered contemplation while detained and re-embraced the [[Imperial Cult|Lectitio Divinitatus]], which he had memorized in his youth. Interred in an Contemptor Dreadnought after attempting suicide and secretly taught the contents of the book to a selected few in the Imperial Cult's Ecclesiarchy on Almace. Existence revealed during the [[Indomitus Crusade]] and somehow manifests powers of a Living Saint.)
* [[Alpha Legion]]
** Legate Chaitan (Leader of a small fleet of loyalist Alpha Legion vessels. KIA alongside his crew and fleet on the strike cruiser ''Sigma'' by Alpharius's manipulation of the ''Sisypheum'''s crew while the Primarch was disguised as [[Shadrak Meduson]])
** [[Occam the Untrue]] (Leader of the REDACTED warband. Considers his legion a [[Cypher|tool to test the Imperium]]. Currently interrogating a Deceiver shard bound in a Tesseract Labyrinth after a very costly battle in M42)
** First Captain Ingo Pech (Fought for the traitors for most of the Heresy, but came to realize that Horus winning would doom the galaxy. Sent to Terra during the Siege to activate hidden XX Legion assets to fight for the Emperor, but was psychically hijacked by Cyrene Valantion to aid in her plans. Left beneath the Palace with a mine clamped to his chest.)

==Loyalist Legion Traitors==
Traitors? In our Loyalist legions? It’s more likely than you think.

* [[Raven Guard]]
** Alastor Rushal, “The Raven”: Was captured, tortured, and brainwashed by the Night Lords. Had his tongue cut out. Had no official rank but was somehow able to rise to the Kyroptera, the informal council of captains of the Night Lords. Wielded a gravity hammer weapon, at least part of the time, which is usually a World Eaters weapon. Raven Guard in the Night Lords wielding a weapon usually used by World Eaters. [[Space Sharks|Hmmmm...]]
** Nathian: Left for dead on Istvaan V. Lorgar found him and converted him to Chaos. He later joined the Emperor’s Children to be a mad doctor.
** Some of the Terran-born Raven Guard who'd served with the Luna Wolves prior to Corax's rediscovery defected to the Warmaster's side since they felt more at home with Uncle Horus than with Papa Corax, who'd never liked them very much and had exiled most of them to distant crusade fleets. After the war they vanished and were never seen again...[[Carcharodons|supposedly]]...
* [[Dark Angels]].
** Luther. This is so complicated it's not worth getting into here, just look at the Dark Angels and [[Fallen Angels]] pages.
** Merir Astelan. One of the first 5,000 Space Marines. Claims to still be loyal to the Emperor, but seems to be mainly out for himself. Responsible for the whole "Lion el'Jonson was sitting out the Heresy to see who would win" meme. Part of one of the factions that formed in Caliban. Again, look at the Fallen Angels page for details.
**Vortigern. Defected to Horus and after Horus's death was promoted to the Ezekarion, the [[Black Legion]]'s high command.
* [[White Scars]]
** The Legion almost fell into a civil war until [[Jaghatai Khan]] intervened and showed them what the traitors were actually doing. Those who had gone too far were executed and the rest were sent on suicide missions as the Sagyar Mazan, the last of whom died trying to delay Mortarion long enough for him to get blown up by the overloading reactors on Jaghatai's flagship. Ironically, despite this near disaster, the Scars got off pretty lightly given that the stupid parts of the legion who would fall to Chaos lies were most of the casualties by the end of the Heresy. Others that were cut off joined up with the Night Lords during the [[Thramas Crusade]], but sacrificed themselves once they realized their allies were wanton psychopaths and because they were actually loyalists tricked by the Night Lords into believing the Dark Angels were traitors due to the First Legion's isolation, all died in the fighting attacking the Night Lords. One group who stayed loyal to Horus and avoided the almost civil war by immediately leaving almost made it to Terra, but got caught by Nathaniel Garro and Macer Varren and got butchered to the last. Also, the Khan was to fell to Chaos but someone switched his fate with Fulgrim's, with both the Emperor and Malcador surprised by this outcome as it was caused by [[Cegorach|an unknown third party]].
* [[Iron Hands]]
** A company of Iron Hands bearing mixed X and XVI Legion heraldry fought at the Battle of Mezoa, but whatever happened to them after that is unknown.
* [[Space Wolves]]
** ''Conquest'' mentions that there may have been an entire Great Company who turned traitor, unlikely as it seems.
* [[Ultramarines]]
** Yes, not even the Smurfs were immune. Consul-Chaplain Ankarion of the 547th Company fell to Chaos early in the Underworld War on Calth and led the Word Bearers in butchering 200,000 civilian refugees who had taken shelter in the Auroran arcology, along with the Ultramarines of his company. When the 4th Destroyer Company of the Nemesis Chapter came to retake the arcology, he skewered their captain on his ritual spear. Said captain dragged himself down the spear so he could stab Ankarion in the throat and trigger a melta bomb, killing them both.

==List of suspected chapters==
It is important to remember here that mere tactical or heraldic similarities are not enough of an indicator for claiming that a Chapter might have geneseed from one of the nine traitor Primarchs. The cultural influence from recruitment worlds combined with millenia of adaptation and evolution can result in Chapters adopting traits that might echo the matrial ways of the ancient Legiones Astartes, without them bearing any relation to them at all.

The telling signs one must be on the lookout for are first and foremost the "historical" ones, that is to say Chapters whose origins trough can be traced back to the first millenia of imperial history trough things like their deeds or their armory, and then everything that might be "genetic".
Because of the genetic link to their Primarchs, geneseed influences the behavior and mindset of a Space Marine. Chapter culture might affect the way in which it is expressed, but it will always manifest to some degree in some way shape or form.
For example, the [[Iron Warriors]] already had a martyr complex before the discovery of [[Perturabo]], as proven by their actions during the siege of Forge World Incaladion.

Without further ado, let's see what we can find, organised by likeliness;

'''All But Confirmed:'''

*'''[[Blood Ravens]]''' The only known copies of their lineage are currently sealed under the orders of the Ordo Malleus:
** ([[Thousand Sons]]) - All but confirmed. Links to the Thousand Sons Corvidae Cult, high number and heavy usage of Librarians (especially to look into the future to scry enemy's plans like the Corvidae Cult). Just prior to the Fall of Prospero, a psyker named Kallista Eris foresaw the future of the Thousand Sons Corvidae Cult, during which she all but states in incredibly on-the-nose dialogue they will become the Blood Ravens: "The Ravens. I see them too. The lost sons and a Raven of Blood. They cry out for salvation and knowledge, but it is denied!”
**([[Word Bearers]]) - Speculated, due to operating in Aurelia sub-sector and from the world Cyrene (names associated with the Word Bearers, and an area originally controlled by the Word Bearers during the Great Crusade), as well as a fanatical search for Knowledge (However this is also a trait of the Thousand Sons). Their warcry "Knowledge is power, guard it well", is a direct quote from the Word Bearer First Chaplain [[Erebus]] (However this was also a common saying of the Thousand Sons and spoken by the Thousand Sons Revuel Arvida). However, the Thousand Sons connection is so obvious that this connection is a long shot at best.
*'''[[Minotaurs]]''':
**(Old Lore) ([[World Eaters]]) - Speculated. Similar battle doctrine, known for being complete berzerkers in battle. However this maybe due to their chimeric geneseed just making them batshit insane.
**(Revamped Lore) ([[Iron Warriors]]) - All but confirmed. They maintain a similar battle doctrine that favours close combat but is now also focused on pragmatic, siege, and attrition warfare tactics (their special rule is a near exact match for the Horus Heresy Iron Warrior's signature special rules). Their Ancient Greek theme also matches up with the Iron Warriors' anatolian/eastern-byzantine/ottoman references, and their gene-seed is mentioned to have extremely high assimilation rates, just like the IVth Legion of old. They even have records of action dating back to M32. Horus Heresy Book 6 "Retirbution" also alludes to the Iron Warriors being the progeniotors of the Minotaurs, as there is described a special unit of Iron Warriors who use heavy hypnoindoctrination and specialized in Counter-Astartes tactics. Edwin Brown, a playtester for the [[Badab War]] books, has also stated that the Minotaurs use Iron Warriors gene-seed.
**Of note: the "new" lore alludes to the possibility of there having been two Chapters called the "Minotaurs", with one being more similar to the old lore descriptions, being part of the [[21st Founding|21st Cursed Founding]] of M36, and references to chimeric gene-seed. Presumably, the old lore Chapter had chimeric World Eater/someone else (possibly Iron Warriors) geneseed and their creation/extinction was to secretly legitimize the "original" Iron Warrior Minotaurs under the direct command of the [[High Lords of Terra]]. Or the Imperium's shitty record keeping, combined with the (Iron Warriors) Minotaur chapter being so clandestine, lead to a completely unrelated chapter getting the name "Minotaurs" without knowledge of the name having already been taken.
*'''[[Shadow Wolves]]''' ([[Luna Wolves]]) - Confirmed by creator, but in-canon explanations currently lacking. Despite not being Space Wolves successors (being listed as Imperial Fists), they use tons of Wolfish iconography [[Bjorn the Fell Handed#Stormfangs|(no, not '''that''' kind)]]. Author/creator of the chapter ([[Aaron Dembski-Bowden]]) confirms they were created to represent the concept of loyalist Luna Wolves as a tribute to his wife Katie (who is a fan of the Luna Wolves).
*'''[[Silver Skulls]]''' ([[Iron Warriors]]) - All but confirmed. Suspected to be from the gene-seed of the loyalist Iron Warriors, led by [[Barabas Dantioch]], who helped defend Ultramar. The Silver Skulls are well known for siege warfare (including a rank called "Siege Captain", a rank that had only seen use with the Iron Warriors), masters of building fortifications (their fortress monastery is said to have impressed Rogal Dorn himself), and their Chapter iconography/colors are near identical to pre-Heresy Iron Warriors. Their Chapter records are stated as "lost" so they do not officially know which legion they are founded from, despite being Second Founding. Their gene-seed records on Terra are also locked away beyond even Inquisitional authority. The author of the Silver Skulls series has said they are successors founded from Dantioch's garrison, and were adopted by the Ultramarines (thus making them a case of the ''Ultramarines Connection''). She has also said that their religious aspects are just due to the culture they are recruited from, and Silver Skulls from outside their main recruitment world find these traditions strange and backwards as well.
*'''[[Death Eagles]]''' ([[Emperor's Children]]) - All but confirmed (origin suspected due to records of a Loyalist Blackshield warband from the Emperor's Children's Death Eagles company during the Horus Heresy) while the Chapter's recorded actions stretch back as far as M32.

'''Extremely Likely:'''

*'''[[Marines Malevolent]]''' ([[Iron Warriors]]) - Speculated. similar behaviors to Iron Warriors, some similar iconography. Extremely pragmatic, consider one another disposable, complete disregard for causalities or collateral damage, an extreme disdain for weakness, a tendency to challenge other Chapters, and they are pretty entitled little bastards. Like the Minotaurs, they take the wargear of defeated Astartes foes as trophies. They basically are the Minotaurs, if the Minotaurs DIDN'T have the backing of the High Lords. Their veteran's markings are also identical to the Iron Warrior's signature yellow/black hazard stripes. Lastly, but most noteable, their emblem (a winged lightning bolt) was the original emblem used by the IVth Legion, before reuniting with Perturabo.
*'''[[Mortifactors]]''' ([[Death Guard]]) - Speculated. Similar color scheme and iconography to pre-Heresy Death Guard, specialize in night fighting like the Dusk Raiders, similar grim attitude, and have a preference for using Power Scythes (the signature weapon of the Death Guard). This Chapter is also obsessed with death. I mean really obsessed with it. Being a [[Second Founding]] Chapter, they could be a prime example of the ''Ultramarine Connection''.
*'''[[Iron Snakes]]''' ([[Alpha Legion]]) - Speculated, officially from [[Ultramarine]] stock. Use combat doctrines and show behaviors extremely similar to the [[Alpha Legion]]. Similar iconography (a single-headed snake instead of a three-headed hydra). The Iron Snakes also have unusually specific design similarities to said [[Alpha Legion]]. Such as their Chapter Master being [[Primarch|taller than usual for an Astartes]], [[Alpharius|conceals his face]], and has been known to [[Omegon|swap identities]]. They also separate their Chapter into independent cells, just like Alpha Legion harrows. Due to being [[Second Founding]], they are also likely an example of the ''Ultramarines Connection''.

'''Likely:'''

*'''[[Sons of the Phoenix]]''' ([[Emperor's Children]]) - Suspected. It's an open secret that [[Belisarius Cawl|Papa Cawl]] got a hold of uncorrupted III Legion gene-seed). They have similar iconography to the 3rd legion, and their name also possibly references Fulgrim, who was known as the Palatine Phoenix. Known for liking to put on a show when in combat. That being said, the creator of the chapter (Maxime Pastourel) stated that he intended them to be Imperial Fists successors and that the choice of colors was meant to give them an 'ecclesiarchical'. This could be a rare case where the obvious ressemblance is purely coincidental.
*'''[[Raptors (Chapter)]]''' ([[Night Lords]]) - Speculated, only rumored to be [[Raven Guard]]. Gene-seed more similar to Night Lords. While they suffer the pale skin/black eyes seen in both Raven Guard and Night Lords, unlike the Raven Guard but just like the Night Lords, they have fully functional Betcher's Glands.
*'''[[Mantis Warriors]]''' ([[Alpha Legion]]) - Speculative, officially from [[White Scars]] stock. Like the Alpha Legion they operated from a series of hidden bases spread across the sector of space they were guarding rather than having a single HQ. In-setting they're suspected to be descended from the White Scars, but the source making that claim is a in-setting book written M36 by a High Lord of Terra that has been edited multiple times since then by other High Lords and multiple Inquisitors. Their tactics are more reminicent of the Alpha Legion than the White Scars, with a focus on stealth, ambushes and the like. Their colours (green and yellow) match the Rogue Trader-era AL paintjob, and FW's book mention that the Alpha Legion have been seen fighting in green power armour. They maintain elite cadres of skilled marksmen who assassinate enemy leaders, rather like the 30K-era Headhunter Killteams of the Alpha Legion. Not to mention, the Alpha Legion fought the White Scars multiple times across the Heresy and FW's version of the [[Chondax]] campaign has several hundred White Scars on recon missions "disappear mysteriously". Finally, an alternative name for the Mantis Warriors is the "Mantis Legion".

'''Other Possiblities:'''

*'''[[Brotherhood of a Thousand]]''' ([[Thousand Sons]]) - Speculated. Minor Chapter with a tiny footnote implying heavy librarius and have a similar name. Use an "M" as their Chapter symbol, similarly to the heraldry of the Pre-Primarch era Thousand Sons.
*'''[[Red Scorpions]]''' ([[Emperor's Children]]) - Speculated. Have an obsession with the "perfection" of their gene-seed, to the point of being outright hostile to any they see as "imperfect". Said geneseed also happens to have a mutation rate inferior to even that of the Ultramarines and Dark Angels (purest among the loyalist legions), but the Scorpions refuse to surrender any samples to the Inquisition. There is also the fact that their armories are stacked with old-patterns of tech, such as Deimos-pattern predators, Proteus-pattern Land Raiders, and MKIV dreadnoughts; which unlike the Minotaurs, cannot be explained by High Lords favoritism. Unlike the Death Eagles or Carcharadons though, there are no records of them existing as a Blackshield force during the Heresy. The Chapter only enters Imperial records for the first time until M34, well after [[Black Templars|The Howling]], and the 4th [[Black Crusade]].
*'''[[Storm Wardens]]''' ([[World Eaters]]) - Speculated. Similar preferred battle doctrine and color scheme to pre-Heresy War Hounds (armored assaults combined with close-combat infantry, blue armor with white pauldrons) (or maybe just like most Ultramarines successors). Records of their origins have been "deliberately" lost or destroyed (like the Lost Legions'). Additionally their homeworld is sanctioned against contacting the rest of the Imperium (not simply purged like a Chaos hive would have been) and is basically sealed off from the outside world. Though they are frankly more likely to be Iron Hands (the previous token "Scottish chapter"; also previously named "Storm Walkers") successors due to their "special friendship" with the AdMech and fondness for hiding inside metal bawxes. Or, like, possibly ultramarines like basically any other blue boys who use standard marine battle tactics of mechanized infantry, but they may just be the "Ultramarine Connection" counterpart to the Emperor's Spears' actual celtic sons of Guilliman.
*'''[[Fire Angels]]''' ([[Word Bearers]]) - Speculated. Highly similar behaviors and doctrine. Strict following of whatever rules they are given? Check. Do they follow the Codex to the letter? Check. Highly religious? Double check. Don't like Guilliman? You can bet that's a check. The combination of all of these traits makes them essentially loyalist Word Bearers in all but name... but that's as far as the similarities go. They aren't the only highly religious Astartes Chapter, nor are they the only Chapter to adhere so strictly to the Codex (especially among Ultramarines), or the only "Ultramarines" successors to not like Guilliman (see the Mortifactors above). There isn't any evidence hinting that their behavior is the result of genetics and not the cultural changes undergone by the Imperium in 10 000 years, especially considering that they are a Chapter that wasn't founded until very recently. However, much like the Minotaurs, there are noted records hinting that [[Sable Swords|theirs is not the first incarnation]] of the Fire Angels Chapter.
*'''[[Covenant of Fire]]''' ([[Word Bearers]]) - Speculated. While officially listed as "Salamanders", the Covenant of Fire could be Word Bearers who follow the Promethean Cult instead of worshiping the Emperor or Chaos. Their iconography is very similar to the pre-Heresy XVII Legion, and their attitudes and behaviors are also extremely similar to the Word Bearers, most specifically their "Ashen Circle" units. Seems Cawl could have run out of fucks to give and is now just seeing how far he can push it before Guilliman catches on.
*'''[[Sons of Antaeus]]''' ([[Death Guard]]) - Speculated. Similar genetic traits included an unnatural hardy stock.
*'''[[Death Spectres]]''' ([[Death Guard]]) - Speculated. Similar name, as well as similar iconography to the pre-heresy Death Guard. Their homeworld of "Occuludas" is also the last known location of Crysos Morturg, a loyalist member of the Death Guard, as well as his "108th Independent Company". They also prefer using Power Scythes in combat, a preferred weapon of the Death Guard. Like the 108th Independent Company, the Death Spectres have been tasked with protecting the Imperium from threats originating from the nearby Ghoul Stars. There is a lesser known background book that makes them out to be Raven Guard, but much of the book has been ignored, contradicted, or outright retconned since then, so it's likely their chapter origins have been too.
*'''[[Shadow Haunters]]''' ([[Night Lords]]) - Speculated. While they are listed as Raven Guard from the 19th Founding, their name harkens back to the title taken by the Primarch of the Night Lords: Night Haunter. They specialize in terror tactics and they suffer from a geneflaw which causes them to have horrific visions, similar to the geneflaw suffered by the Night Lords. Granted, this information comes from the chapter's creator's self-made Index, and not from an officially published source.

'''Special Cases:'''

*'''[[Grey Knights]]''' (Founders were initially drawn from the [[Knights-Errant]]) - Outright stated, although only from their history. While several Astartes from Traitor Legions were among the founders of the Grey Knights, the Grey Knights believe their gene-seed is derived from the prime template of the Emperor, though whether that's true is a point of contention among the fanbase (despite it being repeatedly and clearly stated in any and all Grey Knight's fluff, it's still unclear just HOW Big E made it).
*'''[[Exorcists]]''' (Official Imperial Fist successors. Classified and speculated Successors of the [[Grey Knights]] in old lore...alternatively [[Word Bearers]]) - The link to the Grey Knights is iffy since only due to a small mention by an Inquisitor, and the Grey Knights are notoriously against ANYONE messing with their gene-seed. However, the Exorcists colors, scripture written on their armour, and nature as anti-[[demon]] specialists is almost 1 to 1 with Heresy-era [[Word Bearers]]. It is not completely impossible since they are from the [[13th Founding|Dark Founding]].
*'''[[Carcharodons]]''' (Traitor [[Raven Guard]]/[[Night Lords]]/[[World Eaters]]) - Speculated. Physical traits (black eyes, pale skin) similar to both Raven Guard and Night Lords. A gene scan of a dead Carcharadon revealed markers for Raven Guard. They also suffer a Battle Rage they called "The Blindness" which manifests exactly like the Raven Guard's "Ash Blindness". They often have a black and white morality, focus on shock and fear tactics combined with stealth, and their preferred tactic is to brutally and horrifically annihilate the target population (be they enemy or civilian), but leave a few survivors to go tell everyone else about what happened. Likewise, a Night Lord officer noted that the Carcharodons seems to be a mirror of their own legion, which the original XIXth legion were known to have been. These further indicate they are both of the XIXth Legion, specifically the Terran born XIXth Legion under the command of their original legion commander: Shade Lord "Arkhas Fal", as the Carcharodons share the title for their leader: "Shade Lord". Notably, the Ashen Claws (a nominally loyalist renegade warband form of a different group of Terran-born XIXth Legion who had been exiled by Corax before the Heresy) have flatly called the Carcharodons "traitor-born", as it was most likely Arkhas Fal's Predation Fleet that joined Horus's side in the war. At the very least, it was likely the Carcharadons are who joined Horus, as he gave them the name "Pale Nomads", a title now used by the chief librarian of the Carcharadons. Of course, there’s also the possibility that they could have a chimera geneseed…which may not have been chimeric originally.
*'''[[Ashen Claws]]''' (Night Lords/Renegade Raven Guard) - Note: While technically not an officially listed chapter, they have recently begun to fight for the Imperium again. Similar to the Carcharadons, they were founded by an exiled predation fleet of the Raven Guard. This time, the fleet lead by Shade Captain Nerat Kirine, the fleet exiled after the Battle of Gate-42. During the heresy, the fleet returned and declared they fought for neither Horus nor the Emperor. Instead they fought for themselves. They raided the Nostromo Sector, looting war gear as well as stealing the geneseed from the Night Lords they slew.
*'''[[Angry Marines]]''' ([[World Eaters]]) - They can say whatever they want about [[Rachnus Rageous|who they think their Primarch is]], but the Inquisition still suspects [[Angron]].

==The Ultramarine's Second Founding Connection and Lost Legion Loyalists==
The [[Ultramarines]] are confirmed to have harboured loyalist members of Traitor Legions after the Heresy, rebranding them as their own to obfuscate the newcomer's past (as for why they would do such a thing, [[Roboute Guilliman]] himself is characterized as someone who abhorred the waste of any human life, Astartes or otherwise). Guilliman also needed all the manpower he could get when he thought the rest of the Imperium was destroyed during the era of [[Imperium Secundus]], so giving even legionnaires from suspect sources a chance to prove themselves was a practical solution, for which in the end he was not disappointed. The penning of the Codex Astartes and the shattering of the Legions into individual Chapters would also have provided the perfect opportunity to separate the loyalist Traitor Legion elements back into separate formations (both to work more as they were intended, and to make it easier to exterminate any of them that decided to betray the Imperium at a later time). Furthermore, it is confirmed that after '''[REDACTED]''' that led to the deaths of the Missing Primarchs happened, some/most Astartes of the II and XI Legions were mind-wiped by Malcador the Sigilite into thinking they had always been part of the Ultramarines and Imperial Fists (or possibly other legions), as to not waste useful Astartes assets. This act was backed up by at least Dorn and Guilliman voluntarily agreeing to have their memories of what really happened suppressed beyond even a Primarch's ability to recall. So, the speculation regarding the [[Soul Drinkers]], [[Valedictors]], [[Rainbow Warriors]] and [[Storm Wardens]] (along with the tinfoil hat addition [[Black Templars]]) being lost legion loyalists might have some truth to it after all.

Of the Chapters listed above, the Chapters that are suspected of this connection are:

*'''[[Silver Skulls]]''' - [[Iron Warriors]]
*'''[[Mortifactors]]''' - [[Death Guard]]
*'''[[Iron Snakes]]''' - [[Alpha Legion]]

[[Category:Warhammer 40,000]][[Category:Imperial]][[Category:Space Marines]][[Category: Chaos]]

==Sources==

'''Forge World Horus Heresy Rulebooks'''
*''Betrayal''
*''Retribution''

'''Horus Heresy Novels'''
*''Flight of the Eisenstein''
*''Pharos''
*''Vengeful Spirit''
*''Corax''
** ''Weregeld''

'''Other'''
*How to Paint Space Marines, pg. 86
*Apocalypse by Josh Reynolds