2d4chan - User contributions [en]

Logos Historica Verita

2023-02-27T13:08:32Z

2A02:8071:4488:C8C0:0:0:0:6A8A: /* Notable Members of the Logos Historica Veritar */

{{topquote|History is a set of lies agreed upon.|Napoleon Bonaparte}}

The '''Logos Historica Verita''' (Literally ''Discourse of Historical Truth'') is a new Imperial organisation formed by [[Primarch]] [[Roboute Guilliman|Robo Jellyman]] after nearly suffering a brain aneurysm from trying to read the [[Fail|absolute dumpster fire]] that is, the Imperium's historical records. Members of the Logos Historica Verita are called '''Historitors'''.

==Overview==
In a nutshell, it is Guilliman's way of trying to unfuck the ongoing contradictory clusterfuck of Imperial record keeping.

On a more detailed explanation however, it is an organisation made for historians, by historians and of historians. After Big Bobby G awoke during the [[Gathering Storm]], he quickly realised that the Imperium's 10,000 year history was catalogued in an extremely unreliable, secretive, and often contradictory fashion. Guilliman closing up the Library of Ptolemy on [[Macragge]] has less to do with him being paranoid over [[Imperium Secundus]] and more to do with trying to pull the brakes to figure out what the hell is going on in the history department, contrary to popular belief.

Due to the fact that 10,000 years worth of history will eventually have entire ''millennia's'' worth of context be unceremoniously lost by [[Adeptus Administratum|Administratum]] red tape, '''[REDACTED]''' by [[Inquisition|Inquisitorial]] meddling or twisted by [[Ecclesiarchy|Ecclesiarchal]] decree, trying to figure out the accuracy of the Imperium's history is one giant lasagna of a shitshow. No surprise than, that the Logos was created as a means to rectify this problem and create the first true reliable history of the Imperium, which would then be incorporated into Guilliman's new and shiny '''Codex Imperialis''' <sup><small>TM</small></sup> book.

The Logos is made up of hundreds of skilled scholars and historians, hand-picked by Guilliman, and chosen for their more [[Heresy|liberal views of historiography]]. The Logos' objectives and policies stand in stark contrast to the [[Ordo Chronos]], who aren't big fans of them and has turned to violence in response to Guilliman's reformations given that, you know, the Inquisition's habit of censoring shit is not gonna go well with the organisation that is tasked with exploring sensitive topics for the wider public audience. Granted, the only thing the Ordo Chronos can do is grumble and make indirect threats, because [[Anal circumference|woe betide the dumbass who has to explain to]] [[Roboute Guilliman|a Primarch]] [[RAGE|on why they thought it was an excellent idea to murder one of ''HIS'' hand-picked historians.]] Other parts of the Inquisition also aren't too chill about the Logos given that they would eventually pry into sensitive Inquisitorial intel, whilst the Ecclesiarchy is quite miffed that the way the Historitors would portray aspects of the [[Imperial Cult]] would be less flattering as they originally make out to be. But again, nothing else they can really do unless they like to entertain the idea of entering a [[RIP AND TEAR|staring contest]] with the Big Blue himself.

As of M42, the Logos is estimated to operate around 500 men and women and a thousand support staff. So it is a pretty small but crucially important organisation.

[[Tl;dr]], it is the 42nd Millenium's more modern ''and'' useful reincarnation of the old [[Remembrancer|Remembrancer Order]].

==Notable Members of the Logos Historica Veritar==
*'''Solana''' - A member of the founding four and Martian Priestess, though not a Tech-Priestess, and one of the first three members directly chosen by Guilliman. Present when Cawl revealed [[Primaris_Space_Marines|the fruits of his Labour]]. Currently serving as a herald of the Logos to the [[Forge Worlds]] of the Imperium.
*'''Deven Mudire''' - A member of the founding four and former Aristocrat. Bit of a ponce and one of the first three members directly chosen by Guilliman. Present when Cawl revealed the fruits of his Labour. Currently assigned to Fleet Octus of the Indomitus Crusade
*'''Thiennes''' - One of the first three members directly chosen by Guilliman, and first member to be kicked out. What he exactly did to earn the Lord Commanders ire is not known. He did not stay long enough to be considered a member of the founding four and did not get to teach any other members.
*'''Fabian Guelphrain''' - A member of the founding four, former Terran Adept, and one of the recurring protagonists of the Dawn of Fire series. Fourth member to be directly chosen by Guilliman. One of the Terran Adepts that handled the many formal request for aid coming to Terra he made it a hobby of his to write down history, which is what made him interesting to the Avenging Son. Present when Cawl revealed the fruits of his Labour. Not bound to any Fleet Fabian was the first member to enter Imperium Nihilus where he rendezvoused with [[Marneus Calgar]]. Accompanied the Lord Macragge to Ultramar during the latter stages of the Plague War. On Macragge he was baited into discovering a document recounting the Events of Imperium Secundus by Rotigus. Only member of the Ordo to have a Space Marine bodyguard, partially because he seems to be a pawn of either the Emperor or the Chaos Gods and Guilliman wants to be sure he is eliminated should it become clear to be the latter.
*'''Theodore Viablo''' - A member of the founding four, from a low gravity world. Fifth member to be directly chosen by Guilliman. Not present when Cawl revealed the Primaris Marines. Only member of the founding four to remain with Fleet Primus of the Indomitus Crusade. Killed during the reintegration attempts of the Knight World of Kamidar.
*'''Yassilli Sulymanya''' - <s>[[Love Can Bloom|Guilliman's second waifu]]</s> Former Rogue Trader who had her ass saved by Guilliman before she got burned at the stake for her reprehensible atheism. Trained as a Historitor by Fabian Guelphrain. Notable as one of the few individuals Guilliman considers a friend and is thus allowed to adress him by his first Name and a copy of his personal Seal. Her attempt to shorten it to "Robu" was, however, not accepted. Provided the Avenging Son with a stasis sealed copy of the Lectitio Divinatus, after fighting the Inquisition for it. Currently on her way to deliver a message for Commander Dante that is important enough to be contained within an Annihilation Casque

{{Imperium}}

Angron

2023-02-23T07:45:27Z

2A02:8071:4488:C8C0:0:0:0:6A8A: /* 41st Millennium */

{{heresy}}
{{Cleanup}}
[[File:AngronArtPortrait.jpg|400px|right|thumb|Rare portrait of Angron. Strangely looking like he is holding in a giant fart.]]
{{Topquote|I-I am going to be a storm-a flame-<br>I need to fight whole armies alone;<br>I have ten hearts; I have a hundred arms;<br>I feel too strong to war with mortals-<br>[[Rip and tear|BRING ME GIANTS]]!|Edmond Rostand, ''Cyrano de Bergerac''}}
{{Topquote|I think... when one has been angry for a very long time one gets used to it. And it becomes comfortable, like... like old leather. And finally... it becomes so familiar that one can't ever remember feeling any other way.|[[Star Trek|Captain Jean-Luc Picard]], on a man who hated because he would not let himself grieve}}
{{Topquote|If the world hates you; keep in mind that it hated me first|John 15:18}}

His name is Angron (A.K.A. '''The Red Angel''', '''The Slave of Nuceria''', '''Lord of the Red Sands''', '''The Eater of Worlds''', '''The Gladiator King''', '''The Prince of Blood''', '''Broken One''' if you're Argel Tal, '''Angry Ron''', '''40Kratos''', '''Shithead''' if you're sergeant Gharte, '''That Goddamn Retard''' if you're [[Leman Russ]]). Cmon, do we really have to spell it out? While his name <s>may be</s> is clearly a play on the word "Anger", it is possible that his name is based on the Greek word ''Agrion'' which means "Wild" or even ''Agron'', the Gallic word for "slaughter" (which all pretty much suits him considering he's the angriest, wildest, slaughteringiest mother-fucking mother fucker in a long and extensive history of bipedal mother fuckers). Also, if you spell his name backwards it's Norgna, which has to count for something. Apparently the inspiration for his name was a corruption of the nickname a bouncer in Nottingham has: Angry Ron.
What we're trying to say is, Angron just might be the angriest and the most talented in manly face-to-face fighting son of a bitch in the galaxy. In fact, one time he was so angry about being angry all the time, that the part of him that made him angry exploded in his head, rendering him permanently angry (and also sexually impotent, but don't let him know that). And then there was that time he was kidnapped by the [[God-Emperor of Mankind|Emprah]], which didn't help his temper much, and gave him an excuse to fucking RAGE at his dad by joining up with [[Khorne]], Warhammer's God of Battle, War and [[Rage|RAAAAAAAAAAGE]]! Angron just so happens to be [[Primarch]] of the [[World eaters|World Eaters]] and [[Kharn|that swell guy]].

His revered exploits include slaughtering the entire population of a planet within a night; killing an entire contingent of Eldar warriors led by a Farseer when he was only a child; and leading a gladiator rebellion against their slavers and slaughtering 25 other armies sent against them, non-stop, until a huge one made up of seven armies came and fucked their shit up against a dirty rock <del>proving that a seven nation army could hold him back</del>. The Emperor saved him from dying there (but left all his buddies to die), which was a tremendous blow to his martial pride and among other things, eventually led him to [[Rage|RAAAAAAAAAAGE]] furiously against the Emperor, believing him a coward devoid of honor. Angron went on to become one of the first Primarchs to side with Horus during the heresy, and was turned into a monstrous, frothing demon-prince by his brother Lorgar. Eventually, Angron joined up with KHORNE, the aforementioned God of War, Murder, Killing, Bloodshed, Weeping Buttholes, Battle and [[Rage|RAAAAAAAAAAGE]].

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNkRBowsAmI Here is the theme song of this glorious bastard.]

==History==
===Early Life===
[[File:Past-Angron-art.jpg|300px|right|thumb|You'd be pissed off too if your dad didn't let you avenge your dog.]]
{{Topquote|I was born in blood, raised in darkness and I shall die free!|Angron, to the Nucerian High Riders and their armies}}
Angron has good reason to be ever-so-slightly miffed: his early life was one big bowl of shit after another. First he crash-landed on his new home [[Nuceria|world]] (because Khorne didn't give him a soft landing) and had a good chunk of his head torn off in the crash, after which he got jumped by the aforementioned Eldar, then (tired from the killing and the massive brain trauma --keep in mind he was like 6 hours old) got captured and sold into slavery by people with near-Imperial level technology before making him fight as a gladiator for their entertainment. He also appears to have been either the least intelligent of his brothers, or else that head injury he took while crashing did a number on his intellect. For Angron attempted to escape from his captors numerous times even before his implantation with the Nails but somehow was recaptured each time. Remember, these guys were just baseline humans with no outstanding tech aside from a few odds and ends like the Nails. Also keep in mind that more than a few of these attempts occurred when he was fully mature, and thus should have been leagues beyond what even a Custodes would be capable of in terms of physical and mental prowess. The fact that he somehow managed to ''fail'' in repeatedly attempting to escape from a bunch of normal humans is actually far more unbelievable than if he had succeeded.

A later retcon revealed he was a decent guy who loved his fellow gladiators, but after an incident where he refused to kill his adoptive father in the arenas, his masters proceeded to replace part of his brain with ARCHAEOTECH SHIT (originally this happened before he fully grew up) that drove him so mad that he murdered his dad regardless, cueing a massive bout of despair. The stuff they stuck in his head would later be called ''"The Butcher's Nails"'', and, though never fully understood (even after the Emprah's best techs took a look), they constantly applied pain to his brain and made it so the only time he could feel anything resembling happiness was while murdering shit. It should also be noted that they go from excruciating to normal, and ''do not'' [[Slaanesh|deal with the pleasure centers of the brain.]] In other words, this pertains to actual negative reinforcement in classical conditioning.

After years of being a slave, fighting through the gladiator pits and becoming the best of them, Angron eventually set up and led a rebellion, fighting to free his brother and sister gladiators. This would make him 40k's answer to Spartacus, the same way Curze is 40k Batman. He and the gladiators terrorized the planet's population for a while, burning down cities and generally making a mess of things. However, due undoubtedly in no small part to the Nails (and the high probability that Angron was a bit of an idiot anyway), he didn't attack the Nucerian ruling classes with anything approaching a coherent strategy. There was seemingly no plan, only wanton destruction. As a result, the rulers of the various parts of the planet sent their militaries to gang up on Angron's comparatively ragtag group of about 2000 and after a few years, Angron's force had been reduced to half and was surrounded by at least seven full scale armies. So he and his buddies were completely screwed, making Angron the only Primarch who failed to conquer his home planet, something that his Legion would end up being more than a little embarrassed by.

Around that time, the Emperor showed up, and hashed out a deal with the local planetary government in order to expedite Angron's capture and win over the planet without any further bloodshed, because there was no point in the Emperor helping his son win a (totally justified) war against a population that had already submitted to compliance. Of course, this deal required the Emperor to take Angron away from the only people who weren't shitty to him and leaving them all to die; but Big E didn't give a rat's ass about those fuckers (and they were all summarily executed, as you would expect in a slave rebellion). Naturally, he didn't tell Angron any of this, because <s>he couldn't give less of a shit</s> [[Aaron Dembski-Bowden]] wanted to make the Emperor look like an ass again. Daddy issues don't make for bad writing by themselves, but said good writing is harder to write without nuance and depth. Of course, the Emperor could have saved them all or simply kill the local slavers who were, despite compliance, flying in the face of the law of the Great Crusade, give Angron the planet as a recruiting world and take the slaves to his ship to be made into a loyal ass-wrecking rapetrain of AWESOME alongside all the Terran legionnaires. Buuuut we need our dose of our [[Edgy]] [[Grimdark]] here, right?

So long story short, the Emperor told Angron he was coming along on the Great Crusade, Angron told him that he would rather die alongside his fellow gladiators, and the Emperor beamed him up onto his ship and left all the other gladiators to die. On the ship, Angron completely lost his shit and started attacking everything around him, managing to kill one of the Custodes before Big E force gripped him into submission and basically told him to get over himself (AD-B, seriously fuck you). After this, Angron was apparently taken back to Terra to be examined by the Emperor and his best tech adepts in the hope of finding a way to fix Angron's mutilated brain.

Back on [[Terra]], the Big E summoned [[Arkhan Land]] to his labs, as he had some experience with devices like Butcher's Nails; Land had been the one to seal the Hexarchion Vaults on Mars, and had encountered more crudely built versions of the Nails there. As a mildly interesting sidenote, Land called the Butcher's Nails ''Cruciamen'', which is perhaps their Dark Age name. Anyway, the Emperor showed Angron to Land spread out with his skull hacked open & brain exposed on a surgery table, taking a good look at Angron's fucked-up skull and decided that he was a waste of time and effort, and arrived at the conclusion that even trying to remove them would likely kill him (reference "Betrayer"). The Mechanicus estimated that he wouldn't live long enough to see the end of the Great Crusade.

It is during this procedure that it is revealed just how completely the Nails destroyed Angron, and how thoroughly tortured he would be for the rest of his existence. According to the Emperor in conversation with Arkhan;

<blockquote>''"With the alterations made to the limbic lobe and insular cortex, the surgeons have impaired the Twelfth’s ability to regulate any emotion at all. Furthermore, they have rethreaded its capacity to take pleasure in anything but the sensation of anger. They are the only chemicals and electrical signals that flow freely through, and from, its brain. All else is either dulled to nothingness or rewired to inspire a supreme degree of agony. It is a testament to the durability of my primarch project that the Twelfth has managed to survive this long.

''"His own emotions cause him pain?"''

''"No, Arkhan. Everything. Everything causes it pain. Thinking. Feeling. Breathing. The only respite it has is in the rewired neurological pleasure it receives from the chemicals of anger and aggression."''</blockquote>

Aaand it gets worse. The Emperor then reveals a few moments later that Angron's limbic and insular lobes had been straight up removed and replaced with parts of the Nails. This essentially meant that Angron would not have been capable of feeling empathy or compassion, and it would have completely restructured his ability to link behaviors to outcomes (ie this behavior makes me feel good vs this behavior makes me feel bad). Even his sense of self awareness and IQ would have been affected, which would go far in explaining quite a lot of straight up retarded crap he would go on to do. So essentially the slave masters of Nuceria took away his compassion, his empathy, his emotional control, his intelligence, and his ability to learn or feel anything pleasant outside of aggression. Oh, and left him in constant agony whenever he wasn't angry. Scratch the Emperor being a dick for not removing the Nails, He was more of a dick for not just putting Angron down then and there (though the fact He refers to Angron only as "Twelfth" and "it" is shown the Emprah is not too hot on compassion, at least as far as Angron seems to be concerned). The most tragic part of it all was that apparently Angron was quite the bro-tier Primarch before the Nails were implanted. He even had the ability to empathically soothe the pain of others by taking it upon himself (almost certainly some latent psychic ability), and he very often did just that for his fellow slaves. So on top of everything else, the Nails completely destroyed Angron's personality, taking him from a potentially Vulkan level nice guy and lowering him to Perturabo levels of barbarity. To top it all off, the Nails had been designed for use on baseline humans. As a Primarch, Angron's brain was not only far more complex than that of an ordinary human, but had the capacity for wholescale regeneration. This would only cause him more problems however, as the damaged or missing parts of his brain attempted to regenerate around the Nails. It was believed that this process would eventually cause him to lose all ability to control himself, and that he would become little more than a rabid animal as some of his legionaries would later demonstrate. At that point, is was almost certain that he would manage to get himself killed in one way or another.

Considering that later during the Horus Heresy, '''Menes Kalliston''' of the [[Thousand Sons]] was fairly certain that their [[psyker]]-medics could figure out how to remove them from [[Khârn|a certain swell guy]], it is possible that the Emperor - being the most intelligent person in the [[Imperium]] and the most powerful psyker ever - ''<u>could</u>'' have achieved it if He put some resources into it (especially since at least one AdMech replaced everything, including his brain with machine parts); or it's equally likely the Thousand Son space marine was just stalling because he had an insane psycho-killer moments away from killing him breathing down his neck. It is however, far more likely that the Nails implanted into the World Eaters were not so difficult to remove as Angron's would have been. Entire vital parts of Angron's brain had been removed and replaced with the crude cybernetics of the Nails, whereas the World Eaters' Nails were knockoffs which were simply added on to their existing brain tissue. Because of Angron's brain being a half-cybernetic mess, both the Emperor and Arkhan believed that the Nails were, ironically, the only reason Angron was still alive. In fact, the Emperor admitted to Land that he ''could'' remove the Nails under normal circumstances. However, as previously stated, parts of Angron's mutilated brain had both been completely replaced by the Nails and had regenerated around the Nails. If they were removed, Angron's brain would almost certainly have simply ceased to function. Additionally, attempting to replace parts of a Primarch is almost certainly a borderline-impossible task, particularly if that part is a brain. The Primarchs were not just flesh and blood, but creatures of the warp incarnated by the Emperor's genecraft. Whatever the Emperor did to create them, He clearly could not just do it on a whim as He could with Custodes or Astartes. There were only ever 20 ([[Omegon|21]]) of them and even when two were erased from history mid-Crusade, they were not replaced. The Emperor also never seemed to consider the possibility of making more of them after the initial scattering when they were presumed dead, despite the massive blow that killing all 20 Primarchs would have dealt to his plans.

Regardless however, Arkhan described the Emperor as being "inhumanly toneless" when speaking of Angron, and as being "passionlessly interested" in the surgical nightmare that Angron had become. Whether this is due to Him genuinely not caring or simply being too far beyond Arkhan for His attitude to be understood properly is up for debate. Rather strangely, the Emperor appeared to have been unusually callous when it came to Angron in particular, as even Primarchs like Konrad Curze, Perturabo and Mortarion were shown at least ''some'' level of love and interest from Him. However Angron, for whatever reason, was disregarded almost entirely. Regarding this anomaly, it is worth noting that Angron was the only Primarch who did not end up ruling his native planet. The other Primarchs either conquered theirs or used their charisma and intelligence to work their way up the hierarchy of whatever planet they landed on (or both). Angron failed to do either, and was on the verge of being slaughtered along with his army when the Emperor came for him. Perhaps this failure is why the Emperor seemed so uniquely disinterested in him. It is also entirely possible that the Emperor simply wrote Angron off after realizing that there was nothing he could feasibly do to help him. All the previously mentioned Primarchs were damaged goods in one way or another, but they were all at least physically and mentally functional, whereas Angron simply was not. Not only that, but he was the only Primarch to ''reject'' the Emperor's recruitment efforts outright. This seemingly did not please Big E overmuch, as after Angron had been teleported to the Emperor's flagship and killed the Custode, he said to the Emperor that he was now nothing but a ghost without his comrades. The Emperor simply responded that a ghost would suffice. Cold.

As it is, the Emperor was told that Angron would likely not see the the end of the crusade. At that point The Emperor probably decided "this is a sunk cost" and wrote Angron off. An so he did nothing to mitigate the effects, do nothing to change how much Angron hated him, and throw him into warzones after giving him a massive force and assumed that it would never come back to haunt him, after all Angron was going to be dead before the End of it, may as well get some use out of him. Could He have saved Angron? Perhaps, should he have the occasion to put his entire undivided attention to it. But with Him busy with the demands of the Imperium, powering the [[Astronomican]] and trying to get the Human Webway online the Emperor seemingly did not want to sink the extra time and resources into saving one of His Primarchs.

===Great Crusade===
[[File:Preheresy-world-eaters.jpg|300px|thumb|right|Angron back when the Great Crusade was still a thing. Along with [[Kharn|that swell guy]] on his right and [[Lotara Sarrin|the angriest, most heterosexual woman in existence]] on his left.]]
{{Topquote|You kept that mule Kor Phaeron. Russ kept his kin-friends. The Lion kept Luther. Humans - brothers and foster fathers - saved and raised into Legion ranks. But not me. Not Angron, no. Did the Emperor teleport his gold-wrapped Custodians down to help me and my army? No. Did he free the War Hounds and order them to battle, fight alongside me? No. Did he save my brothers and sisters the way he spared the Lion’s closest kin? No, no, and no. No mercy for Angron. Angron the Oathbreaker. Angron the Betrayer.| Angron explains his anger towards the Emperor to Lorgar, during one of his more calm moments.}}

Either way, when Angron was introduced to his legion he was inconsolable. He ended up hacking apart the legion captains until Khârn (who was actually much further down the list of command, having risen up the ladder thanks to several of his superiors' untimely ends) managed to talk some sense into his father. Though bearing in mind the Emperor had already let [[Perturabo]] dispassionately decimate 10% of an ''entire legion'', Angron killing some captains in an emotional meltdown is small potatoes.

Anyway, [[Kharn]] successfully talks some sense into him, and Angron renamed his legion ''World Eaters'', a name you might recognize translates to ''fucking savage'' in the common tongue. Angron's old army of gladiators whom he'd led to freedom and been denied death alongside them was known as "the eaters of cities" on [[Nuceria]]. So, as Dreagher, a Terran-born War Hounds legionary who served as Captain of the Legion's 9th Company, described it: ''from then on, they would no longer be the War Hounds, but Angron's "eaters of worlds"''.

Angron then replicated the Butcher's Nails technology on his legionaries, despite the Empy's warnings and how much he hated the source of the Nails, his old masters - <s> which adds a little hypocritical spice to his complaints about how the Nails ruined his life, given that he did the same thing to other people for no fucking reason when given the chance. Perhaps Angron wanted his sons to feel the same pain he experienced since he would never be able to remove the goddamn thing from his brain and it pissed him off that his own flesh and blood did not suffer as he did.</s> More likely he was desperately trying to emulate his blood brothers and sisters in the pits since they were the only ones to give a shit (plus Lorgar). Even in spite of being the first legionary to GIT SOME, [[Kharn|that swell guy]] became Angron's 'cool headed' equerry. Ironic.

The Nails also negatively interacted with psykers, killing Librarians who tried to get them installed (blowing holes in spaceships and taking down entire squads of space marines in the process as their altered brain chemistry made it impossible for them to control their abilities anymore). Also merely being near a psyker made other Legionaries feel... ''uncomfortable'' (described as ''ticking'' by Kharn). Angron personally took this to eleven, hating psykers for the additional pain they brought - with the strange exception of Lorgar & the Emperor, who seemed not to trigger that effect. Still, the whole Butcher's Nails thing is actually quite tragic (could the fact that even being psykers caused pain to everyone implanted with the nails indicate that they were not just archeotech, but technology corrupted by Khorne who hates psykers? And even the daemon primarch still has them implanted...all the implications). In "Betrayer" Argel Tal asks Kharn why the World Eaters allowed themselves to be mutilated so, to which Kharn replies that they thought it would bring them closer to their father. Argel Tal continues asking if it worked, and Kharn sadly mutters to himself "no, it didn't". So, before Erebus made sure that Kharn would become the RAAAAAAGE train we know in 40k by killing Argel Tal (in the same novel), because - as Erebus put it - his damned humanity would have spared Kharn this fate (because becoming a berzerk psychopathic killer is so much more awesome than staying sane) he appears to be regretting this decision - at least at this point.
[[File:World Eaters.jpg|400px|thumb|right|Angron and his World Eaters, pre-heresy and pre-[[daemon prince]] in a rare state of tranquility standing on top of [[grimdark|a pile made of snow and dead bodies]]. It's hard to calm down when there's nails in your brain.]]

During the Great Crusade, the World Eaters were known as the Imperium's butcher force. Their arrival or even just the threat of their arrival in a system was enough to make non-compliant Imperial worlds surrender, lest they be completely and utterly be butchered by the Red Angel and his sons - which only made it easier for the World Eaters to butcher them. They were typically unleashed in situations where the Imperium really didn't care about collateral damage. For where the Space Wolves and Dark Angels, the other two extermination legions of the Imperium, could be controlled, the World Eaters simply could not be. Angron ordered his sons to complete every single conquest and compliance action in thirty-one hours, since he and his gladiator army had once destroyed an entire city on Nuceria in the same span of time. When and if they failed, he mocked them for being inadequate and ordered them to [[Perturabo|decimate themselves]], it apparently not having occurred to him that it's a little harder to take down an entire planet than it is one city, even if you are a Space Marine legion (remember, not the brightest of his brothers). Things were getting so bad that some of the World Eaters' senior officers were considering going to the Emperor for help, at least until the Nails became a thing and they stopped caring about anything beyond RIP AND TEAR. One of them even talked back to Angron on the subject, which caused him to RAEG the fuck out and start killing his own sons again until some of the Librarians knocked him out.

He also had a run in with [[Leman Russ]] at some point, just after the XII Legion started getting their brains Nailed. Russ came to Angron after having heard reports that the World Eaters were increasingly just bathing in blood, instead of bringing worlds to compliance. Angron wasn't as brain-damaged as he would be later, so he asked if Russ had come on order of the Emperor. Russ grudgingly had to admit he wasn't; this wasn't an execution ordered by the Emperor (yet) and he privately didn't want it to become one in the future. So he went on saying that implanting Angron's legionaries with the Nails had to stop and that they'd be brought to Terra so a way of removing them could be devised (so he basically told Angron to sort his shit out and stop mutilating his sons). But we all know how good Russ is with people and generally <s>just liked throwing his weight around</s>. In more seriousness, this is one of the cases where Russ really, genuinely wanted to help one of his brothers, having had his own bouts with [[rage|irresistible murderous intent]] to deal with. Additionally, it is heavily implied that the two missing Primarchs met their end at Russ's hands on orders from the Emperor. Russ was not a fan of his role as being the Emperor's personal Judge Dredd as would later be demonstrated by the fact that he pleaded Lorgar's case (of all people) to the Emperor when He was considering 86ing the Word Bearers. Russ's approach sadly [[fail|wasn't well thought out]]. Though to be fair Angron wasn't exactly diplomatic either, telling Russ that the Nails were the only thing that kept him going, that the EMPRA was just another slaver (and that bringing "compliance" to worlds was just a way of candycoating enslaving worlds which merely had wished to be left alone), and that without the Nails he might go to Big.E and chop "the slaving bastard's" head off. Ironically enough Angron had a solid point with the former argument, but the very suggestion of turning against Emps basically made Russ [[rage|lose what remained of his cool on the spot]] with the result one would expect.
[[File:Angron, lord of the locker room.jpg|thumb|right|A Remembrancer's sketch of the duel between Angron and Leman Russ.]]

There was a brief skirmish between the two Legions (an event which would come to be known as the "Night of the Wolf") where Angron fought Leman Russ in personal combat. [[Rape|He made him his personal bitch]] until he was outmaneuvered by the Space Wolves troops and surrounded, isolated from his World Eaters who were just like their father putting up one hell of a fight and hurt on the Wolves but being slowly separated and isolated from each other. Russ then tried to make his point a second time; that Angron's berserker rage made him and his Legion lose sight of the larger tactical and strategic objectives and that Russ had deliberately lured him into a position where he could be gunned down with a snap of Russ fingers. Angron refused to acknowledge his losing position since he was the one holding the weapon at his brother's throat and that killing EVERYONE should be the only objective anyway. Russ might be very well holding the proverbial gun to his temple, but it was only worth anything if he was willing to pull the trigger. Which at that point Russ wasn't, so Angron completely ignored him. Yet, surprisingly, Angron did not press his attack either and both Primarchs separated and went their own way. But, as time would show, the nails had a degrading effect on Angron's ability to hold back and remain coherent, so maybe that's your answer right there.

Angron was certain of his victory that day and didn't give the incident any more thought, the Nails stayed with him and his Legion. In the end, though, Leman Russ was right: Angron's failure to learn and control his murderous rage would be amply demonstrated and only become worse with time. At the tail end of the Great Crusade when he butchered a whole city which had just surrendered, on Isstvan III when he sabotaged Horus' clean [[Exterminatus]] by going down to rip the loyalists apart personally, and on Nuceria where he ordered every living being killed. But what’s truly sad is that Lorgar actually did seemingly succeed where Russ had failed in teaching the lesson of the Night of the Wolf years later. Weirdly, he did this by simply telling Angron in no uncertain terms that Russ had won and why, and for whatever reason Angron's previous retardation dawned on him this time. In the case of Lorgar's explanation, not being in the middle of a fight to the death (at least as far as Agron was concerned) probably helped with regard to Angron's perceptiveness (fewer MURDERMURDERKILLKILL impulses from the Nails). Additionally, on their way to Nuceria during Angron’s last weeks as a human, he actually seemed to be trying to open himself up a little more to his legion by joining them in watching pit fights and hanging out with them during feasts, all of which was rendered too little too late by what went down when they reached their destination.

===Horus Heresy===
[[File:Daemon-Angron HHST.png|400px|thumb|right|Angron during the [[Siege of Terra]], about to give the defenders a very bad day]]
When Horus decided to rebel, Angron was one of the initial Primarchs to join him, along with Fulgrim and Mortarion. Why is not particularly hard to guess; he already hated the Emperor's guts like practically no other Primarch (with the possible exception of Curze, though even he managed to come to terms before his death with his father), and considered the Crusade to be little better than a galaxy-spanning slavery endeavor. How this concern jives with him being one of the Crusade's most prominent butchers is somewhat strange but his brain probably resembled a scrambled egg more than anything else at this point. A little cognitive dissonance was the absolute least of his problems.

On that note, Angron kicked off his contribution to the Heresy in a characteristically retarded fashion. When the firestorm on Isstvan died down, it became apparent that large numbers of Loyalists had survived. Said survivors immediately hit the vox-casters and began demanding answers/hurling insults up at the orbiting fleet, outraged and grief stricken that they had been betrayed by their own Primarchs. Horus disregarded this and prepared to initiate a second virus bombing. Angron however, was not quite so thick skinned. Hearing the howled insults of his own Loyalist World Eaters (which more than likely included some cutting one-liners and yo-dead-gladiator-crew jokes), Angron flew into a rage and deployed onto the planet his legion. When he learned of this, Horus was so furious that he seriously considered proceeding with the virus bombing regardless of Angron's presence planetside. However the Warmaster then took a few moments to collect himself and attempted to salvage what was supposed to have been a simple Exterminatus. In an adorable attempt to give the situation a silver lining, he reasoned that if he backed Angron's ground assault, his troops would get some experience fighting other Astartes. He also hoped that by giving Angron's landing his blessing, Angron would see that Horus was willing to give him freedoms that the Emperor had not. Finally, the World Eater's fleet elements were still present in orbit and manned, and killing their Primarch probably wouldn't have gone over too well with most of them. With about a third of each of the Traitor legions' Astartes having already remained loyal, Horus was in no position to have the remaining two thirds of the World Eaters turn against him. Sadly for Horus, Angron's decision ended up being one of the biggest mistakes of the heresy. Due to a number of unforced errors on the part of several Traitor commanders, and a mindblowing amount of grit on the part of the Loyalists, the Traitors ended up losing over half of their attacking force over a period of 3 months. To add insult to injury, Horus eventually decided that he was losing too many assets trying to break the Loyalists on the ground. Though the Loyalist commanders had mostly been killed by that point in the campaign, Horus had quite [[Dropsite Massacre|a number of other things that he needed to be getting on with]]. So he had Angron physically wrestled back up into orbit (as Angron wouldn't leave any other way), and used his fleet to glass the entire planet's surface.

Angron was much more handy on Isstvan V, wreaking all sorts of carnage in the Dropsite Massacre. Ironically his presence there hardly mattered considering how thoroughly boned the Loyalists had been to begin with, but Horus surely appreciated having such a supremely capable beat-stick to hit his foes with. When Horus and the other Traitor Primarchs departed, Angron stayed behind to hunt down the surviving Raven Guard who'd escaped with Corax. Despite the Raven Guard's supreme sneakiness, they eventually ran out of places to run and hide, and Angron was only hours away from finding and butchering the lot of them. Fortunately for the beleaguered [[meme|birbs]], a group of Raven Guard reserves rocked up from Deliverance due to warp phuckery and managed to rescue Corax and most of his men, leaving Angron even more beside himself with fury than usual.

Lorgar then roped Angron into his Shadow Crusade, systematically butchering worlds across Ultramar to invoke the Ruinstorm. Initially, this was a campaign with mixed success: the two Legions nearly fought in the void before an Eldar fleet tried to destroy Angron, and the World Eaters wiped out several worlds which Lorgar had wanted to skip. The Word Bearers were nearly driven to despair by the World Eaters' degradation, and Lorgar began to worry that Angron couldn't see how he was degenerating - and there was only one way that could end. Still, Lorgar wanted to save Angron, although in his case "save" meant "transfigure into a daemon Primarch without asking". Angron was, according to Horus and Lorgar, the only Primarch besides Horus himself that could potentially be able to successfully take on Sanguinius in full rage mode (though Russ and The Lion would probably give them a run for their money if fighting to kill and judging from recent lore, Sanguinius would/did wipe the floor with him), which at that point was basically the only use Horus had for him. To do that, Lorgar led Angron back to his shitty home planet [[Nuceria]]. There, Angron returned to the site of his followers' final battle, now little more than an open-air graveyard filled with the bones of his compatriots. This caused Angron to fall into a deep depression, which only lasted until he had the misfortune to be told he had fled that final battle. Needless to say, hearing this caused him to go completely berserk, and he ordered his legion to slaughter every fucking thing on the planet faster than an [[Exterminatus|inquisitorial cyclonic torpedo bombardment]].

The arrival of Guilliman's forces delayed its inevitable doom for a little while, and Angron had an epic showdown with [[Roboute Guilliman]] when he helped [[Lorgar]] in fighting big boy blue. Guilliman called Angron out to which the Red Angel replied as follows:

<blockquote>''"What would you know of struggle, Perfect Son? When have you fought against the mutilation of your mind? When have you had to do anything more than tally compliances and polish your armour?" [...] "The people of your world named you Great One. The people of mine called me Slave. Which one of us landed on a paradise of civilization to be raised by a foster father, Roboute? Which one of us was given armies to lead after training in the halls of the Macraggian high-riders? Which one of us inherited a strong, cultured kingdom? And which one of us had to rise up against a kingdom with nothing but a horde of starving slaves? Which one of us was a child enslaved on a world of monsters, with his brain cut up by carving knives? Listen to your blue-clad wretches yelling of courage and honour, courage and honour, courage and honour. Do you even know the meaning of those words? Courage is fighting the kingdom which enslaves you, no matter that their armies outnumber yours by ten-thousand to one. You know nothing of courage. Honour is resisting a tyrant when all others suckle and grow fat on the hypocrisy he feeds them. You know nothing of honour."''</blockquote>

Guilliman ended up getting beaten so badly he had to crawl away on hands and knees (though to be fair to him he put up one hell of a fight, especially considering that half his face was missing), but not before throwing back a pretty scathing retort of his own:

<blockquote>''"You’re still a slave, Angron. Enslaved by your past, blind to the future. Too hateful to learn. Too spiteful to prosper."''</blockquote>

The irony is Angron was right all along about Emperor being a dick, as Roboute realized on Terra ten thousand years later. But in all seriousness, both of them had a point. True, Guilliman had it comparatively easy and could have turned out massively different had his life not been so cushy. But Angron's rage over ''his'' admittedly-shitty life, worsened by his unwillingness to move on from the loss of his old comrades or accept his Legion as being his new family and compounded further still by not even trying to rise above his upbringing, had consumed his soul and didn't exactly let him off the hook for turning his entire legion into murder machines despite constantly blaming the Butcher's Nails for ruining his life.

Additionally, Angron of all people attempting to lecture anyone about the concept of honor is hypocrisy of the highest form. Even Konrad Curze, arguably the most terrifyingly barbaric Primarch, had a logical reason behind his brutality before he completely lost his mind. Angron never had a reason for killing, and he never needed one. He spilt blood just for the sake of it, annihilating entire planetary systems simply for the lulz. Whatever honor Angron once might have had, he had tossed it aside long ago in the name of satiating his hatred. At the time of his confrontation with Guilliman, he was little more than a rabid dog; his brains in the final stages of degradation via the Nails. He was essentially already a Khorne devotee in all but name and aspect; the sick daemon form he would soon receive was just an aesthetic cherry on top.

What made it worse was that the Nails themselves, as it turned out, could actually be overcome. As demonstrated by Arrian Zorzi, a renegade WE Apothecary who threw his lot in with [[Fabius Bile]] and eventually became his 2nd in command of [[The Consortium (Warhammer 40,000)|The Consortium]], and who likes (evil) gardening: a highly disciplined mind could control the aggression of the Nails. Which meant that, in yet another tragic twist of irony, Angron might have been able to save himself if he had simply not given over so completely to despair and spite. On the other hand, the cruder copy implanted in World Eaters legionnaires might be easier to overcome than the genuine article, and Zorzi is (so far) a unique case.

Furthermore, during their duel Guilliman shattered one of the skulls of Angron's rebel followers that he had carried with him (and whom he had promised to die alongside with... until the EMPRA abducted him. Angron himself said to Lorgar in "Betrayer" that he died on Nuceria), which obviously drove Angron to an entire new level of despair, allowing for Lorgar to capitalize on that emotion to fuel Angron's ascension into a daemon primarch. There were even 19 World Eater librarians, that had tried to prevent their primarch's ascension forming a gestalt warhound, pulling Angron's soul from one end, while Lorgar as well as some daemons pulled at it from the other, like children fighting over a doll. In the end, Lorgar - being the more powerful psyker - defeated the Librarians, and turned Angron into the Daemon Primarch we all know and love; his first act upon ascension was to immediately slaughter the Librarians. Guilliman ended up suffering a grievous wound, but escaped the planet, which was rendered devoid of all life by the World Eaters, and had its records erased by the Imperium of Man.

It should also be noted that one or two battles beforehand a Warhound Scout Titan tried to step on Lorgar after the Aurelian had taken two discharges of the the titan's main plasma weapon and was badly hurt (to the point of almost being mortally wounded) in the process. Angron stepped in to save his brother, catching the titan's foot and setting a new world record in squat weightlifting, keeping the titans weight suspended above himself through his sheer strength and RAGE, enabling Lorgar - who was almost dead at this point - to escape (meanwhile Ferrus Manus could punch THROUGH REAVERS and doubtless would have found this adorable). And this was after digging his way up through 200+ feet of solid debris, after being warned by WE Librarians he had been digging 'downwards', and with Lorgar teleporting from orbit to help excavating the XIIth Primarch (while Lorgar simultaneously destroyed several Ultramarine Thunderhawks with telekinetically hurled building debris which Angron had been buried under). Of course, after this the relationship between the two primarchs became pretty remarkable, and Lorgar ended up repaying the favor by arranging for Angron's ascension to daemonhood during their fight with Guilliman. At first Lorgar thought that Guilliman was ruining the "song" and finally understood that Guilliman had never hated or looked down on him until the Heresy (and the destruction of Calth) - actually distracting Lorgar for a moment as he realized that he had misunderstood his brother all along - At the end though, when Guilliman was about to gain the upper hand Angron emerged and engaged the XIII Primarch. At this very moment (topped off by Guilliman stepping on one of the aforementioned skulls) the "song" fell back in tune, and Lorgar could finish the incantation.

After this, the World Eaters ''somehow'' managed to get Angron back aboard his flagship, but were at a bit of a loss as to what to do with him afterwards. Obviously having a blood crazed Daemon Primarch living in one's basement was not exactly ideal even for the World Eaters. So initially they attempted to restrain Angron, but there was literally nothing they could do to keep him contained. Any cell block or restraining device they used on him he simply turned to scrap the instant it started annoying him. And yet, Angron never once actually attempted to leave the part of the ship in which he'd made his lair. He had developed crippling bipolar tendencies, and where his manic phase embodied the champion of raw murder we all know and love, his depressive phase was so utterly ''dead inside'' it makes [[Isha]] look cheery in comparison. He spent most of his free time cowering in a corner, calling out for the Emperor or just crying himself to sleep. This only made the World Eaters ''more'' terrified of him, as he could rampage through the ship at a moment's notice and they wouldn't be able to stop him. Only Kharn was able (or willing) to talk to Angron, and even Kharn knew he was risking death each time he did so; it would literally only depend on whether or not he caught Angron in a bad mood.

Kharn's conversations with Angron revealed yet another sad development for the Primarch, which was that becoming a daemon had caused him to develop a sort of dementia. He had to be verbally prodded by Kharn to remember certain places, people, and events, and Kharn was not always successful in doing so. Even his past as a gladiator or his adoptive father were hit-or-miss in terms of whether or not he could recall them. His entire sense of self had become lost to Khorne, and he swung from sapient being to bloodthirsty beast with seemingly no control over who he was as any given moment. He also became completely dependent on bloodshed to maintain his link to the mortal realm, and could only last a few weeks without planetary scale butchery to keep him tethered. As such, the World Eaters were forced to divert into any populated system they could find as they travelled towards Terra just to keep Angron in the material plane. He was also the only Daemon Primarch who, in yet another grim irony, never got any say in becoming a daemon- even [[Magnus the Red]] did not ascend before first rejecting the Emperor's offer of forgiveness. So he went from being a slave to the Nucerians, to being a slave to the Emperor, to being a slave to Khorne, forced to fight for all three without ever having any choice and now he could not even rebel. He's basically 40k's Butt-Monkey at this point. Angron's transformation into a Daemon also caused the World Eaters to develop an unmatched hatred for the Word Bearers for so thoroughly destroying their gene-father. Kharn in particular was furious about this in his comparatively lucid moments, as being the only person who Angron wouldn't immediately kill gave him front row seat to witness the completely broken, miserable monster Angron had ultimately become.

Shortly thereafter, Horus sent Perturabo to go collect Angron and his now completely degenerated legion for use at the Siege of Terra. As stated previously, the World Eaters had needed to stop every time they found a populated system in order to shed the blood necessary to keep Angron in the material realm. But they were getting too sidetracked in doing so, and Horus hadn't been able to talk them into hurrying up. Upon confronting the World Eaters, the Iron Warriors absolutely wrecked their maniacal brothers, ironically by doing the same sort of thing that the Space Wolves had so many years ago during the Night of the Wolf. Instead of allowing the World Eaters to engage them in close combat, the Iron Warriors initially shot only the daemons amongst the World Eaters, and then largely attempted to trap or disable the World Eaters where possible. The point was both to deny them combat, and thus power, and obviously to round them up for the Siege. Angron himself confronted Perturabo, who willingly met his brother's charge. After getting blasted into pasta sauce by a group of Iron Circle, Angron jumped into melee with Perturabo and heavily damaged his armor. Perturabo got in a decent counter-hit or two but he'd always been one of the brainy rather than brawny Primarchs. He was simply no match for Angron in melee combat even with Forgebreaker in hand, though his armor's durability was something to behold.

However, it would turn out that being an evil version of Guilliman would come in quite handy for Perturabo. For you see, Perturabo gave absolutely zero fucks about fighting fair. For instance, during the Drop Site Massacre when Vulkan had been screaming for Perturabo to face him in melee combat, Pert had chuckled a bit and then dropped a nuke on him. Perturabo had come to do a job, and as per usual, he was going to get it done. As such, he repeatedly insulted Angron as being a weak, pitiful slave who had sold his strength out of despair, and had become ''weaker'' as a result. Of course, Angron hadn't actually chosen to become a daemon at all, but Perturabo clearly either didn't know or didn't care. Perturabo then ordered his Iron Circle bots to surround Angron, who started lashing out against them. Their gigantic melee shields held strong even in the face of Angron's onslaught, and he succeeded only in tiring himself out. The lack of slaughter and rather bloodless combat (and possibly the insults) ultimately drained Angron of much of his power, and Perturabo and the Iron Circle started mercilessly blasting chunks out of him with what were heavily implied to be anti-Daemon rounds. The very first [[Obliterator]], Volk, then added a fusillade of his own to the mix. The assault of Perturabo, Volk, and the Iron Circle, combined with the Iron Warriors having denied the World Eaters their tithe of blood, weakened Angron to the point where he could no longer fight. Perturabo took the opportunity to mock Angron a bit more, and then waltzed over to him and unceremoniously knocked him out with a single blow from Forgebreaker. After this, he collected his recalcitrant brother and his legion and packed them up to head for Terra. (The fact Perturabo accomplished all this while sustaining minimal casualties shows how impressive his track-record during the Great Crusade could've been if he actually gave a damn.)

During the [[Siege of Terra]], he also had a pretty bitchin fight with Sanguinius which continued his losing streak. To be fair to him though, Sanguinius is Sanguinius, and Angron put up a very worthy fight. Most of the beginning consisted of Angron simply trying to catch Sanguinus, who had recently come off of fighting [[Ka'bandha]] and was already wounded and tired. Angron, who was not used to flying and was cumbersomely bulky (seriously his model's wings have biceps bigger than his arms do, and that's saying something), found he was not fast or maneuverable enough to land a hit on Sanguinius in the air. Sanguinius on the other hand was able to quickly flit in and out of Angron's reach to bloody him, but these attacks had a negligible effect on Angron. For instance, one of these engagements saw Sanguinius land a quick slash upon Angron's head which destroyed his eyes and a significant portion of his face. However Angron regenerated his injuries almost immediately, as the absurd amount of bloodshed occuring on Terra at the time provided a constant pool of energy to empower Angron. The two of them ended up crashing into the interior of a Warlord Titan's cockpit, and began a brawl in which Angron started slamming Sanguinius's head onto the floor. However, Sanguinius retaliated using his Infernus pistol, an incredibly silly one shot melta weapon which only exists as such because its in-game rules say it can only fire once. However stupid, the shot vaporized one of Angron's arms and drove him away from Sanguinius. Angron then had a flashback of Nuceria and his gladiator brothers and sisters, ruminating momentarily on how peaceful the night before the Emperor kidnapped him had been in spite of the Nails. This distraction allowed Sanguinius to impale Angron through the heart. To Sanguinius's surprise, Angron regenerated again and attempted to grab him. Sanguinius was too fast however, and withdrew his blade before Angron could get ahold of him. The two took to the air again but Angron was still not able to keep up with Sanguinius. After a short aerial chase, Sanguinius darted back into melee range and stabbed the Spear of Telesto through Angron's mouth and out the back of his head. With his brainstem pulped, Angron was momentarily unable to move and he crashed to the ground. He managed to regenerate enough to pull the Spear out, then completely healed right before Sanguinius engaged him on the ground. Unable to quickly overwhelm Angron in melee combat, Sanguinius took off again and as he did, Angron threw the Spear at him.

However, Sanguinius caught the Spear out of the air, [[meme|barrel rolled]] with it, and used the roll in conjunction with the Spear's momentum to throw it back at Angron. Despite Angron believing that he could catch the Spear in turn, it impaled him through the chest and pinned him to the ground. As Sanguinius flew off, Angron managed to get the Spear out once more but the wound healed more slowly than his previous injuries. Angron then came at last to the realization that fighting Sanguinius in the air was simply not working, and decided to change tack. As fate would have it, Sanguinius and Angron had landed for their melee bout in the midst of a group of battling Blood Angels and World Eaters, and Angron started slaughtering these Blood Angels in the hope of luring Sanguinius back. It quickly worked, and the two engaged on the ground once again. Initially they were evenly matched, but after a relatively short time, the already exhausted Sanguinius began to give ground. With Sanguinius essentially on his last legs and Angron only growing in power, both combatants realized that Sanguinius could not afford to let the fight drag on. Shortly thereafter, Angron decided to let Sanguinius stab him in order to get in close and grab his brother's throat. In the same motion, he also impaled Sanguinius through the gut with the Black Blade. Believing he had won, Angron mocked Sanguinius as he attempted to crush his adversary's throat. Unfortunately for Angron, Sanguinius had seemingly had the same idea of taking a wound to get in close, and the Angel grabbed the cables of the Butcher's Nails that were [[what|STILL]] somehow stuck in Angron's head, and even still functioning as they ever had. Angron tried everything he could to loosen Sanguinius's grip, but Sanguinius, fully Hulked out from the Red Thirst, started tearing the cables out of Angron's head. [[Not as Planned|The Nails being ripped out caused Angron so much pain that he actually begged Sanguinius to stop]], but Sanguinius's pity well was bone dry at that point in the duel. The Angel then proceeded to rip both the Nails and the brain in which they were embedded out of Angron's skull. This had the effect of killing Angron's physical incarnation and sending his soul back to the Warp. Khorne, as his champion died, laughed at the bloodshed from inside of Angron's own skull, caring as per usual not from whence the blood flowed so long as it did. By contrast, Angron's sons were a lot less philosophical than their patron, and so far from finding the matter amusing, went berserker(er) and started team-killing, which really just further ruined Horus' sublimely shitty day.

===41st Millennium===
[[Image:Angrondemon.jpg|300px|thumb|Even in daemonhood, they ''still'' can't get the Nails out. Fucking Archeotech was built to ''last''!]]
Angron has done far more shit than all the other Daemon Primarchs put together. Instead of sitting around [[Fulgrim|being a painting on some Chaos God's wall]], sitting around [[Mortarion|being a rotting fatass and feeling sorry for themselves]], sitting around [[Magnus the Red|yelling just as planned anytime anything happens]], sitting around [[Lorgar|preaching constantly]], [[Horus|being]] [[Alpharius|(Maybe)]] [[Konrad Curze|dead]], or [[Primarch#Two Missing Primarchs|being missing]]; Angron actually gets shit done and boy howdy when he [[rage]]s his way out of the eye of terror he makes sure that everyone knows about it...by tearing ''everything'' that gets in his way a new one until he finally gets thrown back into the warp by drowning in a quadrillion metric fucktons of [[Imperial Guard|Imperial Guardsmen]], [[Planetary Defense Force | Planetary Defense Force soldiers]], [[Space Marines|Spehss Mehreens]], [[Witch Hunters]], [[Sisters of Battle|Bolter Bitches]], [[Titan|Titans]], [[Stormtrooper|Inquisitorial Stormtroopers]], [[Daemonhunters]], and [[Grey Knights]], but to be fair, everyone kind of does that when the Imperium <strike>finishes the paperwork needed to</strike> retaliates.

This was of course before The Gathering Storm, whereupon Magnus personally attacked [[Fenris]] and laid waste to much of the planet and destroyed a lot of gene-seed, proving that [[Tzeentch]] can get shit done too. Then in 8th edition Mortarion waged [[Plague Wars]] against [[Ultramar]] and established the [[Scourge Stars]] systems in M42. Also it should be noted that Fulgrim has been free of that painting for a while now, but otherwise he still fits in the above category.

He also slaughtered his way throughout Imperial Space for over a century with 50,000 World Eater [[Khorne Berzerkers|Berzerker]]s and destroyed/maimed/killed/burned/broke the backs of/split open/fucked 70 sectors. However, in a subsequent Imperial offensive, Angron was banished to the warp and his men routed. This strike force comprised 2 Titan Legions, ''only'' 4 full Spess Mehreen chapters and over 30 Imperial Guard regiments to do that, so it's suffice to say that the counterattack put up quite a fight against the superior force. But to be fair, Angron's force was only comprised of close combat heavy infantry without ranged support or artillery.

Later on, he showed up with an even bigger force to attack Armageddon. The Imperium responded in kind, sending in one hundred [[Grey Knights|Grey Knight Terminators]], and all but ten of them died fighting Angron and his Bloodthirster posse(and only because their prodigy Librarian Hyperion managed to shatter his sword, and he STILL managed to murder their leader with just his bare fists). He is armed with a really huge fucking chainaxe that's taller than him with chainswords for the chainteeth of the chainaxe. He's also got a storm bolter, but we wouldn't be surprised if that fired chainswords as well. Fittingly enough, it was called 'Godtearer'.

Strangely, as seen in the picture above, he also still has the Butchers Nails stuck in his head. This should be completely impossible as Angron technically speaking doesn't have a body anymore (he's 100% warp energy now), and the Nails are technological in nature. He's also been blasted into paste on numerous occasions and forcibly dematerialized into the warp on a number of others, which means that the Nails seemingly regenerate along with the rest of him. The most likely explanation is that, as a daemon, he is at least partially shaped by the mortal perception of him, and the Nails are a big part of his story to anyone with high enough clearance to know his name. If that is true, then he actually is finally free of the Nails and the wires and bits poking out of his skull are just his way of making sure no one confuses him with [[Doombreed]] or something. Nope, turns out they are still present and still functional in the exact same way they were when Angron was flesh and blood. In fact, Sanguinius found out that these cables were a very viable weak point on the daemon primarch, as ripping them out caused such indescribable agony that might well have killed him were he still mortal. Agony so severe that it led him to ''beg'' the person he was trying to kill to stop.

He also wrote something called the '''Clotted Scrolls''' somewhere along the line, though precisely what wisdom he wrote (probably in blood) in there is unknown (maybe methods on how to [[rip and tear]] more effectively?).

Rather worryingly, he's proven to be practically impossible to banish as of the Age of the Dark Imperium- if he gets cast back into the Warp, he re-emerges exactly eight weeks, eight days, and eight hours later(Shouldn't this be two months,one week, 1 day and eight hours later? Or is GW completely devoid of math skills? Why point out the 8 weeks if you don’t the 8 days that add up to the 9th?), complete with eight Crimson Omens that strike terror into anyone unlucky enough to witness them. The Inquisition has no idea how he does it, but they think he might be supercharged by the Chaotic energies of the Great Rift. [[Internet_Troll|Coincidentally, since he can resurrect every turn on the tabletop, we finally have an estimate of how long each game turn actually takes in-universe.]]

Recently, Angron was given his own Arks of Omen campaign book. Unlike [[Fail|Abaddon, Morty, and the Tau]], he [[Gets shit done|gets shit done]]. Angron, a legion-strength World Eaters army, an Ark of Omen, a massive Khornate warfleet, and a metric fuckload of daemons invaded a planet called Malakbael. Malakbael was home to a newly discovered psychic beacon that the Imperium was using as a mini-Astronomican to guide fleets through the Imperium Nihilus. This being 40K, they were powering the thing by [[Grimdark|forcibly torturing psykers to death]]. This device, known as the Choral Engine, also had one tiny side effect: it attracted a lot of attention. Because of its strategic importance, it was being protected by Indomitus Fleet Quartus, the Inquisition, the Grey Knights, and a bunch of Space Marine chapters. Angron, who was suffering extreme fucking pain from the device, declared he would destroy it in the name of the Blood God. To call the invasion a massacre is a understatement. Angron fucking cut a bloody path through the Imperial forces. Not only did he destroy the leadership of the Imperial forces on Malakbael, his destruction of the Choral Engine and the massive spilling of blood triggered a mental backlash that affected the ENTIRE sector, causing people, among them Sisters of Battle and Primaris Marines, to lapse into madness and brutal infighting. Only the Custodes, Sisters of Silence, and Grey Knights were unaffected. The violence and bloodshed was so uncontrollable that the Imperium went "fuck it" and declared the entirety of [[Grimdark|Fleet Quartus to be condemned and damned as traitors despite the fact that most were still loyalists]]. Overall, Angron and the World Eaters absolutely devastated the Imperial forces. Highlights include Angron leading eight Bloodletters against a force of Imperial Knights and cutting Inquisitors and Grey Knight captains ''in half'' when they got in his way.

TLDR: Angron plunged an entire galactic sector into genocide, bloodshed, and madness because a 5G tower was giving him a migraine.

==In video games==

Unfortunately, he has appeared in only one of the official games, which greatly displeases [[Khorne]]. However, in the Ultimate Apocalypse mod for [[Dawn of War]], he takes the place of the Chaos Daemons' "game-ending win button" unit - and he's a walking rapetrain that can [[Awesome|obliterate buildings with a single hit, take out Titans in three, make himself invincible, and summon a retinue of Bloodthirsters]]. He can also be almost unkillable by exploiting a bug which lets him instantly refill his morale, which gives him disturbingly fast health regeneration. Too bad you'll almost never use him. He costs so many relic points in an army that consumes them like candy that, if you can spare the points and time to conjure him, chances are you're already winning so badly you don't actually need him. Seriously, for the same number of points it takes to conjure Angron you could just build 5-6 Helldrakes or an equal amount of Bloodthirsters, and keep in mind Chaos Daemons need the same resource for anything greater than lesser Daemons. If you're not spending them on other units you need ''right now'' then you can just overwhelm them with what you already have. Essentially the definition of "awesome but impractical", but sweet jesus is it truly awesome to watch.

Angron shows up in the Horus Heresy:Legions card game, being one of the best warlords, and in keeping with his character he has to attack every turn.

==On the tabletop==

===Horus Heresy===
====1E====
{| class=wikitable
! || Pts || WS || BS || S || T || W || I || A || Ld || Sv
|-
| '''Angron:''' || 400 || 9 || 5 || 7 || 6 || 5 || 7 || 6 || 10 || 3+/4++
|}
[[File:Angaron.jpg|300px|right|thumb|WHY IS HE BEATING UP HIS OWN LEGION said everyone on Istvaan III. Proof that Angron was actually a Loyalist Primarch. Don't believe the Chaos lies!]]
Obviously one of the strongest Primarchs in the game when it comes to close combat, aside from his stats Angron has a 3+ armor (weak for a demigod), 4+ invulnerable, FNP (the full rule since the 02/11/2019 errata) the Primarch rule and Hatred, so he gets to re-roll to-hit rolls on the first turn of any combat, while also having Armourbane and dealing Instant Death on to wound roll of 6, in case S8-9 doesn't instagib anything right away. Thanks to the Butcher's Nails he will gain 1 bonus attack (up to 10) for every Independent Character or Infantry unit he kills/destroys in close combat (But he must be the one to give the fatal blow/remove the last model to pick up this bonus) and he can also challenge as many times as there are Independent Characters and units in combat with him thanks to the Red Sands rule, assuring he will at least pick up some extra attacks during the course of the game.

The obvious downsides are that, aside from butchering things in melee, Angron cannot do anything: he doesn't buff his army in any way aside 12" aura of Fearless, while other Primarchs bestow significant buffs to their armies, and of course he is one of the (if not THE) most fragile of the Primarchs, having only 5 wounds and 3+/4++. Having FNP 5+ doesn't fully compensate against mass fire but makes him actually more resilient than most of his brothers against AP2 attacks. So all in all he's much like Kharn on steroids: you reach melee - you're king, you get your transport blown up and then get kited across the table - you're fucked. The other problem he shares with Kharn is that he tends to annihilate anything he charges in one phase either through sweeping advance or just by killing everyone outright, which leaves him vulnerable to enemy fire afterwards.

Honestly, he's not worth it. Between his fragility, low mobility, and lack of army bonuses, he's a tricky Primarch to use. Unfortunate considering his badass fluff.

====2E====
{| class=wikitable
! || Pts || M || WS || BS || S || T || W || I || A || Ld || Sv
|-
| '''Angron:''' || 450 || 8 || 8 || 5 || 6 || 6 || 6 || 6 || 6 || 10 || 2+/4++
|}

While he's taken a few hits statwise, Angron remains just as indescribably angry in the new HH, especially now that he has a proper 2+/4++ save like the other primarchs. on top of everything the Primarch rule provides, he also gets Hatred (Everything), Rampage (2) and Furious Charge (2) so his charges can be even more devastating. With both Gorefather and Gorechild being AP2 with Shred, Armorbane and Murderous Strike (3+), he can reduce plenty into paste. The Butcher's Nails rule got changed to now provide extra attacks on EVERY turn now, meaning that every turn he's on the field he becomes even more dangerous, especially when he's into all these challenges thanks to the Red Sands rule.

But as before, killing is all he can do. His Warlord Trait gives everyone Feel No Pain (6+), which is only okay, and Adamantium Mind (3+), which will only see limited use considering how few psykers are on the field. The most helpful part of this is the free reaction you can take at any phase each turn. He also has rather limited defense, as despite his 2+/4++ save, he will always be hit in melee as if he has a WS of 3, which is particularly devastating when against a praetor with a power axe.

===40k===
====Older Editions====
{| class=wikitable
! || Pts || WS || BS || S || T || W || I || A || Ld || Sv
|-
| '''Angron:''' || 500 || 10 || 6 || 7 || 6 || 5 || 6 || 6 || 10 || 3+/4++
|}

He had stats from an old issue of [[White Dwarf]], and though they might seem disappointing, especially in comparison to his Primarch form (it's barely an upgrade), his stats alone don't tell you everything.

For starters, he has additional rules such as Furious Charge (to make him S8), he has Iron Hide (keeping his power armour save), the Roar of Hate rule to reduce the Leadership of enemies by 1, and his Daemon rule made his Invuln as strong as when he relied on armour. The real boost to him however is the fact that he's a Flying Monstrous Creature now (although in the edition he came out it just gave him 12" movement instead), effectively keeping his Armourbane and AP2, and it fixes his movement issue.

The real boost to his old self is his weapon, Angron's Black Blade, and with it in hand it's no wonder Gorefather and Gorechild became hand-me-downs. This is a Master-crafted weapon that gives all of his attacks the Instant Death rule. All this combined he makes [[Abaddon]] the Despoiler and [[Mephiston]] look like total pussies, but you have to get him a bodyguard of at least 2-12 [[Bloodthirster|bloodthirsters]], which effectively racks up his point cost to over 1300 at the least, but there's nothing in the game that survive a charge from him and his bodyguards.

====9th Edition====
[[File:AngronDaemonPrimarch.jpg|300px|right|thumb|WHAT THE WARP DO YOU MEAN GUILLIMAN'S ALIVE?!]]

It's happening people: the galaxy's angriest man is at long last getting a proper model of his Daemon Primarch form and rules in the upcoming World Eaters codex, and he hasn't skipped wing day once since the 31st Millennia. BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, BOYS AND GIRLS!

And according to Warhammer Community's previews, he appears to rightfully be an absolute monster. 16" movement means he doesn't need silly things like transports and Strength 9 and 12 attacks make him dangerous even before his weapons are factored in. He's got a dual-wielded sword (Samni’arius - not the Black Blade since that got shattered and is now called Vuragh'th to differentiate, but now a weapon with a Slaaneshi daemon bound to it that was very [[Awesome|violently forged from a giant block of iron by way of bashing said daemon with it]]) and chainaxe (Spinegrinder, which was built over the course of decades by the population of a Hell Forge eager to curry favor with Angron [[Not as planned|only to become the first victims of their own creation]]) with two profiles: the first one is S User AP-3 D1 and triples his attacks so you can wipe out [[tarpit]]s single-handedly, and the other is [[Anal circumference|S+5 AP-4 D3+3]] for when you really need that one character or vehicle dead yesterday. On top of all that, he's got a choice between auras that he can switch each command phase: one that adds an extra attack to friendly World Eaters core units within 6", one that gives all friendly World Eaters within 6" the ability to reroll 1s to hit in melee, and one that disables falling back for enemies within 6" so they can't avoid [[Rip and tear|their painful demise]].

Reveals later came out regarding Reborn in Blood, the ability that was touted in the original reveal of the above as allowing Angron to come back from getting his shit pushed in. You can use 6 Blood Tithe points (a mechanic that was revealed alongside what Reborn in Blood exactly was) to bring Angron back into Warp Strike reserves on death with 8 Wounds, [[What|with no limit on how many times you can do this]]. Also note that since Khorne cares not from whom the blood flows you get 2 points from Angron being killed as well, making the effective BTP you need to have when Angron dies 4 ([[Just as planned|denying Slaanesh the satisfaction of having Angron be summoned using his/her/its holy number]]). The [[rape]] train clearly has no brakes.

Of course this all has to be balanced out ''somehow'', so [[Derp|Geedubs made him worse as a Warlord than the Lord Invocatus]], having very few Warlord Traits. In his own fucking Legion. Good fucking luck if you're playing the Disciples of the Red Angel Army of Renown, because the Butcher's Nails fucking with Angron's head means he isn't good at leadership. Who would have thought?

==Angron VS other Primarchs:==
<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="100%">
Primarch fighting, while fun to see, isn't a very competitive thing to do as it'll usually tie up both Primarchs for the entire game without either of them dying (But with Angron this is less likely as you're going to die or kill fast!), with that in mind this section is about how Angron fares against other Primarchs Mathhammer wise. Please note that all the various abilities are taken into accounts when possible and the match-ups assume the Primarchs are the only ones involved in the fighting, so various abilities like Angron's "The Butcher's Nails" and Rampage do not provide any bonuses. The fights are supposed to be in a vacuum for simplicity (So no Furious Charge for our hero...), but notes are added to make things clearer in particular instances. Also all of the Primarchs use their most powerful weapons (because why have a contest if you don't do your best?)
<div class="mw-collapsible-content">

* Angron VS Horus
**Horus turn 1 & 2: hits 3 times, wounds 2.667 times, 0.888 after saves and FNP, and IWND will take that down to 0.555 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Horus (with Angron wounded twice): hits 3.999 times, wounds 3.555 times, causes 1.185 wounds after saves & FNP, taken to 0.851 with IWND at the start of the next turn.
**Angron Round 1: hits 5.333 times, wounds 4.444 times, 1.48 after saves, and IWND take it down to 1.148.
**Angron Wounded: hits 3 times, wounds 1.999 times, 0.666 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.333 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Despite a good showing in the first round; when factoring in Disabling Strike the whole thing becomes academic; Horus overtakes Angron in damage capacity after one wound (<2 turns) and quickly beats Angron to a pulp as Angron continues to flail feebly.

* Angron vs Fulgrim
**Fulgrim hits 3.5 times, wounds 2.333 times (2.722 times if his warlord trait is Child of Terra), 1.166 (1.361) times after saves, 0.971 (1.134) after Feel No Pain (remember that half of the attacks that wound cause Instant Death) and IWND will take that down to 0.638 (0.801) wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Angron Round 1: hits 5.333 times, wounds 4.444 times, 1.48 after saves, and IWND take it down to 1.148.
**Angron Round 2 and thereafter: hits 4 times, wounds 3.333 times, 1.111 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.778 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**A really close fight: Angron does marginally more damage if Fulgrim doesn't chose Child of Terra as his Warlord Trait. With Child of Terra it becomes a battle of attrition that Angron will eventually lose. If Angron gets blinded at any point due to Fulgrim's Gilded Panoply it puts him at a disadvantage he likely wont recover from.

* Angron VS Ferrus
**Ferrus hits 2.5 times, wounds 2.083 times, 0.694 times after saves and FNP, and IWND will take that down to 0.361 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Angron Round 1: hits 5.333 times, wounds 3.555 times, 1.185 after saves, and IWND take it down to 0.852.
**Angron Round 2: hits 4 times, wounds 2.666 times, 0.889 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.556 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Thanks to his upgraded Feel No Pain, Angron can tank more than Ferrus can, resulting in a win.

* Angron VS Konrad Curze
**Curze hits 3 times, wounds 2.25 times, 0.750 wounds after saves and FNP, and IWND will take that down to 0.417 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Angron Round 1: hits 5.333 times, wounds 4.444 times, 2.222 after saves, and IWND take it down to 1.889.
**Angron Round 2 and thereafter: hits 4 times, wounds 3.333 times, 1.667 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.333 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Angron easily wins, doing a lot more damage and receiving less in turn.
**Note: Curze can Hit & Run, but by doing so he would only gain one more attack, while allowing Angron to reset his Hatred, thus actually making himself die even faster. However he would be a much better fight: Konrad on the Charge would do 2.625 wounds (0.875 with ID) which become 1.168, plus 0.1389 for HoW and 0,359 for the Widowmakers, for a total of 1,666 wounds, or 1.333 after IWND. This, thanks to the -1 wound of Angron, actually means that they would kill each other on the fifth assault, at the same initiative step. Provided that Konrad always succeed in his escape, that is.

* Angron VS Vulkan
**Vulkan hits 2 times, wounds 1.666 times, 0.833 wounds after saves (ID Negates FNP) and IWND will take that down to 0.5 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Angron Round 1: hits 5.333 times, wounds 3.555 times, 1.185 after saves, and IWND take it down to 0.63.
**Angron Round 2: hits 4 times, wounds 2.666 times, 0.889 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.333 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Vulkan wins. If Angron has the first turn of combat, Vulkan's legendary endurance nearly fails him by the 8th combat, possibly resulting in an Angron win (5.741). However Vulkan is as likely to kill him in the 7th combat (4.833), and if not has a 83.3% chance of Concussing to swing first for 5.333 wounds in the 8th combat.

* Angron vs Mortarion
**Mortarion hits 2.5 times, wounds 1.666 times, 0.833 times after saves (no FNP due to Instant Death) and IWND will take that down to 0.5 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Angron Round 1: hits 5.333 times, wounds 3.555 times, 1.777 after saves, and IWND take it down to 1.222.
**Angron Round 2: hits 4 times, wounds 2.666 times, 1.333 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.778 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Mortarion loses. Despite having the same reroll on IWND and doing the same damage per turn as Vulkan; even with one extra wound Mortarion's poorer save allows Angron to take him down more quickly.

* Angron VS Lorgar
**Lorgar hits 2.5 times, wounds 2.083 times, 0.694 after saves and FNP, and IWND will take that to 0.361 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Angron Round 1: hits 4 times, wounds 3.111 times, 1.555 after saves, and IWND take it down to 1.222.
**Angron Round 2 and thereafter: hits 4 times, wounds 3.333 times, 1.667 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.333 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Angron wins pretty easily.
**Note: against Lorgar Transfigured with Precognition Lorgar wins (Not as easily as the old version, but is still a monster).

*Angron VS Perturabo
**Perturabo hits 2 times, wounds 1.667 times, 0.555 wounds after saves and FNP, then IWND will take that down to 0.222 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Angron Round 1: hits 5.333 times, wounds 4.444 times, 1.48 after saves, and IWND take it down to 1.148.
**Angron Round 2 and thereafter: hits 4 times, wounds 3.333 times, 1.111 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.778 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Angron wins.
**Note: in the turn after Perturabo actually wounds Angron (69% per round) he will most probably be blinded and then hammered to death. So if he can't kill him before that he is actually dead meat.

* Angron VS Alpharius
**Alpharius hits 2.917 times, wounds 1.7 times, 0.85 wounds after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.517 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Angron Round 1: hits 5.333 times, wounds 4.444 times, 2.222 after saves, and IWND take it down to 1.889.
**Angron Round 2 and thereafter: hits 4 times, wounds 3.333 times, 1.667 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.333 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**As with Vulkan, Angron can't use FNP in this fight due to the Pale Spear's Instant Death, but he still easily takes the win.

* Angron VS Rogal Dorn
**Dorn hits 2 times, wounds 1.5 times, 0.499 wounds after saves and FNP, and IWND will take that down to 0.167 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Dorn (Sundering Blow) hits once, wounds 0.972 times, 0.486 wounds after saves (No FNP due to Instant Death), taken to 0.152 at the start of the next turn.
**Angron Round 1: hits 5.333 times, wounds 3.555 times, 1.777 after saves, and IWND take it down to 1.444.
**Angron Round 2 and thereafter: hits 4 times, wounds 2.667 times, 1.333 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 1 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**This is probably Angron's easiest fight.
**Note: Sundering Blow cancels out Feel No Pain so it was worth calculating. Turns out it makes no difference here; Dorn has too few attacks to make a difference either way.

* Angron VS Corvus Corax
**Corvus hits 4 times (Scourge)/3 times (Shadow-walk), wounds 3 times (Scourge)/2.25 times (Shadow-walk), 0.999 wounds (Scourge)/0.750 wounds (Shadow-walk) after saves and FNP and IWND will take that down to 0.666/0.417 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Angron Round 1: hits 5.333/4.5 times, wounds 4.444/3.75 times, 2.963/2.5 after saves, and IWND take it down to 2.63/2.167.
**Angron Round 2 and thereafter: hits 4/3 times, wounds 3.333/2.5 times, 2.222/1.667 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.889/1.333 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Angron wins really easily as Corax is simply too frail for him.
**Note: differently from Curze, Corax would actually have the edge on the charge thanks to his Sire of the Raven Guard rule and his Hammer of Wrath/dual Archeotech Pistols. Also in a turn in which blind goes off he could have the advantage of Shadow-walk and scourge at the same times (plus more, 'cause he would hit on 3s). A tough fight, but more on his style and it could make him win in extremis.

* Angron VS Roboute Guilliman
**Angron Round 1: Angron has Hatred, so on the first turn he will hits 5.333 times, wounds 4.444 times, 2.222 after saves, 1.972 after Armour of Reason re-roll and IWND take it down to 1.639.
**Angron Round 2: Angron hits 4 times, wounds 3.333 times, 1.667 times after saves, 1.417 after re-roll and IWND will take that down to 1.084 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Angron Round 3 and thereafter: Angron hits 3 times, wounds 2.5 times, 1.25 after saves and 1 after re-roll. Then IWND take it down to 0.667.
**Guilliman Round 1/2/3: hits 2.5 times, wounds 2.222 times, 0.741 times after saves and FNP, and IWND will take that down to 0.407 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Guilliman Round 4 and thereafter: hits 3.333 times, wounds 2.963 times, 0.987 times after saves and FNP, and IWND will take that down to 0.654 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Unsurprisingly, Guilliman loses this fight.

*Angron vs Magnus
**Angron first round: hits 4.5 times, wounds 3.75 times and 1.875 after saves which IWND will take down to 1.542 at the start of next turn
**Angron second round: hits 3 times, wounds 2.5 times and 1.25 after saves which IWND will take down to 0.917 at the start of next turn
**Magnus: hits twice, wounds 1.667 times, reducing to 0.557 after saves & FNP. Then IWND will take down to 0.222 at the start of next turn
**Magnus (using Force): hits twice, wounds 1.667, reduces to 0.834 after saves. IWND brings this to 0.5 at the start of the next turn.
**Psychic powers normally don't get included in the PvP breakdowns, but Magnus is the only one with a Force Weapon so it was worth mentioning. Either way you look at it, Magnus loses this one pretty badly. Things would obviously be different if other powers were included.
**As with psychic powers in general in 30k, this fight is really swingy based on what powers Magnus takes. If he can roll Iron arm and Warp speed with a power left to generate then he could take Prescience to actually gain a decent chance of winning. At the same time he could also have a tough time in power generation and get squished.

*Angron VS Leman Russ
**Angron Round 1: Angron has Hatred and is hitting on a 5+, so he hits 3.333 times, wounds 2.778 times, invul save brings it down to 1.389 and IWND brings it to 1.056 wounds.
**Angron Round 2 and on: Angron is hitting on 5s, so hits 2 times, wounds 1.666 times, saves brings it down to .833 and IWND brings it 0.5
**Leman hits Angron 3.214 times, wounds 2.678 times, save brings it down to 1.339, FNP brings it 0.892 and IWND brings it down 0.559
**As expected Angron loses this fight. Angron puts up a reasonable fight but the wolf king is just much for him.
**TLDR: Without the Sword of Balelight, the fight is very close. Sword of Balelight is pretty busted.

* Angron VS Jaghatai
**Jaghatai (on Bike) hits 4 times, wounds 2 times, 1 wounds after saves and FNP will take that down to 0.666 and IWND will take that down to 0.333
**Angron Round 1: hits 5.333 times, wounds 3.555 times, 1.185 wounds after saves, and IWND take it down to 0.852 at the start of the next turn.
**Angron Round 2: hits 4 times, wounds 2.666 times, 0.888 wounds after saves, IWND will take that down to 0.556 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Angrons wins, and if Jaghatai uses hit-and-run he'll get destroyed even faster.

* Angron vs Sanguinius
**Sanguinius charging: hits 4 times (3.5 times with Blade Encarmine), wounds 3.999 times (double wounds taken into account) (3.111 with Encarmine), becomes 1.999 (1.037 with Encarmine & FNP) after saves
***Sanguinius Hammer of Wrath: 1 autohit, wounds 0.833 times, becomes 0.277 after saves and FNP.
***Total combined damage on charge 2.276 (1.314), taken to 1.944 (0.981) next turn with IWND
**Sanguinius thereafter: hits 3.5 times (3 times with Blade Encarmine), wounds 2.333 times (double wounds taken into account)(2.666 with Encarmine), taken to 1.166 after saves (0.888 with Encarmine + FNP), taken to 0.8333 (0.555) next turn with IWND
**Angron Round 1: hits 4.5 times, wounds 3.75 times, becomes 1.875 after saves (0.938 if Sanguinius charged). IWND takes it to 1.54 (0.604) next turn
**Angron thereafter: hits 3 times, wounds 2.5 times, becomes 1.25 after saves and IWND takes it to 0.917 next turn
***There is a lot going on with this fight depending on what Sanguinius is doing. With the Spear of Telesto, from a standing start or if Angron charges there is a mutual kill by about the fifth bout of combat. If Sanguinius can get the charge he wins.
***With the Blade Encarmine there is a close mutual kill if Sanguinius charges, but Angron wins from a standing start or if he charges. Feel No Pain really makes the difference.

* TLDR version: Despite being mocked for ''only'' having 3+/4++ in saves and fewer wounds than everyone but Lorgar (or Corax on a bad day), Angron is surprisingly resilient thanks to his FNP(5+). He will outpace most opponents thanks to his high number of attacks and good WS, so those who can't match his output turn-for-turn can only hope to outlast him. Angron is pretty vulnerable to Strikedown, Concussive, Blind, and basically any rule which reduces his ability to hit things ''(eg: Horus & Russ)'', all of which will severely cripple his overall damage potential. Keep in mind, as mentioned above, this is without any benefits from his The Butcher's Nails rule. With his attacks maxed out he can destroy almost any other Primarch (even Lorgar with Precognition, though it is damn close) with the exception of a few like Russ and...yeah, you guessed it right: Horus! Although he will surely put a dent even in the Warmaster.

In case you're wondering, Angron's mortal form defeats his Daemon form, mainly because his Daemon form was made before IWND became a thing. (Though given the Community stats for his 9E return, this might not be the case for much longer...)
</div></div>

==Angron VS other Primarchs: Horus Heresy 2.0==
<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="100%">

'''Angron vs. The Lion'''
*Lion with the Lion Sword ''(Hits on MC 2+)'': 5.97 hits, 4.97 wounds, '''2.48 unsaved wounds''', which is reduced to 2.15 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
**Lions Choler (+1 attack): 6.81 hits, 5.67 wounds, '''2.83 unsaved wounds''', which is reduced to 2.5 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
**Lions Choler (+2 attacks): 7.64 hits, 6.37 wounds, '''3.18 unsaved wounds''', which is reduced to 2.84 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
*Angron with Gorefather and Gorechild ''(Turn 3, +3 Attacks, Hits on 4+)'' 8.89 hits, 7.9 wounds, '''3.70 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 3.37 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.

:The Lion wins '''under normal circumstances.''' Angron hits like a truck in the first round, and it really starts eating into the Lion's wounds giving him extra attacks, even though Angron picks up attacks as the game continues too. But due to a higher Initiative, much better accuracy, and the save reroll mean that the Lion should be able to claim the win in the third round.

'''Angron vs. Fulgrim'''

'''Angron vs. Perturabo'''

'''Angron vs. The Khan'''

'''Angron vs. Leman Russ'''

'''Angron vs. Rogal Dorn'''

'''Angron vs. Konrad Curze'''

'''Angron vs. Sanguinius'''

'''Angron vs. Ferrus Manus'''

'''Angron vs. Roboute Guilliman'''

'''Angron vs. Mortarion'''

'''Angron vs. Magnus the Red'''

'''Angron vs. Horus'''

'''Angron vs. Lorgar'''

'''Angron vs. Vulkan'''

'''Angron vs. Corvus Corax'''

'''Angron vs. Alpharius'''

</div></div>

==Gallery==
<gallery>
File:Past-Angron.jpg| Doomguy called he wants his training uniform back, and he wants your head with it.
File:Angron.jpg|Can [[Anime|Vegeta]] say what his power level is?
File:Angron Butchers Nails.jpg|Angron before Daemonhood. The only real difference is a lack of wings.
File:Aerion's Angron.jpg|Angron portrayed in his natural state: PISSED THE FUCK OFF ABOUT EVERYTHING!
File:Angron by alexboca-d7930i6.jpg|Angron just generally being a boss (and looking absolutely goddamn awesome while doing so). And you call the epic ness that he wears "3+" greatly displeases khorne and teh emprah
File:angron_is_for_angry_by_sunradio-d6oferw.jpg|Daemon Primarch Angron at the final battle of the First war of Armageddon.
File:Happy angron.jpg|Angron can be happy too...
</gallery>

==See Also==
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKPVNaKvODw&t=0s| They hit him with a truck!]

{{Primarchs}}
{{Daemons-Characters}}

[[category:Chaos]][[Category:World_Eaters]]

Nasuverse

2023-02-13T15:32:42Z

2A02:8071:4488:C8C0:0:0:0:6A8A: /* Fate/Grand Order */

{{Cleanup}}
{{Spoilers}}
{{Heresy}}
{{HurfDurf}}

[[File:Typemoonwall.jpg|400px|thumb|The heroines of the three main works in the Nasuverse. From left to right: Arcueid Brunestud from Tsukihime, Saber from Fate, and Ryougi Shiki from Kara no Kyoukai.]]
The '''Nasuverse''' is a fictional universe created by Japanese author Kinoko Nasu. His partner in crime is Takeuchi Takashi, the character designer and artist. Together the two of them form media company Type-Moon, license-holder for that which follows and ruler of all waifus.

The Nasuverse is basically an urban fantasy setting. Mages, vampires, zombies, and the Holy Grail are all real. Mages spend most of their time fighting each other over petty arguments, circlejerking in the magic academy inside of Big Ben, and committing crimes against humanity in the name of progressing their research. They only stop once in a while to fight over the Holy Grail so they can gain complete knowledge of the universe and access to the Akasha, or whatever.

Overall, the Nasuverse is pretty much the intersection of /a/, /v/, and /tg/, and it's been around for a long time. While there are earlier works, Tsukihime and Fate/Stay Night were the first major productions of Type-Moon. These two were ''eroge'' visual novels (the kind of VN that features sex scenes but makes sense with them censored, distinct from the ''nukige'' that exist purely as pornography), and while an interesting story where you get to bang a cute girl sells pretty well in Japan, that second part doesn't fly so well in the West. As time went on, Nasu and Takeuchi tried to distance themselves from their sordid roots by remaking F/SN with alternate scenes in place of the sex, and by generally avoiding the matter in future material. Or at least, not putting in appreciably more lengthy and graphic sex scenes than you'd see in a normal supernatural action plot.

Nasu himself is a fan of [[Dungeons and Dragons]] and plays it a lot. Enough that he and a bunch of other weeaboo authors got together and recorded some of their play sessions in that weird Japanese tradition of replay books. It's called [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Anime/ChaosDragon Red Dragon], and the anime about it sucks, so if you're that much of a weeaboo you should just read the source material.

For the sake of expediency (and the fact that this page ended up longer than some [[Warhammer 40k|actual]] [[Dungeons and Dragons|/tg/-related]] [[World of Darkness|pages]] in one iteration), this page is currently having some excess fat trimmed.

==Setting Overview==

=== Gaia and her Children ===
''(The following contains a bunch of conjecture. Some of this stuff is strongly implied, but never stated. Take it as a somewhat romanticized retelling.)''

Planets are not quite what they seem through a telescope. The Earth is a cosmos in and of itself, consisting of many layers that do not necessarily agree even on their physics or other fundamental laws. It may or may not be moving toward the model embodied by every other planet in the system (and the Moon), where they eventually become barren rocks inhabited by a single ultimate lifeform (presumably getting there by eliminating all others), known as a Type or an Ultimate One. Said lifeform is also considered the will of the planet it represents, because there's nothing else there that has a will. It also follows its own rules, notably not necessarily subscribing to Earth's idea of death. Aliens ''do'' exist but so little is known about them that they don't really show up.

That's all important, because, as it turns out, Earth doesn't have a Type, and its inhabitants are abnormally powerful compared to the others. In the Middle Ages, a wielder of True Magic named Zelretch fought Type-Moon one on one and barely won, mainly because his opponent did not know what True Magic was. In the apocalyptic universe of Notes, humanity survives a complete loss of fertility on Earth by genetically engineering itself and eliminates Type after Type, though at a great cost and while probably dying out before getting through them all. Perhaps humanity ''is'' a Type, Evangelion-style, or perhaps one just hasn't been born yet but will be terrifyingly powerful if it emerges.

In the ancient times, deep within the Age of Gods, Gaia tried to birth many children of all sizes and shapes. Today most of them are hiding on the Other Side of the World, but some are still around, moreso in the Tsuki timeline than Fate. Such beings have an innate link to Gaia, they are made whole, and perfect, fulfilling their duty. But while they are 'perfect' individually, they do not perfectly encompass what exactly Earth is.

The final experiment was a species that was perfectly imperfect – Humanity. As the ages went by, humanity's link with the earth waned, whether by design or not. All that was on the planet until then was governed by Gaia, the will of the planet, but humanity had its own will: Alaya. As Gaia corrected things that happened on Earth to protect itself and its children, it now had to accommodate for Alaya, which adjusted the world also, protecting humans at the expense of all else. In a bid to preserve the link between gods and humans, the former created the demigod Gilgamesh, who would serve as a bridge between the two groups, [[Not As Planned|only for him to tell them to go fuck themselves, become the first hero of humanity, and eliminate any possibility of a reconciliation]].

There were multiple Ages of Gods that we know of, though we don't have many further details about them. They were separated by periods such as the current one, where the more magical side of the planet retreated. However, the Age of Gods most prominently featured in the Nasuverse may have been the last, and it's all downhill from here. It should be noted here that an Age of Gods is an interesting time to live in due to reality's multilayered nature; the mythology formed during the time was mostly based on observable reality, and you could find the Underworld in Mesopotamia by just digging down. Gods were Gaia-made machines that personified their respective phenomena, and most stories of them acting human stem from them going insane as their colleagues die and they are forced to take on their roles, which they were not designed for. As all the gods died or left for the Other Side, the laws of physics filled their roles.

Long ago, the Human Order began to overtake the planet's influence for good. This is the end of the Age of Gods. By the time of King Arthur, its last vestiges were fading, and Gaia's older children have withdrawn from sight. They did so in no small part because ether, which is like air to them and forms the basis of magic, began disappearing from the atmosphere. A modern human would be unable to survive in the Age of Gods due to the heavy concentration of ether. To combat the growing problem of being unable to conjure spells from thin air by just speaking a few words, King Solomon created modern magic, which uses the body's (rather limited) reserves of ether instead. Hence, modern mages are much weaker than their Age of Gods counterparts, though those would be powerless in the modern world without some extensive preparations.

The Earth was concerned about the unusual situation and called upon Crimson Moon, the ultimate lifeform of Earth's satellite, to help return things to "normal". He made immensely powerful copies of himself known as True Ancestors, which were of Earthly origin and, therefore, accepted by the planet. Unfortunately, they inherited his bloodlust, [[Eldar|going completely nuts unless they adhered to a strict ascetic lifestyle]]. The humans who were bit by True Ancestors and were strong enough to handle it became vampires in their own right, being called Dead Apostles serving the True Ancestors. To eliminate their maddened brethren, the True Ancestors made a particularly powerful member of their kin, which doubled as a potential vessel for Crimson Moon in case he died. The plan went swimmingly until she, previously kept unaware of human blood, was made to taste some by a psychotic human and went mad herself, [[Fail|massacring almost every sane True Ancestor]] before coming to her senses and imprisoning herself, only leaving to hunt the asshole responsible (who extended the chase by body-hopping, which she could do nothing about). The Dead Apostles saw an opportunity to revolt, having become remarkably strong in their own right (to the point where one is also a potential Crimson Moon vessel), and finished the job. Meanwhile, as he'd expected, Crimson Moon died in one of his confrontations, though the potential for him to return still remains.

From there, depending on humanity's various actions, there are two options:
*'''A)''' Humanity embraces modernity, resulting in a strong Human Order. History will be able to manifest through such methods as servant summoning, but that same power becomes a danger to itself, and the world. This route leads to the Fate-side of the world.
*'''B)''' Humanity holds itself back, or loses a few fights, resulting in a healthier but much more dangerous world, where vampires and other nonhumans are much more prominent and threaten to overtake the world. This is colloquially known as the Tsuki-side of the setting.

Whichever the case, most of this stuff is not common knowledge. But unlike the various kinds of Masquerade in the World of Darkness, the masquerade in the Nasuverse isn't necessarily strictly maintained. It is more the result of magi being naturally secretive and organizations such as the Church preferring to keep their dealings under wraps, combined with a general waning of their influence and popular dismissal of old tales of magic and monsters as myth. Unethical as most magical dealings are, members of that world naturally prefer to police each other to prevent publicity lest their own eugenics programs, homunculus abuse, and various highly lethal mishaps become known.

The underground's main players are the Mage Association, split into three branches, and the Church, which instead seeks to eliminate Magecraft and the supernatural completely, going as far as they are allowed to get away with. Despite their natural enmity, the two have to constantly cooperate to deal with dangerous rogues. Besides them, there are plenty of others. Hedge magi who were never taught properly, people who had a Magic Circuit open in their nerve system, leading to supernatural abilities, generally called 'psychics', and people whose ancestor had mated with something like a fairy or an ogre, generally called 'mixed bloods'.

=== Important Names and Places ===
*'''The Root''' - As it sounds, the wellspring of creation, beyond gods, and even the planet. The intent of Magecraft users to return here is indicative of the regressive nature of Magecraft, with mages who abandon this goal shunned and called spellcasters instead. Each form of True Magic presents a different road to the Root of All Things. With that said, nobody knows what the Root actually ''is'', and the people who have reached it aren't telling (in no small part because they disappear without a trace upon doing so). At least one wielder of True Magic came close to reaching the Root and nope'd out, suggesting that it may not be as desirable as mages think.
*'''Records of Akasha''' - A mass of data saved by the world, which exists outside of spacetime. May or may not be the Root itself, or at least part of it. When a human dies, their soul is returned here and stripped of all information other than the origin, later reincarnating anew. Hence, reincarnation is borderline impossible in Nasuverse if you actually die (as opposed to body-hopping), since the person that returns will only retain the barest skeleton of a soul. Within these data is also the Throne of Heroes, wherein humanity's greatest heroes and villains (and fictitious tales, and what have you) are recorded as Servants after being removed from the cycle others are subjected to.
*'''Counterforce''' - A power that protects the world. This typically refers to the human variant, but Gaia and Alaya both have a Counterforce of their own. It is the main reason why neither magic nor technology have yet ripped the planet in two: Wherever someone would come close to such an event, the Counterforce will manifest, either by strengthening whoever is trying to solve the problem, or as something as simple as a natural disaster, or it will use the data from the Throne of Heroes to summon a Counter Guardian: An immensely powerful spirit, that can balance things in person, with more finesse. Most of the time, that still means murdering everybody.
*'''Origin''' - A term that comes up a lot, so it should probably be noted here. As everything and everyone originates from Akasha, their nature is predetermined, giving them a particular 'Origin', which can typically be expressed in a few words. It will inform their actions in a subtle manner, acting as a sort of instinct that intensifies in crisis situations. For an extreme example, a guy with a "Consumption" origin chose to eat the body of the person he murdered whole after seeing no other way to dispose of it. For a more mundane situation, Emiya Kiritsugu can't repair things properly due to his "Severing and Binding" origin (think cutting a thread and making a knot to reconnect it; the result is not as good as a new thread) and uses bullets that contain his bones and fuck with the target's mana flow. Humanity can work against their origin, but is strengthened by acting in line with it. A being with an awakened Origin is an immense force, but basically ceases to have free will.[[File:clock tower faculties.png|200px|thumb|Faculties of Clock Tower]]
*'''The Mage Association''' - A gathering of Magecraft users of various strength and lineage, going back thousands of years. The main goal of every Magus is to reach the 'Records of Akasha', or rather the 'Root', all of which are basically the same thing as explained above. Many ways of attempting this are demonstrated across the franchise, and they generally fail. This goal basically includes every Magus in the Association to some extent. The Association's purpose is just to ensure that while everyone comes up with their own way, that way does not involve too much collateral damage.
**Clock Tower - The first of the three branches, situated in London. Nepotistic, making a big deal of lineage and one's inborn qualities as a Magus. If you discover something cool or gain a unique ability, the old fogeys will designate you as an assassination target, preserve the part of your body that they find interesting, and fight over who gets to have it rather than do anything productive. Pretty much the face of magecraft, though very focused on Europe and unable to exert much influence in countries such as Japan. Very obviously inspired by Harry Potter, though it's more of an university setting. They also have a smaller branch in Prague.
**Atlas Institute - A vaguely Egyptian-themed underground bunker, staffed by alchemists, with less of a focus on lineage. Rather than practice through their own Magic Circuits, they specialize in the creation of tools and weapons. It is a general belief that they have too much dakka.
**Sea of Astray - Only described as a wandering mountain range, the magi in here basically isolate themselves from the modern world, to preserve as much of the mystery as possible.
*'''The Church''' - Try to be for the magical world what the Catholic Church was for Medieval Europe. Use their magic circuits to produce supernatural phenomena that they swear are totally not just magic. The exact nature of Christian faith, especially in relation to something like paganism, is shuffled around carefully. The Church does not want it to be put into question, which is why they have:
**'''Burial Agency''' - A subdivision of the Catholic Church, which deals with extermination of everything which does not belong into god's plan. They train Executors, who are badass dudes going around the world murdering vampires, natural spirits, and especially magecraft users who go out at night. Besides their base of operations in Vatican, they also employ the help of various chivalric orders around the world, in case they need to crack down on an infestation, or something. While they limit the use of Magecraft to the minimum, they also have a sub-division which is explicitly tasked with researching such techniques, even ones based on protestant faiths.
*'''Demon Hunter's Association''' - An entity dating back to the older times, breeding recessive traits through eugenics, in order to protect common humanity. Though this is a Japanese thing, it can be assumed more such groups exist elsewhere. They were various families of ordinary, if trained, humans in the past (four of them in Japan), who primarily hunted those of demonic heritage. However, over time, they gained different kinds of special powers themselves and set out to refine them. These powers are quite unique and rarely, if ever, seen elsewhere, so they probably just got them through sheer obsession. In the times past, they may have been ninjas and more traditional hunters, today they lean more towards assassination. Their children, knowing nothing but training from the day they can stand, wind up quite autistic, which is a perfect trait for a protagonist.

=== Magic in the Nasuverse ===
Most of the works in the Nasuverse feature mages as pretty important people. These mages are an intersection of the study-hard-and-experiment [[wizard]] and the you-gotta-be-born-with-it [[Sorcerer_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)|sorcerer]]. Only people with Magic Circuits are capable of magecraft, and the number and quantity of your Magic Circuits stems from both <del>eugenics</del> the mages in your family tree and sheer luck of the draw. Mages from old, powerful families have more Magic Circuits of higher quality than those from less established families, leading Mage society towards snooty aristocracy and thumbing their noses at upstarts.

Mage families in the Nasuverse are distinguished by their Magic Crests, which are like a combination family crest, spellbook library, and tattoo. The family's Magic Crest designates the inheritor of their magic tradition, with each heir performing magical research in their lifetime to modify and extend the Crest before passing it on in turn.

As for the actual magic practiced, it's not called "magic." Most of the time. The majority of what you see in the Nasuverse is referred to as "magecraft." Magecraft is distinguished from magic by the notion of "how possible it is." If your wizardry is just a faster version of something technology or human effort can do, you are a mage and you are doing magecraft. To be a magician who does magic, also known as True Magic, you must do something by mechanics that no one understands, not even you. If humans eventually learn to replicate it through mundane means -- including magecraft, which is hermetic and can be replicated by anyone with the proper power/ingredients/magical affinities -- it stops being a True Magic.

This disqualification only applies if the formula for it can be properly understood, so blind replications of True Magic are not considered to limit their status as magic. For example, there are homunculi cloned to use Heaven's Feel, as well as a magical tool that uses Kaleidoscope in a limited capacity, but none of these understand how their magic works so they remain True Magic. Even something as simple as starting a fire used to be True Magic, but as a result of humanity's progress, very few things are still so impossible as to require True Magic. It is considered the realm of miracles, and even meeting a Magician is an event worthy of legend.

There are five more or less known True Magics in the Nasuverse:
* Denial of Nothingness, the First Magic. A Magic that is still active in the world, but its users are long gone. It is suggested to be related to creation of Ether Clumps, which is to say, making magic energy out of nothing. The user of First True Magic was born the night before the calendar started, so he is most definitely ''not'' Jesus because it's off by a day.
* Kaleidoscope, the Second Magic. Also known as Zelretch, the name of the only wizard crazy enough to ever achieve it. Kaleidoscope grants access to an infinite number of parallel universes, enabling tricks like casting a spell over and over without exhausting yourself by [[What | tapping into the ambient mana of the parallel versions of the room you're currently in]]. Zeltrech disappeared into [[Warp|interdimensional hyperspace]] after discovering Kaleidoscope, and he remains there as a convenient plot hook dispenser and plot hole repairman. There's very little that he ''can'' do, because if he gives more than a slight bit of attention to a timeline, ''it becomes set in place''. like how a scientist can only confirm whether the cat in Schroedinger's experiment is alive or dead if the scientist opens the box. There's enough evidence to see why timelines like Prisma Illya even ''exist'' was because he had a direct hand in the proceedings (in that case, providing the Kaleido Sticks to Rin and Luvia). Naturally he would like to ''avoid'' looking at timelines that would, oh, awaken a certain Ultimate One from its slumber in South America prematurely...
* Heaven's Feel, the Third Magic. Discovered by the Einzberns, one of the three great mage families, this is a magic that can materialize a human soul. The Holy Grail's ability to summon Servants for the ritual of the Grail War is an application of Third Magic. In the Fate/Extra continuity, humanity achieves the Third by learning how to digitize souls, so this is the only True Magic that ever loses its status in a Nasuverse work.
* Unknown Fourth Magic. All that's known is that it hid itself right after it appeared, but 'it definitely exists'. It might be related to the concealment itself, or not.
* Magic Blue, the Fifth Magic. Supposedly relevant to time travel, enabling the user to violate conservation of energy by borrowing energy from pasts with no future. This is the least-understood of the known Magics, in no small part because it was invented in the 20th century and actually activated only in the late 80s (grandpa Aozaki invented the spell to achieve it but never used it himself, storing it in his Crest and passing it to his grand-daughter Aoko), and its acquisition may involve reaching the Root and choosing to go back in time.

Whether or not there could be more Magics after the Fifth is pure speculation (with the implication being that the number is 6).

While not True Magic, the Reality Marble is a technique that comes close in power. This is a magecraft that replaces the caster's surroundings with some other space like a temporary demiplane. Reality Marbles demonstrated in the Nasuverse range from Emiya Kiritsugu's Time Alter, a bubble that surrounds him with a faster or slower flow of time, all the way up to the legendary Unlimited Blade Works.

== Kara no Kyoukai ==
[[File:Nasuverse knkcover.jpg|300px|thumb|An actual book.]]
Kara no Kyoukai is the oldest official entry in what would become the Nasuverse. The first chapters were published way back in 1998, so they're probably older than the people reading this right now. It's so old that most people know about it from the series of seven movies by anime studio Ufotable.

The main character is Ryougi Shiki, and she has the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception. Yes, death, not depth. These are a form of magic vision that let her see the "implicit death" in all things. In less idiotically obtuse terms, she can see the lines of weakness in anything, and if she cuts them, that thing is destroyed beyond repair. Even people, ghosts, and magic phenomena have these lines, making her either an effective assassin or a supernatural problem solver.

On a narrative level, the story is told in varying degrees of out-of-chronological-order, revolving around Ryougi's experiences with the supernatural and discovery of the truth about her abilities and herself. The mechanics of the plot take a lot from Eastern mysticism's conceptions of personal identity and the soul, so the heavy reliance on Buddhist terminology makes it difficult to translate for Western minds. Expect to miss the nuance if you're unfamiliar with the terminology and the subtle implications that can be accomplished with the magic of kanji. The movies do a decent job explaining everything through visual cues, but a lot is lost in the translation. If you want to have a Zen Buddhist-themed villain Mage in WoD, though, KnK can be a great inspiration.

Anyone who calls it "The Garden of Sinners" is probably a fag. Anyone who calls it "Rakkyo" is probably a ''serious'' oldfag, a moon reader, or a hipster. The novels are officially localized, though again, they're a tough nut to properly translate, so a lot of fans aren't content with what's been put out. Official or not, you can read them, or watch the eight theatrical movies.

== Tsukihime ==
[[File:Tsukihimepromo.jpg|300px|thumb|The main cast of Tsukihime. From left to right: Yumidzuka Satsuki, Ciel, Tohno Akiha, Len, Arcueid Brunestud, Hisui, Kohaku. The redhead in the background is Aozaki Aoko, and the shadow at the top-right is Nrvnqsr Chaos (pronounced Nero).]][[File:nasuverse chrischan.jpg|300px|thumb|As you shouldn't.]]
Tsukihime is a visual novel that's one part murder mystery, one part dating simulator, and one part gothic horror. Its main character, Tohno Shiki, survives a car crash as a child and is disowned by his wealthy parents for his frail constitution. In exchange for this near-death experience, he gains the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception introduced in Kara no Kyoukai, enabling him to cut through anything. The story begins when he's called back to his family manor upon the death of the family patriarch, where he gets embroiled in the 'vampire murders' occurring throughout town. The various routes of the story either track down the culprit or ignore them in favor of digging up the Tohno family's shadowy history.

The five choices of waifu, and therefore of routes in the story, are:
* Arcueid Brunestud, vampire-hunting vampire and the last one who was born this way, which makes her a kind of nature spirit. Technically the strongest thing on Earth bar maybe a certain temporally confused alien spider.
* Ciel, ninja-nun and vampire hunter working for the Church. Can't be killed because of a glitch in the world. Finds out that Shiki's eyes can fix glitches in one bad ending (or maybe she just stays a living head, who knows). She has a strange fascination with curry.
* Tohno Akiha, Shiki's younger sister and, after Shiki was disowned for being too sickly, heiress to the Tohno family fortune. She's used to acting the part of a financial conglomerate ''ojou''.
* Hisui, Maid One of the pair remaining at the Tohno family mansion. She's quiet and keeps things formal. A poor cook, but excellent around the house.
* Kohaku, Maid Two at the Tohno mansion. She's the cheery big sister type to contrast Hisui's cool exterior. Her cleaning skills are horrendous, but she's the best in the kitchen and the garden.

Other waifus featured are Aozaki Aoko, a mentor figure Shiki met when he was still recovering from his ''accident'', and Yumidzuka Satsuki, the designated classmate love interest. They don't get routes, so they don't count, and Satsuki not having a route is a common subject of memes among Nasuverse fans.

Picking a waifu from the five above sets you on one of the story's routes, which are organized into the Near Side (Arcueid, Ciel) or Far Side (Akiha, Hisui, Kohaku). The Near Side routes focus on investigating the vampire murders in town and explains a lot of the mechanics of vampires in the Nasuverse, while the Far Side investigates the mysteries of the Tohno family. It's strongly recommended that you read the novel in the recommended order above, because the entire teenage vampire romance thing is just a bait on the hook trying to get nerds to read about something '''VERY''' different.

Overall, Tsukihime is a respectable visual novel and interesting if only so you can see how far Type-Moon has come from their beginnings hucking demos at Comiket. Its contained and minimalist nature helps it work out a lot, making it a lot more subtle than the loud idealist speeches and overexplaining everything you may be used to from Fate. On the other hand, there isn't exactly enough content to fill up five entire routes of story (80% of the Kohaku route is nigh-identical to the Hisui route), so going from one route on the same Side to the other(s) will involve judicious use of the fast-forward button.

If all you care about is shitposting, "Can Shiki kill Servants" is one of the fastest ways to start fights among Nasuverse geeks, and any relevant discussion quickly devolves into a total clownshow of powerlevel arguments.

=== Near Side ===
The Near Side routes focus on the vampiric threat in the city and the hunters dealing with it. The antagonist is Michael Roa Valdamjong, a vampire and one of the few in the Nasuverse to achieve immortality (kinda; a recurring theme in the Nasuverse is that immortality is not a thing, and even if your body doesn't decay, your soul always rots eventually). Roa's immortality allows him to continue his life by reincarnating into the body of a specially prepared host, usually a child so people ask fewer questions. He has a hateboner for Arcueid, who has sworn to hunt him down each time he reincarnates, and their conflict goes back generations. Meanwhile, Ciel is investigating the vampire murders on orders of the holy Church and trying to rope Shiki into being her partner.

Highlights of the Near Side include death by shark attack on the upper floors of a hotel with no aquarium, the use of [[What|anal sex to slow down a progressing vampiric possession]], and a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeiSVFrl_sI&t=4m10s real eyesore of a chair].

=== Far Side ===
Roa does not make an appearance in these routes (let alone [[/co/|Gary Larson]]). Instead, it's revealed he attempted to reincarnate into the most magically gifted child of the Tohno family, a bloodline that's already exceptional due to mingling with oni. Unlike the Near Side, where he succeedeed in extinguishing the kid's soul, the Far Side allows the Tohno scion to leverage his demon blood to resist the vampire and expel him. Unfortunately, half-oni seriously struggle with controlling their [[Rip and tear|violently psychotic impulses]] for the rest of their lives once they embrace their nature. The entire Tohno bloodline is half-oni. You do the math.

These routes explore the dark history of the household, shed light on Shiki's origins, let you sleep with the maids, and are generally a beautiful trip down "going batshit insane" lane.

=== Kagetsu Tohya ===
A proper sequel of sorts to Tsukihime, with quite a bit more art, music, and less dour atmosphere. It could be considered a fanservice disc, if not for the fact that it is quite a bit more intimately tied to Tsukihime's cast than Hollow Ataraxia is to Fate, going into their backgrounds more than Tsukihime could, and even tying up some legitimate loose ends, such as a short story set after Akiha's True Ending. Tsukihime was horror, and less is more in horror, so we instead get Kagetsu Tohya, which explores the world of Tsukihime in a way that the work itself couldn't afford to.

Kagetsu Tohya is generally split into two parts:
*Ten Nights of a Dream: Isolated stories to be read, some of them fanfiction made canon, but often pretty sizeable. They are unlocked as the player chews through the main story.
*Twilight Grass Moon, Fairy Tale Princess: The main story focuses on our protagonist, Tohno Shiki, who, half a year after the events of Tsukihime, finds himself endlessly reliving a single day of his daily life. Rather than a normal Groundhog Day scenario, though, he is caught in a dream, and the other characters with him. A dream somebody has trapped them in, for some reason. This is a problem, since Shiki's subconscious is a dark place, and he won't be allowed to leave until he confronts some of those repressed inner demons.

=== Tsukihime 2: The Dark Six ===
[[File:Nasuverse tsuki2.jpg|200px|thumb|Things that may never happen, but have been teased before.]]
Kagetsu Tohya included a teaser for Tsukihime 2, which would never be made. Tsukihime Plus Period, the data-book akin to Character Material for other titles, included the prologue to Tsukihime 2, 'Talk'. Overall, not only is there a surprisingly high amount of information available, but it seems that the nonexistent story of Tsukihime 2 is referenced and even bleeds into the other works, which actually exist.

The story of Tsukihime 2 revolves around the Aylesbury Ritual, wherin several powerful Dead Apostles gather to summon The Dark Six, an entity that would bring salvation to the Dead Apostles. This ritual has incidentally been carried out and apparently botched in Fate/Extra, resulting in a polar shift and draining of all of the world's prana.

Tsukihime 2 has two protagonists, of which the first is Enhance, who is quite literally Vampire Dante From the Devil May Cry Series. He is a vampire that goes around with a sword and a shotgun killing other vampires. The other protagonist might be Shiki, or somebody else, since Shiki by the time of Tsukihime 2 is so overpowered his glasses no longer work and he has to blind himself with magic bandages to suppress his eyes. Two heroines we know of are Bartholomeloi Lorelei, basically the purest blood magus in the world, and Altrogue Brunestud, Arcueid's sister, and the second in line to become Crimson Moon. From the Prologue it also seems that Ciel has a fairly large role in the story, possibly being the other protagonist herself.

=== Melty Blood ===
[[File:Nasuverse riesterms.jpg|300px|thumb|Neither of these will be mentioned again.]]
A sequel-spinoff series that continues where one of the routes left off. Which one? [[What|The Satsuki route, which doesn't exist]]. It started as a VN with a janky fighting game stapled to it, but later releases smoothed the gameplay until it was more like the Tsukihime Fighting Game than it was a VN you had to do fights to get through. Now there's a Melty Blood manga that goes over the original stuff, so you can just read that instead of playing badly made fighting games.

The main story is famous for a few things, among which is invoking several fresh new words and ideas which would never be brought up again, and many of which would be contradicted by Fate, as the Tsuki-side seems to have been abandoned by Type-Moon for FGO bucks. In Melty, the town of Misaki where both Tsukihime and Mahoyo are set is visited by an alchemist, Sion Eltnam Atlasia. It turns out that the town has been chosen as a spot for the next manifestation of Night of Wallachia - a powerful vampire who takes the form of people's greatest fears. This is likely because certain people in Misaki have dangerous amounts of knowledge of the truly terrifying parts of the setting, and he hopes to use those fears to acquire some overpowered ability that would let him progress his research.

Wallachia, or Zepia Eltnam Oberon, you see, used to be a magus, an alchemist, and a scientist. With the infinite power of math, he has calculated the inevitability of the [[Vampire:_The_Masquerade#Gehenna:_the_end_of_the_Masquerade|apocalypse]], in Tsuki-side called The Sixth, and sought immortality by means of vampirism to help avert it. The Night of Wallachia is a roulette of sorts like that, meant to collect data, except that the guy running has long since gone batshit insane.<br>
Resolving this situation, however, is just the Story Mode of the first title, and nowhere near where the entire storyline ends. What follows after this one is spread across the individual Arcade Modes and victory quotes (that's not a joke) of fifteen to thirty one characters across three different games, and no one can be expected to remember all of it, including the makers. As such, Melty lore contains some of the most obscure stuff in the setting. Not the ''deepest lore'' mind you, just the stuff no one could be bothered to remember.
[[File:Neco arc devil monster.mp4|300px|thumb|A take on the average alignment of the neco characters in Melty Blood.]]
Melty Blood is notable for its long, seemingly nonsensical titles, and was supposed to get a new title in the 2010s. The first catch is that Type-Moon wanted the characters in the new Melty to have the [[Skub|Remake designs]], which would be easy. The other catch is that they wanted it to adhere to the Remake lore, which was impossible, because there was no Remake for the longest time. When the Remake ''finally'' came out, so did the new Melty Blood title, set as a what-if before Tsukihime. The new title, Melty Blood: Type Lumina, has recently brought the [[Daemon]] known as Neco-Arc back into the public consciousness. Expect gremlin cats to scour through 4chan for the next ̶𝚖̶𝚘̶𝚗̶𝚝̶𝚑̶ year(s?) or so.

=== The Tsukihime Remake ===
[[File:Rena 2003.png|300px|thumb|Click to die instantly.]]
A remake of Tsukihime was announced. In 2008. The massive success of the Fate side of the franchise put it on ice for over a decade before finally being released in Summer 2021, albeit in parts.

Updated character designs were revealed in 2013 and [[skub|earned a lot of flak for changing things that didn't really need to be changed]]. Later announcements included entirely new characters and the news that some old Tsukihime lore would be discarded -- namely replacing some of the lamer Dead Apostle Ancestors with cooler ones.

The Summer 2021 release, "Tsukihime: A Piece of Blue Glass Moon" remade the Near Side (Arc and Ciel) routes. It happened. The Arc route has since been fan-translated by Tsukihimates, with Ciel's apparently soon to follow. Revealed in a trailer after the game finishes, The Far Side routes will be in their own release, but there's no date on that yet. [[Epic|Also, Satsuki's getting her route.]]
<br>

== Fate ==
Fate is the biggest part of the Nasuverse and the one most people know. It started as a visual novel all the way back into 2004, and has since ballooned out into a money-printing machine with an uncountable number of spinoff series. Entries in the Fate series are distinguished from one another by the text after the slash (/). You have Fate/Stay Night, Fate/Zero, Fate/Extra, Fate/Hollow Ataraxia... and most infamously, Fate/Grand Order. So no, it's not Fate Stay/Night. The series is called Fate.

The big focus of the Fate series is the Holy Grail War, in which seven mages get together in a not-that-big city in Japan and summon legendary heroes as their bodyguards and warriors. All of them duke it out for the right to touch the Holy Grail. Last man standing gets to wish for whatever they want. The whole thing was put together a couple hundred years ago by three of the great mage families in an effort to reach the deepest truth of the universe, known as the Root. The War part got involved when they got close to the finish line and started fighting to be the ones who actually got to cross it.

===All About Servants and the Grail War===
A total of seven mages are selected to fight in the Grail War. Each one summons one hero, known as a Servant, and acts as their Master. It's the Master's job to strategize during the war, and the Servant's job to actually engage in combat. All Masters are given a set of three Command Spells, usually taking the form of tattoo-like symbols on their arm/hand by the Holy Grail upon selection. These Command Spells have several functions. The first and most important function is that it is effectively the contract between Servant and Master (and identifies Masters as such to others). Any individual with at least one Command Spell may create new contracts with other Master-less Servants provided both parties consent (which is why enemy Masters are usually targeted over their Servants). The second major function is that an individual Command Spell can be spent to issue an absolute order to their Servants. An order issued this way will force a Servant, willing or otherwise, to follow through on the command given. If it's against their desires, a Servant can attempt to resist the order, but ultimately they will be compelled to carry it out until it has either been accomplished or the command redacted by the Master. Lastly, as Command Spells are made of magical energies provided by the Holy Grail, a Master can expend them to supplement their own magecraft or their Servant's strength for a significant, albeit temporary, power boost.

Every Servant gets a Noble Phantasm, their greatest attack or ability. Revealing your Servant's Noble Phantasm is pretty much a dead giveaway as to their identity, because by definition an NP is something that most defined the Servant when they were alive. Most Masters keep this close to their chest for as long as they can, because all of a Servant's weaknesses from their old legend ''still apply''.

Traditionally, Servants summoned in a standard Holy Grail War belong to one of seven classes. Fate/Grand Order split them up into subcategories for the sake of implementing some gameplay balance ala Rock-Paper-Scissors, which will be reflected here:

[[File:ServantClass.jpg|300px|thumb|The seven classes of Servant. From top-center going clockwise, they're Saber, Lancer, Rider, Assassin, Berserker, and Caster, with Archer in the center.]]
====The Knight Classes====
* [[Fighter|Saber]], for swordsmen. "Saber" is a class and not a weapon because Nasu probably did an Engrish and thought the -er ending meant it was a name for someone trained in swordplay the same way archer is a name for someone who does archery. Considered the "strongest" class, mostly because it's well-rounded and heroes who qualify tend to be pretty strong and well-known, or the strongest incarnations of themselves. Among the most bloated of the classes, but some notable examples include Sigurd, Gawain, Rama, Julius Caesar and Lancelot. In FGO, Sabers beat Lancers and are in turn beaten by Archers, and focus on sudden burst damage through critical hits.
* [[Lance|Lancer]], a class for fast guys with long poking sticks. Lancers are commonly drawn from Gaelic myth. Their being Irish is something fans take the piss out of really often, because most of them have absolutely horrible luck. Despite the name, [[Derp|most, if not all, of the servants summoned as this class technically use]] [[Spear]]s and [[Polearm]]s rather than proper jousting lances (hell, out of the 40 or so Lancers available in F/GO, only ''two'' of them use actual lances, horseback and all, and they're technically the same (wo)man). Some other potential Lancers include Percival, Romulus, Hektor and Leonidas. Strong against Archers and weak against Sabers.
* [[Ranger|Archer]], the biggest meme of a class. The Archer from the first entry in the series spends most of his fights dual-wielding swords, and the Archer in the prequel doesn't even use a bow, preferring to fire swords as projectiles with magic. To Nasu's credit, Archers introduced in later titles would actually use bows (and in a couple of cases, a sling or a crossbow) as per their class title, and lore introduced in F/GO would acknowledge the growing prevalence of firearms. Still, the meme persists as it also includes the likes of [[Wat|jewelry-throwers, dolpin trainers]], and [[Dakka|Nerf Gatling Guns]]. Their signature class skill is Independent Action, making them less-reliant on their Master sugar momma/daddies for magical energy and better able to operate off on their own. The only catch is that this makes Archers more likely to work on their own agendas with or without their master's blessing. Aside Gilgamesh, some other noteworthy Archers are Tristan, Arjuna, Robin Hood and even Billy the Kid. F/GO sees Archers beat Sabers and get beaten by Lancers, and their abilities mean that their crits hit harder compared to other classes.
====The Cavalry Classes====
* [[Cavalier|Rider]], for pretty much anyone who's associated with a vehicle or mount. World-conquering leaders, famous pirates... Even being an infamous slut (i.e. "riding" people) is enough to qualify a hero for this class. The ''actual'' most well-rounded class, tending towards balanced stats, good mixtures of class skills, and more Noble Phantasms on average than anyone else. As one might expect, their signature class skill is [[Derp|Riding]], which gives them innate know-how on commandeering any sort of vehicle. Prominent Riders include Captain Nemo, Edward Teach (Blackbeard), Saint Georgios and Odysseus. Riders beat Assassins and have a disadvantage against Casters, and true to form their stats and abilities tend to be the most balanced of the lot.
* [[Assassin]], for the most legendarily dick-assed of dick-ass thieves. Per the "rules" of the original Grail War, an Assassin-class Servant is always one of the leaders of Hashshashin, all of whom took the name and identity of Hassan-i Sabbah. Because this would've meant an entire class would have a stupidly low pool compared to everyone else and lock out neat ideas (early information suggested Herakles would qualify), later entries retconned this to a unique feature of the Fuyuki Grail, with later entries introducing a wide variety of professional killers, martial arts masters, sneaks, and general murderers. Their signature class skill is Presence Concealment, which lets them turn invisible and not trip alarms, though actually attacking tends to break concealment... also rather like ''D&D''. They'd lose against most Servants in a straight-up fight, which is why they prioritize attacking Masters instead: even the highest ranks of Independent Action above only give a Servant a day at best if their Master croaks. Some examples of non-Hassan assassins include the Phantom of the Opera, Cleopatra, Mata Hari and Carmilla. Assassins have an advantage against Casters and are beaten by Riders, and their attacks and abilities make their team more likely to crit.
* [[Wizard|Caster]], for anyone actually good at magic. Artists, scientists and writers get to come too; the class is technically the broadest in terms of qualifications, though if you didn't actually know magic [[nerf| you're probably going to have weaker class skills in exchange for whatever weird thing you can do]]. Mocked for being fucked in the meta, since four of the seven core classes get free Magic Resistance as part of the deal, but they tend to have the ability to really turtle up in exchange, making a fortress-hideout and magical items with their Territory Creation and Item Construction skills... not unlike 3.5 wizards, really. A couple random examples include Merlin, Mozart, Asclepius, Hans Christian Andersen and even a weird incarnation of Thomas Edison. F/GO Casters beat Assassins while being beaten by Riders, and usually trade out offensive power over buffing their teammates (Hell, most of the highest-tier servants tend to be Casters ''because'' of their buffs).
====The Berserker Class====
* [[Berserker]], a class for heroes with varying levels of [[RAGE]] and/or general insanity. Berserkers range from incoherent roaring monster-men to "coherent every now and then," quantified by their Mad Enhancement class skill's rating. High Mad Enhancement strengthens them more, but makes them more difficult to control and harder to understand (either because they can only roar/growl or their speech generally focuses on whatever they're obsessed with). Originally a [[template]] that could be applied to any heroic spirit, trading sanity for increased performance, later stories instead focus on heroic spirits whose legends involves rage and madness (not to mention that constant roaring made for poor characterization). They also have a reputation for killing their summoners, either directly or by being mana hogs who suck their magical energy dry, whether accidentally or intentionally. Such angry boys and girls can include Beowulf, Darius III, Caligula and a ''very'' loose interpretation of Paul Bunyan. Berserkers have a Glass Cannon relationship with most of the other classes of F/GO, dealing extra damage to them in exchange for receiving extra damage from them as well. Berserkers make up for it by killing the enemy on the first turn, or simply not ''staying'' dead.

Fate is the most directly /tg/ subset of the Nasuverse, since Servants are traditionally given character sheets with ability scores, skills, and even alignments. These sheets aren't constructed according to the rules of any known RPG (while the base alignments are pretty standard ''D&D'', one Berserker has the alignment Lawful Mad), but it's fun to speculate about what kind of abilities these would actually correspond to within a real game.

=== Fate/Stay Night ===
[[File:FSNposter.jpg|220px|thumb|Say what you will about Takeuchi's intense sameface, he's got good character design.]]
Fate/Stay Night was the original work in the Fate series, released as a visual novel in 2004. It's where you get ancient memes like "People die when they are killed," and "I am the bone of my sword." The Holy Grail War depicted in F/SN is the Fifth Grail War, and it features the following heroes:

* Saber - King Arthur, but ''a girl.'' Her Noble Phantasm is Excalibur, which manifests its power in a slash that "cuts through everything." [[What | The actual attack is a gigantic laser beam that vaporizes whatever she points it at]], leading to F/GO's running gag where [[Lulz|you're only a real Saber if you fire sword beams of any sort]]. Heroine of the first story route, and one of the most popular (and lazily copied) characters in modern Japanese pop culture, Saber is an endearingly-earnest knightly woman type.
* Archer - [REDACTED]. Archer actually isn't a legendary hero at all. At least, he's not a legend in the time Fate/Stay Night takes place. Impossible to discuss without getting too deep into spoiler territory, the original Archer is a complicated figure who varies widely between story arcs.
* Lancer - Cu Chulainn. His Noble Phantasm is the spear <del>Gay Bulge</del> Gae Bolg. The one who began the trend of Lancer's having E-Rank Luck, but goes out like a man in every major route, earning much fan respect.
* Rider - Medusa. Why? Because Pegasus was born when she was decapitated, so she gets to use it as her Noble Phantasm even if she isn't Perseus. Draws on a wider variety of sources than the Athenian version you're probably most familiar with, ultimately cobbling them together into a coherent story of a fallen former heroine who turned into a monster in life, which is also why she's not got the snake-hair yet (though her very long hair gives the impression in a fight). The sexy one, she serves as an obstacle that lets another character show off how cool they are by beating her in all but one major story route.
* Caster - Medea. She's still bitter about Jason cucking her, so she maintains a sadistic streak. Her Noble Phantasm lets her sever magical contracts, which gets ''real fun'' when you remember that those are what bind Servants to Masters. Like Rider, she serves as a major roadblock partway through every major story branch, but unlike Rider doesn't have one where she allies with the protagonists and gets to show off.
* Assassin - Sasaki Koijrou, autistic samurai. Trained so hard with his weeaboo stick that he developed the ability to make three sword slices simultaneously, which is the closest thing he gets to a Noble Phantasm. Pretty chill guy who just loves to fight, but it turns out Caster took advantage of the mis-firing Grail War system to summon him herself and bind him to her base's front door, so he doesn't get to do much besides serve as the odd boss fight a few times.
* Berserker - Herakles. He's too angry to use a weapon well enough to bring out its potential as a Noble Phantasm, so instead he gets a shitload of extra lives based on his Twelve Tasks. Theoretically unstoppable, he dies to let another character show off how cool and dangerous they are in every story route. Turns out Berserker is one of his ''worst'' classes, Archer being his best fit, which is ironic because he was summoned by a "family" that participated in every Grail War, brought powerful non-Berserker heroes, still lost and finally decided "fuck it, clearly this beamsword trickery doesn't work, why don't we just summon an extremely powerful hero with a passive NP that's always active and give them even ''more'' stats as a Berserker?".
* Archer 2 - Yes there are more than seven servants. This guy was the Archer in the Fourth Grail War and managed to gain a physical body allowing him to remain in the world. He is Gilgamesh. As pretty much the first hero ever recorded, he's "King of Heroes." His Noble Phantasm is the Gate of Babylon, which lets him pull any kind of weapon he wants out of the ether. He's the original hero, so of course all other legends are derived from him, which means he has the original versions. Basically, he could win fair, but he cheats anyway. He's too arrogant to swordfight with these treasures, so he earns Archer status by launching them at his enemies.
* True Assassin - An assassin summoned during one of the routes after the much cooler Sasaki Koijrou is killed. He actually is one of the leaders of the Hashshashin. He manages to beat Lancer AND Saber via cleverly leading them into traps and taking advantage of his Noble Phantasm and immunity to projectile attacks. His proper title is Hassan of the Cursed Arm, whose Noble Phantasm manifests as [[Faptau|an extra-long right arm]] that allows him to crush your heart if he so much as touches you with it. F/GO reveals that he's actually quite an [[Kharn|affable, honorable guy]] when you're not on his hitlist, and he more or less got an entire story arc to himself. Atta boy.

There are also a whole fuckload of additional Servant classes (called Extra Classes) but they don't show up in F/SN.

Yes, that girl with the platemail-dress combo is King Arthur. The original novel actually puts a great deal of thought into this, with her whole character and backstory being deeply informed by having been a woman in a traditionally-masculine role who hid her gender from all but her closest confidants her entire life, though later titles were much more cavalier about it. It's still a sticking point for a lot of people only tangentially aware of the franchise though, and the fact that Artoria is a beloved company mascot (and Type/MOON artist Takeuchi's favorite character ever) does her no favors. For instance, that they were lazily coming up with excuses to clone her and reuse her character design was an old hat joke as early as 2015, but they keep on doing it anyway. Here in 2022, Artoria now has at least one variant/version of herself summonable in F/GO as every standard Servant class and has numerous other "Saber-face" clone characters who, while they aren't specifically her character, look borderline identical to her, bar personality differences. Almost every Fate series has at ''least'' one character that either is her or looks like her. They print out copies of her out like she's a goddamn currency at this point (not entirely exaggeration either; one event in F/GO even had her cowlicks as the event-only currency).

This also started the ''Fate'' franchise's long love-affair with gender-flipping other historical characters. While in later titles, this was done in a mixture of cynical sex appeal-adding and the high-minded goal of making human history and mythology less of a goddamn sausage-fest, here it was done during the retool from their original plans as part of trying to make the title more marketable. Nasu's original plan was actually to have the main character be a girl and keep King Arthur as an actual king, but his artist and comrade Takeuchi convinced him they would do much better in the VN market if the protagonist was a male the audience could project on, and King Arthur was a girl. And thus, history was made.

All that aside, the actual plot of Fate/Stay Night follows Emiya Shirou, a boy who was adopted by Emiya Kiritsugu when the fallout from the Fourth Grail War turned Shirou's neighborhood into a burning hellscape. Ten years later, he gets wrapped up in the aforementioned Fifth Grail War when he unwittingly summons Saber. Oh, and that Archer has a very burning hatred of him for some reason...

Almost all the characters are popular in their own right and frequently show up in spin-off material.

=== Fate/Hollow Ataraxia ===
A loose sequel to Fate/Stay Night, released not long after, and probably required reading if you liked the above. A fanservice disc in one part, and a backside of the original story in the other. Long after the Holy Grail War, Emiya Shirou is caught in a looping world of four days, which appears to be a mesh of every route, including ones which don't exist, all due to what seems to be a catastrophic miscast on Rin's part, and everyone gets into wacky hijinks.

In truth, the situation is much more complicated. The real story follows Bazett Fraga McRemitz, Lancer's original master, who should have been dead. In Hollow Ataraxia, she is brought back to life by what seems to be a mysterious, irregular, weak, and very angry Servant calling himself Avenger Together they go on a journey through the Holy Grail War's history in an attempt to untangle the mess of the ritual ''properly''.

Hollow Ataraxia has a full translation patch, you can play it. Voice acting was absent until the Vita rerelease, but patches have been made backporting it to the PC. The game would retroactively introduce the "eighth" servant class, and the one ultimately responsible for screwing up the Grail Wars in the Fate timeline:
*'''Avenger''': Don't think this is about [[Marvel Comics|superheroes]], servants summoned as this class [[Edgy|desire nothing but revenge, no matter how high the cost]]. They're so obsessed with getting even that [[Grimdark|the Grail War forbids anyone from summoning them as they're near-impossible to control...]] which is exactly what happened in the Third Grail War. The Avenger summoned in that case was Angra Mainyu ([[Skub|or <s>Angry Manjew</s>Aŋra Mainiiu if you want to be pedantic]]), the big evil cheese of Zoroastrianism. The people who summoned him expected a "god of evil", but all they got was some no-name villager that was once used as a scapegoat for "all the world's evil" and was promptly krumped... but the Grail viewed him as a mortal and granted the wish for all the world's evil, dooming the later Grail wars until he was dealt with. F/GO would at least poke fun at their inherent edginess by making them utter dorks when off the clock, and [[Dawww|genuinely viewing you as their friend if their affection was high enough]]. Their revenge ultimately trumps all else, though they'll at least make your death quick and/or painless. Aside Hollow Ataraxia's namesake Avenger, other notable Avengers include Edmond Dantes and Antonio Salieri. Avengers deal extra Damage against Rulers while being countered by Moon Cancers, and reduce their team's debuff resistance in exchange for activating their Noble Phantasms sooner, typically by gaining more energy from getting hit.

No adaptations of Hollow Ataraxia exist. Read the real thing.

=== Fate/Zero ===
[[File:FateDungeonBypass.jpg|220px|thumb|Kiritsugu deals with mages, Shadowrun style.]]

Fate/Zero is the prequel to Fate/Stay Night dedicated to exploring the backstory of Shirou's adoptive dad Kiritsugu. Originally released as a light novel in 2006, it got an anime in 2011. This was the first serious try at adapting Fate to anime since the disastrous 2004 adaptation of Fate/Stay Night. This has earned a position of major skubbery among Fate fans, since it brought in huge numbers of newfags. This entry in the Nasuverse tends to [[skub|start arguments]] about what amount of [[edgelord|edge]] is acceptable in the Nasuverse and whether or not Fate/Zero has too much of it. This owes to Zero's actual writing being done not by Nasu, but by Gen "The Urobutcher" Urobuchi. Yes, the Madoka guy. The one infamous for killing characters to generate easy drama because he can't figure out any other way to move the plot forward. Zero is still like that.

Anyway, Zero is about the Grail War that Kiritsugu participated in and that ended up with him adopting Shirou. Kiritsugu is a hardass who doesn't play by hoity-toity mage rules. Of the seven mages fighting in the Grail War, he's the only one using guns, and spends most of the time with his servant on the Sidelines while he handles things with [[/k/|firepower]]. He's pretty much playing [[Shadowrun]] while the rest of them are pretending to be [[Harry Potter]] villains.

Zero's cast of Servants is as follows:

* Saber - King Arthur. This is where we first hear of her as the "King of Knights." A lot of her relationship with Kiritsugu is post-facto foreshadowing and ironic reversals of her relationship with Shirou in Stay Night.
* Archer - Gilgamesh. This is the same arrogant dick from Stay Night. He summoned by a Master hoping for an easy victory, but barely lifts a finger to help him. Gradually develops an evil friendship with his buddy Kirei Kotomine.
* Lancer - Diarmuid ua Duibhne. If you thought Cu got it bad in Stay Night, very few suffer more than ol' Deermud. His Noble Phantasm is basic, but pretty useful: a pair of spears, one of which prevents any wound it makes from healing, and another that renders magical defenses powerless with a touch.
* Rider - Iskandar. This is Alexander the Great at the height of his empire, so he goes by the name the Persians called him. He rounds out the trio of kings in Zero as "King of Conquerors." His Noble Phantasm is a Reality Marble that lets him call up everybody that's ever fought by his side in the past for a good old-fashioned gang beating.
* Caster - Gilles de Rais. The famous murder-rapist of children maintains his fetish for Joan of Arc. When he crosses paths with Saber, he mistakes her for his beloved Jeanne. He gets command of lots of tentacles via the actual Necronomicon and continues to spend most of his time murdering children, but since he's not a proper fit for the Caster class... he's effectively a one-trick pony with that book.
* Assassin - Hassan of the Many Faces. Instead of one assassin, this Servant gives the Master access to a whole mess of Assassins that lack the superhuman abilities of a Servant. Their disposability makes them useful as scouts.
* Berserker - Lancelot. He spends most of the series incognito, only revealing his identity for a final duel against Saber. Notable for using his Noble Phantasm to [[awesome|hijack an F-15 fighter jet, dogfight with it against Gilgamesh, then turn it against Saber.]]

=== Fate/Extra ===
An alternate timeline spin-off for the PSP set in the Moon Cell, a supercomputer that is also the Moon. Rather than a free-for-all between seven Master/Servant pairs, this Holy Grail War is set up as a single-elimination tournament. Each week, one Master is paired up with one opponent, and so every week the number of Masters halves after the life-or-death duels.

The gameplay is sort of crap, involving a lot of grind in not-very-interesting geometric environments, but people like it because it's one of the very, very few games in the Nasuverse with an official English translation. Arcueid and Ryougi make cameo appearances, with Arcueid featured as a Berserker in one of the routes and Ryougi as a secret boss in the otherwise-unexplained Monster class. This was the first entry in the series to explore the backstory of Stay Night's Archer.

Fate/Extra has a sequel, Fate/Extra CCC, which was not and still isn't in English. The best you get is playthroughs on Youtube with subtitles superimposed on the game text. Most have added the CCC fan translation to the "never ever" pile alongside the Tsukihime Remake. This is kind of a shame, because the opinion among grognards is that CCC constitutes Nasu's last great work, retroactively making all the grind in the first Extra game worth it.

CCC is followed by ''Fate/Extella Link: Umbral Star'', a musou-type game that takes place after Extra and CCC, and ''Fate/Extella Link'', a true sequel that deals with the aftermath of CCC, and introduces, among other things ''two'' versions of Charlemagne.

A remake of the first game as Fate/Extra Record has been announced, with an English release more or less confirmed from announcement (no official statement, but the official website has an English option). Unfortunately, a CCC remake [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_Gk1-hESqw&t=1067 is in doubt because it would be too lewd]. Blame Sony.

The EXTRA series, aside from introducing now series-standbys like Emperor Nero and Altera/Atilla The Hun, introduces two unusual Servant classes to serve as its antagonists:

* '''Moon Cancer''': A glitch in the matrix, so to speak, the Moon Cancer is a servant class representing a hostile entity trying to take over the functions of the Moon Cell supercomputer. In the EXTRA games, this is a boss-only class held by both BB and Kiara Seshyoin, and for the longest time was considered one of the ''rarest'' of Servant classes in Fate/GO. In the latter game, for some reason, it is strong against the Avenger class, but is weak to Rulers (though this makes sense at least knowing that Rulers are meant to deal with Grail War aberrations).
* '''Alter-Ego:''' The Alter-Ego is what happens when a splice happens between multiple Spirit Origins, some of them divine in nature, to create a brand-new personality, and are [[Min-max]]ed up the wazoo. In the EXTRA games, various aspects of BB's persona (her Lust, her Greed, etc.) get mashed together with bits and pieces of goddesses from varying pantheons to create the Sakura Five (Meltylyris, Passionlip, etc.), while in Fate/Grand Order, this class includes beings who've subsumed divine origins through different means (see Ashiya Douman literally ''eating'' Aztec God Itzpapalotl and Slavic God Chernobog). In Fate/GO, Alter-Egos are strong against the three Cavalry classes, but are weak to the three Knight classes.

=== Fate/Apocrypha ===
An alternate timeline spinoff where a mage from the Yggdmillennia family worked with the Nazis to steal the Greater Grail in Fuyuki during WW2, resulting in the 4th and 5th Grail Wars never occurring. Instead, when it came time for a new Holy Grail War, this mage arranged it so that all seven servants would be summoned by fellow mages from the Yggdmillennia family as a single united force and dared the Mage's Association to try to stop them (Black Faction). The grail, noticing that all the summoned servants had banded together in a breach of protocol, triggered a failsafe that allowed seven ''more'' servants to be summoned in opposition of the originals (Red Faction, [[/v/|no relation]]), with the intent for the war to dissolve into a fairly standard "last-man standing" grail war once the factions were broken up, to be overseen by an impartial Grail-aligned Ruler-class servant. Notable in that it featured two teams of seven Master-Servant pairs (one in each of the Seven classes to a side) and the new Ruler class.

Though a potentially interesting take on the more "traditional" Grail War concept, this entry was generally panned by the community for the mediocre writing and is most notable for its introduction of more [[Skub|high-powerlevel Servants]], as well as an outpouring of weeaboo [[RAGE]] when Jeanne D'Arc, one of Fate's poster girls and a fan favorite, hooked up with a random [[Mary Sue]] homunculus named Sieg that nobody even liked in the first place.

Because there are ''fourteen'' Servants involved in this spinoff (not counting Jeanne, as she's supposed to be neutral), we had to cut this part down to a few of Servants of note, either because of oddities or [[Meme|memetic]] contributions;
*Saber of Red - Mordred. Just like her "father", Mordred is a genderbent version of her traditional interpretation. She and her master (a [[Awesome|bounty hunting necromancer who uses a shotgun that shoots fingers as slugshots]]) operate independently from the rest of the Red Faction and serve as the protagonists from their faction. She ''was'' supposed to remain male during development, but since she would have debuted alongside Astolfo below and putting one femboy too many, something had to give. F/GO finally lets her meet with dear old "dad" (multiple versions of her no less), to Artoria's disdain whether it was due to the whole shebang at Camlann or Mordred stealing things from the treasury again.
*Rider of Black - Astolfo. One of Charlemagne's Paladins and a complete [[/d/|trap]]. His master really likes to force herself on him, to his chagrin. Takes a liking to Sieg and helps him escape the Yggdmillenia manor. Astolfo's popularity is such that not only is he now the effective face for the term "femboy", he has all but erased the traditional character from the Matter of France from the face of the internet.
*Assassin of Red - Semiramis, The Wise Queen of Assyria. Is the loyal second in command of the Red Faction, having been summoned by Shirou Kotomine as his personal Servant. Her Noble Phantasm, the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, is a literal flying fortress that functions as the Red Faction's base of operations. While Servants can be summoned in other Classes if their legends allow it, Semiramis is unique in that she's one of the few Servants who can genuinely [[Multiclass]] as is, both as an Assassin ''and'' a Caster in her case, which is a good thing for the Red Faction as their ''actual'' Caster, William Shakespeare himself, is completely useless both due to [[derp|bad storywriting]] and [[Lulz|personal choice]].

Other Characters:
*Sieg - A formerly nameless homunculus from the Black Faction who managed to escape from his stasis tube before being harvested. When attempting to stumble out of the complex, Astolfo takes pity on him and helps him escape. Ultimately, one of the masters from Yggdmillenia finds him and accidentally destroys his heart with a magically charged punch, prompting Saber of Black/Siegfried to transplant his own heart into the dying homunculus. This, naturally, grants him immediate strength and revitalizes Sieg, [[bullshit|altering his projected standard lifespan of 3 years to just under 100 and giving him the ability to transform into Siegfried for 3 minutes at the cost of a Command Spell]]. This character receives a fair amount of (justifiable) hate due to his non-existent personality and the sheer number of abilities and skills just ''piled'' on him simply from the virtue of being in the right place at the right time. Jeanne also inexplicably develops a crush on him halfway through the series.
*Jeanne d'Arc - Token Saber-face of the show (alongside Mordred), Jeanne is the Ruler-class servant summoned by the Grail to oversee the Great Grail War and as it's impartial judge which she... only kind of does. For the first half of the story she attempts to remain impartial and she does (temporarily) unite servants from both factions against a greater threat. But, between her growing attachment for Sieg and revelations about Shirou Kotomine's true nature result in her effectively siding with the Black Faction.
*Shirou Kotomine - Despite his stage name, Shirou is not related to the Fate/Stay Night Shirou ''or'' Kotomine in any way. A representative of the Church and commander of the Red Faction, Shirou usurps control of all the Red Faction servants from their respective masters (except Mordred and her Master, due to them wisely suspecting Shirou having ulterior motives). Is effectively the main antagonist of Apocrypha. His ''true'' identity is Ruler Amakusa Shirou, rebel leader and the ''apocrypha''l patron saint of Japanese Catholics, summoned in lieu of Avenger during the third Grail War and managed to persist after it. That Shirou was summoned "first" also results in Jeanne's power taking a hit.

Fate/Apocrypha only "introduced" one new Servant Class, but since it was hinted at in previous entries, it is no less important;
*'''Ruler''': Rulers are an unusual class of servant that are typically supposed to serve as unbiased mediators on the Grail's behalf. Servants of this class tend to be extraordinarily strong willed or have particularly divine providence, usually from God Himself. As avatars of the Grail's authority, Ruler servants are granted full autonomy and their own selection of Command Spells in order to compel any and all Servants summoned by the Grail when they deem it necessary. In F/GO, their authority over the standard servant classes is represented by a near universal defensive advantage against all non-Extra or Berserker classes. They are also vulnerable to Avengers and have full advantage over Moon Cancer servants. This is generally balanced out by the relative Ruler servants not being particularly offensive in nature, but that doesn't stop some of them from becoming Critical-Hit monsters. Aside from Jeanne and Amakusa above, notable Ruler class servants include Saint Martha and [[what|Sherlock Holmes]].

=== Fate/Strange Fake ===
Another spinoff, written by Narita of Durarara! fame, who's still doing his thing of having many narratives. This world diverges enough from "core" timeline of the Nasuverse really early on, and its concept is that it allows the Grail system from FATE and the Dead Apostles from Tsukihime to co-exist (they're usually mutually-exclusive). This is also the first of only two mainline FATE series (the other being Requiem) set after the Fifth Grail War. Interestingly enough, ''Strange Fake'' is based on a joke concept that Narita published on April Fool's 2008 before said concept was expanded upon in a more serious story the next year.

Much like ''Apocrypha'', much of the nonsense in the series can be traced from the Third Holy Grail War, [[Not As Planned|but where in Apocrypha Nazis manage to steal the Holy Grail wholesale]], here an agent from the United States government managed to become a participant (and became the master of Assassin), and copy just enough of the Heroic Spirit summoning ritual and send it back home before getting killed. With just enough of the ritual in hand, his successors work with the government to try and recreate the whole Holy Grail War in America, down to preparing a city with a massive leyline network to generate ambient mana ala Fuyuki for the war to be waged in (but not before forcibly displacing the Native American tribe living there, which will come back to bite them in a bit).

However ''because'' they only have fragments of the Fuyuki ritual, the American mages have had to fudge and fill in the missing details... with unexpected results. As it stands, the ritual can only summon six Servants, with the parts for Saber's summoning lost. Do take note though that the Grail has sort of a mind of its own, so the moment Mages started the incomplete ritual to start summoning Servants, it used this spike of mana to access the leyline network of the city, now named Snowfield. With this rich mana reservoir, the Grail forcibly casts the "real" Fuyuki summoning spell, and now a complete set of seven other Servants with their masters are now extant in the country.

It's an impending clusterfuck of epic proportions waiting to happen, not helped by the fact that, among the things fudged by the selfsame American mages was the definition of what a "hero" is that can be summoned -- which leads to stuff like having ''a sentient and possibly apocalyptic plague'' (summoned as a Rider, as it "rides" people), an amalgamation of myths (the sum of all the stories about Jack the Ripper, thankfully not as the controversially dressed loli from Apocrypha), and a bunch of disembodied spirits waiting for their Master ''to make up his goddamned mind'' about what their identity is, and are content right now to watch the chaos unfold. This is on top of having a Heracles who curses his humanity, a divine construct that gives even ''Gilgamesh'' cold sweat, Wonder Woman's mom, and King Arthur's number one fanboy.

Voted by fans of the franchise as ''the'' series they want to see an adaptation of most, which probably bodes ill for Tsukihime fans yet again. Though the likelihood of this happening before the light novel series is finished is pretty low; Narita has taken a pretty hard stance on not allowing the servants he's introduced into other media (such as Fate/Grand Order) until he has completed the light novels.

=== Fate/Prototype ===
As the name sort of implies, this was the "rough draft" of what eventually evolved into Fate/Stay Night. Though his more popular female incarnation is the face of the franchise as a whole, King Arthur is still very much a guy in the Prototype timeline, having been summoned in that timeline's second Holy Grail War by a young female mage (who was replaced by Shirou). Many of the characters are either earlier versions of the servants who appear in Fate/Stay Night or fill the same roles as the ones who were made to replace them, but there are some relatively prominent exceptions in both the plot and cast. No ''complete'' version of Prototype has been created, as Nasu doesn't feel particularly interested in revitalizing the original story himself.

Beyond personality differences, the only real changes to the servants involved are Gilgamesh becoming Prototype's Archer and Perseus replacing Medusa as Rider.

=== Fate/Prototype: Fragments of Sky Silver ===
A prequel series to Fate/Prototype (you know, despite Prototype itself being incomplete) written by Hikaru Sakurai, Fragments of Sky Silver is a collection of volumes, each focusing on various characters during the events of the First Holy Grail War (of Prototype's timeline). In a parallel to Fate/Zero and Fate/Stay Night, King Arthur is also present as the summoned Saber in the prequel as well. Fragments of Sky Silver is notable in that Nasu has virtually no involvement with the story, only offering minor story elements and input on the servants (who, unlike Prototype's relationship with Stay Night, vary much more aside from Arthur/Artoria and a Hassan being involved).

=== Fate/kaleid liner PRISMA☆ILLYA ===
A magical girl-type spinoff that cribs other Fate works for characters, villains, and storylines. You have to have a pretty high tolerance for [[Heresy|lolis getting hot and heavy with each other]] to be able to make any headway with this one. The biggest problem with Prillya (as the cool kids call it) is that the third part is incredible, but you have to suffer through the first two to get there, and even when you do get to the cool parts you still put up with the little girls being gay for each other because the magazine that runs the manga knows this is what sells the best. For those who know about this series in the first place, its shoehorned perversity makes it a source of considerable amounts of [[skub]].

The first of the two main characters is Illyasviel von Einzbern, who we originally knew as Berserker's master in Stay Night. In that story, she was an eerie demon of a child who made threats on the main character's life like it was nothing, backed up by an unstoppable force of a Servant. In this world, Illya is a normal middle school-aged girl who lives with her family: Emiya Kiritsugu, Irisviel von Einzbern, and her adoptive older brother Shirou. Kiritsugu and Irisviel are always off on vacation (a staple of any series with incestuous sexual tension), so Illya and Shirou are raised by the family maids.

Miyu Matsuki, the second main character, arrives on the scene as a mysterious prodigy who disrupts Illya's life by being simply too smart and collected and all the other things that would drive a teenage girl's emotions batshit up the belfry. The rivalry and uneasy cooperation between Illya and Miyu forms the backbone of the first part's plot, and so the series can leave the narrative on its own for a while to deliver exposition about magic and mirror universes and the power of hope in a young girl's heart. Never mind how much time Illya spends molesting Miyu and fantasizing about how much she wants the bone of Shirou's sword. The two of them have to learn to work together as magical girls in order to retrieve Class cards from corrupted Alter Servants within the Mirror World.

The second part, Prisma Illya 2wei (pronounced as Zwei, the German number it's butchering), had its anime adaptation split into two parts. This series introduces another new character, Chloe von Einzbern. Due to events that are neither shown on screen nor explained as having taken place, Chloe is created as a homunculus out of the "darkness" in Illya's heart and is much closer to Stay Night's Illya personality-wise. This means that Illya is no longer molesting Miyu, but it did come with conditions: Chloe requires a regular supply of mana from Illya to remain corporeal, so now there's an excuse for the little girls to kiss on a regular basis.

The third part, currently running as of 2020, is Prisma Illya 3rei (pronounced Drei, in a more strained form of the numbering started with 2wei). This is the part that pays off all the fanservice you sat through from the past two. It starts with Illya finding herself in what appears to be another world, and not a pleasant one. The city streets are all empty, with everything covered in undisturbed snow as if people left a long time ago (or put another way, imagine vanilla F/SN crashing into Angel Notes and the world being the resultant wreck). To make matters worse, she's separated Miyu and Chloe are nowhere to be found.

=== Fate/Grand Order ===
Much like ''Fate/Apocrypha'', Grand Order takes place in a timeline that diverged from the one showed in ''Stay Night''. where Marisbury Animusphere wins the 2004 Grail War, thanks to him summoning a ''Grand Caster''. Instead of pursuing the Root as other Mages would, Marisbury would instead wish for the influence, prestige, and most importantly, the '''money''' to found the means to secure Mankind's future. By 2018, this would become the '''Chaldea Security Organization''', a gathering of the best of scientific and magical minds, which would go on to create a much more practical Servant summoning system, as well as the Rayshift, a means of time-traveling that would allow Chaldea to investigate temporal anomalies that could possibly negatively influence the present.

Which is a good thing, as things soon go to Hell in a handbasket, and Chaldea has to scramble against an unknown attacker that seems hell-bent on making sure Humanity's history ''literally'' gets burnt to a cinder, all related to an obtuse prophecy that the world would end by 2016.

The series is infamous for the sheer amount of [[Skub]] it engenders, primarily due to its Gacha nature (in itself already infuriating, as randomness mixed with real money is never a good mix), as well as the fact that, since Nasu himself is writing the scenarios, everything else in the Nasuverse -- especially the promised Tsukihime remake -- have been on the backburners for an extensive period of time. With the recent Tsukihime remake finally being officially revealed/announced, it seems he's finally freed up enough to get some progress done.

On the flipside, it ''also'' fleshes out many aspects of the Nasuverse cosmology that would otherwise not been given focus outside of obscure background material. These can be pretty low-key revelations, to outright gonzo additions to the lore (the Greek Pantheon? Terraforming spaceships from another reality trying to recreate their makers' culture; the Aztec Gods? Space alien bacteria symbiotes leaping from host to host the Mezo-Americans started to worship).

The game has also shown just what could be done with the Servant summoning system, pushing things to the absolute limit on just what kind of "Hero" can be summoned (up to and including theoretical existences like ''fictional characters'' such as the Count of Monte Cristo), as well as introducing all sorts of summoning-related shenanigans like "twin summoning" (summon a Hero? You also get a chance at summoning their arch-nemesis for free!), "chain summoning" (summon Altera the Hun? If you have the mana to spare, you can THEN use her sword to summon Mars as a gigantic Mecha as well!), and the infamous self-summon (a dying Gilgamesh [[What|''summons his Archer self'']] using his body as a catalyst).

The story thus far is divided into two (and a half) parts. Part one, the part most people are likely aware of, revolves around Chaldea sending Ritsuka Fujimaru (genderbent Rin/Shirou player stand in) back in time to resolve temporal distortions called Singularities; disruptions in history caused by the interference of a rogue Holy Grail. Part two, or 1.5 as F/GO refers to them as, are a series of Psuedo-Singularities which, while threatening to the stability of the planet, aren't so much as to result in humanity's immediate incineration (they can also be skipped if players simply wish to move onto the ''actual'' part 2).

The currently ongoing story revolves around Chaldea hopping in between Lostbelts; singularity-like branches of human history that are considered dead-end "what ifs" that were ultimately pruned from the primary proper human history. Proper human history had been wiped clean by the "alien god", the earth itself bleached of all life outside of the Lostbelts sprinkled across the planet's surface. Should one of these Lostbelts grow powerful and large enough, it will ultimately supplant true human history. Obviously Chaldea doesn't find this arrangement ideal and is attempting to eliminate these lostbelts so that proper human history can be restored. On an aside, this is slightly interesting as each lostbelt has its own human populace with their own distinct (if stagnant) cultures and by collapsing the Lostbelt, everything and everyone from it dies. So yes, the player is functionally committing genocide in order to save their own history, so that's a neat little conflict for the otherwise goody-two-shoes protagonists trying to save everybody despite that unavoidable fact.

Though the earlier works had rather basic storylines and characters, as F/GO began gathering traction, the writing has generally improved for much of the story and a notable jump in character design and animation quality has been implemented as time has gone on. It's good they're reinvesting their ludicrous profits, at least.

It's a very Love It or Hate It type of game, made worse by the fact that it's ''the most lucrative entry of the franchise'', raking in ''billions'' per year. Yikes. Has produced two TV anime so far, as well as a movie. It also introduced the latest three servant classes to the franchise thus far;

*'''Shielder''': For Heroic Spirits known for their well... [[Shield]]s. Is the servant class of one <s>[[Skub|Mashu Martha Matthew]] [[Lulz|Mashpotatoes Eggplant]]</s> Mash Kyrielight, a human merged with the spirit of one such Servant, gaining access to their powers and becoming a demi-servant in the process. She serves as your number two throughout the game. As far as her gameplay mechanics go, she is the only servant who takes/deals neutral damage to all other servant classes across the board. Befitting her class title, she's also only particularly adept at defense, using her skills to reduce, negate or redirect incoming damage.
*'''Foreigner''': Move over Gilles, this is for servants with ''actual'' (in-universe) contacts to the [[Cthulhu Mythos]], [[Possessed|granting access to the powers of]] [[Daemonhost|whatever entity they contacted]], or they're literally out of this world (as with the case of the Voyager probe). Contrary to what you'd expect, servants in this category are quite ''sane'', either by consuming the madness that would normally follow or overcoming it entirely, giving them a proper advantage against the normally-insane Berserkers. A rather interesting handful of characters have fallen into this category, including Abigail Williams and a rather... loose interpretation of Van Gogh.
*'''Pretender''': The newest, and rarest, servant class. Pretenders class servants are individuals who achieved fame and glory for the heroics they performed while posing as a completely different individual. Not to be confused with masked, disguised or anonymous individuals, these are people who quite literally assumed a completely different identity to perform their deeds under. There are extraordinarily few members of this class, nominally Oberon-Vortigern (Vortigern of Arthurian fame assuming Oberon of A Midsummer Night's Dream's identity in a faerie-infested Britain) and Hephaestion-Mnemosyne (twin sister of the ''real'' Hephaestion, corrupted with a program Chaldea whipped up). Fate/Prototype's Merlin also artificially changed her Spirit Origin into that of a Pretender and went by the alias of Lady Avalon.

:'''Grand-Class Servants''': You might've noticed near the top of this entry that Marisbury Animusphere summoned a ''Grand'' Caster and might ask yourself "what the fuck is that?" As it turns out, the Holy Grail Wars use a dollar-store knockoff of a summoning ritual used by Alaya in order to summon Grand servants; Servants who represent the best of the best that Humanity has to offer summoned forth to fight against threats to the entire human race (Beasts). There are only ever seven Grand Class Servants at any given time, one for each of the standard servant classes. Due to them functioning as the ultimate pinnacle of their class, their stats are jacked up so high that normal Servants are considered "cheap imitations" and are basically what normal humans would be to a regular Servant. Under normal circumstances, it's impossible to summon Grand Servants; the sheer mana required alone is far and above what even the most skilled mages can ever bring to bear. In most cases, if one ''does'' manage to summon a Grand Servant outside the normal requirements, they're usually ''massively'' nerfed or otherwise handicapped to compensate. Said revalation also explains why Casters and Assassins get the short end of the stick in a Grail War; it's effectively a PvE system that has been poorly butchered to fit PvP, and Casters and Assassins are supposed to be running support or hitting priority targets while the other frontline classes wreck face.

:Grand Servants are fully intended to be impartial defenders of mankind and while they fill that role, they stand truly beyond compare. However, should a Grand Servant decide to aid a particular individual or organization, they must forfeit their rank as a Grand Servant. Upon doing so, they can temporarily bring their full, Grand-Ranked might to bear against a foe, though they will thereafter degrade into a "normal" servant. If they do this, they also seem to permanently forfeit their right to the title and the position will be left open for a new candidate.
::'''Grand Saber''': Unknown
::'''Grand Archer''': Open, formerly held by Orion of Greek mythology. Gave up his rank to help Chaldea shoot down a massive mech version of Artemis from orbit.
::'''Grand Lancer''': Open, formerly held by Romulus-Quirinus. Gave up his rank to help Chaldea defeat a mech version of Zeus and to stop a planet-sized version of Chaos (from Greek Mythology) from transporting to the LostBelt they were in.
::'''Grand Caster''': Held by Merlin. Formerly held by Solomon, who effectively deleted himself from existence to stop Goetia from incinerating humanity. Notable other candidates include Gilgamesh and Merlin (the female Fate/Prototype version).
::'''Grand Rider''': Held by Noah, of biblical fame.
::'''Grand Assassin''': Open, formerly held by Hassan-i Sabbah (the first one). Gave up his rank to instill the concept of death into the goddess Tiamat so that Chaldea could defeat her.
::'''Grand Berserker''': Unknown.

:'''Beasts''': These are extraordinarily powerful calamities that threaten total extinction upon the human race, if not just the complete destruction of the world. Beasts are the "Evils of Humanity" and as such are all formed from aspects of humanities vices (not too dissimilarly from [[Chaos Gods|a few other entities]] from [[Warhammer 40,000|a certain other universe]]). In fairly typical Nasuverse fashion, though there are only seven catagories of Beast, there can be numerous entities within the same category (For example, there are two Beast III's, III/L and III/R, and at least four Beast VI's, VI/L, VI/R, VI/S and VI/G). Most of the Beasts or Beast Candidates are unknown, but notable known examples include Goetia (responsible for the entirety of Part I of F/GO), Cath Palug (Also known as Fou, F/GO's squirrel-dog mascot) and the Alien God.

=== Fate/Requiem ===
A light novel series like ''Apocrypha'', ''Requiem'' takes place the year 2025, where the fallout of the Fuyuki Grail War has resulted in everyone possessing a Grail inside of them. In turn, this makes sure that dying of disease and old age have become a thing of the past. Everyone in the world has a Servant... Everyone, that is, except poor Erice Utsumi. But that's okay, because she instead gains the ability to ''kill Servants'', which she uses to keep Servants from being naughty.

Features, among other things, five AI versions of Caren Ortensia, the Roman centurion who made the Spear of Destiny, the manifestation of the Voyager probe who looks like the Little Prince, and a version of legendary youkai Kijyo Kōyō [[Awesome|as a ''t-rex''.]]

=== Fate/type Redline ===
The Grail War, but in World War 2. ''type Redline'' is a web manga written and illustrated by Ryouji Hirano that started in December 2019. In a manner not unlike ''Strange Fake'' mentioned above, the basis for this manga is a joke story called ''Fate/KOHA-ACE''. That parody of the Grail War, also called the "Imperial Capital Strange Story", got unexpectedly popular with fans (the appearance of some of the ''KOHA-ACE'' Servants in ''Grand Order'' also helping a lot in that regard) and this surge of popularity experienced by their joke story led Type-Moon to re-imagine it, except in a much more serious tone. Thus, just like ''Strange Fake'', ''type Redline'' plays out like an actual, proper Grail War, with all the [[Grimdark|darkness]] and [[Awesome|cool stuff]] it entails. The story centers around Kanata Akagi, a modern day boy and all-around mediocre mage, which is not helped by his lack of knowledge in Magecraft (not that it phases him, mind you, as he mostly wants to live a normal life) who [[Isekai|got thrown back in time to 1945 Tokyo]] thanks to [[Chronomancy|magic hourglass fuckery.]] Unfortunately, a Holy Grail War has begun at the same time and Kanata ends up accidentally summoning a Servant, thus making him a Master and forcing him to fight in the War.

== Other Works ==

=== Mahoyo ===
[[File:Mahoyostill.jpg|300px|thumb|An example of a still from Mahoyo. Pretty, right? Now think about how long it would take to make an entire visual novel where all the art is stills of this quality.]]
"Witch on the Holy Night," abbreviated Mahoyo from the Japanese title '''Maho'''utsukai no '''Yo'''ru, is unofficially the first Nasuverse work (unreleased due to various reasons) and one of the last visual novels written by Nasu with art by Takeuchi. It follows Aozaki Aoko's life as a magician before Shiki met her in Tsukihime.

It's notable for eschewing traditional VN practice of depicting characters with slightly-animated portraits, preferring to show everything with individually drawn stills. This makes it very pretty, but virtually nothing can be reused, so it's a big expense in both time and money, leading to infamous delays in its production, enormous art costs, zero voiced dialogue (suicide for a VN released in 2012), and the decision to split it into three parts. The first of these three is all we had, as its financial failure most likely convinced TYPE-MOON to focus on the safe bet of licensing Fate for the foreseeable future, and probably why it took until 2022 for an official English translation (among other languages) [https://twitter.com/mahoyo_game/status/1513713767804198916 to be announced], finally seeing the light of day in December 2022. Whether the trilogy will continue as originally planned is anyone's guess.

=== Angel Notes ===
[[File:Nasuverse slashemperor.jpg|300px|thumb|Notes humanity is pretty out there.]]

Also known as Angel Notes, it is the second-oldest official Nasuverse work but is set in the far future. Earth/Gaia is suffering a spiritual death at the hands of human war and pollution. Humanity itself only survived by bioengineering to survive in the hostile environment. Enraged that the beings that killed her continue to live on her soon-to-be corpse, Gaia released into what was left of the atmosphere a lethal discharge of Mana, killing large swathes of humanity and mutating the flora and fauna into aberrations that would make a [[Death World]] proud. The surviving humans responded by bioengineering themselves AGAIN into monsters beyond Gaia's monsters. In response, Gaia's dying breath was a call to the Ultimate Ones to finish the job. The main story follows the last days of the last unmodified human (and thus the only one capable of wielding a God-Killing Gun), where he finds himself sharing an apartment with an incarnation of Type Venus that he 'killed' five years ago.

Many other Nasu works, particularly Prisma Illya, reference Notes as a possible bad end for their future. The infamous God-killing gun, the Black Barrel itself, was alluded multiple times in other works, but only returns to mainstream consciousness ''almost twenty years later'' in Fate/Grand Order, as an upgrade to Mash Kyrielight's Ortinax shield.

The idea of the Ultimate Ones, particularly Type-ORT, being considered as impossibly-powerful and looming threats across the franchise, also originate in Notes, but much like the Black Barrel mentioned above, the true scale of just how unbelievably BROKEN they were came into play in Fate/Grand Order, where players were finally able to come face-to-face against ORT (or a ''version'' of ORT anyway)... And let's just say that the reputation is merited. Do note, however, that ORT itself isn't mentioned in Notes, presumably because he was ''so weak in comparison to the others that his defeat wasn't even noteworthy''.

=== Lord El-Melloi II Case Files ===
A novel series featuring Waver Velvet from Fate/Zero after he became an old and badass Magus university professor. Despite him literally being a Fate character, and many other Fate characters having a cameo or ten, this is distinctly not a Fate title, being concerned with the nature of Magecraft rather than Servants and Masters and Holy Grail Wars. Additionally, it doesn't shy from using Tsukihime material, like Dead Apostles (though Dead Apostles are not ''strictly'' Tsukihime-only, they're just much more influential in that continuity while Servants can't be summoned).
The story is a series of 'cases' where Waver has to untangle a situation in the wizarding society of London's Clock Tower. Throughout them develops his relationship with his students, in particular his personal aide Gray, whose defining character trait is that she is NOT Saber in spite of having the exact same face. This has deep plot implications.
The novel series is widely considered to be one of the better written TM works not penned by Nasu himself. A 12-episode anime has been made. You can watch it to get a taste.

=== Carnival Phantasm ===
Carnival Phantasm is the obligatory comedy cross-over that all long-running Japanese series have to do at least once. It is very silly and is regarded with more or less universal praise.

That is to say, this is a 12 episodes anime worth of jokes. For the initial episodes it takes from the Take-Moon manga, but later episodes have the show's official content, with somewhat different tone and humour. Whether you like the simple gags at the start or the complicated ones later, you'll probably enjoy Carnival Phantasm more the more of the other stuff you've read.

Sort of received a sequel series named Fate/Grand Carnival which, as you can guess, focuses mainly on Fate/Grand Order what with both Tsukihime and Kara no Kyoukai fading from public consciousness.

== Nasuverse and /tg/ ==
[[File:Seibasheet_1.jpg|300px|thumb|Lies.]]This article is largely here, because the entire setting has something of a tabletop game logic to it. Characters have their strengths expressed with stats, which almost sound like they make sense to somebody somewhere. Magi have Magic Circuits and lineage. Servants in Fate have an entire statted out character sheet, parts of which unlock as you read the novel. Indeed a week does not pass on /tg/ without some genius starting a thread about his 21 player transdimensional Holy Grail War played by post on Furaffinity.<br>

The problem with such prospects is primarily the author's writing style, which is, for lack of a better term, very self-subversive. Nasu likes to create expectations within the reader and then go against them by introducing exceptions to the rules in the middle of action to have the underdog win. The character sheets are a part of this, meant to hype up a character by making them do something that the 'rules' previously said was impossible. While there is really nothing wrong with this, and it actually works pretty well and isn't done constantly, it happens often enough to make the whole system part of it laughable. It is also the root of many [[Skub|powerlevel discussions]], as the exact dimensions of what a weapon or ability are capable of doing are put into question.

''But how DO I run a game in the Nasuverse?''<br>
- [[Exalted]], if you're just doing servants.<br>
- [[Mutants & Masterminds]] (the brokenness is a part of the charm).<br>
- Something very universal, like [[GURPS]], if you insist on balance, a ridiculous notion in the setting.<br>
- Heavily modified [[WoD]], especially for Tsuki-Side. Kara no Kyoukai is really just a game of Mage.<br>
- The [[FATE System]]'s heavily narrative slant actually works pretty damn well, and the [[Dresden Files RPG]] has a similar urban fantasy flavor. <br>
- Or, you know, homebrew something. There have been a few attempts at making a system, but scarcely presentable enough to share officially.
<br>

Keep in mind that a Holy Grail War means two characters for every Servant and their Master, meaning that a game that's merely of FSN scope would consist of 14 characters that all have to be statted out. Even if every player controls two characters, a 7-player battle royale is something most GMs will find near impossible to run. You may want to consider the players instead being an alliance of two masters and their servants, and NPCing the rest. Which is what most of the well-received installments of the series do anyway.

===So, Statistics===

Much like on a D&D character sheet, each Servant will have a recognizable stat array, with a rank going from E to Ex. '''Do not let this fool you''', as they only relate how a Servant measures up in that stat ''against other Servants'', and not when matched up against mere mortals. Its pointed out through all settings that a Servant can have a Strength score of D, and yet still be ''ten times more powerful'' than a master-level martial artist.

Having a score of E however means that, barring the supernatural shenanigans that a Servant can do (like going invisible via their Spirit Form), they're no stronger than a regular human. Alexandre Dumas the Elder (summoned as a Caster in Strange/Fake) has gone to say that his own ''master'' could flatten him in a straight brawl.

There is an obvious pattern as far as Stats go, in that the further back in history a hero originates, the higher their stats will be, with heroes originating from the time of Myth and the Gods pretty much being broken compared to more "modern" heroes. Hence while heroes like Gilgamesh or Heracles will always be much more impressive, both in stats AND abilities, compared to, say, William Tell and Spartacus.

Another obvious pattern is that stats are kinda bullshit. Fate/stay night's Saber has excellent stats and yet is defeated by an ordinary human whose fists were magically strengthened (like D&D ghosts, Servants tend to disregard nonmagical attacks) with a fancy fighting style. Heracles's passive Noble Phantasm nullifies all attacks that are "below A-rank", but you can just compensate for B-rank strength with superior skill or a fancy weapon. In general, stats are more akin to fluff that takes a backseat to the story the writer wants to tell, especially considering the nigh-omnipresence of Noble Phantasms that are true trump cards with wacky effects capable of bypassing whatever advantages the other side might have on paper.

===A Special Note about Alignment in Nasuverse entries===
Being influenced by tabletop gaming as it is, Alignments also exist in the Nasuverse, though literally in this case for FATE as often this appears in the summoned Servants' actual stats. Objectively, it's similar to the [[Alignment]] array one would find in D&D, and at first glance represents the Servant's personality and motivations. Hence we have canonically-statted Lawful Good and Chaotic Evil Servants.

In practice however, as shown by Archer Gilgamesh, who was listed as Neutral Good despite being such a prideful and selfish asshole (to be put mildly), it has rightfully caused all amount of [[Skub]] especially among Western [[Neckbeard]]s. This is because, while Alignments seem to have been ported whole-sale from D&D, they're not ''treated'' the same way. Some Alignments may persist even if a Servant gets extra characterization that runs against it.

It would be best to consider a Servant's alignment entry as a combination of two traits rather than the single entry that D&D players are used to. So if someone is [[Lawful Good]], they're actually Lawful PLUS Good, and even then these are tendencies rather than rigid guidelines.

This is the reason, for example, why we have a very personable and downright goofy Edward Teach/Blackbeard -- he has little respect for traditional societal structures (Chaotic), and in many circumstances can be downright violent and ruthless in his methods in getting things done (Evil), he wouldn't go out of his way to cause a ruckus as expected of a "traditional" [[Chaotic Evil]] badguy for shits and giggles as per the Western alignment definition, and in actuality is a chill and cordial goof who would rather spend his free time either gawking at under-aged girls or building gunpla.

Mind you, there are still. characters that play this absolutely straight (like Artoria/Altria and her Knights of the Round Table), however as one Singularity in FGO demonstrates this doesn't necessarily mean that they're NICE about it.

Some argue that the easiest way of squaring this circle is to take the alignments as less an objective description, and more "how the Servant describes ''themselves''". Further, it doesn't take into account assholery. So, Gilgamesh is "Good" because he defines himself as good, while Blackbeard is "Evil" because he's a criminal through and through, but he's a fairly low-key person as long as money or things he needs aren't involved. Whether this is an accurate method of handling Nasu's alignments is a [[Skub|matter of debate]], obviously.

Of course, the franchise also makes fun of the concept, especially during in-game seasonal events (hence the appearance of joke alignments like [[Chaotic Neutral|Chaotic Summer]] or [[True Neutral|Neutral Balanced]])

== So, This is Basically World of Darkness, Right? ==
Maybe. Nasu has confessed to being inspired by tabletops, but never directly by WoD. However, consider the following line of thought:<br>
- The number six has deep eschatological implications in the nasuverse. There's the Dark Six in Tsukihime 2, the totally entirely unrelated Six Sisters in Notes, the Beast VI being literal biblical Beast of Revelation in Fate/Prototype, The Sixth (which is most likely just the time of Crimson Moon's return) in Tsukihime, and finally the Six True Magics. But wait, you say, we have never heard of a Sixth True Magic, right?<br>
- Mahoyo says that theoretically this is possible, if one more person would just reach the Root and manage to come back, it's just never happened. Furthermore, it says that magi in general like them up to the Third, the Fourth is weird, and the appearance of the Fifth is ''bad''. <br>
- In Notes, The Six Sisters are each a wielder of True Magic. Since there can only be a single owner of a True Magic at a time, it follows that in the world of Notes, there are six. Furthermore, the sisters are distinct from each other - the youngest has died fighting the Types. <br>
- The youngest sister's name is stated to be ''Judgement''.<br>
- In Mage: the Ascension, ''Judgement'' is the name of the theoretical Tenth Sphere, which...<br>
- [[Mage:_The_Ascension#Ascension_or_Armageddon|Sound familiar?]]<br>

==Gallery==
<gallery>

Image:Staynightservants.jpg|The cast of Heroic Spirits from Fate/Stay Night. From left to right: Archer, Berserker, Saber, True Assassin, Assassin, Rider, Lancer, and the Archer from the previous Grail War.

Image:Zeroservants.jpg|Zero's Heroic Spirits. From top to bottom, left to right: Assassin, Archer, Lancer, Caster, Rider, Saber, and Berserker.

Image:Remake-arc.jpg|The new design for Arcueid from a Tsukihime Remake promo. The least popular of the designs due to the changes to her hair and skirt.

Image:Remake-ciel-akiha.jpg|New designs for Ciel and Akiha. Opinions are mixed about these.

Image:Remake-maids.jpg|New designs for the maids, Hisui and Kohaku. They got changed the least.

</gallery>

== Further Reading ==

One article can't remotely begin to cover everything Nasuverse related. Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on your opinion), there's a whole nother wiki [[https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/TYPE-MOON_Wiki]] for you to wade through if you care to (including the stuff we had to excise). Spoilers abound, so be cautious.

[[Category:Nasuverse]]
[[Category:Awesome]]
[[Category:Weeaboo]]

Horus

2023-01-04T12:30:03Z

2A02:8071:4488:C8C0:0:0:0:6A8A: /* Horus VS other Primarchs, Horus Heresy 2.0 */

{{heresy}}
[[File:Horus Portrait.png|400px|thumb|right|<s>Yul Brynner</s> <s>Lex Luthor</s> <s>Jean-Luc Picard</s> <s>Professor X pre-paralysis</s> <s>Vin Diesel</s> <s>Agent 47</s> Horus Lupercal, the Warmaster. Here shown prior to getting his Chaos on.]]
{{Topquote|'''Let the galaxy burn.'''|Horus Lupercal, ruining everything for everyone for ever}}
{{Topquote|Better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven.|Satan in John Milton's ''Paradise Lost''.}}
{{Topquote|[[Primarch|Angels]] are bright still, though the brightest [[Chaos|fell]].|William Shakespeare}}
'''Horus *wah Daddy, I didn’t get enough hugs* Lupercal, The Breaker of Tyrants, The Warmaster, The Arch-Traitor, That Bald Cunt, Horace Heresy''' or '''[[If_the_Emperor_had_a_Text-to-Speech_Device|FUCKING HORUS!]]''' was the [[Primarch]] of the [[Black Legion|Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus/Black Legion]], and the main figure in the event known as the [[Horus Heresy|Horus]] [[Heresy]] (this is NOT a dead giveaway. Oh no), who is generally known as "'''THE GUY WHO FUCK'D IT ALL UP'''", [[Erebus |but not really really.]]

==Overview==
[[File:Past-Horus-Primarchs-.jpeg|300px|right|thumb|Young Horus in all his bald glory (looking weirdly like Benito Mussolini crossed with a WWE wrestler).]]
Once the most favoured son of his father the [[God-Emperor of Mankind]], he began to resent his father's treatment of him and other Primarchs, and believing that the Emperor's secret plan was to become a god using his own Primarch sons as a tool (when in fact all this is [[Just as planned|due to the lies]] of a [[Lorgar|certain religious zealot]]), eventually turned to [[Chaos]]. If you really need to be told any of this, what in the actual fuck are you doing on /tg/ in the first place? This is such common knowledge, that the outlines of the Horus Heresy and every bad ass taking part in it, are more or less [[Dwarf Fortress|engraved]] in the mind of every /tg/ reader. Much like the Emperor being crippled and the Imperium devolving into a bureaucratic [[grimdark]] empire, the death of Horus and the placement of [[Abaddon]] as the most influential Chaos champion ever, turned the Traitor legions from a genocidal force bent on utter domination for the glory of Chaos into a Saturday-morning cartoon villain organization. Also his armour made him look like an egg.

It is argued that Horus was not actually evil but possessed by the Chaos Gods or that he was a victim of [[Lorgar]], who is officially labeled as "The First Heretic." However, he was still [[Eldrad|a massive dick]]. Hence the common saying in the post-Heresy Imperium: ''"Of all the mighty Primarchs, Horus sure was a dick."''

But long story short, the Imperium got into this fucked up state because this guy had daddy issues (honestly, who didn't?), he got scammed by [[Erebus|religious nutjobs]], and [[Grimdark|because the Chaos Gods showed him horrific visions of the future, supposedly under the Emperor's rule]], all while conveniently leaving out the fact that it would be his own efforts to avert said future that would cause it in the first place. Lol-irony. They did show him that the Emperor was planning to discard him and the other rest of the Space Marines when their usefulness ended, which totally contradicts previous Horus Heresy novels where the chambers the primarchs were supposed to live in once the Crusade ended were depicted. Why would you build large apartments for your "sons" if you really did not give a rat's ass about them? Or was the EMPRA intending on luring them into their respective apartment and then strangle them to death? Why go through all the effort when his psychic might was enough to force Lorgar to kneel (causing a small brain hemorrhage as evidenced by blood tricking out of his nose. See "The First Heretic)? He could have just BLAMMED them all Thunder Warrior style with all his psychic prowess and shit. Either way, you know what they say- the best lies contain a grain of truth. The Chaos Gods did show Horus the future he would create which seemed to prove that the EMPRA had planned his own ascension all along (so he obviously must enjoy to be chilling on the couch as a decomposing corpse these days).

It also doesn't help that there's prior precedence provided by Malcador committing damnatio memoriae on the [[Primarch#Two_Missing_Primarchs_.7C_The_Forgotten_.26_The_Purged|11th and 2nd Primarchs]], a conspiracy which was first uncovered during its development by [[Alpharius#But_Wait.21|"Alpharius"]] and brought to the attention of the Warmaster himself, leading to a confrontation between [[Alpharius#But_Wait.21|"Alpharius"]], Horus, [[Jaghatai Khan]] & [[Malcador the Sigillite]] on [[Terra]]. After calling each other [[that guy|ambitious freeloaders]], Horus threatened Malcador's life, to which the Sigillite said if they didn't like the erasure of the recently lost legion, they could shove that <strike>precious</strike> vainglorious memory of theirs where the sun don't shine. When Horus tried to speak his dead brother's name as an act of defiance, Malcador froze his brain & had to be talked down from sploding his grey matter all over the room by Jaghatai & [[Alpharius#But_Wait.21|"Alpharius"]]. When he got back up, [[RAGE|Horus flipped a table and gave Malcador the bird when he had his back turned]], effectively planting the seed of resentment & pouring boiling piss over it.

It is during this confrontation that it's revealed that Horus had always disagreed with the idea of standard humans ruling over themselves & believed that since it was he, the other Primarchs and their Astartes who conquered the stars, that it should be themselves who rule over the compliant planets; rather than this opinion being implanted by the ruinous powers, it was merely exacerbated. His low opinion on mortals probably isn't helped by the fact that the conspiracy to condemn the memory of his [[Primarch#Two_Missing_Primarchs_.7C_The_Forgotten_.26_The_Purged|lost brothers]] was concocted by baseline noble humans (there was even a noble present from House Carpinus by the name of [[Dune|Na-Baron]] Petronius Vivar at the confrontation with Malcador). Evidently, the other traitor Primarchs thought much the same when he revealed to them that it was the Emperor's plan to give the right to govern these planets to standard humans of noble houses, only to then discard the Primarchs and the remaining 18 legions ([[Primarch#Two_Missing_Primarchs_.7C_The_Forgotten_.26_The_Purged|2nd and 11th style]]) once their stated purpose had been fulfilled. How this plan exactly meshes with putting Magnus on the Golden Throne to manage the Webway for Him is unknown, but we suspect it involves strapping an explosive collar around his neck that would detonate should he decide to peel his red ass off the chair. No bathroom breaks.

Either way though, the Emperor psychically nuking of Horus' body and soul means Horus is gone as fuck now, occasional Fabius Bile cloning shenanigans notwithstanding, and Horus' influence of modern 40K will remain posthumous.

Also, 40K(30K?) Horus has more of an reverse connection to his Egyptian god namesake, given the Egyptian Horus heroically took to the throne of the gods from a usurper while 40K Horus is instead the failed usurper.

==New fluff==
[[File:Horus vs The Emperor.jpg|600px|thumb|right|If this reminds you of every Baroque and/or Christianity-related painting from the Renaissance up until the 19th Century, good. Also note how the Custodes are Dark Silver and wearing Pickelhauben (That's because these are Sagittarum Guard).]]
Recent fluff from the book ''Vengeful Spirit'' has Horus visiting the same gate to the Warp on Molech that the [[Emperor]] used to get some of his powers. While only seconds pass in the Materium, Horus spends what is basically implied to be an eternity inside the Warp battling rival Daemon Princes, amassing billions of warp-creature minions, and wrecking shit. In the end he somehow gains the same powers that the Emperor received to create the Primarchs, but Horus gets them in a "legit" way (as far as the Ruinous Powers are concerned) by passing their near constant tests through sheer force of will, where the Emperor just took what he wanted. Refusing to become a slave to the Ruinous Powers (or perhaps that's what the Chaos Gods wanted him to think) he leaves his Warp-empire to return to his rebellion in the Materium. Horus' time inside the Warp was so long that he, a fully grown Primarch, had visibly aged. However with his new psychic hack abilities he disguises his over-the-hill face and still maintains his youthful appearance. Apparently the Emperor does the same trick. This was basically a big retcon by Black Library who previously explained Horus being able to fight toe-to-toe with the Big E as having all four Chaos Gods channel their powers into him at once.

It's important to explore this clusterfuck of nonsense to make sense of the lore before one comes to the rubbish conclusion that the Emperor only became god-like after Molech. This is balls-deep nonsense. This is what Horus (who is himself not in any way whatsoever a good source for reliable information regarding Chaos) thinks he knows from his own narrow/skewed/manipulated point of view. The more commonly held belief is that, as with the vision he received from the [[Erebus|Great Fuckhead Himself]], he was misled. That the Emperor, a being capable of trapping and fighting a C'Tan (that as it turned out had been tired out prior by another warp entity... oops) during the Middle Ages, was always as powerful as He has been portrayed. It is explained that the Primarchs are more than just flesh and bone, and that each of them has a fraction of His personality in them that they themselves embody. [[Ferrus Manus]]' rather dramatic death highlights that inside Primarchs lies a great deal of energy. Now to the heart of it - Molech. Why would a being as powerful as the Emperor, who has to combat 4 monstrously powerful otherworldly entities whilst maintaining a beacon anywhere he goes, soul bound psykers and fight throughout the Great Crusade, split His formidable power 20 times into 20 beings? He wouldn't, he'd grab extra power to do so. That was Molech - a source and gateway to a wellspring of power claimed by Chaos for its use alone. A source the Emperor broke into and stole/took/tricked for His Primarch Project. Using the additional power, He crafted, with His scientific mastery, 20 genetically engineered super hosts. In the same way that god-aligned daemons are formed by splitting a portion off the God itself, He used each portion of power as a blank mold, investing them with a sliver of His personality and allowing the power to coalesce around it to form a soul/Emperor-Greater Daemon. That pseudo-daemon is then implanted in a host that can never die or degrade due to age, perfectly tailored to hold it. This explains why each Primarch radiates an aura of awe and magnificence. Horus didn't become as powerful as the Emperor, he retrieved the power that made himself and all his brothers and had it infused into himself. While it appears he has lost a significant chunk of this power (and a piece of his soul) after his duel with Leman Russ in the [[Battle of Trisolian]], the Ruinous Powers soon after began to mainline him with warp energy to the point where he began to bulge at the seams, so by the onset of the [[Siege of Terra]] he resembled something in between walking cancerous tumor growth amalgamation and juicing steroid junkie. Whether or not he will manage to be a match for the Emperor as yet remains to be seen. That said, we know who won the duel.

Following the duel with Russ, Horus suddenly entered a near coma, throwing the legion into disarray. Maloghurst later entered the Realm of Chaos and found that a part of Horus's soul - an uncorrupted part - was still trapped in the Warp. That part of his soul was suffering from the effects of Russ's spear, leading to the material Horus falling unconcious. The fragment expressed remorse over it's actions, as well as a morbid clarity that his rebellion was just part of the Gods plan and he had been manipulated into doing so. Left with no other option, Maloghurst destroyed the fragment at the cost of his own life, releasing Horus from his coma and giving him total control over the powers granted by the Chaos Gods, as well as leaving him utterly without doubt in his actions (however delusional they may actually have been).

In Path of Heaven he appears in all his pomp and Chaotic corruption to assign Mortarion to kill Jaghatai Khan, explain that all his other generals have gone doolally and wax lyrical about killing the Emperor, as well as make the point that being 'roided up by the raw stuff of the Empyrean doesn't get you out of having to manage the logistics of a galactic civil war. Soon after, Mortarion kills his Navigators in a fit of rage and makes the dumbass decision to go into the warp anyway. In other words, Horus was the only one of his brothers who had his shit together, which was why the Horus Heresy fell apart so quickly after his death.

Newest fluff heavily suggests that Chaos Gods' plan from the very beginning was for Horus to lose, but only barely. Apparently the Gods knew about the [[Cabal]]'s plans and made sure they would get the outcome of a fucked up Imperium that lasts for millennia, feeding them with all the negative emotions they needed, rather than an Imperium of Chaos which would go to shit in a few centuries of infighting, taking humanity and gods themselves with it. It does make sense that at least Khorne and Nurgle would appreciate a bloody and decaying Imperium. One daemon even referred to Horus as "sacrificial lamb" needed to stop the Imperium from turning into a prosperous empire of reason, and kickstart the [[Long War]]. (Though Eldrad disagrees and John Grammaticus has seen Horus actually won the Heresy and Chaos was not only fine but enjoying the aftermath) The Emperor may have developed a counter-plan that caused the Chaos Gods to scream in frustration in ''The Outcast Dead'' but that book is fairly trippy. Later still, Lorgar hinted that the Chaos Gods were displeased with the Warmaster's unwillingness to become a slave to Chaos and that his ultimate defeat in the duel with the Emperor would be a punishment for his refusal to surrender his will to them. By the time of the Siege of Terra, his body and mind were outright falling apart as the Chaos Gods' power was becoming too much to handle, forcing Abaddon to do much of the actual work in leading the Traitor Legions while Horus was either comatose or too insane to form a coherent battle strategy.

Long after the Scouring, Fabius Bile succeeded in creating a stable clone of a pre-Molech Horus, who utterly wrecked a huge boarding party of traitor marines before being fucking impaled through the chest with his own talon by Abbadon. The clone was capable of speech and seemed to possess a semblance of memory from its twin brother's past (calling Abbadon its "son", just before being turned into a kebab). It's unknown why it was so hostile to other Astartes or what degree of control Fabius had over it. Several prominent marines were adamant that such an abomination (cloned Astartes apparently being the closest thing to taboo you can get for even a traitor marine) would not be Horus in any way, because his soul was annihilated by the Emperor.

==Good Guy Horus==
It's often forgotten by fans that before he was corrupted and decieved by [[Erebus]] and [[Lorgar]], Horus was a genuinely nice guy. Fans are quick to joke about "that dick Horus," but before [[Heresy|Things Went Wrong]] he was one of the most personable, down to earth primarchs. Yeah, part of the reason people fell for him so easily was that he shared the Emperor's psychic magnetism, but he also went out of his way to be friendly and considerate of custom, if not necessarily polite. Granted, at times he had arrogance to match [[Magnus]] and choler to match [[Angron]], but despite that he always made effort to honor those under his command, mortal and astartes alike. [[Konrad Curze|While]] [[Angron|many]] [[Perturabo|primarchs]] saw their warriors as little more than tools, or [[Fulgrim|were]] [[Ferrus Manus|aloof]] and [[Corvus Corax|unapproachable]], Horus was a true father to his sons, guiding and shaping them personally. To most legions it would be unimaginable for the primarch to personally seek out and comfort a legionary during a time of crisis, but for the Luna Wolves, it was obvious. He was no saint or coddler, as we see him encourage rivalries within and between his legion and others, but in doing so he brought strength and glory. Even when dealing with outsiders, he always attempted diplomacy before making war, something even his gentler brothers cannot say. In fact, one of the primary reasons why Horus was named Warmaster over other candidates like Guilliman, the Lion, or even Sanguinius was that he was such a people person. He was friends with nearly all of his brothers and was superhumanly savvy when it came to knowing how to talk to people. In this same vein, he was also a master manipulator, and routinely used his savvy to get people, even people who didn't agree with him, to do what he wanted. He was in fact so good at this this he had the ability to change his personality and demeanor to suit particular situations, appearing a slightly different person to others based on what he thought would get him the best results. He got along famously with all of his brothers save one; even total psychos like Angron and Konrad Curze just couldn't help but love the guy. The only brother of his who didn't like him was Corax, which was due to the newly-initiated Warmaster somewhat clumsily trying to exert his authority over Corax and getting a bunch of Raven Guard killed unnecessarily. Horus was a cunning, brutal, supremely confident warlord with a huge cock ([[What|what]]) who nonetheless took great pains to make sure his warriors and mortal retainers were treated well, and furthermore, from the very few pre-Davin POV scenes we get, we know he ''actually believed'' others deserved to be treated well, it wasn't simply [[Fulgrim|feigned politeness]] or [[Roboute Guilliman|a calculated display of regard]]. In fact, his reaction to both finding the Interex and having to destroy them demonstrates that he was actually one of the most ardent good guys in the entire galaxy. Upon meeting the Interex, a group of humans who had incorporated a Xenos civilization into their own, Horus became absolutely hell-bent on trying to negotiate a Protectorate status for them. This was due not only to the fact that they successfully lived alongside xenos as part of their civilization, which Horus had essentially dismissed as impossible, but also how they had treated another hostile xenos species called the Mega Arachnids. A group of monstrous intelligent murder spiders, they had fought, and lost against, the Interex. But instead of exterminating them, the Interex exiled them to a random planet, took all the resources they could have used to build spacecraft, and quarantined them there. Horus was blown away by this non-violent solution, and wanted to learn as much as he could about the Interex. To make it clear how unusually open-minded this was, even ''Sanguinius'', most noble of men, seemed privately to be a bit iffy about Horus's desire to negotiate with xenos (though he supported Horus without reservation in public). Horus even told his closest advisor and First Captain, Abaddon, who hated the idea of negotiating with filthy xenos, to basically go sit and spin. Then fucking [[Erebus]] happened, and Horus had to destroy the Interex. Doing so however, affected him so dramatically that he was said to have "lost hope" after the conflict. So after being presented with the idea of the Federation from [[Star Trek]], Horus became completely enamored of the idea, and lost all his optimism after having the possibility of the Imperium becoming that way dashed. Even his edgy rebellion and fall to Chaos was due to his honest love of people. He's basically 40k's version of Arthas Menethil (only bald).

==Capabilities==
It has often been said that Horus was the single greatest of all the Primarchs, and in many respects he genuinely was. Some of his brothers may have had an edge in one particular specialty or another, but Horus was very often among the top 5 in any given category. A jack of all trades, master of most, if you will. As a tactician, only Corax or the Lion were in his league, with the Lion possibly being just slightly better. As a grand strategist, he was akin in skill to Dorn and Guilliman, with Guilliman likely taking the top spot by a small margin. As a logistician, only Perturabo or Guilliman were his match. As a diplomat, only Guilliman, Lorgar, and potentially Magnus were in his league. As a leader of men, only Sanguinius was possessed of similar charisma and nobility. All these traits and more combined to make Horus a virtually unmatched general, one who could fight, plan, improvise, inspire, and negotiate with the absolute best of them. In terms of compliances, he had the single greatest number of military victories under his belt out of all the Primarchs. Only Dorn, the Lion, and Guilliman were close, and only Guilliman had a greater number of total compliances (ones gained through diplomacy or some other non-military means).

There was a flipside to his brilliance, however. While he was arguably the greatest conqueror out of the primarchs, he was not the type of person to leave a planet better than it was before. He had a tendency to destroy and then have legions such as the Ultramarines and Iron Warriors clean up his messes. While he was a magnificent diplomat and always felt that the primarchs should rule humanity, he never actually showed any interest in statesmanship, let alone any ability to rule a world. As a matter of fact, there is no hint that he ever governed a single planet - even in his youth, he was found by the Emperor long before he had any chance of ruling over his home planet like most of his brothers (In fact, in an earlier book in the Horus Heresy series, it's treated as a mild punishment for an astartes from the Luna Wolves to be made a planetary governor.) The primarch who conquered the most planets never stuck around to make something of his gains. He wanted to always be known as his father's favourite and then when he was given the warmaster position he started buckling under the pressure. In other words, he was the classic example of "wanting is better than having".

==On the Tabletop==
===Horus Heresy 1.0===
[[File:Horus.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Horus Lupercal, in all his miniature [[Awesome|glory]].]]
{| class=wikitable
! || Pts || WS || BS || S || T || W || I || A || Ld || Sv
|-
| '''Horus:''' || 500 || 8 || 5 || 7 || 6 || 6 || 6 || 5+1 || 10 || 2+/3++
|}

Horus is everything you love about an HQ wrapped up in one man. He is a very good tactical HQ allowing reserves to outflank, giving every Son of Horus +1 to Leadership and seizing the initiative on a 4+. He and any Terminator unit he has joined may elect which turn they arrive in and they will not scatter if they choose to Deep Strike (and he bestows the rule to the entire unit). He also makes veteran-tactical squads and Justaerin Terminators troops choices (if he is the Warlord... but then again when are you not going to make him your Warlord?).

He is good at shooting with a BS of 5, night vision, a thing that gives - if he chooses to not fire during his turn - a single unit within 6" (other than super-heavy or Independent Characters) +1 BS, a twin-linked super-bolter, and an orbital bombardment using his BS (also twin-linked). And, finally, he is a monster in close combat, being able to take down full terminator squads in 1 turn if you roll well for his 6 attacks plus +D3 attacks if he is fighting a unit or character of weapon skill 4 or lower. He can rape blobs, MEQ's, TEQ's and HQ's.

His weapons are the Warmaster's Talon (an AP2 lightning claw which saddles whoever survives it with a -1 penalty to WS and S for every wound it inflicts that in theory can stack, ensuring that even if he doesn't kill what he's fighting, his target will be completely unable to harm him or anybody else in close combat), and a S10 AP1 master-crafted thunderhammer called Worldbreaker. Combine this with an initiative of 6, and he will strike first most of the time. He's also pretty durable with a toughness and wounds of 6, 2+ armor save, 3+ invulnerable save, 5+ deny the witch, and an additional 3+ save against any psychic attack or adverse profile modifications, which comes to play more often then you may think, given most other Primarchs are bristling with Concussive, Strikedown, Blind or some weirder stat-lowering shit. As in 30k destroyer weapons don't have a "deathblow" result, titan-killer weapons cannot one-shot him, but they still hurt a lot, and while Shadowsword cannot spam D-strength, Magnus definitely can, and the horrible abomination of cheese that is a Warlord-class battle titan could vomit out enough D to kill three Horuses in one turn, so don't get too cocky.

Horus is an absolute motherfucker, and can be thought of as everything a Chapter Master should be between his Orbital Bombardment and army buffs. Letting reserves Outflank makes crossing the board much easier. His Justaerinstar will make anything shit its pants. The Ld bonus patches his Legion's weak morale, and 4+ seize can make a huge difference. His Orbital Bombardment is also awesome. The multi-wound EWless models one finds in 30k will die, and you're likely to put vehicles out of commission. Unfortunately this comes at a really steep fucking price (500 points!) so use him wisely.

===Horus Heresy 2.0===

{| class=wikitable
! || Pts || WS || BS || S || T || W || I || A || Ld || Sv
|-
| '''Horus:''' || 600 || 8 || 6 || 7 || 7 || 7 || 6 || 6(+1) || 10 || 2+/3++
|-
| '''Horus Ascended:''' || 1000 || 8 || 6 || 8 || 8 || 8 || 6 || 6(+1) || 10 || 2+/3++
|}

Horus' already high points cost has risen noticeably, but he has gained some new tools.

*The '''Serpent's Scales''' provides the 2+/3++ typical of Primarchs. No additional flashy rules, but he doesn't need them that badly.
*'''Worldbreaker''': The heavy hitter for smacking down anything with a bunch of wounds or an AV value. ''Master-Crafted,'' S10, AP2, ''Sunder, Brutal (2), Unwieldy''.
*'''The Talon of Horus:''' The option for wrecking squads and characters alike. This weapon is S User AP2 and comes with ''Shred'' and ''Deflagrate''. Notably it has lost the ability to inflict -1 WS and -1 S on anyone suffering an unsaved Wound from it, and combined with the inability to negatively modify any Primarch's statlines, this has made Horus significantly weaker than before, but he still manages to murder everyone, so it's not all bad.
** The Talon also doubles as Horus' gun. 24" S5 AP3, Assault 3, and Twin-Linked. Again, simple but good enough. It counts as a Bolt weapon for rules purposes.
* He also comes with a '''Cognis Signum''' as before to buff his allies' shooting.

As before, Horus also has a number of powerful special rules:
*He shares the '''Legiones Astartes (Sons of Horus)''' rule. Which applies to Primarchs this edition. In his case, this means that on a turn where he charges or gets charged, the Strength of all melee attacks against him is reduced by 1.
*'''Sire of the Sons of Horus:''' is his unique warlord trait, which grants all infantry models in the same army as Horus +1 Ld and Stubborn. Note that unlike all of the other "Sire of the X" rules, this '''ignores faction restrictions'''. As a result, you can use him in a mixed faction army (so not just other Legions, but Mechanicum or Imperial Army as well) and they'll all benefit from having him around, as opposed to benefitting only his own Legion like everyone else.
*'''Master of War''': Once per battle, Horus can give his army an extra reaction in '''all phases''' of a turn. Make it count, because after that you're stuck with the standard one reaction per phase.
*'''Master of Weapons''': Horus can split his attacks between his weapons, and in the Assault phase he can only be hit in melee on a roll of better than a 4+ regardless of his opponent's WS.
*'''Deep Strike''': Yep, he still works well with Terminators.
*'''Traitor''': Well, what the fuck did you expect him to be?

Primarchs also have a set of shared rules:
*''Independent Character, Eternal Warrior, Fearless, It Will Not Die (5+), Bulky (4)'' and ''Relentless''.
*They are not affected by negative modifiers to their statlines (other than wounds).
*Resolve snap shots at their normal BS.
*All hits from either shooting or close combat are allocated by the Primarch's controlling player. These hits are kept in a separate wound pool.

[[file:HorusAscended.jpg|thumbnail|right|The things the dark powers do to a man...]]
Optionally, Horus can be upgraded to '''Horus Ascended''' for an extra 400 (!) points, representing his empowerment by Chaos near the end of the Horus Heresy. This grants him a flat boost to his Strength, Toughness and Wounds, the Corrupted unit subtype (which in practice means he gets ''Fear (1)'' since its other effects are either already covered or negated by the Primarch rules), ''Feel No Pain (4+)'', and ''Rage (3+)''. He also gets even more special rules:

*'''A Dark Fate''': The first time Horus Ascended dies, he's instead moved into Reserves with a single wound and can re-enter play like any other model. This still counts as a death however, your opponent will get victory points from it for things like Slay the Warlord, and if Horus is killed again (not implausible if they've already killed him once since he'll have only a single wound left and you can't rely on IWND to regenerate his health back up to safe levels) they get those victory points a second time. That said, it still means you benefit from the Sire of the Sons of Horus rule until or unless he bites it again.
*'''The Power of Chaos Eternal''': Once per battle in the Assault Phase, Horus Ascended can give himself S10 and T10 for that phase and ignores the Unwieldy rule on Worldbreaker. After that, he takes an automatic Perils of the Warp, whose wounds (if unsaved) must be allocated to friendly models should Horus Ascended be attached to a unit. And why wouldn't he be?
*'''Spreading Corruption''': All models in a unit with the Infantry, Cavalry, or Dreadnought unit types can be upgraded with the Corrupted subtype for 25 points per unit, with all the benefits and drawbacks the subtype entails. Don't forget that Corrupted units can only be joined by Corrupted models.

==Horus VS other Primarchs, Horus Heresy 1.0==
<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="100%">
Horus wins against any other Primarch except Leman Russ and super-charged Magnus. That's it. He beats ALMOST any other opponent he gets pitted against, although it'll take a while with Vulkan.
<div class="mw-collapsible-content">
No seriously, what did you expect? With WS 8, 6 Attacks with a S7 AP2 lightning claw that cripples whoever survives his onslaught or a MC S10 Thunder Hammer and 2+/3++ he can destroy almost any other Primarch relatively safely. He's clearly built to be the hardest dude around and his gear is borderline unfair. Disabling Strike is just disgusting and it's directly intended to make sure he stays the top dog no matter how [[Angron|angry]], [[Fulgrim|pretty]] or [[Perturabo|well]] [[Ferrus Manus|equipped]] anyone else is... [[Sanguinius|so long as he doesn't piss off the Angel]]. Ouch, that Talon really hurts. So, yeah, almost no one can actually fight 1 on 1 with the Warmaster, barring some incredibly lucky rolls.

<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">
'''These are the old numbers on Leman Russ pre-FAQ:'''
<div class="mw-collapsible-content">
*Horus vs. Leman Russ
**Horus, Round 1: Hits 2 times, wounds 1.777 times with his Claw, 0.888 wounds after saves, and IWND brings it down 0.555
**Horus Round 2 and on: Hits 1 time, wounds 0.888 times with his Claw, 0.444 after saves and IWND brings it down to 0.111
**Leman Russ, full Wounds + charge/Counter-Attack (Balenight): hits 4.667 times, wounds 3.502, 1.167 wounds after saves and IWND brings it down to 0.834 at the start of the next turn.
**Leman Russ, full Wounds + charge/Counter-Attack (Helwinter): hits 4.861 times, wounds 4.051 times, 1.350 wounds after saves and IWND brings it down to 1.017 at the start of the next turn.
**Leman Russ, full Wounds (Balenight): hits 4 times, wounds 3 times, 1 wound after saves and IWND brings it down to 0.667
**Leman Russ, full Wounds (Helwinter): hits 4.190 times, wounds 3.492, 1.164 wounds after saves and IWND brings it down to 0.831 at the start of the next turn.
**Sever Life: Being a pain in the ass to calculate, Sever Life will go off most of the time against Horus, but for the purposes of this mathhammer Sever Life's chance to not go off will be included in its average Wounds roll:
***Every time Leman Russ Attacks Horus (as he'll always manage to Wound him and it doesn't say it's triggered via unsaved Wounds) Horus takes an additional 1.091 Wounds, only 0.364 of which will make it through Horus' save.
**Keeping Sever Life in mind and the fact that Leman Russ can split his attacks, the ideal way to split them (for round one and two anyway) would be: 2 Attacks with Balenight, 4/5 Attacks with Helfrost. Here's what that looks like:
***Leman Russ, full Wounds + charge/Counter-Attack: hits 4.851 times (1.333 times with Balenight, 3.518 times with Helwinter), wounds 5.023 times (1 time with Balenight, 2.932 times with Helwinter, 1.091 times with Sever Life), 1.674 wounds after saves and IWND brings it down to 1.341 wounds at the start of the next turn.
***Leman Russ, full Wounds: hits 4.177 times (1.333 times with Balenight, 2.844 times with Helwinter), wounds 4.461 times (1 time with Balenight, 2.370 times with Helwinter, 1.091 times with Sever Life), 1.487 wounds after saves and IWND brings it down to 1.154 wounds at the start of the next turn.
Leman's negative to hit modifier is brutal, basically negating Horus' ability to do any damage, while Leman is still pounding him over the head. As stated, this includes Sever Life and Breaker of Shields, Bringer of Ruin. The theoretical breakdown of the match would be:
*Round 1:
** Leman Russ, 6 Wounds, WS9, S6 + charge/Counter-Attack (2 attacks on Balenight, 5 attacks on Helwinter): hits 4.851 times (1.333 times with Balenight, 3.518 times with Helwinter), wounds 5.023 times (1 time with Balenight, 2.932 times with Helwinter, 1.091 times with Sever Life), 1.674 wounds after saves.
** Horus, 4.326 Wounds: Hits 2 times, wounds 1.777 times with his Claw, 0.888 wounds after saves.
*Round 2:
** Leman Russ, 5.112 Wounds, WS9, S6 (2 attacks on Balenight, 4 attacks on Helwinter): hits 4.177 times (1.333 times with Balenight, 2.844 times with Helwinter), wounds 4.461 times (1 time with Balenight, 2.370 times with Helwinter, 1.091 times with Sever Life), 1.487 wounds after saves.
** Horus, 2.839 Wounds: Hits 1 time, wounds 0.888 times with his Claw, 0.444 wounds after saves.
*Round 3:
** Leman Russ, 5.001 Wounds (IWND puts him slightly above 5, but it can't regenerate his damaged characteristics), WS8, S5 (3 attacks on Balenight, 3 attacks on Helwinter): hits 3.188 times (1.5 times with Balenight, 1.688 times with Helwinter), wounds 3.498 times (1 time with Balenight, 1.407 times with Helwinter, 1.091 times with Sever Life), 1.166 wounds after saves.
** Horus, 2.006 Wounds (IWND): Hits 1 time, wounds 0.888 times with his Claw, 0.444 wounds after saves.
*Round 4:
** Leman Russ, 4.557 Wounds, WS8, S5 (3 attacks on Balenight, 3 attacks on Helwinter): hits 3.188 times (1.5 times with Balenight, 1.688 times with Helwinter), wounds 3.498 times (1 time with Balenight, 1.407 times with Helwinter, 1.091 times with Sever Life), 1.166 wounds after saves.
** Horus, 0.84 Wounds: Hits 1 time, wounds 0.888 times with his Claw, 0.444 wounds after saves.
*Round 5:
** Leman Russ, 4.446 Wounds (IWND), WS7, S4 (The Talon of Horus technically causes another unsaved wound here) (all attacks on Helwinter): hits 3.214 times, wounds 1.607 times, 0.536 wounds after saves.
** Horus, 0.637 Wounds (IWND): Hits 2 time, wounds 1.778 times with his Claw, 0.888 wounds after saves.
*Round 6:
** Leman Russ, 3.558 Wounds, WS6, S3 (all attacks on Helwinter): hits 3.214 times, wounds 1.071 times, 0.357 wounds after saves.
** Horus, 0.28 Wounds: Hits 1 time, wounds 0.888 times with his Claw, 0.444 wounds after saves.
*Round 7:
** Leman Russ, 2.67 Wounds, WS6, S3 (all attacks on Helwinter): hits 3.214 times, wounds 1.071 times, 0.357 wounds after saves.
** Horus is dead before IWND kicks in for him and so cannot strike back.
Mathematically, if Russ takes full advantage of Breaker of Shields, Bringer of Ruin then Horus loses the fight in 7 rounds (4 game turns!) while Russ still has 2.67 Wounds left. Whoah.
*Do note that IWND messes up the math a little at face value for Talon of Horus. Since Russ does not gain characteristics back that he lost because of Severing Strike, he'll appear to have fewer unsaved Wounds than he actually does.
</div>
</div>

The above was based on Russ' armour before it got nerfed, which before would make -2 to hits against by round two. Now it is only -1 for the entire battle.

<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">
'''Recalculations from Reddit by u/Fromageopain, showing Horus' win:'''
<div class="mw-collapsible-content">
*Round 1 (Russ's turn, 7 attacks from charge. If turns are swapped, still 7 from Counter-Attack, but Horus makes IWND first)
**Russ [6 Wounds, WS9, S6, 2 attacks with Balenight, 5 attacks with Helwinter]
***Hits 1.333 times with Balenight and 3.912 times with Helwinter, wounds 1 time with Balenight, 3.2601 times with Helwinter and add 1.091 for Sever Life. That leads to 1.7833 wounds after saves.
**Horus [4.222 Wounds, 6 Talon attacks]
***Hits 2 times, wound 1.778 times, 0.889 wounds after saves and 0.444 after IWND.
*Round 2 (Horus' turn)
**Russ [5.444 Wounds, WS9, S6, 2 Balenight 4 Helwinter]
***Hits 1.333 times with Balenight and 3.201 times with Helwinter, wounds 1 time with Balenight, 2.668 times with Helwinter and add 1.091 for Sever Life. That leads to 1.586 wounds after saves and 1.253 after IWND
**Horus [2.969 Wounds, 6 Talon]
***Hits 2 time, wounds 1.778 times, 0.889 wounds after saves.
*Round 3 (Russ' turn)
**Russ [4.555 Wounds, WS8, S5, 4 Balenight 2 Helwinter]
***Hits 1.5 times with Balenight and 1.375 times with Helwinter, wounds 1.111 times with Balenight and 1.407 times with Helwinter and add 1.091 for Sever Life. That leads to 1.203 wounds after saves.
**Horus [1.766 Wounds, 6 Talon]
***Hits 2 times, wound 1.778 times, 0.889 wounds after saves and 0.444 after IWND.
*Round 4 (Horus' Turn)
**Russ [4.111 Wounds, WS7, S4 (he is over 4 wounds thanks to IWND, but lost his characteristics since the talon wounded 4 times), 6 Balenight]
***Hits 3 times , wounds 0.917 times and add 1.091 for Sever Life (let's be kind), 0.669 wounds after saves and 0.335 after IWND.
**Horus [1.430 Wounds, 5 Talon 1 Worldbreaker]
***Hits 2.5 times with Talon and 0.75 times with Worldbreaker. wounds 2.222 and 0.625 times. That leads to 1.111 and 0.313 wounds after saves.
*Round 5: (Russ's turn)
**Russ [2.687 Wounds, WS6, S3, 6 Balenight]
***Hits 3 times , wounds 0.917 times, add 1.091 with Sever Life (let's be kind again), 0.669 wounds after saves.
**Horus, [0.761 Wounds, 5 Talon 1 Worldbreaker]
***Hits 2.5 time with Talon and 0.75 times with Worldbreaker, wounds 2.222 and 0.625 times. That leads to 1.111 and 0.313 wounds after saves. IWND brings this down to 1.09 wounds
*Round 6: (Horus' Turn)
**Russ [1.596 Wounds (IWND), WS5, S2, 6 attacks on Helwinter (Str2 cannot hurt T6)]
***Hits 3 times , wounds 0.582 times, 0.194 wounds after saves (not enough to actually kill Horus) and IWND will mean that Horus will actually heal more than Leman inflicts, resulting Horus gaining 0.139 wounds at the end of the turn
**Horus [0.900 Wounds, 5 Talon 1 Worldbreaker]
***Hits 2.5 time with Talon and 0.75 times with Worldbreaker, wounds 2.222 and 0.625 times. That leads to 1.111 and 0.313 wounds after saves.
*Round 7: (Russ's turn)
**Russ [0.172 Wounds, WS4, S1, all attacks on Helwinter]
***Hits 3 times , wounds 0.582 times, 0.194 wounds after saves.
**Horus [0.761 Wounds, gain +d3 attacks] and finish Leman...

Keep in mind that these results are made considering that Sever Life will apply regardless of Horus successfully saving the wounds inflicted by Balenight which is greatly benefiting Russ and is probably not the way the rule is supposed to work. On a side note, if Sever Life only triggers when Horus suffers an unsaved wound from Balenight, then the fight is way more one sided in Horus' favor because Leman would have to make more attacks using the sword in order to trigger Sever Life, losing damage since the axe hits harder than the sword.
</div>
</div>

Take in mind however these above scenerios do not take into account Russ's secret weapon basically designed to counter challenge shenanigans. And even barring that Leman Russ puts up easily the closet fight against Horus on any given day regardless.

The Wolf-kings secret weapon being: Wolves... yeah. Russ can choose to have both his dogs accompany him, both of which are characters. Thanks to how wound allocation and challenges work, Russ can force Horus to engage with the dogs instead of him for 2 whole rounds, making Horus use Worldbreaker to ID the dogs, since if he uses the Talon it'll take 3 wounds total to kill one dog and he can tank the full Worldbreaker on himself to stop the other dog from dying too fast, which prevents his stats from dropping early. As even one extra round of no stat dropping changes everything and by the time his stats even start to drop there is a high probability Horus will be on his last couple wounds if not already dead when the attacks from the wolves are added in to augment Leman Russ. Emperor's Executioner indeed.

Thanks to HH6: Retribution, the Mechanicum has its primarch-like character. [[Anacharis Scoria]], lord of Xana and the first of the Dark Mechanicum used to be able to easily kill Horus thanks to a 3+ Invuln, Feel No Pain, and a weapon that wounds automatically and causes D3 wounds at AP2 per hit (making Horus' talon worthless). This allowed him to kill Horus in 5 rounds, whereas Horus needed 6 to kill him in return. He also got nerfed in the same FAQ that nerfed Russ, so now Horus kills him too.

</div>
</div>

==Horus VS other Primarchs, Horus Heresy 2.0==

You guys all remember Leman Russ last edition, right? Well, as a wise man once said...
'''<big>[[RIP AND TEAR|THEY ALL DIE. EVERY. LAST. ONE. OF. THEM.]]</big>'''
Horus is a fucking powerhouse this edition, and manages to out-damage all primarchs, '''INCLUDING RUSS,''' while tanking more than any other Primarch besides Vulkan. While not industructible he definitely has a change up this edition.

'''Horus vs the Lion:'''
*Lion with the Wolf Blade ''(hits on MC 4+)'': 3.75 hits, 2.18 AP2 wounds + 1.62 AP3 wounds, '''0.99 unsaved wounds''' ''(0.73 against 3++, 0.27 against 2+)'', which is reduced to 0.66 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
*Horus with Worldbreaker ''(hits on MC 4+)'': 3.75 hits, 3.125 rounds, '''2.875 unsaved wounds''', which is reduced to 2.54 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.

:Horus wins- Horus wipes the floor with the Lion, having a 3++ and not being able to be hit on anything better then a 4+(In melee). He has more wounds and being able to swap between his str10 Brutal(2) maul and his talon, the Lion doesn’t stand a chance.
::The Deathwing subtype does not work against Horus' ability to only be hit on a flat 4+.
:::If anyone is interested: the Lion Sword causes '''1.04 unsaved wounds''' which is better on its own without the benefit of any extra attacks resulting from Reaping Blow. This means the Wolf Blade is actually the more practical choice as his attack value aught to increase when Horus has his retinue squad. Ironically probably giving him a better shot at damaging Horus.
:The Lion beats Horus at range, yes you are still trying to get through that 3++ but Horus has no access to AP2 ranged attacks, so will have to get through the Lions 2+ save; stay at range for as long as possible to try and soften him up a bit before charging, as the Lion does want to be the one charging Horus. If he can get some lucky shots through prior to combat the Lion actually has a legitimate shot at taking down Horus. Though the odds still favour Horus.

'''Horus vs. Fulgrim'''
*Fulgrim with the Laer Blade ''(Initiative 9, +3 attacks, hits on MC 4+):'' 4.75 hits, 3.98 wounds, '''1.33 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 0.99 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
*Horus with Worldbreaker ''(Hits on MC 4+): 3.75 hits, 3.13 wounds, '''2.09 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 1.75 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
*Horus wins. Despite his 3++, Fulgrim is overwhelmed by Brutal(2) on Worldbreaker. Due to the Laer Blade not having Murderous Strike or ID, Horus Ascended only takes 0.67 unsaved wounds against Fulgrim.

'''Horus vs. Perturabo'''
*Horus with the Warmaster's Talon ''(Hits on 3+):'' 4.67 hits, 3.50 wounds, '''1.35 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 1.02 at the end of the turn due to IWND.
*Horus with Worldbreaker ''(Hits on MC 3+):'' 4.89 hits, 4.08 wounds, '''2.72 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 2.39 at the end of the turn due to IWND.
*Perturabo with Forgebreaker Desecrated ''(Hits on MC 5+):'' 2.22 hits, 1.85 wounds, '''1.23 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 0.90 at the end of the turn due to IWND.

:Horus wins, with his extra attack and higher WS. Though bears repeating Perturabo is still a tank and puts a better fight than many others and can even get lucky with his Brutal(2).

'''Horus vs. The Khan'''
*Jaghatai Khan with the White Tiger Dao ''(Hits on MC 5+):'' 2.56 hits, 1.23 wounds, '''0.41 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 0.08 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
**Jaghatai Khan charging with the White Tiger Dao ''Hits on MC 5+):'' 2.89 hits, 2.41 wounds, '''0.80 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 0.47 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
*Horus with Worldbreaker ''(Hits on MC 3+):'' 4.89 hits, 4.08 wounds, '''2.72 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 2.39 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.

:The Khan's 3+ Invulnerable save and mobility aren't enough to best the Warmaster-- his best bet is to disengage and fight someone else.

'''Horus vs. Leman Russ'''
*Russ with the Sword of Balenight: 4.25 hits, 2.83 wounds, ''(doubled before saves)'', '''1.89 unsaved wounds''', which is reduced to 1.55 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
*Russ with the Axe of Helwinter: 4.25 hits, 3.54 wounds, '''1.18 unsaved wounds''', which is reduced to 0.84 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
**Russ charging with the Sword of Balenight (hits on 4+, +1 Strength): 4.75 hits, 3.95 wounds, '''2.63 unsaved wounds''', which is reduced to 2.3 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
**Russ using Counter Attack with the Sword of Balenight: 5.25 hits, 3.5 wounds, '''2.33 unsaved wounds''', which is reduced to 2 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
*Horus with World Breaker: 3.75 hits, 3.125 wounds, ''(doubled before saves)'', '''3.125 unsaved wounds''', which is reduced to 2.79 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
**Horus on any turn where Russ has charged (hits on 6+): 1.30 hits, 1.08 wounds, '''1.08 unsaved wounds''', which is reduced to 0.75 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.

:Horus wins, however Leman Russ can still pull off a win with right conditions. If Russ charges, Horus is effectively neutered for a whole combat phase which can give the wolf king a leg-up. The Warmaster has an excellent defence: First by flattening out hit rolls and negating the WS bonus that Russ gets on the charge, then having Toughness 7 which means that Russ only wounds on 3+, in addition the Brutal rule can help with Horus's 3++ saves.
::The Sword of Balenight is the superior weapon here, although the Axe of Helwinter is more likely to wound, the sword forces more saves. If sticking with the sword Russ atleast has a chance

'''Horus vs. Rogal Dorn'''
*Rogal Dorn with Storm’s Teeth ''(Hits on 4+)'': 3 hits, 2.91 wounds, '''0.97 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 0.63 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
**Reaping Blow (+2 attacks): 4 hits, 3.56 wounds, '''1.19 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 0.86 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
*Horus with Worldbreaker ''(Hits on MC 4+)'': 3.33 hits, 1.67 wounds, '''1.67 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 1.33 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
*Horus wth the Warmaster’s Talon ''(Hits on 4+)'': 3 hits, 2.25 wounds, 1.125 unsaved wounds, which becomes '''1.34 unsaved wounds''' after deflagrate, which is reduced to 1 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.

:Horus wins. His 3+ Invulnerable save stunts Dorn’s damage significantly, and Brutal (2) on Worldbreaker gives Horus a major advantage in the duel.

'''Horus vs. Konrad Curze'''
*Curze with Mercy and Forgiveness ''(Hits on 4+):'' 4 hits, 2.22 wounds, '''0.74 wounds,''' which is reduced to 0.41 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
**Curze charging with Mercy and Forgiveness: 4.5 hits, 2.5 wounds, '''0.83 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 0.5 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
*Horus with Worldbreaker ''(Hits on MC 4+):'' 3.75 hits, 3.13 wounds, '''3.13 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 2.80 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.

:Horus wins. Even with Shred, Curze struggles to get through Horus's toughness of 7 and 3++ save. Glimpse of Death can keep Curze somewhat safe, but even with Feel No Pain (4+) he takes too much damage to get through the Serpent's Scales.

'''Horus vs. Sanguinius'''
*Sanguinius with the Blade Encarmine ''(Hits on MC 4+):'' 3.25 hits, 2.44 wounds, '''0.81 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 0.48 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
**Sanguinius charging with the Blade Encarmine: 4.25 hits, 3.19 wounds, '''1.07 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 0.74 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
*Horus with Worldbreaker ''(Hits on MC 4+):'' 3.75 hits, 3.13 wounds, '''3.13 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 2.80 at the end of the turn with IWND.
**Horus with Worldbreaker ''(Against charging Sanguinius, hits on MC 4+):'' 3.75 hits, 3.13 wounds, '''1.57 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 1.24 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.

:Horus wins. Even when Sanguinius charges, Horus still manages to outdamage him while taking hardly any damage in return.

'''Horus vs. Ferrus Manus'''
*Horus with Worldbreaker ''(Hits on MC 3+):'' 4.89 hits, 4.08 wounds, '''2.72 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 2.39 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
*Ferrus Manus with Forgebreaker ''(Hits on MC 5+):'' 2.25 hits, 1.88 wounds, '''1.88 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 1.55 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.

:Horus wins. Brutal (3) on Forgebreaker is extremely powerful, but Horus's higher WS and extra attack put him at a tremendous advantage over Ferrus Manus.

'''Horus vs. Angron'''
*Angron with Gorefather and Gorechild ''(Turn 3, Hits on re-rollable 4+):'' 7.5 hits, 5.63 wounds, '''1.88 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 1.55 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
*Horus with Worldbreaker ''(Hits on MC 2+):'' 5.97 hits, 4.98 wounds, '''2.49 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 2.26 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.

:Horus wins. Once again, The Butcher's Nails fuck Angron over. GW, please fix my poor boy.

'''Horus vs. Roboute Guilliman'''
*Horus with Worldbreaker ''(Hits on MC 3+):'' 4.89 hits, 4.08 wounds, '''3.83 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 3.50 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
*Guilliman with the Hand of Dominion ''(Hits on MC 5+):'' 2.59 hits, 2.16 wounds, '''1.44 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 1.11 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.

:Horus wins.

'''Horus vs. Mortarion'''
*Mortarion with Silence ''(Hits on 5+):'' 2 hits, 1.33 wounds, '''0.44 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 0.11 due to IWND.
*Horus with Worldbreaker ''(Hits on MC 3+):'' 4.89 hits, 4.08 wounds, '''4.08 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 3.58 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.

:Horus wins.

'''Horus vs. Magnus the Red'''
*Magnus with Ahn-Nunurta ''(Hits on 5+):'' 2 hits, 1.67 wounds, '''0.56 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 0.23 at the end of the turn due to IWND.
*Horus with Worldbreaker ''(Hits on MC 3+):'' 4.89 hits, 4.08 wounds, '''4.08 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 3.75 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.

:Horus wins.

'''Horus vs. Lorgar'''
*Lorgar with Illuminarum ''(Hits on MC 5+):'' 2.22 hits, 1.85 wounds, '''1.23 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 0.90 at the end of the turn due to IWND.
*Horus with Worldbreaker ''(Hits on MC 3+):'' 4.89 hits, 4.08 wounds, '''4.08 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 3.75 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.

:Horus wins.

'''Horus vs. Vulkan'''
*Vulkan with Dawnbringer ''(Hits on MC 5+):'' 2.22 hits, 1.85 wounds, '''0.62 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 0.29 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
*Horus with Worldbreaker ''(Hits on MC 3+):'' 4.89 hits, 4.08 wounds, '''2.72 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 2.22 at the end of the turn due to IWND.

:Horus wins.

'''Horus vs. Corax'''
*Corax with the Panoply of the Raven Lord ''(Hits on 5+):'' 2.33 hits, 1.29 wounds, '''0.43 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 0.10 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
**Corax charging with the Panoply of the Raven Lord ''(Rage (4), Hits on 5+):'' 3.67 hits, 2.04 wounds, '''0.68 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 0.35 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
*Horus with Worldbreaker ''(Hits on MC 3+):'' 4.89 hits, 4.08 wounds, '''4.08 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 3.75 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.
**Horus with Worldbreaker ''(Blinded, hits on MC 6+):'' 1.31 hits, 1.09 hits, '''1.09 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 0.76 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.

:Horus wins, [[What|even when blinded.]]

'''Horus vs. Alpharius'''
*Alpharius with the Pale Spear ''(Hits on 5+):'' 2 hits, 0.83 wounds, '''0.28 unsaved wounds,''' [[Meme|which is entirely nullified by IWND.]]
*Horus with Worldbreaker ''(Hits on MC 3+):'' 4.89 hits, 4.08 wounds, '''4.08 unsaved wounds,''' which is reduced to 3.75 at the end of the turn thanks to IWND.

:Alpharius mathematically deals no damage to Horus.

==Gallery==
<gallery>
File:Horus vs Leman.jpg| Ah too many wolves.

File:CGIHorus.jpeg| The first Primarch to be fully animated. They coulda made this an actual animated series...
</gallery>

{{Primarchs}}

[[Category:Chaos]]