Editing Lorgar

{{heresy}}
[[Image:Lorgar Handsome.jpg|400px|thumb|right|Bet you didn't know Mr. Clean was a primarch. An Evil Primarch.]]

{{Topquote|For years I have despised Lorgar... look at [[Roboute Guilliman|your primarch]], Honorius. So singular in aspect. So noble. I have envied you, envied the [[Rogal Dorn|Imperial Fists]], the [[Horus|Luna Wolves]], the [[Ferrus Manus|Iron Hands]]. And I am not alone. We struggle with a mercurial mind, Honorius. We labour under the burden of a brilliant but fallible commander. We no longer bear the word, my friend. We bear '''''Lorgar'''''.|Sorot Tchure, a Captain of the Word Bearers, to Captain Honorius Luciel of the [[Ultramarines]] (shortly before Tchure betrayed him at Calth)}}

{{Topquote|The difference between gods and daemons largely depends upon where one is standing at the time.|<s>The dude himself.</s> [[Argel Tal]], when speaking about how it feels like to be [[Possessed]]. Lorgar liked the sentence and jotted it down, [[Blood Ravens|hence it's erroneously attributed to him]].}}

{{topquote|All I ever wanted was the truth...|First line of the Book Of Lorgar}}

The human incarnation of 'Did Nothing Wrong'.

'''Lorgar''', also known as '''Lorgar Aurelian''', '''Bearer of the Word''', '''The Urizen''' (cf. William Blake), '''The Golden One''', '''[[TTS|The Goddamned Choir Boy]]''', '''Hamborgar''', and (if you're [[Konrad Curze]]) '''[[Awesome|Pathetic]]''', is the [[Primarch]] of the [[Word Bearers]] legion, the extra religious legion of [[Chaos Space Marines|Kheyos Sphess Mahreens]]. He is credited within [[40k]] [[fluff]] for being ''the'' first Primarch to fall to the [[Chaos Gods|Ruinous Powers]]. Yes, we know what you're thinking and no, [[Horus]] was just the most powerful Primarch to lead the actual Rebellion and the first to be public about it. Lorgar was the first to be corrupted, though this wasn't noticed as he was very secretive about it. Also, looks just like Patrick Stewart, and Handsome Squidward.



==Pre-Heresy==
[[File:Past-Lorgar-Primarchs-.jpeg|300px|right|thumb|Young Lorgar writing his first <s>Chaos</s> religious fan-fic.]]

Like the rest of the Primarchs, Lorgar was scattered through the Warp by the [[Chaos Gods]]. The infant landed on [[Colchis]], a world of excellence, beauty and most of all, faith. Lorgar was taken in by [[Kor Phaeron]], a former priest of the Covenant (Colchis' chief religious order) and a Chaos worshipper. As he grew, he was educated in philosophy and rhetoric and he was gifted with a charisma that greatly aided his role as a preacher, making him immensely popular with the Colchisian faithful. At first, he remained a staunch defender of the Faith, but his life changed due to his frequent visions of a new [[God-Emperor of Mankind|Messiah]] arriving into Colchis, clad in [[Pauldrons|gleaming armour]], who rode on [[Imperial Navy|clouds of iron]] as he led his [[Space Marines|army of angels]] across the stars. Though Kor Phaeron had little patience for what he considered  [[Heresy]], his own grudges with the Covenant meant that when they declared war on Lorgar and all his followers Kor Phaeron would aid his "son" (and continue to give lip service to the Emperor until the time was right). Six long years engulfed Colchis into Civil War, yet, due to his insane charisma convincing thousands upon thousands of faithful to worship the new Messiah, Lorgar won through [[Imperial Guard|sheer numbers]]. By the time they were done, the [[God-Emperor of Mankind|Emperor of Mankind]] and [[Magnus the Red]] arrived on Colchis and everybody was absolutely ''ecstatic.'' Almost overnight Colchis became an extravagant world all in devotion to the Emperor. After about a month of celebrations, the now slightly annoyed Emperor appointed Lorgar head of the Imperial Heralds, which Lorgar renamed the Word Bearers.

During the [[Great Crusade]], Lorgar loved the Emperor. Like ''really'' loved him, we are talking about ''yandere'' levels, so you bet where this is all going to be; in fact, he was the only Primarch to both consider him a god and actively spread said belief wherever he went. He loved the Emprah so much that he wrote the Lectitio Divinitatus which was all about the divinity of the Emperor, and built huge Gothic cathedrals on every single world the Word Bearers conquered. And, ironically enough for a being genetically engineered to be a super-soldier and general, he disliked war. To say his generally preachy attitude didn't endear him to his brothers is an understatement. Except for Horus, Leman Russ and Magnus; Lorgar had little friends or support amongst his brothers. (Guilliman respected the fact he rebuilt planets after conquering them but they were never really close and he would become something of a pal with Angron during the Heresy, as much as can be said that Angron could be.) This is best demonstrated by the following example: at one point the Word Bearers had come to the help of the Iron Hands, so Ferrus Manus decided to craft a nice weapon for Lorgar as a thank-you gift. Lorgar was actually happy but as he watched Manus busy at his forge, he couldn't help to wonder ([[Fail|aloud]]) whether his brother would be able to craft anything beside tools for war with his metal hands. Manus didn't really appreciate the comment and wondered back if Lorgar would able to craft anything at all! Ferrus still gave him ''Illuminarum'' and Lorgar would wield the huge Crozius Arcanum from then on, but the incident only broadened the wedge between them.

Unbeknownst to Lorgar, [[The Last Church|the Emperor was a NAYtheist]], and was ''really'' disappointed towards his son but waited 100 years before telling by having the [[Ultramarines|Smurfs]] destroy Lorgar's greatest masterpiece city, Monarchia, like any good bad daddy would have done it. It's like he was begging Lorgar to fall to Chaos. Lorgar's religiosity threatened to undermine his top-secret project to starve Chaos of any kind of worship. He made Lorgar stop his god worship in a very good-daddy kind of way: He then used his [[Psyker]] powers to [[Troll|force Lorgar and 100 thousand of his legion to kneel]] before [[That guy|the Emperor]], [[Roboute Guilliman]], and [[Malcador|Malcador the Sigilite]]. Destroying an entire city is one thing, but being forced to kneel down before Great Grandpa Smurf was of such humiliation that it would inflict clinically incurable depression into anyone... Which is totally understandable as the Emprah had waited a whole century to tell that he was not at all into this being worshipped as a god thing Lorgar kept preaching about all the time, only to have the Ultramarines destroy the city Lorgar considered one of his greatest achievements to make his point - again - this was 100 years after Lorgar's discovery by big E, and Lorgar rightfully pointed out to Magnus that the Emprah had spent weeks on Colchis following his arrival and had witnessed that people were clearly worshipping him as a God, yet had said nothing then, only to tell Lorgar a century later that he was a failure and should shape up (see "The First Heretic"). 

What is even more mind boggling is that - despite this fact - it neither occurred to the Emprah nor Magnus, who are both supposed to be hyper geniuses, that it probably would have been the sensible thing to tell Lorgar right then and there that religion was not really the Emprah's thing... instead of waiting a whole century before letting Lorgar know that he had messed up. The Emprah even went so far as to tell Lorgar that "out of all of his sons" Lorgar, and Lorgar alone, had failed him. Again, after 100 years, making his bitterness and eventual fall of Chaos much more understandable. Considering such, the Emprah could not have reacted worse; severe enough to embitter Lorgar but without any attempt to rehabilitate the inevitable festering wound. A fact that apparently Malcador eventually realized at some point as in the audio drama he says "if there is one Primarch I wish we could have saved, I would have hoped it to be Lorgar" (not exact quote, but close). Guilliman had similar reservations. He never acted on them until too [[Battle of Calth|late]], probably because Lorgar had not even been super excited about what he saw in the Warp and called it "horror". But under the gentle guidance of Kor Phaeron and (fuck) Erebus; the two eventually managed to corrupt him.  

Severely humiliated and wracked with self-doubt, Lorgar secluded himself in Emo sulking, and began listening to Kor Phaeron (now First Captain of the Word Bearers) and First [[Chaplain]] [[Erebus]] about the facts of the Old Faith of Colchis: many other worlds shared similar concepts of such gods. Having unrelated worlds share a single common faith, is this evidence that [[Chaos|such Gods beyond the realm of material existence]] truly existed and were worthy of worship? This in turn led to Lorgar, willing to expand his enlightenment and guided by the sorcerer Ingethel the Ascended of the planet [[Cadia]], plunging headfirst into the [[Eye of Terror]]. The rest is <s>history</s> heresy.

Before the heresy Lorgar was widely considered the weakest Primarch as both a fighter and warlord, preferring to act more as a [[Reasonable Marines|diplomat]] and [[Ecclesiarchy|preacher]]. His actions during the Heresy proved everyone wrong (or maybe his power grew massively once he tapped into his psychic powers- he nearly got shredded by Corvus during the Drop Site Massacre). When Lorgar first toured the Eye of Terror, he was forced to fight An'ggrath the Unbound (who is to [[Bloodthirster]]s what Bloodthirsters are to Gretchin) in order to prove himself worthy of becoming the champion of Chaos Undivided, and [[What|won]]. He also got a visit from Kairos Fateweaver, informing him of his possible futures in a one-time deal where that [[Lord of Change]] would only speak the truth, primarily involving his future campaign on Calth, and a very important choice to make.

His<s> plan of attack</s> shooting of his allies in the back on Calth resulted in beating the shit out of Ultramarine forces two times his army's size, proving Lorgar was also a damn good warlord. Even the fact that his Calth attack force was finally screwed over was part of his plan: the entire point of the Calth war was to purge the Legion of ignorant hotheads who put revenge and hatred over Chaos worshiping, in addition, Fateweaver explicitly told him that [[Roboute Guilliman]] had to survive the campaign on Calth, which would cause him to become paranoid & doubtful and therefore start summoning his forces to [[Macragge]] to create '''[[Imperium Secundus]]''' which would starve [[Terra]] of resources and possibly swing the war in the direction of Horus. Killing Guilliman would mean that the separatists would never get that chance, so Lorgar had to make a choice between slaying his most hated brother, or sparing him for a shot at something greater.

By the way, in the Horus Heresy novels it's seen he actually cared a lot for all of his brothers and tried to befriend them. Closest to him among his brothers was perhaps Magnus, which is more than you can say about some loyalist primarchs. Though with different approaches, they were both more scholars than warriors, with lifelong pursuit of knowledge and enlightenment. And both felt more or less distanced from others due to their interests ad ideologies. So its natural that the Religious Preacher and a Philosopher King saw kindred spirits in eachother.  He was also pretty much the only one who cared about Angron in some way and actually ran the ritual which transformed Angron into a Daemon Prince, thus freeing him of the Butcher's Nails and premature death. He even seems to be good friends with Leman Russ, referenced in Betrayer given that Russ read something Lorgar wrote and thought that was some spiritual shit worth remembering, which is pretty significant considering how down-to-earth this guy was. Also in The First Heretic, Magnus tells Lorgar that Russ argued for preserving Lorgar's place in the crusade and sparing him excommunication when the Emps was pondering kicking Lorgar to the curb. More significantly, when Lorgar asked Russ and Magnus to stop fighting, they '''actually listened.''' The two Primarchs who just might have had the most mutual hatred stopped fighting because Lorgar asked them to. And with this comes another major topic with Lorgar:

Emperor was generally unsatisfied with the slow rate of reclamation by the Word Bearers and due to this regarded him as one of the most inefficient Primarchs. However, this may rather show how incredibly moronic the Emperor could be in his judgement. Yes, Lorgar wasnt as fast in conquests as his brethren. HOWEVER, there are these factors to be considered:
#Lorgar rarely even engaged in combat. Most of the reclaimed planets were won by word and faith, rather than fire and sword.
#Consequently from the first one, planets under Lorgar were not been left as [[Perturabo|ruined]], [[Konrad_Curze|terrorized]], [[Angron|Butchered]], [[Mortarion|Desolate shitholes]], and newly acquired, intact planets would start giving immediate benefits to the Imperium. In fact, alongside Dorn and Guilliman, Lorgar was one of the rarer conquerors who left the conquered place in BETTER state than before the conquest.
#One of the main reasons for the slow rate of reclamation by Lorgar was because he spent large amount of time spreading his ideology among local population. Due to his charisma and religious zeal, he would convince the population of the benefits of Imperial rule, how great and mighty humans would be when they would rule the entire Galaxy and so on, to the point that the citizens would become fiercely loyal to the Imperium, rendering a rebellion practically impossible.
#The Emperor made him and his Legion for this specialization, judging from the fact the Emperor created ever facet of Lorgar’s being and from how the Imperial Heralds functioned prior to joining their Primarch.
Now, with these factors in mind, a [[Reasonable_Marines|Reasonable ruler]] who is not [[Emperor|headachingly retarded]], once he would find out what kind of person he was dealing with, would perhaps simply relieve him from his military duties, and instead would appoint him as head of the Imperial Propaganda or Diplomatic apparatus, where his talents would be used at maximum efficiency. Angron or Mortarion might have been able to make war more effectively, but only Horus was Lorgar's equal in diplomacy. Even when grudging with his brothers he was quite diplomatic, and he sincerely believed he could eventually convince everyone else about his point of view on the Emperor's divinity.

He was also terrifyingly powerful Psyker, but refused to use his gift for the same reasons. He ceased this emo shit after falling to Chaos, turning into a bad ass sorcerer able to rival Magnus, or at least Magnus's psychic projection, which is still far beyond any 40k-level monster-Psyker capabilities. In fact he was the third or forth most powerful (once-Imperial) Psyker in the galaxy: second to only Big E, Magnus and maybe Malcador. (A couple of daemons and [[Eldrad|a certain dick]] might give him a run for his money as well if you consider non-humans.)

He also bore the greatest physical similarity to the Emperor: under his golden tattoos he looked exactly like a younger version of Big E's true form (yeah, yeah, da Emprah told Corax that he had no true form, but then he also said that daemons were minor xenos pests, so figure that out yourself). He has also dabbled in [[Meme|Trolling]] shown in one scene in ''Know No Fear'', where he's pretty much blatantly trolling Guilliman.

<blockquote>

Lorgar: ''Have you lost your temper, Roboute?''
 
Guilliman: ''I am going to gut you.''

Lorgar: ''You have lost your temper.''

</blockquote>

Take that BITCH.

His actions during the Heresy mainly consisted of keeping Angron on a slaughter path as well as saving his life. He repeatedly tried to get Magnus to join the traitors but realised that he was totally out of his depth in terms of warpcraft. Unfortunately, Lorgar turned out to be closer in mentality to Erebus than he would ever like to admit. When Horus was elevated by the gods on Molech, Lorgar grew frustrated about how Horus would not submit to Chaos and received a vision of his leadership leading to their defeat on Terra. When Horus was wounded by the Emperor's Spear, Lorgar sensed the opportunity to usurp him as Warmaster as well as High Priest of Arch-Chaos. 

Suffice to say that it did not go to plan and a revived Horus curb-stomped him publicly in front of the entire massed traitor forces on Ullanor. He would have killed Lorgar but relented at the last minute, banishing him from his court and telling him that Lorgar would die if Horus ever saw him again (which turned out to be moot later but partly explained why Lorgar isolated himself from his brothers afterwards). A small portion, 5k led by Zardu Laylak, of the Word Bearers legion swore themselves to Horus at that point and Lorgar warned the Warmaster that his refusal to submit to the Chaos Gods would lead to the traitors' defeat. One can only assume that following Horus' death that there was a lot of smug "I told you so"-ing on Lorgar's end.

==Post Heresy==
[[Image:Lorgar portrait.jpg|thumb|left|'''GREETINGS MEWLING CORPSE SLAVE, DO YOU HAVE A FEW MINUTES TO HEAR ABOUT THE GOOD WORD OF CHAOS UNDIVIDED?''']]
[[Image:Lorgar.jpg|200px|thumb|right|Note that his [[Galactic Partridges|purity seals have purity seals]] and his scalp is inscribed with holy scripture. Because if you are going to do it, you have to do it right.]]
So now he's the Daemon-Primarch of the [[Word Bearers]], the guys who make the rest of the Chaos Space Marines look like all around swell secular humanist types. They're kind of like Jehovah's Witnesses, except instead of knocking on your door and telling you about Jesus they knock down your door and ask you which end of a daemon summoning you want to be on. This tends to make Chaos' otherwise awful selling pitch seem oddly compelling. He also has a particular hatred for atheists, so he loathes his atheist daddy Emprah and the [[Tau|weeaboo space communists]] more than he hates everything else.

In a supreme twist of irony, the [[Ecclesiarchy]] of the Imperium (which is the primary target for the Word Bearers during conquest) derives most if not all of their religious texts from Lorgar. That Bible they administer to citizens daily? The prayers quadrillions of soldiers and civilians utter daily in an effort to believe? That devotion to the Emperor? All fostered and nurtured by Lorgar. All brought about by him and his Legion's sheer devotion. And all that shit works (Grey Knights are protected from Daemons by their faith while the latter fear holy water blessed by the Ecclesiarchy, Sisters of Battle pull out miracles and have (a) freakin' Living Saint(s) resurrected by the Emperor, etc), leading to countless jokes about it being Lorgar's plan all along. In short, Lorgar is responsible for both the Heresy that marked the end of the Imperium's golden age, and the only thing that would save Humanity in its long evolution to a fully psychic race. That being said, Lorgar is actually so ashamed of the Lectitio Divinitatus (the primary holy book of the Imperium he wrote) that bringing it up is a surefire way to have your body and soul obliterated in such horrific ways [[anal circumference|that no words exist in the myriad tongues of the universe to fully encompass the unholy rape you would receive]]. Seriously, just... don't. Now just imagine his face when he hears that [[Roboute_Guilliman|Gorillaman]] himself is slowly becoming convinced of the Emperor's divinity and is reading a copy of the Lectitio Divinitatus with Lorgar's autograph....

Since the Heresy, Lorgar's notable achievements consist of becoming a [[Daemon Prince]] of [[Chaos Undivided]] (and, yes, that is technically possible, and it was also the standard before GW decided to retcon) before doing sweet fuck all for several millennia.  Seriously, [[Magnus the Red|Magnus]] might have spent most of the last ten thousand years sitting in his tower screaming "[[JUST AS PLANNED]]" at the top of his lungs whenever he pours [[Daemonette|milk]] over his daemon cereal but at least he actually got off his red ass and led the [[Thousand Sons]] to wreck the [[Space Wolves]]' shit on their own home planet. ([[Fail|Twice.]]) Lorgar, though? The lazy fuckwit has just been holed up on Sicarus meditating and traversing the warp, secretly "Crying and weeping in guilt for what he has done" quote unquote by our [[Spiritual Liege|spiritual liege]] himself, [[Roboute Guilliman|Rawbutt Derpyman]]. Congratulations, [[Chaos Gods]], you have created the Lovecraftian equivalent of that unemployed asshole friend who won't get off your couch and who is secretly [[Cyrus|emo]]. If you believe Magnus, Lorgar has already achieved what the Chaos Gods wanted by setting up this stalemate between Chaos and the Imperium so he's entitled to some well-earned ruminating on scripture, but fuck that because it's boring. Also because it runs totally counter to the beliefs that Lorgar develops during ''The First Heretic'', which are all about mankind embracing Chaos and everyone becoming willingly possessed like his Gal Vorbak.

Apparently he was actually working on some new daemon summoning techniques, which he taught Abbadon before the Thirteenth Black Crusade. Which on the whole... is pathetic, that's like something they should be doing on their off hours when not busy slaughtering Imperial worlds. Given that Abbadon's the only other big player on the Chaos side who's still devoted to toppling the Imperium in the name of Chaos Undivided, you'd think Lorgar would be beside him every step of the way. The prevailing theory is that he's busy <strike>Indulging Slaanesh's churchboy fantasies</strike> "contemplating the mysteries of Chaos". Although if you want to be logical, (if logic could be applied to chaos or 40k in general) him being the daemon prince of chaos undivided means that he must execute the will of chaos undivided, which is, incidentally, divided, and as such, he can't do shit.  Or he, being essentially a spiritual entity, doesn’t need to be “physically” present to guide Abbadon.

As of M42 where shit has most definitely hit the fan in the form of the Great Rift splitting the Galaxy in half, Lorgar has apparently been seen leading the Word Bearers on their Unholy Crusades. So looks like he's finally gotten off his lazy ass! However [[Corvus Corax]] is now consumed by the singular purpose of getting revenge on his traitorous brothers. Corax descended on Lorgar and spoiled his otherwise magnificent appearance after ten thousand years busy doing fucking nothing. Surprisingly the balance of power did not change between the two, and Lorgar, again, ran for his life, as his [[Konrad Curze|original backup]] seemed to be too busy being dead to help him again. As of now, it has been reported that he has locked himself back in his tower on Sicarus, rocking back and forth on the floor and yelping every time a bird comes near his window.

==Poor Lorgar?==

Pre-Retcon? Of course. Even though he had to have known he was breaking the Imperial Truth it's not like any of his actions were to the detriment of the Imperium. If you don't know why you can re-read the sections above. Post-retcon? Not so much. While Lorgar still peacefully brought worlds into fanatical compliance, he also had no issue committing atrocities against worlds which refused Lorgar's religion. It's not like Lorgar was any more heavy-handed than his more militarily efficient brothers, but at this point he was also doing the very things the Imperial Truth was made to prevent in the first place. The retcon also makes sure it's known that Lorgar received multiple warnings by Big E prior to Monarchia to change course. Lorgar would ignore much more explicit instructions for a century before Big E's hand was forced at Monarchia. Of course, that doesn't mean that Big E couldn't have handled Monarchia much differently, or that the Imperial Truth was actually a sensible plan. Lorgar basically drank his own kool-aid and would suffer the consequences of not following basic instructions - likely because a highly religious Primarch will not turn atheist if you tell him to. Lorgar would go from doing the Emperor's bidding to the bidding of entities known for [[Khorne|destruction]], [[Slaanesh|degeneracy]], [[Nurgle|disease]], and [[Tzeentch|deception]]. Even worse, he did so even after being shown what would happen if he followed said entities.

==On The Tabletop==
{| class=wikitable
! || Pts || WS || BS || S || T || W || I || A || Ld || Sv
|-
| '''Lorgar Aurelian:''' || 375 || 6 || 6 || 6 || 6 || 5 || 6 || 4 || 10 || 2+
|}
[[Image:Lorgar Aurelian.jpg|300px|thumb|right|Lorgar's model, the <s>first</s> second in [[Forge World]]'s Primarch line (Angron was first). Unfortunately, while very nice, it shows in his static pose and (relatively) standard design of power armour. This said, Lorgar's armor is noted in the First Heretic to be as plain as regular Mk3, which sounds very unlike Mr. Tattoo-Head and should be ignored.]]
Lorgar may be the cheapest of the Primarchs, and he may have one the lowest statlines amongst them (aside from a decent initiative), but do not let this fool you - used properly he can be one of the most powerful Primarchs.

First off, he magnifies the strong points of his legion: Word Bearers are already quite brave with 3d6 morale tests (discarding the highest dice). Lorgar makes them all Ld10 (for Morale and Pinning tests, does not require LoS), and immune to Fear, effectively turning them into the bravest non-fearless army in 30k bar the [[Adeptus Custodes]] and [[Solar Auxilia]], but only if the squad sees him, i.e., has LoS. Hell, even in 40k none could rival their resolve (apart from Tyranids until you kill their synapse, or Deathwing Terminators). Word Bearers are quite good in melee with their compulsory psyker-chaplains, ability to re-roll 1s for sweeping advance and cheap melee-friendly squad-wide buffing through Dark Channeling; Lorgar enhances their close combat by granting +1 to charge distance and combat resolution (LoS needed). He also confers his crusader rule to any unit he joins, further increasing the chances of successful sweeping advances if they win in melee.

As for Lorgar himself, he wields ''Illuminarum'', a S8 AP2 MС [[Power Weapon|power maul]] with Smash; a MC S6 AP3 pistol for +1A and 2+/4++ armour which grants 3++ against ''any psychic empowered attacks (including witchfire powers and blows from Force Weapons)'', but against Witchfires is a bit redundant, because Lorgar would likely Deny any spell targeted at him with his rerollable DtW on 3+. He can also force one model or unit to reroll all 5-6 to hit and to wound against him once per game, which is obviously his "I win" button in challenges.

Lorgar's main strength is that he's a ML2 psyker with access to Divination  and Telekinesis. Though he got a handicap, he can only harness warp charges on 5+ ''(amended for 7th edition by FAQ)'' this matters very little, because he can (and should) be upgraded to ML3, where he harnesses warp charges on 3+ and gains the freedom to pick powers manually at the start of the game instead of randomly rolling them. This is where he starts turning into rape machine, as both Divination and Telekinesis have quite a murderfuck set of powers normally compensated by the fact that there's only a small chance of getting the good ones. While losing access to Telepathy (and Invisibility by extension) in his revised rules is a bit of a setback since he can't cheese his way through most Primarch vs. Primarch fights like he used to, the variety of supporting powers that Divination provide are a fine compensation for that. Precognition seems to take the mantle of his "I win" button, making him both tougher and killier.

Assuming you take Lorgar ascended to pick your powers, tailor your needs to suit your opponent. Precognition, as previously mentioned, turns him into a challenge monster who gets to reroll all of the things. Objuration Mechanicum is another solid power, getting easy hull points off vehicle squadrons or making units kill themselves that rely on volume of fire to cause wounds in the shooting phase. Misfortune is particularly good against MEQ units to begin with and the ability to simply have it when you need it is equally good as a result. Should you sit Lorgar back with a heavy support squad full of high damage weapons, laugh at all the death inflicted from Perfect Timing denying cover saves (though that's a strange use of a 450 (when upgraded) point model). Really, your imagination is the limit and the ability to have the power that will benefit you the most against the army you're playing is worth the 75 point Lorgar upgrade, all day every day.

===Lorgar VS other Primarchs:===
<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="100%">
Primarch fighting, while fun to see isn't a very competitive thing to do as it'll usually tie up both Primarchs for the entire game without either of them dying (and Lorgar's abilities and statline mean he's much better suited to fighting marines where he can Instant Death them), with that in mind this section is how Lorgar fares against other Primarchs Mathhammer wise. Please note that all the various abilities, with the exception of Blind and Lorgar's powers, are taken into account (Blind is ignored because it never helps nor hinders the outcome of the fights, and psychic powers are too random to apply to this and don't work often enough to sway the fight) and the match-ups assume the Primarchs are the only ones involved in the fighting, so various abilities like Angron's "The Butcher's Nails" and Rampage do not provide any bonuses. Note too this mathhammer is only based on regular Lorgar.
<div class="mw-collapsible-content">

* Lorgar VS Horus (using The Talon)
**Round 1: Horus hits 3.444 times, wounds 1.775 times, 0.887 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.554 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Round 2: Horus hits 4 times, wounds 3.554, 1.777 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.444 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar hits Horus 3 times, wounds 2.5 times, 0.833 after saves and IWND will take that to 0.5 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar loses this fight. BADLY.

* Lorgar VS Angron
**Round 1: Angron hits 4.888 times, wounds 3.846 times, 1.923 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.59 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Round 2: Angron hits 4 times, wounds 3.333, 1.666 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.333 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar hits Angron 3 times, wounds 2.5 times, 0.833 after saves and FNP and IWND will take that to 0.5 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar loses this fight. BADLY.

*Lorgar VS Fulgrim 
**Round 1 (Laer Blade): Fulgrim hits 4.147 times, wounds 1.726 times, 0.863 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.530 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Round 2 (Laer Blade): Fulgrim hits 4.666 times, wounds 2.333 times, 1.166 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.833 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Round 1 (FireBlade): Fulgrim hits 4.147 times, wounds 2.456 times, 1.228 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.895 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Round 2 (FireBlade): Fulgrim hits 5.333 times, wounds 3.556 times, 1.778 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.444 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar hits Fulgrim 3 times, wounds 2.5 times, 0.833 after saves and IWND will take that to 0.5 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar loses this fight. BADLY.
**Note: If Fulgrim is concussed he loses a significant amount of damage, but even at his worst (Laer, no CoT and concussed) he matches Lorgar's output and will beat him one turn earlier.

* Lorgar VS Mortarion
**Round 1: Mortarion hits 2.961 times, wounds 1.752 times, 0.876 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.543 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Round 2: Mortarion hits 3.333 times, wounds 2.222 times, 1.111 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.778 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar hits Mortarion 3 times, wounds 2 times, 1 after saves and IWND will take that to 0.444 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar loses this fight. BADLY.

* Lorgar VS Ferrus
**Round 1: Ferrus hits 2.37 times, wounds 1.865 times (Forgebreaker)/1.58 times (Bare Hands), 0.932 times after saves (Forgebreaker)/0.79 times (Bare Hands) after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.599/0.457 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Round 2: Ferrus hits 2.666 times, wounds 2.221 times (Forgebreaker)/1.777 times (Bare Hands), 1.11 times after saves (Forgebreaker)/0.888 times (Bare Hands) after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.777/0.555 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar hits 3 times, wounds 2 times, 0.667 wounds after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.333 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar loses this fight. BADLY.

* Lorgar VS Konrad Curze
**Round 1: Curze hits 3.555 times, wounds 2.369 times, 1.184 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.851 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Round 2: Curze hits 4 times, wounds 3 times, 1.5 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.167 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar hits 3 times, wounds 2.5 times, 1.25 wounds after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.917 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar loses this fight. BADLY.

* Lorgar VS Vulkan
**Round 1: Vulkan hits 2.37 times, wounds 1.865 times, 0.932 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.599 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Round 2: Vulkan hits 2.666 times, wounds 2.221 times, 1.11 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.777 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar hits 3 times, wounds 2 times, 0.667 wounds after saves and 0.111 wounds after IWND.
**Lorgar loses this fight. BADLY.

* Lorgar VS Perturabo
**Round 1: Perturabo hits 2.37 times (both types), wounds 1.58 times (Normal)/1.865 times (Forgebreaker), 0.79 wounds (Normal)/0.932 wounds (Forgebreaker) after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.457/0.599 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Round 2: Perturabo hits 2.666 times (both types), wounds 1.777 times (Normal)/2.221 times (Forgebreaker), 0.888 wounds (Normal)/1.11 wounds (Forgebreaker) after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.555/0.777 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar hits 3 times, wounds 2.5 times, 0.833 wounds after saves and 0.5 wounds after IWND.
**Lorgar loses this fight. With Forgebreaker, BADLY.

* Lorgar VS Roboute Guilliman
**Lorgar hits 3 times, wounds 2.5 times, 1 times after saves and reroll and IWND will take that down to 0.667.
**Guilliman Round 1: hits 2.778 times, wounds 1.85 times, 0.926 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.593 wounds at the start of the next turn.  
**Guilliman Round 2 and thereafter: hits 3.333 times, wounds 2.963 times, 1.48 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.15 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar loses this fight. BADLY.

* Lorgar VS Rogal Dorn
**Round 1: Rogal Dorn hits 2.37 times (Normal)/1.259 times (Sundering Blow), wounds 1.579 times (normal)/1.164 times (Sundering Blow), 0.789/0.582 wounds after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.456/0.249 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Round 2: Rogal Dorn hits 2.666 times (Normal)/1.333 times (Sundering Blow), wounds 2 times (normal)/1.295 times (Sundering Blow), 1/0.648 wounds after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.667/0.315 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar hits 3 times, wounds 2 times, 1 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.667 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**A close fight! It depends on who rolls IWND first - if Dorn does, he has a very good chance of beating Lorgar in 6 rounds (4.98 wounds), but if he doesn't Lorgar will Concuss him and win next turn by striking first. If Lorgar starts first, the odds shift further in his favor.

* Lorgar VS Corvus Corax
**Round 1: Corvus hits 4.741 times (Scourge)/3.555 times (Shadow-walk), wounds 3.16 times (Scourge)/2.369 times (Shadow-walk), 1.58 wounds (Scourge)/1.184 wounds (Shadow-walk) after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.247/0.851 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Round 2: Corvus hits 5.333 times (Scourge)/4 times (Shadow-walk), wounds 3.999 times (Scourge)/3 times (Shadow-walk), 1.999 wounds (Scourge)/1.5 wounds (Shadow-walk) after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.666/1.167 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar hits 3/2 times, wounds 2.5/1.667 times, 1.667/1.111 wounds after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.333/0.778 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar loses this fight. BADLY.

*Lorgar VS Leman Russ
** The weakest Primarch stats-wise vs. the one built up from the ground to demolish his brothers in 1v1 fights, do you really need the maths here? With his upgraded psyker powers Lorgar does at least put up a fight before going down, but without them he gets [[rape|wrecked]]. BADLY.

* Lorgar VS Jaghatai Khan
**Jaghatai hits 5.333 times, wounds 2.666 times, 1.333 wounds after saves and IWND will take that down to 1
**Lorgar hits 3 times, wounds 2 times, 0.667 after saves and IWND will take that to 0.333 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar loses BADLY.

* Lorgar VS Sanguinius
** Lorgar hits 3 times, wounds 2.5 times, 1.25 wounds after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.917 wounds at the start of the next turn.
** Sanguinius Round 1: hits 3.889 times (assuming Lorgar uses Dark Fortune), wounds 2.881 times, 1.44 wounds after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.107 wounds at the start of the next turn.
*** Sanguinius on the charge: hits 4.444 times (assuming Lorgar uses Dark Fortune), wounds 3.959 times (including HoW), 1.979 wounds after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.646 wounds at the start of the next turn.
** Sanguinius Round 2+: hits 4 times, wounds 3.556 times, 1.778 wounds after saves and IWND will take that down to 1.444 wounds at the start of the next turn.
** Lorgar loses BADLY.

* Lorgar VS Alpharius
**Alpharius round 1: hits 3.333 times, wounds 1.9444 times, 0.972 wounds after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.639 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Alpharius round 2: hits 3.889 times, wounds 2.268 times, 1.134 wounds after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.801 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar hits 3 times, wounds 2.5 times, 1.25 times after saves and IWND will take that down to 0.917 wounds at the start of the next turn.
**Lorgar wins thanks to Concussive!

* Lorgar VS Magnus
** Magnus (round 1): hits 2.222 times, wounds 1.728 times and 0.576 after saves which IWND will take down to 0.242 wounds at the start of next turn
** Magnus: hits 2.667 times, wounds 2.222 times and 0.741 after saves which IWND will take down to 0.407 wounds at the start of next turn
** Lorgar: hits 2 times, wounds 1.667 times and 0.833 after saves which IWND will take down to 0.5 wounds at the start of the next turn
** Lorgar's save is increased to 3++ against attacks from Force Weapons, giving him a mutual kill or narrowly win if he concusses Magnus in the penultimate round.
*** '''Happy psychic fun:'''
*** Magnus with Iron Arm and Warp Speed: hits 4.667 times, wounds 3.889 times, [[FAIL|0.432 after saves]] and IWND will take down to 0.099 wounds at the start of next turn
*** Lorgar with Precog: hits 2.778 times, wounds 1.543 times, 0.772 times after saves and IWND will take down to 0.439 wounds at the start of the next turn
*** Lorgar with Precog crushes Magnus (after a long time), the rerolls to hit and wound more than makes up for Magnus' aura and boosted Toughness, and [[Shield-Captain|rerollable 3++]] neuters Magnus' damage. Magnus needs Iron Arm, Warp Speed ''and'' Endurance to outlast him. Or roll Precognition himself with any Bio-blessing (although the chance he gets everything he needs and passes every test without any of them being denied is incredibly low, making it more likely Lorgar would win than not).

'''TLDR version:''' The weakest Primarch? Maybe, if you don't consider his psychic powers. But if you do...?
Dirty Trick: Upgrade Lorgar to Lorgar Transfigured and give him Precognition. With this he will beat any other Primarch barring Horus (and a maxed out Angron), and even the Warmaster will be hard pressed in this fight, he can also outright cheat in this fight either by summoning Deamons to assist him (which allows him to beat everyone) or he can get possessed so a Daemon can take revenge for him when he's on his last wound. 

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{{Primarchs}}
{{Daemons-Characters}}
[[Category:Chaos]]
[[Category:Word Bearers]]