Editing Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition (section)

==D&D 4e on /tg/==
[[Image:ST4E.jpg‎ |thumb|right|The "shit Twinkie", /tg/'s most famous reaction to 4e.]]
Since its announcement 4e has been a source of controversy and trolling on /tg/. Its supporters consider it to have made D&D simple and fun. Its critics have numerous objections to the system and setting, often referring to it as 'shit twinkie' (with the implication that they had been expecting a certain type of D&D goodness and sorely disappointed by what was actually delivered). More cogent arguments against 4th Edition by people tend to decry 4th over some of its perceived issues (character homogenization, signed-in-blood role enforcement, etc).

This is not surprising, given that the [[Dungeons & Dragons]] fandom on /tg/ is about as fractious as the [[Transformers]] fandom on /co/ and /toy/. This was the exact same thing that had happened when 2e switched over to 3e, it's just that A: the internet gave us a much wider sounding-board than the scattered messaging boards and mail column of [[Dragon Magazine]] did, and B: /tg/ is /tg/ and hates on everything, though not nearly to the extent of say, [[/v/]].

However, since the release of 5th edition, /tg/'s actually gone and mellowed out a lot about 4e. The most common statement on the matter is that the calculated "nostalgia-appeal" motif of 5e makes it honestly feel a little bland compared to 4e, whilst others feel free to admit to actually enjoying 4e's mechanics now that hating on it is no longer the hip thing to do. The common sentiment is that 4e would have actually been well-received if it was presented as a standalone fantasy combat simulator, but attempting to sell it as the successor to 3e doomed it to skub.  While no one is blind to its flaws as a game and as a system (the combat is still widely seen as overcooked and mathy, and the ''D&D'' elements are often perceived as not really being well married to the game that was forced to use them), it does get some posthumous credit for engaging in daring experimentation rather than playing it safe, even among people who consider the ultimate result a failure.

In perhaps a great twist of irony, [[Pathfinder_Second_Edition|Pathfinder 2e]] has, according to many fans, taken large bits and pieces of 4e into its own design concept. Needless to say this had led to much [[skub|debate]].

===Fandom===
Though /tg/ frequently jokes that they don't actually exist, 4th has some legit fans. As hugely popular as [[Pathfinder]] was and remains, 4e actually had huge sales throughout its lifespan, only starting to slow late in its lifespan. Since the release of 5th edition, the "4erries" have become both more common and more mellow, focusing mostly on just quietly talking about what they loved and occasionally needling 5e on what they see as negative choices in development - the loss of the [[Warlord]] and reworking [[Gnoll]]s into basically fuzzy demon-bred zombies first and foremost.

Of course, spending more energy on hating on another game's flaws than promoting its own virtues was arguably the original sin of 4e marketing, so...  here we go again...

===Beyond 4chan===
4e has been growing a rather peculiar reputation in mainstream D&D culture, one of misunderstanding and hate filled bile, a few rumors have been spread about 4e among the [[Critical Role]] fans that make up a fair part of the Mainstream fandom, which have spread elsewhere, rumors like; "4e was so mechanically complex (THAC0 called, it wants its place as the most misunderstood D&D mechanic back) because they were also making a virtual tabletop to go along with it, but it never saw the light of day so we got stuck with a math heavy game never actually intended to be played with regular dice (The part about the virtual tabletop is true, but I can't find any sources to back up the claim as a whole). 

It's also said to be too bloated, this is usually followed up by the amount of powers a PC gets, ignoring that a) 4e slowly paced your power progression throughout Heroic, and b) you are actually supposed to trade out your lowest leveled powers for stronger ones as you gain levels. A 30th level character has a grand total of '''17'''* powers; 2 At-Wills, 4 Encounters, 4 Dailies, 7 Utilities, and this is literally just a single Utility power more than a 20th level character, who themselves has just +1 Encounter, Daily and Utility power over a 10th level character. Anyone remotely familiar with the [[Wizard]] or [[Cleric]] spells per day total since at least [[Advanced Dungeons & Dragons]] would laugh at calling this a "bloated" store of powers. Even in 5e, spellcasters still tend to get more spells than this, at least if they're full casters.
* Okay, a [[Player's Handbook]] [[human]] or [[half-elf]] gets a bonus At-Will or Encounter power respectively, and a [[Wizard]] doubles their Daily and Utility pools via their Spellbook feature (but can still only use the same 4/4/7 powers-per-day as any other class), but still, the point remains that it's a pretty small pool of powers.

This is accelerated by shit like semi-famous D&D Animator Puffin Forest giving a bunch of 4e Noobs level '''8''' characters because [[FAIL|"They were experienced with other D&D Editions"]] and then throwing a fucking [[Umber Hulk]] and several elite monsters (elites being equal to 2 monsters of the same level) at them all while claiming he was doing the game "by the book."