Editing Non Armor Defenses (section)

== Save or Die/Save or Suck ==
=== The problem ===
{{anchor|Save or Die}}{{anchor|Save or Lose}}{{anchor|Save or Suck}}
One common complaint in a lot of systems is that conditions tend to be rather fatal or completely debilitating, like blindness or losing all non-movement actions. This effects are typically known as "Save or Die", "Save or Lose", and/or "Save or Suck" in order of descending lethality/nastiness with no clear line of division (aside from spells that do cause outright death clearly being the first name). Among the systems this problem exists in are several editions of ''[[Dungeons & Dragons]]'', ''[[Exalted]]'', and ''[[Call of Cthulhu]]''.

Ultimately, the issue isn't in saving throws themselves, but in the ease of obtaining effects that cause instant death or incapacitation and how they are no easier to make than effects that merely deal damage. Later ''D&D'' editions dance around this issue by putting these abilities, in the hands of NPCs, at high levels. It's why you don't see any mage NPCs in 5e slinging sleep spells, even though that is the '''god''' spell at low levels. In a PC's hands, it's [[OP|overpowered]] and able to end encounters in a single cast, but nobody cares since the NPCs are NPCs; but if an NPC slept an entire party in one go… yeah, the PCs would be ''pissed'' (but only pissed off on NPC, not at GM; after all, NPC can cast same spells as PC's can).

That is generally the problem with Save or Suck spells. When players use them, they're great, but when an NPC uses them, they feel horrible. Either way, they're overpowered.

=== Differentiation ===

There's a rough attempt to make lines of division between "Save or Lose" and "Save or Suck". "Save or Lose" is when a character/unit is '''outright incapacitated''', and can't do pretty much anything; e.g. paralyzed, unconscious, turned into potted plant or inanimate object, etc. "Save or Suck" is when a character/unit is '''"merely" severely hindered''', and can still do "something", albeit badly; e.g. blinded, immobilized, deaf, mute, etc.

But then, there's some in-between examples that blur the line between "Save or Lose" and "Save or Suck" — e.g. magic sleep (gets interrupted by taking damage), charmed (gets interrupted if caster harms the charmed creature), magic fear (runs away from you, and has short duration), etc. And there's some that blur the line between "Save or Die" and "Save or Lose", if the victim is not technically killed, but is '''permanently''' locked into an "incapacitated and incapable of doing anything" state that he can't recover from by himself and that is relatively hard to recover from even with outside help; e.g. "turned into potted plant/inanimate object with permanency", "paralyzed with permanency", "put into magic sleep with permanency, what doesn't wear off even if taking damage or being subject of any mundane method of wakening". Or, generally, "Permanency" applied to ''any'' "Save or Lose" or "Save or Suck" can be really harmful.

The most horrendous variants of "Save or Lose" — making the target '''permanently, irreversibly''' incapacitated (or at least permanently incapacitated in a way that would most likely require going on an epic quest to reverse, such as the "[https://dnd5e.wikidot.com/spell:imprisonment imprisonment]" spell) — are another thing blurring the line between "Save or Die" and "Save or Lose" (and can actually be ''worse'' than "Save or Die", especially if casting resurrection spells isn't something the victim's party finds to be difficult or cost-prohibitive; "Save or Suffer-Fate-Worse-Than-Death" perhaps?).

Yet another option what blurs the line, is the "baleful teleport" aka "very scary and confusing destination am i choosing!". Target gets teleported into place of spellcaster's choosing - under earth, on bottom of the sea, into air, into prison cell, into dungeon/labyrinth/tower/etc, into monster's stomach/innards, into specialized "killbox" designed to kill occupants with gunfire from all directions, into surface/core of the star/black hole, into another dimension/pane of existence, etc. Whether it's "Save or Suffer-Fate-Worse-Than-Death"/"Save or Die"/"Save or Loose"/"Save or Suck" depends on what the destination place is, how dangerous it is, and how hard it is to escape from it. 

Yet another attempt to distinguish "Save or Lose" from "Save or Suck", is whether or not successful use of that ability would end the battle and give you [[Experience]]. If target is outright defeated, it's "Save or Lose"; if target is merely inconvenienced, it's "Save or Suck". E.G. being put to magical sleep/paralyzed/unconscious/turned into potted plant/petrified/teleported to other continent is "Save or Lose" (as enemy can't do anything to you, and would take quite a lot of time to recover without outside help); being slowed/blinded/deafened/muted is "Save or Suck" (as enemy can still try to harm you). Yet some cases still blur the line (teleportation elsewhere depends on how long it takes to return and how dangerous the arrival point is; easily-interrupted statuses like magic sleep and fear; some characters recover more easily than others).

[[TL;DR]], E.G.: If the target dies on the spot — that's "Save or Die". If the target is turned into an inanimate object, completely paralyzed, or rendered unconscious — that's "Save or Lose". If the target is blinded, rendered incapable of casting spells, or turned into a tiny adorable critter — that's "Save or Suck".

[[Category:Gamer Slang]]
[[Category:Game Mechanics]]
[[Category:Dungeons & Dragons]]