Editing Silver Skulls (section)

==Who's the Father?==
====Perturabo====
Some people think that the Silver Skulls, like the [[Blood Ravens]], are possibly a loyalist fragment of a Traitor legion. In particular, people have considered the possibility that they are descended from the loyalist [[Iron Warriors]] 14th Grand Company (nicknamed the "Sons of Dantioch), lead by Warsmith [[Barabas Dantioch]], that helped '''FORTIFY''' Ultramar during the Horus Heresy. The Ultramarine part being a cover Guilliman gave them to protect them from Imperial retribution for the treason of the majority of the [[Iron Warriors]].

* First of all, the fluff had always explicitly stated that they only ''claimed'' to be Ultramarine successors (ever since their introduction in 2nd Edition, interestingly enough).

* It's stated that they don't know who their Primarch is.

* Centuries of testing by the [[Adeptus Mechanicus]] has been "''inconclusive''".

* Investigations into their lineage by the Ordo Hereticus has likewise been "''inconclusive''".

* The Inquisitor investigating them found "something" though and gave them a data crystal with the info. The contents were stated to possibly cause a civil war were it to become common knowledge.

* Their livery consists of a silver skull that looks nearly identical to the pre-Heresy [[Iron Warriors]]' Legion symbol.

* The character quote above, from one of the Silver Skulls Siege-Captains, echoes a quote from Barabas Dantioch: "Show me a palace and I’ll show you how an Iron Warrior would take it."

* The last part of their Catechism of Hate, Verse I of XXV: "While faithless traitors still live, there can be no forgiveness.". Implies that they feel they are in some form of penitence until every traitor is slain.

* Their chapter is very much like the [[Iron Warriors]], just shinier and without hazard stripes.

* They have a penchant for siege warfare, up to including having a rank of '''SIEGE''' Captain, which is a rank that was only used in the Iron Warriors and not the Ultramarines Legion, and have dedicated their 9th company from a reserve company of Devastators into specifically a '''SIEGE''' company.

* Their new Chapter Tactic favors retreating to fight again another day. [[Just as Planned|Exactly what Dantioch wished to do against the Hrud]]. Which caused [[Perturabo]] to exile the Warsmith from the [[Iron Warriors]] in the first place.

* In the Imperium Secundus during the Horus Heresy, Dantioch and his Iron Warriors were accepted and beloved by the Ultramarines as loyalists, and eventually proclaimed that they marched for Maccrage. Essentially "honorary" Ultramarines. These loyal Iron Warriors were informally called the "Sons of Dantioch". However, upon Dantioch's assignment to the Pharos beacon, his "Sons of Dantioch" are nowhere to be seen.

* They apparently have the sheer weight of numbers to be one of the most active Chapters among all Chapters, after the opening of the Great Rift. Like the [[Minotaurs]], their gene-seed has low rejection rates.

* Their main recruitment world is on the direct opposite side of the Ultima Segmentum from the homeworld of the Crimson Fists (Founded by Alexis Polux (aka Dantioch's bromanctic partner). And it would be just like Guilliman to have a bunch of Imperial Fists '''FORTIFY''' one side of the Segmentum, while having the Iron Warriors '''FORTIFY''' the other side.

* Dantioch's garrison practiced a proto-version of Emperor worship.

Sarah Cawkwell, author of the Silver Skulls series, has stated that yes the chapter was founded by Dantioch's Iron Warriors, who were adopted by the Ultramarines.

[[Khorne|They have a somewhat Khornate hobby]]-- ''taking skulls'', though they dip them in silver and hang them on walls instead of building a throne for a [[TTS|paraplegic sociopath.]] The writers have stated that the whole "superstitious" and "head-taking/skull collecting" thing is from the culture of their homeworld, not from their gene-seed or Astartes training. Basically, they are what would happen when you recruit [[Iron Warriors]] from superstitious feral tribesmen, train them in combat operations designed by [[Barabas Dantioch]], and call them Ultramarines.

====Guilliman====
The most recent Space Marines 8th ed (2017) lists the Silver Skulls as directly descended from the [[Ultramarines]], being one of the "Scions of <s>the Spiritual Lei</s>Guilliman". However, you might still think this leaves the possibility that the Silver Skulls were snuck in as a successor during the Second Founding, being loyalists from a traitor legion. If they are Ultramarine descendants, then this is likely just a sign of respect and memory for Dantioch and the other loyalists Iron Warriors, but would not really explain why they engage in siege warfare since such a thing is distinctly un-Space Marine like. Don't forget, [[Roboute Guilliman|Big Bobby G]] had his memory wiped when he took in members of the [[Lost Legions]] so that even he would not know they had joined the Ultramarines, nothing stopping him from doing it again to protect Dantioch's boys.

That said, ADB also said that the fluff intentionally associates some chapters from two or three foundings with "Traitor/dubious gene-seed", but without confirming or denying if the fluff is true. The question is whether you believe the Second Founding to be one of the foundings ADB had in mind. If so, it is justifiable to read the Silver Skulls as a loyalist fragment of a traitor legion. If not, the Silver Skulls are just Ultramarines successors. There has never been as much traction to the Silver Skulls' murky origins in fandom as was the case for the Blood Ravens, and so you should not expect GW people to come out and explicitly clarify any intended/unintentional ambiguity. [[Aaron Dembski-Bowden]] also explicitly stated on the Bolter and Chainsword forum that the [[Blood Ravens]] are not a loyalist splinter of a traitor legion (or rather, that they're not allowed to have a definitive answer to their origins), and that chapters with murky origins are just bad writing to make them stand out, confusing readers about their basically vanilla origins. He says he has had the lowdown straight from the IP people of GW. Which is great and all but it is common for GW to not remember their own lore. Like later, in the book "Burning of Prospero", a psyker scrying the future of the Thousand Sons' Corvidae Cult includes "lost sons and a Raven of Blood" looking for knowledge, but it being denied to them. That's not even a subtle in-lore confirmation that the Blood Ravens are successors of the Thousand Sons, though their flesh change issue doesn't jibe.