Editing Warhammer: The Old World (section)

==Updates and Reveals==
The Road to the Old World actually releasing has/is/will be a long and painful one, with small tid-bits thrown out every few months when GW remembers it in between the Space Marine releases. During the time after it's announcement many theories of what The Old World would actually be were thrown about, ranging from a full re-release of Warhammer Fantasy to a new version of [[Warmaster]] all being thrown about. And while GW has addressed these ideas (after months of silence), many rumours and ideas where swirling around about what would actually happen for The Old World with each new update bring interest, and plenty of... [[Skub|"discussions."]]

===Suddenly [[Kislev]]===
[[File:TOW Kislev.jpg|thumb|right|400px|The realm of the Ice Queen, returns.]]
Insert 'Then the Winged Hussars arrived' meme here.

In a move people hoped for but didn't really expect, GW announced that Kislev would be getting an army again, with updates to units like winged lancers and Ungol horse archers to be expected, as well as new units. One of these new units, or perhaps a hero choice, are the Ice Guard, presumably a wing of Kislev's [[Ice Witch]]es.

This has been a [[Skub|slightly controversial]] announcement as the units' early concept art doesn't quite match the expectations of Warhammer Fantasy's generally-grounded art style (at least compared to [[Age of Sigmar|other games]]). Plus the idea of magically-enchanted weapons being used by entire units (albeit for an elite guard) is a bit of a weird thing to see outside of the [[High Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)|three]] [[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)|Elven]] [[Wood Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)|factions]] or [[Bretonnia|grail knights]], although the degenerate [[Ogre Kingdoms|yhetees]] set somewhat of a precedent for magic ice-weapons in particular. Oh, and [[/pol/|/pol/tards]] and [[SJW|tumblrite snowflakes]] started arguing because they were [[-4 Str|women]] (ignoring the fact every magic user in Kislev is one) but that was to be expected and doesn't factor in because neither of them are going to buy models anyway. Time will tell how this unit is properly received when the models actually come out.

The announcement also plays nicely into the idea that the Old World will be seeing the Age of Three Emperors and the Great War against [[Chaos]] as it's starting point, due to Kislevs involvement in fighting Chaos and the effect the period had on the countries history. Not to mention the technological stagnation of Kislev means that wherever in the timeline future parts of TOW take place in, Kislev will remain relevant if the Empire is involved.

With a second showcase of concept art revealing bear cavalry (with the direct implication that bears will also be character mount options), Kislev may in fact be one of the starter factions. While it's very early to be speculating about starter boxes, a starter set with Kislev fighting the Warriors of Chaos would be a really nice box to see.

'''Update 1''': On the 3rd of February, 2021 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAr7yUlM0Po/ Total War Warhammer 3 was announced with Kislev being one of the starting races]. In it we see both the new Ice Guard and Bear Cav, and a [https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/03/watch-kislev-battle-a-bloodthirster-in-the-first-trailer-for-total-war-warhammer-iii/ post on the Warhammer community] confirmed that Creative Assembly had been working with GW and using the concept art of both these units for the game. This had been theorised before the trailers release, but the confirmation now means that Total Warhammer 3 will act as a sort of marketing device for TOW, and that units we see in game will most likely be introduced to TOW as well. [[Cathay]] was also confirmed for the game meaning that it may also be introduced to ToW as an army as well, which would be a very interesting turn of events. Also the Ice Guard look a lot better than they did in the Concept art so yay, the models will likely look better as well.

'''Update 2''': As of the 13th of May, a poor-resolution map of Kislev's borders in TOW has been unveiled. The capital's heraldry bears (hue) the name "Romanoff", which may refer either to Alexis Romanoff who was the Tzar of Kislev during the Great War against Chaos, or his predecessor, likely a grandfather or great grandfather with newer information available. In addition the Kislevite borders now stretch all the way across Zorn Uzkul to the edge of the "Nation of the Hobgobla-Khans", indicating that the older fluff of the Kislevite colonies are being reintroduced in some way. This is also impressive as it makes Kislev much larger than its previous record, when the Wheatlands were canon in older editions. The safe bet is that when the TOW storyline comes up to the Great War Against Chaos, the colonial oblasts will burn first.

===Suddenly [[Bretonnia]]===
[[File:New Bretonnia.jpg|thumb|right|400px|I'M BAAAAACKKK!!! I'M BACK IN THE SADDLE AGAIN!!!]]
In the final days of 2020 and after half a year of absolute silence on Old World, GW dropped a surprise blog filling in the world map with a freshly un-squatted Bretonnia. All 14 dukedoms are represented, albeit with new dukes and heraldry befitting the time period, which we can now safely say is somewhere in the 23rd century (Imperial Calendar) thanks to the notable inclusion of King Louen Orc-Slayer. The perfidious [[Orcs & Goblins|Greenskins]] and aloof [[Wood Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)|Wood Elves]] get name-dropped, and the maritime [[High Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)|High Elves]] have a string of new enclaves along the Bretonnian coastline (including one built on top of an old WFRP location), all pointing towards early inclusion of these non-human races.

===Suddenly... [[Hobgoblin#Warhammer_Fantasy|Hobgoblins?]]===
The July 2021 update was a harbinger of good news: 28mm square bases are in (meaning you can use your old  WHFB armies!), AoS-style naming schemes are out ("Da boyz woz called Orcs in da Old World, so datz what dey’z called!"), the rules system will be based on the cream of the crop of WHFB's 3rd through 8th editions, and the timeline window stretches from the late Age of Three Emperors into the Great War Against Chaos. Kislev is once again talked about, but the focus this time seems to be on mentioning their enemies on the eastern steppes - hobgoblins, hobhounds, centaurs, and half-orcs - all races which were present in Oldhammer days but have long since been lost to time. The blog muses that some of these beasts are mere rumour, but on the other hand there's a [[Kruleboyz Orruks|suspicious air of similarity]] with [[Kragnos|the recent releases]] GW has been putting out.

===Suddenly, the Border Princes===
In a completely unexpected move, GW's October blog focuses entirely on the Border Princes region of the Old World. While still not an army in their own right (they were explicitly fluffed to be a [[Your Dudes]] sandbox region to begin with) the map has been updated with a number of significant principalities during TOW's chronological place in the timeline, including a crest bearing the familiar name of [[Walach Harkon|Harkon]]. Several relatively obscure landmarks and places have been added to the map as well, and the fact that some of the new faction crests are Tilean and Estalian suggests that the other two southern realms will get their own lore blog posts in time, if nothing else.

===Not that suddenly, [[Cathay]]===
[[File:Cathay Map-TOW.jpg|thumb|right|400px|At last, Cathay army book is coming.]]
February 2022 blog finally confirms a theory that was hypothesized by many - Cathay will become a fully playable faction in the Old World. There are still little info aside from what we already know, but at least GW provided us with a really detailed map of Northwestern Cathay, which, once again, shows some Hobgoblins, but also adds several obscure Chaos tribes to the north of Great Bastion, such as Kuj.

===Eventually, [[Tomb Kings]]===
After 8 months of nothing, the Warhammer Community site finally decided to throw people a bone and show off [[Rage|another map]]... and some new art for the rule books. This art shows off a Bretonnian Knight and peasant Archer, an Orc Boar boy and a Tomb Kings Chariot, suggesting that the [[Awesome|Tomb Kings will be receiving an actual update and re-launch at some point]]. The art is also suitably gritty and is appears to have been inspired by some of [[Karl Kopinski]]s work which is a nice touch. The map shows off pretty much everything that has already been shown but has the addition of [[Orcs & Goblins]] tribes as well as some [[Dwarf (Warhammer Fantasy)|Dwarf]] iconographies, so it looks like they'll be getting rules and new models for the game at some point too.
*Update: On February 6th 2023, more information was released about the Tomb Kings. The game will, at least initially, focus on the [[Old World]] continent over the [[Southlands]] and [[Nehekhara]] (and probably [[Lustria]] [[Ulthuan]] and [[Naggaroth]] as well), though they did state that there will be a chance to go and further explore these locations later on. Because of this Eurocentrism, the main way the Tomb Kings are going to be seen will be their invasions into parts of the Old World to re-establish parts of their former empire, which will hopefully be an interesting examination of their character, especially in comparison to their more defensive "get of my lawn" attitude they took up later on in [[Warhammer Fantasy]]. A quick word was also had about the Tomb Kings playstyle and the balancing act of making Skeletons fun to play and play against. We did get another map, which showed nothing new, just the key Tomb King cities, and some more artwork showing off Skeleton Warriors and a Sepulchral Stalker.

===And later, the [[Empire]]===
In January 2023, GW showed off some Empire art and a couple of maps. More importantly, they've shed a bit of light on the situation the Empire is in. Now during this time, the Empire was an empire in name alone, and its shit was getting kicked in by just about everyone, ''especially'' itself due to the unremitting civil war that followed the death of Mandred Skavenslayer. By the time that The Old World is set, four major provinces of the Empire have all laid claims to the imperial throne:

*'''The Barony of Westerland''', ruled by Baroness Elspeth Magritta VI. Its capital is [[Marienburg]].
*'''The Osterland''', ruled by Count Sigismund Ulric. Its capital is [[Middenheim]].
*'''The Principality of [[Reikland]]''', ruled by Prince Wilheim I. Its capital is [[Altdorf]].
*'''The Grand Duchy of Talabec''', ruled by Duke Ludwig XII. Its capital is [[Talabheim]].

As an interesting note, the heraldry of Osterland, Reikland, and Talabec all correspond to three different deities ([[Ulric]], [[Sigmar]] and [[Taal]] respectively). While this is not surprising since the capitals of these factions are located in some of the most religiously zealous parts of the Empire, it does suggest that over time the religious divisions in the Empire grew much wider during this time. And while these four are going at each others' throats, the Beastmen are fucking up the forests, the Orcs and Goblins are pillaging anything in reach, and the Tomb Kings are plotting to reclaim their old lands. And of course, there's [[Asavar Kul]] preparing to make his big push towards Kislev. We already know that the Empire will end up rallying around [[Magnus the Pious]], but needless to say the path the Empire looks like it'll take to get there will be quite a bumpy one indeed. While they didn't say anything explicitly, it might be possible that the Empire's army book might be split between the claimants.

===Finally Model Renders===
[[File:Bretonnia model renders-TOW.jpg|thumb|right|400px|After 20 years, Bretonnia will ride again.]]
During mid-March 2023, GW Finally, after literal years of ball tickling, revealed some incomplete model renders... The renders were both for Bretonnia and the Tomb Kings and showed off weapons for both armies as well as a few extras such as some Bretonnian Knight helmets. The over all response to the model renders was positive, with the models looking like pretty good updates to the old 6th ed models (from the snap shot's we've seen so far at least, we're still missing images most of the models at this point). One criticism, for the Bretonnian models at least is the look a bit chunky and a seem to lean a bit more into the bad TV historical drama design than the historical design, with their being a bit less of a direct reference to historical knight helmets than before. Hopefully the chunkiness of the models is just from the model renders.

*Update: It was later revealed that old models from Warhammer Fantasy would be going back into production, with the entire article showing off newly painted Bretonnian models (the old ones from 20 years ago), in a new era actuate scheme. The model kits shown off were the old knight of the realm (presented in a Lance formation), the Bretonnian peasants, the trebuchet and some hippogryphs. The reasons for this are probably down to a mix of most of the old models still looking good, [[Grognard|people liking the old models]] and want to get them without buying from some Ebay scalper and GW being lazy. These old models are going to be re-released alongside new models so Bretonnia is getting less of a full redo, a more of an update that it would have gotten if Warhammer Fantasy had survived into a 9th edition. In addition to this the article also aludes to some special rules for specific armies for Bretonnia with an Exile Knight and a Crusade army being in the works.<br>
Finally the article confirmed that TOW will be using a larger base size than Warhammer Fantasy with most base sizes being increased to some degree (e.g. 20x20mm bases being upped to 25x25mm). This was met to both cries of [[Skub|"Finally" and "For fuck sake"]]. The base increase is due to the fact that a lot of models released since 7th have had difficulty ranking up with their current base sizes, and GW seems reluctant to make the models less "dynamic" or smaller. And while it may seem like everyone will have to rebase their models, it was also stated that having models on smaller bases should only be a problem for tournaments and the smaller based models from your old Fantasy army will be fine for playing at the FLGS (you can also put the models on bigger movement trays and avoid both problems at the same time).

===Tomb Kings vs Bretonnia===
[[file:Tomb_King_Model-TOW.jpg|thumb|right|400px|The return of the King(s).]]
During Warhammer Fest in April, new resin models for the Tomb King and Bretonnian Paladin were announced, confirming the two squatted factions from fantasy will be the first to return to the table top. Both factions will gain new models and returning ones, with both new plastic and resin models (which was not surprising since TOW is a Forge World game). The first major story will revolve around Bretonnia fighting back a Tomb King invasion, with subsequent updates revolving initially around the factions in and around The Old World, so expect the Empire, Chaos and Orcs & Goblins to be the first to receive army books and models. So if you play a faction not too involved in the Old World in this time like Lizardmen, High Elves, or Chaos Dwarfs, sorry but you'll have to be patient. Artwork was also shown off with most of if being inspired by the 6th-7th style art found in the Armybooks.

During the after stream Q&A some very important things have been discussed and explained.
*There won't be a starter set for TOW, however there may still be a boxed set with 2 armies (the difference being a starter set has a rule book and other stuff to get started in the age, and boxed sets are just two armies sold in one box), and there will most likely be Army/Battalion boxes so people can get started on new armies or as entry points for new players.
**The game will be a bit harder for new players to get into, but not impossible and the main target audience is Warhammer Fantasy players.
*The game will be compatible with 8th edition Warhammer Fantasy armies and armies that don't get army books straight away will get PDF's after the games launch.
*The updated base sizes will be announced before the game releases.
**Further to this, when asked what the best way to prepare for TOW was, the answer was "paint you models".
*Stuff like Chaos Dwarfs, Skaven and Lizardmen will have rules, but will not be getting new stuff until much later on.
*Kislev will not be getting models imminently, but will probably be getting them sooner rather than later, and Cathay will be a while after launch.
*Models will be Plastic (new and old), FW Resin and Metal (because not even GW can sell you the finecast versions with a straight face anymore).
*Stuff like AoS specific armies and models like Stormcast, Idoneth deepkin and the new Cities of Sigmar models are not made to be compatible with TOW, and are not getting any rules for TOW, and this will also work vice versa with Old World specific armies and models like Bretonnia, not being designed to be used in AoS.
**This is probably for the best as the 2 player groups still don't like each other and have not much except animosity for the other games models (despite some people trying to get them to hold hands singing "Kumbaya"), though converting TOW models for AoS will be much easier than converting AoS models for TOW.

===Core Armies and Legacy Armies===
In May 2023, this was further expanded on with some additional information that certain armies are considered core factions (read; getting army books and support) and non-core/legacy factions ([[Fail|read; getting PDF's and getting jack shit else]]). The Core factions at games release will be the Empire, High Elves, Wood Elves, Bretonnia, Dwarfs, Chaos Warriors, Tomb Kings, Orcs and Goblins and the Beastmen, being split into "good" and "evil" factions (which upset some people even though this has been a thing Warhammer Fantasy did since 5th edition). This has been a [[Skub|controversial decision]] as it has pretty much cut the number of supported armies in half, and while factions like [[Lizardmen]] were not expected to get rules to begin with, the hope had been that the setting would start in the Old World and the move around and look at other factions via-supplements, which now seems very unlikely for a good few years, if ever. All of this has also thrown into question the status of [[Kislev]] and [[Cathay]], who were thought to be core factions due to updates on TOW actually going into detail about them, but the only word on them so far has been along the lines of "yeah, probably at some point." 

In addition to all that it was hammered home again that AoS models will get no rule support in Old World. Putting to bed any hopes that some of the newer AoS models could be used to fill in some gaps in legacy armies. Which honestly isn't surprising but still some had held out hope they might get maybe a PDF style addition.

Some explanation was given to why certain factions are not getting the same treatment, as the [[Lizardmen]] and [[Dark Elves]] "live an ocean away", the [[Skaven]] are having a civil war and not doing anything to annoy the surface, the [[Von Carstein]]s are all dead, the [[Ogre Kingdoms]] and [[Chaos Dwarfs]] are on the other side of a mountain range and don't get about much and the Chaos Daemons are having a bit of trouble forming armies due to a low influx of magic from the polar gates. All of which are not great arguments when you remember that there are Lizardmen in the [[Southlands]], the Dark Elves are pirates and have raided the Old Worlds coasts before, their are other Vampires that are not Von Carsteins who would build armies and cause trouble, Chaos Daemons could be rolled into an army with Chaos Warriors, the Skaven are, well, the Skaven so they don't need a justification to be anywhere and if [[Cathay]] does get an army and models, then the Ogres and Chaos Dwarfs are literally sitting between the Empire and Cathay, so would take an active role in fighting armies and traders that are crossing the [[Dark Lands]] and [[Mountains of Mourn]].

And while it is good that many of the discontinued Elf and Dwarf kits will be returning (alongside presumably new kits), this announcement has created an feeling that The Old World might be a bit half-arsed, which it really can't afford to do, if it want's to win back the fantasy player base

====A More Positive View====
[[file:1684869319076923.jpg|thumb|left|400px|/TG/'s guide to budgeting.]]
The lack of focus on certain factions may make sense by GW as they either are already available through other ranges or because this specific narrative is going to be more focused on a set few factions to see if they sell well. Keep in mind that every army is going to take up shelf and storage space at [[Forgeworld]] and [[Games Workshop]], so redundant packaging and armies that have a lot of crossover with [[Age of Sigmar]] may end up being detrimental to the company. Instead, it's likely these factions may be added to the Old World as their ranges get updated and old models need to be sent elsewhere. These models are still available so if the Old World is financially as successful as the Horus Heresy or other specialist games could mean we see old factions have new rules as new campaigns and editions of the game release. The fact [[Kislev]] will have to show up due to the time period of the game should mean that other events like the Dark Elf's invasion of Ulthaun during this time period will likely also be supported, though they will need more time and funds to update the armies in question. 

If anything, old ranges still being supported with rules instead of being [[squatted|silently squatted]] should mean that they're not being forgotten about. Does it suck? Yes, but there is a silver lining here.