57mm Anti Tank - Revision history

imported>Administrator: 12 revisions imported

2023-06-17T15:12:20Z

12 revisions imported

← Older revision	Revision as of 15:12, 17 June 2023
(No difference)

2607:FB90:6DC2:EB93:E0BE:DEA3:A375:7FEF: /* IRL */ Another example of why I am glad Flutist is here. Keep up the good work.

2023-02-28T14:40:25Z

IRL: Another example of why I am glad Flutist is here. Keep up the good work.

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:40, 28 February 2023
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	The ZiS-2 originated as an upgrade over the weaker 45mm cannons in service. It was made under wrong assumption that Germans a) already had heavy tanks with armor as thick as that of KV-1 (but not shit) and b) were going to use Char B1s captured in France en masse. Some sources even say Soviet intelligence mistook the latter for a new German heavy tank, so ZiS-2s APCBC comfortably penetrated the front armor of B1 from 1,5 km away.		The ZiS-2 originated as an upgrade over the weaker 45mm cannons in service. It was made under wrong assumption that Germans a) already had heavy tanks with armor as thick as that of KV-1 (but not shit) and b) were going to use Char B1s captured in France en masse. Some sources even say Soviet intelligence mistook the latter for a new German heavy tank, so ZiS-2s APCBC comfortably penetrated the front armor of B1 from 1,5 km away.

	In any case, production of the weapon also had teething pains from the fact that the Commies had no experience manufacturing 57mm ammo and what's crucial, gunpowder good enough to propel the shell at speed required. When the actual fighting started, it was quickly discovered APHE punches right through both Pz IIIs sides without exploding. Officially that was the reason that manufacturing was dropped in December 1941, but the truth is more nuanced. Both the gun and the shells couldn't be produced in quantities fit for a catastrophe of Barbarossa, and it was deemed more "good enough" 45mm guns was better than fewer 57mm guns. ~~In 1943, they~~ were reintroduced in order to give anti-tank crews an actual fighting chance against the heavier Panzers like Panther and Tiger.		In any case, production of the weapon also had teething pains from the fact that the Commies had no experience manufacturing 57mm ammo and what's crucial, gunpowder good enough to propel the shell at speed required. When the actual fighting started, it was quickly discovered APHE punches right through both Pz IIIs sides without exploding. Officially that was the reason that manufacturing was dropped in December 1941, but the truth is more nuanced. Both the gun and the shells couldn't be produced in quantities fit for a catastrophe of Barbarossa, and it was deemed more "good enough" 45mm guns was better than fewer 57mm guns. They were reintroduced in 1943 in order to give anti-tank crews an actual fighting chance against the heavier Panzers like Panther and Tiger.

	It was the primary armament of unholy abomination named ZIS-30, the very definition of ersatz, around 100 of which was made. We do not speak of those.<ref>If you really want to know, just imagine the [[Myphitic Blight-Hauler\|Death Guard Roomba]] but Soviet.</ref> The ZiS-2 was also considered for use on the T-34 and SU chassis, though these plans were abandoned due to the better performance of 76 and 85 mm cannons. Post war, it was rather quickly retired due to its obvious obsolescence, being major export post war to friendly countries. In 2013, a number of ZiS-2s shells were found in a shipment bound for North Korea, implying that the weapon is still in service there. Jury is still out if that is hilarious, concerning, awe inspiring, or an unholy mixture of all three.		It was the primary armament of unholy abomination named ZIS-30, the very definition of ersatz, around 100 of which was made. We do not speak of those.<ref>If you really want to know, just imagine the [[Myphitic Blight-Hauler\|Death Guard Roomba]] but Soviet.</ref> The ZiS-2 was also considered for use on the T-34 and SU chassis, though these plans were abandoned due to the better performance of 76 and 85 mm cannons. Post war, it was rather quickly retired due to its obvious obsolescence, being major export post war to friendly countries. In 2013, a number of ZiS-2s shells were found in a shipment bound for North Korea, implying that the weapon is still in service there. Jury is still out if that is hilarious, concerning, awe inspiring, or an unholy mixture of all three.

	{{Soviet Forces in Flames of War}}		{{Soviet Forces in Flames of War}}

1d4chan>Flutist: It's not ZiS-2, it's S-60, if you're reffering to that video. They look similar due to both of them being designed by Grabin, but can be easily identified by its' muzzle brake. It's an AA gun first and foremost. You're welcome

2023-02-28T06:10:45Z

It's not ZiS-2, it's S-60, if you're reffering to that video. They look similar due to both of them being designed by Grabin, but can be easily identified by its' muzzle brake. It's an AA gun first and foremost. You're welcome

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:10, 28 February 2023
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	It was the primary armament of unholy abomination named ZIS-30, the very definition of ersatz, around 100 of which was made. We do not speak of those.<ref>If you really want to know, just imagine the [[Myphitic Blight-Hauler\|Death Guard Roomba]] but Soviet.</ref> The ZiS-2 was also considered for use on the T-34 and SU chassis, though these plans were abandoned due to the better performance of 76 and 85 mm cannons. Post war, it was rather quickly retired due to its obvious obsolescence, being major export post war to friendly countries. In 2013, a number of ZiS-2s shells were found in a shipment bound for North Korea, implying that the weapon is still in service there. Jury is still out if that is hilarious, concerning, awe inspiring, or an unholy mixture of all three.		It was the primary armament of unholy abomination named ZIS-30, the very definition of ersatz, around 100 of which was made. We do not speak of those.<ref>If you really want to know, just imagine the [[Myphitic Blight-Hauler\|Death Guard Roomba]] but Soviet.</ref> The ZiS-2 was also considered for use on the T-34 and SU chassis, though these plans were abandoned due to the better performance of 76 and 85 mm cannons. Post war, it was rather quickly retired due to its obvious obsolescence, being major export post war to friendly countries. In 2013, a number of ZiS-2s shells were found in a shipment bound for North Korea, implying that the weapon is still in service there. Jury is still out if that is hilarious, concerning, awe inspiring, or an unholy mixture of all three.

	~~This is also another ancient piece of equipment that has been pulled from the endless russian scrap pile to try and salvage Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine that started in 2022.~~

	{{Soviet Forces in Flames of War}}		{{Soviet Forces in Flames of War}}

1d4chan>Lord Of The Lemmings: /* IRL */ At this point, we should just expect them to start pulling out old cannons and flintlocks

2023-02-27T14:19:07Z

IRL: At this point, we should just expect them to start pulling out old cannons and flintlocks

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:19, 27 February 2023
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	It was the primary armament of unholy abomination named ZIS-30, the very definition of ersatz, around 100 of which was made. We do not speak of those.<ref>If you really want to know, just imagine the [[Myphitic Blight-Hauler\|Death Guard Roomba]] but Soviet.</ref> The ZiS-2 was also considered for use on the T-34 and SU chassis, though these plans were abandoned due to the better performance of 76 and 85 mm cannons. Post war, it was rather quickly retired due to its obvious obsolescence, being major export post war to friendly countries. In 2013, a number of ZiS-2s shells were found in a shipment bound for North Korea, implying that the weapon is still in service there. Jury is still out if that is hilarious, concerning, awe inspiring, or an unholy mixture of all three.		It was the primary armament of unholy abomination named ZIS-30, the very definition of ersatz, around 100 of which was made. We do not speak of those.<ref>If you really want to know, just imagine the [[Myphitic Blight-Hauler\|Death Guard Roomba]] but Soviet.</ref> The ZiS-2 was also considered for use on the T-34 and SU chassis, though these plans were abandoned due to the better performance of 76 and 85 mm cannons. Post war, it was rather quickly retired due to its obvious obsolescence, being major export post war to friendly countries. In 2013, a number of ZiS-2s shells were found in a shipment bound for North Korea, implying that the weapon is still in service there. Jury is still out if that is hilarious, concerning, awe inspiring, or an unholy mixture of all three.

	This is also another ancient piece of equipment that has been pulled from the endless russian scrap pile to try and salvage Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine that ~~start~~ in 2022.		This is also another ancient piece of equipment that has been pulled from the endless russian scrap pile to try and salvage Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine that started in 2022.

	{{Soviet Forces in Flames of War}}		{{Soviet Forces in Flames of War}}

1d4chan>Gilten at 10:25, 27 February 2023

2023-02-27T10:25:54Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:25, 27 February 2023
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	[[File:56mm Anti Tank.png\|thumb\|]]		[[File:56mm Anti Tank.png\|thumb\|]]
	The 57mm anti tank, more colloquially known as the ZiS-2, is a medium AT gun developed during the Second World War.		The 57mm anti tank, more colloquially known as the ZiS-2, is a medium AT gun developed during the Second World War.

	~~This is also another ancient piece of equipment that has been pulled from the endless russian scrap pile to try and salvage putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine.~~

	==In Flames of War==		==In Flames of War==
Line 18:		Line 16:

	It was the primary armament of unholy abomination named ZIS-30, the very definition of ersatz, around 100 of which was made. We do not speak of those.<ref>If you really want to know, just imagine the [[Myphitic Blight-Hauler\|Death Guard Roomba]] but Soviet.</ref> The ZiS-2 was also considered for use on the T-34 and SU chassis, though these plans were abandoned due to the better performance of 76 and 85 mm cannons. Post war, it was rather quickly retired due to its obvious obsolescence, being major export post war to friendly countries. In 2013, a number of ZiS-2s shells were found in a shipment bound for North Korea, implying that the weapon is still in service there. Jury is still out if that is hilarious, concerning, awe inspiring, or an unholy mixture of all three.		It was the primary armament of unholy abomination named ZIS-30, the very definition of ersatz, around 100 of which was made. We do not speak of those.<ref>If you really want to know, just imagine the [[Myphitic Blight-Hauler\|Death Guard Roomba]] but Soviet.</ref> The ZiS-2 was also considered for use on the T-34 and SU chassis, though these plans were abandoned due to the better performance of 76 and 85 mm cannons. Post war, it was rather quickly retired due to its obvious obsolescence, being major export post war to friendly countries. In 2013, a number of ZiS-2s shells were found in a shipment bound for North Korea, implying that the weapon is still in service there. Jury is still out if that is hilarious, concerning, awe inspiring, or an unholy mixture of all three.

			This is also another ancient piece of equipment that has been pulled from the endless russian scrap pile to try and salvage Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine that start in 2022.

	{{Soviet Forces in Flames of War}}		{{Soviet Forces in Flames of War}}

2001:67C:2628:647:6:0:0:36E: per request by User:Flutist

2023-02-27T00:35:55Z

per request by User:Flutist

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:35, 27 February 2023
Line 1:		Line 1:
	[[File:56mm Anti Tank.png\|thumb\|]]		[[File:56mm Anti Tank.png\|thumb\|]]
	The 57mm anti tank, more colloquially known as the ZiS-2, is a medium AT gun developed during the Second World War.		The 57mm anti tank, more colloquially known as the ZiS-2, is a medium AT gun developed during the Second World War.

			This is also another ancient piece of equipment that has been pulled from the endless russian scrap pile to try and salvage putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine.

	==In Flames of War==		==In Flames of War==

2001:8003:1C20:8C00:15D:58C2:14A3:249A: /* IRL */

2022-06-14T12:32:04Z

IRL

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:32, 14 June 2022
Line 15:		Line 15:
	In any case, production of the weapon also had teething pains from the fact that the Commies had no experience manufacturing 57mm ammo and what's crucial, gunpowder good enough to propel the shell at speed required. When the actual fighting started, it was quickly discovered APHE punches right through both Pz IIIs sides without exploding. Officially that was the reason that manufacturing was dropped in December 1941, but the truth is more nuanced. Both the gun and the shells couldn't be produced in quantities fit for a catastrophe of Barbarossa, and it was deemed more "good enough" 45mm guns was better than fewer 57mm guns. In 1943, they were reintroduced in order to give anti-tank crews an actual fighting chance against the heavier Panzers like Panther and Tiger.		In any case, production of the weapon also had teething pains from the fact that the Commies had no experience manufacturing 57mm ammo and what's crucial, gunpowder good enough to propel the shell at speed required. When the actual fighting started, it was quickly discovered APHE punches right through both Pz IIIs sides without exploding. Officially that was the reason that manufacturing was dropped in December 1941, but the truth is more nuanced. Both the gun and the shells couldn't be produced in quantities fit for a catastrophe of Barbarossa, and it was deemed more "good enough" 45mm guns was better than fewer 57mm guns. In 1943, they were reintroduced in order to give anti-tank crews an actual fighting chance against the heavier Panzers like Panther and Tiger.

	It was the primary armament of unholy abomination named ZIS-30, the very definition of ersatz, around 100 of which was made. We do not speak of those. The ZiS-2 was also considered for use on the T-34 and SU chassis, though these plans were abandoned due to the better performance of 76 and 85 mm cannons. Post war, it was rather quickly retired due to its obvious obsolescence, being major export post war to friendly countries. In 2013, a number of ZiS-2s shells were found in a shipment bound for North Korea, implying that the weapon is still in service there. Jury is still out if that is hilarious, concerning, awe inspiring, or an unholy mixture of all three.		It was the primary armament of unholy abomination named ZIS-30, the very definition of ersatz, around 100 of which was made. We do not speak of those.<ref>If you really want to know, just imagine the [[Myphitic Blight-Hauler\|Death Guard Roomba]] but Soviet.</ref> The ZiS-2 was also considered for use on the T-34 and SU chassis, though these plans were abandoned due to the better performance of 76 and 85 mm cannons. Post war, it was rather quickly retired due to its obvious obsolescence, being major export post war to friendly countries. In 2013, a number of ZiS-2s shells were found in a shipment bound for North Korea, implying that the weapon is still in service there. Jury is still out if that is hilarious, concerning, awe inspiring, or an unholy mixture of all three.

	{{Soviet Forces in Flames of War}}		{{Soviet Forces in Flames of War}}

1d4chan>Rocko1345 at 12:11, 14 June 2022

2022-06-14T12:11:59Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:11, 14 June 2022
Line 1:		Line 1:
			[[File:56mm Anti Tank.png\|thumb\|]]
	The 57mm anti tank, more colloquially known as the ZiS-2, is a medium AT gun developed during the Second World War.		The 57mm anti tank, more colloquially known as the ZiS-2, is a medium AT gun developed during the Second World War.

2607:FB90:A367:456:65A5:BF12:383E:4A04: /* IRL */

2022-06-09T07:36:37Z

IRL

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:36, 9 June 2022
Line 12:		Line 12:
	The ZiS-2 originated as an upgrade over the weaker 45mm cannons in service. It was made under wrong assumption that Germans a) already had heavy tanks with armor as thick as that of KV-1 (but not shit) and b) were going to use Char B1s captured in France en masse. Some sources even say Soviet intelligence mistook the latter for a new German heavy tank, so ZiS-2s APCBC comfortably penetrated the front armor of B1 from 1,5 km away.		The ZiS-2 originated as an upgrade over the weaker 45mm cannons in service. It was made under wrong assumption that Germans a) already had heavy tanks with armor as thick as that of KV-1 (but not shit) and b) were going to use Char B1s captured in France en masse. Some sources even say Soviet intelligence mistook the latter for a new German heavy tank, so ZiS-2s APCBC comfortably penetrated the front armor of B1 from 1,5 km away.

	In any case, production of the weapon also had teething pains from the fact that the Commies had no experience manufacturing 57mm ammo, and, what's crucial, gunpowder good enough to propel the shell at speed required. When the actual fighting started, it was quickly discovered APHE punches right through both Pz IIIs sides without exploding. Officially that was the reason that manufacturing was dropped in December 1941, but the truth is more nuanced. Both the gun and the shells couldn't be produced in quantities fit for a catastrophe of Barbarossa, and it was deemed more "good enough" 45mm guns was better than fewer 57mm guns. In 1943, they were reintroduced in order to give anti-tank crews an actual fighting chance against the heavier Panzers like Panther and Tiger.		In any case, production of the weapon also had teething pains from the fact that the Commies had no experience manufacturing 57mm ammo and what's crucial, gunpowder good enough to propel the shell at speed required. When the actual fighting started, it was quickly discovered APHE punches right through both Pz IIIs sides without exploding. Officially that was the reason that manufacturing was dropped in December 1941, but the truth is more nuanced. Both the gun and the shells couldn't be produced in quantities fit for a catastrophe of Barbarossa, and it was deemed more "good enough" 45mm guns was better than fewer 57mm guns. In 1943, they were reintroduced in order to give anti-tank crews an actual fighting chance against the heavier Panzers like Panther and Tiger.

	It was the primary armament of unholy abomination named ZIS-30, the very definition of ersatz, around 100 of which was made. We do not speak of those. The ZiS-2 was also considered for use on the T-34 and SU chassis, though these plans were abandoned due to the better performance of 76 and 85 mm cannons. Post war, it was rather quickly retired due to its obvious obsolescence, being major export post war to friendly countries. In 2013, a number of ZiS-2s shells were found in a shipment bound for North Korea, implying that the weapon is still in service there. Jury is still out if that is hilarious, concerning, awe inspiring, or an unholy mixture of all three.		It was the primary armament of unholy abomination named ZIS-30, the very definition of ersatz, around 100 of which was made. We do not speak of those. The ZiS-2 was also considered for use on the T-34 and SU chassis, though these plans were abandoned due to the better performance of 76 and 85 mm cannons. Post war, it was rather quickly retired due to its obvious obsolescence, being major export post war to friendly countries. In 2013, a number of ZiS-2s shells were found in a shipment bound for North Korea, implying that the weapon is still in service there. Jury is still out if that is hilarious, concerning, awe inspiring, or an unholy mixture of all three.

	{{Soviet Forces in Flames of War}}		{{Soviet Forces in Flames of War}}

1d4chan>Flutist: It was brought to mine attention that I was using old rules for ZiS-2

2022-05-09T20:17:48Z

It was brought to mine attention that I was using old rules for ZiS-2

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:17, 9 May 2022
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	==In Flames of War==		==In Flames of War==
	ZiS-2 has an AP of 11, a halted RoF of 3, a moving of 1, a modest 4+ of Firepower. While not about to kick asses and take names in Late War, it's perfectly serviceable AT Gun, and a Gun Shield adds a little bit of survivability.		ZiS-2 has an AP of 11, a halted RoF of 2, a moving of 1, and a modest 4+ of Firepower. While not about to kick asses and take names in Late War, it's a perfectly serviceable AT Gun, and a Gun Shield adds a little bit of survivability. Generally it's better to take them in two small batteries instead of a single big one and put those on flanks: with luck, even [[Tiger]]s and [[Panther]]s can be dealt with.

	===Mid War===		===Mid War===

	===Late War===		===Late War===
			As of Bagration, they can be taken either as a regular 57mm Anti-tank Company (either 4 points for 2 guns or 8 for 4) or Fearless Veterans of a Heavy Tank Killer company (6 pts for 2 and 12 for 4, respectively). The choice is yours, but if you're not running an infantry list where mobility would be an issue, it's probably better to take 100mm Tank Killer company instead of the latter just to threaten heavy beasties.

	==IRL==		==IRL==