Abaddon - Revision history

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2023-06-17T15:39:20Z

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2A02:1810:4E2C:A900:6165:300C:A644:DE8E at 14:59, 9 June 2023

2023-06-09T14:59:17Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:59, 9 June 2023
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	It also retconned the reason Abaddon wanted to take Cadia. In the old fluff the Cadian Gate was one of the few places where a huge fleet could exit the Eye of Terror (and the ''only'' one where it could be done without [[Thousand Sons\|top-grade sorcery]] or [[Word Bearers\|direct divine intervention]]) without being scattered all over the place and hunted down by Imperial cordoning fleets one by one. This piece of fluff was already quite dubious, considering Abby ''did'' take the full might of the Black Fleet for his [[Battlefleet Gothic\|12th Black Crusade]] that took place thousands of light years from Cadia. In the new fluff the Imperium still does (somehow) think Abaddon needs Cadia to get his fleet out of the Eye, but his new "actual" plan is not so much as to ''conquer'' Cadia but to ''destroy'' it since it houses a pylon system that stops the Eye of Terror from expanding no matter how much death and suffering he causes to disturb the Warp.		It also retconned the reason Abaddon wanted to take Cadia. In the old fluff the Cadian Gate was one of the few places where a huge fleet could exit the Eye of Terror (and the ''only'' one where it could be done without [[Thousand Sons\|top-grade sorcery]] or [[Word Bearers\|direct divine intervention]]) without being scattered all over the place and hunted down by Imperial cordoning fleets one by one. This piece of fluff was already quite dubious, considering Abby ''did'' take the full might of the Black Fleet for his [[Battlefleet Gothic\|12th Black Crusade]] that took place thousands of light years from Cadia. In the new fluff the Imperium still does (somehow) think Abaddon needs Cadia to get his fleet out of the Eye, but his new "actual" plan is not so much as to ''conquer'' Cadia but to ''destroy'' it since it houses a pylon system that stops the Eye of Terror from expanding no matter how much death and suffering he causes to disturb the Warp.

	===~~V 2~~.1 Gathering Storm: Electric Boogaloo ===		===V2.1 Gathering Storm: Electric Boogaloo===
	Starting early 2017 GW launched a new massive event about the Biggest, Blackest Crusade of all, starting with a Fall of Cadia in which (surprise) Abaddon fails to take over Cadia for the 13th time. Because he blows it up. By smashing it in two with the blown-up remains of one of his Blackstone Fortresses.		Starting early 2017 GW launched a new massive event about the Biggest, Blackest Crusade of all, starting with a Fall of Cadia in which (surprise) Abaddon fails to take over Cadia for the 13th time. Because he blows it up. By smashing it in two with the blown-up remains of one of his Blackstone Fortresses.

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	Anywho, as of the 13th Black Crusade Cadia was the last pylon-world (or the last Abaddon is aware of), and with its destruction the Eye of Terror has started to grow, allowing Chaos Fleets to leave the Eye en-masse pretty much anywhere. The end result was the creation of the [[Great Rift]], which has been fucking up the Imperium in horrible new ways. Of course, that also is not counting that the Necrons are rapidly waking and are fully capable of [[StarCraft#The_Protoss\|constructing additional Pylons]]. They, unlike literally everyone else, have not lost any of their technological knowledge and capabilities and absolutely hate the Warp.		Anywho, as of the 13th Black Crusade Cadia was the last pylon-world (or the last Abaddon is aware of), and with its destruction the Eye of Terror has started to grow, allowing Chaos Fleets to leave the Eye en-masse pretty much anywhere. The end result was the creation of the [[Great Rift]], which has been fucking up the Imperium in horrible new ways. Of course, that also is not counting that the Necrons are rapidly waking and are fully capable of [[StarCraft#The_Protoss\|constructing additional Pylons]]. They, unlike literally everyone else, have not lost any of their technological knowledge and capabilities and absolutely hate the Warp.

	===~~V 2~~.2 Cicatrix Maledictum and Vigilus===		===V2.2 Cicatrix Maledictum and Vigilus===
	Now the [[Great Rift]] does not outright destroy the Imperium like the loss of Terra and Mars would, but the difference is akin to that of drowning in shit and merely being neck-deep in it. The "Northern" parts of the Imperium aka [[Age of the Dark Imperium\|"Imperium Nihilus"]] are cut off from Terra and the [[Astronomican]], left at the mercy of Chaos with but two constantly contested corridors of stable space that loyalists can pass through; millions of worlds are lost in the depths of the Cicatrix as it spilled out; and random armies of daemons are invading realspace all over its borders. That being said it's not all (dark) sunshine and (chaos-infested) lollipops for Abby, either - the majority of his forces went all "Fuck yeah we won!" and left his crusade to pillage random undefended Imperial worlds, so Chaos forces are tugged in all directions, and with the collapse of his command structure, he cannot fully capitalize on the Imperium's weakened state.		Now the [[Great Rift]] does not outright destroy the Imperium like the loss of Terra and Mars would, but the difference is akin to that of drowning in shit and merely being neck-deep in it. The "Northern" parts of the Imperium aka [[Age of the Dark Imperium\|"Imperium Nihilus"]] are cut off from Terra and the [[Astronomican]], left at the mercy of Chaos with but two constantly contested corridors of stable space that loyalists can pass through; millions of worlds are lost in the depths of the Cicatrix as it spilled out; and random armies of daemons are invading realspace all over its borders. That being said it's not all (dark) sunshine and (chaos-infested) lollipops for Abby, either - the majority of his forces went all "Fuck yeah we won!" and left his crusade to pillage random undefended Imperial worlds, so Chaos forces are tugged in all directions, and with the collapse of his command structure, he cannot fully capitalize on the Imperium's weakened state.

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	In 2019 Abaddon finally received a glorious new plastic mini. And with his arm problem <s>solved</s> perpetuated, Abaddon can go back to (trying to) destroy the Imperium.		In 2019 Abaddon finally received a glorious new plastic mini. And with his arm problem <s>solved</s> perpetuated, Abaddon can go back to (trying to) destroy the Imperium.

	== On the Tabletop ==		==On the Tabletop==
	[[File:Slaash!.jpg\|right\|300px\|thumbnail\|He has some badass moments too. Notice his sword is so awesome that it [[Katanas are Underpowered in d20\|can cut a guy in half, and another guy into five seperate pieces with a single horizontal slash]]. How does that even work? Fucked if we know, but it's [[Awesome\|awesome]]. And he's Primarch-sized, apparently someone ate his veggies.]]To his credit, Abaddon is a hilariously destructive force on the tabletop - between his Daemon Sword, Drachn'yen (which houses an extremely powerful Chaos Undivided daemon born from humanity's first act of murder), Combined Chaos Mark, and [[Talon of Horus]] rules, there are very few units in the TT game which can go toe-to-toe with Abaddon and hope to come out on top. Truthfully, most forces lack entire ''squads'' that can do much more than offer him more than a token resistance. He can be [[Tarpit\|tarpitted]], but even this isn't guaranteed as his balls-out toughness and sheer volume of attacks (if you roll well) means he will mulch through formations by himself. If Abaddon gets near something, that something is going to wind up [[FATAL\|raped]] in a matter of seconds. So, copy his statline into your homebrew Chaos Lord.		[[File:Slaash!.jpg\|right\|300px\|thumbnail\|He has some badass moments too. Notice his sword is so awesome that it [[Katanas are Underpowered in d20\|can cut a guy in half, and another guy into five seperate pieces with a single horizontal slash]]. How does that even work? Fucked if we know, but it's [[Awesome\|awesome]]. And he's Primarch-sized, apparently someone ate his veggies.]]To his credit, Abaddon is a hilariously destructive force on the tabletop - between his Daemon Sword, Drachn'yen (which houses an extremely powerful Chaos Undivided daemon born from humanity's first act of murder), Combined Chaos Mark, and [[Talon of Horus]] rules, there are very few units in the TT game which can go toe-to-toe with Abaddon and hope to come out on top. Truthfully, most forces lack entire ''squads'' that can do much more than offer him more than a token resistance. He can be [[Tarpit\|tarpitted]], but even this isn't guaranteed as his balls-out toughness and sheer volume of attacks (if you roll well) means he will mulch through formations by himself. If Abaddon gets near something, that something is going to wind up [[FATAL\|raped]] in a matter of seconds. So, copy his statline into your homebrew Chaos Lord.

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	==The Talon of Horus==		==The Talon of Horus==
	Also see [[awesome]]. Basically a book written by the biggest Abaddon fanboy of them all, [[Aaron Dembski-Bowden]]. Though the book is mostly about [[Iskandar Khayon]], a former Thousand Son who's really <s>[[Ygethmor]]</s> (except he wasn't, [[Just as Planned\|there never was a Ygethmor]]). It has a lot of the Big Bad 'Un in it.		Also see [[awesome]]. Basically a book written by the biggest Abaddon fanboy of them all, [[Aaron Dembski-Bowden]]. Though the book is mostly about [[Iskandar Khayon]], a former Thousand Son who's really <s>[[Ygethmor]]</s> (except he wasn't, [[Just as Planned\|there never was a Ygethmor]]). It has a lot of the Big Bad 'Un in it.

	And Abbadon kills [[Horus]]...		And Abbadon kills [[Horus]]...

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	Where tens of sorcerers invoked the name of Tzeench, casting arcane powers, now thousands walk, their power darkening the skies. Where small groups of Slaaneshi slaughtered, driven to ecstasy, now battalions march, their perversion driving mortal men insane. Where only few squads of Nurgle's plague sons walked, their diseases poisoning the air, now uncountable armies march, bringing endless death, as even the earth breaks under their feet. The Despoiler planned this; now is his time to strike. The Imperium besieged from all sides, each enemy requiring more than the entire might of what can be given. They cannot win this battle. The Despoiler has at least nine legions of Astartes - Black Legion, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Death Guard, Emperor's Children, Night Lords, Alpha Legion. And his ally Blackheart has his legion of Red Corsairs. For hundreds, if not thousands of years, these legions grew impossibly huge. Not caring about their purity, not having a tithe, they increased to tens of millions. Endlessly increasing armies of cultists and traitor guard march with them bringing endless destruction. Daemons rip into realspace with every death, bringing even more of it, slaughtering enemies easily and endlessly.		Where tens of sorcerers invoked the name of Tzeench, casting arcane powers, now thousands walk, their power darkening the skies. Where small groups of Slaaneshi slaughtered, driven to ecstasy, now battalions march, their perversion driving mortal men insane. Where only few squads of Nurgle's plague sons walked, their diseases poisoning the air, now uncountable armies march, bringing endless death, as even the earth breaks under their feet. The Despoiler planned this; now is his time to strike. The Imperium besieged from all sides, each enemy requiring more than the entire might of what can be given. They cannot win this battle. The Despoiler has at least nine legions of Astartes - Black Legion, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Death Guard, Emperor's Children, Night Lords, Alpha Legion. And his ally Blackheart has his legion of Red Corsairs. For hundreds, if not thousands of years, these legions grew impossibly huge. Not caring about their purity, not having a tithe, they increased to tens of millions. Endlessly increasing armies of cultists and traitor guard march with them bringing endless destruction. Daemons rip into realspace with every death, bringing even more of it, slaughtering enemies easily and endlessly.

	And now is the time of the end. The Imperium would have already fallen. Even the first assault was incredibly brutal. The only reason that the Imperium is still holding are the genius of a general that is leading the Cadian regiments, and Necron and Eldar support. Only with this, the Imperium endures, but even so the Despoiler advances. Nothing can and will stop him, that’s why we joined him, on this crusade. We will get our homeworld back from loyalist dogs. And then the Legion of Scelus will rise again.		And now is the time of the end. The Imperium would have already fallen. Even the first assault was incredibly brutal. The only reason that the Imperium is still holding are the genius of a general that is leading the Cadian regiments, and Necron and Eldar support. Only with this, the Imperium endures, but even so the Despoiler advances. Nothing can and will stop him, that’s why we joined him, on this crusade. We will get our homeworld back from loyalist dogs. And then the Legion of Scelus will rise again. And so you ask if the Despoiler is a fool? The fools are those, who didn’t hunt him down millennia ago. For he is the reason the Imperium shall fall.” The captain turned around and started walking, his steps the only sound echoing in the silent corridors.
	And so you ask if the Despoiler is a fool? The fools are those, who didn’t hunt him down millennia ago. For he is the reason the Imperium shall fall.” The captain turned around and started walking, his steps the only sound echoing in the silent corridors.

	==On his personality==		==On his personality==

2A02:1810:4E2C:A900:6131:1E26:C449:F533 at 19:49, 2 June 2023

2023-06-02T19:49:09Z

Show changes

2A02:1808:86:7148:E58C:28C5:307:D094 at 20:50, 26 May 2023

2023-05-26T20:50:27Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:50, 26 May 2023
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	Later it was retconned that [[Just as planned\|blowing up Cadia ''was'' his plan all along]], but he just needed to blow up all the ''other'' pylon-housing planets around the Eye before that. Destroying them was the true goal of most of his ''previous'' crusades (along with the other stuff noted above), and most of his activities, including early half-assed assaults on Cadia served to distract the Imperium and hide his true agenda. So in other words, [[Jojo's Bizarre Adventure\|he was only ''pretending'' to be unsuccessful.]] Or so he tells himself - the retcons make it look like he still fucked around so long that it took him millenia to [[Exterminatus\|blow up a planet]], something that happens any time an Inquisitor sneezes, whereas the previous reason for not destroying Cadia (gaining a fantastic fortress world and making it nearly impossible for the Imperium to take back so he'd have a base of operations, making it the evil counterpart to Terra) was a good enough reason for why he never tried firing one of a million ways of destroying a planet at it.		Later it was retconned that [[Just as planned\|blowing up Cadia ''was'' his plan all along]], but he just needed to blow up all the ''other'' pylon-housing planets around the Eye before that. Destroying them was the true goal of most of his ''previous'' crusades (along with the other stuff noted above), and most of his activities, including early half-assed assaults on Cadia served to distract the Imperium and hide his true agenda. So in other words, [[Jojo's Bizarre Adventure\|he was only ''pretending'' to be unsuccessful.]] Or so he tells himself - the retcons make it look like he still fucked around so long that it took him millenia to [[Exterminatus\|blow up a planet]], something that happens any time an Inquisitor sneezes, whereas the previous reason for not destroying Cadia (gaining a fantastic fortress world and making it nearly impossible for the Imperium to take back so he'd have a base of operations, making it the evil counterpart to Terra) was a good enough reason for why he never tried firing one of a million ways of destroying a planet at it.

	Anywho, as of the 13th Black Crusade Cadia was the last pylon-world (or the last Abaddon is aware of), and with its destruction the Eye of Terror has started to grow, allowing Chaos Fleets to leave the Eye en-masse pretty much anywhere. The end result was the creation of the [[Great Rift]], which has been fucking up the Imperium in horrible new ways. Of course, that also is not counting that the Necrons are rapidly waking and are fully capable of [[StarCraft#The_Protoss\|constructing additional Pylons]]. They, unlike literally everyone else, have not lost any of their technological knowledge and capabilities and absolutely hate the Warp.		Anywho, as of the 13th Black Crusade Cadia was the last pylon-world (or the last Abaddon is aware of), and with its destruction the Eye of Terror has started to grow, allowing Chaos Fleets to leave the Eye en-masse pretty much anywhere. The end result was the creation of the [[Great Rift]], which has been fucking up the Imperium in horrible new ways. Of course, that also is not counting that the Necrons are rapidly waking and are fully capable of [[StarCraft#The_Protoss\|constructing additional Pylons]]. They, unlike literally everyone else, have not lost any of their technological knowledge and capabilities and absolutely hate the Warp.

	===V 2.2 Cicatrix Maledictum and Vigilus===		===V 2.2 Cicatrix Maledictum and Vigilus===
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	== On the Tabletop ==		== On the Tabletop ==
	[[File:Slaash!.jpg\|right\|300px\|thumbnail\|He has some badass moments too. Notice his sword is so awesome that it [[Katanas are Underpowered in d20\|can cut a guy in half, and another guy into five seperate pieces with a single horizontal slash]]. How does that even work? Fucked if we know, but it's [[Awesome\|awesome]]. And he's Primarch-sized, apparently someone ate his veggies.]]To his credit, Abaddon is a hilariously destructive force on the tabletop - between his Daemon Sword, Drachn'yen (which houses an extremely powerful Chaos Undivided daemon born from humanity's first act of murder), Combined Chaos Mark, and [[Talon of Horus]] rules, there are very few units in the TT game which can go toe-to-toe with Abaddon and hope to come out on top. Truthfully, most forces lack entire ''squads'' that can do much more than offer him more than a token resistance. He can be [[Tarpit\|tarpitted]], but even this isn't guaranteed as his balls-out toughness and sheer volume of attacks (if you roll well) means he will mulch through formations by himself. If Abaddon gets near something, that something is going to wind up [[FATAL\|raped]] in a matter of seconds. So, copy his statline into your homebrew Chaos Lord.		[[File:Slaash!.jpg\|right\|300px\|thumbnail\|He has some badass moments too. Notice his sword is so awesome that it [[Katanas are Underpowered in d20\|can cut a guy in half, and another guy into five seperate pieces with a single horizontal slash]]. How does that even work? Fucked if we know, but it's [[Awesome\|awesome]]. And he's Primarch-sized, apparently someone ate his veggies.]]To his credit, Abaddon is a hilariously destructive force on the tabletop - between his Daemon Sword, Drachn'yen (which houses an extremely powerful Chaos Undivided daemon born from humanity's first act of murder), Combined Chaos Mark, and [[Talon of Horus]] rules, there are very few units in the TT game which can go toe-to-toe with Abaddon and hope to come out on top. Truthfully, most forces lack entire ''squads'' that can do much more than offer him more than a token resistance. He can be [[Tarpit\|tarpitted]], but even this isn't guaranteed as his balls-out toughness and sheer volume of attacks (if you roll well) means he will mulch through formations by himself. If Abaddon gets near something, that something is going to wind up [[FATAL\|raped]] in a matter of seconds. So, copy his statline into your homebrew Chaos Lord.

	The actual rules for him get changed quite a bit between editions, typically regarding exactly what Drachn'yen actually does in combat. During 2nd edition, it was basically a titan close combat weapon, auto-wounding with instant death, no armor saves, and auto-penetrating vehicles regardless of their armor. He also had terminator armor in the days when it made a save on 2[[D6]], with <s>3+ save</s> 2+ save thanks to Khorne's blessing (the rules back then had weapons that could modify an armor save, so that wasn't as completely broken as it sounds), or he could use the Talon of Horus, which was still a strong weapon. 3rd edition watered him down heavily; he'd attack with the Talon of Horus and make a single attack with Drachn'yen. This attack could not be re-rolled in any way, but if it hit would cause an auto-wound with no armour save allowed, and if the enemy failed their invuln (or didn't have one) then whatever he hit would be immediately removed from play (vehicles still suffered just a penetrating hit). In 4th edition, it functioned like other Daemon Weapons, rolling a D6 and adding the number to his attacks, but no attacks if he rolled a 1 (assuming he charged, this could mean 11 attacks) and he took a wound with no armor save (still got his invul save though), and the sword made his attacks S8 with him able to re-roll any failed wounds due to the Talon of Horus. He was briefly [[nerf]]ed by the 6th edition changes to [[power weapon]]s that made his stuff AP3, but FAQ made them AP2. If a Chaos army didn't field a [[Daemon Prince]], then it usually fielded Abaddon or [[Kharn]].		The actual rules for him get changed quite a bit between editions, typically regarding exactly what Drachn'yen actually does in combat. During 2nd edition, it was basically a titan close combat weapon, auto-wounding with instant death, no armor saves, and auto-penetrating vehicles regardless of their armor. He also had terminator armor in the days when it made a save on 2[[D6]], with <s>3+ save</s> 2+ save thanks to Khorne's blessing (the rules back then had weapons that could modify an armor save, so that wasn't as completely broken as it sounds), or he could use the Talon of Horus, which was still a strong weapon. 3rd edition watered him down heavily; he'd attack with the Talon of Horus and make a single attack with Drachn'yen. This attack could not be re-rolled in any way, but if it hit would cause an auto-wound with no armour save allowed, and if the enemy failed their invuln (or didn't have one) then whatever he hit would be immediately removed from play (vehicles still suffered just a penetrating hit). In 4th edition, it functioned like other Daemon Weapons, rolling a D6 and adding the number to his attacks, but no attacks if he rolled a 1 (assuming he charged, this could mean 11 attacks) and he took a wound with no armor save (still got his invul save though), and the sword made his attacks S8 with him able to re-roll any failed wounds due to the Talon of Horus. He was briefly [[nerf]]ed by the 6th edition changes to [[power weapon]]s that made his stuff AP3, but FAQ made them AP2. If a Chaos army didn't field a [[Daemon Prince]], then it usually fielded Abaddon or [[Kharn]].

1d4chan>StringBean: /* In Abbadon's Defense */

2023-05-12T12:53:36Z

In Abbadon's Defense

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:53, 12 May 2023
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	A more generous way of looking at it is that Abaddon is a strong leader, albeit one with flaws, and starting from a trickier point than Horus. In the Heresy, he was in charge of speartips (an elite assault force typically made of Terminators), and while he certainly advised Horus on larger scale wars, he typically left logistics to other members of the Mournival, and largely to Horus himself. Thus, while he is one of the best warriors of the Chaos Space Marines, and perhaps the most charismatic (we're given fluff about other Chaos Lords just going to see what he's like and end up spontaneously signing up to the Black Legion), he is [[Derp\|not suited]] to the intricacies of [[Tzeentch\|planning]] a large scale crusade. Horus himself failed to take over the Imperium, and he was said to be the greatest of the Primarchs; certainly the best warlord among them. He commanded the obedience of the Traitor Legions, whereas Abaddon must prove his authority by force <strike>of arms</strike> again and again. This is also backed by his own rules, he's a close combat monster but barely buffs his army (only his warlord trait really). At the same time, while the Imperium struggled to get their heads around the concept of Legions rebelling, allowing Horus to spring all sorts of nasty surprises on them, plus all the Chaotic tricks up his sleeve, in 40K they know Abaddon's overall goals and have taken a shit-ton of precautions against it.		A more generous way of looking at it is that Abaddon is a strong leader, albeit one with flaws, and starting from a trickier point than Horus. In the Heresy, he was in charge of speartips (an elite assault force typically made of Terminators), and while he certainly advised Horus on larger scale wars, he typically left logistics to other members of the Mournival, and largely to Horus himself. Thus, while he is one of the best warriors of the Chaos Space Marines, and perhaps the most charismatic (we're given fluff about other Chaos Lords just going to see what he's like and end up spontaneously signing up to the Black Legion), he is [[Derp\|not suited]] to the intricacies of [[Tzeentch\|planning]] a large scale crusade. Horus himself failed to take over the Imperium, and he was said to be the greatest of the Primarchs; certainly the best warlord among them. He commanded the obedience of the Traitor Legions, whereas Abaddon must prove his authority by force <strike>of arms</strike> again and again. This is also backed by his own rules, he's a close combat monster but barely buffs his army (only his warlord trait really). At the same time, while the Imperium struggled to get their heads around the concept of Legions rebelling, allowing Horus to spring all sorts of nasty surprises on them, plus all the Chaotic tricks up his sleeve, in 40K they know Abaddon's overall goals and have taken a shit-ton of precautions against it.

	And let's not forget that forces under Abaddon's command aren't the disciplined legions of old - with the exception of the Black Legion, his armies are full of batshit insane lunatics who would happily [[Death Guard\|poison]], [[World Eaters\|murder]], [[Sons of Malice\|eat]] and [[Emperor's Children\|rape]] each other (In no particular order) at a slightest provocation and all believe that leadership belongs to whoever can take it from the guy currently in charge, and as so detailed strategic planning for these madmen have as much sense as a planning for an Ork WAAAGH! Think about it; do you have any idea how hard it would be to command several hundred thousand Marines -not to mention several million or even billion [[Lost and the Damned\|renegades]] and [[Cultist-Chan\|cultists]]- with their own agendas, dogmas, beliefs, and levels of discipline to work together in unison, let alone potentially trillions or more other mortal assets? Everyone in your army, especially those of rival gods, are gunning after each other's heads and probably even your own. Also, everyone seems to forget that with such a large army there is a practical bureaucracy to things, where superiors have a whole slew of underlings and those underlings might even have their own mobs of cackling maniacs to look after, and in the heat of battle shit gets hairy when a leader gets whacked. And there are the Chaos Gods themselves; [[Slaanesh\|dicking]] over their rivals and their own forces at random times and giving their followers random "blessings", which may or may not be just [[Tzeentch\|mutating horribly,]] [[Khorne\|the sudden urge to go nuts and collect skulls,]] [[Nurgle\|become a walking corpse]], [[Slaanesh\|grow a dick and tits]], or becoming a Chaos Spa... a '''[[Chaos Spawn\|Thing]].'''		And let's not forget that forces under Abaddon's command aren't the disciplined legions of old - with the exception of the Black Legion, his armies are full of batshit insane lunatics who would happily [[Death Guard\|poison]], [[World Eaters\|murder]], [[Sons of Malice\|eat]], [[Thousand Sons\|out-scheme]], and [[Emperor's Children\|rape]] each other (In no particular order) at a slightest provocation and all believe that leadership belongs to whoever can take it from the guy currently in charge, and as so detailed strategic planning for these madmen have as much sense as a planning for an Ork WAAAGH! Think about it; do you have any idea how hard it would be to command several hundred thousand Marines -not to mention several million or even billion [[Lost and the Damned\|renegades]] and [[Cultist-Chan\|cultists]]- with their own agendas, dogmas, beliefs, and levels of discipline to work together in unison, let alone potentially trillions or more other mortal assets? Everyone in your army, especially those of rival gods, are gunning after each other's heads and probably even your own. Also, everyone seems to forget that with such a large army there is a practical bureaucracy to things, where superiors have a whole slew of underlings and those underlings might even have their own mobs of cackling maniacs to look after, and in the heat of battle shit gets hairy when a leader gets whacked. And there are the Chaos Gods themselves; [[Slaanesh\|dicking]] over their rivals and their own forces at random times and giving their followers random "blessings", which may or may not be just [[Tzeentch\|mutating horribly]], [[Khorne\|the sudden urge to go nuts and collect skulls]], [[Nurgle\|become a walking corpse]], [[Slaanesh\|grow a dick and tits]], or becoming a Chaos Spa... a '''[[Chaos Spawn\|Thing]].'''

	It also seems that Abby is the only person in entire galaxy who figured how to properly use prophecies and future telling powers in military campaign planning. When your average Thousand Son sorcerer or Eldar Farseer searches through the waves of possible timelines, he usually seeks the answer to the question "How would I win?", while Abaddon orders his own diviners to ask "How would I lose?" and then use the intel they get to, well, avoid a crushing defeat. So far it seems to be paying off, seen as none of his Black Crusades inflicted any lasting damage on the Black Legion or the forces of Chaos as whole, while the Black Crusades run by other guys like [[Doombreed]] inflicted way more damage to the Imperium, but ended up taking as much or even more beating in return. To this end Abaddon puts much effort into collecting all sorts of [[Sorcerer\|sorcerers]], mages, prophets, seers and diviners and actually runs the largest the most potent sorcerer cabal outside the [[Sortiarius\|Planet of Sorcerers]] and uses it as his intelligence-gathering agency.		It also seems that Abby is the only person in entire galaxy who figured how to properly use prophecies and future telling powers in military campaign planning. When your average Thousand Son sorcerer or Eldar Farseer searches through the waves of possible timelines, he usually seeks the answer to the question "How would I win?", while Abaddon orders his own diviners to ask "How would I lose?" and then use the intel they get to, well, avoid a crushing defeat. So far it seems to be paying off, seen as none of his Black Crusades inflicted any lasting damage on the Black Legion or the forces of Chaos as whole, while the Black Crusades run by other guys like [[Doombreed]] inflicted way more damage to the Imperium, but ended up taking as much or even more beating in return. To this end Abaddon puts much effort into collecting all sorts of [[Sorcerer\|sorcerers]], mages, prophets, seers and diviners and actually runs the largest the most potent sorcerer cabal outside the [[Sortiarius\|Planet of Sorcerers]] and uses it as his intelligence-gathering agency.

	ADB has also noted that Abaddon is [[That Guy\|not truly loyal]] to anyone other than himself, not even the Chaos Gods; if he ever does get to Terra and conquer the Imperium, he's likely to cut all ties with the Ruinous Powers and declare himself the new Emperor of Mankind. Naturally, the Chaos Gods don't want this to happen, so they make sure he's [[Just as Planned\|''just'']] successful enough to accomplish most of his goals while ensuring that he's still reliant on Chaos to do so. After all, the last thing they want is their favourite champion deciding that he doesn't need to serve Chaos to get what he wants any longer. Given how Abaddon hates that Horus was willing to pay any price to get himself onto the Throne, it's highly likely that Abaddon won't make the same mistake and will just bide his time. It says something that he's avoided daemonhood or any powers that would tie him to any or all of the Chaos Gods. And that's the difference between him, Ahriman, Kharn, Erebus, and the others. Either they'd swear allegiance to one God or to Chaos Undivided for greater power, or they already did and therefore have different priorities.		ADB has also noted that Abaddon is [[That Guy\|not truly loyal]] to anyone other than himself, not even the Chaos Gods; if he ever does get to Terra and conquer the Imperium, he's likely to cut all ties with the Ruinous Powers and declare himself the new Emperor of Mankind. Naturally, the Chaos Gods don't want this to happen, so they make sure he's ''[[Just as Planned\|just]]'' successful enough to accomplish most of his goals while ensuring that he's still reliant on Chaos to do so. After all, the last thing they want is their favourite champion deciding that he doesn't need to serve Chaos to get what he wants any longer. Given how Abaddon hates that Horus was willing to pay any price to get himself onto the Throne, it's highly likely that Abaddon won't make the same mistake and will just bide his time. It says something that he's avoided daemonhood or any powers that would tie him to any or all of the Chaos Gods. And that's the difference between him, Ahriman, Kharn, Erebus, and the others. Either they'd swear allegiance to one God or to Chaos Undivided for greater power, or they already did and therefore have different priorities.

	What's more, Abaddon does actually respect his foes as shown in his duel with Sigismund. Sigismund managed to significantly wound Abaddon before Abaddon killed him. He kept the scar of the wound as a sign of respect to Sigismund and had his body safely returned to Terra. In the same vein, when [[Thalastian Jorus]] managed to pull a fast one on him on Mackan and severely wound him, he ordered his body and those of his Death Company to be [[awesome\|left unspoiled, enthroned upon the remains of those Black Legionnaires they'd slaughtered]].		What's more, Abaddon does actually respect his foes as shown in his duel with Sigismund. Sigismund managed to significantly wound Abaddon before Abaddon killed him. He kept the scar of the wound as a sign of respect to Sigismund and had his body safely returned to Terra. In the same vein, when [[Thalastian Jorus]] managed to pull a fast one on him on Mackan and severely wound him, he ordered his body and those of his Death Company to be [[awesome\|left unspoiled, enthroned upon the remains of those Black Legionnaires they'd slaughtered]].

	It's also worth pointing out that it's not like the other notable Chaos and Xeno leaders are much more successful than Abaddon, if it all. [[Angron]] is famous for two major wars with the Imperium, that he lost, and made no long term gains while losing the force he brought with him (and keep in mind he was the ''only'' Daemon Primarch doing '''anything''' while the rest of his treacherous brothers sat on their hands ~~until [[Guilliman\|Bobby]] woke up~~). [[Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka]] lost the first war he launched against Armageddon, and abandoned the second one after getting bored. Despite all the threat Ghazghkull was supposed to pose, he hadn't actually won a war until he got to Octarius. The list goes on, but due to the nature of the setting it's hard to find any enemy of the Imperium who has actually made long term strategic gains.		It's also worth pointing out that it's not like the other notable Chaos and Xeno leaders are much more successful than Abaddon, if it all. [[Angron]] is famous for two major wars with the Imperium, that he lost, and made no long term gains while losing the force he brought with him (and keep in mind that, until [[Guilliman\|Bobby]] woke up, he was the ''only'' Daemon Primarch doing '''anything''' while the rest of his treacherous brothers sat on their hands). [[Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka]] lost the first war he launched against Armageddon, and abandoned the second one after getting bored. Despite all the threat Ghazghkull was supposed to pose, he hadn't actually won a war until he got to [[Octarius War\|Octarius]] and even ''that'' victory was swiftly undone by the [[Tyranids]]. The list goes on, but due to the nature of the setting it's hard to find any enemy of the Imperium who has actually made long term strategic gains. In this context, Abaddon only looks like a failure because he was the only antagonistic force in 40k doing ''anything'' for over 21 years, or at least the one GW was shining the spotlight on so his screw-ups looked more pronounced.

	So Abaddon is actually just [[Just as planned\|playing the long game.]] Finally, he may even be aware of the fact that the Chaos Gods want to keep him dependent on them, so he could be trying to not actually win but spill enough blood to satiate them and continue this forever, guaranteeing his own existence in the face of the Warp.		So Abaddon is actually just [[Just as planned\|playing the long game.]] Finally, he may even be aware of the fact that the Chaos Gods want to keep him dependent on them, so he could be trying to not actually win but spill enough blood to satiate them and continue this forever, guaranteeing his own existence in the face of the Warp.

1d4chan>Zrayz10: /* V 2.2 Cicatrix Maledictum and Vigilus */

2023-05-01T02:16:26Z

V 2.2 Cicatrix Maledictum and Vigilus

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:16, 1 May 2023
Line 67:		Line 67:
	Now the [[Great Rift]] does not outright destroy the Imperium like the loss of Terra and Mars would, but the difference is akin to that of drowning in shit and merely being neck-deep in it. The "Northern" parts of the Imperium aka [[Age of the Dark Imperium\|"Imperium Nihilus"]] are cut off from Terra and the [[Astronomican]], left at the mercy of Chaos with but two constantly contested corridors of stable space that loyalists can pass through; millions of worlds are lost in the depths of the Cicatrix as it spilled out; and random armies of daemons are invading realspace all over its borders. That being said it's not all (dark) sunshine and (chaos-infested) lollipops for Abby, either - the majority of his forces went all "Fuck yeah we won!" and left his crusade to pillage random undefended Imperial worlds, so Chaos forces are tugged in all directions, and with the collapse of his command structure, he cannot fully capitalize on the Imperium's weakened state.		Now the [[Great Rift]] does not outright destroy the Imperium like the loss of Terra and Mars would, but the difference is akin to that of drowning in shit and merely being neck-deep in it. The "Northern" parts of the Imperium aka [[Age of the Dark Imperium\|"Imperium Nihilus"]] are cut off from Terra and the [[Astronomican]], left at the mercy of Chaos with but two constantly contested corridors of stable space that loyalists can pass through; millions of worlds are lost in the depths of the Cicatrix as it spilled out; and random armies of daemons are invading realspace all over its borders. That being said it's not all (dark) sunshine and (chaos-infested) lollipops for Abby, either - the majority of his forces went all "Fuck yeah we won!" and left his crusade to pillage random undefended Imperial worlds, so Chaos forces are tugged in all directions, and with the collapse of his command structure, he cannot fully capitalize on the Imperium's weakened state.

	Additionally, [[Roboute Guilliman]] came back swinging and more-or-less stabilized the Imperium Nihilus. So while Abaddon did give the Imperium a nasty wound, they still managed to hold on long enough to avoid bleeding to death. Plus now he has to contend with an actual honest-to-Emperor living loyalist [[Primarch]] directing the Imperium, so Abby's conquests are likely to devolve more and more into stalemates at this point. The [[War of Beasts]] is no exception despite things nearly looking like a victory for him until he's thwarted at the last minute. There are some highlights, he handily defeats [[Marneus Calgar]] in single combat in spite of the latter's Primaris enhancements, after getting knocked off his feet by an uppercut from the one of the others gauntlets (after getting his jaw cracked by Calgar's bare fist) and cleaving through Marneus's chest with Drach'Nyen, cleaving one of his hearts in the process and damaging the other enough to nearly kill him outright. Abaddon is prevented from finishing Calgar off as the ''Vengeful Spirit'' was on the brink of being destroyed by a scheme involving an Eldar stealth ship filled with Vortex Missiles. In his haste to retreat he [[derp\|accidentally wipes out a full third of his own fleet, costing him the victory he almost had]], which allows the Imperials to slowly retake the planet. It seems like Abaddon has already begun work on his backup plan so even if Vigilus would not be captured he might still be able to take the Nachmund Gauntlet as reports speak of the dreaded Planet Killer reappearing. In the latest development in Abaddon’s story he apparently teamed up with an unaligned and unusually straightforward Chaos Daemon named [[Vashtorr]] who gave Abaddon enormous super ships called the [[Ark of Omen\|Arks of Omen]] in exchange for Abaddon’s help. See Vashtorr was the guy in charge of the Forge of Souls aka the place where a daemon can become a [[Soul Grinder]], but apparently he was no longer was happy in being just an arms dealer for the Chaos Gods and wanted to become one himself. To do this he needed a certain piece of tech left by the [[Old Ones]] called the “dissonance engine” to serve as a key to reach and open a vault in the [[Webway]] full of powerful artifacts and knowledge behind from the [[War in Heaven]]. Unable to acquire these things on his own Vashtorr decided to forge a deal where he would give the Arks to Abaddon to keep in exchange for Abaddon helping gather up the artifacts. So over the course of a 5 book campaign the pair set to work and in the end actually managed to rebuild the engine…which as it turns out was actually another name for the destroyed [[Dark Angel]] home world of [[Caliban (Warhammer 40,000)\|Caliban]]…needless to say the Dark Angels were pissed upon finding and tried to stop this plan from happening only to fail miserably even with the aid of a returned [[Lion El'Jonson]]. In the end Abaddon and Vashtorr succeeded in rebuilding Caliban into a [[Daemon World]] called Wyrmwood and then used it to open a massive portal which allowed all the chaos aligned folks to escape, and leaving everyone else to pray that SOMEONE will be able to track down and stop Abaddon and Vashtorr before the latter can find and open that damn vault.		Additionally, [[Roboute Guilliman]] came back swinging and more-or-less stabilized the Imperium Nihilus. So while Abaddon did give the Imperium a nasty wound, they still managed to hold on long enough to avoid bleeding to death. Plus now he has to contend with an actual honest-to-Emperor living loyalist [[Primarch]] directing the Imperium, so Abby's conquests are likely to devolve more and more into stalemates at this point. The [[War of Beasts]] is no exception despite things nearly looking like a victory for him until he's thwarted at the last minute. There are some highlights, he handily defeats [[Marneus Calgar]] in single combat in spite of the latter's Primaris enhancements, after getting knocked off his feet by an uppercut from the one of the others gauntlets (after getting his jaw cracked by Calgar's bare fist) and cleaving through Marneus's chest with Drach'Nyen, cleaving one of his hearts in the process and damaging the other enough to nearly kill him outright. Abaddon is prevented from finishing Calgar off as the ''Vengeful Spirit'' was on the brink of being destroyed by a scheme involving an Eldar stealth ship filled with Vortex Missiles. In his haste to retreat he [[derp\|accidentally wipes out a full third of his own fleet, costing him the victory he almost had]], which allows the Imperials to slowly retake the planet. It seems like Abaddon has already begun work on his backup plan so even if Vigilus would not be captured he might still be able to take the Nachmund Gauntlet as reports speak of the dreaded Planet Killer reappearing.

			In the latest development in Abaddon’s story to seize the gauntlet he apparently teamed up with an unaligned and unusually straightforward Chaos Daemon named [[Vashtorr]] who gave Abaddon enormous super ships called the [[Ark of Omen\|Arks of Omen]] in exchange for Abaddon’s help. See Vashtorr was the guy in charge of the Forge of Souls aka the place where a daemon can become a [[Soul Grinder]], but apparently he was no longer was happy in being just an arms dealer for the Chaos Gods and wanted to become one himself. To do this he needed a certain piece of tech left by the [[Old Ones]] called the “dissonance engine” to serve as a key to reach and open a vault in the [[Webway]] full of powerful artifacts and knowledge behind from the [[War in Heaven]]. Unable to acquire these things on his own Vashtorr decided to forge a deal where he would give the Arks to Abaddon to keep and use to seize the Nachmund Gauntlet in exchange for Abaddon helping Vashtorr gather up the artifacts, a deal which Abaddon accepted. So over the course of a 5 book campaign the pair set to work and in the end actually managed to rebuild the engine…which as it turns out was actually just another name for the destroyed [[Dark Angel]] home world of [[Caliban (Warhammer 40,000)\|Caliban]]…needless to say the Dark Angels were pissed upon finding and tried to stop this plan from happening only to fail miserably even with the aid of a returned [[Lion El'Jonson]]. In the end Abaddon and Vashtorr succeeded in rebuilding Caliban into a [[Daemon World]] called Wyrmwood and then used it to open a massive portal which allowed all the chaos aligned folks to escape, and leaving everyone else to pray that SOMEONE will be able to track down and stop Abaddon and Vashtorr before the latter can find and open that damn vault.

	==In Abbadon's Defense==		==In Abbadon's Defense==

1d4chan>Zrayz10: /* V 2.2 Cicatrix Maledictum and Vigilus */ added Arks of Omen info

2023-05-01T02:13:38Z

V 2.2 Cicatrix Maledictum and Vigilus: added Arks of Omen info

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:13, 1 May 2023
Line 67:		Line 67:
	Now the [[Great Rift]] does not outright destroy the Imperium like the loss of Terra and Mars would, but the difference is akin to that of drowning in shit and merely being neck-deep in it. The "Northern" parts of the Imperium aka [[Age of the Dark Imperium\|"Imperium Nihilus"]] are cut off from Terra and the [[Astronomican]], left at the mercy of Chaos with but two constantly contested corridors of stable space that loyalists can pass through; millions of worlds are lost in the depths of the Cicatrix as it spilled out; and random armies of daemons are invading realspace all over its borders. That being said it's not all (dark) sunshine and (chaos-infested) lollipops for Abby, either - the majority of his forces went all "Fuck yeah we won!" and left his crusade to pillage random undefended Imperial worlds, so Chaos forces are tugged in all directions, and with the collapse of his command structure, he cannot fully capitalize on the Imperium's weakened state.		Now the [[Great Rift]] does not outright destroy the Imperium like the loss of Terra and Mars would, but the difference is akin to that of drowning in shit and merely being neck-deep in it. The "Northern" parts of the Imperium aka [[Age of the Dark Imperium\|"Imperium Nihilus"]] are cut off from Terra and the [[Astronomican]], left at the mercy of Chaos with but two constantly contested corridors of stable space that loyalists can pass through; millions of worlds are lost in the depths of the Cicatrix as it spilled out; and random armies of daemons are invading realspace all over its borders. That being said it's not all (dark) sunshine and (chaos-infested) lollipops for Abby, either - the majority of his forces went all "Fuck yeah we won!" and left his crusade to pillage random undefended Imperial worlds, so Chaos forces are tugged in all directions, and with the collapse of his command structure, he cannot fully capitalize on the Imperium's weakened state.

	Additionally, [[Roboute Guilliman]] came back swinging and more-or-less stabilized the Imperium Nihilus. So while Abaddon did give the Imperium a nasty wound, they still managed to hold on long enough to avoid bleeding to death. Plus now he has to contend with an actual honest-to-Emperor living loyalist [[Primarch]] directing the Imperium, so Abby's conquests are likely to devolve more and more into stalemates at this point. The [[War of Beasts]] is no exception despite things nearly looking like a victory for him until he's thwarted at the last minute. There are some highlights, he handily defeats [[Marneus Calgar]] in single combat in spite of the latter's Primaris enhancements, after getting knocked off his feet by an uppercut from the one of the others gauntlets (after getting his jaw cracked by Calgar's bare fist) and cleaving through Marneus's chest with Drach'Nyen, cleaving one of his hearts in the process and damaging the other enough to nearly kill him outright. Abaddon is prevented from finishing Calgar off as the ''Vengeful Spirit'' was on the brink of being destroyed by a scheme involving an Eldar stealth ship filled with Vortex Missiles. In his haste to retreat he [[derp\|accidentally wipes out a full third of his own fleet, costing him the victory he almost had]], which allows the Imperials to slowly retake the planet. It seems like Abaddon has already begun work on his backup plan so even if Vigilus would not be captured he might still be able to take the Nachmund Gauntlet as reports speak of the dreaded Planet Killer reappearing.		Additionally, [[Roboute Guilliman]] came back swinging and more-or-less stabilized the Imperium Nihilus. So while Abaddon did give the Imperium a nasty wound, they still managed to hold on long enough to avoid bleeding to death. Plus now he has to contend with an actual honest-to-Emperor living loyalist [[Primarch]] directing the Imperium, so Abby's conquests are likely to devolve more and more into stalemates at this point. The [[War of Beasts]] is no exception despite things nearly looking like a victory for him until he's thwarted at the last minute. There are some highlights, he handily defeats [[Marneus Calgar]] in single combat in spite of the latter's Primaris enhancements, after getting knocked off his feet by an uppercut from the one of the others gauntlets (after getting his jaw cracked by Calgar's bare fist) and cleaving through Marneus's chest with Drach'Nyen, cleaving one of his hearts in the process and damaging the other enough to nearly kill him outright. Abaddon is prevented from finishing Calgar off as the ''Vengeful Spirit'' was on the brink of being destroyed by a scheme involving an Eldar stealth ship filled with Vortex Missiles. In his haste to retreat he [[derp\|accidentally wipes out a full third of his own fleet, costing him the victory he almost had]], which allows the Imperials to slowly retake the planet. It seems like Abaddon has already begun work on his backup plan so even if Vigilus would not be captured he might still be able to take the Nachmund Gauntlet as reports speak of the dreaded Planet Killer reappearing. In the latest development in Abaddon’s story he apparently teamed up with an unaligned and unusually straightforward Chaos Daemon named [[Vashtorr]] who gave Abaddon enormous super ships called the [[Ark of Omen\|Arks of Omen]] in exchange for Abaddon’s help. See Vashtorr was the guy in charge of the Forge of Souls aka the place where a daemon can become a [[Soul Grinder]], but apparently he was no longer was happy in being just an arms dealer for the Chaos Gods and wanted to become one himself. To do this he needed a certain piece of tech left by the [[Old Ones]] called the “dissonance engine” to serve as a key to reach and open a vault in the [[Webway]] full of powerful artifacts and knowledge behind from the [[War in Heaven]]. Unable to acquire these things on his own Vashtorr decided to forge a deal where he would give the Arks to Abaddon to keep in exchange for Abaddon helping gather up the artifacts. So over the course of a 5 book campaign the pair set to work and in the end actually managed to rebuild the engine…which as it turns out was actually another name for the destroyed [[Dark Angel]] home world of [[Caliban (Warhammer 40,000)\|Caliban]]…needless to say the Dark Angels were pissed upon finding and tried to stop this plan from happening only to fail miserably even with the aid of a returned [[Lion El'Jonson]]. In the end Abaddon and Vashtorr succeeded in rebuilding Caliban into a [[Daemon World]] called Wyrmwood and then used it to open a massive portal which allowed all the chaos aligned folks to escape, and leaving everyone else to pray that SOMEONE will be able to track down and stop Abaddon and Vashtorr before the latter can find and open that damn vault.

	==In Abbadon's Defense==		==In Abbadon's Defense==

1d4chan>StringBean: /* In Abbadon's Defense */

2023-04-30T09:43:06Z

In Abbadon's Defense

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:43, 30 April 2023
Line 80:		Line 80:
	What's more, Abaddon does actually respect his foes as shown in his duel with Sigismund. Sigismund managed to significantly wound Abaddon before Abaddon killed him. He kept the scar of the wound as a sign of respect to Sigismund and had his body safely returned to Terra. In the same vein, when [[Thalastian Jorus]] managed to pull a fast one on him on Mackan and severely wound him, he ordered his body and those of his Death Company to be [[awesome\|left unspoiled, enthroned upon the remains of those Black Legionnaires they'd slaughtered]].		What's more, Abaddon does actually respect his foes as shown in his duel with Sigismund. Sigismund managed to significantly wound Abaddon before Abaddon killed him. He kept the scar of the wound as a sign of respect to Sigismund and had his body safely returned to Terra. In the same vein, when [[Thalastian Jorus]] managed to pull a fast one on him on Mackan and severely wound him, he ordered his body and those of his Death Company to be [[awesome\|left unspoiled, enthroned upon the remains of those Black Legionnaires they'd slaughtered]].

	It's also worth pointing out that it's not like the other notable Chaos and Xeno leaders are much more successful than Abaddon, if it all. Angron is famous for two major wars with the Imperium, that he lost, and made no long term gains while losing the force he brought with him. [[Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka]] lost the first war he launched against Armageddon, and abandoned the second one after getting bored. Despite all the threat Ghazghkull was supposed to pose, he hadn't actually won a war until he got to Octarius. The list goes on, but due to the nature of the setting it's hard to find any enemy of the Imperium who has actually made long term strategic gains.		It's also worth pointing out that it's not like the other notable Chaos and Xeno leaders are much more successful than Abaddon, if it all. [[Angron]] is famous for two major wars with the Imperium, that he lost, and made no long term gains while losing the force he brought with him (and keep in mind he was the ''only'' Daemon Primarch doing '''anything''' while the rest of his treacherous brothers sat on their hands until [[Guilliman\|Bobby]] woke up). [[Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka]] lost the first war he launched against Armageddon, and abandoned the second one after getting bored. Despite all the threat Ghazghkull was supposed to pose, he hadn't actually won a war until he got to Octarius. The list goes on, but due to the nature of the setting it's hard to find any enemy of the Imperium who has actually made long term strategic gains.

	So Abaddon is actually just [[Just as planned\|playing the long game.]] Finally, he may even be aware of the fact that the Chaos Gods want to keep him dependent on them, so he could be trying to not actually win but spill enough blood to satiate them and continue this forever, guaranteeing his own existence in the face of the Warp.		So Abaddon is actually just [[Just as planned\|playing the long game.]] Finally, he may even be aware of the fact that the Chaos Gods want to keep him dependent on them, so he could be trying to not actually win but spill enough blood to satiate them and continue this forever, guaranteeing his own existence in the face of the Warp.

2A02:1810:4E2C:A900:3D6C:5C98:46F7:4F7D at 22:00, 9 March 2023

2023-03-09T22:00:26Z

Show changes

1d4chan>Newerfag: /* Overview */

2023-01-16T14:24:39Z

Overview

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:24, 16 January 2023
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	When Horus was wounded on Davin, Abaddon agreed to First Chaplain [[Erebus]]'s idea that they heal Horus at the Serpent Lodge. When Horus came back corrupted by Chaos, Abaddon didn't notice a thing and was corrupted along with his Primarch, gladly following him into the [[Horus Heresy]]; in fact he was the first Son of Horus to stand by this decision (well if anything, the change was more Horus moving closer to Abaddon's views than the other way round, particularly when it came to elevating the SMs above ordinary people). From there, Abaddon was at the forefront of many of the major events of the Horus Heresy, from the [[Drop Site Massacre\|Isstvan massacres]] to the [[Siege of Terra]].		When Horus was wounded on Davin, Abaddon agreed to First Chaplain [[Erebus]]'s idea that they heal Horus at the Serpent Lodge. When Horus came back corrupted by Chaos, Abaddon didn't notice a thing and was corrupted along with his Primarch, gladly following him into the [[Horus Heresy]]; in fact he was the first Son of Horus to stand by this decision (well if anything, the change was more Horus moving closer to Abaddon's views than the other way round, particularly when it came to elevating the SMs above ordinary people). From there, Abaddon was at the forefront of many of the major events of the Horus Heresy, from the [[Drop Site Massacre\|Isstvan massacres]] to the [[Siege of Terra]].

	In the Solar War, Abaddon led a fleet against Luna itself, killing Jubal Khan en route (though Jubal nearly killed him posthumously with a Caestus Assault Ram). He and his warriors stormed the Selenar fortresses that the XVIth Legion earned their old name conquering, and secured them for the Warmaster. Though arguably his biggest struggle was resisting the temptation to dismember Zardu Layak. It was during the early stages of the Siege of Terra that Abaddon began losing faith in Horus, seeing his increasing disinterest in the materium and chaos fugues as a sign of weakness. For all respects and purposes, he took over the role of his Legion's master as it became obvious that Horus was no longer able to form a coherent plan of attack. Taking matters into his own claws, Abaddon attempted to convince Perturabo to accept an accelerated plan of attack that would make victory come faster, albeit without Horus's direct knowledge. It involved using the entirety of the Emperor's Children legion as a distraction whilst several elite Sons of Horus company's launched an underground assault on an apparently unprotected section of Saturnine Wall. Rogal Dorn however, had been canny enough to spot the gap and set a trap for whoever came knocking. Despite taking total casualties (and his plans for a quick assault ruined by multiple parties), Abaddon and his squads managed to kill almost everyone at the ambush sites, fighting balls out and going through every stage of grief back to front before being glad that this fight would end him. Just as he was about to be killed, he was teleported away by his transport, begging to be sent back to die with his brothers. According to Zardu Layak, he had already been chosen as Horus' successor as Warmaster by the Chaos Gods at this point and they had no intention of letting him die so soon.		In the Solar War, Abaddon led a fleet against Luna itself, killing Jubal Khan en route (though Jubal nearly killed him posthumously with a Caestus Assault Ram). He and his warriors stormed the Selenar fortresses that the XVIth Legion earned their old name conquering, and secured them for the Warmaster. Though arguably his biggest struggle was resisting the temptation to dismember [[Zardu Layak]]. It was during the early stages of the Siege of Terra that Abaddon began losing faith in Horus, seeing his increasing disinterest in the materium and chaos fugues as a sign of weakness. For all respects and purposes, he took over the role of his Legion's master as it became obvious that Horus was no longer able to form a coherent plan of attack. Taking matters into his own claws, Abaddon attempted to convince Perturabo to accept an accelerated plan of attack that would make victory come faster, albeit without Horus's direct knowledge. It involved using the entirety of the Emperor's Children legion as a distraction whilst several elite Sons of Horus company's launched an underground assault on an apparently unprotected section of Saturnine Wall. Rogal Dorn however, had been canny enough to spot the gap and set a trap for whoever came knocking. Despite taking total casualties (and his plans for a quick assault ruined by multiple parties), Abaddon and his squads managed to kill almost everyone at the ambush sites, fighting balls out and going through every stage of grief back to front before being glad that this fight would end him. Just as he was about to be killed, he was teleported away by his transport, begging to be sent back to die with his brothers. According to Zardu Layak, he had already been chosen as Horus' successor as Warmaster by the Chaos Gods at this point and they had no intention of letting him die so soon.

	[[Cowardice\|He, however, wasn't with Horus during his duel with the Emperor, as he was busy keeping the rest of the Emperor's retinue under control while the two had their fight to the death.]] When Horus was killed by the [[God-Emperor of Mankind\|Emperor]], Abaddon completely lost his shit and led a frenzied counter-attack against the loyalist remnants on the [[Vengeful Spirit\|''Vengeful Spirit'']] to recover Horus' body, before promptly running away (knowing that the Space Wolves, Ultramarines and Dark Angels, probably with elements of the Shattered Legions and every other army that remained Loyal, were hurling burning promethium towards the Traitors).		[[Cowardice\|He, however, wasn't with Horus during his duel with the Emperor, as he was busy keeping the rest of the Emperor's retinue under control while the two had their fight to the death.]] When Horus was killed by the [[God-Emperor of Mankind\|Emperor]], Abaddon completely lost his shit and led a frenzied counter-attack against the loyalist remnants on the [[Vengeful Spirit\|''Vengeful Spirit'']] to recover Horus' body, before promptly running away (knowing that the Space Wolves, Ultramarines and Dark Angels, probably with elements of the Shattered Legions and every other army that remained Loyal, were hurling burning promethium towards the Traitors).

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:53, 12 May 2023
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	A more generous way of looking at it is that Abaddon is a strong leader, albeit one with flaws, and starting from a trickier point than Horus. In the Heresy, he was in charge of speartips (an elite assault force typically made of Terminators), and while he certainly advised Horus on larger scale wars, he typically left logistics to other members of the Mournival, and largely to Horus himself. Thus, while he is one of the best warriors of the Chaos Space Marines, and perhaps the most charismatic (we're given fluff about other Chaos Lords just going to see what he's like and end up spontaneously signing up to the Black Legion), he is [[Derp\|not suited]] to the intricacies of [[Tzeentch\|planning]] a large scale crusade. Horus himself failed to take over the Imperium, and he was said to be the greatest of the Primarchs; certainly the best warlord among them. He commanded the obedience of the Traitor Legions, whereas Abaddon must prove his authority by force <strike>of arms</strike> again and again. This is also backed by his own rules, he's a close combat monster but barely buffs his army (only his warlord trait really). At the same time, while the Imperium struggled to get their heads around the concept of Legions rebelling, allowing Horus to spring all sorts of nasty surprises on them, plus all the Chaotic tricks up his sleeve, in 40K they know Abaddon's overall goals and have taken a shit-ton of precautions against it.		A more generous way of looking at it is that Abaddon is a strong leader, albeit one with flaws, and starting from a trickier point than Horus. In the Heresy, he was in charge of speartips (an elite assault force typically made of Terminators), and while he certainly advised Horus on larger scale wars, he typically left logistics to other members of the Mournival, and largely to Horus himself. Thus, while he is one of the best warriors of the Chaos Space Marines, and perhaps the most charismatic (we're given fluff about other Chaos Lords just going to see what he's like and end up spontaneously signing up to the Black Legion), he is [[Derp\|not suited]] to the intricacies of [[Tzeentch\|planning]] a large scale crusade. Horus himself failed to take over the Imperium, and he was said to be the greatest of the Primarchs; certainly the best warlord among them. He commanded the obedience of the Traitor Legions, whereas Abaddon must prove his authority by force <strike>of arms</strike> again and again. This is also backed by his own rules, he's a close combat monster but barely buffs his army (only his warlord trait really). At the same time, while the Imperium struggled to get their heads around the concept of Legions rebelling, allowing Horus to spring all sorts of nasty surprises on them, plus all the Chaotic tricks up his sleeve, in 40K they know Abaddon's overall goals and have taken a shit-ton of precautions against it.

	And let's not forget that forces under Abaddon's command aren't the disciplined legions of old - with the exception of the Black Legion, his armies are full of batshit insane lunatics who would happily [[Death Guard\|poison]], [[World Eaters\|murder]], [[Sons of Malice\|eat]] and [[Emperor's Children\|rape]] each other (In no particular order) at a slightest provocation and all believe that leadership belongs to whoever can take it from the guy currently in charge, and as so detailed strategic planning for these madmen have as much sense as a planning for an Ork WAAAGH! Think about it; do you have any idea how hard it would be to command several hundred thousand Marines -not to mention several million or even billion [[Lost and the Damned\|renegades]] and [[Cultist-Chan\|cultists]]- with their own agendas, dogmas, beliefs, and levels of discipline to work together in unison, let alone potentially trillions or more other mortal assets? Everyone in your army, especially those of rival gods, are gunning after each other's heads and probably even your own. Also, everyone seems to forget that with such a large army there is a practical bureaucracy to things, where superiors have a whole slew of underlings and those underlings might even have their own mobs of cackling maniacs to look after, and in the heat of battle shit gets hairy when a leader gets whacked. And there are the Chaos Gods themselves; [[Slaanesh\|dicking]] over their rivals and their own forces at random times and giving their followers random "blessings", which may or may not be just [[Tzeentch\|mutating horribly,]] [[Khorne\|the sudden urge to go nuts and collect skulls,]] [[Nurgle\|become a walking corpse]], [[Slaanesh\|grow a dick and tits]], or becoming a Chaos Spa... a '''[[Chaos Spawn\|Thing]].'''		And let's not forget that forces under Abaddon's command aren't the disciplined legions of old - with the exception of the Black Legion, his armies are full of batshit insane lunatics who would happily [[Death Guard\|poison]], [[World Eaters\|murder]], [[Sons of Malice\|eat]], [[Thousand Sons\|out-scheme]], and [[Emperor's Children\|rape]] each other (In no particular order) at a slightest provocation and all believe that leadership belongs to whoever can take it from the guy currently in charge, and as so detailed strategic planning for these madmen have as much sense as a planning for an Ork WAAAGH! Think about it; do you have any idea how hard it would be to command several hundred thousand Marines -not to mention several million or even billion [[Lost and the Damned\|renegades]] and [[Cultist-Chan\|cultists]]- with their own agendas, dogmas, beliefs, and levels of discipline to work together in unison, let alone potentially trillions or more other mortal assets? Everyone in your army, especially those of rival gods, are gunning after each other's heads and probably even your own. Also, everyone seems to forget that with such a large army there is a practical bureaucracy to things, where superiors have a whole slew of underlings and those underlings might even have their own mobs of cackling maniacs to look after, and in the heat of battle shit gets hairy when a leader gets whacked. And there are the Chaos Gods themselves; [[Slaanesh\|dicking]] over their rivals and their own forces at random times and giving their followers random "blessings", which may or may not be just [[Tzeentch\|mutating horribly]], [[Khorne\|the sudden urge to go nuts and collect skulls]], [[Nurgle\|become a walking corpse]], [[Slaanesh\|grow a dick and tits]], or becoming a Chaos Spa... a '''[[Chaos Spawn\|Thing]].'''

	It also seems that Abby is the only person in entire galaxy who figured how to properly use prophecies and future telling powers in military campaign planning. When your average Thousand Son sorcerer or Eldar Farseer searches through the waves of possible timelines, he usually seeks the answer to the question "How would I win?", while Abaddon orders his own diviners to ask "How would I lose?" and then use the intel they get to, well, avoid a crushing defeat. So far it seems to be paying off, seen as none of his Black Crusades inflicted any lasting damage on the Black Legion or the forces of Chaos as whole, while the Black Crusades run by other guys like [[Doombreed]] inflicted way more damage to the Imperium, but ended up taking as much or even more beating in return. To this end Abaddon puts much effort into collecting all sorts of [[Sorcerer\|sorcerers]], mages, prophets, seers and diviners and actually runs the largest the most potent sorcerer cabal outside the [[Sortiarius\|Planet of Sorcerers]] and uses it as his intelligence-gathering agency.		It also seems that Abby is the only person in entire galaxy who figured how to properly use prophecies and future telling powers in military campaign planning. When your average Thousand Son sorcerer or Eldar Farseer searches through the waves of possible timelines, he usually seeks the answer to the question "How would I win?", while Abaddon orders his own diviners to ask "How would I lose?" and then use the intel they get to, well, avoid a crushing defeat. So far it seems to be paying off, seen as none of his Black Crusades inflicted any lasting damage on the Black Legion or the forces of Chaos as whole, while the Black Crusades run by other guys like [[Doombreed]] inflicted way more damage to the Imperium, but ended up taking as much or even more beating in return. To this end Abaddon puts much effort into collecting all sorts of [[Sorcerer\|sorcerers]], mages, prophets, seers and diviners and actually runs the largest the most potent sorcerer cabal outside the [[Sortiarius\|Planet of Sorcerers]] and uses it as his intelligence-gathering agency.

	ADB has also noted that Abaddon is [[That Guy\|not truly loyal]] to anyone other than himself, not even the Chaos Gods; if he ever does get to Terra and conquer the Imperium, he's likely to cut all ties with the Ruinous Powers and declare himself the new Emperor of Mankind. Naturally, the Chaos Gods don't want this to happen, so they make sure he's [[Just as Planned\|''just'']] successful enough to accomplish most of his goals while ensuring that he's still reliant on Chaos to do so. After all, the last thing they want is their favourite champion deciding that he doesn't need to serve Chaos to get what he wants any longer. Given how Abaddon hates that Horus was willing to pay any price to get himself onto the Throne, it's highly likely that Abaddon won't make the same mistake and will just bide his time. It says something that he's avoided daemonhood or any powers that would tie him to any or all of the Chaos Gods. And that's the difference between him, Ahriman, Kharn, Erebus, and the others. Either they'd swear allegiance to one God or to Chaos Undivided for greater power, or they already did and therefore have different priorities.		ADB has also noted that Abaddon is [[That Guy\|not truly loyal]] to anyone other than himself, not even the Chaos Gods; if he ever does get to Terra and conquer the Imperium, he's likely to cut all ties with the Ruinous Powers and declare himself the new Emperor of Mankind. Naturally, the Chaos Gods don't want this to happen, so they make sure he's ''[[Just as Planned\|just]]'' successful enough to accomplish most of his goals while ensuring that he's still reliant on Chaos to do so. After all, the last thing they want is their favourite champion deciding that he doesn't need to serve Chaos to get what he wants any longer. Given how Abaddon hates that Horus was willing to pay any price to get himself onto the Throne, it's highly likely that Abaddon won't make the same mistake and will just bide his time. It says something that he's avoided daemonhood or any powers that would tie him to any or all of the Chaos Gods. And that's the difference between him, Ahriman, Kharn, Erebus, and the others. Either they'd swear allegiance to one God or to Chaos Undivided for greater power, or they already did and therefore have different priorities.

	What's more, Abaddon does actually respect his foes as shown in his duel with Sigismund. Sigismund managed to significantly wound Abaddon before Abaddon killed him. He kept the scar of the wound as a sign of respect to Sigismund and had his body safely returned to Terra. In the same vein, when [[Thalastian Jorus]] managed to pull a fast one on him on Mackan and severely wound him, he ordered his body and those of his Death Company to be [[awesome\|left unspoiled, enthroned upon the remains of those Black Legionnaires they'd slaughtered]].		What's more, Abaddon does actually respect his foes as shown in his duel with Sigismund. Sigismund managed to significantly wound Abaddon before Abaddon killed him. He kept the scar of the wound as a sign of respect to Sigismund and had his body safely returned to Terra. In the same vein, when [[Thalastian Jorus]] managed to pull a fast one on him on Mackan and severely wound him, he ordered his body and those of his Death Company to be [[awesome\|left unspoiled, enthroned upon the remains of those Black Legionnaires they'd slaughtered]].

	It's also worth pointing out that it's not like the other notable Chaos and Xeno leaders are much more successful than Abaddon, if it all. [[Angron]] is famous for two major wars with the Imperium, that he lost, and made no long term gains while losing the force he brought with him (and keep in mind he was the ''only'' Daemon Primarch doing '''anything''' while the rest of his treacherous brothers sat on their hands ~~until [[Guilliman\|Bobby]] woke up~~). [[Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka]] lost the first war he launched against Armageddon, and abandoned the second one after getting bored. Despite all the threat Ghazghkull was supposed to pose, he hadn't actually won a war until he got to Octarius. The list goes on, but due to the nature of the setting it's hard to find any enemy of the Imperium who has actually made long term strategic gains.		It's also worth pointing out that it's not like the other notable Chaos and Xeno leaders are much more successful than Abaddon, if it all. [[Angron]] is famous for two major wars with the Imperium, that he lost, and made no long term gains while losing the force he brought with him (and keep in mind that, until [[Guilliman\|Bobby]] woke up, he was the ''only'' Daemon Primarch doing '''anything''' while the rest of his treacherous brothers sat on their hands). [[Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka]] lost the first war he launched against Armageddon, and abandoned the second one after getting bored. Despite all the threat Ghazghkull was supposed to pose, he hadn't actually won a war until he got to [[Octarius War\|Octarius]] and even ''that'' victory was swiftly undone by the [[Tyranids]]. The list goes on, but due to the nature of the setting it's hard to find any enemy of the Imperium who has actually made long term strategic gains. In this context, Abaddon only looks like a failure because he was the only antagonistic force in 40k doing ''anything'' for over 21 years, or at least the one GW was shining the spotlight on so his screw-ups looked more pronounced.

	So Abaddon is actually just [[Just as planned\|playing the long game.]] Finally, he may even be aware of the fact that the Chaos Gods want to keep him dependent on them, so he could be trying to not actually win but spill enough blood to satiate them and continue this forever, guaranteeing his own existence in the face of the Warp.		So Abaddon is actually just [[Just as planned\|playing the long game.]] Finally, he may even be aware of the fact that the Chaos Gods want to keep him dependent on them, so he could be trying to not actually win but spill enough blood to satiate them and continue this forever, guaranteeing his own existence in the face of the Warp.