Advancing the Storyline - Revision history

imported>Administrator: 228 revisions imported

2023-06-17T16:35:02Z

228 revisions imported

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2A02:1810:4E2C:A900:6165:300C:A644:DE8E at 20:17, 9 June 2023

2023-06-09T20:17:01Z

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1d4chan>GloriousGidofter: /* Was it worth it? */

2022-06-15T04:01:54Z

Was it worth it?

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:01, 15 June 2022
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	Not to mention the fact that the more "noble" image of the Imperium, combined with a seemingly benevolent dictator taking power being the reason for its survival, leans into narratives that would make the average /pol/tard cream themselves when you consider the fact the Imperium is still the xenophobic, genocidal, totalitarian nightmare it always has been, just portrayed in a more sympathetic light.		Not to mention the fact that the more "noble" image of the Imperium, combined with a seemingly benevolent dictator taking power being the reason for its survival, leans into narratives that would make the average /pol/tard cream themselves when you consider the fact the Imperium is still the xenophobic, genocidal, totalitarian nightmare it always has been, just portrayed in a more sympathetic light.

	There is potentially a more interesting take on the return of [[Roboute Guilliman\|Grandpapa Smurf]] and the formation of the [[Great Rift\|Cicatrix Maledictum]] in that it allows 40k to juxtapose its darker elements better. When everything is shit, it gets hard to distinguish which shit is shitter because it all blends together, but by introducing sprinkles of hope, it allows you to frame the darker elements into a better light. Since Guilliman returned, the [[Great Rift\|galaxy split in two]], [[Octarius War\|the war on Octarius saw Hivefleet Leviathan growing in size substantially~~]], [[Octarius War\|the war on Octarius saw Hivefleet Leviathan growing in size substantially]], the [[Great Rift\|galaxy split in two~~]], Daemon Primarchs have started returned en masse, multiple [[Genestealer Cult]]s have been found on [[Terra]], the Arch Magos of [[Forgeworld]] Metalica was killed when [[Typhus]] sieged the planet, and the Necrons have set up the Pariah Nexus. For every reform Guilliman can wrangle from the High Lords, Adeptus Miniostrum, or various hierarchies to make the Imperium run more efficiently, there spring up 20 more crisises that must be addressed. There is a ray of hope in the darkness, which may seem lighter than the total darkness of before, but know you can tell just how much darkness there is left to resolve.		There is potentially a more interesting take on the return of [[Roboute Guilliman\|Grandpapa Smurf]] and the formation of the [[Great Rift\|Cicatrix Maledictum]] in that it allows 40k to juxtapose its darker elements better. When everything is shit, it gets hard to distinguish which shit is shitter because it all blends together, but by introducing sprinkles of hope, it allows you to frame the darker elements into a better light. Since Guilliman returned, the [[Great Rift\|galaxy split in two]], [[Octarius War\|the war on Octarius saw Hivefleet Leviathan growing in size substantially]], Daemon Primarchs have started returned en masse, multiple [[Genestealer Cult]]s have been found on [[Terra]], the Arch Magos of [[Forgeworld]] Metalica was killed when [[Typhus]] sieged the planet, and the Necrons have set up the Pariah Nexus. For every reform Guilliman can wrangle from the High Lords, Adeptus Miniostrum, or various hierarchies to make the Imperium run more efficiently, there spring up 20 more crisises that must be addressed. There is a ray of hope in the darkness, which may seem lighter than the total darkness of before, but know you can tell just how much darkness there is left to resolve.

	Or maybe we're better off with what we have right now. It's something worth thinking about. Regardless, the 40k fandom would've accepted just about anything when it comes to new narrative developments - they were starved of it for decades, after all.		Or maybe we're better off with what we have right now. It's something worth thinking about. Regardless, the 40k fandom would've accepted just about anything when it comes to new narrative developments - they were starved of it for decades, after all.

1d4chan>AnonymousAnon: Added an alternative prospective

2022-06-15T03:41:00Z

Added an alternative prospective

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:41, 15 June 2022
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	Not to mention the fact that the more "noble" image of the Imperium, combined with a seemingly benevolent dictator taking power being the reason for its survival, leans into narratives that would make the average /pol/tard cream themselves when you consider the fact the Imperium is still the xenophobic, genocidal, totalitarian nightmare it always has been, just portrayed in a more sympathetic light.		Not to mention the fact that the more "noble" image of the Imperium, combined with a seemingly benevolent dictator taking power being the reason for its survival, leans into narratives that would make the average /pol/tard cream themselves when you consider the fact the Imperium is still the xenophobic, genocidal, totalitarian nightmare it always has been, just portrayed in a more sympathetic light.

			There is potentially a more interesting take on the return of [[Roboute Guilliman\|Grandpapa Smurf]] and the formation of the [[Great Rift\|Cicatrix Maledictum]] in that it allows 40k to juxtapose its darker elements better. When everything is shit, it gets hard to distinguish which shit is shitter because it all blends together, but by introducing sprinkles of hope, it allows you to frame the darker elements into a better light. Since Guilliman returned, the [[Great Rift\|galaxy split in two]], [[Octarius War\|the war on Octarius saw Hivefleet Leviathan growing in size substantially]], [[Octarius War\|the war on Octarius saw Hivefleet Leviathan growing in size substantially]], the [[Great Rift\|galaxy split in two]], Daemon Primarchs have started returned en masse, multiple [[Genestealer Cult]]s have been found on [[Terra]], the Arch Magos of [[Forgeworld]] Metalica was killed when [[Typhus]] sieged the planet, and the Necrons have set up the Pariah Nexus. For every reform Guilliman can wrangle from the High Lords, Adeptus Miniostrum, or various hierarchies to make the Imperium run more efficiently, there spring up 20 more crisises that must be addressed. There is a ray of hope in the darkness, which may seem lighter than the total darkness of before, but know you can tell just how much darkness there is left to resolve.

	Or maybe we're better off with what we have right now. It's something worth thinking about. Regardless, the 40k fandom would've accepted just about anything when it comes to new narrative developments - they were starved of it for decades, after all.		Or maybe we're better off with what we have right now. It's something worth thinking about. Regardless, the 40k fandom would've accepted just about anything when it comes to new narrative developments - they were starved of it for decades, after all.

109.175.166.58: /* Was it worth it? */

2022-06-14T20:11:08Z

Was it worth it?

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:11, 14 June 2022
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	==Was it worth it?==		==Was it worth it?==
	In reviving Guilliman and presenting the Imperium as outright angelic in newer pieces of artwork such as the 9th edition core book cover, the setting of 40k has shifted away from the themes of "an empire in decline" to something moreso resembling "heroic fantasy in space!" The Imperium is technically still declining, sure, but GW's way of showing off the progress of that decline is quite literally half-assed: Only half the galaxy is actually experiencing what it's like for the Imperium to finally begin to balkanize and crumble, while the other is seemingly experiencing a sort of Renaissance. To top it off, the Imperium is beginning to be portrayed less as "the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable" and moreso as "noble defenders of humanity", seemingly because it's the safe option. Compound this with the fact that the Primaris Marines bring a host of new toys with them that fly in the face of "forget the power of science and technology, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned" and you have a recipe for an Imperium that isn't in decline, but in an upswing that allows GW's posterboys to come across as noble, child-friendly space paladins instead of monstrous post-human killers who doomed humanity to a slow, painful death spanning several millennia through the Horus Heresy.		In reviving Guilliman and presenting the Imperium as outright angelic in newer pieces of artwork such as the 9th edition core book cover, the setting of 40k has shifted away from the themes of "an empire in decline" to something moreso resembling "heroic fantasy in space!" The Imperium is technically still declining, sure, but GW's way of showing off the progress of that decline is quite literally half-assed: Only half the galaxy is actually experiencing what it's like for the Imperium to finally begin to balkanize and crumble, while the other is seemingly experiencing a sort of Renaissance. To top it off, the Imperium is beginning to be portrayed less as "the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable" and moreso as "noble defenders of humanity", seemingly because it's the safe option. Compound this with the fact that the Primaris Marines bring a host of new toys with them that fly in the face of "forget the power of science and technology, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned" and you have a recipe for an Imperium that isn't in decline, but in an upswing that allows GW's posterboys to come across as noble, child-friendly space paladins instead of monstrous post-human killers who doomed humanity to a slow, painful death spanning several millennia through the Horus Heresy (it is also worth noting that this has been a massive boon to personal narratives, because the grimdark cruelty is still there, and the clash between it and the more noble, progressive and hopeful arrivals is fertile ground for stories- Roboute's reaction to the Imperium particularly springs to mind).

	Would it have been better if Guilliman hadn't returned, and the Imperium had truly begun to balkanize? To reinforce the theme of decline and give players more narrative justification for the Imperium mirror matches that so often appear on the table? Sure, it's not going to please Timmy the Imperium fanboy once he realizes that the setting was all about his faction's slow death since the days of Rogue Trader, but it could be more narratively satisfying and cohesive to double down on what had already been established instead of going for something altogether more, well, marketable. Hell, there's still ways to justify new models, too - there's a million ways to introduce the new Primaris range into the setting, be it through marines beginning to manufacture new gear based on designs the Mechanicus hoarded for millennia or just plain retconning.		Would it have been better if Guilliman hadn't returned, and the Imperium had truly begun to balkanize? To reinforce the theme of decline and give players more narrative justification for the Imperium mirror matches that so often appear on the table? Sure, it's not going to please Timmy the Imperium fanboy once he realizes that the setting was all about his faction's slow death since the days of Rogue Trader, but it could be more narratively satisfying and cohesive to double down on what had already been established instead of going for something altogether more, well, marketable. Hell, there's still ways to justify new models, too - there's a million ways to introduce the new Primaris range into the setting, be it through marines beginning to manufacture new gear based on designs the Mechanicus hoarded for millennia or just plain retconning.

1d4chan>SpectralTime: /* The End Times and Age of Sigmar: The Ultimate Arguments against Advancing the Storyline */

2021-07-16T23:55:10Z

The End Times and Age of Sigmar: The Ultimate Arguments against Advancing the Storyline

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:55, 16 July 2021
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	===[[The End Times]] and [[Age of Sigmar]]: The Ultimate Arguments against Advancing the Storyline===		===[[The End Times]] and [[Age of Sigmar]]: The Ultimate Arguments against Advancing the Storyline===
	In late 2014, GW finally decided to advance the storyline just as the players wished. The ~~general~~ consensus of this was that it was pretty cool. The fools...		In late 2014, GW finally decided to advance the storyline just as the players wished. The original consensus of this was that it was pretty cool. The fools...

	The Nagash book introduced these major changes by bringing back [[Nagash]] as a superpower in his own right. Heroes were killed and Chaos was for once not the big title threat, except to the Empire, since Nagash was getting ready to kick them out and take the world for himself. Many non-playable human nations were decimated and Nagash led all the Vampire Counts to Nehekhara. After a series of lengthy battles he overthrew Settra, forced most of the Tomb Kings to serve him and effectively destroyed Nehekhara's cities so it ceased to exist as a nation. In the epilogue, Settra got offered a Faustian bargain by the Chaos Gods that could turn the tables on Nagash.		The Nagash book introduced these major changes by bringing back [[Nagash]] as a superpower in his own right. Heroes were killed and Chaos was for once not the big title threat, except to the Empire, since Nagash was getting ready to kick them out and take the world for himself. Many non-playable human nations were decimated and Nagash led all the Vampire Counts to Nehekhara. After a series of lengthy battles he overthrew Settra, forced most of the Tomb Kings to serve him and effectively destroyed Nehekhara's cities so it ceased to exist as a nation. In the epilogue, Settra got offered a Faustian bargain by the Chaos Gods that could turn the tables on Nagash.

1d4chan>SpectralTime: /* See Also */

2021-07-16T23:46:10Z

1d4chan>StringBean: Does this quote work?

2021-02-15T09:05:25Z

Does this quote work?

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:05, 15 February 2021
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			{{topquote\|You think you've caught me, huh? [[Adeptus_Custodes#Non-canon\|Vile cat thing!]] You know what's MORE ANNOYING?! [[The_End_Times\|THE END TIMES]]. You ever wonder what happens if you peer beyond [[Warp\|the veil]], planet-spawn?! [[Grimdark\|Galaxy-rending terror and destruction]]! I won't have it! Our galaxy is in [[Nurgle\|perfect equilibrium]], thanks to me! [[Adeptus Mechanicus\|No unhinged researches]], [[Tzeentch\|no extraneous discoveries]], and no End Times! Just enough war to keep [[Necrons\|[my empire]]] rolling, and to keep [[Imperium\|you]] [[Eldar\|flesh-bags]] in stock! There is no narrative to drive us to the brink, just sweet, beautiful, setting!\|[[The Deceiver\|The Trustworthy One]], [[TTS\|trying to justify]] why he's willing to kneecap everyone's [[Stellaris\|Space Empires]].}}

	'''Advancing the Storyline''' is what a great number of [[neckbeards]] believe that [[Games Workshop]] <s>needs</s> needed to do with [[Warhammer 40,000]]. On [[/tg/]], [[Warseer]], [[Bolter and Chainsword]], and [[Dakka Dakka]], people complain and grumble about how <s>the storyline never moves beyond the year 999.M41, with [[Abaddon the Despoiler]]'s 13th [[Black Crusade]] on the very brink of taking [[Cadia]], ''for real this time''</s> (he actually did in The Gathering Storm, released in 2017 and the setting has now reached 000.M42. Unfortunately the name "Warhammer 41,000" just doesn't have the same ring to it), the [[Tyranid]] [[Hive Fleet]]s closing in on [[Terra]], the [[Astronomican]] flickering and fading, and the [[Golden Throne]] being one [[Adeptus Custodes]]' sneeze away from shutting down permanently.		'''Advancing the Storyline''' is what a great number of [[neckbeards]] believe that [[Games Workshop]] <s>needs</s> needed to do with [[Warhammer 40,000]]. On [[/tg/]], [[Warseer]], [[Bolter and Chainsword]], and [[Dakka Dakka]], people complain and grumble about how <s>the storyline never moves beyond the year 999.M41, with [[Abaddon the Despoiler]]'s 13th [[Black Crusade]] on the very brink of taking [[Cadia]], ''for real this time''</s> (he actually did in The Gathering Storm, released in 2017 and the setting has now reached 000.M42. Unfortunately the name "Warhammer 41,000" just doesn't have the same ring to it), the [[Tyranid]] [[Hive Fleet]]s closing in on [[Terra]], the [[Astronomican]] flickering and fading, and the [[Golden Throne]] being one [[Adeptus Custodes]]' sneeze away from shutting down permanently.

193.158.0.206: /* Fundamental Misunderstandings */

2021-02-15T08:43:38Z

Fundamental Misunderstandings

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:43, 15 February 2021
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	==Fundamental Misunderstandings==		==Fundamental Misunderstandings==
	The problem in 40k is basically the date. That's it. The fluff writers can really ~~can~~ just play grab ass going back and forth over and over for another ten thousand years with no real setting defining changes easily enough. After all they've already done that once - The whole timeline from the heresy to today has resulted in basically no major changes but has still felt interesting. The status quo doesn't need to change, but there really does need to be some space for new fluff going forward so it's not just being stuffed in around existing events. We already have canon conflicts, and it'll only get worse to the point where everyone in the fluff is established as being at one specific place in 999.M41 and that's it. No more new fluff. You can leave out the major events, just takes us some number of years forward so things are actually interesting again. Or, hell, go BACK. There's absolutely nothing wrong with filling in TEN THOUSAND YEARS of time over a galaxy of space to make an interesting story!		The problem in 40k is basically the date. That's it. The fluff writers can really just play grab ass going back and forth over and over for another ten thousand years, with no real setting defining changes easily enough. After all, they've already done that once - The whole timeline from the heresy to today, has resulted in basically no major changes but has still felt interesting. The status quo doesn't need to change, but there really does need to be some space for new fluff going forward, so it's not just being stuffed in around existing events. We already have canon conflicts and it'll only get worse to the point, where everyone in the fluff is established as being at one specific place in 999.M41 and that's it. No more new fluff. You can leave out the major events, just takes us some number of years forward so things are actually interesting again. Or, hell, go BACK. There's absolutely nothing wrong with filling in TEN THOUSAND YEARS of time over a galaxy of space, to make an interesting story!

	==Exploring 10,000 years of factions and history==		==Exploring 10,000 years of factions and history==

184.90.204.48: /* Beyond the 41st Millennium */

2021-02-14T04:01:08Z

Beyond the 41st Millennium

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:01, 14 February 2021
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	* [[Story:The Shape Of The Nightmare To Come 50k]], a plot that manages to become even ''MORE'' grimdark than it already was, with the Emprah croaking, the Imperium splintered into [[Khaine]]-knows-how-many pieces, and several other incredibly crappy things changing the universe even further.		* [[Story:The Shape Of The Nightmare To Come 50k]], a plot that manages to become even ''MORE'' grimdark than it already was, with the Emprah croaking, the Imperium splintered into [[Khaine]]-knows-how-many pieces, and several other incredibly crappy things changing the universe even further.
	* [[Return of the Primarchs]], where the fall of Cadia coincides with the fleets of the fallen/dead Primarchs from before the HH, the Lost Primarchs get found and they all band together to help the living ones get up and bring the Imperium to a more presentable state. Elements of this seem to have popped up in 8th.		* [[Return of the Primarchs]], where the fall of Cadia coincides with the fleets of the fallen/dead Primarchs from before the HH, the Lost Primarchs get found and they all band together to help the living ones get up and bring the Imperium to a more presentable state. Elements of this seem to have popped up in 8th.
	* [[End Times]], Emps dies and is [[Heresy\|re-incarnated as a woman.]]		* [[End Times (Warhammer 40,000)]], Emps dies and is [[Heresy\|re-incarnated as a woman.]]
	*Legion XI: [[Age of Sigmar]] is actually lost primarch Sigmar's madness in the warp. [[The Emperor]] finds him. Galaxy goes [[Heresy\|Imperium-hating]] even more than now. [[Warhammer fantasy]] returns.		*Legion XI: [[Age of Sigmar]] is actually lost primarch Sigmar's madness in the warp. [[The Emperor]] finds him. Galaxy goes [[Heresy\|Imperium-hating]] even more than now. [[Warhammer fantasy]] returns.
	* [[TTS\|If the Emperor had a Text-To-Speech Device]] is a sillier, more [[Noblebright]] interpretation of the setting.		* [[TTS\|If the Emperor had a Text-To-Speech Device]] is a sillier, more [[Noblebright]] interpretation of the setting.

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:46, 16 July 2021
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	*[[Eberron]] - A setting with the explicit objective of not advancing the story		*[[Eberron]] - A setting with the explicit objective of not advancing the story
	*[[Dark Sun]] - A setting where advancing the story forward too quickly proved to be a bad idea		*[[Dark Sun]] - A setting where advancing the story forward too quickly proved to be a bad idea
			*[[World of Darkness]] - Two settings actually, one where advancing the story ate everything else, and one where advancing the story became a dirty word as a direct reaction to the former.
	*[[Emperor James]] - A setting was marked but still visible of the writers mistakes		*[[Emperor James]] - A setting was marked but still visible of the writers mistakes

	[[Category:Warhammer 40,000]]		[[Category:Warhammer 40,000]]
	[[Category: Warhammer Fantasy]]		[[Category: Warhammer Fantasy]]