Alignment - Revision history

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2025-08-07T11:21:52Z

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1d4chan>Saarlacfunkel: /* Alignment, Allegiance and Personality in other RPGs */

2023-05-07T19:15:24Z

Alignment, Allegiance and Personality in other RPGs

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:15, 7 May 2023
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	== Alignment, Allegiance and Personality in other RPGs ==		== Alignment, Allegiance and Personality in other RPGs ==
	* White Wolf's [[World of Darkness]] games clearly separate allegiance and personality. For example, Vampire: the Masquerade has Camarilla, Anarchs, and Sabbat for the character's basic allegiance (although unlike D&D, these have no metaphysical consequences). All of the World of Darkness games use a shopping list of Jungian archetypes to describe a character's personal code of conduct, described as their "Nature." The games have much emphasis on social interactions, betrayal, deception and general being a bastard, so there's also the archetype they present publicly, called their "Demeanor." Good or evil can be a bit irrelevant when the player characters are all vampires/werewolves/demigods/dead/half-imaginary. Characters that behaved appropriately to their Nature archetype were gained a stronger self-confidence, evidenced by awarding "willpower" points they could spend later to make tasks more likely to succeed.		* White Wolf's [[World of Darkness]] games clearly separate allegiance and personality. For example, Vampire: the Masquerade has Camarilla, Anarchs, and Sabbat for the character's basic allegiance (although unlike D&D, these have no metaphysical consequences). All of the World of Darkness games use a shopping list of Jungian archetypes to describe a character's personal code of conduct, described as their "Nature." The games have much emphasis on social interactions, betrayal, deception and general being a bastard, so there's also the archetype they present publicly, called their "Demeanor." Good or evil can be a bit irrelevant when the player characters are all vampires/werewolves/demigods/dead/half-imaginary. Characters that behaved appropriately to their Nature archetype were gained a stronger self-confidence, evidenced by awarding "willpower" points they could spend later to make tasks more likely to succeed.

	**There's also nWoD/Chronicles of Darkness' Virtue and Vice system, where your character's most fundamental drives are located, that served some of the purposes of character alignment. (nWoD confined it to the traditional Seven Deadly Sins and their opposite, but CoD opened it up to just about anything.)		**There's also nWoD/Chronicles of Darkness' Virtue and Vice system, where your character's most fundamental drives are located, that served some of the purposes of character alignment. (nWoD confined it to the traditional Seven Deadly Sins and their opposite, but CoD opened it up to just about anything.)

1d4chan>Saarlacfunkel: /* Alignment, Allegiance and Personality in other RPGs */

2023-05-07T19:15:08Z

Alignment, Allegiance and Personality in other RPGs

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:15, 7 May 2023
Line 225:		Line 225:
	== Alignment, Allegiance and Personality in other RPGs ==		== Alignment, Allegiance and Personality in other RPGs ==
	* White Wolf's [[World of Darkness]] games clearly separate allegiance and personality. For example, Vampire: the Masquerade has Camarilla, Anarchs, and Sabbat for the character's basic allegiance (although unlike D&D, these have no metaphysical consequences). All of the World of Darkness games use a shopping list of Jungian archetypes to describe a character's personal code of conduct, described as their "Nature." The games have much emphasis on social interactions, betrayal, deception and general being a bastard, so there's also the archetype they present publicly, called their "Demeanor." Good or evil can be a bit irrelevant when the player characters are all vampires/werewolves/demigods/dead/half-imaginary. Characters that behaved appropriately to their Nature archetype were gained a stronger self-confidence, evidenced by awarding "willpower" points they could spend later to make tasks more likely to succeed.		* White Wolf's [[World of Darkness]] games clearly separate allegiance and personality. For example, Vampire: the Masquerade has Camarilla, Anarchs, and Sabbat for the character's basic allegiance (although unlike D&D, these have no metaphysical consequences). All of the World of Darkness games use a shopping list of Jungian archetypes to describe a character's personal code of conduct, described as their "Nature." The games have much emphasis on social interactions, betrayal, deception and general being a bastard, so there's also the archetype they present publicly, called their "Demeanor." Good or evil can be a bit irrelevant when the player characters are all vampires/werewolves/demigods/dead/half-imaginary. Characters that behaved appropriately to their Nature archetype were gained a stronger self-confidence, evidenced by awarding "willpower" points they could spend later to make tasks more likely to succeed.

			**There's also nWoD/Chronicles of Darkness' Virtue and Vice system, where your character's most fundamental drives are located, that served some of the purposes of character alignment. (nWoD confined it to the traditional Seven Deadly Sins and their opposite, but CoD opened it up to just about anything.)

	* White Wolf's [[Exalted]] has the four Virtues: Valor, Compassion, Conviction and Temperance. All are measured on a scale of 1-5 for mortals, but some beings can go up to ten. It describes, respectively, how brave you are, how nice you are, how good you are at sticking to your guns, and how much willpower you can muster to avoid temptation. Two is considered the human average, but since you're (hopefully!) supposed to be some kind of mythical hero, you have to at least three in something to start with.		* White Wolf's [[Exalted]] has the four Virtues: Valor, Compassion, Conviction and Temperance. All are measured on a scale of 1-5 for mortals, but some beings can go up to ten. It describes, respectively, how brave you are, how nice you are, how good you are at sticking to your guns, and how much willpower you can muster to avoid temptation. Two is considered the human average, but since you're (hopefully!) supposed to be some kind of mythical hero, you have to at least three in something to start with.

2A02:8070:8E81:DD40:B679:150C:42BF:4848: /* Chaotic Good */

2023-05-02T17:09:20Z

Chaotic Good

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:09, 2 May 2023
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	Essentially adopting the credo of: "If you want peace, prepare for war", they will do good deeds and actions using rather unorthodox methods. Though this alignment can respect the law, they mostly break in it efforts to protect people, since to them the "Good" comes before the "Law". This tends to have [[skub\|mixed results]]. Sure, that cop beat his wife or took drug money… and maybe that bank was run by the mafia. But the fact remains he broke rules - he broke them for good reasons, but he broke them. His well-intentioned extremism is going to get you in deep shit with the man, so be sure to betray him to the establishment at first opportunity. For an apt summary, think Robin Hood. Beware of variant 2 (good consquences no matter the actions) [[Stupid Good]].		Essentially adopting the credo of: "If you want peace, prepare for war", they will do good deeds and actions using rather unorthodox methods. Though this alignment can respect the law, they mostly break in it efforts to protect people, since to them the "Good" comes before the "Law". This tends to have [[skub\|mixed results]]. Sure, that cop beat his wife or took drug money… and maybe that bank was run by the mafia. But the fact remains he broke rules - he broke them for good reasons, but he broke them. His well-intentioned extremism is going to get you in deep shit with the man, so be sure to betray him to the establishment at first opportunity. For an apt summary, think Robin Hood. Beware of variant 2 (good consquences no matter the actions) [[Stupid Good]].

	A variation that also falls under this category is the "thief with a heart of gold" - people like Han Solo who were thrust into a life of crime by circumstance and generally aren't above harming people, but have kept their moral compass intact and will, for example, outright refuse to steal a valuable artifact if they see that its value to its owner far exceeds its material worth (think of a precious silver locket that holds a picture of a deceased relative, for example) or harm people that are vulnerable or defenseless.		A variation that also falls under this category is the "thief with a heart of gold" - people like Han Solo who were thrust into a life of crime by circumstance and generally aren't above harming people, but have kept their moral compass intact and will, for example, outright refuse to steal a valuable artifact if they see that its value to its owner far exceeds its material worth (think of a precious silver locket that holds a picture of a deceased relative, for example) or harm people that are vulnerable or defenseless. Same goes for people that like to boast about their badness, but actually are big softies at heart that will go out of their way to protect their friends, even if that runs against their self-image.

	Example(s): A freedom fighter, combating an oppressive regime to free their people or a dashing rogue who feeds the poor from the money he stole.		Example(s): A freedom fighter, combating an oppressive regime to free their people or a dashing rogue who feeds the poor from the money he stole.

1d4chan>Piroko: /* Neutral Evil */

2023-05-02T16:37:51Z

Neutral Evil

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:37, 2 May 2023
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	{{Topquote\|I think my mask of sanity is about to slip.\|Patrick Bateman, American Psycho}}		{{Topquote\|I think my mask of sanity is about to slip.\|Patrick Bateman, American Psycho}}

	The asshole alignment. Follows the law as long as it helps them, then breaks it when it doesn't. Ingratiates themselves to people, before betraying them. Does good deeds, until they cease to elevate them. Social acceptance never really comes into it with these guys. There's some variety on how willing they are to act on their evil impulses, on one hand you can have someone that slits people's throats and purses for a living but on the other you can actually have a NE individual that goes through his entire life without directly killing someone, not because they haven't thought about it, but because they know the circumstances they find themselves in make getting away with murder flawlessly more trouble than it is worth. The latter are also the reason why Paladins can't just go around using their "detect evil" ability and throwing everyone that tests positive into jail, not everyone who has the potential to be a murderer will do it (in fact, most won’t, they'll just be garden variety assholes instead).		The asshole alignment. <strike>Follows</strike> ''hides behind'' the law as long as it helps them, then breaks it when it doesn't. Ingratiates themselves to people, before betraying them. Does good deeds, until they cease to elevate them. Social acceptance never really comes into it with these guys. There's some variety on how willing they are to act on their evil impulses, on one hand you can have someone that slits people's throats and purses for a living but on the other you can actually have a NE individual that goes through his entire life without directly killing someone, not because they haven't thought about it, but because they know the circumstances they find themselves in make getting away with murder flawlessly more trouble than it is worth. The latter are also the reason why Paladins can't just go around using their "detect evil" ability and throwing everyone that tests positive into jail, not everyone who has the potential to be a murderer will do it (in fact, most won’t, they'll just be garden variety assholes instead).

	If he's being an insufferable prick you should probably just kill him, nobody will question you. If he's generally acting like a good guy you should definitely just kill him, ''he's up to [[Just as planned\|something]]''. Beware of [[Stupid Evil]] if they are of the more impulsive variant or are arrogantly confident on the current situation.		If he's being an insufferable prick you should probably just kill him, nobody will question you. If he's generally acting like a good guy you should definitely just kill him, ''he's up to [[Just as planned\|something]]''. Beware of [[Stupid Evil]] if they are of the more impulsive variant or are arrogantly confident on the current situation.

2A02:8070:8E81:DD40:B679:150C:42BF:4848: /* Chaotic Good */

2023-05-02T15:08:42Z

Chaotic Good

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:08, 2 May 2023
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	Example(s): A freedom fighter, combating an oppressive regime to free their people or a dashing rogue who feeds the poor from the money he stole.		Example(s): A freedom fighter, combating an oppressive regime to free their people or a dashing rogue who feeds the poor from the money he stole.

	Iconic Character(s): [[Batman\|The Goddam Batman]], Han Solo, ~~MacDuff from the Scottish Play~~		Iconic Character(s): [[Batman\|The Goddam Batman]], Han Solo, Captain Jack Sparrow

	Expected Personality: A hotblooded asshole with a barely functioning moral compass, or a merciless vigilante.		Expected Personality: A hotblooded asshole with a barely functioning moral compass, or a merciless vigilante.

2A02:8070:8E81:DD40:B679:150C:42BF:4848: /* Chaotic Good */

2023-05-02T15:03:47Z

Chaotic Good

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:03, 2 May 2023
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	=== Chaotic Good ===		=== Chaotic Good ===
	{{Topquote\|A vigilante is just a man lost in the scramble for his own gratification. He can be destroyed, or locked up. But if you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can't stop you, then you become something else entirely.\|Ra's Al Ghul}}		{{Topquote\|A vigilante is just a man lost in the scramble for his own gratification. He can be destroyed, or locked up. But if you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can't stop you, then you become something else entirely.\|Ra's Al Ghul}}

			{{Topquote\|I'm dishonest, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly, it's the honest ones you want to watch out for, because you can never predict when they're going to do something incredibly stupid.\|Jack Sparrow}}
	Essentially adopting the credo of: "If you want peace, prepare for war", they will do good deeds and actions using rather unorthodox methods. Though this alignment can respect the law, they mostly break in it efforts to protect people, since to them the "Good" comes before the "Law". This tends to have [[skub\|mixed results]]. Sure, that cop beat his wife or took drug money… and maybe that bank was run by the mafia. But the fact remains he broke rules - he broke them for good reasons, but he broke them. His well-intentioned extremism is going to get you in deep shit with the man, so be sure to betray him to the establishment at first opportunity. For an apt summary, think Robin Hood. Beware of variant 2 (good consquences no matter the actions) [[Stupid Good]].		Essentially adopting the credo of: "If you want peace, prepare for war", they will do good deeds and actions using rather unorthodox methods. Though this alignment can respect the law, they mostly break in it efforts to protect people, since to them the "Good" comes before the "Law". This tends to have [[skub\|mixed results]]. Sure, that cop beat his wife or took drug money… and maybe that bank was run by the mafia. But the fact remains he broke rules - he broke them for good reasons, but he broke them. His well-intentioned extremism is going to get you in deep shit with the man, so be sure to betray him to the establishment at first opportunity. For an apt summary, think Robin Hood. Beware of variant 2 (good consquences no matter the actions) [[Stupid Good]].

2A02:8070:8E81:DD40:B679:150C:42BF:4848: /* Chaotic Good */

2023-05-02T03:16:32Z

Chaotic Good

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:16, 2 May 2023
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	Essentially adopting the credo of: "If you want peace, prepare for war", they will do good deeds and actions using rather unorthodox methods. Though this alignment can respect the law, they mostly break in it efforts to protect people, since to them the "Good" comes before the "Law". This tends to have [[skub\|mixed results]]. Sure, that cop beat his wife or took drug money… and maybe that bank was run by the mafia. But the fact remains he broke rules - he broke them for good reasons, but he broke them. His well-intentioned extremism is going to get you in deep shit with the man, so be sure to betray him to the establishment at first opportunity. For an apt summary, think Robin Hood. Beware of variant 2 (good consquences no matter the actions) [[Stupid Good]].		Essentially adopting the credo of: "If you want peace, prepare for war", they will do good deeds and actions using rather unorthodox methods. Though this alignment can respect the law, they mostly break in it efforts to protect people, since to them the "Good" comes before the "Law". This tends to have [[skub\|mixed results]]. Sure, that cop beat his wife or took drug money… and maybe that bank was run by the mafia. But the fact remains he broke rules - he broke them for good reasons, but he broke them. His well-intentioned extremism is going to get you in deep shit with the man, so be sure to betray him to the establishment at first opportunity. For an apt summary, think Robin Hood. Beware of variant 2 (good consquences no matter the actions) [[Stupid Good]].

	~~Example(s):~~ A ~~freedom fighter~~, ~~combating an oppressive regime~~ to ~~free their~~ people.		A variation that also falls under this category is the "thief with a heart of gold" - people like Han Solo who were thrust into a life of crime by circumstance and generally aren't above harming people, but have kept their moral compass intact and will, for example, outright refuse to steal a valuable artifact if they see that its value to its owner far exceeds its material worth (think of a precious silver locket that holds a picture of a deceased relative, for example) or harm people that are vulnerable or defenseless.

	Iconic Character(s): [[Batman\|The Goddam Batman]]		Example(s): A freedom fighter, combating an oppressive regime to free their people or a dashing rogue who feeds the poor from the money he stole.

			Iconic Character(s): [[Batman\|The Goddam Batman]], Han Solo, MacDuff from the Scottish Play

	Expected Personality: A hotblooded asshole with a barely functioning moral compass, or a merciless vigilante.		Expected Personality: A hotblooded asshole with a barely functioning moral compass, or a merciless vigilante.

1d4chan>A Walrus: /* Alignments in Real Life */

2023-02-03T07:01:34Z

Alignments in Real Life

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:01, 3 February 2023
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	===Alignments in Real Life===		===Alignments in Real Life===
	A lot of tabletop game mechanics exist to simplify complex things down to a few simple things you can work out with a calculator. There are a lot of variables in the outcome of Ned the Knight being hit with a sword IRL in regards to angle of impact, area of impact, blunt force trauma and similar, but in a game it comes down to a pair of dice rolls and a loss of eight hit points. Alignment is a lot like that that. There are questions which are generally easy (is killing a random innocent child good or bad?) but there are a lot more that are complex. For example a civil war breaks out because a monarch attempts to centralize the kingdom and some noble houses object to this centralization. Is the monarch a power mad tyrant opposed by houses defending tradition and their smallfolk against the overreach, or is the monarch a modernizer seeking to improve and stabilize their realm opposed by obstinate lordlings concerned only with their own power bases at the expense of the kingdom and it's people?		A lot of tabletop game mechanics exist to simplify complex things down to a few simple things you can work out with a calculator. There are a lot of variables in the outcome of Ned the Knight being hit with a sword IRL in regards to angle of impact, area of impact, blunt force trauma and similar, but in a game it comes down to a pair of dice rolls and a loss of eight hit points. Alignment is a lot like that that. There are questions which are generally easy (is killing a random innocent child good or bad?) but there are a lot more that are complex. For example a civil war breaks out because a monarch attempts to centralize the kingdom and some noble houses object to this centralization. Is the monarch a power mad tyrant opposed by houses defending tradition and their smallfolk against the crown's overreach, or is the monarch a modernizer seeking to improve and stabilize their realm opposed by obstinate lordlings concerned only with their own power bases at the expense of the kingdom and it's people? Both could make the case, especially given the limited information given and people will come to different conclusions.

	From basic primate social instincts to various religious figures, lawmakers, philosophers, commentators, political theorists and behavioral psychologists there have been a lot of factors which shape how people see morality. To function a society needs some form of morality but the permutations can be radically different, compare Confucius (highly traditional and concerned with hierarchic relationships and societal harmony) with John Locke (highly individualistic, concerned with individual rights and generally non-interventionist) as an example.		From basic primate social instincts to various religious figures, lawmakers, philosophers, commentators, political theorists and behavioral psychologists there have been a lot of factors which shape how people see morality. To function a society needs some form of morality but the permutations can be radically different, compare Confucius (highly traditional and concerned with hierarchic relationships and societal harmony) with John Locke (highly individualistic, concerned with individual rights and generally non-interventionist) as an example.