Bard - Revision history

Sdhjk: /* 3rd Edition */

2025-08-30T14:31:07Z

3rd Edition

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:31, 30 August 2025
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	===3rd Edition===		===3rd Edition===
	The idea of the Bard being the weakling class mostly started in 3rd edition. Here, it become more separate from the newly renamed Rogue, and it gained its own distinctive spell-list, which included some spells on both the [[Wizard]] and [[Cleric]] lists - Bards were the only non-Cleric non-Druid classes in the corebook to have access to Cure Wounds spells. But, individually, the class was pretty weak if taken entirely straight from the corebook; as 3e progressed, bards became more powerful because they could be customized better with feats and [[Prestige Class]]es. 3.5 Edition splatbooks almost always included good spells, feats, and prestige classes for bards--so by the end of the print run Bards had a spectacular amount of options to choose from (some extremely strong). Bards were initially classified as [[Tier System\|tier 3]], though later revision of the system revised this to only being tier 3 if they had open sourcebooks and drops them tier 4 if playing core only.		The idea of the Bard being the weakling class mostly started in 3rd edition. Here, it become more separate from the newly renamed Rogue, and it gained its own distinctive spell-list, which included some spells on both the [[Wizard]] and [[Cleric]] lists - Bards were the only non-Cleric non-Druid classes in the corebook to have access to Cure Wounds spells. But, individually, the class was pretty weak if taken entirely straight from the corebook; as 3e progressed, bards became more powerful because they could be customized better with feats and [[Prestige Class]]es. 3.5 Edition splatbooks almost always included good spells, feats, and prestige classes for bards--so by the end of the print run Bards had a spectacular amount of options to choose from (some extremely strong). Bards were initially classified as [[Tier System\|tier 3]], though later revision of the system revised this to only being tier 3 if they had open sourcebooks and drops them tier 4 if playing core only.

			Also, in 3e, Bardsongs (musical spellcasting) and most other things were tied to total character level, not Bard levels. The common best "Bard" build was Bard 1/[[Rogue]] 19, due to same spellcasting with better class features - and it was also common to combine Bard with other Charisma-based casters, like [[Sorcerer]]/[[Paladin]]/[[Warlock]]. This was fixed in 3.5e.

	On the other hand, a lot of their abilities were just ''busted''. Bardic Knowledge basically meant they never had to worry about failing any kind of knowledge check by even mid-levels, and with even modest [[Munchkin\|optimization]] their Jack of All Trades skill could let them effectively replace almost any actual skill-person in the party. Plus, even a half-caster is still a caster, and this was a [[CoDzilla\|caster's world]].		On the other hand, a lot of their abilities were just ''busted''. Bardic Knowledge basically meant they never had to worry about failing any kind of knowledge check by even mid-levels, and with even modest [[Munchkin\|optimization]] their Jack of All Trades skill could let them effectively replace almost any actual skill-person in the party. Plus, even a half-caster is still a caster, and this was a [[CoDzilla\|caster's world]].

imported>Administrator: 133 revisions imported

2023-06-17T21:57:55Z

133 revisions imported

← Older revision	Revision as of 21:57, 17 June 2023
(No difference)

1d4chan>Slipmcripfist: direct link

2023-05-12T03:12:05Z

direct link

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:12, 12 May 2023
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	===3rd Edition===		===3rd Edition===
	The idea of the Bard being the weakling class mostly started in 3rd edition. Here, it become more separate from the newly renamed Rogue, and it gained its own distinctive spell-list, which included some spells on both the [[Wizard]] and [[Cleric]] lists - Bards were the only non-Cleric non-Druid classes in the corebook to have access to Cure Wounds spells. But, individually, the class was pretty weak if taken entirely straight from the corebook; as 3e progressed, bards became more powerful because they could be customized better with feats and [[Prestige ~~class\|prestige classes~~]]. 3.5 Edition splatbooks almost always included good spells, feats, and prestige classes for bards--so by the end of the print run Bards had a spectacular amount of options to choose from (some extremely strong). Bards were initially ~~given the classification of~~ [[Tier System\|tier 3]], though later revision of the system ~~revises~~ this to only being tier 3 if they had open sourcebooks and drops them tier 4 if playing core only.		The idea of the Bard being the weakling class mostly started in 3rd edition. Here, it become more separate from the newly renamed Rogue, and it gained its own distinctive spell-list, which included some spells on both the [[Wizard]] and [[Cleric]] lists - Bards were the only non-Cleric non-Druid classes in the corebook to have access to Cure Wounds spells. But, individually, the class was pretty weak if taken entirely straight from the corebook; as 3e progressed, bards became more powerful because they could be customized better with feats and [[Prestige Class]]es. 3.5 Edition splatbooks almost always included good spells, feats, and prestige classes for bards--so by the end of the print run Bards had a spectacular amount of options to choose from (some extremely strong). Bards were initially classified as [[Tier System\|tier 3]], though later revision of the system revised this to only being tier 3 if they had open sourcebooks and drops them tier 4 if playing core only.

	On the other hand, a lot of their abilities were just ''busted''. Bardic Knowledge basically meant they never had to worry about failing any kind of knowledge check by even mid-levels, and with even modest [[Munchkin\|optimization]] their Jack of All Trades skill could let them effectively replace almost any actual skill-person in the party. Plus, even a half-caster is still a caster, and this was a [[CoDzilla\|caster's world]].		On the other hand, a lot of their abilities were just ''busted''. Bardic Knowledge basically meant they never had to worry about failing any kind of knowledge check by even mid-levels, and with even modest [[Munchkin\|optimization]] their Jack of All Trades skill could let them effectively replace almost any actual skill-person in the party. Plus, even a half-caster is still a caster, and this was a [[CoDzilla\|caster's world]].

1d4chan>ThatOneBruvva: /* 13th Age */

2022-12-05T22:46:39Z

13th Age

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:46, 5 December 2022
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	===13th Age===		===13th Age===
	In 13th Age Bards can be considered the default [[Gish]] of the game, their main feature are Songs, songs allow the player to gain an effect, and then every round afterwards they have to roll to maintain the effect, if they fail or choose not to maintain the Song, then a final effect happens. These Songs also take up the same slots as the traditional spells, which do more direct damage and debuffs, while the songs work more on the buffs. The Bard also has Battle Cries, flexible attacks that corroborate to the result on the d20, much like a [[Fighter]].		In [[13th Age]] Bards can be considered the default [[Gish]] of the game, their main feature are Songs, songs allow the player to gain an effect, and then every round afterwards they have to roll to maintain the effect, if they fail or choose not to maintain the Song, then a final effect happens. These Songs also take up the same slots as the traditional spells, which do more direct damage and debuffs, while the songs work more on the buffs. The Bard also has Battle Cries, flexible attacks that corroborate to the result on the d20, much like a [[Fighter]].

	Their Talents are a mixed bag of tricks, from getting a positive relationship with an Icon to jacking spells from another class to replacing their reliance on Charisma to Intelligence or Wisdom. Another significant talent set they can pick allows them to focus more on Songs or Battle Cries, letting them take an additional one of their choice.		Their Talents are a mixed bag of tricks, from getting a positive relationship with an Icon (the nigh-deific setting defining powers of the setting) to jacking spells from another class to replacing their reliance on Charisma to Intelligence or Wisdom. Another significant talent set they can pick allows them to focus more on Songs or Battle Cries, letting them take an additional one of their choice.

	===5th Edition===		===5th Edition===

1d4chan>ThatOneBruvva: /* 13th Age */

2022-12-05T22:46:01Z

13th Age

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:46, 5 December 2022
Line 49:		Line 49:

	===13th Age===		===13th Age===
	In 13th Age Bards can be considered the default [[Gish]] of the game, their main feature are Songs, songs allow the player to gain an effect, and then every round afterwards they have to roll to maintain the effect, if they fail or choose not to maintain the Song, then a final effect happens.		In 13th Age Bards can be considered the default [[Gish]] of the game, their main feature are Songs, songs allow the player to gain an effect, and then every round afterwards they have to roll to maintain the effect, if they fail or choose not to maintain the Song, then a final effect happens. These Songs also take up the same slots as the traditional spells, which do more direct damage and debuffs, while the songs work more on the buffs. The Bard also has Battle Cries, flexible attacks that corroborate to the result on the d20, much like a [[Fighter]].

	~~The Bard also has Battle hymns, flexible attacks that corroborate to the result on the d20, much like a [[Fighter]].~~ Their Talents are a mixed bag of tricks, from getting a positive relationship with an Icon to jacking spells from another class to replacing their reliance on Charisma to Intelligence or Wisdom.		Their Talents are a mixed bag of tricks, from getting a positive relationship with an Icon to jacking spells from another class to replacing their reliance on Charisma to Intelligence or Wisdom. Another significant talent set they can pick allows them to focus more on Songs or Battle Cries, letting them take an additional one of their choice.

	===5th Edition===		===5th Edition===

1d4chan>Phantom in the Distant Seas: /* 13th Age */

2022-12-05T21:16:41Z

13th Age

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:16, 5 December 2022
Line 49:		Line 49:

	===13th Age===		===13th Age===
	In 13th Age Bards can be considered the default [[Gish]] of the game, their main feature are ~~Spells~~, ~~spells~~ allow the player to gain an effect, and then every round afterwards they have to roll to maintain the effect, if they fail or choose not to maintain the Song, then a final effect happens.		In 13th Age Bards can be considered the default [[Gish]] of the game, their main feature are Songs, songs allow the player to gain an effect, and then every round afterwards they have to roll to maintain the effect, if they fail or choose not to maintain the Song, then a final effect happens.

	The Bard also has Battle hymns, flexible attacks that corroborate to the result on the d20, much like a [[Fighter]]. Their Talents are a mixed bag of tricks, from getting a positive relationship with an Icon to jacking spells from another class to replacing their reliance on Charisma to Intelligence or Wisdom.		The Bard also has Battle hymns, flexible attacks that corroborate to the result on the d20, much like a [[Fighter]]. Their Talents are a mixed bag of tricks, from getting a positive relationship with an Icon to jacking spells from another class to replacing their reliance on Charisma to Intelligence or Wisdom.

1d4chan>Phantom in the Distant Seas at 23:09, 26 September 2022

2022-09-26T23:09:49Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:09, 26 September 2022
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	{{D&D4-Classes}}		{{D&D4-Classes}}

			===13th Age===
			In 13th Age Bards can be considered the default [[Gish]] of the game, their main feature are Spells, spells allow the player to gain an effect, and then every round afterwards they have to roll to maintain the effect, if they fail or choose not to maintain the Song, then a final effect happens.

			The Bard also has Battle hymns, flexible attacks that corroborate to the result on the d20, much like a [[Fighter]]. Their Talents are a mixed bag of tricks, from getting a positive relationship with an Icon to jacking spells from another class to replacing their reliance on Charisma to Intelligence or Wisdom.

	===5th Edition===		===5th Edition===

1d4chan>Skadooshbag: /* 1st & 2nd Edition */

2022-07-19T21:46:20Z

1st & 2nd Edition

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:46, 19 July 2022
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	The reason for this almost certainly relates that to the fact that among the ancient Celts of Gaul and the British Isles, the priestly caste, the Druids, refused to write anything down, instead relying on memorization. One subset of these Druids were the Bards, who functioned in a similar manner to a norse [[Skald]]. These bards would continue to exist even after the rest of the Druids died out, and even survived the coming of Christianity, although they lost their religious status.		The reason for this almost certainly relates that to the fact that among the ancient Celts of Gaul and the British Isles, the priestly caste, the Druids, refused to write anything down, instead relying on memorization. One subset of these Druids were the Bards, who functioned in a similar manner to a norse [[Skald]]. These bards would continue to exist even after the rest of the Druids died out, and even survived the coming of Christianity, although they lost their religious status.

	Needless to say, this was ridiculously complicated and was quickly changed; 2nd edition introduced the now-iconic definition of the Bard. This version of the Bard was considered a [[Rogue]]-school class (what later editions call the Rogue was, at the time, called the [[Thief]]), and gained most of the same abilities as a Thief, like picking pockets and finding/removing traps, though naturally they weren't as good at it. What made it unique was its party-buffing Bardic Music ability, its slightly better combat skills, its inferior thieving skills, and its ability to cast a number of [[Mage]] spells.		Needless to say, this was ridiculously complicated and was quickly changed; 2nd edition introduced the now-iconic definition of the Bard. This version of the Bard was considered a [[Rogue]]-school class (what later editions call the Rogue was, at the time, called the [[Thief]]), and gained most of the same abilities as a Thief, like picking pockets and finding/removing traps, though naturally they weren't as good at it. What made it unique was its party-buffing Bardic Music ability, its slightly better combat skills, its inferior thieving skills, and its ability to cast a number of [[Mage]] spells (as long as they weren't wearing armor).

	Notably, the [[Dark Sun]] incarnation of the class focused more on intrigue and being masters of poison use than just throwing buffs around.		Notably, the [[Dark Sun]] incarnation of the class focused more on intrigue and being masters of poison use than just throwing buffs around.

1d4chan>Skadooshbag: /* 1st & 2nd Edition */

2022-07-19T21:45:09Z

1st & 2nd Edition

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:45, 19 July 2022
Line 20:		Line 20:
	The reason for this almost certainly relates that to the fact that among the ancient Celts of Gaul and the British Isles, the priestly caste, the Druids, refused to write anything down, instead relying on memorization. One subset of these Druids were the Bards, who functioned in a similar manner to a norse [[Skald]]. These bards would continue to exist even after the rest of the Druids died out, and even survived the coming of Christianity, although they lost their religious status.		The reason for this almost certainly relates that to the fact that among the ancient Celts of Gaul and the British Isles, the priestly caste, the Druids, refused to write anything down, instead relying on memorization. One subset of these Druids were the Bards, who functioned in a similar manner to a norse [[Skald]]. These bards would continue to exist even after the rest of the Druids died out, and even survived the coming of Christianity, although they lost their religious status.

	Needless to say, this was ridiculously complicated and was quickly changed; 2nd edition introduced the now-iconic definition of the Bard. This version of the Bard was considered a [[Rogue]]-school class (what later editions call the Rogue was, at the time, called the [[Thief]]), and gained most of the same abilities as a Thief, like picking pockets and finding/removing traps. What made it unique was its party-buffing Bardic Music ability, its slightly better combat skills, its inferior thieving skills, and its ability to cast a number of [[Mage]] spells.		Needless to say, this was ridiculously complicated and was quickly changed; 2nd edition introduced the now-iconic definition of the Bard. This version of the Bard was considered a [[Rogue]]-school class (what later editions call the Rogue was, at the time, called the [[Thief]]), and gained most of the same abilities as a Thief, like picking pockets and finding/removing traps, though naturally they weren't as good at it. What made it unique was its party-buffing Bardic Music ability, its slightly better combat skills, its inferior thieving skills, and its ability to cast a number of [[Mage]] spells.

	Notably, the [[Dark Sun]] incarnation of the class focused more on intrigue and being masters of poison use than just throwing buffs around.		Notably, the [[Dark Sun]] incarnation of the class focused more on intrigue and being masters of poison use than just throwing buffs around.

1d4chan>Skadooshbag: /* 1st & 2nd Edition */

2022-07-19T21:38:42Z

1st & 2nd Edition

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:38, 19 July 2022
Line 17:		Line 17:
	==Dungeons & Dragons==		==Dungeons & Dragons==
	===1st & 2nd Edition===		===1st & 2nd Edition===
	In [[Advanced Dungeons & Dragons]], the Bard started out as a ~~right~~ ''mess'' of a class. You started the game as a [[Fighter]] and then, at any point between levels 5 and 8, you had to [[multiclassing\|dual-class]] over to the [[Thief]]. Then, after reaching a minimum of 5th level as a Thief, and before they reached level 9, they had to dual-class again, this time to [[Druid]] - except this time, they didn't gain Druid abilities but gained Bard abilities, which was a kind of subclass of Druid. While a Fighter/Thief makes sense for a bard, the Druid class is close to the [[FAIL\|exact opposite]] of the Bard class.<br>		In [[Advanced Dungeons & Dragons]], the Bard started out as a ''complete and utter mess'' of a class. You started the game as a [[Fighter]] and then, at any point between levels 5 and 8, you had to [[multiclassing\|dual-class]] over to the [[Thief]]. Then, after reaching a minimum of 5th level as a Thief, and before they reached level 9, they had to dual-class again, this time to [[Druid]] - except this time, they didn't gain Druid abilities but gained Bard abilities, which was a kind of subclass of Druid. While a Fighter/Thief makes sense for a bard, the Druid class is close to the [[FAIL\|exact opposite]] of the Bard class.<br>
	The reason for this almost certainly relates that to the fact that among the ancient Celts of Gaul and the British Isles, the priestly caste, the Druids, refused to write anything down, instead relying on memorization. One subset of these Druids were the Bards, who functioned in a similar manner to a norse [[Skald]]. These bards would continue to exist even after the rest of the Druids died out, and even survived the coming of Christianity, although they lost their religious status.		The reason for this almost certainly relates that to the fact that among the ancient Celts of Gaul and the British Isles, the priestly caste, the Druids, refused to write anything down, instead relying on memorization. One subset of these Druids were the Bards, who functioned in a similar manner to a norse [[Skald]]. These bards would continue to exist even after the rest of the Druids died out, and even survived the coming of Christianity, although they lost their religious status.