Beast: The Primordial - Revision history

98.115.24.151: /* TL;DR: */

2025-10-11T21:30:49Z

TL;DR:

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:30, 11 October 2025
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	Arguably the ''real'' NWoD/CoD equivalent of [[Changeling: The Dreaming]]<ref>In that it's a tonal mess, got some serious issues about "yeah but what do they ''do''?", and seemingly not liked by anybody but the author(s).</ref>, but written by a cowardly rapist who probably got beat up in school a lot and decided to write a bunch of coping bullshit about how he's not really the bad guy while hiding behind [[SJW\|SJWism]], typical really for his ilk.		Arguably the ''real'' NWoD/CoD equivalent of [[Changeling: The Dreaming]]<ref>In that it's a tonal mess, got some serious issues about "yeah but what do they ''do''?", and seemingly not liked by anybody but the author(s).</ref>, but written by a cowardly rapist who probably got beat up in school a lot and decided to write a bunch of coping bullshit about how he's not really the bad guy while hiding behind [[SJW\|SJWism]], typical really for his ilk.

	~~Jesus Christ MacFarland.~~

	==See Also==		==See Also==

imported>Administrator: 226 revisions imported

2023-06-17T22:48:39Z

226 revisions imported

← Older revision	Revision as of 22:48, 17 June 2023
(No difference)

1d4chan>Ow, My Sanity. at 16:19, 15 June 2023

2023-06-15T16:19:44Z

Show changes

1d4chan>Newerfag: /* Incarnate */

2023-06-15T13:46:53Z

Incarnate

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:46, 15 June 2023
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	===Incarnate===		===Incarnate===
	The most complex Inheritance and the one that the game pushes as the "best" one. After reaching a certain amount of Lair, an aspiring Beast must do one of the following things:		The most complex Inheritance and the one that the game pushes as the "best" one. After reaching a certain amount of Lair, an aspiring Beast must do one of the following things:
	*Subvert a Hero's narrative by thoroughly destroying the Hero before he/she can even retaliate (i.e.: engage a Hero in battle, then kill them before they can ~~hurtm~~ you; Bashing is fine, Lethal isn't, and getting hit with an Anathema spoils the whole affair.)		*Subvert a Hero's narrative by thoroughly destroying the Hero before he/she can even retaliate (i.e.: engage a Hero in battle, then kill them before they can hurt you; Bashing is fine, Lethal isn't, and getting hit with an Anathema spoils the whole affair. Ideally, they shouldn't even know they're in a fight until they're dead.)
	*Become the Apex of the local Hive and visit their hunger on other Beasts (i.e.: find the most fearsome supernatural in the area, then kill the bastard and make it clear you're their new boss; kick in the heads of anyone who says otherwise until the point is made.)		*Become the Apex of the local Hive and visit their hunger on other Beasts (i.e.: find the most fearsome supernatural in the area, then kill the bastard and make it clear you're their new boss; kick in the heads of anyone who says otherwise until the point is made.)
	*Spawn a Legend by feeding their Horror in a spectacularly grandiose manner (i.e.: become motherfucking Slenderman; ensure everyone remembers your name and deeds for years to come.).		*Spawn a Legend by feeding their Horror in a spectacularly grandiose manner (i.e.: become motherfucking Slenderman; ensure everyone remembers your name and deeds for years to come.).

1d4chan>Newerfag at 13:22, 15 June 2023

2023-06-15T13:22:27Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:22, 15 June 2023
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	Later on, it was discovered that author Matt McFarland was accused of sexually assaulting a teenage girl and was quietly let go from Onyx Path. Following further accusations of sexual harassment in 2019 involving the abuse of his position as a senior writer, Onyx Path stripped McFarland of his remaining assignments with them and publicly condemned his actions.		Later on, it was discovered that author Matt McFarland was accused of sexually assaulting a teenage girl and was quietly let go from Onyx Path. Following further accusations of sexual harassment in 2019 involving the abuse of his position as a senior writer, Onyx Path stripped McFarland of his remaining assignments with them and publicly condemned his actions.

	When you look at all the above stuff about Beasts being entitled to indulging their Hungers, that the people are trying to stop them are evil bigots, and that they're actually doing their victims a favor in the light of said accusation... well, it starts sounding an awful lot like the sort of thing a [[FATAL\|registered sex offender]] would say in an attempt to justify his actions. If the second edition even comes to fruition expect it to be radically different in tone, if not completely rewritten. Any success will be not because of MacFarland, but in spite of him.		When you look at all the above stuff about Beasts being entitled to indulging their Hungers, that the people that are trying to stop them are evil bigots, and that they're actually doing their victims a favor in the light of said accusation... well, it starts sounding an awful lot like the sort of thing a [[FATAL\|registered sex offender]] would say in an attempt to justify his actions. If the second edition even comes to fruition expect it to be radically different in tone, if not completely rewritten. Any success will be not because of MacFarland, but in spite of him.

	==Family==		==Family==

1d4chan>Ow, My Sanity.: /* Incarnate */

2022-10-19T18:41:48Z

Incarnate

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:41, 19 October 2022
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	===Incarnate===		===Incarnate===
	The most complex Inheritance and the one that the game pushes as the "best" one. After reaching a certain amount of Lair, an aspiring Beast must do one of the following things:		The most complex Inheritance and the one that the game pushes as the "best" one. After reaching a certain amount of Lair, an aspiring Beast must do one of the following things:
	*Subvert a Hero's narrative by thoroughly destroying the Hero before he/she can even retaliate (i.e.: engage a Hero in battle, then kill them ~~without suffering any~~ Lethal ~~damage or~~ getting hit with an Anathema).		*Subvert a Hero's narrative by thoroughly destroying the Hero before he/she can even retaliate (i.e.: engage a Hero in battle, then kill them before they can hurtm you; Bashing is fine, Lethal isn't, and getting hit with an Anathema spoils the whole affair.)
	*Become the Apex of the local Hive and visit their hunger on other Beasts (i.e.: find the most fearsome supernatural in the area, then kill the bastard and make it clear you're their new boss; kick in the heads of anyone who says otherwise until the point is made)		*Become the Apex of the local Hive and visit their hunger on other Beasts (i.e.: find the most fearsome supernatural in the area, then kill the bastard and make it clear you're their new boss; kick in the heads of anyone who says otherwise until the point is made.)
	*Spawn a Legend by feeding their Horror in a spectacularly grandiose manner (i.e.: become motherfucking Slenderman; ensure everyone remembers your name and deeds for years to come.).		*Spawn a Legend by feeding their Horror in a spectacularly grandiose manner (i.e.: become motherfucking Slenderman; ensure everyone remembers your name and deeds for years to come.).

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	*They can enter the Primordial Dream at will.		*They can enter the Primordial Dream at will.
	*They can never become Ravenous or Slumbering, though they still retain the ability to use Satiety and can gain the benefits/drawbacks of high and low Satiety.		*They can never become Ravenous or Slumbering, though they still retain the ability to use Satiety and can gain the benefits/drawbacks of high and low Satiety.
	*Their Life and Legend is replaced by a Myth. However, if they lose control of their Myth, they lose all their Incarnate powers (becoming a regular, if ~~high-power~~ Beast) and anybody can place Anathemas on them. Good fucking luck with that when you remember all the shit they can pull.		*Their Life and Legend is replaced by a Myth. However, if they lose control of their Myth, they lose all their Incarnate powers (becoming a regular, if very powerful Beast) and anybody can place Anathemas on them. Good fucking luck with that when you remember all the shit they can pull.

	One of the canon examples of this is Boleslav, the Giant King: a sociopathic Anakim who took over his isolated mountain hometown by killing the town's leaders, then confined everyone to the town where they live under his esoteric and extremely harsh rules; since his laws are difficult to comprehend at the best of times and the punishments are usually physical, this essentially gives him a near-limitless supply of victims. Whenever Heroes came to try and stand up to him, he played dumb and lured them into his traps to wear them down, then ripped them apart with his bare hands when they were weakened. As the town lacks any modern conveniences like telephones or the internet, and Boleslav himself never leaves the town, his rule is essentially unchallenged within its borders.		One of the canon examples of this is Boleslav, the Giant King: a sociopathic Anakim who took over his isolated mountain hometown by killing the town's leaders, then confined everyone to the town where they live under his esoteric and extremely harsh rules; since his laws are difficult to comprehend at the best of times and the punishments are usually physical, this essentially gives him a near-limitless supply of victims to keep himself sated. Whenever Heroes came to try and stand up to him, he played dumb and lured them into his traps to wear them down, then ripped them apart with his bare hands when they were weakened. As the town lacks any modern conveniences like telephones or the internet, and Boleslav himself never leaves the town, his rule is essentially unchallenged within its borders.

	Boleslav himself is ludicrously powerful in direct combat, can control the land within the town, and is near-omniscient within its borders. Trick is, though, his power is tied to the townspeople: were they to be ~~provided with a means of escape from the town and~~ shown that there ''is'' a way out, or were they ever to stop fearing him for whatever reason, Boleslav's myth would unravel in seconds.		Boleslav himself is ludicrously powerful in direct combat, can control the land within the town, and is near-omniscient within its borders. Trick is, though, his power is tied to the townspeople: were they to be shown that there ''is'' a way out of the town, or were they ever to stop fearing him for whatever reason, Boleslav's myth would unravel in seconds.

	== Attempts to fix without throwing out the baby alongside the bathwater ==		== Attempts to fix without throwing out the baby alongside the bathwater ==

1d4chan>Newerfag: Undo revision 847611 by Newerfag (talk)

2022-09-18T01:56:47Z

Undo revision 847611 by Newerfag (talk)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:56, 18 September 2022
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	===Talassii===		===Talassii===
	Nightmares of Confinement. They embody fears of being kidnapped, imprisoned, and otherwise held against one's will~~- giant spiders, living prisons, unseen jailers, and so on~~. After an especially unwise brood attempted to re-enact the Rape of the Sabine Women on a band of Heroes, the entire Family got saddled with an Anathema which causes them to be followed with an air of menace that makes people think any Captor they encounter is "out to get them". Naturally, they try to avoid brutalizing or raping their "prisoners" now, which probably causes some problems with the fact that, lore-wise, they're actually cursed to be compulsive rapists though, not that the bitching and self-serving blaming in the book would tell you otherwise... fucking MacFarland. Doesn't really end up mapping easily to a popular monster archetype like the others, so they mostly end up being giant spiders, living prisons, or unseen jailers. Could probably work for folks wanting to be Jigsaw or Leatherface-style slashers...but wouldn't it be easier to just play as a Slasher in that case?		Nightmares of Confinement. They embody fears of being kidnapped, imprisoned, and otherwise held against one's will. After an especially unwise brood attempted to re-enact the Rape of the Sabine Women on a band of Heroes, the entire Family got saddled with an Anathema which causes them to be followed with an air of menace that makes people think any Captor they encounter is "out to get them". Naturally, they try to avoid brutalizing or raping their "prisoners" now, which probably causes some problems with the fact that, lore-wise, they're actually cursed to be compulsive rapists though, not that the bitching and self-serving blaming in the book would tell you otherwise... fucking MacFarland. Doesn't really end up mapping easily to a popular monster archetype like the others, so they mostly end up being giant spiders, living prisons, or unseen jailers. Could probably work for folks wanting to be Jigsaw or Leatherface-style slashers...but wouldn't it be easier to just play as a Slasher in that case?

	===Ugallu===		===Ugallu===

1d4chan>Newerfag: /* Talassii */

2022-09-18T01:56:30Z

Talassii

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:56, 18 September 2022
Line 54:		Line 54:

	===Talassii===		===Talassii===
	Nightmares of Confinement. They embody fears of being kidnapped, imprisoned, and otherwise held against one's will. After an especially unwise brood attempted to re-enact the Rape of the Sabine Women on a band of Heroes, the entire Family got saddled with an Anathema which causes them to be followed with an air of menace that makes people think any Captor they encounter is "out to get them". Naturally, they try to avoid brutalizing or raping their "prisoners" now, which probably causes some problems with the fact that, lore-wise, they're actually cursed to be compulsive rapists though, not that the bitching and self-serving blaming in the book would tell you otherwise... fucking MacFarland. Doesn't really end up mapping easily to a popular monster archetype like the others, so they mostly end up being giant spiders, living prisons, or unseen jailers. Could probably work for folks wanting to be Jigsaw or Leatherface-style slashers...but wouldn't it be easier to just play as a Slasher in that case?		Nightmares of Confinement. They embody fears of being kidnapped, imprisoned, and otherwise held against one's will- giant spiders, living prisons, unseen jailers, and so on. After an especially unwise brood attempted to re-enact the Rape of the Sabine Women on a band of Heroes, the entire Family got saddled with an Anathema which causes them to be followed with an air of menace that makes people think any Captor they encounter is "out to get them". Naturally, they try to avoid brutalizing or raping their "prisoners" now, which probably causes some problems with the fact that, lore-wise, they're actually cursed to be compulsive rapists though, not that the bitching and self-serving blaming in the book would tell you otherwise... fucking MacFarland. Doesn't really end up mapping easily to a popular monster archetype like the others, so they mostly end up being giant spiders, living prisons, or unseen jailers. Could probably work for folks wanting to be Jigsaw or Leatherface-style slashers...but wouldn't it be easier to just play as a Slasher in that case?

	===Ugallu===		===Ugallu===

1d4chan>Ow, My Sanity.: /* Incarnate */

2022-09-14T17:02:47Z

Incarnate

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:02, 14 September 2022
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	*Subvert a Hero's narrative by thoroughly destroying the Hero before he/she can even retaliate (i.e.: engage a Hero in battle, then kill them without suffering any Lethal damage or getting hit with an Anathema).		*Subvert a Hero's narrative by thoroughly destroying the Hero before he/she can even retaliate (i.e.: engage a Hero in battle, then kill them without suffering any Lethal damage or getting hit with an Anathema).
	*Become the Apex of the local Hive and visit their hunger on other Beasts (i.e.: find the most fearsome supernatural in the area, then kill the bastard and make it clear you're their new boss; kick in the heads of anyone who says otherwise until the point is made)		*Become the Apex of the local Hive and visit their hunger on other Beasts (i.e.: find the most fearsome supernatural in the area, then kill the bastard and make it clear you're their new boss; kick in the heads of anyone who says otherwise until the point is made)
	*Spawn a Legend by feeding their Horror in a spectacularly grandiose manner (i.e.: become motherfucking Slenderman).		*Spawn a Legend by feeding their Horror in a spectacularly grandiose manner (i.e.: become motherfucking Slenderman; ensure everyone remembers your name and deeds for years to come.).

	By changing their Legend into a Myth, an Incarnate gains the following powers:		By changing their Legend into a Myth, an Incarnate gains the following powers:
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	*They can enter the Primordial Dream at will.		*They can enter the Primordial Dream at will.
	*They can never become Ravenous or Slumbering, though they still retain the ability to use Satiety and can gain the benefits/drawbacks of high and low Satiety.		*They can never become Ravenous or Slumbering, though they still retain the ability to use Satiety and can gain the benefits/drawbacks of high and low Satiety.
	*Their Life and Legend is replaced by a Myth. However, if they lose control of their Myth, they lose all their Incarnate powers and anybody can place Anathemas on them. Good fucking luck with that when you remember all the shit they can pull.		*Their Life and Legend is replaced by a Myth. However, if they lose control of their Myth, they lose all their Incarnate powers (becoming a regular, if high-power Beast) and anybody can place Anathemas on them. Good fucking luck with that when you remember all the shit they can pull.

			One of the canon examples of this is Boleslav, the Giant King: a sociopathic Anakim who took over his isolated mountain hometown by killing the town's leaders, then confined everyone to the town where they live under his esoteric and extremely harsh rules; since his laws are difficult to comprehend at the best of times and the punishments are usually physical, this essentially gives him a near-limitless supply of victims. Whenever Heroes came to try and stand up to him, he played dumb and lured them into his traps to wear them down, then ripped them apart with his bare hands when they were weakened. As the town lacks any modern conveniences like telephones or the internet, and Boleslav himself never leaves the town, his rule is essentially unchallenged within its borders.

			Boleslav himself is ludicrously powerful in direct combat, can control the land within the town, and is near-omniscient within its borders. Trick is, though, his power is tied to the townspeople: were they to be provided with a means of escape from the town and shown that there ''is'' a way out, or were they ever to stop fearing him for whatever reason, Boleslav's myth would unravel in seconds.

	== Attempts to fix without throwing out the baby alongside the bathwater ==		== Attempts to fix without throwing out the baby alongside the bathwater ==

104.220.162.108 at 11:17, 27 July 2022

2022-07-27T11:17:37Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:17, 27 July 2022
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	But, in a surprising show of self-awareness, Onyx Path actually took the time to respond to the criticisms and began an immediate rewrite of the book to address them, rewriting large portions of the book to be relatively more neutral in tone, though in many cases these rewrites either failed to address the original issues or were exactly the same as the original. And in at least a few cases, "optional interpretations" trying to shoehorn in the original depiction of Beasts were added in an attempt to circumvent the rewrite.		But, in a surprising show of self-awareness, Onyx Path actually took the time to respond to the criticisms and began an immediate rewrite of the book to address them, rewriting large portions of the book to be relatively more neutral in tone, though in many cases these rewrites either failed to address the original issues or were exactly the same as the original. And in at least a few cases, "optional interpretations" trying to shoehorn in the original depiction of Beasts were added in an attempt to circumvent the rewrite.

	In some cases, the rewrite actually made the issues with Beast '''worse''' by attempting to give the Beasts the moral high ground. "They're merely teaching people important lessons through fear, honestly!" is a common refrain through the book, because apparently the only way for someone to become wise is to be constantly scared shitless by nightmare monsters. That that's almost the exact same justification the [[Night Lords]] used, it didn't give them the moral high ground either. And Jigsaw, of the iconic Saw franchise - which looks like one of the foremost Beast's inspirations - may ~~be liked by many a~~ maniac admirers but hardly anyone sane argues ~~him~~ not a villain.		In some cases, the rewrite actually made the issues with Beast '''worse''' by attempting to give the Beasts the moral high ground. "They're merely teaching people important lessons through fear, honestly!" is a common refrain through the book, because apparently the only way for someone to become wise is to be constantly scared shitless by nightmare monsters. That that's almost the exact same justification the [[Night Lords]] used, it didn't give them the moral high ground either. And Jigsaw, of the iconic Saw franchise - which looks like one of the foremost Beast's inspirations - may have maniac admirers but hardly anyone sane argues that he's not a villain.

	The methods of dealing with Hunger suggested by the book ranged from the ludicrously petty to the outright murderous, and the addition of the "Family Dinner" mechanic in which a Beast could sate its hunger just by watching another supernatural being hunt or feed made the double-edged sword that Hunger could have been completely irrelevant.		The methods of dealing with Hunger suggested by the book ranged from the ludicrously petty to the outright murderous, and the addition of the "Family Dinner" mechanic in which a Beast could sate its hunger just by watching another supernatural being hunt or feed made the double-edged sword that Hunger could have been completely irrelevant.