Blood War - Revision history

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1d4chan>Nubnuber at 21:20, 7 November 2021

2021-11-07T21:20:56Z

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	The Blood War is a piece of [[Dungeons & Dragons]] lore that originated from the [[Planescape]] setting. It's [[Michael Moorcock]]'s conflict between Law and Chaos, but quarantined to the fiends in the lower planes. The [[Baatezu]] ([[devil]]s) represent Law; the [[Tanar'ri]] ([[demon]]s) chaos, and everyone else down there exploits or avoids both sides. Like most wars, and like all evils, the Blood War cannot be entirely quarantined so it taints even angels if they are dumb enough to involve themselves.		[[File:bloodwar crossfire.jpg\|thumb\|600px\|Some poor bloods caught in the middle of the Blood War.]]
			The '''Blood War''' is a piece of [[Dungeons & Dragons]] lore that originated from the [[Planescape]] setting. It's [[Michael Moorcock]]'s conflict between Law and Chaos, but quarantined to the fiends in the lower planes. The [[Baatezu]] ([[devil]]s) represent Law; the [[Tanar'ri]] ([[demon]]s) chaos, and everyone else down there exploits or avoids both sides. Like most wars, and like all evils, the Blood War cannot be entirely quarantined so it taints even angels if they are dumb enough to involve themselves.

	==In AD&D==		==In AD&D==

1d4chan>Nubnuber: /* In Pathfinder */

2021-10-08T00:14:49Z

In Pathfinder

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:14, 8 October 2021
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	The last involves the chaotic Proteans, who are trying to dissolve the Abyss into the Maelstrom (the only plane rivaling it in size) believing its creation or opening into the rest of the multiverse to be caused by their mistake. Proteans warred with first the Qlippoth (the first great planar war, before any other planes besides the Maelstrom and Abyss spun out of the Maelstrom and into existence) and now the Demons. The Proteans spend about as much effort facing the [[Inevitable]]s of the aggressively expansionist lawful plane of Axis, so they're not able to focus fully on either fight.		The last involves the chaotic Proteans, who are trying to dissolve the Abyss into the Maelstrom (the only plane rivaling it in size) believing its creation or opening into the rest of the multiverse to be caused by their mistake. Proteans warred with first the Qlippoth (the first great planar war, before any other planes besides the Maelstrom and Abyss spun out of the Maelstrom and into existence) and now the Demons. The Proteans spend about as much effort facing the [[Inevitable]]s of the aggressively expansionist lawful plane of Axis, so they're not able to focus fully on either fight.

	The one area Demon vs. Devil ''does'' come up in Golarion is in the devil controlled nation of Cheliax. There is it categorized merely as devils keeping hold on their power: Demons are merely a third party trying to take power from the Devils and must die because of that. A handful of mentions of state sponsored demon hunters exist, but virtually no information is given on them. Cheliax actually wants the World Wound, a planar rift spewing out Demons, to stay open since it means all the crusaders, paladins and good aligned clerics that would otherwise oppose the Devil run country go there to die instead.		The one area Demon vs. Devil ''does'' come up in Golarion is in the devil controlled nation of Cheliax. There it is categorized merely as devils keeping hold on their power: Demons are merely a third party trying to take power from the Devils and must die because of that. A handful of mentions of state sponsored demon hunters exist, but virtually no information is given on them. Cheliax actually wants the World Wound, a planar rift spewing out Demons, to stay open since it means all the crusaders, paladins and good aligned clerics that would otherwise oppose the Devil run country go there to die instead.

	==Elsewhere==		==Elsewhere==

1d4chan>Zimriel at 23:37, 22 May 2021

2021-05-22T23:37:14Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:37, 22 May 2021
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	The Blood War is a piece of [[Dungeons & Dragons]] lore that originated from the [[Planescape]] setting. It ~~is a~~ conflict between the [[Tanar'ri]] ~~and the~~ [[~~Baatezu~~]], ~~otherwise known as "demons"~~ and ~~"devils" respectfully~~. ~~The~~ Blood War ~~traditionally spans the entire multiverse, ensnaring everything directly or indirectly in its path~~.		The Blood War is a piece of [[Dungeons & Dragons]] lore that originated from the [[Planescape]] setting. It's [[Michael Moorcock]]'s conflict between Law and Chaos, but quarantined to the fiends in the lower planes. The [[Baatezu]] ([[devil]]s) represent Law; the [[Tanar'ri]] ([[demon]]s) chaos, and everyone else down there exploits or avoids both sides. Like most wars, and like all evils, the Blood War cannot be entirely quarantined so it taints even angels if they are dumb enough to involve themselves.

	==In AD&D==		==In AD&D==

24.100.37.199: /* In Pathfinder */

2020-11-10T22:23:46Z

In Pathfinder

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:23, 10 November 2020
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	Secondly, Daemons - Pathfinder's equivalent of Yugoloths, the "Neutral Evil fiends" - are characterised as omnicidal maniacs. They want to annihilate ''everything'' living, including ultimately themselves. As both demons and devils have no interest in killing literally everyone, they don't get on with daemons. At all. They will team up with each other and ''FUCKING CELESTIALS'' to stop Daemons from eating the river of souls they all use.		Secondly, Daemons - Pathfinder's equivalent of Yugoloths, the "Neutral Evil fiends" - are characterised as omnicidal maniacs. They want to annihilate ''everything'' living, including ultimately themselves. As both demons and devils have no interest in killing literally everyone, they don't get on with daemons. At all. They will team up with each other and ''FUCKING CELESTIALS'' to stop Daemons from eating the river of souls they all use.

	The last involves the chaotic Proteans, who are trying to dissolve the Abyss into the Maelstrom (the only plane rivaling it in size) believing ~~it's~~ creation or opening into the rest of the multiverse to be caused by their mistake. Proteans warred with first the Qlippoth (the first great planar war, before any other planes besides the Maelstrom and Abyss spun out of the Maelstrom and into existence) and now the Demons. The Proteans spend about as much effort facing the [[Inevitable]]s of the aggressively expansionist lawful plane of Axis, so they're not able to focus fully on either fight.		The last involves the chaotic Proteans, who are trying to dissolve the Abyss into the Maelstrom (the only plane rivaling it in size) believing its creation or opening into the rest of the multiverse to be caused by their mistake. Proteans warred with first the Qlippoth (the first great planar war, before any other planes besides the Maelstrom and Abyss spun out of the Maelstrom and into existence) and now the Demons. The Proteans spend about as much effort facing the [[Inevitable]]s of the aggressively expansionist lawful plane of Axis, so they're not able to focus fully on either fight.

	The one area Demon vs. Devil ''does'' come up in Golarion is in the devil controlled nation of Cheliax. There is it categorized merely as devils keeping hold on their power: Demons are merely a third party trying to take power from the Devils and must die because of that. A handful of mentions of state sponsored demon hunters exist, but virtually no information is given on them. Cheliax actually wants the World Wound, a planar rift spewing out Demons, to stay open since it means all the crusaders, paladins and good aligned clerics that would otherwise oppose the Devil run country go there to die instead.		The one area Demon vs. Devil ''does'' come up in Golarion is in the devil controlled nation of Cheliax. There is it categorized merely as devils keeping hold on their power: Demons are merely a third party trying to take power from the Devils and must die because of that. A handful of mentions of state sponsored demon hunters exist, but virtually no information is given on them. Cheliax actually wants the World Wound, a planar rift spewing out Demons, to stay open since it means all the crusaders, paladins and good aligned clerics that would otherwise oppose the Devil run country go there to die instead.

78.19.238.219 at 04:04, 28 August 2020

2020-08-28T04:04:20Z

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	The Blood War has always been a contentious aspect of the overall meta-setting. Support for it has only increased as the editions have advanced and pushed Planescape further and further out of the spotlight; fans have developed nostalgia for the concept. While there have always been individuals who disliked it (some thought it was ridiculously oversold as a setting element, some thought it was a real one-trick plot hook) a ''lot'' disliked the emphasis on the Blood War because it really made the cosmic forces of good seem like useless pushovers incapable of fighting evil themselves. Many hated it because it tended to take over the story whenever it got introduced.		The Blood War has always been a contentious aspect of the overall meta-setting. Support for it has only increased as the editions have advanced and pushed Planescape further and further out of the spotlight; fans have developed nostalgia for the concept. While there have always been individuals who disliked it (some thought it was ridiculously oversold as a setting element, some thought it was a real one-trick plot hook) a ''lot'' disliked the emphasis on the Blood War because it really made the cosmic forces of good seem like useless pushovers incapable of fighting evil themselves. Many hated it because it tended to take over the story whenever it got introduced.

	Complicating things is the secret mastermind of the cosmic stalemate [[Asmodeus]], king of the devils himself. This asshole wants the war to continue, as he is just using the whole thing as one huge distraction. Asmodeus is actually a decoy/avatar/persona created in order to give the illusion that the ruler of hell was a devil of near-godlike power, and thus ''less threatening'' ~~than the true ruler, Ahriman. Ahriman~~ is one of the twin serpents who created the planes, most likely older and more powerful than the gods themselves. If the good and probably even neutral gods knew what he really was, they'd first shit themselves and then immediately team up to wreck his shit forever. In his prime he might be a match for them, but the catch is that he's [[Not as Planned\|terribly injured]] from his fight with his lawful good equivalent long ago, and he needs to hide for as long as it takes to heal.		Complicating things is the secret mastermind of the cosmic stalemate [[Asmodeus]], king of the devils himself. This asshole wants the war to continue, as he is just using the whole thing as one huge distraction. Asmodeus is actually a decoy/avatar/persona created in order to give the illusion that the ruler of hell was a devil of near-godlike power, and thus ''less threatening'' Asmodeus is one of the twin serpents who created the planes, most likely older and more powerful than the gods themselves. If the good and probably even neutral gods knew what he really was, they'd first shit themselves and then immediately team up to wreck his shit forever which would of course unmake the universe. In his prime he might be a match for them, but the catch is that he's [[Not as Planned\|terribly injured]] from his fight with his lawful good equivalent long ago, and he needs to hide for as long as it takes to heal.

			However the big catch is the blood war not as even as it might appear. If not for asmodeus directly causing the devils to fight in the blood war the demons would have destroyed the entire multiverse a long time ago as the demons are truly an infinite force of chaos. So Asmodeus not only does not want to win the war until he has healed his injuries from his fall but cannot lose the war for fear than everything would be destroyed. And if any of the gods of good were to intervene in the Blood war they would become corrupted so only the devils can keep the abyss in check.

	So the most conniving devil in hell, who is also the ruler of hell, doesn't actually want to win his own war. Combine this with the complicity of the upper planes and the fact that the Yugoloths almost certainly want the War to stay in a stalemate so they can keep getting paid, and you have almost every power in the multiverse secretly conspiring to keep the Blood War going forever. Status quo is god with the Blood War, but there's a damn good (and evil) reason for it. This also creates the truly bizarre situation where basically the only side doing the right thing are the psychotically evil demons. But that's a stretch of logic too taut to put consideration on.		So the most conniving devil in hell, who is also the ruler of hell, doesn't actually want to win his own war. Combine this with the complicity of the upper planes and the fact that the Yugoloths almost certainly want the War to stay in a stalemate so they can keep getting paid, and you have almost every power in the multiverse secretly conspiring to keep the Blood War going forever. Status quo is god with the Blood War, but there's a damn good (and evil) reason for it. This also creates the truly bizarre situation where basically the only side doing the right thing are the psychotically evil demons. But that's a stretch of logic too taut to put consideration on.

1d4chan>Zzedar: /* In 4e */

2020-08-09T12:00:37Z

In 4e

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:00, 9 August 2020
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	4e did a lot of cosmological changes, and the Blood War was one of them.		4e did a lot of cosmological changes, and the Blood War was one of them.

	In 4e, the Blood War is ~~sheered~~ of its [[Alignment]]-fueled rationale. Instead, the Blood War is fought for a simpler reason. Demons want to destroy everything. Devils want to conquer everything. Naturally, the two goals are incompatible. Adding fuel to the Blood War is the fact that [[Asmodeus]] became the God of Sin through stealing a shard of the Heart of the Abyss, the force that created all demons. Naturally, they're kind of pissed off about this, while the devils want to steal the rest of it and become even more powerful.		In 4e, the Blood War is shorn of its [[Alignment]]-fueled rationale. Instead, the Blood War is fought for a simpler reason. Demons want to destroy everything. Devils want to conquer everything. Naturally, the two goals are incompatible. Adding fuel to the Blood War is the fact that [[Asmodeus]] became the God of Sin through stealing a shard of the Heart of the Abyss, the force that created all demons. Naturally, they're kind of pissed off about this, while the devils want to steal the rest of it and become even more powerful.

	More dramatically, the Blood War in 4e officially goes through a cycle of hot and cold war; the demons and devils fight reality-shaking battles in which trillions of outsiders and souls are utterly destroyed over centuries of endless war, then the fury dies down to more manageable levels as they rebuild their home planes and their ranks before starting it up again. This probably wouldn't piss off as many people as it does were it not for the fact that the books are officially written under the presumption that it's currently in one of its cold phases, though DMs are given full reign to have it go hot again in '''their''' campaign.		More dramatically, the Blood War in 4e officially goes through a cycle of hot and cold war; the demons and devils fight reality-shaking battles in which trillions of outsiders and souls are utterly destroyed over centuries of endless war, then the fury dies down to more manageable levels as they rebuild their home planes and their ranks before starting it up again. This probably wouldn't piss off as many people as it does were it not for the fact that the books are officially written under the presumption that it's currently in one of its cold phases, though DMs are given full reign to have it go hot again in '''their''' campaign.

1d4chan>SpectralTime: /* In 4e */

2020-08-02T06:33:04Z

In 4e

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:33, 2 August 2020
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	==In 4e==		==In 4e==
	4e did a lot of cosmological changes, and the Blood War was one of them~~. Whilst the [[Planescape]] [[grognard]]s found it especially galling, most fans actually liked it better~~.		4e did a lot of cosmological changes, and the Blood War was one of them.

	In 4e, the Blood War is sheered of its [[Alignment]]-fueled rationale. Instead, the Blood War is fought for a simpler reason. Demons want to destroy everything. Devils want to conquer everything. Naturally, the two goals are incompatible. Adding fuel to the Blood War is the fact that [[Asmodeus]] became the God of Sin through stealing a shard of the Heart of the Abyss, the force that created all demons. Naturally, they're kind of pissed off about this, while the devils want to steal the rest of it and become even more powerful.		In 4e, the Blood War is sheered of its [[Alignment]]-fueled rationale. Instead, the Blood War is fought for a simpler reason. Demons want to destroy everything. Devils want to conquer everything. Naturally, the two goals are incompatible. Adding fuel to the Blood War is the fact that [[Asmodeus]] became the God of Sin through stealing a shard of the Heart of the Abyss, the force that created all demons. Naturally, they're kind of pissed off about this, while the devils want to steal the rest of it and become even more powerful.

1d4chan>Zimriel at 19:14, 25 June 2020

2020-06-25T19:14:49Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:14, 25 June 2020
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	So the most conniving devil in hell, who is also the ruler of hell, doesn't actually want to win his own war. Combine this with the complicity of the upper planes and the fact that the Yugoloths almost certainly want the War to stay in a stalemate so they can keep getting paid, and you have almost every power in the multiverse secretly conspiring to keep the Blood War going forever. Status quo is god with the Blood War, but there's a damn good (and evil) reason for it. This also creates the truly bizarre situation where basically the only side doing the right thing are the psychotically evil demons. But that's a stretch of logic too taut to put consideration on.		So the most conniving devil in hell, who is also the ruler of hell, doesn't actually want to win his own war. Combine this with the complicity of the upper planes and the fact that the Yugoloths almost certainly want the War to stay in a stalemate so they can keep getting paid, and you have almost every power in the multiverse secretly conspiring to keep the Blood War going forever. Status quo is god with the Blood War, but there's a damn good (and evil) reason for it. This also creates the truly bizarre situation where basically the only side doing the right thing are the psychotically evil demons. But that's a stretch of logic too taut to put consideration on.

			There's a whole boxed set for this in Planescape: [[Hellbound: The Blood War]]. Not for the faint of heart.

	==In 3.x==		==In 3.x==
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	The one area Demon vs. Devil ''does'' come up in Golarion is in the devil controlled nation of Cheliax. There is it categorized merely as devils keeping hold on their power: Demons are merely a third party trying to take power from the Devils and must die because of that. A handful of mentions of state sponsored demon hunters exist, but virtually no information is given on them. Cheliax actually wants the World Wound, a planar rift spewing out Demons, to stay open since it means all the crusaders, paladins and good aligned clerics that would otherwise oppose the Devil run country go there to die instead.		The one area Demon vs. Devil ''does'' come up in Golarion is in the devil controlled nation of Cheliax. There is it categorized merely as devils keeping hold on their power: Demons are merely a third party trying to take power from the Devils and must die because of that. A handful of mentions of state sponsored demon hunters exist, but virtually no information is given on them. Cheliax actually wants the World Wound, a planar rift spewing out Demons, to stay open since it means all the crusaders, paladins and good aligned clerics that would otherwise oppose the Devil run country go there to die instead.

			==Elsewhere==
			[[Talislanta]] has its own version, where "Oblivion" and "the Demonrealms" meet.

	[[Category:Dungeons & Dragons]][[Category:Planescape]][[Category:Pathfinder]]		[[Category:Dungeons & Dragons]][[Category:Planescape]][[Category:Pathfinder]]