Chaotic Stupid - Revision history

imported>Administrator: 55 revisions imported

2023-06-20T15:04:30Z

55 revisions imported

← Older revision	Revision as of 15:04, 20 June 2023
(No difference)

imported>Administrator: 1 revision imported

2023-06-18T21:50:16Z

1 revision imported

← Older revision	Revision as of 21:50, 18 June 2023
(No difference)

2600:1700:19C0:2760:1579:19EC:F839:AA at 00:14, 3 January 2021

2021-01-03T00:14:25Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:14, 3 January 2021
Line 2:		Line 2:
	''"I drop my trousers and piss on the king!"''		''"I drop my trousers and piss on the king!"''
	[[File:OregonTrail_Hard_Mode.jpg\|300px\|right\|thumb\|[[Quest:Oregon Trail\|Ford the river? Nah, get this thing up to 88 mph and there'll be a bridge.]]]]		[[File:OregonTrail_Hard_Mode.jpg\|300px\|right\|thumb\|[[Quest:Oregon Trail\|Ford the river? Nah, get this thing up to 88 mph and there'll be a bridge.]]]]
	'''Chaotic Stupid''' is yet another of the "stupid" ~~[[alignment~~]]s. Where [[Lawful Stupid]] characters adhere to a restrictive code of conduct beyond the point of reason, Chaotic Stupid [[character]]s are marked by their refusal to abide by any kind of code whatsoever, even when it would be reasonable to do so. Some Chaotic Stupid characters take this even further, and will actively break whatever the local laws and customs are, because "I'm chaotic, tee hee!" Another common symptom is mistaking "chaotic" for "whatever random action pops into my head", leading to the synonym of ''randumb''. This provides a criterion for distinguishing Chaotic Stupid from [[Stupid Evil]] -- a Stupid Evil character will take actions to cause harm, while a Chaotic Stupid character will just act out for the hell of it.
			'''Chaotic Stupid''' is yet another of the [[Stupid Alignments\|"stupid" alignments]]. Where [[Lawful Stupid]] characters adhere to a restrictive code of conduct beyond the point of reason, Chaotic Stupid [[character]]s are marked by their refusal to abide by any kind of code whatsoever, even when it would be reasonable to do so. Some Chaotic Stupid characters take this even further, and will actively break whatever the local laws and customs are, because "I'm chaotic, tee hee!"

			Another common symptom is mistaking "chaotic" for "whatever random action pops into my head", leading to the synonym of ''randumb''. This provides a criterion for distinguishing Chaotic Stupid from [[Stupid Evil]] -- a Stupid Evil character will take actions to cause harm, while a Chaotic Stupid character will just act out for the hell of it.

	Much as Lawful Stupid is inescapably linked to the [[paladin]] [[class]], Chaotic Stupid is one of the stereotypical bad ways to play [[rogue]]s.		Much as Lawful Stupid is inescapably linked to the [[paladin]] [[class]], Chaotic Stupid is one of the stereotypical bad ways to play [[rogue]]s.
Line 8:		Line 11:
	== Examples ==		== Examples ==
	* '''[[/b/]]'''		* '''[[/b/]]'''
	* '''[[Kender]].''' They are "Chaotic Stupid: The Species", as they steal anything that isn't nailed down or touch anything that takes their fancy, and then have the temerity to giggle and act cute about it if things go wrong.		* '''[[Kender]].''' They are "Chaotic Stupid: The Species", as they steal anything that isn't nailed down or touch anything that takes their fancy, and then have the temerity to giggle and act cute about it if things go wrong.
	* The [[Xaositects]] of [[Planescape]] are a social faction dedicated to the philosophy that there is no purpose to the multiverse besides pure chaotic whim, so don't make plans and just do whatever the hell you feel like. In other words, a group for whom Chaotic Stupid is basically the ''explicitly recommended course''. ~~Tend~~ to attract hate from DMs only matched by Kender.		* The [[Xaositects]] of [[Planescape]] are a social faction dedicated to the philosophy that there is no purpose to the multiverse besides pure chaotic whim, so don't make plans and just do whatever the hell you feel like. In other words, a group for whom Chaotic Stupid is basically the ''explicitly recommended course''. They tend to attract hate from DMs only matched by Kender.
	* In a rare example of Chaotic Stupid not being a totally bad thing, the forces of [[Chaos]] in [[Warhammer 40,000]] can exhibit some of this when their own chaotic natures cause them to fight among themselves and collapse any army that threatens the status quo. This in turn keeps the galaxy at large from being ''completely'' fucked (only mostly). With that said, sometimes GW takes this a [[Firaeveus Carron\|little]] [[Lord Bale\|too]] [[Crull\|far]].		* In a rare example of Chaotic Stupid not being a totally bad thing, the forces of [[Chaos]] in [[Warhammer 40,000]] can exhibit some of this when their own chaotic natures cause them to fight among themselves and collapse any army that threatens the status quo. This in turn keeps the galaxy at large from being ''completely'' fucked (only mostly). With that said, sometimes GW takes this a [[Firaeveus Carron\|little]] [[Lord Bale\|too]] [[Crull\|far]].
	* Similarly, the [[Orks]] (and the [[Orcs and Goblins]] of [[Warhammer Fantasy Battle]]). The Orks in particular also have the benefit of being specifically designed as war machines, and [[Not As Planned\|their creators were taken out before they could enact some form of fail-safe.]]		* Similarly, the [[Orks]] (and the [[Orcs and Goblins]] of [[Warhammer Fantasy Battle]]). The Orks in particular also have the benefit of being specifically designed as war machines, and [[Not As Planned\|their creators were taken out before they could enact some form of fail-safe.]]
Line 27:		Line 30:

	==How to be Chaotic and Stupid without being Chaotic Stupid==		==How to be Chaotic and Stupid without being Chaotic Stupid==
	[[What\|Yes, it actually is possible to be Chaotic and Stupid without being Chaotic Stupid.]] An excellent example of how to play such a character is Elan from [[Order of the Stick]]. Elan is a ~~braindamaged~~ fool with a childish innocence who constantly misunderstands situations, but he ''usually'' does not do illogical things just for the sake of being chaotic or random or for other poor excuses like typical Chaotic Stupid characters. Although he is chaotic-aligned, he doesn't have to constantly make chaotic choices to the point of stupidity, and ~~his stupidity mainly causes him to misunderstand or~~ [[fail]] ~~at things. On the occasions when he does do something that would be Chaotic Stupid, it usually is because he misunderstood something~~. For the same reasons, he also completely avoids being [[Stupid Good]] as well; he does not do stupid things just because they are good. Over the course of the story, he also becomes more mature and shows that he actually can make smart decisions, although he still often misunderstands things.		[[What\|Yes, it actually is possible to be Chaotic and Stupid without being Chaotic Stupid.]] An excellent example of how to play such a character is Elan from [[Order of the Stick]]. Elan is a brain-damaged fool with a childish innocence who constantly misunderstands situations, but he ''usually'' does not do illogical things just for the sake of being chaotic or random or for other poor excuses like typical Chaotic Stupid characters. Although he is chaotic-aligned, he doesn't have to constantly make chaotic choices to the point of stupidity, and [[fail]]ures or misunderstandings are rooted in his aforementioned mental condition. For the same reasons, he also completely avoids being [[Stupid Good]] as well; he does not do stupid things just because they are good. Over the course of the story, he also becomes more mature and shows that he actually can make smart decisions, although he still often misunderstands things.

	[[Category:Dungeons & Dragons]][[Category:Alignment]]		[[Category:Dungeons & Dragons]][[Category:Alignment]][[Category:Stupid Alignments]]

2406:3400:20F:FFC0:1010:5EFB:8CEB:91F5 at 14:32, 30 December 2020

2020-12-30T14:32:10Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:32, 30 December 2020
Line 8:		Line 8:
	== Examples ==		== Examples ==
	* '''[[/b/]]'''		* '''[[/b/]]'''
	* '''[[Kender]].''' They are "Chaotic Stupid: The Species", as they steal anything that isn't nailed down, and then have the temerity to giggle and act cute about it.		* '''[[Kender]].''' They are "Chaotic Stupid: The Species", as they steal anything that isn't nailed down or touch anything that takes their fancy, and then have the temerity to giggle and act cute about it if things go wrong.
	* The [[Xaositects]] of [[Planescape]] are a social faction dedicated to the philosophy that there is no purpose to the multiverse besides pure chaotic whim, so don't make plans and just do whatever the hell you feel like. In other words, a group for whom Chaotic Stupid is basically the ''explicitly recommended course''. Tend to attract hate from DMs only matched by Kender.		* The [[Xaositects]] of [[Planescape]] are a social faction dedicated to the philosophy that there is no purpose to the multiverse besides pure chaotic whim, so don't make plans and just do whatever the hell you feel like. In other words, a group for whom Chaotic Stupid is basically the ''explicitly recommended course''. Tend to attract hate from DMs only matched by Kender.
	* In a rare example of Chaotic Stupid not being a totally bad thing, the forces of [[Chaos]] in [[Warhammer 40,000]] can exhibit some of this when their own chaotic natures cause them to fight among themselves and collapse any army that threatens the status quo. This in turn keeps the galaxy at large from being ''completely'' fucked (only mostly). With that said, sometimes GW takes this a [[Firaeveus Carron\|little]] [[Lord Bale\|too]] [[Crull\|far]].		* In a rare example of Chaotic Stupid not being a totally bad thing, the forces of [[Chaos]] in [[Warhammer 40,000]] can exhibit some of this when their own chaotic natures cause them to fight among themselves and collapse any army that threatens the status quo. This in turn keeps the galaxy at large from being ''completely'' fucked (only mostly). With that said, sometimes GW takes this a [[Firaeveus Carron\|little]] [[Lord Bale\|too]] [[Crull\|far]].
	* Similarly, the [[Orks]] (and the [[Orcs and Goblins]] of [[Warhammer Fantasy Battle]]). The Orks in particular also have the benefit of being specifically designed as war machines, and [[Not As Planned\|~~wasted~~ their creators before they could enact some form of fail-safe.]]		* Similarly, the [[Orks]] (and the [[Orcs and Goblins]] of [[Warhammer Fantasy Battle]]). The Orks in particular also have the benefit of being specifically designed as war machines, and [[Not As Planned\|their creators were taken out before they could enact some form of fail-safe.]]
	* [[/co/\|Deadpool]] of Marvel comics post-Liefield, but he has a good excuse in that he's ''completely insane'' from <s>brain</s> '''everything''' cancer. He also subverts this many times, and occasionally manages to be actually funny, plus being almost unkillable explains how he ~~survives the~~ negative consequences of his actions.		* [[/co/\|Deadpool]] of Marvel comics post-Liefield, but he has a good excuse in that he's ''completely insane'' from <s>brain</s> '''everything''' cancer. He also subverts this many times, and occasionally manages to be actually funny, plus being almost unkillable explains how he endures any negative consequences of his actions.
	* Second edition AD&D described Chaotic Neutral ''exactly'' like this. Seriously. Third edition had to specifically revoke this description, making it similar to the problem of [[Stupid Neutral]].		* Second edition AD&D described Chaotic Neutral ''exactly'' like this. Seriously. Third edition had to specifically revoke this description, making it similar to the problem of [[Stupid Neutral]].
	* Malkavians in ''[[Vampire: The Masquerade]]'' are prone to being played like this because every member of the clan is driven irreparably and uniquely insane upon being turned into a vampire. This has led to the term "Fishmalks" originating within the community, after one particularly infamous Malkavian PC and art where one was kissing a fish.		* Malkavians in ''[[Vampire: The Masquerade]]'' are prone to being played like this because every member of the clan is driven irreparably and uniquely insane upon being turned into a vampire. This has led to the term "Fishmalks" originating within the community, after one particularly infamous Malkavian PC and art where one was kissing a fish.

1d4chan>LGX-000 at 01:25, 24 October 2020

2020-10-24T01:25:12Z

1d4chan>HussarZwei at 00:57, 21 October 2020

2020-10-21T00:57:50Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:57, 21 October 2020
Line 1:		Line 1:
			{{fail}}
	''"I drop my trousers and piss on the king!"''		''"I drop my trousers and piss on the king!"''
	[[File:OregonTrail_Hard_Mode.jpg\|300px\|right\|thumb\|[[Quest:Oregon Trail\|Ford the river? Nah, get this thing up to 88 mph and there'll be a bridge.]]]]		[[File:OregonTrail_Hard_Mode.jpg\|300px\|right\|thumb\|[[Quest:Oregon Trail\|Ford the river? Nah, get this thing up to 88 mph and there'll be a bridge.]]]]
Line 6:		Line 7:

	== Examples ==		== Examples ==
			* '''[[/b/]]'''
	* '''[[Kender]].''' They are "Chaotic Stupid: The Species", as they steal anything that isn't nailed down, and then have the temerity to giggle and act cute about it.		* '''[[Kender]].''' They are "Chaotic Stupid: The Species", as they steal anything that isn't nailed down, and then have the temerity to giggle and act cute about it.
	* The [[Xaositects]] of [[Planescape]] are a social faction dedicated to the philosophy that there is no purpose to the multiverse besides pure chaotic whim, so don't make plans and just do whatever the hell you feel like. In other words, a group for whom Chaotic Stupid is basically the ''explicitly recommended course''. Tend to attract hate from DMs only matched by Kender.		* The [[Xaositects]] of [[Planescape]] are a social faction dedicated to the philosophy that there is no purpose to the multiverse besides pure chaotic whim, so don't make plans and just do whatever the hell you feel like. In other words, a group for whom Chaotic Stupid is basically the ''explicitly recommended course''. Tend to attract hate from DMs only matched by Kender.
Line 23:		Line 25:
	Littlefinger from Song of Ice & Fire is a good example of a chaotic figure who isn't stupid (although he does eventually get done in by his web of lies). A chaotic figure who isn't stupid should be inscrutable, playing their cards close and leaving people guessing about their actual motives and who's side they're really on. This of course gets back to the problem of orthogonality mentioned before, because a person who's inscrutable is liable to be selfish and thus "evil" (like Littlefinger, who on the surface appears lawful evil). But this can be addressed with a bit of moral relativism, making the chaotic selfish for "their side" rather than "themselves". Ultimately the important aspect for chaotic is to be, well... Chaotic. Extreme. Willing to casually kill to fix what could be solved with words, willing to steal what could be afforded, all because it's expedient and because they can.		Littlefinger from Song of Ice & Fire is a good example of a chaotic figure who isn't stupid (although he does eventually get done in by his web of lies). A chaotic figure who isn't stupid should be inscrutable, playing their cards close and leaving people guessing about their actual motives and who's side they're really on. This of course gets back to the problem of orthogonality mentioned before, because a person who's inscrutable is liable to be selfish and thus "evil" (like Littlefinger, who on the surface appears lawful evil). But this can be addressed with a bit of moral relativism, making the chaotic selfish for "their side" rather than "themselves". Ultimately the important aspect for chaotic is to be, well... Chaotic. Extreme. Willing to casually kill to fix what could be solved with words, willing to steal what could be afforded, all because it's expedient and because they can.

	== How to be Chaotic and Stupid without being Chaotic Stupid ==		== How to be Chaotic and Stupid without being Chaotic Stupid (yes it is possible)==
	It actually is possible to be Chaotic and Stupid without being Chaotic Stupid. An excellent example of how to play such a character is Elan from [[Order of the Stick]]. Elan is a braindamaged fool with a childish innocence who constantly misunderstands situations but he ''usually'' does not do illogical things just for the sake of being chaotic or random or for other poor excuses like typical Chaotic Stupid characters. Although he is chaotic aligned, he doesn't have to constantly make chaotic choices to the point of stupidity, and his stupidity mainly causes him to misunderstand things or [[Fail]] at things. On the occasions when he does do something that would be Chaotic Stupid, it usually is because he misunderstood something. For the same reasons, he also completely avoids being [[Stupid Good]] as well. He does not do stupid things just because they are good. Over the course of the story, he also becomes more mature and shows that he actually can make smart decisions, although he still often misunderstands things.		It actually is possible to be Chaotic and Stupid without being Chaotic Stupid. An excellent example of how to play such a character is Elan from [[Order of the Stick]]. Elan is a braindamaged fool with a childish innocence who constantly misunderstands situations but he ''usually'' does not do illogical things just for the sake of being chaotic or random or for other poor excuses like typical Chaotic Stupid characters. Although he is chaotic aligned, he doesn't have to constantly make chaotic choices to the point of stupidity, and his stupidity mainly causes him to misunderstand things or [[Fail]] at things. On the occasions when he does do something that would be Chaotic Stupid, it usually is because he misunderstood something. For the same reasons, he also completely avoids being [[Stupid Good]] as well. He does not do stupid things just because they are good. Over the course of the story, he also becomes more mature and shows that he actually can make smart decisions, although he still often misunderstands things.

	[[Category:Dungeons & Dragons]][[Category:Alignment]]		[[Category:Dungeons & Dragons]][[Category:Alignment]]

1d4chan>Piroko at 13:58, 25 September 2020

2020-09-25T13:58:11Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:58, 25 September 2020
Line 1:		Line 1:
	''"I drop my trousers and piss on the king!"''		''"I drop my trousers and piss on the king!"''
	[[File:OregonTrail_Hard_Mode.jpg\|300px\|right\|thumb\|Ford the river? Nah, get this thing up to 88 mph and there'll be a bridge.]]		[[File:OregonTrail_Hard_Mode.jpg\|300px\|right\|thumb\|[[Quest:Oregon Trail\|Ford the river? Nah, get this thing up to 88 mph and there'll be a bridge.]]]]
	'''Chaotic Stupid''' is yet another of the "stupid" [[alignment]]s. Where [[Lawful Stupid]] characters adhere to a restrictive code of conduct beyond the point of reason, Chaotic Stupid [[character]]s are marked by their refusal to abide by any kind of code whatsoever, even when it would be reasonable to do so. Some Chaotic Stupid characters take this even further, and will actively break whatever the local laws and customs are, because "I'm chaotic, tee hee!" Another common symptom is mistaking "chaotic" for "whatever random action pops into my head", leading to the synonym of ''randumb''. This provides a criterion for distinguishing Chaotic Stupid from [[Stupid Evil]] -- a Stupid Evil character will take actions to cause harm, while a Chaotic Stupid character will just act out for the hell of it.		'''Chaotic Stupid''' is yet another of the "stupid" [[alignment]]s. Where [[Lawful Stupid]] characters adhere to a restrictive code of conduct beyond the point of reason, Chaotic Stupid [[character]]s are marked by their refusal to abide by any kind of code whatsoever, even when it would be reasonable to do so. Some Chaotic Stupid characters take this even further, and will actively break whatever the local laws and customs are, because "I'm chaotic, tee hee!" Another common symptom is mistaking "chaotic" for "whatever random action pops into my head", leading to the synonym of ''randumb''. This provides a criterion for distinguishing Chaotic Stupid from [[Stupid Evil]] -- a Stupid Evil character will take actions to cause harm, while a Chaotic Stupid character will just act out for the hell of it.

1d4chan>Piroko at 04:55, 25 September 2020

2020-09-25T04:55:24Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:55, 25 September 2020
Line 1:		Line 1:
	''"I drop my trousers and piss on the king!"''		''"I drop my trousers and piss on the king!"''
	[[File:OregonTrail_Hard_Mode.jpg\|300px\|right]]		[[File:OregonTrail_Hard_Mode.jpg\|300px\|right\|thumb\|Ford the river? Nah, get this thing up to 88 mph and there'll be a bridge.]]
	'''Chaotic Stupid''' is yet another of the "stupid" [[alignment]]s. Where [[Lawful Stupid]] characters adhere to a restrictive code of conduct beyond the point of reason, Chaotic Stupid [[character]]s are marked by their refusal to abide by any kind of code whatsoever, even when it would be reasonable to do so. Some Chaotic Stupid characters take this even further, and will actively break whatever the local laws and customs are, because "I'm chaotic, tee hee!" Another common symptom is mistaking "chaotic" for "whatever random action pops into my head", leading to the synonym of ''randumb''. This provides a criterion for distinguishing Chaotic Stupid from [[Stupid Evil]] -- a Stupid Evil character will take actions to cause harm, while a Chaotic Stupid character will just act out for the hell of it.		'''Chaotic Stupid''' is yet another of the "stupid" [[alignment]]s. Where [[Lawful Stupid]] characters adhere to a restrictive code of conduct beyond the point of reason, Chaotic Stupid [[character]]s are marked by their refusal to abide by any kind of code whatsoever, even when it would be reasonable to do so. Some Chaotic Stupid characters take this even further, and will actively break whatever the local laws and customs are, because "I'm chaotic, tee hee!" Another common symptom is mistaking "chaotic" for "whatever random action pops into my head", leading to the synonym of ''randumb''. This provides a criterion for distinguishing Chaotic Stupid from [[Stupid Evil]] -- a Stupid Evil character will take actions to cause harm, while a Chaotic Stupid character will just act out for the hell of it.

1d4chan>Piroko at 04:52, 25 September 2020

2020-09-25T04:52:12Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:52, 25 September 2020
Line 1:		Line 1:
	''"I drop my trousers and piss on the king!"''		''"I drop my trousers and piss on the king!"''
			[[File:OregonTrail_Hard_Mode.jpg\|300px\|right]]
	'''Chaotic Stupid''' is yet another of the "stupid" [[alignment]]s. Where [[Lawful Stupid]] characters adhere to a restrictive code of conduct beyond the point of reason, Chaotic Stupid [[character]]s are marked by their refusal to abide by any kind of code whatsoever, even when it would be reasonable to do so. Some Chaotic Stupid characters take this even further, and will actively break whatever the local laws and customs are, because "I'm chaotic, tee hee!" Another common symptom is mistaking "chaotic" for "whatever random action pops into my head", leading to the synonym of ''randumb''. This provides a criterion for distinguishing Chaotic Stupid from [[Stupid Evil]] -- a Stupid Evil character will take actions to cause harm, while a Chaotic Stupid character will just act out for the hell of it.		'''Chaotic Stupid''' is yet another of the "stupid" [[alignment]]s. Where [[Lawful Stupid]] characters adhere to a restrictive code of conduct beyond the point of reason, Chaotic Stupid [[character]]s are marked by their refusal to abide by any kind of code whatsoever, even when it would be reasonable to do so. Some Chaotic Stupid characters take this even further, and will actively break whatever the local laws and customs are, because "I'm chaotic, tee hee!" Another common symptom is mistaking "chaotic" for "whatever random action pops into my head", leading to the synonym of ''randumb''. This provides a criterion for distinguishing Chaotic Stupid from [[Stupid Evil]] -- a Stupid Evil character will take actions to cause harm, while a Chaotic Stupid character will just act out for the hell of it.

1d4chan>Piroko: Undo revision 698414 by Piroko (talk)

2020-09-15T01:08:43Z

Undo revision 698414 by Piroko (talk)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:08, 15 September 2020
Line 20:		Line 20:

	As far as that Lawful Neutral (and hopefully not stupid) guy in the party? Remember, you can find something to like about that character too. We're past the days where alignments only hung around with each other. Make a friend. Don't be uptight about chaos. It's not like you're forbidden by a code of conduct to have lawful friends, right?		As far as that Lawful Neutral (and hopefully not stupid) guy in the party? Remember, you can find something to like about that character too. We're past the days where alignments only hung around with each other. Make a friend. Don't be uptight about chaos. It's not like you're forbidden by a code of conduct to have lawful friends, right?

	~~{{topquote\|I did warn you not to trust me.\|Littlefinger}}~~

	Littlefinger from Song of Ice & Fire is a good example of a chaotic figure who isn't stupid (although he does eventually get done in by his web of lies). A chaotic figure who isn't stupid should be inscrutable, playing their cards close and leaving people guessing about their actual motives and who's side they're really on. This of course gets back to the problem of orthogonality mentioned before, because a person who's inscrutable is liable to be selfish and thus "evil" (like Littlefinger, who on the surface appears lawful evil). But this can be addressed with a bit of moral relativism, making the chaotic selfish for "their side" rather than "themselves". Ultimately the important aspect for chaotic is to be, well... Chaotic. Extreme. Willing to casually kill to fix what could be solved with words, willing to steal what could be afforded, all because it's expedient and because they can.		Littlefinger from Song of Ice & Fire is a good example of a chaotic figure who isn't stupid (although he does eventually get done in by his web of lies). A chaotic figure who isn't stupid should be inscrutable, playing their cards close and leaving people guessing about their actual motives and who's side they're really on. This of course gets back to the problem of orthogonality mentioned before, because a person who's inscrutable is liable to be selfish and thus "evil" (like Littlefinger, who on the surface appears lawful evil). But this can be addressed with a bit of moral relativism, making the chaotic selfish for "their side" rather than "themselves". Ultimately the important aspect for chaotic is to be, well... Chaotic. Extreme. Willing to casually kill to fix what could be solved with words, willing to steal what could be afforded, all because it's expedient and because they can.

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:25, 24 October 2020
Line 10:		Line 10:
	* '''[[Kender]].''' They are "Chaotic Stupid: The Species", as they steal anything that isn't nailed down, and then have the temerity to giggle and act cute about it.		* '''[[Kender]].''' They are "Chaotic Stupid: The Species", as they steal anything that isn't nailed down, and then have the temerity to giggle and act cute about it.
	* The [[Xaositects]] of [[Planescape]] are a social faction dedicated to the philosophy that there is no purpose to the multiverse besides pure chaotic whim, so don't make plans and just do whatever the hell you feel like. In other words, a group for whom Chaotic Stupid is basically the ''explicitly recommended course''. Tend to attract hate from DMs only matched by Kender.		* The [[Xaositects]] of [[Planescape]] are a social faction dedicated to the philosophy that there is no purpose to the multiverse besides pure chaotic whim, so don't make plans and just do whatever the hell you feel like. In other words, a group for whom Chaotic Stupid is basically the ''explicitly recommended course''. Tend to attract hate from DMs only matched by Kender.
	* In a rare example of Chaotic Stupid not being a totally bad thing, [[Chaos]] ~~and the [[Orks]] from~~ [[Warhammer 40,000]] ~~(and the [[Orcs and Goblins]] of [[Warhammer Fantasy Battle]])~~ can exhibit some of this when their own chaotic natures cause them to fight among themselves and collapse any army that threatens the status quo. With that said sometimes GW takes this a [[Firaeveus Carron\|little]] [[Lord Bale\|too]] [[Crull\|far]].		* In a rare example of Chaotic Stupid not being a totally bad thing, the forces of [[Chaos]] in [[Warhammer 40,000]] can exhibit some of this when their own chaotic natures cause them to fight among themselves and collapse any army that threatens the status quo. This in turn keeps the galaxy at large from being ''completely'' fucked (only mostly). With that said, sometimes GW takes this a [[Firaeveus Carron\|little]] [[Lord Bale\|too]] [[Crull\|far]].
	* ~~Also~~ Deadpool, but he has a good excuse in that he's ''completely insane'' from <s>brain</s> '''everything''' cancer. He also subverts this many times~~. Plus~~ being almost unkillable explains how he survives the negative consequences of his actions.		* Similarly, the [[Orks]] (and the [[Orcs and Goblins]] of [[Warhammer Fantasy Battle]]). The Orks in particular also have the benefit of being specifically designed as war machines, and [[Not As Planned\|wasted their creators before they could enact some form of fail-safe.]]
			* [[/co/\|Deadpool]] of Marvel comics post-Liefield, but he has a good excuse in that he's ''completely insane'' from <s>brain</s> '''everything''' cancer. He also subverts this many times, and occasionally manages to be actually funny, plus being almost unkillable explains how he survives the negative consequences of his actions.
	* Second edition AD&D described Chaotic Neutral ''exactly'' like this. Seriously. Third edition had to specifically revoke this description, making it similar to the problem of [[Stupid Neutral]].		* Second edition AD&D described Chaotic Neutral ''exactly'' like this. Seriously. Third edition had to specifically revoke this description, making it similar to the problem of [[Stupid Neutral]].
	* Malkavians in [[Vampire: The Masquerade]] are prone to being played like this because every member of the clan is driven irreparably and uniquely insane upon being turned into a vampire. This has led to the term "Fishmalks" in the community, after one particularly infamous Malkavian PC and art where one was kissing a fish.		* Malkavians in ''[[Vampire: The Masquerade]]'' are prone to being played like this because every member of the clan is driven irreparably and uniquely insane upon being turned into a vampire. This has led to the term "Fishmalks" originating within the community, after one particularly infamous Malkavian PC and art where one was kissing a fish.
	* Olive Ruskettle, a female [[halfling]] thief from the [[Forgotten Realms]]. She stole the name of a famous bard so she could try and usurp his reputation, despite the fact she's a [[rogue]] and not a bard (and is in fact described as being "too chaotic to become one"!), feels that "any constraints are too many", dislikes and enjoys picking on anyone who holds strong but narrow beliefs and views (Lawful alignment, devout religious or moral codes, etc), with a particular dislike of [[paladin]]s, and is generally ~~stated~~ as being irrepressible, impetuous, and completely lacking in foresight.		* Olive Ruskettle, a female [[halfling]] thief from the [[Forgotten Realms]]. She stole the name of a famous bard so she could try and usurp his reputation, despite the fact she's a [[rogue]] and not a bard (and is in fact described as being "too chaotic to become one"!), feels that "any constraints are too many", dislikes and enjoys picking on anyone who holds strong but narrow beliefs and views (Lawful alignment, devout religious or moral codes, etc. with a particular dislike of [[paladin]]s), and is generally described as being irrepressible, impetuous, and completely lacking in foresight.
	* "[[Penguin of Doom\|Katy t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m]]", the supposed author of an old (first seen 2006 or so) [[4chan]] [[copypasta]].		* "[[Penguin of Doom\|Katy t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m]]", the supposed author of an old (first seen 2006 or so) [[4chan]] [[copypasta]].
	* Charlie Kelly from ~~Its~~ Always Sunny in Philadelphia, specifically the episode "The Gang Solves the Gas Crisis". Upon being told that he was the "wild card" of the gang, he uses this role as a justification for increasingly erratic behavior, culminating in him cutting the brakes of the van they were in for no other reason than "Wild Card, bitches!"		* Charlie Kelly from [[/tv/\|''It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia'']], specifically the episode "The Gang Solves the Gas Crisis". Upon being told that he was the "wild card" of the gang, he uses this role as a justification for increasingly erratic behavior, culminating in him cutting the brakes of the van they were in for no other reason than "Wild Card, bitches!"

	== How to be Chaotic without being Stupid ==		==How to be Chaotic without being Stupid==
	As any alignment thread on /tg/ will show you, defining the "Lawful/Chaotic" axis in a way that is totally orthogonal to "Good/Evil" is very tricky. There is also the matter that any sane character will have some internal code of conduct, so it is not possible to define Lawful as "follows some laws, any laws" and Chaotic as "follows no laws whatsoever". One potentially useful interpretation of that axis that can avoid stupidity or strawmen is to think of Lawful as emphasizing working "by-the-book" for the whole (with the nature of that book separating Lawful Good from Lawful Evil), and Chaotic as emphasizing individual freedom to achieve one's own desires (with the nature of those desires separating Chaotic Good from Chaotic Evil). A way to be Chaotic without being Stupid, therefore, is to determine the character's goals, and have them achieve those goals by whatever method they think is best. This might mean following the rules, if playing nice with the Paladin to stay out of jail is a prerequisite for that goal, but if breaking a few laws is what it takes, then so be it.		As any alignment thread on /tg/ will show you, defining the "Lawful/Chaotic" axis in a way that is totally orthogonal to "Good/Evil" is very tricky. There is also the matter that any sane character will have some internal code of conduct, so it is not possible to define Lawful as "follows some laws, any laws" and Chaotic as "follows no laws whatsoever". One potentially useful interpretation of that axis that can avoid stupidity or strawmen is to think of Lawful as emphasizing working "by-the-book" for the whole (with the nature of that book separating Lawful Good from Lawful Evil), and Chaotic as emphasizing individual freedom to achieve one's own desires (with the nature of those desires separating Chaotic Good from Chaotic Evil). A way to be Chaotic without being Stupid, therefore, is to determine the character's goals, and have them achieve those goals by whatever method they think is best. This might mean following the rules, if playing nice with the Paladin to stay out of jail is a prerequisite for that goal, but if breaking a few laws is what it takes, then so be it.

	As far as that Lawful Neutral (and hopefully not stupid) guy in the party? Remember, you can find something to like about that character too. We're past the days where alignments only hung around with each other. Make a friend. Don't be uptight about chaos. It's not like you're forbidden by a code of conduct to have lawful friends, right?		As far as that Lawful Neutral (and hopefully not stupid) guy in the party? Remember, you can find something to like about that character too. We're past the days where alignments only hung around with each other. Make a friend. Don't be uptight about chaos. It's not like you're forbidden by a code of conduct to have lawful friends, right?

	Littlefinger from Song of Ice & Fire is a good example of a chaotic figure who isn't stupid (although he does eventually get done in by his web of lies). A chaotic figure who isn't stupid should be inscrutable, playing their cards close and leaving people guessing about their actual motives and who's side they're really on. This of course gets back to the problem of orthogonality mentioned before, because a person who's inscrutable is liable to be selfish and thus "evil" (like Littlefinger, who on the surface appears ~~lawful evil~~). But this can be addressed with a bit of moral relativism, making the chaotic selfish for "their side" rather than "themselves". Ultimately the important aspect for chaotic is to be, well... Chaotic. Extreme. Willing to casually kill to fix what could be solved with words, willing to steal what could be afforded, all because it's expedient and because they can.		Littlefinger from Song of Ice & Fire is a good example of a chaotic figure who isn't stupid (although he does eventually get done in by his web of lies). A chaotic figure who isn't stupid should be inscrutable, playing their cards close and leaving people guessing about their actual motives and who's side they're really on. This of course gets back to the problem of orthogonality mentioned before, because a person who's inscrutable is liable to be selfish and thus "evil" (like Littlefinger, who on the surface appears Lawful Evil). But this can be addressed with a bit of moral relativism, making the chaotic selfish for "their side" rather than "themselves". Ultimately the important aspect for chaotic is to be, well... Chaotic. Extreme. Willing to casually kill to fix what could be solved with words, willing to steal what could be afforded, all because it's expedient and because they can.

	== How to be Chaotic and Stupid without being Chaotic Stupid ~~(yes it is possible)~~==		==How to be Chaotic and Stupid without being Chaotic Stupid==
	It actually is possible to be Chaotic and Stupid without being Chaotic Stupid. An excellent example of how to play such a character is Elan from [[Order of the Stick]]. Elan is a braindamaged fool with a childish innocence who constantly misunderstands situations but he ''usually'' does not do illogical things just for the sake of being chaotic or random or for other poor excuses like typical Chaotic Stupid characters. Although he is chaotic aligned, he doesn't have to constantly make chaotic choices to the point of stupidity, and his stupidity mainly causes him to misunderstand ~~things~~ or [[~~Fail~~]] at things. On the occasions when he does do something that would be Chaotic Stupid, it usually is because he misunderstood something. For the same reasons, he also completely avoids being [[Stupid Good]] as well~~. He~~ does not do stupid things just because they are good. Over the course of the story, he also becomes more mature and shows that he actually can make smart decisions, although he still often misunderstands things.		[[What\|Yes, it actually is possible to be Chaotic and Stupid without being Chaotic Stupid.]] An excellent example of how to play such a character is Elan from [[Order of the Stick]]. Elan is a braindamaged fool with a childish innocence who constantly misunderstands situations, but he ''usually'' does not do illogical things just for the sake of being chaotic or random or for other poor excuses like typical Chaotic Stupid characters. Although he is chaotic-aligned, he doesn't have to constantly make chaotic choices to the point of stupidity, and his stupidity mainly causes him to misunderstand or [[fail]] at things. On the occasions when he does do something that would be Chaotic Stupid, it usually is because he misunderstood something. For the same reasons, he also completely avoids being [[Stupid Good]] as well; he does not do stupid things just because they are good. Over the course of the story, he also becomes more mature and shows that he actually can make smart decisions, although he still often misunderstands things.

	[[Category:Dungeons & Dragons]][[Category:Alignment]]		[[Category:Dungeons & Dragons]][[Category:Alignment]]