Charisma - Revision history

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1d4chan>SpectralTime at 21:56, 25 October 2021

2021-10-25T21:56:37Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:56, 25 October 2021
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	The iconic Charisma-based class in D&D is the [[Bard]]. He turned out to be annoying so later we got the [[Sorcerer_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)\|Sorcerer]] (as of 3rd edition), an inexhaustible source of [[skub]]. Both were frequently ruled out of d20 settings and/or tweaked into unrecognisability. 4e floated the [[Warlock]]. Here and there is the [[Paladin]], if one focuses on the latter's [[gish]] status.		The iconic Charisma-based class in D&D is the [[Bard]]. He turned out to be annoying so later we got the [[Sorcerer_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)\|Sorcerer]] (as of 3rd edition), an inexhaustible source of [[skub]]. Both were frequently ruled out of d20 settings and/or tweaked into unrecognisability. 4e floated the [[Warlock]]. Here and there is the [[Paladin]], if one focuses on the latter's [[gish]] status.

	Charisma is most infamous for its unpopularity: it is the most common [[dump stat]] in the six-score system, especially in Third Edition. Even if you're not playing a melee martial class, or using strength-based skills like climb and swim, strength is still useful for lifting and smashing stuff. Even if you're not playing a Ranger or Rogue, or using dex-based skills like balance and hide, dexterity still helps with initiative, armor, and reflex saves. Not making Concentration checks often? Constitution still boosts hit points and fortitude saves. Not a wizard or psion? Intelligence still increases your bonus languages known and skill points earned per level. Not a divine caster or making a spot/listen check? Wisdom still boosts will saves. But charisma? Charisma doesn't do a ''goddamn fucking thing'' unless your class says so or you're using a skill that keys off of it.		Charisma is most infamous for its unpopularity: it is the most common [[dump stat]] in the six-score system, especially in Third Edition. Even if you're not playing a melee martial class, or using strength-based skills like climb and swim, strength is still useful for lifting and smashing stuff. Even if you're not playing a Ranger or Rogue, or using dex-based skills like balance and hide, dexterity still helps with initiative, armor, and reflex saves. Not making Concentration checks often? Constitution still boosts hit points and fortitude saves. Not a wizard or psion? Intelligence still increases your bonus languages known and skill points earned per level. Not a divine caster or making a spot/listen check? Wisdom still boosts will saves. But charisma? Charisma doesn't do a ''goddamn fucking thing'' unless your class says so or you're using a skill that keys off of it. Other editions have similar problems, but Third Edition assigning secondary functions to ''every'' other stat (and making the bonuses from high stats and penalties for low stats linear rather than concentrated at the ends) exacerbated them. Notably, both successive editions made changes to make Charisma a more-attractive choices of stat focus.

	CHA also suffers from a rather contradictory nature in that it's never been quite clear what it's supposed to come from. Most people tend to assume it relates to physical looks; after all, NPCs with high charisma tend to be depicted as gorgeous (for example, [[nymph]]s), whilst low charisma races tend to be ugly and monstrous ([[orc]]s, [[ogre]]s, etc). However, D&D has always claimed that Charisma is more of a strong personality and "natural presence" than anything directly relating to beauty, with many dangerous but imposing monsters having high Charisma and ugly looks, such as dragons, aboleths, and mind flayers.		CHA also suffers from a rather contradictory nature in that it's never been quite clear what it's supposed to come from. Most people tend to assume it relates to physical looks; after all, NPCs with high charisma tend to be depicted as gorgeous (for example, [[nymph]]s), whilst low charisma races tend to be ugly and monstrous ([[orc]]s, [[ogre]]s, etc). However, D&D has always claimed that Charisma is more of a strong personality and "natural presence" than anything directly relating to beauty, with many dangerous but imposing monsters having high Charisma and ugly looks, such as dragons, aboleths, and mind flayers.

	In fact, [[Gygax]] himself tried to address this, introducing the never-took-off seventh ability score, Comeliness, in [[Dragon Magazine]] #67 specifically to create a separate "beauty stat". It... didn't work out so well. Neither did [[Book of Erotic Fantasy#Gameplay tips\| subsequent attempts]].		In fact, [[Gygax]] himself tried to address this, introducing the never-took-off seventh ability score, Comeliness, in [[Dragon Magazine]] #67 specifically to create a separate "beauty stat". It... didn't work out so well. Neither did [[Book of Erotic Fantasy#Gameplay tips\| subsequent attempts]].

1d4chan>SpectralTime at 21:54, 25 October 2021

2021-10-25T21:54:44Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:54, 25 October 2021
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	The iconic Charisma-based class in D&D is the [[Bard]]. He turned out to be annoying so later we got the [[Sorcerer_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)\|Sorcerer]] (as of 3rd edition), an inexhaustible source of [[skub]]. Both were frequently ruled out of d20 settings and/or tweaked into unrecognisability. 4e floated the [[Warlock]]. Here and there is the [[Paladin]], if one focuses on the latter's [[gish]] status.		The iconic Charisma-based class in D&D is the [[Bard]]. He turned out to be annoying so later we got the [[Sorcerer_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)\|Sorcerer]] (as of 3rd edition), an inexhaustible source of [[skub]]. Both were frequently ruled out of d20 settings and/or tweaked into unrecognisability. 4e floated the [[Warlock]]. Here and there is the [[Paladin]], if one focuses on the latter's [[gish]] status.

	~~==Why it sucks==~~		Charisma is most infamous for its unpopularity: it is the most common [[dump stat]] in the six-score system, especially in Third Edition. Even if you're not playing a melee martial class, or using strength-based skills like climb and swim, strength is still useful for lifting and smashing stuff. Even if you're not playing a Ranger or Rogue, or using dex-based skills like balance and hide, dexterity still helps with initiative, armor, and reflex saves. Not making Concentration checks often? Constitution still boosts hit points and fortitude saves. Not a wizard or psion? Intelligence still increases your bonus languages known and skill points earned per level. Not a divine caster or making a spot/listen check? Wisdom still boosts will saves. But charisma? Charisma doesn't do a ''goddamn fucking thing'' unless your class says so or you're using a skill that keys off of it.

	Charisma is most ~~popular in~~ its unpopularity: it is the common [[dump stat]] in the six-score system, especially in Third Edition. Even if you're not playing a melee martial class, or using strength-based skills like climb and swim, strength is still useful for lifting and smashing stuff. Even if you're not playing a Ranger or Rogue, or using dex-based skills like balance and hide, dexterity still helps with initiative, armor, and reflex saves. Not making Concentration checks often? Constitution still boosts hit points and fortitude saves. Not a wizard or psion? Intelligence still increases your bonus languages known and skill points earned per level. Not a divine caster or making a spot/listen check? Wisdom still boosts will saves. But charisma? Charisma doesn't do a ''goddamn fucking thing'' unless your class says so or you're using a skill that keys off of it.

	CHA also suffers from a rather contradictory nature in that it's never been quite clear what it's supposed to come from. Most people tend to assume it relates to physical looks; after all, NPCs with high charisma tend to be depicted as gorgeous (for example, [[nymph]]s), whilst low charisma races tend to be ugly and monstrous ([[orc]]s, [[ogre]]s, etc). However, D&D has always claimed that Charisma is more of a strong personality and "natural presence" than anything directly relating to beauty, with many dangerous but imposing monsters having high Charisma and ugly looks, such as dragons, aboleths, and mind flayers.		CHA also suffers from a rather contradictory nature in that it's never been quite clear what it's supposed to come from. Most people tend to assume it relates to physical looks; after all, NPCs with high charisma tend to be depicted as gorgeous (for example, [[nymph]]s), whilst low charisma races tend to be ugly and monstrous ([[orc]]s, [[ogre]]s, etc). However, D&D has always claimed that Charisma is more of a strong personality and "natural presence" than anything directly relating to beauty, with many dangerous but imposing monsters having high Charisma and ugly looks, such as dragons, aboleths, and mind flayers.

1d4chan>SpectralTime: /* Why it sucks */

2021-10-25T21:54:15Z

Why it sucks

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:54, 25 October 2021
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	==Why it sucks==		==Why it sucks==

	Charisma is most popular in its unpopularity: it is the common [[dump stat]] in the six-score system~~. This is because it is useless~~. Even if you're not playing a melee martial class, or using strength-based skills like climb and swim, strength is still useful for lifting and smashing stuff. Even if you're not playing a Ranger or Rogue, or using dex-based skills like balance and hide, dexterity still helps with initiative, armor, and reflex saves. Not making Concentration checks often? Constitution still boosts hit points and fortitude saves. Not a wizard or psion? Intelligence still increases your bonus languages known and skill points earned per level. Not a divine caster or making a spot/listen check? Wisdom still boosts will saves. But charisma? Charisma doesn't do a ''goddamn fucking thing'' unless your class says so or you're using a skill that keys off of it.		Charisma is most popular in its unpopularity: it is the common [[dump stat]] in the six-score system, especially in Third Edition. Even if you're not playing a melee martial class, or using strength-based skills like climb and swim, strength is still useful for lifting and smashing stuff. Even if you're not playing a Ranger or Rogue, or using dex-based skills like balance and hide, dexterity still helps with initiative, armor, and reflex saves. Not making Concentration checks often? Constitution still boosts hit points and fortitude saves. Not a wizard or psion? Intelligence still increases your bonus languages known and skill points earned per level. Not a divine caster or making a spot/listen check? Wisdom still boosts will saves. But charisma? Charisma doesn't do a ''goddamn fucking thing'' unless your class says so or you're using a skill that keys off of it.

	CHA also suffers from a rather contradictory nature in that it's never been quite clear what it's supposed to come from. Most people tend to assume it relates to physical looks; after all, NPCs with high charisma tend to be depicted as gorgeous (for example, [[nymph]]s), whilst low charisma races tend to be ugly and monstrous ([[orc]]s, [[ogre]]s, etc). However, D&D has always claimed that Charisma is more of a strong personality and "natural presence" than anything directly relating to beauty, with many dangerous but imposing monsters having high Charisma and ugly looks, such as dragons, aboleths, and mind flayers.		CHA also suffers from a rather contradictory nature in that it's never been quite clear what it's supposed to come from. Most people tend to assume it relates to physical looks; after all, NPCs with high charisma tend to be depicted as gorgeous (for example, [[nymph]]s), whilst low charisma races tend to be ugly and monstrous ([[orc]]s, [[ogre]]s, etc). However, D&D has always claimed that Charisma is more of a strong personality and "natural presence" than anything directly relating to beauty, with many dangerous but imposing monsters having high Charisma and ugly looks, such as dragons, aboleths, and mind flayers.

73.70.13.107 at 12:10, 24 October 2021

2021-10-24T12:10:42Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:10, 24 October 2021
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	The iconic Charisma-based class in D&D is the [[Bard]]. He turned out to be annoying so later we got the [[Sorcerer_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)\|Sorcerer]] (as of 3rd edition), an inexhaustible source of [[skub]]. Both were frequently ruled out of d20 settings and/or tweaked into unrecognisability. 4e floated the [[Warlock]]. Here and there is the [[Paladin]], if one focuses on the latter's [[gish]] status.		The iconic Charisma-based class in D&D is the [[Bard]]. He turned out to be annoying so later we got the [[Sorcerer_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)\|Sorcerer]] (as of 3rd edition), an inexhaustible source of [[skub]]. Both were frequently ruled out of d20 settings and/or tweaked into unrecognisability. 4e floated the [[Warlock]]. Here and there is the [[Paladin]], if one focuses on the latter's [[gish]] status.

	==~~Uncharismatic Charisma~~==		==Why it sucks==
	Charisma is most popular in its unpopularity: it is the common [[dump stat]] in the six-score system. Poorly-experienced players just don't know what to do with it; and weak-willed DMs can't evangelise it to their players.

	CHA suffers from a rather contradictory nature in that it's never been quite clear what it's supposed to come from. Most people tend to assume it relates to physical looks; after all, NPCs with high charisma tend to be depicted as gorgeous (for example, [[nymph]]s), whilst low charisma races tend to be ugly and monstrous ([[orc]]s, [[ogre]]s, etc). However, D&D has always claimed that Charisma is more of a strong personality and "natural presence" than anything directly relating to beauty, with many dangerous but imposing monsters having high Charisma and ugly looks, such as dragons, aboleths, and mind flayers.		Charisma is most popular in its unpopularity: it is the common [[dump stat]] in the six-score system. This is because it is useless. Even if you're not playing a melee martial class, or using strength-based skills like climb and swim, strength is still useful for lifting and smashing stuff. Even if you're not playing a Ranger or Rogue, or using dex-based skills like balance and hide, dexterity still helps with initiative, armor, and reflex saves. Not making Concentration checks often? Constitution still boosts hit points and fortitude saves. Not a wizard or psion? Intelligence still increases your bonus languages known and skill points earned per level. Not a divine caster or making a spot/listen check? Wisdom still boosts will saves. But charisma? Charisma doesn't do a ''goddamn fucking thing'' unless your class says so or you're using a skill that keys off of it.

			CHA also suffers from a rather contradictory nature in that it's never been quite clear what it's supposed to come from. Most people tend to assume it relates to physical looks; after all, NPCs with high charisma tend to be depicted as gorgeous (for example, [[nymph]]s), whilst low charisma races tend to be ugly and monstrous ([[orc]]s, [[ogre]]s, etc). However, D&D has always claimed that Charisma is more of a strong personality and "natural presence" than anything directly relating to beauty, with many dangerous but imposing monsters having high Charisma and ugly looks, such as dragons, aboleths, and mind flayers.

	In fact, [[Gygax]] himself tried to address this, introducing the never-took-off seventh ability score, Comeliness, in [[Dragon Magazine]] #67 specifically to create a separate "beauty stat". It... didn't work out so well. Neither did [[Book of Erotic Fantasy#Gameplay tips\| subsequent attempts]].		In fact, [[Gygax]] himself tried to address this, introducing the never-took-off seventh ability score, Comeliness, in [[Dragon Magazine]] #67 specifically to create a separate "beauty stat". It... didn't work out so well. Neither did [[Book of Erotic Fantasy#Gameplay tips\| subsequent attempts]].

1d4chan>Zimriel at 23:43, 11 August 2021

2021-08-11T23:43:13Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:43, 11 August 2021
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	'''Charisma''' is one of the six [[Ability Scores]] used in [[Dungeons & Dragons]], alongside [[Strength]], [[Dexterity]], [[Constitution]], [[Intelligence]] and [[Wisdom]].		'''Charisma''' is one of the six [[Ability Scores]] used in [[Dungeons & Dragons]], alongside [[Strength]], [[Dexterity]], [[Constitution]], [[Intelligence]] and [[Wisdom]].

	Of the six stats, Charisma is the "Social" stat; its traditional use is to govern interactions with NPCs - the higher your Charisma, the better your chance of appealing to them or manipulating their emotions. Skills like Persuasion, Bluff, Intimidate, Deception, Diplomacy and so forth may cover direct skill at eliciting the desired result over the various editions, but they all key off of your Charisma, and a low Charisma makes you suffer penalties to succeeding, just as a high Charisma increases your chance of success.		Of the six stats, Charisma is the "Social" stat; its traditional use is to govern interactions with NPCs - the higher your Charisma, the better your chance of appealing to them or manipulating their emotions. Skills like Persuasion, Bluff, Intimidate, Deception, Diplomacy and so forth may cover direct skill at eliciting the desired result over the various editions, but they all key off of your Charisma, and a low Charisma makes you suffer penalties to succeeding, just as a high Charisma increases your chance of success. It's also been (belatedly) recognised as the Alpha Male stat - correlated with sheer willpower. One of the things [[Dungeons_%26_Dragons_4th_Edition\|4th Edition]] did (arguably) right was to suggest CHA for a bonus to Will saves, rather than WIS.

	Because of its intended nature, Charisma is thusly one of the "mental" stats of D&D.		Because of its intended nature, Charisma is thusly one of the "mental" stats of D&D.

	CHA should come into its own in wargaming, which [[BATTLESYSTEM]] recognised. If only more gamers played it. Also, as a mental stat, it's used as a power source for certain spellcasting creatures or classes. Charisma-based spellcraft tends to reflect instinctive or inherent magical abilities; the caster doesn't study hard (Int) or use mental discipline and faith (WIS) for their power, it comes from within and is directed by sheer will.		CHA should come into its own in wargaming, which [[BATTLESYSTEM]] recognised. If only more gamers played it. Also, as a mental stat, it's used as a power source for certain spellcasting creatures or classes. Charisma-based spellcraft tends to reflect instinctive or inherent magical abilities; the caster doesn't study hard (Int) or use mental discipline and faith (WIS) for their power, it comes from within and is directed by sheer will.

	One of the things [[Dungeons_%26_Dragons_4th_Edition\|4th Edition]] did (arguably) right was to suggest CHA for a bonus to Will saves, rather than WIS. In this case, [[X12: Skarda's Mirror]] serves as a cautionary-tale on what happens if you dump-stat this and then struggle against the last thoughts of a dying ''god''. (As BXCMI stands, it's his WIS 13 which doomed poor little Mallek.)

	The iconic Charisma-based class in D&D is the [[Bard]]. He turned out to be annoying so later we got the [[Sorcerer_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)\|Sorcerer]] (as of 3rd edition), an inexhaustible source of [[skub]]. Both were frequently ruled out of d20 settings and/or tweaked into unrecognisability. 4e floated the [[Warlock]]. Here and there is the [[Paladin]], if one focuses on the latter's [[gish]] status.		The iconic Charisma-based class in D&D is the [[Bard]]. He turned out to be annoying so later we got the [[Sorcerer_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)\|Sorcerer]] (as of 3rd edition), an inexhaustible source of [[skub]]. Both were frequently ruled out of d20 settings and/or tweaked into unrecognisability. 4e floated the [[Warlock]]. Here and there is the [[Paladin]], if one focuses on the latter's [[gish]] status.

1d4chan>Zimriel at 22:15, 11 August 2021

2021-08-11T22:15:07Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:15, 11 August 2021
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	CHA should come into its own in wargaming, which [[BATTLESYSTEM]] recognised. If only more gamers played it. Also, as a mental stat, it's used as a power source for certain spellcasting creatures or classes. Charisma-based spellcraft tends to reflect instinctive or inherent magical abilities; the caster doesn't study hard (Int) or use mental discipline and faith (WIS) for their power, it comes from within and is directed by sheer will.		CHA should come into its own in wargaming, which [[BATTLESYSTEM]] recognised. If only more gamers played it. Also, as a mental stat, it's used as a power source for certain spellcasting creatures or classes. Charisma-based spellcraft tends to reflect instinctive or inherent magical abilities; the caster doesn't study hard (Int) or use mental discipline and faith (WIS) for their power, it comes from within and is directed by sheer will.

	One of the things 4th Edition did (arguably) right was to suggest CHA for a bonus to Will saves, rather than WIS. In this case, [[X12: Skarda's Mirror]] serves as a cautionary-tale on what happens if you dump-stat this and then struggle against the last thoughts of a dying ''god''. (As BXCMI stands, it's his WIS 13 which doomed poor little Mallek.)		One of the things [[Dungeons_%26_Dragons_4th_Edition\|4th Edition]] did (arguably) right was to suggest CHA for a bonus to Will saves, rather than WIS. In this case, [[X12: Skarda's Mirror]] serves as a cautionary-tale on what happens if you dump-stat this and then struggle against the last thoughts of a dying ''god''. (As BXCMI stands, it's his WIS 13 which doomed poor little Mallek.)

	The iconic Charisma-based class in D&D is the [[Bard]]. He turned out to be annoying so later we got the [[Sorcerer_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)\|Sorcerer]] (as of 3rd edition), an inexhaustible source of [[skub]]. Both were frequently ruled out of d20 settings and/or tweaked into unrecognisability. 4e floated the [[Warlock]]. Here and there is the [[Paladin]], if one focuses on the latter's [[gish]] status.		The iconic Charisma-based class in D&D is the [[Bard]]. He turned out to be annoying so later we got the [[Sorcerer_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)\|Sorcerer]] (as of 3rd edition), an inexhaustible source of [[skub]]. Both were frequently ruled out of d20 settings and/or tweaked into unrecognisability. 4e floated the [[Warlock]]. Here and there is the [[Paladin]], if one focuses on the latter's [[gish]] status.

1d4chan>Zimriel at 22:14, 11 August 2021

2021-08-11T22:14:08Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:14, 11 August 2021
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	Because of its intended nature, Charisma is thusly one of the "mental" stats of D&D.		Because of its intended nature, Charisma is thusly one of the "mental" stats of D&D.

	CHA should come into its own in wargaming, which [[BATTLESYSTEM]] recognised. If only more gamers played it. Also, as a mental stat, it's used as a power source for certain spellcasting creatures or classes. Charisma-based spellcraft tends to reflect instinctive or inherent magical abilities; the caster doesn't study hard (Int) or use mental discipline and faith (~~Wis~~) for their power, it comes from within and is directed by sheer will.		CHA should come into its own in wargaming, which [[BATTLESYSTEM]] recognised. If only more gamers played it. Also, as a mental stat, it's used as a power source for certain spellcasting creatures or classes. Charisma-based spellcraft tends to reflect instinctive or inherent magical abilities; the caster doesn't study hard (Int) or use mental discipline and faith (WIS) for their power, it comes from within and is directed by sheer will.

	The iconic Charisma-based class in D&D is the [[Bard]]. He turned out to be annoying so later we got the [[Sorcerer_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)\|Sorcerer]] (as of 3rd edition), an inexhaustible source of [[skub]]. Both were frequently ruled out of d20 settings and/or tweaked into unrecognisability. ~~4th edition~~ floated the [[Warlock]]. Here and there is the [[Paladin]], if one focuses on the latter's [[gish]] status.		One of the things 4th Edition did (arguably) right was to suggest CHA for a bonus to Will saves, rather than WIS. In this case, [[X12: Skarda's Mirror]] serves as a cautionary-tale on what happens if you dump-stat this and then struggle against the last thoughts of a dying ''god''. (As BXCMI stands, it's his WIS 13 which doomed poor little Mallek.)

			The iconic Charisma-based class in D&D is the [[Bard]]. He turned out to be annoying so later we got the [[Sorcerer_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)\|Sorcerer]] (as of 3rd edition), an inexhaustible source of [[skub]]. Both were frequently ruled out of d20 settings and/or tweaked into unrecognisability. 4e floated the [[Warlock]]. Here and there is the [[Paladin]], if one focuses on the latter's [[gish]] status.

	==Uncharismatic Charisma==		==Uncharismatic Charisma==

1d4chan>Zimriel: disambiguate

2021-05-23T00:00:31Z

disambiguate

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:00, 23 May 2021
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	CHA should come into its own in wargaming, which [[BATTLESYSTEM]] recognised. If only more gamers played it. Also, as a mental stat, it's used as a power source for certain spellcasting creatures or classes. Charisma-based spellcraft tends to reflect instinctive or inherent magical abilities; the caster doesn't study hard (Int) or use mental discipline and faith (Wis) for their power, it comes from within and is directed by sheer will.		CHA should come into its own in wargaming, which [[BATTLESYSTEM]] recognised. If only more gamers played it. Also, as a mental stat, it's used as a power source for certain spellcasting creatures or classes. Charisma-based spellcraft tends to reflect instinctive or inherent magical abilities; the caster doesn't study hard (Int) or use mental discipline and faith (Wis) for their power, it comes from within and is directed by sheer will.

	The iconic Charisma-based class in D&D is the [[Bard]]. He turned out to be annoying so later we got the [[Sorcerer]] (as of 3rd edition), an inexhaustible source of [[skub]]. Both were frequently ruled out of d20 settings and/or tweaked into unrecognisability. 4th edition floated the [[Warlock]]. Here and there is the [[Paladin]], if one focuses on the latter's [[gish]] status.		The iconic Charisma-based class in D&D is the [[Bard]]. He turned out to be annoying so later we got the [[Sorcerer_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)\|Sorcerer]] (as of 3rd edition), an inexhaustible source of [[skub]]. Both were frequently ruled out of d20 settings and/or tweaked into unrecognisability. 4th edition floated the [[Warlock]]. Here and there is the [[Paladin]], if one focuses on the latter's [[gish]] status.

	==Uncharismatic Charisma==		==Uncharismatic Charisma==