Communism - Revision history

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1d4chan>Piroko at 01:07, 14 June 2023

2023-06-14T01:07:47Z

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	{{topquote\|Under [[capitalism]], man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.\|Anonymous radio host from Soviet Armenia; also attributed to Yakov Smirnov}}		{{topquote\|Under [[capitalism]], man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.\|Anonymous radio host from Soviet Armenia; also attributed to Yakov Smirnov}}
	{{Topquote\|MASH THE DIRTY RED SCUM! KICK THEM IN THE TEETH WHERE IT HURTS! KILL! KILL, KILL! FILTHY BASTARD COMMIES! I HATE THEM, I HATE THEM! AH! AH!\|Ordo Xenos Inquisitor John Cleese, responding to the threat of the Damocles Crusade}}		{{Topquote\|MASH THE DIRTY RED SCUM! KICK THEM IN THE TEETH WHERE IT HURTS! KILL! KILL, KILL! FILTHY BASTARD COMMIES! I HATE THEM, I HATE THEM! AH! AH!\|Ordo Xenos Inquisitor John Cleese, responding to the threat of the Damocles Crusade}}
	{{topquote\|~~Communism is~~ the ~~corruption of~~ a ~~dream of justice~~.\|~~Adlai Stevenson I~~}}		{{topquote\|Everything the party told us about communism was a lie; and everything they told us about capitalism was true.\|Russian saying}}

	'''Communism''' can refer to two concepts: the society where the economy is collectively managed and organised government is replaced by local communes (hence the name), and the (usually) authoritarian ideology that seeks to instate such a perfect society. Communism in the first sense had been tried in various villages through the early nineteenth century before fizzling out or being suppressed by authorities, but most people are only interested in the second sense, due to its enormous impact on the twentieth century. Communism the ideology is generally associated with oligarchic rule of the "vanguard party" and a degree of central planning; it was the state ideology of the Soviet Union and its satellite states, as well as a few minor powers such as Yugoslavia and Vietnam, during the Cold War. It is still, albeit in a very modified form, adhered to in a few countries today, such as the People's Republic of China, North Korea and Cuba.		'''Communism''' can refer to two concepts: the society where the economy is collectively managed and organised government is replaced by local communes (hence the name), and the (usually) authoritarian ideology that seeks to instate such a perfect society. Communism in the first sense had been tried in various villages through the early nineteenth century before fizzling out or being suppressed by authorities, but most people are only interested in the second sense, due to its enormous impact on the twentieth century. Communism the ideology is generally associated with oligarchic rule of the "vanguard party" and a degree of central planning; it was the state ideology of the Soviet Union and its satellite states, as well as a few minor powers such as Yugoslavia and Vietnam, during the Cold War. It is still, albeit in a very modified form, adhered to in a few countries today, such as the People's Republic of China, North Korea and Cuba.

1d4chan>Lord Of The Lemmings at 01:06, 14 June 2023

2023-06-14T01:06:20Z

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2A02:8070:8E81:DD40:B0C4:C881:44A8:91F6: /* Issues */

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Issues

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	Furthermore, Bakunin's predictions about the dictatorship of the proletariat turning into a dictatorship ''over'' the proletariat have proven to be consistently correct, with party bureaucracies quickly assuming the same exploitative practices that their capitalist precursors used and claiming the means of production for themselves rather than passing them onto the workers. Often, they actually made those practices worse and suppressed labor movements more aggressively than the capitalists they had overthrown.		Furthermore, Bakunin's predictions about the dictatorship of the proletariat turning into a dictatorship ''over'' the proletariat have proven to be consistently correct, with party bureaucracies quickly assuming the same exploitative practices that their capitalist precursors used and claiming the means of production for themselves rather than passing them onto the workers. Often, they actually made those practices worse and suppressed labor movements more aggressively than the capitalists they had overthrown.

	Liberal philosophers like Karl Popper on the other hand took a more fundamental approach to their critique; Popper in particular had the major criticism that history doesn't run on predetermined rulesets and laws, like Marx thought, and that such a line of thinking, especially when paired with the promise of a socialist utopia, would ultimately just serve people like Lenin and Mao Zedong, who would abuse this ideology to create authoritarian nightmares that only serve themselves. Seeing how the Socialist dream always ended in stagnation, dictatorship and misery, he was ultimately proven to be right about a lot of things. Sociologists like Didier Eribon formulated another criticism on how Marxism views society; mainly that the working class, especially in our day and age, is not a uniform monolithic bloc that can be rallied to join a revolution or even a cause. While sharing common interests, how these interests manifest themselves in any individual can range wildly and also how the influence of social background often unconsciously makes people act against their own interests.		Liberal philosophers like Karl Popper on the other hand took a more fundamental approach to their critique; Popper in particular had the major criticism that history doesn't run on predetermined rulesets and laws, like Marx thought, and that such a line of thinking, especially when paired with the promise of a socialist utopia, would ultimately just serve people like Lenin and Mao Zedong, who would abuse this ideology to create authoritarian nightmares that only serve themselves. Seeing how the Socialist dream always ended in stagnation, dictatorship and misery, he was ultimately proven to be right about a lot of things. Sociologists like Didier Eribon formulated another criticism on how Marxism views society; mainly that the working class, especially in our day and age, is not a uniform monolithic bloc that can be rallied to join a revolution or even a cause. While sharing common interests, how these interests manifest themselves in any individual can range wildly and also how the influence of social background often unconsciously makes people act against their own interests (like the current wave of impoverished white people in the Rust Belt and the US South violently opposing any sort of social benefits, even though they would disproportionately benefit from such systems being established).

	Even in an ideal universe where the bureaucracy running a centrally planned economy wasn't corrupt or inept, the technology to monitor and plan any sort of national economy has yet to be invented and what we have now can't keep track of everything well enough to make it work; the average economy is incredibly complex and not even the most advanced computers that currently exist can predict every possible variable that might affect how the economy functions (let alone predict the long term effects of a plan), so mistakes will inevitably occur and snowball with dangerous consequences. As a result, a centrally planned economy invariably destroys the countries in which it is attempted due to drop of quality in consumer products, and eventually, food sources. Countries like China use the international market to get around this, but this is only delaying the inevitable. It gets even worse when you factor in the further increased complexity demanded by globalization. Technological advancements in the future might be able to mitigate this issue or even solve it outright, but they may not happen for a very long time.		Even in an ideal universe where the bureaucracy running a centrally planned economy wasn't corrupt or inept, the technology to monitor and plan any sort of national economy has yet to be invented and what we have now can't keep track of everything well enough to make it work; the average economy is incredibly complex and not even the most advanced computers that currently exist can predict every possible variable that might affect how the economy functions (let alone predict the long term effects of a plan), so mistakes will inevitably occur and snowball with dangerous consequences. As a result, a centrally planned economy invariably destroys the countries in which it is attempted due to drop of quality in consumer products, and eventually, food sources. Countries like China use the international market to get around this, but this is only delaying the inevitable. It gets even worse when you factor in the further increased complexity demanded by globalization. Technological advancements in the future might be able to mitigate this issue or even solve it outright, but they may not happen for a very long time.

65.108.50.207 at 18:25, 1 June 2023

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1d4chan>A Walrus: Undo revision 888285 by 2605:6400:D814:FEA4:0:0:0:0 (talk)

2023-05-17T05:19:07Z

Undo revision 888285 by 2605:6400:D814:FEA4:0:0:0:0 (talk)

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	File:AK-47.jpg\|Glorious Soviet Industries could be used to produce huge numbers of reliable and effective things which are still in high demand after a half a century...		File:AK-47.jpg\|Glorious Soviet Industries could be used to produce huge numbers of reliable and effective things which are still in high demand after a half a century...
	File:Lada 1200.jpg\|\|...Their cars are not on that list.		File:Lada 1200.jpg\|\|...Their cars are not on that list.
	File:Communism and the NTS Fallacy.png\|~~[[skub\| Which form of socialism killed more people?]], Nazism or Marxism?, [[Tzeentch\|nobody knows since both will usually deny~~ the ~~killings]].~~ (~~Not~~ pictured: Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro and more)		File:Communism and the NTS Fallacy.png\|Still a better track record than the Nazis (not pictured, Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro and more)
	File:Space marine commie.jpg\| Do your duty comrade		File:Space marine commie.jpg\| Do your duty comrade
	File: Stalin space marine.jpg\| This is how some people think World War II actually went		File: Stalin space marine.jpg\| This is how some people think World War II actually went

2605:6400:D814:FEA4:0:0:0:0: Once there was an ugly barnacle. He was so ugly that everyone died.

2023-05-17T04:54:59Z

Once there was an ugly barnacle. He was so ugly that everyone died.

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	File:AK-47.jpg\|Glorious Soviet Industries could be used to produce huge numbers of reliable and effective things which are still in high demand after a half a century...		File:AK-47.jpg\|Glorious Soviet Industries could be used to produce huge numbers of reliable and effective things which are still in high demand after a half a century...
	File:Lada 1200.jpg\|\|...Their cars are not on that list.		File:Lada 1200.jpg\|\|...Their cars are not on that list.
	File:Communism and the NTS Fallacy.png\|~~Still a better track record than~~ the ~~Nazis~~ (~~not~~ pictured, Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro and more)		File:Communism and the NTS Fallacy.png\|[[skub\| Which form of socialism killed more people?]], Nazism or Marxism?, [[Tzeentch\|nobody knows since both will usually deny the killings]]. (Not pictured: Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro and more)
	File:Space marine commie.jpg\| Do your duty comrade		File:Space marine commie.jpg\| Do your duty comrade
	File: Stalin space marine.jpg\| This is how some people think World War II actually went		File: Stalin space marine.jpg\| This is how some people think World War II actually went

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:19, 17 May 2023
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	File:AK-47.jpg\|Glorious Soviet Industries could be used to produce huge numbers of reliable and effective things which are still in high demand after a half a century...		File:AK-47.jpg\|Glorious Soviet Industries could be used to produce huge numbers of reliable and effective things which are still in high demand after a half a century...
	File:Lada 1200.jpg\|\|...Their cars are not on that list.		File:Lada 1200.jpg\|\|...Their cars are not on that list.
	File:Communism and the NTS Fallacy.png\|~~[[skub\| Which form of socialism killed more people?]], Nazism or Marxism?, [[Tzeentch\|nobody knows since both will usually deny~~ the ~~killings]].~~ (~~Not~~ pictured: Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro and more)		File:Communism and the NTS Fallacy.png\|Still a better track record than the Nazis (not pictured, Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro and more)
	File:Space marine commie.jpg\| Do your duty comrade		File:Space marine commie.jpg\| Do your duty comrade
	File: Stalin space marine.jpg\| This is how some people think World War II actually went		File: Stalin space marine.jpg\| This is how some people think World War II actually went

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:54, 17 May 2023
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	File:AK-47.jpg\|Glorious Soviet Industries could be used to produce huge numbers of reliable and effective things which are still in high demand after a half a century...		File:AK-47.jpg\|Glorious Soviet Industries could be used to produce huge numbers of reliable and effective things which are still in high demand after a half a century...
	File:Lada 1200.jpg\|\|...Their cars are not on that list.		File:Lada 1200.jpg\|\|...Their cars are not on that list.
	File:Communism and the NTS Fallacy.png\|~~Still a better track record than~~ the ~~Nazis~~ (~~not~~ pictured, Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro and more)		File:Communism and the NTS Fallacy.png\|[[skub\| Which form of socialism killed more people?]], Nazism or Marxism?, [[Tzeentch\|nobody knows since both will usually deny the killings]]. (Not pictured: Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro and more)
	File:Space marine commie.jpg\| Do your duty comrade		File:Space marine commie.jpg\| Do your duty comrade
	File: Stalin space marine.jpg\| This is how some people think World War II actually went		File: Stalin space marine.jpg\| This is how some people think World War II actually went