Council of Nikaea - Revision history

imported>Administrator: 74 revisions imported

2023-06-20T16:23:29Z

74 revisions imported

← Older revision	Revision as of 16:23, 20 June 2023
(No difference)

imported>Administrator: 1 revision imported

2023-06-18T22:10:29Z

1 revision imported

← Older revision	Revision as of 22:10, 18 June 2023
(No difference)

1d4chan>Derpysaurus at 06:43, 6 June 2023

2023-06-06T06:43:05Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:43, 6 June 2023
Line 57:		Line 57:
	*[[Vulkan]] also tried the Sanguinius approach. However, there were barely any [[Salamanders]] left after Isstvan and by M41 they looked back upon Nikaea as an ancient and archaic edict that had no place anymore.		*[[Vulkan]] also tried the Sanguinius approach. However, there were barely any [[Salamanders]] left after Isstvan and by M41 they looked back upon Nikaea as an ancient and archaic edict that had no place anymore.
	*[[Corax]] was a latent psyker, but was oddly one of the most staunch critics of the Librarius. As such he took no issue with banning psykers within his legion from using their powers. Following a personal encounter with the [[Possessed Marine\|Gal Vorbak]], Corax did a 180 and began advocating using Librarians, nearly getting into a shooting match with the Custodes over it. We don't know if they reinstated their Librarians but it seems extremely likely that they did after the Alpha Legion attack to disrupt/steal their cloning tech (which Librarians could have detected).		*[[Corax]] was a latent psyker, but was oddly one of the most staunch critics of the Librarius. As such he took no issue with banning psykers within his legion from using their powers. Following a personal encounter with the [[Possessed Marine\|Gal Vorbak]], Corax did a 180 and began advocating using Librarians, nearly getting into a shooting match with the Custodes over it. We don't know if they reinstated their Librarians but it seems extremely likely that they did after the Alpha Legion attack to disrupt/steal their cloning tech (which Librarians could have detected).
	*The [[Jaghatai Khan\|Khan]] was another of the creators of the Librarius project, as his homeworld had a long history of training psykers to safely and responsibly use their powers. When the ban came down, the [[White Scars]] (at least those that got the message) just kinda shrugged, twiddled their mustaches and pretended like it never happened. The "stormseer" who spoke for the Scars at Nikaea simply privately refused to accept it and vindicated himself shortly after by exploding a daemon with lightning. His psychic powers (and those of the one surviving loyalist from the Thousand Sons) later [[Dark Glass\|saved the entire Legion]] during the Horus Heresy. However, the whole thing was a bit moot anyway as the Scars were so far afield that by the time they heard about the ban, the Heresy had already started and nobody cared anymore.		*The [[Jaghatai Khan\|Khan]] was another of the creators of the Librarius project, as his homeworld had a long history of training psykers to safely and responsibly use their powers. When the ban came down, the [[White Scars]] (at least those that got the message) just kinda shrugged, twiddled their mustaches and pretended like it never happened. The "[[stormseer]]" who spoke for the Scars at Nikaea simply privately refused to accept it and vindicated himself shortly after by exploding a daemon with lightning. His psychic powers (and those of the one surviving loyalist from the Thousand Sons) later [[Dark Glass\|saved the entire Legion]] during the Horus Heresy. However, the whole thing was a bit moot anyway as the Scars were so far afield that by the time they heard about the ban, the Heresy had already started and nobody cared anymore.
	*Leman Russ had a... rather odd relationship with psykers in general. While he strongly disliked Magnus for being an arrogant dick and viewed his powers as unclean sorcery, he seemed not to have any problem with the [[Rune Priest]]s of his own legion. The Wolves in general totally denied that their Rune Priests were psykers at all and claimed that their power came from [[Fenris]] as opposed to the warp. While this was just flatly wrong, their primitive belief structure caused their '''Underverse''' to manifest in a way that was completely different to the [[Chaos]] of the [[Warp]] and allowed them to distinguish between them. This seemingly caused the "Spirit of Fenris" to become an actual honest-to-god warp entity of some sort, which in a weird roundabout way actually validated the Fenrisian's beliefs. Regardless of whether or not Russ or the Wolves understood any of that nuance, it was made clear by [[Malcador]] afterwards that Big E made a decision to tolerate their beliefs, seeing it was important for his "executioners" to be able to deal with other warp-users. In fact, two of their Librarians, Aun Helwintr and Ohthere Wyrdmake, were vocal opponents of employing Librarians at the Council and yet directly participated in the [[Burning of Prospero]].		*Leman Russ had a... rather odd relationship with psykers in general. While he strongly disliked Magnus for being an arrogant dick and viewed his powers as unclean sorcery, he seemed not to have any problem with the [[Rune Priest]]s of his own legion. The Wolves in general totally denied that their Rune Priests were psykers at all and claimed that their power came from [[Fenris]] as opposed to the warp. While this was just flatly wrong, their primitive belief structure caused their '''Underverse''' to manifest in a way that was completely different to the [[Chaos]] of the [[Warp]] and allowed them to distinguish between them. This seemingly caused the "Spirit of Fenris" to become an actual honest-to-god warp entity of some sort, which in a weird roundabout way actually validated the Fenrisian's beliefs. Regardless of whether or not Russ or the Wolves understood any of that nuance, it was made clear by [[Malcador]] afterwards that Big E made a decision to tolerate their beliefs, seeing it was important for his "executioners" to be able to deal with other warp-users. In fact, two of their Librarians, Aun Helwintr and Ohthere Wyrdmake, were vocal opponents of employing Librarians at the Council and yet directly participated in the [[Burning of Prospero]].
	**''Prospero Burns'' actually nuances this, explaining that they were okay about the Librarius as envisioned but wanted Magnus censured (basically they drew a line between acceptable psyker practices and sorcery) but they failed to get their point across, leaving an opening for Mortarion to get the whole thing shut down. The [[Space Wolves]] supported the banning of Librarians but kept their own afterwards.		**''Prospero Burns'' actually nuances this, explaining that they were okay about the Librarius as envisioned but wanted Magnus censured (basically they drew a line between acceptable psyker practices and sorcery) but they failed to get their point across, leaving an opening for Mortarion to get the whole thing shut down. The [[Space Wolves]] supported the banning of Librarians but kept their own afterwards.

2A02:1810:4E2C:A900:3D6C:5C98:46F7:4F7D: /* Loyalist Response to Nikaea */

2023-06-01T23:37:48Z

Loyalist Response to Nikaea

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:37, 1 June 2023
Line 59:		Line 59:
	*The [[Jaghatai Khan\|Khan]] was another of the creators of the Librarius project, as his homeworld had a long history of training psykers to safely and responsibly use their powers. When the ban came down, the [[White Scars]] (at least those that got the message) just kinda shrugged, twiddled their mustaches and pretended like it never happened. The "stormseer" who spoke for the Scars at Nikaea simply privately refused to accept it and vindicated himself shortly after by exploding a daemon with lightning. His psychic powers (and those of the one surviving loyalist from the Thousand Sons) later [[Dark Glass\|saved the entire Legion]] during the Horus Heresy. However, the whole thing was a bit moot anyway as the Scars were so far afield that by the time they heard about the ban, the Heresy had already started and nobody cared anymore.		*The [[Jaghatai Khan\|Khan]] was another of the creators of the Librarius project, as his homeworld had a long history of training psykers to safely and responsibly use their powers. When the ban came down, the [[White Scars]] (at least those that got the message) just kinda shrugged, twiddled their mustaches and pretended like it never happened. The "stormseer" who spoke for the Scars at Nikaea simply privately refused to accept it and vindicated himself shortly after by exploding a daemon with lightning. His psychic powers (and those of the one surviving loyalist from the Thousand Sons) later [[Dark Glass\|saved the entire Legion]] during the Horus Heresy. However, the whole thing was a bit moot anyway as the Scars were so far afield that by the time they heard about the ban, the Heresy had already started and nobody cared anymore.
	*Leman Russ had a... rather odd relationship with psykers in general. While he strongly disliked Magnus for being an arrogant dick and viewed his powers as unclean sorcery, he seemed not to have any problem with the [[Rune Priest]]s of his own legion. The Wolves in general totally denied that their Rune Priests were psykers at all and claimed that their power came from [[Fenris]] as opposed to the warp. While this was just flatly wrong, their primitive belief structure caused their '''Underverse''' to manifest in a way that was completely different to the [[Chaos]] of the [[Warp]] and allowed them to distinguish between them. This seemingly caused the "Spirit of Fenris" to become an actual honest-to-god warp entity of some sort, which in a weird roundabout way actually validated the Fenrisian's beliefs. Regardless of whether or not Russ or the Wolves understood any of that nuance, it was made clear by [[Malcador]] afterwards that Big E made a decision to tolerate their beliefs, seeing it was important for his "executioners" to be able to deal with other warp-users. In fact, two of their Librarians, Aun Helwintr and Ohthere Wyrdmake, were vocal opponents of employing Librarians at the Council and yet directly participated in the [[Burning of Prospero]].		*Leman Russ had a... rather odd relationship with psykers in general. While he strongly disliked Magnus for being an arrogant dick and viewed his powers as unclean sorcery, he seemed not to have any problem with the [[Rune Priest]]s of his own legion. The Wolves in general totally denied that their Rune Priests were psykers at all and claimed that their power came from [[Fenris]] as opposed to the warp. While this was just flatly wrong, their primitive belief structure caused their '''Underverse''' to manifest in a way that was completely different to the [[Chaos]] of the [[Warp]] and allowed them to distinguish between them. This seemingly caused the "Spirit of Fenris" to become an actual honest-to-god warp entity of some sort, which in a weird roundabout way actually validated the Fenrisian's beliefs. Regardless of whether or not Russ or the Wolves understood any of that nuance, it was made clear by [[Malcador]] afterwards that Big E made a decision to tolerate their beliefs, seeing it was important for his "executioners" to be able to deal with other warp-users. In fact, two of their Librarians, Aun Helwintr and Ohthere Wyrdmake, were vocal opponents of employing Librarians at the Council and yet directly participated in the [[Burning of Prospero]].
	**''Prospero Burns'' actually nuances this, explaining that they were okay about the Librarius as envisioned but wanted Magnus censured (basically they drew a line between acceptable psyker practices and sorcery) but they failed to get their point across, leaving an opening for Mortarion to get the whole thing shut down.The [[Space Wolves]] supported the banning of Librarians but kept their own afterwards.		**''Prospero Burns'' actually nuances this, explaining that they were okay about the Librarius as envisioned but wanted Magnus censured (basically they drew a line between acceptable psyker practices and sorcery) but they failed to get their point across, leaving an opening for Mortarion to get the whole thing shut down. The [[Space Wolves]] supported the banning of Librarians but kept their own afterwards.
	*[[Malcador the Sigillite]] gave permission to the Librarians among the [[Knights-Errant]] to begin using their psychic powers after the edict, even supplying them with psychic hoods. The [[Adeptus Custodes]] made it clear that they did not recognize Malcador's authority to do so, but they were in a bit of a logical paradox over the matter: either enforce the Emperor's will by stopping Malcador from continuing his work, or defy the Emperor's will by stopping his appointed Regent from continuing his work. They settled for threatening to kill any Librarian using his powers in their presence so the Knights-Errant just did it out of their presence.		*[[Malcador the Sigillite]] gave permission to the Librarians among the [[Knights-Errant]] to begin using their psychic powers after the edict, even supplying them with psychic hoods. The [[Adeptus Custodes]] made it clear that they did not recognize Malcador's authority to do so, but they were in a bit of a logical paradox over the matter: either enforce the Emperor's will by stopping Malcador from continuing his work, or defy the Emperor's will by stopping his appointed Regent from continuing his work. They settled for threatening to kill any Librarian using his powers in their presence so the Knights-Errant just did it out of their presence.

2A02:1810:4E2C:A900:3D6C:5C98:46F7:4F7D at 23:33, 1 June 2023

2023-06-01T23:33:38Z

Show changes

1d4chan>Gilten: /* Councils of Nikaea IRL */

2023-02-27T11:00:30Z

Councils of Nikaea IRL

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:00, 27 February 2023
Line 78:		Line 78:

	== Councils of Nikaea IRL ==		== Councils of Nikaea IRL ==
	The [[~~wiki~~:First Council of Nicaea\|First Council of Nikaia]] (Latinly spelled Nicaea, or Nicea) was a meeting convened by Emperor Constantine in the year 325 in [[derp\|Nicaea]] not far from Byzantium. This was to sort out some controversies in Christian doctrine: in particular related to the divinity of Jesus (or lack thereof), a couple of schisms, and miscellaneous organizational details like how to deal with [[heretics]]. Slavery was also a big issue. One of the outcomes of the meeting was the [[wiki:Nicene Creed\|Nicene Creed]], which was meant to be a distillation of the most fundamental tenets of Christianity: basically, that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit all exist and are divine, that Jesus was sent to be crucified for humanity's sins, and that the living and dead will be judged before being resurrected into the kingdom of Heaven. The original version of the Creed includes a line saying that heretics who deny that Jesus was divine (or say that he was not always divine) are "condemned by the holy catholic and apostolic Church," but that got removed at Theodosius' First Council of Constantinople in 381; other words have been added in, for instance about the Virgin Mary, such that our "Nicene Creed" is more accurately a Theodosian Creed. Most Christian denominations adhere to the Nicene Creed to this day, the late-antique dissidents mainly having recoalesced around Islam. Although there are some Christians (such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Unitarians) who have lately abandoned this.		The [[wikipedia:First Council of Nicaea\|First Council of Nikaia]] (Latinly spelled Nicaea, or Nicea) was a meeting convened by Emperor Constantine in the year 325 in [[derp\|Nicaea]] not far from Byzantium. This was to sort out some controversies in Christian doctrine: in particular related to the divinity of Jesus (or lack thereof), a couple of schisms, and miscellaneous organizational details like how to deal with [[heretics]]. Slavery was also a big issue. One of the outcomes of the meeting was the [[wiki:Nicene Creed\|Nicene Creed]], which was meant to be a distillation of the most fundamental tenets of Christianity: basically, that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit all exist and are divine, that Jesus was sent to be crucified for humanity's sins, and that the living and dead will be judged before being resurrected into the kingdom of Heaven. The original version of the Creed includes a line saying that heretics who deny that Jesus was divine (or say that he was not always divine) are "condemned by the holy catholic and apostolic Church," but that got removed at Theodosius' First Council of Constantinople in 381; other words have been added in, for instance about the Virgin Mary, such that our "Nicene Creed" is more accurately a Theodosian Creed. Most Christian denominations adhere to the Nicene Creed to this day, the late-antique dissidents mainly having recoalesced around Islam. Although there are some Christians (such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Unitarians) who have lately abandoned this.

	There was also a [[~~wiki~~:Second Council of Nicaea\|Second Council of Nicaea]] in the year 787, which was convened by the Empress Irene in response to the iconoclasm (the destruction of religious icons and artwork) promulgated by her predecessors. See, the previous three Emperors had said that erecting images of Jesus and saints and so on was heresy, because one of the Commandments forbade the creation of graven images for the purpose of worship, and because paintings and sculptures could not be divine and therefore could not properly convey the holy nature of their subjects. Their opponents (the iconophiles) retorted that venerating icons of actual saints was not at all the same thing as worshiping idols to false gods, that destroying art and church property and torturing the monks who made it was hardly an appropriate response, and that the Emperors didn't seem to have a problem with people erecting images of ''them''. In the end, the Second Council ruled that it was actually the iconoclasts who were the heretics, and that making icons and venerating them was totally okay so long as it didn't cross the line into worship of the icon, rather than the faith that the icon represented. This one is more controversial than the First Council; many Protestant denominations say that the distinction between veneration and idolatry is just playing word games. Some actually state quite bluntly that it's the Catholics who were the real heretics all along.		There was also a [[wikipedia:Second Council of Nicaea\|Second Council of Nicaea]] in the year 787, which was convened by the Empress Irene in response to the iconoclasm (the destruction of religious icons and artwork) promulgated by her predecessors. See, the previous three Emperors had said that erecting images of Jesus and saints and so on was heresy, because one of the Commandments forbade the creation of graven images for the purpose of worship, and because paintings and sculptures could not be divine and therefore could not properly convey the holy nature of their subjects. Their opponents (the iconophiles) retorted that venerating icons of actual saints was not at all the same thing as worshiping idols to false gods, that destroying art and church property and torturing the monks who made it was hardly an appropriate response, and that the Emperors didn't seem to have a problem with people erecting images of ''them''. In the end, the Second Council ruled that it was actually the iconoclasts who were the heretics, and that making icons and venerating them was totally okay so long as it didn't cross the line into worship of the icon, rather than the faith that the icon represented. This one is more controversial than the First Council; many Protestant denominations say that the distinction between veneration and idolatry is just playing word games. Some actually state quite bluntly that it's the Catholics who were the real heretics all along.

	Since the God-Emperor of Mankind was known to be active in the early history of humanity, he probably took some amusement at the idea that he, a man who had very publicly made a point to [[Lorgar]] that he was ''[[Imperial Truth\|not to be worshipped]]'', was handing down the ban on psykers on a world named for a city in which men had decided that Jesus Christ (who may have been the Emperor Himself) was divine and that it was okay to make religious icons!		Since the God-Emperor of Mankind was known to be active in the early history of humanity, he probably took some amusement at the idea that he, a man who had very publicly made a point to [[Lorgar]] that he was ''[[Imperial Truth\|not to be worshipped]]'', was handing down the ban on psykers on a world named for a city in which men had decided that Jesus Christ (who may have been the Emperor Himself) was divine and that it was okay to make religious icons!

32.215.43.210: /* Traitor Response to Nikaea */

2023-02-27T05:57:46Z

Traitor Response to Nikaea

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:57, 27 February 2023
Line 73:		Line 73:
	* The [[Sons of Horus]] went along with the decree initially, but when they got their Heresy on, they learned sorcery quickly from the Word Bearers (through the Lodges) and were quick to use it openly and without restraint after Istvaan.		* The [[Sons of Horus]] went along with the decree initially, but when they got their Heresy on, they learned sorcery quickly from the Word Bearers (through the Lodges) and were quick to use it openly and without restraint after Istvaan.
	* [[Perturabo]] was against using Librarians, in fact it was noted as one of the only things that brought him and [[Rogal Dorn]] together. However his opposition to the Librarius initiative was one born of pragmatism rather than a dislike of psykers. He basically took the opposite view of Guilliman; where Guilliman believed the Librarians to be a useful military tool, Perturabo thought them to be a waste of time and resources. If it might have helped the [[Iron Warriors]] build or tear down fortresses any quicker then they might have joined the "fuck Nikaea bandwagon" with gusto, but there are no recorded Iron Warriors Librarians after turning traitor either. Perturabo was pissed (as usual) that Big E used the coliseum he had been allowed to build for competitive events as a courtroom.		* [[Perturabo]] was against using Librarians, in fact it was noted as one of the only things that brought him and [[Rogal Dorn]] together. However his opposition to the Librarius initiative was one born of pragmatism rather than a dislike of psykers. He basically took the opposite view of Guilliman; where Guilliman believed the Librarians to be a useful military tool, Perturabo thought them to be a waste of time and resources. If it might have helped the [[Iron Warriors]] build or tear down fortresses any quicker then they might have joined the "fuck Nikaea bandwagon" with gusto, but there are no recorded Iron Warriors Librarians after turning traitor either. Perturabo was pissed (as usual) that Big E used the coliseum he had been allowed to build for competitive events as a courtroom.
	* Although [[Fulgrim]] was initially a proponent of the Librarius amongst Astartes, since he viewed the psyker as another step on the human road to perfection, he seemingly did not support exploration of the matter for his own ~~legion, possibly deciding that it was an imperfect and unnatural deviation not becoming of his~~ legion. It was stated clearly in at least two sources that "The Legion employed no Librarians, as the genetic mutation that allowed a psyker to access the warp was considered a flaw, a nothing considered a flaw would be allowed in the Legion." (A Reflection Crack'd, Angel Exterminatus). As further evidence, the [[Emperor's Children]] appear to have followed the Edict since no EC Librarian has ever appeared in the fluff.		* Although [[Fulgrim]] was initially a proponent of the Librarius amongst Astartes, since he viewed the psyker as another step on the human road to perfection, he seemingly did not support exploration of the matter for his own legion. It was stated clearly in at least two sources that "The Legion employed no Librarians, as the genetic mutation that allowed a psyker to access the warp was considered a flaw, a nothing considered a flaw would be allowed in the Legion." (A Reflection Crack'd, Angel Exterminatus). As further evidence, the [[Emperor's Children]] appear to have followed the Edict since no EC Librarian has ever appeared in the fluff.

	In M41 the Edict technically still stands (no one can overrule the [[Emperor]] and he never officially revoked his Edict) but it stopped being enforced after the [[Horus Heresy\|Heresy]] and the marines could please themselves. Also of interest is that the Emperor violated the Edict himself by ordering the founding of the Grey Knights, who are even bigger violators of it than the Thousand Sons.		In M41 the Edict technically still stands (no one can overrule the [[Emperor]] and he never officially revoked his Edict) but it stopped being enforced after the [[Horus Heresy\|Heresy]] and the marines could please themselves. Also of interest is that the Emperor violated the Edict himself by ordering the founding of the Grey Knights, who are even bigger violators of it than the Thousand Sons.

32.215.43.210: /* Traitor Response to Nikaea */ Wrote a clarification on the Emperor's Children stance on the matter.

2023-02-27T05:56:48Z

Traitor Response to Nikaea: Wrote a clarification on the Emperor's Children stance on the matter.

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:56, 27 February 2023
Line 73:		Line 73:
	* The [[Sons of Horus]] went along with the decree initially, but when they got their Heresy on, they learned sorcery quickly from the Word Bearers (through the Lodges) and were quick to use it openly and without restraint after Istvaan.		* The [[Sons of Horus]] went along with the decree initially, but when they got their Heresy on, they learned sorcery quickly from the Word Bearers (through the Lodges) and were quick to use it openly and without restraint after Istvaan.
	* [[Perturabo]] was against using Librarians, in fact it was noted as one of the only things that brought him and [[Rogal Dorn]] together. However his opposition to the Librarius initiative was one born of pragmatism rather than a dislike of psykers. He basically took the opposite view of Guilliman; where Guilliman believed the Librarians to be a useful military tool, Perturabo thought them to be a waste of time and resources. If it might have helped the [[Iron Warriors]] build or tear down fortresses any quicker then they might have joined the "fuck Nikaea bandwagon" with gusto, but there are no recorded Iron Warriors Librarians after turning traitor either. Perturabo was pissed (as usual) that Big E used the coliseum he had been allowed to build for competitive events as a courtroom.		* [[Perturabo]] was against using Librarians, in fact it was noted as one of the only things that brought him and [[Rogal Dorn]] together. However his opposition to the Librarius initiative was one born of pragmatism rather than a dislike of psykers. He basically took the opposite view of Guilliman; where Guilliman believed the Librarians to be a useful military tool, Perturabo thought them to be a waste of time and resources. If it might have helped the [[Iron Warriors]] build or tear down fortresses any quicker then they might have joined the "fuck Nikaea bandwagon" with gusto, but there are no recorded Iron Warriors Librarians after turning traitor either. Perturabo was pissed (as usual) that Big E used the coliseum he had been allowed to build for competitive events as a courtroom.
	* [[Fulgrim]] was a proponent of the Librarius, as he viewed the psyker as another step on the human road to perfection. The [[Emperor's Children]] ~~seemingly went along with~~ the Edict since no EC Librarian has ever appeared in the fluff.		* Although [[Fulgrim]] was initially a proponent of the Librarius amongst Astartes, since he viewed the psyker as another step on the human road to perfection, he seemingly did not support exploration of the matter for his own legion, possibly deciding that it was an imperfect and unnatural deviation not becoming of his legion. It was stated clearly in at least two sources that "The Legion employed no Librarians, as the genetic mutation that allowed a psyker to access the warp was considered a flaw, a nothing considered a flaw would be allowed in the Legion." (A Reflection Crack'd, Angel Exterminatus). As further evidence, the [[Emperor's Children]] appear to have followed the Edict since no EC Librarian has ever appeared in the fluff.

	In M41 the Edict technically still stands (no one can overrule the [[Emperor]] and he never officially revoked his Edict) but it stopped being enforced after the [[Horus Heresy\|Heresy]] and the marines could please themselves. Also of interest is that the Emperor violated the Edict himself by ordering the founding of the Grey Knights, who are even bigger violators of it than the Thousand Sons.		In M41 the Edict technically still stands (no one can overrule the [[Emperor]] and he never officially revoked his Edict) but it stopped being enforced after the [[Horus Heresy\|Heresy]] and the marines could please themselves. Also of interest is that the Emperor violated the Edict himself by ordering the founding of the Grey Knights, who are even bigger violators of it than the Thousand Sons.

1d4chan>An0nym0us at 11:11, 22 December 2022

2022-12-22T11:11:35Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:11, 22 December 2022
Line 70:		Line 70:
	*[[Mortarion]] was already just about the biggest psyker hater in the universe, was one of the decree's strongest supporters. He had even informed by [[Malcador]] that the Emperor was planning to get rid of the Librarius about 70 years before the council even took place, giving him plenty of time to prepare for it. Hilariously, this backfired badly on him when he eventually realised that getting the Edict pushed through only weakened the loyalist's psykers; his allies were (mostly) letting their psykers run rampant with a whole new set of freakshow abilities. Things got so bad for him that he tried to get the librarian supporting Jaghatai Khan on his side. Jaghatai countered by attempting to carve the hypocrite out of Mortarion's pustuled arse. He then pillaged a Thousand Sons' library world and [[Wat\|actually summoned a demon]] [[just as planned\|whose sole purpose was to tempt him into using sorcery even more]]. [[fail\|It worked]], and Mortarion then [[derp\|yo-yoed between studying sorcery whilst pillaging every ritual device he could get his hands on, and smashing the various trinkets he acquired]]. It peaked with Molech before Mortarion tried to get back to first principles. Ironically due to his lack of people skills and his poor Psy-dar he never knew his [[Typhus\|second-in-command]] was a dirty warp burglar. First rule of management, get to know your people. [[Not as planned\|As final nail in his coffin]], he became a powerful Psyker himself when Granddaddy Nurgle adopted him.		*[[Mortarion]] was already just about the biggest psyker hater in the universe, was one of the decree's strongest supporters. He had even informed by [[Malcador]] that the Emperor was planning to get rid of the Librarius about 70 years before the council even took place, giving him plenty of time to prepare for it. Hilariously, this backfired badly on him when he eventually realised that getting the Edict pushed through only weakened the loyalist's psykers; his allies were (mostly) letting their psykers run rampant with a whole new set of freakshow abilities. Things got so bad for him that he tried to get the librarian supporting Jaghatai Khan on his side. Jaghatai countered by attempting to carve the hypocrite out of Mortarion's pustuled arse. He then pillaged a Thousand Sons' library world and [[Wat\|actually summoned a demon]] [[just as planned\|whose sole purpose was to tempt him into using sorcery even more]]. [[fail\|It worked]], and Mortarion then [[derp\|yo-yoed between studying sorcery whilst pillaging every ritual device he could get his hands on, and smashing the various trinkets he acquired]]. It peaked with Molech before Mortarion tried to get back to first principles. Ironically due to his lack of people skills and his poor Psy-dar he never knew his [[Typhus\|second-in-command]] was a dirty warp burglar. First rule of management, get to know your people. [[Not as planned\|As final nail in his coffin]], he became a powerful Psyker himself when Granddaddy Nurgle adopted him.
	*The [[Alpha Legion]] also ignored the edict like they did almost everything else. Officially, they disbanded the Librarius; unofficially, [[Alpharius]] and [[Omegon]] kept their Librarians around for special operations.		*The [[Alpha Legion]] also ignored the edict like they did almost everything else. Officially, they disbanded the Librarius; unofficially, [[Alpharius]] and [[Omegon]] kept their Librarians around for special operations.
	*[[Konrad Curze]] was said to have supported the use of Librarians, and was quite a potent psyker himself (though untrained and not fond of his abilities). Somewhat oddly, he never seemed to express any personal opinion on psykers, and appeared to have been almost completely neutral regarding the topic. However, despite his Legion having a significantly greater than normal proportion of psykers in their ranks, most of the Night Lords seemed to dislike psykers in general. When the Edict came down, the [[Night Lords]] nominally accepted it but Curze seemingly didn't bother to enforce it. In fact, he apparently cared so little about the whole business that he passed on the decision as to what to do with the Legion's psykers to his First Captain [[~~Jago Sevatarion\|~~Sevatar]]. Sevatar didn't care either, and so passed the decision in turn to individual company commanders. Most happily went along with the Edict (even going so far as to exile their Chief Librarian, who ironically was recruited into the Knight-Errants afterwards), but they occasionally dabbled in sorcery throughout the Heresy.		*[[Konrad Curze]] was said to have supported the use of Librarians, and was quite a potent psyker himself (though untrained and not fond of his abilities). Somewhat oddly, he never seemed to express any personal opinion on psykers, and appeared to have been almost completely neutral regarding the topic. However, despite his Legion having a significantly greater than normal proportion of psykers in their ranks, most of the Night Lords seemed to dislike psykers in general. When the Edict came down, the [[Night Lords]] nominally accepted it but Curze seemingly didn't bother to enforce it. In fact, he apparently cared so little about the whole business that he passed on the decision as to what to do with the Legion's psykers to his First Captain [[Sevatar]]. Sevatar didn't care either, and so passed the decision in turn to individual company commanders. Most happily went along with the Edict (even going so far as to exile their Chief Librarian, who ironically was recruited into the Knight-Errants afterwards), but they occasionally dabbled in sorcery throughout the Heresy.
	* The [[Sons of Horus]] went along with the decree initially, but when they got their Heresy on, they learned sorcery quickly from the Word Bearers (through the Lodges) and were quick to use it openly and without restraint after Istvaan.		* The [[Sons of Horus]] went along with the decree initially, but when they got their Heresy on, they learned sorcery quickly from the Word Bearers (through the Lodges) and were quick to use it openly and without restraint after Istvaan.
	* [[Perturabo]] was against using Librarians, in fact it was noted as one of the only things that brought him and [[Rogal Dorn]] together. However his opposition to the Librarius initiative was one born of pragmatism rather than a dislike of psykers. He basically took the opposite view of Guilliman; where Guilliman believed the Librarians to be a useful military tool, Perturabo thought them to be a waste of time and resources. If it might have helped the [[Iron Warriors]] build or tear down fortresses any quicker then they might have joined the "fuck Nikaea bandwagon" with gusto, but there are no recorded Iron Warriors Librarians after turning traitor either. Perturabo was pissed (as usual) that Big E used the coliseum he had been allowed to build for competitive events as a courtroom.		* [[Perturabo]] was against using Librarians, in fact it was noted as one of the only things that brought him and [[Rogal Dorn]] together. However his opposition to the Librarius initiative was one born of pragmatism rather than a dislike of psykers. He basically took the opposite view of Guilliman; where Guilliman believed the Librarians to be a useful military tool, Perturabo thought them to be a waste of time and resources. If it might have helped the [[Iron Warriors]] build or tear down fortresses any quicker then they might have joined the "fuck Nikaea bandwagon" with gusto, but there are no recorded Iron Warriors Librarians after turning traitor either. Perturabo was pissed (as usual) that Big E used the coliseum he had been allowed to build for competitive events as a courtroom.

1d4chan>An0nym0us at 11:10, 22 December 2022

2022-12-22T11:10:51Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:10, 22 December 2022
Line 70:		Line 70:
	*[[Mortarion]] was already just about the biggest psyker hater in the universe, was one of the decree's strongest supporters. He had even informed by [[Malcador]] that the Emperor was planning to get rid of the Librarius about 70 years before the council even took place, giving him plenty of time to prepare for it. Hilariously, this backfired badly on him when he eventually realised that getting the Edict pushed through only weakened the loyalist's psykers; his allies were (mostly) letting their psykers run rampant with a whole new set of freakshow abilities. Things got so bad for him that he tried to get the librarian supporting Jaghatai Khan on his side. Jaghatai countered by attempting to carve the hypocrite out of Mortarion's pustuled arse. He then pillaged a Thousand Sons' library world and [[Wat\|actually summoned a demon]] [[just as planned\|whose sole purpose was to tempt him into using sorcery even more]]. [[fail\|It worked]], and Mortarion then [[derp\|yo-yoed between studying sorcery whilst pillaging every ritual device he could get his hands on, and smashing the various trinkets he acquired]]. It peaked with Molech before Mortarion tried to get back to first principles. Ironically due to his lack of people skills and his poor Psy-dar he never knew his [[Typhus\|second-in-command]] was a dirty warp burglar. First rule of management, get to know your people. [[Not as planned\|As final nail in his coffin]], he became a powerful Psyker himself when Granddaddy Nurgle adopted him.		*[[Mortarion]] was already just about the biggest psyker hater in the universe, was one of the decree's strongest supporters. He had even informed by [[Malcador]] that the Emperor was planning to get rid of the Librarius about 70 years before the council even took place, giving him plenty of time to prepare for it. Hilariously, this backfired badly on him when he eventually realised that getting the Edict pushed through only weakened the loyalist's psykers; his allies were (mostly) letting their psykers run rampant with a whole new set of freakshow abilities. Things got so bad for him that he tried to get the librarian supporting Jaghatai Khan on his side. Jaghatai countered by attempting to carve the hypocrite out of Mortarion's pustuled arse. He then pillaged a Thousand Sons' library world and [[Wat\|actually summoned a demon]] [[just as planned\|whose sole purpose was to tempt him into using sorcery even more]]. [[fail\|It worked]], and Mortarion then [[derp\|yo-yoed between studying sorcery whilst pillaging every ritual device he could get his hands on, and smashing the various trinkets he acquired]]. It peaked with Molech before Mortarion tried to get back to first principles. Ironically due to his lack of people skills and his poor Psy-dar he never knew his [[Typhus\|second-in-command]] was a dirty warp burglar. First rule of management, get to know your people. [[Not as planned\|As final nail in his coffin]], he became a powerful Psyker himself when Granddaddy Nurgle adopted him.
	*The [[Alpha Legion]] also ignored the edict like they did almost everything else. Officially, they disbanded the Librarius; unofficially, [[Alpharius]] and [[Omegon]] kept their Librarians around for special operations.		*The [[Alpha Legion]] also ignored the edict like they did almost everything else. Officially, they disbanded the Librarius; unofficially, [[Alpharius]] and [[Omegon]] kept their Librarians around for special operations.
	*[[Konrad Curze]] was said to have supported the use of Librarians, and was quite a potent psyker himself (though untrained and not fond of his abilities). ~~However~~, he never seemed to express any personal opinion on psykers, and appeared to have been almost completely neutral regarding the topic. However, despite his Legion having a significantly greater than normal proportion of psykers in their ranks, most of ~~his Astartes~~ seemed to dislike psykers in general. When the Edict came down, the [[Night Lords]] nominally accepted it but Curze seemingly didn't bother to enforce it. In fact, he apparently cared so little about the whole business that he ~~allowed individual company commanders~~ to ~~decide~~ what to do with ~~their Librarians~~. Most happily went along with the Edict (even going so far as to exile their Chief Librarian, who ironically was recruited into the Knight-Errants afterwards), but they occasionally dabbled in sorcery throughout the Heresy.		*[[Konrad Curze]] was said to have supported the use of Librarians, and was quite a potent psyker himself (though untrained and not fond of his abilities). Somewhat oddly, he never seemed to express any personal opinion on psykers, and appeared to have been almost completely neutral regarding the topic. However, despite his Legion having a significantly greater than normal proportion of psykers in their ranks, most of the Night Lords seemed to dislike psykers in general. When the Edict came down, the [[Night Lords]] nominally accepted it but Curze seemingly didn't bother to enforce it. In fact, he apparently cared so little about the whole business that he passed on the decision as to what to do with the Legion's psykers to his First Captain [[Jago Sevatarion\|Sevatar]]. Sevatar didn't care either, and so passed the decision in turn to individual company commanders. Most happily went along with the Edict (even going so far as to exile their Chief Librarian, who ironically was recruited into the Knight-Errants afterwards), but they occasionally dabbled in sorcery throughout the Heresy.
	* The [[Sons of Horus]] went along with the decree initially, but when they got their Heresy on, they learned sorcery quickly from the Word Bearers (through the Lodges) and were quick to use it openly and without restraint after Istvaan.		* The [[Sons of Horus]] went along with the decree initially, but when they got their Heresy on, they learned sorcery quickly from the Word Bearers (through the Lodges) and were quick to use it openly and without restraint after Istvaan.
	* [[Perturabo]] was against using Librarians, in fact it was noted as one of the only things that brought him and [[Rogal Dorn]] together. However his opposition to the Librarius initiative was one born of pragmatism rather than a dislike of psykers. He basically took the opposite view of Guilliman; where Guilliman believed the Librarians to be a useful military tool, Perturabo thought them to be a waste of time and resources. If it might have helped the [[Iron Warriors]] build or tear down fortresses any quicker then they might have joined the "fuck Nikaea bandwagon" with gusto, but there are no recorded Iron Warriors Librarians after turning traitor either. Perturabo was pissed (as usual) that Big E used the coliseum he had been allowed to build for competitive events as a courtroom.		* [[Perturabo]] was against using Librarians, in fact it was noted as one of the only things that brought him and [[Rogal Dorn]] together. However his opposition to the Librarius initiative was one born of pragmatism rather than a dislike of psykers. He basically took the opposite view of Guilliman; where Guilliman believed the Librarians to be a useful military tool, Perturabo thought them to be a waste of time and resources. If it might have helped the [[Iron Warriors]] build or tear down fortresses any quicker then they might have joined the "fuck Nikaea bandwagon" with gusto, but there are no recorded Iron Warriors Librarians after turning traitor either. Perturabo was pissed (as usual) that Big E used the coliseum he had been allowed to build for competitive events as a courtroom.