Dark Angels - Revision history

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2023-06-20T16:48:28Z

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2023-06-18T22:28:37Z

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128.154.221.109: /* The Dark Angels Fleet */

2023-06-08T06:30:13Z

The Dark Angels Fleet

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:30, 8 June 2023
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	Although they didn’t have the largest fleet nor have the largest number of capital ships (those honours belonged to legions like the [[Imperial Fists]] and the [[Iron Warriors]] respectively), the First may still have owned one of the most powerful fleets among the legions at that time. Chalk it up to the fact that they used a whole bunch of weapon designs that were left over from the Dark Age of Technology and had a large number of void fortresses that nobody else knew about. Which, by the way, means there may be hundreds or even thousands of Dark Angels Chapters in the void no one knows about as the legion creates its own (it did so publicly at least once that we know of and we know they can build their own everything). During the Thramas campaign, Sevatar’s reaction to seeing the full force of the First Legion's fleet bearing down upon the Night Lord's legion can be summed up as “well we're fucked, time to run away” (place obligatory Monty Python joke here). Even when the Lion headed towards Macragge, leaving the largest part of his fleet in the hands of Corswain, the fleet assets he took with him were still described as being enough to casually wipe out the defenses surrounding Guilliman's home and then split the world in two.		Although they didn’t have the largest fleet nor have the largest number of capital ships (those honours belonged to legions like the [[Imperial Fists]] and the [[Iron Warriors]] respectively), the First may still have owned one of the most powerful fleets among the legions at that time. Chalk it up to the fact that they used a whole bunch of weapon designs that were left over from the Dark Age of Technology and had a large number of void fortresses that nobody else knew about. Which, by the way, means there may be hundreds or even thousands of Dark Angels Chapters in the void no one knows about as the legion creates its own (it did so publicly at least once that we know of and we know they can build their own everything). During the Thramas campaign, Sevatar’s reaction to seeing the full force of the First Legion's fleet bearing down upon the Night Lord's legion can be summed up as “well we're fucked, time to run away” (place obligatory Monty Python joke here). Even when the Lion headed towards Macragge, leaving the largest part of his fleet in the hands of Corswain, the fleet assets he took with him were still described as being enough to casually wipe out the defenses surrounding Guilliman's home and then split the world in two.
	*Some of the fleet were armed with something similar to the Rift Cannons on the Dark Angels 40k Dark Talons but on a massive scale; such weapons would be devastating in a void combat environment.		*Some of the fleet were armed with something similar to the Rift Cannons on the Dark Angels 40k Dark Talons but on a massive scale; such weapons would be devastating in a void combat environment.
	*The Dark Angels legions fleet was almost never to be found in one place, instead it would be spread out into a large number of smaller fleets; however don't underestimate these fleets as each will contain some very old and ~~power~~ ships, dating all the way back to humanities golden age, and each fleet will be centred around a bloody [[Gloriana-class Battleship]] (that's right they had multiples of these things).		*The Dark Angels legions fleet was almost never to be found in one place, instead it would be spread out into a large number of smaller fleets; however don't underestimate these fleets as each will contain some very old and powerful ships, dating all the way back to humanities golden age, and each fleet will be centred around a bloody [[Gloriana-class Battleship]] (that's right they had multiples of these things).
	*The Lion would lead a fleet no larger then any other of the legion, as he wanted each fleet to be just as capable as his own. The fleet he is seen using during the Heresy numbered enough ships to sustain 20,000 marines; this combined with the current Dark Angels chapter fleet numbers, sustaining the supposed "1000" marines, we can get a rough bench mark for the size of Dark Angels legion fleets during the Crusade, however the Imperial Fists are said to have the largest fleet at over 15,000 warships. Due to the numbers that are traveling with the Lion, we can reasonably conclude that the Dark Angels had at least 10 main fleets operating at any given time during the Crusade.		*The Lion would lead a fleet no larger then any other of the legion, as he wanted each fleet to be just as capable as his own. The fleet he is seen using during the Heresy numbered enough ships to sustain 20,000 marines; this combined with the current Dark Angels chapter fleet numbers, sustaining the supposed "1000" marines, we can get a rough bench mark for the size of Dark Angels legion fleets during the Crusade, however the Imperial Fists are said to have the largest fleet at over 15,000 warships. Due to the numbers that are traveling with the Lion, we can reasonably conclude that the Dark Angels had at least 10 main fleets operating at any given time during the Crusade.

2A02:1810:4E2C:A900:E46D:77BB:EEC1:5E6F at 20:12, 3 June 2023

2023-06-03T20:12:16Z

Show changes

2A02:1808:86:7148:B9AA:3F51:357A:CF6C at 21:08, 26 May 2023

2023-05-26T21:08:45Z

63.193.173.39: /* Cool Shit */

2023-05-17T17:44:03Z

Cool Shit

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:44, 17 May 2023
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	*Short ranged Plasma Repeater carbines and Plasma Burners.		*Short ranged Plasma Repeater carbines and Plasma Burners.
	*Phosphex Incinerator cannons [[Awesome\|used by Naufragia Terminators]] of the [[Dreadwing]] according to ''Angels of Caliban'' (Phosphex was normally considered a horrible and dishonorable weapon, the Dark Angels don't give a fuck)		*Phosphex Incinerator cannons [[Awesome\|used by Naufragia Terminators]] of the [[Dreadwing]] according to ''Angels of Caliban'' (Phosphex was normally considered a horrible and dishonorable weapon, the Dark Angels don't give a fuck)
	* Inner Circle Knights Cenobium clad in Cataphracti Terminator Armour armed with [[Plasma-Caster]]s and either [[Terranic Greatsword]s or [[Thunder Hammers]]. Who were experts in their chosen fields of warfare.		* Inner Circle Knights Cenobium clad in Cataphracti Terminator Armour armed with [[Plasma-Caster]]s and either [[Power_weapon#Terranic_Greatsword\|Terranic Greatsword]]s or [[Thunder Hammers]]. Who were experts in their chosen fields of warfare.
	*A unique pattern of aircraft called a Swordstrike Interceptor which they might or might not still have		*A unique pattern of aircraft called a Swordstrike Interceptor which they might or might not still have
	*A unique type of super-heavy tank which acted as a mobile Void Shield generator called a "Portcullis Mono-track"		*A unique type of super-heavy tank which acted as a mobile Void Shield generator called a "Portcullis Mono-track"

63.193.173.39: /* Cool Shit */

2023-05-17T17:41:14Z

Cool Shit

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:41, 17 May 2023
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	*Short ranged Plasma Repeater carbines and Plasma Burners.		*Short ranged Plasma Repeater carbines and Plasma Burners.
	*Phosphex Incinerator cannons [[Awesome\|used by Naufragia Terminators]] of the [[Dreadwing]] according to ''Angels of Caliban'' (Phosphex was normally considered a horrible and dishonorable weapon, the Dark Angels don't give a fuck)		*Phosphex Incinerator cannons [[Awesome\|used by Naufragia Terminators]] of the [[Dreadwing]] according to ''Angels of Caliban'' (Phosphex was normally considered a horrible and dishonorable weapon, the Dark Angels don't give a fuck)
			* Inner Circle Knights Cenobium clad in Cataphracti Terminator Armour armed with [[Plasma-Caster]]s and either [[Terranic Greatsword]s or [[Thunder Hammers]]. Who were experts in their chosen fields of warfare.
	*A unique pattern of aircraft called a Swordstrike Interceptor which they might or might not still have		*A unique pattern of aircraft called a Swordstrike Interceptor which they might or might not still have
	*A unique type of super-heavy tank which acted as a mobile Void Shield generator called a "Portcullis Mono-track"		*A unique type of super-heavy tank which acted as a mobile Void Shield generator called a "Portcullis Mono-track"

1d4chan>BloopTube: /* The Unforgiven */

2023-05-14T18:47:40Z

The Unforgiven

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:47, 14 May 2023
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	== The Unforgiven ==		== The Unforgiven ==

	::''‘Listen well, initiates, for I bring light to the darkness. ~~It is~~''		::''‘Listen well, initiates, for I bring light to the darkness.''
	::''the weak-minded that crave comforts – the Dark Angels need''		::''It is the weak-minded that crave comforts – the Dark Angels need them not.''
	::''~~them not.~~ Wealth? The sons of the Lion covet no baubles, for''		::''Wealth? The sons of the Lion covet no baubles, for they are meaningless to us.''
	::''~~they are meaningless to us.~~ Sensual gratification? We know''		::''Sensual gratification? We know well its transitory nature. ''
	::''~~well its transitory nature.~~ Pride? We are no whelps of Russ.''		::''Pride? We are no whelps of Russ.''
	::''By our actions alone shall we be known.’		::''By our actions alone shall we be known.’
	::''- Brother-Chaplain Valeforr		::''- Brother-Chaplain Valeforr

66.31.137.144: Added Primaris Angelus Mortis as name

2023-05-09T15:57:36Z

Added Primaris Angelus Mortis as name

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:57, 9 May 2023
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	\|Number = I		\|Number = I
	\|Founding = [[First Founding]]		\|Founding = [[First Founding]]
	\|Original Name = Angels of Death, the Six Hosts, the Uncrowned Princes		\|Original Name = Angels of Death, the Six Hosts, the Uncrowned Princes, Primaris Angelus Mortis
	\|Successor Chapters = Hell of a lot; according to the [[Deathwatch]], Dark Angel successors make up about 15% of all Marines {{Blam\|+++completely autonomous+++}} Chapters, most notably the [[Blades of Vengeance]], [[Angels of Defiance]], [[Disciples of Caliban]], [[Consecrators]], [[Angels of Absolution]], [[Angels of Redemption]], [[Angels of Vengeance]],[[Guardians of the Covenant]], [[Bringers of Judgement]], [[Cowled Wardens]], [[Knights of Abhorrence]], [[Prime Absolvers]], [[Penintent Blades]] and [[The Unnamed]].		\|Successor Chapters = Hell of a lot; according to the [[Deathwatch]], Dark Angel successors make up about 15% of all Marines {{Blam\|+++completely autonomous+++}} Chapters, most notably the [[Blades of Vengeance]], [[Angels of Defiance]], [[Disciples of Caliban]], [[Consecrators]], [[Angels of Absolution]], [[Angels of Redemption]], [[Angels of Vengeance]],[[Guardians of the Covenant]], [[Bringers of Judgement]], [[Cowled Wardens]], [[Knights of Abhorrence]], [[Prime Absolvers]], [[Penintent Blades]] and [[The Unnamed]].
	\|Chapter Master = [[Azrael]].		\|Chapter Master = [[Azrael]].

63.193.173.46: /* Primaris Marines and suspicions renewed */

2023-05-05T11:22:14Z

Primaris Marines and suspicions renewed

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:22, 5 May 2023
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	They know that plausible deniability has its own merits. As Dark Angels and their successors are just way too good at what they do.		They know that plausible deniability has its own merits. As Dark Angels and their successors are just way too good at what they do.

	It'll also take a lot for Guilliman's traitorous brothers to piss him off to the point of using [[Destroyers]] [[Lorgar\|again]], [[Dreadwing\|maybe?]]. Although with the Lion back from his ten thousand year nap, he might be able to convince Bobby G to allow the Astartes to form at least a squad or two. ~~Maybe as~~ specialist Veteran ~~Company formation~~. ~~[[GrimDark\| Though~~ the best arguments against reactivating Destroyers is that even something as small(by Astartes standards) as a Plasma Burner or Rad Grenades will inevitably give Space Marine's cancer.]]		It'll also take a lot for Guilliman's traitorous brothers to piss him off to the point of using [[Destroyers]] [[Lorgar\|again]], [[Dreadwing\|maybe?]]. Although with the Lion back from his ten thousand year nap, he might be able to convince Bobby G to allow the Astartes to form at least a squad or two. As possible specialist formations in the Veteran/First Companies. However the best arguments against reactivating Destroyers is that even something as small(by Astartes standards) as a [[GrimDark\|Plasma Burner or Rad Grenades will inevitably give Space Marine's cancer.]]
	The best Inquisition and the Custodies will find is Old Night, Dark Age of Technology weapons and maybe some Fallen corpses. Azrael, Uncle Bobby, Lion and Cawl certainty wouldn't allow the Inquisition to have any pre-[[Great Crusade]] weapons & other technology stashed away in the bowls of in the Rock either.		The best Inquisition and the Custodies will find is Old Night, Dark Age of Technology weapons and maybe some Fallen corpses. Azrael, Uncle Bobby, Lion and Cawl certainty wouldn't allow the Inquisition to have any pre-[[Great Crusade]] weapons & other technology stashed away in the bowls of in the Rock either.

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:08, 26 May 2023
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	It’s important to bear in mind that the Dark Angels themselves do not have the whole story regarding {{Blam\|+++the traitor Marines from other legions+++}} and Caliban's {{Blam\|+++upgrade into being the most AWESOME SHIP+++}}. When the legion first arrived back at Caliban during the Scouring they would have been unaware of the events that had led up to Astelan ordering the attack on the fleet. After the destruction of Caliban they would have found themselves in a position where they had not only lost their Emperor and their Primarch but their home world as well. The legion had been tarnished beyond repair by those that they had once considered sworn brothers, and worst of all, they didn’t know why. All they had left was the Legion, and so the assembled masters of the Dark Angels decided to cover up what had happened in order to protect and preserve what was left of the once mighty First. They had been under the impression that the {{Blam\|+++traitor Marines who like to wear black+++}} had all been slain during the planet's destruction. Once {{Blam\|+++said traitors+++}} began to reappear it would prove to be a decision that would eventually end up damning them and all those that would follow. The present day Dark Angels are forced to shoulder the burdens and consequences of those decisions made so long ago that they themselves had taken no part in. Where in other chapters the ascension into the higher ranks is a thing of justified pride and honour, within the Unforgiven it is a soul-crushing experience as their delusions of honour and false glory are systematically torn down around them as the chapter's dark secrets are revealed to them one by one.		It’s important to bear in mind that the Dark Angels themselves do not have the whole story regarding {{Blam\|+++the traitor Marines from other legions+++}} and Caliban's {{Blam\|+++upgrade into being the most AWESOME SHIP+++}}. When the legion first arrived back at Caliban during the Scouring they would have been unaware of the events that had led up to Astelan ordering the attack on the fleet. After the destruction of Caliban they would have found themselves in a position where they had not only lost their Emperor and their Primarch but their home world as well. The legion had been tarnished beyond repair by those that they had once considered sworn brothers, and worst of all, they didn’t know why. All they had left was the Legion, and so the assembled masters of the Dark Angels decided to cover up what had happened in order to protect and preserve what was left of the once mighty First. They had been under the impression that the {{Blam\|+++traitor Marines who like to wear black+++}} had all been slain during the planet's destruction. Once {{Blam\|+++said traitors+++}} began to reappear it would prove to be a decision that would eventually end up damning them and all those that would follow. The present day Dark Angels are forced to shoulder the burdens and consequences of those decisions made so long ago that they themselves had taken no part in. Where in other chapters the ascension into the higher ranks is a thing of justified pride and honour, within the Unforgiven it is a soul-crushing experience as their delusions of honour and false glory are systematically torn down around them as the chapter's dark secrets are revealed to them one by one.

	The Dark Angels and their successors have spent the past 10,000 years hunting down {{Blam\|+++said traitors+++}}, slowly and painstakingly piecing together the pieces of an elaborate jigsaw of lies and deceit. Who knows who was responsible for what happened all those millennia ago. Was {{Blam\|+++this particular traitor and heretic+++}} one of the architects of the betrayal or was he just an unwitting pawn who was just following orders? And, if so, then who gave that order? As they have slowly filtered the lies from the truths and sifted through the many different contradicting {{Blam\|+++traitor's lies+++}}, the Dark Angels have uncovered many unsettling truths that had been unknown to them before. Yet the masters of the Unforgiven are aware that they do not have the full story and that there are still many dark revelations to come. Not least that the Black Legion includes (or included) {{Blam\|+++traitors wearing stolen Dark Angels armour in obviously Black Legion colors+++}}		The Dark Angels and their successors have spent the past 10,000 years hunting down {{Blam\|+++said traitors+++}}, slowly and painstakingly piecing together the pieces of an elaborate jigsaw of lies and deceit. Who knows who was responsible for what happened all those millennia ago. Was {{Blam\|+++this particular traitor and heretic+++}} one of the architects of the betrayal or was he just an unwitting pawn who was just following orders? And, if so, then who gave that order? As they have slowly filtered the lies from the truths and sifted through the many different contradicting {{Blam\|+++traitor's lies+++}}, the Dark Angels have uncovered many unsettling truths that had been unknown to them before. Yet the masters of the Unforgiven are aware that they do not have the full story and that there are still many dark revelations to come. Not least that the Black Legion includes (or included) {{Blam\|+++traitors wearing stolen Dark Angels armour in obviously Black Legion colors+++}}

	Unbeknownst to the Dark Angels, Lion El'Jonson is alive and well. After his duel with Luther we, the Watchers in the Dark, brought him to a hidden chamber in the depths of the Rock so he could be healed of his wounds. He is fully healed, and now all that is needed for the last loyal Primarch to return [[Games Workshop\|is for the Emperor to give him the signal to do so.]]		Unbeknownst to the Dark Angels, Lion El'Jonson is alive and well. After his duel with Luther we, the Watchers in the Dark, brought him to a hidden chamber in the depths of the Rock so he could be healed of his wounds. He is fully healed, and now all that is needed for the last loyal Primarch to return [[Games Workshop\|is for the Emperor to give him the signal to do so.]]
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	It transpires from Gav Thorpe's 2015 novel '''Unforgiven''' that the Inner Circle was in fact formed decades AFTER the [[Second Founding]] when [[Cypher]] revealed himself at [[The Rock]] and made it evident that survivors from Caliban who could reveal the truth of what happened would be dropping out of time and space. So the Grand Masters of the '''Twelve''' Second Founding chapters held a council and formed the Inner Circle to make sure their collective honour remained intact. Previous to that we must have assumed that the descendants of the First Legion were just relieved to have weathered the Horus Heresy and followed Guilliman's commands quietly.		It transpires from Gav Thorpe's 2015 novel '''Unforgiven''' that the Inner Circle was in fact formed decades AFTER the [[Second Founding]] when [[Cypher]] revealed himself at [[The Rock]] and made it evident that survivors from Caliban who could reveal the truth of what happened would be dropping out of time and space. So the Grand Masters of the '''Twelve''' Second Founding chapters held a council and formed the Inner Circle to make sure their collective honour remained intact. Previous to that we must have assumed that the descendants of the First Legion were just relieved to have weathered the Horus Heresy and followed Guilliman's commands quietly.

	All in all, the Dark Angels and their successors still function unofficially as a Legion. This gets the [[Inquisition]] and the [[High Lords of Terra]] particularly worried, though they can't prove anything since on the surface each chapter has its own distinct chain of command and adheres to [[Codex Astartes\|codex]] requirements.		All in all, the Dark Angels and their successors still function unofficially as a Legion. This gets the [[Inquisition]] and the [[High Lords of Terra]] particularly worried, though they can't prove anything since on the surface each chapter has its own distinct chain of command and adheres to [[Codex Astartes\|codex]] requirements.

	It's not known how large the collective Unforgiven actually is; [[Deathwatch (RPG)\|Statistics]] indicate that the Dark Angels successors make up around 15% of the total Space Marine chapters at large in the Imperium. While this does not seem like a massive amount ''([[Ultramarines\|Ultramarines]] make up around 50%-66%, depending on which author you ask)'' that would still be around 150 chapters. It is uncertain whether all of those chapters are actually aware of their history, given the Dark Angels prefer to have as few people with the damning knowledge as possible. Yet GW has never presented us with any Dark Angels successors who know of their heritage who are ''not'' part of the Unforgiven ''(the [[Astral Claws]], [[Relictors]] and [[Star Phantoms]] are all "maybes")'' so we can only assume that once you're in the club, you're in balls deep or you get erased.		It's not known how large the collective Unforgiven actually is; [[Deathwatch (RPG)\|Statistics]] indicate that the Dark Angels successors make up around 15% of the total Space Marine chapters at large in the Imperium. While this does not seem like a massive amount ''([[Ultramarines\|Ultramarines]] make up around 50%-66%, depending on which author you ask)'' that would still be around 150 chapters. It is uncertain whether all of those chapters are actually aware of their history, given the Dark Angels prefer to have as few people with the damning knowledge as possible. Yet GW has never presented us with any Dark Angels successors who know of their heritage who are ''not'' part of the Unforgiven ''(the [[Astral Claws]], [[Relictors]] and [[Star Phantoms]] are all "maybes")'' so we can only assume that once you're in the club, you're in balls deep or you get erased.

	What is known is that the Unforgiven are not beyond drafting new chapters without official sanction ''(like the [[Consecrators]])'' or outright blackmailing the seal of approval out of the High Lords ''(as with the [[Disciples of Caliban]])''. These chapters are raised with specific purposes in mind, and fill either supporting roles to the collective or are tasked with special missions that the others aren't prepared for. The officers of the successors also hold unique ranks and titles in the Inner Circle relevant to their Chapter's function or position within the Unforgiven. The best part is that no one can complain about it. The law is a thousand Marines per Chapter. It never said the Chapters couldn’t make their own new Chapters. It even encourages close co-operation and communication between Chapters so long as their command structures are separate. The First Legion operates more like a pseudo-Legion than the real thing. Each Chapter fulfills its role to the Legion and they support each other in whatever manner they choose while maintaining a strong feudal-like relationship with each other. There is no command structure in this “Legion” higher than any one Chapter. This functions well simply because these Marines are not dick-waving egotists. Perhaps this is where the High Lords’ and Inquisition’s confusion comes from. They see a bunch of Chapters behave like pieces of a larger legion, but there is no leadership, no orders, it’s entirely autonomous.		What is known is that the Unforgiven are not beyond drafting new chapters without official sanction ''(like the [[Consecrators]])'' or outright blackmailing the seal of approval out of the High Lords ''(as with the [[Disciples of Caliban]])''. These chapters are raised with specific purposes in mind, and fill either supporting roles to the collective or are tasked with special missions that the others aren't prepared for. The officers of the successors also hold unique ranks and titles in the Inner Circle relevant to their Chapter's function or position within the Unforgiven. The best part is that no one can complain about it. The law is a thousand Marines per Chapter. It never said the Chapters couldn’t make their own new Chapters. It even encourages close co-operation and communication between Chapters so long as their command structures are separate. The First Legion operates more like a pseudo-Legion than the real thing. Each Chapter fulfills its role to the Legion and they support each other in whatever manner they choose while maintaining a strong feudal-like relationship with each other. There is no command structure in this “Legion” higher than any one Chapter. This functions well simply because these Marines are not dick-waving egotists. Perhaps this is where the High Lords’ and Inquisition’s confusion comes from. They see a bunch of Chapters behave like pieces of a larger legion, but there is no leadership, no orders, it’s entirely autonomous.
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	In "The Unforgiven" (and hinted at throughout the trilogy), it is revealed that all Dark Angels are implanted with hypno code words to prevent another event like Caliban from ever happening again. Asmodai has to incapacitate [[Belial]] when he tries to kill [[Cypher]]. These code words can also be transmitted by a librarian directly into the minds of others. It would seem that a chaplain could unilaterally take command of whole companies of Dark Angels when Sapphon has to fight the urge to use one in a previous book on another captain. Also it involves the chaplain basically giving commands in Latin.		In "The Unforgiven" (and hinted at throughout the trilogy), it is revealed that all Dark Angels are implanted with hypno code words to prevent another event like Caliban from ever happening again. Asmodai has to incapacitate [[Belial]] when he tries to kill [[Cypher]]. These code words can also be transmitted by a librarian directly into the minds of others. It would seem that a chaplain could unilaterally take command of whole companies of Dark Angels when Sapphon has to fight the urge to use one in a previous book on another captain. Also it involves the chaplain basically giving commands in Latin.

	On the other hand, the Primaris Marines during "War of Secrets" didn't exactly help their course by being remarkably disobedient and downright disrespectful towards the Firstborn Marines, with some referring to the veterans as armored [[Ogryn\|Ogryns]] behind their backs. Nor did them referring to the Dark Angels as a Chapter built on lies and swearing to ''"get to the heart of it and expose it all"'', calling them traitors, and making statements like ''"You’ll get what you deserve soon enough. We Primaris Marines are the future and we will be the death of you"'' get them on the Dark Angels' good side. It’s weird for other reasons as well because outside of the Inner Circle the Unforgiven Marines aren’t any different than normal Marines. Other than their track record throughout the Imperium’s existence showing them to be significantly more competent at kicking ass on the tactical and strategic level. This means the Primaris wouldn’t have a reason to think anyone outside of a few individuals were in any way secretive or untrustworthy.		On the other hand, the Primaris Marines during "War of Secrets" didn't exactly help their course by being remarkably disobedient and downright disrespectful towards the Firstborn Marines, with some referring to the veterans as armored [[Ogryn\|Ogryns]] behind their backs. Nor did them referring to the Dark Angels as a Chapter built on lies and swearing to ''"get to the heart of it and expose it all"'', calling them traitors, and making statements like ''"You’ll get what you deserve soon enough. We Primaris Marines are the future and we will be the death of you"'' get them on the Dark Angels' good side. It’s weird for other reasons as well because outside of the Inner Circle the Unforgiven Marines aren’t any different than normal Marines. Other than their track record throughout the Imperium’s existence showing them to be significantly more competent at kicking ass on the tactical and strategic level. This means the Primaris wouldn’t have a reason to think anyone outside of a few individuals were in any way secretive or untrustworthy.

	Despite their initial reluctance in accepting the Primaris Marines, the Primaris Marines are very slowly and painfully earning their place among the Chapter. Those that prove themselves and demonstrate their loyalty to the Chapter may be inducted into the new Primaris Circle. Though they can not be brought into the full Inner Circle, it is only a matter of time.		Despite their initial reluctance in accepting the Primaris Marines, the Primaris Marines are very slowly and painfully earning their place among the Chapter. Those that prove themselves and demonstrate their loyalty to the Chapter may be inducted into the new Primaris Circle. Though they can not be brought into the full Inner Circle, it is only a matter of time.
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	*The Lion would lead a fleet no larger then any other of the legion, as he wanted each fleet to be just as capable as his own. The fleet he is seen using during the Heresy numbered enough ships to sustain 20,000 marines; this combined with the current Dark Angels chapter fleet numbers, sustaining the supposed "1000" marines, we can get a rough bench mark for the size of Dark Angels legion fleets during the Crusade, however the Imperial Fists are said to have the largest fleet at over 15,000 warships. Due to the numbers that are traveling with the Lion, we can reasonably conclude that the Dark Angels had at least 10 main fleets operating at any given time during the Crusade.		*The Lion would lead a fleet no larger then any other of the legion, as he wanted each fleet to be just as capable as his own. The fleet he is seen using during the Heresy numbered enough ships to sustain 20,000 marines; this combined with the current Dark Angels chapter fleet numbers, sustaining the supposed "1000" marines, we can get a rough bench mark for the size of Dark Angels legion fleets during the Crusade, however the Imperial Fists are said to have the largest fleet at over 15,000 warships. Due to the numbers that are traveling with the Lion, we can reasonably conclude that the Dark Angels had at least 10 main fleets operating at any given time during the Crusade.

	It makes sense that the Dark Angels fleet was on the larger end given that the majority of their successor chapters are Fleet based ''(the fact that being fleet based means that they are harder to keep track of and monitor is of course completely accidental and in no ways intended. After all, what could they possibly have to hide right?)'' However, by the time of 40k and their diminished status as a "Chapter", even when excluding [[The Rock]] itself their fleet capabilities are certainly above average when you compare raw numbers with other chapters. ''With 8 battle barges, 16 strike cruisers and 21 rapid strike vessels they are twice the size of the Ultramarines fleet and almost three times the size of the Blood Angels'.'' However the [[Space Wolves]] have a larger overall fleet and there has been little to no mention of their continued use of archeotech warships and weapons even amongst their successors. However, given that unlike everyone else the Dark Angels never forgot how to maintain and build stuff, it is likely that they and their successor Chapters' technologies never weakened anyway, including their ships. Aside from that, every other instance of degrading technology in 40k is pointed out to our faces, but this is never brought up regarding Dark Angels technology. In the ''Lion 'el Johnson, Lord of the First'' Primarch book, it's revealed that though the Dark Angels maintain good relations with the Mechanicus, they also make a point of familiarizing themselves with the workings of technology on their own, which allows them to be self-sufficient if nessessary, and develop technological insights not limited by the dogma of Sons of Mars. In addition to that, the Dark Angels, alone of probably all other Imperial forces (save for the [[Custodes\|Talons]] [[Sisters of Silence\|of The Emperor]]) are trusted with untold stores of archeotech so rare and powerful they're unknown to even the Mechanicus. A few notable examples being small arms that ''permakill'' daemons or corporeal beings with equal ease and even [[Grimdark\|sear them from memory]], DAoT planet-destroying capitol weaponry capable of [[Exterminatus]]-ing daemon worlds in the middle of a warp storm and yet '''STAY''' dead (something only previously seen from the [[Necrons]]), and [[awesome\|functional Men of Iron]]. All of which could only be brought to bare by the express order of The Lion himself, and perhaps by the Dreadwing in the time since his absence. This could go a long way to explaining what separates the Dark Angels and their successors from the rest of the Imperium, technologically speaking.		It makes sense that the Dark Angels fleet was on the larger end given that the majority of their successor chapters are Fleet based ''(the fact that being fleet based means that they are harder to keep track of and monitor is of course completely accidental and in no ways intended. After all, what could they possibly have to hide right?)'' However, by the time of 40k and their diminished status as a "Chapter", even when excluding [[The Rock]] itself their fleet capabilities are certainly above average when you compare raw numbers with other chapters. ''With 8 battle barges, 16 strike cruisers and 21 rapid strike vessels they are twice the size of the Ultramarines fleet and almost three times the size of the Blood Angels'.'' However the [[Space Wolves]] have a larger overall fleet and there has been little to no mention of their continued use of archeotech warships and weapons even amongst their successors. However, given that unlike everyone else the Dark Angels never forgot how to maintain and build stuff, it is likely that they and their successor Chapters' technologies never weakened anyway, including their ships. Aside from that, every other instance of degrading technology in 40k is pointed out to our faces, but this is never brought up regarding Dark Angels technology. In the ''Lion 'el Johnson, Lord of the First'' Primarch book, it's revealed that though the Dark Angels maintain good relations with the Mechanicus, they also make a point of familiarizing themselves with the workings of technology on their own, which allows them to be self-sufficient if nessessary, and develop technological insights not limited by the dogma of Sons of Mars. In addition to that, the Dark Angels, alone of probably all other Imperial forces (save for the [[Custodes\|Talons]] [[Sisters of Silence\|of The Emperor]]) are trusted with untold stores of archeotech so rare and powerful they're unknown to even the Mechanicus. A few notable examples being small arms that ''permakill'' daemons or corporeal beings with equal ease and even [[Grimdark\|sear them from memory]], DAoT planet-destroying capitol weaponry capable of [[Exterminatus]]-ing daemon worlds in the middle of a warp storm and yet '''STAY''' dead (something only previously seen from the [[Necrons]]), and [[awesome\|functional Men of Iron]]. All of which could only be brought to bare by the express order of The Lion himself, and perhaps by the Dreadwing in the time since his absence. This could go a long way to explaining what separates the Dark Angels and their successors from the rest of the Imperium, technologically speaking.

	It is important to note the Dark Angels are one of the very few chapters to still have a Gloriana-class ship, the ''Invincible Reason''. Additionally they do make almost exclusive use of the '''Hunter-Class Destroyer'''. Other chapters have access to the template, but the Dark Angels prefer it because they don't like getting their new fleet assets from the same sources as the Imperial Navy. So the Hunter is like a naval Cobra Destroyer; it acts like a small torpedo boat but is a bit more maneuverable and armoured.		It is important to note the Dark Angels are one of the very few chapters to still have a Gloriana-class ship, the ''Invincible Reason''. Additionally they do make almost exclusive use of the '''Hunter-Class Destroyer'''. Other chapters have access to the template, but the Dark Angels prefer it because they don't like getting their new fleet assets from the same sources as the Imperial Navy. So the Hunter is like a naval Cobra Destroyer; it acts like a small torpedo boat but is a bit more maneuverable and armoured.