Defiler - Revision history

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1d4chan>Derpysaurus: /* See Also */

2023-06-04T05:38:59Z

1d4chan>Derpysaurus: /* See Also */

2023-06-03T07:20:15Z

1d4chan>Derpysaurus: /* See Also */

2023-06-01T10:27:26Z

2A02:1810:4E2C:A900:B87B:B2A8:7019:FCD at 18:39, 10 May 2023

2023-05-10T18:39:21Z

1d4chan>Derpysaurus at 09:23, 1 January 2023

2023-01-01T09:23:27Z

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			{{Heresy}}
	[[Image:Defiler.jpg\|right\|300px\|thumb\|So here's this [[Meme\|giant enemy crab]].]]		[[Image:Defiler.jpg\|right\|300px\|thumb\|So here's this [[Meme\|giant enemy crab]].]]
	{{topquote\|[[Dude, Where's my Land Speeder?\|Relaaaaax. I'll invent new stuff. Like... spider robots with daemons in, and they have claws and stuff. They'll defile things. Maybe they can be called Defilotrons. It'll be sweet. And they'll have a gun on their chests, and tiny little heads. What? Why are you looking at me like that? You just wait. We'll rock this place all to hell.]]\|[[Abaddon the Despoiler]]}}		{{topquote\|[[Dude, Where's my Land Speeder?\|Relaaaaax. I'll invent new stuff. Like... spider robots with daemons in, and they have claws and stuff. They'll defile things. Maybe they can be called Defilotrons. It'll be sweet. And they'll have a gun on their chests, and tiny little heads. What? Why are you looking at me like that? You just wait. We'll rock this place all to hell.]]\|[[Abaddon the Despoiler]]}}

2A02:8071:4488:C8C0:ECC1:315F:C126:8E0 at 09:13, 14 November 2022

2022-11-14T09:13:07Z

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	{{Thousand Sons}}		{{Thousand Sons}}
	{{Emperor's Children}}		{{Emperor's Children}}
			{{World Eaters}}

	[[Category:Daemons]][[Category:Vehicles]]		[[Category:Daemons]][[Category:Vehicles]]

1d4chan>QuietBrowser: Since there's so much Dark Sun defiler stuff, moved it off to its own page.

2021-10-28T21:42:56Z

Since there's so much Dark Sun defiler stuff, moved it off to its own page.

Show changes

1d4chan>QuietBrowser: /* Elsewhere on /tg/ */

2021-10-17T16:04:29Z

Elsewhere on /tg/

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	Defilers are also one of the seven Houses appearing in [[Demon: The Fallen]]: the former angels of water and desire.		Defilers are also one of the seven Houses appearing in [[Demon: The Fallen]]: the former angels of water and desire.

			===Kits===
			[[Dragon Magazine]] #231 ran an article called "Defilers and Preservers", which offered an array of new [[kits]] specific to the [[wizard]]s of [[Dark Sun]]. It offered six kits in total; the Grey Chasseur (Huntsman) and Protector for Preservers, the Pale and the Slayer for Defilers, and finally the Obscure and the Relic Seeker, which could be taken by both.

			'''Obscures''' are [[Shadow Magic\|Shadow Mages]] specialized in espionage, investigation and defense. Most work alongside the Veiled Alliance, but others have taken up the cause of protecting and aiding all manner of groups or powerful individuals. They typically tend to be cold, distant, and devoted to the concept of balance. They favor a mixture of divination spells, spells relating to stealth and concealment, and spells that manipulate light and shadow, but avoid darkness spells, since shadows are cut off by the absence of light.
			::Base Class: Preserver or Preserver-turned-Defiler
			::Multiclassing/Dual-Classing: Yes
			::Available Races: Any Preserver capable ([[Human]], [[Elf]], [[Half-Elf]], [[Aarakocra]])
			::Ability Score Requirements: Constitution 15, Wisdom 16
			::Alignment Requirements: Any Neutral
			::Weapon Proficiencies: As per Wizard
			::Nonweapon Proficiencies: Planes Lore ''Bonus'', Path Lore ''Required'', ''Recommended'' Astrology, Bribery, Etiquette, Direction Sense, Fire-Building, Meditation, Mental Armor, Reading/Writing, Spellcraft
			::Special Benefits:
			:::Shadow Transmutation: At 3rd level, 20% of the obscure's body turns into living shadow. At each level, a further 5% transmutes, until 50% of the shadow wizard is pure shadow. The obscure can also cast Chill Touch 1/level each day by touching others with their shadow-flesh.
			:::Shadow Form: From 7th level, an obscure can assume a Shadow Form (as per the psychometabolic science) as a granted ability. They can take Shadow Form for a total number of turns per day equal to their level.
			:::Mystical Armor: From 9th level, an obscure's base AC becomes 5 against non-magical weapons.
			::Special Hindrances:
			:::Fickle Power Supply: An Obscure must make a Power Gathering Check, like a Defiler. Due to the extraplanar nature of their power source, they roll a D10 to determine the "terrain type" portion of that table; 1 = barren, 2-4 = infertile, 5-7 = fertile, 8-9 = abundant, 10 = lush. Basking in shadow when doing so grants +1 to the roll.
			:::Disturbing: An obscure suffers a -1 reaction penalty that increases to -2 at 4th level, -3 at 7th level, and -4 at 10th level. If other characters see the shadow stain gained at 3rd level, they must save vs. petrification or flee in terror.
			:::Shadow Fueled: If the obscure has no access to shadows, such as due to being enveloped in total darkness, they must make a Constitution check at -2 or suffer 1d4 damage. They must also cast spells through the standard method of being either a preserver or defiler, depending on their base class, until they regain access to shadows.
			:::Spiritual Strain: A shadow wizard must make a Constitution check whenever they gather power to fuel their spells; if they fail the check, they take 1d2 damage (if the "in play" power gathering method is used) or 1d6+1 (if the "off-stage/when memorizing" method is used). In the latter case, the shadow wizard fails to memorize their spells unless they repeat the process, which requires a second Constitution check; if this fails, then the shadow wizard cannot attempt to memorize spells for a 24 hour period.
			:::Patron's Whims: An obscure almost always has some kind of patron outside of their adventuring group, who will generally have 1 espionage-related mission every 2 months.

			'''Pales''' are Athasian [[Necromancer]]s devoted to mastery of the [[undead]] and to eventually becoming [[undead]] themselves. In contrast to the standard Athasian necromancer, who yearns to extend their life as long as possible, pales care only about power. That said, whilst officially required to be evil mechanically, nothing stops them from cooperating with the living, though you'll be on the antiheroic end of the scale even by Dark Sun standards. They favor a mixture of necromantic and offensive spells.
			::Base Class: Defiler
			::Multiclassing/Dual-Classing: No
			::Available Races: [[Human]], [[Half-Elf]]
			::Ability Requirements: Constitution 14, Wisdom 16
			::Weapon Proficiencies: All Wizard, plus any Bone weapon
			::Nonweapon Proficiencies: Planes Lore ''Bonus'', Ancient Languages ''Required'', ''Recommended'' Ancient History, Astrology, Bargain, Intimidation, Reading/Writing, Religion, Spellcraft
			::Special Benefits:
			:::Command Undead: When a pale encounters undead creatures, they can attempt to control them by passing a Command Undead check (5% per level + the Pale's Wisdom score). With unintelligent undead, the pale affects twice their level in Hit Dice and controls them for 1d6+1 rounds. With intelligent undead, their Command Undead skill is reduced by the creature's Hit Dice and the duration is only 1d4 rounds.
			:::Undead Companion: From 5th level, a pale is constantly attended to by a loyal undead minion. If this minion is destroyed, the pale gains a new one at their next level up. Initially, this minion is a [[skeleton]], but it becomes a standard [[zombie]] at 7th level, a Thinking Zombie at 9th level, and a Wracked Spirit from 13th level.
			:::Fear Not the Dead: A pale is immune to any fear effect caused by an undead, unless the undead's Hit Dice exceeds the pale's level by 3 or more.
			::Special Hindrances:
			:::Token Dependant: Obscures use obsidian shards imbued with trapped spiritual energy as a focus to connect them to the powers of the Gray. Without their obsidian shard focus, an obscure cannot draw power from the Gray and must instead use the normal Defiler rules for power generation. To create a focus requires a ritual that takes 1d4+2 days, culminating in a Wisdom check; success causes the pale to take 1d4+1 damage and succeed, failure causes the token to fail to form, and instead the wizard suffers 2d4+2 damage.
			:::Fickle Power Supply: An obsure must make a Power Gathering Check, like a Defiler. Due to the extraplanar nature of their power source, they roll a D10 to determine the "terrain type" portion of that table; 1 = barren, 2-4 = infertile, 5-7 = fertile, 8-9 = abundant, 10 = lush.
			:::Spiritual Strain: An obscure must make a Constitution check whenever they gather power to fuel their spells; if they fail the check, they take 1d2 damage (if the "in play" power gathering method is used) or 1d6+1 (if the "off-stage/when memorizing" method is used). In the latter case, the necromancer fails to memorize their spells unless they repeat the process, which requires a second Constitution check; if this fails, then the necromancer cannot attempt to memorize spells for a 24 hour period.
			:::Terrifying Mien: When a pale meets an NPC, the pale must succeed on a Save vs. Death Magic or else the NPC will flee in terror.

			'''Relic Seekers''' are the arcane scholars of Athas, adventurers in the classic sense; they'll go anywhere, brave any danger, to recover a relic, learn a new bit of information, or discover an ancient secret. They look for anything and everything that might grant them insight into the mysteries of the past. They typically favor a lot of divination and abjuration spells.
			::Base Class: Preserve or Defiler
			::Multiclassing/Dual-Classing: Multiclassed Wizard/Thief
			::Available Races: Any that can become Wizard
			::Ability Score Requirements: Intelligence 12 Wisdom 11
			::Alignment Requirement: Any Lawful
			::Weapon Proficiencies: As Wizard
			::Nonweapon Proficiencies: Ancient History, Ancient Languages ''Bonus'', Reading/Writing ''Required'', ''Recommended'' Appraising, Bribery, Etiquette, Direction Sense, Rope Use, Somatic Concealment, Teaching
			::Special Benefits:
			:::Foundational Trinket: A relic seeker starts play with a single minor magical items.
			:::Hoardbuilder: A relic seeker gains +5% experience for each magical item or ancient relic they collect.
			:::Identification: A relic seeker can attempt to identify if an item is either genuine or magical in nature with a 5% chance of success per level.
			:::Thief Skills: Starting at 3rd level, a relic seeker gains access to the [[Thief]] skills Open Locks, Find Traps, Climb Walls and Read Languages. They start with 0% in all of these, except for Read Languages (10%); 3rd level gives them 15 points to divvy up, and they gain thief skill points per level.
			::Special Hindrances:
			:::Curiosity Killed the Mekilot: Whenever a relic seeker picks up a rumor concerning a worthy item for their collection, they must succeed on a Wisdom check to avoid rushing off to find it at the first opportunity.
			:::Unearthly: A relic seeker suffers a -2 penalty to Initiative in the first round of combat, and is always surprised by combat unless in a ruin or while on a relic hunt.
			:::Forbidden Skillset: Remember; literacy is illegal in many places of the Tablelands, and the relic seeker often carries ancient relics of writing. They had best be careful not to give themselves away when in Urik or Nibenay.

			'''Slayers''' are defilers who take the obvious use of their powers and become arcane [[assassin]]s. Typically favoring the more subtle magics of necromancy, illusion and summoning magic - for obvious reasons, in a world that hates and fears magic, showy displays of killing magic demand higher price tags for self preservation - slayers are hated but valuable, much like the Athasian [[bard]]s.
			::Base Class: Defiler
			::Multiclassing: Yes
			::Available Races: [[Human]], [[Elf]], [[Half-Elf]]
			::Alignment Restrictions: Any Non-Good
			::Weapon Proficiencies: As per Wizard
			::Nonweapon Proficiencies: Somantic Concealment ''Bonus'', Spellcraft ''Required'', ''Recommended'' Bribery, Etiquette, Herbalism, Intimidation, Mental Armor, Reading/Writing, Spellweaving
			::Special Benefits: A slayer invariably has a powerful patron, typically a noble or a merchant lord, which grants them access to help, a ready supply of resources, and a useful contact.
			::Special Hindrances: Firstly, a slayer's patron will typically expect the slayer to perform 3-4 assassinations each year, and won't look kindly to being ignored or refused. Secondly, slayers are ''the'' most hated wizards on Athas, so a slayer has to go extra-far to cover up what they do, even beyond the standards of hiding their status as a wizard.

	[[Category:Daemons]][[Category:Vehicles]] [[Category: Dark Sun]]		[[Category:Daemons]][[Category:Vehicles]] [[Category: Dark Sun]]

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	{{World Eaters}}		{{World Eaters}}
	{{Black Legion}}		{{Black Legion}}
			{{Word Bearers}}
	{{Iron Warriors}}		{{Iron Warriors}}
	[[Category:Daemons]][[Category:Vehicles]]		[[Category:Daemons]][[Category:Vehicles]]

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	{{World Eaters}}		{{World Eaters}}
			{{Black Legion}}
	{{Iron Warriors}}		{{Iron Warriors}}
	[[Category:Daemons]][[Category:Vehicles]]		[[Category:Daemons]][[Category:Vehicles]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:27, 1 June 2023
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	{{World Eaters}}		{{World Eaters}}
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	But it's not all bad. Chaos Space Marines are nothing if not inventive. And thus they came up with a vehicle that is as horrifying to look at as to be attacked by - the Defiler.		But it's not all bad. Chaos Space Marines are nothing if not inventive. And thus they came up with a vehicle that is as horrifying to look at as to be attacked by - the Defiler.

	Often jokingly called a [[Meme\|giant enemy crab]], the '''Defiler''' was supposedly first conceived by [[Abaddon\|Failbaddon]], which would make it one of his only successes, but its true origins are tacitly believed to lie with the [[Word Bearers]]. The Defiler was made to provide Chaos Marine forces with a legitimate alternative to [[Tankred\|Dreadnoughts]] for close support; historically, Chaos dreadnoughts were made with older and less-perfected tech, ensuring that every single moment that the pilot was installed in his sarcophagus, he was [[grimdark\|set alight with horrifying agony]]. This generally results in Chaos Dreadnoughts having outbursts of pain-and-rage-induced [[Kharn\|Hulk Syndrome]] and fucking up every goddamned thing in sight.		Often jokingly called a [[Meme\|giant enemy crab]], the '''Defiler''' was supposedly first conceived by [[Abaddon\|Failbaddon]], which would make it one of his only successes, but its true origins are tacitly believed to lie with the [[Word Bearers]]. The Defiler was made to provide Chaos Marine forces with a legitimate alternative to [[Tankred\|Dreadnoughts]] for close support; historically, Chaos dreadnoughts were made with older and less-perfected tech, ensuring that every single moment that the pilot was installed in his sarcophagus, he was [[grimdark\|set alight with horrifying agony]]. This generally results in Chaos Dreadnoughts having outbursts of pain-and-rage-induced [[Kharn\|Hulk Syndrome]] and fucking up every goddamned thing in sight.

	Suffice to say, this was proving [[Matt Ward\|problematic]], and the Chaos marines sought a new way to get close-support that was less-likely to say, fire off a Plasma Cannon at its squadmates in a fit of rage over [[Manly Marines\|them not turning down the fucking Pat Benetar when the Dread's pilot has a headache]]. The answer came in an unexpected way - a Daemonically-Possessed machine with [[Troll\|no actual crew]], bound with rune-inscribed wards and sworn to obey its master. Whilst many daemons are driven halfway-mad by their imprisonment within the engine, the Defiler's occupant gets its head in the game when combat starts, showing blind loyalty to its master - and relishing in its power to blow things up and make shit dead (or re-dead in the case of the [[Necrons\|Crons]]).		Suffice to say, this was proving [[Matt Ward\|problematic]], and the Chaos marines sought a new way to get close-support that was less-likely to say, fire off a Plasma Cannon at its squadmates in a fit of rage over [[Manly Marines\|them not turning down the fucking Pat Benetar when the Dread's pilot has a headache]]. The answer came in an unexpected way - a Daemonically-Possessed machine with [[Troll\|no actual crew]], bound with rune-inscribed wards and sworn to obey its master. Whilst many daemons are driven halfway-mad by their imprisonment within the engine, the Defiler's occupant gets its head in the game when combat starts, showing blind loyalty to its master - and relishing in its power to blow things up and make shit dead (or re-dead in the case of the [[Necrons\|Crons]]).
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	==Overview==		==Overview==
	[[Image:Defiled.jpg\|right\|350px\|thumb\|Interestingly, [[Dark Eldar\|it looks like they are making out some weird mechanical mating ritual...kinky]]]]		[[Image:Defiled.jpg\|right\|350px\|thumb\|Interestingly, [[Dark Eldar\|it looks like they are making out some weird mechanical mating ritual...kinky]]]]
	The Defiler is a powerful beast. By default it's got as much armor as a Dreadnought, has 2 <strike>Dreadnought Close-Combat weapons</strike> [[Power weapon#Defiler Power Claw\|''Defiler'' power claws]], a [[Battle Cannon]], a [[Reaper Autocannon]], and a [[Heavy Flamer]] - quite a bundle of weapons for both close-combat and ranged assaults. Even better, it's highly upgradeable - the Reaper Autocannon can be replaced with a [[Twin-Linked]] [[Heavy Bolter]] (for shredding infantry) or [[Twin-Linked]] [[Lascannon]] (for vehicle-busting). It can also exchange its Heavy Flamer for a [[Havoc Launcher]], enabling it to launch reasonably-effective frag missiles out to a long distance for additional fire-support. Additionally, you can tack a second Havoc Launcher on the side to flick some extra rockets. To make it even better it's been given Daemonic Possession, which means it's almost immune to Crew Shaken/Crew Stunned results, and has a 5+ invulnerable save. Topping it all off, it has solid armor (AV 12 front and side armor), with only its rear armor being a vulnerable point (AV 10) and 4 hull points, giving it some pretty decent staying power.		The Defiler is a powerful beast. By default it's got as much armor as a Dreadnought, has 2 <strike>Dreadnought Close-Combat weapons</strike> [[Power weapon#Defiler Power Claw\|''Defiler'' power claws]], a [[Battle Cannon]], a [[Reaper Autocannon]], and a [[Heavy Flamer]] - quite a bundle of weapons for both close-combat and ranged assaults. Even better, it's highly upgradeable - the Reaper Autocannon can be replaced with a [[Twin-Linked]] [[Heavy Bolter]] (for shredding infantry) or [[Twin-Linked]] [[Lascannon]] (for vehicle-busting). It can also exchange its Heavy Flamer for a [[Havoc Launcher]], enabling it to launch reasonably-effective frag missiles out to a long distance for additional fire-support. Additionally, you can tack a second Havoc Launcher on the side to flick some extra rockets. To make it even better it's been given Daemonic Possession, which means it's almost immune to Crew Shaken/Crew Stunned results, and has a 5+ invulnerable save. Topping it all off, it has solid armor (AV 12 front and side armor), with only its rear armor being a vulnerable point (AV 10) and 4 hull points, giving it some pretty decent staying power.

	Alternately, it can exchange the Reaper Autocannon for an additional power claw, giving it +1 attack for each, and giving it a walloping 5 attacks on-the-charge. He can also exchange Heavy Flamers for a [[Power weapon#Power Scourge\|power scourge]], which could add another +1A (if you chose to use it's profile- its "only" S8 compared to the claws S10), and also lowers the WS of enemy models in BtB contact, which is cool, considering Defilers own pathetic WS3. Paired with the fact that it has '''Fleet''', this makes the Defiler capable of causing serious damage to anything unfortunate enough to get caught up in its crabby claws, especially commander units and vehicles.		Alternately, it can exchange the Reaper Autocannon for an additional power claw, giving it +1 attack for each, and giving it a walloping 5 attacks on-the-charge. He can also exchange Heavy Flamers for a [[Power weapon#Power Scourge\|power scourge]], which could add another +1A (if you chose to use it's profile- its "only" S8 compared to the claws S10), and also lowers the WS of enemy models in BtB contact, which is cool, considering Defilers own pathetic WS3. Paired with the fact that it has '''Fleet''', this makes the Defiler capable of causing serious damage to anything unfortunate enough to get caught up in its crabby claws, especially commander units and vehicles.

	Whether you use it as a shooty walker, a melee-only walker, or some blend between the two (it can easily pull double-duty), the <strike>Giant Enemy Crab</strike> Defiler is guaranteed to be [[Distraction carnifex\|a giant fire-magnet]], and enemies will devote truly [[Derp\|retarded]] amounts of weaponry in an effort to [[meme\|hit its weak-point for massive damage]]. Unless they have a Lascannon type weapon, then they just one shot the damned thing, since it's not hard to land a shot on the back from far enough away.		Whether you use it as a shooty walker, a melee-only walker, or some blend between the two (it can easily pull double-duty), the <strike>Giant Enemy Crab</strike> Defiler is guaranteed to be [[Distraction carnifex\|a giant fire-magnet]], and enemies will devote truly [[Derp\|retarded]] amounts of weaponry in an effort to [[meme\|hit its weak-point for massive damage]]. Unless they have a Lascannon type weapon, then they just one shot the damned thing, since it's not hard to land a shot on the back from far enough away.

	In its standard configuration, it is good at every task but it doesn't exactly excel at any of them. It will lose out if made to compete against a more specialized vehicle of its size. So it will be outdone at long and medium range by a hellfire dreadnought, out-artillery'd by a basilisk or whirlwind, and out-melee'd by a crushing claw carnifex or pair of deffdread (you can field two with 4 DCCW's and riggers for exactly same points). But it makes up for this by being able to perform just about every needed task with the exception of anti-air duty, and if it has [[Twin-Linked]] [[Autocannon]]s or [[Lascannon]]s even this is debatable, though the lack of the anti-air rule hurts quite a bit. Mind, when dealing with actual Forge World-made aircraft, a Havoc Squad full of Autocannons or Flak Missile Launchers is usually the best option for the points, since Chaos lacks any dedicated anti-air vehicles, heldrake notwithstanding.		In its standard configuration, it is good at every task but it doesn't exactly excel at any of them. It will lose out if made to compete against a more specialized vehicle of its size. So it will be outdone at long and medium range by a hellfire dreadnought, out-artillery'd by a basilisk or whirlwind, and out-melee'd by a crushing claw carnifex or pair of deffdread (you can field two with 4 DCCW's and riggers for exactly same points). But it makes up for this by being able to perform just about every needed task with the exception of anti-air duty, and if it has [[Twin-Linked]] [[Autocannon]]s or [[Lascannon]]s even this is debatable, though the lack of the anti-air rule hurts quite a bit. Mind, when dealing with actual Forge World-made aircraft, a Havoc Squad full of Autocannons or Flak Missile Launchers is usually the best option for the points, since Chaos lacks any dedicated anti-air vehicles, heldrake notwithstanding.

	==The Drawbacks==		==The Drawbacks==
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	Secondly, the Defiler's being Demonically possessed means its WS and BS are only 3 - average at best compared to the good accuracy of most Marine units and vehicles. Whilst every non-battle cannon weapon the Defiler can mount is twin-linked (ergo reducing the problems it may have with accuracy), the close-combat weapons it has are not so fortunate, causing the Defiler to rely on [[Dakka\|volume and sheer force]] to damage enemies in [[Choppa\|close-combat]] (it will miss about half the time on average, but will fuck up whatever it hits when it does).		Secondly, the Defiler's being Demonically possessed means its WS and BS are only 3 - average at best compared to the good accuracy of most Marine units and vehicles. Whilst every non-battle cannon weapon the Defiler can mount is twin-linked (ergo reducing the problems it may have with accuracy), the close-combat weapons it has are not so fortunate, causing the Defiler to rely on [[Dakka\|volume and sheer force]] to damage enemies in [[Choppa\|close-combat]] (it will miss about half the time on average, but will fuck up whatever it hits when it does).

	Thirdly, the Defiler, due to its very large size and middling accuracy, is surprisingly vulnerable to being [[Tarpit]]ted. This is because even with its considerable melee punch and fleet, it is particularly large and vulnerable to being tied up by expendable dick units like [[Tarpit\|Conscript Squads]] <s>(especially if they're used by a certain general who can replace them for free)</s>, Termagaunts, Scarabs, or Kroot which force it to spend valuable time mulching them as opposed to doing its valued job of raping vehicles and commander units. Take care to make sure that the Defiler is kept out of melee range of tarpits unless it's actively trying to get stuck in or it has melee support that can clear the way. With those new [[Necron]] Scarab rules, you should <s>probably</s> definitely avoid leaving your Defiler anywhere near a horde of those little vehicle-eating buggers. Also, if it meets a terminator squad with a chainfist or two it's probably going to get its shit pushed in. Hammernators can also take it down over the course of a couple of turns - but if it does engage them, [[Tarpit\|it will actually be keeping them from hammering the rest of the army to bits]].		Thirdly, the Defiler, due to its very large size and middling accuracy, is surprisingly vulnerable to being [[Tarpit]]ted. This is because even with its considerable melee punch and fleet, it is particularly large and vulnerable to being tied up by expendable dick units like [[Tarpit\|Conscript Squads]] <s>(especially if they're used by a certain general who can replace them for free)</s>, Termagaunts, Scarabs, or Kroot which force it to spend valuable time mulching them as opposed to doing its valued job of raping vehicles and commander units. Take care to make sure that the Defiler is kept out of melee range of tarpits unless it's actively trying to get stuck in or it has melee support that can clear the way. With those new [[Necron]] Scarab rules, you should <s>probably</s> definitely avoid leaving your Defiler anywhere near a horde of those little vehicle-eating buggers. Also, if it meets a terminator squad with a chainfist or two it's probably going to get its shit pushed in. Hammernators can also take it down over the course of a couple of turns - but if it does engage them, [[Tarpit\|it will actually be keeping them from hammering the rest of the army to bits]].

	Fourthly, it has awful armor, at least for the cost. No really, 12/12/10 is just crappy for a 195+ points vehicle, especially in this day and age. Even with 4 hull points and a 5++ save an enemy with moderate firepower can down the thing in a single turn without focusing much firepower on it. Also because the battle cannon is ordnance so if you actually do use it the other guns you put on it will be shooting at BS1; making them of very dubious usefulness. And you didn't spend 195 points for a poor man's Leman Russ battletank that's a bigger target, can't be taken in squads, much more fragile, and significantly more expensive. Its ranged firepower is also very...schizophrenic to be charitable. Even disregarding the effects using the battlecannon will have on your accuracy; the heavy flamer is an extremely short ranged weapon meant to kill infantry; the Battle cannon is a long ranged weapon optimized for killing MEQs and the reaper autocannon is a mid ranged weapon meant to kill light vehicles (though with two shots at 195 points you're probably better off investing in a forgefiend). What's worse is that you can't really make the ranged weapon loadout more focused since your options to replace the heavy flamer is a havoc launcher; though swapping out the autocannon for a lascannon isn't the best build either (again, you'd be paying 195 pts for one shot). The most "focused" ranged build would have the havoc launcher and heavy bolters to maximize on mulching infantry but at the end of the day, for the price you're paying it's still not very stellar anti-infantry firepower.		Fourthly, it has awful armor, at least for the cost. No really, 12/12/10 is just crappy for a 195+ points vehicle, especially in this day and age. Even with 4 hull points and a 5++ save an enemy with moderate firepower can down the thing in a single turn without focusing much firepower on it. Also because the battle cannon is ordnance so if you actually do use it the other guns you put on it will be shooting at BS1; making them of very dubious usefulness. And you didn't spend 195 points for a poor man's Leman Russ battletank that's a bigger target, can't be taken in squads, much more fragile, and significantly more expensive. Its ranged firepower is also very...schizophrenic to be charitable. Even disregarding the effects using the battlecannon will have on your accuracy; the heavy flamer is an extremely short ranged weapon meant to kill infantry; the Battle cannon is a long ranged weapon optimized for killing MEQs and the reaper autocannon is a mid ranged weapon meant to kill light vehicles (though with two shots at 195 points you're probably better off investing in a forgefiend). What's worse is that you can't really make the ranged weapon loadout more focused since your options to replace the heavy flamer is a havoc launcher; though swapping out the autocannon for a lascannon isn't the best build either (again, you'd be paying 195 pts for one shot). The most "focused" ranged build would have the havoc launcher and heavy bolters to maximize on mulching infantry but at the end of the day, for the price you're paying it's still not very stellar anti-infantry firepower.

	The Defiler's ranged firepower is extremely weak for a model of its size, fragility, and points cost the current meta having been left far behind by power creep. If you're just using the battle cannon, you are paying far more points for something that the Imperial Guard can have three of per heavy support slot from a platform more effectively able to use it that's also more compact (and thus easier to hide) and has AV14. This is a terrible usage of your points and the Battle Cannon is not particularly stellar to begin with, being at best "okay" against vehicles and in a meta with cover and invulnerable saves out the ass everywhere you'll get pretty disappointing results shooting against infantry. The other guns can't really be used with the battle cannon due to the ordnance rules, and if you're just using them you're paying a ton of points for very little dakka. In melee, the Defiler is let down by bad WS, most of the things that the Defiler would want to be in assault with either being able to zip away before the Defiler can ever touch it, being able to tar pit it with sheer numbers, can reduce it to dust with haywire grenade spam, or would strike first with what is quite possibly a D-strength or Armorbane weapon and promptly punch the Defiler's head straight out its ass. Defilers are not a waste of your heavy support slot, but it is best to wait until the next codex and hope that someone in GW decides they need to sell more defilers and give them 6e wave serpent esque buffs.		The Defiler's ranged firepower is extremely weak for a model of its size, fragility, and points cost the current meta having been left far behind by power creep. If you're just using the battle cannon, you are paying far more points for something that the Imperial Guard can have three of per heavy support slot from a platform more effectively able to use it that's also more compact (and thus easier to hide) and has AV14. This is a terrible usage of your points and the Battle Cannon is not particularly stellar to begin with, being at best "okay" against vehicles and in a meta with cover and invulnerable saves out the ass everywhere you'll get pretty disappointing results shooting against infantry. The other guns can't really be used with the battle cannon due to the ordnance rules, and if you're just using them you're paying a ton of points for very little dakka. In melee, the Defiler is let down by bad WS, most of the things that the Defiler would want to be in assault with either being able to zip away before the Defiler can ever touch it, being able to tar pit it with sheer numbers, can reduce it to dust with haywire grenade spam, or would strike first with what is quite possibly a D-strength or Armorbane weapon and promptly punch the Defiler's head straight out its ass. Defilers are not a waste of your heavy support slot, but it is best to wait until the next codex and hope that someone in GW decides they need to sell more defilers and give them 6e wave serpent esque buffs.

	'''8th Edition'''		'''8th Edition'''

	8th Ed brings with it much needed changes for the Defiler that are probably going to improve it a lot. Under the new vehicle rules it has 14 Wounds, Toughness 7 and 3+/5++ armour save, putting it around a Leman Russ in survivability (Lemanators have T8 but 12 Wounds), and can move 8", not bad for an enormous angry space crab. Changes to twin-linked and template weapons are also going to help. Twin-linked has changed in that it's been removed, so now all twin weapons are just two of those weapons. With templates gone, Twin Heavy Flamers have 2D6 attacks, all of which auto-hit. Literally you'll be able to insta-scorch entire squads of dudes and then, because units can now fire all their weapons AND fire them at different targets entirely, you can lay waste to some other shit with your other weapons, and they'll be -1 to hit instead of snap firing.		8th Ed brings with it much needed changes for the Defiler that are probably going to improve it a lot. Under the new vehicle rules it has 14 Wounds, Toughness 7 and 3+/5++ armour save, putting it around a Leman Russ in survivability (Lemanators have T8 but 12 Wounds), and can move 8", not bad for an enormous angry space crab. Changes to twin-linked and template weapons are also going to help. Twin-linked has changed in that it's been removed, so now all twin weapons are just two of those weapons. With templates gone, Twin Heavy Flamers have 2D6 attacks, all of which auto-hit. Literally you'll be able to insta-scorch entire squads of dudes and then, because units can now fire all their weapons AND fire them at different targets entirely, you can lay waste to some other shit with your other weapons, and they'll be -1 to hit instead of snap firing.

	The Defiler's options now include being able to replace the Twin Heavy Flamers with a Havoc Launcher or a Defiler Scourge, and replacing the Reaper Autocannon with Twin Heavy Bolters or twin Lascannons. This gives the Defiler some really good flexibility to deal with almost anything it can face. The Havoc Launcher really is shit but the Defiler Scourge now lets you deal three additional S12 attacks dealing 3 damage each, while the Defiler Claws now hit at Strength 16 and do D6 damage each, giving it a good defense against MC or Terminator tarpits, while rocking Heavy Bolters and Heavy Flamers will lead to hilarious [[RAGE]] from swarm players who try to charge it. Of course, changes to 8th now effectively negate tarpitting as any unit can simply walk out of combat, requiring your opponent to repeatedly get hit with a ton of heavy flamer attacks every turn if they want to keep it tied down.		The Defiler's options now include being able to replace the Twin Heavy Flamers with a Havoc Launcher or a Defiler Scourge, and replacing the Reaper Autocannon with Twin Heavy Bolters or twin Lascannons. This gives the Defiler some really good flexibility to deal with almost anything it can face. The Havoc Launcher really is shit but the Defiler Scourge now lets you deal three additional S12 attacks dealing 3 damage each, while the Defiler Claws now hit at Strength 16 and do D6 damage each, giving it a good defense against MC or Terminator tarpits, while rocking Heavy Bolters and Heavy Flamers will lead to hilarious [[RAGE]] from swarm players who try to charge it. Of course, changes to 8th now effectively negate tarpitting as any unit can simply walk out of combat, requiring your opponent to repeatedly get hit with a ton of heavy flamer attacks every turn if they want to keep it tied down.