Fallen Angels - Revision history

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2600:1006:B137:F9B2:B97B:D5A8:3E19:F06: /* Grey Knights */

2023-06-08T20:52:06Z

Grey Knights

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:52, 8 June 2023
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	==Grey Knights==		==Grey Knights==
	More than any other Chapter, the Dark Angels and the Unforgiven fear what would happen if the [[Grey Knights]] should become involved with a hunt for the Fallen Angels. Making Inquisitors or even fellow Space Marines "disappear" or "dying due to battle circumstances we couldn't have prevented" is one thing. Trying to do the same to Space Marines from a Chapter designed to fight and kill [[Daemon]]s? Near suicidal, even by 40k standards.		More than any other Chapter, the Dark Angels and the Unforgiven fear what would happen if the [[Grey Knights]] should become involved with a hunt for the Fallen Angels. Making Inquisitors or even fellow Space Marines "disappear" or "dying due to battle circumstances we couldn't have prevented" is one thing. Trying to do the same to Space Marines from a Chapter designed to fight and kill [[Daemon]]s? Near suicidal, even by 40k standards. For anyone other than the Dark Angels. In their case it is probably more fear of crossing the line into outright treason along with knowing the damage their legion’s power could cause to the Imperium if unleashed.

	However, as revealed in the novel ''Pandorax'', it's irrelevant. When the [[Black Legion]] attempted to open an ancient warp portal the Grey Knights were sent to the planet Pythos in order to seal the breach and deal with the demonic incursion, Supreme Grand Master Draigo was unable to wait for reinforcements from among his own forces due to his Chapter being scattered around the Imperium in response to a myriad of daemonic threats, instead he opted to enact an old oath sworn to the Grey Knights by the Dark Angels.		However, as revealed in the novel ''Pandorax'', it's irrelevant. When the [[Black Legion]] attempted to open an ancient warp portal the Grey Knights were sent to the planet Pythos in order to seal the breach and deal with the demonic incursion, Supreme Grand Master Draigo was unable to wait for reinforcements from among his own forces due to his Chapter being scattered around the Imperium in response to a myriad of daemonic threats, instead he opted to enact an old oath sworn to the Grey Knights by the Dark Angels.

	[[Azrael]] had initially refused to honour the pact, considering it to be tantamount to blackmail. His mind was soon changed when Draigo revealed an interesting nugget of information gleaned from interrogating a Traitor Astartes prisoner who revealed that he knew about Traitor Space Marines the Dark Angels had captured and now kept up on [[the Rock]]. Draigo was well aware that the Dark Angels would go to great lengths to protect their secrets and although he was unaware of the reasons why they would have such a vested interest in those imprisoned beneath the Rock he could still make an informed guess as to the nature of those secrets.		[[Azrael]] had initially refused to honour the pact, considering it to be tantamount to blackmail. His mind was soon changed when Draigo revealed an interesting nugget of information gleaned from interrogating a Traitor Astartes prisoner who revealed that he knew about Traitor Space Marines the Dark Angels had captured and now kept up on [[the Rock]]. Draigo was well aware that the Dark Angels would go to great lengths to protect their secrets and although he was unaware of the reasons why they would have such a vested interest in those imprisoned beneath the Rock he could still make an informed guess as to the nature of those secrets. And probably rather liked the idea of the Dark Angels hunting down and punishing traitors.

	It was not the possible knowledge of the Fallen that had motivated Azrael and his chapter, but rather the Grey Knight's knowledge of the methods employed by the Dark Angels to keep their secrets hidden, that ultimately ensured they honoured the ancient pact struck with the Grey Knights. And so the leader of the Dark Angels committed his entire Chapter to the Pandorax campaign, operational superiority the Grey Knight’s sole concession in exchange for cooperation. Though they were nominally allies, the relationship between the two Chapters had always been fractious, never spilling over into confrontation but coming near on more than one occasion. Being forced to operate so closely together would put that to the test once again, more so in light of the circumstances of their alliance.		It was not the possible knowledge of the Fallen that had motivated Azrael and his chapter, but rather the Grey Knight's knowledge of the methods employed by the Dark Angels to keep their secrets hidden, that ultimately ensured they honoured the ancient pact struck with the Grey Knights. And so the leader of the Dark Angels committed his entire Chapter to the Pandorax campaign, operational superiority the Grey Knight’s sole concession in exchange for cooperation. Though they were nominally allies, the relationship between the two Chapters had always been fractious, never spilling over into confrontation but coming near on more than one occasion. Being forced to operate so closely together would put that to the test once again, more so in light of the circumstances of their alliance.

	Several times in the book, Draigo warns Azrael that the Dark Angels will not interfere in his operations, or he will go straight to the [[High Lords of Terra]] and tell the High Lords about what the Dark Angels are doing. Azrael considers the threat so real that he commits the ''entire'' Dark Angels chapter (over nine hundred Astartes and nearly one hundred Neophyte Scouts) to the threat. However, that being said, let's be real here: for all the weight the word of the Grey Knights and Draigo's in particular may carry, the chances of the High Lords taking any meaningful action against a First Founding chapter are miniscule, and the Dark Angels are the '''FIRST''' of the First Founding, which only increases the un-likelihood. Many would likely see such actions as defying the will of the Emperor himself, and they wouldn't be unjustified for believing so. The only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn is that Draigo is [[TTS\|high on narcotics]].		Several times in the book, Draigo warns Azrael that the Dark Angels will not interfere in his operations, or he will go straight to the [[High Lords of Terra]] and tell the High Lords about what the Dark Angels are doing. Azrael considers the threat so real that he commits the ''entire'' Dark Angels chapter (over nine hundred Astartes and nearly one hundred Neophyte Scouts) to the threat. However, that being said, let's be real here: for all the weight the word of the Grey Knights and Draigo's in particular may carry, the chances of the High Lords taking any meaningful action against a First Founding chapter are miniscule, and the Dark Angels are the '''FIRST''' of the First Founding, which only increases the un-likelihood. Especially with complete lack of evidence other than the word of an interrogated traitor who has every reason to sow as much dissent as he can. Many would likely see such actions as defying the will of the Emperor himself, and they wouldn't be unjustified for believing so. The only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn is that Draigo is [[TTS\|high on narcotics]]. Plus, screwing with Imperials to get to traitors and punish them isn’t exactly something the High Lords would be bothered by. They’re a bunch of fanatics, too.

	So yes, the Grey Knights ''"should"'' already be aware of the touchy history of Caliban, but for all intents and purposes, they don't care or haven't actually figured out what it all means yet, and to be fair, for all the memes, the Dark Angels are able to keep secrets in a way that even the Alpha Legion could admire. Kaldor Draigo never actually claimed to know about the Fallen or about what happened on Caliban. In fact at the end of the Pandorax campaign, Draigo is seen screaming in Azrael's face demanding to know who these mysterious prisoners are and why the Dark Angels are so interested in them. Though to Azrael's credit, he ''actually'' doesn't have a clue why Draigo is so upset, since the Dark Angels didn't actually know about the particular Fallen Angel in question, who turned out to be an [[Zahariel#Not_Cypher.3F_If_then_Who.3F\|original]] Grey Knight Founder and was kidnapped by [[Abaddon]] instead.		So yes, the Grey Knights ''"should"'' already be aware of the touchy history of Caliban, but for all intents and purposes, they don't care or haven't actually figured out what it all means yet, and to be fair, for all the memes, the Dark Angels are able to keep secrets in a way that even the Alpha Legion could admire. Kaldor Draigo never actually claimed to know about the Fallen or about what happened on Caliban. In fact at the end of the Pandorax campaign, Draigo is seen screaming in Azrael's face demanding to know who these mysterious prisoners are and why the Dark Angels are so interested in them. Though to Azrael's credit, he ''actually'' doesn't have a clue why Draigo is so upset, since the Dark Angels didn't actually know about the particular Fallen Angel in question, who turned out to be an [[Zahariel#Not_Cypher.3F_If_then_Who.3F\|original]] Grey Knight Founder and was kidnapped by [[Abaddon]] instead.

2A02:1810:4E2C:A900:6131:1E26:C449:F533 at 19:44, 2 June 2023

2023-06-02T19:44:54Z

Show changes

1d4chan>ThatOneBruvva: /* The Risen arrive? */

2023-05-11T01:20:16Z

The Risen arrive?

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:20, 11 May 2023
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	The Imperium campaign sees Spire answering the request for aid by a ‘Dark Angel’ in Caliban space using old codes and colors. Spire fights alongside this ‘Dark Angel’ named Osmadiel, who’s grateful for the aid and unusually bro-tier for a ‘Dark Angel’. After another Dark Angel named Fleet Master Koraheal shows up and berates Spire for aiding Osmadiel, it becomes clear (to you the player, not Spire) that you’re aiding Fallen Angels. Koraheal orders you to destroy your former allies, while Osmadiel wants you to honor the deeds you both embarked upon and withdraw from battle. Naturally, Spire has no idea what the fuck is going on aside from two forces of Dark Angels suddenly being hostile to each other. Siding with Koraheal will elicit a sad reaction from Osmadiel, as you and the Fleet Master obliterate the Fallen. Koraheal prevents himself from revealing much information to a still confused Spire, who wishes to forget this entire episode. He does however agree with Spire’s desire for unity, and lends his entire fleet to aid Spire for the rest of the game. Siding with Osmadiel immediately ends the mission with an angry warning from Koraheal that you chose poorly. Osmadiel wants Spire to treasure his ignorance of this entire issue for his own protection, and praises Spire for having more wisdom than both he and Koraheal. He also comes back to aid Spire in the final mission with a single battle-barge. Narratively speaking this is irrelevant for the rest of the game and not even canon. Strategically speaking, Koraheal offers an immediate and much more substantial amount of aid than Osmadiel. Loyalty is its own reward indeed.		The Imperium campaign sees Spire answering the request for aid by a ‘Dark Angel’ in Caliban space using old codes and colors. Spire fights alongside this ‘Dark Angel’ named Osmadiel, who’s grateful for the aid and unusually bro-tier for a ‘Dark Angel’. After another Dark Angel named Fleet Master Koraheal shows up and berates Spire for aiding Osmadiel, it becomes clear (to you the player, not Spire) that you’re aiding Fallen Angels. Koraheal orders you to destroy your former allies, while Osmadiel wants you to honor the deeds you both embarked upon and withdraw from battle. Naturally, Spire has no idea what the fuck is going on aside from two forces of Dark Angels suddenly being hostile to each other. Siding with Koraheal will elicit a sad reaction from Osmadiel, as you and the Fleet Master obliterate the Fallen. Koraheal prevents himself from revealing much information to a still confused Spire, who wishes to forget this entire episode. He does however agree with Spire’s desire for unity, and lends his entire fleet to aid Spire for the rest of the game. Siding with Osmadiel immediately ends the mission with an angry warning from Koraheal that you chose poorly. Osmadiel wants Spire to treasure his ignorance of this entire issue for his own protection, and praises Spire for having more wisdom than both he and Koraheal. He also comes back to aid Spire in the final mission with a single battle-barge. Narratively speaking this is irrelevant for the rest of the game and not even canon. Strategically speaking, Koraheal offers an immediate and much more substantial amount of aid than Osmadiel. Loyalty is its own reward indeed.

	==The Risen arrive?==		==[[The Risen (Dark Angels)\|The Risen]] arrive?==
	So the grand return of their Primarch at the tail-end of 9th Edition was bound to bring up the great question of "How will the Lion take the whole betrayal thing ten thousand years later?" and how the Unforgiven have been handling the case.		So the grand return of their Primarch at the tail-end of 9th Edition was bound to bring up the great question of "How will the Lion take the whole betrayal thing ten thousand years later?" and how he'd feel about how the Unforgiven have been handling the case.

	Surprisingly, Lion did the unexpected and actually learn to forgive some of them. Granted, this was after having to work alongside some of them and foil a sorcerer's plot for the chapter, but he's learned something along the lines of social interaction since the last time the Imperium at large ~~has~~ seen him. That said, these Fallen weren't full-on heretics who sold their souls to Chaos, merely renegades who serve nobody but themselves and ~~harbor~~ the ~~same burning grudge towards~~ the ~~Unforgiven~~. Those he has absolved rechristened themselves "The Risen" and dedicated themselves to serving the [[Lion's Protectorate]] as a police force of the Imperium Nihilus.		Surprisingly, Lion did the unexpected and actually learn to forgive some of them. Granted, this was after having to work alongside some of them and foil a sorcerer's plot for the chapter, but he's learned something along the lines of social interaction since the last time the Imperium at large had seen him. That said, these Fallen weren't full-on heretics who sold their souls to Chaos, merely renegades who serve nobody but themselves and still held some fealty to the Imperium, if not to the legion. Those he has absolved rechristened themselves "The Risen" and dedicated themselves to serving the [[Lion's Protectorate]] as a police force within the Imperium Nihilus.

	~~TLDR~~ Fallen who join the Lion's side are known as the Risen, they appear in the book Lion: Son of the Forest and Arks of Omen: The Lion.		tl;dr Fallen who join the Lion's side are known as the Risen, they appear in the book Lion: Son of the Forest and Arks of Omen: The Lion.

	If this translates to The Risen getting actual rules in the 10th Edition Codec that distinguishes them other Space Marine factions. Players will have to wait and see.		If this translates to The Risen getting actual rules in the 10th Edition Codec that distinguishes them other Space Marine factions. Players will have to wait and see.

63.193.173.33: /* The Risen arrive? */

2023-05-09T18:25:32Z

The Risen arrive?

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:25, 9 May 2023
Line 185:		Line 185:
	TLDR Fallen who join the Lion's side are known as the Risen, they appear in the book Lion: Son of the Forest and Arks of Omen: The Lion.		TLDR Fallen who join the Lion's side are known as the Risen, they appear in the book Lion: Son of the Forest and Arks of Omen: The Lion.

	If this translates to The Risen getting actual rules in the 10th Edition Codec that distinguishes them other Space Marine factions. Players will to wait and see.		If this translates to The Risen getting actual rules in the 10th Edition Codec that distinguishes them other Space Marine factions. Players will have to wait and see.
	{{Fallen-Angels}}		{{Fallen-Angels}}

	[[Category:Dark Angels]]		[[Category:Dark Angels]]

63.193.173.46: /* The Risen arrive? */

2023-05-06T15:30:01Z

The Risen arrive?

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:30, 6 May 2023
Line 183:		Line 183:
	Surprisingly, Lion did the unexpected and actually learn to forgive some of them. Granted, this was after having to work alongside some of them and foil a sorcerer's plot for the chapter, but he's learned something along the lines of social interaction since the last time the Imperium at large has seen him. That said, these Fallen weren't full-on heretics who sold their souls to Chaos, merely renegades who serve nobody but themselves and harbor the same burning grudge towards the Unforgiven. Those he has absolved rechristened themselves "The Risen" and dedicated themselves to serving the [[Lion's Protectorate]] as a police force of the Imperium Nihilus.		Surprisingly, Lion did the unexpected and actually learn to forgive some of them. Granted, this was after having to work alongside some of them and foil a sorcerer's plot for the chapter, but he's learned something along the lines of social interaction since the last time the Imperium at large has seen him. That said, these Fallen weren't full-on heretics who sold their souls to Chaos, merely renegades who serve nobody but themselves and harbor the same burning grudge towards the Unforgiven. Those he has absolved rechristened themselves "The Risen" and dedicated themselves to serving the [[Lion's Protectorate]] as a police force of the Imperium Nihilus.

	TLDR Fallen who join the Lion's side are ~~know~~ as the Risen, they appear in the book Lion: Son of the Forest and Arks of Omen: The Lion.		TLDR Fallen who join the Lion's side are known as the Risen, they appear in the book Lion: Son of the Forest and Arks of Omen: The Lion.

			If this translates to The Risen getting actual rules in the 10th Edition Codec that distinguishes them other Space Marine factions. Players will to wait and see.
	{{Fallen-Angels}}		{{Fallen-Angels}}

	[[Category:Dark Angels]]		[[Category:Dark Angels]]

1d4chan>ThatOneBruvva: /* The Risen arrive? */

2023-05-03T12:56:29Z

The Risen arrive?

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:56, 3 May 2023
Line 179:		Line 179:

	==The Risen arrive?==		==The Risen arrive?==
			So the grand return of their Primarch at the tail-end of 9th Edition was bound to bring up the great question of "How will the Lion take the whole betrayal thing ten thousand years later?" and how the Unforgiven have been handling the case.

			Surprisingly, Lion did the unexpected and actually learn to forgive some of them. Granted, this was after having to work alongside some of them and foil a sorcerer's plot for the chapter, but he's learned something along the lines of social interaction since the last time the Imperium at large has seen him. That said, these Fallen weren't full-on heretics who sold their souls to Chaos, merely renegades who serve nobody but themselves and harbor the same burning grudge towards the Unforgiven. Those he has absolved rechristened themselves "The Risen" and dedicated themselves to serving the [[Lion's Protectorate]] as a police force of the Imperium Nihilus.

	TLDR Fallen who join the Lion's side are know as the Risen, they appear in the book Lion: Son of the Forest and Arks of Omen: The Lion.		TLDR Fallen who join the Lion's side are know as the Risen, they appear in the book Lion: Son of the Forest and Arks of Omen: The Lion.

2601:2C6:4E81:640:DC38:3194:A57A:B972 at 02:27, 3 May 2023

2023-05-03T02:27:59Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:27, 3 May 2023
Line 177:		Line 177:

	The Imperium campaign sees Spire answering the request for aid by a ‘Dark Angel’ in Caliban space using old codes and colors. Spire fights alongside this ‘Dark Angel’ named Osmadiel, who’s grateful for the aid and unusually bro-tier for a ‘Dark Angel’. After another Dark Angel named Fleet Master Koraheal shows up and berates Spire for aiding Osmadiel, it becomes clear (to you the player, not Spire) that you’re aiding Fallen Angels. Koraheal orders you to destroy your former allies, while Osmadiel wants you to honor the deeds you both embarked upon and withdraw from battle. Naturally, Spire has no idea what the fuck is going on aside from two forces of Dark Angels suddenly being hostile to each other. Siding with Koraheal will elicit a sad reaction from Osmadiel, as you and the Fleet Master obliterate the Fallen. Koraheal prevents himself from revealing much information to a still confused Spire, who wishes to forget this entire episode. He does however agree with Spire’s desire for unity, and lends his entire fleet to aid Spire for the rest of the game. Siding with Osmadiel immediately ends the mission with an angry warning from Koraheal that you chose poorly. Osmadiel wants Spire to treasure his ignorance of this entire issue for his own protection, and praises Spire for having more wisdom than both he and Koraheal. He also comes back to aid Spire in the final mission with a single battle-barge. Narratively speaking this is irrelevant for the rest of the game and not even canon. Strategically speaking, Koraheal offers an immediate and much more substantial amount of aid than Osmadiel. Loyalty is its own reward indeed.		The Imperium campaign sees Spire answering the request for aid by a ‘Dark Angel’ in Caliban space using old codes and colors. Spire fights alongside this ‘Dark Angel’ named Osmadiel, who’s grateful for the aid and unusually bro-tier for a ‘Dark Angel’. After another Dark Angel named Fleet Master Koraheal shows up and berates Spire for aiding Osmadiel, it becomes clear (to you the player, not Spire) that you’re aiding Fallen Angels. Koraheal orders you to destroy your former allies, while Osmadiel wants you to honor the deeds you both embarked upon and withdraw from battle. Naturally, Spire has no idea what the fuck is going on aside from two forces of Dark Angels suddenly being hostile to each other. Siding with Koraheal will elicit a sad reaction from Osmadiel, as you and the Fleet Master obliterate the Fallen. Koraheal prevents himself from revealing much information to a still confused Spire, who wishes to forget this entire episode. He does however agree with Spire’s desire for unity, and lends his entire fleet to aid Spire for the rest of the game. Siding with Osmadiel immediately ends the mission with an angry warning from Koraheal that you chose poorly. Osmadiel wants Spire to treasure his ignorance of this entire issue for his own protection, and praises Spire for having more wisdom than both he and Koraheal. He also comes back to aid Spire in the final mission with a single battle-barge. Narratively speaking this is irrelevant for the rest of the game and not even canon. Strategically speaking, Koraheal offers an immediate and much more substantial amount of aid than Osmadiel. Loyalty is its own reward indeed.

			==The Risen arrive?==
			TLDR Fallen who join the Lion's side are know as the Risen, they appear in the book Lion: Son of the Forest and Arks of Omen: The Lion.

	{{Fallen-Angels}}		{{Fallen-Angels}}

	[[Category:Dark Angels]]		[[Category:Dark Angels]]

1d4chan>Triacom: Undo revision 828534 by 154.6.21.196 (talk) - Do not argue on the main page. Change the info so it's correct or don't bother.

2022-06-02T23:10:16Z

Undo revision 828534 by 154.6.21.196 (talk) - Do not argue on the main page. Change the info so it's correct or don't bother.

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:10, 2 June 2022
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	[[File:Fallen angels.jpg\|250px\|thumb\|right\|A rare sighting of three fallen angels working together]]		[[File:Fallen angels.jpg\|250px\|thumb\|right\|A rare sighting of three fallen angels working together]]

	Not only that, but the Fallen were said to be fighting among themselves before the Lion even arrived in orbit; as mentioned previously, many of the Terran legionnaires (and some Calibanite Dark Angels too) were uncomfortable with the way that Luther was comporting himself and tried to get a message out to Terra or the Lion to inform them of what was happening to their planet. They managed to amass a force of several thousand Astartes and tried to storm one of the astropathic relays but were double-crossed by one of the First Legionnaires, '''Astelan''', ''a guy who was one of the first 5000 space marines EVER and remembered the [[Thunder Warriors]]'', who sought his own advancement and was unhappy with the way that the Lion commanded the legion that "used" to be mostly his before the Lion showed up. These Imperial-Loyalist forces were all rounded up and placed into dungeons underneath the Rock. Which is kinda strange since Astelan had to have known there was no chance in Hell of winning against the Lion and his fleet. So, he'd lose everything. On the bright side [[Noblebright\|maybe those loyalists ironically survived the destruction of Caliban due to being imprisoned deep within/under the Fortress Monestary, getting the last laugh when their brothers freed them.]] It's also possible those "Fallen" who were actually loyalists that appear are where those mysteriously appearing Chapters of the First Legion come from~~. For the Emperor's sake somebody please translate that last sentence into English~~.		Not only that, but the Fallen were said to be fighting among themselves before the Lion even arrived in orbit; as mentioned previously, many of the Terran legionnaires (and some Calibanite Dark Angels too) were uncomfortable with the way that Luther was comporting himself and tried to get a message out to Terra or the Lion to inform them of what was happening to their planet. They managed to amass a force of several thousand Astartes and tried to storm one of the astropathic relays but were double-crossed by one of the First Legionnaires, '''Astelan''', ''a guy who was one of the first 5000 space marines EVER and remembered the [[Thunder Warriors]]'', who sought his own advancement and was unhappy with the way that the Lion commanded the legion that "used" to be mostly his before the Lion showed up. These Imperial-Loyalist forces were all rounded up and placed into dungeons underneath the Rock. Which is kinda strange since Astelan had to have known there was no chance in Hell of winning against the Lion and his fleet. So, he'd lose everything. On the bright side [[Noblebright\|maybe those loyalists ironically survived the destruction of Caliban due to being imprisoned deep within/under the Fortress Monestary, getting the last laugh when their brothers freed them.]] It's also possible those "Fallen" who were actually loyalists that appear are where those mysteriously appearing Chapters of the First Legion come from.
	*It is a testament to Astelan's over-bloated sense of self-worth that he believes the Dark Angels would be better off under his command, especially considering that despite being one of the first 5000 Astartes ever created he did not rise to the position of chapter master until after the Lion took control of the legion. His attitude towards the Lion and the newer Dark Angels is very similar to that of the Custodians in ''Master of Mankind'', viewing all those that came after as below him; after all, he was one of the first, and was directly commanded by the Emperor in person; why should he take orders from a lesser being? He is very much a mercenary at heart, and as long as you remain the biggest kid on the playground then he will be your best friend, but as soon as an even bigger kid shows up you can bet that Astelan will do what is best for Astelan.		*It is a testament to Astelan's over-bloated sense of self-worth that he believes the Dark Angels would be better off under his command, especially considering that despite being one of the first 5000 Astartes ever created he did not rise to the position of chapter master until after the Lion took control of the legion. His attitude towards the Lion and the newer Dark Angels is very similar to that of the Custodians in ''Master of Mankind'', viewing all those that came after as below him; after all, he was one of the first, and was directly commanded by the Emperor in person; why should he take orders from a lesser being? He is very much a mercenary at heart, and as long as you remain the biggest kid on the playground then he will be your best friend, but as soon as an even bigger kid shows up you can bet that Astelan will do what is best for Astelan.
	*In his defense though, things only really turned sour when he actually tried to uphold the initial values of the Great Crusade as set forth by Big.E. (i.e. integrate lost human civilizations into the Imperium instead of [[exterminatus\|bombing them into oblivion with extreme prejudice]]) and a Caliban-born Dark Angel, Belath, manipulated events so the planet had to be [[rape\|forcefully subdued]] and (insult to injury) made him look incompetent in the process. Doesn't excuse his actions after that, but it does give him a reason as to why he believed Johnson & co were just self-serving opportunists waiting to see who'd win during the Heresy.		*In his defense though, things only really turned sour when he actually tried to uphold the initial values of the Great Crusade as set forth by Big.E. (i.e. integrate lost human civilizations into the Imperium instead of [[exterminatus\|bombing them into oblivion with extreme prejudice]]) and a Caliban-born Dark Angel, Belath, manipulated events so the planet had to be [[rape\|forcefully subdued]] and (insult to injury) made him look incompetent in the process. Doesn't excuse his actions after that, but it does give him a reason as to why he believed Johnson & co were just self-serving opportunists waiting to see who'd win during the Heresy.