Fantasy Armor - Revision history

73.69.193.6: Undo revision 1008578 by 94.142.244.16 (talk)

2026-03-26T17:26:21Z

Undo revision 1008578 by 94.142.244.16 (talk)

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2026-02-16T09:01:07Z

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Sdhjk at 19:08, 18 July 2025

2025-07-18T19:08:43Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:08, 18 July 2025
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	===Living Fortress===		===Living Fortress===
	The character is so excessively armored with large pieces of armor that you must wonder how they can even walk unassisted without falling over. Usually done to give characters a stoic and/or intimidating look. Issues such as avoiding heatstroke and being unable to use a toilet in that armor are usually sidestepped in fiction, but then those issues are [[Magical Realm\|almost]] never addressed in fiction anyway. In real-life these drawbacks were trade offs for the protection the armor offered, and the armor itself can't be put on or removed by the person wearing it without someone else helping - in practice it's usually one of the jobs of a squire. To avoid heatstroke, the wearer had to drink and minimize activity where possible, and as for the toilet problem since the armor can't be properly removed without help, there was a flap at the back - otherwise the squire would have to clean it afterwards.		The character is so excessively armored with large pieces of armor that you must wonder how they can even walk unassisted without falling over. Usually done to give characters a stoic and/or intimidating look. Issues such as avoiding heatstroke and being unable to use a toilet in that armor are usually sidestepped in fiction, but then those issues are [[Magical Realm\|almost]] never addressed in fiction anyway. In real-life these drawbacks were trade offs for the protection the armor offered, and the armor itself can't be put on or removed by the person wearing it without someone else helping - in practice it's usually one of the jobs of a squire. To avoid heatstroke, the wearer had to drink and minimize activity where possible, and as for the toilet problem since the armor can't be properly removed without help, there was a flap at the back - otherwise the squire would have to clean it afterwards. Additionally, in [[Urban Fantasy\|modern]] or [[Soft Science Fiction\|futuristic fantasy]] settings, diapers can be used to mitigate toilet problem when wearing armor non-stop for long time (e.g. wearing sealed/vacuum-proof armor in hostile atmosphere, for multiple days straight).

	===Bare Minimum===		===Bare Minimum===
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	== The Warhammer Line ==		== The Warhammer Line ==

	As a side note, if your armor is as or more ridiculous than Warhammer's (either [[Warhammer 40,000\|40k]] or [[Warhammer Fantasy Battle\|Fantasy]]), expect to be mocked. Yes, this means you, generic anime-inspired MMORPG, and you, [[That Guy]] who uses a screenshot from said MMORPG as his character portrait.		As a side note, if your armor is as or more ridiculous than Warhammer's (either [[Warhammer 40,000\|40k]] or [[Warhammer Fantasy Battle\|Fantasy]]) and if it isn't a parody work, expect to be mocked. Yes, this means you, generic anime-inspired MMORPG, and you, [[That Guy]] who uses a screenshot from said MMORPG as his character portrait.

	==Videos==		==Videos==
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	File:Megnets.jpg\|Perfectly safe, proven by practical evidence.		File:Megnets.jpg\|Perfectly safe, proven by practical evidence.
	File:Glamour armor.jpg\| Fantasy armor is known to reveal Fabulous Secret Powers to its wearer.		File:Glamour armor.jpg\| Fantasy armor is known to reveal Fabulous Secret Powers to its wearer.
			File:ArmorTiers.jpg\|A possible, yet improbable, explanation.
	File:Armour of Bulk.png\|[[Centurion Squad\|The Centurion armored suit]]. An armor system where [[Derp\|the guy wearing powered armor wears another powered armor suit on top of it]]. At least the title is correct.		File:Armour of Bulk.png\|[[Centurion Squad\|The Centurion armored suit]]. An armor system where [[Derp\|the guy wearing powered armor wears another powered armor suit on top of it]]. At least the title is correct.
	</gallery></center>		</gallery></center>

imported>Administrator: 283 revisions imported

2023-06-21T04:24:36Z

283 revisions imported

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2023-06-18T23:52:09Z

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2A02:1810:4E2C:A900:B1DB:DD21:1188:2216 at 14:49, 7 June 2023

2023-06-07T14:49:23Z

2A02:908:238:F120:9DE9:3E:353D:24EA: /* Videos */

2023-04-28T05:28:53Z

Videos

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:28, 28 April 2023
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	Unsurprisingly the skub extends to youtube. Shadiversity, a historian, author, and HEMA practitioner has a couple extensive videos on the subject. On the subject of armor click [https://www.youtube.com/embed/lBtvS5yhTA8 here] for the general discussion, and [https://www.youtube.com/embed/6KHz0qWQA9I here] for the specific discussion on if boob plate's dangerous. Then click [https://www.youtube.com/embed/7Iw_RD_h6bc here] for the more general, but related subject of the Fantasy barbarian.		Unsurprisingly the skub extends to youtube. Shadiversity, a historian, author, and HEMA practitioner has a couple extensive videos on the subject. On the subject of armor click [https://www.youtube.com/embed/lBtvS5yhTA8 here] for the general discussion, and [https://www.youtube.com/embed/6KHz0qWQA9I here] for the specific discussion on if boob plate's dangerous. Then click [https://www.youtube.com/embed/7Iw_RD_h6bc here] for the more general, but related subject of the Fantasy barbarian.

	There's numerous responses from other excellent channels like Skallagrim, commentaries from Schola Gladiatoria and other detailed videos from Shad and others ranging from focusing on the chain mail bikini itself to the more general topic of the fantasy Conan style Barbarian. This goes all the way up to scifi boob plate of the far future... not quite [[~~Sister~~ of Battle\|40k]] to my knowledge. Yet. But people have brought similar kit up.		There's numerous responses from other excellent channels like Skallagrim, commentaries from Schola Gladiatoria and other detailed videos from Shad and others ranging from focusing on the chain mail bikini itself to the more general topic of the fantasy Conan style Barbarian. This goes all the way up to scifi boob plate of the far future... not quite [[Sisters of Battle\|40k]] to my knowledge. Yet. But people have brought similar kit up.

	==See Also==		==See Also==

2A02:908:238:F120:9DE9:3E:353D:24EA: /* Videos */

2023-04-28T05:28:23Z

Videos

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:28, 28 April 2023
Line 73:		Line 73:
	Unsurprisingly the skub extends to youtube. Shadiversity, a historian, author, and HEMA practitioner has a couple extensive videos on the subject. On the subject of armor click [https://www.youtube.com/embed/lBtvS5yhTA8 here] for the general discussion, and [https://www.youtube.com/embed/6KHz0qWQA9I here] for the specific discussion on if boob plate's dangerous. Then click [https://www.youtube.com/embed/7Iw_RD_h6bc here] for the more general, but related subject of the Fantasy barbarian.		Unsurprisingly the skub extends to youtube. Shadiversity, a historian, author, and HEMA practitioner has a couple extensive videos on the subject. On the subject of armor click [https://www.youtube.com/embed/lBtvS5yhTA8 here] for the general discussion, and [https://www.youtube.com/embed/6KHz0qWQA9I here] for the specific discussion on if boob plate's dangerous. Then click [https://www.youtube.com/embed/7Iw_RD_h6bc here] for the more general, but related subject of the Fantasy barbarian.

	There's numerous responses from other excellent channels like Skallagrim, commentaries from Schola Gladiatoria and other detailed videos from Shad and others ranging from focusing on the chain mail bikini itself to the more general topic of the fantasy Conan style Barbarian. This goes all the way up to scifi boob plate of the far future... not quite 40k to my knowledge. Yet. But people have brought similar kit up.		There's numerous responses from other excellent channels like Skallagrim, commentaries from Schola Gladiatoria and other detailed videos from Shad and others ranging from focusing on the chain mail bikini itself to the more general topic of the fantasy Conan style Barbarian. This goes all the way up to scifi boob plate of the far future... not quite [[Sister of Battle\|40k]] to my knowledge. Yet. But people have brought similar kit up.

	==See Also==		==See Also==

115.70.44.117: /* Fear Me */

2022-11-23T03:29:49Z

Fear Me

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:29, 23 November 2022
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	*Dreadful armor - simply designed to intimidate foes while looking dignified. They make take the shape of beings feared throughout the setting, like dragons, wolves, angelic/daemonic warriors, or what else have you. While sometimes they're adorned with iconography that their enemies would fear. Worth noting this isn't just in fantasy either, this is literally [[Batman]]'s shtick in a nutshell.		*Dreadful armor - simply designed to intimidate foes while looking dignified. They make take the shape of beings feared throughout the setting, like dragons, wolves, angelic/daemonic warriors, or what else have you. While sometimes they're adorned with iconography that their enemies would fear. Worth noting this isn't just in fantasy either, this is literally [[Batman]]'s shtick in a nutshell.

	*Eldritch abomination - armor that looks like something H.P Lovecraft would make. Such style incorporates features that are designed to either disgust or horrify the enemy [[Chaos Space Marines\|at the mere thought that something like them could exist.]] Typically used by big bads, who either have armor writhing like its alive or have fused with their armor like ~~its~~ their second skin.		*Eldritch abomination - armor that looks like something H.P Lovecraft would make. Such style incorporates features that are designed to either disgust or horrify the enemy [[Chaos Space Marines\|at the mere thought that something like them could exist.]] Typically used by big bads, who either have armor writhing like its alive - and sometimes ''it is'' - or have fused with their armor like it's their second skin.

	*Armored hedgehog - covered in big sharp spikes. Some armors in this school have so many spikes that wearing them in real life would run the genuine risk of impaling oneself. Sometimes the user is even portrayed as using the spikes themselves as a weapon.		*Armored hedgehog - covered in big sharp spikes. Some armors in this school have so many spikes that wearing them in real life would run the genuine risk of impaling oneself. Sometimes the user is even portrayed as using the spikes themselves as a weapon.

115.70.44.117: /* The Main Source of Skub */

2022-11-23T03:28:03Z

The Main Source of Skub

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:28, 23 November 2022
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	* [[Derp\|Yes, we know that's five points, when we said three are indisputable.]] [[Irony\|Which three of the above five are indisputable is widely disputed.]]		* [[Derp\|Yes, we know that's five points, when we said three are indisputable.]] [[Irony\|Which three of the above five are indisputable is widely disputed.]]

	(For example, point number two is dependent on how much of a roleplayer vs. [[rollplaying\|rollplayer]] you are. You wouldn't care much about how well armor covers you if it's +3 defense regardless of hit location. ~~You'll~~ also have people argue that artistic license is more important than adherence to reality when it comes to fiction, since it's not supposed to be a literal interpretation of reality anyway, but by that point you're entering a philosophical debate.		For example, point number two is dependent on how much of a roleplayer vs. [[rollplaying\|rollplayer]] you are. You wouldn't care much about how well armor covers you if it's +3 defense regardless of hit location, especially where supernatural power - the meat and potatoes of fantasy settings - protecting the wearer regardless of exposed skin is involved. Otherwise, you also have people argue that artistic license is more important than adherence to reality when it comes to fiction, since it's not supposed to be a literal interpretation of reality anyway, but by that point you're entering a philosophical debate.

	Further for point five... specialized armor for women is a thing, ~~and is modernly a thing~~ for multiple military forces. This is something this Anon's sisters in arms expressed a great deal of desire for back in the day, and his current coworkers express a great deal of gratitude for now.)		Further for point five... specialized armor for women is a thing, even in modern times for multiple military forces. This is something this Anon's sisters in arms expressed a great deal of desire for back in the day, and his current coworkers express a great deal of gratitude for now.

	Beyond those few points, expect to see nothing but a sea of bullshit, and maybe a few well meaning but absolutely wrong "Best Practices" suggestions.		Beyond those few points, expect to see nothing but a sea of bullshit, and maybe a few well-meaning but absolutely wrong "Best Practices" suggestions.

	==="Breast"plate a.k.a. "Boobplate"===		==="Breast"plate a.k.a. "Boobplate"===

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:49, 7 June 2023
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	'''Fantasy armor''' has a long and noble tradition of [[awesome]]ness, [[Derp\|awe-inspiring]] [[FAIL\|stupidity]], and [[skub\|lively debates]]. Many kinds of fantastic armor, such as sexy bear skin speedos, chain mail bikinis, massive codpieces, ridiculously massive suits of plate mail, armor made of gold or even gems, and other overly elaborate forms of armor are all standard equipment for adventuring parties. Threads dedicated to fabulous and ridiculous armors are a common sight on /tg/, and discussions regarding people's favorite type of armor are also a common way to pass the time, [[cancer\|although doing so has a risk of starting an ugly political debate over issues best not discussed on this page]].		'''Fantasy armor''' has a long and noble tradition of [[awesome]]ness, [[Derp\|awe-inspiring]] [[FAIL\|stupidity]], and [[skub\|lively debates]]. Many kinds of fantastic armor, such as sexy bear skin speedos, chain mail bikinis, massive codpieces, ridiculously massive suits of plate mail, armor made of gold or even gems, and other overly elaborate forms of armor are all standard equipment for adventuring parties. Threads dedicated to fabulous and ridiculous armors are a common sight on /tg/, and discussions regarding people's favorite type of armor are also a common way to pass the time, [[cancer\|although doing so has a risk of starting an ugly political debate over issues best not discussed on this page]].

	Most agree that even the most over-the-top armor designs aren't a huge problem for anything other than historically accurate settings, and in terms of the [[crunch]] it simply doesn't matter, as the stats and the design do not need to be linked in any way - after all, the key word is "fantasy".		Most agree that even the most over-the-top armor designs aren't a huge problem for anything other than historically accurate settings, and in terms of the [[crunch]] it simply doesn't matter, as the stats and the design do not need to be linked in any way - after all, the key word is "fantasy".

	==Common Types==		==Common Types==
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	===Living Fortress===		===Living Fortress===
	The character is so excessively armored with large pieces of armor that you must wonder how they can even walk unassisted without falling over. Usually done to give characters a stoic and/or intimidating look. Issues such as avoiding heatstroke and being unable to use a toilet in that armor are usually sidestepped in fiction, but then those issues are [[Magical Realm\|almost]] never addressed in fiction anyway. In real-life these drawbacks were trade offs for the protection the armor offered, and the armor itself can't be put on or removed by the person wearing it without someone else helping - in practice it's usually one of the jobs of a squire. To avoid heatstroke, the wearer had to drink and minimize activity where possible, and as for the toilet problem since the armor can't be properly removed without help, there was a flap at the back - otherwise the squire would have to clean it afterwards.		The character is so excessively armored with large pieces of armor that you must wonder how they can even walk unassisted without falling over. Usually done to give characters a stoic and/or intimidating look. Issues such as avoiding heatstroke and being unable to use a toilet in that armor are usually sidestepped in fiction, but then those issues are [[Magical Realm\|almost]] never addressed in fiction anyway. In real-life these drawbacks were trade offs for the protection the armor offered, and the armor itself can't be put on or removed by the person wearing it without someone else helping - in practice it's usually one of the jobs of a squire. To avoid heatstroke, the wearer had to drink and minimize activity where possible, and as for the toilet problem since the armor can't be properly removed without help, there was a flap at the back - otherwise the squire would have to clean it afterwards.

	===Bare Minimum===		===Bare Minimum===
	Not an armor type, so much as a lack thereof. Characters in this style typically wear just enough to keep them from being classified as naked (think [[Red Sonja\|"Red Sonja"]] and you'll get the idea). Traditionally given to characters who favor speed over protection (or fanservice, depending on the setting), it is also sometimes given to those who use some kind of supernatural protection against damage to supplement their armor or simply happen to be so good at withstanding/dodging attacks that they don't normally need to worry about being hurt in the first place. The average magic user is a good example of this, given that the traditional wizard robes are just natural fiber clothing and aren't usually much better in terms of their protective value (enchantments and other forms of magical protection notwithstanding). One popular example is [[Conan the Barbarian\|Conan]] being depicted wearing only boots, a loincloth and a belt. This look originated from artwork of Conan by renowned artist Frank Frazetta. Frazetta himself depicted Conan this way because he liked drawing the human body and put that personal preference in his art style (which is why men and women in his art tend to be scantily clad whenever possible).		Not an armor type, so much as a lack thereof. Characters in this style typically wear just enough to keep them from being classified as naked (think [[Red Sonja\|"Red Sonja"]] and you'll get the idea). Traditionally given to characters who favor speed over protection (or fanservice, depending on the setting), it is also sometimes given to those who use some kind of supernatural protection against damage to supplement their armor or simply happen to be so good at withstanding/dodging attacks that they don't normally need to worry about being hurt in the first place. The average magic user is a good example of this, given that the traditional wizard robes are just natural fiber clothing and aren't usually much better in terms of their protective value (enchantments and other forms of magical protection notwithstanding). One popular example is [[Conan the Barbarian\|Conan]] being depicted wearing only boots, a loincloth and a belt. This look originated from artwork of Conan by renowned artist Frank Frazetta. Frazetta himself depicted Conan this way because he liked drawing the human body and put that personal preference in his art style (which is why men and women in his art tend to be scantily clad whenever possible).

	It should be noted that the "almost naked female armor" is not actually as common as one might expect. The worst offenders are usually fantasy pinups and JRPGs (and in the latter case, often applies to both men and women); for actual tabletop RPGs and most western-developed videogames, they're actually somewhat uncommon in recent years due to - among other things - ideological pushback, the practical objections and widespread mockery (as such, if the setting doesn't revolve around fanservice then the nakedness is usually either made more "artistic", or more effort is used in "justifying" it in-universe).		It should be noted that the "almost naked female armor" is not actually as common as one might expect. The worst offenders are usually fantasy pinups and JRPGs (and in the latter case, often applies to both men and women); for actual tabletop RPGs and most western-developed videogames, they're actually somewhat uncommon in recent years due to - among other things - ideological pushback, the practical objections and widespread mockery (as such, if the setting doesn't revolve around fanservice then the nakedness is usually either made more "artistic", or more effort is used in "justifying" it in-universe).
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	===Fear Me===		===Fear Me===
	The character's armor is specially designed to intimidate their enemies, either by just looking menacing or realizing what the armor is, is enough to inspire dread. This is typically reserved for villains, who will dress all evil-like to intimidate their foes and cement their position as a, or ''the'', big bad. The good guys sometimes use this style, as an attempt to show his allies and the enemy he means business. This can take a variety of forms, such as:		The character's armor is specially designed to intimidate their enemies, either by just looking menacing or realizing what the armor is, is enough to inspire dread. This is typically reserved for villains, who will dress all evil-like to intimidate their foes and cement their position as a, or ''the'', big bad. The good guys sometimes use this style, as an attempt to show his allies and the enemy he means business. This can take a variety of forms, such as:
	*Dreadful armor - simply designed to intimidate foes while looking dignified. They make take the shape of beings feared throughout the setting, like dragons, wolves, angelic/daemonic warriors, or what else have you. While sometimes they're adorned with iconography that their enemies would fear. Worth noting this isn't just in fantasy either, this is literally [[Batman]]'s shtick in a nutshell.		*Dreadful armor - simply designed to intimidate foes while looking dignified. They make take the shape of beings feared throughout the setting, like dragons, wolves, angelic/daemonic warriors, or what else have you. While sometimes they're adorned with iconography that their enemies would fear. Worth noting this isn't just in fantasy either, this is literally [[Batman]]'s shtick in a nutshell.

	*Eldritch abomination - armor that looks like something H.P Lovecraft would make. Such style incorporates features that are designed to either disgust or horrify the enemy [[Chaos Space Marines\|at the mere thought that something like them could exist.]] Typically used by big bads, who either have armor writhing like its alive - and sometimes ''it is'' - or have fused with their armor like it's their second skin.		*Eldritch abomination - armor that looks like something H.P Lovecraft would make. Such style incorporates features that are designed to either disgust or horrify the enemy [[Chaos Space Marines\|at the mere thought that something like them could exist.]] Typically used by big bads, who either have armor writhing like its alive - and sometimes ''it is'' - or have fused with their armor like it's their second skin.
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	# The realities of combat also probably exist in your game world, which directly counteracts #1.		# The realities of combat also probably exist in your game world, which directly counteracts #1.
	# The armor worn by women in Fantasy Art veers strongly towards the cheesecake side of the line.		# The armor worn by women in Fantasy Art veers strongly towards the cheesecake side of the line.
	# In the real world, there were actual suits of armor that had some ''very'' goofy looking codpieces; [[Wikipedia:Armor of Ferdinand I, Holy Roman Emperor \| here's one famous example]]. [[wikipedia:Muscle cuirass \|Muscle cuirasses]], while somewhat less funny than the silly codpieces, are also brought up. (There's a possibly relevant point to be made here, but the laughter over the goofy codpieces usually drowns it out.)		# In the real world, there were actual suits of armor that had some ''very'' goofy looking codpieces; [[Wikipedia:Armor of Ferdinand I, Holy Roman Emperor \| here's one famous example]]. [[wikipedia:Muscle cuirass \|Muscle cuirasses]], while somewhat less funny than the silly codpieces, are also brought up. (There's a possibly relevant point to be made here, but the laughter over the goofy codpieces usually drowns it out.)
	# In the real world, practical armor is fairly unisex, in terms of shape, if not support - breasts just don't get as much in the way as you might expect, particularly once you start adding the necessary padding. Depending on the size of the breasts, at least.		# In the real world, practical armor is fairly unisex, in terms of shape, if not support - breasts just don't get as much in the way as you might expect, particularly once you start adding the necessary padding. Depending on the size of the breasts, at least.
	* [[Derp\|Yes, we know that's five points, when we said three are indisputable.]] [[Irony\|Which three of the above five are indisputable is widely disputed.]]		* [[Derp\|Yes, we know that's five points, when we said three are indisputable.]] [[Irony\|Which three of the above five are indisputable is widely disputed.]]

	For example, point number two is dependent on how much of a roleplayer vs. [[rollplaying\|rollplayer]] you are. You wouldn't care much about how well armor covers you if it's +3 defense regardless of hit location, especially where supernatural power - the meat and potatoes of fantasy settings - protecting the wearer regardless of exposed skin is involved. Otherwise, you also have people argue that artistic license is more important than adherence to reality when it comes to fiction, since it's not supposed to be a literal interpretation of reality anyway, but by that point you're entering a philosophical debate.		For example, point number two is dependent on how much of a roleplayer vs. [[rollplaying\|rollplayer]] you are. You wouldn't care much about how well armor covers you if it's +3 defense regardless of hit location, especially where supernatural power - the meat and potatoes of fantasy settings - protecting the wearer regardless of exposed skin is involved. Otherwise, you also have people argue that artistic license is more important than adherence to reality when it comes to fiction, since it's not supposed to be a literal interpretation of reality anyway, but by that point you're entering a philosophical debate.

	Further for point five... specialized armor for women is a thing, even in modern times for multiple military forces. This is something this Anon's sisters in arms expressed a great deal of desire for back in the day, and his current coworkers express a great deal of gratitude for now.		Further for point five... specialized armor for women is a thing, even in modern times for multiple military forces. This is something this Anon's sisters in arms expressed a great deal of desire for back in the day, and his current coworkers express a great deal of gratitude for now.
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	==Videos==		==Videos==

	Unsurprisingly the skub extends to youtube. Shadiversity, a historian, author, and HEMA practitioner has a couple extensive videos on the subject. On the subject of armor click [https://www.youtube.com/embed/lBtvS5yhTA8 here] for the general discussion, and [https://www.youtube.com/embed/6KHz0qWQA9I here] for the specific discussion on if boob plate's dangerous. Then click [https://www.youtube.com/embed/7Iw_RD_h6bc here] for the more general, but related subject of the Fantasy barbarian.		Unsurprisingly the skub extends to youtube. Shadiversity, a historian, author, and HEMA practitioner has a couple extensive videos on the subject. On the subject of armor click [https://www.youtube.com/embed/lBtvS5yhTA8 here] for the general discussion, and [https://www.youtube.com/embed/6KHz0qWQA9I here] for the specific discussion on if boob plate's dangerous. Then click [https://www.youtube.com/embed/7Iw_RD_h6bc here] for the more general, but related subject of the Fantasy barbarian.

	There's numerous responses from other excellent channels like Skallagrim, commentaries from Schola Gladiatoria and other detailed videos from Shad and others ranging from focusing on the chain mail bikini itself to the more general topic of the fantasy Conan style Barbarian. This goes all the way up to scifi boob plate of the far future... not quite [[Sisters of Battle\|40k]] to my knowledge. Yet. But people have brought similar kit up.		There's numerous responses from other excellent channels like Skallagrim, commentaries from Schola Gladiatoria and other detailed videos from Shad and others ranging from focusing on the chain mail bikini itself to the more general topic of the fantasy Conan style Barbarian. This goes all the way up to scifi boob plate of the far future... not quite [[Sisters of Battle\|40k]] to my knowledge. Yet. But people have brought similar kit up.