Fascist Italy - Revision history

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174.48.165.232 at 12:40, 7 June 2023

2023-06-07T12:40:55Z

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	* [[Communism]]: While not true Nazi the two were still very opposed to each other. Communists actually played a big part in the Italian resistance movement, but became a major and long-lasting annoyance to Italian governments during the Cold War.		* [[Communism]]: While not true Nazi the two were still very opposed to each other. Communists actually played a big part in the Italian resistance movement, but became a major and long-lasting annoyance to Italian governments during the Cold War.
	* [[Nazi]]: The much more brutal and racially fueled version, the concept of race taking precedence over the state. Still not efficient, but caused far more damage to the world.		* [[Nazi]]: The much more brutal and racially fueled version, the concept of race taking precedence over the state. Still not efficient, but caused far more damage to the world.
	{{~~stub~~}}		{{WW2}}
	[[Category:History]][[Category:Not related]]		[[Category:History]][[Category:Not related]]

174.48.165.232 at 12:40, 7 June 2023

2023-06-07T12:40:45Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:40, 7 June 2023
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	* [[Communism]]: While not true Nazi the two were still very opposed to each other. Communists actually played a big part in the Italian resistance movement, but became a major and long-lasting annoyance to Italian governments during the Cold War.		* [[Communism]]: While not true Nazi the two were still very opposed to each other. Communists actually played a big part in the Italian resistance movement, but became a major and long-lasting annoyance to Italian governments during the Cold War.
	* [[Nazi]]: The much more brutal and racially fueled version, the concept of race taking precedence over the state. Still not efficient, but caused far more damage to the world.		* [[Nazi]]: The much more brutal and racially fueled version, the concept of race taking precedence over the state. Still not efficient, but caused far more damage to the world.
			{{stub}}
	[[Category:History]][[Category:Not related]]		[[Category:History]][[Category:Not related]]

1d4chan>Redvsdead: /* Backstory */

2023-06-06T01:56:40Z

Backstory

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:56, 6 June 2023
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	Now, considering Italy's situation in 1915, 'Albania and parts of the Ottoman empire' just sounded way better. Sure, it still wasn't the raw income from colonies, but it would allow Italy pretty much uncontested control of the Adriatic sea and a strong presence in the Mediterranean, with all the benefits thereof. So they joined the Entente in 1915, hoping to quickly get what they wanted.		Now, considering Italy's situation in 1915, 'Albania and parts of the Ottoman empire' just sounded way better. Sure, it still wasn't the raw income from colonies, but it would allow Italy pretty much uncontested control of the Adriatic sea and a strong presence in the Mediterranean, with all the benefits thereof. So they joined the Entente in 1915, hoping to quickly get what they wanted.

	'''They failed.''' While the occupation of Albania was a definite victory, the Italian theater quickly became one of the least successful fronts in the war. To get the right kind of picture, they couldn't push into Austria-Hungary, a country that couldn't completely liberate Galicia from Russian armies for three years, even as their senior partner Germany battered their way into France against the best and the most that the British and the French could throw at them. In fact, at ~~some~~ point they almost lost Venice to an Austrian offensive.		'''They failed.''' While the occupation of Albania was a definite victory, the Italian theater quickly became one of the least successful fronts in the war. To get the right kind of picture, they couldn't push into Austria-Hungary, a country that couldn't completely liberate Galicia from Russian armies for three years, even as their senior partner Germany battered their way into France against the best and the most that the British and the French could throw at them. In fact, at one point they almost lost Venice to an Austrian offensive.

	As rotten icing on the shitcake, their 'allies' ended up reneging on the deal ~~negociated~~ three years before and what little they managed to get was soon retaken by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk's now reorganized resistance. [[skub\|To what point it was premeditated is a discussion for another place and time, but Britain's unfair treatment of the island possessions crushed the Italian's dreams of Mediterranean domination. (As mentioned earlier, Britain was big on sea domination themselves so they gladly took the opportunity to curb-stomp a potential rival when presented with one.)]] In the end Italy got absolutely nothing, which led to them referring to their victory as the ''Vittoria Mutilata'' (Mutilated Victory).		As rotten icing on the shitcake, their 'allies' ended up reneging on the deal negotiated three years before and what little they managed to get was soon retaken by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk's now reorganized resistance. [[skub\|To what point it was premeditated is a discussion for another place and time, but Britain's unfair treatment of the island possessions crushed the Italian's dreams of Mediterranean domination. (As mentioned earlier, Britain was big on sea domination themselves so they gladly took the opportunity to curb-stomp a potential rival when presented with one.)]] In the end Italy got absolutely nothing, which led to them referring to their victory as the ''Vittoria Mutilata'' (Mutilated Victory).

	==Enter Il Duce==		==Enter Il Duce==

2A02:A03F:C17C:8100:F02A:701:A047:EAA7: Edited this a bit, will come back to ass dome more info on Benito later.

2023-06-05T12:10:57Z

Edited this a bit, will come back to ass dome more info on Benito later.

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:10, 5 June 2023
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	What? You've seen "The Godfather" haven't you? You think they just came over to America and started doing all that shit just because?		What? You've seen "The Godfather" haven't you? You think they just came over to America and started doing all that shit just because?

	~~Before the Great War kicked off~~, Italy ~~was~~ a ~~member of~~ the ~~Central Powers~~, ~~but as the conflict started the Italian government~~ decided to ~~rethink their relations with Germany, since they'd mainly promised~~ to ~~get involved if Germany~~ was ~~attacked~~ and ~~Germany had instead squared up~~ to ~~Serbia~~ and ~~Russia after Franz Ferdinand was assassinated. Both sides promised some post-war goodies - Berlin offered them parts~~ of ~~France (mainly Savoy and Provence)~~, ~~while London did~~ the ~~same~~ with ~~Austrian South Tyrol, Albania~~ (~~then Austrian-dominated~~) ~~and parts of the Ottoman Empire~~. In the ~~end Italian ambitions in the Adriatic region prevailed~~, and they ~~joined~~ the Entente ~~in 1915~~, ~~hoping to quickly~~ get ~~what they wanted~~.		Now, this is where things really start to heat up: as a unified country, Italy became a player on the European scene. [[Grimdark\|Like all other European countries, it sought to expand its wealth and influence through colonies.]] The French decided to immediately cock-block them by bitch-slapping them away from Tunis just to show them who was boss. The English remained prudent but they were wary about anyone with the capacity and will to lay down warships; and the ''Reggia Marina'', while not the size of the English fleet, could simply not be ignored in the case of any conflict with Italy (we'll return to this point a bit later). On the other side, though, Otto von Bismarck reached a hand out to Italy and eventually they signed the Triple Entente: a mutual aid assistance between Germany, Austro-Hungary and Italy should any of them get attacked.

	'''They failed.''' While the occupation of Albania was a definite victory, the Italian theater quickly became one of the least successful fronts in the war. To get the right kind of picture, they couldn't push into Austria-Hungary, a country that couldn't completely liberate Galicia from Russian armies for three years, even as their senior partner Germany battered their way into France against the best and the most that the British and the French could throw at them. In fact, at some point they almost lost Venice to an Austrian offensive. ~~And while~~ they managed to ~~survive until the end of the war and even~~ get ~~some Anatolian lands according to the Treaty of Sevres, Ataturk~~'s now reorganized resistance ~~managed to retake Asia Minor~~ and Britain's unfair treatment of the island possessions crushed ~~their~~ dreams of Mediterranean domination. In the end~~, they~~ got nothing, which led to them referring to their victory as the "Vittoria Mutilata" (Mutilated Victory)		But this situation satisfied no-one: both Austro-Hungary and Germany doubted (and eventually would be proven correct about) Italy's enthusiasm about the pact, while Italy remained frustrated about being unable to expand as they wanted. Thus when WWI started, the Italian government decided to rethink their relations with Germany. ([[Rules Lawyer\|On the technicity they'd only promised to get involved if Germany was attacked and they saw Germany as (defending) the aggressor. Romania invoked the exact same excuse.]]) When the lightning-quick war devolved into the worst possible meat grinder people couldn't have imagined at the time, both sides started looking for allies to break the stalemate and both started to court so-far neutral Italy. Both promised some post-war goodies - Germany offered them parts of France (mainly Savoy and Provence), while Britain did the same with Austrian South Tyrol, Albania (then Austrian-dominated) and parts of the Ottoman Empire.

			Now, considering Italy's situation in 1915, 'Albania and parts of the Ottoman empire' just sounded way better. Sure, it still wasn't the raw income from colonies, but it would allow Italy pretty much uncontested control of the Adriatic sea and a strong presence in the Mediterranean, with all the benefits thereof. So they joined the Entente in 1915, hoping to quickly get what they wanted.

			'''They failed.''' While the occupation of Albania was a definite victory, the Italian theater quickly became one of the least successful fronts in the war. To get the right kind of picture, they couldn't push into Austria-Hungary, a country that couldn't completely liberate Galicia from Russian armies for three years, even as their senior partner Germany battered their way into France against the best and the most that the British and the French could throw at them. In fact, at some point they almost lost Venice to an Austrian offensive.

			As rotten icing on the shitcake, their 'allies' ended up reneging on the deal negociated three years before and what little they managed to get was soon retaken by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk's now reorganized resistance. [[skub\|To what point it was premeditated is a discussion for another place and time, but Britain's unfair treatment of the island possessions crushed the Italian's dreams of Mediterranean domination. (As mentioned earlier, Britain was big on sea domination themselves so they gladly took the opportunity to curb-stomp a potential rival when presented with one.)]] In the end Italy got absolutely nothing, which led to them referring to their victory as the ''Vittoria Mutilata'' (Mutilated Victory).

	==Enter Il Duce==		==Enter Il Duce==

1d4chan>MrPhantom: /* Things Italy was ACTUALLY Good at */

2023-06-05T08:35:27Z

Things Italy was ACTUALLY Good at

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:35, 5 June 2023
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	* Air force (post 1943). Yes, despite little support from Germany and essentially having to fend of the Allied air forces by themselves, not only did they hold them off but they actually shot down more planes than the Germans. Italian aviation engineering was pretty good; Macchi and Savoia had two Schneider trophies each, and before the war Italy was a big player in seaplanes and passenger planes. They also really had a thing for trimotor designs (SM.79, Z.506). Their main problem was the intertwining of industry and government, with firms using political jockeying to advance their own interests and harm their opponents, along with boneheaded incompetence from the government itself.		* Air force (post 1943). Yes, despite little support from Germany and essentially having to fend of the Allied air forces by themselves, not only did they hold them off but they actually shot down more planes than the Germans. Italian aviation engineering was pretty good; Macchi and Savoia had two Schneider trophies each, and before the war Italy was a big player in seaplanes and passenger planes. They also really had a thing for trimotor designs (SM.79, Z.506). Their main problem was the intertwining of industry and government, with firms using political jockeying to advance their own interests and harm their opponents, along with boneheaded incompetence from the government itself.
	* Armored Cars. Oddly enough with their reputation in regards to tanks, Italian armored cars were pretty top notch, even after the 1943 split Germany elected to spend resources to continue the Italian development program.		* Armored Cars. Oddly enough with their reputation in regards to tanks, Italian armored cars were pretty top notch, even after the 1943 split Germany elected to spend resources to continue the Italian development program.
	* Its soldiers. Yes, really. Once they joined the Allies where they could actually fight for something while equipped with actual guns and bullets, they performed so well they shocked the Allied forces they fought beside. The Allies originally wanted nothing to do with the anti-fascist forces but after their first battle they were so impressed they did a complete 180 on the decision. Even before that, the Italian divisions that fought in North Africa impressed the Germans with their fighting spirit and aggression; they just tend to be left out of the narrative because everyone has a boner for Rommel and the Afrika Korps.		* Its soldiers. Yes, really. Once they joined the Allies where they could actually fight for something while equipped with actual guns and bullets, they performed so well they shocked the Allied forces they fought beside. The Allies originally wanted nothing to do with the anti-fascist forces but after their first battle they were so impressed they did a complete 180 on the decision. Even before that, the Italian divisions that fought in North Africa impressed the Germans with their fighting spirit and aggression; they just tend to be left out of the narrative because everyone has a boner for Rommel and the Afrika Korps. Speaking of Rommel, he personally considered the Italians under his command superior to his own Afrika Korps... at the soldier and low ranking officer level. It was like everyone going above lieutenant was legally obligated to get hit with a stupid stick.
	* Recycling! Resources were cut in every place they could be, and some weapons were even modified to catch ejected shells so they could be sent back to the factory.		* Recycling! Resources were cut in every place they could be, and some weapons were even modified to catch ejected shells so they could be sent back to the factory.

1d4chan>Piroko: /* Things Italy was ACTUALLY Good at */

2023-05-25T16:03:29Z

Things Italy was ACTUALLY Good at

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:03, 25 May 2023
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	* Italian submachine guns, especially from the Beretta company. In fact they were so good that not only were they prime targets for trophies, but the government decided to try and save some resources by asking the company to make their models WORSE.		* Italian submachine guns, especially from the Beretta company. In fact they were so good that not only were they prime targets for trophies, but the government decided to try and save some resources by asking the company to make their models WORSE.
	* Manned torpedoes (midget submarines used to plant mines directly on ships). They were actually so successful plans were being written up to sneak a team through the Atlantic and launch on attack on New York harbor, but was called off with the invasion of Italy. Overall the Regia Marina had good ships (better than Germany) but no radar and inflexible, risk-adverse leadership. Largely because they did not need to rebuild from scratch and they had a longer time to get it ready.		* Manned torpedoes (midget submarines used to plant mines directly on ships). They were actually so successful plans were being written up to sneak a team through the Atlantic and launch on attack on New York harbor, but was called off with the invasion of Italy. Overall the Regia Marina had good ships (better than Germany) but no radar and inflexible, risk-adverse leadership. Largely because they did not need to rebuild from scratch and they had a longer time to get it ready.
	* Air force (post 1943). Yes, despite little support from Germany and essentially having to fend of the Allied air forces by themselves, not only did they hold them off but they actually shot down more planes than the Germans. Italian aviation engineering was ~~in truth~~ pretty good ~~(especially at building seaplanes~~ and ~~multi-engine airliners; eg~~ the ~~CANT Z.506) but~~ was ~~hamstrung by conflicts between firms,~~ a ~~few political mandates~~ and ~~the ever present resource crunch~~. They also had a thing for ~~three-engine planes~~ (~~two on wing nacelles~~ and ~~one on~~ the ~~nose) for what it's worth~~.		* Air force (post 1943). Yes, despite little support from Germany and essentially having to fend of the Allied air forces by themselves, not only did they hold them off but they actually shot down more planes than the Germans. Italian aviation engineering was pretty good; Macchi and Savoia had two Schneider trophies each, and before the war Italy was a big player in seaplanes and passenger planes. They also really had a thing for trimotor designs (SM.79, Z.506). Their main problem was the intertwining of industry and government, with firms using political jockeying to advance their own interests and harm their opponents, along with boneheaded incompetence from the government itself.
	* Armored Cars. Oddly enough with their reputation in regards to tanks, Italian armored cars were pretty top notch, even after the 1943 split Germany elected to spend resources to continue the Italian development program.		* Armored Cars. Oddly enough with their reputation in regards to tanks, Italian armored cars were pretty top notch, even after the 1943 split Germany elected to spend resources to continue the Italian development program.
	* Its soldiers. Yes, really. Once they joined the Allies where they could actually fight for something while equipped with actual guns and bullets, they performed so well they shocked the Allied forces they fought beside. The Allies originally wanted nothing to do with the anti-fascist forces but after their first battle they were so impressed they did a complete 180 on the decision. Even before that, the Italian divisions that fought in North Africa impressed the Germans with their fighting spirit and aggression; they just tend to be left out of the narrative because everyone has a boner for Rommel and the Afrika Korps.		* Its soldiers. Yes, really. Once they joined the Allies where they could actually fight for something while equipped with actual guns and bullets, they performed so well they shocked the Allied forces they fought beside. The Allies originally wanted nothing to do with the anti-fascist forces but after their first battle they were so impressed they did a complete 180 on the decision. Even before that, the Italian divisions that fought in North Africa impressed the Germans with their fighting spirit and aggression; they just tend to be left out of the narrative because everyone has a boner for Rommel and the Afrika Korps.