Fighter - Revision history

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2023-06-21T04:31:45Z

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2023-06-19T01:40:30Z

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2.31.231.88: /* 2nd Edition */

2023-05-08T18:41:09Z

2nd Edition

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:41, 8 May 2023
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	More than any other class, the Fighter is the least bound by any class features, whereas other classes are forced to specialize in a specific part of their niche. While they have weapon mastery to grant better proficiency for one weapon group as well as access to crit effects, their impact boils down to slightly bigger numbers in combat for the most part. This makes Fighters incredibly open to archetyping since they lose so little from it. In addition, fighters have the ability to take temporary feats, as the [[Brawler]] did before. This was buffed because, instead of it being usable 3 + half Brawler level times per day for a few minutes, now Fighters can pick a Fighter class feat they don't have, picking at half their level.		More than any other class, the Fighter is the least bound by any class features, whereas other classes are forced to specialize in a specific part of their niche. While they have weapon mastery to grant better proficiency for one weapon group as well as access to crit effects, their impact boils down to slightly bigger numbers in combat for the most part. This makes Fighters incredibly open to archetyping since they lose so little from it. In addition, fighters have the ability to take temporary feats, as the [[Brawler]] did before. This was buffed because, instead of it being usable 3 + half Brawler level times per day for a few minutes, now Fighters can pick a Fighter class feat they don't have, picking at half their level.

	What makes Fighters shine is having both the best attack bonus progression and having a bunch of combat feats that allows them to cheat the action economy, though it is not unique to them (Barbarian and Ranger both get various similiar feats). However, by having an attack bonus that is superior any other class, they are more likely to critically hit than any other class (barring [[~~Gunslingers~~]]). Besides the usual double damage, fighters of level 5 or higher apply various penalties depending on the weapon they are using. From making them flat-footed, bleed or prone, a fighter in melee can bully a foe into submission with combat maneuvers or by simply being so good in hitting them. All this arguably makes the fighter the best martial class in the game, because being able to critically hit more than any other class pretty much outshines most other features other classes can offer.		What makes Fighters shine is having both the best attack bonus progression and having a bunch of combat feats that allows them to cheat the action economy, though it is not unique to them (Barbarian and Ranger both get various similiar feats). However, by having an attack bonus that is superior any other class, they are more likely to critically hit than any other class (barring the [[Gunslinger]]). Besides the usual double damage, fighters of level 5 or higher apply various penalties depending on the weapon they are using. From making them flat-footed, bleed or prone, a fighter in melee can bully a foe into submission with combat maneuvers or by simply being so good in hitting them. All this arguably makes the fighter the best martial class in the game, because being able to critically hit more than any other class pretty much outshines most other features other classes can offer.

	{{Pathfinder-2nd-Edition-Classes}}		{{Pathfinder-2nd-Edition-Classes}}

2.31.231.88: /* 2nd Edition */

2023-05-08T18:33:13Z

2nd Edition

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:33, 8 May 2023
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	===2nd Edition===		===2nd Edition===
	[[Image:Valeros2e.jpg\|thumb\|right\|320px\|Valeros, iconic fighter from Pathfinder Second Edition.]]		[[Image:Valeros2e.jpg\|thumb\|right\|320px\|Valeros, iconic fighter from Pathfinder Second Edition. Yeah, he has a shield now.]]

	To give Fighters something to do, they got exclusive access to Attacks of Opportunity before 6th level (and even then, only Barbarians, [[Magus\|Magi]] and [[Paladin\|Champions]] get it, and need to spend a class feat on it). Other than that, they remain the exact same opposite of the [[Skill monkey]] they are in any other D&D (Class feats are almost entirely combat utility, and almost no non-combat utility), although skill advancement is at the same rate as any other non-Rogue. Athletics and Intimidate remain your best skills, especially with the overhaul on how Combat Maneuvers work, while Crafting is critical for maintaining equipment regardless of focus (especially since shields can be damaged quite easily now). Dex fighters can get a lot out of Acrobatics, Stealth and Thievery. In combat, the only real weak spot they have is crossbows, as those weapons require multiple actions to reload and only the [[Ranger]] and [[Gunslinger]] can access the feats needed to facilitate on that front without dipping into an archetype.		To give Fighters something to do, they got exclusive access to Attacks of Opportunity before 6th level (and even then, only Barbarians, [[Magus\|Magi]] and [[Paladin\|Champions]] get it, and need to spend a class feat on it). Other than that, they remain the exact same opposite of the [[Skill monkey]] they are in any other D&D (Class feats are almost entirely combat utility, and almost no non-combat utility), although skill advancement is at the same rate as any other non-Rogue. Athletics and Intimidate remain your best skills, especially with the overhaul on how Combat Maneuvers work, while Crafting is critical for maintaining equipment regardless of focus (especially since shields can be damaged quite easily now). Dex fighters can get a lot out of Acrobatics, Stealth and Thievery. In combat, the only real weak spot they have is crossbows, as those weapons require multiple actions to reload and only the [[Ranger]] and [[Gunslinger]] can access the feats needed to facilitate on that front without dipping into an archetype.

1d4chan>GloriousGidofter: /* 2nd Edition */

2022-12-24T20:08:58Z

2nd Edition

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:08, 24 December 2022
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	More than any other class, the Fighter is the least bound by any class features, whereas other classes are forced to specialize in a specific part of their niche. While they have weapon mastery to grant better proficiency for one weapon group as well as access to crit effects, their impact boils down to slightly bigger numbers in combat for the most part. This makes Fighters incredibly open to archetyping since they lose so little from it. In addition, fighters have the ability to take temporary feats, as the [[Brawler]] did before. This was buffed because, instead of it being usable 3 + half Brawler level times per day for a few minutes, now Fighters can pick a Fighter class feat they don't have, picking at half their level.		More than any other class, the Fighter is the least bound by any class features, whereas other classes are forced to specialize in a specific part of their niche. While they have weapon mastery to grant better proficiency for one weapon group as well as access to crit effects, their impact boils down to slightly bigger numbers in combat for the most part. This makes Fighters incredibly open to archetyping since they lose so little from it. In addition, fighters have the ability to take temporary feats, as the [[Brawler]] did before. This was buffed because, instead of it being usable 3 + half Brawler level times per day for a few minutes, now Fighters can pick a Fighter class feat they don't have, picking at half their level.

	What makes Fighters shine is having both the best attack bonus progression and having a bunch of combat feats that allows them to cheat the action economy, though it is not unique to them (Barbarian and Ranger both get various similiar feats). However, by having an attack bonus that is superior any other class, they are ~~quite~~ more likely to critically hit. Besides the usual double damage, fighters of level 5 or higher apply various penalties depending on the weapon they are using. From making them flat-footed, bleed or prone, a fighter in melee can bully a foe into submission with combat maneuvers or by simply being so good in hitting them. All this arguably makes the fighter the best martial class in the game, because being able to critically hit more than any other class pretty much outshines most other features other classes can offer.		What makes Fighters shine is having both the best attack bonus progression and having a bunch of combat feats that allows them to cheat the action economy, though it is not unique to them (Barbarian and Ranger both get various similiar feats). However, by having an attack bonus that is superior any other class, they are more likely to critically hit than any other class (barring [[Gunslingers]]). Besides the usual double damage, fighters of level 5 or higher apply various penalties depending on the weapon they are using. From making them flat-footed, bleed or prone, a fighter in melee can bully a foe into submission with combat maneuvers or by simply being so good in hitting them. All this arguably makes the fighter the best martial class in the game, because being able to critically hit more than any other class pretty much outshines most other features other classes can offer.

	{{Pathfinder-2nd-Edition-Classes}}		{{Pathfinder-2nd-Edition-Classes}}

1d4chan>GloriousGidofter: /* 2nd Edition */

2022-12-24T20:06:54Z

2nd Edition

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:06, 24 December 2022
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	[[Image:Valeros2e.jpg\|thumb\|right\|320px\|Valeros, iconic fighter from Pathfinder Second Edition.]]		[[Image:Valeros2e.jpg\|thumb\|right\|320px\|Valeros, iconic fighter from Pathfinder Second Edition.]]

	To give Fighters something to do, they got exclusive access to Attacks of Opportunity before 6th level (and even then, only Barbarians and [[Paladin\|Champions]] get it, and need to spend a class feat on it). Other than that, they remain the exact same opposite of the [[Skill monkey]] they are in any other D&D (Class feats are almost entirely combat utility, and almost no non-combat utility), although skill advancement is at the same rate as any other non-Rogue. Athletics and Intimidate remain your best skills, especially with the overhaul on how Combat Maneuvers work, while Crafting is critical for maintaining equipment regardless of focus (especially since shields can be damaged quite easily now). Dex fighters can get a lot out of Acrobatics, Stealth and Thievery. In combat, the only real weak spot they have is crossbows, as those weapons require multiple actions to reload and only the [[Ranger]] and [[Gunslinger]] can access the feats needed to facilitate on that front without dipping into an archetype.		To give Fighters something to do, they got exclusive access to Attacks of Opportunity before 6th level (and even then, only Barbarians, [[Magus\|Magi]] and [[Paladin\|Champions]] get it, and need to spend a class feat on it). Other than that, they remain the exact same opposite of the [[Skill monkey]] they are in any other D&D (Class feats are almost entirely combat utility, and almost no non-combat utility), although skill advancement is at the same rate as any other non-Rogue. Athletics and Intimidate remain your best skills, especially with the overhaul on how Combat Maneuvers work, while Crafting is critical for maintaining equipment regardless of focus (especially since shields can be damaged quite easily now). Dex fighters can get a lot out of Acrobatics, Stealth and Thievery. In combat, the only real weak spot they have is crossbows, as those weapons require multiple actions to reload and only the [[Ranger]] and [[Gunslinger]] can access the feats needed to facilitate on that front without dipping into an archetype.

	More than any other class, the Fighter is the least bound by any class features, whereas other classes are forced to specialize in a specific part of their niche. While they have weapon mastery to grant better proficiency for one weapon group as well as access to crit effects, their impact boils down to slightly bigger numbers in combat for the most part. This makes Fighters incredibly open to archetyping since they lose so little from it. In addition, fighters have the ability to take temporary feats, as the [[Brawler]] did before. This was buffed because, instead of it being usable 3 + half Brawler level times per day for a few minutes, now Fighters can pick a Fighter class feat they don't have, picking at half their level.		More than any other class, the Fighter is the least bound by any class features, whereas other classes are forced to specialize in a specific part of their niche. While they have weapon mastery to grant better proficiency for one weapon group as well as access to crit effects, their impact boils down to slightly bigger numbers in combat for the most part. This makes Fighters incredibly open to archetyping since they lose so little from it. In addition, fighters have the ability to take temporary feats, as the [[Brawler]] did before. This was buffed because, instead of it being usable 3 + half Brawler level times per day for a few minutes, now Fighters can pick a Fighter class feat they don't have, picking at half their level.

1d4chan>SpectralTime: /* 1st Edition */

2022-12-23T09:53:05Z

1st Edition

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:53, 23 December 2022
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	Unfortunately, with a pitiful dribble of skill points and limited skill selection anyway, they don't tend to be much use once things are actually being done out of combat, barring pure roleplaying or trait-use to gain one good skill. In-fact, Fighter is the '''only''' player class in the game to have 2+int skill points per level and no casting ability. A lot of the time, if no fighting's going on, the fighter's player may as well just go off to use the restroom or crack open a soda for all the use he'll be. One way around this is to take the Tactician archetype, which gives them a lot more skill points and class skills, offers great bonuses and buffing capacity for having high mental stats, and barely reduces their combat effectiveness in the bargain. The only real price is a little bit of [[MAD]] trouble, but if you rolled well on your scores and want to make a character who can kick ass and still be the charismatic and intelligent party leader, consider it.		Unfortunately, with a pitiful dribble of skill points and limited skill selection anyway, they don't tend to be much use once things are actually being done out of combat, barring pure roleplaying or trait-use to gain one good skill. In-fact, Fighter is the '''only''' player class in the game to have 2+int skill points per level and no casting ability. A lot of the time, if no fighting's going on, the fighter's player may as well just go off to use the restroom or crack open a soda for all the use he'll be. One way around this is to take the Tactician archetype, which gives them a lot more skill points and class skills, offers great bonuses and buffing capacity for having high mental stats, and barely reduces their combat effectiveness in the bargain. The only real price is a little bit of [[MAD]] trouble, but if you rolled well on your scores and want to make a character who can kick ass and still be the charismatic and intelligent party leader, consider it.

			They also suffer from some of the core problems of 3.X, like movement beyond 5 ft. steps and full attacking being mutually exclusive and iterative attacks suffering increasingly hefty penalties, but a lot of the cheesier tricks they used to be able to use to get around them are either gone or now exclusive to other classes.

	There are also two particular books (''Armor Master's Handbook'' and ''Weapon Master's Handbook'') which mitigate a degree to which the fighter can actually contribute both in and out of combat. By sacrificing one level of Weapon or Armor training after the first, they can instead gain special training options. Among the notable ones are Versatile Training (BAB=skill ranks for two skills as designated by weapon group), Armored Juggernaut (Damage Resistance when wearing armor), Warrior Spirit (gain the power to add a temporary magical bonus to a weapon), and Fighter's Reflexes (Add weapon training to Reflex). Though practically all the archetypes trade these off one way or another, it's an incentive for those who don't or those who find that they need something more than +1 on a weapon.		There are also two particular books (''Armor Master's Handbook'' and ''Weapon Master's Handbook'') which mitigate a degree to which the fighter can actually contribute both in and out of combat. By sacrificing one level of Weapon or Armor training after the first, they can instead gain special training options. Among the notable ones are Versatile Training (BAB=skill ranks for two skills as designated by weapon group), Armored Juggernaut (Damage Resistance when wearing armor), Warrior Spirit (gain the power to add a temporary magical bonus to a weapon), and Fighter's Reflexes (Add weapon training to Reflex). Though practically all the archetypes trade these off one way or another, it's an incentive for those who don't or those who find that they need something more than +1 on a weapon.

1d4chan>SpectralTime: /* How to play one effectively */

2022-12-23T09:49:16Z

How to play one effectively

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:49, 23 December 2022
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	You've got three options, depending on how optimized you want to be:		You've got three options, depending on how optimized you want to be:

	#Dip and get out (dungeoncrusher alternate class features aren't bad if you wanna go past 2)		#Dip and get out (dungeoncrusher alternate class features aren't bad even if you don't wanna go past 2)
	#Add some homebrew bullsh** to make them suck less		#Add some homebrew bullsh** to make them suck less
	#Play as an orc or warforged. Orcs have +4 strength and no penalties to con or dex, which is fucking amazing for a +0 LA race. Warforged, meanwhile, can take Adamantine Body at level 1 and be borderline indestructible for those first several levels until they can prestige into Juggernaut. If all you can do is hit stuff with a stick, you might as well get really really good at it. Dwarf might also be a good choice of race.		#Play as an orc or warforged. Orcs have +4 strength and no penalties to con or dex, which is fucking amazing for a +0 LA race. Warforged, meanwhile, have a shitload of immunities so you don't have to worry about saves so much and can take Adamantine Body at level 1 and be borderline indestructible for those first several levels until they can prestige into Juggernaut. If all you can do is hit stuff with a stick, you might as well get really really good at it. Dwarf might also be a good choice of race.

	Weaponwise, you'll want to get one of the best options: spiked chain, rope dart, or dragon chain (for trip builds), kaorti resin jovar or kaorti resin elven courtblade (for crit builds), dwarven warpike (for polearm builds), gnomish quickrazor (for iaijutsu focus), and so on.		Weaponwise, you'll want to get one of the best options: spiked chain, rope dart, or dragon chain (for trip builds), kaorti resin jovar or kaorti resin elven courtblade (for crit builds), dwarven warpike (for polearm builds), gnomish quickrazor (for iaijutsu focus), and so on.

1d4chan>SpectralTime: /* 3rd edition */

2022-12-23T09:48:03Z

3rd edition

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:48, 23 December 2022
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	The new skill system overtook things that any character could do in previous versions of the game, and with their tiny number of "skill points", fighters became helpless bumbling buffoons in just about everything... not that more skill points would have helped them. All of their class skills that benefited from their best stats (strength and dexterity) suffered huge nerfs when wearing heavy armor. They had no class skills that benefited from their second most important stat (constitution) and only one (ride) that benefited from their third most important stat (dexterity), and the rest of their stats were dump stats. So, in other words, they had exactly one skill that was actually worth putting skill points into.		The new skill system overtook things that any character could do in previous versions of the game, and with their tiny number of "skill points", fighters became helpless bumbling buffoons in just about everything... not that more skill points would have helped them. All of their class skills that benefited from their best stats (strength and dexterity) suffered huge nerfs when wearing heavy armor. They had no class skills that benefited from their second most important stat (constitution) and only one (ride) that benefited from their third most important stat (dexterity), and the rest of their stats were dump stats. So, in other words, they had exactly one skill that was actually worth putting skill points into.

	Meanwhile, spellcasting became so easy, and surviving to the level where higher level spells were possible so likely, that a single [[CoDzilla\|caster]] could bring down entire armies in one or two rounds. The result was that your party was better off having an animal companion or the ''summon monster'' line of spells than with a fighter. Fighter became something you multi-classed your [[rogue]] or [[cleric]] into for one or two levels, in order to get their bonus feats and weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies. It was still a scrumptious dip class for those first few levels, but it was generally best left behind afterwards.		Meanwhile, spellcasting became so easy, and surviving to the level where higher level spells were possible so likely, that a single [[CoDzilla\|caster]] could bring down entire armies in one or two rounds. The result was that your party was better off having an animal companion or the ''summon monster'' line of spells than with a fighter. Fighter became something you multi-classed your [[rogue]], [[barbarian]], or [[cleric]] into for one or two levels, in order to get their bonus feats and weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies. It was still a scrumptious dip class for those first few levels, but it was generally best left behind afterwards.

	Fighter is the only class in the game to have '''two''' iconic characters that actually got used: Tordeck the dwarf and Regdar the human. Tordeck came first, but the suits came and demanded the Fighter iconic be a Human male ''and'' this human male be prominent in art. In response, the devs made both the iconic and, as an in-joke about their disdain for the situation, illustrations featuring Regdar were primarily of the him being victim of various hazards or abilities. This ended with Regdar appearing dead in the core book for 4th edition.		Fighter is the only class in the game to have '''two''' iconic characters that actually got used: Tordeck the dwarf and Regdar the human. Tordeck came first, but the suits came and demanded the Fighter iconic be a Human male ''and'' this human male be prominent in art. In response, the devs made both the iconic and, as an in-joke about their disdain for the situation, illustrations featuring Regdar were primarily of the him being victim of various hazards or abilities. This ended with Regdar appearing dead in the core book for 4th edition.

1d4chan>ThatOneBruvva: /* 13th Age */

2022-09-27T18:25:47Z

13th Age

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:25, 27 September 2022
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	{{D&D4-Classes}}		{{D&D4-Classes}}

	===13th Age===		===[[13th Age]]===
	In [[13th Age]], the fighter is broadly similar to it's 4th Edition counterpart, but has a ~~few~~ few things that make them more suited to how 13th Age ~~does things~~.		In [[13th Age]], the fighter is broadly similar to it's 4th Edition counterpart, but has a few things that make them more suited to how 13th Age plays.

	Interestingly enough, despite 13th Age using an odd approach to class design with having "Simple classes" (not at all dissimilar to the Essentials subclasses from 4e) that are designed to be easier to play, the Fighter is not one of these, which is a good thing as consensus on the simple classes is that they were [[Paladin\|Given the]] [[Ranger\|short end]] [[Barbarian\|of the stick]]. A Fighter in 13th Age has two concrete features, "Extra Tough" gives you 9 Recoveries instead of the usual 8 (Recoveries are fixed instead of the way Healing Surges worked in 4e) and "Threatening" makes it harder for enemies to Disengage with the Fighter.		Interestingly enough, despite 13th Age using an odd approach to class design with having "Simple classes" (not at all dissimilar to the Essentials subclasses from 4e) that are designed to be easier to play, the Fighter is not one of these, which is a good thing as consensus on the simple classes is that they were [[Paladin\|Given the]] [[Ranger\|short end]] [[Barbarian\|of the stick]]. A Fighter in 13th Age has two concrete features, "Extra Tough" gives you 9 Recoveries instead of the usual 8 (Recoveries are fixed instead of the way Healing Surges worked in 4e) and "Threatening" makes it harder for enemies to Disengage with the Fighter.

	The Fighter's Talents are where your Playstyle is defined, starting at 3 and giving you 1 more at a later level, these can make you either a Tank, a Striker, or something in between, and you have the ability to build between melee or ranged. A Fighter also gets Maneuvers, which function like [[Weeaboo Fightan Magic]] more ~~then~~ the [[AEDU System]], but these are weird. When you attack with one, you must meet a requirement to gain the Maneuvers Effect, usually a natural roll on the die, for example, the "Punish Them" (damn Heinsoo that's pretty [[Slaanesh\|kinky]]) Maneuver requires you to have a natural result on the die of 16 or higher. For very obvious reasons, this is incredibly frustrating if you don't get the result the power requires, and can lead to moments of [[RAGE]] at the table.		The Fighter's Talents are where your Playstyle is defined, starting at 3 and giving you 1 more at a later level, these can make you either a Tank, a Striker, or something in between, and you have the ability to build between melee or ranged. A Fighter also gets Maneuvers, which function like [[Weeaboo Fightan Magic]] more than the [[AEDU System]], but these are weird. When you attack with one, you must meet a requirement to gain the Maneuvers Effect, usually a natural roll on the die, for example, the "Punish Them" (damn Heinsoo that's pretty [[Slaanesh\|kinky]]) Maneuver requires you to have a natural result on the die of 16 or higher. For very obvious reasons, this is incredibly frustrating if you don't get the result the power requires, and can lead to moments of [[RAGE]] at the table.

			Notably, when the second edition was announced in 2022, lead dev Rob Heinsoo made a particular note about revamping the Fighter and changing how maneuvers would trigger, turning them now into special attacks rather than something that just triggers if you roll a certain number - which could be an interesting shift depending on how these maneuvers adjust to it. He also hinted at lifting some tricks from the Humakti class from the [[Glorantha]] splat (essentially a warrior powered by a martial war-god), which leaves a couple interesting ideas.

	===5th edition===		===5th edition===