First Founding - Revision history

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2001:8003:1C20:8C00:6547:7D11:DD59:F542: /* Number of Legionaries */

2023-05-29T16:29:39Z

Number of Legionaries

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:29, 29 May 2023
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	*[[Emperor's Children]] - 110,000 before the Isstvan Atrocity		*[[Emperor's Children]] - 110,000 before the Isstvan Atrocity
	*[[Iron Warriors]] - 150,000 to 180,000 but could have been more, if not for them regularly taking horrific casualties. The estimate is from after the notably costly series of wars that preceded their betrayal, suggesting higher numbers in the past.		*[[Iron Warriors]] - 150,000 to 180,000 but could have been more, if not for them regularly taking horrific casualties. The estimate is from after the notably costly series of wars that preceded their betrayal, suggesting higher numbers in the past.
	*[[White Scars]] - 95,000 (Horus Heresy III: Extermination states they had 800 pioneer companies [[Derp\|as few as 500 marines each]], implying they had [[What\|400 000 marines]], but [[Fail\|this can probably be discounted]])		*[[White Scars]] - 95,000 (Horus Heresy III: Extermination states they had 800 pioneer companies [[Derp\|of as few as 500 marines each]], implying they had [[What\|400 000 marines]], but [[Fail\|this can probably be discounted]])
	*[[Space Wolves]] - 90,000 to 95,000, with 75,000 gathered for Prospero and 20,000 to 25,000 elsewhere		*[[Space Wolves]] - 90,000 to 95,000, with 75,000 gathered for Prospero and 20,000 to 25,000 elsewhere
	*[[Imperial Fists]] - 100,000, the 20,000 at Phall were said to be 1/5 of the Legion		*[[Imperial Fists]] - 100,000, the 20,000 at Phall were said to be 1/5 of the Legion

2001:8003:1C20:8C00:6547:7D11:DD59:F542: /* Number of Legionaries */

2023-05-29T16:29:14Z

Number of Legionaries

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:29, 29 May 2023
Line 108:		Line 108:
	*[[Emperor's Children]] - 110,000 before the Isstvan Atrocity		*[[Emperor's Children]] - 110,000 before the Isstvan Atrocity
	*[[Iron Warriors]] - 150,000 to 180,000 but could have been more, if not for them regularly taking horrific casualties. The estimate is from after the notably costly series of wars that preceded their betrayal, suggesting higher numbers in the past.		*[[Iron Warriors]] - 150,000 to 180,000 but could have been more, if not for them regularly taking horrific casualties. The estimate is from after the notably costly series of wars that preceded their betrayal, suggesting higher numbers in the past.
	*[[White Scars]] - 95,000		*[[White Scars]] - 95,000 (Horus Heresy III: Extermination states they had 800 pioneer companies [[Derp\|as few as 500 marines each]], implying they had [[What\|400 000 marines]], but [[Fail\|this can probably be discounted]])
	*[[Space Wolves]] - 90,000 to 95,000, with 75,000 gathered for Prospero and 20,000 to 25,000 elsewhere		*[[Space Wolves]] - 90,000 to 95,000, with 75,000 gathered for Prospero and 20,000 to 25,000 elsewhere
	*[[Imperial Fists]] - 100,000, the 20,000 at Phall were said to be 1/5 of the Legion		*[[Imperial Fists]] - 100,000, the 20,000 at Phall were said to be 1/5 of the Legion

1d4chan>Rogalydondon: /* Legions in 40k */

2023-04-30T06:57:51Z

Legions in 40k

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:57, 30 April 2023
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	==Legions in 40k==		==Legions in 40k==
	Technically all of the Chaos Marines are still 'legions', at least in name. They never split into chapters so legions they technically remain. However, since they are ~~all~~ split up into roving warbands and there is no central control ([[Black Legion\|with]] [[Word Bearers\|a]] [[Death Guard\|few]] [[Thousand Sons\|exceptions]]) it's hard to say they really count anymore. Perhaps most importantly it's impossible to guess how many dudes there are even technically in any ~~legions~~ pool. When they aren't fighting the Imperium, they are fighting each other, and since none of the Black Crusades have been successful we can reasonably assume that ~~marines~~ aren't pouring out of the Eye of Terror in their hundreds of thousands. It's utterly impossible to guess how many dudes they got. They obviously have enough to attack the Imperium with (especially since their recruiting practices aren't as picky as their Loyalist counterparts), but probably not much more than the Loyalist Space Marines. Probably more than they came to the Eye with though, between further recruiting (from the Eye of Terror human population and anyone they can abduct/brainwash) and former Loyalists turning to Chaos.		Technically all of the Chaos Marines are still 'legions', at least in name. They never split into chapters, so legions they technically remain. However, since they are mostly split up into roving warbands and there is no central control ([[Black Legion\|with]] [[Word Bearers\|a]] [[Death Guard\|few]] [[Thousand Sons\|exceptions]]) it's hard to say they really count anymore. Perhaps most importantly it's impossible to guess how many dudes there are even technically in any legion's pool. When they aren't fighting the Imperium, they are fighting each other, and since none of the Black Crusades have been successful we can reasonably assume that Chaos Marines aren't pouring out of the Eye of Terror in their hundreds of thousands. It's utterly impossible to guess how many dudes they've got. They obviously have enough to attack the Imperium with (especially since their recruiting practices aren't as picky as their Loyalist counterparts), but probably not much more than the Loyalist Space Marines. Probably more than they came to the Eye with though, between further recruiting (from the Eye of Terror human population and anyone they can abduct/brainwash) and former Loyalists turning to Chaos.

	As for the Loyalists... Since the introduction of the [[Codex Astartes]], there are obviously no longer any Space Marine legions though that does not stop certain chapters from being described or implied to be at ''"Legion Strength"''. Though this is often a common [[Neckbeard]] error and sometimes even gets used in the fluff, where the term is mistakenly used to describe any significantly oversized chapter, though even then they never compare to the forces from the Great Crusade. Though some make a good attempt at it:		As for the Loyalists... Since the introduction of the [[Codex Astartes]], there are obviously no longer any loyalist Space Marine legions though that does not stop certain chapters from being described or implied to be at ''"Legion Strength"''. Though this is often a common [[Neckbeard]] error and sometimes even gets used in the fluff, where the term is mistakenly used to describe any significantly oversized chapter, though even then they never compare to the forces from the Great Crusade. Though some make a good attempt at it:

	*[[Imperial Fists]] - As it turned out, Dorn didn't fully break up his Legion. Every Son of Dorn chapter has a secret plan dubbed "The Last Wall"- if the main Chapter were to encounter an immediate threat to Terra, it could call its successor chapters to unite them into a full Legion until the threat is dealt with; the prospect of so many chapters working in such close cooperation was something that frightened the [[High Lords of Terra]] and they did not approve. Nonetheless, this plan not only saved Terra from [[The War of The Beast\|the largest Ork WAAAGH!! the Imperium has ever dealt with]], but also rescued the Imperial Fists from ''actual'' extinction in the process.		*[[Imperial Fists]] - As it turned out, Dorn didn't fully break up his Legion. Every Son of Dorn chapter has a secret plan dubbed "The Last Wall"- if the main Chapter were to encounter an immediate threat to Terra, it could call its successor chapters to unite them into a full Legion until the threat is dealt with; the prospect of so many chapters working in such close cooperation was something that frightened the [[High Lords of Terra]] and they did not approve. Nonetheless, this plan not only saved Terra from [[The War of The Beast\|the largest Ork WAAAGH!! the Imperium has ever dealt with]], but also rescued the Imperial Fists from ''actual'' extinction in the process.
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	*[[Ultramarines]] - The 23 [[Second Founding]] chapters of the Ultramarines are all represented in the senate of [[Ultramar]] and some of them would cooperate on matters of Codex orthodoxy to ensure that there were no deviations. The [[Genesis Chapter]] in particular routinely loaned squads and officers to the Ultramarines to fill in gaps, while other successors could loan squads to the [[Ultramarines Honour Company]] and get to wear the blue uniform. Because the Ultramarines account for nearly half of the later-founded chapters in the Imperium, they would amount to around ''500,000 marines'' and nominally look to their progenitor for the source of their leadership and guidance, with instances of Marneus Calgar stepping in to settle disputes between chapters not even of his bloodline or issuing decrees against [[Minotaurs\|chapters]] in matters that have nothing to do with the Ultramarines directly. With the return of [[Roboute Guilliman]] and his re-organisation of both the Codex and the region of Ultramar; even though chapters officially maintain their sovereignty apart from each other, he has formally created a cross-Chapter command structure of Tetrarchs to coordinate and protect the Five-Hundred Worlds.		*[[Ultramarines]] - The 23 [[Second Founding]] chapters of the Ultramarines are all represented in the senate of [[Ultramar]] and some of them would cooperate on matters of Codex orthodoxy to ensure that there were no deviations. The [[Genesis Chapter]] in particular routinely loaned squads and officers to the Ultramarines to fill in gaps, while other successors could loan squads to the [[Ultramarines Honour Company]] and get to wear the blue uniform. Because the Ultramarines account for nearly half of the later-founded chapters in the Imperium, they would amount to around ''500,000 marines'' and nominally look to their progenitor for the source of their leadership and guidance, with instances of Marneus Calgar stepping in to settle disputes between chapters not even of his bloodline or issuing decrees against [[Minotaurs\|chapters]] in matters that have nothing to do with the Ultramarines directly. With the return of [[Roboute Guilliman]] and his re-organisation of both the Codex and the region of Ultramar; even though chapters officially maintain their sovereignty apart from each other, he has formally created a cross-Chapter command structure of Tetrarchs to coordinate and protect the Five-Hundred Worlds.

	All of the original legions maintain ties with with their subsequent founding chapters (except for the Salamanders, who ~~don~~'t have any confirmed successors, and ignore the unconfirmed ones), though the level of formality is different from Chapter to Chapter. The Blood Angels occasionally call all their bros together and go to war, even going to far as to demand they provide the Blood Angels with new squads so that they could rebuild their weakened chapter.		All of the original legions maintain ties with with their subsequent founding chapters (except for the Salamanders, who didn't have any confirmed successors until the Ultima Founding, and ignore the unconfirmed ones), though the level of formality is different from Chapter to Chapter. The Blood Angels occasionally call all their bros together and go to war, even going to far as to demand they provide the Blood Angels with new squads so that they could rebuild their weakened chapter, but even in those cases, [[Gabriel Seth]] had to remind [[Dante]] that he had no authority to actually demand troops from his successors and might get further by asking nicely.

	The Imperial Fists successors did the same thing during the ~~war~~ of the Beast; donning Imperial Fist colours to ensure that the Chapter would not go extinct ~~but even in those cases, [[Gabriel Seth]] had to remind [[Dante]] that he had no authority to actually demand troops from his successors and might get further by asking nicely~~.The new Imperial Fists considered changing their colours controversial and a little bit blasphemous, ~~with~~ the [[High Lords of Terra]] generally ~~protesting~~ about Space Marines working in such close cooperation at all.		The Imperial Fists successors did the same thing during the War of the Beast by donning Imperial Fist colours to ensure that the Chapter would not go extinct after it was nearly wiped out. The new Imperial Fists considered changing their colours controversial and a little bit blasphemous, and the [[High Lords of Terra]] generally weren't happy about that many Space Marines working in such close cooperation at all.

	While musing with Aeonid Thiel, Guilliman's original dream for the Codex was not to ~~simply~~ split up the Legions at all, but to create a single unified Legion formed of self-sufficient chapters that would come together or break apart as necessary, irrespective of their individual bloodlines, while making it harder for a taint in one chapter to ~~effect~~ the whole.		While musing with Aeonid Thiel, Guilliman's original dream for the Codex was not to split up the Legions at all, but to create a single unified Legion formed of self-sufficient chapters that would come together or break apart as necessary, irrespective of their individual bloodlines, while making it harder for a taint in one chapter to affect the whole.

	Given the number of times multiple chapters from different legions have gotten together for a big crusade, he ~~arguable~~ succeed in this goal. Much of what goes on with the Ultramarines tended to be done out of starry-eyed respect and deference towards them rather than grudging support, so in this case, their high level of cooperation appears to be following the spirit of Guilliman's original idea quite well.		Given the number of times multiple chapters from different legions have gotten together for a big crusade, he arguably succeed in this goal. Much of what goes on with the Ultramarines tended to be done out of starry-eyed respect and deference towards them rather than grudging support, so in this case, their high level of cooperation appears to be following the spirit of Guilliman's original idea quite well.

	Obviously, the High Lords would prefer to think otherwise because they were scared to death of the possibility of a second Space Marine unification and uprising, even going so far as to plotting to overthrow the resurrected Lord Guilliman before he took control over the Senatorum (which instantly backfired when the Custodians got ~~whiff~~ of it in about ten minutes, also you know, '''PRIMARCH''').		Obviously, the High Lords would prefer to think otherwise because they were scared to death of the possibility of a second Space Marine unification and uprising, even going so far as to plotting to overthrow the resurrected Lord Guilliman before he took control over the Senatorum (which instantly backfired when the Custodians got wind of it in about ten minutes, also you know, '''PRIMARCH''').

	==Two Unknown Legions==		==Two Unknown Legions==

2607:FB90:3F8A:5651:AD43:E267:214B:6726: /* Legions in 40k */

2023-02-22T01:01:11Z

Legions in 40k

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:01, 22 February 2023
Line 156:		Line 156:

	==Legions in 40k==		==Legions in 40k==
	Technically all of the Chaos Marines are still 'legions', at least in name. They never split into chapters so legions they technically remain. However, since they are all split up into roving warbands and there is no central control ([[Black Legion\|with a]] [[Death Guard\|few]] [[Thousand Sons\|exceptions]]) it's hard to say they really count anymore. Perhaps most importantly it's impossible to guess how many dudes there are even technically in any legions pool. When they aren't fighting the Imperium, they are fighting each other, and since none of the Black Crusades have been successful we can reasonably assume that marines aren't pouring out of the Eye of Terror in their hundreds of thousands. It's utterly impossible to guess how many dudes they got. They obviously have enough to attack the Imperium with (especially since their recruiting practices aren't as picky as their Loyalist counterparts), but probably not much more than the Loyalist Space Marines. Probably more than they came to the Eye with though, between further recruiting (from the Eye of Terror human population and anyone they can abduct/brainwash) and former Loyalists turning to Chaos.		Technically all of the Chaos Marines are still 'legions', at least in name. They never split into chapters so legions they technically remain. However, since they are all split up into roving warbands and there is no central control ([[Black Legion\|with]] [[Word Bearers\|a]] [[Death Guard\|few]] [[Thousand Sons\|exceptions]]) it's hard to say they really count anymore. Perhaps most importantly it's impossible to guess how many dudes there are even technically in any legions pool. When they aren't fighting the Imperium, they are fighting each other, and since none of the Black Crusades have been successful we can reasonably assume that marines aren't pouring out of the Eye of Terror in their hundreds of thousands. It's utterly impossible to guess how many dudes they got. They obviously have enough to attack the Imperium with (especially since their recruiting practices aren't as picky as their Loyalist counterparts), but probably not much more than the Loyalist Space Marines. Probably more than they came to the Eye with though, between further recruiting (from the Eye of Terror human population and anyone they can abduct/brainwash) and former Loyalists turning to Chaos.

	As for the Loyalists... Since the introduction of the [[Codex Astartes]], there are obviously no longer any Space Marine legions though that does not stop certain chapters from being described or implied to be at ''"Legion Strength"''. Though this is often a common [[Neckbeard]] error and sometimes even gets used in the fluff, where the term is mistakenly used to describe any significantly oversized chapter, though even then they never compare to the forces from the Great Crusade. Though some make a good attempt at it:		As for the Loyalists... Since the introduction of the [[Codex Astartes]], there are obviously no longer any Space Marine legions though that does not stop certain chapters from being described or implied to be at ''"Legion Strength"''. Though this is often a common [[Neckbeard]] error and sometimes even gets used in the fluff, where the term is mistakenly used to describe any significantly oversized chapter, though even then they never compare to the forces from the Great Crusade. Though some make a good attempt at it:

202.160.36.16: /* Assets */

2022-12-25T10:55:17Z

Assets

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:55, 25 December 2022
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	*[[Praetor (Space Marine)\|Praetor]], became the [[Chapter Master]] role.		*[[Praetor (Space Marine)\|Praetor]], became the [[Chapter Master]] role.
	*[[Legion Vigilator]], succeeded by Scouts and Eliminators as well.		*[[Legion Vigilator]], succeeded by Scouts and Eliminators as well.
	*[[Consul]]		*Various other [[Consul]] roles

	== Horus Heresy ==		== Horus Heresy ==

202.160.36.16: /* The Legions */

2022-12-21T06:59:40Z

The Legions

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:59, 21 December 2022
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	!XV		!XV
	\|[[Magnus the Red]] \|\| [[Prospero]] \|\| [[Thousand Sons]]		\|[[Magnus the Red]] \|\| [[Prospero]] \|\| [[Thousand Sons]]
	\| style="background-color: maroon;color:white;"\| <s>Did Nothing Wrong</s> Traitors (Because of those fuckwit Space Wolves and Horus. Also Fucking Tzeentch)		\| style="background-color: maroon;color:white;"\| <s>Did Nothing Wrong</s> Traitors (Because of those fuckwit Space Wolves and Horus. Also Fucking Tzeentch and Magnus)
	\|-		\|-
	!XVI		!XVI

202.160.36.16: /* Assets */

2022-11-26T08:10:07Z

Assets

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:10, 26 November 2022
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	*[[Master of the Signal]]		*[[Master of the Signal]]
	*[[Legion Herald]], succeeded by Ancient and [[Primaris Ancient]].		*[[Legion Herald]], succeeded by Ancient and [[Primaris Ancient]].
	*[[Praetor]], became the [[Chapter Master]] role.		*[[Praetor (Space Marine)\|Praetor]], became the [[Chapter Master]] role.
	*[[Legion Vigilator]], succeeded by Scouts and Eliminators as well.		*[[Legion Vigilator]], succeeded by Scouts and Eliminators as well.
	*[[Consul]]		*[[Consul]]