Gav Thorpe - Revision history

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2023-06-21T14:05:35Z

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2023-06-19T01:49:33Z

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1d4chan>Fikilili: /* And then there's the elves... */

2023-05-18T14:01:21Z

And then there's the elves...

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:01, 18 May 2023
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	==And then there's the elves...==		==And then there's the elves...==
	[[File:GavThorpeEldar.png\|~~200px~~\|thumb\|right\|"And there will be as many bullet holes as the plot demands."]]		[[File:GavThorpeEldar.png\|400px\|thumb\|right\|"And there will be as many bullet holes as the plot demands."]]
	Among the best examples of his writing style's flaws on display is his infamous view on elves, specifically that "[[Derp\|there are as many elves as the plot demands]]." In one story they can write off the death of a million as part of a grand victory, but in the next the death of a hundred is a tragedy from which their race will never recover. Either way they will always be a dying race, and with no word on how the [[High Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|High Elves]] or [[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Dark Elves]] replenish their numbers for these huge wars with each other (plus the High Elves doing their "world police against Chaos" deal and the Dark Elves raiding around the world). This is to say nothing of his requirement that Elves retain the traits of the Eldar (souls eaten by Slaanesh, never worship Chaos) and the constant need to retcon anything that doesn't fit his very 40k-centric view of Warhammer lore.		Among the best examples of his writing style's flaws on display is his infamous view on elves, specifically that "[[Derp\|there are as many elves as the plot demands]]." In one story they can write off the death of a million as part of a grand victory, but in the next the death of a hundred is a tragedy from which their race will never recover. Either way they will always be a dying race, and with no word on how the [[High Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|High Elves]] or [[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Dark Elves]] replenish their numbers for these huge wars with each other (plus the High Elves doing their "world police against Chaos" deal and the Dark Elves raiding around the world). This is to say nothing of his requirement that Elves retain the traits of the Eldar (souls eaten by Slaanesh, never worship Chaos) and the constant need to retcon anything that doesn't fit his very 40k-centric view of Warhammer lore.

1d4chan>Fikilili: /* And then there's the elves... */

2023-05-18T14:01:09Z

And then there's the elves...

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:01, 18 May 2023
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	==And then there's the elves...==		==And then there's the elves...==
			[[File:GavThorpeEldar.png\|200px\|thumb\|right\|"And there will be as many bullet holes as the plot demands."]]
	Among the best examples of his writing style's flaws on display is his infamous view on elves, specifically that "[[Derp\|there are as many elves as the plot demands]]." In one story they can write off the death of a million as part of a grand victory, but in the next the death of a hundred is a tragedy from which their race will never recover. Either way they will always be a dying race, and with no word on how the [[High Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|High Elves]] or [[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Dark Elves]] replenish their numbers for these huge wars with each other (plus the High Elves doing their "world police against Chaos" deal and the Dark Elves raiding around the world). This is to say nothing of his requirement that Elves retain the traits of the Eldar (souls eaten by Slaanesh, never worship Chaos) and the constant need to retcon anything that doesn't fit his very 40k-centric view of Warhammer lore.		Among the best examples of his writing style's flaws on display is his infamous view on elves, specifically that "[[Derp\|there are as many elves as the plot demands]]." In one story they can write off the death of a million as part of a grand victory, but in the next the death of a hundred is a tragedy from which their race will never recover. Either way they will always be a dying race, and with no word on how the [[High Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|High Elves]] or [[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Dark Elves]] replenish their numbers for these huge wars with each other (plus the High Elves doing their "world police against Chaos" deal and the Dark Elves raiding around the world). This is to say nothing of his requirement that Elves retain the traits of the Eldar (souls eaten by Slaanesh, never worship Chaos) and the constant need to retcon anything that doesn't fit his very 40k-centric view of Warhammer lore.

1d4chan>Ow, My Sanity. at 07:29, 8 June 2022

2022-06-08T07:29:08Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:29, 8 June 2022
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	In particular, he's the guy behind the gloriously bad and cheesy ending to Storm of Chaos. He was quite terrible at the time, and he's always shown a very erratic understanding of even the most "historical" characters of Fantasy and 40k, as well as a sense of mystery, which others like [[Matt Ward]] also seem to lack. His [[Dark Angels]] work is also a point of contention, with some claiming it to be even worse than the [[Blood Angels]] series by the BAFTA nominated [[James Swallow]].		In particular, he's the guy behind the gloriously bad and cheesy ending to Storm of Chaos. He was quite terrible at the time, and he's always shown a very erratic understanding of even the most "historical" characters of Fantasy and 40k, as well as a sense of mystery, which others like [[Matt Ward]] also seem to lack. His [[Dark Angels]] work is also a point of contention, with some claiming it to be even worse than the [[Blood Angels]] series by the BAFTA nominated [[James Swallow]].

	Another thing that drew the ire from many a fa/tg/uy is his usage of neopronouns (ve,vis,ver etc.) in his recent works, seen as pandering to the [[SJW\|SJW]] crowd ~~and being Nornqueentroon's bitch~~. Though apparently he was just sticking to new guidelines laid out by BL - neopronouns are considered more sci-fi.		Another thing that drew the ire from many a fa/tg/uy is his usage of neopronouns (ve,vis,ver etc.) as opposed to the already gender-neutral “they” in his recent works, seen as pandering to the [[SJW\|SJW]] crowd. Though apparently he was just sticking to new guidelines laid out by BL - neopronouns are considered more sci-fi.

	While there are those who loathe his fluff writing, others praise his crunch work on the 6th edition Warhammer Fantasy army books. In particular, Hordes of Chaos (when all of Chaos, minus the [[Skaven]], was one faction) and [[Dwarfs]] are beloved to fans of those armies. On the OTHER hand, he was the Loremaster for Fantasy at the time, and he was far from light-handed with it, even at what was arguably the high point in his career, and a lot of the goofy bits from that era were his responsibility - such as the aforementioned Storm of Chaos [[derp\|ending]], where despite getting beaten like a red-headed stepchild on the tabletop, Archaon and his army manage to escape total slaughter by way of... running away and hoping no one notices, or his [[bullshit\|claim]] that [[grimderp\|every god is just a tiny piece of Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, or Nurgle]].		While there are those who loathe his fluff writing, others praise his crunch work on the 6th edition Warhammer Fantasy army books. In particular, Hordes of Chaos (when all of Chaos, minus the [[Skaven]], was one faction) and [[Dwarfs]] are beloved to fans of those armies. On the OTHER hand, he was the Loremaster for Fantasy at the time, and he was far from light-handed with it, even at what was arguably the high point in his career, and a lot of the goofy bits from that era were his responsibility - such as the aforementioned Storm of Chaos [[derp\|ending]], where despite getting beaten like a red-headed stepchild on the tabletop, Archaon and his army manage to escape total slaughter by way of... running away and hoping no one notices, or his [[bullshit\|claim]] that [[grimderp\|every god is just a tiny piece of Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, or Nurgle]].

1d4chan>Ow, My Sanity.: Undo revision 829591 by 70.16.132.253 (talk) I see no reasoning as to why this was removed.

2022-06-08T07:27:48Z

Undo revision 829591 by 70.16.132.253 (talk) I see no reasoning as to why this was removed.

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:27, 8 June 2022
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	In particular, he's the guy behind the gloriously bad and cheesy ending to Storm of Chaos. He was quite terrible at the time, and he's always shown a very erratic understanding of even the most "historical" characters of Fantasy and 40k, as well as a sense of mystery, which others like [[Matt Ward]] also seem to lack. His [[Dark Angels]] work is also a point of contention, with some claiming it to be even worse than the [[Blood Angels]] series by the BAFTA nominated [[James Swallow]].		In particular, he's the guy behind the gloriously bad and cheesy ending to Storm of Chaos. He was quite terrible at the time, and he's always shown a very erratic understanding of even the most "historical" characters of Fantasy and 40k, as well as a sense of mystery, which others like [[Matt Ward]] also seem to lack. His [[Dark Angels]] work is also a point of contention, with some claiming it to be even worse than the [[Blood Angels]] series by the BAFTA nominated [[James Swallow]].

			Another thing that drew the ire from many a fa/tg/uy is his usage of neopronouns (ve,vis,ver etc.) in his recent works, seen as pandering to the [[SJW\|SJW]] crowd and being Nornqueentroon's bitch. Though apparently he was just sticking to new guidelines laid out by BL - neopronouns are considered more sci-fi.

	While there are those who loathe his fluff writing, others praise his crunch work on the 6th edition Warhammer Fantasy army books. In particular, Hordes of Chaos (when all of Chaos, minus the [[Skaven]], was one faction) and [[Dwarfs]] are beloved to fans of those armies. On the OTHER hand, he was the Loremaster for Fantasy at the time, and he was far from light-handed with it, even at what was arguably the high point in his career, and a lot of the goofy bits from that era were his responsibility - such as the aforementioned Storm of Chaos [[derp\|ending]], where despite getting beaten like a red-headed stepchild on the tabletop, Archaon and his army manage to escape total slaughter by way of... running away and hoping no one notices, or his [[bullshit\|claim]] that [[grimderp\|every god is just a tiny piece of Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, or Nurgle]].		While there are those who loathe his fluff writing, others praise his crunch work on the 6th edition Warhammer Fantasy army books. In particular, Hordes of Chaos (when all of Chaos, minus the [[Skaven]], was one faction) and [[Dwarfs]] are beloved to fans of those armies. On the OTHER hand, he was the Loremaster for Fantasy at the time, and he was far from light-handed with it, even at what was arguably the high point in his career, and a lot of the goofy bits from that era were his responsibility - such as the aforementioned Storm of Chaos [[derp\|ending]], where despite getting beaten like a red-headed stepchild on the tabletop, Archaon and his army manage to escape total slaughter by way of... running away and hoping no one notices, or his [[bullshit\|claim]] that [[grimderp\|every god is just a tiny piece of Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, or Nurgle]].

70.16.132.253: /* Why the controversy? */

2022-06-08T05:36:29Z

Why the controversy?

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:36, 8 June 2022
Line 12:		Line 12:

	In particular, he's the guy behind the gloriously bad and cheesy ending to Storm of Chaos. He was quite terrible at the time, and he's always shown a very erratic understanding of even the most "historical" characters of Fantasy and 40k, as well as a sense of mystery, which others like [[Matt Ward]] also seem to lack. His [[Dark Angels]] work is also a point of contention, with some claiming it to be even worse than the [[Blood Angels]] series by the BAFTA nominated [[James Swallow]].		In particular, he's the guy behind the gloriously bad and cheesy ending to Storm of Chaos. He was quite terrible at the time, and he's always shown a very erratic understanding of even the most "historical" characters of Fantasy and 40k, as well as a sense of mystery, which others like [[Matt Ward]] also seem to lack. His [[Dark Angels]] work is also a point of contention, with some claiming it to be even worse than the [[Blood Angels]] series by the BAFTA nominated [[James Swallow]].

	Another thing that drew the ire from many a fa/tg/uy is his usage of neopronouns (ve,vis,ver etc.) in his recent works, seen as pandering to the [[SJW\|SJW]] crowd and being Nornqueentroon's bitch. Though apparently he was just sticking to new guidelines laid out by BL - neopronouns are considered more sci-fi.

	While there are those who loathe his fluff writing, others praise his crunch work on the 6th edition Warhammer Fantasy army books. In particular, Hordes of Chaos (when all of Chaos, minus the [[Skaven]], was one faction) and [[Dwarfs]] are beloved to fans of those armies. On the OTHER hand, he was the Loremaster for Fantasy at the time, and he was far from light-handed with it, even at what was arguably the high point in his career, and a lot of the goofy bits from that era were his responsibility - such as the aforementioned Storm of Chaos [[derp\|ending]], where despite getting beaten like a red-headed stepchild on the tabletop, Archaon and his army manage to escape total slaughter by way of... running away and hoping no one notices, or his [[bullshit\|claim]] that [[grimderp\|every god is just a tiny piece of Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, or Nurgle]].		While there are those who loathe his fluff writing, others praise his crunch work on the 6th edition Warhammer Fantasy army books. In particular, Hordes of Chaos (when all of Chaos, minus the [[Skaven]], was one faction) and [[Dwarfs]] are beloved to fans of those armies. On the OTHER hand, he was the Loremaster for Fantasy at the time, and he was far from light-handed with it, even at what was arguably the high point in his career, and a lot of the goofy bits from that era were his responsibility - such as the aforementioned Storm of Chaos [[derp\|ending]], where despite getting beaten like a red-headed stepchild on the tabletop, Archaon and his army manage to escape total slaughter by way of... running away and hoping no one notices, or his [[bullshit\|claim]] that [[grimderp\|every god is just a tiny piece of Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, or Nurgle]].

1d4chan>Ow, My Sanity.: /* And then there's the elves... */

2022-05-29T15:05:30Z

And then there's the elves...

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:05, 29 May 2022
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	==And then there's the elves...==		==And then there's the elves...==
	Among the best examples of his writing style's flaws on display is his infamous ~~views~~ on elves, specifically that "[[Derp\|there are as many elves as the plot demands]]." In one story they can write off the death of a million ~~during~~ a grand victory, but in the next the death of a hundred is a tragedy from which their race will never recover. Either way they will always be a dying race, and with no word on how the [[High Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|High Elves]] or [[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Dark Elves]] replenish their numbers for these huge wars with each other (plus the High Elves doing their "world police against Chaos" deal and the Dark Elves raiding around the world). This is to say nothing of his requirement that Elves retain the traits of the Eldar (souls eaten by Slaanesh, never worship Chaos) and the constant need to retcon anything that doesn't fit his very 40k-centric view of Warhammer lore. Most can't figure out whether he's in bed with the Elves or with Chaos, considering he varies between jacking them off at each other's expense depending on the book. In the end he monogamously settled on taking it up the ass from Chaos, and in turn made absolutely sure every faction took it up the ass from Archaon.		Among the best examples of his writing style's flaws on display is his infamous view on elves, specifically that "[[Derp\|there are as many elves as the plot demands]]." In one story they can write off the death of a million as part of a grand victory, but in the next the death of a hundred is a tragedy from which their race will never recover. Either way they will always be a dying race, and with no word on how the [[High Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|High Elves]] or [[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Dark Elves]] replenish their numbers for these huge wars with each other (plus the High Elves doing their "world police against Chaos" deal and the Dark Elves raiding around the world). This is to say nothing of his requirement that Elves retain the traits of the Eldar (souls eaten by Slaanesh, never worship Chaos) and the constant need to retcon anything that doesn't fit his very 40k-centric view of Warhammer lore.

	~~Thorpe's trademark is his whiny sentimental approach to writing:~~ it~~'s a formula meant to instill a sense of grand loss~~ in the ~~reader~~, ~~which only works~~ the ~~first two or three times before it gets irritating~~. ~~Worse still,~~ he ~~applies~~ the ~~same methodology to the Dark Angels and~~ [[~~Raven Guard]]. Thorpe was basically [[Edgy~~\|~~that morose emo kid who cuts himself~~ and ~~seemingly never grew out of~~ it]].		(For a long time, it was debatable whether he was in bed with the Elves or with Chaos, considering he varied between jacking them off at each other's expense depending on the book. In the end he monogamously settled on taking it up the ass from Chaos, [[The End Times\|and in turn made absolutely sure every faction took it up the ass from Archaon]].)

	~~Some of~~ his ~~more recent work is represented by the "Rise~~ of the ~~Ynnari" duo of books. It details the current events of the Ynnari~~, ~~as they try and find all~~ the ~~crone swords. Over the course of~~ two ~~books and 730 pages Thorpe had them achieve nothing~~. ~~They lost ships and lives~~, ~~but no additional Crone Sword or allies, as~~ the ~~clans of Saim-Hann now thoroughly dislike~~ the Death Cult, for wasting hundreds of Eldar lives for absoloutely nothing. The only redeeming qualities of this "series" are senile Wraithconstructs looking to settle centuries old, half forgotten scores and ~~Eldrad Ulthran being a dick~~. ~~Another criticism is his way of handling dialogue, where in an infamous passage it appears~~ that ~~the eldar do not have a word for 'stuff'... despite every other eldar book having them use the word 'stuff'. Including Path of the Eldar, ''which he wrote''. This may have simply been a rather hasty~~ and ~~poorly thought out way of having them sound less human, although wooden dialogue in general has been an issue for him he seems to have no will to grow~~ out of.		Thorpe's trademark is his whiny sentimental approach to writing: it's a formula meant to instil a sense of grand loss in the reader, which only works the first two or three times before it gets irritating. Worse still, he applies the same methodology to the Dark Angels and [[Raven Guard]]. Thorpe was basically [[Edgy\|that morose emo kid who cuts himself and seemingly never grew out of it]].

	An update, where it has been revealed that the [https://twitter.com/GavThorpeCreate/status/1334068305053835265 Rise of the Ynnari trilogy is now dead] and a third book will not be written. While many are quite upset by this, and even Gav Thorpe seems to be rather sad that he could not write a third book about a supposedly hyper-intelligent psychic species making bizarrely stupid choices that get hundreds of them killed, it seems a lot of this might lie in the fact that few will buy ~~aeldari~~ books by Gav Thorpe anymore. He has essentially become a poison pill to any book about the local space elves.		Some of his more recent work is represented by the "Rise of the Ynnari" duo of books. It details the current events of the [[Ynnari]], as they try and find all the croneswords. Over the course of two books and 730 pages Thorpe had them achieve nothing. They lost ships and lives, got no additional Crone Sword or allies, and succeeded only in making the clans of Saim-Hann now thoroughly dislike the Death Cult, as they wasted hundreds of Eldar lives for absolutely nothing. The only redeeming qualities of this "series" are senile Wraithconstructs looking to settle centuries old, half forgotten scores and Eldrad Ulthran being a dick. Another criticism is his way of handling dialogue, where in an infamous passage it appears that the eldar do not have a word for 'stuff'... [[derp\|despite every other eldar book having them use the word 'stuff'. Including Path of the Eldar, ''which he wrote'']]. This may have simply been a rather hasty and poorly thought out way of having them sound less human, although wooden dialogue in general has been an issue for him he seems to have no will to grow out of.

			An update, where it has been revealed that the [https://twitter.com/GavThorpeCreate/status/1334068305053835265 Rise of the Ynnari trilogy is now dead] and a third book will not be written. While many are quite upset by this, and even Gav Thorpe seems to be rather sad that he could not write a third book about a supposedly hyper-intelligent psychic species making bizarrely stupid choices that get hundreds of them killed, it seems a lot of this might lie in the fact that few will buy eldar books by Gav Thorpe anymore. He has essentially become a poison pill to any book about the local space elves.

	==Chaos in the 4th Edition Codex==		==Chaos in the 4th Edition Codex==

174.67.213.29: /* Where he stands as of 5th Edition Grey Knights Codex */ spelling

2022-05-14T02:35:18Z

Where he stands as of 5th Edition Grey Knights Codex: spelling

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:35, 14 May 2022
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	He's also one half of the [[Nick Kyme\|Kyme]]-Thorpe law which states 'all Dark Angel and Salamander books must be shit.' And then, of course, there's the whole thing with the End Times in Warhammer Fantasy and the transition to Age of Sigmar...		He's also one half of the [[Nick Kyme\|Kyme]]-Thorpe law which states 'all Dark Angel and Salamander books must be shit.' And then, of course, there's the whole thing with the End Times in Warhammer Fantasy and the transition to Age of Sigmar...

	All that said, some at least believe the man can write half-decently on occasion, [[C.S.Goto\|unlike a certain someone]]. He does an awesome job of portraying Ortan Cassius and the Ultramarines in "Catechism of Hate," and he wrote the origin story of [[Eliphas the Inheritor]]. His novel for Age of Sigmar, "Warbeast," is also pretty good too. His worst work bar none is probably writing about the Dark Angels chapter. He recently wrote The First Wall fr the Siege of Terra series. Whilst doing a decent job with the Fists and Warriors, he dropped the bar with his traitor Imperial Army Unit. Though he pulled through with a rather competent Custodian.		All that said, some at least believe the man can write half-decently on occasion, [[C.S.Goto\|unlike a certain someone]]. He does an awesome job of portraying Ortan Cassius and the Ultramarines in "Catechism of Hate," and he wrote the origin story of [[Eliphas the Inheritor]]. His novel for Age of Sigmar, "Warbeast," is also pretty good too. His worst work bar none is probably writing about the Dark Angels chapter. He recently wrote The First Wall for the Siege of Terra series. Whilst doing a decent job with the Fists and Warriors, he dropped the bar with his traitor Imperial Army Unit. Though he pulled through with a rather competent Custodian.

	[[Category:Games Workshop]]		[[Category:Games Workshop]]
	[[Category:Writers]]		[[Category:Writers]]
	[[category:Black Library]]		[[category:Black Library]]

174.67.213.29 at 02:32, 14 May 2022

2022-05-14T02:32:48Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:32, 14 May 2022
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	'''Gav Thorpe''' is a former member of [[Games Workshop\|GW's]] development department, who worked for the company in the early days. (Though he is not as batshit insane as [[Ian Watson]]). He currently works freelance for them as a writer for their [[Black Library]] and is a freelance games designer for other games companies in Nottingham. He has had a huge amount of influence on the development of all things Warhammer. So much so that there is a thing called the Gav Thorpe drinking game - if you encounter Gav's name in a Warhammer thing, take a [[Blam\|shot]].		'''Gav Thorpe''' is a former member of [[Games Workshop\|GW's]] development department, who worked for the company in the early days. (Though he is not as batshit insane as [[Ian Watson]]). He currently works freelance for them as a writer for their [[Black Library]] and is a freelance games designer for other games companies in Nottingham. He has had a huge amount of influence on the development of all things Warhammer. So much so that there is a thing called the Gav Thorpe drinking game - if you encounter Gav's name in a Warhammer thing, take a [[Blam\|shot]].

	He is the one largely responsible for the [[Skub\|grand mother bull moose of all mixed blessings]] that was the 4th edition Codex: [[Chaos Space Marines]], as well as the transition from the golden age of [[Warhammer Fantasy]] into the literal [[End Times]]. The former was a huge subject of [[RAGE]] and <nowiki>win</nowiki>Dread, compartmentalized in one work that has drawn both many supporters - and many ~~completely~~ justified haters. The other was just shit.		He is the one largely responsible for the [[Skub\|grand mother bull moose of all mixed blessings]] that was the 4th edition Codex: [[Chaos Space Marines]], as well as the transition from the golden age of [[Warhammer Fantasy]] into the literal [[End Times]]. The former was a huge subject of [[RAGE]] and <nowiki>win</nowiki>Dread, compartmentalized in one work that has drawn both many supporters - and many justified haters. The other was just shit.

	These days he mostly writes for the [[Black Library]], working on anything to do with the [[Eldar]] (most notably the Path of the Eldar trilogy). Gav also wrote the script for the Warhammer Fantasy game [[Warhammer: Mark of Chaos]].		These days he mostly writes for the [[Black Library]], working on anything to do with the [[Eldar]] (most notably the Path of the Eldar trilogy). Gav also wrote the script for the Warhammer Fantasy game [[Warhammer: Mark of Chaos]].