Grey Knights - Revision history

Alwaysright at 06:53, 1 August 2025

2025-08-01T06:53:39Z

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	Of course, we'll never know since the box will only be opened when "All is lost", although the 8th edition codex does mention that Kaldor Draigo has asked the Grand Masters to consider opening it for the first time in their recorded history (which is fucking dumb since [[Derp\|only Draigo knew the Terminus Decree exists]]. Then again, it's somewhat understandable, since Draigo's brain can be seriously frayed after all time he spent in the warp.). Given [[The End Times\|what happened]] the last time GW decided to [[Advancing the Storyline\|move things forward]], it may be best if we don't learn what's inside.		Of course, we'll never know since the box will only be opened when "All is lost", although the 8th edition codex does mention that Kaldor Draigo has asked the Grand Masters to consider opening it for the first time in their recorded history (which is fucking dumb since [[Derp\|only Draigo knew the Terminus Decree exists]]. Then again, it's somewhat understandable, since Draigo's brain can be seriously frayed after all time he spent in the warp.). Given [[The End Times\|what happened]] the last time GW decided to [[Advancing the Storyline\|move things forward]], it may be best if we don't learn what's inside.


			And now we know. The Decree is an order from the Emperor, that if he should ever leave the Golden Throne for any reason, the Knights are to do whatever is needed to put him back. Including fight other Imperial factions, even the Custodes. And the Emperor, who is completely aware of the capabilities of the Custodes, created the Knights with the expectation for them to WIN that fight.

	==5th Edition, /tg/, and how [[Matt Ward]] Bungled Shit Up==		==5th Edition, /tg/, and how [[Matt Ward]] Bungled Shit Up==

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2023-06-21T14:33:18Z

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2A02:1810:4E2C:A900:E46D:77BB:EEC1:5E6F at 20:20, 3 June 2023

2023-06-03T20:20:21Z

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2A02:1808:81:DB29:31:227:4EA:F982 at 16:33, 27 May 2023

2023-05-27T16:33:04Z

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1d4chan>Piroko: /* Pure of Purpose */

2023-05-14T20:56:27Z

Pure of Purpose

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:56, 14 May 2023
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	Even with such a large pool to draw from, the Chapter's recruitment trials are so notoriously difficult and deadly that it has a washout rate that even [[Fabius Bile]] would appreciate. According to some of the Codices, it's common for only about one in a ''thousand'' to pass the '''first trial''', and it only gets worse from there. Needless to say the weak of will, weak of constitution, or simply plain unlucky, get weeded out real early, but as a result only the best of the best gets picked. All told, maybe about one in a million survives to become worthy to receive the Emperor's Gift, and begin their training to become a lowly battle-brother. And this is all ''before'' they're introduced to the aforementioned 666 Rituals of Detestation. Harsh. These numbers sound like absolute [[Bullshit\|bullshit]], but remember that the Imperium contains one ''million'' worlds. It is impossible to pin down the number of people in the Imperium, but numbers in the quadrillions are on the conservative end with quintillions not being out of the realm of possibility. Gee Dubs is probably [[fail\|way off]] on the numbers, but perhaps only by 1:1,000 instead of 1:1,000,000. Even then that would make for possibly trillions of viable grey knight candidates, an army large enough to punch the great rift in the face until it dies. However, since Grey Knight aspirants are Beta or Alpha psykers or something close to them, ''it is absolutely bullshit''. Their numbers would be utterly unsustainable, even with normal psykers strong enough to be worth a damn. Not to mention the incredible waste of an extremely valuable asset that worlds risk being shot to pieces for not giving up. It is probably best to just utterly ignore the stupidity and assume they are careful not to waste this scarce resource. ''Unless'' the failures don't usually die and are simply mind-wiped and sent to some other organizations like the Librarius of other Chapters, Astropaths, Emperor food, etc. Except we know they aren't because the training fields of Titan are carpeted with the bones of failed aspirants. Plus most of the trials are specifically fatal by design if you fail them. Either you survive the trials and become a Grey Knight, or you die along the way. All in all it's a rather stupid attempt to make the Grey Knights seem like [[Mary Sue\|''the bestest '''evar''''']] when they really didn't have to. That's the problem with trying to make [[Primaris Space Marines\|super-er supersoldiers]] though; eventually you reach a point where you can't really go higher without it getting silly.		Even with such a large pool to draw from, the Chapter's recruitment trials are so notoriously difficult and deadly that it has a washout rate that even [[Fabius Bile]] would appreciate. According to some of the Codices, it's common for only about one in a ''thousand'' to pass the '''first trial''', and it only gets worse from there. Needless to say the weak of will, weak of constitution, or simply plain unlucky, get weeded out real early, but as a result only the best of the best gets picked. All told, maybe about one in a million survives to become worthy to receive the Emperor's Gift, and begin their training to become a lowly battle-brother. And this is all ''before'' they're introduced to the aforementioned 666 Rituals of Detestation. Harsh. These numbers sound like absolute [[Bullshit\|bullshit]], but remember that the Imperium contains one ''million'' worlds. It is impossible to pin down the number of people in the Imperium, but numbers in the quadrillions are on the conservative end with quintillions not being out of the realm of possibility. Gee Dubs is probably [[fail\|way off]] on the numbers, but perhaps only by 1:1,000 instead of 1:1,000,000. Even then that would make for possibly trillions of viable grey knight candidates, an army large enough to punch the great rift in the face until it dies. However, since Grey Knight aspirants are Beta or Alpha psykers or something close to them, ''it is absolutely bullshit''. Their numbers would be utterly unsustainable, even with normal psykers strong enough to be worth a damn. Not to mention the incredible waste of an extremely valuable asset that worlds risk being shot to pieces for not giving up. It is probably best to just utterly ignore the stupidity and assume they are careful not to waste this scarce resource. ''Unless'' the failures don't usually die and are simply mind-wiped and sent to some other organizations like the Librarius of other Chapters, Astropaths, Emperor food, etc. Except we know they aren't because the training fields of Titan are carpeted with the bones of failed aspirants. Plus most of the trials are specifically fatal by design if you fail them. Either you survive the trials and become a Grey Knight, or you die along the way. All in all it's a rather stupid attempt to make the Grey Knights seem like [[Mary Sue\|''the bestest '''evar''''']] when they really didn't have to. That's the problem with trying to make [[Primaris Space Marines\|super-er supersoldiers]] though; eventually you reach a point where you can't really go higher without it getting silly.

	What we do know is that the Inquisition helps with recruitment, identifying psykers who show some ~~enough~~ potential and sending them on with a recommendation (as was the case for Hyperion). So the process isn't necessarily as wasteful as just sifting through all the psykers the black ships bring in for candidates young enough to be worth trying.		What we do know is that the Inquisition helps with recruitment, identifying psykers who show some potential and sending them on with a recommendation (as was the case for Hyperion). So the process isn't necessarily as wasteful as just sifting through all the psykers the black ships bring in for candidates young enough to be worth trying.

	Once a Grey Knight initiate passes his arduous trial of [[anal circumference]], he is given the 'standard-issue' [[Liber Daemonicum]] as a commendation prize. It is a small, dinky-little booklet that contains all the guidance for the Grey Knight initiate to understand his place in things. Think of it as the Grey Knights' equivalent of a [[Space Marine]]'s [[Codex Astartes]] or the [[Imperial Guard]]'s [[Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer]], just orders of magnitude more useful than the latter.		Once a Grey Knight initiate passes his arduous trial of [[anal circumference]], he is given the 'standard-issue' [[Liber Daemonicum]] as a commendation prize. It is a small, dinky-little booklet that contains all the guidance for the Grey Knight initiate to understand his place in things. Think of it as the Grey Knights' equivalent of a [[Space Marine]]'s [[Codex Astartes]] or the [[Imperial Guard]]'s [[Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer]], just orders of magnitude more useful than the latter.

1d4chan>Piroko: /* Pure of Purpose */

2023-05-14T20:56:10Z

Pure of Purpose

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:56, 14 May 2023
Line 52:		Line 52:

	Even with such a large pool to draw from, the Chapter's recruitment trials are so notoriously difficult and deadly that it has a washout rate that even [[Fabius Bile]] would appreciate. According to some of the Codices, it's common for only about one in a ''thousand'' to pass the '''first trial''', and it only gets worse from there. Needless to say the weak of will, weak of constitution, or simply plain unlucky, get weeded out real early, but as a result only the best of the best gets picked. All told, maybe about one in a million survives to become worthy to receive the Emperor's Gift, and begin their training to become a lowly battle-brother. And this is all ''before'' they're introduced to the aforementioned 666 Rituals of Detestation. Harsh. These numbers sound like absolute [[Bullshit\|bullshit]], but remember that the Imperium contains one ''million'' worlds. It is impossible to pin down the number of people in the Imperium, but numbers in the quadrillions are on the conservative end with quintillions not being out of the realm of possibility. Gee Dubs is probably [[fail\|way off]] on the numbers, but perhaps only by 1:1,000 instead of 1:1,000,000. Even then that would make for possibly trillions of viable grey knight candidates, an army large enough to punch the great rift in the face until it dies. However, since Grey Knight aspirants are Beta or Alpha psykers or something close to them, ''it is absolutely bullshit''. Their numbers would be utterly unsustainable, even with normal psykers strong enough to be worth a damn. Not to mention the incredible waste of an extremely valuable asset that worlds risk being shot to pieces for not giving up. It is probably best to just utterly ignore the stupidity and assume they are careful not to waste this scarce resource. ''Unless'' the failures don't usually die and are simply mind-wiped and sent to some other organizations like the Librarius of other Chapters, Astropaths, Emperor food, etc. Except we know they aren't because the training fields of Titan are carpeted with the bones of failed aspirants. Plus most of the trials are specifically fatal by design if you fail them. Either you survive the trials and become a Grey Knight, or you die along the way. All in all it's a rather stupid attempt to make the Grey Knights seem like [[Mary Sue\|''the bestest '''evar''''']] when they really didn't have to. That's the problem with trying to make [[Primaris Space Marines\|super-er supersoldiers]] though; eventually you reach a point where you can't really go higher without it getting silly.		Even with such a large pool to draw from, the Chapter's recruitment trials are so notoriously difficult and deadly that it has a washout rate that even [[Fabius Bile]] would appreciate. According to some of the Codices, it's common for only about one in a ''thousand'' to pass the '''first trial''', and it only gets worse from there. Needless to say the weak of will, weak of constitution, or simply plain unlucky, get weeded out real early, but as a result only the best of the best gets picked. All told, maybe about one in a million survives to become worthy to receive the Emperor's Gift, and begin their training to become a lowly battle-brother. And this is all ''before'' they're introduced to the aforementioned 666 Rituals of Detestation. Harsh. These numbers sound like absolute [[Bullshit\|bullshit]], but remember that the Imperium contains one ''million'' worlds. It is impossible to pin down the number of people in the Imperium, but numbers in the quadrillions are on the conservative end with quintillions not being out of the realm of possibility. Gee Dubs is probably [[fail\|way off]] on the numbers, but perhaps only by 1:1,000 instead of 1:1,000,000. Even then that would make for possibly trillions of viable grey knight candidates, an army large enough to punch the great rift in the face until it dies. However, since Grey Knight aspirants are Beta or Alpha psykers or something close to them, ''it is absolutely bullshit''. Their numbers would be utterly unsustainable, even with normal psykers strong enough to be worth a damn. Not to mention the incredible waste of an extremely valuable asset that worlds risk being shot to pieces for not giving up. It is probably best to just utterly ignore the stupidity and assume they are careful not to waste this scarce resource. ''Unless'' the failures don't usually die and are simply mind-wiped and sent to some other organizations like the Librarius of other Chapters, Astropaths, Emperor food, etc. Except we know they aren't because the training fields of Titan are carpeted with the bones of failed aspirants. Plus most of the trials are specifically fatal by design if you fail them. Either you survive the trials and become a Grey Knight, or you die along the way. All in all it's a rather stupid attempt to make the Grey Knights seem like [[Mary Sue\|''the bestest '''evar''''']] when they really didn't have to. That's the problem with trying to make [[Primaris Space Marines\|super-er supersoldiers]] though; eventually you reach a point where you can't really go higher without it getting silly.

			What we do know is that the Inquisition helps with recruitment, identifying psykers who show some enough potential and sending them on with a recommendation (as was the case for Hyperion). So the process isn't necessarily as wasteful as just sifting through all the psykers the black ships bring in for candidates young enough to be worth trying.

	Once a Grey Knight initiate passes his arduous trial of [[anal circumference]], he is given the 'standard-issue' [[Liber Daemonicum]] as a commendation prize. It is a small, dinky-little booklet that contains all the guidance for the Grey Knight initiate to understand his place in things. Think of it as the Grey Knights' equivalent of a [[Space Marine]]'s [[Codex Astartes]] or the [[Imperial Guard]]'s [[Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer]], just orders of magnitude more useful than the latter.		Once a Grey Knight initiate passes his arduous trial of [[anal circumference]], he is given the 'standard-issue' [[Liber Daemonicum]] as a commendation prize. It is a small, dinky-little booklet that contains all the guidance for the Grey Knight initiate to understand his place in things. Think of it as the Grey Knights' equivalent of a [[Space Marine]]'s [[Codex Astartes]] or the [[Imperial Guard]]'s [[Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer]], just orders of magnitude more useful than the latter.

1d4chan>MiaoKobayashisDragonMaid: /* Organization */

2023-02-26T19:13:52Z

Organization

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:13, 26 February 2023
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	*'''Justicar''': Similar in function to a Sergeant, a Justicar leads squads in battle, answering immediately to a Brother-Captain. The major difference between a Sergeant and a Justicar is that a Justicar may wear personal heraldry. They also often serve as a focus for the squad's psychic powers.		*'''Justicar''': Similar in function to a Sergeant, a Justicar leads squads in battle, answering immediately to a Brother-Captain. The major difference between a Sergeant and a Justicar is that a Justicar may wear personal heraldry. They also often serve as a focus for the squad's psychic powers.

	*'''Purifier''': Purifiers are battle-brothers who are especially pure of spirit, possessing high psychic ability that can allow them to wreath themselves in holy flame that will burn anything Chaos tainted while leaving the Purifier untouched. So basically yo dawg we heard you like warriors of purity so we put extra purity in your extra purity so you can be extra pure while you're extra pure! Cool thing about them is that they aren't chosen based on combat abilities or heroics, but their psychic fortitude and purity of soul (how this is actually assessed remains a closely guarded secret) - For this very reason, there's only about 40 Purifiers at once anywhere in the galaxy. They hold some pretty bad secrets on Titan, stuff that they'll ''beat up'' other Knights if they ever try and take a hold of.		*'''Purifier''': Purifiers are battle-brothers who are <s>virgins</s> especially pure of spirit, possessing high psychic ability that can allow them to wreath themselves in holy flame that will burn anything Chaos tainted while leaving the Purifier untouched. So basically yo dawg we heard you like warriors of purity so we put extra purity in your extra purity so you can be extra pure while you're extra pure! Cool thing about them is that they aren't chosen based on combat abilities or heroics, but their psychic fortitude and purity of soul (how this is actually assessed remains a closely guarded secret, especially considering all the trials an aspirant goes through just to become a Grey Knight; what more can they do, spend a night with a Keeper of Secrets without busting?) - For this very reason, there's only about 40 Purifiers at once anywhere in the galaxy. They hold some pretty bad secrets on Titan, stuff that they'll ''beat up'' other Knights if they ever try and take a hold of.

	*'''Paladin''': Paladins are a special group like the Purifiers, but whereas the Purifiers focus on spiritual purity, the Paladins are much more martial, serving as bodyguards to the Grand Masters. Membership is acquired when an Aspirant completes eight separate quests establishing his character and nobility. These things push them to the limit of what is super-humanly possible, both in their psyké and their physical power. Despite this there's a lot of Paladins compared to Purifiers, with about a hundred of them existing at a time. Note that virtually every Paladin is on the books to be promoted to Brother-Captain, though Justicars can also be promoted if they earn it through some appropriately heroic feat and prove they can lead well enough.		*'''Paladin''': Paladins are a special group like the Purifiers, but whereas the Purifiers focus on spiritual purity, the Paladins are much more martial, serving as bodyguards to the Grand Masters. Membership is acquired when an Aspirant completes eight separate quests establishing his character and nobility. These things push them to the limit of what is super-humanly possible, both in their psyké and their physical power. Despite this there's a lot of Paladins compared to Purifiers, with about a hundred of them existing at a time. Note that virtually every Paladin is on the books to be promoted to Brother-Captain, though Justicars can also be promoted if they earn it through some appropriately heroic feat and prove they can lead well enough.

	*'''Prognosticar''': Think, Space Marine [[Farseer\|Farseers]]. These guys serve as the mission control for the chapter and inform the Grand Masters about serious shit that might be going down, and they're often Knights that've been injured badly enough such that they can't serve on the frontlines. Groups of them sit around all day in psychic echo chambers to divine the return of powerful daemons before they actually show up, allowing the Grey Knights to mobilize in time to put a stop to the enemy's plans. This helps to minimize the damage wrought, sometimes even halting the summoning rituals before their completion. They are also probably the most powerful psykers in the whole imperium bar the emperor, other grey knights describe them as blinding when they are suppressing their power.		*'''Prognosticar''': Think, Space Marine [[Farseer\|Farseers]]. These guys serve as the mission control for the chapter and inform the Grand Masters about serious shit that might be going down, and they're often Knights that've been injured badly enough such that they can't serve on the frontlines. Groups of them sit around all day in psychic echo chambers to divine the return of powerful daemons before they actually show up, allowing the Grey Knights to mobilize in time to put a stop to the enemy's plans. This helps to minimize the damage wrought, sometimes even halting the summoning rituals before their completion. They are also probably the most powerful psykers in the whole imperium bar the emperor, other grey knights describe them as blinding when they are suppressing their power.
			**in 9th ed, the predictions of the Prognosticars are represented as points upgrades, either in the forms of visions or equipping Characters with special tools to meet an unyet-manifested threat. For example, one of these gifts is the psychic [[Cyberpunk\|<s>braindance</s>]] [[Grimdark\|engram of a Psyker sacrificed to the Golden Throne, using their death throes as a battery for a situational 3++ invuln]]. Huh, using [[Dark Eldar\|suffering]] as an energy source, best not to [[Slaanesh\|think about it too much]].

	===The Grey Knight's Super Secret Box===		===The Grey Knight's Super Secret Box===

1d4chan>MiaoKobayashisDragonMaid: /* Organization */

2023-02-26T18:59:41Z

Organization

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:59, 26 February 2023
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	*'''Brother-Captain''': Just like each Brotherhood has a Grand Master to lead it, so too is there a corresponding Brother-Captain to further delegate orders through the chain of command. Similar to the old Legion Astartes rank where Captains could also be squad commanders, except for the fact that they are ''always'' referred to as Brother-Captain. Grey Knight Brother-Captains ''can'' command larger groups the way a captain in a typical Codex Chapter would (this happened at the First Battle of Armageddon, for example), but the Knights only assemble in such numbers in response to the direst of threats, so most of the time they're left to run just a squad, albeit an elite one. In the modern version, the Captains are all lieutenants of the Grand-Masters, which does not makes much sense; in the Daemon Hunters codex, Brother-Captan was a title bestowed upon all Terminator squad leaders, since, at the time, the Grey-Knights were not at all Codex compliant, and had numbers allowing them to be much more logically spread over the Imperium albeit in small groups (this also served to explain the numbers of miniatures used on the tabletop wargame).		*'''Brother-Captain''': Just like each Brotherhood has a Grand Master to lead it, so too is there a corresponding Brother-Captain to further delegate orders through the chain of command. Similar to the old Legion Astartes rank where Captains could also be squad commanders, except for the fact that they are ''always'' referred to as Brother-Captain. Grey Knight Brother-Captains ''can'' command larger groups the way a captain in a typical Codex Chapter would (this happened at the First Battle of Armageddon, for example), but the Knights only assemble in such numbers in response to the direst of threats, so most of the time they're left to run just a squad, albeit an elite one. In the modern version, the Captains are all lieutenants of the Grand-Masters, which does not makes much sense; in the Daemon Hunters codex, Brother-Captan was a title bestowed upon all Terminator squad leaders, since, at the time, the Grey-Knights were not at all Codex compliant, and had numbers allowing them to be much more logically spread over the Imperium albeit in small groups (this also served to explain the numbers of miniatures used on the tabletop wargame).

	*'''Brotherhood Champion''': Similar to a Company Champion, the Brotherhood Champion has renounced all forms of combat ~~save for~~ the ~~sword~~. Given that all Grey Knights are psykers wielding Nemesis-force weapons, this means that a Brotherhood Champion will be charging a daemon with a flaming sword, evening the odds a little. Admittedly one of the cooler (in fluff) units, though on tabletop they're little more than one-trick ponies.		*'''Brotherhood Champion''': Similar to a Company Champion, the Brotherhood Champion has renounced all forms of combat [[Katanas are Underpowered in d20\|in order to study the blade]]. Given that all Grey Knights are psykers wielding Nemesis-force weapons, this means that a Brotherhood Champion will be charging a daemon with a flaming sword, evening the odds a little. Admittedly one of the cooler (in fluff) units, though on tabletop they're little more than one-trick ponies.

	*'''Justicar''': Similar in function to a Sergeant, a Justicar leads squads in battle, answering immediately to a Brother-Captain. The major difference between a Sergeant and a Justicar is that a Justicar may wear personal heraldry. They also often serve as a focus for the squad's psychic powers.		*'''Justicar''': Similar in function to a Sergeant, a Justicar leads squads in battle, answering immediately to a Brother-Captain. The major difference between a Sergeant and a Justicar is that a Justicar may wear personal heraldry. They also often serve as a focus for the squad's psychic powers.

1d4chan>An0nym0us at 05:09, 19 February 2023

2023-02-19T05:09:19Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:09, 19 February 2023
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	Obviously Magnus turned it down despite [[Vulkan]]'s pleas to accept it and officially declared his loyalty to Chaos on the spot. But, according to Emps, the new legion was already in the process of being created anyway. And it's not like founding a chapter [[Carcharodons\|from]] [[Blood Ravens\|traitor]] [[Shadow Wolves\|legion]] [[Minotaurs\|stock is]] [[Silver Skulls\|unheard of]], [[Red Scorpions\|either]]. This could also lend itself to better explaining the Grey Knights' resistance to chaotic corruption. The Rubric which would turn the vast majority of the Thousand Sons into dusty suits of armor also had an effect on the surviving members. Any psyker strong enough amongst the legion had their psychic powers supercharged and were untouched by any (unwilling) mutations. With the Grey Knights recruiting exclusively from already powerful psykers, and unlikely to willingly give into the gifts of chaos, perhaps the spell that became the ruin of the first sons of Magnus was also a bulwark protecting his second sons.		Obviously Magnus turned it down despite [[Vulkan]]'s pleas to accept it and officially declared his loyalty to Chaos on the spot. But, according to Emps, the new legion was already in the process of being created anyway. And it's not like founding a chapter [[Carcharodons\|from]] [[Blood Ravens\|traitor]] [[Shadow Wolves\|legion]] [[Minotaurs\|stock is]] [[Silver Skulls\|unheard of]], [[Red Scorpions\|either]]. This could also lend itself to better explaining the Grey Knights' resistance to chaotic corruption. The Rubric which would turn the vast majority of the Thousand Sons into dusty suits of armor also had an effect on the surviving members. Any psyker strong enough amongst the legion had their psychic powers supercharged and were untouched by any (unwilling) mutations. With the Grey Knights recruiting exclusively from already powerful psykers, and unlikely to willingly give into the gifts of chaos, perhaps the spell that became the ruin of the first sons of Magnus was also a bulwark protecting his second sons.

			However, that particular possibility has been thrown into significant doubt due to the fact that, most recently, Vulkan revealed to Magnus that his final interaction with the Emperor hadn't gone down quite as he remembered. Instead of rejecting command of the Grey Knights, Magnus's last pure soul shard had apparently burst into the throne room, begged the Emperor to save him, and been rejected. There was never an offer of a new Legion or a place at the Emperor's side. Tzeentch, and Magnus's own psyche, had clouded his perceptions to the point that what he remembered seeing and doing was completely different to what actually happened. While we still don't know with 100% certainty which version of events is correct, the final version makes far more sense. The idea that the Emperor would have given Magnus control of the Grey Knights after everything Magnus had done, and knowing Magnus's character, makes absolutely no sense. Funnily enough, Vulkan actually made a point of that when explaining the situation to Magnus.

	==Organization==		==Organization==