Imperium Secundus - Revision history

45.84.107.101: /* of Guilliman */

2026-01-13T18:30:17Z

of Guilliman

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:30, 13 January 2026
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	After unveiling his [[Codex Astartes]] which affirmed that no person, Primarch or otherwise, should be able to wield such power of the Legions, Guilliman '''DID''' eventually achieve lordship over the Imperium, becoming '''Lord Commander of the Imperium''' (which was essentially Warmaster in all but name) and particularly at odds with the stated intention of restricting forces by achieving oversight of ALL armed forces. The position was used up until M32 and subsequent holders were even referred to by the title of ''"Lord Guilliman"''		After unveiling his [[Codex Astartes]] which affirmed that no person, Primarch or otherwise, should be able to wield such power of the Legions, Guilliman '''DID''' eventually achieve lordship over the Imperium, becoming '''Lord Commander of the Imperium''' (which was essentially Warmaster in all but name) and particularly at odds with the stated intention of restricting forces by achieving oversight of ALL armed forces. The position was used up until M32 and subsequent holders were even referred to by the title of ''"Lord Guilliman"''

	Following Guilliman's resurrection in the last year of the 41st Millennium, his first instinct is to secure his 500 worlds and re-establish the stability of Ultramar. Afterward, he leaves his Five-Hundred Worlds to the care of [[Marneus Calgar]] and sets course for Terra. Shortly after his revival, Guilliman ordered the Ultramarines' Library of Ptolemy to be sealed off with entry forbidden on pain of death. Guilliman claimed the gesture was symbolic of how there would be no place for learning in the dark days they lived in, but what he didn't say was that he wanted to make sure nobody could find evidence of the Imperium Secundus, which he is still deeply ashamed of ~~despite being the only person in a position to know it existed in the first place~~. It may be possible that he blames himself for the Emperor's mortal wounding as a result of his flawed assumptions. Although since the library’s contents have probably been copied countless times over the millennia and the Ruinstorm is an excuse the Imperium would easily accept, either he’s trying a futile and pointless cover-up or there is something much darker he’s trying to hide (or he set up a sucker bait for anyone trying to dig up dirt to be dissuaded or get themselves killed).		Following Guilliman's resurrection in the last year of the 41st Millennium, his first instinct is to secure his 500 worlds and re-establish the stability of Ultramar. Afterward, he leaves his Five-Hundred Worlds to the care of [[Marneus Calgar]] and sets course for Terra. Shortly after his revival, Guilliman ordered the Ultramarines' Library of Ptolemy to be sealed off with entry forbidden on pain of death. Guilliman claimed the gesture was symbolic of how there would be no place for learning in the dark days they lived in, but what he didn't say was that he wanted to make sure nobody could find evidence of the Imperium Secundus, which he is still deeply ashamed of. It may be possible that he blames himself for the Emperor's mortal wounding.

	When he reached Terra, he resumed the position of '''Lord Commander of the Imperium''' following a visit to the Emperor and forcibly replaced High Lords of Terra with candidates of his own choosing, claiming a direct mandate from the Emperor that no-one besides the Custodes can verify. Politically expedient and effective? Yes, this behaviour retains all the hallmarks of a dictator. On the other hand, Luna had been attacked by the forces of [[Magnus the Red]] and shortly afterwards ''Terra itself'' was invaded by the daemonic forces of [[Khorne]], yet the High Lords were still desperately plotting behind closed doors to keep control of the Imperium ''away'' from Roboute Guilliman because of their fear of losing control, considering him and the other Primarchs to have been "fratricidal lunatics" and utterly failing to realise how the Imperium was going to shit around them. Guilliman has taken control and has indeed tried to push reforms, but opposition from the Inquisition and other influential organizations has made such changes slow in coming. Eventually he’ll lose his patience and they’ll be...”reminded” that he’s a motherfucking Primarch.		When he reached Terra, he resumed the position of '''Lord Commander of the Imperium''' following a visit to the Emperor and forcibly replaced High Lords of Terra with candidates of his own choosing, claiming a direct mandate from the Emperor that no-one besides the Custodes can verify. Politically expedient and effective? Yes, this behaviour retains all the hallmarks of a dictator. On the other hand, Luna had been attacked by the forces of [[Magnus the Red]] and shortly afterwards ''Terra itself'' was invaded by the daemonic forces of [[Khorne]], yet the High Lords were still desperately plotting behind closed doors to keep control of the Imperium ''away'' from Roboute Guilliman because of their fear of losing control, considering him and the other Primarchs to have been "fratricidal lunatics" and utterly failing to realise how the Imperium was going to shit around them. Guilliman has taken control and has indeed tried to push reforms, but opposition from the Inquisition and other influential organizations has made such changes slow in coming. Eventually he’ll lose his patience and they’ll be...”reminded” that he’s a motherfucking Primarch.

45.84.107.101: /* of Guilliman */

2026-01-13T18:24:13Z

of Guilliman

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:24, 13 January 2026
Line 98:		Line 98:
	After unveiling his [[Codex Astartes]] which affirmed that no person, Primarch or otherwise, should be able to wield such power of the Legions, Guilliman '''DID''' eventually achieve lordship over the Imperium, becoming '''Lord Commander of the Imperium''' (which was essentially Warmaster in all but name) and particularly at odds with the stated intention of restricting forces by achieving oversight of ALL armed forces. The position was used up until M32 and subsequent holders were even referred to by the title of ''"Lord Guilliman"''		After unveiling his [[Codex Astartes]] which affirmed that no person, Primarch or otherwise, should be able to wield such power of the Legions, Guilliman '''DID''' eventually achieve lordship over the Imperium, becoming '''Lord Commander of the Imperium''' (which was essentially Warmaster in all but name) and particularly at odds with the stated intention of restricting forces by achieving oversight of ALL armed forces. The position was used up until M32 and subsequent holders were even referred to by the title of ''"Lord Guilliman"''

	Following Guilliman's resurrection in the last year of the 41st Millennium, his first instinct is to secure his 500 worlds and re-establish the stability of Ultramar ~~(and later on he would choose to begin expanding it further) without actually considering the Imperium at large, once again retreading the familiar ground of Imperium Secundus~~. ~~But in a surprisingly subtle display of character growth, following the infliction of a Nurgle plague that only he can cure by his mere proximity to the afflicted [[Mary Sue\|(Mary Sue)]].~~		Following Guilliman's resurrection in the last year of the 41st Millennium, his first instinct is to secure his 500 worlds and re-establish the stability of Ultramar. Afterward, he leaves his Five-Hundred Worlds to the care of [[Marneus Calgar]] and sets course for Terra. Shortly after his revival, Guilliman ordered the Ultramarines' Library of Ptolemy to be sealed off with entry forbidden on pain of death. Guilliman claimed the gesture was symbolic of how there would be no place for learning in the dark days they lived in, but what he didn't say was that he wanted to make sure nobody could find evidence of the Imperium Secundus, which he is still deeply ashamed of despite being the only person in a position to know it existed in the first place. It may be possible that he blames himself for the Emperor's mortal wounding as a result of his flawed assumptions. Although since the library’s contents have probably been copied countless times over the millennia and the Ruinstorm is an excuse the Imperium would easily accept, either he’s trying a futile and pointless cover-up or there is something much darker he’s trying to hide (or he set up a sucker bait for anyone trying to dig up dirt to be dissuaded or get themselves killed).

	Afterward, he leaves his Five-Hundred Worlds to the care of [[Marneus Calgar]] and sets course for Terra. Shortly after his revival, Guilliman ordered the Ultramarines' Library of Ptolemy to be sealed off with entry forbidden on pain of death. Guilliman claimed the gesture was symbolic of how there would be no place for learning in the dark days they lived in, but what he didn't say was that he wanted to make sure nobody could find evidence of the Imperium Secundus, which he is still deeply ashamed of despite being the only person in a position to know it existed in the first place. It may be possible that he blames himself for the Emperor's mortal wounding as a result of his flawed assumptions. Although since the library’s contents have probably been copied countless times over the millennia and the Ruinstorm is an excuse the Imperium would easily accept, either he’s trying a futile and pointless cover-up or there is something much darker he’s trying to hide (or he set up a sucker bait for anyone trying to dig up dirt to be dissuaded or get themselves killed).

	When he reached Terra, he resumed the position of '''Lord Commander of the Imperium''' following a visit to the Emperor and forcibly replaced High Lords of Terra with candidates of his own choosing, claiming a direct mandate from the Emperor that no-one besides the Custodes can verify. Politically expedient and effective? Yes, this behaviour retains all the hallmarks of a dictator. On the other hand, Luna had been attacked by the forces of [[Magnus the Red]] and shortly afterwards ''Terra itself'' was invaded by the daemonic forces of [[Khorne]], yet the High Lords were still desperately plotting behind closed doors to keep control of the Imperium ''away'' from Roboute Guilliman because of their fear of losing control, considering him and the other Primarchs to have been "fratricidal lunatics" and utterly failing to realise how the Imperium was going to shit around them. Guilliman has taken control and has indeed tried to push reforms, but opposition from the Inquisition and other influential organizations has made such changes slow in coming. Eventually he’ll lose his patience and they’ll be...”reminded” that he’s a motherfucking Primarch.		When he reached Terra, he resumed the position of '''Lord Commander of the Imperium''' following a visit to the Emperor and forcibly replaced High Lords of Terra with candidates of his own choosing, claiming a direct mandate from the Emperor that no-one besides the Custodes can verify. Politically expedient and effective? Yes, this behaviour retains all the hallmarks of a dictator. On the other hand, Luna had been attacked by the forces of [[Magnus the Red]] and shortly afterwards ''Terra itself'' was invaded by the daemonic forces of [[Khorne]], yet the High Lords were still desperately plotting behind closed doors to keep control of the Imperium ''away'' from Roboute Guilliman because of their fear of losing control, considering him and the other Primarchs to have been "fratricidal lunatics" and utterly failing to realise how the Imperium was going to shit around them. Guilliman has taken control and has indeed tried to push reforms, but opposition from the Inquisition and other influential organizations has made such changes slow in coming. Eventually he’ll lose his patience and they’ll be...”reminded” that he’s a motherfucking Primarch.

45.94.31.68: /* of Guilliman */

2026-01-13T18:13:45Z

of Guilliman

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:13, 13 January 2026
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	There remains the interpretation that Guilliman's motives were not entirely sincere and that the Emperor, Malcador and the Lion were right: that Guilliman was only interested in building his OWN Empire, irrespective of the Emperor's involvement in it, which is where the problem lies. This is also supported by the the views of his brother [[Rogal Dorn]] who had been present at the final battle, returned his dying father to the Golden Throne and actually HEARD his final orders. Considering the Emperor already had knowledge of the war's outcome (read Outcast Dead), he should have prepared his own plan for its aftermath, therefore his orders to Dorn and [[Jaghatai Khan]] should have at least involved some sort of planning for the eventuality, unless the Emperor simply revealed what Guilliman was in the process of doing and was going to run with that anyway. Disagreements between them very nearly sparked another civil war about how the Imperium and its military should be run. That said, recent revelations have shown that he had been able to make it to Terra but elected to stay behind to fend off the Traitor fleets surrounding it so Sanguinius could fulfill his destiny.		There remains the interpretation that Guilliman's motives were not entirely sincere and that the Emperor, Malcador and the Lion were right: that Guilliman was only interested in building his OWN Empire, irrespective of the Emperor's involvement in it, which is where the problem lies. This is also supported by the the views of his brother [[Rogal Dorn]] who had been present at the final battle, returned his dying father to the Golden Throne and actually HEARD his final orders. Considering the Emperor already had knowledge of the war's outcome (read Outcast Dead), he should have prepared his own plan for its aftermath, therefore his orders to Dorn and [[Jaghatai Khan]] should have at least involved some sort of planning for the eventuality, unless the Emperor simply revealed what Guilliman was in the process of doing and was going to run with that anyway. Disagreements between them very nearly sparked another civil war about how the Imperium and its military should be run. That said, recent revelations have shown that he had been able to make it to Terra but elected to stay behind to fend off the Traitor fleets surrounding it so Sanguinius could fulfill his destiny.

	Additionally, there remains the fact that 10,000 years later, his own sons are the foremost protectors of the Imperium of Man making up 50-60% of the whole Astartes population and have marginalised the others into either conformity (via the [[Codex Astartes\|Codex]]) or obscurity (by denying them descendant chapters). With the Ultramarines Chapter having the [[Spiritual Liege\|singular honour]] of being the most respected of Space Marine chapters, who set the standard [[Matt Ward\|for all other Astartes to aspire to]], it's not a difficult set of circumstances to arrange when your father was the one to initially draft the policies that everyone conforms to. History is written by the victors~~, and Guilliman was the closest thing to a "[[skub\|winner]]" in the Horus Heresy. It~~ is even said on the Ultramarines Chapter Banner: ''[[retcon\|"Our Presence Remakes the Past"]]''		Additionally, there remains the fact that 10,000 years later, his own sons are the foremost protectors of the Imperium of Man making up 50-60% of the whole Astartes population and have marginalised the others into either conformity (via the [[Codex Astartes\|Codex]]) or obscurity (by denying them descendant chapters). With the Ultramarines Chapter having the [[Spiritual Liege\|singular honour]] of being the most respected of Space Marine chapters, who set the standard [[Matt Ward\|for all other Astartes to aspire to]], it's not a difficult set of circumstances to arrange when your father was the one to initially draft the policies that everyone conforms to. History is written by the victors; it is even said on the Ultramarines Chapter Banner: ''[[retcon\|"Our Presence Remakes the Past"]]''

	~~However, immediately after~~ unveiling his [[Codex Astartes]] which affirmed that no person, Primarch or otherwise, should be able to wield such power of the Legions, Guilliman '''DID''' eventually achieve lordship over the Imperium, becoming '''Lord Commander of the Imperium''' (which was essentially Warmaster in all but name) and particularly at odds with the stated intention of restricting forces by achieving oversight of ALL armed forces. The position was used up until M32 and subsequent holders were even referred to by the title of ''"Lord Guilliman"''		After unveiling his [[Codex Astartes]] which affirmed that no person, Primarch or otherwise, should be able to wield such power of the Legions, Guilliman '''DID''' eventually achieve lordship over the Imperium, becoming '''Lord Commander of the Imperium''' (which was essentially Warmaster in all but name) and particularly at odds with the stated intention of restricting forces by achieving oversight of ALL armed forces. The position was used up until M32 and subsequent holders were even referred to by the title of ''"Lord Guilliman"''

	Following Guilliman's resurrection in the last year of the 41st Millennium, his first instinct is to secure his 500 worlds and re-establish the stability of Ultramar (and later on he would choose to begin expanding it further) without actually considering the Imperium at large, once again retreading the familiar ground of Imperium Secundus. But in a surprisingly subtle display of character growth, following the infliction of a Nurgle plague that only he can cure by his mere proximity to the afflicted [[Mary Sue\|(Mary Sue)]].		Following Guilliman's resurrection in the last year of the 41st Millennium, his first instinct is to secure his 500 worlds and re-establish the stability of Ultramar (and later on he would choose to begin expanding it further) without actually considering the Imperium at large, once again retreading the familiar ground of Imperium Secundus. But in a surprisingly subtle display of character growth, following the infliction of a Nurgle plague that only he can cure by his mere proximity to the afflicted [[Mary Sue\|(Mary Sue)]].

85.208.139.110: /* of Guilliman */

2026-01-13T18:10:32Z

of Guilliman

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:10, 13 January 2026
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	Additionally, there remains the fact that 10,000 years later, his own sons are the foremost protectors of the Imperium of Man making up 50-60% of the whole Astartes population and have marginalised the others into either conformity (via the [[Codex Astartes\|Codex]]) or obscurity (by denying them descendant chapters). With the Ultramarines Chapter having the [[Spiritual Liege\|singular honour]] of being the most respected of Space Marine chapters, who set the standard [[Matt Ward\|for all other Astartes to aspire to]], it's not a difficult set of circumstances to arrange when your father was the one to initially draft the policies that everyone conforms to. History is written by the victors, and Guilliman was the closest thing to a "[[skub\|winner]]" in the Horus Heresy. It is even said on the Ultramarines Chapter Banner: ''[[retcon\|"Our Presence Remakes the Past"]]''		Additionally, there remains the fact that 10,000 years later, his own sons are the foremost protectors of the Imperium of Man making up 50-60% of the whole Astartes population and have marginalised the others into either conformity (via the [[Codex Astartes\|Codex]]) or obscurity (by denying them descendant chapters). With the Ultramarines Chapter having the [[Spiritual Liege\|singular honour]] of being the most respected of Space Marine chapters, who set the standard [[Matt Ward\|for all other Astartes to aspire to]], it's not a difficult set of circumstances to arrange when your father was the one to initially draft the policies that everyone conforms to. History is written by the victors, and Guilliman was the closest thing to a "[[skub\|winner]]" in the Horus Heresy. It is even said on the Ultramarines Chapter Banner: ''[[retcon\|"Our Presence Remakes the Past"]]''

			However, immediately after unveiling his [[Codex Astartes]] which affirmed that no person, Primarch or otherwise, should be able to wield such power of the Legions, Guilliman '''DID''' eventually achieve lordship over the Imperium, becoming '''Lord Commander of the Imperium''' (which was essentially Warmaster in all but name) and particularly at odds with the stated intention of restricting forces by achieving oversight of ALL armed forces. The position was used up until M32 and subsequent holders were even referred to by the title of ''"Lord Guilliman"''

	Following Guilliman's resurrection in the last year of the 41st Millennium, his first instinct is to secure his 500 worlds and re-establish the stability of Ultramar (and later on he would choose to begin expanding it further) without actually considering the Imperium at large, once again retreading the familiar ground of Imperium Secundus. But in a surprisingly subtle display of character growth, following the infliction of a Nurgle plague that only he can cure by his mere proximity to the afflicted [[Mary Sue\|(Mary Sue)]].		Following Guilliman's resurrection in the last year of the 41st Millennium, his first instinct is to secure his 500 worlds and re-establish the stability of Ultramar (and later on he would choose to begin expanding it further) without actually considering the Imperium at large, once again retreading the familiar ground of Imperium Secundus. But in a surprisingly subtle display of character growth, following the infliction of a Nurgle plague that only he can cure by his mere proximity to the afflicted [[Mary Sue\|(Mary Sue)]].

	However, immediately after unveiling his [[Codex Astartes]] which affirmed that no person, Primarch or otherwise, should be able to wield such power of the Legions, Guilliman '''DID''' eventually achieve lordship over the Imperium, becoming '''Lord Commander of the Imperium''' (which was essentially Warmaster in all but name) and particularly at odds with the stated intention of restricting forces by achieving oversight of ALL armed forces. The position was used up until M32 and subsequent holders were even referred to by the title of ''"Lord Guilliman"''

	Afterward, he leaves his Five-Hundred Worlds to the care of [[Marneus Calgar]] and sets course for Terra. Shortly after his revival, Guilliman ordered the Ultramarines' Library of Ptolemy to be sealed off with entry forbidden on pain of death. Guilliman claimed the gesture was symbolic of how there would be no place for learning in the dark days they lived in, but what he didn't say was that he wanted to make sure nobody could find evidence of the Imperium Secundus, which he is still deeply ashamed of despite being the only person in a position to know it existed in the first place. It may be possible that he blames himself for the Emperor's mortal wounding as a result of his flawed assumptions. Although since the library’s contents have probably been copied countless times over the millennia and the Ruinstorm is an excuse the Imperium would easily accept, either he’s trying a futile and pointless cover-up or there is something much darker he’s trying to hide (or he set up a sucker bait for anyone trying to dig up dirt to be dissuaded or get themselves killed).		Afterward, he leaves his Five-Hundred Worlds to the care of [[Marneus Calgar]] and sets course for Terra. Shortly after his revival, Guilliman ordered the Ultramarines' Library of Ptolemy to be sealed off with entry forbidden on pain of death. Guilliman claimed the gesture was symbolic of how there would be no place for learning in the dark days they lived in, but what he didn't say was that he wanted to make sure nobody could find evidence of the Imperium Secundus, which he is still deeply ashamed of despite being the only person in a position to know it existed in the first place. It may be possible that he blames himself for the Emperor's mortal wounding as a result of his flawed assumptions. Although since the library’s contents have probably been copied countless times over the millennia and the Ruinstorm is an excuse the Imperium would easily accept, either he’s trying a futile and pointless cover-up or there is something much darker he’s trying to hide (or he set up a sucker bait for anyone trying to dig up dirt to be dissuaded or get themselves killed).

178.17.58.159: /* Formation */

2026-01-13T17:54:35Z

Formation

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:54, 13 January 2026
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	Curze would go on to rampage across Ultramar; nearly unstoppable, he killed many civilians, politicos, and Astartes. Kurze was only brought to a standstill when he fought the maddened and implacable Vulkan. After a brief, bloody, and confused struggle, Vulkan was [[Cake\|killed for good]], and Konrad was briefly banished to [[the Warp]] by a pair of assassins from [[The Cabal\|an unknown power]]. With their troubled but deceased Loyalist brother laid in state and their Traitor brother just gone, the Lion, Guilliman, and Sangiunius discussed the state of the Imperium. They agreed that if the Emperor was dead and Horus was ascendant in the galaxy beyond the Ruinstorm, then the Emperor's legacy would live on, and they would be the torchbearers into the darkness of an uncertain future.		Curze would go on to rampage across Ultramar; nearly unstoppable, he killed many civilians, politicos, and Astartes. Kurze was only brought to a standstill when he fought the maddened and implacable Vulkan. After a brief, bloody, and confused struggle, Vulkan was [[Cake\|killed for good]], and Konrad was briefly banished to [[the Warp]] by a pair of assassins from [[The Cabal\|an unknown power]]. With their troubled but deceased Loyalist brother laid in state and their Traitor brother just gone, the Lion, Guilliman, and Sangiunius discussed the state of the Imperium. They agreed that if the Emperor was dead and Horus was ascendant in the galaxy beyond the Ruinstorm, then the Emperor's legacy would live on, and they would be the torchbearers into the darkness of an uncertain future.

	The three Primarchs would rule the new Imperium Secundus as a triarchy. Even before the arrival of his brothers, Guilliman was reluctant to name himself as the head of this new empire, lest his actions echo that of [[Horus\| another brother]] whose ambition and treachery turned him against their father. With that concern in mind, the Lion and Guilliman agreed that a reluctant Sanguinius being named the Imperator Regis, or the regent emperor. Guilliman was named the Lord Warden as the head of the civil government, and Lion El'Jonson was named Lord Protector of Imperium Secundus as the leader of military forces.		The three [[Primarch\|Primarchs]] would rule the new Imperium Secundus as a triarchy. Even before the arrival of his brothers, Guilliman was reluctant to name himself as the head of this new empire, lest his actions echo that of [[Horus\| another brother]] whose ambition and treachery turned him against their father. With that concern in mind, the Lion and Guilliman agreed that a reluctant Sanguinius being named the Imperator Regis, or the regent emperor. Guilliman was named the Lord Warden as the head of the civil government, and Lion El'Jonson was named Lord Protector of Imperium Secundus as the leader of military forces.

	===Misrepresentation===		===Misrepresentation===

178.17.58.159: /* Intention */

2026-01-13T17:53:02Z

Intention

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:53, 13 January 2026
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	Despite this, Guilliman was fully prepared to fight for what he believed in and even related to his officer [[Remus Ventatus]] (in the same conversation when he iterated that the [[Codex Astartes]] should not be adhered to religiously) that he should even be prepared to fight against those brothers who counted themselves loyal to the Emperor, and later commented that when he was about to declare the Imperium Secundus official he was ready to kill anyone who would stand in his way (what a traitorous scumbag).		Despite this, Guilliman was fully prepared to fight for what he believed in and even related to his officer [[Remus Ventatus]] (in the same conversation when he iterated that the [[Codex Astartes]] should not be adhered to religiously) that he should even be prepared to fight against those brothers who counted themselves loyal to the Emperor, and later commented that when he was about to declare the Imperium Secundus official he was ready to kill anyone who would stand in his way (what a traitorous scumbag).

	Furthermore, the fact that the [[Codex Astartes]] was written well '''before''' the fall of the Emperor shows that it was obvious that Guilliman believed that HE was the only person capable of safeguarding his father's legacy regardless of what [[Leman Russ\|his]] [[Rogal Dorn\|brothers]] [[Corax\|might]] have thought in the aftermath of the Horus Heresy. Guilliman planned it all well in advance and was willing to back it up with force ... Since the ~~"apparent"~~ aim of the Codex ~~was~~ to neuter the strength of other individual Primarchs.		Furthermore, the fact that the [[Codex Astartes]] was written well '''before''' the fall of the Emperor shows that it was obvious that Guilliman believed that HE was the only person capable of safeguarding his father's legacy regardless of what [[Leman Russ\|his]] [[Rogal Dorn\|brothers]] [[Corax\|might]] have thought in the aftermath of the Horus Heresy. Guilliman planned it all well in advance and was willing to back it up with force ... Since the aim of the Codex is to neuter the strength of other individual Primarchs.

	In retrospect, his insistence on leading the Scouring was likely his way of trying to atone for his failure to return to Terra sooner.		In retrospect, his insistence on leading the Scouring was likely his way of trying to atone for his failure to return to Terra sooner.

178.17.58.159: /* Intention */

2026-01-13T17:52:12Z

Intention

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:52, 13 January 2026
Line 82:		Line 82:
	Despite this, Guilliman was fully prepared to fight for what he believed in and even related to his officer [[Remus Ventatus]] (in the same conversation when he iterated that the [[Codex Astartes]] should not be adhered to religiously) that he should even be prepared to fight against those brothers who counted themselves loyal to the Emperor, and later commented that when he was about to declare the Imperium Secundus official he was ready to kill anyone who would stand in his way (what a traitorous scumbag).		Despite this, Guilliman was fully prepared to fight for what he believed in and even related to his officer [[Remus Ventatus]] (in the same conversation when he iterated that the [[Codex Astartes]] should not be adhered to religiously) that he should even be prepared to fight against those brothers who counted themselves loyal to the Emperor, and later commented that when he was about to declare the Imperium Secundus official he was ready to kill anyone who would stand in his way (what a traitorous scumbag).

	Furthermore, the fact that the [[Codex Astartes]] was written well '''before''' the fall of the Emperor shows that it was obvious that Guilliman believed that HE was the only person capable of safeguarding his father's legacy regardless of what [[Leman Russ\|his]] [[Rogal Dorn\|brothers]] [[Corax\|might]] have thought in the aftermath of the Horus Heresy. ~~This would only have been irrespective about who took the position of "Regent" (essentially making it a puppet role), since~~ Guilliman planned it all well in advance and was willing to back it up with force ...~~possibly rightly so, since~~ the "apparent" aim of the Codex was to neuter the strength of other individual ~~warlords. Is this the sign of a [[Heretic]]? Yes~~.		Furthermore, the fact that the [[Codex Astartes]] was written well '''before''' the fall of the Emperor shows that it was obvious that Guilliman believed that HE was the only person capable of safeguarding his father's legacy regardless of what [[Leman Russ\|his]] [[Rogal Dorn\|brothers]] [[Corax\|might]] have thought in the aftermath of the Horus Heresy. Guilliman planned it all well in advance and was willing to back it up with force ... Since the "apparent" aim of the Codex was to neuter the strength of other individual Primarchs.

	In retrospect, his insistence on leading the Scouring was likely his way of trying to atone for his failure to return to Terra sooner.		In retrospect, his insistence on leading the Scouring was likely his way of trying to atone for his failure to return to Terra sooner.

178.17.58.159: /* Intention */

2026-01-13T17:50:13Z

Intention

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:50, 13 January 2026
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	Despite this, Guilliman was fully prepared to fight for what he believed in and even related to his officer [[Remus Ventatus]] (in the same conversation when he iterated that the [[Codex Astartes]] should not be adhered to religiously) that he should even be prepared to fight against those brothers who counted themselves loyal to the Emperor, and later commented that when he was about to declare the Imperium Secundus official he was ready to kill anyone who would stand in his way (what a traitorous scumbag).		Despite this, Guilliman was fully prepared to fight for what he believed in and even related to his officer [[Remus Ventatus]] (in the same conversation when he iterated that the [[Codex Astartes]] should not be adhered to religiously) that he should even be prepared to fight against those brothers who counted themselves loyal to the Emperor, and later commented that when he was about to declare the Imperium Secundus official he was ready to kill anyone who would stand in his way (what a traitorous scumbag).

	Furthermore, the fact that the [[Codex Astartes]] was written well '''before''' the fall of the Emperor shows that it was obvious that Guilliman believed that HE was the only person capable of safeguarding his father's legacy regardless of what [[Leman Russ\|his]] [[Rogal Dorn\|brothers]] [[Corax\|might]] have thought in the aftermath of the Horus Heresy. This would only have been irrespective about who took the position of "Regent" (essentially making it a puppet role), since Guilliman planned it all well in advance and was willing to back it up with force ...possibly rightly so, since the "apparent" aim of the Codex was to neuter the strength of individual warlords~~, followed up by~~ the ~~dissolution~~ of ~~the actual role of Emperor, all making the distribution of power in~~ a future Imperium ever so slightly more equitable and better able to uphold the ideals of the Emperor rather than ignoring them in favor of mindless loyalty towards the Emperor himself. Or at least that's what his original plan was. Given how upset he was (and still is) about the state of the Imperium after he got out of his 9,000 year stay in stasis, it's almost certain that he was less than pleased with the end result.		Furthermore, the fact that the [[Codex Astartes]] was written well '''before''' the fall of the Emperor shows that it was obvious that Guilliman believed that HE was the only person capable of safeguarding his father's legacy regardless of what [[Leman Russ\|his]] [[Rogal Dorn\|brothers]] [[Corax\|might]] have thought in the aftermath of the Horus Heresy. This would only have been irrespective about who took the position of "Regent" (essentially making it a puppet role), since Guilliman planned it all well in advance and was willing to back it up with force ...possibly rightly so, since the "apparent" aim of the Codex was to neuter the strength of other individual warlords. Is this the sign of a [[Heretic]]? Yes.

	~~Is this the sign of a [[Heretic]]? Yes.~~ In retrospect, his insistence on leading the Scouring was likely his way of trying to atone for his failure to return to Terra sooner.		In retrospect, his insistence on leading the Scouring was likely his way of trying to atone for his failure to return to Terra sooner.

	On a final note, keep in mind Guilliman ultimately got ~~manoeuvred~~ into creating Imperium Secundus. [[Kairos Fateweaver]] and [[Lorgar]] arranged things with the [[Battle of Calth]]/Ruinstorm/Shadow Crusade precisely to starve Guilliman from information, keep him busy in Ultramar and put him in a position where '''Plan B''' looked like the best possible option, all in a concerted effort to keep him and his Ultramarines away from the battle of Terra.		On a final note, keep in mind Guilliman ultimately got maneuvered into creating Imperium Secundus. [[Kairos Fateweaver]] and [[Lorgar]] arranged things with the [[Battle of Calth]]/Ruinstorm/Shadow Crusade precisely to starve Guilliman from information, keep him busy in Ultramar and put him in a position where '''Plan B''' looked like the best possible option, all in a concerted effort to keep him and his Ultramarines away from the battle of Terra.

	==Legacy==		==Legacy==

178.17.58.159 at 17:40, 13 January 2026

2026-01-13T17:40:09Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:40, 13 January 2026
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	The three Primarchs eventually found out that the Emperor was still alive due to a combination of Sanguinius's visions of his death at the hands of Horus and Kurze's precognition of his being slain by an assassin sent by the Emperor. Guilliman himself was utterly mortified at everything he had done based on the assumption the greater Imperium had fallen and left for Terra alongside the Lion and Sanguinius at once. Curze, having spent the past few years terrorizing Macragge on the (very twisted) premise that what he was doing was what his father truly wanted, promptly pissed himself laughing from the irony of it all.		The three Primarchs eventually found out that the Emperor was still alive due to a combination of Sanguinius's visions of his death at the hands of Horus and Kurze's precognition of his being slain by an assassin sent by the Emperor. Guilliman himself was utterly mortified at everything he had done based on the assumption the greater Imperium had fallen and left for Terra alongside the Lion and Sanguinius at once. Curze, having spent the past few years terrorizing Macragge on the (very twisted) premise that what he was doing was what his father truly wanted, promptly pissed himself laughing from the irony of it all.

	==~~"Rationale"/~~Excuses==		==Excuses==
	When challenged on the matter by [[Alexis Pollux]] of the [[Imperial Fists]] Retribution Fleet, Guilliman countermanded [[Rogal Dorn]]'s order to return to Terra, with the bullshit arguments that he held command unless someone who outranked him showed up (who could only be Dorn in Pollux's case or the Emperor himself) (???) and that for all intents and purposes, Macragge already was the Imperium (???).		When challenged on the matter by [[Alexis Pollux]] of the [[Imperial Fists]] Retribution Fleet, Guilliman countermanded [[Rogal Dorn]]'s order to return to Terra, with the bullshit arguments that he held command unless someone who outranked him showed up (who could only be Dorn in Pollux's case or the Emperor himself) (???) and that for all intents and purposes, Macragge already was the Imperium (???).

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	The remaining Salamanders attempted to breach the Ruinstorm, despite Guilliman knowing that if they succeeded they could tell Terra about the bullshit he was up to. It turned out to be moot anyway; as when the Salamanders found themselves in a position to warn the Imperium, they chose not to. (Go figure.)		The remaining Salamanders attempted to breach the Ruinstorm, despite Guilliman knowing that if they succeeded they could tell Terra about the bullshit he was up to. It turned out to be moot anyway; as when the Salamanders found themselves in a position to warn the Imperium, they chose not to. (Go figure.)

	==~~Foreknowledge /~~ Intention==		===Intention===
	Guilliman was aware of what his new Imperium represented and did not need to be told by his brothers how heretical it was.		Guilliman was aware of what his new Imperium represented and did not need to be told by his brothers how heretical it was.

178.17.58.159: /* Rationale */

2026-01-13T17:37:16Z

Rationale

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:37, 13 January 2026
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	The three Primarchs eventually found out that the Emperor was still alive due to a combination of Sanguinius's visions of his death at the hands of Horus and Kurze's precognition of his being slain by an assassin sent by the Emperor. Guilliman himself was utterly mortified at everything he had done based on the assumption the greater Imperium had fallen and left for Terra alongside the Lion and Sanguinius at once. Curze, having spent the past few years terrorizing Macragge on the (very twisted) premise that what he was doing was what his father truly wanted, promptly pissed himself laughing from the irony of it all.		The three Primarchs eventually found out that the Emperor was still alive due to a combination of Sanguinius's visions of his death at the hands of Horus and Kurze's precognition of his being slain by an assassin sent by the Emperor. Guilliman himself was utterly mortified at everything he had done based on the assumption the greater Imperium had fallen and left for Terra alongside the Lion and Sanguinius at once. Curze, having spent the past few years terrorizing Macragge on the (very twisted) premise that what he was doing was what his father truly wanted, promptly pissed himself laughing from the irony of it all.

	==Rationale==		=="Rationale"/Excuses==
	When challenged on the matter by [[Alexis Pollux]] of the [[Imperial Fists]] Retribution Fleet, Guilliman countermanded [[Rogal Dorn]]'s order to return to Terra, with the bullshit arguments that he held command unless someone who outranked him showed up (who could only be Dorn in Pollux's case or the Emperor himself) (???) and that for all intents and purposes, Macragge already was the Imperium (???).		When challenged on the matter by [[Alexis Pollux]] of the [[Imperial Fists]] Retribution Fleet, Guilliman countermanded [[Rogal Dorn]]'s order to return to Terra, with the bullshit arguments that he held command unless someone who outranked him showed up (who could only be Dorn in Pollux's case or the Emperor himself) (???) and that for all intents and purposes, Macragge already was the Imperium (???).

	When Pollux then inquired if that made Guilliman the new Emperor, his reply boiled down to ''"I am the Imperium!"''. Guilliman's response to Pollux was very telling and bears the hallmarks of a traitor. By discounting the rest of the Imperium's existence as a mere ''theoretical'' and choosing to deal with only the tangible matters of the ''practical'', it shows he was the sort of person who was power-hungry and would prefer the path of using the most bullshit excuses possible to gain more power. By demanding proof of life he operates on the principle that the Imperium is dead until shown otherwise, which is obviously a load of horseshit.		When Pollux then inquired if that made Guilliman the new Emperor, his reply boiled down to ''"I am the Imperium!"''. Guilliman's response to Pollux was very telling and bears the hallmarks of a traitor. By discounting the rest of the Imperium's existence as a mere ''theoretical'' and choosing to deal with only the tangible matters of the ''practical'', it shows he was the sort of person who was power-hungry and would prefer the path of using the most bullshit excuses possible to gain more power. By demanding proof of life he operates on the principle that the Imperium is dead until shown otherwise, which is obviously a load of horseshit.

	The remaining Salamanders attempted to breach the Ruinstorm, despite Guilliman knowing that if they succeeded they could tell Terra about the bullshit he was up to. It turned out to be moot anyway; as when the Salamanders found themselves in a position to warn the Imperium, they chose not to (Go figure).		The remaining Salamanders attempted to breach the Ruinstorm, despite Guilliman knowing that if they succeeded they could tell Terra about the bullshit he was up to. It turned out to be moot anyway; as when the Salamanders found themselves in a position to warn the Imperium, they chose not to. (Go figure.)

	==Foreknowledge / Intention==		==Foreknowledge / Intention==