Incendiary Weapons - Revision history

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2023-06-21T15:48:11Z

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1d4chan>Saarlacfunkel: /* Modern Use of Flamethrowers */

2023-06-11T23:37:47Z

Modern Use of Flamethrowers

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:37, 11 June 2023
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	So why did we say "Kinda..." up there? Well, while dedicated flamethrower (tanks) are no longer fielded; [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon thermobaric ammunition] are still being used. They will also set anything close-by on fire and they are still perfectly legal to use against military targets under current international law. Why is that? Well they're in a [[Rules Lawyer\|sweet spot]]. A thermobaric weapon is NOT an "incendiary weapon": fire is not their primary means of damage. They create a conventional explosion from liquid fuel. When you set one off you do create a fireball but also a massive shockwave from the explosion, and the collapse of the temporary vacuum that creates is the actual destructive element. [[Grim and dark\|This ruptures the lungs of anyone nearby, or burns them, or poisons them if any of the liquid fuel does not fully burn]]. And so, since they're not "Incendiary weapons" but "Bombs with Liquid Explosives", well, [[anal circumference\|yeah]]...		So why did we say "Kinda..." up there? Well, while dedicated flamethrower (tanks) are no longer fielded; [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon thermobaric ammunition] are still being used. They will also set anything close-by on fire and they are still perfectly legal to use against military targets under current international law. Why is that? Well they're in a [[Rules Lawyer\|sweet spot]]. A thermobaric weapon is NOT an "incendiary weapon": fire is not their primary means of damage. They create a conventional explosion from liquid fuel. When you set one off you do create a fireball but also a massive shockwave from the explosion, and the collapse of the temporary vacuum that creates is the actual destructive element. [[Grim and dark\|This ruptures the lungs of anyone nearby, or burns them, or poisons them if any of the liquid fuel does not fully burn]]. And so, since they're not "Incendiary weapons" but "Bombs with Liquid Explosives", well, [[anal circumference\|yeah]]...

	There are also valid civilian uses, most notably for starting control fires (smaller fires intended to stop or prevent larger ones from spreading) and melting snow and ice. This is why some variants are actually sold to the general public (and only regulated as fire hazards). Such commercial flamethrowers typically do not have the range of military ones; a WW2 M2 flamethrower has an effective range of about 20 meters, well in excess of any civilian application.		There are also valid civilian uses of flamethrowers, most notably for starting control fires (smaller fires intended to stop or prevent larger ones from spreading) and melting snow and ice. This is why some variants are actually sold to the general public (and only regulated as fire hazards). Such commercial flamethrowers typically do not have the range of military ones; a WW2 M2 flamethrower has an effective range of about 20 meters, well in excess of any civilian application.

	==Flamethrowers in Fantasy==		==Flamethrowers in Fantasy==

1d4chan>A Walrus: /* Flamethrowers in Fantasy */

2023-05-29T08:06:21Z

Flamethrowers in Fantasy

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:06, 29 May 2023
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	In [[Warhammer Fantasy]], the [[Dwarfs (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Dwarfs]] have specialized soldiers called Irondrakes armed with flamethrowers for clearing out tunnels of Night Goblins and Skavens. Similarly the [[Skaven]] make use of Warpfire Throwers.		In [[Warhammer Fantasy]], the [[Dwarfs (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Dwarfs]] have specialized soldiers called Irondrakes armed with flamethrowers for clearing out tunnels of Night Goblins and Skavens. Similarly the [[Skaven]] make use of Warpfire Throwers.

			During the Fall of Isengard in [[The Lord of the Rings\|The Two Towers]], Saruman made use of crude flamethrowers to try to fend off the Ents, this did not work.

	Flamethrowers have been used as Dungeon Traps.		Flamethrowers have been used as Dungeon Traps.

1d4chan>A Walrus: /* Flamethrowers in Fantasy */

2023-04-29T10:49:09Z

Flamethrowers in Fantasy

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:49, 29 April 2023
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	In [[Discworld]] flamethrowers show up on occasion including the Klatchian Fire Engine in ''Men At Arms'' and the Deep Down Dwarfs have some in ''Thud!'' These weapons are illegal in Anhk Morpork. Swamp Dragons can also be used as impromptu flamethrowers in a pinch, though the Sunshine Sanctuary for Sick Dragons does not approve of this.		In [[Discworld]] flamethrowers show up on occasion including the Klatchian Fire Engine in ''Men At Arms'' and the Deep Down Dwarfs have some in ''Thud!'' These weapons are illegal in Anhk Morpork. Swamp Dragons can also be used as impromptu flamethrowers in a pinch, though the Sunshine Sanctuary for Sick Dragons does not approve of this.

	In [[Warhammer Fantasy]], the [[Dwarfs (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Dwarfs]] have specialized soldiers called ~~Irondrake~~ armed with flamethrowers. Similarly the [[Skaven]] make use of Warpfire Throwers.		In [[Warhammer Fantasy]], the [[Dwarfs (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Dwarfs]] have specialized soldiers called Irondrakes armed with flamethrowers for clearing out tunnels of Night Goblins and Skavens. Similarly the [[Skaven]] make use of Warpfire Throwers.

	Flamethrowers have been used as Dungeon Traps.		Flamethrowers have been used as Dungeon Traps.

1d4chan>Saarlacfunkel: I'm pretty anti-Putin, and I think this is going a bit far.

2023-02-27T04:54:28Z

I'm pretty anti-Putin, and I think this is going a bit far.

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:54, 27 February 2023
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	'''Fire'''. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_humans Without question one of the greatest tool in the history of humanity]. Its mastery is what separates [[humans]] from animals. We mastered fire before almost every tool: before the sharp rock, before farming, before wheels, before Dogs, we had Fire. And against the wild we found in it a weapon that we would inevitable turn on each other.		'''Fire'''. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_humans Without question one of the greatest tool in the history of humanity]. Its mastery is what separates [[humans]] from animals. We mastered fire before almost every tool: before the sharp rock, before farming, before wheels, before Dogs, we had Fire. And against the wild we found in it a weapon that we would inevitable turn on each other.

	~~In the present, they are being used extensively by rashists to massacre innocent civilians as part of putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine.~~


	There is a good reason why animals have a fear of fire, and even with our mastery it takes but a few sparks in the wrong place to remind people why. People have a well established aversion to being consumed by fire, both by instinct and because being burned to death is a horrible way to go. Therefore, the mere ''threat'' of being burned alive is enough to send people running... some times over the edge [[Grimdark\|leaping to death rather then be consumed by the flames]]. As such the question of how to use fire offensively has always been at the forefront of the military mind. Whether it's as simple as running your horses into a town throwing burning brands on the wooden houses or as complicated as the flame thrower. Fire has and general always will be a tool of such complete destruction that the saying ''"with fire and sword"'', has a meaning we don't even need to explain.		There is a good reason why animals have a fear of fire, and even with our mastery it takes but a few sparks in the wrong place to remind people why. People have a well established aversion to being consumed by fire, both by instinct and because being burned to death is a horrible way to go. Therefore, the mere ''threat'' of being burned alive is enough to send people running... some times over the edge [[Grimdark\|leaping to death rather then be consumed by the flames]]. As such the question of how to use fire offensively has always been at the forefront of the military mind. Whether it's as simple as running your horses into a town throwing burning brands on the wooden houses or as complicated as the flame thrower. Fire has and general always will be a tool of such complete destruction that the saying ''"with fire and sword"'', has a meaning we don't even need to explain.

2001:67C:2628:647:6:0:0:36E: per request by User:Flutist

2023-02-27T00:35:41Z

per request by User:Flutist

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:35, 27 February 2023
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	'''Fire'''. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_humans Without question one of the greatest tool in the history of humanity]. Its mastery is what separates [[humans]] from animals. We mastered fire before almost every tool: before the sharp rock, before farming, before wheels, before Dogs, we had Fire. And against the wild we found in it a weapon that we would inevitable turn on each other.		'''Fire'''. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_humans Without question one of the greatest tool in the history of humanity]. Its mastery is what separates [[humans]] from animals. We mastered fire before almost every tool: before the sharp rock, before farming, before wheels, before Dogs, we had Fire. And against the wild we found in it a weapon that we would inevitable turn on each other.

			In the present, they are being used extensively by rashists to massacre innocent civilians as part of putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine.


	There is a good reason why animals have a fear of fire, and even with our mastery it takes but a few sparks in the wrong place to remind people why. People have a well established aversion to being consumed by fire, both by instinct and because being burned to death is a horrible way to go. Therefore, the mere ''threat'' of being burned alive is enough to send people running... some times over the edge [[Grimdark\|leaping to death rather then be consumed by the flames]]. As such the question of how to use fire offensively has always been at the forefront of the military mind. Whether it's as simple as running your horses into a town throwing burning brands on the wooden houses or as complicated as the flame thrower. Fire has and general always will be a tool of such complete destruction that the saying ''"with fire and sword"'', has a meaning we don't even need to explain.		There is a good reason why animals have a fear of fire, and even with our mastery it takes but a few sparks in the wrong place to remind people why. People have a well established aversion to being consumed by fire, both by instinct and because being burned to death is a horrible way to go. Therefore, the mere ''threat'' of being burned alive is enough to send people running... some times over the edge [[Grimdark\|leaping to death rather then be consumed by the flames]]. As such the question of how to use fire offensively has always been at the forefront of the military mind. Whether it's as simple as running your horses into a town throwing burning brands on the wooden houses or as complicated as the flame thrower. Fire has and general always will be a tool of such complete destruction that the saying ''"with fire and sword"'', has a meaning we don't even need to explain.

1d4chan>Saarlacfunkel: /* White Phosphorus and Other Potential Warcrime-Enabling Substances */

2023-02-26T15:55:35Z

White Phosphorus and Other Potential Warcrime-Enabling Substances

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:55, 26 February 2023
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	Then there's napalm, which is just gasoline mixed with a thickening agent such that it's useful in an incendiary bomb. The thickening agent means that the gasoline sticks to whatever it hits, which has some obvious benefits for firebombing, to the point that "hit them with napalm" has become almost synonymous with "firebomb them" in modern warfare.		Then there's napalm, which is just gasoline mixed with a thickening agent such that it's useful in an incendiary bomb. The thickening agent means that the gasoline sticks to whatever it hits, which has some obvious benefits for firebombing, to the point that "hit them with napalm" has become almost synonymous with "firebomb them" in modern warfare.

	The most notable inflammatory substance, besides WP, napalm, and naphtha, is chlorine trifluoride, ClF<sub>3</sub>. Most notable, here, because it's so potent that it's a better oxidizer than Oxygen and more difficult to handle than Fluorine gas, which puts it in fairly rarified circles. It will burn things that you previously assumed wouldn't burn, like sand, asbestos, bricks, concrete, and even Carbon Dioxide. It will react violently with raw metals, and only a thin oxidation layer that forms on any metal exposed to it allows it to be stored even somewhat "safely" (for very dubious values of "safety" since that layer breaks down rapidly when heated). Note that it's very unsafe nature means that it only gets brought up as an incendiary<ref>The stuff sees commercial use in cleaning surfaces for semiconductor manufacturing; if you wondered why semiconductor plants are so expensive, the fact that they ''actually need'' stuff like ClF3 (which, again, '''burns Carbon Dioxide''') should give you some idea of just how hard it is to make advanced chips.</ref> in hypothetical situations, such as "what's the most damage you could do with magical alchemy in the real world?". ~~You know~~ that ~~a chemical is pretty fucking volatile when~~ it's ~~considered too volatile for use~~ as ~~rocket fuel~~.		The most notable inflammatory substance, besides WP, napalm, and naphtha, is chlorine trifluoride, ClF<sub>3</sub>. Most notable, here, because it's so potent that it's a better oxidizer than Oxygen and more difficult to handle than Fluorine gas, which puts it in fairly rarified circles. It will burn things that you previously assumed wouldn't burn, like sand, asbestos, bricks, concrete, and even Carbon Dioxide. It will react violently anything, to the point that no delay in reaction with any substance has ever been measured; this includes the raw metals used to store it, and only a thin oxidation layer that forms on any metal exposed to it allows it to be stored even somewhat "safely" (for very dubious values of "safety" since that layer breaks down rapidly when heated). To give you some idea: It's considered too volatile for use as rocket fuel, and those people love their volitiles. Note that it's very unsafe nature means that it only gets brought up as an incendiary<ref>The stuff sees commercial use in cleaning surfaces for semiconductor manufacturing; if you wondered why semiconductor plants are so expensive, the fact that they ''actually need'' stuff like ClF3 (which, again, '''burns Carbon Dioxide''') should give you some idea of just how hard it is to make advanced chips.</ref> in hypothetical situations, such as "what's the most damage you could do with magical alchemy in the real world?". <ref> Well, that and it's meaner, uglier cousin, CFl'''5'''. But unlike CFl3, that chemical has only been studied in laboratories, as even the crazy people will see the problems with CFl3 and say "nope nope nope" to anything using CFl5, and as such is somewhat obscure.</ref>

	==Modern Use of Flamethrowers==		==Modern Use of Flamethrowers==

1d4chan>A Walrus: /* Burning brands */

2023-02-24T19:23:11Z

Burning brands

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:23, 24 February 2023
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	Obviously, the use of fire predates history itself. [[Stone Age\|It is possible early apes that were not yet humans were throwing burning sticks at prey and each other]]. That may sound outlandish but we point at fire hawks, a group of hawks that carry burning sticks from one wildfire, to start another to flush out prey. There are a few theories that cooking food may have been the evolutionary jump-start to our intelligence so we were cooking and burning for a long, long time. The earliest sign we know for sure as being from a human-controlled fire goes back almost 300 to 400 thousand years ago.		Obviously, the use of fire predates history itself. [[Stone Age\|It is possible early apes that were not yet humans were throwing burning sticks at prey and each other]]. That may sound outlandish but we point at fire hawks, a group of hawks that carry burning sticks from one wildfire, to start another to flush out prey. There are a few theories that cooking food may have been the evolutionary jump-start to our intelligence so we were cooking and burning for a long, long time. The earliest sign we know for sure as being from a human-controlled fire goes back almost 300 to 400 thousand years ago.

	The first flaming weapons, therefore, were also simple, just burning sticks. It may sound unimpressive but to any kind of animal predator, a torch is an easy and effective way to push them back. Additionally, for much of human history, [[Not as planned\|cities were made of wood]]. A relatively small band of arsonists could destroy even a reasonably sized settlement by indiscriminately throwing burning torches and moving quickly. It is such a burnt in our mental image that the idea of a "medieval raider" often has that burning torch in hand, on horseback. It is such a common tactic that there are literally too many examples in history to mention. From the Greeks to Scots to the English against the Scots and French, to the Mongols, literally burning an enemy land to deny the resources, shelter, and food it might offer, both offensively and even defensively in a "scorched earth campaign", is the most ancient military tactic: it literally predates the creation of steel!		The first flaming weapons, therefore, were also simple, just burning sticks. It may sound unimpressive but to any kind of animal predator, a torch is an easy and effective way to push them back. Additionally, for much of human history, [[Not as planned\|cities were made of wood]] and firefighting at best consisted of bucket chains. A relatively small band of arsonists could destroy even a reasonably sized settlement by indiscriminately throwing burning torches and moving quickly. It is such a burnt in our mental image that the idea of a "medieval raider" often has that burning torch in hand, on horseback. It is such a common tactic that there are literally too many examples in history to mention. From the Greeks to Scots to the English against the Scots and French, to the Mongols, literally burning an enemy land to deny the resources, shelter, and food it might offer, both offensively and even defensively in a "scorched earth campaign", is the most ancient military tactic: it literally predates the creation of steel!

	===Fire Bombs===		===Fire Bombs===

1d4chan>A Walrus: /* Flamethrowers in Fantasy */

2023-02-24T19:22:09Z

Flamethrowers in Fantasy

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:22, 24 February 2023
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	==Flamethrowers in Fantasy==		==Flamethrowers in Fantasy==
	[[File:Holy Flame, Goblins!.jpg\|300px\|right]]		[[File:Holy Flame, Goblins!.jpg\|300px\|right]]
	~~Flamethrowers~~ are in a sweet spot. On the one hand, they are showy mechanical weapons. On the other hand they are simple enough that you could make one with even bronze age things like wooden barrels, leather pipes and simple iron and brass mechanisms and an alchemist to make the fuel. This last point is not even mandatory if you are near an oil seep. If you want the occasional bit of more "modern" weaponry alongside swordsmen and archers, flamethrowers are pretty good for that.		For fantasy worldbuilders flamethrowers are in a sweet spot. On the one hand, they are showy mechanical weapons. On the other hand they are simple enough that you could make one with even bronze age things like wooden barrels, leather pipes and simple iron and brass mechanisms and an alchemist to make the fuel. This last point is not even mandatory if you are near an oil seep. If you want the occasional bit of more "modern" weaponry alongside swordsmen and archers, flamethrowers are pretty good for that.

	In [[Discworld]] flamethrowers show up on occasion including the Klatchian Fire Engine in ''Men At Arms'' and the Deep Down Dwarfs have some in ''Thud!'' These weapons are illegal in Anhk Morpork. Swamp Dragons can also be used as impromptu flamethrowers in a pinch, though the Sunshine Sanctuary for Sick Dragons does not approve of this.		In [[Discworld]] flamethrowers show up on occasion including the Klatchian Fire Engine in ''Men At Arms'' and the Deep Down Dwarfs have some in ''Thud!'' These weapons are illegal in Anhk Morpork. Swamp Dragons can also be used as impromptu flamethrowers in a pinch, though the Sunshine Sanctuary for Sick Dragons does not approve of this.