Khornate Knights - Revision history

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1d4chan>Triacom: Undo revision 848875 by 217.180.196.10 (talk) - Theorycrafting.

2022-10-18T08:04:52Z

Undo revision 848875 by 217.180.196.10 (talk) - Theorycrafting.

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:04, 18 October 2022
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	Basically one story in the 5th Edition [[Grey Knight]] Codex, "The Bloodtide Returns", lists the Grey Knights as coming across a planet wherein a powerful Dark Age of Technology nanite weapon controlled by a bloodthirster resided - one so powerful that it was corrupting the populace by flying into their pores and driving them crazy. There was a convent of Sisters that were being slowly wiped out near the site whose faith was keeping them pure and untouched by the taint except for all the ones who were corrupted, and instead of asking for the Sisters' assistance the Grey Knights proceeded to slaughter them all and make wards from their blood, then go about banishing the daemon. [[What\|'''All after the codex literally stating that their faith is strong enough to protect them from any kind of daemonic corruption, so they wouldn't have even needed those wards.''']]		Basically one story in the 5th Edition [[Grey Knight]] Codex, "The Bloodtide Returns", lists the Grey Knights as coming across a planet wherein a powerful Dark Age of Technology nanite weapon controlled by a bloodthirster resided - one so powerful that it was corrupting the populace by flying into their pores and driving them crazy. There was a convent of Sisters that were being slowly wiped out near the site whose faith was keeping them pure and untouched by the taint except for all the ones who were corrupted, and instead of asking for the Sisters' assistance the Grey Knights proceeded to slaughter them all and make wards from their blood, then go about banishing the daemon. [[What\|'''All after the codex literally stating that their faith is strong enough to protect them from any kind of daemonic corruption, so they wouldn't have even needed those wards.''']]

	Think about this, for just a minute. The Sisters' faith protected some of them from being corrupted. Yet, as has been shown before, there has been <s>a few</s> only one Sisters of Battle that willingly fell to Chaos ~~(that we know of, but canonically they keep such things secret)~~. In come the Grey Knights, whose faith is so powerful it is quite literally their strongest weapon and their most potent protection. These Grey Knights' faith is not strong enough to withstand the NANITE WEAPONS of Chaos, while the Sisters' is? Does that make ANY sense at all?		Think about this, for just a minute. The Sisters' faith protected some of them from being corrupted. Yet, as has been shown before, there has been <s>a few</s> only one Sisters of Battle that willingly fell to Chaos. In come the Grey Knights, whose faith is so powerful it is quite literally their strongest weapon and their most potent protection. These Grey Knights' faith is not strong enough to withstand the NANITE WEAPONS of Chaos, while the Sisters' is? Does that make ANY sense at all?

	Even when the Sisters would be truly useful against Chaos, why the FUCK would the Grey Knights, a purely Imperial faction who keeps faith the highest measure of existence would downright TURN ON THEM AND MURDER Emperor's servants and pour their blood on themselves like some insane chaotic cult? Infighting due to conflicts of interest is possible, as seen in Dawn of War: Dark Crusade and Dawn of War: Soulstorm, yet this goes against all logical explanation.		Even when the Sisters would be truly useful against Chaos, why the FUCK would the Grey Knights, a purely Imperial faction who keeps faith the highest measure of existence would downright TURN ON THEM AND MURDER Emperor's servants and pour their blood on themselves like some insane chaotic cult? Infighting due to conflicts of interest is possible, as seen in Dawn of War: Dark Crusade and Dawn of War: Soulstorm, yet this goes against all logical explanation.

1d4chan>Triacom: Undo revision 848876 by 217.180.196.10 (talk) - Baseless theorycrafting.

2022-10-18T08:04:38Z

Undo revision 848876 by 217.180.196.10 (talk) - Baseless theorycrafting.

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:04, 18 October 2022
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	* That no Grey Knight in the history of the chapter has ever fallen to the temptations of [[Chaos]] due to the massive amounts of spiritual and physical indoctrination and training they go through that would make the Space Marines' training and creation regimen look like the Guard's conscript training, along with their anti-daemon Aegis armours. In addition, in older fluff, the Grey Knights COULD fall to Chaos, in theory. However, in addition to their intense faith and rigorous physical and mental training, they closely regulate themselves. If a Battle-Brother's reaction to Chaos was anything less than [[Angry Marines\|"NO FUCKING WAY!"]], they would have a force halberd to the face in record time.		* That no Grey Knight in the history of the chapter has ever fallen to the temptations of [[Chaos]] due to the massive amounts of spiritual and physical indoctrination and training they go through that would make the Space Marines' training and creation regimen look like the Guard's conscript training, along with their anti-daemon Aegis armours. In addition, in older fluff, the Grey Knights COULD fall to Chaos, in theory. However, in addition to their intense faith and rigorous physical and mental training, they closely regulate themselves. If a Battle-Brother's reaction to Chaos was anything less than [[Angry Marines\|"NO FUCKING WAY!"]], they would have a force halberd to the face in record time.

	* Only one sister has ever willingly fallen to Chaos~~. Though canon says they keep such things secret so there must have been others. Probably many since they’re normal humans and we’re talking millennia~~.		* Only one sister has ever willingly fallen to Chaos.

	And yet we have this - evidence of the darkest kind of heresy, if not outright [[Khorne]] worship. I mean, it's not like there's an entire book written by Ben Counter about a Grey Knight becoming a Champion of Khorne or anything that hasn't been retconned. Thankfully sister paint has been retconned, but this was still canon for a time, a sign of how bad some things were under [[Matt Ward\|an incompetent writer who should've never been allowed a pen]].		And yet we have this - evidence of the darkest kind of heresy, if not outright [[Khorne]] worship. I mean, it's not like there's an entire book written by Ben Counter about a Grey Knight becoming a Champion of Khorne or anything that hasn't been retconned. Thankfully sister paint has been retconned, but this was still canon for a time, a sign of how bad some things were under [[Matt Ward\|an incompetent writer who should've never been allowed a pen]].

1d4chan>Triacom: Undo revision 848877 by 217.180.196.10 (talk) - This does not improve the page

2022-10-18T08:04:25Z

Undo revision 848877 by 217.180.196.10 (talk) - This does not improve the page

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:04, 18 October 2022
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	Basically one story in the 5th Edition [[Grey Knight]] Codex, "The Bloodtide Returns", lists the Grey Knights as coming across a planet wherein a powerful Dark Age of Technology nanite weapon controlled by a bloodthirster resided - one so powerful that it was corrupting the populace by flying into their pores and driving them crazy. There was a convent of Sisters that were being slowly wiped out near the site whose faith was keeping them pure and untouched by the taint except for all the ones who were corrupted, and instead of asking for the Sisters' assistance the Grey Knights proceeded to slaughter them all and make wards from their blood, then go about banishing the daemon. [[What\|'''All after the codex literally stating that their faith is strong enough to protect them from any kind of daemonic corruption, so they wouldn't have even needed those wards.''']]		Basically one story in the 5th Edition [[Grey Knight]] Codex, "The Bloodtide Returns", lists the Grey Knights as coming across a planet wherein a powerful Dark Age of Technology nanite weapon controlled by a bloodthirster resided - one so powerful that it was corrupting the populace by flying into their pores and driving them crazy. There was a convent of Sisters that were being slowly wiped out near the site whose faith was keeping them pure and untouched by the taint except for all the ones who were corrupted, and instead of asking for the Sisters' assistance the Grey Knights proceeded to slaughter them all and make wards from their blood, then go about banishing the daemon. [[What\|'''All after the codex literally stating that their faith is strong enough to protect them from any kind of daemonic corruption, so they wouldn't have even needed those wards.''']]

	Think about this, for just a minute. The Sisters' faith protected some of them from being corrupted. Yet, as has been shown before, there has been <s>a few</s> only one Sisters of Battle that willingly fell to Chaos (that we know of, but canonically they keep such things secret)~~. One sister by that point in canon, but it became more reasonable and believable later by saying the Adepta Sororitas keeps traitors and heretics in their ranks a secret and hunts them down privately~~. In come the Grey Knights, whose faith is so powerful it is quite literally their strongest weapon and their most potent protection. These Grey Knights' faith is not strong enough to withstand the NANITE WEAPONS of Chaos, while the Sisters' is? Does that make ANY sense at all?		Think about this, for just a minute. The Sisters' faith protected some of them from being corrupted. Yet, as has been shown before, there has been <s>a few</s> only one Sisters of Battle that willingly fell to Chaos (that we know of, but canonically they keep such things secret). In come the Grey Knights, whose faith is so powerful it is quite literally their strongest weapon and their most potent protection. These Grey Knights' faith is not strong enough to withstand the NANITE WEAPONS of Chaos, while the Sisters' is? Does that make ANY sense at all?

	Even when the Sisters would be truly useful against Chaos, why the FUCK would the Grey Knights, a purely Imperial faction who keeps faith the highest measure of existence would downright TURN ON THEM AND MURDER Emperor's servants and pour their blood on themselves like some insane chaotic cult? Infighting due to conflicts of interest is possible, as seen in Dawn of War: Dark Crusade and Dawn of War: Soulstorm, yet this goes against all logical explanation.		Even when the Sisters would be truly useful against Chaos, why the FUCK would the Grey Knights, a purely Imperial faction who keeps faith the highest measure of existence would downright TURN ON THEM AND MURDER Emperor's servants and pour their blood on themselves like some insane chaotic cult? Infighting due to conflicts of interest is possible, as seen in Dawn of War: Dark Crusade and Dawn of War: Soulstorm, yet this goes against all logical explanation.

	This is a classic case of not just heresy, but of [[Extra Heresy\|''extra'' heresy]]; canon ~~by that~~ point ~~in time~~ had explicitly detailed 3 things:		This is a classic case of not just heresy, but of [[Extra Heresy\|''extra'' heresy]]; canon to this point had explicitly detailed 3 things:

	* That the Grey Knights greatly loathe Chaos and are completely immune to its corrupting influence. They wouldn't need wards made on the spot to withstand daemonic corruption, given that just their Aegis armour's own built-in wards would deflect any corrupting influence that would try to tempt them (assuming that it COULD tempt them at all).		* That the Grey Knights greatly loathe Chaos and are completely immune to its corrupting influence. They wouldn't need wards made on the spot to withstand daemonic corruption, given that just their Aegis armour's own built-in wards would deflect any corrupting influence that would try to tempt them (assuming that it COULD tempt them at all).
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	* That no Grey Knight in the history of the chapter has ever fallen to the temptations of [[Chaos]] due to the massive amounts of spiritual and physical indoctrination and training they go through that would make the Space Marines' training and creation regimen look like the Guard's conscript training, along with their anti-daemon Aegis armours. In addition, in older fluff, the Grey Knights COULD fall to Chaos, in theory. However, in addition to their intense faith and rigorous physical and mental training, they closely regulate themselves. If a Battle-Brother's reaction to Chaos was anything less than [[Angry Marines\|"NO FUCKING WAY!"]], they would have a force halberd to the face in record time.		* That no Grey Knight in the history of the chapter has ever fallen to the temptations of [[Chaos]] due to the massive amounts of spiritual and physical indoctrination and training they go through that would make the Space Marines' training and creation regimen look like the Guard's conscript training, along with their anti-daemon Aegis armours. In addition, in older fluff, the Grey Knights COULD fall to Chaos, in theory. However, in addition to their intense faith and rigorous physical and mental training, they closely regulate themselves. If a Battle-Brother's reaction to Chaos was anything less than [[Angry Marines\|"NO FUCKING WAY!"]], they would have a force halberd to the face in record time.

	* Only one sister has ever willingly fallen to Chaos.		* Only one sister has ever willingly fallen to Chaos. Though canon says they keep such things secret so there must have been others. Probably many since they’re normal humans and we’re talking millennia.

	And yet we have this - evidence of the darkest kind of heresy, if not outright [[Khorne]] worship. I mean, it's not like there's an entire book written by Ben Counter about a Grey Knight becoming a Champion of Khorne or anything that hasn't been retconned. Thankfully sister paint has been retconned, but this was still canon for a time, a sign of how bad some things were under [[Matt Ward\|an incompetent writer who should've never been allowed a pen]].		And yet we have this - evidence of the darkest kind of heresy, if not outright [[Khorne]] worship. I mean, it's not like there's an entire book written by Ben Counter about a Grey Knight becoming a Champion of Khorne or anything that hasn't been retconned. Thankfully sister paint has been retconned, but this was still canon for a time, a sign of how bad some things were under [[Matt Ward\|an incompetent writer who should've never been allowed a pen]].

1d4chan>Triacom: Undo revision 848878 by 217.180.196.10 (talk) - No the Imperium does not teach that you can summon Daemons in schools.

2022-10-18T08:03:55Z

Undo revision 848878 by 217.180.196.10 (talk) - No the Imperium does not teach that you can summon Daemons in schools.

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:03, 18 October 2022
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	The very fact that we were even having the above conversation means that even in a best-case scenario, something has gone horribly wrong in the storytelling department.		The very fact that we were even having the above conversation means that even in a best-case scenario, something has gone horribly wrong in the storytelling department.

	Within the context of the 40k verse, there is some basis that the Grey Knights would do something that we would otherwise consider being pants-on-head retarded. Note that GW isn't shy of inventing reasons to justify [[Grimdark\|otherwise allied forces to kill ''the fuck'' out of each other]]. First, the GKs are stone cold pragmatists who burn planets just to keep secret [[Extra Heresy\|something particularly heretical]] some guardsmen might have witnessed~~. Something heretical that, by the way, the whole Imperium has known for millennia and is taught in their schools and churches~~. Second, is that they are all-around stone cold motherfuckers, despite the whole incorruptible nobility thing and finest-of-the-Emperor's-finest thing. There's [[Exterminatus\|a pretty good reason]] that they aren't really trusted by the other factions that would fight Chaos too, since the Knights seem to think everybody else as a bit more expendable than themselves and don’t seem to care that destroying worlds and murdering witnesses to thinks the Imperium has spent millennia fighting in plain view galaxy-wide is counter to their entire purpose and means they’re arguably Traitor Marines. Killing the SoB in that story was just one story of dicking around the other Imperial elements, and the Knights apparently do this sort of thing at least semi-regularly.		Within the context of the 40k verse, there is some basis that the Grey Knights would do something that we would otherwise consider being pants-on-head retarded. Note that GW isn't shy of inventing reasons to justify [[Grimdark\|otherwise allied forces to kill ''the fuck'' out of each other]]. First, the GKs are stone cold pragmatists who burn planets just to keep secret [[Extra Heresy\|something particularly heretical]] some guardsmen might have witnessed. Second, is that they are all-around stone cold motherfuckers, despite the whole incorruptible nobility thing and finest-of-the-Emperor's-finest thing. There's [[Exterminatus\|a pretty good reason]] that they aren't really trusted by the other factions that would fight Chaos too, since the Knights seem to think everybody else as a bit more expendable than themselves. Killing the SoB in that story was just one story of dicking around the other Imperial elements, and the Knights apparently do this sort of thing at least semi-regularly.

	BUT!!		BUT!!

1d4chan>Triacom: Undo revision 848879 by 217.180.196.10 (talk) - Holy shit, do not argue on the main page.

2022-10-18T08:03:15Z

Undo revision 848879 by 217.180.196.10 (talk) - Holy shit, do not argue on the main page.

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:03, 18 October 2022
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	So we still blame Matt Ward, just for bad conveyance instead of continuity errors.		So we still blame Matt Ward, just for bad conveyance instead of continuity errors.

	Except that explanation still doesn't make any sense, considering SoB already know about Chaos/Daemons, fight them now and ~~then and are part of the <s>Inquisition, which lords over~~ both factions</s> <s>Ecclesiarchy</s> are technically part of the Ecclesiarchy but outside its command structure explicitly to act as the priesthood’s equivalent of commissars and are expressly the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus, which maintains some knowledge of daemons so they can be exorcised. Also, consider that a battle force of SoB sent to purge a heretical cult may encounter daemons and request the Grey Knights' presence.		Except that explanation still doesn't make any sense, considering SoB already know about Chaos/Daemons, fight them now and both maintains some knowledge of daemons so they can be exorcised. Also, consider that a battle force of SoB sent to purge a heretical cult may encounter daemons and request the Grey Knights' presence.

	This also doesn't make a whole lot of sense when considering that the Guard regularly fights off Chaos warbands ~~(which is badass)~~ and the like who frequently make use of daemons, and they most certainly do not purge the entirety of Cadia every so often, nor do they purge the various Cadian armies that are going around the Imperium whenever encountered, despite said Cadians almost certainly having at least some knowledge of Daemons. So this whole concept really doesn't work to start with.		This also doesn't make a whole lot of sense when considering that the Guard regularly fights off Chaos warbands and the like who frequently make use of daemons, and they most certainly do not purge the entirety of Cadia every so often, nor do they purge the various Cadian armies that are going around the Imperium whenever encountered, despite said Cadians almost certainly having at least some knowledge of Daemons. So this whole concept really doesn't work to start with.

	In short, killing every Imperial that has encountered Chaos and daemons, would very quickly lead to being no more Imperials to kill.		In short, killing every Imperial that has encountered Chaos and daemons, would very quickly lead to being no more Imperials to kill.

1d4chan>Triacom: Undo revision 848880 by 217.180.196.10 (talk) - No it would not, that function is served already by the Inquisition.

2022-10-18T08:02:25Z

Undo revision 848880 by 217.180.196.10 (talk) - No it would not, that function is served already by the Inquisition.

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:02, 18 October 2022
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	This also doesn't make a whole lot of sense when considering that the Guard regularly fights off Chaos warbands (which is badass) and the like who frequently make use of daemons, and they most certainly do not purge the entirety of Cadia every so often, nor do they purge the various Cadian armies that are going around the Imperium whenever encountered, despite said Cadians almost certainly having at least some knowledge of Daemons. So this whole concept really doesn't work to start with.		This also doesn't make a whole lot of sense when considering that the Guard regularly fights off Chaos warbands (which is badass) and the like who frequently make use of daemons, and they most certainly do not purge the entirety of Cadia every so often, nor do they purge the various Cadian armies that are going around the Imperium whenever encountered, despite said Cadians almost certainly having at least some knowledge of Daemons. So this whole concept really doesn't work to start with.

	~~Knowledge of the Grey Knights, if widespread, would also greatly increase Imperial morale and frighten anyone entertaining heretical thoughts.~~

	In short, killing every Imperial that has encountered Chaos and daemons, would very quickly lead to being no more Imperials to kill.		In short, killing every Imperial that has encountered Chaos and daemons, would very quickly lead to being no more Imperials to kill.

217.180.196.10: /* On GK/Ordo Malleus Teamkilling */

2022-09-24T04:30:39Z

On GK/Ordo Malleus Teamkilling

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:30, 24 September 2022
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	This also doesn't make a whole lot of sense when considering that the Guard regularly fights off Chaos warbands (which is badass) and the like who frequently make use of daemons, and they most certainly do not purge the entirety of Cadia every so often, nor do they purge the various Cadian armies that are going around the Imperium whenever encountered, despite said Cadians almost certainly having at least some knowledge of Daemons. So this whole concept really doesn't work to start with.		This also doesn't make a whole lot of sense when considering that the Guard regularly fights off Chaos warbands (which is badass) and the like who frequently make use of daemons, and they most certainly do not purge the entirety of Cadia every so often, nor do they purge the various Cadian armies that are going around the Imperium whenever encountered, despite said Cadians almost certainly having at least some knowledge of Daemons. So this whole concept really doesn't work to start with.

			Knowledge of the Grey Knights, if widespread, would also greatly increase Imperial morale and frighten anyone entertaining heretical thoughts.

	In short, killing every Imperial that has encountered Chaos and daemons, would very quickly lead to being no more Imperials to kill.		In short, killing every Imperial that has encountered Chaos and daemons, would very quickly lead to being no more Imperials to kill.

217.180.196.10: /* On GK/Ordo Malleus Teamkilling */

2022-09-24T04:29:14Z

On GK/Ordo Malleus Teamkilling

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:29, 24 September 2022
Line 54:		Line 54:
	So we still blame Matt Ward, just for bad conveyance instead of continuity errors.		So we still blame Matt Ward, just for bad conveyance instead of continuity errors.

	Except that explanation still doesn't make any sense, considering SoB already know about Chaos/Daemons, fight them now and then and are part of the <s>Inquisition, which lords over both factions</s> Ecclesiarchy, which maintains some knowledge of daemons so they can be exorcised. Also, consider that a battle force of SoB sent to purge a heretical cult may encounter daemons and request the Grey Knights' presence.		Except that explanation still doesn't make any sense, considering SoB already know about Chaos/Daemons, fight them now and then and are part of the <s>Inquisition, which lords over both factions</s> <s>Ecclesiarchy</s> are technically part of the Ecclesiarchy but outside its command structure explicitly to act as the priesthood’s equivalent of commissars and are expressly the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus, which maintains some knowledge of daemons so they can be exorcised. Also, consider that a battle force of SoB sent to purge a heretical cult may encounter daemons and request the Grey Knights' presence.

	This also doesn't make a whole lot of sense when considering that the Guard regularly fights off Chaos warbands and the like who frequently make use of daemons, and they most certainly do not purge the entirety of Cadia every so often, nor do they purge the various Cadian armies that are going around the Imperium whenever encountered, despite said Cadians almost certainly having at least some knowledge of Daemons. So this whole concept really doesn't work to start with.		This also doesn't make a whole lot of sense when considering that the Guard regularly fights off Chaos warbands (which is badass) and the like who frequently make use of daemons, and they most certainly do not purge the entirety of Cadia every so often, nor do they purge the various Cadian armies that are going around the Imperium whenever encountered, despite said Cadians almost certainly having at least some knowledge of Daemons. So this whole concept really doesn't work to start with.

	In short, killing every Imperial that has encountered Chaos and daemons, would very quickly lead to being no more Imperials to kill.		In short, killing every Imperial that has encountered Chaos and daemons, would very quickly lead to being no more Imperials to kill.