Legion of the Damned - Revision history

157.131.68.73: /* Solid Theory */

2025-12-13T22:56:36Z

Solid Theory

imported>Administrator: 199 revisions imported

2023-06-21T16:51:34Z

199 revisions imported

← Older revision	Revision as of 16:51, 21 June 2023
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imported>Administrator: 1 revision imported

2023-06-19T02:32:03Z

1 revision imported

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1d4chan>Piroko at 18:22, 14 June 2023

2023-06-14T18:22:15Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:22, 14 June 2023
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	{{Topquote\|We are the Angels of Death\|Space Marine motto}}		{{Topquote\|We are the Angels of Death\|Space Marine motto}}

			{{topquote\|A marine can't be defeated. Oh, you can kill us, but we'll just regroup in hell.\|Avatar 2}}

	They are literally undead space marines that are on warp-fire. And it's epic. Perhaps one of the most [[Awesome\|BADASS]] [[Space Marine]] Chapters. '''EVER'''		They are literally undead space marines that are on warp-fire. And it's epic. Perhaps one of the most [[Awesome\|BADASS]] [[Space Marine]] Chapters. '''EVER'''

2A02:1810:4E2C:A900:EC49:7D91:F433:A853 at 16:10, 4 June 2023

2023-06-04T16:10:26Z

Show changes

104.220.162.108 at 01:42, 31 May 2023

2023-05-31T01:42:46Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:42, 31 May 2023
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	[[GW]] [[What\|has given them an ID crisis, because it can't make up its mind between an ever-growing army of badass GOOD dead people, something original, or a dwindling group of badass mutated Space Marines that are slowly getting killed by mutation.]]		[[GW]] [[What\|has given them an ID crisis, because it can't make up its mind between an ever-growing army of badass GOOD dead people, something original, or a dwindling group of badass mutated Space Marines that are slowly getting killed by mutation.]]

	Recently got a new squad look that comes with a Sergeant that looks like a [[Rage\|GODDAMNED]] [[Chaplain\|CHAPLAIN!]] (Recent as in 2009~~....12 years ago~~...Figures GW would make something cool but forget they exist until reminded by players.)		Recently got a new squad look that comes with a Sergeant that looks like a [[Rage\|GODDAMNED]] [[Chaplain\|CHAPLAIN!]] (Recent as in 2009... Figures GW would make something cool but forget they exist until reminded by players.)

	==Fire Hawks==		==Fire Hawks==

213.119.242.51 at 12:46, 27 May 2023

2023-05-27T12:46:47Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:46, 27 May 2023
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	Another explanation for the existence of the Legion of the Damned would be that they are the spirits or ghosts of fallen Space Marines which continue to serve the Emperor even in death. This makes perfect sense, as in the book 'The Chapter's Due', Ultramarines Captain Uriel Ventris of the Fourth Company encountered the Legion while engaged in a battle with the Iron Warriors in the Tomb of Remus Ventanus on Calth. On one of the Legion's shoulder pads he saw a 'barely legible, inverted omega symbol'. This member of the Legion of the Damned was stated to have other traces of Ultramarines symbology and was heavily '''implied''' to be Remus Ventanus, a former Ultramarines captain who died ten thousand years prior. Before he and the other members of the Legion of Damned faded away, the ghost of Remus Ventanus whispered the true name of the daemon Lord M'kar and gave Uriel the dagger that was necessary for slaying the daemon. This fits with the Legion of the Damned well, as they once again saved Imperial forces from destruction. Furthermore this doesn't rule out the Fire Hawks being members of the Legion of the Damned, that would probably be the case. However they would not be the only Space Marines to be part of the Legion. Although this theory doesn't rule out time travel, it negates the need for it, as there would have been plenty of potential LotD members prior to the Fire Hawks being lost in the Warp. Later in 'Master of Mankind,' the Emperor apparently summoned fiery manifestations of Space Marines, and even Custodes as well as a [[Ferrus Manus\|giant with silver arms and a hammer]], to hold back the daemonic tide before sealing the Eternity Gate. Quite possibly, the Fire Hawks were the core group of the LotD. Then, as time went on, more Marines, but just the very dedicated ones, were pulled in to serve. This would explain why the LotD isn't absolutely enormous, and featuring troops from every age, with Crusade Suits mingling with Corvus, Heresy, to shiny new Gravis pattern. As seen in the short story, "Animus Malorum" by [[Laurie Goulding]], the Legion can recruit regular Space Marines to replenish their ranks as seen when Attica Centurius used the Animus Malorum artefact to absorb the souls of Astartes as replacements for the Legion's losses. On the other hand, recruitment requires the physical death of the Astartes' body and the choice is often given to stranded Astartes with the alternative being death for [[grimdark\|dereliction of duty]] to the Emperor or at the hands of the Imperium's enemies.		Another explanation for the existence of the Legion of the Damned would be that they are the spirits or ghosts of fallen Space Marines which continue to serve the Emperor even in death. This makes perfect sense, as in the book 'The Chapter's Due', Ultramarines Captain Uriel Ventris of the Fourth Company encountered the Legion while engaged in a battle with the Iron Warriors in the Tomb of Remus Ventanus on Calth. On one of the Legion's shoulder pads he saw a 'barely legible, inverted omega symbol'. This member of the Legion of the Damned was stated to have other traces of Ultramarines symbology and was heavily '''implied''' to be Remus Ventanus, a former Ultramarines captain who died ten thousand years prior. Before he and the other members of the Legion of Damned faded away, the ghost of Remus Ventanus whispered the true name of the daemon Lord M'kar and gave Uriel the dagger that was necessary for slaying the daemon. This fits with the Legion of the Damned well, as they once again saved Imperial forces from destruction. Furthermore this doesn't rule out the Fire Hawks being members of the Legion of the Damned, that would probably be the case. However they would not be the only Space Marines to be part of the Legion. Although this theory doesn't rule out time travel, it negates the need for it, as there would have been plenty of potential LotD members prior to the Fire Hawks being lost in the Warp. Later in 'Master of Mankind,' the Emperor apparently summoned fiery manifestations of Space Marines, and even Custodes as well as a [[Ferrus Manus\|giant with silver arms and a hammer]], to hold back the daemonic tide before sealing the Eternity Gate. Quite possibly, the Fire Hawks were the core group of the LotD. Then, as time went on, more Marines, but just the very dedicated ones, were pulled in to serve. This would explain why the LotD isn't absolutely enormous, and featuring troops from every age, with Crusade Suits mingling with Corvus, Heresy, to shiny new Gravis pattern. As seen in the short story, "Animus Malorum" by [[Laurie Goulding]], the Legion can recruit regular Space Marines to replenish their ranks as seen when Attica Centurius used the Animus Malorum artefact to absorb the souls of Astartes as replacements for the Legion's losses. On the other hand, recruitment requires the physical death of the Astartes' body and the choice is often given to stranded Astartes with the alternative being death for [[grimdark\|dereliction of duty]] to the Emperor or at the hands of the Imperium's enemies.

	Interestingly, there is a Chaos Space Marine Warband called the [[Warp Ghosts]] that are both time travelers and ghosts (though not solid ones, they have to possess the bodies of other marines). This does show that several of the theories about the Legion of the Damned are definitely possible.		Interestingly, there is a Chaos Space Marine Warband called the [[Warp Ghosts]] that are both time travelers and ghosts (though not solid ones, they have to possess the bodies of other marines). This does show that several of the theories about the Legion of the Damned are definitely possible.

	==Known encounters==		==Known encounters==
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	'''Nostalgia:''' - Rules for the Legion of the Damned first appeared in the Rogue Trader era (White Dwarf U.S. #99, pp. 39-42). In 2nd Edition their rules were in the general Space Marines Codex, Codex Ultramarines (pp. 74-75). There used to be [[Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Chapter_Approved/Cursed_Founding\|rules for ''entire armies'']] of Legion of the Damned way back in 3rd Edition, in the good old days of [[Chapter Approved]] which used the Space Marine codex as a base and offered variant rules for gameplay ''(much like modern day supplements... except they were only the cost of a [[White Dwarf]])''. While they were not as badass as they became in 6th, you still got an entire army of space marines with 6++ saves and the ability to deep strike. Actually, there were rules for whole armies in 2nd ed, too, published in White Dwarf 224 (August 1998), which surely saw a ''lot'' of use between then and the release of third edition in October 1998. Two months may well be a record for shortest lifetime of a GW army list.		'''Nostalgia:''' - Rules for the Legion of the Damned first appeared in the Rogue Trader era (White Dwarf U.S. #99, pp. 39-42). In 2nd Edition their rules were in the general Space Marines Codex, Codex Ultramarines (pp. 74-75). There used to be [[Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Chapter_Approved/Cursed_Founding\|rules for ''entire armies'']] of Legion of the Damned way back in 3rd Edition, in the good old days of [[Chapter Approved]] which used the Space Marine codex as a base and offered variant rules for gameplay ''(much like modern day supplements... except they were only the cost of a [[White Dwarf]])''. While they were not as badass as they became in 6th, you still got an entire army of space marines with 6++ saves and the ability to deep strike. Actually, there were rules for whole armies in 2nd ed, too, published in White Dwarf 224 (August 1998), which surely saw a ''lot'' of use between then and the release of third edition in October 1998. Two months may well be a record for shortest lifetime of a GW army list.

	We recently got a digital Legion of the Damned Codex, and like all digital codices there's barely any crunch to it. Basically you must take one squad of Damned Legionnaires, but the mandatory squad doesn't take up an elites slot. Also Damned Legionnaires are scoring, and they get an actually useful warlord traits table. That's it. Sergeant Centurius' special skull is back, and it's explicitly stated in promotional materials that it allows you to use a sergeant to represent him. It's also impossible to field them on their own since the whole army starts in reserve, unless you are playing a very specific mission against Orks, and even then you are forced to ally with Ultramarines; if you do try to field them on their own you will be forced to concede turn 1 every time unless you're playing planetstrike... but then you may still end up accidentally conceding first turn if you roll badly on reserves.		We recently got a digital Legion of the Damned Codex, and like all digital codices there's barely any crunch to it. Basically you must take one squad of Damned Legionnaires, but the mandatory squad doesn't take up an elites slot. Also Damned Legionnaires are scoring, and they get an actually useful warlord traits table. That's it. Sergeant Centurius' special skull is back, and it's explicitly stated in promotional materials that it allows you to use a sergeant to represent him. It's also impossible to field them on their own since the whole army starts in reserve, unless you are playing a very specific mission against Orks, and even then you are forced to ally with Ultramarines; if you do try to field them on their own you will be forced to concede turn 1 every time unless you're playing planetstrike... but then you may still end up accidentally conceding first turn if you roll badly on reserves.

	As of 8th Edition, Damned Legionnaires are [[Awesome\|back as an Elites choice, and you can take as many as you like]] (poor old Centurius is still missing though, unfortunately). They have narrower weapons options than Tactical Squads (they only get heat-based special and heavy weapons - Meltas, Flamers, Plasma guns, Heavy Flamers and Multimeltas) but they have three extra special rules on top of '''And They Shall Know No Fear''': All their attacks ignore cover ('''Flaming Projectiles'''); they all get a 3++ ('''Unyielding Spectres'''); and they can deploy off-board then materialize at the end of any of your movement phases (deep-strike), anywhere on the board that's more than 9" from an enemy ('''Aid Unlooked For'''). They're twice as expensive as a regular Tactical Marine at 25 rather than 13 points each, and stats-wise they've got 1" less movement, +1 Attack, and a Leadership of 10 rather than 7 (and you've still got ATSKNF on top of that).		As of 8th Edition, Damned Legionnaires are [[Awesome\|back as an Elites choice, and you can take as many as you like]] (poor old Centurius is still missing though, unfortunately). They have narrower weapons options than Tactical Squads (they only get heat-based special and heavy weapons - Meltas, Flamers, Plasma guns, Heavy Flamers and Multimeltas) but they have three extra special rules on top of '''And They Shall Know No Fear''': All their attacks ignore cover ('''Flaming Projectiles'''); they all get a 3++ ('''Unyielding Spectres'''); and they can deploy off-board then materialize at the end of any of your movement phases (deep-strike), anywhere on the board that's more than 9" from an enemy ('''Aid Unlooked For'''). They're twice as expensive as a regular Tactical Marine at 25 rather than 13 points each, and stats-wise they've got 1" less movement, +1 Attack, and a Leadership of 10 rather than 7 (and you've still got ATSKNF on top of that).
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	He begins to fade, and you shout.		He begins to fade, and you shout.

	"Who are you? How did you get here? Why did you save me?"		"Who are you? How did you get here? Why did you save me?"

	The Marine pauses, and then, for the first and last time, a Damned Legionnaire speaks.		The Marine pauses, and then, for the first and last time, a Damned Legionnaire speaks.

202.160.36.16: /* In Game */

2023-01-08T17:37:19Z

In Game

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:37, 8 January 2023
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	Thankfully, [[6th edition]] buffed them by changing the Slow and Purposeful rule: now, instead of taking Difficult Terrain tests every turn, they simply can't Run in the Shooting phase or make Sweeping Advances. [[Awesome\|Yeah, they can move the full 6 inches every turn now, just like normal marines]].		Thankfully, [[6th edition]] buffed them by changing the Slow and Purposeful rule: now, instead of taking Difficult Terrain tests every turn, they simply can't Run in the Shooting phase or make Sweeping Advances. [[Awesome\|Yeah, they can move the full 6 inches every turn now, just like normal marines]].

	In the 6E Space Marine codex , they gained the Fear (making them scarier) and Flaming Projectiles (all ranged attacks have Ignore Cover) rules. Not only that, their special weapons and heavy weapons became cheaper than the previous edition. If you give them plasma guns and plasma cannons, they can become really nasty with the Flaming Projectiles rule. Despite their fluff ("The bolters carried by the Legionnaires, though in aspect no different to those borne by other Space Marines, discharge flaming projectiles that can pierce the strongest armour"), the Flaming Projectiles special rule simply makes their shots ignore cover. With a description like that, you'd think they'd have something like the Thousand Sons, and have AP3 bolters or something.		In the 6E Space Marine codex, they gained the Fear (making them scarier) and Flaming Projectiles (all ranged attacks have Ignore Cover) rules. Not only that, their special weapons and heavy weapons became cheaper than the previous edition. If you give them plasma guns and plasma cannons, they can become really nasty with the Flaming Projectiles rule. Despite their fluff ("The bolters carried by the Legionnaires, though in aspect no different to those borne by other Space Marines, discharge flaming projectiles that can pierce the strongest armour"), the Flaming Projectiles special rule simply makes their shots ignore cover. With a description like that, you'd think they'd have something like the Thousand Sons, and have AP3 bolters or something.

	'''Nostalgia:''' - Rules for the Legion of the Damned first appeared in the Rogue Trader era (White Dwarf U.S. #99, pp. 39-42). In 2nd Edition their rules were in the general Space Marines Codex, Codex Ultramarines (pp. 74-75). There used to be [[Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Chapter_Approved/Cursed_Founding\|rules for ''entire armies'']] of Legion of the Damned way back in 3rd Edition, in the good old days of [[Chapter Approved]] which used the Space Marine codex as a base and offered variant rules for gameplay ''(much like modern day supplements... except they were only the cost of a [[White Dwarf]])''. While they were not as badass as they became in 6th, you still got an entire army of space marines with 6++ saves and the ability to deep strike. Actually, there were rules for whole armies in 2nd ed, too, published in White Dwarf 224 (August 1998), which surely saw a ''lot'' of use between then and the release of third edition in October 1998. Two months may well be a record for shortest lifetime of a GW army list.		'''Nostalgia:''' - Rules for the Legion of the Damned first appeared in the Rogue Trader era (White Dwarf U.S. #99, pp. 39-42). In 2nd Edition their rules were in the general Space Marines Codex, Codex Ultramarines (pp. 74-75). There used to be [[Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Chapter_Approved/Cursed_Founding\|rules for ''entire armies'']] of Legion of the Damned way back in 3rd Edition, in the good old days of [[Chapter Approved]] which used the Space Marine codex as a base and offered variant rules for gameplay ''(much like modern day supplements... except they were only the cost of a [[White Dwarf]])''. While they were not as badass as they became in 6th, you still got an entire army of space marines with 6++ saves and the ability to deep strike. Actually, there were rules for whole armies in 2nd ed, too, published in White Dwarf 224 (August 1998), which surely saw a ''lot'' of use between then and the release of third edition in October 1998. Two months may well be a record for shortest lifetime of a GW army list.

202.160.36.16: /* Fire Hawks */

2022-12-09T16:37:01Z

Fire Hawks

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:37, 9 December 2022
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	[[File:RogueTraderFireHawk.png\|200px\|thumbnail\|right\|Rogue trader era Fire Hawk (Note the chapter symbol).]]		[[File:RogueTraderFireHawk.png\|200px\|thumbnail\|right\|Rogue trader era Fire Hawk (Note the chapter symbol).]]
	(Note: the below has been heavily retcon'd and implied to either be no longer true, or only true if you apply liberal use of time travel. Granted this IS the Warp we're talking about...)		(Note: the below has been heavily retcon'd and implied to either be no longer true, or only true if you apply liberal use of time travel. Granted this IS the Warp we're talking about...)
	The Legion of the Damned was originally a Space Marine chapter known as the "Fire Hawks", made from the geneseed of the [[Ultramarines]] ([[A Game of Pretend\|or so they claim]]). They made a name for themselves during the Age of Apostasy, where they fought well and were rewarded with the destruction of their homeworld, Zhoros, by thermal bombs. After this, Sebastian Thor gave them a massive Great Crusade era void fortress, the ''Raptorous Rex'', in commemoration of their deeds. They became a fleet based chapter as a result.		The Legion of the Damned was originally a Space Marine chapter known as the "Fire Hawks", made from the geneseed of the [[Ultramarines]] ([[A Game of Pretend\|or so they claim]]). They made a name for themselves during the Age of Apostasy, where they fought well and were rewarded with the destruction of their homeworld, Zhoros, by thermal bombs. After this, Sebastian Thor gave them a massive Great Crusade era void fortress, the ''Raptorous Rex'', in commemoration of their deeds. They became a fleet based chapter as a result. It is believed that their Techmarines came up with the Infernum Pattern Razorback.

	Afterwards, they participated in the [[Badab War]] on the side of the loyalists, where they were reduced to about 22% effective strength (though the ''Rex'' was instrumental near the end of the war).		Afterwards, they participated in the [[Badab War]] on the side of the loyalists, where they were reduced to about 22% effective strength (though the ''Rex'' was instrumental near the end of the war).

49.184.176.125: /* Writemania */

2022-11-03T06:30:43Z

Writemania

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:30, 3 November 2022
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	As time moves ever onward in now 9th edition, the Legion of the Damned remains in Warhammer Legends purgatory with the rest of GW's out of print models from yesteryear. As expected, GW hasn't touched their Legends data sheet, so Damned Legionnaires are slowly starting to feel the pull of obsolescence as new/reworked versions of their weapons become accessible to currently supported marines (the changes to Melta weaponry in particular) while they're stuck with their past variants. Fortunately, you'll probably be able to get away with "substituting" the new versions of the weapons in since you won't be bringing these guys to any competitive matches anyways. Rather hilariously, though, the Sergeant can take a Storm Bolter, and keep his Boltgun. So this one stubborn bastard can put out 6 bolter shots a turn. If, and it's a big if, you're looking to run these guys in tournaments for whatever reason, running them as a Salamanders Successor or as Deathwatch would probably be your best bet at capturing their fluff and crunch, respectively.		As time moves ever onward in now 9th edition, the Legion of the Damned remains in Warhammer Legends purgatory with the rest of GW's out of print models from yesteryear. As expected, GW hasn't touched their Legends data sheet, so Damned Legionnaires are slowly starting to feel the pull of obsolescence as new/reworked versions of their weapons become accessible to currently supported marines (the changes to Melta weaponry in particular) while they're stuck with their past variants. Fortunately, you'll probably be able to get away with "substituting" the new versions of the weapons in since you won't be bringing these guys to any competitive matches anyways. Rather hilariously, though, the Sergeant can take a Storm Bolter, and keep his Boltgun. So this one stubborn bastard can put out 6 bolter shots a turn. If, and it's a big if, you're looking to run these guys in tournaments for whatever reason, running them as a Salamanders Successor or as Deathwatch would probably be your best bet at capturing their fluff and crunch, respectively.

	== ~~Write<ref></ref>mania~~ ==		== Writemania ==
	You are Guardswoman Sonja Larsson, 427th Valhallan. Your regiment was ordered to hold a world in the face of one of Abbadon the Despoiler's Black Crusades. Reinforcements are promised, but everyone knows they won’t make it in time.		You are Guardswoman Sonja Larsson, 427th Valhallan. Your regiment was ordered to hold a world in the face of one of Abbadon the Despoiler's Black Crusades. Reinforcements are promised, but everyone knows they won’t make it in time.
	As the Warp becomes ever more unstable, heralding the coming of the massive Chaos fleet, your regimental commander, the Colonel, loses all contact with outside forces. The 427th is cut off.		As the Warp becomes ever more unstable, heralding the coming of the massive Chaos fleet, your regimental commander, the Colonel, loses all contact with outside forces. The 427th is cut off.

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:22, 14 June 2023
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	{{Topquote\|We are the Angels of Death\|Space Marine motto}}		{{Topquote\|We are the Angels of Death\|Space Marine motto}}

			{{topquote\|A marine can't be defeated. Oh, you can kill us, but we'll just regroup in hell.\|Avatar 2}}

	They are literally undead space marines that are on warp-fire. And it's epic. Perhaps one of the most [[Awesome\|BADASS]] [[Space Marine]] Chapters. '''EVER'''		They are literally undead space marines that are on warp-fire. And it's epic. Perhaps one of the most [[Awesome\|BADASS]] [[Space Marine]] Chapters. '''EVER'''

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:56, 13 December 2025
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	They supposedly figure out where they are needed most by using the Emperor's Tarot, a deck of psychoactive crystal cards that are said to be linked directly to the Emperor. I'd imagine how frustrated they would be when they discover that Emperor's Tarot was made by [[Lorgar]] <s>(not doing a good job of proving you're a God, Emps)</s> {{BLAM}} {{BLAM\|Heresy!}}. The [[Ordo Chronos]] (what's left of it, anyway) thinks that they might actually be using time travel to do this,''(see also the '''Sollemnis''' below)'' but every time they've tried to observe the Legion directly to test this, they've been delayed by freak accidents that just so happen to keep the Ordo Chronos away long enough for the Legion to vanish by the time they show up.		They supposedly figure out where they are needed most by using the Emperor's Tarot, a deck of psychoactive crystal cards that are said to be linked directly to the Emperor. I'd imagine how frustrated they would be when they discover that Emperor's Tarot was made by [[Lorgar]] <s>(not doing a good job of proving you're a God, Emps)</s> {{BLAM}} {{BLAM\|Heresy!}}. The [[Ordo Chronos]] (what's left of it, anyway) thinks that they might actually be using time travel to do this,''(see also the '''Sollemnis''' below)'' but every time they've tried to observe the Legion directly to test this, they've been delayed by freak accidents that just so happen to keep the Ordo Chronos away long enough for the Legion to vanish by the time they show up.

	Another theory that links to the time travel one is that they're Marines from an alternate even more grim and dark timeline, or as one anon puts it "in the grim grim darkness of the far far further future, there are only flaming-time-~~travelling~~-teleporting armor-ignoring-zombie-space-marines-ghosts" sent back to stop whatever bad is happening to prevent their future from ever happening in the first place.		Another theory that links to the time travel one is that they're Marines from an alternate even more grim and dark timeline, or as one anon puts it "in the grim grim darkness of the far far further future, there are only flaming-time-traveling-teleporting armor-ignoring-zombie-space-marines-ghosts" sent back to stop whatever bad is happening to prevent their future from ever happening in the first place.
	[[File:Damned Legionaire and Filthy Eldar Xeno.jpg\|800px\|thumbnail\|right\|Legionaries are bros. End of story. Don't believe in the hypocrisy of what others say about them.]]		[[File:Damned Legionaire and Filthy Eldar Xeno.jpg\|800px\|thumbnail\|right\|Legionaries are bros. End of story. Don't believe in the hypocrisy of what others say about them.]]
	In other words, [[Awesome\|they're erasing themselves from existence to save humanity]].		In other words, [[Awesome\|they're erasing themselves from existence to save humanity]].
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	The warp is often described as an ocean, with currents, storms, eddies and sea (Warp) creatures. The currents themselves are allegedly 'random' and they can block off systems from Warp travel due to storms or other anomalies, slow down ships and even displace them or swallow them entirely. We also know that they can send a ship to a different time; there are some references to ships arriving at their destination before they even left etc.		The warp is often described as an ocean, with currents, storms, eddies and sea (Warp) creatures. The currents themselves are allegedly 'random' and they can block off systems from Warp travel due to storms or other anomalies, slow down ships and even displace them or swallow them entirely. We also know that they can send a ship to a different time; there are some references to ships arriving at their destination before they even left etc.

	1. The reason that the Warp's currents are considered random is because no one has the sensor capacity to analyze the activity and patterns of the Warp. To be fair, such an ~~endeavour~~ would require a huge number of Warp sensitive sensors placed across the entire galaxy and would probably need many years/decades/centuries of data collection.		1. The reason that the Warp's currents are considered random is because no one has the sensor capacity to analyze the activity and patterns of the Warp. To be fair, such an endeavor would require a huge number of Warp sensitive sensors placed across the entire galaxy and would probably need many years/decades/centuries of data collection.

	2. If the Warp is like an ocean as so many describe it, then at least some of the currents should be predictable and constant, like our currents on Earth. Now, taking this a step further, even if 99.9999% of the currents are forward-moving in time, somewhere in the ridiculous amount of space in the galaxy there is a high probability that there must be constant/predictable currents that take ships back through time.		2. If the Warp is like an ocean as so many describe it, then at least some of the currents should be predictable and constant, like our currents on Earth. Now, taking this a step further, even if 99.9999% of the currents are forward-moving in time, somewhere in the ridiculous amount of space in the galaxy there is a high probability that there must be constant/predictable currents that take ships back through time.

	3. The next question is, how far back in time could you go? I believe the maximum limit would be to the origination of the Warp current that takes you back in time. Unfortunately, there'd be no real way to tell how far back you could travel until you tried and found out. Another problem is that it still takes time (in your personal frame of reference), to go back in time. For example, you might spend a year ~~travelling~~ in the Warp current to go back ten years in real time, or (!) ten years in the Warp only to go back one year in real time. The ratio itself wouldn't be known until the current was used and even then it might not be constant.		3. The next question is, how far back in time could you go? I believe the maximum limit would be to the origination of the Warp current that takes you back in time. Unfortunately, there'd be no real way to tell how far back you could travel until you tried and found out. Another problem is that it still takes time (in your personal frame of reference), to go back in time. For example, you might spend a year traveling in the Warp current to go back ten years in real time, or (!) ten years in the Warp only to go back one year in real time. The ratio itself wouldn't be known until the current was used and even then it might not be constant.

	'''One more step'''		'''One more step'''
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	The Fire Hawks Chapter was lost in 963 M.41 and became the LOTD after that event. Look below at 'Known Encounters' and you can see that some form of Time Travel has taken place because they've been active since before the Fire Hawks were officially lost.		The Fire Hawks Chapter was lost in 963 M.41 and became the LOTD after that event. Look below at 'Known Encounters' and you can see that some form of Time Travel has taken place because they've been active since before the Fire Hawks were officially lost.

	I believe that the LOTD has found a constant current that can transport them back in time. The reason why and how they can appear at the exact time and places where they are needed is because to them it has already occurred and they are simply ~~travelling~~ back in time to moments where their limited numbers can change the course of history for the benefit of the Imperium of Man.		I believe that the LOTD has found a constant current that can transport them back in time. The reason why and how they can appear at the exact time and places where they are needed is because to them it has already occurred and they are simply traveling back in time to moments where their limited numbers can change the course of history for the benefit of the Imperium of Man.

	'''Now you're wondering, why don't they go back to the Horus Heresy and prevent everything bad from happening Etc. Etc.? There are a couple reasons potentially as to why not:		'''Now you're wondering, why don't they go back to the Horus Heresy and prevent everything bad from happening Etc. Etc.? There are a couple reasons potentially as to why not:
	~~'''~~

	1. The Current itself may not go that far back.		1. The Current itself may not go that far back.

	2. The amount of time they would have to spend in the current to go that far back may not be feasible. We don't know how long it takes them to go back 1 year in real time. For example, for all we know it could take them 5 years of ~~travelling~~ to go back 1 year, and therefore they'd have to live to at least 50,000 years old to make it back to the HH.		2. The amount of time they would have to spend in the current to go that far back may not be feasible. We don't know how long it takes them to go back 1 year in real time. For example, for all we know it could take them 5 years of traveling to go back 1 year, and therefore they'd have to live to at least 50,000 years old to make it back to the HH.

	3. Every trip back in time alters history. The further back they go the more they will effect. They are probably wary of going too far back in time, just in case they somehow prevent their chapter's formation and their very existence, and everything they have ever accomplished. It basically risks too much. This makes even more sense considering that the Heresy was the cause of the Space Marines being split into Chapters to begin with, so without it, there probably wouldn't have even been Fire Hawks to begin with.		3. Every trip back in time alters history. The further back they go the more they will effect. They are probably wary of going too far back in time, just in case they somehow prevent their chapter's formation and their very existence, and everything they have ever accomplished. It basically risks too much. This makes even more sense considering that the Heresy was the cause of the Space Marines being split into Chapters to begin with, so without it, there probably wouldn't have even been Fire Hawks to begin with.
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	Interestingly, there is a Chaos Space Marine Warband called the [[Warp Ghosts]] that are both time travelers and ghosts (though not solid ones, they have to possess the bodies of other marines). This does show that several of the theories about the Legion of the Damned are definitely possible.		Interestingly, there is a Chaos Space Marine Warband called the [[Warp Ghosts]] that are both time travelers and ghosts (though not solid ones, they have to possess the bodies of other marines). This does show that several of the theories about the Legion of the Damned are definitely possible.

			==== Cool Story Bro ====
			But [https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1mvg2ir/reminder_the_warp_is_explicitly_stated_to_not/ the Warp doesn't follow logic like that]. This is pretty explicit - the Warp is a place where sometimes 2 + 2 = 5. Narrative causality (legends told of the Angels of Death become actual spirits embodying astartes, stories told of the Legion of the Damned make it stronger and more frequent) has more evidence than the Warp displaying anything resembling its own laws of physics like currents.

	==Known encounters==		==Known encounters==