List of 40K Cheese - Revision history

imported>Administrator: 463 revisions imported

2023-06-21T17:09:38Z

463 revisions imported

← Older revision	Revision as of 17:09, 21 June 2023
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2023-06-19T02:34:17Z

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73.121.20.129: /* Space Marines */

2023-06-01T04:59:25Z

Space Marines

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:59, 1 June 2023
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	*Armour of Contempt: Dear fucking god, this rule. Introduced with the quarterly balance dataslates, this rule makes ALL Space Marines (as well as the Sisters of Battle, CSM, and Imperial Guard <s>Leman Russes</s> VEHICLES) reduce the AP of any attack they suffer by 1 unless they're equipped with a Storm Shield. Now, while the Sisters and Guard tanks did need some extra protection, being respectively merely T3 1W models protected by only a 3+ save and fairly fragile without baked in Invuln saves, this was glaringly egregious on every flavor of Space Marine, especially now that they were T4 with minimum two wounds each. This made even mainstay anti-marine weapons like plasma guns worth less now that the once valuable AP-2 would only make them roll a 4+ save and made any number of AP-1 weapons pointless. Needless to say, that with the typically ubiquitous number of marine players out there, this will annoy you to no end.		*Armour of Contempt: Dear fucking god, this rule. Introduced with the quarterly balance dataslates, this rule makes ALL Space Marines (as well as the Sisters of Battle, CSM, and Imperial Guard <s>Leman Russes</s> VEHICLES) reduce the AP of any attack they suffer by 1 unless they're equipped with a Storm Shield. Now, while the Sisters and Guard tanks did need some extra protection, being respectively merely T3 1W models protected by only a 3+ save and fairly fragile without baked in Invuln saves, this was glaringly egregious on every flavor of Space Marine, especially now that they were T4 with minimum two wounds each. This made even mainstay anti-marine weapons like plasma guns worth less now that the once valuable AP-2 would only make them roll a 4+ save and made any number of AP-1 weapons pointless. Needless to say, that with the typically ubiquitous number of marine players out there, this will annoy you to no end.
	**It wasn't until the Q1 2023 dataslate that the writers realized how much of a drag this rule became, as it was summarily scrubbed from existence. This means that the arms race to beat this utterly busted rule has drastically slowed down...with the exception of the Leagues, who have this built into their codex.		**It wasn't until the Q1 2023 dataslate that the writers realized how much of a drag this rule became, as it was summarily scrubbed from existence. This means that the arms race to beat this utterly busted rule has drastically slowed down...with the exception of the Leagues, who have this built into their codex.
			** The most frustrating part of this debacle is that spess mehreens legitimately did need a significant buff, being a peasant-tier army for almost all of 9th. But fucking over every army that's built around AP-1 attacks because GW couldn't get the balance remotely right the first time was an incredibly fail way to go about it.

	===Necrons===		===Necrons===

2603:6011:A500:19AD:15A2:8596:F66D:A35C: /* Fermented Lactation Derivatives */

2023-04-29T21:47:35Z

Fermented Lactation Derivatives

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:47, 29 April 2023
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	*'''Dark Eldar''': ''Extra'' Sharp 400 Year Old Cheddar		*'''Dark Eldar''': ''Extra'' Sharp 400 Year Old Cheddar
	*'''Necrons''': [https://www.businessinsider.com/egypt-2600-year-old-pots-cheese-found-at-pharaohs-necropolis-2022-9 Ḥlm (Halōm, known in modern times as Halloumi)]		*'''Necrons''': [https://www.businessinsider.com/egypt-2600-year-old-pots-cheese-found-at-pharaohs-necropolis-2022-9 Ḥlm (Halōm, known in modern times as Halloumi)]
	*'''Orks''': <s>Blue Cheese</s> <span style='color:green;font-size:115%'>WE’Z NOT BLUE YA ZOGGIN GITS! </span> But you are fungus, which is what's making it blue.		*'''Orks''': <s>Blue Cheese</s> <span style='color:green;font-size:115%'>WE’Z NOT BLUE YA ZOGGIN GITS! </span> <s>But you are fungus, which is what's making it blue.</s> {{KRUMP}} {{KRUMP\|YA GITZ OUGHTA LEARN DAT WEZ DA GREENSKINS! DAT CHEEZ BE GREEN!}}
	*'''Sisters of Battle''': Smoked Gruyère		*'''Sisters of Battle''': Smoked Gruyère
	*'''Ultramarines''': Roquefort		*'''Ultramarines''': Roquefort

73.68.28.13: /* Fermented Lactation Derivatives */

2023-03-08T21:44:50Z

Fermented Lactation Derivatives

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:44, 8 March 2023
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	*'''Dark Eldar''': ''Extra'' Sharp 400 Year Old Cheddar		*'''Dark Eldar''': ''Extra'' Sharp 400 Year Old Cheddar
	*'''Necrons''': [https://www.businessinsider.com/egypt-2600-year-old-pots-cheese-found-at-pharaohs-necropolis-2022-9 Ḥlm (Halōm, known in modern times as Halloumi)]		*'''Necrons''': [https://www.businessinsider.com/egypt-2600-year-old-pots-cheese-found-at-pharaohs-necropolis-2022-9 Ḥlm (Halōm, known in modern times as Halloumi)]
	*'''Orks''': <s>Blue Cheese</s> <span style='color:green;font-size:115%'>WE’Z NOT BLUE YA ZOGGIN GITS! </span>		*'''Orks''': <s>Blue Cheese</s> <span style='color:green;font-size:115%'>WE’Z NOT BLUE YA ZOGGIN GITS! </span> But you are fungus, which is what's making it blue.
	*'''Sisters of Battle''': Smoked Gruyère		*'''Sisters of Battle''': Smoked Gruyère
	*'''Ultramarines''': Roquefort		*'''Ultramarines''': Roquefort

24.150.90.89: /* Drukhari */

2023-03-08T19:50:19Z

Drukhari

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:50, 8 March 2023
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	*Similarly to Admech above, Drukhari were seen as an overwhelmingly powerful army when their 9th codex came out. Immediately they saw nerfs in later FAQs to whittle them down to size. This included some points hikes, most notably to stop the endless Raider spam, as well to Wyches and all the standard HQ choices. Meanwhile, Ravagers and Talos were stripped of the {{W40kKeyword\|CORE}} keyword to limit buff stacking on those heavy hitters.		*Similarly to Admech above, Drukhari were seen as an overwhelmingly powerful army when their 9th codex came out. Immediately they saw nerfs in later FAQs to whittle them down to size. This included some points hikes, most notably to stop the endless Raider spam, as well to Wyches and all the standard HQ choices. Meanwhile, Ravagers and Talos were stripped of the {{W40kKeyword\|CORE}} keyword to limit buff stacking on those heavy hitters.

	*Succubus: Even without the following cheese, this commander was already one of the most cost-effective close combat HQs in the game, for only 60 points. However, when combined with rules provided by the Warzone Charadon Expansion (basically $60 Day 1 Drukhari DLC), things went ~~off~~ completely off the rails. The Succubus could churn out a staggering an average of 20 S4 Ap -1 attacks on a charge, with a max of 42, when equiped with Razor Flails and the new ~~Competative~~ Edge Warlord trait. Edge allowed the Succubus to make another attack for each attack that failed to deal damage. Razor flails would double her attacks, an effect which would effectively be resolved twice. Eventually patched out by an FAQ a month or so after.		*Succubus: Even without the following cheese, this commander was already one of the most cost-effective close combat HQs in the game, for only 60 points. However, when combined with rules provided by the Warzone Charadon Expansion (basically $60 Day 1 Drukhari DLC), things went completely off the rails. The Succubus could churn out a staggering average of 20 S4 Ap -1 attacks on a charge, with a max of 42, when equiped with Razor Flails and the new Competitive Edge Warlord trait. Edge allowed the Succubus to make another attack for each attack that failed to deal damage. Razor flails would double her attacks, an effect which would effectively be resolved twice. Eventually patched out by an FAQ a month or so after.

	*Dark Technomancer + liquifier guns. DT allowed any ranged weapon to optionally buffed with a +1 to wound rolls and +1 D, in exchange for a "Gets Hot" mechanic where a role of 1 to hit would deal the bearer a mortal wound. The problem? Liqifier guns are flamers and so auto-hit their targets, totally negating the downside. Whoopsie. Thankfully an FAQ prevented liquifiers being buffed by DT in June 2021.		*Dark Technomancer + liquifier guns. DT allowed any ranged weapon to optionally buffed with a +1 to wound rolls and +1 D, in exchange for a "Gets Hot" mechanic where a role of 1 to hit would deal the bearer a mortal wound. The problem? Liqifier guns are flamers and so auto-hit their targets, totally negating the downside. Whoopsie. Thankfully an FAQ prevented liquifiers being buffed by DT in June 2021.

24.150.90.89: /* Imperial Guard */

2023-03-08T19:43:23Z

Imperial Guard

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:43, 8 March 2023
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	*All of the above implies you've gone basic bitch Cadia. One of the casualties of the 9th Codex is all the variation of the various regiments; you have slightly more relics than a Custom Sept or Dynasty, but nowhere near in total. Some Regiments have had their specialties locked to KEYWORD stratagems that are part of your chosen doctrine, but theoretically any army can use all the stratagems [[Fail\|but limited only on specific KEYWORD specialists]].		*All of the above implies you've gone basic bitch Cadia. One of the casualties of the 9th Codex is all the variation of the various regiments; you have slightly more relics than a Custom Sept or Dynasty, but nowhere near in total. Some Regiments have had their specialties locked to KEYWORD stratagems that are part of your chosen doctrine, but theoretically any army can use all the stratagems [[Fail\|but limited only on specific KEYWORD specialists]].
	**But remember the boys [[Cadia\|who are so]] <s>special</s> '''[[Imperial Guard\|badass]]''' that they can pick their own special snowflake traits? Yeah, it's the Kasrkin again. Not only are they targetable for all CADIAN strats, they're also often specifically worded to be able to do some Regiment/Tempestus specific traits, like UMWR6 are MWs (tempestus only before) and better AP. Whatever they cant do intrinsically can be given as the extra trait.		**But remember the boys [[Cadia\|who are so]] <s>special</s> '''[[Imperial Guard\|badass]]''' that they can pick their own special snowflake traits? Yeah, it's the Kasrkin again. Not only are they targetable for all CADIAN strats, they're also often specifically worded to be able to do some Regiment/Tempestus specific traits, like UMWR6 are MWs (tempestus only before) and better AP. Whatever they cant do intrinsically can be given as the extra trait.
	**Give the Kasrkin MECHANISED INFANTRY and they can pop out of transports after it moves; the keyword gives them access to the ARMOURED FIST strat for reroll all wound rolls. All that cheese above with AP and Wound Rolls gets even cheesier when you reroll all wounds. And you can pop them back inside the Transport just for fun. This also means you have wasted all your CP. But		**Give the Kasrkin MECHANISED INFANTRY and they can pop out of transports after it moves; the keyword gives them access to the ARMOURED FIST strat for reroll all wound rolls. All that cheese above with AP and Wound Rolls gets even cheesier when you reroll all wounds. And you can pop them back inside the Transport just for fun. This also means you have wasted all your CP. But whatever they've fired on is gone.
	*As a Guard Player, you have the Supreme Commander that gives you an extra CP, a trait for regaining CP on a 5+, another HQ that lets you CP reroll twice a phase, a psyker that farms CP, and a relic to make your opponent pay more CP.		*As a Guard Player, you have the Supreme Commander that gives you an extra CP, a trait for regaining CP on a 5+, another HQ that lets you CP reroll twice a phase, a psyker that farms CP, and a relic to make your opponent pay more CP.
	**Does any of this make up for the fact that you're penalized the most for taking more than 1 detachment? No. Is this funny and let's you fuck with the opponent? Yes.		**Does any of this make up for the fact that you're penalized the most for taking more than 1 detachment? No. Is this funny and let's you fuck with the opponent? Yes.

24.150.90.89: /* 9th Edition */

2023-03-08T19:41:27Z

9th Edition

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:41, 8 March 2023
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	9th Edition is a clusterfuck even worse than 8th, managing to piss off oldfags and newfags alike. GW cockgobblers will point to "tHe PaNdEMiC" as the reason for the shitty state of 9th, but it's really the fact that GW attempted to make ''every faction'' powerful in its own special way, while still conforming to some general "rules". Instead of reimplementing Universal Special Rules like they did in HH 2nd, all the codices just follow some general guidelines, like Chapter Master Equivalents needing to pick a specific unit for full rerolls, removing most 3++ invulns, removing fight twice, making all dice abilities "unmodified" so you couldn't stack bonuses to hit with cheese, etc. In ''general'', most of the early armies followed these rules, leading players to feel marginally hopeful in the first half of 9th. Still skewed towards Space Marines, but still generally ok.		9th Edition is a clusterfuck even worse than 8th, managing to piss off oldfags and newfags alike. GW cockgobblers will point to "tHe PaNdEMiC" as the reason for the shitty state of 9th, but it's really the fact that GW attempted to make ''every faction'' powerful in its own special way, while still conforming to some general "rules". Instead of reimplementing Universal Special Rules like they did in HH 2nd, all the codices just follow some general guidelines, like Chapter Master Equivalents needing to pick a specific unit for full rerolls, removing most 3++ invulns, removing fight twice, making all dice abilities "unmodified" so you couldn't stack bonuses to hit with cheese, etc. In ''general'', most of the early armies followed these rules, leading players to feel marginally hopeful in the first half of 9th. Still skewed towards Space Marines, but still generally ok.

	Then they immediately fucked it up after the Tau. See, after getting a lot of the Imperium factions out of the way, they now had to fix the Xenos factions, which were underperforming in game, so underperforming saleswise. Fixing them would require an overhaul of their stats and weapons to be more in line with the new Primaris 2A 2W and marine Gunboats they now faced. The most obvious examples are the universal inflating of AP and the bumped up wounds of Tyranid Monsters. Needed, but interfered with the Supremacy of their Special Snowflakes, necessitating AOC to fix the mess they made in the first place. AoC feelsgood.jpg when you have it, but is completely annoying when you don't, or when you're an early codex that only got AP1 weapons.		Then they immediately fucked it up after the Tau. See, after getting a lot of the Imperium factions out of the way, they now had to fix the Xenos factions, which were underperforming in game, so underperforming saleswise. Fixing them would require an overhaul of their stats and weapons to be more in line with the new Primaris 2A 2W and marine Gunboats they now faced. The most obvious examples are the universal inflating of AP and the bumped up wounds of Tyranid Monsters. Needed, but interfered with the Supremacy of their Special Snowflakes, necessitating AOC to fix the mess they made in the first place. AoC feelsgood.jpg when you have it, but is completely annoying when you don't, or when you're an early codex that only got AP1 weapons. AoC proved to be so oppressive that the 2023 Q1 Balance dataslate removed that rule from the game.

	They also had to play within the "hard rules" (Like you can only reduce/increase rolls by 1) and overcomplicated bullshit they put into the general 9E rules. So their solution? Ignore rules and precedent established in previous books, and make the newer books the ''exception'' to the rules. Chaos Knights can both reduce the hit roll ''and'' the B/WS giving them an effective -2; Tau railguns can ignore invulns; Tyranids can leapfrog psychic and perform both Psychic Actions and Spells; the stupid amount of variation of "fight first, fight last, they don't have the benefit of charging," wording that requires a fucking flowchart to make sense of; a bunch of units had "they cant be wounded on 1-3s or more than 3 times a phase," so obviously they needed to add characters and relics that ''ignored that rule''. The list goes on and on, but '''tl;dr''' the power creep in this edition is fucked, on top of the Core Rules you need the addendum and '''Rare Rules''' FAQs to bridge the gap between the 2020 state of the game and the current clusterfuck.		They also had to play within the "hard rules" (Like you can only reduce/increase rolls by 1) and overcomplicated bullshit they put into the general 9E rules. So their solution? Ignore rules and precedent established in previous books, and make the newer books the ''exception'' to the rules. Chaos Knights can both reduce the hit roll ''and'' the B/WS giving them an effective -2; Tau railguns can ignore invulns; Tyranids can leapfrog psychic and perform both Psychic Actions and Spells; the stupid amount of variation of "fight first, fight last, they don't have the benefit of charging," wording that requires a fucking flowchart to make sense of; a bunch of units had "they cant be wounded on 1-3s or more than 3 times a phase," so obviously they needed to add characters and relics that ''ignored that rule''. The list goes on and on, but '''tl;dr''' the power creep in this edition is fucked, on top of the Core Rules you need the addendum and '''Rare Rules''' FAQs to bridge the gap between the 2020 state of the game and the current clusterfuck.

1d4chan>MiaoKobayashisDragonMaid: /* Imperial Guard */

2023-02-27T15:48:47Z

Imperial Guard

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:48, 27 February 2023
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	*Most armies have a limitation on commanders, top ranking HQ’s, or overall powerhouses like a Daemon Prince. Codex Chaos Daemons lacks this restraint for any HQ; meaning any player with the points and funds to field greater daemons will have no trouble making a monster mash list. Running multiple Keepers of Secret in addition to Be’Lakor is not only surprisingly tanky, but combining that with the Warp Locus can lead to very devastating Alpha Strikes.		*Most armies have a limitation on commanders, top ranking HQ’s, or overall powerhouses like a Daemon Prince. Codex Chaos Daemons lacks this restraint for any HQ; meaning any player with the points and funds to field greater daemons will have no trouble making a monster mash list. Running multiple Keepers of Secret in addition to Be’Lakor is not only surprisingly tanky, but combining that with the Warp Locus can lead to very devastating Alpha Strikes.

	===[[Warhammer 40,000/Tactics/~~Imperial_Guard~~\|Imperial Guard]]===		===[[Warhammer 40,000/9th Edition Tactics/Imperial Guard\|Imperial Guard]]===
	*After a long arduous journey of being the only army with 8th edition rules, our friendly neighborhood treadhead has finally been bestowed abuse-worthy cheese. With the roll of 2 dice, Primaris Psykers can easily give any unit a trans-hit effect, while Cadian units (which are now available for all regiments) can easily pop a stratagem that gives them the transhuman effect as well. What could possibly go wrong?		*After a long arduous journey of being the only army with 8th edition rules, our friendly neighborhood treadhead has finally been bestowed abuse-worthy cheese. With the roll of 2 dice, Primaris Psykers can easily give any unit a trans-hit effect, while Cadian units (which are now available for all regiments) can easily pop a stratagem that gives them the transhuman effect as well. What could possibly go wrong?
	*'''Kasrkin.''' That’s how. Given that they’re the fresh hot ""new"" unit of the Guard, they were given a whole bunch of rules that [[Games Workshop\|invalidated the Tempestus Scions that replaced them]].		*'''Kasrkin.''' That’s how. Given that they’re the fresh hot ""new"" unit of the Guard, they were given a whole bunch of rules that [[Games Workshop\|invalidated the Tempestus Scions that replaced them]].

1d4chan>MiaoKobayashisDragonMaid: /* Imperial Guard */

2023-02-27T15:47:12Z

Imperial Guard

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:47, 27 February 2023
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	*Most armies have a limitation on commanders, top ranking HQ’s, or overall powerhouses like a Daemon Prince. Codex Chaos Daemons lacks this restraint for any HQ; meaning any player with the points and funds to field greater daemons will have no trouble making a monster mash list. Running multiple Keepers of Secret in addition to Be’Lakor is not only surprisingly tanky, but combining that with the Warp Locus can lead to very devastating Alpha Strikes.		*Most armies have a limitation on commanders, top ranking HQ’s, or overall powerhouses like a Daemon Prince. Codex Chaos Daemons lacks this restraint for any HQ; meaning any player with the points and funds to field greater daemons will have no trouble making a monster mash list. Running multiple Keepers of Secret in addition to Be’Lakor is not only surprisingly tanky, but combining that with the Warp Locus can lead to very devastating Alpha Strikes.

	===Imperial Guard===		===[[Warhammer 40,000/Tactics/Imperial_Guard\|Imperial Guard]]===
	*After a long arduous journey of being the only army with 8th edition rules, our friendly neighborhood treadhead has finally been bestowed abuse-worthy cheese. With the roll of 2 dice, Primaris Psykers can easily give any unit a trans-hit effect, while Cadian units (which are now available for all regiments) can easily pop a stratagem that gives them the transhuman effect as well. What could possibly go wrong?		*After a long arduous journey of being the only army with 8th edition rules, our friendly neighborhood treadhead has finally been bestowed abuse-worthy cheese. With the roll of 2 dice, Primaris Psykers can easily give any unit a trans-hit effect, while Cadian units (which are now available for all regiments) can easily pop a stratagem that gives them the transhuman effect as well. What could possibly go wrong?
	*'''Kasrkin.''' That’s how. Given that they’re the fresh hot ""new"" unit of the Guard, they were given a whole bunch of rules that [[Games Workshop\|invalidated the Tempestus Scions that replaced them]].		*'''Kasrkin.''' That’s how. Given that they’re the fresh hot ""new"" unit of the Guard, they were given a whole bunch of rules that [[Games Workshop\|invalidated the Tempestus Scions that replaced them]].