List of Mary Sues - Revision history

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2026-05-20T16:02:12Z

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	There are too many ~~fucking~~ [[Mary Sues]] in our games and fiction. We know it, and we love to complain about it, because it makes us feel a little better to call a spade a shovel. The original purpose of this list is to provide examples so the phenomenon can be studied, identified and - as a result of the latter - avoided.		There are too many [[Mary Sues]] in our games and fiction. We know it, and we love to complain about it, because it makes us feel a little better to call a spade a shovel. The original purpose of this list is to provide examples so the phenomenon can be studied, identified and - as a result of the latter - avoided.

	(Note: please post Mary Sues in alphabetical order, so they don't fight about who's the better Mary-Sue. Also, this is about fictional characters, so while Canon Sues are acceptable, no real-life examples (even if there is such person named <s>Mary Sue AKA the Scientology founder's wife</s> I'm just adding that for fun). For the sake of peace, religious figures [and possibly mythological characters; particularly when they're from original mythologies] are real-life examples. Also, any characters added to the list without justifying reasons will be removed from this page. If you're going to add a race, please use the list below this one.		(Note: please post Mary Sues in alphabetical order, so they don't fight about who's the better Mary-Sue. Also, this is about fictional characters, so while Canon Sues are acceptable, no real-life examples (even if there is such person named <s>Mary Sue AKA the Scientology founder's wife</s> I'm just adding that for fun). For the sake of peace, religious figures [and possibly mythological characters; particularly when they're from original mythologies] are real-life examples. Also, any characters added to the list without justifying reasons will be removed from this page. If you're going to add a race, please use the list below this one.

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2023-06-21T17:09:45Z

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1d4chan>Flutist: /* Mary Sues Case Studies */

2023-06-17T18:41:55Z

Mary Sues Case Studies

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	*Ramsay Bolton (show version): Oh good fucking God, where to start with this particular Villain Sue? Well, for one, he manages to take on twenty of the best Ironborn warriors, who were all heavily armed and armored, while not just unarmored but SHIRTLESS and armed with nothing but a kitchen knife and a mace, and SOMEHOW kicks their asses. Then, much later, he is shown to completely annihilate the battle-hardened Stormlander army led by Stannis Baratheon, the greatest military commander in Westeros, with nothing but cavalry, while the previous episodes had established that Ramsay is a tactically inept moron. (This can also tie in with the fact that the writers of the show seriously fucked over Stannis from "stern-but-honorable competent tactical genius" into "greedy, fanatical dumbass"). Finally, he is constantly shown to get his way no matter how stupidly contrived it seems to the viewer, arguably the worst case being marrying and deflowering Sansa Stark by raping her and getting the killing blow on fan-favorite giant Wun-Wun. His Sueness ends with his face getting caved in by Jon and fed to his own hounds by Sansa.		*Ramsay Bolton (show version): Oh good fucking God, where to start with this particular Villain Sue? Well, for one, he manages to take on twenty of the best Ironborn warriors, who were all heavily armed and armored, while not just unarmored but SHIRTLESS and armed with nothing but a kitchen knife and a mace, and SOMEHOW kicks their asses. Then, much later, he is shown to completely annihilate the battle-hardened Stormlander army led by Stannis Baratheon, the greatest military commander in Westeros, with nothing but cavalry, while the previous episodes had established that Ramsay is a tactically inept moron. (This can also tie in with the fact that the writers of the show seriously fucked over Stannis from "stern-but-honorable competent tactical genius" into "greedy, fanatical dumbass"). Finally, he is constantly shown to get his way no matter how stupidly contrived it seems to the viewer, arguably the worst case being marrying and deflowering Sansa Stark by raping her and getting the killing blow on fan-favorite giant Wun-Wun. His Sueness ends with his face getting caved in by Jon and fed to his own hounds by Sansa.

	*Rey AKA Ma-Rey Sue from the [[Star Wars]]. From the release of the first movie, she already caught some backlash among the old guards of Star Wars who consider her a self-insert Mary Sue with a feminist agenda. Leaving aside the politics, the resulting trilogy and related events have only confirmed Rey’s Mary Sue-dom. Reasons from the first movie alone include Rey showing [[What\|a better knowledge of the Millennium Falcon’s inner workings than then Han Solo and Chewbacca]] who’d maintained the ship for decades where she had it for less than a week, being offered a job by Han shortly after meeting him despite him and Chewie being sufficient crew for the Falcon and Han being a cynic who barely knows her (like something right out of "A Trekkie's Tale"), Rey suddenly being a [[Wat\|powerful Force user who can resist a trained Force-user's mind probe]] despite no previous mention of her being Force sensitive and [[Bullshit\|Rey performing said Jedi mind trick while in captivity almost immediately after learning she's Force Sensitive]] despite the fact that performing said trick is known to be difficult to master (~~to be fair,~~ Rey had just been in telepathic contact with somebody who knew how to pull off a Mind Trick, and wasn't as good at telepathic interrogation as he thought he was). Rey’s only character flaw is recklessness, and while it does get her captured by the villains in the first and third films, this is offset by Rey getting rescued unharmed both times by luck/plot armour, which is a Sue-ish trait (at least Luke suffered actual setbacks and injuries – such as a severed hand and failing to save Han from Boba Fett). Furthering Rey’s status of Mary Sue is the “creator's relationship to the character” part, with several of the filmmakers either pulling new explanations out of their asses to explain Rey’s abilities (or retconning them, such as the Force “cheat-coding” and the “Force Dyad”) or attacking anyone who didn’t like the character by tarring them with the same negative brushes ([[SJW\|accusations of sexism got lots of usage]]). The third film threw in the big twist that Rey is ''really'' Rey '''Palpatine'''. You heard right, Rey is literally Emperor Palpatine's ''granddaughter'', almost as if they're trying to one-up Luke’s relation to Vader. The third film also ends with Rey taking the last name “Skywalker” while Luke and Leia’s force ghosts look on approvingly. For a more comprehensive coverage on why Rey is a Mary Sue, look up the results of the Mary Sue Litmus test on the discussion page.		*Rey AKA Ma-Rey Sue from the [[Star Wars]]. From the release of the first movie, she already caught some backlash among the old guards of Star Wars who consider her a self-insert Mary Sue with a feminist agenda. Leaving aside the politics, the resulting trilogy and related events have only confirmed Rey’s Mary Sue-dom. Reasons from the first movie alone include Rey showing [[What\|a better knowledge of the Millennium Falcon’s inner workings than then Han Solo and Chewbacca]] who’d maintained the ship for decades where she had it for less than a week, being offered a job by Han shortly after meeting him despite him and Chewie being sufficient crew for the Falcon and Han being a cynic who barely knows her (like something right out of "A Trekkie's Tale"), Rey suddenly being a [[Wat\|powerful Force user who can resist a trained Force-user's mind probe]] despite no previous mention of her being Force sensitive and [[Bullshit\|Rey performing said Jedi mind trick while in captivity almost immediately after learning she's Force Sensitive]] despite the fact that performing said trick is known to be difficult to master (the explanation that Rey had just been in telepathic contact with somebody who knew how to pull off a Mind Trick, and wasn't as good at telepathic interrogation as he thought he was, is unbelievably stupid, because that would be the best teaching method in the Galaxy with every Force-user utilizing it). She can also pull out new Force abilities from her sleeve, like Force healing (yeah, Anakin would have liked to have some of that, wouldn't he?). Rey’s only character flaw is recklessness, and while it does get her captured by the villains in the first and third films, this is offset by Rey getting rescued unharmed both times by luck/plot armour, which is a Sue-ish trait (at least Luke suffered actual setbacks and injuries – such as a severed hand and failing to save Han from Boba Fett). Furthering Rey’s status of Mary Sue is the “creator's relationship to the character” part, with several of the filmmakers either pulling new explanations out of their asses to explain Rey’s abilities (or retconning them, such as the Force “cheat-coding” and the “Force Dyad”) or attacking anyone who didn’t like the character by tarring them with the same negative brushes ([[SJW\|accusations of sexism got lots of usage]]). The third film threw in the big twist that Rey is ''really'' Rey '''Palpatine'''. You heard right, Rey is literally Emperor Palpatine's ''granddaughter'', almost as if they're trying to one-up Luke’s relation to Vader. The third film also ends with Rey taking the last name “Skywalker” while Luke and Leia’s force ghosts look on approvingly. For a more comprehensive coverage on why Rey is a Mary Sue, look up the results of the Mary Sue Litmus test on the discussion page.
	** While it could be argued that Luke and Anakin are just as ridiculous, they fit easier the form of tropes they are. Luke, being the most classic [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheHero Hero] ever, is quickly established as good at most things he does, culminating in flying an X-Wing through the Death Star trench and making an one-in-a-million shot to destroy the Death Star, and this is less than a week before he was just a backwater farmboy, albeit one who is outright stated to be both a decent pilot and skilled shot. Though while Luke used the Force untrained like Rey did, his only feats were enhancing skills he already had and developed; a bit of a stretch, but more plausible than pulling new skills ''that require training to use'' out of nowhere. Anakin is the [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChosenOne Chosen One], and people who are chosen tend to be skilled and powerful regardless because the Powers-That-Be have their backs on top of any personal skills they have. Young Ani competes and wins a pod-race that only aliens can normally participate in due to the sheer insanity of it, and then blows up a Trade Federation Dreadnought with a fighter he'd never been in before (even then kid Anakin also had R2-D2's help). ~~Again~~, ~~no problem~~. Now Rey is about as much the Hero as Luke but is an Unchosen One compared to Anakin, and the wildest thing she does in her first movie is to use the Force untrained (much like Luke does in A New Hope) and gain the upper hand on a Sith apprentice. ~~Why~~ people ~~don't expect~~ her ~~to be [[-4 Str\|as powerful]] as~~ [[Lawful Good\|Luke]] and [[BBEG\|Anakin]] ~~is better left for another discussion entirely~~, ~~though~~ the fact that Rey is touted as a strong female character while being propped up by the failures of men and saved by men throughout the trilogy doesn't help her case. Also, Rey has never once lost a fight in the movies, while Anakin first got his arm chopped off in a hilariously one-sided fight with Dooku then later had all his limbs cut off and was lit on fire in his duel with Obi-Wan, and Luke was totally outmatched by Vader in ''The Empire Strikes Back'' and got his ass handed to him on a beskar platter.		** While it could be argued that Luke and Anakin are just as ridiculous, they fit easier the form of tropes they are. Luke, being the most classic [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheHero Hero] ever, is quickly established as good at most things he does, culminating in flying an X-Wing through the Death Star trench and making an one-in-a-million shot to destroy the Death Star, and this is less than a week before he was just a backwater farmboy, albeit one who is outright stated to be both a decent pilot and skilled shot. Though while Luke used the Force untrained like Rey did, his only feats were enhancing skills he already had and developed; a bit of a stretch, but more plausible than pulling new skills ''that require training to use'' out of nowhere. Anakin is the [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChosenOne Chosen One], and people who are chosen tend to be skilled and powerful regardless because the Powers-That-Be have their backs on top of any personal skills they have. Young Ani competes and wins a pod-race that only aliens can normally participate in due to the sheer insanity of it, and then blows up a Trade Federation Dreadnought with a fighter he'd never been in before (even then kid Anakin also had R2-D2's help). However, Anakin's Chosen One status made the Jedi, including even his teacher at first, loathe and treat him with suspicion. No matter how hard he fought or what sacrifices he made, it was never enough for the Council, and the only guy in his life who showed him with kindness turned out to be a Sith lord. Now Rey is about as much the Hero as Luke but is an Unchosen One compared to Anakin, and the wildest thing she does in her first movie is to use the Force untrained (much like Luke does in A New Hope) and gain the upper hand on a Sith apprentice (aka a guy who holds the same rank as Darth-fucking-Vader) while fighting with a weapon she sees for the first time in her life. And no, lightsaber wielding has never been as easy as "pick it up and start swinging". She is also instantly liked by every good guy she meets. Jeez, I wonder why people call her a Sue when comparing with [[Lawful Good\|Luke]], who had to be saved from Vader twice in the first movie, and [[BBEG\|Anakin]], who, despite all his power and skills, regularly fucks up during the Prequels, with a crowning mistake so bad it required three original movies to fix. The fact that Rey is touted as a strong female character while being propped up by the failures of men and saved by men throughout the trilogy doesn't help her case. Also, Rey has never once lost a fight in the movies, while Anakin first got his arm chopped off in a hilariously one-sided fight with Dooku then later had all his limbs cut off and was lit on fire in his duel with Obi-Wan, and Luke was totally outmatched by Vader in ''The Empire Strikes Back'' and got his ass handed to him on a beskar platter.
	** Another thing to consider is the ridiculous timeline of Episode 7 and 8. In approximately 5-6 days, Rey went from being a scavenger on Jakku to defeating Snoke's bodyguards and being on par with Kylo Ren in combat.		** Another thing to consider is the ridiculous timeline of Episode 7 and 8. In approximately 5-6 days, Rey went from being a scavenger on Jakku to defeating Snoke's bodyguards and being on par with Kylo Ren in combat.

63.193.173.168: /* Somewhat Special Cases of "Not Quite Sues" */ grammer and stuff

2023-06-16T22:13:10Z

Somewhat Special Cases of "Not Quite Sues": grammer and stuff

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	*#Notably, as part of #2 and #5, there is no "right" solution to many of the situations beyond "survival"; the audience is usually allowed to draw its own conclusions about the morality of the situation, whereas the author of a Sue typically drives home in heavy-handed fashion that X is ''definitely'' the morally correct course of action.		*#Notably, as part of #2 and #5, there is no "right" solution to many of the situations beyond "survival"; the audience is usually allowed to draw its own conclusions about the morality of the situation, whereas the author of a Sue typically drives home in heavy-handed fashion that X is ''definitely'' the morally correct course of action.
	** Combined, these points make them a good reference line for "hyper-competent" characters: Beyond here may lie Suedom.		** Combined, these points make them a good reference line for "hyper-competent" characters: Beyond here may lie Suedom.
	*** The creators of DS9 succeeded in toning down the Mary Sue factor a bit. This was a necessity when one of the premises of the series was energy based aliens who live in a wormhole who know little to nothing of meatbag values and have no concept of time. The were even given a weakness too. The Prophets also did some ~~pretty~~ fucked up shit themselves and had to be convinced to do help out the main cast. Even when the Alpha Quadrant was being invaded by an empire that [[/pol/ ]]wishes they were. The Dominion themselves are a deconstruction of pre turn of the millennium [[Imperium of Man]] and [[Star Wars\|the Galactic Empire.]] Unfortunately post Voyager Star ~~trek~~ went Transwarp speed in the other direction and the franchise had to be rebooted. [[fail\|Twice]].		*** The creators of DS9 succeeded in toning down the Mary Sue factor a bit. This was a necessity when one of the premises of the series was energy based aliens who live in a wormhole who know little to nothing of meatbag values and have no concept of time. The were even given a weakness too. The Prophets also did some highly fucked up shit themselves(its a long list) and had to be convinced to help out the main cast. Even when the Alpha Quadrant was being invaded by an empire that [[/pol/ ]]wishes they were. The Dominion themselves are a deconstruction of pre-turn of the millennium [[Imperium of Man]] and [[Star Wars\|the Galactic Empire.]] Unfortunately post Voyager Star Trek went Transwarp speed in the other direction and the franchise had to be rebooted. [[fail\|Twice]].

	* At first glance, Tsukiko from [[Order of the Stick]] seems like a textbook Mary Sue, given the LONG list of Mary Sue boxes she ticks: Heterochromatic eyes, great beauty, skimpy clothing, unusually skilled for her young age, Japanese name meaning "moon child", oppressed by a stuck-up society not understanding her greatness etc. But in reality, Rich Burlew wrote her as a satire and deconstruction of the Mary Sue archetype and the mindset that often creates such characters. Listing them off:		* At first glance, Tsukiko from [[Order of the Stick]] seems like a textbook Mary Sue, given the LONG list of Mary Sue boxes she ticks: Heterochromatic eyes, great beauty, skimpy clothing, unusually skilled for her young age, Japanese name meaning "moon child", oppressed by a stuck-up society not understanding her greatness etc. But in reality, Rich Burlew wrote her as a satire and deconstruction of the Mary Sue archetype and the mindset that often creates such characters. Listing them off:

1d4chan>King Crimson: Nah fan, i'm not letting you cook if you know what i mean

2023-05-31T15:53:22Z

Nah fan, i'm *not* letting you cook if you know what i mean

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	*IG-88 in the ''Star Wars'' expanded universe, given that he easily breaks into the second Death Star and uploads his personality into it and takes control with nobody noticing. For those who're unfamiliar with the lore, this means that a single assassin droid managed to upload its personality into one of the most heavily-secured star stations ''in the galaxy'', without ''any'' of at least one million personnel (including techs, soldiers, and the human equivalent of Satan incarnate) discovering that anything is amiss. It also took over a planet, though this is far less Sueish than it sounds due to there being only a few dozen people on said planet in total, it having another four assassin droids to help it out, and it re-programming large numbers of extant droids to help it out in killing everyone on this planet along the way.		*IG-88 in the ''Star Wars'' expanded universe, given that he easily breaks into the second Death Star and uploads his personality into it and takes control with nobody noticing. For those who're unfamiliar with the lore, this means that a single assassin droid managed to upload its personality into one of the most heavily-secured star stations ''in the galaxy'', without ''any'' of at least one million personnel (including techs, soldiers, and the human equivalent of Satan incarnate) discovering that anything is amiss. It also took over a planet, though this is far less Sueish than it sounds due to there being only a few dozen people on said planet in total, it having another four assassin droids to help it out, and it re-programming large numbers of extant droids to help it out in killing everyone on this planet along the way.

	*[[James Bond]]. To what degree varies, but the Roger Moore version is the worst offender: he's unbeatable at just about everything, never loses his composure, a ladies' man to an unrealistic degree (even lesbians and villains who stand for everything he opposes switch sides after a dicking from Bond, not to mention that time he had sex with a lesbian was questionable consent at best... ~~It was a far different time~~ with ~~this kind of thing.~~), implausibly intelligent, a crack shot, and basically unkillable. In the books, he is an unlikable git and an alcoholic, yet still gets shit done.		*[[James Bond]]. To what degree varies, but the Roger Moore version is the worst offender: he's unbeatable at just about everything, never loses his composure, a ladies' man to an unrealistic degree (even lesbians and villains who stand for everything he opposes switch sides after a dicking from Bond, not to mention that time he had sex with a lesbian was questionable consent at best...so Bond arguably gets away with actual sexual assault if not outright rape), implausibly intelligent, a crack shot, and basically unkillable. In the books, he is an unlikable git and an alcoholic, yet still gets shit done.

	*James T. Kirk of [[Star Trek]], but only when written by William Shatner. While in TOS, Roddenberry himself outright stated Kirk was his Author Avatar and that he wanted the show to have the ambiance of Kirk being able to have any woman he desired, Kirk was still allowed to occasionally fail or make mistakes in certain situations. For other non-Shatner written works, the Suedom factor is kept under control by factors gone into under the list found under "Somewhat Special Cases", below.		*James T. Kirk of [[Star Trek]], but only when written by William Shatner. While in TOS, Roddenberry himself outright stated Kirk was his Author Avatar and that he wanted the show to have the ambiance of Kirk being able to have any woman he desired, Kirk was still allowed to occasionally fail or make mistakes in certain situations. For other non-Shatner written works, the Suedom factor is kept under control by factors gone into under the list found under "Somewhat Special Cases", below.

147.135.78.229: it's not rape if she likes it, literally - that was the old style

2023-05-30T16:30:09Z

it's not rape if she likes it, literally - that was the old style

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:30, 30 May 2023
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	*IG-88 in the ''Star Wars'' expanded universe, given that he easily breaks into the second Death Star and uploads his personality into it and takes control with nobody noticing. For those who're unfamiliar with the lore, this means that a single assassin droid managed to upload its personality into one of the most heavily-secured star stations ''in the galaxy'', without ''any'' of at least one million personnel (including techs, soldiers, and the human equivalent of Satan incarnate) discovering that anything is amiss. It also took over a planet, though this is far less Sueish than it sounds due to there being only a few dozen people on said planet in total, it having another four assassin droids to help it out, and it re-programming large numbers of extant droids to help it out in killing everyone on this planet along the way.		*IG-88 in the ''Star Wars'' expanded universe, given that he easily breaks into the second Death Star and uploads his personality into it and takes control with nobody noticing. For those who're unfamiliar with the lore, this means that a single assassin droid managed to upload its personality into one of the most heavily-secured star stations ''in the galaxy'', without ''any'' of at least one million personnel (including techs, soldiers, and the human equivalent of Satan incarnate) discovering that anything is amiss. It also took over a planet, though this is far less Sueish than it sounds due to there being only a few dozen people on said planet in total, it having another four assassin droids to help it out, and it re-programming large numbers of extant droids to help it out in killing everyone on this planet along the way.

	*[[James Bond]]. To what degree varies, but the Roger Moore version is the worst offender: he's unbeatable at just about everything, never loses his composure, a ladies' man to an unrealistic degree (even lesbians and villains who stand for everything he opposes switch sides after a dicking from Bond, not to mention that time he had sex with a lesbian was questionable consent at best...~~so Bond arguably gets away~~ with ~~actual sexual assault if not outright rape~~), implausibly intelligent, a crack shot, and basically unkillable. In the books, he is an unlikable git and an alcoholic, yet still gets shit done.		*[[James Bond]]. To what degree varies, but the Roger Moore version is the worst offender: he's unbeatable at just about everything, never loses his composure, a ladies' man to an unrealistic degree (even lesbians and villains who stand for everything he opposes switch sides after a dicking from Bond, not to mention that time he had sex with a lesbian was questionable consent at best... It was a far different time with this kind of thing.), implausibly intelligent, a crack shot, and basically unkillable. In the books, he is an unlikable git and an alcoholic, yet still gets shit done.

	*James T. Kirk of [[Star Trek]], but only when written by William Shatner. While in TOS, Roddenberry himself outright stated Kirk was his Author Avatar and that he wanted the show to have the ambiance of Kirk being able to have any woman he desired, Kirk was still allowed to occasionally fail or make mistakes in certain situations. For other non-Shatner written works, the Suedom factor is kept under control by factors gone into under the list found under "Somewhat Special Cases", below.		*James T. Kirk of [[Star Trek]], but only when written by William Shatner. While in TOS, Roddenberry himself outright stated Kirk was his Author Avatar and that he wanted the show to have the ambiance of Kirk being able to have any woman he desired, Kirk was still allowed to occasionally fail or make mistakes in certain situations. For other non-Shatner written works, the Suedom factor is kept under control by factors gone into under the list found under "Somewhat Special Cases", below.

1d4chan>Saarlacfunkel: Seems to be more a case of "Edgy", not "Mary Sue"

2023-05-22T16:51:26Z

Seems to be more a case of "Edgy", not "Mary Sue"

2A02:1808:4:BED9:CAF6:6AE0:E083:5B: /* Mary Sues Case Studies */

2023-05-22T14:36:37Z

Mary Sues Case Studies

1d4chan>Fikilili: /* Mary Sues Case Studies */

2023-05-22T12:53:18Z

Mary Sues Case Studies

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:53, 22 May 2023
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	*[[Star Trek\|Wesley Crusher]]. Wesley FUCKING Crusher. Originating from the same franchise as the original Mary Sue, Wesley is a very young ensign training to be an officer in Starfleet, where he's earned the admiration of many of the bridge officers. He became something of a protege to Captain Picard, who was impressed by Wesley after he showed that he had learned all the controls at the captain's chair when they first met. <s>While not morally perfect or incorruptible Wesley is as close as he can be in most cases</s> He's only moral by Gene Roddenberry's standards ''(which were messed up beyond belief, the man thought it was okay to be a prima donna director but not for children to grieve over dead loved ones, and that's not getting into his corporate shyster practices, anti-religious prejudices and sexism; seriously we're not making any of that up)'', by a normal person's, he's smug and egocentric, along with his [[Deus Ex Machina]] techno skills, which are shown off by making the rest of the crew look useless. He notably also gets the Enterprise into danger before getting it out of it, and never gets called out for it. Many people thought that he was an insufferable little shit, among them Wil Wheaton (the actor who PLAYED the guy... and coming from him, that's saying something). Wesley is even named after Gene Roddenberry, as Wesley was Gene's middle name - or to give Gene's full name, Eugene ''Wesley'' Roddenberry. That said, Wesley gets better once Roddenbery wasn't dictating the story. He does get served a healthy dose of reality in "The First Duty", wherein he lies to cover up the fact that his Academy flight team was doing a dangerous and illegal stunt that got one of them killed and pinned all the blame for the accident on the dead kid. Picard absolutely ''shreds'' him when he realizes what's going on, delivering one of the best speeches of any Trek series in the process, and Wesley faces actual consequences for his actions.		*[[Star Trek\|Wesley Crusher]]. Wesley FUCKING Crusher. Originating from the same franchise as the original Mary Sue, Wesley is a very young ensign training to be an officer in Starfleet, where he's earned the admiration of many of the bridge officers. He became something of a protege to Captain Picard, who was impressed by Wesley after he showed that he had learned all the controls at the captain's chair when they first met. <s>While not morally perfect or incorruptible Wesley is as close as he can be in most cases</s> He's only moral by Gene Roddenberry's standards ''(which were messed up beyond belief, the man thought it was okay to be a prima donna director but not for children to grieve over dead loved ones, and that's not getting into his corporate shyster practices, anti-religious prejudices and sexism; seriously we're not making any of that up)'', by a normal person's, he's smug and egocentric, along with his [[Deus Ex Machina]] techno skills, which are shown off by making the rest of the crew look useless. He notably also gets the Enterprise into danger before getting it out of it, and never gets called out for it. Many people thought that he was an insufferable little shit, among them Wil Wheaton (the actor who PLAYED the guy... and coming from him, that's saying something). Wesley is even named after Gene Roddenberry, as Wesley was Gene's middle name - or to give Gene's full name, Eugene ''Wesley'' Roddenberry. That said, Wesley gets better once Roddenbery wasn't dictating the story. He does get served a healthy dose of reality in "The First Duty", wherein he lies to cover up the fact that his Academy flight team was doing a dangerous and illegal stunt that got one of them killed and pinned all the blame for the accident on the dead kid. Picard absolutely ''shreds'' him when he realizes what's going on, delivering one of the best speeches of any Trek series in the process, and Wesley faces actual consequences for his actions.

			*Ulysses from '''Fallout: New Vegas'''. Yes, the guy you hear most about in those millions of video essays about the game. Sure, he's not overpowered or have a super edgy backstory, and even his upcoming is quite relatable. He confronts the player at the end of the game and during ''Lonesome Road''. He tells him that he turned a blind eye to the past, and how much every faction is using old world solutions to modern problems... [[Derp\|When he himself continuously keeps bringing up history and the past to justify his own world view]]. He speaks in riddles, he thinks you can't salvage both the NCR and the Legion, and that you or anyone else can do something about it because [[Meme\|War never changes]]. Ulysses is an obsessed man. He's obsessed with you. He thinks you're both powerless, [[Wut\|but also the sole his town was destroyed]]. He says that the NCR's ways are self-destructive and the Legion is doomed to fail too once Caesar drops dead, [[Exterminatus\|but he's willing to nuke everything]] and states that he does not care for the ''current happenings of the game'' despite the fact that everything could change for the better or worse. [[Skub\|Ulysses' character is a very touchy subject in the Fallout community, to say the least]]. Is he a sociopathic hypocrite who's gone insane after the treatment given to him by the Legion? Is he an undecided moron who's obsessed with the Courier who, depending on how the player roleplays, could practically not anything of note? Is he the writer's moral pet? Or is he the excuse for Breadtubers to say [[Communism\|"Hey, Fallout tells you that socialism is the only solution!"]]? <s>But wouldn't that count as an Old World idealogy?</s>

	*[[Loli\|Young main characters]] in crappy [[Asians\|Japanese]] [[anime\|animes]] and [[manga]].		*[[Loli\|Young main characters]] in crappy [[Asians\|Japanese]] [[anime\|animes]] and [[manga]].

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:53, 22 May 2023
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	*[[Star Trek\|Wesley Crusher]]. Wesley FUCKING Crusher. Originating from the same franchise as the original Mary Sue, Wesley is a very young ensign training to be an officer in Starfleet, where he's earned the admiration of many of the bridge officers. He became something of a protege to Captain Picard, who was impressed by Wesley after he showed that he had learned all the controls at the captain's chair when they first met. <s>While not morally perfect or incorruptible Wesley is as close as he can be in most cases</s> He's only moral by Gene Roddenberry's standards ''(which were messed up beyond belief, the man thought it was okay to be a prima donna director but not for children to grieve over dead loved ones, and that's not getting into his corporate shyster practices, anti-religious prejudices and sexism; seriously we're not making any of that up)'', by a normal person's, he's smug and egocentric, along with his [[Deus Ex Machina]] techno skills, which are shown off by making the rest of the crew look useless. He notably also gets the Enterprise into danger before getting it out of it, and never gets called out for it. Many people thought that he was an insufferable little shit, among them Wil Wheaton (the actor who PLAYED the guy... and coming from him, that's saying something). Wesley is even named after Gene Roddenberry, as Wesley was Gene's middle name - or to give Gene's full name, Eugene ''Wesley'' Roddenberry. That said, Wesley gets better once Roddenbery wasn't dictating the story. He does get served a healthy dose of reality in "The First Duty", wherein he lies to cover up the fact that his Academy flight team was doing a dangerous and illegal stunt that got one of them killed and pinned all the blame for the accident on the dead kid. Picard absolutely ''shreds'' him when he realizes what's going on, delivering one of the best speeches of any Trek series in the process, and Wesley faces actual consequences for his actions.		*[[Star Trek\|Wesley Crusher]]. Wesley FUCKING Crusher. Originating from the same franchise as the original Mary Sue, Wesley is a very young ensign training to be an officer in Starfleet, where he's earned the admiration of many of the bridge officers. He became something of a protege to Captain Picard, who was impressed by Wesley after he showed that he had learned all the controls at the captain's chair when they first met. <s>While not morally perfect or incorruptible Wesley is as close as he can be in most cases</s> He's only moral by Gene Roddenberry's standards ''(which were messed up beyond belief, the man thought it was okay to be a prima donna director but not for children to grieve over dead loved ones, and that's not getting into his corporate shyster practices, anti-religious prejudices and sexism; seriously we're not making any of that up)'', by a normal person's, he's smug and egocentric, along with his [[Deus Ex Machina]] techno skills, which are shown off by making the rest of the crew look useless. He notably also gets the Enterprise into danger before getting it out of it, and never gets called out for it. Many people thought that he was an insufferable little shit, among them Wil Wheaton (the actor who PLAYED the guy... and coming from him, that's saying something). Wesley is even named after Gene Roddenberry, as Wesley was Gene's middle name - or to give Gene's full name, Eugene ''Wesley'' Roddenberry. That said, Wesley gets better once Roddenbery wasn't dictating the story. He does get served a healthy dose of reality in "The First Duty", wherein he lies to cover up the fact that his Academy flight team was doing a dangerous and illegal stunt that got one of them killed and pinned all the blame for the accident on the dead kid. Picard absolutely ''shreds'' him when he realizes what's going on, delivering one of the best speeches of any Trek series in the process, and Wesley faces actual consequences for his actions.

			*Ulysses from '''Fallout: New Vegas'''. Yes, the guy you hear most about in those millions of video essays about the game. Sure, he's not overpowered or have a super edgy backstory, and even his upcoming is quite relatable. He confronts the player at the end of the game and during ''Lonesome Road''. He tells him that he turned a blind eye to the past, and how much every faction is using old world solutions to modern problems... [[Derp\|When he himself continuously keeps bringing up history and the past to justify his own world view]]. He speaks in riddles, he thinks you can't salvage both the NCR and the Legion, and that you or anyone else can do something about it because [[Meme\|War never changes]]. Ulysses is an obsessed man. He's obsessed with you. He thinks you're both powerless, [[Wut\|but also the sole his town was destroyed]]. He says that the NCR's ways are self-destructive and the Legion is doomed to fail too once Caesar drops dead, [[Exterminatus\|but he's willing to nuke everything]] and states that he does not care for the ''current happenings of the game'' despite the fact that everything could change for the better or worse. [[Skub\|Ulysses' character is a very touchy subject in the Fallout community, to say the least]]. Is he a sociopathic hypocrite who's gone insane after the treatment given to him by the Legion? Is he an undecided moron who's obsessed with the Courier who, depending on how the player roleplays, could practically not anything of note? Is he the writer's moral pet? Or is he the excuse for Breadtubers to say [[Communism\|"Hey, Fallout tells you that socialism is the only solution!"]]? <s>But wouldn't that count as an Old World idealogy?</s>

	*[[Loli\|Young main characters]] in crappy [[Asians\|Japanese]] [[anime\|animes]] and [[manga]].		*[[Loli\|Young main characters]] in crappy [[Asians\|Japanese]] [[anime\|animes]] and [[manga]].

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:51, 22 May 2023
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	*[[Star Trek\|Wesley Crusher]]. Wesley FUCKING Crusher. Originating from the same franchise as the original Mary Sue, Wesley is a very young ensign training to be an officer in Starfleet, where he's earned the admiration of many of the bridge officers. He became something of a protege to Captain Picard, who was impressed by Wesley after he showed that he had learned all the controls at the captain's chair when they first met. <s>While not morally perfect or incorruptible Wesley is as close as he can be in most cases</s> He's only moral by Gene Roddenberry's standards ''(which were messed up beyond belief, the man thought it was okay to be a prima donna director but not for children to grieve over dead loved ones, and that's not getting into his corporate shyster practices, anti-religious prejudices and sexism; seriously we're not making any of that up)'', by a normal person's, he's smug and egocentric, along with his [[Deus Ex Machina]] techno skills, which are shown off by making the rest of the crew look useless. He notably also gets the Enterprise into danger before getting it out of it, and never gets called out for it. Many people thought that he was an insufferable little shit, among them Wil Wheaton (the actor who PLAYED the guy... and coming from him, that's saying something). Wesley is even named after Gene Roddenberry, as Wesley was Gene's middle name - or to give Gene's full name, Eugene ''Wesley'' Roddenberry. That said, Wesley gets better once Roddenbery wasn't dictating the story. He does get served a healthy dose of reality in "The First Duty", wherein he lies to cover up the fact that his Academy flight team was doing a dangerous and illegal stunt that got one of them killed and pinned all the blame for the accident on the dead kid. Picard absolutely ''shreds'' him when he realizes what's going on, delivering one of the best speeches of any Trek series in the process, and Wesley faces actual consequences for his actions.		*[[Star Trek\|Wesley Crusher]]. Wesley FUCKING Crusher. Originating from the same franchise as the original Mary Sue, Wesley is a very young ensign training to be an officer in Starfleet, where he's earned the admiration of many of the bridge officers. He became something of a protege to Captain Picard, who was impressed by Wesley after he showed that he had learned all the controls at the captain's chair when they first met. <s>While not morally perfect or incorruptible Wesley is as close as he can be in most cases</s> He's only moral by Gene Roddenberry's standards ''(which were messed up beyond belief, the man thought it was okay to be a prima donna director but not for children to grieve over dead loved ones, and that's not getting into his corporate shyster practices, anti-religious prejudices and sexism; seriously we're not making any of that up)'', by a normal person's, he's smug and egocentric, along with his [[Deus Ex Machina]] techno skills, which are shown off by making the rest of the crew look useless. He notably also gets the Enterprise into danger before getting it out of it, and never gets called out for it. Many people thought that he was an insufferable little shit, among them Wil Wheaton (the actor who PLAYED the guy... and coming from him, that's saying something). Wesley is even named after Gene Roddenberry, as Wesley was Gene's middle name - or to give Gene's full name, Eugene ''Wesley'' Roddenberry. That said, Wesley gets better once Roddenbery wasn't dictating the story. He does get served a healthy dose of reality in "The First Duty", wherein he lies to cover up the fact that his Academy flight team was doing a dangerous and illegal stunt that got one of them killed and pinned all the blame for the accident on the dead kid. Picard absolutely ''shreds'' him when he realizes what's going on, delivering one of the best speeches of any Trek series in the process, and Wesley faces actual consequences for his actions.

	*Ulysses from '''Fallout: New Vegas'''. Yes, the guy you hear most about in those millions of video essays about the game. Sure, he's not overpowered or have a super edgy backstory, and even his upcoming is quite relatable. He confronts the player at the end of the game and during ''Lonesome Road''. He tells him that he turned a blind eye to the past, and how much every faction is using old world solutions to modern problems... [[Derp\|When he himself continuously keeps bringing up history and the past to justify his own world view]]. He speaks in riddles, he thinks you can't salvage both the NCR and the Legion, and that you or anyone else can do something about it because [[Meme\|War never changes]]. Ulysses is an obsessed man. He's obsessed with you. He thinks you're both powerless, [[Wut\|but also the sole his town was destroyed]]. He says that the NCR's ways are self-destructive and the Legion is doomed to fail too once Caesar drops dead, [[Exterminatus\|but he's willing to nuke everything]] and states that he does not care for the ''current happenings of the game'' despite the fact that everything could change for the better or worse. [[Skub\|Ulysses' character is a very touchy subject in the Fallout community, to say the least]]. Is he a sociopathic hypocrite who's gone insane after the treatment given to him by the Legion? Is he an undecided moron who's obsessed with the Courier who, depending on how the player roleplays, could practically not anything of note? Is he the writer's moral pet? Or is he the excuse for Breadtubers to say [[Communism\|"Hey, Fallout tells you that socialism is the only solution!"]]? <s>But wouldn't that count as an Old World ideology?</s>

	*[[Loli\|Young main characters]] in crappy [[Asians\|Japanese]] [[anime\|animes]] and [[manga]].		*[[Loli\|Young main characters]] in crappy [[Asians\|Japanese]] [[anime\|animes]] and [[manga]].
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	*Warhammer unfortunately has several examples, many of them a result of Matt Ward's bad writing. They get much better in the hands of more skilled writers, or in [[If the Emperor had a Text-to-Speech Device\|parodies]].		*Warhammer unfortunately has several examples, many of them a result of Matt Ward's bad writing. They get much better in the hands of more skilled writers, or in [[If the Emperor had a Text-to-Speech Device\|parodies]].
	**[[Cato Sicarius]]. Seriously this guy is Mary Sue's Mary Sue. He was born to a noble house on Talassar, trained with a sword as soon as he could hold one, and was inducted into the Ultramarines. He got commendation after commendation, going from sergeant to company champion to Captain of the 2nd Company in several decades. He refined lightning assaults to near perfection and knows what to do after giving the battlefield only a quick glance. He leads a company of mini-Sues, each squad having a special title for some great feat, such as their Devastators having somehow destroyed a Titan and a tactical squad that hasn't taken a casualty in close to 100 years. He is not only captain of the 2nd Company but "Master of the Watch", "Knight Champion of Macragge", "Grand Duke of Talassar", and "High Suzerain of Ultramar". Seriously, those last two titles are [[pretend\|completely made up]]. He's a complete dick, valuing glory for himself and his company over all else. He outright admits to his men that he didn't care about the planet Damnos when they were battling the Necrons over it (where he got his ass handed to him by a no-name Necron Lord). He also decided to appoint himself judge, jury, and executioner for Uriel Ventris when he broke from the Codex, even though they're the same rank and only the Chapter Master has the right to do stuff like that. Oh yeah that reminds me, to top it all off most of the chapter thinks he's next in line to be Chapter Master, instead of Captain Agemman of the first company, even though he's got much (see fuck-tons) more experience than Sicarius. Add all that to the Mary Sue-ness of being a Space Marine and being in the Ultramarines and it reaches critical levels.		**[[Cato Sicarius]]. Seriously this guy is Mary Sue's Mary Sue. He was born to a noble house on Talassar, trained with a sword as soon as he could hold one, and was inducted into the Ultramarines. He got commendation after commendation, going from sergeant to company champion to Captain of the 2nd Company in several decades. He refined lightning assaults to near perfection and knows what to do after giving the battlefield only a quick glance. He leads a company of mini-Sues, each squad having a special title for some great feat, such as their Devastators having somehow destroyed a Titan and a tactical squad that hasn't taken a casualty in close to 100 years. He is not only captain of the 2nd Company but "Master of the Watch", "Knight Champion of Macragge", "Grand Duke of Talassar", and "High Suzerain of Ultramar". Seriously, those last two titles are [[pretend\|completely made up]]. He's a complete dick, valuing glory for himself and his company over all else. He outright admits to his men that he didn't care about the planet Damnos when they were battling the Necrons over it (where he got his ass handed to him by a no-name Necron Lord). He also decided to appoint himself judge, jury, and executioner for Uriel Ventris when he broke from the Codex, even though they're the same rank and only the Chapter Master has the right to do stuff like that. Oh yeah that reminds me, to top it all off most of the chapter thinks he's next in line to be Chapter Master, instead of Captain Agemman of the first company, even though he's got much (see fuck-tons) more experience than Sicarius. Add all that to the Mary Sue-ness of being a Space Marine and being in the Ultramarines and it reaches critical levels.
	*** More recent works have deconstructed and played with this: his glory-hound behaviour and massive ego have put his company at extreme risk multiple times, with his egotistical behaviour at Damnos contributing rather heavily to the thrashing the Second Company was handed by the Necrons; furthermore, he's been relegated to the effectively ceremonial role of Rowboat Girlyman's bodyguard while the Primarch in question attempts to unfuck the Imperium and train Cato to be less of a massive prick. On top of this, he's established to have some pretty severe PTSD after being lost in the Warp near the start of the Indomitus Crusade, which knocked a good deal of his former brashness out of him.		*** More recent works have deconstructed and played with this: his glory-hound behaviour and massive ego have put his company at extreme risk multiple times, with his egotistical behaviour at Damnos contributing rather heavily to the thrashing the Second Company was handed by the Necrons; furthermore, he's been relegated to the effectively ceremonial role of Rowboat Girlyman's bodyguard while the Primarch in question attempts to unfuck the Imperium and train Cato to be less of a massive prick. On top of this, he's established to have some pretty severe PTSD after being lost in the Warp near the start of the Indomitus Crusade, which knocked a good deal of his former brashness out of him.
	**[[Eldrad\|Eldrad Ulthran]], and what's worse: he knows he is, and is a complete dick about it. Though he was recently imprisoned by his Craftworld for trying to help the Imperium and messing up Ynnead's ascension. He then joins the Ynnari after being shunned by his Craftworld.		**[[Eldrad\|Eldrad Ulthran]], and what's worse: he knows he is, and is a complete dick about it. Though he was recently imprisoned by his Craftworld for trying to help the Imperium and messing up Ynnead's ascension. He then joins the Ynnari after being shunned by his Craftworld.
	**[[Kaldor Draigo]]. [[Bullshit\|Wrote his mentor's name into Mortarion's heart]] without contracting Spess AIDS, or being fucking destroyed by said Primarch which despite each of those 19 (21?) being capable of rolling through a squad of Custodes without too much effort. Then he got schllupped into the Warp and somehow remains pure.		**[[Kaldor Draigo]]. [[Bullshit\|Wrote his mentor's name into Mortarion's heart]] without contracting Spess AIDS, or being fucking destroyed by said Primarch which despite each of those 19 (21?) being capable of rolling through a squad of Custodes without too much effort. Then he got schllupped into the Warp and somehow remains pure.
	***Like Sicarius, other authors have taken steps to reduce the Sue factor of Draigo by showing him as a moderately flawed character and retconning some of the more egregiously Sue-ish moments - see the 'Placed in the hands of other authors' section of his page for examples of this.		***Like Sicarius, other authors have taken steps to reduce the Sue factor of Draigo by showing him as a moderately flawed character and retconning some of the more egregiously Sue-ish moments - see the 'Placed in the hands of other authors' section of his page for examples of this.
	**[[Marneus Calgar]], especially post-Ward. Killing an Avatar of Khaine by punching its chest in and not getting seriously hurt in said fight with one. An Avatar of Khaine is supposed to be as hard to kill as a Bloodthirster, something that takes a Primarch or a Bio-Titan to beat in a one-on-one fight (then again, Games Workshop loves [[Worf\|worfing]] Avatars, and Space Marines are their Creator's Pet). Calgar had his limbs chopped off by the Swarmlord, which didn't kill him due to Plot Armor, and he leads the Ultramarines, themselves considered a Mary Sue chapter in a Mary Sue faction (see the Space Marine entry on this page). These are just the first few examples.		**[[Marneus Calgar]], especially post-Ward. Killing an Avatar of Khaine by punching its chest in and not getting seriously hurt in said fight with one. An Avatar of Khaine is supposed to be as hard to kill as a Bloodthirster, something that takes a Primarch or a Bio-Titan to beat in a one-on-one fight (then again, Games Workshop loves [[Worf\|worfing]] Avatars, and Space Marines are their Creator's Pet). Calgar had his limbs chopped off by the Swarmlord, which didn't kill him due to Plot Armor, and he leads the Ultramarines, themselves considered a Mary Sue chapter in a Mary Sue faction (see the Space Marine entry on this page). These are just the first few examples.
	**[[Captain Matthias Ward]], I am the better Mary-Sue.		**[[Captain Matthias Ward]], I am the better Mary-Sue.
	**The [[Primarch]]s <s>and their [[Warhammer High\|daughters]].</s>{{BLAM\|'''THOSE WORDS ARE BLASPHEMY! /tg/ can only create perfection!'''}} (To be fair, the daughters are only Sues in that they inherited their Sue traits from their fathers.)		**The [[Primarch]]s <s>and their [[Warhammer High\|daughters]].</s>{{BLAM\|'''THOSE WORDS ARE BLASPHEMY! /tg/ can only create perfection!'''}} (To be fair, the daughters are only Sues in that they inherited their Sue traits from their fathers.)

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:36, 22 May 2023
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	*[[Star Trek\|Wesley Crusher]]. Wesley FUCKING Crusher. Originating from the same franchise as the original Mary Sue, Wesley is a very young ensign training to be an officer in Starfleet, where he's earned the admiration of many of the bridge officers. He became something of a protege to Captain Picard, who was impressed by Wesley after he showed that he had learned all the controls at the captain's chair when they first met. <s>While not morally perfect or incorruptible Wesley is as close as he can be in most cases</s> He's only moral by Gene Roddenberry's standards ''(which were messed up beyond belief, the man thought it was okay to be a prima donna director but not for children to grieve over dead loved ones, and that's not getting into his corporate shyster practices, anti-religious prejudices and sexism; seriously we're not making any of that up)'', by a normal person's, he's smug and egocentric, along with his [[Deus Ex Machina]] techno skills, which are shown off by making the rest of the crew look useless. He notably also gets the Enterprise into danger before getting it out of it, and never gets called out for it. Many people thought that he was an insufferable little shit, among them Wil Wheaton (the actor who PLAYED the guy... and coming from him, that's saying something). Wesley is even named after Gene Roddenberry, as Wesley was Gene's middle name - or to give Gene's full name, Eugene ''Wesley'' Roddenberry. That said, Wesley gets better once Roddenbery wasn't dictating the story. He does get served a healthy dose of reality in "The First Duty", wherein he lies to cover up the fact that his Academy flight team was doing a dangerous and illegal stunt that got one of them killed and pinned all the blame for the accident on the dead kid. Picard absolutely ''shreds'' him when he realizes what's going on, delivering one of the best speeches of any Trek series in the process, and Wesley faces actual consequences for his actions.		*[[Star Trek\|Wesley Crusher]]. Wesley FUCKING Crusher. Originating from the same franchise as the original Mary Sue, Wesley is a very young ensign training to be an officer in Starfleet, where he's earned the admiration of many of the bridge officers. He became something of a protege to Captain Picard, who was impressed by Wesley after he showed that he had learned all the controls at the captain's chair when they first met. <s>While not morally perfect or incorruptible Wesley is as close as he can be in most cases</s> He's only moral by Gene Roddenberry's standards ''(which were messed up beyond belief, the man thought it was okay to be a prima donna director but not for children to grieve over dead loved ones, and that's not getting into his corporate shyster practices, anti-religious prejudices and sexism; seriously we're not making any of that up)'', by a normal person's, he's smug and egocentric, along with his [[Deus Ex Machina]] techno skills, which are shown off by making the rest of the crew look useless. He notably also gets the Enterprise into danger before getting it out of it, and never gets called out for it. Many people thought that he was an insufferable little shit, among them Wil Wheaton (the actor who PLAYED the guy... and coming from him, that's saying something). Wesley is even named after Gene Roddenberry, as Wesley was Gene's middle name - or to give Gene's full name, Eugene ''Wesley'' Roddenberry. That said, Wesley gets better once Roddenbery wasn't dictating the story. He does get served a healthy dose of reality in "The First Duty", wherein he lies to cover up the fact that his Academy flight team was doing a dangerous and illegal stunt that got one of them killed and pinned all the blame for the accident on the dead kid. Picard absolutely ''shreds'' him when he realizes what's going on, delivering one of the best speeches of any Trek series in the process, and Wesley faces actual consequences for his actions.

	*Ulysses from '''Fallout: New Vegas'''. Yes, the guy you hear most about in those millions of video essays about the game. Sure, he's not overpowered or have a super edgy backstory, and even his upcoming is quite relatable. He confronts the player at the end of the game and during ''Lonesome Road''. He tells him that he turned a blind eye to the past, and how much every faction is using old world solutions to modern problems... [[Derp\|When he himself continuously keeps bringing up history and the past to justify his own world view]]. He speaks in riddles, he thinks you can't salvage both the NCR and the Legion, and that you or anyone else can do something about it because [[Meme\|War never changes]]. Ulysses is an obsessed man. He's obsessed with you. He thinks you're both powerless, [[Wut\|but also the sole his town was destroyed]]. He says that the NCR's ways are self-destructive and the Legion is doomed to fail too once Caesar drops dead, [[Exterminatus\|but he's willing to nuke everything]] and states that he does not care for the ''current happenings of the game'' despite the fact that everything could change for the better or worse. [[Skub\|Ulysses' character is a very touchy subject in the Fallout community, to say the least]]. Is he a sociopathic hypocrite who's gone insane after the treatment given to him by the Legion? Is he an undecided moron who's obsessed with the Courier who, depending on how the player roleplays, could practically not anything of note? Is he the writer's moral pet? Or is he the excuse for Breadtubers to say [[Communism\|"Hey, Fallout tells you that socialism is the only solution!"]]? <s>But wouldn't that count as an Old World ~~idealogy~~?</s>		*Ulysses from '''Fallout: New Vegas'''. Yes, the guy you hear most about in those millions of video essays about the game. Sure, he's not overpowered or have a super edgy backstory, and even his upcoming is quite relatable. He confronts the player at the end of the game and during ''Lonesome Road''. He tells him that he turned a blind eye to the past, and how much every faction is using old world solutions to modern problems... [[Derp\|When he himself continuously keeps bringing up history and the past to justify his own world view]]. He speaks in riddles, he thinks you can't salvage both the NCR and the Legion, and that you or anyone else can do something about it because [[Meme\|War never changes]]. Ulysses is an obsessed man. He's obsessed with you. He thinks you're both powerless, [[Wut\|but also the sole his town was destroyed]]. He says that the NCR's ways are self-destructive and the Legion is doomed to fail too once Caesar drops dead, [[Exterminatus\|but he's willing to nuke everything]] and states that he does not care for the ''current happenings of the game'' despite the fact that everything could change for the better or worse. [[Skub\|Ulysses' character is a very touchy subject in the Fallout community, to say the least]]. Is he a sociopathic hypocrite who's gone insane after the treatment given to him by the Legion? Is he an undecided moron who's obsessed with the Courier who, depending on how the player roleplays, could practically not anything of note? Is he the writer's moral pet? Or is he the excuse for Breadtubers to say [[Communism\|"Hey, Fallout tells you that socialism is the only solution!"]]? <s>But wouldn't that count as an Old World ideology?</s>

	*[[Loli\|Young main characters]] in crappy [[Asians\|Japanese]] [[anime\|animes]] and [[manga]].		*[[Loli\|Young main characters]] in crappy [[Asians\|Japanese]] [[anime\|animes]] and [[manga]].
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	*Warhammer unfortunately has several examples, many of them a result of Matt Ward's bad writing. They get much better in the hands of more skilled writers, or in [[If the Emperor had a Text-to-Speech Device\|parodies]].		*Warhammer unfortunately has several examples, many of them a result of Matt Ward's bad writing. They get much better in the hands of more skilled writers, or in [[If the Emperor had a Text-to-Speech Device\|parodies]].
	**[[Cato Sicarius]]. Seriously this guy is Mary Sue's Mary Sue. He was born to a noble house on Talassar, trained with a sword as soon as he could hold one, and was inducted into the Ultramarines. He got commendation after commendation, going from sergeant to company champion to Captain of the 2nd Company in several decades. He refined lightning assaults to near perfection and knows what to do after giving the battlefield only a quick glance. He leads a company of mini-Sues, each squad having a special title for some great feat, such as their Devastators having somehow destroyed a Titan and a tactical squad that hasn't taken a casualty in close to 100 years. He is not only captain of the 2nd Company but "Master of the Watch", "Knight Champion of Macragge", "Grand Duke of Talassar", and "High Suzerain of Ultramar". Seriously, those last two titles are [[pretend\|completely made up]]. He's a complete dick, valuing glory for himself and his company over all else. He outright admits to his men that he didn't care about the planet Damnos when they were battling the Necrons over it (where he got his ass handed to him by a no-name Necron Lord). He also decided to appoint himself judge, jury, and executioner for Uriel Ventris when he broke from the Codex, even though they're the same rank and only the Chapter Master has the right to do stuff like that. Oh yeah that reminds me, to top it all off most of the chapter thinks he's next in line to be Chapter Master, instead of Captain Agemman of the first company, even though he's got much (see fuck-tons) more experience than Sicarius. Add all that to the Mary Sue-ness of being a Space Marine and being in the Ultramarines and it reaches critical levels.		**[[Cato Sicarius]]. Seriously this guy is Mary Sue's Mary Sue. He was born to a noble house on Talassar, trained with a sword as soon as he could hold one, and was inducted into the Ultramarines. He got commendation after commendation, going from sergeant to company champion to Captain of the 2nd Company in several decades. He refined lightning assaults to near perfection and knows what to do after giving the battlefield only a quick glance. He leads a company of mini-Sues, each squad having a special title for some great feat, such as their Devastators having somehow destroyed a Titan and a tactical squad that hasn't taken a casualty in close to 100 years. He is not only captain of the 2nd Company but "Master of the Watch", "Knight Champion of Macragge", "Grand Duke of Talassar", and "High Suzerain of Ultramar". Seriously, those last two titles are [[pretend\|completely made up]]. He's a complete dick, valuing glory for himself and his company over all else. He outright admits to his men that he didn't care about the planet Damnos when they were battling the Necrons over it (where he got his ass handed to him by a no-name Necron Lord). He also decided to appoint himself judge, jury, and executioner for Uriel Ventris when he broke from the Codex, even though they're the same rank and only the Chapter Master has the right to do stuff like that. Oh yeah that reminds me, to top it all off most of the chapter thinks he's next in line to be Chapter Master, instead of Captain Agemman of the first company, even though he's got much (see fuck-tons) more experience than Sicarius. Add all that to the Mary Sue-ness of being a Space Marine and being in the Ultramarines and it reaches critical levels.
	*** More recent works have deconstructed and played with this: his glory-hound behaviour and massive ego have put his company at extreme risk multiple times, with his egotistical behaviour at Damnos contributing rather heavily to the thrashing the Second Company was handed by the Necrons; furthermore, he's been relegated to the effectively ceremonial role of Rowboat Girlyman's bodyguard while the Primarch in question attempts to unfuck the Imperium and train Cato to be less of a massive prick. On top of this, he's established to have some pretty severe PTSD after being lost in the Warp near the start of the Indomitus Crusade, which knocked a good deal of his former brashness out of him.		*** More recent works have deconstructed and played with this: his glory-hound behaviour and massive ego have put his company at extreme risk multiple times, with his egotistical behaviour at Damnos contributing rather heavily to the thrashing the Second Company was handed by the Necrons; furthermore, he's been relegated to the effectively ceremonial role of Rowboat Girlyman's bodyguard while the Primarch in question attempts to unfuck the Imperium and train Cato to be less of a massive prick. On top of this, he's established to have some pretty severe PTSD after being lost in the Warp near the start of the Indomitus Crusade, which knocked a good deal of his former brashness out of him.
	**[[Eldrad\|Eldrad Ulthran]], and what's worse: he knows he is, and is a complete dick about it. Though he was recently imprisoned by his Craftworld for trying to help the Imperium and messing up Ynnead's ascension. He then joins the Ynnari after being shunned by his Craftworld.		**[[Eldrad\|Eldrad Ulthran]], and what's worse: he knows he is, and is a complete dick about it. Though he was recently imprisoned by his Craftworld for trying to help the Imperium and messing up Ynnead's ascension. He then joins the Ynnari after being shunned by his Craftworld.
	**[[Kaldor Draigo]]. [[Bullshit\|Wrote his mentor's name into Mortarion's heart]] without contracting Spess AIDS, or being fucking destroyed by said Primarch which despite each of those 19 (21?) being capable of rolling through a squad of Custodes without too much effort. Then he got schllupped into the Warp and somehow remains pure.		**[[Kaldor Draigo]]. [[Bullshit\|Wrote his mentor's name into Mortarion's heart]] without contracting Spess AIDS, or being fucking destroyed by said Primarch which despite each of those 19 (21?) being capable of rolling through a squad of Custodes without too much effort. Then he got schllupped into the Warp and somehow remains pure.
	***Like Sicarius, other authors have taken steps to reduce the Sue factor of Draigo by showing him as a moderately flawed character and retconning some of the more egregiously Sue-ish moments - see the 'Placed in the hands of other authors' section of his page for examples of this.		***Like Sicarius, other authors have taken steps to reduce the Sue factor of Draigo by showing him as a moderately flawed character and retconning some of the more egregiously Sue-ish moments - see the 'Placed in the hands of other authors' section of his page for examples of this.
	**[[Marneus Calgar]], especially post-Ward. Killing an Avatar of Khaine by punching its chest in and not getting seriously hurt in said fight with one. An Avatar of Khaine is supposed to be as hard to kill as a Bloodthirster, something that takes a Primarch or a Bio-Titan to beat in a one-on-one fight (then again, Games Workshop loves [[Worf\|worfing]] Avatars, and Space Marines are their Creator's Pet). Calgar had his limbs chopped off by the Swarmlord, which didn't kill him due to Plot Armor, and he leads the Ultramarines, themselves considered a Mary Sue chapter in a Mary Sue faction (see the Space Marine entry on this page). These are just the first few examples.		**[[Marneus Calgar]], especially post-Ward. Killing an Avatar of Khaine by punching its chest in and not getting seriously hurt in said fight with one. An Avatar of Khaine is supposed to be as hard to kill as a Bloodthirster, something that takes a Primarch or a Bio-Titan to beat in a one-on-one fight (then again, Games Workshop loves [[Worf\|worfing]] Avatars, and Space Marines are their Creator's Pet). Calgar had his limbs chopped off by the Swarmlord, which didn't kill him due to Plot Armor, and he leads the Ultramarines, themselves considered a Mary Sue chapter in a Mary Sue faction (see the Space Marine entry on this page). These are just the first few examples.
	**[[Captain Matthias Ward]], I am the better Mary-Sue.		**[[Captain Matthias Ward]], I am the better Mary-Sue.
	**The [[Primarch]]s <s>and their [[Warhammer High\|daughters]].</s>{{BLAM\|'''THOSE WORDS ARE BLASPHEMY! /tg/ can only create perfection!'''}} (To be fair, the daughters are only Sues in that they inherited their Sue traits from their fathers.)		**The [[Primarch]]s <s>and their [[Warhammer High\|daughters]].</s>{{BLAM\|'''THOSE WORDS ARE BLASPHEMY! /tg/ can only create perfection!'''}} (To be fair, the daughters are only Sues in that they inherited their Sue traits from their fathers.)

List of Mary Sues - Revision history

185.220.101.161 at 16:02, 20 May 2026

imported>Administrator: 681 revisions imported

imported>Administrator: 1 revision imported

1d4chan>Flutist: /* Mary Sues Case Studies */

63.193.173.168: /* Somewhat Special Cases of "Not Quite Sues" */ grammer and stuff

1d4chan>King Crimson: Nah fan, i'm *not* letting you cook if you know what i mean

147.135.78.229: it's not rape if she likes it, literally - that was the old style

1d4chan>Saarlacfunkel: Seems to be more a case of "Edgy", not "Mary Sue"

2A02:1808:4:BED9:CAF6:6AE0:E083:5B: /* Mary Sues Case Studies */

1d4chan>Fikilili: /* Mary Sues Case Studies */

1d4chan>King Crimson: Nah fan, i'm not letting you cook if you know what i mean