Ludonarrative dissonance - Revision history

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1d4chan>Saarlacfunkel at 15:20, 1 October 2020

2020-10-01T15:20:59Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:20, 1 October 2020
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	What is "Ludonarrative Dissonance"? A really stupid term from video-game discourse that has very little to do with /v/, "Ludonarrative dissonance" is just a highfallutin' way of saying that a vidya game is not about what its story claims to be about. ("Ludo" is a Latin word meaning "game", btw.)		What is "Ludonarrative Dissonance"? A really stupid term from video-game discourse that has very little to do with /v/, "Ludonarrative dissonance" is just a highfallutin' way of saying that a vidya game is not about what its story claims to be about. ("Ludo" is a Latin word meaning "game", btw.)

	Originally misused for a perceived problem in ''Bioshock'', where the ''actual'' intended message actually melds fairly well with its gameplay: "The Randian Superman is not who Ayn Rand thought he is", "Player agency in video games is weird" and "Superpowers are awesome, but real world problematic". The other game series usually associated with the word, ''Uncharted'', involves the lead character killing loads and loads of guys '''in self defense''' in gameplay and being a charming rogue in cutscenes, which ''might'' be dissonant if not for that whole "self-defense" thing.		Originally misused for a perceived problem in ''Bioshock'', where the ''actual'' intended message actually melds fairly well with its gameplay: "The Randian Superman is not who Ayn Rand thought he is", "Player agency in video games is weird" and "Superpowers are awesome, but real world problematic". The other game series usually associated with the word, ''Uncharted'', involves the lead character killing loads and loads of guys '''in self defense''' in gameplay and being a charming rogue in cutscenes, which ''might'' be dissonant if not for that whole "self-defense" thing.<ref>That being said, the accusation is probably fairly applied to violent games with the ''main'' intended moral of "Violence is bad, 'mmkay?". Such a message is usually going to ring hollow if the only tools the game provides the player are violence in a linear corridor. The ''only'' ways that sort of message works in a violent game is if the player had a choice in the matter besides "turn off the console", the hypocrisy is acknowledged, or the anti-violence theme is secondary to another, less hypocritical one.</ref>

	For some actual cases of Ludonarrative dissonance, go look up our frienemies [[TVTropes]] list on the matter, "Gameplay and Story Segregation", which covers many of the more noticeable situations.		For some actual cases of Ludonarrative dissonance, go look up our frienemies [[TVTropes]] list on the matter, "Gameplay and Story Segregation", which covers many of the more noticeable situations.
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	* In [[Warhammer 40k]], the vast power-level of armies and soldiers in the lore makes the actual battles a bit weird for some people. Space Marines in particular are often presented as nigh-unstoppable in the lore, but can be defeated by a [[Lasgun\|laser pointer]] on the tabletop. 40k is a game first and foremost so of course each faction has to be balanced with the rest, but that doesn't stop certain grognards from loudly claiming five Space Marines should be able to kill thirty-strong mobs of [[Ork Boyz]] or the game just doesn't work for them.		* In [[Warhammer 40k]], the vast power-level of armies and soldiers in the lore makes the actual battles a bit weird for some people. Space Marines in particular are often presented as nigh-unstoppable in the lore, but can be defeated by a [[Lasgun\|laser pointer]] on the tabletop. 40k is a game first and foremost so of course each faction has to be balanced with the rest, but that doesn't stop certain grognards from loudly claiming five Space Marines should be able to kill thirty-strong mobs of [[Ork Boyz]] or the game just doesn't work for them.
	** [[Warhammer Fantasy]] solved this problem by not sucking the dick of any one faction in particular and accept that sometimes the cool [[Warriors of Chaos\|Chaos Warrior]] will die to an errant, bent arrow fired by some peasant archer with polio and no teeth.		** [[Warhammer Fantasy]] solved this problem by not sucking the dick of any one faction in particular and accept that sometimes the cool [[Warriors of Chaos\|Chaos Warrior]] will die to an errant, bent arrow fired by some peasant archer with polio and no teeth.

			==Footnote==

	[[Category:Gamer Slang]]		[[Category:Gamer Slang]]

1d4chan>Ћ Professional at 15:17, 12 September 2020

2020-09-12T15:17:25Z

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	If you didn't already know, we're huge nerds on this site, and that means that we like to discuss the things we nerd out at, a lot. One of the things that often comes up is ludonarrative dissonance.		If you didn't already know, we're huge nerds on this site, and that means that we like to discuss the things we nerd out at, a lot. One of the things that often comes up is ludonarrative dissonance.

1d4chan>Saarlacfunkel at 05:13, 12 September 2020

2020-09-12T05:13:23Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:13, 12 September 2020
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	What is "Ludonarrative Dissonance"? A really stupid term from video-game discourse that has very little to do with /v/, "Ludonarrative dissonance" is just a highfallutin' way of saying that a vidya game is not about what its story claims to be about. ("Ludo" is a Latin word meaning "game", btw.)		What is "Ludonarrative Dissonance"? A really stupid term from video-game discourse that has very little to do with /v/, "Ludonarrative dissonance" is just a highfallutin' way of saying that a vidya game is not about what its story claims to be about. ("Ludo" is a Latin word meaning "game", btw.)

	Originally misused for a perceived problem in Bioshock, where the ''actual'' intended message actually melds fairly well with its gameplay: "The Randian Superman is not who Ayn Rand thought he is", "Player agency in video games is weird" and "Superpowers are awesome, but real world problematic". The other game series usually associated with the word, Uncharted, involves the lead character killing ~~'''~~loads and loads~~'''~~ of guys ''in self defense'' in gameplay and being a charming rogue in cutscenes, which ''might'' be dissonant if not for that whole "self-defense" thing.		Originally misused for a perceived problem in ''Bioshock'', where the ''actual'' intended message actually melds fairly well with its gameplay: "The Randian Superman is not who Ayn Rand thought he is", "Player agency in video games is weird" and "Superpowers are awesome, but real world problematic". The other game series usually associated with the word, ''Uncharted'', involves the lead character killing loads and loads of guys '''in self defense''' in gameplay and being a charming rogue in cutscenes, which ''might'' be dissonant if not for that whole "self-defense" thing.

	For some actual cases of Ludonarrative dissonance, go look up our frienemies [[TVTropes]] list on the matter, "Gameplay and Story Segregation", which covers many of the more noticeable situations.		For some actual cases of Ludonarrative dissonance, go look up our frienemies [[TVTropes]] list on the matter, "Gameplay and Story Segregation", which covers many of the more noticeable situations.

1d4chan>Saarlacfunkel at 15:34, 1 July 2020

2020-07-01T15:34:20Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:34, 1 July 2020
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	** [[Warhammer Fantasy]] solved this problem by not sucking the dick of any one faction in particular and accept that sometimes the cool [[Warriors of Chaos\|Chaos Warrior]] will die to an errant, bent arrow fired by some peasant archer with polio and no teeth.		** [[Warhammer Fantasy]] solved this problem by not sucking the dick of any one faction in particular and accept that sometimes the cool [[Warriors of Chaos\|Chaos Warrior]] will die to an errant, bent arrow fired by some peasant archer with polio and no teeth.

	[[Category:Gamer ~~slang~~]]		[[Category:Gamer Slang]]

1d4chan>Saarlacfunkel at 15:34, 1 July 2020

2020-07-01T15:34:06Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:34, 1 July 2020
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	* In [[Warhammer 40k]], the vast power-level of armies and soldiers in the lore makes the actual battles a bit weird for some people. Space Marines in particular are often presented as nigh-unstoppable in the lore, but can be defeated by a [[Lasgun\|laser pointer]] on the tabletop. 40k is a game first and foremost so of course each faction has to be balanced with the rest, but that doesn't stop certain grognards from loudly claiming five Space Marines should be able to kill thirty-strong mobs of [[Ork Boyz]] or the game just doesn't work for them.		* In [[Warhammer 40k]], the vast power-level of armies and soldiers in the lore makes the actual battles a bit weird for some people. Space Marines in particular are often presented as nigh-unstoppable in the lore, but can be defeated by a [[Lasgun\|laser pointer]] on the tabletop. 40k is a game first and foremost so of course each faction has to be balanced with the rest, but that doesn't stop certain grognards from loudly claiming five Space Marines should be able to kill thirty-strong mobs of [[Ork Boyz]] or the game just doesn't work for them.
	** [[Warhammer Fantasy]] solved this problem by not sucking the dick of any one faction in particular and accept that sometimes the cool [[Warriors of Chaos\|Chaos Warrior]] will die to an errant, bent arrow fired by some peasant archer with polio and no teeth.		** [[Warhammer Fantasy]] solved this problem by not sucking the dick of any one faction in particular and accept that sometimes the cool [[Warriors of Chaos\|Chaos Warrior]] will die to an errant, bent arrow fired by some peasant archer with polio and no teeth.

			[[Category:Gamer slang]]

1d4chan>Saarlacfunkel at 11:25, 29 June 2020

2020-06-29T11:25:33Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:25, 29 June 2020
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	A really stupid term from video-game discourse that has very little to do with /v/, "Ludonarrative dissonance" is just a highfallutin' way of saying that a vidya game is not about what its story claims to be about. ("Ludo" is a Latin word meaning "game", btw.)		If you didn't already know, we're huge nerds on this site, and that means that we like to discuss the things we nerd out at, a lot. One of the things that often comes up is ludonarrative dissonance.

			What is "Ludonarrative Dissonance"? A really stupid term from video-game discourse that has very little to do with /v/, "Ludonarrative dissonance" is just a highfallutin' way of saying that a vidya game is not about what its story claims to be about. ("Ludo" is a Latin word meaning "game", btw.)

	Originally misused for a perceived problem in Bioshock, where the ''actual'' intended message actually melds fairly well with its gameplay: "The Randian Superman is not who Ayn Rand thought he is", "Player agency in video games is weird" and "Superpowers are awesome, but real world problematic". The other game series usually associated with the word, Uncharted, involves the lead character killing '''loads and loads''' of guys ''in self defense'' in gameplay and being a charming rogue in cutscenes, which ''might'' be dissonant if not for that whole "self-defense" thing.		Originally misused for a perceived problem in Bioshock, where the ''actual'' intended message actually melds fairly well with its gameplay: "The Randian Superman is not who Ayn Rand thought he is", "Player agency in video games is weird" and "Superpowers are awesome, but real world problematic". The other game series usually associated with the word, Uncharted, involves the lead character killing '''loads and loads''' of guys ''in self defense'' in gameplay and being a charming rogue in cutscenes, which ''might'' be dissonant if not for that whole "self-defense" thing.
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	==Okay, but why on this wiki tho?==		==Okay, but why on this wiki tho?==

	~~If you didn't already know, we're huge nerds on this site, and that means that we like to discuss the things we nerd out at, a lot. One of the things that often comes up is ludonarrative dissonance:~~

	That being said: What's this got to do with /tg/? Well, the problem of "not actually being about what it claims to be about" can be a problem in roleplaying. D&D, in particular, is usually held to be "claims to be about playing a role in a story" but actually "killing loads and loads of monsters".		That being said: What's this got to do with /tg/? Well, the problem of "not actually being about what it claims to be about" can be a problem in roleplaying. D&D, in particular, is usually held to be "claims to be about playing a role in a story" but actually "killing loads and loads of monsters".

1d4chan>Saarlacfunkel: Reordering to make more sense.

2020-06-29T10:15:54Z

Reordering to make more sense.

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:15, 29 June 2020
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	For some actual cases of Ludonarrative dissonance, go look up our frienemies [[TVTropes]] list on the matter, "Gameplay and Story Segregation", which covers many of the more noticeable situations.		For some actual cases of Ludonarrative dissonance, go look up our frienemies [[TVTropes]] list on the matter, "Gameplay and Story Segregation", which covers many of the more noticeable situations.

	==~~Okay, but why on this wiki tho~~?==		==You want an actual example?==

			You want an example that's probably not arguable? Alright. Let's say the story of the game or campaign is that you're the Chosen Heros of the Kingdom of Flobersnock, who will defeat the Generic Evil Overlord Who Seeks To Take Over The Known World With His Vast Army Of Evil Dragons.

	~~That being said: What's this got to do with /tg/? Well, the problem~~ of ~~"not actually being about~~ what ~~it claims to be about" can be a problem~~ in ~~roleplaying~~. ~~D&D~~, ~~in particular~~, is ~~usually held to be "claims to be about playing a role~~ in a ~~story" but actually "killing loads and loads of monsters"~~.		And then it turns out that 90% of what you do is petty fetch quests digging around in [[sewer]]s fighting rats. No, not giant ones, nor large packs of them. Just plain ol' rats. The Generic Evil yadda yadda is mainly fought in non-interactive cutscenes, except maybe for a brief final boss fight that only barely counts as interactive.

	~~Board games occasionally lie about what they're about as well: [[Monopoly]] isn't~~ a ~~game about real-estate development, it's a game about boredom, paying rent, and low-key stabbing your fellow players in the back to get it to end quicker~~.		That would probably be a good case of Ludonarrative Dissonance.

	~~"Ludonarrative dissonance" is still usually not a valid accusation~~, but ~~there are some actual cases, so be careful.~~		==Okay, but why on this wiki tho?==

	~~==You want an actual example?==~~		If you didn't already know, we're huge nerds on this site, and that means that we like to discuss the things we nerd out at, a lot. One of the things that often comes up is ludonarrative dissonance:

	~~You want a more specific example? Alright. Let~~'s ~~say~~ the ~~story~~ of ~~the game or campaign~~ is ~~that you're the Chosen Heros~~ of ~~the Kingdom of Flobersnock, who will defeat the Generic Evil Overlord Who Seeks To Take Over The Known World With His Vast Army Of Evil Dragons~~.		That being said: What's this got to do with /tg/? Well, the problem of "not actually being about what it claims to be about" can be a problem in roleplaying. D&D, in particular, is usually held to be "claims to be about playing a role in a story" but actually "killing loads and loads of monsters".

	~~And then it turns out that 90% of~~ what ~~you do is petty fetch quests digging around in~~ [[~~sewer~~]]s ~~fighting rats. No~~, ~~not giant ones~~, ~~nor large packs of them. Just plain ol' rats. The Generic Evil yadda yadda is mainly fought~~ in ~~non-interactive cutscenes, except maybe for a brief final boss fight that only barely counts as interactive~~.		Board games also occasionally lie about what they're about as well: [[Monopoly]] isn't a game about real-estate development, it's a game about boredom, paying rent, and low-key stabbing your fellow players in the back to get it to end quicker.

	~~That would probably~~ be ~~a good case of Ludonarrative Dissonance~~.		"Ludonarrative dissonance" is still usually not a valid accusation, but there are some actual cases, so be careful.

	===/tg/ Examples===		===More specific /tg/ Examples===
	~~If you didn't already know, we're huge nerds on this site, and that means that we like to discuss the things we nerd out at, a lot. One of the things that often comes up is ludonarrative dissonance:~~

	* In [[Warhammer 40k]], the vast power-level of armies and soldiers in the lore makes the actual battles a bit weird for some people. Space Marines in particular are often presented as nigh-unstoppable in the lore, but can be defeated by a [[Lasgun\|laser pointer]] on the tabletop. 40k is a game first and foremost so of course each faction has to be balanced with the rest, but that doesn't stop certain grognards from loudly claiming five Space Marines should be able to kill thirty-strong mobs of [[Ork Boyz]] or the game just doesn't work for them.		* In [[Warhammer 40k]], the vast power-level of armies and soldiers in the lore makes the actual battles a bit weird for some people. Space Marines in particular are often presented as nigh-unstoppable in the lore, but can be defeated by a [[Lasgun\|laser pointer]] on the tabletop. 40k is a game first and foremost so of course each faction has to be balanced with the rest, but that doesn't stop certain grognards from loudly claiming five Space Marines should be able to kill thirty-strong mobs of [[Ork Boyz]] or the game just doesn't work for them.
	** [[Warhammer Fantasy]] solved this problem by not sucking the dick of any one faction in particular and accept that sometimes the cool [[Warriors of Chaos\|Chaos Warrior]] will die to an errant, bent arrow fired by some peasant archer with polio and no teeth.		** [[Warhammer Fantasy]] solved this problem by not sucking the dick of any one faction in particular and accept that sometimes the cool [[Warriors of Chaos\|Chaos Warrior]] will die to an errant, bent arrow fired by some peasant archer with polio and no teeth.

1d4chan>Saarlacfunkel: /* Okay, but why on this wiki tho? */

2020-06-29T10:09:34Z

Okay, but why on this wiki tho?

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:09, 29 June 2020
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	"Ludonarrative dissonance" is still usually not a valid accusation, but there are some actual cases, so be careful.		"Ludonarrative dissonance" is still usually not a valid accusation, but there are some actual cases, so be careful.


	==You want an actual example?==		==You want an actual example?==