M60 Patton - Revision history

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2023-06-21T17:20:47Z

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2001:67C:2660:425:25:0:0:14E: /* USA */ update

2023-02-16T05:47:23Z

USA: update

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:47, 16 February 2023
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	First employed by American forces in the 1950s, the M60 Patton remains the mainstay of U.S. Army tankers in 1985 and is the sole main battle tank operated by the U.S. Marine Corps. Caught five years into the process of phasing its M60s out in favor of the newer and better M1 Abrams (introduced in 1980), the U.S. Army has waded into the fighting with a sizeable fleet of Pattons. The Marines, meanwhile, still having to make do with the second-hand stuff, will be enthusiastically destroying things that somebody else has to pay for, old tanks be damned. The M60 Patton may not be as good as it once was in 1985, but it's a workhorse and that's good enough.		First employed by American forces in the 1950s, the M60 Patton remains the mainstay of U.S. Army tankers in 1985 and is the sole main battle tank operated by the U.S. Marine Corps. Caught five years into the process of phasing its M60s out in favor of the newer and better M1 Abrams (introduced in 1980), the U.S. Army has waded into the fighting with a sizeable fleet of Pattons. The Marines, meanwhile, still having to make do with the second-hand stuff, will be enthusiastically destroying things that somebody else has to pay for, old tanks be damned. The M60 Patton may not be as good as it once was in 1985, but it's a workhorse and that's good enough.

	Despite being a vastly different and considerably older design, the M60 Patton is basically armed with the same weapons systems as the [[M1 Abrams\|Abrams]] (sans one .30cal) and can dish out the same damage ~~as its successor~~. The M68 105mm Cannon has a ROF of 2 both moving and staying still, meaning the M60 can use its mobility while still being capable of engaging targets. The ''Laser Rangefinder'' rule allows the ~~M60~~ to engage targets beyond 16 inches without adding +1 to your shooting rolls. The AT of 20 is more than enough to punch right through anything lighter than an MBT and stands a decent chance of damaging things like the [[T-72]]. With ~~the best~~ Soviet armor ~~coming in~~ at frontal 17, you may decide to complement your tanks with a few ATGMs to reliably punch through a line of tanks.		Despite being a vastly different and considerably older design, the M60 Patton is basically armed with the same weapons systems as the older model [[M1 Abrams\|Abrams]] (sans one .30cal) and can dish out the same damage. The M68 105mm Cannon has a ROF of 2 both moving and staying still, meaning the M60 can use its mobility while still being capable of engaging targets. The ''Laser Rangefinder'' rule allows the M60A3 to engage targets beyond 16 inches without adding +1 to your shooting rolls. The AT of 20 is more than enough to punch right through anything lighter than an MBT and stands a decent chance of damaging things like the [[T-72]]. With increasing amounts of Soviet armor available at frontal 18, you may decide to complement your tanks with a few ATGMs to reliably punch through a line of tanks.

	On the defensive, however, the M60 comes up a bit short. The Patton has front armor 15, only one more than the [[T55AM2]], which means that Soviet Tank guns will perforate it like an oversized balloon, to say nothing of ATGMs. The side armor is a similarly lackluster 8 (which is actually one less than a T55AM2 but still 2 better than the [[Chieftain]]) ~~and~~ it gets worse~~. The~~ M60 lacks any kind of additional protection, including Bazooka Skirts, so what you see is what you get on this thing. And coming as it does from the 1950s, the M60 Patton has no internal armor to shield the crew from an ammunition explosion, meaning that a hit on its 105mm shell storage will send the turret flying and kill everyone inside just as a similar hit would on a Warsaw Pact tank.		On the defensive, however, the M60 comes up a bit short. The Patton has front armor 15, only one more than the [[T55AM2]], which means that Soviet Tank guns will perforate it like an oversized balloon, to say nothing of ATGMs. The side armor is a similarly lackluster 8 (which is actually one less than a T55AM2 but still 2 better than the [[Chieftain]]), making it vulnerable even to some of the heavier autocannons. It gets worse, the M60 lacks any kind of additional protection, including Bazooka Skirts, so what you see is what you get on this thing. And coming as it does from the 1950s, the M60 Patton has no internal armor to shield the crew from an ammunition explosion, meaning that a hit on its 105mm shell storage will send the turret flying and kill everyone inside just as a similar hit would on a Warsaw Pact tank.

	While players may look at the obsolete armor that the Patton boasts- it's got the same frontal armor points as a T-72M, for Chrissakes- and run back to the Abrams, consider the point costs. ~~Each~~ Abrams costs ''double'' that of a Patton, i.e. 8pts compared to 4, meaning that a platoon of M1 tanks could translate to two platoons of M60s. With the effective doubling in firepower, players with a preference for damage or the ability to preserve their tanks using LOS blocking will find the Patton to be far more cost-effective.		While players may look at the obsolete armor that the Patton boasts- it's got the same frontal armor points as a T-72M, for Chrissakes- and run back to the Abrams, consider the point costs. Even the base Abrams costs ''double'' that of a Patton, i.e. 8pts compared to 4, (to say nothing of an M1A1HC) meaning that a platoon of M1 tanks could translate to two platoons of M60s. With the effective doubling or more in firepower, players with a preference for damage or the ability to preserve their tanks using LOS blocking will find the Patton to be far more cost-effective.

	U.S. Army and U.S. Marine tank units may take Patton Platoons ranging in size from 2 to 5. There is a lot to be said for buying two M60s instead of a single Abrams, although that does mean your NATO force suddenly gets expensive, model-wise.		U.S. Army and U.S. Marine tank units may take Patton Platoons ranging in size from 2 to 5. There is a lot to be said for buying two M60s instead of a single Abrams, although that does mean your NATO force suddenly gets expensive, model-wise. In the typical infantry heavy meta, players will often find they are a strictly better option than the Abrams with the spare points going for additional [[US Mech Platoon\|Mech Platoons]] or support instead.

	TL;DR: Cheaper, decent tank, but ~~it is much~~ more ~~fragile and must be shielded by~~ your ~~Abrams tanks~~.		TL;DR: Cheaper, decent tank, more fragile, but also more economical (for your list not your pocketbook).

	===Israel===		===Israel===

2601:5CC:8300:A7F0:50B1:F24:533A:86: /* IRL */ add a bit

2023-02-16T03:22:33Z

IRL: add a bit

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:22, 16 February 2023
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	Speaking of the M60A3, it was introduced in 1978 and stayed in service in Army National Guard units until 2005. It was the good old M60A1 with the 1975 RISE enhancements, plus true passive thermal night vision sights for the commander and gunner replacing the distinctive enormous infrared spotlight bolted on top of the turret you see on M60s, M60A1s, and M48s, a laser rangefinder, and the same terrifyingly lethal and efficient computerized fire control suite as early M1 Abrams tanks.		Speaking of the M60A3, it was introduced in 1978 and stayed in service in Army National Guard units until 2005. It was the good old M60A1 with the 1975 RISE enhancements, plus true passive thermal night vision sights for the commander and gunner replacing the distinctive enormous infrared spotlight bolted on top of the turret you see on M60s, M60A1s, and M48s, a laser rangefinder, and the same terrifyingly lethal and efficient computerized fire control suite as early M1 Abrams tanks.

	There were plans in the 1980s for further enhancements to keep the M60 in service longer due to teething problems with the earliest M1A1 tanks with the Rheinmetall 120mm smoothbore gun. Ideas for the hypothetical M60A4 ranged from shoehorning a 120mm gun into the turret--theoretically impossible, but Thailand and Turkey now field the M60T variant cobbled together for them by Elbit in Israel--to a variant with a smoothbore 105mm gun that could use the same ammunition but get higher velocities, to a variant with explosive reactive armor tiles, which ~~even in 2021~~ remains in service in Israel with reserve units, who call it the Mag'ach 7.		There were plans in the 1980s for further enhancements to keep the M60 in service longer due to teething problems with the earliest M1A1 tanks with the Rheinmetall 120mm smoothbore gun. Ideas for the hypothetical M60A4 ranged from shoehorning a 120mm gun into the turret--theoretically impossible, but Thailand and Turkey now field the M60T variant cobbled together for them by Elbit in Israel--to a variant with a smoothbore 105mm gun that could use the same ammunition but get higher velocities, to a variant with explosive reactive armor tiles, which remains in service in Israel with reserve units, who call it the Mag'ach 7.

	Even after that, the M60 stayed for a while, proving itself more than viable against Iraqi T-55s, Type 69s and T-72s during operations Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom, though that may have had more to do with crew proficiency than the vehicles themselves. The US finally retired its last M60s in 2005, and the M278 Combat Engineer Vehicle (a repurposed M60) is still soldiering on with the US Army Reserve and Army National Guard forces. Many armies still use them, namely Turkey and the Republic of China (Taiwan), along with Israel. The still-serving M60s have been modified and updated in a wide variety of ways; one version comes with 25mm auto cannons in place of the M2 machine gun and a 120mm cannons. Very lightly modified units are serving in the Syria conflict with better success than more advanced Leopard 2 tanks, though it should be noted that air superiority, artillery fire and near constant drone overwatch help a lot on this count.		Even after that, the M60 stayed for a while, proving itself more than viable against Iraqi T-55s, Type 69s and T-72s during operations Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom, though that may have had more to do with crew proficiency than the vehicles themselves. The US finally retired its last M60s in 2005, and the M278 Combat Engineer Vehicle (a repurposed M60) is still soldiering on with the US Army Reserve and Army National Guard forces. Many armies still use them, namely Turkey and the Republic of China (Taiwan), along with Israel. The still-serving M60s have been modified and updated in a wide variety of ways; one version comes with 25mm auto cannons in place of the M2 machine gun and a 120mm cannons. Very lightly modified units are serving in the Syria conflict with better success than more advanced Leopard 2 tanks, though it should be noted that air superiority, artillery fire and near constant drone overwatch help a lot on this count.

	Armor was around 130-200mm of RHA if memory serves, and it was PLANNED to have "Siliceous Cored Armor, but... Some ~~have been~~ fitted with explosive reactive armor tiles on the front and sides of the turret and the front of the hull, ~~mainly in~~ Israeli service.		Armor was around 130-200mm of RHA if memory serves, and it was PLANNED to have "Siliceous Cored Armor, but... Some were eventually fitted with explosive reactive armor tiles on the front and sides of the turret and the front of the hull; first seen in Israeli service during the 1982 Lebanon dust-up, by the late 1980s it was also being fielded extensively on American vehicles which went on to perform quite satisfactorily during the Gulf War. Since Israeli usage was already widespread by Team Yankee's 1985 start date we can expect that future expansions will eventually feature that variant as was done for the T-64, and given that AFVs that didn't see service until well into the 90s (not to mention numerous experimental AFVs) are already playable it's likely this option will also extend to American forces (most importantly it offers Battlefront Miniatures the opportunity to earn some additional profit).

	The M60 would have been unquestionably the American workhorse tank if World War III had broken out in 1985. It might have been old, and based closely on the even older M48, but it was still a potent threat for the Warsaw Pact forces. The U.S. Marine Corps had not received any M1 tanks yet in 1985, and neither had the U.S. Army Reserve or the Army National Guard. The M60 would have been the one doing most of the work, even if the Abrams was newer and has gotten so much more hype in the years since.		The M60 would have been unquestionably the American workhorse tank if World War III had broken out in 1985. It might have been old, and based closely on the even older M48, but it was still a potent threat for the Warsaw Pact forces. The U.S. Marine Corps had not received any M1 tanks yet in 1985, and neither had the U.S. Army Reserve or the Army National Guard. The M60 would have been the one doing most of the work, even if the Abrams was newer and has gotten so much more hype in the years since.

47.5.179.247 at 04:15, 2 January 2023

2023-01-02T04:15:39Z

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			{{America}}
	[[File:M60A1.png\|300px\|right\|thumb\|[[Meme\|Yo dawg, I heard you liked turrets]] ]]		[[File:M60A1.png\|300px\|right\|thumb\|[[Meme\|Yo dawg, I heard you liked turrets]] ]]
	{{topquote\|We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home.\|General George S. Patton, Jr.}}		{{topquote\|We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home.\|General George S. Patton, Jr.}}

2607:FB90:522A:4399:8CF9:DECA:D467:A4D at 14:40, 25 July 2022

2022-07-25T14:40:25Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:40, 25 July 2022
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	~~{{America}}~~
	[[File:M60A1.png\|300px\|right\|thumb\|[[Meme\|Yo dawg, I heard you liked turrets]] ]]		[[File:M60A1.png\|300px\|right\|thumb\|[[Meme\|Yo dawg, I heard you liked turrets]] ]]
	{{topquote\|We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home.\|General George S. Patton, Jr.}}		{{topquote\|We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home.\|General George S. Patton, Jr.}}

2607:FB90:522A:4399:8CF9:DECA:D467:A4D at 14:32, 25 July 2022

2022-07-25T14:32:34Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:32, 25 July 2022
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	{{~~American~~}}		{{America}}
	[[File:M60A1.png\|300px\|right\|thumb\|[[Meme\|Yo dawg, I heard you liked turrets]] ]]		[[File:M60A1.png\|300px\|right\|thumb\|[[Meme\|Yo dawg, I heard you liked turrets]] ]]
	{{topquote\|We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home.\|General George S. Patton, Jr.}}		{{topquote\|We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home.\|General George S. Patton, Jr.}}

2607:FB90:522A:4399:8CF9:DECA:D467:A4D at 14:31, 25 July 2022

2022-07-25T14:31:59Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:31, 25 July 2022
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			{{American}}
	[[File:M60A1.png\|300px\|right\|thumb\|[[Meme\|Yo dawg, I heard you liked turrets]] ]]		[[File:M60A1.png\|300px\|right\|thumb\|[[Meme\|Yo dawg, I heard you liked turrets]] ]]
	{{topquote\|We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home.\|General George S. Patton, Jr.}}		{{topquote\|We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home.\|General George S. Patton, Jr.}}

2601:5CC:8300:A7F0:C9:DBFA:1F5:89BD: /* IRL */ most conversations were done in the late 70s

2022-04-13T21:53:19Z

IRL: most conversations were done in the late 70s

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:53, 13 April 2022
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	==IRL==		==IRL==
	[[File:4EC947FC-1709-415A-8A77-873F40A7D520.jpeg\|300px\|right\|thumb\|An M60 in central Germany]]		[[File:4EC947FC-1709-415A-8A77-873F40A7D520.jpeg\|300px\|right\|thumb\|An M60 in central Germany]]
	The [[wikipedia:M60 Patton\|M60 Patton]] is essentially a dressed-up version of the older M48 Patton, developed in response to the T-54A after the Brits got to examine one up close during the Hungarian Revolution. This led to replacing the WWII-era 90mm cannon on the M48 with a 105mm cannon to match against the Soviets' 100mm guns. They could've just put the same cannon and updated systems on the M48, and in the ~~1980s~~ did that, calling that version the M48A5, but creating a new tank that isn't really new is more the U.S. Army's thing, you see.		The [[wikipedia:M60 Patton\|M60 Patton]] is essentially a dressed-up version of the older M48 Patton, developed in response to the T-54A after the Brits got to examine one up close during the Hungarian Revolution. This led to replacing the WWII-era 90mm cannon on the M48 with a 105mm cannon to match against the Soviets' 100mm guns. They could've just put the same cannon and updated systems on the M48, and in the 1970s did that, calling that version the M48A5, but creating a new tank that isn't really new is more the U.S. Army's thing, you see.

	The main reason for getting a new designation is that the M60 was supposed to be innovative, early designs planned on using composite armor and a combination gun and missile launcher (as seen on the Sheridan) mounted in a strange looking low profile turret called the Starship; ultimately pretty much all of these experimental features flopped in one way or another and so by the time the tank was fit for combat it was basically just back to where it started, an M48 with a bigger gun. With the elimination of the Light, Medium, and Heavy Tank classifications, the M60 became America's first Main Battle Tank. The M60 had been used throughout most of the Cold War until the introduction of the M1 Abrams that replaced it. The M60A1 which the Marine Corps used (and uses in the game) originally hit production in 1962, without a stabilized gun. In 1973 the M60A1 received an Add On Stabilizer (AOS), increasing its effectiveness, and the ancient Browning .30 caliber coaxial MG replaced with the M73 in 7.62mm NATO. This is the version of the M60 we see in Team Yankee with the US Marine Corps.		The main reason for getting a new designation is that the M60 was supposed to be innovative, early designs planned on using composite armor and a combination gun and missile launcher (as seen on the Sheridan) mounted in a strange looking low profile turret called the Starship; ultimately pretty much all of these experimental features flopped in one way or another and so by the time the tank was fit for combat it was basically just back to where it started, an M48 with a bigger gun. With the elimination of the Light, Medium, and Heavy Tank classifications, the M60 became America's first Main Battle Tank. The M60 had been used throughout most of the Cold War until the introduction of the M1 Abrams that replaced it. The M60A1 which the Marine Corps used (and uses in the game) originally hit production in 1962, without a stabilized gun. In 1973 the M60A1 received an Add On Stabilizer (AOS), increasing its effectiveness, and the ancient Browning .30 caliber coaxial MG replaced with the M73 in 7.62mm NATO. This is the version of the M60 we see in Team Yankee with the US Marine Corps.

1d4chan>MrPhantom: /* IRL */

2022-02-02T10:16:03Z

IRL

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:16, 2 February 2022
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	There were plans in the 1980s for further enhancements to keep the M60 in service longer due to teething problems with the earliest M1A1 tanks with the Rheinmetall 120mm smoothbore gun. Ideas for the hypothetical M60A4 ranged from shoehorning a 120mm gun into the turret--theoretically impossible, but Thailand and Turkey now field the M60T variant cobbled together for them by Elbit in Israel--to a variant with a smoothbore 105mm gun that could use the same ammunition but get higher velocities, to a variant with explosive reactive armor tiles, which even in 2021 remains in service in Israel with reserve units, who call it the Mag'ach 7.		There were plans in the 1980s for further enhancements to keep the M60 in service longer due to teething problems with the earliest M1A1 tanks with the Rheinmetall 120mm smoothbore gun. Ideas for the hypothetical M60A4 ranged from shoehorning a 120mm gun into the turret--theoretically impossible, but Thailand and Turkey now field the M60T variant cobbled together for them by Elbit in Israel--to a variant with a smoothbore 105mm gun that could use the same ammunition but get higher velocities, to a variant with explosive reactive armor tiles, which even in 2021 remains in service in Israel with reserve units, who call it the Mag'ach 7.

	Even after that, the M60 stayed for a while, proving itself more than viable against Iraqi T-55s, Type 69s and T-72s during operations Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom, though that may have had more to do with crew proficiency than the vehicles themselves. The US finally retired its last M60s in 2005, and the M278 Combat Engineer Vehicle (a repurposed M60) is still soldiering on with the US Army Reserve and Army National Guard forces. Many armies still use them, namely Turkey and the Republic of China (Taiwan), along with Israel. The still-serving M60s have been modified and updated in a wide variety of ways; one version comes with 25mm auto cannons in place of the M2 machine gun and a 120mm cannons. Very lightly modified units are serving in the Syria conflict with better success than more advanced Leopard 2 tanks.		Even after that, the M60 stayed for a while, proving itself more than viable against Iraqi T-55s, Type 69s and T-72s during operations Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom, though that may have had more to do with crew proficiency than the vehicles themselves. The US finally retired its last M60s in 2005, and the M278 Combat Engineer Vehicle (a repurposed M60) is still soldiering on with the US Army Reserve and Army National Guard forces. Many armies still use them, namely Turkey and the Republic of China (Taiwan), along with Israel. The still-serving M60s have been modified and updated in a wide variety of ways; one version comes with 25mm auto cannons in place of the M2 machine gun and a 120mm cannons. Very lightly modified units are serving in the Syria conflict with better success than more advanced Leopard 2 tanks, though it should be noted that air superiority, artillery fire and near constant drone overwatch help a lot on this count.

	Armor was around 130-200mm of RHA if memory serves, and it was PLANNED to have "Siliceous Cored Armor, but... Some have been fitted with explosive reactive armor tiles on the front and sides of the turret and the front of the hull, mainly in Israeli service.		Armor was around 130-200mm of RHA if memory serves, and it was PLANNED to have "Siliceous Cored Armor, but... Some have been fitted with explosive reactive armor tiles on the front and sides of the turret and the front of the hull, mainly in Israeli service.