Phil Kelly - Revision history

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176.128.236.200 at 17:51, 18 November 2022

2022-11-18T17:51:51Z

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	He also wrote 'War of Secrets,' a Dark Angel book about Primaris Marines. This book also references the Farsight books, whilst giving us a look into Primaris and Dark Angel relations. Like his Farsight books there's a few interesting details scattered across a ton of shitty writing.		He also wrote 'War of Secrets,' a Dark Angel book about Primaris Marines. This book also references the Farsight books, whilst giving us a look into Primaris and Dark Angel relations. Like his Farsight books there's a few interesting details scattered across a ton of shitty writing.

			His ''[[Shadowsun]]'' book has been realesed and it's... apparently not that bad. The mustache-twirliness of the Etheral is dialed down to an acceptable level, auxiliaries appear and are well-presented, the T'au in general are presented as the misguided optimists their fans like them to be, while still maintaining their "we ask nicely now, we won't ask nicely next time" vibe.

	===Warhammer Fantasy Battle===		===Warhammer Fantasy Battle===

80.215.67.73 at 21:16, 9 September 2022

2022-09-09T21:16:04Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:16, 9 September 2022
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	More recently the issues with his fluff became more apparent, and the first notable example would be some of the issues surrounding Codex: Space Wolves. First and foremost, much of the fluff is frankly ridiculous, such as a story about scuba-diving Terminators or a handful of Space Wolves floating across space, breaking into a Chaos Space Marine flagship by hitting it, and then slaughtering all Chaos Space Marines onboard before using it to wipe out an entire Chaos fleet. Most of the non-Codex: Space Marines wargear has the word "Wolf" thrown in for no reason, such as '''Wolf''' Fangs, '''Wolf''' Necklaces, '''Wolf''' Tail Talismans, and, of course, '''wolf''' mounts. Yes, this Codex has Space '''Wolves''' ride giant Thunder'''wolves''' while acting like '''wolves''' with their '''wolf''' <s>'''wolf'''gear</s> wargear, while leading packs of Fenrisian '''Wolves''' (naturally their squads were later renamed '''packs''', as in a '''pack''' of '''wolves'''). While most of these options have been in the Codex for some time, heaping more '''Wolf''' options into the codex is an example of taking something [[Awesome]] and overdoing it, which is another problem with Kelly. Additionally, the Codex is an extreme example of "Codex Creep." It has a number of choices that are outright better than the Codex: Space Marines equivalents while costing much less, leading to the disappearance of vanilla Marines from competitive play. The most egregious examples are Grey Hunters (who have a bunch of special rules and equipment, including Wolf Guard Terminators as Sergeants, at a cheaper cost than vanilla's Tactical Squads) and Long Fangs (who have much greater firepower than the equivalent Devastator Squads but cost nearly the same).		More recently the issues with his fluff became more apparent, and the first notable example would be some of the issues surrounding Codex: Space Wolves. First and foremost, much of the fluff is frankly ridiculous, such as a story about scuba-diving Terminators or a handful of Space Wolves floating across space, breaking into a Chaos Space Marine flagship by hitting it, and then slaughtering all Chaos Space Marines onboard before using it to wipe out an entire Chaos fleet. Most of the non-Codex: Space Marines wargear has the word "Wolf" thrown in for no reason, such as '''Wolf''' Fangs, '''Wolf''' Necklaces, '''Wolf''' Tail Talismans, and, of course, '''wolf''' mounts. Yes, this Codex has Space '''Wolves''' ride giant Thunder'''wolves''' while acting like '''wolves''' with their '''wolf''' <s>'''wolf'''gear</s> wargear, while leading packs of Fenrisian '''Wolves''' (naturally their squads were later renamed '''packs''', as in a '''pack''' of '''wolves'''). While most of these options have been in the Codex for some time, heaping more '''Wolf''' options into the codex is an example of taking something [[Awesome]] and overdoing it, which is another problem with Kelly. Additionally, the Codex is an extreme example of "Codex Creep." It has a number of choices that are outright better than the Codex: Space Marines equivalents while costing much less, leading to the disappearance of vanilla Marines from competitive play. The most egregious examples are Grey Hunters (who have a bunch of special rules and equipment, including Wolf Guard Terminators as Sergeants, at a cheaper cost than vanilla's Tactical Squads) and Long Fangs (who have much greater firepower than the equivalent Devastator Squads but cost nearly the same).

	Unfortunately the pros listed above also ended up disappearing one by one, keeping at least some of the themes of the old armies, rather than [[Grey Knights\|give away all the mystery behind an army?]] Gone when he wrote the Deathwatch. Not trying [[Ultramarines\|to make a chapter into the greatest thing ever?]] Gone when he wrote Damnos. Not [[Necrons\|completely revamping existing armies to fit his tastes?]] Gone when he wrote Dark Eldar, Eldar, Farsight Enclaves, Deathwatch again and his Tau novels. Usually well written fluff that held true to the old armies? Gone when he wrote his Daemons codex and thrown into a fucking woodchipper when he wrote Farsight Enclaves and his Tau/Dark Angel novels. These Codices are covered below, but as a quick example of how he changes shit, while his description of the Dark Eldar as a whole is good, he introduced a mechanic that completely ruins the Eldar's entire identity as a species struggling to survive. It's so egregious that it makes you wonder why they're bitching about anything at all, as he effectively made the Dark Eldar one of the most numerous species in the galaxy because of it and there's no reason the Eldar can't use it.		Unfortunately the pros listed above also ended up disappearing one by one, keeping at least some of the themes of the old armies, rather than [[Grey Knights\|give away all the mystery behind an army?]] Gone when he wrote the Deathwatch. Not trying [[Ultramarines\|to make a chapter into the greatest thing ever?]] Gone when he wrote Damnos. Not [[Necrons\|completely revamping existing armies to fit his tastes?]] Gone when he wrote Dark Eldar, Eldar, Farsight Enclaves, Deathwatch again and his Tau novels. Usually well written fluff that held true to the old armies? Gone when he wrote his Daemons codex and thrown into a fucking woodchipper when he wrote Farsight Enclaves and his Tau/Dark Angel novels. These Codices are covered below, but as a quick example of how he changes shit, while his description of the Dark Eldar as a whole is good, he introduced a mechanic that completely ruins the Eldar's entire identity as a species struggling to survive. It's so egregious that it makes you wonder why they're bitching about anything at all, as he effectively made the Dark Eldar one of the most numerous species in the galaxy because of it and there's no reason the Eldar can't use it. [[Tau]] fans have a love-hate relationship with him, since on one hand, his Tau books are [[Skub\|divisive]] but on the ''other'' hand, he's also the only author who actually writes Tau stories.

	Another issue would be how his armies have very wobbly crunch, if you wanted to make 6th edition Chaos Space Marines competitive you can go Heldrakes and/or Nurgle or go home, whereas with the new Eldar codex you can spam vehicles and have essentially a guaranteed win against all comers lists. The armies ''do'' have good options, but many of the options need very specific scenarios to work and earn their points back (especially thanks to rampant over-costing), the Daemon army book for example can be really powerful if you roll decently, but a single bad roll on a mandatory table will have you lose the game regardless of how sound your game plan is. Mediocre units are fairly common in Phil Kelly books, including [[Counts as\|Mandrakes,]] Chosen, Possessed, Juggernauts, Grotesques, and so on. That's not to say the Codices are ''bad'', per se; rather, his Codices usually have one truly great build, one or two other builds that work all right, and a lot of builds that just don't work very well (leading to his books being referred to as "monobuild"). You won't win nearly every game ([[Eldar\|with a]] [[Space Wolves\|few aforementioned exceptions]]), but you won't typically lose because [[Robin Cruddace\|somebody took all]] [[Tyranids\|of your good units]] [[Carnifex\|and made them terrible for their cost]].		Another issue would be how his armies have very wobbly crunch, if you wanted to make 6th edition Chaos Space Marines competitive you can go Heldrakes and/or Nurgle or go home, whereas with the new Eldar codex you can spam vehicles and have essentially a guaranteed win against all comers lists. The armies ''do'' have good options, but many of the options need very specific scenarios to work and earn their points back (especially thanks to rampant over-costing), the Daemon army book for example can be really powerful if you roll decently, but a single bad roll on a mandatory table will have you lose the game regardless of how sound your game plan is. Mediocre units are fairly common in Phil Kelly books, including [[Counts as\|Mandrakes,]] Chosen, Possessed, Juggernauts, Grotesques, and so on. That's not to say the Codices are ''bad'', per se; rather, his Codices usually have one truly great build, one or two other builds that work all right, and a lot of builds that just don't work very well (leading to his books being referred to as "monobuild"). You won't win nearly every game ([[Eldar\|with a]] [[Space Wolves\|few aforementioned exceptions]]), but you won't typically lose because [[Robin Cruddace\|somebody took all]] [[Tyranids\|of your good units]] [[Carnifex\|and made them terrible for their cost]].

77.65.88.82: /* Warhammer 40k */ Eldar don't use phantom units, my guess it's a localisation for wraith units and someone didn't look it up

2022-01-16T22:07:42Z

Warhammer 40k: Eldar don't use phantom units, my guess it's a localisation for wraith units and someone didn't look it up

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:07, 16 January 2022
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	*Codex: [[Chaos Space Marines]] (3rd & 6th Edition). We knew the bucks we were paying were worth it. [[Abaddon\|Failbaddon]] [[/tg/ gets shit done\|is getting shit done]] and kicking Cadia's ass, possibly with the [[Primarchs]]. Possessed and [[Chaos Spawn\|the-ones-which-shall-not-be-named]] are better than last edition (though still not great). Motherfucking daemon dino-bots and a vector-striking robo-dragon flyer. The first 6th edition Codex and the first fully colored 40k Codex. To be fair, that was all fluff, the crunch was revealed to have some trouble areas, namely its internal balancing: Warp Talons and Mutilators are terminally useless whereas Heldrakes are second only to Vendettas as the best flyer in the game and can be game winners by themselves. Speaking to the former, he was one of its five writers, which might explain why 3.5 ed CSM was hands down '''THE BEST''' and stupidly, brokenly OP codex for CSM, making them the OP monsters we remember them as - with legion rules, an ''awesome'' wargear section and troops that were useful in the absence of ATSKNF. These were the days when Space Marine fanboys got bent over and raped by possessed dreadnoughts, infiltrating CSM blobs that guided Obliterator deep strikes, FA13 Defilers that could fix themselves on a 4+, '''cult terminators''' and [[Awesome\|predators fitted with blastmasters]]. Sigh, those were the days, granted it's unknown how much input he actually had compared to the other writers, and if his 6th edition version is anything to go by,bit probably wasn't much.		*Codex: [[Chaos Space Marines]] (3rd & 6th Edition). We knew the bucks we were paying were worth it. [[Abaddon\|Failbaddon]] [[/tg/ gets shit done\|is getting shit done]] and kicking Cadia's ass, possibly with the [[Primarchs]]. Possessed and [[Chaos Spawn\|the-ones-which-shall-not-be-named]] are better than last edition (though still not great). Motherfucking daemon dino-bots and a vector-striking robo-dragon flyer. The first 6th edition Codex and the first fully colored 40k Codex. To be fair, that was all fluff, the crunch was revealed to have some trouble areas, namely its internal balancing: Warp Talons and Mutilators are terminally useless whereas Heldrakes are second only to Vendettas as the best flyer in the game and can be game winners by themselves. Speaking to the former, he was one of its five writers, which might explain why 3.5 ed CSM was hands down '''THE BEST''' and stupidly, brokenly OP codex for CSM, making them the OP monsters we remember them as - with legion rules, an ''awesome'' wargear section and troops that were useful in the absence of ATSKNF. These were the days when Space Marine fanboys got bent over and raped by possessed dreadnoughts, infiltrating CSM blobs that guided Obliterator deep strikes, FA13 Defilers that could fix themselves on a 4+, '''cult terminators''' and [[Awesome\|predators fitted with blastmasters]]. Sigh, those were the days, granted it's unknown how much input he actually had compared to the other writers, and if his 6th edition version is anything to go by,bit probably wasn't much.
	*Codex: [[Chaos Daemons]] (6th Edition). Though the fluff is generally well written, it completely changes Daemons from how they used to be into something completely different (there's now a class system for no fucking reason with regular Daemons looking down upon Daemon Princes for example). The better parts make him a candidate for the [[Daemon Prince\|daemonhood]] reward (In said Codex, Phil actually hints in a plausible way that a [[Grey Knight]] has had a seed of doubt planted with in his mary-sue heart), whereas the worst parts and the crunch makes him a shoe in for the [[Chaos Spawn\|Something else entirely]]. The army plays like a horde army with cheap, disposable and deadly units all over the place and is a truly random force of destruction never before have games been won or lost just by a single roll. How fun this is depends entirely on how much you enjoy losing just because you rolled badly on a mandatory random chart.		*Codex: [[Chaos Daemons]] (6th Edition). Though the fluff is generally well written, it completely changes Daemons from how they used to be into something completely different (there's now a class system for no fucking reason with regular Daemons looking down upon Daemon Princes for example). The better parts make him a candidate for the [[Daemon Prince\|daemonhood]] reward (In said Codex, Phil actually hints in a plausible way that a [[Grey Knight]] has had a seed of doubt planted with in his mary-sue heart), whereas the worst parts and the crunch makes him a shoe in for the [[Chaos Spawn\|Something else entirely]]. The army plays like a horde army with cheap, disposable and deadly units all over the place and is a truly random force of destruction never before have games been won or lost just by a single roll. How fun this is depends entirely on how much you enjoy losing just because you rolled badly on a mandatory random chart.
	*Codex: [[Eldar]] (6th Edition). Take two! This time around, Eldar were buffed into the stratosphere, their weaponry will bring a rapetrain's worth of fun to the guys firing them and cause purest agony to the ones they are directed at (to the detriment of a casual game). The codex included buffs like Psyker Level 4 Eldrad, Lots of DS2 weapons, '''SHOOTING AND RUNNING''' (an ability for units across the board, however Phil has recently admitted Ward came up with the idea). Some new ~~phantom~~ units including '''THE BIGGEST''' fucking citadel model ever outside of Apocalypse! The main drawback was supposed to be their individual soldiers were weaker, but hey, if a unit kills its enemies before they could do anything then that unit doesn't have to fear enemy fire at all.		*Codex: [[Eldar]] (6th Edition). Take two! This time around, Eldar were buffed into the stratosphere, their weaponry will bring a rapetrain's worth of fun to the guys firing them and cause purest agony to the ones they are directed at (to the detriment of a casual game). The codex included buffs like Psyker Level 4 Eldrad, Lots of DS2 weapons, '''SHOOTING AND RUNNING''' (an ability for units across the board, however Phil has recently admitted Ward came up with the idea). Some new wraith units including '''THE BIGGEST''' fucking citadel model ever outside of Apocalypse! The main drawback was supposed to be their individual soldiers were weaker, but hey, if a unit kills its enemies before they could do anything then that unit doesn't have to fear enemy fire at all.
	**Special note on Codex Eldar: it's important to notice that only this codex has made obsolete almost every unit in the game that uses a cover save as its main save, as the basic eldar transport can fire d6+1 S7 shoots, usually twin-linked, that ignore cover from 60". It's a big irony that the same designer that restored Dark Eldar for the game has destroyed them completely using a single unit, a feat that even Matt Ward has never dreamed of. Stealth armours, darkshrouds, camo suits and many other items and units are also now useless. Better yet, almost every weapon in the army is semi rending so you will never see again fear a terminator suit. Phil Kelly changed the game forever with this codex, and many people still think that much more has been lost since then.		**Special note on Codex Eldar: it's important to notice that only this codex has made obsolete almost every unit in the game that uses a cover save as its main save, as the basic eldar transport can fire d6+1 S7 shoots, usually twin-linked, that ignore cover from 60". It's a big irony that the same designer that restored Dark Eldar for the game has destroyed them completely using a single unit, a feat that even Matt Ward has never dreamed of. Stealth armours, darkshrouds, camo suits and many other items and units are also now useless. Better yet, almost every weapon in the army is semi rending so you will never see again fear a terminator suit. Phil Kelly changed the game forever with this codex, and many people still think that much more has been lost since then.
	**It's also worth nothing he collected Eldar since 2nd edition, which explains why he "borrowed" all the lore from 2nd edition for his 4th edition book instead of writing his own stuff. That's what happens when you let fanboys write their own Codices (Eldar were arguably the strongest faction in 6th edition and retained that status in 7th. Phil's participation in recent Codex is unknown). Yeah, and you thought [[Robin Cruddace\|Treadhead]] was bad.		**It's also worth nothing he collected Eldar since 2nd edition, which explains why he "borrowed" all the lore from 2nd edition for his 4th edition book instead of writing his own stuff. That's what happens when you let fanboys write their own Codices (Eldar were arguably the strongest faction in 6th edition and retained that status in 7th. Phil's participation in recent Codex is unknown). Yeah, and you thought [[Robin Cruddace\|Treadhead]] was bad.

1d4chan>Triacom: Undo revision 752890 by 86.27.183.229 (talk)

2021-03-09T01:08:15Z

Undo revision 752890 by 86.27.183.229 (talk)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:08, 9 March 2021
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	*Army Book: [[Ogre Kingdoms]] (6th Edition). Kelly introduces a new very fun army with the single lowest model count in the game. While the book's crunch was average (nothing overpowered but at the same time you had a good chance at winning every game you played) the fluff was very good but surprisingly for Kelly was lacking in detail, though that could be argued as the Ogres not keeping very good records of their own history. Problems only started surfacing when the FAQ came out (which did things like add the "Move or Fire" rule to a character that didn't previously have that limitation) and further neuter units that were already struggling to find use on the tabletop.		*Army Book: [[Ogre Kingdoms]] (6th Edition). Kelly introduces a new very fun army with the single lowest model count in the game. While the book's crunch was average (nothing overpowered but at the same time you had a good chance at winning every game you played) the fluff was very good but surprisingly for Kelly was lacking in detail, though that could be argued as the Ogres not keeping very good records of their own history. Problems only started surfacing when the FAQ came out (which did things like add the "Move or Fire" rule to a character that didn't previously have that limitation) and further neuter units that were already struggling to find use on the tabletop.
	*Army Book: [[Beastmen]] (7th Edition) If Warzone Damnos is his worst 40K book, then Beastmen is his worst Fantasy book. The army went from having decent chances at winning games to the worst army in the entire game. Some of the rules were downright retarded, like needing two of the exact same unit to pull off an ambush, one of which would take no part in the ambush. The Beastmen themselves were also moved to a spot where the Chaos Gods and everyone else shit on them constantly, almost never blessing them with gifts to help get the job done, completely losing all access to any kind of mark (even in the lore it's explicitly stated they could not have them), and they even lost the ability to make themselves new weapons and armour. On the plus side he kept the theme of them being Chaos Anarchy embodied, and the book introduced several new monsters that have awesome fluff, great models, and would be auto includes if they weren't all hideously overpriced (coming in slightly under some dragons but nowhere near as useful).		*Army Book: [[Beastmen]] (7th Edition) If Warzone Damnos is his worst 40K book, then Beastmen is his worst Fantasy book. The army went from having decent chances at winning games to the worst army in the entire game. Some of the rules were downright retarded, like needing two of the exact same unit to pull off an ambush, one of which would take no part in the ambush. The Beastmen themselves were also moved to a spot where the Chaos Gods and everyone else shit on them constantly, almost never blessing them with gifts to help get the job done, completely losing all access to any kind of mark (even in the lore it's explicitly stated they could not have them), and they even lost the ability to make themselves new weapons and armour. On the plus side he kept the theme of them being Chaos Anarchy embodied, and the book introduced several new monsters that have awesome fluff, great models, and would be auto includes if they weren't all hideously overpriced (coming in slightly under some dragons but nowhere near as useful).
	*Army Book: [[Warriors of Chaos]] (7th Edition). Pretty damn good on the rules side. He gave them some nifty special characters such as Valkia, Sigvald and Wulfric. And it had the [[Awesome\|Viking drinking song/saga of Khalac Swordsson in it]]. The fluff is hit or miss. Some negatives include a lot of repetition (take a drink every time he uses "heady" or "plaything") and a few dubious retcon attempts like claiming the Everchosen Asavar Kul got literally backstabbed and thrown off a wall by one of his lieutenants. It tries hard, often [[edgy\|too hard]], to make the Warriors of Chaos seem dark, menacing, and evil, with [[skub\|mixed]] [[grimderp\|success]].		*Army Book: [[Warriors of Chaos]] (7th Edition). Pretty damn good on the rules side. He gave them some nifty special characters such as Valkia, Sigvald and Wulfric. And it had the [[Awesome\|Viking drinking song/saga of Khalac Swordsson in it]]. The fluff is hit or miss. Some negatives include a lot of repetition (take a drink every time he uses "heady" or "plaything") and a few dubious retcon attempts, like claiming the Everchosen Asavar Kul got literally backstabbed and thrown off a wall by one of his lieutenants. It tries hard, often [[edgy\|too hard]], to make the Warriors of Chaos seem dark, menacing, and evil, with [[skub\|mixed]] [[grimderp\|success]].
	*Army Book: [[Vampire Counts]] (8th edition). A fairly decent release, it removed some of the cheese that the old one had (not to say it didn't have its own variety), added some more untold horrors upon the old world, and with Storm of Chaos being retconned into not happening he then (like the rest of the new Army Books) added a bit to advance the plot of Warhammer Fantasy. A bit of fluff in the codex has Mannfred conspiring with Kemmler to resurrect [[Nagash]] in a ritual involving a battle, the abduction and sacrifice of the High Elf Everqueen's daughter, which is one of the events leading to [[The End Times]]. This also disrupted an attempt at reconciliation between the High Elves and Dwarfs.		*Army Book: [[Vampire Counts]] (8th edition). A fairly decent release, it removed some of the cheese that the old one had (not to say it didn't have its own variety), added some more untold horrors upon the old world, and with Storm of Chaos being retconned into not happening he then (like the rest of the new Army Books) added a bit to advance the plot of Warhammer Fantasy. A bit of fluff in the codex has Mannfred conspiring with Kemmler to resurrect [[Nagash]] in a ritual involving a battle, the abduction and sacrifice of the High Elf Everqueen's daughter, which is one of the events leading to [[The End Times]]. This also disrupted an attempt at reconciliation between the High Elves and Dwarfs.

86.27.183.229: Undo revision 752887 by Triacom (talk)

2021-03-09T01:04:39Z

Undo revision 752887 by Triacom (talk)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:04, 9 March 2021
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	*Army Book: [[Ogre Kingdoms]] (6th Edition). Kelly introduces a new very fun army with the single lowest model count in the game. While the book's crunch was average (nothing overpowered but at the same time you had a good chance at winning every game you played) the fluff was very good but surprisingly for Kelly was lacking in detail, though that could be argued as the Ogres not keeping very good records of their own history. Problems only started surfacing when the FAQ came out (which did things like add the "Move or Fire" rule to a character that didn't previously have that limitation) and further neuter units that were already struggling to find use on the tabletop.		*Army Book: [[Ogre Kingdoms]] (6th Edition). Kelly introduces a new very fun army with the single lowest model count in the game. While the book's crunch was average (nothing overpowered but at the same time you had a good chance at winning every game you played) the fluff was very good but surprisingly for Kelly was lacking in detail, though that could be argued as the Ogres not keeping very good records of their own history. Problems only started surfacing when the FAQ came out (which did things like add the "Move or Fire" rule to a character that didn't previously have that limitation) and further neuter units that were already struggling to find use on the tabletop.
	*Army Book: [[Beastmen]] (7th Edition) If Warzone Damnos is his worst 40K book, then Beastmen is his worst Fantasy book. The army went from having decent chances at winning games to the worst army in the entire game. Some of the rules were downright retarded, like needing two of the exact same unit to pull off an ambush, one of which would take no part in the ambush. The Beastmen themselves were also moved to a spot where the Chaos Gods and everyone else shit on them constantly, almost never blessing them with gifts to help get the job done, completely losing all access to any kind of mark (even in the lore it's explicitly stated they could not have them), and they even lost the ability to make themselves new weapons and armour. On the plus side he kept the theme of them being Chaos Anarchy embodied, and the book introduced several new monsters that have awesome fluff, great models, and would be auto includes if they weren't all hideously overpriced (coming in slightly under some dragons but nowhere near as useful).		*Army Book: [[Beastmen]] (7th Edition) If Warzone Damnos is his worst 40K book, then Beastmen is his worst Fantasy book. The army went from having decent chances at winning games to the worst army in the entire game. Some of the rules were downright retarded, like needing two of the exact same unit to pull off an ambush, one of which would take no part in the ambush. The Beastmen themselves were also moved to a spot where the Chaos Gods and everyone else shit on them constantly, almost never blessing them with gifts to help get the job done, completely losing all access to any kind of mark (even in the lore it's explicitly stated they could not have them), and they even lost the ability to make themselves new weapons and armour. On the plus side he kept the theme of them being Chaos Anarchy embodied, and the book introduced several new monsters that have awesome fluff, great models, and would be auto includes if they weren't all hideously overpriced (coming in slightly under some dragons but nowhere near as useful).
	*Army Book: [[Warriors of Chaos]] (7th Edition). Pretty damn good on the rules side. He gave them some nifty special characters such as Valkia, Sigvald and Wulfric. And it had the [[Awesome\|Viking drinking song/saga of Khalac Swordsson in it]]. The fluff is hit or miss. Some negatives include a lot of repetition (take a drink every time he uses "heady" or "plaything") and a few dubious retcon attempts, like claiming the Everchosen Asavar Kul got literally backstabbed and thrown off a wall by one of his lieutenants. It tries hard, often [[edgy\|too hard]], to make the Warriors of Chaos seem dark, menacing, and evil, with [[skub\|mixed]] [[grimderp\|success]].		*Army Book: [[Warriors of Chaos]] (7th Edition). Pretty damn good on the rules side. He gave them some nifty special characters such as Valkia, Sigvald and Wulfric. And it had the [[Awesome\|Viking drinking song/saga of Khalac Swordsson in it]]. The fluff is hit or miss. Some negatives include a lot of repetition (take a drink every time he uses "heady" or "plaything") and a few dubious retcon attempts like claiming the Everchosen Asavar Kul got literally backstabbed and thrown off a wall by one of his lieutenants. It tries hard, often [[edgy\|too hard]], to make the Warriors of Chaos seem dark, menacing, and evil, with [[skub\|mixed]] [[grimderp\|success]].
	*Army Book: [[Vampire Counts]] (8th edition). A fairly decent release, it removed some of the cheese that the old one had (not to say it didn't have its own variety), added some more untold horrors upon the old world, and with Storm of Chaos being retconned into not happening he then (like the rest of the new Army Books) added a bit to advance the plot of Warhammer Fantasy. A bit of fluff in the codex has Mannfred conspiring with Kemmler to resurrect [[Nagash]] in a ritual involving a battle, the abduction and sacrifice of the High Elf Everqueen's daughter, which is one of the events leading to [[The End Times]]. This also disrupted an attempt at reconciliation between the High Elves and Dwarfs.		*Army Book: [[Vampire Counts]] (8th edition). A fairly decent release, it removed some of the cheese that the old one had (not to say it didn't have its own variety), added some more untold horrors upon the old world, and with Storm of Chaos being retconned into not happening he then (like the rest of the new Army Books) added a bit to advance the plot of Warhammer Fantasy. A bit of fluff in the codex has Mannfred conspiring with Kemmler to resurrect [[Nagash]] in a ritual involving a battle, the abduction and sacrifice of the High Elf Everqueen's daughter, which is one of the events leading to [[The End Times]]. This also disrupted an attempt at reconciliation between the High Elves and Dwarfs.

1d4chan>Triacom: Undo revision 752881 by 86.27.183.229 (talk)

2021-03-09T00:40:19Z

Undo revision 752881 by 86.27.183.229 (talk)

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:40, 9 March 2021
Line 36:		Line 36:
	*Army Book: [[Ogre Kingdoms]] (6th Edition). Kelly introduces a new very fun army with the single lowest model count in the game. While the book's crunch was average (nothing overpowered but at the same time you had a good chance at winning every game you played) the fluff was very good but surprisingly for Kelly was lacking in detail, though that could be argued as the Ogres not keeping very good records of their own history. Problems only started surfacing when the FAQ came out (which did things like add the "Move or Fire" rule to a character that didn't previously have that limitation) and further neuter units that were already struggling to find use on the tabletop.		*Army Book: [[Ogre Kingdoms]] (6th Edition). Kelly introduces a new very fun army with the single lowest model count in the game. While the book's crunch was average (nothing overpowered but at the same time you had a good chance at winning every game you played) the fluff was very good but surprisingly for Kelly was lacking in detail, though that could be argued as the Ogres not keeping very good records of their own history. Problems only started surfacing when the FAQ came out (which did things like add the "Move or Fire" rule to a character that didn't previously have that limitation) and further neuter units that were already struggling to find use on the tabletop.
	*Army Book: [[Beastmen]] (7th Edition) If Warzone Damnos is his worst 40K book, then Beastmen is his worst Fantasy book. The army went from having decent chances at winning games to the worst army in the entire game. Some of the rules were downright retarded, like needing two of the exact same unit to pull off an ambush, one of which would take no part in the ambush. The Beastmen themselves were also moved to a spot where the Chaos Gods and everyone else shit on them constantly, almost never blessing them with gifts to help get the job done, completely losing all access to any kind of mark (even in the lore it's explicitly stated they could not have them), and they even lost the ability to make themselves new weapons and armour. On the plus side he kept the theme of them being Chaos Anarchy embodied, and the book introduced several new monsters that have awesome fluff, great models, and would be auto includes if they weren't all hideously overpriced (coming in slightly under some dragons but nowhere near as useful).		*Army Book: [[Beastmen]] (7th Edition) If Warzone Damnos is his worst 40K book, then Beastmen is his worst Fantasy book. The army went from having decent chances at winning games to the worst army in the entire game. Some of the rules were downright retarded, like needing two of the exact same unit to pull off an ambush, one of which would take no part in the ambush. The Beastmen themselves were also moved to a spot where the Chaos Gods and everyone else shit on them constantly, almost never blessing them with gifts to help get the job done, completely losing all access to any kind of mark (even in the lore it's explicitly stated they could not have them), and they even lost the ability to make themselves new weapons and armour. On the plus side he kept the theme of them being Chaos Anarchy embodied, and the book introduced several new monsters that have awesome fluff, great models, and would be auto includes if they weren't all hideously overpriced (coming in slightly under some dragons but nowhere near as useful).
	*Army Book: [[Warriors of Chaos]] (7th Edition). Pretty damn good on the rules side. He gave them some nifty special characters such as Valkia, Sigvald and Wulfric. And it had the [[Awesome\|Viking drinking song/saga of Khalac Swordsson in it]]. The fluff is hit or miss. Some negatives include a lot of repetition (take a drink every time he uses "heady" or "plaything") and a few dubious retcon attempts like claiming the Everchosen Asavar Kul got literally backstabbed and thrown off a wall by one of his lieutenants. It tries hard, often [[edgy\|too hard]], to make the Warriors of Chaos seem dark, menacing, and evil, with [[skub\|mixed]] [[grimderp\|success]].		*Army Book: [[Warriors of Chaos]] (7th Edition). Pretty damn good on the rules side. He gave them some nifty special characters such as Valkia, Sigvald and Wulfric. And it had the [[Awesome\|Viking drinking song/saga of Khalac Swordsson in it]]. The fluff is hit or miss. Some negatives include a lot of repetition (take a drink every time he uses "heady" or "plaything") and a few dubious retcon attempts, like claiming the Everchosen Asavar Kul got literally backstabbed and thrown off a wall by one of his lieutenants. It tries hard, often [[edgy\|too hard]], to make the Warriors of Chaos seem dark, menacing, and evil, with [[skub\|mixed]] [[grimderp\|success]].
	*Army Book: [[Vampire Counts]] (8th edition). A fairly decent release, it removed some of the cheese that the old one had (not to say it didn't have its own variety), added some more untold horrors upon the old world, and with Storm of Chaos being retconned into not happening he then (like the rest of the new Army Books) added a bit to advance the plot of Warhammer Fantasy. A bit of fluff in the codex has Mannfred conspiring with Kemmler to resurrect [[Nagash]] in a ritual involving a battle, the abduction and sacrifice of the High Elf Everqueen's daughter, which is one of the events leading to [[The End Times]]. This also disrupted an attempt at reconciliation between the High Elves and Dwarfs.		*Army Book: [[Vampire Counts]] (8th edition). A fairly decent release, it removed some of the cheese that the old one had (not to say it didn't have its own variety), added some more untold horrors upon the old world, and with Storm of Chaos being retconned into not happening he then (like the rest of the new Army Books) added a bit to advance the plot of Warhammer Fantasy. A bit of fluff in the codex has Mannfred conspiring with Kemmler to resurrect [[Nagash]] in a ritual involving a battle, the abduction and sacrifice of the High Elf Everqueen's daughter, which is one of the events leading to [[The End Times]]. This also disrupted an attempt at reconciliation between the High Elves and Dwarfs.

86.27.183.229: Undo revision 752878 by Triacom (talk)

2021-03-09T00:35:32Z

Undo revision 752878 by Triacom (talk)

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:35, 9 March 2021
Line 36:		Line 36:
	*Army Book: [[Ogre Kingdoms]] (6th Edition). Kelly introduces a new very fun army with the single lowest model count in the game. While the book's crunch was average (nothing overpowered but at the same time you had a good chance at winning every game you played) the fluff was very good but surprisingly for Kelly was lacking in detail, though that could be argued as the Ogres not keeping very good records of their own history. Problems only started surfacing when the FAQ came out (which did things like add the "Move or Fire" rule to a character that didn't previously have that limitation) and further neuter units that were already struggling to find use on the tabletop.		*Army Book: [[Ogre Kingdoms]] (6th Edition). Kelly introduces a new very fun army with the single lowest model count in the game. While the book's crunch was average (nothing overpowered but at the same time you had a good chance at winning every game you played) the fluff was very good but surprisingly for Kelly was lacking in detail, though that could be argued as the Ogres not keeping very good records of their own history. Problems only started surfacing when the FAQ came out (which did things like add the "Move or Fire" rule to a character that didn't previously have that limitation) and further neuter units that were already struggling to find use on the tabletop.
	*Army Book: [[Beastmen]] (7th Edition) If Warzone Damnos is his worst 40K book, then Beastmen is his worst Fantasy book. The army went from having decent chances at winning games to the worst army in the entire game. Some of the rules were downright retarded, like needing two of the exact same unit to pull off an ambush, one of which would take no part in the ambush. The Beastmen themselves were also moved to a spot where the Chaos Gods and everyone else shit on them constantly, almost never blessing them with gifts to help get the job done, completely losing all access to any kind of mark (even in the lore it's explicitly stated they could not have them), and they even lost the ability to make themselves new weapons and armour. On the plus side he kept the theme of them being Chaos Anarchy embodied, and the book introduced several new monsters that have awesome fluff, great models, and would be auto includes if they weren't all hideously overpriced (coming in slightly under some dragons but nowhere near as useful).		*Army Book: [[Beastmen]] (7th Edition) If Warzone Damnos is his worst 40K book, then Beastmen is his worst Fantasy book. The army went from having decent chances at winning games to the worst army in the entire game. Some of the rules were downright retarded, like needing two of the exact same unit to pull off an ambush, one of which would take no part in the ambush. The Beastmen themselves were also moved to a spot where the Chaos Gods and everyone else shit on them constantly, almost never blessing them with gifts to help get the job done, completely losing all access to any kind of mark (even in the lore it's explicitly stated they could not have them), and they even lost the ability to make themselves new weapons and armour. On the plus side he kept the theme of them being Chaos Anarchy embodied, and the book introduced several new monsters that have awesome fluff, great models, and would be auto includes if they weren't all hideously overpriced (coming in slightly under some dragons but nowhere near as useful).
	*Army Book: [[Warriors of Chaos]] (7th Edition). Pretty damn good on the rules side. He gave them some nifty special characters such as Valkia, Sigvald and Wulfric. And it had the [[Awesome\|Viking drinking song/saga of Khalac Swordsson in it]]. The fluff is hit or miss. Some negatives include a lot of repetition (take a drink every time he uses "heady" or "plaything") and a few dubious retcon attempts, like claiming the Everchosen Asavar Kul got literally backstabbed and thrown off a wall by one of his lieutenants. It tries hard, often [[edgy\|too hard]], to make the Warriors of Chaos seem dark, menacing, and evil, with [[skub\|mixed]] [[grimderp\|success]].		*Army Book: [[Warriors of Chaos]] (7th Edition). Pretty damn good on the rules side. He gave them some nifty special characters such as Valkia, Sigvald and Wulfric. And it had the [[Awesome\|Viking drinking song/saga of Khalac Swordsson in it]]. The fluff is hit or miss. Some negatives include a lot of repetition (take a drink every time he uses "heady" or "plaything") and a few dubious retcon attempts like claiming the Everchosen Asavar Kul got literally backstabbed and thrown off a wall by one of his lieutenants. It tries hard, often [[edgy\|too hard]], to make the Warriors of Chaos seem dark, menacing, and evil, with [[skub\|mixed]] [[grimderp\|success]].
	*Army Book: [[Vampire Counts]] (8th edition). A fairly decent release, it removed some of the cheese that the old one had (not to say it didn't have its own variety), added some more untold horrors upon the old world, and with Storm of Chaos being retconned into not happening he then (like the rest of the new Army Books) added a bit to advance the plot of Warhammer Fantasy. A bit of fluff in the codex has Mannfred conspiring with Kemmler to resurrect [[Nagash]] in a ritual involving a battle, the abduction and sacrifice of the High Elf Everqueen's daughter, which is one of the events leading to [[The End Times]]. This also disrupted an attempt at reconciliation between the High Elves and Dwarfs.		*Army Book: [[Vampire Counts]] (8th edition). A fairly decent release, it removed some of the cheese that the old one had (not to say it didn't have its own variety), added some more untold horrors upon the old world, and with Storm of Chaos being retconned into not happening he then (like the rest of the new Army Books) added a bit to advance the plot of Warhammer Fantasy. A bit of fluff in the codex has Mannfred conspiring with Kemmler to resurrect [[Nagash]] in a ritual involving a battle, the abduction and sacrifice of the High Elf Everqueen's daughter, which is one of the events leading to [[The End Times]]. This also disrupted an attempt at reconciliation between the High Elves and Dwarfs.

1d4chan>Triacom at 00:31, 9 March 2021

2021-03-09T00:31:43Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:31, 9 March 2021
Line 36:		Line 36:
	*Army Book: [[Ogre Kingdoms]] (6th Edition). Kelly introduces a new very fun army with the single lowest model count in the game. While the book's crunch was average (nothing overpowered but at the same time you had a good chance at winning every game you played) the fluff was very good but surprisingly for Kelly was lacking in detail, though that could be argued as the Ogres not keeping very good records of their own history. Problems only started surfacing when the FAQ came out (which did things like add the "Move or Fire" rule to a character that didn't previously have that limitation) and further neuter units that were already struggling to find use on the tabletop.		*Army Book: [[Ogre Kingdoms]] (6th Edition). Kelly introduces a new very fun army with the single lowest model count in the game. While the book's crunch was average (nothing overpowered but at the same time you had a good chance at winning every game you played) the fluff was very good but surprisingly for Kelly was lacking in detail, though that could be argued as the Ogres not keeping very good records of their own history. Problems only started surfacing when the FAQ came out (which did things like add the "Move or Fire" rule to a character that didn't previously have that limitation) and further neuter units that were already struggling to find use on the tabletop.
	*Army Book: [[Beastmen]] (7th Edition) If Warzone Damnos is his worst 40K book, then Beastmen is his worst Fantasy book. The army went from having decent chances at winning games to the worst army in the entire game. Some of the rules were downright retarded, like needing two of the exact same unit to pull off an ambush, one of which would take no part in the ambush. The Beastmen themselves were also moved to a spot where the Chaos Gods and everyone else shit on them constantly, almost never blessing them with gifts to help get the job done, completely losing all access to any kind of mark (even in the lore it's explicitly stated they could not have them), and they even lost the ability to make themselves new weapons and armour. On the plus side he kept the theme of them being Chaos Anarchy embodied, and the book introduced several new monsters that have awesome fluff, great models, and would be auto includes if they weren't all hideously overpriced (coming in slightly under some dragons but nowhere near as useful).		*Army Book: [[Beastmen]] (7th Edition) If Warzone Damnos is his worst 40K book, then Beastmen is his worst Fantasy book. The army went from having decent chances at winning games to the worst army in the entire game. Some of the rules were downright retarded, like needing two of the exact same unit to pull off an ambush, one of which would take no part in the ambush. The Beastmen themselves were also moved to a spot where the Chaos Gods and everyone else shit on them constantly, almost never blessing them with gifts to help get the job done, completely losing all access to any kind of mark (even in the lore it's explicitly stated they could not have them), and they even lost the ability to make themselves new weapons and armour. On the plus side he kept the theme of them being Chaos Anarchy embodied, and the book introduced several new monsters that have awesome fluff, great models, and would be auto includes if they weren't all hideously overpriced (coming in slightly under some dragons but nowhere near as useful).
	*Army Book: [[Warriors of Chaos]] (7th Edition). Pretty damn good on the rules side. He gave them some nifty special characters such as Valkia, Sigvald and Wulfric. And it had the [[Awesome\|Viking drinking song/saga of Khalac Swordsson in it]]. The fluff is hit or miss. Some negatives include a lot of repetition (take a drink every time he uses "heady" or "plaything") and a few dubious retcon attempts like claiming the Everchosen Asavar Kul got literally backstabbed and thrown off a wall by one of his lieutenants. It tries hard, often [[edgy\|too hard]], to make the Warriors of Chaos seem dark, menacing, and evil, with [[skub\|mixed]] [[grimderp\|success]].		*Army Book: [[Warriors of Chaos]] (7th Edition). Pretty damn good on the rules side. He gave them some nifty special characters such as Valkia, Sigvald and Wulfric. And it had the [[Awesome\|Viking drinking song/saga of Khalac Swordsson in it]]. The fluff is hit or miss. Some negatives include a lot of repetition (take a drink every time he uses "heady" or "plaything") and a few dubious retcon attempts, like claiming the Everchosen Asavar Kul got literally backstabbed and thrown off a wall by one of his lieutenants. It tries hard, often [[edgy\|too hard]], to make the Warriors of Chaos seem dark, menacing, and evil, with [[skub\|mixed]] [[grimderp\|success]].
	*Army Book: [[Vampire Counts]] (8th edition). A fairly decent release, it removed some of the cheese that the old one had (not to say it didn't have its own variety), added some more untold horrors upon the old world, and with Storm of Chaos being retconned into not happening he then (like the rest of the new Army Books) added a bit to advance the plot of Warhammer Fantasy. A bit of fluff in the codex has Mannfred conspiring with Kemmler to resurrect [[Nagash]] in a ritual involving a battle, the abduction and sacrifice of the High Elf Everqueen's daughter, which is one of the events leading to [[The End Times]]. This also disrupted an attempt at reconciliation between the High Elves and Dwarfs.		*Army Book: [[Vampire Counts]] (8th edition). A fairly decent release, it removed some of the cheese that the old one had (not to say it didn't have its own variety), added some more untold horrors upon the old world, and with Storm of Chaos being retconned into not happening he then (like the rest of the new Army Books) added a bit to advance the plot of Warhammer Fantasy. A bit of fluff in the codex has Mannfred conspiring with Kemmler to resurrect [[Nagash]] in a ritual involving a battle, the abduction and sacrifice of the High Elf Everqueen's daughter, which is one of the events leading to [[The End Times]]. This also disrupted an attempt at reconciliation between the High Elves and Dwarfs.