Primarch - Revision history

84.28.115.116 at 19:16, 4 April 2026

2026-04-04T19:16:45Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:16, 4 April 2026
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	\| [[Inwit]]		\| [[Inwit]]
	\| [[Imperial Fists]]		\| [[Imperial Fists]]
	\| ~~Loyal (MEGA DUPER)~~		\| Among the most loyal
	\| Missing (presumed dead)		\| Missing (presumed dead)
	*Assumed deceased and certainly missing a hand, disappeared while boarding a Chaos cruiser during a Black Crusade.		*Assumed deceased and certainly missing a hand, disappeared while boarding a Chaos cruiser during a Black Crusade.
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	\| [[Medusa_(Planet)\|Medusa]]		\| [[Medusa_(Planet)\|Medusa]]
	\| [[Iron Hands]]		\| [[Iron Hands]]
	\| ~~Loyal (~~Extremely~~, rivaling The Lion and Dorn)~~		\| Extremely loyal
	\| Dead		\| Dead
	*Deceased, slain by Fulgrim and his head offered to Horus as a gift (which actually horrified him). Fulgrim still has the body, which he repeatedly clones and murders again in a futile attempt to make him turn traitor. <br>Some claim he is still alive on Mars, though [[Void Dragon\|he almost certainly isn't]].		*Deceased, slain by Fulgrim and his head offered to Horus as a gift (which actually horrified him). Fulgrim still has the body, which he repeatedly clones and murders again in a futile attempt to make him turn traitor. <br>Some claim he is still alive on Mars, though [[Void Dragon\|he almost certainly isn't]].

84.28.115.116 at 19:16, 4 April 2026

2026-04-04T19:16:10Z

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	\| [[Caliban]]		\| [[Caliban]]
	\| [[Dark Angels]]		\| [[Dark Angels]]
	\| ~~Loyal (THE~~ most)		\| The most loyal of all
	\| Active (Formerly Injured), traveling the [[Imperium Nihilus]], founding [[Lion's Protectorate\|his own protectorate]] by making use of his newfound teleportation powers.		\| Active (Formerly Injured), traveling the [[Imperium Nihilus]], founding [[Lion's Protectorate\|his own protectorate]] by making use of his newfound teleportation powers.
	\|-		\|-

178.17.58.159: They're not Perpetuals ('cept Vulkan)

2026-01-13T17:57:38Z

They're not Perpetuals ('cept Vulkan)

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:57, 13 January 2026
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	{{Topquote\|There is but one good, and that is God. Everything else is good when it looks to him and bad when it turns from him. And the higher and mightier it is in the natural order, the more demoniac it will be if it rebels. It's not out of bad mice or bad fleas you make demons, but out of bad archangels.\|C.S. Lewis}}		{{Topquote\|There is but one good, and that is God. Everything else is good when it looks to him and bad when it turns from him. And the higher and mightier it is in the natural order, the more demoniac it will be if it rebels. It's not out of bad mice or bad fleas you make demons, but out of bad archangels.\|C.S. Lewis}}
	{{Topquote\|Et tu, Brute?\|Julius Caesar}}		{{Topquote\|Et tu, Brute?\|Julius Caesar}}
	The '''Primarchs''' were the twenty ([[Omegon\|-one]]) [[Transhumanist\|genetically-engineered]] sons of [[The Emperor]] and the female [[Perpetual]] [[Erda]]. Using both His and her DNA in their creation, the Primarchs were designed to be far superior to even <s>[[Space Marines]]</s> the Adeptus Custodes: they were taller, stronger, faster and more intelligent. ~~Artificial Perpetuals, to~~ replace the Perpetuals that refused to be a part of His great plan throughout history. Certainly faster and stronger, but the intelligence they display, especially in the Horus Heresy books, seem to be limited to their own specialties, making them [[Roboute Guilliman\|oddly]] [[Vulkan\|normal]] in some cases and [[Perturabo\|fatally]] [[Magnus the Red\|underdeveloped]] in other areas; the more successful among them, like Russ and Corax, knew how to apply those specialties in various situations, while others, like Angron, just [[Angry Marines\|brute-forced their way through situations]] using their talents like a (War)hammer(40k), but a few like Guilliman and Lion, [[Reasonable Marines\|actually knew how to account for the opposition]]. Dorn, at least, knew a fair bit about how his brothers waged war, he just didn't care and stuck with what he knew best. They were also incredibly charismatic and were well suited to their role as the generals and leaders of the Imperium of Man.		The '''Primarchs''' were the twenty ([[Omegon\|-one]]) [[Transhumanist\|genetically-engineered]] sons of [[The Emperor]] and the female [[Perpetual]] [[Erda]]. Using both His and her DNA in their creation, the Primarchs were designed to be far superior to even <s>[[Space Marines]]</s> the Adeptus Custodes: they were taller, stronger, faster and more intelligent. To replace the Perpetuals that refused to be a part of His great plan throughout history. Certainly faster and stronger, but the intelligence they display, especially in the Horus Heresy books, seem to be limited to their own specialties, making them [[Roboute Guilliman\|oddly]] [[Vulkan\|normal]] in some cases and [[Perturabo\|fatally]] [[Magnus the Red\|underdeveloped]] in other areas; the more successful among them, like Russ and Corax, knew how to apply those specialties in various situations, while others, like Angron, just [[Angry Marines\|brute-forced their way through situations]] using their talents like a (War)hammer(40k), but a few like Guilliman and Lion, [[Reasonable Marines\|actually knew how to account for the opposition]]. Dorn, at least, knew a fair bit about how his brothers waged war, he just didn't care and stuck with what he knew best. They were also incredibly charismatic and were well suited to their role as the generals and leaders of the Imperium of Man.

	Problem was, despite all that they were only human, and ultimately their sibling rivalries (and Chaos corruption, in the case of several of them) boiled over and ultimately developed into the [[Horus Heresy]].		Problem was, despite all that they were only human, and ultimately their sibling rivalries (and Chaos corruption, in the case of several of them) boiled over and ultimately developed into the [[Horus Heresy]].

174.225.17.7: /* Creation of the Primarchs */

2025-04-03T13:46:51Z

Creation of the Primarchs

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:46, 3 April 2025
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	==Creation of the Primarchs==		==Creation of the Primarchs==
	[[File:Warmaster's_Coronation.jpg\|300px\|left\|thumb\|Horus Lupercal being made Warmaster of the Imperium in Ullanor. From center counter-clockwise: Horus, the Emperor, Magnus, Mortarion, Lorgar, Angron, Jaghatai Khan, Rogal Dorn, Rogal Dorn's mustache, Fulgrim and Sanguinius.]]		[[File:Warmaster's_Coronation.jpg\|300px\|left\|thumb\|Horus Lupercal being made Warmaster of the Imperium in Ullanor. From center counter-clockwise: Horus, the Emperor, Magnus, Mortarion, Lorgar, Angron, Jaghatai Khan, Rogal Dorn, Rogal Dorn's mustache, Fulgrim and Sanguinius.]]
	The Primarchs began as a continuation of the Emperor’s [[Thunder Warriors\|Thunder Warrior]] legions. Each of the 20 proto-legions were led by a general analogue called a Primarch. Unlike the later leaders of the Legiones Astartes, the thunder warrior Primarchs were the same as the troops they led and were hand picked by the Emperor for their skill and command ability. The instability (both physical, genetic, and mental) of the thunder warriors led the Emperor to try and find more stable and powerful generals to lead his armies. It can be safely assumed that the original Primarchs were killed in the line of duty or purged before history could record them thoroughly. The only one named thus far was Ushotan of the 4th Legio Cataegis - then known as the Iron Lords. Valdor considered him almost an equal in terms of his martial and command ability but was disturbed by his innate bloodlust and susceptibility to the then nascent effects of Chaos.		The Primarchs began as a continuation of the Emperor’s [[Thunder Warriors\|Thunder Warrior]] legions. Each of the 20 proto-legions were led by a general analogue called a Primarch. Unlike the later leaders of the Legiones Astartes, the thunder warrior Primarchs were the same as the troops they led and were hand picked by the Emperor for their skill and command ability. The instability (both physical, genetic, and mental) of the thunder warriors led the Emperor to try and find more stable and powerful generals to lead his armies. It can be safely assumed that the original Primarchs were killed in the line of duty or purged before history could record them thoroughly. The only one named thus far was Ushotan of the 4th Legio Cataegis - then known as the Iron Lords. Valdor considered him almost an equal in terms of his martial and command ability but was disturbed by his innate bloodlust and susceptibility to the then nascent effects of Chaos (sort of, Thunder Warriors seemed basically immune to Chaos, but Warp energy drove them into berserk frenzies).

	The modern Primarchs were created in a secret underground laboratory on what used to be the Himalayas, under the tightest security. All of them were derived from a subset of both the perpetual Erda and the Emperor's DNA that served as a template, which was altered differently for each of the Primarchs; it is also thought that he engineered them spiritually as well using long-forgotten psychic techniques. As the [[Raven Guard]] discovered after the Emperor granted them access to the original data from the Primarchs' creation, many of the Primarchs' gene-samples were wildly divergent from the original template- some had long gene sequences deleted, while others had non-human DNA spliced into them for reasons only known to the Emperor. (A particularly intriguing discovery was one sample labeled "[[Leman Russ\|Subject VI]]", [[Furry\| which had extensive amounts of canine DNA added to it]].) All of them were given names that probably will never be revealed.		The modern Primarchs were created in a secret underground laboratory on what used to be the Himalayas, under the tightest security. All of them were derived from a subset of both the perpetual Erda and the Emperor's DNA that served as a template, which was altered differently for each of the Primarchs; it is also thought that he engineered them spiritually as well using long-forgotten psychic techniques. As the [[Raven Guard]] discovered after the Emperor granted them access to the original data from the Primarchs' creation, many of the Primarchs' gene-samples were wildly divergent from the original template- some had long gene sequences deleted, while others had non-human DNA spliced into them for reasons only known to the Emperor. (A particularly intriguing discovery was one sample labeled "[[Leman Russ\|Subject VI]]", [[Furry\| which had extensive amounts of canine DNA added to it]].) All of them were given names that probably will never be revealed.

174.225.17.227: /* Douchebagginess */

2025-04-02T18:51:24Z

Douchebagginess

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:51, 2 April 2025
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	==Douchebagginess==		==Douchebagginess==
	It is well known that most of the primarchs were douchebags to varying degrees.		It is well known that most of the primarchs were douchebags to varying degrees. The fact this section exists, and is large, should tell you enough right away.

	From least to most douchebag. Note, the scale really drops off into [[dick\|'''fucking''' douchebag]] after Jaghatai, and straight-up villain after Fulgrim and '''FUCKING CUNT''' after Lorgar. Also, depending on what they did, the Lost Primarchs may be even worse than all actions depicted here. Generally speaking, we'll be grading these guys on their personalities, treatment of their legion and others, and their motives and reasons for their actions. Also, we'll be adding more weight to their actions during the Great Crusade rather than the Heresy, not many Primarchs had a clear head during the Age of Darkness. Keep in mind that, as charismatic and badass as they may be, the Primarchs are responsible for a level of warmongering and genocide that would appall even the worst of Earth's dictators. How they feel about these atrocities, and why they did it (is it grim necessity, standard Imperial procedure or baseless sadism?) is what separates the [[Sanguinius\|"good"]] from the [[Konrad Curze\|"bad"]].		From least to most douchebag. Note, the scale really drops off into [[dick\|'''fucking''' douchebag]] after Jaghatai, and straight-up villain after Fulgrim and '''FUCKING CUNT''' after Lorgar. Also, depending on what they did, the Lost Primarchs may be even worse than all actions depicted here. Generally speaking, we'll be grading these guys on their personalities, treatment of their legion and others, and their motives and reasons for their actions. Also, we'll be adding more weight to their actions during the Great Crusade rather than the Heresy, not many Primarchs had a clear head during the Age of Darkness. Keep in mind that, as charismatic and badass as they may be, the Primarchs are responsible for a level of warmongering and genocide that would appall even the worst of Earth's dictators. How they feel about these atrocities, and why they did it (is it grim necessity, standard Imperial procedure or baseless sadism?) is what separates the [[Sanguinius\|"good"]] from the [[Konrad Curze\|"bad"]].
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	## '''Magnus the Red''' - For his faults, Magnus was one of the nicest Primarchs right up there with Vulkan and Sanguinius. Before the whole Prospero thing, this guy's MO was all about the advancement of humanity: always trying the diplomatic approach to preserve what could be preserved, using shock and awe tactics to limit damage when fighting, happily taking remembrancers along his legion (Although all remembrancers amongst the fellowship were psykers to some degree). Magnus was a friendly and open-minded idealist, which makes it all the more tragic when he gets deceived, framed, backstabbed and then coaxed into selling his soul to the [[Tzeentch\|Cuttlefish of Keikaku]]. He is easily the most sympathetic of the traitors, considering he only joined them after being backed into a corner; had Jaghatai been at his side during and after Nikaea things might have turned out differently. He was also the only traitor Primarch who actually cared about his men, even after ascending to daemonhood. The novel ''Deathfire'' also ups his bro-ness quite a bit, as he proved himself the only traitor-aligned Primarch to ''sincerely'' do something very helpful for one of his loyalist brothers after the Horus Heresy was already in full swing. This "special favour" is made all the more striking given how it took place ''after'' Magnus had his adoptive homeworld burned out from under him. Perhaps his skin was red not only because of mutation, but because it also showed [[Lovedagger\|the greatness of his heart]]? On the other hand, this was done by one of the fragments of Magnus that embodied his love for his gene-sons and fellow Primarchs (which ultimately self-destructed to keep the Crimson King from absorbing its power), so any hope that he kept that good heart died after Ahriman's failure at his Second Rubric on Prospero and when the Emperor offered him a chance to redeem himself as the Primarch of the nascent Grey Knights he threw it away. While his soul was still in one piece, Magnus's main character flaw was his arrogance. As in, this guy's ego had only two contenders in all the galaxy; the Emperor Himself, and Lion El'Jonson. Maybe Eldrad too. While he wasn't an in-your-face type like Fulgrim, Magnus and his Legion were still entirely convinced that they knew the Warp better than anyone else, which led to them disregarding many warnings and red flags that could've been avoided, leading almost directly to their awful, [[Rubric Marines\|awful]] fates. It also caused him to have a complete blind spot where his own insufferability was concerned, as he genuinely believed himself to be the most intelligent of his brothers. This Sheldon Cooper-esque attitude caused many of the other Primarchs represented at the Council of Nikaea to wish Magnus personally rebuked despite their support of the Libraius initiative itself. When he learned of this, it appeared to have caught him completely off guard, and dismayed him tremendously. Also, Magnus wasn't ENTIRELY innocent as he had implanted sleeper agents and spies throughout the Imperium, ruining the lives of those brainwashed while betraying the trust of his brothers. Why he did this isn't exactly clear (it's very unlikely to be Chaos related) though it's most likely an attempt to obtain information and records his brother might otherwise destroy. Regardless however, his more questionable traits appeared not to have ever been the result of malice, but were instead a byproduct of his solipsism and thoughtlessness. This is brought into sharp relief during his final duel with Vulkan, where Vulkan lays out in no uncertain terms that Magnus's own petulance, arrogance, and narcissism were the primary reasons why he fell, and that he was ultimately the architect of his own failures.		## '''Magnus the Red''' - For his faults, Magnus was one of the nicest Primarchs right up there with Vulkan and Sanguinius. Before the whole Prospero thing, this guy's MO was all about the advancement of humanity: always trying the diplomatic approach to preserve what could be preserved, using shock and awe tactics to limit damage when fighting, happily taking remembrancers along his legion (Although all remembrancers amongst the fellowship were psykers to some degree). Magnus was a friendly and open-minded idealist, which makes it all the more tragic when he gets deceived, framed, backstabbed and then coaxed into selling his soul to the [[Tzeentch\|Cuttlefish of Keikaku]]. He is easily the most sympathetic of the traitors, considering he only joined them after being backed into a corner; had Jaghatai been at his side during and after Nikaea things might have turned out differently. He was also the only traitor Primarch who actually cared about his men, even after ascending to daemonhood. The novel ''Deathfire'' also ups his bro-ness quite a bit, as he proved himself the only traitor-aligned Primarch to ''sincerely'' do something very helpful for one of his loyalist brothers after the Horus Heresy was already in full swing. This "special favour" is made all the more striking given how it took place ''after'' Magnus had his adoptive homeworld burned out from under him. Perhaps his skin was red not only because of mutation, but because it also showed [[Lovedagger\|the greatness of his heart]]? On the other hand, this was done by one of the fragments of Magnus that embodied his love for his gene-sons and fellow Primarchs (which ultimately self-destructed to keep the Crimson King from absorbing its power), so any hope that he kept that good heart died after Ahriman's failure at his Second Rubric on Prospero and when the Emperor offered him a chance to redeem himself as the Primarch of the nascent Grey Knights he threw it away. While his soul was still in one piece, Magnus's main character flaw was his arrogance. As in, this guy's ego had only two contenders in all the galaxy; the Emperor Himself, and Lion El'Jonson. Maybe Eldrad too. While he wasn't an in-your-face type like Fulgrim, Magnus and his Legion were still entirely convinced that they knew the Warp better than anyone else, which led to them disregarding many warnings and red flags that could've been avoided, leading almost directly to their awful, [[Rubric Marines\|awful]] fates. It also caused him to have a complete blind spot where his own insufferability was concerned, as he genuinely believed himself to be the most intelligent of his brothers. This Sheldon Cooper-esque attitude caused many of the other Primarchs represented at the Council of Nikaea to wish Magnus personally rebuked despite their support of the Libraius initiative itself. When he learned of this, it appeared to have caught him completely off guard, and dismayed him tremendously. Also, Magnus wasn't ENTIRELY innocent as he had implanted sleeper agents and spies throughout the Imperium, ruining the lives of those brainwashed while betraying the trust of his brothers. Why he did this isn't exactly clear (it's very unlikely to be Chaos related) though it's most likely an attempt to obtain information and records his brother might otherwise destroy. Regardless however, his more questionable traits appeared not to have ever been the result of malice, but were instead a byproduct of his solipsism and thoughtlessness. This is brought into sharp relief during his final duel with Vulkan, where Vulkan lays out in no uncertain terms that Magnus's own petulance, arrogance, and narcissism were the primary reasons why he fell, and that he was ultimately the architect of his own failures.
	## '''Corax''' - Even after being raised under the tyranny of the Kiavahrans, he refused to take after their tyrannous ways, wanted to make things right, and asked the Emperor to end the civil war he started while liberating his homeworld of Lycaeus. He was one of only two Primarchs to make use of precision warfare in such a way as to actually '''save''' lives, and he cared to an almost Vulkan-esque level about civilians. Konrad Curze was the other Primarch to do so but unfortunately, if you were caught in one of Curze's "precision strikes", your entire purpose was to die so horrifically and so publicly as to make everyone else surrender in terror. Seeing the ruthless tendencies the Terran members of his legion had, he quietly shipped them way the fuck away from the rest of the Great Crusade to go fight xenos or got them all slaughtered during the Battle of Gate 42. He was also one of very few primarchs to readily admit his own mistakes, which were numerous and sometimes tragic. If one were determined to find a moral chink in his armor, it would be fighting for the Imperium despite claiming to be a freedom fighter. However, he was aware of this contradiction and considered moral consistency a price worth paying for the eternal salvation of the human race, while resolving to return to ensuring freedom for the oppressed once the Crusade was over. Considering the fact that the 40K Raven Guard 6th company still go after particularly oppressive governors if they get a chance, Corax raised his sons pretty well in that regard so his desire for freedom is genuine. Developed a brutal habit of folding Chaos Space Marines into pretzels when shapeshifting into a tangible shadow during his hunt against his Daemon brothers Post-Heresy but left the slaves alone.		## '''Corax''' - Even after being raised under the tyranny of the Kiavahrans, he refused to take after their tyrannous ways, wanted to make things right, and asked the Emperor to end the civil war he started while liberating his homeworld of Lycaeus. He was one of only two Primarchs to make use of precision warfare in such a way as to actually '''save''' lives, and he cared to an almost Vulkan-esque level about civilians. Konrad Curze was the other Primarch to do so but unfortunately, if you were caught in one of Curze's "precision strikes", your entire purpose was to die so horrifically and so publicly as to make everyone else surrender in terror. Seeing the ruthless tendencies the Terran members of his legion had, he quietly shipped them way the fuck away from the rest of the Great Crusade to go fight xenos or got them all slaughtered during the Battle of Gate 42. He was also one of very few primarchs to readily admit his own mistakes, which were numerous and sometimes tragic. If one were determined to find a moral chink in his armor, it would be fighting for the Imperium despite claiming to be a freedom fighter. However, he was aware of this contradiction and considered moral consistency a price worth paying for the eternal salvation of the human race, while resolving to return to ensuring freedom for the oppressed once the Crusade was over. Considering the fact that the 40K Raven Guard 6th company still go after particularly oppressive governors if they get a chance, Corax raised his sons pretty well in that regard so his desire for freedom is genuine. Developed a brutal habit of folding Chaos Space Marines into pretzels when shapeshifting into a tangible shadow during his hunt against his Daemon brothers Post-Heresy but left the slaves alone.
	## '''Jaghatai Khan''' - Despite him being modeled after [[Genghis motherfucking Khan\|the guy who holds the high score on raping and pillaging]], Jaghatai was actually very reasonable and [[Kharn\|a pretty fun guy to be around]]. His main hobbies included [[Dark Eldar\|raiding and jetbikes]], but he had an appreciation for [[Blood Angels\|the fine arts]] as well. He was very good friends with Magnus and very pro-psyker. However he also kept his distance from pretty much everyone else, save Horus, not wanting to deal with other people's bullshit, unless they were really worth the effort - as the result very few people knew and trusted him (especially once [[Horus\|most]] [[Magnus the Red\|of]] his only bros turned traitor). He seemed to have something of a "live and let live" type philosophy, as after he conquered his home planet, he just kinda fucked off back to the Steppes with a warning to everyone not to piss him off too much. It should be noted that though his aloof dickishness was the primary reason why most of his brothers left him alone, the Khan was never spiteful or deliberately malicious (at least not to [[Mortarion\|anyone who didn't 100% deserve it]]). While the Khan didn't seem to care too much about the whole Great Crusade thing and spent most of his time doing his own thing, he never turned his back on the Imperium and sincerely believed in the idea of an Empire in the starry skies. And this was despite being the one of the few Primarchs to understand how bunked the whole [[Imperial Truth]] secular atheist propaganda really was (remember that the Chogorisian had Shamans, who also are the ones who select the White Scars' Chapter Master through mysterious initiatic trials); and of the Emperor himself he declared that he was "neither a monster nor a simpleton", mostly because he knew that [[Chaos]] was far worse (of course). So, the Emperor knew all along that the Khagan had his priorities right and would therefore not betray him, even when Malcador brought up the topic; and this was in spite of the personal relationship of father and son being explicitly awkward.		## '''Jaghatai Khan''' - Despite him being modeled after [[Genghis motherfucking Khan\|the guy who holds the high score on raping and pillaging]], Jaghatai was actually very reasonable and [[Kharn\|a pretty fun guy to be around]]. His main hobbies included [[Dark Eldar\|raiding and jetbikes]], but he had an appreciation for [[Blood Angels\|the fine arts]] as well. He was very good friends with Magnus and very pro-psyker. However he also kept his distance from pretty much everyone else, save Horus, not wanting to deal with other people's bullshit, unless they were really worth the effort - as the result very few people knew and trusted him (especially once [[Horus\|most]] [[Magnus the Red\|of]] his only bros turned traitor). He seemed to have something of a "live and let live" type philosophy, as after he conquered his home planet, he just kinda fucked off back to the Steppes with a warning to everyone not to piss him off too much. It should be noted that though his aloof dickishness was the primary reason why most of his brothers left him alone, the Khan was never spiteful or deliberately malicious (at least not to [[Mortarion\|anyone who didn't 100% deserve it]]). While the Khan didn't seem to care too much about the whole Great Crusade thing and spent most of his time doing his own thing, he never turned his back on the Imperium and sincerely believed in the idea of an Empire in the starry skies. And this was despite being the one of the few Primarchs to understand how bunked the whole [[Imperial Truth]] secular atheist propaganda really was (remember that the Chogorisian had Shamans, who also are the ones who select the White Scars' Chapter Master through mysterious initiatic trials); and of the Emperor himself he declared that he was "neither a monster nor a simpleton", mostly because he knew that [[Chaos]] was far worse (of course). So, the Emperor knew all along that the Khagan had his priorities right and would therefore not betray him, even when Malcador brought up the topic; and this was in spite of the personal relationship of father and son being explicitly awkward. He also was perhaps the only Primarch to both believe the Emperor might kill him and his sons after the Great Crusade and accept it instead of getting rebellious. Preferring to die a hero than become a villain.
	==='''Arrogant Project Manager (Yes Guilliman needs his own category)'''===		==='''Arrogant Project Manager (Yes Guilliman needs his own category)'''===
	## '''Guilliman''' - R.G. is a jerk with a (or rather two) heart(s) of gold or a nice guy with a nasty mean streak, depending on how you look at him. Some people might say this dude was a statesman in the same vein as Augustus Caesar- he was great at building states and making life generally better for people, but only if you ignore the deported and murdered people who didn't agree 100% with the new regime. For somebody more reasonable, Guilliman was perhaps one of the most responsible and human among his brothers. He cared about the common man, personally planned post-war reconstruction and political integration into the Imperium of the planets he conquered and (unofficially) tolerated moderate presence of religion in Ultramar. But for sure the guy had a big ego, as he constantly spoke and behaved like he knew what was best for everyone, at least until proven wrong (multiple times). And you better not get on his shit list, although to be fair he was mostly a complete jerk with people he considers being [[Konrad Curze\|psycho]] [[Angron\|mass murderers]] with [[Perturabo\|no respect for their own sons]] or [[Alpharius\|civilian populations]]. And despite what [[Matt Ward\|some people]] would have you believe, he knew he couldn't plan for every situation and expected people to use their own judgment rather than blindly follow his [[Codex Astartes\|codex]]. Like Jaghatai Khan, we know Guilliman recognized that the Emperor was a horrible father (likely since he's one of the few among his brothers to have had actual decent adoptive parents) and that the ideals the Emperor espoused were far more important than the Emperor himself ever was, and after learning that his whole [[Imperium Secundus]] plan was based on bad assumptions he's been beating himself up about it all the way into the 42nd millennium. While he's grown more cynical since his revival and subsequent realization of how badly the Imperium had devolved in his absence, he has refused to abandon his noble ideals or his faith in humanity as a whole and has privately considered the possibility that in retrospect he had been overly dismissive of Lorgar's ideas about the Emperor's divinity. He also seems to be a bit more irritable than he used to be, but given [[Great Rift\|his]] [[Age of the Dark Imperium\|current]] situation it would be more surprising if that wasn't the case. Also, may have actually imprisoned [[Cypher]] and the Fallen so that the Emperor wouldn't discover [[Assholetep\|who broke Lion El'Jonson's best sword]], ultimately causing him to die in battle in Emprah's mini-me's own pseudo Horus Heresy. Additionally, he has developed a legitimately unprecedented trait for a Primarch: that of sufficient self-awareness to not just recognize, but actually '''LEARN''' from his mistakes, such as during the Hexarchy coup attempt or not trying to secure Ultramar à la Imperium Secundus during the Terran Crusade.		## '''Guilliman''' - R.G. is a jerk with a (or rather two) heart(s) of gold or a nice guy with a nasty mean streak, depending on how you look at him. Some people might say this dude was a statesman in the same vein as Augustus Caesar- he was great at building states and making life generally better for people, but only if you ignore the deported and murdered people who didn't agree 100% with the new regime. For somebody more reasonable, Guilliman was perhaps one of the most responsible and human among his brothers. He cared about the common man, personally planned post-war reconstruction and political integration into the Imperium of the planets he conquered and (unofficially) tolerated moderate presence of religion in Ultramar. But for sure the guy had a big ego, as he constantly spoke and behaved like he knew what was best for everyone, at least until proven wrong (multiple times). And you better not get on his shit list, although to be fair he was mostly a complete jerk with people he considers being [[Konrad Curze\|psycho]] [[Angron\|mass murderers]] with [[Perturabo\|no respect for their own sons]] or [[Alpharius\|civilian populations]]. And despite what [[Matt Ward\|some people]] would have you believe, he knew he couldn't plan for every situation and expected people to use their own judgment rather than blindly follow his [[Codex Astartes\|codex]]. Like Jaghatai Khan, we know Guilliman recognized that the Emperor was a horrible father (likely since he's one of the few among his brothers to have had actual decent adoptive parents) and that the ideals the Emperor espoused were far more important than the Emperor himself ever was, and after learning that his whole [[Imperium Secundus]] plan was based on bad assumptions he's been beating himself up about it all the way into the 42nd millennium. While he's grown more cynical since his revival and subsequent realization of how badly the Imperium had devolved in his absence, he has refused to abandon his noble ideals or his faith in humanity as a whole and has privately considered the possibility that in retrospect he had been overly dismissive of Lorgar's ideas about the Emperor's divinity. He also seems to be a bit more irritable than he used to be, but given [[Great Rift\|his]] [[Age of the Dark Imperium\|current]] situation it would be more surprising if that wasn't the case. Also, may have actually imprisoned [[Cypher]] and the Fallen so that the Emperor wouldn't discover [[Assholetep\|who broke Lion El'Jonson's best sword]], ultimately causing him to die in battle in Emprah's mini-me's own pseudo Horus Heresy. Additionally, he has developed a legitimately unprecedented trait for a Primarch: that of sufficient self-awareness to not just recognize, but actually '''LEARN''' from his mistakes, such as during the Hexarchy coup attempt or not trying to secure Ultramar à la Imperium Secundus during the Terran Crusade.

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2A02:B025:8010:980F:B08D:93C7:C0D1:BA06: /* Their Eventual Fates */

2023-06-19T00:59:44Z

Their Eventual Fates

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	* The Alpha Legion's story is a bit complex:		* The Alpha Legion's story is a bit complex:
	**'''Alpharius''' was slain by Rogal Dorn in combat during the Battle of Pluto. He is very much dead as he did not bargain with the Dark Gods and had his head split open by a fellow Primarch's chainsword. Conspiracy theorists will speculate that it wasn't really Alpharius, though the death is strongly corroborated by Omegon's response. So unless Alpharius used a body double to trick Rogal Dorn AND ''his own twin'', into thinking he was dead and allowed Omegon to take his place and identity permanently; (or his twin merly acted as if he had died as part of the ruse, this is the Alpha Legion triple mind gamesa are kinda there thing) there isn't any hard evidence to suggest that the dead "Alpharius" was anything other than the actual Primarch, but knowing the Alpha Legion that doesn't mean too much without definitive proof.		**'''Alpharius''' was slain by Rogal Dorn in combat during the Battle of Pluto. He is very much dead as he did not bargain with the Dark Gods and had his head split open by a fellow Primarch's chainsword. Conspiracy theorists will speculate that it wasn't really Alpharius, though the death is strongly corroborated by Omegon's response. So unless Alpharius used a body double to trick Rogal Dorn AND ''his own twin'', into thinking he was dead and allowed Omegon to take his place and identity permanently; (or his twin merly acted as if he had died as part of the ruse, this is the Alpha Legion triple mind gamesa are kinda there thing) there isn't any hard evidence to suggest that the dead "Alpharius" was anything other than the actual Primarch, but knowing the Alpha Legion that doesn't mean too much without definitive proof.

			Actually, screw all that.
			Following the novel "Alpharius Head of the Hydra" it is revealed that Alpharius and Omegon exchanged identities the moment Omegon was found because Alpharius had been instructed by both the Emperor and Malcador to act as the hidden sword of the Imperium ever since he was found immediately after the scattering of the Primarchs; giving credit to that, the Alpharius acting as the public face of the Legion is secretly Omegon, while the one identifying as Omegon is the real Alpharius.
			Going by this, Alpharius has always been loyal to the Emperor, while Omegon probably believed the Cabal and decided to aid Horus (this would be further confirmed by several novels in the Horus Heresy series that showed entire contingents of Alpa Legion Astartes breaking down into civil war) and died at the hand of Rogal Dorn for that.

	**'''Omegon''' reluctantly took Alpharius's identity after he sensed he was dead, and his legion a bee-line for Ultramar after the Horus Heresy, where he met his end after dueling [[Roboute Guilliman\|Big Bobby G]]. However, because the rest of the Alpha Legionaries did not break even after the death of their primarch ''(in fact they managed to beat the Ultramarines in the conflict altogether);'' nobody could truly confirm if they did indeed kill the real deal, or if it was a body double.		**'''Omegon''' reluctantly took Alpharius's identity after he sensed he was dead, and his legion a bee-line for Ultramar after the Horus Heresy, where he met his end after dueling [[Roboute Guilliman\|Big Bobby G]]. However, because the rest of the Alpha Legionaries did not break even after the death of their primarch ''(in fact they managed to beat the Ultramarines in the conflict altogether);'' nobody could truly confirm if they did indeed kill the real deal, or if it was a body double.
	**While it's been established that a decent amount of Alpha Legionnaires were surgically altered to resemble their Primarch and even ''believe'' they were Primarchs themselves; that and the figurehead role of "Alpharius" has been largely interchangable between both the twins and their sons, which makes sense for a legion whose MO is flexible leadership. While we can be reasonably certain that at least one of the twins is dead, whatever "Omegon-Alpharius" or at least whichever person who thinks he's Alpharius have been up to following the Heresy is a matter of fierce debate and speculation.		**While it's been established that a decent amount of Alpha Legionnaires were surgically altered to resemble their Primarch and even ''believe'' they were Primarchs themselves; that and the figurehead role of "Alpharius" has been largely interchangable between both the twins and their sons, which makes sense for a legion whose MO is flexible leadership. While we can be reasonably certain that at least one of the twins is dead, whatever "Omegon-Alpharius" or at least whichever person who thinks he's Alpharius have been up to following the Heresy is a matter of fierce debate and speculation.

185.16.69.208 at 21:33, 5 June 2023

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	==Gallery==		==Gallery==


	<center>		<center>
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	File:Lorgar Handsome.jpg\|[[Lorgar Aurelian]] (goldboy)		File:Lorgar Handsome.jpg\|[[Lorgar Aurelian]] (goldboy)
	File:Alpharius2.jpg\|[[Alpharius]]/[[Omegon]]		File:Alpharius2.jpg\|[[Alpharius]]/[[Omegon]]

	</gallery>		</gallery>
	<center>		<center>

			<gallery>
			File:Prim height.png\|[[Lore accurate Height chart]]
			</gallery>

	===How To Make A Primarch===		===How To Make A Primarch===

2A02:1810:4E2C:A900:E46D:77BB:EEC1:5E6F at 21:12, 3 June 2023

2023-06-03T21:12:08Z

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