Q1: Queen of the Demonweb Pits - Revision history

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1d4chan>Zimriel at 22:36, 28 February 2023

2023-02-28T22:36:17Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:36, 28 February 2023
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	Q1: '''Queen of the Demonweb Pits''' is an adventure module for [[Advanced Dungeons & Dragons]] 1st edition, the one and only entry into the Q line. Herein the party travels to the [[Demonweb Pits]] of the [[Abyss]] and battles [[Lolth]], [[Demon Prince]]ss of Spiders and Goddess of the [[Drow]]. It is canonically the sequel to the [[Drow Trilogy]] [[Adventure Path]], making it the ultimate conclusion of the campaign/super adventure known as [[Queen of the Spiders]], after its omnibus format.		Q1: '''Queen of the Demonweb Pits''' is an adventure module for [[Advanced Dungeons & Dragons]] 1st edition, the one and only entry into the Q line. Herein the party travels to the [[Demonweb Pits]] of the [[Abyss]] and battles [[Lolth]], [[Demon Prince]]ss of Spiders and Goddess of the [[Drow]]. It is canonically the sequel to the [[Drow Trilogy]] [[Adventure Path]], making it the ultimate conclusion of the campaign/super adventure known as [[Queen of the Spiders]], after its omnibus format.

	As with [[T1-4: Temple of Elemental Evil]] this one was teased back in 1979, but delayed. Only for two years though - so the flood of newbies [[Tom Moldvay]] brought in with his Basic Set didn't notice.		As with [[T1-4: Temple of Elemental Evil]] this one was teased back in 1979, but delayed. Only for two years though - so the flood of newbies [[Tom Moldvay]] brought in with his Basic Set didn't notice. Hence why where the D series monsters got into the [[Fiend Folio]], this one's [[yochlol]] had to await the second [[Monster Manual]].

	{{spoilers}}		{{spoilers}}

1d4chan>Zimriel: Thanks for the image; personally I like these things inlined to the right, but, we'll leave that to others

2021-11-16T19:03:17Z

Thanks for the image; personally I like these things inlined to the right, but, we'll leave that to others

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:03, 16 November 2021
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	[[File:Q1QueenDemonwebPitsCover.jpg\|~~center~~\|thumb\|Yo dawg, we heard [[Bullshit\|you like spiders]], so we put spiders in your doors, so you can kill spiders while you kill spiders.]]		[[File:Q1QueenDemonwebPitsCover.jpg\|right\|thumb\|Yo dawg, we heard [[Bullshit\|you like spiders]], so we put spiders in your doors, so you can kill spiders while you kill spiders.]]
	Q1: '''Queen of the Demonweb Pits''' is an adventure module for [[Advanced Dungeons & Dragons]] 1st edition, the one and only entry into the Q line. Herein the party travels to the [[Demonweb Pits]] of the [[Abyss]] and battles [[Lolth]], [[Demon Prince]]ss of Spiders and Goddess of the [[Drow]]. It is canonically the sequel to the [[Drow Trilogy]] [[Adventure Path]], making it the ultimate conclusion of the campaign/super adventure known as [[Queen of the Spiders]], after its omnibus format.		Q1: '''Queen of the Demonweb Pits''' is an adventure module for [[Advanced Dungeons & Dragons]] 1st edition, the one and only entry into the Q line. Herein the party travels to the [[Demonweb Pits]] of the [[Abyss]] and battles [[Lolth]], [[Demon Prince]]ss of Spiders and Goddess of the [[Drow]]. It is canonically the sequel to the [[Drow Trilogy]] [[Adventure Path]], making it the ultimate conclusion of the campaign/super adventure known as [[Queen of the Spiders]], after its omnibus format.

1d4chan>Rocko1345 at 17:50, 16 November 2021

2021-11-16T17:50:37Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:50, 16 November 2021
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			[[File:Q1QueenDemonwebPitsCover.jpg\|center\|thumb\|Yo dawg, we heard [[Bullshit\|you like spiders]], so we put spiders in your doors, so you can kill spiders while you kill spiders.]]
	Q1: '''Queen of the Demonweb Pits''' is an adventure module for [[Advanced Dungeons & Dragons]] 1st edition, the one and only entry into the Q line. Herein the party travels to the [[Demonweb Pits]] of the [[Abyss]] and battles [[Lolth]], [[Demon Prince]]ss of Spiders and Goddess of the [[Drow]]. It is canonically the sequel to the [[Drow Trilogy]] [[Adventure Path]], making it the ultimate conclusion of the campaign/super adventure known as [[Queen of the Spiders]], after its omnibus format.		Q1: '''Queen of the Demonweb Pits''' is an adventure module for [[Advanced Dungeons & Dragons]] 1st edition, the one and only entry into the Q line. Herein the party travels to the [[Demonweb Pits]] of the [[Abyss]] and battles [[Lolth]], [[Demon Prince]]ss of Spiders and Goddess of the [[Drow]]. It is canonically the sequel to the [[Drow Trilogy]] [[Adventure Path]], making it the ultimate conclusion of the campaign/super adventure known as [[Queen of the Spiders]], after its omnibus format.

1d4chan>SpectralTime: /* Novelization */

2021-10-17T13:44:22Z

Novelization

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:44, 17 October 2021
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	It also incorporates all kinds of stuff from the module, as is tradition, when the gang finally infiltrates the Abyss to do her in for keeps, including a giant mechanical spider in the third act, the confusing layout of the Demonweb Pits, and a stopover in another world through a portal so the party can rest and get their spells back, briefly interrupted by a fight with a bunch of vampires. Also, before the positive section ends, let there be no bones about it: unlike most such novels, which are worried about disrupting the status quo too much, the party no-bullshit, no-backsies, and no-fakeouts outright kills Lolth for keeps, which while destined to be undone or ignored was a ballsy move. (While it ''also'' arguably falls into the opposite extreme, where NPCs cooler than you do all the work, the novel's conceit and the modules' age both take the sting out of it, since in context it's supposed to ''represent'' a party like yours doing the dirty work.)		It also incorporates all kinds of stuff from the module, as is tradition, when the gang finally infiltrates the Abyss to do her in for keeps, including a giant mechanical spider in the third act, the confusing layout of the Demonweb Pits, and a stopover in another world through a portal so the party can rest and get their spells back, briefly interrupted by a fight with a bunch of vampires. Also, before the positive section ends, let there be no bones about it: unlike most such novels, which are worried about disrupting the status quo too much, the party no-bullshit, no-backsies, and no-fakeouts outright kills Lolth for keeps, which while destined to be undone or ignored was a ballsy move. (While it ''also'' arguably falls into the opposite extreme, where NPCs cooler than you do all the work, the novel's conceit and the modules' age both take the sting out of it, since in context it's supposed to ''represent'' a party like yours doing the dirty work.)

	Unfortunately, it's not perfect either. Unlike prior novels, where things started kind of slow and picked up in a hurry once the actual module got underway, here things actually slow down and become ''less'' interesting once they get to the titular Demonweb Pits. While the module is well-known for design issues, Kidd seemingly resolved this by literally having Morag give the party a map, supplies, and advice for getting through it. The one time the rest of the party revolts against the Justicar's speedrunning strats and opens a random door to try to adventure, they get caught in that asshole "magnetic walls and bugbears with wooden weapons storm out to beat you up" trap, as if to illustrate why Kidd is barely bothering to adapt the module beyond the bare essentials.		Unfortunately, it's not perfect either. Unlike prior novels, where things started kind of slow and picked up in a hurry once the actual module got underway, here things actually slow down and become ''less'' interesting once they get to the titular Demonweb Pits. While the module is well-known for design issues, Kidd seemingly resolved this by literally having Morag give the party a map, supplies, and advice for getting through it. She even helpfully killed the master vampire on Nightworld in advance for them. The one time the rest of the party revolts against the Justicar's speedrunning strats and opens a random door to try to adventure, they get caught in that asshole "magnetic walls and bugbears with wooden weapons storm out to beat you up" trap, as if to illustrate why Kidd is barely bothering to adapt the module beyond the bare essentials.

	Also, while Escalla has a few good moments, and is never at her worst, she's rarely at her best either, and the entire climax largely boils down to her stopping time for a bit so she can resolve everything on her own with minimal help from the rest of the group. And the resolution to both miniboss fights is lackluster, Escalla's being settled in extremely perfunctory fashion and the Justicar's final emotional resolution with his old teacher lacking emotional nuance, even if it's got some badass imagery. Hell, the simple fact that said teacher is written very poorly before his death, as a one-note vainglorious asshole, and the Justicar realizing he was ''always'' a one-note vainglorious asshole as a resolution to his personal emotional turmoil, are both deeply-unsatisfying exceptions to Kidd's usual skill with characterization.		Also, while Escalla has a few good moments, and is never at her worst, she's rarely at her best either, and the entire climax largely boils down to her stopping time for a bit so she can resolve everything on her own with minimal help from the rest of the group. And the resolution to both miniboss fights is lackluster, Escalla's being settled in extremely perfunctory fashion and the Justicar's final emotional resolution with his old teacher lacking emotional nuance, even if it's got some badass imagery. Hell, the simple fact that said teacher is written very poorly before his death, as a one-note vainglorious asshole, and the Justicar realizing he was ''always'' a one-note vainglorious asshole as a resolution to his personal emotional turmoil, are both deeply-unsatisfying exceptions to Kidd's usual skill with characterization.

1d4chan>Zimriel at 13:15, 28 August 2021

2021-08-28T13:15:02Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:15, 28 August 2021
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	The party could just walk off the pavement to skip all that, to a "lower" pathway but... they're interlocking. That party might end up back in a higher pathway. And the pathways all look the same.		The party could just walk off the pavement to skip all that, to a "lower" pathway but... they're interlocking. That party might end up back in a higher pathway. And the pathways all look the same.

	And not all the doors lead to teleportation. Gygax used the first pathways of this 'web to bring in, arbitrarily, what Gygax loved best: ~~traps~~ and tricks to frustrate players into violent [[rage]]. We'll have to call out the Magnetic Chamber. One wall is a yuuge mirror which, in fact, is a "lodestone". So if anyone is wearing any iron (or, we suppose, nickel or cobalt) - that iron is getting yanked into immobility. And then you get swarmed by thirty [[bugbear]]s with, you guessed it, wooden weapons. On the "plus" side, these rooms are the only way to tell Pathway One from Pathway Two or Three - if you've been to that room before, you know you've been on that road before. "[[Zork\|A maze of twisty passages, all alike.]]"		And not all the doors lead to teleportation. Gygax used the first pathways of this 'web to bring in, arbitrarily, what Gygax loved best: [[trap]]s and tricks to frustrate players into violent [[rage]]. We'll have to call out the Magnetic Chamber. One wall is a yuuge mirror which, in fact, is a "lodestone". So if anyone is wearing any iron (or, we suppose, nickel or cobalt) - that iron is getting yanked into immobility. And then you get swarmed by thirty [[bugbear]]s with, you guessed it, wooden weapons. On the "plus" side, these rooms are the only way to tell Pathway One from Pathway Two or Three - if you've been to that room before, you know you've been on that road before. "[[Zork\|A maze of twisty passages, all alike.]]"

	Once on that fourth and last pathway you know you're getting somewhere. The doors on this one connect to whole new worlds, or maybe planes, in the Prime Material. Here the party learns that Lolth has schemes on many worlds, some of which schemes have basically won. Among the planes is Caer Sidi from "Three Hearts and Three Lions", and a pink ocean which will appear again in 2e classic [[Die, Vecna, Die!]]. One standout is the Nightworld of Vlad Tolenkov, which is exactly what it sounds like, long preceding [[Ravenloft]].		Once on that fourth and last pathway you know you're getting somewhere. The doors on this one connect to whole new worlds, or maybe planes, in the Prime Material. Here the party learns that Lolth has schemes on many worlds, some of which schemes have basically won. Among the planes is Caer Sidi from "Three Hearts and Three Lions", and a pink ocean which will appear again in 2e classic [[Die, Vecna, Die!]]. One standout is the Nightworld of Vlad Tolenkov, which is exactly what it sounds like, long preceding [[Ravenloft]].

1d4chan>Zimriel: /* Novelization */

2021-08-03T02:22:48Z

Novelization

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:22, 3 August 2021
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	==Novelization==		==Novelization==

	[[Paul Kidd]]'s magnum opus, and the grand finale to his "Justicar" ~~stories~~, was the novelization of ''Queen of the Demonweb Pits'', conveniently titled... ''Queen of the Demonweb Pits''.		[[Paul Kidd]]'s magnum opus, and the grand finale to his "Justicar" subset of the [[Greyhawk Classics]], was the novelization of ''Queen of the Demonweb Pits'', conveniently titled... ''Queen of the Demonweb Pits''.

	Smarting like crazy over her absolutely humiliating defeat in ''[[D1-2-3: Drow Trilogy#Novelization\| Descent Into the Depths of the Earth]]'', and over all the other demon lords passive-aggressively making fun of how stupid her losing because the protagonists tricked her into getting drunk in the climax of the novel really was, Lolth is out for blood. She gathers all her forces across every world in the multiverse to prepare for a mass invasion of [[Greyhawk\| Oerth]], gets her decimated drow followers to set up planar portals and find her a vampiric pool, digs up the corpse of the Justicar's old teacher/rival to turn into an overpowered unique undead creature, restores Escalla's scheming sister to her full power, and then promptly kits them both out for bear, pumping the former full of swamp troll blood so he'll regenerate and giving him a vampiric super-weapon, and the latter a shitload of chained wretch henchmen and access to said vampiric pool, so that they can serve as minibosses.		Smarting like crazy over her absolutely humiliating defeat in ''[[D1-2-3: Drow Trilogy#Novelization\| Descent Into the Depths of the Earth]]'', and over all the other demon lords passive-aggressively making fun of how stupid her losing because the protagonists tricked her into getting drunk in the climax of the novel really was, Lolth is out for blood. She gathers all her forces across every world in the multiverse to prepare for a mass invasion of [[Greyhawk\| Oerth]], gets her decimated drow followers to set up planar portals and find her a vampiric pool, digs up the corpse of the Justicar's old teacher/rival to turn into an overpowered unique undead creature, restores Escalla's scheming sister to her full power, and then promptly kits them both out for bear, pumping the former full of swamp troll blood so he'll regenerate and giving him a vampiric super-weapon, and the latter a shitload of chained wretch henchmen and access to said vampiric pool, so that they can serve as minibosses.

1d4chan>Zimriel at 21:08, 6 July 2021

2021-07-06T21:08:39Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:08, 6 July 2021
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	The party could just walk off the pavement to skip all that, to a "lower" pathway but... they're interlocking. That party might end up back in a higher pathway. And the pathways all look the same.		The party could just walk off the pavement to skip all that, to a "lower" pathway but... they're interlocking. That party might end up back in a higher pathway. And the pathways all look the same.

	And not all the doors lead to teleportation. Gygax used the first pathways of this 'web to bring in, arbitrarily, what Gygax loved best: traps and tricks to frustrate players into violent [[rage]]. We'll have to call out the Magnetic Chamber. One wall is a yuuge mirror which, in fact, is a "lodestone". So if anyone is wearing any iron (or, we suppose, nickel or cobalt) - that iron is getting yanked into immobility. And then you get swarmed by thirty [[bugbear]]s with, you guessed it, wooden weapons. On the "plus" side, these rooms are the only way to tell Pathway One from Pathway Two or Three - if you've been to that room before, you know you've been on that road before. "A maze of twisty passages, all alike."		And not all the doors lead to teleportation. Gygax used the first pathways of this 'web to bring in, arbitrarily, what Gygax loved best: traps and tricks to frustrate players into violent [[rage]]. We'll have to call out the Magnetic Chamber. One wall is a yuuge mirror which, in fact, is a "lodestone". So if anyone is wearing any iron (or, we suppose, nickel or cobalt) - that iron is getting yanked into immobility. And then you get swarmed by thirty [[bugbear]]s with, you guessed it, wooden weapons. On the "plus" side, these rooms are the only way to tell Pathway One from Pathway Two or Three - if you've been to that room before, you know you've been on that road before. "[[Zork\|A maze of twisty passages, all alike.]]"

	Once on that fourth and last pathway you know you're getting somewhere. The doors on this one connect to whole new worlds, or maybe planes, in the Prime Material. Here the party learns that Lolth has schemes on many worlds, some of which schemes have basically won. Among the planes is Caer Sidi from "Three Hearts and Three Lions", and a pink ocean which will appear again in 2e classic [[Die, Vecna, Die!]]. One standout is the Nightworld of Vlad Tolenkov, which is exactly what it sounds like, long preceding [[Ravenloft]].		Once on that fourth and last pathway you know you're getting somewhere. The doors on this one connect to whole new worlds, or maybe planes, in the Prime Material. Here the party learns that Lolth has schemes on many worlds, some of which schemes have basically won. Among the planes is Caer Sidi from "Three Hearts and Three Lions", and a pink ocean which will appear again in 2e classic [[Die, Vecna, Die!]]. One standout is the Nightworld of Vlad Tolenkov, which is exactly what it sounds like, long preceding [[Ravenloft]].

1d4chan>Zimriel at 20:06, 6 July 2021

2021-07-06T20:06:40Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:06, 6 July 2021
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	The theme of this module is "let's look at what's behind [[Monty Hall\|DOOR NUMBER FOUR]]!". A whole ''school'' of red herrings await the party down here.		The theme of this module is "let's look at what's behind [[Monty Hall\|DOOR NUMBER FOUR]]!". A whole ''school'' of red herrings await the party down here.

	This module's Demonweb is three interlocking Moebius-style strips of pavement, in a plane where geometry itself is not on our side. The pavement is made of the damned; they carve tunnels in the Elder Chaos. The party needs to get under those ~~strips~~ to the fourth ~~layer~~. The top three connect to interdimensional chambers, like rooms in a dungeon. Some of them are teleportation rooms which are, of course, guarded; that's where the module directs the PCs.		This module's Demonweb is three interlocking Moebius-style strips of pavement (Q1 calls them "pathways", sometimes "level"), in a plane where geometry itself is not on our side. The pavement is made of the damned; they carve tunnels in the Elder Chaos. The party needs to get under those pathways to the fourth pathway. The top three connect to interdimensional chambers, like rooms in a dungeon. Some of them are teleportation rooms which are, of course, guarded; that's where the module directs the PCs.

	The party could just walk off the pavement to skip all that, to a "lower" ~~level~~ but... they're interlocking. That party might end up back in a higher ~~level~~.		The party could just walk off the pavement to skip all that, to a "lower" pathway but... they're interlocking. That party might end up back in a higher pathway. And the pathways all look the same.

	And not all the doors lead to teleportation. Gygax used the first ~~layers~~ of ~~the~~ 'web to bring in, arbitrarily, what Gygax loved best: traps and tricks to frustrate players into violent [[rage]]. We'll have to call out the Magnetic Chamber. One wall is a yuuge mirror which, in fact, is a "lodestone". So if anyone is wearing any iron (or, we suppose, nickel or cobalt) - that iron is getting yanked into immobility. And then you get swarmed by thirty [[bugbear]]s with, you guessed it, wooden weapons.		And not all the doors lead to teleportation. Gygax used the first pathways of this 'web to bring in, arbitrarily, what Gygax loved best: traps and tricks to frustrate players into violent [[rage]]. We'll have to call out the Magnetic Chamber. One wall is a yuuge mirror which, in fact, is a "lodestone". So if anyone is wearing any iron (or, we suppose, nickel or cobalt) - that iron is getting yanked into immobility. And then you get swarmed by thirty [[bugbear]]s with, you guessed it, wooden weapons. On the "plus" side, these rooms are the only way to tell Pathway One from Pathway Two or Three - if you've been to that room before, you know you've been on that road before. "A maze of twisty passages, all alike."

	~~The~~ fourth and last ~~layer connects~~ to whole new worlds, or maybe planes, in the Prime Material. Here the party learns that Lolth has schemes on many worlds, some of which schemes have basically won. Among the planes is Caer Sidi from "Three Hearts and Three Lions", and a pink ocean which will appear again in 2e classic [[Die, Vecna, Die!]]. One standout is the Nightworld of Vlad Tolenkov, which is exactly what it sounds like, long preceding [[Ravenloft]].		Once on that fourth and last pathway you know you're getting somewhere. The doors on this one connect to whole new worlds, or maybe planes, in the Prime Material. Here the party learns that Lolth has schemes on many worlds, some of which schemes have basically won. Among the planes is Caer Sidi from "Three Hearts and Three Lions", and a pink ocean which will appear again in 2e classic [[Die, Vecna, Die!]]. One standout is the Nightworld of Vlad Tolenkov, which is exactly what it sounds like, long preceding [[Ravenloft]].

	The module features page after page of how this chaotic and evil plane affects magic, making the template for the [[Manual of the Planes]] special-rules. We'll see such rules in ''[[Planescape]]'', ''[[Beyond Countless Doorways]]'' and whatever [[Mongoose Publishing]] was up to. ''BCD'' incidentally owns Q1's style of game-show design, in The Maze.		The module features page after page of how this chaotic and evil plane affects magic, making the template for the [[Manual of the Planes]] special-rules. We'll see such rules in ''[[Planescape]]'', ''[[Beyond Countless Doorways]]'' and whatever [[Mongoose Publishing]] was up to. ''BCD'' incidentally owns Q1's style of game-show design, in The Maze.